175 Mark Shapiro: The Art of Authentic Connection

I realized that I needed to take responsibility for my life and the choices that I was making. And I really saw how my creativity had been shrinking and how that whole box that I was living in was getting smaller and smaller and smaller. That's when I really chose to take responsibility and to take action for the things that I truly wanted most. So those dreams, those ideas that I'd be telling myself in my head when I started actually believing it and taking steps one at a time, courageously, naturally, over time, I started feeling empowered. I realized that when I was honoring my authentic truth and voice, that built confidence and built momentum.

That's Marc Shapiro and this is episode 175 of Wellness Force Radio.

What's up my friend?

It's your host, Josh Trent. And welcome back to another episode for your weekly access to global experts in all things wellness as we discover the physical and emotional intelligence we need to live life well. In this episode, we're talking with my friend TEDx speaker and podcast host Marc Shapiro about the art of authentic connection and its relationship to our emotional intelligence. Now, why this is so fascinating, what's most intriguing about this upcoming conversation is that authenticity. It's kind of a buzzword right now. I'm sure you hear about this all the time online, but truly being authentic and connecting with yourself first, then other people has never been more challenging than right now. With the rise of social media and where you see the highlight reels from everybody's life on their green screen lens for just the best of the best vacations around the world, not ever showing those intimate moments where we're all perfectly imperfect, these things don't get shared. Now this aspect of only seeing the highlight reels is actually degrading our ancient brain's perception and tapping into the signals that cue our brain for fomo or fear of missing out, as well as so many other psychologically challenging things that honestly, our society is struggling to figure out right now. So if you've ever dealt or dealing with FOMO for being your most authentic self in social situations, the art of authenticity, this conversation is going to be perfect timing for you. And in this moment right here, right now, it's the perfect time for you to take a deep breath. It might be the first time you've done it all day, but this is your breath break. Put your hands on your belly, take a deep breath, and just know that all wellness starts with our breath, followed by the foods and micronutrients we eat. Which is why I'm so stoked to give a huge shout out to our show sponsor Organifi, creators of Organifi Green juice. But it's not actually juice, it's powder. It's slow dried to maintain its nutrient density and bioavailability. This green juice was built for people like you and me that live this fast paced lifestyle. Parents, professionals, anyone really who tends to feel the afternoon slump the 2 to 3pm energy crash, but does not want to have have another cup of coffee. This has been a total lifesaver for me, especially as I'm traveling. I throw two packets of Organifi in my computer bag and I'm all good to travel with my Spirulina, Ashwagandha and all the other adaptogens that give me more energy. So don't wait another minute. If you've been curious about giving this a test drive to get more energy in your day, hop over to organifyshop.com, enter code wellnessforce to save 20% off not just your green juice but the entire order. That's organifishop.com use code wellnessforce for 20% off today. And today I have a question for you. You don't have to answer right now, but let this sink into your subconscious mind. What can social media be for you? How can you use social media to practice your art of being authentic and really listen to what's going on inside of your mind? Well, coming up right now with Marc Shapiro, we're talking about this as well as why he left Showtime Networks to create the Are youe Being Real Company and workshops. What Mark believes are are the three biggest social media fails. How you can authentically communicate with others through digital tools, the power of voice and video when it comes to real human connection. Why you don't have to feel afraid of allowing yourself to feel anger as well as the other full palette of emotions. How these are actually tools for you to let those emotions go by actually feeling them. I got to interview Mark live in person at his house in Los Angeles. Now let's step in to this dynamic conversation right here, right now with Marc Shapiro.

This is Josh Trent. I'm recording live at the house and studio of Marc Shapiro. He is the podcast host of the one and only podcast. Also he's a TEDx speaker which we're going to talk about his talk the Art of really Just Authentic Relating, authentic connection. And he's also a social experimenter, which is the first time I've heard this term man. Mark, share with us. What exactly is a social experimenter?

I'm still figuring that out. Social experimenter So I love to do social experiments on vulnerability, connection and community. So those are pretty much the three criteria and that's pretty much how I've chosen my work. So the podcast, the one and only, is an experiment in vulnerability and openness and letting ourselves be seen. So I just had you on my podcast and asked you a bunch of thought provoking personal questions, challenging questions, questions.

That made me take a deep breath. So I'm going to try to do service to you as well today. You know, on wellness first, we always talk so much, Mark, about this emotional intelligence and how that relates to the physical. You have done plenty of work. We actually both did a training together early on. I interviewed Michael Strasner and that was. Was he your instructor as well in Mitt or was you have a different.

One of many.

But yes, one of many. So go back, we'll link that in the show notes. You have this incredible story, man. Over a decade working for Showtime. People know Showtime, sports, movies, anything you can imagine. But you made this huge leap in the past couple years. I want to dive into that story a little bit before we explore like this real authentic relating that is so needed on the planet right now. What actually got you working for Showtime? Did you wake up when you were a kid and like, I want to work for Showtime?

I went to Emory University in Atlanta and I was in business school and I wanted to stay in Atlanta for the summer. And I was applying for a summer internship and I was looking for an internship in either sports or entertainment because those were my two greatest passions. And I saw on Emory's Internet that there was a job posting at Showtime network. So I immediately got the. I know Showtime, Showtime is cool. And I applied for an internship at Showtime and I got the gig and put in a good three months that summer at Showtime. And when I graduated from Emory later that year, a job had opened up a full time position and because I had excelled as an intern that I got this opportunity to get a full time gig in sales and marketing at Showtime. And for me, the reason why I was attracted to Showtime, I said that I was interested in entertainment, but I wanted to be part of the creative side. Yeah, you know, I wanted to be picking the next great show, the next Dexter, the next Weeds. So those shows actually hadn't been on the air yet. But you get the idea when you want to be.

Did you have the same fire like.

Yeah, I did. I always wanted to create. I go to so many movies as a kid and I always wanted to be in content development.

I Think that's.

That's why I picked Showtime.

It's unique about you because, like, we're here in your home in L. A. There's always been this. Just obviously, Tinseltown. We're in Hollywood, right? There's always been this theatrical kind of creative vibe here. When I look at how many life coaches, spiritual development, personal development coaches, you're not any of those. You're a social experimenter. Even your podcast that we recorded right before, this was an experiment. You even said that during the interview. This curiosity, this fire, if you go back to when you were a kid, who brought that out of you? Did your parents support your curiosity?

My brother did. My brother was very charismatic. He still is. And he would, like, pull me out on stage with him, and so we'd sing and we'd dance, and it would be super goofy. And that's where I think that passion for entertainment really came into my life. And then I put it on the shelf, essentially, because I worked at Showtime, but I wasn't doing entertainment. I was in sales and marketing, and I was there for 12 years. So I was very detached from why I was even at Showtime in the first place.

I think a big part of anyone listening can relate to this because we've all had careers that eventually there's just, like, stale bread on the counter. Like, we know we gotta eat it, we know we gotta do it, but there's just no joy. There's just no enjoyment. So did you reach a culmination point? Was there, like, one threshold looking backwards where you're like, you know what? I knew in this moment that I was done. Like, I had experienced enough pain or was it more cumulative for you to actually transition to some of the programs, some of the healing that you do now, some of the work you do now, both.

So I think, first, I'm a dreamer and a visionary. I call myself a visionary. And when I first got that job at Showtime, my idea was, all right, great. I've got my foot in the door. I'm going to learn as much as possible, and at some point, I'm going to pivot over to the creative side of the organization. Well, that's easier said than done. And just because I'm excelling in sales and marketing doesn't mean that I'm going to be able to make a lateral move from a manager in sales and marketing to a manager in development. No, you got to learn the ropes from the bottom up. And so I was really good at what I did and that I'd get promoted every Couple of years. So for me, once I moved out to LA from Atlanta and transferred from Showtime's Atlanta office to LA office that if I would have wanted to get into development, I would have had to start over from scratch. And I think I was already making 50, 60 grand at the time and I didn't want to take a 50% pay cut with no guarantees.

It takes me back to the moment we talked about on your show, which we'll link in the show notes today. Just such a rad conversation about the truth. How do we get there as quickly as possible? We talk about this so much. And your truth in that moment was like, yeah, this just isn't working anymore. I experienced the same thing in a cubicle. Money was up, abundance was up financially, yet spiritual suicide was happening. Did you feel like a part of you was dying?

I didn't even know it. Is the answer now. I always wanted to be on the development side, like I said. And I'd come up with all these ideas. I had this document with probably 50 different ideas that I had for the organization. Some of them were creative ideas, some of them were new revenue generating ideas for the business. And I had so much fun putting these together and flushing them out. And then one day, once I felt they were ready, I decided to share them with my boss who was in sales and marketing. And she was like, great, why are you sharing these with me? And I'm like, well, because I think that they'd be great opportunities for the company. And she was like, didn't know what to do because that wasn't my job. And Showtime wasn't a place at least at that point in time. I can't speak. So what it's like today, I've been gone for two and a half years, but there wasn't that idea or belief that anyone in the company could come up with the next great idea. Now, not to say that one of those business ideas would have been the next multimillion dollar business, probably, no, maybe they wouldn't have been. But there wasn't even an opening or a possibility for that. So I'd say that that was the first time I looked in the mirror and I was like, huh, Maybe this dream of mine isn't possible in terms of at some point making the leap from the business side to the development side. And then there were more examples of that. And it really. I can't put the blame on any person in particular, but I'd say that it was the nature of the corporate environment. And Showtime at the time was very Much a corporate culture.

Yeah.

On the consumer facing side of the brand, you know, the tagline was no limits or brace yourself, like really bold, like self expressive taglines. Yet internally it was just another corporate culture. And ultimately, you know, as a result of some other things that were going on in my life and the fact that I stopped watching television entirely, I just kind of realized the reason I was staying at Showtime was out of A, safety and B, it was kind of an ego play because I was making good money and because I had a good title. And I felt like if I was ever going to leave Showtime, I'd want to leave as high as I possibly could be on the ladder because I built all these relationships that it was just. There was a lot to lose in my opinion, if I were to leave.

You just hit gold because people want to jump. It's almost like there's the dream boat on the left and then there's the current responsibilities on the right. And everyone wants the boats to be as close as possible before they actually make the jump.

Of course. Yeah.

Because then they don't end up in the ocean and drowning. So that's a real thing. And I don't want to placate anyone that's thinking about making a choice of how to change my career from something I have to do to something that I really love, something that I really want to do. That's a big thing. And you explore so much on your podcast, man. And then all the work you put out, Even in your TEDx talk, just this art of being authentic, being real, actually listening to what's going on inside. How did you listen to what was going on inside that made you go from the safe corporate environment to actually doing the dream? Like what. What did that voice direct you to do?

The voice has always been there. And you know, we all have these voices in our heads that sometimes are telling us we're the greatest in the world and we're so loved and other times, you know, beating the crap out of ourselves. And both of those voices and I guess standpoints are both very real for me. I've experienced both sides of the spectrum and I still do. When I was at Showtime, though, since I was for so long, I just didn't know any other way. And I felt because I continued just to go to work every day and put my head down and do the best that I could do, that my creative box was shrinking. I always had high ambitions for myself. But if I were to leave Showtime, I would have had no idea what other, what I would do. Like, I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but what kind of product or service could I come up with? All I know how to do is to launch a great Showtime marketing campaign. So after I got divorced five years ago, I did the Mitt training, which you referenced, and that was huge for me because I realized that I needed to take responsibility for my life and the choices that I was making. And I really saw how my creativity had been shrinking and how that whole box that I was living in was getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And that's when I really chose to take responsibility and to take action for the things that I truly wanted most. So those dreams, those ideas that I'd be telling myself in my head from saying to myself, oh, this is just the flavor of the day. And after today, it's going to be lost and gone forever, because there's no way that I'm ever going to be able to implement that because I'm a Showtime marketing guy. When I started actually believing it and taking steps one at a time, courageously, naturally, over time, I started feeling empowered. I realized that when I was honoring my authentic truth and voice, that it built confidence and built momentum and that it was just one step at a time. And I ultimately realized that perhaps there was a life after Showtime. And I set a deadline on June 30th of 2015. And I told myself, if I don't get this promotion that I'm going for to become a Vice President by June 30th of 2014-2015, then I was going to leave Showtime. And ultimately, that was a powerful declaration because I didn't even make it a year. I ultimately left in April of 2015 to launch the podcast.

How important is it? Whether it's letting go of weight or achieving something personally or professionally, how important is it to actually claim a date and declare, like, by this date, I will have this thing, I will do this thing. I will be this person? I don't think there's anything more important. I mean, how do you feel about actually claiming a date? When we look at being ourselves, being this authentic human, how do we be authentic if we don't? Like, we need the accountability. So how important is.

That's the key word. I think it's great to pick a date. And dates can be a huge guiding star for you. If there is something. If you want to get your dream relationship by a certain date or you want to clean your bedroom by a certain date, it can be anything small or large, whatever goal that you have and the date that you Pick. It's only as important and it's only as real as you make it. So I could have just set that date and then forgot about it, but I kept reminding myself of that date. And because I'd remind myself of that date, it got my mind thinking, all right, if I don't get promoted, I want to have some kind of action plan in place. And fortunately, at the same time, I was doing more and more of those emotional intelligence workshops at mitt. And one of them, the final exam, was to create and facilitate your own workshop. And I created a workshop on authenticity because I had realized that when I had honored that authentic voice, that desire, both in terms of living my dreams and speaking my truth from moment to moment, that it was so rewarding time and time again. So I created this workshop. People are making changes in their lives as a result of a three hour workshop. 50 people showed up, which was, like, huge feedback for me. I was terrified that no one would show up. And because of the results, I realized that I had something. So a couple minutes ago, I was sharing that. When I worked at Showtime, I wanted to do something else, but had no idea what I was capable of. But I was constantly taking steps in terms of my own personal development outside of Showtime, doing the workshops, doing that, facilitating that authenticity workshop that I realized, wow, I am capable of something else and I've just created something. And so that's when the light bulb went off. How can I share this with more people? Podcast.

Oh, my gosh. And this, for me, it's like, not a similar journey because yours is yours, but we all know that there's like a twist in a turn, and then there's thresholds, and then there's a plan that we might have, but then we get punched in the face, which, like, I think Mike Tyson was like, we all got a plan. We get punched in the face, right? You did get punched in the face, but it wasn't from something that you did. It was because your father had been suffering for, I think, a decade or more from early adult onset Alzheimer's. And so in the process of your transformation, you deal with the loss of your father. And so we've talked about loss on the show before. Like, this is a real human thing. This is a universal thing we all deal with. You're growing, you're making this transition. You had been through divorce, and then on top of that, you were forced to deal with this loss of your dad. Like, how did you do that?

My dad was sick for so long. And thank you for you Know, honoring my dad and, you know, bringing him up, it's so important. Whenever I even hear or think about him, it. It touches me on such a profound, soulful level. My dad's a huge inspiration to me. He passed like 14 months ago, I think, but he was sick for so long with Alzheimer's that it became normal for me that I didn't even like it was just the way my life was. So I don't even look at that as necessarily an extra variable in the equation because that was pretty much the status quo in my life for so many years. But things were definitely shaken up when my marriage ended. And that between that and my dad being sick, I think I was really looking for an answer. And fortunately, by doing things differently than I had before. So that was being open to self development. That was taking the steps that I hadn't even known were available to me for so many years when I was just showing up to work every single day and then going home and watching TV every night. To me, the possibility of this kind of current life that I'm living now wouldn't have been possible if I just kept doing what I was doing. It was really opening up my eyes and expanding my perspective to something new. That ultimately led me to taking additional steps, which gave me more clarity, which led to creating that workshop and then the podcast.

Do you feel like Alzheimer's, specifically the adult onset early, is something that not a lot of people know about? I mean, some of the work you put out is around awareness and getting people to be this best version of themselves. Do you feel like the awareness of Alzheimer's is something that gets to rise in our country, in our world for sure.

And I think it's going to happen inevitably because people are living longer and more and more people are suffering from the disease. It's crazy how many people have it. And I believe that it's expected to triple in the next 20 years from like 15 million to 50 million. Don't quote me on the math, but it's somewhere in there. So if you don't have someone in your family with Alzheimer's, and this just isn't young onset Alzheimer's like my dad had, that's a very rare case. But more and more people, their lives are being touched by Alzheimer's, whether someone in your family or somebody that you know of, friends or transparent. And it's not just a disease about forgetfulness, that's actually only the first step. But if you can imagine what it's like to start losing your memory all of a Sudden, like, you're going to start being treated differently by other people in the world because people are going to realize that your memory isn't as good. Right?

Yeah.

So that's what I saw firsthand with my dad, is he knew that he was losing his memory or that something was changing and it was affecting his social situations with other people. And then he was just trying to cover it up. And then other people don't know how to communicate with him. They didn't know how to communicate with my mom. They didn't know how to support. And ultimately, what happens with Alzheimer's, it's a deteriorating disease. There's no treatment. There's no way to slow it down. There's no cure. Of course, eating healthy food isn't going to hurt, but once you have Alzheimer's, it's going to be a downward slope one way or the other, no matter how fast or slow it happens. And ultimately, my dad forgot how to breathe. You know, it was over the course of 18 years, but, like, literally, he shut down and it was like, you know, a slow process of him losing himself. Now, I don't want to be, like a huge downer, but that is the reality of Alzheimer's disease.

Well, thank you for sharing that, man, because it made all of us take a deep breath, listening. And I think the power behind this is almost like a sense from you that I get that possibly his passing through fuels you in the way that you authentically connect and remind other people of what's important. And I think the transition here is pretty easy. It's like, you know, your TEDx talk. You're talking about how social media is this one side of the sword where we connect, yet the other side of the sword is where we're so disconnected. Depression is up. A study was published by the NIH since 1990. Depression is up 400% since 1990.

Why did you do this TED Talk?

Is it in any way fueling from either the depression epidemic or from the fuel from Alzheimer's and your dad?

It's definitely the latter. It's definitely as a result of my dad passing away. So the story, as I tell in the TEDx talk, is my dad passed away and people were hitting me up with text messages, and I made a post about it on my Facebook. And by far and away, the most likes and most comments of any Facebook post I made all of last year. And I know my dad was going to pass away for so long, but when he finally did, it was like, wow, this is. This is real. This is A life moment, you know, someone. My dad, who's been in my life all of my life is now gone. And I'm getting all these messages and I want to respond to people. How do I authentically communicate to them? And, you know, I looked at the vast amount of messages and there were a lot. And I think, like, I had written a couple people back just sending them texts and responding to their Facebook messages, and I was like, spending so much time on each message crafting out these words, and I'm like, oh, this is painful. So instead, I took out my phone and I hit record and I started sending personalized voice messages to crap ton of people. Like so many people. And it was therapeutic for me to sit and be like, hey, thank you so much for thinking of me. Your friendship means so much to me. It's a really weird time right now. I knew this day was coming, and I'd tell them my experience and I'd leave maybe a 30 to 45 second message. Now, before I started doing those voice memos, when I was replying to people, sometimes a message would take me five minutes to write out. And I think we can all relate. Sometimes when you're going to write someone on social media or write an email out that it takes. It takes forever sometimes to craft the perfect words. So what I realized is that not only was it quicker to send people these voice messages, but it was actually super therapeutic for me. I felt great sharing and speaking from my heart. And then the response was also amazing. People felt closer to me because they could hear my voice, they could understand what I was going through. And at the same time, I was like, this is so powerful. I don't want it like that. Now that I've kind of responded to everyone who I wanted to respond to, like, I don't want to just, like, let this go. And I think it just, like, clicked, like the next day, maybe the next week, I was writing a wall post for someone on their birthday, and who knows what I was going to say? And I decided, you know what? I'm going to send this person a personalized video message. And then I got really excited because that was a lot of fun. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna send every single one of my Facebook friends a personalized video message on their birthday. So then the next day, I look at whose birthdays they are, and I'm like, maybe I'll start tomorrow. And I didn't do it. And then the next day I was like, this could be pretty cool. I wonder what would happen if I sent every one of my Facebook friends a personalized video. So I committed to it. And to this day, which it's been well over a year, I've sent a personalized video to every single one of my Facebook friends on their birthdays. Now, this is everyone, Josh, from my brother to someone who I have no idea who they are.

Yes. And I think the power of this is like, this is actually one of the biggest reasons, if not the reason why we're sitting here, why I felt your authentic voice just reach out to me through a video. I'm like, who's Mark Shapiro? I didn't really, really know who we were until we connected through your outreach of this video. And I think this is the double edged sword of Social Man. And this is what you talked about in your TEDx. There is different aspects. There's three different components. And one of them was being falsified. The other one is like, you know, fomo, like, what am I missing out on? Because we see all these people's stuff, like we get the highlight reels of everyone's life and it creates existential angst inside of the body. And I think so many people can relate to this. And then there's.

I definitely can relate. I mean, that was my truth and it still is my truth at times.

And there's another piece too, where, you know, along with this double edged sword, there's these power to connect and fomo, but there's also a third aspect and it's having people that just straight up lie, like they literally just tell complete and total fabrications on social, which completely transcend the FOMO aspect. So we all know about this. We've been talking about this more and more on Wellness Force. Mark, you know, technology has the power to harm or heal. In your talk though, you list these three segments. I'd love for you to go over these three segments again. Sure.

Well, there's so many social media fails and I've made every single one of them. And I wanted to make the talk like really concise and tight. And I only listed out three of the social media fails at the start because I would have been here all day. Right. Like saying all the things, but like, you know, a few of them is over sharing. And I've definitely done that. Another one that I have in there is straight up envy, which you alluded to the envy comparison game. You know, seeing other people generate the results that you want or just straight up jealousy that someone's getting married or that they've got kids or Whatever it may be, Those were some of my truths after I got divorced. And then there's also. We project this image of ourselves that we want other people to see. And maybe part of that is true, but there's usually more to the picture than that, because no one is happy. No one is hanging out with celebrities all the time. Life has a balance, and life has contrast. And so one of the things that I share in the talk is about phoniness, and I definitely have exhibited that behavior before, and I share it in the talk. But I have this Instagram handle, ryoubeingreal, and when I first launched the handle and started this podcast and I had zero audience, I'm like, how do I get this message out there to more people? How do I grow this business? I chose to use a bot, an Instagram bot, where I essentially bought followers for an account called Are youe Being Real?

This is like the most ironic sentence.

Yeah.

In this podcast. So what made you actually come out and admit that on the talk? Like, why did you think that was so valuable for people to know about you?

To me, vulnerability and openness is everything, and that is what allows us to understand each other. And to me, the Happy birthday message and sending everyone birthdays, like, it's way more than just about wishing someone a happy birthday. It's not actually about birthdays. It's about human connection. Right. It's like, if I chose to be Facebook friends with someone, it means that they provided some value for me at some part of my life. Maybe it was just out at a party once, we shared a smile, and one of the two of us added the other person on Facebook. It could have been as small as that, Josh. It could have been as small as someone just, like, adding me. And they look cool, and I accepted them. Like, it could be something as small as that, but they still added some sort of value. And to me, it's acknowledging that. And in this world, where there is contrast, you know, there is fear. We all have insecurities, we all have doubts, and we all want one thing, and that is love. And to me, taking 15 seconds to acknowledge somebody else's existence or the value that they provide in my life, I don't care if it's my best friend or a person, like I said, who I don't remember where I even met them, I can still give that person love. And I think we can all relate. It's amazing to have our Facebook feeds flooded with posts on our birthdays. How many of those posts do you actually see? How many of those actually really land and touch your heart. I'm guessing ones that just say happy birthday, you probably don't even notice them. Yeah, and a 15 second video is like, goes against the norm. Right? It's super personal, it's creative and it's meaningful. And the results speak for themselves. 70% of people reply to me and a lot of people will ask me like, well, is that just like, is your whole life this birthday experiment? I'm like, no, not at all. I average about, like there's seven birthdays a day about. And it takes me five minutes. I'm not telling the person, like, hey, I haven't seen you in eight years. Please, like, let's, let's schedule a Skype call and catch up. I'm not asking for that. I'm simply saying I see that it's your birthday. You know, I really had a fun time with you that one night out in Denver four years ago and we randomly met when I was on a business trip. And I hope you're doing well.

But I think what you're touching on is the scariness of being truly seen. Yeah, that's really what this is. Like, most people will write a birthday card or we've all gotten like, you know, an email message. Writing a handwritten card feels pretty awesome. But what you're doing is the next level. But that's the ultimate challenge. And I feel like there's so much in our society right now around being happy. Everyone must be happy. You know, we talked with Christine Hassler on the show and it was like, there's no such thing as positive vibes only. That's not real life. This getting a message though, a video message where you're like vulnerable in this moment and you're, you're saying, I'm going to send you a message. I'm not going to be in my head. I'm just going to come from my heart for a minute and just give you a 15 second kudos on your birthday. This is actually a muscle that people's brains get to grow. In this age of connectivity where. Let's talk about the other side, where it actually disconnects us. Do you feel like this is a movement that could possibly grow or do you want it to just be something that you do? What do you think about how this could affect people? You know, sending that 15 second message to not just people on their birthday? Yeah, but how about just to people you haven't connected with in a while?

It goes back to the point that this is a social experiment and how amazing are our phones? Like, let me just take a second to ask you that, right? Like, how much has your phone changed your life?

It's like a love hate, right? Love hate, for sure.

The ability to access information and to be in touch with pretty much anyone in the world at any point in time is like, holy moly. We've never had this in the history of mankind, and we have it today in our hands. And our smartphones are 10 years old. We are just scratching the surface as to how to best utilize them. And the way that we're all using them today is the status quo. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to use them. Like all this Envy game, projecting out these avatars, taking a break from our work and spending what we Hope will be five minutes ends up being 30, 40 minutes. The average person's on their phone over four hours a day. So to me, this experiment is about what can social media ultimately be? And the way I see it is that we can either waste time on our phones or on social media, or we can invest our time in social media. And that's what this birthday experiment is about is investing in the relationships, investing, you know, investing my time and giving my time, giving my energy, giving my love away to others.

I heard a quote a couple weeks ago from Gary Vaynerchuk, which, I mean, love him or hate him, he's kind of successful for a reason now. And I think this one of the powerful things that's ever come out of his mouth. He's like, technology just makes you who you already are. So if you're already an asshole, then technology is just gonna magnify that. If you're someone that hides in life and you don't want to be seen, well, people will know from your feed of your highlight reel from your trip to Tahiti that that's all you want people to see, but you don't actually want people to see your deepest, darkest secrets. You don't want people to see your vulnerability. Sure. How do you think we can be conscious in our vulnerability? This is a really big question, man. I gotta dump it on you right now, please. There's one side of consciousness, there's one side of vulnerability. How do we know intuitively what to post, what not to post? Do you have guidelines that you think can help us grow and help us be more emotionally intelligent about how we use social media?

Yeah, I think before you push post to ask yourself, why are you posting this and who is it for? Right. Sometimes I'll make posts and it's just because I want to brag about where I'm at and, like, that's honest. All own that. And I think we can all relate to that. You know, and sometimes there's. You'll see people make posts that are pointing the finger at you and saying, you should do this. You should live your life this way. And it's like, really, like, you want me to live my life this way? Is that just you wanting to be heard? So I think, you know, there's a lot of different ways that you can slice and dice it. And I'm certainly an advocate for openness and vulnerability, and I'm also an advocate for privacy. I'm also an advocate for boundaries. I don't want to hear the next time that you're gonna go drop a deuce, like, for example. That's like, I don't care to know that. Right? So I'm not advocating.

Yeah, please don't tell us.

I'm not. I'm not advocating radical, radical transparency, radical honesty, because that to me is the extreme when I drill it down. And the reason why I'm doing this, and this is a fundamental piece of what my vision is for the world. And I want to live in a world where more people are open and honest, because I believe that if we're open and honest with each other, we can actually understand each other. And when you were on my show, we talked about this iceberg analogy, that most of the iceberg is under the water. And if you look at that as an analogy for us as human beings, that we only let other people see just a fraction of us, and if we lower the water levels, people can get more of the picture and a better understanding of who we are. And if people have a better understanding of who we are, they can better support us.

So everybody's wondering right now, Mark, how do we lower the water levels?

That's what this is all about. So it's like, it's. So it's. It's going to your edge and sharing a little bit more of what you're up to, what your challenges are. I think that's a great place to start. And let me push pause on this, because I want to finish that other thought, and then I'll get to something about sharing challenges and support, because I think it's really important. But if we are open and honest with each other, we can better understand each other. If we can better understand each other, we can better support each other. Right? If we better support each other, we're going to be Living in a world where more people are thriving. And that's the kind of world that I want to live in.

Me, too.

So getting back to what to share, to share more of yourself. And usually the things people don't share a lot about are personal things that they're going through. And I'm not necessarily saying you have to share it all on the Internet. I think it's a great invitation that if you're going through something that is challenging for you to talk about it with at least someone in your life. Right. To make sure you're getting some kind of support so someone knows what's going on with you and can give you the support that will help you navigate through that or out of it or make it a little bit more joyful or make you feel a little bit less alone. I ask every single one of my guests on the podcast at the end, like, I asked you, what can we do to support you? And I ask every single time I go out and socially, every time I take a lunch meeting, at the end, I always ask, how can I support you? And I recommend for everyone to ask that question because, believe it or not, most people don't ask that question. And as we all know, we could all benefit from additional support. How many challenges do we face every single day? If you were to even spend the next hour thinking about what challenges you're experiencing the next hour, I guarantee you'll experience some sort of challenge or feeling that you don't want to have that someone else could help snap you out of. So I asked that question, and the answer that I most commonly get is, huh? You know, thank you so much for asking me how you can support me. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, just like the fact that you asked makes me feel supported.

Yeah, I bet everyone listening knows exactly. Or they don't. I mean, it's kind of like a flash in the pan, like, you either know or you don't know. I answered. I think right away, I was like, yeah, you get to actually be the best you that helps me the most be curious about what that process is.

And you also invite people to listen to your podcast as well.

That as well. Yeah.

Right. So you had clear, like, you know what your challenges are, and when someone asks you how they can support you, it's a great way to help achieve and get support on some of the challenges that you have.

This is so good, man. So going back then to the water, like, understanding that the tip of the iceberg, which is such a great Metaphor. The water lowers. How do we empty the water? How do we get the iceberg so that we're more seen, more intelligent in our emotions? How do we.

I think it's a combination of being real with ourselves about what our real life challenges are. The things that we don't want to look at, the things that perhaps that we're ashamed about and pretend that don't exist. That usually helps. I mean, think about the next time you turn to drugs or alcohol or turn to Netflix or turn to food. Usually the reason why you're going to those things is to avoid something that is real and alive and present for you in the give of moment.

When you coach people, you have a lot of students. Let's talk about your program. Are you being real.com?

Yeah.

You talk to them about not just being authentic, but also taking somewhat of an inventory. You call it winning weeks. Right. How to actually truly win the week.

Yeah.

Did that come through you specifically two years ago, or what's taking you in this direction?

Yeah, sure. So as a solopreneur, you know, someone who left a lucrative corporate job to start building businesses on my own and juggling many different businesses. So I had the one and only podcast. I had this are you being real.com and Are youe Being Real Brand where I was, you know, coming out with a ton of Instagram and social media content. And then I was doing consulting under my. The ideal workplace brand. I was doing Are youe Being Real Workshops. Oh, not to mention every other thing that I had going on in my life. Yeah, Right. So it's my social life with. In terms of relationships, that's my social relationships, that's familial relationships. Then there's my love life. How about my health? Any kind of curiosities or passions. I have regular obligations. The circumstances that just pop up, like paying bills, you know, taking time for self care, for self development, curiosity. Like the list goes on and on and on about the things that I ultimately authentically want to do. There's just so many of those things. And there's also so much noise in this world that's constantly, like, distracting me and pulling me off center. And sometimes I even choose to distract myself. And then I've got all my own insecurities and fears and doubts that sometimes get in the way of me choosing to live in authentic alignment with every one of those different buckets. And what I realized is that I didn't have enough accountability in my life. I was getting things done, you know, like I was releasing the podcast Every single week. I was constantly growing my business, but things were slipping through the cracks, right? Things like not cleaning my house, like having piles literally add up, like things that I'd wanted to do for like six months that I wasn't getting around to doing because I just wasn't prioritizing them or I wasn't declaring them publicly and being held accountable. And what I realized is that, well, certainly I'm not alone. And we all have like 24 hours a day and so many things that we want to do in a given day. And so that's where Winning Weeks was birthed, was to be a weekly check in system where it's like, all right, I'm going to push pause on life for just a few moments here, and I'm going to get aligned with what I want this week to look like. And what are the core ingredients for a winning week for me, whether it's staying in three nights and being social at least two, or if it's calling my grandparents, or if it's forwarding my professional vision, if it's getting a certain amount of hours of sleep a night, there's just so many different things that it could possibly be. And so that's why I created Winning Weeks. And it's for conscious people, high achievers, people who already are doing the work on themselves, who are committed to being the best human being and to being the best version of themselves that they can be.

And that's a term that gets pushed around a lot like, oh, I'm going to be the best version of myself. I can be what I really feel from you, though. And just even talking on this podcast about your story like that has been your intention the whole time. And would you say that that's changed at all? I mean, here we are, 2017, almost ready to be 2018.

Yeah.

Does your intention shift? Do you feel like what drives you now is way different than what drove you in the start of Winning Weeks?

It does. It does. And I'm glad you asked it, because it's a vulnerable answer. And the answer is that what drove me was to be the best human being I could be. But for me, for my own fulfillment, for my own joy, to stroke my own ego, to accomplish all of my own personal life goals and to enhance my own personal human experience today, that's still a big part of the equation. And serving others is so incredibly important to me because I've learned that is what is going to make me feel the joy. That is why I'm going to feel like I matter Ultimately, that I'm here for a reason. And there is nothing that lights me up more than seeing people in my winning weeks program generate the results that they seek in their lives and watching them, you know, be better human beings, expanding their perspective. One person reunited their parents after being apart for 37 years. I've had multiple people get their dream jobs, people getting their dream relationship as a result of opening up and practicing being vulnerable and speaking their truth, letting themselves be seen. Somebody acknowledged every single person in their. Their entire extended family as a result of one of the prompts that we had. People, you know, that was one of the homework assignments one week. So the results, you know, they go on and on and on. But to me, it's. It's not only filling my own cup, but by serving others at the same time.

So this is a motivation that changes. It changes for so many people sometimes. Like, I know when I lost weight, it was coming from a place of, like, well, how come nobody wants to have sex with me? So it was coming from this place of, like, me, like, selfish need. Like, I want to feel love. I want to have this. You kind of, you know, alluded to that a little bit right now. It's like, hey, when you started, the motivation wasn't the same. And so for anybody listening, it's okay to have that motivation shift. Like, that's actually part of the process. I think a lot of people, Mark, start with anger and frustration as a way to, like, get out of that, because, you know, as Arnold Schwarzenegger famously said, like, anger is a lot more powerful than despair. So if somebody's in despair and they're listening right now, what's kind of one thing they can do to make that shift? Or maybe a handful of things.

And I'm sure you've touched upon this topic on the show is asking how the anger is happening for you. And the anger is definitely still a part of my process. My relationship with this is different. Anger definitely does not come up for me as much as it used to. And I don't spend as much time in an angered state as I used to as well, because I don't just, like, give all my power away to anger and, you know, go down that rabbit hole and then start beating myself up, and then I'm beating myself up because I was beating myself up. I think we can all slippery slope to that, right? Yeah. And for example, I experienced some anger last week, and I was really frustrated. I was really, really frustrated. And I'm like, why can't I get the results that I want in one element of my business. And what I realized, the reason why I was having the anger is because I needed to get more clear on what that element of the business was, and that's why I was feeling the frustration. And when I realized that this was happening for me so I could get more clear on that element of the business, then I sat down, I took out a notebook, and I started journaling and writing down ideas and then started implementing them. And the anger was gone.

Let's talk about this. So many people right now are kind of placating their emotions, man. Like, anger has become something that no one wants to address. It's part of our human experience. It's why we're here on the planet, to feel a wide paradigm of emotions, including all the colors of the rainbow. So why do you think that so many men specifically. Let's talk about the men listening and even women, but men especially, because we're seeing right now, in my opinion, kind of a demasculinization of males, where males are actually afraid to own their anger. You work with both men and women in your courses, but from the men that you coach, and what do you think about this being in touch with anger and how we can actually be in our masculine and being healthy in anger as part of that, to me, it's.

We're not our anger. You know, we're not all of our feelings. Like, we might be experiencing a feeling in the moment, but that doesn't need to define who we are. And I know for me, if I were to look at every element of myself and every emotion that I exude, I can tell you that in my opinion, my ugliest form is when I'm angry. I don't want anyone to see me angry. I despise being angry. I think that I'm so repulsive and unlikable when I'm angry. And whenever I experience that, I quickly point the finger and I'm like, that's who you are. You're this angry, angry person. And the reality is that's a temporary feeling.

Yeah.

And when I allow myself to be like, okay, that's okay. It's. It's. It's cool to be angry from time to time. And it makes you human.

And it's a temporary state, as you talked about. It's like a motivational source. Right. So it's not permanent. Just like any. Even happiness is fleeting. If we're chasing happiness, Mark, we're not going to ever attain it. 20, 24 7. That's not possible. I guess my deeper question would be then, how do you feel that temporary anger serves us? And why do you think that right now in our society, when people are upset or angry about things that matter, not about Trump, not about some thing that happened in a community that you're not even connected to, that's a fear mongering tactic. That's not the anger. I'm talking about the deeper anger. How does that serve us temporarily?

Well, the things that push our buttons the most are usually the areas that need to be addressed the most. I could say something to you that would really, really, you know, like, it just like, really pisses you off. So if I said to you, like, hey, like, you, you look like you've been losing weight. If I like, said that to someone with an eating disorder, right. That could like, trigger them like crazy in terms of this narrative that they're telling themselves about, about, about their eating disorder. And I could say that same thing to somebody else, and they could either be happy about it, or I could say the same thing to someone. Someone said that to me, like, hey, you look great. Like, you look, you look thinner. I'm like, I've weighed the same amount since I was 18. So it does nothing for me when.

Someone says that, there's no trigger.

So if something really triggers you, there's something there, there's a lesson to be learned there, there's work to be done there. And, you know, for an example, I'll give another example is when I was in my teens or in high school when someone would say, oh, Mark, you're so gay, for example, I would take that, like, so personally, it triggered me because that was a big fear that I had, like, that I was gay and what would happen to me as a man in this modern age if I was gay and I identify as heterosexual. And at this point in time, like, I, I'm in touch with my sexuality.

Yeah.

And if someone would say that to me, I'd be like, oh, they're just seeing my, like, feminine side right now. And that's, that's cool, that's cool. So there's no trigger because I've done the work. I have a better understanding of who I am and like, realizing that and I'll just own this, like, I'm a heterosexual man. I believe sexuality is a spectrum. And I think I personally have had fantasies that have had other men in them. That doesn't mean that I want to spend my life having sex with men. I actually have zero interest in that. But the fact that I even had that fantasy is what created that fear. And part of the reason is men don't talk about that. Men don't talk about it. I was in a men's workshop. I'll dive into this. And I think it speaks to the power of. Of openness and lowering those water levels. Is. I was in this workshop a couple years ago and it was an all men's workshop. And one of my friends went into the center of the circle. I promise you, it wasn't me. It was a very close friend, though. And he went up and he said, I identify as a heterosexual man. I love women. You know, whatever. Whatever he said. But then he also said, but I'd be lying to you if I said that I've never had sexual fantasy about a man. And he's like, I have a feeling I'm not alone here. So he's like, to make this safe, like, let's do a closed eye little exercise here. And I'm gonna invite anyone who's ever had a sexual fantasy about another man to put their hand up. And he did it. And I think 75% of the men in the room raised their hand.

Wow.

Now, like, you know this as a man. Like, men don't say that in conversation.

Sure.

Like, I had never admitted that publicly, even to a close friend at that point in time. And then hearing that statistic, 75%. And then other people went up to him afterwards and they said, hey, thank you for asking that question. It made me feel less alone or, you know, less guilty. You know, the weight I've been putting on my consciousness about that idea. And it's like, oh, it's totally normal.

And it's really about shame. It's like, it's almost like a shame thing.

It is a shame thing.

And you talked earlier. We're not our thoughts, like, just because we have a thought or even a feeling that comes up, up. Those aren't us. That's a temporary state. So, you know, if you're listening, don't be freaked out here. We're just talking about thoughts, and thoughts don't control us. Right. So that's kind of a lot of the work that we do here on Wellness Force.

We've all seen movies.

We've all seen movies. Yeah.

People kill people in movies. And that might make you have a thought one time of killing someone. That doesn't make you a murderer.

Totally.

You just adopted a thought from something else that you've seen and it crossed your brain just like the other 60, 70,000 thoughts that you're Having in that day, you're just, just deciding to apply shame and additional attention and power to that one particular thought.

Man. Thank you for talking about the water, the iceberg analogy and even being so vulnerable. Mark, about just like, yeah, I have all these crazy thoughts, but they don't define me. They're not actually who I am. It's just a temporary thing that comes in and out. And I think so many people can relate to this, man. This is the last part of the show. It's seven fast questions.

Awesome.

And it's for Mark's true. Are you ready? Yeah.

Let's do it, baby.

First question. Yeah. In life, what absolutely cracks you up.

To the point where you have tears.

In your face and your stomach hurts? Like what makes you die laughing in life?

It's a good question. I really like dark humor, which is pretty funny. So I like seeing something like. Yeah, it's almost even embarrassing thing to say but you know, if someone like trips, that makes me laugh really hard.

You're not alone. Like there's so many videos that have millions of views where somebody's like getting a two by one for on their shoulder, blah, blah, blah. What is some of the inspiration you draw now? Do you have anyone in your circle that you can name? Maybe an influencer or you know, some kind of external force that does keep you accountable because you keep so many other people accountable.

Yeah. What really inspires me is all the amazing people around me. And I can't just say one person because I am surrounded by people that inspire me and without them, there is no way that we'd be having this conversation here today because I'd probably still be at showtime time.

Can you tell us one of them?

Yeah. Lewis Howes. I'll put at the top of the list. Lewis was in that training at mitt, which keeps coming up here in this conversation and has become a very dear friend of mine. He's encouraged me and inspired me every step of the way. And I definitely wouldn't have chosen podcasting if it weren't for Louis and to see him become a New York Times bestselling author. I mean, he's a normal guy, just like you and I, who sets powerful goals and is so giving and now is sharing incredibly vulnerably with his Mask of Masculinity book.

And that's just breaking the mold for a lot of men out there.

To me, you know, he is an example of what's possible when someone rises above their circumstances and the stories that they tell themselves to truly live a dream. Life.

I think fear holds a lot of people back. And on your podcast, I know you explore this. You actually asked me a question about fear. But I want to know for you, Mark, you know, right now, on this day, at this age, with everything that's led you up to here, what is your deepest edge right now for fear? Like, what are you truly most afraid of?

Yeah, there's a. I have many fears. I have many fears. The fear that I've had most of my life is in regards to finding love and finding my soulmates or having kids. And since I got divorced five years ago, that's been a big part of my narrative for the last five years, is the possibility of not being a dad, which is something I've always wanted more than anything else at this juncture of time. That fear is not very alive in me, but what is alive in me is the idea that I just break down. Like, I've been on this ascension now for four or five years since my divorce, and my life gets better and better every single. Well, not every day, but every month, let's say consistently, because I have a couple of good days, and then every once in a while, I have a bad day. But my life, everything has been ascending. And the fear is, what if it all falls apart? What if I lose my health? What if I crash and burn and humiliate myself? That, to me, if I can't keep up with everything that I'm building, that's my biggest fear right now, man.

I know. I just felt that in my chest and everyone else. You're lying if you don't know. You've thought about that at least once. So thank you for bringing that up, man. When we look at the grounding aspect, you, in your talk for TEDx, talked about how this duality of this, the sword, you know, we have one side that tech can help us and one side that can hurt us. What do you think is possible for you on a daily basis for the rest of your life in regards to this relationship with healthy technology? I mean, is there two or three things or one thing that you want to have as a way of being?

Well, I think it's funny that, you know, you asked me that, and I've been sending these personalized videos every day for, you know, the last, you know, well, over the last year. And there's days that I don't want to do it, and sometimes I'm a day behind or so, and I wonder how long I'll do it for. I don't know. I don't know, I'm not planning on stopping anytime soon, but there are days where I'm like, all right, I'm exhausted, and I definitely am still addicted to my phone. I'm communicating with probably 50 people a day, probably even at least. I mean, I'm sending out so many outbound messages. I've got the podcast. There's over a hundred people who've done winning weeks so far. They're hitting me up all the time, so I love it. And the times when I'm not filling my own cup, when I'm not taking time for myself, that I get exhausted from it. So, you know, at this point in time, I can only speak to my truth right now, in this moment, that I'm going to continue to be as giving as possible on social media and supporting my friends with whatever projects they're up to. I'm going to share their work because we could all use more support when we're, like, sharing and promoting stuff.

We all need more inspirational things all the time.

So being more giving than even I have been when I gave the TEDx talk, and I know this is kind of rapid fire. There are three main takeaways at the end of the talk, and it wasn't to send birthday messages to everyone, but. But it's start more conversations, whether it's with people you already know, you want to get to know, or maybe even like a dream person, a dream mentor that you want to connect with. Like, send them a personalized video. You have nothing to lose. And personalized videos work. They stand out way more effective than just writing on someone's wall or sending them a direct message. Second is to be giving. To be giving. And that is like, if you are loving the Wellness Forest Podcast, have you been sharing it out consistently? Like, if you are sitting here loving this conversation, share it out. And like, that makes me feel weird even saying that, because I'm on this episode, but any other episode, like, if you love it, share it so other people, too, can take advantage of it. And I think that people are so nervous about their image and being judged about what they share out there that I think we've become stingy as to what we share out. And the reality is you never know how a piece of content can touch somebody else. So if it really touches you, it could potentially change or save somebody else's life. So be giving. You know, instead of just clicking, like on a post, either share it out, write a comment, send the person a direct missed message or video, letting them know that it touched your heart. Because if you don't do it. Maybe they won't. Maybe they'll stop putting posts out like that. And then everybody loses. And then the third thing is to just straight up be real, you know, let yourself be seen. That's ultimately what we want. We want to feel like we matter. And in order for us to be seen, we need to let our guards down and allow other people to see us. It's just ironic that the thing we want most is the thing that we keep so guarded and protected.

And that's our image, man. So many nuggets in there. Thank you for just being so rock star authentic, man. I really enjoyed this conversation. Two more questions.

Yeah, the last one, I'll be less long winded.

Yeah, that's fine. The last one here is around joy. So I asked you about fear, but in any moment, there's always fear and joy in every moment. So what brings you the most joy in life now?

Dancing.

100% just human embodiment.

100%. Putting some music on and letting myself flow to the music, not caring if other people are watching me, looking at me like I'm a weirdo. To me, that lights me up and brings me more joy than anything else.

Last question, man. And it's probably the biggest one because I feel like we've explored some scary spaces for people. So, you know, take some time, digest this episode. If this ruffled your feathers, like, pay attention to that, and that's okay. But we are here to explore this physical and emotional wellness, you know, this intelligence around our life and how we can live it to the fullest, to our best to live life. Well. What's your definition now at this age of wellness? How do you define wellness in your life?

Yeah, wellness, to me, it's clearly multifaceted. So I think wellness is. It is that centeredness. It's that inner peace. It's allowing yourself to be in that inner peace. So wellness is being present and accepting the present moment as if you chose it. Wellness is taking care of our health. Wellness is projecting out what we want to receive in return.

Are you being real.com as well as all of our social. Can they contact you? Mark Shapiro? Where can they learn more?

Yeah, @ryoubingreal on Instagram. That's usually the first place that I. I typically tell people to check out lots of inspirational content there. I love to do, like, little dares and challenges as well on my Instagram, and I would love to engage with you. So if this resonated with you, let's play.

Awesome. Mark, thanks so much. For having me in your amazing house. You guys check out the video here if you're watching on YouTube. Hello, if you're listening on itunes, this is one of the coolest houses I've ever been into to record a podcast. So thanks again from my heart to yours, man. Have me at your place. Really appreciate you and all that you're up to in the world.

Thank you, Josh and I acknowledge you for being just an extraordinary human being and an absolutely excellent, first rate interviewer.

Thank you very much man. Okay guys, we will see you soon. If you have questions for Mark, make sure you ask him questions in the comments below. You can also leave a review on itunes. It's really easy. Just type out a question for Mark or myself and I'll make sure he gets it. So until next time, this is Mark and Josh saying goodbye from beautiful LA or Venice? Both. Both. We'll talk to you soon.

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