208 Maddy Moon: Healthy Boundaries & Masculine/Feminine Power

My true embodying of this pleasure idea is fairly new to me. I've always understood that pleasure is something that we should stop turning away from. Like, it's good to have, okay, let's not exploit it, let's not repress it, let's just have it. But actually embodying it, feeling it in my body and learning how to share it for my sake, for me, and giving it to the world for whoever is around to enjoy it. It's a reflection of the divine's love.

That's Matty Moon, and this is episode 208 of Wellness Force Radio. What's up, my friend? It's your host, Josh Trent. And welcome back to another episode for your weekly access to global experts in all things wellness as we discover the physical and emotional intelligence we need to live life well. In this podcast, we're talking with author, podcast host, retreat leader, and transformational coach who just happens to be one of my most trusted friends and influencers in our wellness world. Madeline Moon, known to the world as Maddie Moon. For so long, she was driven by perfectionism and her masculine edge, which is not surprising in our current world, where we're not set up, especially in 2018, for this balancing act between the masculine and the feminine. And in the show today, what's fascinating is that we're talking about a timeless. And also considering what's happening right now in our world with the suicides from Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade, as well as depression rates and suicide rates skyrocketing, this is also a very timely conversation about setting healthy boundaries, dealing with shame inside of ourselves, and our connection to our own sexuality, which is where a lot of shame actually comes from, as well as the art of practicing pleasure. Yes, that's correct. The art of practicing pleasure. It's funny, as adults, we. We're retraining ourselves to learn how to experience a state of pleasure where when we were kids, it was an automatic default. I know you get it. You're gonna absolutely love this conversation with Maddie. And before we get into the show, I wanna give you permission right here, right now, today, wherever you are, whatever you're up to, take a big deep breath for five seconds, fill your belly with air, hold it for five at the top, maybe take in a tiny bit more air at the top, just suck in a little bit more, then let it go slowly for five seconds. Each time you breathe in and breathe out. Before you do those, just pause for five. That is box breathing. And you can do that as many times as you need because this Is your breath break? It feels good to take a deep breath. Treat our body with loving care. Not only our breath and our sleep and our movement, but also the micronutrients that we reward ourselves, that we give to ourselves. That's right. Every single day. I've actually been doing this. Actually, it's been twice a day. It's the organifi red juice. Now don't get me wrong, I love the green, but the red has been hitting me exactly where I need it the most. Especially in my afternoons. You know, the 3pm dip, the low energy, kind of like coffee crawler that comes out of us where we're like, ah, maybe I should have that extra cup of coffee. Don't do it. Instead, do the adaptogenic route. Get the plant compounds in organifi red juice. You can get this red juice because you're part of the WellnessForce family. You get 20% off. All you have to do to get this energy boost in the afternoon is go to organifi.com wellnessforce use code wellnessforce 20% off. So give yourself this gift today. It's time. You deserve it. Go over to that site, Organifi.com wellnessforce get 20% off so you can save some money and spend it on other amazing opportunities, things and people in your life. Now Maddie's story begins actually, just like all of us in our childhood, her journey, though of emotional intelligence grew from this hardcore Christian family upbringing which deeply affected her path for years. And actually it led to abuse and a poor relationship with food. We'll just call it that. That you're gonna learn about more in this show today, as well as depression. But Maddie crossed through these of healing. Now she helps women across the world discover what this femininity really means. This feminine power, being in feminine grace, this commitment to her work. I know you see this a lot in our industry. A lot of women who talk about truly balancing the masculine and feminine. But Maddie does this in a different way. She talks about putting down our shields and our swords. That honestly, I think the me too movement has created this fight between the sexes. Now, I'm not saying that me too is bad. It has a powerful place in our evolution. But I do believe we're at a time now where we get to turn the M into a W. Flip the hashtag to MeToo into we2. That's where we're headed. And Maddie is truly in the driver's seat of this vehicle for change because she not only teaches the work with people globally, but she also is committed to her own Work in evolution and balancing these tumultuous energies every single day. So by the end of the podcast, you're going to understand how to shift between the masculine and feminine, whether you're a man or a woman. How to set up healthy boundaries inside your mind to spend more time focusing on your needs through self care, how to express healthy frustrations without creating resentment. What it actually means to be in feminine flow, Letting go of the whole spiritual babble about, like, being in feminine flow and actually embodying feminine flow for the men listening. Maddie and I go back and forth about the role of masculine in this evolution of growth for both sexes. This continues. It's not going to go away. It's actually intensifying because you and I both know we feel this, right? The consciousness, our collective consciousness rising more every single day. And I think maybe yourself and a lot of people, you know, that have been wr in or listening to the show, you're experiencing this. A ton of uncomfortable energies, these feelings you can identify, but this is what happens. It's super dark before the brightest light shines. That's why the sun comes up and it's darkest right before the dawn. How's that for some truth? Okay, now let's jump into this conversation with Matty Moon where we explore sexuality, healthy boundaries, and this balancing act of masculine feminine in a world that does not support it. It's up to us to learn how. Drop in right now with Matty Moon to learn. So my friend Maddie Moon is joining us on the podcast today, and I say friend because we have gotten so deep in her podcast, which we're gonna link in the show notes, and it actually inspired me to have a connected conversation with Maddie Moon on Wellness Force Radio, because Maddie is so open, so honest, and honestly so raw about this guiding force for women that she truly is to help them stop overthinking their lives and live with more trust, intuition, and flow. Maddie Moon, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me on. I am so excited. I feel like I've known you for so long, and it's amazing to be able to have these conversations even when we live in different states, even though we haven't met in person. It's such a blessing.

Well, I feel like I already met your soul, and your soul is gonna meet our soul here as the Wellness Force Collective, because this conversation around polarity and boundaries and honestly, the physical and emotional intelligence we explore on Wellness Force, this is really your ethos, like everything around and emotions and how the physical body interacts with Those emotions and how these two lenses constantly face one another. This is a fascinating topic and set of topics for you. When did you actually begin this journey? Was it at the time of childhood? Was it at conception? Like, when did you actually uncover the stone that said, this is Maddie Moon's path for emotional growth?

Oh, boy. Okay, here we go. Ready for the ride? So I'm going to go back into my childhood because I feel my story is really needed here for people to really get the idea of how I've gotten to where I am today. And I was raised in a household that had very strict, strict rules. It's very conservative. Not to say that everyone who is conservative is strict, but my experience was that. And there was never a time in my upbringing, in my reality, where my parents really, truly wanted to get to know who I was. There was never this energy of, oh, we just had a child. Let's name her Madeline and discover who she is. It was more of, okay, we have a child, her name is Madeline. This is exactly how she's going to be. We are going to mold her, get her ready for life in the real world, and we're going to do our best, but it's got to stay within these perimeters. This is how she has to be. And as you can imagine, that suffocates a lot of the inner child. There's this part of me as a literal child that wanted to explore and be weird and be quirky and like Lord of the Rings and pretend I was a hobbit and to dive into this world of unicorns and just all this mystical, magical stuff. I loved that since I was a kid, but also my family being very conservative Christian, again, there are many different ways to go about having your religion and feeling the connection with the divine. The way I was raised, though, it wasn't about feeling connected in the way that you feel connected. It was about feel connected in this one particular way. And turns out that how I was being into fantasy and mystical lands and all this exciting stuff and Mother Nature, just this natural inclination to want to hug a tree, all of that was seen as sacrilegious, seen as the devil's work. Like, just a lot of shame around my interests, but then also sexual shame. I grew up hearing very, very traumatic comments from family members. Very racist things, very feminine shaming things. Pleasure is bad punishment when I receive my first kiss. So I think that you can get a picture here of how this was a lot of pressure to be in this feminine body, not know what to do with it. I Didn't even. Side note, I didn't even know masturbation was a thing until college.

Oh my gosh. I'm just like, my heart's breaking.

Yeah. And this is a recent thing I've been realizing I was thinking about this, like, when is the first time I ever heard about that? And I was like, oh my God, that's when I got my first vibrator when I was 19. I was like 19 or 20 not too long ago. You can imagine how the past few years have been. Anyways, so there was, like I was saying there was just so much pressure going on and I needed a way to cope and I didn't have these healthy tools beyond that. My mother would often tell me, like, you don't. She would say things along the lines of, you don't know how to make friends, you're probably depressed, you're this and that. And over time, I started to believe these things. I don't have friends, I'm depressed, I'm weird, I'm this, I'm that, but in a negative light. And I needed to cope. So I turned to my food, my weight control, body image, making myself as small as possible, if I could just disappear. And throughout years of disordered eating, exercise addiction, physical abuse, emotional abuse on myself, I went into bodybuilding. And two years into that, using all these different mechanisms and trying to cope, and trying to cope, I finally came to this realization that I was coping in a way that was bringing me so far away from this version of myself that I was born to be this expansive, excited, sexual, sensual, loving being that was always repressed. And by me literally going into these bodybuilding shows, asking for a panel of judges to critique me and give me things to be distracted by, like, are my glutes the same size? Is my chest big enough? All these different things were just distractions. And I went down this path of separating from this coping mechanism. I realized this was not the way. I ended up feeling very inclined to move into the mountains, which on retrospect was a desire to get back in touch with Mother Earth, with nature, with mountains, with beauty, like just God's beauty being God's backyard. And I began to intuitively eat and come back into my body and allow my body to, to gain some much needed pounds and to feel more sensual in my body. And over time of learning this, speaking with amazing people such as yourself, hiring coaches, doing the work, I began to coach myself. Not coach myself, but coach others. I began to become a coach myself. And that was about four years ago, where I started that journey. And so for the past four and a half years, I have been learning to go deeper and deeper and deeper into these layers of what it means to be in my feminine body, to be free, to learn how to live in a state of softness and surrendering, but not giving up, as in surrendering, not weakness, as in surrendering, but surrendering as to acknowledging what is. Whether that be me in my weirdness, my quirkiness, acknowledging what is my body, it's beauty, acknowledging what is the situation in front of me and being okay with it and learning how to live with it like a soft river, rather than fighting, fighting, fighting and being in my perfectionism. And, yeah, that was a very big chunk of my story. So I'll stop there.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for sharing that, because I'm just listening and I was actually, like, jotting down some questions because this first kiss. You had your first kiss, and yet there was pressure around that. That's so. I've never heard that before. That's so challenging. I mean, typically, like, parents would celebrate someone's first kiss. What was the paradigm? There's that your first kiss was shamed.

Okay. So thank you for pointing that out, because I know I've briefly skimmed over it. So I'm really excited that you want to talk about this more. I was 13 years old, and this was the first peck. Not even a big kiss. It was just the first peck. This guy I liked so much, his name was Elliot, he asked me to go to the movies, and we went to the movies, and once it was over, he just gave me this soft little kiss on his way out. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting my first kiss. And there is this particular smile that is my. I have a secret smile that I have done with my mom since I was a kid. And it's never come out with anyone else. It's always this one smile that comes out when I'm around my mom, when I'm trying so hard to keep a secret. It's like a nervous smile. It's so strange, and it's so strange that it's only with her, but this smile. I remember she picked me up from the movies because I'm 13, I can't drive, and I do this secret smile, and I'm thinking, madeline, stop smiling. Stop smiling. You're gonna give your secret away. Don't, don't, don't. Because you don't know what's coming. But I also knew so badly. I wanted to share this exciting thing that just Happened. My mom said, what's that smile for? And it's spilled out. I said, elliot kissed me. Oh my goodness, he kissed me. And the face of absolute fear. And some fury came up in my mom. The teeth gritting, just not knowing how to handle this very fearful situation for her.

Where did that fear come from? Inside of her? What was that?

It's a great question. I believe this fear is coming from. I don't know if my, if my. The women in my family as well as so many other women in our culture and society knew what to make of female sexuality. It's to be feared. It's very powerful. And when people are afraid of this power, two things happen. Exploitation, to make it, make use of it for the male gaze. And that's not to put down men by any means, but when you watch ads on the TV or you watch movies, like female sexuality has been exploited. Of course, we all know this.

Yeah, it's one of the most powerful tools in the universe.

Exactly. But then on the other side, there's repression and that's the path. There was so much exploitation going on. And I don't know the ins and outs of my mom's story or all the women before it. Like you were saying on my podcast, there's a big pain body. And I think this pain body here is the exploitation and repression. And especially in my experience of being raised in a religious household, it was all repression all the time. So I think by me having a kiss, being seen by a man, being someone who's going into that area of expressing my sensuality, my 13 year old sensuality, it was just such a scary thing for her because I don't think she knew how to handle it. She doesn't know this middle ground. So it was immediately like, oh no, you need to be kissing. Only in the realms of probably like love, but not just love, but married love and being over 21 and all these different rules of how you can express your love.

Yeah.

And it blew up in an outrage. I remember we pulled into the garage and there was screaming and my tears were coming down. And she was telling me, you didn't read this Christian book and this book and this book and this book and this book. And she threw them all in my room and I might have been grounded, I don't really know. But I do remember that that was an experience that totally sent shivers down my spine with every first kiss. Years after.

Oh my God, the imprinting on our nervous system, it's like we have this physical body. We also have the Conscious and subconscious mind. And for some reason your mom, based on honestly the tools she didn't have, tried to imprint her values, her beliefs around intimacy onto you at 13. I mean, you were so malleable then. We have such a lack of understanding about the world and we're looking to our parents to actually guide us this guided experience of life. Looking back though, I'm almost reminded of Michael Beckwith when he was interviewed about Oprah Maddie. And he goes, you know, if you can't give out what you vibrationally are not. So your mom might have had like some kind of. In her mind, she was thinking, I'm loving her, you know, I'm taking care of my daughter. But yet the real imprinting that your mom received was that any kind of intimacy is wrong and there's shame around it. God, I mean, the road from you coming from that, I didn't know that about you. Now you serve women all across the world. This pathway, though, of healing that you've walked, coming from that moment to now, there have been probably so many thresholds that have come up for you around training and emotional intelligence. But what's something that you've done to re imprint that old memory of kissing equals shame.

Oh, geez, that's such a good question. Breath. I'm going to tell you, that's the very first thing is when I would experience these first kisses. And this work has been done over the past couple years. Anytime I'm experiencing a first kiss, I acknowledge that shiver that runs down my spine. I acknowledge the shiver. That's number one is not to ignore it, not to push through it, not to pretend like it's not there. I think so many of us do that. We think, okay, if I could just get over the sexual shame, finally I'll be able to enjoy sex. Finally I'll be able to get back into my body, and finally I'll be able to be in my feminine flow. And that's not really what happens. We have to use these experiences as a portal. I can experience a delicious first kiss through feeling that shiver. Not by ignoring it, not by repressing it. Because that's what I've done with so many emotions in my life. And where did it get me? It got me into an eating disorder. It got me into neglecting any relationship that had potential for massive amounts of love. So repression wasn't working. So breath. One thing that any listener who is resonating with this, Hear me out on this one. If you are with a person who you're feeling, your feeling is Very attracted to you. They're very attracted to you. You're attracted to them. And there's fear coming up, because if you're attracted, that might lead from one thing to the next. One of the first things that go, whenever we're feeling this little bit of inkling of fear, is holding our breath. And this happens oftentimes, even whenever we're sleeping with someone, when we're being intimate or being sexual. Holding of the breath is one of the first ways we think we can either induce an orgasm or we can control it. And we do this in life, just in general. We grit our teeth, we hold our breath. It's a way that we stop the flow. We stop the flow of emotion. We stop the flow of life. And that's why I always bring up this metaphor of being like a river, because it's flowing. Whether you're flowing with the weight that you're gaining after an eating disorder or you're flowing with the dance of a conversation. Like what we're doing now, we're not overthinking it. We're not obsessing over what are we going to say next. Where is this conversation going? We're flowing with it and learning how to breathe, even through. I mean, I'm not literally trying to breathe in this person's mouth, but breathing after the experience, breathing before it, and being able to have these practices such as yoga and meditation have helped me tremendously with processing these experiences. Journaling as well. I've done a lot of journaling and writing, just about acknowledging that this happened and understanding that the way through it is flowing through it. It's okay that this is happening. My body is having this nervous response, and it's to be expected. And it's not gone completely, Josh. It is still in me, and it's working its way through me as I continue to breathe and be open to the flow.

This is a big point you make about flow, because in this current society, I can't think of a more harsh time for us to be not distracted. I mean, the way that our calendar, notifications and everything goes off for us all the time, it's literally a block to flow. And I think about the real definition of feminine flow and how when we look at over millennia, it's been so discombobulated. Like, what is an actual feminine, flowing, graceful, powerful woman. What the hell does that actually mean? And I think most men right now in 2018, we're really having one side that we're letting go of, which is the old conditioning of, oh, women are supposed to. Women need to act this way. Women need to look this way. The magazine covers that I saw when I was, like, a teenage. Really, women, we're letting go of that. We're stepping into this new paradigm of what actually a feminine flow really is. I'd love for you to tell us, Maddie, like, what do you believe that actually is?

Yes. I love this. This is so good and so juicy. So, like, what you just said, there's been a lot of this idea of this is what a woman looks like, but then there's a new. There's a new level. There's an. A new spiritual, new agey idea of what the feminine flow is. And that woman is the woman in white. She is the goddess. She's standing on the shore of a beach. The wind is blowing through her wavy, golden hair. Okay, that's one version. But that is not what a feminine goddess looks like. Only that's one. That's one archetype out of many, many, many, many.

It's the one that's glamorized so much, though.

Yeah, it's the one that's glamorized and the one that we're. Now, it's good in some ways because we're moving away from one particular super extreme, which is like the Playboy model. But I don't think it's. I don't not think. I definitely know it's not healthy for us to be picking another body, another look to say, okay, well, this is what we're going after now. Because not everyone looks like that. Many of us don't. Inside, we have this person within us that can be standing on the shore of a beach and have flowy hair. And that can be an archetype. I don't know which one. The goddess, spiritual archetype. Choose whichever you want. Whichever one you want. But that's not the only one. So I did an event this past weekend with two wonderful coaches, John Wineland and Kendra Kunov. Amazing individuals. And. And one of the practices that they had us do over the weekend was embodying different types of archetypes. And I am no expert in this realm, but I am an expert at being, at living in this body. And archetypes are just summoning things that we already have within ourselves. Anyone can do this. Anyone can do this. And so when your question is, how do we go into this feminine flow? What it means is to be in all different parts of ourselves. And it's easy to hear that and think, oh, yeah, I'm on all parts of myself. I'M in touch with my hunger. I'm in touch with my need for sleep. And when I'm feeling hurt by my boyfriend. Okay, yeah, cool. That's a good baseline. But the next level is to be able to fully embody all of that and not embody it as in, I'm angry and I'm closing my arms and turning it away. I'm turning away from you. I'm withholding from you. But being able to embody anger, embody frustration, embody tears running down your face. And also doing something that is called the yoga of intimacy, which means using your posture and your body to remain open during that experience. And this is. I had this one experience where I was facing someone in a workshop over the weekend, and I had to reveal my heart's truth. And I first started it thinking, okay, everyone's gonna cry. I'm not gonna cry. I'm gonna be fine.

I'm gonna be the tough one.

I'm the one that doesn't have anything that really needs to be revealed is really what I was thinking. Like, I'm good to go. And through this process of doing the yoga, like I said, opening my shoulders up, nipples or headlights, facing this person, keeping my eyes in eye contact the whole time. And we exchanged these words. And as I was saying, and I felt this experience of water coming out of my eyes, crying so hard. Like, I'm talking just like, my face is distorted, and I'm like. But I'm keeping the eye contact. I'm not closing off. And so whenever, whatever you're. You're looking to be more into your feminine flow. It does not mean to look graceful all the time. You can be in your grace and be in your fury.

Hell, yes. I'm always thinking about the feminine flow for these divine goddesses. It also happens like at 11:30 when they're scraping cheese off a pan. Like, it doesn't always have to be sexy for them to be in their feminine flow. And I love this because it reminds me about this phrase that you said to me when we actually, before we hit the record button, and it was around pleasure. And I looked at your Facebook a couple hours ago, and I noticed that you asked this question to your community. You said, why do you hide your pleasure in this world that is suffering from a lack of female enjoyment? Why don't you bring your pleasure as a gift to the world? We're gonna link this in the show notes because I love this so much. You said that pleasure is seen as love to the masculine. It is the same it is the same. What do you mean by this? Like, why is this coming through you right now? Was it from your training or have you been kind of marri on this for a couple years?

I would say that my true embodying of this, this pleasure idea is fairly new to me. I've always understood that, you know, pleasure is something that we should stop turning away from. Like, it's good to have. Like, okay, let's not exploit it, let's not repress it, let's just have it. But actually embodying it, feeling it in my body and learning how to share it for my sake, for me, and giving it to the world for whoever is around to enjoy it. It's a reflection of the divine's love. The woman we provide love light. This is highly based off of the work of David Data. We are love light. We are a direct reflection of the divine's love. Our body, we birth, we create. Our bodies are love. It's magic, it's beautiful. And the masculine as you know, and you can talk all about is consciousness. And the reason why so many men turn to pornography or quick fixes is because they're really, really, really starving for love and for this amplified love. And when they see pleasure, they see love. A woman's pleasure, her enjoyment, like you said, it doesn't have to be direct, directly related to sexuality. Pleasure is something you feel on a moment to moment basis. It's something you can find in every moment. Like I said, you can have your fury and you can have grace at the same time. You can feel these moments of pain or sorrow, but do it through pleasure. Still finding pleasure in your body, they don't have to be separate. This. If anyone's going to take anything away from this podcast, this is what I would invite people to marinate on is this idea that you can still find pleasure somewhere in your body, regardless of what else is happening in your life. It doesn't have to be, oh man, well, now I got to put my pleasure in any kind of morsel of enjoyment on hold until I get through this fight that I'm having with my partner. What if you use that fight and you embody the anger and you could still find some ounce of pleasure in your body at the same time. Kendra, as I was telling earlier, one of the teachers at this training I was at, she used a beautiful analogy for this mind blowing to me and it really helped me connect some dots. She said that bees are pollinating flowers because that's their, that's their job. They go around from flower to flower to flower. And they, they pollinate it, they bring it back to the queen bee. I might be saying some of this stuff wrong because I don't know all about bees, but that's what they do, that's their instinct. And flowers need that to happen too or they would die. But the bees don't know that. The bees don't know, like the flowers are like relying on them for it. Now if the bees found out that the flowers were enjoying being pollinated and so the bees were like, well, I don't want you to enjoy it. It's just for me. So I'm not going to pollinate you anymore. They would both die. Flowers would die, the bees would die. And I mean, if, from what I understand, if bees died, all of humanity dies.

Which right now, they are dying. So it's totally separate from this conversation. But yes.

Yeah, yeah. Something, something dimension in there for sure. So when this happens, it's the same thing. What happens in a woman. Since we have this pain body of feeling like our sexuality has been exploited. So many of us have just wanted to turn it off. We don't want to sway our hips when we're scraping off cheese in the middle of the night from a pan because we don't want to be objectified or sexualized or seen or someone else get pleasure from the pleasure we feel in our body. And so we turn it off. We, you know, the small examples is we might get a text from someone that's flirting with us, but we hold back our smile because we're shy and we don't want someone to see our smile. Or we hold back maybe a self pleasure, practice masturbation just because someone else might know we're doing it, we don't even want them to know we're doing it like our partner. It's my practice, it's my thing. It's secrecy. So we don't do it because we're either embarrassed or we're still working through shame around that. And so we withhold our pleasure. And to men, as John was explaining, pleasure is seen as the exact same as love to the male eye and has been exploited through time because more, more, more, more amplified, more and more and more and more and more. This is amazing. I love this. I love female pleasure. Let's put it on every single perfume magazine and hamburger magazine and all these different things. We want it all. Yeah, I don't know what a hamburger magazine is.

It sounds like one where they would have a pretty disconnected cover though. Cause I'm Blown away by everything you're saying here. And I absolutely love this metaphor of the bee and the flower. You know, it's funny, when we're kids, parents are supposed to talk to us about birds and the bees, but it's really about bees and the flowers, because the bees and the flowers, this dance, this understanding that we need each other. We need each other. This is such a powerful sentence, but it's one right now that is. It's obviously forgotten. I think it's a long time forgotten where we think we're connected because of social and all the digital connection, but yet. Damn. That's why this conversation in our podcast is so important right now. The reminder you gave us, Maddie, that we need each other, it's actually the recipe for deeper connection. And it's something that I don't think is talked about enough. This conversation could be magnified hundreds of thousands of times, and it's still not going to reach all the people that need it. So if this is resonating with you, like, send this conversation to a friend, because the next question I want to ask you is around the practical. So we know that the bee and the flower need one another, just like men and women need each other. How do we actually take this to a practical level? How do we connect knowing that that need is there? What are the men's roles and then what are the women's roles in this dichotomy?

Yes. So what I'm currently embodying right now, and everyone listening is going to be hearing this journey that I am fully taking on. And I would be so happy for everyone to give this some thought, but it revolves around for the feminine. And remind me, if I keep going too much about the feminine, I can contrib to the masculine from what I understand and what I'm learning for the feminine. Getting out of the head. Stop being so heady. What did I just read? Maybe, like, earlier this morning, I read something that was like, when you're in your head, you're not in your. Your genitals. Something like that.

I would say that's pretty true. There's not a lot of blood flow going down there if you're thinking too much.

Yeah, it was something about blood flow, too, but it was. It was. I'm going to put it on a quote in my Instagram because it was so perfect the way it was said. It was like, there's no blood flow when it's all in your head. It's never in your genitals. And it's so true. We are so heady. We're overthinking everything, and rightly so. We've. Many of us have had to put up guards and walls. We've had our hearts broken and trust has been misplaced. And so we've been using these strategies to build armor and to shield men and women, both of us. So to be exposed in your emotions more vulnerably is hard. It's so hard. It's so much easier to be in a fight and to huff and puff and close your arms and turn away and walk out the door because it makes you feel safer. But it's disconnecting you from the person that you're feeling this emotion with. And they're generally left kind of with their head in the sand, just totally lost on what to do. And maybe they might reach out, but then you continue to pull away. So this, the paradigm shift here and how we communicate with our partners. For the feminine, it's not through only language. Language is valuable. But like I was saying earlier, the yoga. The yoga is what we want to learn how to do. So what that means is to show your emotion. Show it. We can say I'm mad all we want, but who often looks at their partner in the eyes, lets their tears come down while holding contact. Eye contact. And stomp, huh?

No, that's being seen. It's so open. Being seen for exactly who you are, which is honestly the most paralyzing feeling most of the time.

Yes, exactly. It's so paralyzing. I was just invited to do this challenge of I'm feeling kind of angry about the past couple days about some things. And I was challenged to do a full minute of me and my wildest tantrum and rage, like, just to show how. Not talk, show how pissed off I am in the biggest tantrum ever, jumped on my bed, literally. I was grabbing my pillows and throwing them against the wall. I ended up ripping off my sheets, and I'm screaming, no, no, no. Like, I just let her fly. And it's safer to do that in the comfort of your own home by yourself. But can you imagine if you expressed your wildest pain in front of your partner, in front of whoever you're trying to create connection with? The thing is, though, to do it through love, it's different. If you don't do it through love, if you do it through hate or resentment, it comes off much different. That's when it comes off with the closed arms and slamming and walking out the door or putting someone down. The goal here is not to put someone down. It's to reveal. And through revealing, you evoke. You evoke something within the masculine. When they see you and your depths of sadness when you're coming to them and saying, I need you. Like I'm surrendering in this moment, I need you. Look at how much I need you. There's tears running down my face. I'm facing you. I need you. I'm showing you with my body that I'm here for you. I mean, tell me, Josh, would that evoke something within you?

Oh, my God. I mean, for me, it would pull me even closer. Like, I think my experience of this that you're eloquently describing here is if a woman's not so much in her head and she's in her body, she's in her breath, she's in her hips, she's in her chest, she's going to be able to be that shoulder to shoulder, breath to breath with me. And I've experienced this in my life where, you know, I felt that disconnect. And it was coming more from a place of manipulation. And I think there's a fine line you're describing, too. Beyond these extreme emotions coming out, or them coming from a place of anger and manipulation, or them coming from a place of really being in the feminine flow. Like really being in that authentic flow. That's a fine line. And I don't know if there's always a guidepost for that.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. The anger and manipulation, those are the two opposites that many women go towards. I myself have used manipulation. And whenever you haven't cleared out your throat chakra and learn how to use your voice and speak your needs, that's one of those steps because we use manipulation, withholding of love, turning our backs, turning away as a way to get the. We think it's a way to get the love we want. Or, huh, I'll show you. You won't get love from me anymore. To get what we want, to get them groveling, to get them coming back, but that either. They may do that, but that if they do grovel and come to you because you're withholding, they're no longer in their masculine. They're no longer being that protector, provider. They have been. The roles are flipped. You are then in the alpha and the polarity is lost. And you want them. You want your partner, your masculine partner to be in his consciousness, to be in his leadership, his protective role. You want that. And so we want to avoid manipulation using body language of turning away. We want to stay open. We also don't want to be flirting in the realms of anger and only anger without any love, that causes extreme pain. And everyone knows that. Who's ever experienced that? Anger coming from a place of. What would the word be? Anger coming from a place of, you're not enough. You're not enough. I'm angry about it. And it's lacking love. It's just. There's no love.

Yeah. It's almost like a communication to the partner, whether it is to the masculine or feminine. Like someone saying, you're not giving me what I need. Therefore, the meaning is that you're not the right fit for me or you're not enough for me, or something like that. And I think the communication styles of this that I've experienced have been not really healthy. There is a way to, in a healthy way, communicate, like, hey, this is a boundary for me. I understand that you have these certain needs, and then turning and facing one another and saying, let's have a real conversation about what is the boundary that you need in order for you to be in your body and not so much in your head. And I think that is the conversation that most people don't want to be. Want to have. It's really getting down to the basement here, Maddie. It's like, can we have the conversation about the healthy boundary? And sometimes that can be more freeing than anything else. You actually just did a post about this. I set boundaries to respect myself, not to offend you. And I love this because you mentioned, like, my boundaries aren't meant to hurt you. They aren't here to harm you. They're not made to control you. That person may feel hurt across the way, but it's really about respecting you and communicating, hey, this is what's going to make me live my greatest life, Be my most tr. Truthful self. Take us to this understanding of how to have the conversation around boundaries and honestly respecting them as well.

Yes. I'm so glad you're bringing this up. Boundaries is something that's very hard for many, many people, men and women. I know I'm specifically talking a lot about the feminine in these instances, but I think this is important. This is very important, because when the feminine can begin to honor her needs, everyone starts honoring their needs. A lot comes from the longing within the feminine, the yearning. There's pleasure in yearning, and that's a catalyst for a lot of change. So if women can learn how to protect their sacred space, I think we'll get a lot more done. I think we'll Start to honor ourselves so much more.

My fist is in the air right now. I'm so excited you're saying this because God give us the practical on that. Like, how do the women listening do that?

Matt, the first thing is understanding where on the spectrum you are. Because if you're so. If you're. If you're really in your feminine, which is wonderful, and you're loving and you're open and you're creative and you're surrendering, you might also be taking on this mother archetype of nurturing. If you don't have boundaries as this nurturer, you often end up giving your energy to so many people, to everyone. The line is really blurry on when do you say no because you're using your head a lot. Again, we're going back to the head stuff. The head stuff might say, okay, well, if I don't take up this shift for this person who's asking me to take a shift, I won't be liked. There's that primal need to be liked again. It's always there, unless we're listening to it and we're listening to how it's getting in the way, because it's not up to us who likes us. That's a surefire way to waste our time here on Earth is to go around trying to control how people view us and if they like us. So the first part is you want to set boundaries for yourself. This isn't to get what you want. As strangely as this sounds, we set boundaries because that's a way we step into our power, saying, I'm going to protect my sacred space. I'm not doing this. This is not okay for me. And your boundaries could look different. Maybe your boundary is there's a certain conversation you won't have with your mom. You're not open discussing who you're dating with your mom. And so if your mom keeps bringing it up, you can be warm and assertive at the same time. That's another thing many people struggle to understand is it's not one of the other. You can't be warm and let everything in or be assertive and keep everything out. You can be warm and assertive. So you can straight up tell her, hey, I understand that you're wanting to dive into this conversation, but I told you this is a private experience. And I will come to you if I ever need you about anything. But this is an off the table topic, and that's you stepping into your power. That's you setting your boundaries. Whether or not the person listens is not up to you. If you're trying to set boundaries solely to get what you want, you're most likely going to end up very frustrated because you can't control how people are responding or how they handle it. And that's why in that photo I mentioned, I can't control whether or not you get offended or you're frustrated or you're hurt. That's a trigger. So if I set a boundary to someone, they might get triggered by it because then they feel like they're not liked. Oh, she doesn't want me calling her every single night at 10pm she must not like me. It's not up to me. If they have that mindset and I could tell them, this is a great example. I had been dating someone, I'm no longer dating them, but I had been dating someone who I would set boundaries with. And consistently every time I set a boundary, it was, was, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I don't mean to do this. I'm sorry I did this. I can do better. And it wasn't about this person doing better and it wasn't about me not liking something in them. The boundary was, for me, it's just self preservation. Or maybe Friday nights are meant for acro yoga, which I love to do. Or it's something about me. And if he's taking it about him, that is up to him. And I can can say kind words and say, it's not about you, it's about me.

This is a powerful point. This is such a powerful point, Maddie, because in that moment where you're enforcing the healthy boundary, and this goes for the men too. You know, I like to collectively speak for all men on the planet here, if you don't mind. Because I understand that really from my own experience and also in just seeing all the conversations that are happening right now around this topic, it's really the flinch. I think people are scared of feeling the discomfort of going to the place where they're articulating the healthy boundary. I think that is the start point for all of this. And I think about, you know, Thanksgiving Day dinners and dating and relationships and all the ways that either a man or a woman does not actually say what their truest, deepest, most honest boundary really is. I'd love for you to tell us why you think that is, because I have my ideas for the masculine. But why do you think that women specifically don't feel like they need to or like they get to articulate their healthy boundary Confrontation.

Really, that word Sums it all up. Confrontation. Because when you speak your truth and you're clearing out that throat chakra and you're speaking your needs, you. You are being confronted with a situation that you may not have the tools to handle with. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if they're going to freak out or they're going to dismiss you or they're going to put you down. For women who have been raised with very dominating fathers, confrontation can be a very scary thing. Because growing up, if you ever spoke your truth, your needs, your questions, your fears to your father, and he didn't take a second to hear you out, and he just bulldozed over it, saying, that's stupid. Get over it. Or you can't date that kind of person. He's an idiot, or something like that. Even though you have love there and he's controlling and dominating your experiences, that kind of confrontation can be very scary, especially when you're small and they are big. And our inner child, that child that had that experience, that's still stored in your nervous system. So getting older, whenever you're now an adult, you're over 21, you're over 18, however old you are, over 45, of course you can set boundaries. You're the adult, but your nervous system doesn't get that. It doesn't have this, oh, I'm an adult now. I can transition to standing in my truth and setting boundaries and acknowledging my worth. That's a huge one. So the idea of confrontation of someone questioning you is scary. One thing I love to remember is that you don't owe anyone an explanation either. So there might be confrontation. You set a boundary. Hey, Grandma, we can't talk about my weight. Grandma might say, but if you just lose five pounds, if you just lose ten pounds, maybe you'll get a man. You don't owe anything else beyond that. See what happens. Just see what happens. That is confrontation. You don't owe more of a conversation. You can walk away. You can say, oh, I'm gonna go grab an extra plate of food, or oh, I'm go. Blah, blah, blah. Do you need anything in the kitchen? You can end it right there. There are ways to maneuver around these things without being hurtful to anyone. There's no need to put grandma down. But you don't also don't have to engage in this kind of behavior. This confrontation doesn't have to be this big, scary thing like it felt whenever you were and you were looking up at your very tall, scary dad?

Yes. Oh, my gosh. This nonviolent communication. I'm gonna link this in the show notes as well. It's something that I'm. I know I'm gonna take the course at some point. And it's a way to articulate our thoughts, even if they are uncomfortable while we're not lighting a bomb in the living room. Because sometimes, I mean, Maddie, in these moments where we're speaking about a healthy boundary or really speaking our truth, it can activate a childhood nervous system that feels like we're about to die. I mean, and then if we feel like we're about to die, we're probably not gonna say any kind of language. That's open. That's explorative. I think this is really the basement of the basement here. It's, like, for the men listening. And I know in my experience in relationship, when I'm triggered, when I feel like I don't know what to do. Because the feminine can be, you know, pretty intense sometimes, to say the least. Right? And this is actually why we love them, is because, you know, we don't like the ocean because it's all still all the time. We love the waves. We go to the ocean. We enjoy the stillness and the waves and everything else. But sometimes, Maddie, in those moments, it can be so intense that it's actually the man's practice, it's our men's work as conscious men to be able to truly hold space. And this phrase of holding space, I almost don't want to say it because it's been kind of, like, bastardized. Truly holding space means that you just are present. And I think that's what the feminine needs the most. And it's a skill set for the masculine that needs to grow. It really needs to grow. And I'm curious how you see from men this can be something they can grow In a world of instant gratification. What the feminine truly needs is space being held. Yet that's not an instant gratification thing. You have to go through the fire in order to get to the cool.

God, I just got, like, shivers down my spine. I love this conversation. I could do this all day long with you.

It's so good, because we're really hitting on the truth here. I think that's why we're both resonating with this.

Yeah. So the whole, like, how to go about this? It's one of those situations of chicken and the egg. Not that you're saying this. Sorry, my thoughts are racing so fast. Not that you're saying this. I Want to make it clear that I do think this is a together effort. Like you were saying earlier. Us too. We too. We too. We're doing this together. So as the feminine is stepping into that very, very, very fearful space of showing, revealing, bearing her heart and soul, nipples facing forward like headlights right into you, you can't drop her because she's doing something very scary. She's revealing. Revealing is terrifying. You cannot drop her. So through the tears, through the anger, the tantrum, the pouting, the smiling, the laughing, whatever's going on, in her experience, you hold that presence for her. Let her know you are here. And that was one of the things over the weekend that I experienced that was so powerful for me. One of the experiences, one of the workshops was when we did this movement exercise. A man and a woman paired off. And basically it was an hour and a half of straight eye contact, not flinching or looking away once for an hour and a half. Discipline. Yeah, there was a lot of that over the weekend. It was several sessions that were hours long of eye contact. And I was with this one particular person, and we were going back and forth between our different energies. Specifically for the female Kali, this rage, Kali energy and the Queen. So this queen that is so in her power and so in her essence, and she's willing to chop off a head for her love, fully embodying it. And so we showed. We revealed. We didn't talk. We just showed what that looked like. So I was going back and forth between my Kali and Queen because he was telling me to. He was like, kali, more Kali, more Kali. So I'm stomping my feet, I'm breathing fire, and then he's like, queen, give me queen. So then I get my queen. And that's another thing that was very powerful, is to feel safe in his commands, in his demand, because he was keeping the presence for me, if I was with someone that was looking at another woman in the sacred circle we were doing, not with me. I feel so uncomfortable. Not to say you have to hold eye contact for an hour and a half in order to make this happen.

Yeah, that's pretty intense.

But do hold. It is intense. Do hold eye contact throughout the experience as best as you can, because that really does provide this feeling of, I've got you, I'm here. I'm not looking away. I'm not turning away from your rage. I'm not turning away from your queen. I can handle her. I can handle her. And at the very end of all of this, one of the things John was Saying, and I think David Data says this a lot too, is that when a woman is being totally God fucked, she's going to be mindless, like mind. Like she. Her mind won't be there anymore. She's so lost in that feeling of presence. It's a very, very.

What is God fucked? What does that mean?

Godfuck, from the way I would describe it, and I encourage everyone to read David Data's work, is when you are so intensely penetrated by consciousness through the masculine. So when the masculine is really there with you. Holding presence, eye contact, facing you. Same thing. Nipples or headlights, facing you. Holding that presence and looking into my eyes, seeing my love, we're deeply, deeply connected. And that's the experience of being God fucked. You're like being fucked by the divine's infinite consciousness. It's so powerful and you get lost in it.

This sounds so powerful. Now, whoever, hey, whoever has made it this long, like, they understand that, like that kind of a phrase is probably what they truly want. And that's what all women want. Don't you think? All women want to be God fucked?

Yes. And I'll tell you, Josh, I heard this for the first time about a year and a half ago, God fucked. And I was like, like, no, like I can't hear the word God with the word fucked. Like, I was so turned off and I was like, this is where you lose me. I'm not about this. That's sacrilegious. This is not okay. And that's all fine. If anyone's hearing this and having that experience, it could be showing you something. I don't know what it's showing you, but I think it's something to either be kind to yourself about and fully embrace not accepting that, and that's fine. And it also could be an invitation to look in further if you're interested in this. And the experience of being God fucked is mind blowing. And keep in mind, we had clothes on during all this time.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds fantastic.

Yeah. And going back to the mindless thing, that's exactly what I experienced. I've never experienced anything like this. And it's because he was holding so much presence for me. And at the end of the hour and a half when we were all done, and just the heightened energy and the intensity and I'm like raging and this and that. John was saying, okay, men, now guide her back into the inner circle and do not drop her. Do not drop her. That didn't mean physically, don't drop me on the floor. That meant don't look away, hold the eye contact. Let me know you're still here for me. Even throughout all that, even through seeing my rage and my bitch and my queen and my collie and my sadness and my tears and my dance, you're still there. You're still there. I can still trust you.

The power of this for me is that I'm flashing back to a very powerful conversation I had with Johnny Blackburn. Episode 149. If you're loving Maddie and I's conversation, you will love this from Johnny because we talked about this understanding of somatic awareness. And as we kind of get to the end of the conversation, I would love to give people this gift of what you've learned about actually naming it and taming it, these emotions that we're feeling. You know, I love the way you talked about breath unlocking everything else we do as far as owning our feelings, as far as actually feeling them. But do you have a practice that you go through now that you could share with us around somatic awareness? In other words, do you have a scanning mechanism? What do you do when you're feeling something? How do you actually name it and tame it?

Yes, Yes, I do. I'm so excited to share it. So I, I do a 10 minute pleasure practice. And for anyone who's like, what does it mean to feel pleasure in your body? I don't get it. I so feel you. I so feel you. When we are trained and taught to stay away from pleasure, turn off the pleasure because we don't want to give it away. We don't want to share it with the world. Many of us have lost where it lives. And pleasure can be anything you're experiencing. It doesn't even have to be touching yourself. It doesn't have to be touching your neck, it doesn't have to be touching your leg. It doesn't have to be intimate touch. It could just be the delicious popping of your spine in the morning whenever you're twisting your body out. It could be experiencing your fingers between your toes or not even touching your toes, just, just rotating, rotating your ankles and feeling that kind of stretch. Does it feel good? Like finding pleasure in the places you can in your body, wherever it is, and not forcing it, just getting excited and curious about where it could be. And so I turn on music. I turn on sexy tunes. I've got this awesome playlist if anyone's interested, on Spotify. It's called Soft Love. I can give you the link. Josh and everyone can download. It's so good. It's my Favorite playlist for Sexy time. It's more of, like, softer tunes, but I will turn that on and I will spend just about 10 minutes, 15 minutes. Starting with breath. That's it. And then slowly. Where is the pleasure in my body? I might start with chest circles. I might then go to hip circles. Sometimes I can end up getting off my bed or off my mat and fully dancing. But it's not about being sensual or sexual. It's about locating pleasure. It's different. If it was a practice of being sexual, then I would be focused on dance. Probably focused on dance or specific types of touch. When I'm just locating pleasure, I'm just looking for spots in my body that feel good and finding them. Because if the goal in life is to be able to feel pleasure at the same time, you have every other human experience, you first must know how to locate that pleasure. So having a pleasure practice of just getting back in touch with your body.

Now, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, though, because as you're doing the awareness of dance and finding the pleasure in your body, are you also open to finding the discomfort where there's stored emotion that's not so happy. That's not so juicy.

Absolutely. That's even deepening your practice this morning. Yesterday. Yesterday I had a pleasure practice. And if you were to fly on the wall, I started with this breath and, like, moving and. And I started bawling and then cracking up. And then bawling and then cracking up.

This sounds like Kali and Queen all over again.

It was so good. It was so good. And then I started laughing harder because I was like, man, this is amazing. It's amazing to feel so angry and so upset and so despaired at the same time that I'm locating joy in that experience. There's an emotional allotment that's happening within that. Sometimes we get angry, but we don't give ourselves a full emotional allotment for that anger. We're mad. Surface. On the surface. We're angry, we're upset. But are we really 100% allowing ourselves to indulge in that experience of anger? Sometimes we're, like, caught in between, like, angry. But we really need to be happy and perky and pretty and sweet. We need to be all those things we were told when we were kids, I'm angry, but I can't really be angry. Like, we're battling our natural emotions. So what if you're having this pleasure practice and all you experience is pain? All right, game on. Feel that pain, but feel it as fully as possible. Like, almost indulge in the pain. Allow yourself to go there and experience pleasure through the pain. Not around it, not under it, through it. Find pleasure in your body, in that shoulder, in your neck, in your eyelids, at the same time that you're raging.

This is a cool visual for us, too. I want to give people a place where they can actually start doing this work. You know, it's one thing to feel the energy and all the magnetism in our conversation, because, like, I actually was sitting in the first 20 minutes of our talk. I've been standing for the past 30 because I've just been, like, using my hands to talk to you, like, feeling truly energized by this, because I really believe this is a narrative that gets to happen. This is just a refraction of what I want want for hundreds of thousands of conversations like this, Maddie. And I just so love the way that you're able to go to these places. And yet I don't sense that there's anger and that there's resentment about your past and about going to the masculine side of life. Really, for so long, you had this masculine energy. How have you transcended that? Because I know women are thinking about that as we wrap the show here. What are some things they can do based on your own learnings of letting go of just this, like, masculine energy that you felt you had to do and now being in more feminine and free flow?

Yeah. Such a good question. I am so grateful to my masculine because it's why I have a business. It's why I can be a coach. It's why I can hold containers. It's why my apartment is squeaky clean. Because I like organization. Like, it served me so much. And I think that's really important, too, is sometimes women start to get angry at their masculine side, the part of them that wants to get so much done. And it's a beautiful quality. And I think that's first and foremost, really essential that you can acknowledge it and even shift a little bit. Because some people, when they hear masculine, what they're really thinking of is the deranged masculine or the toxic masculine. Maybe perfectionism, where the ego is involved. That's not the pure version of the masculine. The masculine wants to protect, protect, provide. It wants to be the sun, active. So many beautiful qualities. So in order to surrender more, everyone right now has opportunities to step more into their flow and to receive more help. Receive more help. Wow. This is a huge struggle for so many women who are living in this hustle culture. So many men too. But the job of helplessness is more for the women we want to begin to even fake it till you make it. This isn't about authentically being helpless, can't even get out of bed. But looking for more opportunities in your day to day life where you can be helped. Don't open your door at every time you're walking through a door, if someone's around, allow them to open it for you. Say thank you. Look for the trusted masculine. Look for instances in your life where you can trust the masculine. If a man opens the door for you, that is a beautiful example of a trusted masculine. He's doing something for you. Are you going to fight it and say, no, no, no, I can get my own door. Are you going to get pissed off that they open the door for you? If you're doing that, you're staying in the alpha role. And these roles can be energetic. You can move between them sometimes. You're good. I'm so in my alpha in a lot of instances in life when I'm working. But then I go back into omega, which I take a step back. I allow the universe to provide for me. I trust and I surrender in my helplessness. And this is a challenge for me. I'm not coming at this as an expert in helplessness. I was raised to do it myself, to get it done, to be in my masculine, to be perfect. And so my journey right now is to be in the journey of helplessness. Doesn't mean I can't do the things, doesn't mean I don't know how to do things, but it means I'm opening up the doors for the masculine, for polarity. Because whenever that kind of polarity exists, not only do we start to believe again in the trusted masculine, but we start to be more in our feminine, in our ability to feel soft because we know we can trust and we won't be dropped.

Maddie. And that's what perpetuates more of the masculine, of the men in this world stepping up to the plate and holding space. Because we see you doing your work work, you see us doing ours. This is really the feedback mechanism. This is the loving loop that's being created in our world. And I am so stoked that you are one of the voices who is putting out this narrative of how do we do this together? Instead of, hey, guys, shields, swords, let's keep those up for another hundred years. No, we can actually put the weapons down now. Mind Body Musings is your podcast. People can learn more about you@maddiemoon.com Maddie, I just want to acknowledge for the work that you do in the world, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you, going on your show and just having you share the tip of the tip of the iceberg. From your learnings and your knowledge, where are you the most active and where can we learn more about you besides your website?

Oh, thank you so much, Josh. Seriously, this has been so much fun. I really, really, really love our conversations because they're so juicy. The best place to connect with me besides my podcast and my website will be Instagram, and that is Madelyn Moon. M A D E L Y in.

Moon Maddie, thanks so much for the show. And our last question for you is about this intersection of all the things we've talked about and then some. Everything from masculine, feminine to healthy boundaries to Kali and Queen to being an embodied woman in this world and also men stepping up to the plate. Where do you see wellness playing into this? In other words, what's your definition of wellness this year and into the next?

Oh, and the toughest question is where do I see wellness coming? Coming in? Okay, I'm going to say the answer that's coming to me right now is it sounds so simple, probably pretty overused, but the phrase honor your body is taking a new level for me. There has been honor your body as in respect your needs for food and sleep. But I am starting to honor my body in a completely new level of intimacy with life. So I'm honoring what I'm eating to a new level because I know integrity, integrity, but also honoring my body as in allowing this pleasure to live within my body. That is the definition of honoring my body right now is allowing it to feel good and not stifle it from feeling good. That's been punishment. I thought I'd been honoring my body, but when I really turn away from feeling good in its core or the most basic definition of feeling good, pleasure and instead moving towards pain, choosing pain, choosing to close and to turn off. That's not wellness. Wellness is allowing yourself to feel good in the moment because you are human and it is human right to feel that pleasure doesn't have to be earned and it's not taken, it's expressed and expressed freely. So that's my answer. That's where I'm moving.

Such a great answer. And I know we're going to have another conversation about this at some point, point this year or into the next. Thanks for coming on the show again, Maddie.

Thank you.

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