157 Amy Baglan: How To Up-level Your Love Life In 2018 w/ the CEO of MeetMindful

In relationship with somebody else. They're able to hold up the mirror to ourselves and what's really going on. It is such a almost like a trigger happy fast food style atmosphere. There's almost too many options and too much choice and I think has taught us and unfortunately is teaching the younger generations that this is all there is to think of people as disposable and have the quickest, most surface interaction that you can to rack up quantity over quality. If you can bring yourself to be present in the experience of dating and in the experience of connecting with one another through on this topic, a dating app that inherently becomes a different experience.

That's Amy Baglin, CEO of Meet Mindful and this is episode 157 of Wellness Force Radio. What's up my friend? It's your host, Josh Trent. Welcome back to another episode for your weekly access to global experts in all things wellness as we discover the physical and emotional intelligence we need to live life well. Happy New Year, my friend. Welcome back to the podcast. I know you're feeling the excitement buzzing around what's possible in 2018 and I'm here to tell you anything, anything is possible this year, including up leveling your love life, your dating life. We're talking about this with the CEO of Meet Mindful, Amy Baglin. What is really about mindfulness and dating? What's that connection? We talk a lot about this on the show. We add mindfulness to dating and relationships and love. The metaphor is that Whole Foods and Whole Foods Markets, even yoga and juices years ago were considered to be fringe trends. But we've now experienced a tipping point in 2018. The mass adoption of these mindfulness practices have now been accepted as an integral part of everyone's lives. Mindfulness and dating and relationships is really no different. So instead of immediately focusing on getting in shape and getting a six pack and having spray tanned abs like everyone else does in the fitness industry right now pushing these bullshit trends at this time of year, we're taking a deep breath and doing the opposite where a bigger question arises to kick off our new year. What if we spent more time becoming emotionally fit? What would that look like? Well, in this podcast we're diving deep into that question, exploring the true nature of of masculine feminine balance. In addition to understanding how relationships can be a catalyst for mindfulness. I know that when I've been in relationships I've learned the absolute most about myself. I'm sure you can relate. And before we speak to the CEO of Meet Mindful, we're taking our breath break Maybe it's the first time you've taken a deep breath all day long. So here is your breath break. And while you breathe, I'd like to thank our show sponsor. Give a huge shout out to Organifi who have been incredibly supportive of Wellness Force Radio last year. And in this year we're looking forward to continuing this narrative around self care and self love. And it starts with the nutrients and micronutrients we consume every day. So we're setting up our environment to win. That is why I have moved away from juicing raw veggies and fruits. Because I realized when I look back on last year, my behaviors using powders were the way to go. It's actually the way that I can set up my environment to win my week to win. There is such a big focus in our lives right now in this month for health and wellness, but we get to do that every day, especially today. Allow yourself to set up your home and work environment for you to win. To make it easier for yourself, use the powder. Instead of cutting up the veggies and having that be a time consuming process. Just hop over to organifyshop.com and because you're a part of our crew here at Wellness force, you get 20% off the entire website, including the red juice and the green juice and the proteins and the gold organifi gold which is becoming my new favorite. Set up your day to win well with micronutrients, head over to Organifyshop.com, enter code WellnessForce to save 20% off at checkout. All right, for the first episode of the year, we're talking about how to up level our dating and love lives. Why any relationship with someone else is truly one of the fastest ways to be a mirror of learning for us so we can grow. Why Amy founded Meet Mindful and why it's so different when we look at the way other dating apps have people mindlessly swiping while they're in line. At Sprouts I know cause I've done that before. We'll also talk about why Amy studied behavioral psychology and behavior change to help formulate an authentic channel for men and women to connect and how you can listen to your body, not just your mind, to tell you what man or woman or man or man or woman or woman feels and is the best relationship for you. And when it comes to relationships, as Amy says, if we can learn how to be alone, become the person that we want to fall in love with, then we'll get there. It feels so much better to be fulfilled, whole and complete on our own, rather than relying on someone else to do that for us. Okay, let's tune in with Amy Baglin. Amy Baglin is the founder of Meet Mindful, an online dating site where mindful singles connect with one another to find true love. Meet Mindful is a relationships company that inspires people to make meaningful connections every day. They are not only a dating app, but a meeting ground for people who want to live their happiest, healthiest lives and connect with others who feel the same. Amy created a business for people who value healthy living and yoga meditation, but really authentic connections. And she believes relationships are the fastest way to personal growth. Amy, welcome to the show.

Josh, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Well, I am totally in alignment with you. I believe that relationships are the fastest way to personal growth. I've received many, many gifts from many relationships. Why do you think this is true? Why do you think that relationships are the fastest way for us to grow?

You know, I think that. And this isn't just romantic relationships, although this is a place where I believe it is strongest. I mean, in relationship with somebody else, they're able to hold up the mirror to ourselves and what's really going on. If we're not actually receiving the reactions and the questions and the inspiration and potentially the triggers from other people, then there's no good way for us to get a reflection of what's going on when we're communicating with other people. So I think just that person holding up that mirror for us to discover who we truly are and patterns that we might want to break and other things that we want to be focusing on, becoming more of is the best way to do that.

I have been so excited to have this conversation with you because I live here kind of in the quasi spiritual capital of Southern California here in Encinitas. I'm sure you've been right.

It's been like four or five years since I've been to San Diego. I went to visit one of our very first advisors and a dear friend of mine, Arielle Ford, who. Who lives in La Jolla. So that's the last time it came out.

There is such a energy here of exploration in relationships and personal development. When I look at your work and when I see really the impact, this ripple that you're creating, not just in the dating world, but like you said, this is the fastest way to personal growth. I mean, and I look at me mindful, it's much more than a dating app. You were A kid. And at an early age you actually said that, you know, mindfulness, authenticity, it was big for you. Then you were upset when people around you weren't being authent. Why was this such a big deal for you at such an early age?

My parents luckily still live in the house that I grew up in. And so I was in my old bedroom and I looked at old journals and stuff and I saw that there was all this like you just mentioned concern around authenticity and people being you know, at the time, fake. Right. That's what 10 year olds say. And it all came back to me that it was so important that people were not superficial and that people were more authentic. I don't know why, I don't know what it is, what it was for that 10 year old version of me that cared so much. I just know that I was really irritated when I saw people not really showing up fully authentic. I think now in retrospect I've always had a desire for people to show up in a way that feels real and doesn't feel like they're putting on a front. Right. Or just staying on the surface. And I think one of the reasons it's so important to me is because I. And you know, this is definitely getting a little bit deeper into the psychology behind this but I think that I feel most comfortable and most connected and like I'm connecting to my, my true self and therefore others true selves. When people are showing up authentically and connecting in that way, it's probably disappointing to my soul on a level, on that level if I'm not getting that. So that's probably what drove it.

Yeah. This journey you've had, I think it's a mirror of mine. When I was a kid I was always upset how people treated one another and you know, it bothered me when I would look around and there'd be people disrespecting each other and hurting each other. And I think honestly if I'm being real with you, I still feel that way. I think about my family construct. Yours was not very open emotionally. You've talked about on different shows that you know, it wasn't exactly a heart centered shoulder to shoulder connection 247 with your parents. How did that shape you Amy, in developing Meet mindful.

Don't get me wrong, I love my family and they're amazing people. They weren't taught to be open and forthcoming and truly connected to what's going on for them emotionally. And so of course it's something that's been passed down and I Don't know why it's something that I somehow, like, rebelled against, because I guess I wanted more. And so I certainly had a rebellious stage. And I think many of us did. And I think that's honestly what drives many of us to go towards these lives of intention and health and wellness and spirituality, because those previous patterns didn't work for us. And so I think that often a lot of people have that story can resonate and how that shaped Meet mindful. I mean, my goodness, there's so many steps in between that, right? I was living in New York City. I was working at a startup that was growing like crazy, and I was the first employee there. I was VP of this company when I was, you know, probably. I think I was 24.

You were a VP at 24? No pressure.

I just thought it was cool. I was like, this is great. Let's have a cocktail. Let's celebrate. I would always been in small companies, and they weren't even called startups back then. They were just new companies and doing alternative things. From my freshman year of college internship, that's what I was working in. It just felt natural to me to join a company that had no real product yet and had only a few paying customers and they needed someone to sell and grow it. And I was like, sure, I'll do that. So it only made sense to me that that's what happened, because I think in my first startup internship in freshman year, I loved. Just got, like, totally enamored with building something from nothing. And there's something like, I did an internship at NBC. I was working, you know, in this giant, beautiful building, and it was owned by ge, and, like, I would have to wear a suit, got a DKNY pantsuit in college and wore heels and, like, you know, played the professional.

Did you have to wear the suit with the shoulder pads on it?

No, no. I was, like, more fashion forward than that. Right? But, like, it was so big that in this internship, I would be in this building, and when there was something wrong with my computer, they would go, no joke. Oh, just call India. And I was like, what? Just call India. Just pick up the phone and dial H E L P and somebody in India will pick up and help you. And I was like, what is this? Like, this is a whole other world of, like, corporation. And it terrified me. Like, I did not want to have any part of being in a giant company where I felt like a cog in a wheel and, you know, bless people's heart who do that. Like, that's great. And it wasn't right for me. So I love creating something from nothing. And that, I think, is the beginning of what drove me to this crazy world of entrepreneurship.

But that's just one part of it, because there's another big piece of you that's tapped into health. We explore on the show so much about physical intelligence and with your training that you got at iin, the Institute of Integrative Nutrition. Tell us about that. What drew you to that?

So there's a little bit of backstory to that, and I'd love to share. So I'm. I'm, you know, VP of the company. I'm, like, running this thing. I'm in New York City. I'm 26 years old, and funny enough, every street, every block I lived on in New York had a church on it. Like, whether it was the Lower east side or East Village or the Upper west side, there was always a church on my street. And I remember thinking that was kind of strange. And I had been. I grew up going to church, and I didn't. I hadn't done it for years. And I remember feeling a pull to want to go to church. And I was like, in my head, I thought, that's very strange. Why do I want this? And along the same time, I was training for a triathlon, I had a girlfriend who took me to that I was training with, who took me to a Sunday night free yoga class at Lululemon. And I was laying there in my first full yoga class in Shavasana. And I remember having this overwhelming feeling of absolute stillness and peace and calm. And I had this aha moment where I was laying there thinking, oh, this is what I was searching. This is what I'm looking for with this whole I want to go back to church business. It's this, like, whatever connection is going on for me right now. And it was so unfamiliar and new to me at the time, but it was amazing. That was what started everything for me. I started going to yoga five, six days a week, studying with my teacher, Marcos Roja. Marco taught me how to meditate. And we started with just basic breath meditation. And I was hooked. I was like, this is. All of these practices are completely changing my life. And there were a lot of things in my life that I wasn't happy and satisfied with. And it helped me gather the courage and the knowledge that I could, you know, create my own changes that I wanted to see in my life. And it gave me the tools, it gave me the confidence, it gave me the strength, both physically and mentally and that is what drove me ultimately to go to IIN because I was really inspired by a book that the founder Joshua had written all about living and eating and just having a lifestyle that was fully integrated, mind, body, soul. And so that's one way to put what the Institute for Integrative Nutrition teaches people. And they also give you a kind of logistical training on how to become a holistic health coach. And I knew that I didn't want to be a holistic health coach. I knew I didn't want to do like one on one coaching with people. But I was super inspired to go through the content of the program, try on the changes and try on the different theories in my own life and in my own diet and lifestyle and, and see what worked for me. And then I started to have all this inspiring ideas around, like what to do with this. Because everybody at IIN ends up doing something different. Some people do it just for their own personal practice and their own personal knowledge and health. Other people do it for coaching that they want to become a coach, other people want to write a book, et cetera. I clearly remember having this inspiration one day to create a social network that was focused on delivering like recipes and content and exercise ideas and like inspiring writings to other people on the network. Like if somebody was super into Ayurveda, they could share this stuff with the people that were on the site and help inspire them. And mind you, this is like 2010. Like this is only Facebook really existed then.

This is when the dating apps still have kind of a negative context. I mean, people were scared in 2010 of online dating apps or just anything. I mean, Facebook was so new.

Yeah. I mean any sort of online connection was still a little sketchy. And for sure the dating options were like, people were afraid. They wanted to lie about it. Right. That they were on these sites. And so I remember I was on match.com a little bit in my last year in New York and I was like, this is freaky. Like I can't actually tell who I would vibe with. Like looking at these profiles, I don't know how to search for that. I ended up quitting that job and buying a one way ticket to India and traveling for a year. I traveled and I studied with all these amazing teachers and I ended up doing a lot of partner yoga and Thai yoga massage trainings. And when I moved to Denver, I started a events company within my first month of moving here called Yoga Dates and Yoga Dates did yoga events for singles. And the whole premise was we always, you know, people who go to yoga studios. They sit in the studio silently waiting for the teacher to come. And then no one talks to each other. And then after class no one talks to each other and it's like, so it was so weird to me because I moved here, I knew one person and I was going to all these classes and no one was interacting. And I was like, this is so weird. I just spent a year around a bunch of amazing people and like minded communities as I was traveling through the world and went to yoga festivals and I went to all these different conferences and trainings and it was all about people connecting and all about like minded community. And I know they're here, they're just not talking and there's no like permission, right? And so I started yoga dates to give people permission to meet each other and talk in a studio in a place where they know that they're sharing this passion. And it was from my experience running those events and we would do like yoga, speed dating or vinyasa and vino and we would have community events and movie screenings. And it was through that feedback from my customers and what I saw happening on a weekly basis that drove me to start me mindful.

And I think the contrast is that most people are used to right now, let's be honest. Swipe right Tinder. There's all these apps out there that are really based on immediate gratification. This is what I believe is kind of furthering the decay of real human connection. I mean, I'm not gonna sit up here and talk shit about these other apps, but let's be real, like it's the only going surface deep here. It's like a foot deep with Meet Mindful with this mindfulness component. Actually recently is perfect timing. This is the first week of the year. Most people, Amy, they're focused on, you know, their physical body and training and going to the gym. But deep inside, I mean, why are we actually even doing that in the first place? If we want to show up physically well and fit and healthy, it's really because we want to show up powerfully either in the relationship with ourselves or in the relationship with the other person. Well and good. Just published an article with you where you had five powerful tips and there's a great quote here. What is it about adding mindfulness to the mix that makes meat mindful? The real deal? And you replied, well, quite frankly, it works in the same way. Things like whole food diets and yoga were once fringe trends. We've experienced the tipping point where enough people have accepted these Things as an integral part of their lives. Mindfulness is no different. I'd love for you to share a little bit more about that, how that came through you, what you meant by that.

So one of the things that I think is really sad about what's happening and unfortunate about what's happening right now in society in general, but specifically in the dating apps and dating services is out there, like you just mentioned, is it is such a, almost like a trigger happy, fast food style atmosphere where there's almost too many options and too much choice. And it I think has taught us and unfortunately is teaching the younger generations that this is all there is to think of people as disposable and have the like, quickest, most surface interaction that you can to rack up quantity over quality. And I think one of the reasons that mindfulness helps to combat that and give people a better option is that by definition mindfulness is being present with what is happening right now in this moment. And if you can bring yourself to be present in the experience of dating and in the experience of connecting with one another through, you know, on this topic of dating app, that inherently becomes a different experience because I'm no longer going as fast as I can. I'm no longer just looking at a picture and going yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. I'm actually taking the time to be present to what I'm seeing, taking somebody in, looking for similarities that are on a deeper, you know, go below the surface where I could find a real meaningful connection point with somebody and giving them the benefit of the doubt that we would if we were living a slower paced life, meeting somebody and having the time to really take them in. You know, I'm not going to lie and say that physical attraction and chemistry doesn't matter. It absolutely does. I mean there's like biological reasons that that's there. And I also think that a huge piece of chemistry that's lost in just looking at photos is how this person shows up in the world. And if we can't get to clues and signs of how that person shows up in the world and what makes them tick and you know, are they funny, are they, you know, intellectual, like, like what is this person like? And about that takes away from being able to gauge some potential chemistry as well. So I think, you know, back to the quote that you read, mindfulness helps to, to create a deeper, more meaningful, enriching, authentic experience for people. To the point about this becoming a large trend in society. It's because it works and because people have found value and It's. And it doesn't have to be like a woo woo, ethereal thing. Right. And that's fine if it is too. But for the 90% of people out there who cringe at the thought of, like, you know, energy in the universe and things being, like, really ethereal and they need it to be grounded.

Yes. Their aura is blue and purple. Right. This is what turns people off to that kind of language.

It is. And the truth is that mindfulness practices and there's so many other things that have been studied from it in a scientific way. And science backs this stuff at this point, so it's gone to the point where it's no longer that woo woo, like, crazy sounding French stuff, but it's stuff that we know of.

Yes. And I want to dig in way deeper with you on this too, Amy. We had a question from the Wellness Force community from Brianna. She said, amy, how do I tell if I can trust a guy on a dating app?

That's a great question, Brianna. I think it would be difficult to know if you can trust somebody right off the bat. Like, looking at their profile, I think that there's flags that would show that that may not be a trustworthy person. And one of those flags to me is like, sexual innuendos right off the bat. For anybody that's looking for. That says that they're looking for something serious and real and meaningful. They would not be leading with sexual behavior. That doesn't mean that you can't be flirtatious and fun and suggestive. But if there's nothing beyond that that would cause me to distrust somebody.

So if he has a bathroom selfie and he's flexing, it's probably not starting off the right foot.

I mean, my God, like, I can't handle the bathroom selfie. Like, don't do that. There's gotta be a better way, right? If somebody. Yeah, that's a great point, Josh. Like, if somebody's number one thing they're leading with is like, look at my body. I'm sorry, I don't think that. Okay, I'm gonna go on a limb here and be judgmental, but I'm not gathering that they value that much else about themselves. And if they're not gonna value that much else about themselves, then I certainly don't think they're gonna value that much else about me.

Oh, this is such a good point. Because so what we're talking about here is really being mindful. And another term could be conscious relating and dating in this. God, this overly connected digital world. Where it's so filled with an immediate gratification source. You know, we look at design. We've interviewed Nir Eyal on the podcast before.

I love Nir's stuff.

Isn't he fantastic? He's so intelligent. We'll make sure to link this in the show notes. And he talked about with habit forming products, it's really the variable reward that drives human behavior. You know, the reason why all these companies make these apps so addictive is because they know if they have a variable reward in play, then we're going to use the app more and more. And when I look at Meet Mindful, a really great app gives the user something where they can actually leave the app. And that's what I see with Meet Mindful. Can you talk about variable rewards on Meet Mindful and how actually the goal is to get people off the app because that way they're in a conscious, committed, loving relationship.

Josh, I really wanted to say one more thing about Briana's question first.

Please go for it. Yes.

So another thing that I tend to look for when I'm trying to decide if I can truly trust somebody, you know, we hear this often, it's almost cliche at this point, but I think it's worth mentioning is that it's not what somebody says, it's what they do. And so if somebody says that they're looking for XYZ or that this, you know, this thing's really important to them, but then their behavior suggests differently. I always urge people to look at the behavior and not the words that we've been, you know, hearing or reading. I think that's really important because the way people show up and the things that they do and the way that they treat you are not coming through a filter of words. And so I would pay a lot of attention to that. And you can see that from, you know, how somebody treats you on a date. You can see that from how somebody is in integrity with if they say they're gonna do something and then they don't like, that's the behavior that I would say to look out for in the beginning.

Suffice to say, if we don't feel right in our body, then it's probably not gonna be right through an app. I mean, the way that we feel, that's a big deal. You talked about this actually in your post where dropping into your body can be a great barometer for if a connection is valid or not. Talk about that a little bit and then we'll dig into Nir's work And the variable reward.

Yeah. You know, I think that our bodies. And this is something that I'm really passionate about deepening into myself from a practice standpoint. You know, our bodies really carry everything that we're thinking and feeling about ourselves and others. When our minds take over and we try to logic ourselves out of something, our bodies might do something completely different. And this is why muscle testing is such a powerful practice for people and a tool that people use to figure out what their body really wants. If I was on a date and I'm trying to decide if I'm, you know, am I enjoying this? Like, all I have to do is really think about what's going on physically for me. You know, am I leaning forward? Am I slumped backwards? You know, am I. Am I leaned in and engaged? Or just kind of like bored and waiting for what's next? Is my face relaxed? Is my body relaxed? Is my posture relaxed? Or am I trying to put on, you know, is there some stress and tension in different places? Because I'm trying too hard to feel like I'm having a good time or to look like I'm having a good time? And these are all things that if we can become more present to what's going on physically, our body has a lot to tell us about how we're feeling.

And in the moment, we have these small facial muscles. We've talked about this with Besser van der Kolk's work. Johnny Blackburn, who talked in depth about, when we meet someone, the tiny muscles in their face actually cue us to the vagus nerve immediately if that person can be trusted. So I love that you mentioned that. It's like the face is such an indicator of if someone's really having a good time or not, if it feels good in their body. Have you experienced this personally, where you look at someone's face and you're like, you know, I can kind of tell that they're not having a good time. Or maybe in yourself.

Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, I can feel it in my face. Sometimes if I'm thinking something and I'm like, oh, shoot. I think this is showing, and I don't want it to, but I'm such an open book about stuff that, you know, oh, well, I assume that they picked up on it. And then the key there is just to be in integrity and speak what's going on for you as much as you can instead of trying to hide it. You know, I absolutely notice this in other people, and I think this is why I think I probably have Been pretty sensitive to this my whole life, which is probably tying back to that whole authenticity conversation that if I can tell that someone's not being authentic, it's really, you know, it's frustrating because I want it to be like, I can see that it's not there. So if you can just let all that shit go and show me what's really going on, we can drop in a little bit more and I can really be present with you.

Isn't that what we all want, Amy? Everybody just wants to get to the truth as quickly as possible, but there's all these old stories and beliefs and just roadblocks that are stored. And the real work, this healing work, we are gonna talk about variable reward, but I love where the conversation's going when we look at the healing work. You know, to show up authentically, it takes an inventory. It takes years, sometimes for people, decades. It's not like it happens overnight. You know, as a CEO, somebody who's in the doing, and then also as a mindfulness person who's in the being. That must be really difficult for you to do both of those things and lead a company. What kind of work have you done that you think has made you empowered and strong to be able to do both of those?

One of the things that I am really excited about and grateful for coming into my life in the past year is an organization called Conscious Leadership Group. And a mentor of mine that we work with in Boulder named Sue Heilbronner is the Conscious Leadership Group facilitator here in Denver, Boulder. Myself and my. One of my executive team members went to Conscious Leadership Camp over the summer, which is a three day, immersive, kind of like day camp for adults to drop into this work. And we did this for three days in July and we walked away and we were like, oh my God, this work is. It's killer. It's like the most accessible way of bringing mindfulness and intentionality and authentic communication into the workplace. And of course, there's personal benefits to it too. And so we actually ended up sending our entire team to Conscious Leadership Camp the next time it happened in the fall. And it's going to be. It is now part of and will continue to be part of the onboarding process for any new team members here at the company. There's 15 different commitments to Conscious Leadership. A few of the ones that come to mind in regards to your question are things like feel your feelings and actually have a safe space to talk about that in the company. And so one of the things that we do here is we invite people to actually say what they're feeling, like what the emotion is that they're feeling when we talk about stuff. Because if we can do that, it helps us immediately build compassion for who we're talking to and understand what their world is and also understand what's behind it for them. Because when people are, like, in conflict or butting heads about something. One of my great mentors and advisors and friend and investor Eben Pagan says whenever two people are super passionate and fighting about something, it's because both of them are taking a stand for something that they feel is sacred.

Yes.

We operate from that place here. And so we really try to make sure that everybody is aware of and communicating what they're feeling, even if it doesn't feel good to hear it, because, you know, that's just making it a safe, cushy environment for everybody. And that doesn't really, you know, create progress. Right. In innovation, in moving forward all the time.

So double your dating. This is a reason why you guys came together. How did that happen?

Eben and I met through my advisor that I mentioned earlier, Ariel Ford. I got to know Eben and his amazing wife, Annie. Annie Lala. She's a conscious relationship coach. And the two of them have been in my life for the past three years. We met at Success Summit 3.0 in Boulder and then started talking. And this is when Meet Mindful was very early on, and we were looking for awesome angel investors who could also help us as an advisor. And Eben and I developed a relationship and he's amazed. Like, he's got his background in dating, as you mentioned, double your dating and online marketing is his. His super area of genius.

He is the man.

He is totally the man in that regard and many others. So he had a specific skill set that would be very useful to us, especially early on. And also, Eben's just brilliant. He's a genius. And he's an amazing tactical mentor in terms of what to do next, especially as we were very early stage. But he's also an incredible mentor around, like, how to handle problems, how to handle things that are coming up. He's the guy I turn to when I'm really scared and I don't know what to do. I have cried to Eben so many times, and he just gives me a great perspective. And one of the things I love most about Eben is he's obsessed with learning. Like, he just wants to learn as much as he possibly can and then help others do the same thing. And so I've watched him evolve over the past few years into different projects that he's really interested in and gotten to kind of see that from the sidelines. It's been very cool. And then Annie has been an amazing force in my life that has told me some things I will never forget in terms of relationships and dating. And, you know, I'll just name a few of them. I remember calling her when I was in a relationship that ended about a year ago, and I was calling her when we were having a really tough time, and I was crying, and I was like, annie, like, it's just so much work. Like, why does it have to be so much work? You know, it's just. I'm like, I'm tired. And she said, I'll never forget this. She said, amy, it's always going to be work. There's always going to be work to do. It's up to you to decide who you want to do it with. And I was like, like, mind blown. That was amazing, because it's true. And, you know, you hear about, like, couples who fight well versus couples who don't. Like, you gotta learn how to be in conflict together. And if doing that work and being in conflict and having the ugly stuff happen just ends up like a disaster every single time. Like, that tells you something.

Amy, just so many things I want to ask you. Let me just unpack that a little bit, because that was a lot. You talked about mentorship, you talked about the gifts you've received, and, you know, just that powerful statement of, like, who do you want to do this work with? I think a lot of times for singles, it can be so easy to be like, you know, if I'm doing my work and if I'm making myself grow and if I'm doing the right workshops and if I'm taking care of my health and wealth and everything else, well, then I'll meet somebody along the path that is doing the same thing. And I think it doesn't always act out that cut and dry. I think sometimes a man or a woman or a woman and a woman, man and man, they can come into one another's life to actually lift each other up and to give one another that space, that growth, that power to do the work together. And it flies in the face of just, you know, self empowerment. I'd love for us to dive into that and then we'll talk about the variable reward.

Okay, cool. You're, like, putting the variable reward carrot in front of me. It's really funny. I like it. So what's the question there?

So specific question. What does it mean when someone comes into our life and how do we grow when they do that compared to doing our inner work alone?

One of the things that I've really gotten to learn over the past few years, specifically, is how we choose people who trigger us in the deepest ways. And it's like the biggest opportunity for learning ever. When these people come into our lives, especially romantically, you know, we have an opportunity to heal some deep, deep stuff that has persisted for sometimes decades. And that's a huge calling. I mean, that is a huge offering to heal and to uplevel how we show up as human beings. And it is not pretty, it is not easy stuff, but the benefits of that are huge. So one of the things that I'm really passionate about is actually taking this work that we do on a personal basis. You rattled off all of it. Holistic health and diets and the wellness programs and the meditation and conscious living, all this stuff. Often we just do that for ourselves personally. And I've always been curious about that. You know that Einstein quote that the definition of insanity is trying to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Yes, I've been there.

I think that's what we do in relationships and in dating and in the deep connections and relationships that we have. And I've always been fascinated ever since starting Meet Mindful. Why is it that here's this crowd of people who are, like, super into doing this personal work, but oftentimes there's not enough opportunity or willingness to do that in interpersonal relationships and in sometimes, you know, what we're talking about, the most important relationships is the ones that are our primary attachment relationships, the ones with our romantic partner. If we. If we expect to not do any work there, we're just going to probably have the same patterns repeat themselves over and over. And so it takes. It's not pretty to break those patterns and to uplevel and heal some of that stuff. But having the right partner in place to help you do that can get you there.

I think about my past relationship to two and a half years. I grew the absolute most. It's a big part of actually why we're here on this podcast. Her name was Amy. So I'm thinking about the way that we all grow, but yet we're all kind of doing our best alone. And then we look at dating, the contrast of digital connection and understanding that we are kind of half beast, half spirit. You know, we use these dating apps, and there is this component of variable reward that can either hook us for the right reason, or it can hook us just to sell us shoes and actually disconnect us. Tell us about variable reward now, because you are obviously a colleague of Nir Eyal's. How did you bake that into meet Mindful for the loving aspect, for the connection aspect.

That's a great question. I went to one of Nir's workshops at the Idate conference, which is an Internet dating conference, a few years ago, and I came back and met with my co founder who runs product, and I said, adam, this guy's work is amazing. This hooked model is so smart. So Adam went and did one of his workshops, and it's something that we talk about a lot. And the variable reward piece, the challenge for a business like ours is how do you do it in a way that's in integrity with why we're doing what we're doing in the first place, the values and the missions that we have and why our members come to us. Because like you said, it can be used for good, it can be used for bad, or for ulterior motives, like to sell more shoes. Right. Which I totally get roped into all the time. And so for us, the question has been how do we build something that still provides that reward but doesn't do it in a way that is shady or undermines the overall values that we hold as a business and as people running the business? And so one of the things that we like to do is give people a lot of send people notifications and let them know when they've been checked out, when somebody likes them. Like, actually let them know about what's going on. When other people are viewing their profiles and interacting prior to sending a message so they're getting some clues that they're, you know, the reward there is that they're getting action. Right. And that they're being noticed and that people are interested. And it doesn't have to. You don't have to just wait until two people have swiped. Right? Right. To find out that anything's going on. And we find that that is one of the biggest drivers of engagement actually for us is those notifications. And, you know, like, if it's too much, you can turn it off. And not everybody needs that, but it's. It sure is helpful for people, especially when they first join. You know, they want to know that people are noticing them. Right. So that's a big one that we use.

And I feel like with this reward piece, we do want eventually to get People off the app. Right. There's a success story that I've heard you talk about, but I'd love for you to share one. Maybe, you know, someone that's really gotten that deep connection, that committed, loving relationship from a Meet Mindful. Is there like a favorite story? You probably have so many, but is there one that comes top of mind?

Oh, my God, I have so many. But I'm going to tell one actually about somebody I mentioned earlier, my Conscious Leadership teacher and dear mentor and friend of mine, Sue Heilbronner. I went on a walk with her. Someone had introduced us and they said, Amy's starting a startup. Is. This was like four years ago and sue is a big mentor in town and now runs an investment fund. And they had us meet and sue and I went for a walk around the Boulder Creek and she was telling me, you know, a lot, like a lot of people did back in the day, like, why what I was doing might be really difficult and why it would be really hard to make it work. And just like warning me, you know, about going down this path and totally grateful that she did and other people did. And, you know, I get it. Like, it's not. It's not work for the weary, right?

Yes.

So sue has helped us. She was a mentor when we were in techstars and then she facilitated our annual planning day in July. And then she was single again after the Conscious Leadership Camp. She had just broken up with her boyfriend and I don't remember who reached out to who, but we ended up gifting her a free year on Meet Mindful for all the support that she's offered us over the year and wanting to be able to support her. A week passed and I remember her sharing with me that she'd gone on a date with somebody and that this guy happens to be somebody that I know who was a client of mine early on when I moved here. And he's a wonderful, wonderful man. On their first date, they played a game that they play often in Conscious Leadership Camp, which is if you really knew me. And it's a game to kind of allow people to playfully reveal some of their vulnerabilities and get to know one another at a much deeper level than you normally would in a kind of interview style. First date, right. And she said he blew her away. That, you know, they had this super deep conscious conversation, that he was really open, that he was a wonderful golfer and she loves golfing and he had tattoos, which was hot. And like, it was the coolest thing for me to hear that they'd started dating not only because I love sue, but I also love Tim and he's a great guy. I had nothing but great things to say about him. And that was back in August. And they have been going strong ever since. They're actually in one of our customer success videos that they created together and it's just really sweet to watch their relationship unfold. There's also a couple that met in. He lived in Lexington, Kentucky and she lived in Columbus, Ohio. And they met about, gosh, it was probably a year and a half ago. Meet mindful or maybe even two years ago. We didn't have a lot of people at all back then on the network and they met each other because they were within like, I don't know, 250 miles of each other or something. And they had just gotten, let me see if I get lucky and expanded their search radius. And Lexington and Columbus aren't super far. I think it's maybe like, I don't know, three hours, four hours. Someone on the show probably knows this better than I do. But they met and they fell deeply in love. They ended up getting engaged, moving in with one another, and they are our first meet. Mindful marriage and baby.

Oh, that is so fantastic.

It just goes to show that if you have an open mind and you're willing to look outside of your five mile like bubble that you live in, that there's great people everywhere.

Yes. And I love this success story. You know your article in yoga journal, five rules for mindful dating and relationship intention setting for the holidays. I'm just seeing number five here. Date with integrity. The worst thing that happens is ghosting, where the person just disappears. Whoosh. I've personally dealt with this and it's interesting because Chris asks from Wellness Force Community. I feel like on these dating apps I get ghosted. After deeper phone calls and text messages and a few dates, they literally disappear. And I feel like I'm being used for my male attention. Have you come across this? You know, people get what they want to get from the person they're dating, whether it's attention or to be felt or received or heard. And then as soon as they've gotten whatever they want, it's sayonara. Is this something you come across?

Isn't that sad? That makes me so sad. I mean, it's something that I don't think this behavior would be happening as nearly as much even five years ago because we weren't trained to have that, like I mentioned earlier, that kind of trigger happy, like fast food, way of connecting and communicating digitally, no doubt. And I think it's taught us that this behavior is okay, which is absolutely not true. You know, it's unfortunate it happens for women just as much as it happens to men. I think I see it all the time, and I see it all the time with friends of mine. It's not something that we hear about a lot at Meet Mindful, which is interesting. And I wonder if we could do more research around that, because we do hear that people have a high integrity and meaningful connections and conversations with people, even if they don't end up dating them. So I will go out on a limb and say that I don't think ghosting happens nearly as much on Meet Mindful, which is a wonderful thing in terms of how to deal with that. To Chris's question, it's really hard. Like, we never know what's going on for the other person. We never know. And I think that unfortunately, and this is how we're built as humans, so it's not a bad thing. But I think we need to be aware of it, that we make up stories all the time of what somebody's intentions are or what somebody was thinking when they did what they did. And I'll just play devil's advocate if I discover that in a phone call that some guy doesn't feel right for me and I realize I don't want to meet with him in person. But I am absolutely terrified of conflict and I'm afraid of looking bad and I'm afraid of somebody not liking me. It actually will feel more comfortable to ignore them than it will to say something that person may not be practiced in, like being vulnerable and having authentic communication skills. Right. And so I'm not saying it makes it okay or right. But I think on the flip side, like, that's often what's going on for people is they are so afraid of thinking they're going to make someone feel bad or like they don't know what to say. They don't know how to be vulnerable enough to say what they're feeling. And so they just don't. Which I can feel compassion for people when I think about it that way, but it doesn't make it right. You know, I found ways that work to tell people that it's not going to work for me. One of the things that I think is most important if you're not interested in somebody is to not give them reasons. Because whenever we give somebody reasons, it gives them a way to come back and try to change our mind with logic. Right. And so the best possible thing that one can do is just to say something along the lines of, it was really nice meeting you, or it was really nice talking to you. I'm not feeling like this is a fit, so I wish you the best of luck.

That is so scary for so many people, Amy. You know how much fear that brings in people, and you're right. I think that could be the number one reason why people don't really practice that conscious communication. But I want to challenge you on this because I feel like I can ask this question to you. I feel like this is going to be great for the audience to learn. Don't you think that there's also a caveat to ignoring and not dealing with the conflict? That is almost a way of emotional laziness. In other words, it's like not really telling somebody, even if they are skilled or not skilled, and. And conscious relating that you're not interested. Don't you think that grows the synapses in your emotional brain?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it flexes a muscle that not many people have ever used before. It gets easier every single time. And if you can do it from a place of love, like, if it's not right for me, it's not right for you, because I don't want you chasing somebody who's not into you. That would be a waste of energy on your part, and that would be unfair of me. So from a face of love, I can tell you that. And that absolutely flexes a muscle and builds it up.

So we're getting stronger here. I mean, this is not like going to the gym, but it is, in a way, because, gosh, I can't tell you how many people that. It's been so hard for me, Amy, to just speak my truth in a moment. But after I did it, I felt so much better. It was almost like a weight was lifted off my shoulder. So if you're listening and you're feeling this, like, it's okay to just go through that level of discomfort. We're not gonna have the courage up front. I think courage really happens once we've done it.

Yes. And I think once we've done it and we have that feeling of the weight being lifted, that's where the courage really grows, is like, oh, I didn't die. I actually experienced something better than what I was just feeling a moment ago. That gives me more courage and hope to do it again. I went on a date with. I went on a second date with a guy who the first date was, like, kind of Boring. But I thought he was.

What made it so boring.

Hmm. Well, this was actually the one where I think you read in the article that, like, my business partner was randomly at the cocktail lounge that I was meeting this guy at, and he saw me across the room, and he saw that my body language was, like, not into it. It's that guy. And so I don't know what it was. It was just dry. It felt dry and unexciting. And I'm, like, such an excitable person that I was like, maybe. I don't know what I thought. I was just like, maybe just let me just give this a second chance. And I was already going to be in Boulder, and, like, whatever. I agreed to go to dinner. And so we had dinner. It was, like, a quick, kind of casual dinner. And then we were going to go play games somewhere afterwards. That was the plan. And I. After dinner, I was, like, super not into it. And I went into the bathroom at the restaurant, and I looked at myself in the mirror, and I was like, I want to go home. I don't want to stay here. Okay, so that means I, like, had a conversation with myself. And I was like, okay, so that means that I need to say something. All right, I'm just gonna say something. Okay. And I, like, get out of the bathroom and walk down the hall, and we're like, meet him on the sidewalk. And I was like. So I just want to let you know, you know, I think you're great. I'm just really not feeling this, you know, nothing's wrong with you and nothing. You know, it's not a bad thing, but I'm really not feeling this. And I think I'm gonna go home. And he goes, oh, goodness, me, too. He was like, I don't know what it is, but, like. And I was like, the little person inside of me who was, like, scared earlier started, like, cheering, and I was like, oh, my God. This is. Like, the same thing was going on for him. And I'm so glad that I said something, because he was gonna not say something. And we would have gone, like, two hours awkwardly playing games and being like, ugh, when is this gonna be over? And so it was so sweet. He walked me to my car. Like, we hugged. We said, best of luck to each other. And it was like, the most clean, sweetest goodbye. And that was it. I mean, the moment leading up to saying that to him, I was, like, gonna pee my pants. Cause it's just perfect.

I love how honest you are right now. This is so cool. Especially as the CEO of Meet Mindful. I love this story. And this is the last part of the show. Amy, we're gonna say goodbye in just a minute, but it's seven fast questions for seven of Amy's truths. Are you down to play?

Yes.

What's the most common thing you hear from somebody that's enjoyed a process of connection on Meet Mindful?

That the quality of people is so much higher than they see anywhere else. They've had some really deeply authentic and meaningful conversations with people, even if it wasn't like their, you know, the one that they feel really grateful that this community exists.

Authenticity's been big for you since you could remember since you were small. How does Meet Mindful's focus on authenticity and really these meaningful connections show up in the team, your team culture?

We're really big on practicing conscious leadership work and upholding the commitments to feeling our feelings and to speaking the truth about what's really going on for us. We also do retros every other week where, as a team, we sit down and we talk about what went well, what didn't go so well, and what if we did xyz? So we have a section, so it goes like this. We say, I liked what if I wished? Then we do a section for shout outs and appreciations. And so we have an open forum discussion on those topics, which gives people an opportunity to celebrate the things that went really well, to lament and, you know, just say, damn, that thing sucks. I wish it had gone differently. And subsequently, what we learned from those experiences, like the implications of that and what we'll do different moving forward. What if it gives people an opportunity to come up with cool ideas and share them with the team so we can work on getting them done? And then shout outs and appreciations are huge. We want people to feel appreciated. So those are some of the ways that it shows up in the team.

How does the CEO of Meet Mindful start her day? Do you have a mindfulness practice that you begin? Doesn't have to be the entire day, but how do you start the morning? You know, you first get up. What happens for you?

This morning is a perfect example. I got up at 5, I get out of bed, turn on the. The kettle and heat up some water, go back into bed, cuddle with my dog. We have, like, a little bonding moment. And then I get to, like, kind of snooze and cuddle with him. And then when the water starts boiling, I get up. I usually make, like, mushroom coffee from four Sigmatic. I'm super into that right now. And so I have a coffee. I'll also probably make some, like, hot lemon water on the side as well. And then just have a moment where I turn on some kind of ambient or really beautiful music and sit on my couch and just drink for a moment in silence. This morning I went to a 6am yoga class with my favorite teacher at my home studio. And then when I got back from that class, I sat in meditation for 20 minutes. And then I got my day going, you know, got ready for work and all that stuff. But just having those moments of stillness is really important to me in the morning. And also moments of movement. I generally start my day with movement in some way, shape or form.

That sounds like such a beautiful morning. I was just like, visualizing the kettle and I want to cuddle with a dog. Amy, what makes you laugh the most? What cracks you up in life?

Me and my ridiculousness. I laugh at myself all the time. Not because I think I'm hilarious, but because I think the things that I do or am thinking, I find them to be really funny. Like. Like ridiculous funny. Like I don't take myself too seriously. I also laugh a lot at my dog because he's really, really freaking cute and he does ridiculous things.

What is your dog's name?

Bali. Bali, like the island.

The mentioning of stories. This is so cool that you mentioned this. You know, we all have stories we tell ourselves. As you go out there now, leading this company with a mindfulness lens, what story have you let go of in regards to true connection while you date?

Hmm, that's a great one. That I need to figure it all out. That it has to be a linear progression of knowing and controlling and logic. I feel like more and more I just want to be along for the ride and know deep in my heart and my soul what it is that I desire and trust in the process of getting there.

My core lesson is to trust. I'm so happy you mentioned that. And our last question for you, Amy, is wellness now. So 2018, what is wellness to you? In other words, how would you personally define wellness in your life? What does that look like for you?

Having a deep appreciation for everything that I get to do and that happens in my life. Both the fun and beautiful, positive things and the things that are challenging. Learning to appreciate both having an integrated, not even balance, but like, integrating all the things that are important to me, from work to my community, to my close relationships and friends, to my health to my movement and to creating new relationships like those being integrated in a way that feels like all those different buckets are being filled on a regular basis. That, to me, feels like full wellness. And of course, my practice is part of that, you know, my connection to my higher self and being able to take that and bring that into the world and create a difference.

It's so peaceful, too. I was just feeling calm when you said that. And you've reminded us of so many great things on the show today. You know, we talked in depth about conscious relating and really, how do we drive this real connection in this overly connected digital world, this digital space? Is there anything we missed, Amy, that you can leave people with? When we understand how to breathe into our body and just really relate to one another, regardless of what's going on with our phone and calendars and distractions?

Something that came to mind to me as we were talking earlier, and I just want to share a few thoughts that I've been reminded of from a poetry book that I've been reading called Milk and Honey, which many people may have seen in the bookstores recently by Rupi Kaur and by three things that I just can't get off my mind. 1. One of the short poems she has in there says something to the effect of, my mother always told me to marry a man who. Who is how I want my son to be when he grows up. I thought that was really powerful. Like, find the person that you would want your child to grow up to be. Like, it changes the frame completely for me when I read that. And I think that that is really powerful. The second thing is she. For people who are in a relationship right now, that may not be going so well, and you're deciding whether to stay or whether to go. One of the things that one of her poems reminded me of is that she said, when I say I love you, what I really mean is, I'm scared to be alone. And that one hit me because I know a lot of people probably say I love you only because they're afraid to just be alone. And I think that if we can learn to be alone and to become the person that we want to fall in love with, become the person that that person would fall in love with, we'll get there and we'll learn that it feels so much better to be fulfilled and, like, fully lit up and whole and complete on our own than relying on somebody else to try to do that for us.

Amy, thank you for being this beacon of the truth, because everything you just said, I think that was just some of the most powerful sentences you spoke the entire conversation and people can learn obviously more about you and meet mindful@meetmindful.com where, where else can they dig in? Where else can they get started on this real thread of conscious communication and real connection?

We have thousands of articles on being more mindful and self aware in dating and relationships and you can access those through our website on meetmindful.com like you mentioned and there's a ton of articles on for people who are single or dating or going through difficult times and there's lifestyle tips on there as well. So definitely check out the blog and then we have a lot of inspirational stuff on our Facebook and Instagram feeds. Eat Mindful and then yeah, I'd say if somebody is looking for a place to find a more authentic, meaningful connection, check us out and we'll be sending some pretty cool updates your way later in 2018.

I've so enjoyed this and what a beautiful way. What a powerful way to start the new year as so many people focus on the body. Why do we actually do that in the first place? Thank you for bringing us back home and I just want to acknowledge you for the work that you're creating. Yes, it's in the dating world, but it just ripples out so much into our industry, which is wellness. If you want to learn more, go to meetmindful.com we'll also be talking about this in our Facebook group. You can click your show notes on your phone or you can go to wellnessforce.com group. Amy, thanks so much for spending time with us on the show.

Thank you Josh.

Hey my friend, thank you for hanging out and growing with me on today's show. Remember to hit subscribe. Subscribe. Share this podcast with somebody you care about that you think gets to hear this message. Support the show by leaving a five star review for the podcast right now simply by tapping on your show artwork. On your iPhone, click that purple link that says Review this podcast. It helps the show reach more conscious and smart people like you and your voice will attract more world class guests that want to come on the show. So let them hear your voice. For all the downloads, videos, links and free resources mentioned on the episode, go to one wellnessforce.com radio and while you're at my house on the web, join us in the Wellness Force Community newsletter on that page and I'll send you four free guides around staying healthy with your eating, moving and sleeping while you travel. Join a group of people like you over at the Wellness Force Community Facebook page. This is where we talk about the things that really matter. We share our wins, inspirations, struggles, and a lot more. So join us. Tap on the show artwork on your phone and hit that purple link that says join the Facebook group and I will welcome you at the door. Okay. Now you get to go out into your world and create impact for the people that you care about. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.