165 Heather Hemmer: What's Healthy Eating Anyways?

I mean, I understand what taking sugar out of my diet did. I see how it took me from being an emotional wreck and from having brain fog and from being, you know, hiding behind a smile. Because sugar addiction truly does affect our gut. It creates inflammation and there is gut brain connection. So if I had a leaky gut at the age of, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and it was making me depressed and emotional and not feel well, and I didn't know what it was when I looked in the mirror, how could I have felt good about myself when I was feeling terrible on the inside? Until you know how good it feels to feel that good through healthy eating and through food. Because you have to try it in order to understand that there is a connection. It's so real.

That was Heather Hemmer and this is episode 165 of Wellness Force Radio. What's up, my friend? It's your host, Josh Trent. And welcome back to another episode for your weekly access to global experts in all things wellness. As we discover the physical and emotional intelligence we need to live life well. In this episode, we're talking about our relationships with food. We dive into a deep question on the podcast today. What exactly is healthy eating anyways? If you watched last week's Facebook Live with Ali Waddell and I talking about movement snacks, and if you didn't, by the way, what are you waiting for? If you're on Facebook right now or if you're close to your screen, make sure that you go to the Wellness Force Facebook page every Wednesday at 12pm Pacific. In the upper right hand corner, there's a little button. You can click on it and you can get notified when we go live. Ali and I talked about this old battle ax of an idea that for some reason continues to swing around in the fitness industry. And that is if you wanna lose weight, if you wanna be healthy, just simply eat less and exercise more. Well, we know that based on hormones, genetics, epigenetics and environmental factors and our stress loads, as well as other blocking factors, that eating less and exercising more for on a long term structured program, especially one that doesn't have any cyclical variability built in, eating less and exercising more does not always apply. Now, hold on, don't freak out. I'm not saying that eating less calories than you burn is a bad thing. There is some truth to that in context. And we explore this context with the co founder of the 30 Clean on the podcast today, Heather Hemmer. Now, Heather has become a great friend of mine. She is a certified life coach, a fitness trainer, a a motivational speaker. She's also overcome some incredible obstacles in her life in her wellness journey personally to co drive this mission of the 30 clean this message that really is so powerful for hundreds of thousands of people across the world. She joins us live in person at the Wellness 4 studio here in Encinitas to share her story about the twisting and turning road of understanding how to let go of sugar and sugar addiction, how to deal with body dysmorphia to then find the emotional intelligence and the inner dialogue that comes from self love and self care. And self care starts with our breath. So right now this is your breath break. Take a deep breath, maybe it lasts five seconds. And when you breathe the air out, know that creating an environment at your house and in the office is absolutely pivotal to keeping the promises to yourself on your wellness journey. The best way to do that is to set up external frameworks of accountability. When you make a financial investment, especially in food, organic, clean, healthy foods like the micronutrient dense Organifi Green Juice Powder that sponsors this show, you win on so many levels. The green juice powder from Organifi has been a daily, well actually sometimes two, maybe even three times a day energy booster I've come to rely on to beat my afternoon slump. That 3pm slump. I also get the benefits of the adaptogens, you know, Ashwagandha, chlorella, all the things that give me energy. Towards the end of the day you also get to have this energy. Just hop over to organifyshop.com, enter code wellnessforce at checkout to get special discount code 20% off. Not just the green juice filled with all the macronutrient density, but also the entire website which once you try the green powder I'm pretty sure you will love the gold. It'll help you sleep really nicely. Just hop to organifyshop.com, enter code wellnessforce and get 20% off your greens powder as well as everything else while you're on the web. If you're on a screen, make sure you stop by our Show Notes page for this podcast. Inspirational quotes, resources and videos mentioned in the episode with heather over@wellnessforce.com 165 and by the end of this interview, no doubt you're going to have a greater understanding and clarity about how to approach your relationship with food, how to beat sugar addiction you may be dealing with or someone close to you while also growing. Your grace and emotional intelligence can help you deal with loss as Heather has and the emotional intelligence we all can foster as adults around our experiences that happen for us as children, that affect us now and how we can find alternatives to numbing out with food through a practical, pragmatic strategy set that you'll find in the 30 clean that empowers you on your wellness journey. Okay, no further waiting. Be prepared to be dropped in, opened up and inspired with Heather Hemmer. And make sure to get $10 off your 30Clean purchase by entering code WFCLEAN. That's WFCLEAN. Over at the 30Clean.com WFCLEAN there is a challenge coming up in the very near future that's waiting for you now. Here's Heather Hemmer. I'm sitting with Heather Hemmer. She's the co founder of 30 Clean. She is pretty much a spiritual health wellness badass. I've gotten to know you. I actually met you at this Level event. We just had a podcast a few weeks ago with Level and we had this great time. We took a picture by a sailor. It was such a fun evening. But I just felt from you when I met you, this is somebody who's on purpose the way you spoke about what you do and with the 30 clean, like tell people Heather, like you know, who are you? What do you do? What do you do right now?

So I'm Heather Hemmer and I am the co founder of the 30 Clean, which is an online clean eating community. We provide a service in small community groups to help people eliminate the most inflammatory causing foods and feel better than they've ever felt. Really learn what it means to eat whole real foods, to feel their bodies, to be mindful about the quality of food. But Underneath it all, the 30 Clean is a community unlike any other community I've ever seen. The connection and the camaraderie and the love and the support, non judgmental ability to lead people to be better and feel better. From our coaches, from our health advisors, from the peer to peer connection is really why we are so successful.

And also you do a lot of video, you do a lot of media. There's so much about you out there and we're going to get into your story a little bit. But is there something that's come up for you in the past year that you've recently shared and you were like, I've never shared that before. This is something fun or unique that not a lot of people know about me.

I wouldn't say it's fun but I would say that I haven't talked a lot about my true body dysmorphia, that it was something that I've had from the time I was very, very young. I've struggled a lot with self esteem and self worth and just body image completely. And that I was a closet eater. I mean, drive thru all of that.

I'm just like feeling that in my chest right now. Because I don't think many people when they look at you online or when they look at the 30 clean, or when they experience you in a video or even in person, they'd ever think you had any issues at all. I think there's a duality that we all kind of glide on in this life, right? Where you know, you're on the journey and you're kind of like this far. Well, you're just a little bit further than the people who maybe you were five, 10 years ago. Can you share with us a little bit about that?

Well, I think we're all at the same point. If we could all be a little more authentic, I think we'd see the truth that most people are either still figuring it all out and sensing it and living in this duality almost, or the people that you see shining and being leaders have worked really, really hard to be able to manage their thing, whatever it might be, addiction or body image issues, whatever it is, on a day to day basis. Because I think for me personally and for other people that I know that have these kind of thought processes or habits or addictions, it is a daily thing that we work to surpass.

What do you think most people feel addicted to? Is that the addiction to worry? Is it the addiction of like having to have the perfect plan? I mean there's so many things men and women come into the 30 clean or really any healthy eating program at the bottom of it all. Why do we want to eat healthy in the first place? We want to eat healthy because we want to show up powerfully for people that we care about. Isn't that what this is all about?

Once you understand that? But until you know how good it feels to feel that good through healthy eating and through food, your first instinct is I want to eat healthy food because supposedly it's going to make me look good. Yeah, I mean, I think that's where most people are coming from. But it's once they get into it and then they feel it, they keep coming back because they're like, there's no way. I want to lose this feeling. This feeling of like you said, you do, you show up better for every single person around you. You show up better for yourself. When you feel good on the inside, it radiates right?

Yeah. This is much deeper than just, like, I want to look good naked. Which. Well, I mean, which is not a bad motivation. Like, there's nothing wrong with that.

Can I tell you the name of the first group that we had for the 30 clean? So it becomes a little cliquish, right? Like, you can do the program with your friends no matter where they are, so you can be in these small groups. So one of the first groups that we had the name was For Better Naked Tomorrows. Inspirational, right? They're like, heck, yeah, that's why I'm doing this. But then in it, inside that group was so many real and raw women that became so connected. Some of them knew each other, some of them didn't. But what transpired in that was the fact that we were able to hold a space that was so authentic and allowed for everybody to show up with their thing. So anyone else that was feeling like they had body image issues, they just showed up and supported each other. And it was really cool to be able to dive deeper into the why of what their patterning is.

So much emotion goes into your groups and all the work you do. I mean, on the outside, people might look at, you know, there's guides and there's PDFs and there's programs and there's accountability, and there's a Facebook group and there's coaching and there's health experts. I mean, there's a lot. And we can unpack that a little bit in our conversation. But at the core of it all is emotional intelligence. I mean, this is what we talk about on the show so much.

I know. That's why I love your show.

Is understanding. Thank you. Is understanding this intersection of, hey, how does my emotional intelligence, the way that I think, feel, and act, truly affect my body?

Well, that's exactly why the 30 clean came to be. If you dive all the way backwards is because I'm a sugar addict. I actually just came to this idea of, did I have body dysmorphia first, or was I a sugar addict first? Because sugar addiction truly does affect our gut, right? It creates inflammation, and there is gut brain connection. So if I had a leaky gut at the age of, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and it was making me depressed and emotional and not feel well, and I didn't know what it was when I looked in the mirror, how could I have felt good about myself when I was feeling terrible on the inside?

What's the first age where you actually can remember? For me, it's like I don't remember anything under the age of, like, eight or nine.

I know.

It's almost like it blocked out. Maybe I was in a car accident. I don't know. But if anybody listening can relate to this, like, have you ever had a big gap of your life where you just kind of forget what everything felt like? You have no memories around it? Do you have early memories when you're a kid growing up around food that were positive? Or was food always kind of like this negative force?

I don't even know if it. If I related it to positive or negative. At the time, it was more like it was my own little world, which was kind of interesting. So my mom and my sister watched a lot of tv, and I wasn't really into it. Like, I just had other things on my mind. You know, I. I was a visionary, so in my head, I was making things up. And I remember being, you know, younger. I don't know how old I was. No idea. I can't even put an age to it. But having this, like, fake little world where I was taking care of my. I can't believe I'm saying this. Taking care of my little sister. And I would, like, go into the kitchen, you know, like, sneak through, because they were watching tv, so they kind of didn't even notice I was walking by. But I would sneak through, go into the pantry, and, like, get chocolate syrup, and I would pretend to drink chocolate syrup as medicine, but it was always this little, like, sneaky thing that I was kind of doing on my own.

Yeah.

Yeah, man.

So flashing back to childhood, this is where we learned so much about our relationship with food as an adult. We just did a Facebook live. It was actually two months ago that we did it, but we talked about this. You know, all the things that come into our psyche when we're ages 1 through 10. That's how we relate to life when we're an adult. And so your journey when you're a kid to you're an adult, there's so many things in there. You went to Italy, you traveled the world. You are a trainer. For a while, you had boot camps. You've been kind of all over, across the gamut when we look at health and wellness. But take us to a point that really identifies who you are. Now. Looking back, has there been one point where you think we can start from to just learn about your journey here?

Well, yeah, I think that it changed for me when my mom passed away. Shortly after that, both my father and my sister were diagnosed with cancer. And so for somebody that had no idea what it meant to eat healthy. I never worked out. I was literally just living. I knew that it was time to do something different. And I was also not very happy in my marriage. So for me it was like, what can I do with myself that's going to make me feel better? And I went and found a personal trainer who was actually doing group training. And it was that. It was that moment where I completely did something different in my life. I passed fear. I started working out with a group of people who were so excited to be together. And it was a small group, it was like 10 of us, but we saw each other every single day. And when you work out, you do start eating a little bit better. And it was literally just these small, little incremental transformations that changed my brain function. And I think it was the changing of my brain function. And also just like I said, being in the community, I wasn't happy. Like I was married, but I wasn't really happy. When you start to show up around other people who are doing and living in the same vibration as you, you just feel better. So that was literally the pivotal moment. Like when I think of the person that changed my life and I always give him credit. Josh Rogers, who was my trainer then.

Good job, Josh. He's got a great name too.

I know.

So this was a trainer in Arizona that really helped you to transform your life. So he. In a way, and this is what we all do. This is what you do with 30 clean is you take all the lessons you've received and you help other people do that.

Totally.

I'd love for you to share this. For people that have gone through loss is understanding that maybe your parents time or, you know, the thing that happened to your sister, like, was that for a reason? Was that for a lesson or was it just kind of ambiguous? Like I think a lot of times people try to place meaning on something, but I don't know from your perspective if that had a true meaning about you and your own growth or not.

You're right. You always want to put meaning on something to make yourself feel better. There was a time where I was like, there is no meaning for this. And I. The meaning I associate it with, I still don't even really like admitting because it just sounds so sad. If there is a reason for everything, her passing would have been because in order for my sister and I to grow up and become responsible adults, she had to move on because she was the kind of mom that did everything for us. You know, I mean Everything, like literally my laundry until she passed. And she loved us so much. Which also goes into the fact that she didn't probably love herself enough. But I think that with her passing, I had no one else to rely on, really, or lean on anymore. I mean, my dad was still alive, my sister was still alive, but she was my go to and I kind of let her just keep me in this little safe bubble.

Yeah.

And by her passing, I had to wake up and ask myself, like, okay, who am I? What's important? Life is short, you know, If I'm not happy here, how am I going to change that? Because when it comes down to it, the only person that can make change is you. Right. No matter how many. I mean, you need coaches and you need mentors, but they can only guide a human that is ready to be guided.

When you make the decision internally, then you can call on the coach. But if you get the coach before you've made the decision internally, nothing's going to change that. So I want to go back because you mentioned, like, your mom cared for everyone else and then when she passed, I mean, how did that affect you and your relationship with food? How did you see food differently? Or was that something you'd already conquered by then?

No, I hadn't conquered it at all. That's when I went to find a personal trainer and be like, help me.

So that was the point.

And even then, it was the starting point and I obviously started eating differently. Like we did the whole, you know, gym diet. So we were eating.

Was it like low fat yogurt?

Yes.

Grain bread.

Exactly. Protein shakes all the time.

Oh, my God.

And it was delicious. Like, I loved it. I was eating protein.

Who doesn't want to eat bread and yogurt all the time?

Who doesn't want to eat protein bars? I know it's weird, but I was, like, in love with them. Pure protein bars. Oh, yeah.

The quest bars can be kind of addicting.

Yeah, kind of. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I was doing that and things were changing, but it was really a continued journey. I decided to train for a figure show. So my trainer was like, you're doing amazing. You should take this a step further. And while I was still doing some protein powder and Splenda, I was also really dialing in my nutrition to the point where I could see how it was making my body change, like every morning, no joke, I was waking up going like, oh, my God, like I have another abdominal muscle. I mean, it was so cool. And I knew when I changed my Macros or my, you know, whatever. I was changing things. I would see my body change, and from there it was just the clarity, the how good I felt. Right. But I will say it definitely was an interesting thing for somebody with body dysmorphia, because you do get to this place of, you know, the only way to maintain that is to work out like a mad woman and eat basically nothing.

You know, it's like epigenetics. You know, we're born into this world and we have certain things that are either activated or not activated. They lay dormant depending on our environment. And I feel like for somebody, you know, I know myself, and it sounds like from your story, you have a bit of, like, maybe addictiveness towards certain things and then other things. You're fine.

Yes.

And that's how I am, too. So I know that if I'm, like, really diving into being super strict with my food, the obliger in me is going to rebel. I'm going to have one day where I just go off. If I eat not enough calories for too long, I will fall to the dark side. And I'm curious if that came up for you in your training.

Actually, for my training, what I would dive into is literally diving in. At that point, I was still eating peanut butter. I was eating peanut butter. Like, I was going out of style, and I was working out so much that I could eat anything I wanted to. I was still eating healthy food, but my portions were, like, ridiculous, right? And I was still losing weight. And I'm like, this is awesome. I can eat all the peanut butter. But then for like, the last month or last three weeks, I didn't have any of that. You know, I was really, really, really clean. Guess what I ate the night of my show.

Burger King.

No, that's disgusting.

The Burger King is pretty disgusting. Yeah.

No, I can gladly say I have not had fast food since 2000 and probably since 2004, like, the year my mom died. But I am a cupcake addict, and all my friends knew that. And everyone brought me sprinkles cupcakes. No joke. We all went to change after the show. So in my hotel room, there was, like, probably three dozen sprinkle cupcakes. Everyone was like, ready to go? I'm like, okay, guys, I'll meet you there. I mowed down probably. I think it was. I know three for sure. Three sprinkles cupcakes. They're not small. I haven't had sugar in.

So you're super clean. And then all of a sudden, you get this rush, like something like a dump truck of sugar.

Crazy. And I don't know if I recognize what it did to my mind then, but I wish I was as conscious about sugar. I wish I'd known as much about it then, because now I know what it does to me. Like, if that would happen today, for the next week, I would be an emotional wreck. Like a wreck.

This is an excuse that some people use, Heather, and thank you for sharing that, because, you know, there's parts of that that aren't easy to really look at. For so many of us, your story is a mirror of many stories that are out there, whether it's plus or minus. And I think about the way that sugar affects the brain. You know, we've had so many guests on the show that talk about how when you feed the gut a certain type of food, whether it's, you know, processed meat, processed carbohydrates, or a ton of sugar, you actually start changing your gut microbiome to crave more of that, whatever it is, and then it creates dysbiosis. And then from there is all these other health ramifications.

So now we're saying leaky gut, leaky brain, right?

Leaky everything.

Yes, exactly.

So we're getting all the sugar in there. And so this pathway to let go of the sugar, for some people, it's really kind of like Gretchen Rubin calls it moderating or abstaining. Some people, they must abstain. Some people can moderate. How do you see that come out in the 30? Clean?

I think that if you're a true sugar addict, if you go for a little, you're going to end up going for a lot. Unless you get to the real root. Unless you really, really, really get to the root of the cause. Unless you clean out your gut completely and you do, like a whole gut protocol, then possibly you can do in moderation, you know, healthy sugars, like honey, maple syrup, maybe a little bit of stevia. But I think it's. It'd be like asking an alcoholic, right. Or a drug addict, can you just have, you know, a little bit of wine? You know, even if your gut's clean and be fine for most of them, an actual addict, you're going to say no. For a sugar addict, it's the same thing. But for some reason, in our society, we've allowed sugar to still be prevalent. Right? It's okay. There should be a way that you can find moderation. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. You should have dessert. In fact, why doesn't Everyone at the dinner table have dessert. You know, it's expected. We don't have a lot of empathy or understanding for those people who like me, who really can't have it because it does play major, major mind games with me and can put me into a down, like you said, a downward spiral really, really fast.

Let's talk about the tactical stuff, but before that, underneath it is like this huge basement of truth where whatever we learn as a kid, feeling safe, whether it is porn or food or sugar, or maybe it's the ocean, maybe it's a positive thing, there can be anchors for giving us that deep breath when we want the deep breath as an adult. So when people are looking at sugar as an addictive property, what are the ways they can actually know they're a sugar addict? And then once they know, what's kind of the first or second step? I mean, because just to say, oh, take it all out of your diet and you'll be fine, you know, there's going to be a repercussion period. So how do they know first and then what do they do after that?

Well, I think anytime you have an emotional charge and you reach for something, whether it's. And it doesn't have to show up as cookies and cake, right? It can show up as wine, it can show up as bread or cereal.

Shopping.

Exactly. Any addiction. But if we're talking sugar, sugar might not show up at shopping, but maybe.

Unless you're buying a bunch of those cupcakes, right?

So noticing that and being. I think you still have to have enough self awareness to be ready to admit this, right? Because it's a big thing to admit. If you admit it, you have to then be willing to do something about it. So any emotional charge where you reach for something, habitually eating food when you're doing something, maybe out of boredom, anytime you reach for food, possibly when you're trying to distract yourself, I think those kind of habits show that you have an addiction. And then I think you really do have to go back and say, what am I trying to fill? Right? Or what is this covering for me? Or what happened to me as a kid? And I tell my clients that have kids to be really conscious when they're trying to appease someone or soothe with food, because it literally will become what you said, it'll become that thing that they look for forever, right? So if they're, if they always know that they get a snack when they cry, or if they get ice cream if they're sad, you know, there's so Many other things that we can be teaching our kids to be able to provide them with some healthy habits as they get older. So I always try and say, you know, take them to the part like, start reading with them, get them into activities, like, I wish I would have grown up playing a sport because I didn't. I think I tried a couple things, but it was like I was never pushed to say, just, just stay and just keep trying it because it's going to do some great things for you.

Right?

Yeah. And I think learning to, like you said, not get rid of something immediately but to have alternatives. So, okay, maybe you can't have, you know, a gallon of ice cream every night, but maybe you can find some kind of like a smoothie or something that's healthier, like full fat coconut milk that you blend with some frozen bananas and you just start slowly transitioning until you can truly work through where the psychology is coming from.

I love the subbing of the frozen fruit for, because it's real. There's going to be fiber in there. It's not just going to be straight sugar or a bunch of dairy. What came up for me when you were sharing about that was we had an author on the show, David Zapposzotti, and he talked about how he gave an example of a woman going home after a long day of work. She's super stressed. She hasn't eaten all day because she didn't have quote time. She gets home, she opens up the freezer and she pulls out a gallon of ice cream. And eating the gallon of ice cream, she's feeling like she shouldn't be eating it, but it just feels so good. And he explained it as an act of aggression because all day long she wasn't able to express herself, she wasn't able to fill herself, she wasn't able to give herself what she needed to live her life well. And so she gets home at 7 o' clock at night and eats an entire gallon of ice cream as an act of aggression.

It's like self sabotage.

It's a teeter totter. Right. And so it really comes like, yes, there's the knowing, which we'll talk about the knowing, the nuts and bolts, but it's the emotional edge beneath it. It's, well, why wasn't she taking care of herself throughout the day? Why did she have to have that moment of aggression at night? Why did she have to eat the whole ice cream?

And why towards herself?

And why towards herself? And I think that's the inventory that I'd love For you to talk about. It's the inventory of why do I actually do what I do? Where's the deeper kind of undercurrent of where this is coming from.

And I do think that for almost all addictions, and I could be wrong because I haven't studied, you know, truly all addictions, but there's an underlying issue of self love. I think that when we cannot fully embrace everything about ourselves and love on those things about ourselves that we might not love, that we might be wanting to change, or that maybe we haven't completed certain goals in our lives that we wanted to do, we're always going to find that one thing that sabotages us, right? And we're going to keep going back and back and back to that until we take on the option to really dive into our psychology and to ourselves. And I think like with sugar, it becomes this binging thing almost. So anytime you can take the focus off yourself and put it onto something else, it relieves you of that overwhelming feeling of maybe, you know, like I'm not doing enough or I'm not enough. And I think it's like that with a lot of things. You know, food for some people, it numbs their brain, it takes them out of thought. Because when you're eating like that, you're either just being, like you said, mean to yourself and you're doing negative self talk and you're upset about the fact that you're eating it, or you're just completely numbed out. Maybe you're watching TV and you're just digging into the chips, you know, totally mindless. Same thing for alcohol or drug addiction or porn, whatever we said. Basically it's taking you out of your own mind, thinking out of being present and aware, and it's just allowing you to kind of shift out of your body. So I think what the underlying piece of all this is, we have to be willing to explore ourselves and to be still and to be okay with how uncomfortable the stillness can be sometimes.

That was one of my favorite things I've heard all day. Thank you for saying that. And on top of that, I'm also feeling when we want to change the eating, when we want to change how we're doing anything in life from a health perspective, that's when it shines light on the emotional stuff. It's actually a 180. You would think that, oh, if I did enough emotional work, then, you know, my eating and my sleeping and my moving, they would all be awesome. But it's actually from what I found, the Other way around, when one takes care of, they start putting more focus on doing a challenge. Doing a 30 clean, you know, eating no sugar for 30 days. That's when all the emotional stuff comes up. Because you were using that. We were using that. The world uses that as a way to check out.

Exactly. And then what happens sometimes. And this is the part that. But I hope people can hear this and just go with it. It's super uncomfortable. And when you're detoxing from whatever it is, it's gonna feel yucky. Right. Like, I don't know what other word to use for it.

That was a scientific phrase. Yeah.

Thank you. But your body is going to do things that you don't feel comfortable with. You're going to physically feel ill, you are mentally going to be frustrated, you're going to feel irritable. There's going to be a lot of reasons why you're going to say this isn't working because that's the excuse people say, you know, we're doing a broth cleanse right now. And a lot of people are feeling uncomfortable. And I think a lot of it comes from the fact that normally when they're uncomfortable, they get to eat whatever they want. They get to eat the sugar, they get to drink the wine. But letting your body go through those detox symptoms and really feeling it and being okay that at that moment you're not feeling well, and that maybe you're just gonna go to bed at 7 o' clock at night and letting your body reset. No matter how many days it takes, just being supported through that, supporting yourself through that, when you get to the other side, it's not always bliss right away, but there's this clarity that really allows you to dive deep into what's been going on. And I love that.

And the clarity is something that comes with practice. It's not like you're going to wake up in 24 hours and have full clarity. Maybe occasionally. But I think when it comes to lifestyle, clarity comes over the long term. It's not something that just happens to you. Let's go into the nuts and bolts then. Because, you know, the 30 clean, no gluten grains, dairy, no sugar, no processed foods.

We do allow.

But you can have wine, right?

A little. You can have a glass or two of your favorite adult beverage on the weekend.

And one square of dark chocolate, three.

Squares of 85% or greater dark chocolate throughout the week.

I like this so much more than the whole 30 right now. It's so much more.

We love them too.

Well, and Melissa's awesome. There's nothing wrong with that program, but every program gravitates towards other people. That's why we're all homies in this space.

Totally.

There's no competition here. But tell people the nuts and bolts of the 30 clean.

Yeah. So that's it. You're basically coming into a program when you register for the 30 clean, you're getting all this great information right off the bat, and then you are placed into a small, private Facebook group, and you are with a 30 clean coach and with a 30 clean health advisor who's certified. You're basically supported through the process of removing all inflammatory foods, which you just said, no gluten, dairy, grain, sugar, alcohol for 30 days. We have shorter programs as well, but we're doing this to reset the system. Right. And the reason we allow these, you know, little fun dangling carrots at the end of the week is because we want to meet people where they're at. So many people are so afraid to give up whatever it is that if they just feel like there might be something they can hang on to, oftentimes by the end of the week, they get to Friday. You know, especially if it's their first challenge, they're excited to say, you know what? I don't think I need that wine that I was so looking forward to.

That's so smart. It's like getting people out of immediate gratification and slowly building up their edge and their neurons around delayed gratification.

Exactly. Because once you get there, it's almost like the person that is trying to quit smoking and they have to keep a pack of cigarettes in the house. And for many people, depending on who you are because we're so bio individually different, knowing it's there is enough to say, I don't need that right now. Like, I know it's there, so I don't need it. And if you know that come the weekend, you're going to be able to have a glass of wine by the weekend when it comes. And our coaches are amazing. They're going to remind everyone, hey, while it's allowed, if you're feeling amazing and you really want to know how far this program can take you, go the weekend without your wine. And the support of the community allows people to be feeling the need. Right. But then they just go in and they post and they say, like, hey, this is what's going on. I'm feeling nervous. Or, I'm going out to happy hour tonight. And immediately you have the support of everyone on your team. Saying all the reasons or all the tips on how you're going to be able to get through the night.

This is what connects the dots. By the time this comes out, people have seen all these wellness technology devices at CES and we have MyFitnessPal and we have this oura ring. We have all these things that help people kind of look at how they're showing up. And food is one of them for tracking. But you know what I think most people miss the mark on? It's that these devices don't mean anything if there's not a human being on the other side. I think why you've been so successful is because in your community, and I'd love to share my experience because I got to go through 30 days of it. My biggest lesson is that even though I've done all this work, I'm 37 years old. I learned from all these awesome people that I respect that are like global health and wellness leaders. I still recognize that. There's that little kid who uses food to numb. He's still in there. And so I'm not angry at him. I don't beat him up because I've learned through emotional intelligence training, the last thing you ever want to do is start giving that kid inside a removal of what the kid is asking for. That's not gonna solve anything. So my journey, still at 37, is to understand, well, where do I actually go when I'm stressed? What foods are my go tos? And for me it was eating like a bunch of fruit at night. So I would notice, I would eat fruit at night and then I would go for some gluten free bread and it was like, wait a minute, my carbohydrates are way off kilter here. And then the deeper emotional inventory for me in my 30 day, 30 clean, the thing that came up for me was just stress. I'm in this phase of my life where, you know, I'm running this show and we're doing all these cool things for the Wellness Force community. And it's just like, it's a lot.

I think that's really important to recognize.

Anybody can relate to this. It's a lot.

It's a lot.

And so the things are going to come up from our training, our neural programming when we were a kid.

I mean, stress is so important to look at too, because a lot of people tend to come back to our program over and over because they're like, well, something didn't work or I have to try it again, but not one thing can work. Unless everything's in balance. So stress itself can be highly inflammatory. Right? So perhaps you're eating the best you can and yet you're still feeling like nothing's shifting. You're still having gut issues. If you're not looking at all the other aspects of your life, which we focus on as well during those 30 days, then you're missing something, then you're not gonna feel your best. Right? So if you show up and every day you're talking about the fact that like, oh, I ran from here to here, I was at work all day, I just got home, I'm still eating clean, but I just pulled a salad out of the fridge and I went to bed at 2 o' clock in the morning and I Woke up at 5. But we as your coach can look and say, okay, take a deep breath, like, what can we shift here? Because we see that you're running rampage and you need to slow down. If you want to see change in your health, you need to slow down. So we get that ability to really see people's lives, like 360 degrees, which really brings the true sense of healing into the program.

And the conversation shifts from us being alone, which isn't true. It's never true. We just make it so because we don't breathe, we forget to breathe. What I noticed in the group is that there's so many conversations happening. You know, someone posts a photograph and it's not just like, good job, smiley face emoji. No, there's like full blown conversations happening. I think this is the most important thing when we look at true accountability. I'd love to understand what is your definition in this technology age, in this frenetic pacing and all these things that people must do to kind of meet the demands of the modern world. How would you define accountability right now?

I think accountability has to start with yourself, with the support from others. You can have somebody asking you a lot of questions and being there and watching you and supporting you and asking to see your breakfast, lunch and dinner all day long. And you can show up and do that. But I truly believe that unless once you've tapped in a little bit to yourself and not even a little bit strongly to yourself, and you're ready to say, I'm committed to me. The accountability for others is going to keep you there and going to keep having you come back and keep having you be on the path to strive to best. But I think you ultimately have to want to show up and be accountable to yourself.

Yeah, it's the deeper inner fire and then that's when you actually can receive the coaching, maybe.

Exactly. And that's what's so cool. So, like I said, people come back and come back and come back and do the program. And oftentimes they'll be like, this is my third challenge. And something shifted. Like, they need our community. And then our community helps them dive deeper and get excited to show up. Especially when you see so many other people changing and you see other people's journeys, because people talk on these challenges. I mean, they really dive into some of their most personal pieces of their life and personal parts of their journey. So when you see someone who has really overcome, whether it's emotional eating or overcome some major disease and they're glowing, you can't help but say, I can do that, too. If this person just came from a journey with so much struggle, and now they're showing up every single day and they look amazing, and they're exercising and they're taking really good care of themselves and their relationships are better, and they're just showing up with so much positivity, and they're making me feel better. I have no excuse.

Yeah, but it's because they had the fortitude, the emotional strength to just check in where they truly are on the journey instead of saying, I made it. I'm here. I'm totally fixed. Everything's perfect. That isn't always inspiring. And I think nine times out of 10, it's not. People want to know the story. People want to know that, like, you know what? Life is messy. You're not going to get it the first time around. It's not going to be perfect on your first fricking swing. Why do you think batters have batting practice? The same thing comes to health and wellness and everything that we do in our movement and our food. Because, man, good things take time. And especially if you didn't receive the coaching that you wanted in your first two decades of life, then you had to learn that on your own. And so these programs like you've created as adults, we can really take care of the kid that's in there.

Yes. It's so funny. Somebody else just said that to me the other day. So I've been talking more about my history and my body dysmorphia. And it was a coach of mine, and she basically said, you need to go home tonight and you need to hug little Heather. Like, it was all about really, truly. Like I said, self love, like, loving and visualizing it and owning that little kid who's just like, I didn't know what to do. You know, I just need a little bit of help. And now if you help me, we can get through this together and we can both show up feeling totally supported.

That is such a powerful phrase of mirror work, which came up. And I actually worked with a client last year, Kathy Hutchinson. She actually went from eating 100% vegan to now incorporating healthy animal foods into her diet because she did her mirror work. And she started to feel like there's something wrong here. There's something not right in my body. And I'm gonna listen to that. I'm listening to my body's intuition.

Mirror work is crazy.

Mirror work is probably the hardest thing. And I had no idea we were gonna talk about mirror work either. But this is so big because when was the last time, if you're listening to this show, you looked in the mirror and you told yourself, you know what? I love you.

Yeah. And then said your name. Right, Right. Like Heather Hemmer. I love you. I love you. But you know what?

If the thought of that makes you flinch, then just. That's your work.

And sometimes you think, like, oh, no, I could do that. But as soon as you actually get in front of the mirror, it's like everything shifts. Right? Oh, wow. I really have to love. And the more you. Sorry, I'm gonna get a little crazy here. The more you start doing it right, and the more you actually start looking, the more interesting it is what you see looking back at you.

Tell me what you mean.

You actually start to really see yourself. So if you're somebody who has had image issues or body dysmorphia or even, you know, depression or anxiety, you don't necessarily see yourself. But when you're looking in a mirror, you are actually talking to yourself. You're really, really, really reflecting. And when you can finally understand that you're the most important person in your life because you're the person that's going to be talking to you. It can shift everything.

Yeah. Because you can look through the eyes and the story's all there. Doesn't matter anything else. Because that can all be changed. If somebody's listening and they're like, heather, you don't understand. You don't know my story. I'd gone through this loss, I'd gone through this tragedy. I'd gone through this move, and I lost this someone I cared about, or I lost my arm or whatever it is. There's so many things that happen to us or for us. However you see that, if somebody is in that emotional state, where they're like, you know what? I don't feel like anybody understands me right now.

You know what I say? Find other people's stories that are just like yours and listen to them, and listen to them and listen to them. Because those people understand exactly where you're coming from. People that have your story and have made big shift. It helps. All of a sudden at some point you have to wake up and say, I am not alone. Other people do understand my story and there is the ability to change. But again, you have to take ownership. And I think that's the hardest thing. It's so hard for me when I have someone that asks me, you know, about the depression and I talk about especially. It's really hard with parents when I see how kids are right now. A lot of kids having, you know, being diagnosed with ADHD and emotional issues where they'll just a little bit of rage and wanting to talk about diet and getting held up, they don't want to hear it. And because I understand it so deeply, I mean I understand what taking sugar out of my diet did. I see how it took me from being an emotional wreck and from having brain fog and from being hiding behind a smile but inside just being just.

Like a war going on.

Yes, every single day. And what it does when I don't have it. I just wish that people would say, okay, I will give this a seven day chance. I will give this a 14 day chance. Because you have to try it in order to understand that there, there is a connection. It's so real.

I don't think people understand, especially in like the major media outlets, you know, we have people like Dr. Oz, which, you know, some of the stuff he does is great, that's fine. But there's also a lot of just crap out there. And I think right now we're in this kind of epoch where everything's changing and it's like the Internet's so big and there's so much information out there that the only way you can ever get the info you need is by actually having someone to help you filter through it all. It's almost the same, if not worse than not having enough information at all.

I agree with that. There is way too much information and the ability to receive information.

So the only way we can really trust is by looking at results. Right. So if someone has a result, the biggest report card, the best grade in the world is given from someone having a result like you shared maybe, maybe has gone through a similar story as you that you actually want, you want Their result and you see that they've gotten it. So what is healthy eating anyways? I mean, what is this? It's on your website. It's one of the taglines that you guys really address. I mean, what is that? So people have done the emotional stuff like you and I have talked about and they've kind of looked at the food paradigm and they're like, okay, Heather, what exactly is healthy eating?

There's a simple answer which is we eat real food that hasn't been altered, that's not processed, real food that comes from the earth, that doesn't even need a label, right? And then we get to experiment with different forms of eating real food and find out what works for our bio individual selves. Because we are all going to be different. And that's what we talk about a lot on the 30 clean. We have people start with the most simple anti inflammatory diet, which is taking out the most common inflammatory foods, right? So we're taking out the gluten, the grains, the dairy, the sugar, the alcohol. Does that mean you can't ever have these foods ever again? And that we think that you're supposed to eat this way, which is paleo esque for the rest of your life or 365 days out of the year? No, we don't think that. We think that by doing this you're going to get as clean as possible and start understanding what's happening inside your body. So you might get to day 30 having eaten only real foods. You took out, you know, most of the inflammatory foods and maybe you're still not feeling amazing. So at that point we say either do another 30 clean challenge to see if this is what's going on, or work with one of our certified health advisors. You know, understand that maybe you have a deeper autoimmune disease, maybe you need to take out other inflammatory foods, maybe you need to remove nightshades. But we're still keeping in the premise of eating whole real foods that come from the earth that haven't been processed or altered.

It's simple when you explain it like that. But some people still get confused. Like for me, I've always said, look, if it grows out of the ground or swims or walks around or comes from a tree, you can eat it if it doesn't have a label, go ahead and eat it if it doesn't have a label. But I think people still get misconstrued because we have so many clever marketing people out there.

Oh my gosh.

Right. What are some of the things that you come across in your communities these myths, these lies that people get confused about when it comes to healthy eating?

Well, I think people still think that fat is bad. I think it's slowly or maybe more rapidly now, starting to shift. And people are like, okay, so I can actually eat avocado. I can eat full fat dairy. If dairy's okay for me, I can eat full fat coconut milk. Yes. Fat is actually important for our body. Healthy fats are important, healthy for brain function. And we need. I think people are still under the misconception that the only way to get calcium is through dairy. So that if they're not drinking, you know, two glasses of milk every day, they're not getting their calcium.

The narrative that pushes that is the same paradigm that pushed De Beers for diamonds for marriage in their early 20s. Yes, people don't know this, but the reason that rings are such a popular thing, diamond rings, is because that was a campaign that was run by De Beers diamond miners in the early turn of the century. So the same paradigm when it comes to dairy. The whole thing with like, got milk? I mean, they really killed it. It's great advertising. Oh, yeah, look, dairy's not for everyone. What's your views on dairy for people?

I think nothing is for everyone necessarily. Real food is for everyone, but not every category of real food is for everyone. I think that some people, if they're looking at the quality, and that's another thing we talk about in the dirty clean, the quality is what matters so much. So I wouldn't say just go ahead and drink milk. I'd say if you can have dairy and it works for your system and you've uncovered it by letting it out of your system for 30 days and bringing it back in and you don't notice any changes, you don't notice any signs of inflammation, then if you want to drink high quality organic dairy from good cows that have been raised with love, ethically raised cows, then you're probably okay. Maybe even try raw if you, you're okay with the fact that there may be some airborne illnesses in there.

Yeah. But raw, for the most part, as long as you're getting it from a great source, it can be very, very safe.

Yes.

I mean, I've even seen it at Whole Foods and Sprouts.

Oh, yeah.

Becoming a lot more popular grocery stores out there. So for people that have dairy sensitivities, I can't do dairy. I always wondered, when I was a little kid, I'd be kind of slumped over every morning at school because I'd Eat cereal, you know, Captain Crunch. And I'd be like, I wonder why no one else has stomach aches in the morning like I do. My parents didn't.

No, they didn't know. I mean they really didn't know. And the same thing goes for animal protein. You know, I think that some people may do really well on animal protein. I think that there' sit's full of amino acids. It's really important for us. But again, quality matters. If you're eating commercially raised animals, probably not the best thing for you. And you may do better when you're eating grass fed, when you're eating, you know, hormone free and you might feel a difference in your body and just in your mind and your clarity and everything. There are some people, maybe it's because their digestive system is still kind of off track and they're not getting the right enzymes that they're not doing well on animal proteins and they'd be better on more of a plant based diet. But it may just be that that's what their body needs. So I think it's about staying away from a dogmatic approach to eating and being able to shift your focus into intuitive eating and really understand what's going to work for you.

How has intuitive eating changed for you since 10 years ago when you kind of didn't know anything at all then? 30 clean wasn't even, not even on your consciousness. Right. Look back to how you were then, to the intuitiveness that you've sharpened now.

You know how you said you can't really remember those things. I can't even remember feeling anyway about how food made me feel. It was more just like, what am I going to eat? When do I get to eat it? It was so much a way that I stuffed down my feelings and a way I took care of myself the only way I knew how that there was no, oh, does my body really want this apple pie from, you know, McDonald's right now? No. I mean I would have said no.

But my brain does.

Well, like I, yeah, there was no, it was actually a more of a guilty thought like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this. But it wasn't coming from this like beautiful intuition inside of me. It was coming from self hatred, not a lot of love. And how can I sabotage myself further?

Do you feel like you really had the 30 clean come through you because it was something that you look back and it's something you would have needed back then?

That's a great question. I think it was more if I go deep into that Possibly. But for me, it's been less about nutrition and more about really wanting to serve people to help them feel their best. And it usually starts with nutrition, you know, but for me, there's so much power in community and just giving people a place to feel safe, to experience all of these opportunities in living a healthy lifestyle.

The word that comes up for me when I've just hung out with you and been around you is connection. I think you're a big connector. You like to connect people, you like to do videos, you like to connect everyone. How do you stay connected to you? What are the things that make you stay connected to you as you connect so many other people?

Great question. And I have to be very conscious about that because there are times, and I don't know if you go through this too, because you're always with people where I'll be like, why am I feeling off? It's like, oh, I haven't done a lot of self love or a lot of self care.

I need some downtime.

Yeah, totally. So for me, it's being outside among nature. I love being outdoors and even if it's just a walk across to the park and getting my bare feet, you know, grounded into the earth, being at the beach, being near the water, anything that reminds me how blessed I am to be connected to like source, you know, just connected to this world.

For someone that is wanting to go down a journey for nutrition, what should they look for in a program? So there's so many freaking programs out there, right? How do you know if someone's a fit for the 30 clean?

Oh, well, anyone is a. I mean, I don't. I think they find us. We don't necessarily search them out. I mean, yes, we search out organizations and fitness studios to partner with because it's such a great partnership. But when it comes to an individual, it's been so organic. You know, the individual growth of the 30 clean is really coming from, you know, you tell your friend, you tell your friend, and so on and so.

On and so on.

If you want to make a lifestyle change starting with nutrition. First of all, I truly believe in intuition. I think that we always know when something feels right to us and we offer two different approaches. So we actually have something called a simple start, which is for people that don't really want to be in community. They don't necessarily have the tools. So really they sign up for our Simple Start program. It's just emails. And they can have a group connection if they choose, if they want to, but they don't have to. And it's just giving them the day to day information and it just helps them and reminds them every single day why they're doing this process, why they're going through an anti inflammatory diet and how they should feel amazing. And then I think if you're somebody who has tried it on your own and you just can't do it, I think looking for the kind of community that fits for you, the 30 clean. We're not about being, you know, having people post all over their social media and be everywhere and be seen and push our name out because we know it's going to happen organically if it's meant to. We're really a place where they can say, I'm just coming into a group. Maybe there's nothing local for me and I just, I don't have enough time. So I want to be online and have my supportive group online. We really give them that safe space that they don't need to share unless they want to. So I think it's just what kind of person are you? Are you more of somebody who wants to be alone reading books, listening to podcasts? I mean, there's so much great information now on podcasts, but kind of like what you said, there's so much information, it's being able to say I'm going to find one thing and I'm going to give this one thing 30 days or I'm going to give this one thing however length of time you want, but just focus on that one thing so you're not overwhelmed or not trying to listen to all these different ideas. It gets overwhelming. And you open up your itunes and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't even know what to listen to today.

One of the most powerful people that's been on the show is Dan Pardee and he talked about knowing without doing is literally the same thing as not knowing.

Exactly.

So you can get as much information as you want and you can have certifications on your wall. But if people are not doing it, Heather, if they're not taking the inspired action, then nothing's ever going to change. There has to be something deeper. And that's what I've loved. You've gone so deep with us today. Thank you for sharing everything that you've shared. I have a few questions for you. And we get a lot of questions about relationships. When one partner is like, you know, wanting to be healthy and the other part is not how do you deal with that? What's the strategies around? You know, somebody wants to lose 10 pounds. They want to let go of old weight, but the other partner is kind of comfy where they are. They like the potato chips, they like watching Netflix on the weekends, and they don't want to be like their other partner. That's a tricky edge to watch.

We see that a lot. I can say one thing. That is another reason why people come to the 30 clean. Because it gives them a community that actually is doing the same thing they want to do. So, again, hanging out with people that are in the same vibration and not feeling bad that the person that is in their home with them isn't following along. So they can kind of complain about it maybe a little bit in the safe space and be like, oh, you know, my partner isn't wanting to eat the same dinner I'm making, or how can I create dinner to make them excited and still feel healthy? So we give them a lot of tips and tricks. But I think, again, when you're doing something for yourself, you have to be committed to you, and you have to have such a strong relationship that you two can have the conversation. And hopefully you're with somebody that is supportive enough that can say, I see what you're gonna do. I will support you. Maybe I'll keep my snack food, you know, in another part of the pantry, or I'll keep it on the fridge or someplace where you can't really see it. Yeah.

But for me, I'm gonna know it's there. You better not.

If we're in relationship, you guys have to find a mutual. A mutual agreement. You have to compromise somewhere.

There has to be that real conversation.

Yes.

What I'm hearing from you is there has to be, like, a shoulder to shoulder, face to face, breath to breath conversation around. Hey, honey, this is why it's important to me, and I love you and I really want you to support me. Are you willing to support me in this better version of myself that I'm working on?

Right. But you can't expect the other person to follow suit if they're not ready. And you have to know that as long as you are living your truth, the other person's either going to come along on the journey because they're going to see how great you feel, or you have to be okay with the fact that there's going to be two different things and find new ways that you get along and what you find in common with each other.

I remember we were talking with Drew Manning about this, and, you know, the fit to fat to fit. He lost the weight after he had gained, like, 80 pounds. And it really challenged his marriage because, I mean, I'm sorry, food, politics, sex, those are all big inputs to a relationship. Money. Without those, like, kind of the wheels fall off the wagon pretty fast, don't they? And so when I look at his journey and how much food affected him and his wife at that time, I think that's a mirror of everyone else. I think that's what we're all going through is, like, the relationship with ourselves and food. And when we get with other people, I can think back on relationships that I've had. And food was like a calming thing. It was a way for me and my partner to bond. What are some healthy strategies for people as we close down here for creating that trusted bond around health in a relationship?

Communication is the number one thing. If you don't have communication, you really don't have anything, right? So I think by starting communication, you're already getting closer. And maybe you have a calendar. We always tell this to our people, too. Put a calendar in your house and find date nights where each of you get to choose something that you want to do. Start finding common denominators where food isn't the thing. Also say that you have to be really compassionate, too, to your partner, because oftentimes they're just as scared about the change. And maybe your desire to change is having them have to take a deeper look at themselves. So have compassion around that and understand that not everyone is on the same speed to get to the next journey.

Heather, just so enjoy. You just so love your energy. And I have seven really fast questions I want to ask you. Are you ready?

Oh, gosh, sure.

What is your favorite positive news network?

For nutrition, I go to Kris Kresser. And for positivity, I actually listen to Oprah's Super Soulful Sunday.

Yes, that's good. Next question. What's a book that's really shaped you? Like, what's a book that's really made you who you are?

I love the four agreements.

Why?

Because I think that the four agreements, when you live true to them, you're really living true to yourself and you're going to show up better in the world.

When you look at health and how you've transitioned so much, if you were able to hop in a time machine and literally go back and just plant a little note in the pocket of you when you're like 10, 12 years old, what would you write on the note?

I love you.

Doesn't need to be much more than that.

No, I love you.

When we See, the choices that people make right now, they're usually coming from a place of fear or they're coming from a place of love. Biologically, interpersonally. That's kind of how we all see it. How have you sharpened your decision making faculty in life? In other words, has there been an event or things that have happened for you that have really made you make better decisions? From that threshold on, you're gonna like this one.

Breathe. Honestly, I think when I was able to become clearer on who I am and just take a deep breath and do more from intuition, I was able to be trusting on the path, because you have to trust. So it's breathing and trusting. Sometimes you don't know and you just have to wait it out.

Has there been one person in life who's really helped shape you? A human being that's been a leader for you, or somebody that's really uplifted you and kind of sent you on your way with more knowledge, more intelligence, more inspiration?

I think there's a handful of people, but I would say, honestly, I know that there's a lot of experts out there, and I'm sure a lot of people talk about them, but I would honestly say my friends that I have had my whole life, like from elementary school to junior high school, they have been pillars in my life and have reminded me on a daily basis that I am capable of creating the kind of life I want. And sometimes I think it's easy to have mentors and experts, but when it's people that actually know you, they can help bring you a little bit further in life.

What is one of your favorite foods where you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna travel for two weeks. What do you take in your bag on the plane?

Great question. I will be taking trail mix. I am slightly addicted to nuts, so that's an easy one. And always simple to have. I always have my water bottle. I feel like oftentimes hunger is just a mask for thirst.

This just came up yesterday in conversation. We need to drink water, people.

We definitely need it.

Let's drink water.

When you travel, I don't think you really need to have that much in your bag. Honestly, you're not gonna be gone for that long. And I think it's a misconception that we always need to have food on us.

So you take nuts primarily.

Nuts, primarily. Sometimes I'll throw in an apple. I love apples. But it's not hard for me to eat before I get on a plane or before I get into a car. And it's not hard for me to drink water the whole time. I know how to satiate myself and I can wait until the next meal.

I just came across some research about when we're eating constantly. Like you mentioned it earlier in the podcast, actually, we have these cycles. We're always eating at a certain time. Well, those cycles are pre programmed as we travel. So you may not even really be hungry when you're traveling. It's just that, oh, it's 2 o' clock and this is when I usually have my apple and almond butter or.

My beef jerky or whatever safety. I mean, think about another childhood thing. When you were a kid and you'd go on road trips, you'd go travel with your family. Everyone had a pack of, you know, you had to have food with you at all times.

Yeah.

Truth of the matter is we don't need food at all times. Intermittent fasting, you know, 24 hour fasting. We're totally gonna be okay. And if you feel hungry, you're probably not gonna die.

Wow, this has been such a nuanced conversation. You've been through a lot in your life and you lead. How many people do you think you've led at this point?

Oh, I think we've had over about 15,000 challengers.

15,000 lives that ripple out into 15, 30, 45, 60,000 more. Plus you've learned so much. So at this age, at this point in your life, what is wellness to you? Like, how do you define wellness for you now?

I will define wellness as being in balance with my gut and my brain and making sure that I take really good care of what I'm putting inside, whether from food, from my thoughts, from the way I'm breathing the air. Because I know every single thing that I put into me is the way I'm going to present myself to the world. And so that is true wellness. When you can finally put all the good stuff in, in every way.

I wish we were filming this. I'm smiling. The30clean.com is your website. If people are interested in learning more, they obviously can go to that site. But do you feel like there's anything we missed? Heather, when we look at really the two questions of being at peace with our body and also what is healthy eating anyways, those two things, the emotional, the physical, do we miss anything that you think is important?

I just think if you're afraid or if you've ever said the phrase, there's no way I could give up, fill in the blank. Cheese, cereal, coffee. Try it because it's those people that send me emails, text message me at the end of 30 days that are like, I didn't think I could do it and it's just changed my life. Don't let fear stop you.

Oh my gosh, Heather, thanks for coming over to my house and being on the show. We so appreciate what you do. This ripple that you're just pouring out to the world and it's pretty obvious to me that it comes from a place where you truly just want to be of service. This is a labor of love for you. So make sure you go to the30clean.com check out the programs that are coming out. There's multiple challenges. There's one where you can do it with a ton of people, there's something you can do on your own and there's a few dates that'll probably be close to, you know the motivational well.

That you're and we'll have a discount code for your community that you can put in the show notes.

Oh beautiful. We'll link that in the show notes. I didn't know she was going to do that. Thank you Heather for doing that.

Thank you Josh for being amazing.

Make sure you check out Heather's stuff. Heather, we'll talk to you again this year. I'm almost positive.

I like that.

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