167 Michelle Norris: From Healing & Growth To Paleo f(x)

And that's the problem, is that we think this is how a man would do it. So we're going to do it that same way, too. The problem is, is that's not authentic. We are not men, and we shouldn't try to operate as men. We should try to operate as the women that we are. Because the thing is, women are nurturing and it's okay to be nurturing in business. Women are vulnerable. And that is absolutely, bar none, one of the biggest assets to us being in a place of power and leadership. But when we operate with who we really are and stop trying to cover it up and trying to be men and trying to pretend that we're all rough and tough and whatever, if that's not really who you are, it's going to shine through and it's not going to be real. And the problem is that's how I operated. And that wasn't real and that wasn't who I really was, but it's how I thought I had to get things done.

That's Michele Norris, and this is episode 167 of Wellness Force Radio. In this episode, we're talking with my friend, former corporate warrior, trained chef and the CEO of Paleo fx, the largest Paleo event on the planet. You are in for such a treat in this podcast today because this is a different kind of interview with Michelle. Yes, we're going to talk about the power of ancestral living and how big of a role nutrition plays in our lives. But we also explore Michelle's path for healing, dealing with loss and the masculine feminine balance that men and women find most challenging in 2018 and so much more. Now, if you've been looking for a conference or a event around wellness or health, I have to tell you there's one conference that is a must attend and that is Paleo FX coming up here in April in Austin. Maybe you're a trainer, therapist, a coach, a movement pro, a nutritionist, or just someone that cares about physical and emotional intelligence and you want to be around thousands of people just like you. Make sure you listen to the entire episode and check the show notes today@wellnessforce.com167 to learn more about all the discounts and your upcoming trip to Austin in April. And speaking of trips, are you driving right now? Well, driving for me is the perfect place to take deep breaths. This is your breath break now, whether you're walking or driving. Fill your belly with air, let it puff out for five seconds, hold it in for another five and let it go. Take a deep breath. You deserve it and you also deserve energy throughout your day. With the demands of the daily schedule for most people that I know, we all deserve more energy from our show sponsor, Organifi, creators of the Organifi Green Juice, which this week I'm stoked to announce we're doing another Organifi free giveaway. Make sure you check the Wellness Force page on social for that and in our Wellness Force group on Facebook this month. Interesting story. About 10 minutes before I recorded this podcast. It's about 4:30 in the late afternoon. The sun is beginning to set here and I just had my second serving of the green juice packet literally 10 minutes ago. Now I'm feeling so much more present to be here with you on the show. Give yourself this gift of micronutrients, these specialized adaptogens that once drank, they're quickly assimilated to give you that longer sustained energy, especially to beat the afternoon. Slump. Hop over to Organifi shop.com enter code wellnessforce to get 20% off the green juice and everything else on the site. That's Organifi shop.com, use your code wellnessforce to get 20% off and better energy for your day. With the rise of the MeToo movement, this conversation with Michelle today is timeless. She has a unique and honestly powerful take on the roles of men and women, how we can drop into our natural ways of being without losing any power at work or home or out in the world. And for Michelle, this started with her mindset and her approach to healing and growing, which she shares so authentically. On the show we talked about plant medicine, the inner work that matters most when striving to be your best self and what Michelle believes about finding your passion to be a larger part of of the health and wellness world. One of my favorite quotes from Michelle, along with many others on the episode, was when she said, don't wait. Do what you're passionate about now because there's never going to be a perfect moment to start. You have to find your inner voice and that voice will resonate with someone out there. There's always room at the table. Let's go on the deep dive with Michelle Norris. Michelle, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast.

Oh, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

You know, you have a crazy, eclectic past which full of like twists and turns. You were an Italian trained chef but now you're the leader of a paleo movement. I think that's really an interesting dichotomy there. Tell people a little bit about your past as a Chef, how did you even become a chef in your past?

Actually, I had done. I've been an event planner for 20 something years. I've done all kinds of events, usually in some type of charitable capacity. You know, I was the PTA president, so I did stuff there. I was one of the cheerleading directors. I helped found our sports and athletics organizations in two different places where we lived. So I worked in that capacity doing charitable events and that type of thing and putting on events for a very long time. And in all of that, my big passion was always food. And so one of the things that I realized very quickly after going Paleo and recognizing that there were so many different needs for this application across the board, I felt like our food kitchens, where we serve the poorest, we're creating a problem there. So we're serving these people this food, and what happens is we make them sick in the process. So then we get the backside of that, which is we have to start taking care of them financially to take care of how we've made them sick. And so I wanted to start this food kitchen in our daughter who passed away in her name. I wanted to start one in her name. And one of the things that I realized very quickly was I don't have any type of credentials that, you know, the powers that be will. Will pay any attention to me. So I decided to become a chef and to get. I got a degree for as a chef. There's only a handful of schools that actually give a degree for that. I think you can now get a bachelor's as a chef in some schools. But it's really difficult, and a lot of times it's not really worth it because, I mean, once you become a chef, you start working as chef, you're a chef. And there's many chefs that have never gone to school.

It's a whole different world where they talk to each other in specific language and it's always, yes, chef, no, chef. Why do they do that?

Well, that's a sign of respect out of somebody having experience as a chef and having training as a chef. So, yeah, you technically can't call yourself a chef if you haven't been trained. But you know what? There are so many people out there that have never actually had formally training, but they are true chefs. They taught other people, they know what they're doing, they understand the science of food, and there's a lot of science behind food. And so, yes, that is a sign of respect. And that's why you will see that. And it also will irritate a lot of chefs doesn't really bother me, but it irritates a whole lot of chefs when someone calls themselves chef and they aren't trained.

What fascinates me the most about you and your husband, Keith. You know that you co founded Paleo FX 2012. I think it's crazy that it's been five years, it's gone by so fast. And one of the things I've always felt from you in your videos and just in meeting you in person was just this radical, grounded authenticity. And both you and your husband really embody that. And I'm curious, what grounds you the most as we go into this conversation about health, wellness, prosperity, nutrition, and in this crazy, sometimes frenetic modern world, how do you stay grounded? How do you stay authentic and grounded in this craziness that we sometimes experience?

Honestly, I would have told you a different answer a couple of years ago, but in all honesty, what really grounds me is meditation. I pray a lot and I meditate a lot. You know, we talked about this before. Keith and I believe in plant medicines, and we partake in plant medicine ceremonies. That has brought about probably the most profound change for both of us as our personalities and us understanding how we operate and the levels that we operate at and how that all works. We've got some interesting information about both of us yesterday that we're both kind of chewing on and going, oh, okay, this got some interesting stuff that's happening to both of us right now. That's really what grounds us, is really trying to stay true to who we are, to continue to tap into our higher conscious and operate from that perspective of always wanting to give and contribute and have impact in the world and having it be positive. At the end of the day, we can all be positive or negative or both or whatever the case may be. And I can tell you, over the last couple of years, my impact, while positive on the outside, on the inside was not. It was very negative and very caustic and detrimental to a lot of people that I love and care about and really been working on that in the last two years and probably had some of the biggest breakthroughs in the last few weeks. For me, that really were profound.

It's interesting to me because on a previous conversation you and I had what struck me the most. You said, yeah, Josh, for the first three, four, even five years, I was literally running PaleoFX by myself. I didn't hire any employees until 2015. Is that what you're talking about? Where there was like a war going on inside of you yet on the outside, you were shining this bright light.

Definitely. But once I did have a team, the problem was, and this is the breakthrough I just recently had, was when you do this by yourself and when you are, and I'm not going to say I. I just didn't have any employees during the year getting their event ready. Volunteers came in at the end and charged through and helped. I couldn't have done it completely by myself, so that the only thing that I didn't do was I didn't have a team helping build it for the entire year. So the problem was that when I did have a team, everything that they did was not the way I would have done it. So it wasn't good enough, or it was this constant battle of having control. And what I've realized recently is that I really don't want control. I want influence. And I want influence because people respect me, not because I'm the CEO of PaleoFX. And so that comes from a place of operating with love and kindness and mutual respect. Not you're going to do it because I'm the CEO and I say so. And the problem was, I operated that way. It was like, no, this is what I want, and this is what we're going to do now. I'm operating from. This is my vision. This is where I want this to be. This is what I want this event to look like. Get there however you need to get there. I don't care. And now I actually really don't care. I don't care as long as everything gets done and we meet the expectations of. Of our attendees and our vendors and our sponsors and our speakers and everybody that's there. If we meet expectations or we blow up expectations and they are so happy or whatever, then you know what? The fact that I wouldn't have done it that way doesn't matter to me anymore. I just. What matters to me is I want my team to be happy. I want them to feel like they have a mission, that they have a purpose for being here, and that it's not to just take orders from me. I want them to have autonomy in what they do. And that is what's changed. That's what's different, and that is trying to work through all that and understand. And I've had conversations with my team now since I've been back, because I was on retreat for a week and had this breakthrough. And I have to say, it was the most exciting, exhilarating, thrilling, happy breakthrough I've ever had. And I felt the most liberated that I've ever felt in my life was realizing that I don't want control.

Oh, my gosh, Michelle, I'm just feeling what you're saying so much in my body as I'm listening to you. And I'm also understanding too, that maybe the person that you were in the past actually helped you. And how do you honor that person that you've been in the past? You know, that hard charging, almost, maybe more masculine energy compared to what you're talking about now? A lot of women listen to the show, so I'm talking to all my ladies out there. How do you operate in this world? Getting things done, being in that masculine energy, but yet still honoring that feminine. It seems like you let go of a lot of those rings of the masculine in the past, of that, like, vicious control.

It definitely is. And the thing is, is that I don't want to make that sound like that. That's all that men are about. Because I don't think that men necessarily operate that way. What I think happens, and you and I had this discussion, is I think that women have this false sense of masculinity in the workplace and in a place of power or in a place of leadership, and they think that they, in order to get things done or to get people to do what they need them to do, they have to operate in this masculine energy, which actually is not authentic and is not real. So we, when we are trying to mimic it, we mimic it incorrectly because men don't operate. And this is ladies not bashing us or whatever, because it is what it is where we work mostly in and operate mostly in a man's world. And that's okay. The problem is, is that when we think that we have to be a man to have power and control, we actually lose our power. That's why we always complain. Well, if man does this, he's considered, you know, great and wonderful and whatever. And if we do it, we're considered a bitch. Yeah, we're a bitch because we're not doing it like men, because we're not men. And that's okay. We have a lot more power if we don't try to operate like that.

Can we pause right there and have you rewind that? Because that one sentence you just said, I think holds so much truth in this current age. Right now we have this hashtag MeToo, which deserves attention. But then also, Michelle, so does the solution. Can you go into why you said that?

Yeah. Well, the thing is, is that I realized it's kind of, you know, you need to teach what you need to learn. I have been there. I have operated that way. I have. I've put them. And this is the thing, all of my partners are men. I've put them in this position of now, all of them would tell you they don't ever feel like I've emasculated them. But I would say from the outside looking in, people that were sitting in would say that they were emasculated by the way that I handled things. And that's just a testament to the fact that they're. They feel very comfortable in their masculinity and they're all right. The problem is, is that if somebody else has the perception that I have emasculated them and that I am this, whatever, however this, this power or presence comes across, it actually undermines their authority. It undermines who they are in the space. And as a leader, and that's where I didn't want to keep going, and that was where I was operating all the time. And that's the problem, is that we think this is how, this is how a man would do it. So we're going to do it that same way, too. But the problem is, is that's not authentic. It's not who we are. We are not men, and we shouldn't try to operate as men. We should try to operate as the women that we are and operate from the. Because the thing is, most women are nurturing and it's okay to be nurturing in business. Women are vulnerable. And that is absolutely, bar none, one of the biggest assets to us being in a place of power and leadership is being vulnerable and allowing people to see that we're vulnerable because that shows the authenticity of who we really are and that we're human and that we still we're going to make mistakes. But when we operate that way and we operate with who we really are and stop trying to cover it up and trying to be men and trying to pretend that we're all rough and tough and whatever, if that's not who you are, that's not really who you are. It's going to shine through and it's not going to be real. And the problem is that's how I operated, and that wasn't real and that wasn't who I really was, but it's how I thought I had to get things done. And what's interesting is I really did a lot of soul searching in the last couple of weeks, obviously, about this. But what I realized is I only started doing this when I became the CEO of PillowFX. I didn't do this in any of my past positions. I've owned other companies. I have been in very high leadership roles in companies and everything. And I never once did that in any of those roles before. And I had. Everybody loved working for me. And, you know, there were times where I would butt heads with somebody, but I would butt heads with them, and we would just respect each other afterwards and go, okay, well, you know, we don't agree or whatever, or one of us would skew the other to their side and go, you know what? That. And then there was compromise. I didn't operate that way until I owned paylof X. And I don't know. And the part of it is. And this is something that Keith and I have been talking about and dealing with, and we actually talked to Alex Sharpton about this at our event the day after Payloaf X, our evolved entrepreneur event. Was that. It. It annoyed me. And I would actually get mad at Keith because even though I'm the CEO, people would go to him, ask him questions that I'm like, why are they asking you? You don't have the answer to that question? I have the answer to that question. And it's just sometimes people are more comfortable dealing with men than they are with women.

Why do you think that is?

You know, I just think that some men are uncomfortable with women. And, you know, what could be that whole thing that's going on right now with. Do men feel uncomfortable being in a position with a woman? That they may. And the thing is, is I know that my presence is big. I realize that I. I can be very intimidating to lots of people, not just women, but men, too. And that could be the situation where they're like, you know, I just don't want to deal with her. Her. Her presence is a little much for me or what. But the problem was I was getting irritated with Keith about it, and instead of realizing, okay, it's just the way things are, there's just going to be some people that need to deal with him and not me, and I have to be okay with it. And that was part of the problem, was I would see that, and then I would become more masculine, and then I would become more like, I need to be more like him. And I was almost competing with Keith. No, I was competing with Keith for my own position. And the problem was, is that wasn't where the issue lies. It's. People have to feel comfortable with you, and if they don't, then you need to be okay. With that and that as long as they're dealing with somebody in your organization, it's okay.

Wow, Michelle, this is what I'm feeling from you. And I think really the value of what you're saying is like you've done obviously the inner work, not just what you're doing now with the exploration of your greater self in plant medicine, but also just learning about your past and how that served you. I think so many people can get into shame spirals in life and think, oh my gosh, I have so much guilt about how I was in the past or how I treated people. How would you say that you've transcended that guilt and transcended like looking back and judging what you might have done? I think a lot of people deal with this. They're like, ah, I wish things could be differently rather than focusing on what they're creating in the future.

Yeah, I can tell you. So, yeah, shame and guilt. I was a big proponent of that. In fact, I have just recently named my voice that kind of talks to me and Keith and I have always referred to it as the shitty roommate. And you have this voice in you that talks to you and tells you it can either tell you really great things or it can tell you really shitty things. And this voice has been there telling me I'm not good enough. I'm not, you know, all of those things, you should feel awful because you did this or you whatever. And the thing is, is that what I realized is that those don't serve me or anybody else. If I learn from what I've done in the past and change what I've done in the past, then I have to forgive myself and let that go. And if somebody else doesn't forgive me, that's their deal, not mine. I can't be responsible for their feelings. I just can't. And the thing is, is that keeps me from being able to do this higher purpose to do things for other people, to move on and to serve the way that I feel like I need to serve. And so none of that serves me, none of that serves anybody else for me to sit around and feel really bad about myself and shame myself and go through guilt for things that I've done in the past. Number one, I can't change. The only thing I can do is change the future. And so that's what I focus on and that's what I just really try to work on. Because this is the thing I am really learning, really learning and accepting and trying to practice self love and self care and it's so funny. I've heard people talk about self love and self care for years and always thought that was such not bullshit, just so woo and so whatever. But at the end of the day I got to this point where I realized I am so not good to myself on so many levels, emotionally, physically, mentally, everything. I didn't take care of myself. And the problem is is at the end of the day, if you aren't taking care of yourself, if you don't feel your best, you, you can't give your best and you can't. And that ends up impacting everybody that's around you because either you're in a crappy mood so you're going to bark at everybody else and put it out on everybody else, or if you don't feel good, you can't do what needs to get done in order to help other people or to serve other people. So I have been struggling with learning that, that that's real self care and self love is real and it should, and it should be one of the first things as part of your day. So one of the things that I've repeatedly recently is you have to sleep, you've got to sleep, you have to sleep. And to the point where now I don't schedule things in the morning so that if I wake up in the morning and I'm still tired, I'm like, no, I'm going to keep sleeping. I'm just not going to get up right now. I'm going to keep sleeping. And sometimes it's I just lay in bed awake and I am resting, but I am starting to give myself that permission and starting to take care of myself that way. And I haven't in the past.

I want to hone in on that too because you said permission. And I think that is probably, Michelle, the number one thing that most people deal with. It's like they know what to do. They have all the guides, they know what paleo is, they know they should be sleeping. But yet it's that permission, it's that internal key that kind of unlocks the space to actually just take a deep breath and choose to do the sleep or choose to eat the healthy food. So we know knowing is one thing, doing is another. And in 2008, I remember you were telling me you had so many things that kind of hit against each other, it was almost like this waterfall of things that happened. But you reframed it when we talked and you said they happened for you, they didn't happen to you, you wanted to leave this Economic status of quo and be a really, truly made self entrepreneur. And it was like this easy road. You had many things that happened and I think at that same time, correct me if I'm wrong, but there was also the loss of your daughter, which most people dealing with. Just one of those things that I mentioned would have been completely floored. How did you overcome that? Like, how did you truly get through that?

Oh, honestly, honestly, Keith and I got through it together. There was a combined purpose that came out of all of that for us, particularly with the loss of our daughter Brittany. And when Brittany passed away, she kind of left this legacy that was just like laying there that we were like, well, shit, we gotta figure out how to pick that up and run with that. The problem was, is her gifts were different than ours. She was a worship and music ministry major. She died three days before her 23rd birthday and one week before her college graduation. She had intended to become a missionary, had worked in the mission field. She was in South Africa for three and a half months before she passed away. And so here we were faced with this legacy that she just like left in our laps, that we had no clue she had had all this impact at her young age in the world. And when you're faced with that and you think, well, you can't just let that die, that just can't just die with her. We had to really get creative about how we were going to continue her legacy. And we just started talking about it and we're like, okay, so these were her gifts. They aren't ours, but our gifts are food and nutrition and health and wellness and fitness. These are where we operate. And obviously I was, you know, trained chef and what. And all of these things that this is where we needed to operate. And so we just had to realize the other part of it too is having some faith and having this piece about where Brittany is. And that Brittany is actually where she wants to be. She is. To have her here would actually be selfish to her because my opinion, she's gotten her work done here, she didn't need to stick around. She got done and she's moved on. And so for her to be where she is and take her back would be super selfish. But at the same time, you want to honor what she did. And so we just really had a lot of peace about her. And we knew she, you know, we feel her presence all the time. She's here all the time. And we have this, you know, connection to her in so many different things. And I know that she's really proud of what we've done. And she was the catalyst for us choosing to start Paleo FX and. And really trying to run with this and have huge impact and contribution to the world in a positive way. And it's just kind of like proliferated out into all these different areas that when we first started, we had no idea we would be here. We had no idea that we would ultimately be in a spiritual realm. But it's worked out that way. And the thing is that you have all these pillars of health that you can have as far as the way you eat and the way you work out and your sleep and all of these things. But in all honesty, if your relationships are not good, if your spiritual body is not good, you are going to have problems. And the thing is, is that we are searching for things to fill voids. And this is something I'm overcoming now, is I'm really trying very hard to become a minimalist because I realized that my possessions have owned me and that I have been. I've done what I call it acquisition therapy. So I buy something because I need to feel good, and then when I buy it, I have buyer's remorse and then feel guilty. It starts the cycle all back over again where I have to go buy something else to make me feel not bad about this. And then I'm in this vicious cycle of just consuming. It's this. And the thing is, understanding it and realizing it is really different than putting it into work, into your life. And that's something that I'm working on. And I struggle with it. I struggle with the idea that things have meaning because Brittany, you know, Brittany gave this to me, or Brittany did that, or this reminds me of that memory or whatever. And I was just watching that people think that if they get rid of things, they're getting rid of the memories. And that's not true because the memories are within you. And so I struggle with that. And that's all part of the Paleo effects thing, is having your life have meaning and being mindful in what you do and being. And not being a slave to things and to, you know, debt and all of that stuff. And we're working through all of that.

The economic framework that you're feeling, you talked to me about this many times, and I've just felt this from you for so long. It's really leaving the prison that so many people are in. Michelle, we're in one of the most pivotal times. We have technology exponentially growing. We have resource and abundance. We have everything we need. Yet it's assimilating it. It's getting it out there. It's. I think you even mentioned me before, that we are a bunch of blind lambs led and fed by the media. Every time I look at the news, it's a red text holder with white lettering, and then it's a black text holder with red lettering. It's like we are being so manipulated. I get triggered when I go in the gym. Now I can't even go to the gym without the TV just pouring poison down my throat and into my eyeballs. What is your mission with changing the economic framework, the way that we see and operate with money, this relationship with money. What's your ethos behind that?

Oh, wow, okay. Well, it's too bad Keith's not here, because this one is something we feel so super passionate about. You know, obviously, we believe that our system is really broken, that our system needs to be repaired, replaced, whatever. It's just not working. And the problem is, is that when you have so few people that have the majority of the money, that they're controlling all these things, and so many people don't see it and they don't understand, you know, if I could do anything for the entire world right this second that I would just have control and I could do it, it would be to turn off all the fucking TVs. Excuse my language.

I love it.

I would turn off all the TVs.

I'm just gonna say amen right now to what you just said. Can I get an amen to this? Oh, my God. Thank you.

I would turn off everybody's TV and I would say, no, you know what? You need to connect. You need to understand what's happening in your community, in your neighborhood, in your world that's actually surround you, what's happening. And you do that by connection, by getting involved, by doing these things, not sitting back on with your remote control and watching a TV that's telling you all these things that may or may not be true. And this is the other part of it, too, is now we also have to. Not only was it already hard to sift through the agenda and the propaganda and the bullshit that you saw on tv, but now we got fake news now we got to deal with. And then how do you deal with all of that? Well, I deal with it by not consuming it. I just don't consume any of it. What I do is I talk to people that are in the know that I. This is one of the reasons why I love Halo Effects is we have so many Educated people that come to paylofx that know things about what's going on, where I. You just. If you surround yourself by the people that will be able to give you the information that you need, you don't need tv, you. Nobody needs it. In fact, it's very detrimental to life.

Michelle, I remember I was at one of the speaking panels this year. I got the pleasure of being at your event, doing some podcast interviews and just getting, honestly, just feeling the ether of positivity and real progress in this world, not just through nutrition, but also through our way of being. And I remember Mark Angelo Coppola, he was on stage and he said, attention is the new currency. And it just washed over me. I was just like, wow, I feel like somebody just slapped me with the truth. Attention is the new currency. The attention that is under attack on our phones, on the Facebook feed, on the TVs, in the gym. Whatever it is, it takes the same kind of mindset in the way we eat to have that quality interaction of life. It's the same mindset when it comes to what we're not looking at, what we're not consuming from the media. If our attention is this new currency, what do you think that looks like in 2018?

I just think that's going to continue to explode. It's like, you know, everything is on social media now. You cannot get on Facebook without 20 ads popping up on the side. And, you know, and the thing is, is that that stuff works for the good stuff, too. So it's not. It's not all bad. Yeah, really understanding that at the end of the day, knowing that something happened in the world is one thing, but sitting over and over and allowing them to just consume you with, you know, we have these shootings and so sad that. But the problem is we would stop having these shootings if these people were not blown up. They end up becoming celebrities by default simply because there's just so much that's created around them. And even if they kill themselves, they still somehow see this as they become a celebrity. We go after and we chase and we look at and we analyze the wrong things. And so if you are, my thing would be, if you feel the need to watch the news, then do yourself a favor. For every minute that you watch the news, watch five minutes of something that's uplifting or read five minutes of something that's upllifting to counteract that one minute that you did damage. Because you can't watch the news and be uplifted. There's not anything uplifting. About anything on the news. It's very, very rare that you will see really good, uplifting stories on the news. So if you feel like you have to have the news, you've got to have it. For every minute you put into news, do five minutes of something that's positive and uplifting because you need to counteract that damage that's been done.

This is a huge takeaway, literally, for everyone, insert 5. Because we are this ancient body, right? We're under attack. We're also a spirit inside this ancient body. We're kind of half beast, half spirit, Michelle, where we have to respect both, right? So we have this ancient framework that gets alarmed if there's death around us, if there's tragedy, if there's drama. How have you stayed in tune with this, this year, especially as you've done your healing work, your journeys, has there anything that's been really top of mind or that's come up for you in your healing work with plants around creating this balance in so many tragedies, so many things that are going on right now.

Honestly, I think that there is this just big shift right now. I think there's a big paradigm shift of things that are happening. There's a lot going on in the world. And the problem is that when you watch tv, you watch the news or whatever, all you can think is this world is going to hell in a hand basket and it's going down fast. But in the grand scheme of things, that's why I say for every one minute you watch that, go find five minutes of good. Because at the end of the day, we still live in the safest time ever. The safest time ever. The biggest time of abundance, the biggest time of having the resources, the technology, Everything that we have far outweighs that. The problem is the way to control you is to make you scared, make you dependent, make you feel afraid, make you feel like you have to have something, someone protecting you because you can't do it yourself. Guess what? You're equipped with all of that. You don't have to have anything else protect you. What you need to do is protect you from that. Because what's happening, and I see this because I have friends that just actually yesterday got a message. With everything that's going on in the world, I'm afraid to go out, I'm afraid to go to places, I'm afraid to be in public. I'm afraid to. That's what they want. They want you afraid. That's control. That is the ultimate control.

Control and also being docile lambs. I remember When I think 911 happened, George Bush was like, don't let them win. How we can get through this is we'll just have you go shopping. Go ahead and go shopping. And I thought to myself, wow, I even knew it then. I was a younger person then. I think I was like 21 or 22 when that happened. And I just felt like something was wrong with that narrative. So the narrative you're creating with Paleo fx, the way that you're affecting this planet, it's your ripple effect in your pond. How are you directing attention towards that positive ripple with so many distracting things out there?

That's it at the end of the day is we want a place where people can come and they are with like minded people who are positive, that are uplifting, that you know, not that everything at Pillar Effects is positive. There's going to be negative things everywhere. By and large when you come to Pillow Effects it's a positive and uplifting event. But it's also gets you thinking, gets you critically thinking. So if there's anything negative that happens or whatever, it actually makes you a better, more critical thinker. It doesn't impact you negatively like the news does. What it will do is make you go, you know, I don't think I believe that. I'm going to have to really, I'm going to have to dive deep into that. I'm going to go and do my own research, I'm going to question that. And at the end of the day, that's all we're asking you to do is be a critical thinker. Question authority. And I mean that respectfully and legally. Yeah, question authority. We have that right. We don't just have the right. We actually have an obligation to that. And the thing is, is that we so much just gets let go because people believe that they don't have the power to do anything about any of it. That's bullshit. I mean that's, that's bullshit because attention is the currency. Are you giving it attention? Because if you are, then you are paying into it.

You're literally paying dollars with your bandwidth, with your eyeballs, with your brain. So then looking at how you started, you know, 2011, 2012, you really started out. What's changed for you as far as a fuel source? I mean we know that the way you shared about your daughter, like really, you know, I felt that in my chest and so I want to honor you for that. But is there another fuel source? Has the fuel changed to fuel you for 2018? Is it still the same energy that you pull from.

I mean, like, there's. Yes, she's. Brittany's still there. We still have her as this catalyst for the things that we do still. But in all honesty, yeah, the fuel source has changed quite a bit in just watching the impact that we are having on mainstream world. We are having an impact. And the thing is, that's a beautiful thing because like I said a minute ago, most people sit around and complain about things and say, well, you know, that needs to change. Well, that needs to change. But they sit back and expect somebody else to change it. You have the power to change it yourself. If you see that something needs to change, you need to be the one to get up and do something about it. Don't sit around and wait for somebody else, because you have all the power. You need to go do it. And the thing is, is that starts with your attention, because that is the number one currency. And next it is your actual currency, your currency. Where you spend your money, where you spend your time, where you spend your attention. All of these things all matter. At the end of the day, there are a lot of people that have. Have their thoughts and beliefs and what have you about. I'll just give this, for instance, Epic selling their company to General Mills. A lot of people were like, that's a sellout. That's a whatever. But this is what I counter on that with you, is that General Mills is a huge company. Dogs don't bark at things that they don't. They're not interested in. They don't. So if they're interested in this, there's something there. There's usually something there when a dog starts barking. So if they're paying attention and they're willing to stroke a $320 million check for a company that's Paleo, that has these beliefs, that has all of this, then they're seeing a change in the marketplace. And you can look at numbers from General Mills and General Foods and all of the different companies, serial numbers are falling. That's because of part of our movement, gluten free and Paleo, and all of us saying whole foods, no processed, eat real food. All of that. The real food movement is having an impact. Paleo is having an impact. Gluten free is having an impact with regard to these things. Because people are starting to understand that for them to be healthy, they can't keep eating non foods, Frankenfoods, all of this stuff. So when you see General Mills coming in and buying Epic, that means we're making an impact. And we're changing the landscape of all of that. So that started with two people, Taylor and Katie. And the thing is that they did an amazing job. They've held on to their, what is the creative control and quality control and all of these things in that company. They still run the company for General Mills. But at the end of the day, ultimately what will happen is General Mills will not change Epic, Epic will change General Mills, which means other companies, big companies like them, will follow suit. We're having an impact and this is.

Really big because it's not that General Mills was like, hey, we're going to try this out because we think it'll work. It was requested by consumers. It's actually a paradigm flip. Most people have a lot of anger, especially people that are in our health community or that may be conscious. They're angry at Monsanto, they're angry at General Mills, they're angry at Pepsi. Those companies are just doing what they need to do to fill their bottom line. So I fall into that trap myself, Michelle, where I'm like pissed off at the big food and the ivory towers. But I remind myself and all of us, we have to know this is true. It's how we spend our dollars. The most important thing that will shift these corporate policies is how we spend our money. That is the number one thing. So is there any guidance you can give to people about what types of things they should be purchasing? Can you give people maybe two or three things that they can really start putting their dollars to? When we look at food, the big.

One would be continue to ask for grass fed, continue to ask for grass fed meats, pastured meats, pastured eggs, pastured proteins. Continue to ask for that in the marketplace. Because if you're asking for it and you're willing to pay money for it, they're going to provide it because. But you have to keep asking. The problem is, is that if enough of us are doing it, you'll start seeing it. Why are we now seeing that Walmart has the biggest percentage of organic foods? Biggest producer or provider? I shouldn't say producer. Biggest provider of organic foods is Walmart. Walmart wouldn't do that unless there was a call for it, if there was a request for it. So Walmart is starting to have all of this on their shelves. And not, I'm not saying everybody go run to Walmart. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that's an impact. And so it's by asking, it's by requesting these Things that you want in your stores. There was two products that I wanted in the store that I go to. I went up and I asked them for them, and they're getting. Actually getting ready to start bringing them into that store.

Yeah.

If you ask for these things, if you ask for the stuff to be convenient for you in your store, if they know you're going to spend money on it and they get enough people asking for those things, these stores will start changing. You will start seeing grocery stores change to meet the needs of their consumers. Because at the end of the day, that's what they're there for. They want to meet your needs. They want to provide what you will pay money for, because they still have stockholders that they've got to take care of, and they still need their bottom line to be met. And if you're not buying cereal, they're going to start taking that crap off the shelves. My comment would be, or my. My recommendation would be, ask for the things that you want in your store. Ask for the things that you want. If they're not providing it, ask for the. All of the brands that you know that are good. This will help this movement. It will help these companies that you're willing to pay money for. It will help get them out there and being distributed to the mainstream public.

And I want to speak to that part of the brain that people might be fearful to ask for this, or they might not think it's a big deal, or they might even assume. Michelle. Well, what's one voice gonna do? Like, if I ask my store, or if it's one human asking for this change, it's not really gonna make an impact. That's how the system wants you to stay small, is by thinking that your voice won't matter at all. What do you have to say in that regard?

That's probably number one right there. Stop thinking. You don't matter. You matter. You have power. You just need to learn how to use it, and you need to be okay with using it. You need to be not just okay. You need to know that you not only have a right, but you kind of have an obligation. You have an obligation. If you want this world to change, you have to open up your mouth and stand up for what you believe in. And that may not be comfortable, and that's okay. The problem is, is that if we all just sit back, nothing will ever change. If we sit back and. And we keep our mouths shut and we just go, oh, well, they don't have this in my store. But I'll figure out wherever, start telling them, I'm not coming back to the store until you start having these things that are in here. You start having these brands that we like, like Epic and like Siete Foods and all of these things that we all enjoy. Guiltless Superfoods. Great. Y'. All. I'm not trying to single anybody out or keep anybody out because, gosh, we have so many, so many amazing things. The thing is, is that we've got to ask for them if we want them, if we want it to be convenient for us so that we don't have to do the online thing or we don't have whatever we need to ask for it.

Damn, Michelle, I feel like you are signaling out the wellness warrior and everyone listening right now. Let's shift a little bit here because there's many people that are tuning into the show and there may be a coach, a trainer, a therapist, just somebody in the health and wellness world. When we look at carving out their line of purpose, what is starting advice for people, People that maybe don't even have a website. And you yourself, you kind of waited till your kids were grown up, till you went into Paleo FX and creating Paleo fx. Was that a safety piece there? And could you explain maybe to somebody listening that wants to be part of this ripple, how they can begin, too?

Yeah. Okay, so this is my thing to you. Yes. We waited until our kids were grown and out of the house before we started on this road of entrepreneurism. Big mistake. Wouldn't do that ever again. Because at the end of the day, it would have been better for our children to see us struggle and to do something that we really believed in. And instead of holding down corporate jobs because we had kids in the house to pay bills and everything, at the end of the day, we're doing a big disservice because we need to empower our children and our children need to see that everything that they want to do is possible and that the first thing I'm going to tell you is if you are wanting to do something in this realm, in health, wellness, whatever the case may be, do not wait. Get yourself out there, whatever that looks like. If you need. It's super easy to put up a website and start blogging. It's so easy, you don't even have to blog if you don't want to. Now with Facebook lives and all of that stuff, you can get on Facebook and do Facebook lives and just start putting out content that lifts people up, that makes them feel better, that they want they crave they need. And don't wait until everything's perfect. It's kind of like, you know, oh, well, until we have money, we're not going to have kids. Well, guess what? Nobody's ever going to have enough money to have kids. Nobody. It doesn't matter who you are. You don't have. It's just the thing is that you have to do what you're passionate about now. Don't wait. And that the problem is we all sit around and wait and we have this fear and we also have the scarcity mindset. Well, there's already 20 people out there that are already doing that. And so I, you know, that it's just, it doesn't matter. You know what? There are hundreds and hundreds of leaders in the Paleo movement. And you want to know why there are hundreds? Because Rob Wolf doesn't speak to everybody. Chris Kresser doesn't speak to everybody. Melissa Hartwig doesn't speak to everybody. Sarah Ballantyne doesn't speak to everybody. You have to find your voice. And the thing is, is that your voice will resonate with somebody that doesn't resonate with someone else. And so there's a place at the table for everybody.

I think sometimes it's easy for people to forget this. I was in a plane a couple months ago and I was flying over the city, coming back in and I thought, there's 3 million plus people in San Diego. If even like 10% of those, we're wellness warriors, health and fitness pros. Whatever it is, it still wouldn't even be a fraction of what is needed in this country. There is always, as you said, room at the table. So thank you for just sharing this incredible wisdom with us. And I'm also inviting everyone right now on the podcast. Paleo FX is coming up in April. It's going to be my birthday weekend. So we'll be cheersing for my birthday some dry farm wines. Maybe tell people about this event this year. Like, what are you just lit on fire about for Paleo FX this year?

I am super excited. We have a lot of changes coming for this year. I think that everybody's going to be really happy with what we're doing and I super excited. We have JJ Virgin coming for the first time. We have Dr. Joseph Mercola coming for the first time. I'm working on some others. We'll see. The thing is, is that we are. I can't even tell you how excited I am about having these new people come in for them to see. I'm more excited for them to see what we've done at Bailiff X, for them to meet these people that they have an impact on, for these people to get a chance to meet them. And so that's the part that gets me really excited, is for them to kind of see what happens at this event and how people just come together. And really there's bonds that are formed, there's business that's done, there's networking, there's all kinds of stuff that really take place at this event that it's, it's a fun event, it's educational, it's uplifting. At the end of the day, it's going to make you think, it's going to make you start really thinking critically about everything that you're told and everything that you hear and make you really question whether or not does this resonate with me? Is this real? Is this something that really, truly has an impact on me? And if it doesn't have an impact on you, goodbye, you're dismissed. I don't need that information because that information is not impactful or personal for me. And I just feel like you people are. You just got to be there to really experience what PaleoFX is all about. And it is a three day Paleo party. It is so fun.

And it's not just for people that are interested in nutrition, because I see you, I see what you and Keith are doing. This is a health and wellness Trojan horse. You get people interested in the food and the lifestyle and you get them there and then they end up healing themselves, which is really that ripple we've talked about on the show today that helps change the world. This is the last part of the show. It's seven fast questions for seven of Michelle's truths. Are you ready?

Yes.

The very first question that I think about when I look at you is authenticity. We talked about it in the very first section of the show. Authentic selves, authenticity. How do we do this? What are two things that people can do to stay authentic in a world that wants to strip them of that constantly?

I would say always understand how unique you are. And at the end of the day, whatever you have within you, whatever gifts that you were born with, those are unique to you and you need to operate with those gifts and that is authenticity. If you are true to who you are and always question whether or not something really resonates with you, don't just go along with something because you do. And the thing is, I'm not preaching at you, I'm with you because I've done It. And I've gone with the crowd. Even when I didn't, things didn't seem right to me. And it's a hard thing to do, is to stand on your own, but it's probably one of the best things you'll ever do. And it'll make you feel so much better about who you are and what you believe in and the fact that you will stand on your own and not worry about what other people think when you're doing the right thing for you.

Why did you put in writing? And really, a message that you put out there is you can always find beauty among the ashes. What does that mean to you?

So that really, really, truly comes from having lost Brittany. We see all the beauty that's happened from her loss. We see the people that she's impacted. We see the. And not just her impact when she was alive, but her death impacted people in a very positive way. You know, this is the thing when we have. When we have a loss or something like that, it gives us a perspective that we didn't have before, but that has continued on and on and on. When her story gets told, it still has an impact on people, and people still resonate with what's happened and resonate with how things went down for her. And so that's why I say everything comes from either nothing or comes from ashes. You're going to find beauty from both of those places. And the thing is, is that I think that when you look for positive out of every. There is positive in everything. There's not a single thing that you can look at and go, oh, well, that's just nothing but negative. Like everything that's going on right now in Hollywood between the, you know, me too situation and everything, at the end of the day, things will change for the better out of that situation. And yes, it sucked for everybody that was involved and that everybody that was hurt and all of those things. But the positive that will come from that is change. And it will be positive change. And we need to honor that and stop worrying about the victimization or the things. What we need to do is uplift those people so that we don't continue to have victims in this world. The problem is that we get this victim mentality. We think, that happened to me. That happened to me. That happened to me. No, that happened in your life. It didn't happen to you. It was part of your life experience. What are you going to go from there? How are you going to respond from there? I've said this before. We have no control over Anything except one thing. And that's if we respond or we react, response is intentional and mindful reaction is not. And the problem is the majority of the time people react. And I've total been there, done that, been doing that, have to work on that one all the time. The thing is that if we all start really, really truly understanding that all we can control is our response, or if we react and we all start being mindful and try to actively respond, this world would be a whole lot better. A whole lot better. And taking that and that response is not allowing ourselves to be victims by anything that happens in our lives. And saying, that happened to me, that takes away your power. You become a victim. You have no power.

Even the way you've cultivated this, though, is through your healing journeys. I remember Aubrey Marcus, episode 123, which we'll link in the show notes. He mentioned plant medicine, Ayahuasca. It's not for everyone. Do you share that same opinion about plant medicine? Or do you believe that in some form, some type of plant journey is for everyone? What are your thoughts on that?

There's a saying, and I'm going to probably mess this up. The thing is that I believe that plant medicine is for everyone, but everyone is not for plant medicine. Because in order to really understand how plant medicine works and for it to work for you, you have to be ready, willing and able to do the work. And the thing is, is that so many people do not want to put themselves in an uncomfortable situation and don't want to be uncomfortable, period. The thing is, is that those that choose to get uncomfortable and look inside themselves, because that's what you're doing with plant medicine, is you are looking at yourself. And this is the problem too, is that you're not just looking at yourself in the plant medicine in negative ways. A lot of it comes out negative because we're searching to become higher, higher intelligence, higher consciousness, being the best version of ourselves that we can possibly be. And that means taking a good, long, hard look at who we really are and where we are not being authentic, where we're not contributing, where we're not being impactful, we're not being positive. We're not in this world and changing that. And so, like I said, I believe plant medicine is for everyone, but everyone is not for plant medicine.

What's one of the biggest things, Michelle, that you've let go of then, in doing this work? I mean, you've shared so many things with us today about this, but is there one that bubbles to the top of just something you really just let go of. Just really let go to the past.

That would be the illusion of control. Is that need for control or believing that you have some kind of real control? The problem is, is that we truly don't have it. But the want for it or the need or the desire for control or what we think is control is letting that go.

What is your ultimate dream for Paleo fx? What do you want to see happen in the next, you know, by 20, 23 years from now? What would you want to see happen with this ripple? How big do you want the ripple to be?

I want pillow effects to be so big that we have to, we have to be like south by. It's got to run for a couple of weeks. That's what I would like to see. I would like to see it become so big that we have to do that. And then I want to see it go worldwide. I want it to be global. And I know that that will happen. We're just working on the infrastructure to make it happen.

Well, everyone's going to join me listening for my birthday at PaleoFX in Austin. It's going to be so much fun. So we'll link that in the show notes. But last question, and with, with everything that you've accomplished, the thresholds you've gone through, Michelle, how do you believe wellness is for you now? What's your definition of wellness in your life? How do you see that?

Honestly, it's honoring, honoring myself, honoring who I am, honoring my body and doing what is good for my body and good for my health at the end of the day. Because I've not always done that. I've not always chosen that, like not choosing to sleep or choosing to eat foods that are not good for me and that ultimately I pay for that price. And the problem is I will ultimately pay long term. So I would say it would be honoring my body and myself.

Michelle, thank you for coming on the show, sharing your gifts, your authenticity, and just honestly being this beacon, this reminder to people that it's okay to feel, it's okay to do the inner work. And actually it's what we need to do in order to heal the world by healing ourselves. So you can learn more@paleofx.com, michelle, so appreciate you and your work.

Thank you so much. It was such a joy to be on the show today.

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