212 Conner Moore: The Art of Realness

I like to add value to people through conversation and, and be really intriguing in some fun ways. And I find value in that. And I think it's. I have to be careful with my ego there. It's like not to. Not to need to be validated through social media. I love connecting with people. So for me in social media, it's like I think of it as this physical representation of who I actually am and it's just another aspect of. Of personal, personal expression and needs to be very genuine. Checking in with my alignment and my intentions behind what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Even with the show, like, it's.

It's.

If we can have a valuable conversation and create good content together, then let's get on the show. It doesn't matter if you have 100,000 Instagram followers or a thousand because at the end of the day, it's like some of the most impactful people in the world don't give a shit about social media and they're bringing an awesome version of themselves to the world.

That's Connor Moore, and this is Episode 212 of Wellness Force Radio. What's up, my friend? It's your host, Josh Trent. And welcome back to another episode for your weekly access to global experts in all things wellness as we discover the physical and emotional intelligence we need to live life well. What's up, everybody? In this podcast, I got to travel out to Austin, Texas. Have you ever been to the Texas State? The heat out there is absolutely no joke. But also what I found in Texas was some of the most interesting minds in our wellness world. And today on the show, we're talking with my friend and fellow podcast host, Connor Moore. From the Realness show, we discuss this art form of being real in a world where downloads, social media and clicks can portray connection. Yet millions of Americans and their deepest cores are lacking the connection. This art of realness, it's not actually present. What's most fascinating about today's show is that when you see Conor, he is a beast of a man. Yet on the inside, his intersection of strength training, philosophy and altered states of consciousness have given him an unquenchable thirst for human optimization and getting down to the truth. The realness, as he calls it, this art form that both men and women are not truly embodying in our current digitally focused world. I'm sure you know what we're touching on here. It's the phone in your pocket or on the dashboard right now while you're driving. On one hand, it connects us. And on the other hand, it satisfies segments of our ancient brain and to give us kind of the fake feeling that we're connected but leaving us more alone than ever before. And the reality is, is that if we can take loving ownership of our state and push away the distractions from digital devices, we can then operate from a place of realness. And the best way to do that in our busy life is to pull the biggest lever we have for the autonomic nervous system. So this is your breath break. Take a deep one. Fill your belly with air. You deserve a deep one. Take as many deep breaths as you need. And remember, you can always go here through throughout your busy day to stack your environment in your favor. Along with your breath, you can also use micronutrients to give you the internal energy without always going to the caffeine. I know we've always been there, right? At like 2pm the coffee machine seems so attractive and sexy. But step away from the coffee maker and instead use the green or red juice from our show sponsor Organifi. I've actually been down for the count for the past 10 days with a torn calf muscle. Before interviewing Kyle Kingsbury from onit on a media trip to la. I tore my calf muscles sprinting. So needless to say, I've had a ton of downtime and I've been stacking my red juice because the Reishi and the Cordyceps mushrooms are in there in the micronutrient complex now. The coolest thing about medicinal mushrooms like cordyceps is that they actually have a natural ability to fight free radicals and inflammation, which is something I'm currently experiencing. So if you're nursing an injury or you just want more energy throughout your day, head over to Organifi.com WellnessForce use code WellnessForce. You get 20% off your entire cart for less than three bucks a day, which is actually way cheaper than an expensive Starbucks coffee or a $10 whole food smoothie. You can get this Micronutrient Rich Superfoods powder use code wellnessforce for the deep discount 20% over@organifi.com wellnessforce you can also tap your show artwork and the link is right there in purple. So now getting into the podcast with Connor, you'll learn about getting in touch with your shadow self. How Connor uses Morning Pages, a specific journaling practice that can cultivate more self awareness. How Connor used his adolescent struggles to work for him instead of against him through Spec Life practices. What emotional intelligence trainings Connor has seen give him the most benefit how we can uncover our triggers that easily get us caught up through dynamic self reflection and why we don't have to kill the ego. We hear a lot about this in the personal development world. Connor believes we actually get to dance with it. We also talk about practical uses of plant medicine for personal growth and so much more. Make sure you give Connor Moore a shout out on social media. Let him know you heard his story right here on Wellness Force Radio. Now let's drop in with the one and only Connor Moore, live in Austin, Texas, where you.

You. Look at you located in San Diego.

San Diego. Yes. The double clap.

Enough clap for both of us.

Dude, I am so stoked to be in your house. This is so fun.

Finally.

Thanks for having me, man.

Of course.

Oh, my gosh. You know, this conversation could go, like, probably 15,000 places.

It might do that.

But let's start with the Realness, because you're all about the realness, man. Dude, the Realness Media. You just made a shift.

I made a shift.

And we went.

We went from Pleasure Monkey, so Pleasure Monkey podcast, to what is now the Realness Media. And the reason we did that, dude, it's funny. I knew that a name change was necessary, and Pleasure Monkey was a fun place to start, and it gave me essentially, like, wide open rain to do whatever I wanted to do, which let me bring what I love doing to the surface, which is essentially facilitating really authentic conversations with interesting people. You know, we like to create ridiculously impactful content so it's. We can talk about things like open relationships and threesomes and plant medicine and spirituality and fitness, but it's all through this lighthearted lens, and it's been extremely, extremely fun. And I knew I was ready to change the name for about a month or two before we actually made the shift. And I was on a friend of mine's podcast, and I had been asking people that were fans of the show what sets it apart. And he said, I love the realness of it and the funny synchronicity there. That phrase kind of stuck with me. And I was like, I know that phrase. And I realized that I had named my first CrossFit blog in 2011 the Realness. And that was because my number one value then and now is authenticity. I think if you don't have authenticity leading the way for you, then everything else is just bullshit.

Yeah.

So from there, I mean, it was full steam ahead. Let's make the Realness happen. And I actually have a kettlebell downstairs that I got gifted to me in, like, 2012. That says the realness on it. It was by a professional artist and we did, like a work trade.

What was the Pleasure Monkey then? Because Pleasure Monkey podcast was what I first knew you from.

Yeah.

And that was all about exploring, like, not just the hedonistic values of life, but like everything else that's included with being a monkey. Because people forget this, man. We're like half beast, half spirit. Did you talk about in the show and what's the big difference with the Chef?

There's not. There's not a ton of difference in the content, to be honest with you. It's more about the way that it's growing and who I'm reaching. Like, Pleasure Monkey just has this kind of. It has a little bit of a hedonistic spin to it.

Yeah.

And that was something I was. I was leaving that behind. And it's funny because I've made that shift in my life as well. Right. It's like, it's understanding the deep. The deep pleasures, and it's hard to run. And you look at this and I say deep pleasures, and that's. That's the ones that you have to work for. Right. I mean, there's. There's like strippers and cocaine pleasure. Right. Which is one. One facet. And this isn't.

That leads to a big ass dead end, though.

Exactly, exactly. There's a. There's a place for it. It's like sprinkling sugar in it, you know, it's like there's a. There's a place for sugar in the world and it's not in everything. Right. And there was something that really started to be a dissonance between the perception of what just Pleasure Monkey means. And then my philosophy, which is really, your life is defined by what you'll sacrifice for, like, what you'll really give up. And you're gonna be making decisions. Like, that's one of the most beautiful things about life, that you get to choose your sacrifices like that. That's amazing. And to say that and have this Pleasure Monkey piece, like, there just wasn't. It wasn't really resonating in the same way that it didn't feel authentic to me.

Yeah.

And actually I was working with a guy named Dan Houston from Mind Tribes, and I was talking this through with him. This. I just started working with him. I was like a weekend to this four month coaching program, which is incredible. And it's been really, really, really fun. And he goes, well, it just kind of sounds like you're being inauthentic and.

Your biggest value is authenticity.

And I was like. It, like, stabbed me in the chest, but it stabbed me in the chest with absolute truth. It was like, oh, like I was doing this. And then I started being very inquisitive about my intentions, and it kind of unraveled me in a really fun way. And I started to realize, you know, who am I being? And then who am I being? Because that's what somebody else wanted me to be.

Yeah.

And when you start to pull on that thread, like, it gets really, really fun.

So then who wanted you to be something different? What do you think that came from? Was somebody influencing you with pleasure? Monkey? Like, what?

Yeah, I mean, it was. That was actually, like, Aubrey's idea, right? Really, Aubrey? Yeah. So it wasn't. I mean, that's really. It's really in alignment with his. With his brand. And he still uses that phrase all the time if you own the day.

Which is a. I definitely read it. I loved it. We had him on the show, and I think I. We are monkeys at some level. And it's funny because people think about the monkey being, like, purely hedonistic. It's not true.

Like, no.

What's your contrast, man? How do you explain that we are half monkey, half beast, and also half spirit? Like, how do you balance that in your life?

Me personally. Oh, man. I guess. Who else would you be talking to?

The dog? The other Connor behind me.

So there's something about that. I think the big piece with me comes down to not being ashamed of yourself. Right. It's not being ashamed of the fact that, like, we have a propensity for really violent acts.

Dude.

It's funny. I saw that. I was watching. I was re. Watching Inglorious Bastards the other day, and it was funny because I think I just finished reading 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson or something like that. So I was in a really cool mind space and I had been changing all these things. It was like my Sunday night. Like, I don't. Like, I have every now and then. I'll need these times I'm just gonna watch a movie by myself, my phone off, and it's just me. It's me time. I can just kind of unplug. And I started watching this, thinking I'm literally capable of every role of this movie in some form of life somewhere. This was not that long, long ago. Like, I could be the guy shooting up the movie theater. I could also be a Nazi. And that's to understand that you have. That is deep inside of you somewhere. And in certain circumstances, you could Be any of those people. It gives you a certain sense of. And it seems negative, but it gives you a certain sense of openness to who everyone can be and that everyone has a shadow, and that's okay. And you have a lot more compassion. It's easier to tap into compassion for others. And I think that is the duality. It's understanding that there's a shadow in everything and everything has this kind of dark response to it. And you can, you can view it through the beauty of the, of the strength of it. You can, you can really view that. Like, you can think that if you're extremely compassionate, that's fucking awesome. It means that you probably also have a propensity to be kind of naive, and that's okay too.

Yes.

But if you can view it through like, I choose to be naive, I'd rather be naive sometimes than not compassionate at a high level.

And Peterson contrasts this with agreeable and disagreeable, masculine, feminine. So to deny. And Jung talks about this too, right? The shadow self. Everybody knows this. To deny that we have a shadow self and at least not to be in touch with that shadow self is to actually deny the fabric that we're human beings. This half beast, half spirit. So this shadow self dance, bro, I almost feel like it's probably the most challenging dance for all of us, men or women. What practices do you have in your life to be in touch with your shadow?

Oh, dude, journaling. Journaling has been the most profound practice that I've implemented in my life in the last 10 years. I would say, I mean, outside of like actually, you know, fitness and meditation too. But I would even say in my life, journaling is as is the. It takes the number one.

How long you've been journaling?

Two years. Well, really technically four. But like really getting into the journaling practice and doing morning pages for two. So I have a.

What's the morning pages again? What is that?

So it's a free flowing two to three pages of just whatever's on your mind, really. It's just like letting it go.

Like a brain dump.

Exactly. First thing in the morning.

In the morning you just put it out there and you're not allowed to have your pencil leave the paper.

I haven't, I haven't actually read the book that it came from a friend recommended to me. And it's like you're not allowed to. The whole thing is they don't overthink what you're putting on the page.

Yeah, right.

I got. I don't know what the actual Tim.

Ferriss talks about this line where he'll just kind of get all the shit out of his head. Yeah. By putting it on paper.

Yeah.

How long have you actually been noticing the changes then? So it's been two years of journaling.

Yeah.

Have you noticed any changes in your life?

Oh, dude, it's been. It's been incredible. It's the funniest thing. Like, it's. It gave me one of the biggest gifts, and this is clarity. It gave me a tool. It's like, oh, hey, you want to get clear on something, write it out. Because it slows you down and it makes it real. Like, that's the thing about the stories that play in our head is they just bounce around all over the place. And we edit our memories and we create narratives around things that don't really exist. And if you can put it on paper, you can see, like, oh, wow, that really has merit. Or, wow, that's completely delusional.

Yeah.

And if you can. And it creates objectivity in your own thought process because you're staring at it. You know that. And even voice memos on your phone are really powerful for the same thing. Like, I have this thought. Let me put it out there and hear myself say it.

Yes. And.

And it's been. Oh, dude, it's. It's given me so much clarity, and I think not even. I think, like, I know, like, confidence in the decisions that I'm making. And that's. When you have confidence in the decisions you're making, you can take a lot bolder action.

How much of this lack of confidence do you see specifically in men? Dude, I'd love to break this down with you. The masculine part of our lives. And I was just talking to Mansell about this. We have lost as men, as a collective, Our. Our connection with this kind of murderous internal warrior. Right. And it doesn't mean we need to be an asshole in public, but we've lost touch with this primal deep burning that a lot of men naturally should have. But yet we're seeing this pendulum swing where for so many millennia, women were owned, like, property, and they were pushed down and then couldn't vote. And literally, they were just, like, succumbed to the force of men being in control the whole time. And now. Now we're seeing in the past three years, the pendulum has overcorrected and swung so far to the feminine empowering. And I'm not dissing the me Too movement, but it's like, what if it was we two instead of me too? Right?

Yeah.

How do you think and do you talk about this on your show? I'm sure in your circles here in Austin, man, this conversation of. Me, too. And we, too, contrast that with people losing their masculine power.

Yeah. That's what the masculine power is really interesting to play with because there's so much of it that it's understanding that masculine and feminine are different, that they are different, and they're both beautiful in their own way. Right. And that's something that I love to talk about, because it's not about. It's not about us being the same.

Yeah.

You know, and I think that women have a right to be pissed, you know, and as a white dude, I'm like, where I'm gonna go with this? But it's. Yeah, of course. Like Mad Men again.

Like I said, Don Draper was an.

Asshole in Glorious Bastards wasn't that long ago. And that kind of craziness happened, and there's complete injustice there. But then also, like, Mad Men wasn't that long ago either, when it was office girls and colored people. And it was. We've come from a culture of oppression from a. For a long time. And I think one thing that's really important when we come to understanding this is the pendulum swing is a great analogy, because it's going to kind of go back and forth, and there's going to be this kind of outrage wage and then resurgence. And usually it'll settle out in this middle ground. And I think just like life, when it comes to this, this kind of us versus them, it's like, hey, guys, let's just understand that we're. We're in. We're just trying. Everybody's trying to figure it out. Like, I shouldn't be villainized for being a white dude, and you shouldn't be oppressed for being a woman. That neither one of those things make any sense.

Yeah.

And then kind of reclaiming. Reclaiming the masculine is understanding that expression, like healthy masculine expression will get you into a place where you feel genuine and authentic with that. You know, I think I talk about this. I was at a. I was at a party in San Diego, and it was actually in Encinitas. So, like, the spiritual capital of the world. Yes.

It's in the bubble. That's where I live.

Right. And then. And they. I feel like in that. In that world that there's a lot of very masculine females, which is awesome. Also super attractive to me. And there's a lot of. There's a lot of very feminine men, effeminate men. And I think they've. They've glorified in the. In the spiritual world and the conscious communities of the world, like. Like, men being a little soft. And there was a guy, and I was on a handful of substances, and I was like, I really just want to let this guy just, like, fucking punch me in the chest. Like, I. Like, he needs it. It won't hurt me. I'll be fine. But it's like, this guy just needs to, like, let it out. Let's do the thing. And it's like, not. Not even from a place of, like, I want to fight him. That was not it. That never crossed my mind. It's like, I think this guy just needs to, like, fucking do the thing. Like, pick up the thing. Like, go, hey, go. Grab that sandbag and move it A to B, right? And I think physical expression is really, really powerful in that way. And that's why I think we see it with. With dance, with CrossFit, with weightlifting, with whatever. It's like the being able to physically express yourself is. Is your whole life under a microscope and whatever that may be. And it makes. It kind of primes up the pathways for conversation, for relationships, for connection, for listening. Like, all that stuff is very important. But a lot of times it starts working out and then working in.

This is how I found my path, dude. I lost 80 pounds. And what actually led me to even doing Wellness Force and having this PO was my connection to my physical self. I had lost it, like, in high school. I played football, and then I lost a bunch of weight, and then I did it the wrong way. And then I sold everything I owned and moved to Hawaii and just got back in touch with my body, like, surfing, hiking, and fishing and just like, being in my masculine body. Right? And so this is actually our responsibility as men right now so that we can help course correct that pendulum. Otherwise, like, somebody in a relationship has to hold the masculine power. They have to, right? If the trash doesn't get taken out, the light bulb doesn't get screwed in, if, like, things aren't, you know, being built in the house, like, somebody's got to do it. And so I don't have any animosity or resentment towards these women that are deeper in their masculine. I just think that they're exhausted. And Paul, Paul, Chuck talks about this. He calls it successful white woman's disease. And it could be any color woman, but women weren't designed to do all of these things. 360 across the wheel. Men that have lost their physical power are also not taking care of the masculine edge. In a relationship. I think that's really what's going on, man.

Yeah.

Dude.

And you want that, you want a polarity there. Like you. And you need to be able to be tapped in enough to yourself and your partner or your people even. Just not even your partner, just the people around you.

Yeah.

To know that you can maintain a polarity. But there needs to be some kind of the distance there to close. Like fire needs air. I love that. And you gotta, you gotta be able to notice what's going on. And when you're out of your masculine. When you're in it. And for the females as well, it goes back and forth and sometimes you can lose that polarity, end up in this like neutral place. And it's really challenging. And that's one thing. It's funny whenever I'm around really successful women. Like successful white women. Is that what you said?

Successful white woman's disease. But it could be any, any color. Any color woman.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. It's funny because I, I feel like I'm. I'm a large, very masculine looking man. And I've had this conversation before too with, with Samantha Lotus. It's like there's a fine line to walk with that because I look very masculine. It's easier for me to be feminine in my personality and my expression because I'm not going to be emasculated. Does that make sense?

How so? What do you mean?

Yeah, so I think there's, there's, there's snap judgments. Right. Like there's a physical perception of you that gets registered before anybody even knows you. Like, a lot of people will say that I'm like a fuckboy. They look like I look like a fuck boy.

Six, four train coming through the door.

Yeah. I'm also loud and very gregarious because I was a fat kid and I never got, I got zero attention. How did you weigh? I hit 200 pounds in like the sixth grade. So I got up like 240.

Okay.

And. And then I lost so much weight in sophomore year high school. But I was always. There was a lot of insecurity there. And so I didn't get a lot of attention. And then I did. And. But the reason that my social currency became just being a little bit outlandish, which is kind of where the realness comes from. It's like, let's just, let's, let's get some attention by being a little bit ridiculous, but then attach really impactful concepts to that as well.

I have that connection with you, man. This Is my same story in high school.

So funny.

And it wasn't until I found athletics that I really tapped into where all that kind of pent up energy was coming from. Where was your pent up energy coming from, dude?

I mean, really, a lot of it had to do with my relationship with my mom, if I come back to it. And there was a lot of like helplessness there. It's strange because growing up, like, I've had a very, I've had a very interesting like context on the world from, from my upbringing. Like my grandparents raised me from five year old, five years old on. And they were super loving and awesome. I mean, they were grandparents, so they like had I had a grandparent relationship with them. Sure they were. They raised me. And my mom and dad were both addicts. So it was strange to have this really loving, like home life that was kind of confusing. And then my mom would come back in the picture as an addict and you get this kind of, I'm 6, 7, 8 years old and you get this, everything's gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be fine. I'm better now. And you believe that because you're seven and you don't know any better. And they disappear again for months and you're like, you just learned this really strange, like you had this really strange relationship with yourself and you blame yourself and shame yourself a lot.

Damn. How many people listening or watching can relate to that? What happens from our imprinting when we're conception to 10 is actually the most important time in the world.

Exactly.

So knowing that, what did adolescence and teenagehood look like?

Yeah, so there was a lot of. I never, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I'd never, but it was hard for me to really genuinely speak up for myself. Like I was literally just. I was ridiculous. I would make the most ridiculous jokes. I would say things most people wouldn't say. And I was hiding behind that for a lot of my life. And I don't think I've actually ever shared that on a podcast before. So this is the exclusive.

Hell yeah.

But. But yeah, I work in the realness. And then my mom was. She got her shit together when I was like 17, you know, and you would never know. Now we actually have a really good relationship thanks to the Realness podcast. She listened to it and it was funny. She got to listen to all the things that I would have wanted to say to her, but she couldn't hear from my mouth directly to her because it became a blame game. And there was a lot of a lot of internal angst there. And then she listened to the podcast I did with Caitlin Howe, which is. She has a lot of the same patterns. And from that experience, like, our relationship has completely changed.

Dude, what do you think that kid needed? Because I know, looking back on my life, like, the kid that I needed actually healed as an adult recently. Arrhythmia. I put my arm around him. But what did your young man need?

We're gonna have to go back to that. Because I thought for sure, you know, I think that somebody. If I could go back and talk to myself, and this is something I've always wanted to do, and I'm sure it'll happen in some form or fashion, is just to let myself know, like, it's okay to be big. And that's. In a lot of ways, like, I was. We talked about this when we talk about dancing and physical expression. Like, I've only started dancing in the past, like, two or three years. I'm 31. Right. Like, I would. I couldn't hide anywhere. So if I was, like, big and awkward and I couldn't. It was.

It was.

It was just a lot of, like, trying to be small. Like, I wanted so badly to be small and never. And it took me until I was, like, in my late 20s to embrace just being a big personality and a big guy and having a big fucking smile and being loud and giving big hugs. This is all new. It's almost like a new game for me.

Yeah.

So I think that would. That would have given me a lot of. A lot of comfort. And then also knowing that. And I know this now, but if I could have ra. If I could have understood that my mom was doing the best she could. I know that now. Like, she was doing. She. She had. She got knocked. She got pregnant when she was 19. Right. Like, she, you know, plays. And in her life up to that point had been really challenging as well. And it's like she. She meant what she said. She just didn't.

She didn't.

It gave me so much compassion at this point in my life to see somebody try that hard and have that much trouble with it and then live their life with that shame for a long time and still be working through that. Like, it's given me a skill in holding space and being able to listen and not judge people that I'm extremely thankful for. But I think if I could have understood that back then that it wasn't my fault and that she was just. That was a part of the. That was a part of the life that I was going to be grateful for at some point. I would have loved to have heard.

That, dude, this has come through for me. And thank you for sharing that, man. Because I think about the way that, that, you know, we have these kind of blades of adversity that stab us sometimes early in life. And then really it's our work, our emotional intelligence, our spiritual work, to allow like the blood of gratitude to bleed out. Yeah. You know, and I felt that in the seal fit event, the Mark Divine event. It was like a 14 hour crucible. I cried afterwards. I was hugging all the guys that I had done the event with and I was like, oh. It was that physical crucible that actually unlocked my tears and my gratitude for just being alive and being connected to my men and my people. And there was actually a few women that did it too. But, but what are your practices, man? Like, do you have physical practices? And I know we're going to talk about plants at some point, but do you have like just the physical practices that people listening could, could go to, to develop that intuitiveness within themselves?

When you mean physical practice, are you talking about like training, like a seal.

Fit or like training or maybe even breathing Holotropic? There's so many different tools out there right now. It's such an exciting time to be alive. Yeah, but what are your go to? Like, what's, what's Connor's go to?

It's funny that you say that because there's, there's a. Several. Right. And it's everything about physically getting out there. For me, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna tap into masculine specifically, it's probably gonna happen in the gym.

Yeah. Right.

And, or in fitness in some way. And the biggest thing is, is understanding it needs to be challenging enough to push you and you have to fucking finish. That's it. You're going point A to point B in a straight line. Like that's what you're, that's what's gonna happen and it's gonna suck and it's gonna, you know, but it doesn't have to be like Fran crossfit style, like lay on the ground, like puking. Right. But it's, it's 20, 30 minutes of do the thing.

Right.

And it's in a structure. And that for me, that's my. I take that, those experiences from the gym and take those into the, into my, in the rest of my life. And I, I enjoy that because the thing about it is like the sandbags, the same 150 pound sandbag is 150 pound sandbag. It doesn't have emotions. It's not judging you. The only variable there is you. And maybe the weather. Right? Barbell. Same thing. Doesn't change, doesn't move. This isn't Jiu Jitsu. This isn't like, this isn't Muay Thai. This isn't.

Things aren't.

There's no emotion on the other end of that. It's you versus you. And I know that's such a cliche, but there's something about that. A to B. I keep saying that, like A to B. Like you are the ship. Like the masculine is that piece. And you can tap into this primitive side of yourself. Like when you allow yourself to just do the work. Right? Because we don't do that. I grew up in a place. I grew up in Graham, Texas, man, 9,000 people. There's a bunch of cows and a bunch of oil. That's it.

Is this kind of like Friday Night Lights?

This is. This is what Friday Night Lights is based on. So think about real life Friday Night Lights.

Okay?

Probably a smaller town because we didn't have a strip club.

Also even smaller than like an Odessa.

Oh, way smaller than Odessa. Odessa is a 5A school. We were a 3A. So I graduated, 200 people, which is a medium sized, you know, Texas.

I graduated with 2,000 people.

Yeah, dude, can you imagine? Right? So you know everybody?

And so your lens was definitely a different color than mine.

Oh, 100%. So I grew up, you know, my idea when going. I was 16, man. I was like, yeah, I'll probably go to college and graduate and then come back to Graham and then work in oil and gas and a production company or, you know, like we would do an oil and gas production. So I grew up, I was opening gates. I was a gate opener when I was five. So I'd get out of the truck and you'd have a lot of gates you have to go through in these, like this, you know, backwoods properties. And I would open the gates for my granddad and then I would like sit in the middle and shift gears on the truck, you know. And then. And when I was about 12, I started actually like working. And then I would had little crews, like my friends would come work for me in the summer. And when I was like 16 and I was just in that world where it's like swinging hammers and it was hot as shit and we wore still toe boots and it was like, you know, it was football practice and manual labor, you know, and that Was like, I don't know how the fuck I ended up here. Now think about it. It's like, how did this all happen? It's so strange, but I just had this, like, secret part of me that wanted to explore something outside of myself. And when I finally realized, and I can bring a lot of gratitude to the fact that I blew out my S1 disc in my back and had some. Had some nerve damage, I couldn't play football anymore after my first year of college and went through, like, the darkest time of my life at that point. Like, who am I? I've been playing this game for?

Your identity was shattered.

I had nothing else. I'd been playing since I was in the fourth grade.

And then.

And then I realized I started to look around at the people I was around and was like, holy shit. I got to get away from everybody I know. So I went to Texas State, where I knew like, one or two guys. And when I realized, I went down there to visit and I realized I could be whoever I wanted to be because nobody knew me before that. I could just only bring what I wanted to bring. Now, currently, I can be present and be who I am presently, not who I am presently, plus the last 19 years of my life. And that has been such a valuable experience because from there, that grease the groove for rediscovering yourself and continually evolving and then putting people in your life that are accepting of the fact that you're gonna evolve and change. And that's been so amazing.

Wherever you go, there you are. So there is something to be said about just because you pack up and leave and go to a different space or whatever, you're still bringing you with you.

Yeah.

And that happened to me too, when I lost my weight and I was in Hawaii and, like, I found training and. Which would lead me to wellness. Really?

Yeah.

But I realized looking back, though, I was like, oh, I was trying so hard, but I was rowing in the wrong direction. Like, I was like, as long as I train, as long as I do a great job being a personal trainer, like, everything, everything will work out. This will be the rest of my life. But then towards the end of my 30s, I hit this space where I was like, ah, My emotional intelligence, I intuitively knew wasn't up to par. And then I went through emotional intelligence trainings and mitt and everything. What's been your trainings? Like, talk to us about your emotional side because we dove deep into the physical. Like, people understand that, like, your Mecca is the gym now.

Yeah.

But what about emotionally Strong. Like, how have you galvanized your emotional strength? Have you done trainings? Like, experiential training?

You know what? I haven't done that many trainings, to be honest with you. I mean, there's been the plants. We talked about that. We're definitely gonna. We'll just keep teasing people with that.

Yeah. We'll talk about the.

A lot of reading. And this is actually something you say, because that's one thing I want to. And a mentor of mine, Mike Bledsoe, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

Mike's awesome.

He's a awesome guy. We were talking about that. Is getting more into that. Getting into that more because there's been this. I'm in a place now where it makes a lot of sense, and I'm feeling the feeling called to it. I've had, you know, a few masterminds and things like that that come along and have really cool communities that I've been able to lean on. But as far as, like, structured emotional intelligence training. Right. Like. Or going to do, like, an ALA or like a landmark, that just hasn't. Hasn't happened. And I'm like, man, I need to explore this a little bit more because the last three or four years of my life have been very much wandering.

Right.

Like, Connor Wanders is my Instagram handle. Like, it's like, I like to explore and get into these different things. And that's starting to call to me. And I'm getting actually really excited about having this structured unpacking and noticings of something. Like ALA is the one that really gets me hyped.

Yeah. So I did the earlier Los Angeles version, which is called Mastery and Transformational Training.

Yeah.

But I've also heard of this one that's fascinating me lately. And it's nonviolent communication. It's a way to have dialogue with another person, especially the opposite sex, which I'm 38 years old and I'm single, so I'm, like, still on this line of, like, evolution in that regard. But I think about these different programs that are out there, and I also think there could be a cult aspect. Oh, yeah, let's talk about that. Because intuitively, we know that we're always growing, we're always evolving, but yet there's also the intuitive edge that we cut with that decides if we're going to completely lose our identity in an emotional intelligence training or not. And I've seen this. Yeah. And it's not a diss on any program, but I've seen this where People go in and they kind of lose themselves because they're attached to all the greatness that they're seeing and everything they're around. How do you think people can do that, not lose themselves?

Well, I think that's one thing is you got to understand that that's an ecstatic experience. That's not that much different than an ayahuasca experience. Not that much different than Bernie Mann. It's not that much. I mean, a Tony Robbins seminar is, by all accounts, and I've been to those. Is extremely.

You're shifting your biochemistry.

Exactly. So there needs to be an integration period. And that integration period, to me, and I love to take things that are extremely esoteric and put them back into simple terms. An integration period is getting your fucking feet back on the ground. Right. Like, that's it. Like, get back grounded. Get back to the real. The quote, unquote, real world that you're living in if you want to. Unless you're going to take that path and just completely float off into outer space, which is fine. I've seen that happen. But this, it's. It's a lot of. It's going into understanding that you're going to take a step outside of it and practically apply what you can. And don't shame yourself for not being able to apply what you can't. And move the needle. Right.

That.

That to me is like that. Because that brings you back to this. And maybe that's the masculine in me. It's like, move the needle a little bit.

Yeah.

Get your feet back down. Because these. These things are extremely. If you get caught up in them and you become identified with them, like, that's honestly the reason I was so. I was gonna do Landmark, but the way they were selling it to me, like, just made me feel gross. And I think it's because I have. I'm a really good communicator. And I'm. And I'm under. I understand. Like, some of these intuitively understand. Yeah. The way they're using language. And I'm like, wow, that almost worked on me. And I can imagine if somebody else was in a different place, like, if they didn't. They didn't have conversations for a living.

Yes.

Then they would have. They would have succumbed to that. Even though I know. I know in my personal life, like, this isn't the right move for me to give you $600 right now in San Diego, when I live in Austin without a plan. I mean, I guess I can manifest a plan, but it's like, I Could also just go do the one in Austin in two months.

It was just.

It was very strange.

What do you think about nlp? Have you ever dove into neuro linguistic programming in your life?

It scares me.

Yeah. Richard Bandler, the founder, like one of the co founders, he has this huge belly. He's totally disconnected from his physical self. And I'm like, like, you know, it's hard for me to really trust someone seriously, when they're disconnected from their physical self. It's like going to a doctor and they're super unhealthy or going to any medical or health professional and you can tell, like, they're not embodying what they're saying. And by the way, like, I'm still learning. I'm not perfect. Like, I'm working on my physicality, but I'm working on it, you know, I'm doing the work to do it. How do you think that people can go to these trainings and maintain that connection with their intuitive self and not be taken over by somebody?

Well, I think one thing. Fuck, man. That's a really good question. And we can I cuss on this podcast. Absolutely.

You've been cussing the whole time, so.

I should probably ask. So I think the one thing is really understanding and this is going into any kind of big experience like that. This is for the plants as well. Understanding what your patterns were previously. Like, where have you gotten lost previously? What were your triggers to getting caught up into a thing? Because everybody's done it. I've been caught up into a thing. Like I'm stepping outside of a thing that I was like, holy shit. I was really naive and got caught up in a thing, you know, into it into. Into a funnel. And I didn't really even realize it. And I have to be like, there's compat a compassion piece to that. But just doing enough self reflection and they're like, what are you hiding from? That will get you spun out into really being. Being caught up into something that a little deeper than what you feel like is beneficial for your life. And again, it's like, is there a big gaping hole in your identity that if you, if you go into these things and you have to. You let a part of yourself go, right? That's what happens is you let a part of you. You're gonna be taught how to let a part of yourself go. So you end up with this. Creating space is what I say in my lifestyle design program. So we're gonna go create some space now. It would be the difference is With a lot of these things, like, okay, now you're empowered to fill that space with whatever you want. Nothing, something. Go find out. Go fill it with some newness and novel experiences. Find. That's what I try to get people to do, is go find something that you didn't know existed and see if that aligns with you. And then create alignment through exploration and creating context. But a lot of these programs, will they do the practice of creating space and then fill it with their shit?

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden your identity becomes a part of. They become a part of your identity. And you know, the identity is a strong piece of who you are. It's essentially your narrative and your backstory. So it's like, it's something to be cautious of. And just know that that's just having a little caution with it is really important.

Thank you for saying that. Because I've gone through trainings, I've gotten value from trainings, but at the same time, there was a part of me that was also aware, that was kind of observed. My observer was like, this is also dangerous.

Oh, yeah.

Emotional intelligence trainings can be dangerous.

And NLP can be extremely manipulative.

So manipulative. Right. And I might get like hate mail for this, but it's okay. Because there is always this duality.

Everything has a shadow.

Everything has a shadow. Like the yin and the yang have a black and a white for a reason. And I feel like right now, man, the. The plant medicine, when we look at how that can up level the human being, it's really kind of carving out holes and sometimes almost like a snake shedding its skin, killing parts of the ego. Now we don't need to completely crush the ego. Like, the ego is what flavors our soup. Without some ego, we can't dance with it. And that's what I've heard in a bunch of trainings too, is we get to dance with our ego. But it's the ego death that in physical intelligence, like doing the seal fit. And also especially in ayahuasca ceremonies or in psilocybin or ibogaine. This is what people are doing. They're shedding these old layers of the snake so that there's less ego in control. But we're not trying to kill the ego, man.

Yeah.

How have you done this in your life where you haven't like smashed your ego and completely let it go? You seem like you're pretty in touch with your ego.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny you said it, because the whole idea, the ego never was this big like, like thing for me it wasn't like, oh man, my ego is out of control here. That's, I mean that's not how I languaged it. And for whatever reason, honestly, I think Alan Watts helped so, so much because my introduction to essentially spiritual philosophy was so light hearted and fun. So he just kind of like, I just kind of picked on, picked at it, like picked on it and it was over. I was, it was like I was almost playing, I was playing with it when I started. My introduction to understanding what the ego was and how the ego manifests in your life was from a place of playfulness. And that was very in alignment with me. And even Ayahuasca told me, the mother told me whenever I'm at one of my first ceremonies, like, you're not supposed to take this stuff too seriously. And I was like, cool, I won't. Which is nice because a lot of people get caught up in that as well. And so for me it was keeping this like, this is a game, man, this is fun. This is supposed to be playful. And life may hand you shit that's super serious. That's okay if you can look at all of it through a light hearted lens. And so for me that was that taking myself less seriously and intuitively knowing to do that somehow being called to take myself less seriously gave me enough space where I wasn't so frustrated. Frustrated with myself or the expressions of the ego be like, man, I pent up some masculine expression there and it came out in a very toxic, toxic way. And that's a lesson.

That's a big lesson though because some people don't learn that lesson. Actually some people never learn that lesson. Right. I think about many friends and even family members that I have and a lot of them are still so in touch with the ego. And now ego doesn't mean, by the way, where you're boisterous and where you're expressive and where you're in control, like that's just one part of you.

Exactly.

There's also like the darkest part of what I believe the ego has, which is the part that, that's the should monster. The shame monster.

Oh dude.

The monster that says you're not good enough. The one that creates the identity comparison, the one that creates imposter syndrome. I felt this. I still feel this from time to time.

Oh, that's the most challenging one for me.

It's the most challenging. And I know people are feeling this too. Let's dig into the contrast of this man, plant medicine and the identity Crisis plant medicine and the imposter syndrome. Have you experienced that contrast, that connection in ceremonies before?

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. It wasn't something that's been super attacked in Ceremon. I think, for me, a lot of it, there was a lot of attachment. And this is again, like, ego attachment to the past. And that when I was in Peru this last time with Wachuma, which was a San Pedro cactus, brewed how they do it in the Andes. It's really incredible, incredible experience. But I got the chance to see how connected everything really was in life. Like in the jungle. Like, I got to see trees communicate with each other. It was incredible. And now I'm reading the real life avatar. Like, real life avatar? Yeah, that's actually what they say avatars based on. It was ayahuasca piece, but the watchuma piece was like. You feel like. It's like, yeah, I'm plugging my ponytail under this tree. Like, it's very strange, you know, saying it's like. It's very. It was very. It was beautiful. But then from there into time, where it was like everything that ever happened had to happen for this moment to happen. It's like, oh, and there's one thing to conceptualize it, there's another thing to completely embody it and feel it. And I got to. Actually, now that you think about it, I'm trying to, like, explore this. You asked that question in a really interesting way. And it's sparking some different things, but, yeah, I, in my ayahuasca experiences had really tapped into my. It was a very feminine experience the first night, and I saw. I had a very cool lioness vision. And then on the third night, I was told that was, like, my feminine essence. And I was like, sweet. And I, of course, I had this lioness, like, attached to my neck. And it was really, like. It was very strange. It was a. It was a really cool. To this day, probably one of the coolest visions I've ever had. And I look down, there's like, this lioness eye and an ear. And I was like, what is this? And I didn't really know until later on. It was like the whole left side of my body was like, half my body and half a lioness just kind of, like, on me. But it felt so good. It was such a pleasurable feeling. And then went through. The second night was kind of wild. And third night, I got to ask what that was about in this really cool universal information place. It was just nothing but stars. It was so incredible. And then when I went to Peru about a year later, that's when I started having really intense jaguar visions. So this black jaguar with green eyes. And so what had come to play, that was my feminine and masculine. And one was very light, one was very dark. It was just, it was really, really incredible. And the second night of Wachuma, like, I don't even know if we're even on topic anymore, but at this point I was. I was sitting at the head of this table with a bunch of people that I really care about a lot, all around me. And I watched with my eyes closed, but watched. I could. My eyes were closed, but I could still see the whole room. It was. It was wild. And on the left side was the lioness and the right side was the jaguar. And they walked down the table, walked together, became one thing, and then walked back into my chest.

Oh my God, what a crazy visual.

So what the thing was, it was like I had seen, I had seen this, this jaguar be so suppressed, like so like it was like I was in a cage. Like my. I had put in my. Put my mask in. I pretended. And JP Sears brought this out of me in one of his talks that I listened to and his premium AF program. But it was, it was like I pretended like I wasn't angry for the sake of being like more woke, you know, it was so strange. And I would pretend that, like, oh no, like I'm, I'm. I'm doing the things that people think are conscious so people can think that I'm like spiritual as fuck. And I had created a lot of my self value around other people's ideas of how quote, unquote conscious I was, as if I could even tell. It was very strange. And that, that all. A lot of that I got to like wrap my mind around for the first time. And that was a big part of my identity that had to unravel over the last year.

What do you think the biggest part of you has changed from the plants?

It's so funny because I think it really is taking everything a little bit less seriously. Yeah, it's like knowing what adds value, like letting things go. So to me, I know I'm going to keep saying this, but it's taking things a little bit less seriously. You can know what to let go and know what to bring closer to you and not really grasping onto anything. It's like I've got these things and I've loved them and I value them and there's impermanence in everything.

I love that you Said impermanence, man. Because I did the vipassana, the ten day with Goinka, you know, the experience of ten day silent meditation. And all it was was just a focus on Anita, which is the impermanence. And also just a physical awareness of our breath. Because I look at our breath and how that translates into the physical practice. I mean, I have a tattoo on my arm. It's. Which means if I can breathe, I can choose. And so, like, for me, it's a reminder, dude, to just like, hey, man, if you're stressed out, if you're not sure what to do right now, take a damn breath. Yeah, take a damn breath. Because I've struggled with anxiety in my life too. I mean, it's interesting hearing you, like, getting to know you here live on a podcast. Like, this is all fresh for me. I think about how many correlations are between you and I when we grew up. I was the funny kid in high school. I was the kid that got sent outside. I was the kid that would do anything to make a laugh because my home life was so stressful and I didn't feel safe. My mom was manic bipolar and my dad was kind of like on his own trip. I love them so deeply now. You know, I have such a great relationship with them.

When you realize they're people, it helps a lot.

I realize they're people. I love you, mom and dad. Like, you're so amazing. You do the best you could. Now how I think plants play into this. And the exciting part about this, Connor, is I didn't even know it was gonna happen, but Michael Pollan is here this weekend.

Oh, really?

He's at a, like a big bookstore here.

And so he is it book people.

I'm not sure where exactly he is, but I'm stoked that he's gonna be here because I'm gonna get his book. It's been somebody that I've wanted to interview for a long time, and I'm literally gonna go to him and be like, this is why I think you should come on Wellness Force. Just go for it. But he was just on Stephen Colbert.

And on Joe Rogan and on Joe.

Rogan a few days ago. So we look at this narrative that you and I are touching upon, which is, what are the powers and the healing modality of psychedelics? Not just ayahuasca, but also all of them, right? Lsd, ibogaine, ayahuasca. They're all in the same category of like, can this actually heal humanity? And I think it can heal humanity because it's getting us back in touch with that part you touched on, which is, this isn't so serious. It's just that your nervous system has been imprinted to have more sympathetic control because of past experiences. These past experiences is what we're all in the process of letting go of. This is what it's all about, man. And so I think of the people listening right now, like, do you have any wisdom from your experience in life of how you've used plants to let go of the past experiences? We already know that it taught you to be less serious, but sometimes those imprintings can be so serious that it'll shift you to take life even more seriously.

Exactly. No, you've nailed it, man. That's incredible. And I think, I mean, I think, I know I embody this as much as I can, is understanding that we have. We're patterned in certain ways by experience. Like, I think of life as experience and expression kind of influxing at the present moment. And I talk about that on my show all the time. And I think that there's something to understanding that the patterning and the biases that you have in your behavior and decision making and the things that may seem like they're limiting you and get in your way, like these beliefs, like they served you at one point, at some point, maybe you're avoidant. Maybe you biased towards avoidance in your relationships. Well, at some point in your life, if you really explore, you'll see that that avoidance kept you safe at some point. And having gratitude for those things as opposed to judging them, will set you free. And that's one thing the plants give you the option to do. And I'm talking mdma, I'm talking dmt, sometimes ayahuasca, ibogaine, wachuma, like mushrooms. Mushrooms and I have had a really cool relationship when it comes to this kind of. This kind of stuff. Just because it takes you. It gives you a second to step outside yourself and look at the pattern and the dance that has been your life and choose to let go of things. But you can't throw them away. You have to tell them, thank you. Thank you for serving me. You no longer serve me, and I love you.

Bye.

You know, and that's. That's incredible because you. Then it becomes like, oh, I understand why now, especially as a man. Like, you got to almost have like a rational and. And pragmatic approach to it, right? So it's like, oh, man, I was acting this way because X, Y, or Z. Well, I can choose to do that or I Can choose not to. That's fine. And then go on to my next. And then you catch yourself doing it again. Like, oh, no, it's okay. I've created. Now I've created awareness around that. And I can choose a different path. And you'll fuck it up a couple times and you straighten yourself back up. And it's a constant battle of, like, sorting yourself out. But it's a lot easier when you can say thank you.

Mm, man, this is so good. Because I realized that really, the pole position of our nervous system, if we're leading life in that space of sympathetic, if we're stressed out, if we're in Maslow's triangle and we're stuck at the bottom, which is like, you know, food first, then safety, then procreation, then contribution, then existential exploration, and then, you know, enlightenment. But if we're stuck at the bottom, dude. And even if we do the plant medicine, if we don't do it with the right intention. Let's talk about the intention. When we do these different psychedelics, a lot of times people kick this out of the box right away, especially if they're in that sympathetic state, because they might deem conversation around ayahuasca to be too esoteric, you know, or it might be like, oh, they're using woo woo language.

Yeah.

And I fell into that when I first started. It was four years ago that I had my first ceremony, and I was kind of using those words because that's what everyone in ceremony was using. And now I'm like, okay, I'm going to combine the practical with the spiritual.

So, so valuable.

How do you do that? How do you combine practical and spirituality together, knowing what you've been through?

Yeah, because it sounds. It sounds crazy.

It sounds crazy.

One is understanding. Like, no one's. No one's wrong for thinking you sound crazy, because you sound fucking crazy. It's like. And that's one thing that I think is really funny is because in those. In those plant medicine circles, like, the cool stories lead the way. Right? So it's like, oh, man, I had this lioness. You can tell when I told that story. Like, I didn't.

I mean, it was a fun story for me to hear.

Yeah. And I can go deeper into, like, what that felt like and where that was. And I could tell when somebody's done ayahuasca a handful of times, they get that, oh, wow, that's really incredible. And then it's. It's funny. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't lead with that story. To somebody who doesn't really know what that's even like because it just makes me sound wild. But what I do is I bridge the gap by leading with the lessons that I tell people to do. Like tell people what you gained from the experience, not how crazy the trip was, right? So. Oh, man. You know, I came out. I came out of that first night of with Ayahuasca feeling like I had been like, if I loving someone as much as you can love someone is shooting them with a super Soaker. I fell into a pool. So I created this analogy where it's like I just felt like I was completely immersed in love. And I didn't tell them that I felt like the divine mother had spooned me and was telling me everything was gonna be okay, which happened to me, sure. But that's not something I needed to. That wasn't necessary. And if somebody asks questions about what that was like, then we can go there. But otherwise, if you leave with the lessons, it becomes really, really helpful because, yeah, people don't think you're as crazy.

Don't you feel like in the gleam of any experience, when you have that post week glow of a Tony Robbins or a ceremony or whatever it is, your nervous system is so imprinted to this positive light and the lightness and the non seriousness that you've talk that it can turn people off actually, because they're like, oh, let's see how this is. And this actually happened. There was someone that went to Rythmia and he was a very high professional surfer, like one of the top of his game. And I got to meet his friend and I can't name names right now, but his friend was like, we want to see how this guy's going to act after his Ayahuasca experience. Because he's like, yeah, he came back from Ayahuasca and it probably helped him on the tour, but at the same time, we want to see six months from now, is he still embodying those lessons? How do you embody the lessons? I'm going deep with you, man.

No, no, this is good.

How do we embody. And I have a few things I'd love to piggyback with you as well. How do we embody the lessons after the Ayahuasca experience? It's the integration where all the love and all the non seriousness and really the juice of life can be felt. It's not in the ceremony. I mean, the ceremony is powerful, but it's the integration period after the ceremony. How do you integrate?

You know, this May be. This may sound like nihilistic in a way, but it's. I think you have to not be attached to it, not be attached to the peak that you experienced and understand. Just like we talked about with the experience earlier, there's gonna be a couple of things that you can really embody and bring into yourself, and it's not gonna be everything, right? Mindfulness practice and journaling are super helpful because you get to kind of remind yourself of those things. One thing that's been extremely helpful for me is mantras. I'll get mantras out of these experiences, like some sequence of words that really resonate with me about an experience. And the resonance of those words helps bring me back to that place. Like, one of them is remember who you are, which is from the Lion King, obviously one of the best movies ever. But it came up in my journaling after a ceremony and I was in Peru, and that has come through so many times that I associate that little phrase with a certain feeling and a certain way of being that I can. Oh, yeah, shit, when I get lost in my head, remember who you are. And I can say that at the end of a meditation and really just tap back into that. And it's awesome because I'm not trying to hoard the experience. Remember all of it. And, oh, this little lesson and this thing happened and then you start to make all these. You start to edit your memories to make them exactly what you want, and you're kind of forcing it versus these things. When going in with an intention like we talked about, and in the beginning, your intention should, in my opinion, I don't want to say should, but a lot of times the intention is to just learn and listen and just see what it's like. Because it's like having an intention to go play. Go play professional football, and you've never played football before. It's like you don't know what you're getting yourself into, right? So you just let it.

That's one way to say it.

Just let it go, right? It's like you're stepping in to say something that you don't understand if you've never had this experience before. So just being there and then once you understand kind of what you're getting yourself into, then you can get more refined with your intentions and guide them a little bit differently in that way. But again, I think every time, like, when you go in there with that, like, there's. It's going to take you where it needs to go. And if you can really find a Couple of things and not get overwhelmed with how many things you learned and really create practices around those. And again, mantras have been super helpful. And having a practice outside of the plants so you don't over rely on them is extremely empowering.

That is so powerful, man. Think of even the word yoga, union with oneself or samadhi. Right. It's an experience of, oh, we are all connected on a quantum level, on an energetic level, on a personal level. And it doesn't have to be esoteric, it just is what it is. And I remember actually on ROGAN When Neil DeGrasse Tyson was on there and he was talking, he was like, you know, we've done the measurements, and at the lowest level of measurement, what we see is replicating particles. All we see is replicating particles that are just like continually building upon themselves. So you and I are the universe experiencing itself. But yet, I'll be honest, man, I still have. And I'm currently working on this edge in plants, in yoga, in my physical practice, I still have a pretty severe fear of death. Really, it's come up a lot. And I'm like, I don't want to leave my family. I don't want to leave my friends. Larry King has the same fear he talked about with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He's like, I'm most afraid of dying. It's one of my favorite interviews of Larry King.

Wow, that's so funny. I don't resonate with that at all.

I know.

I wonder what. I wonder what. I wonder what lesson in life is being brought to you because of that.

I don't know. But that's my question to you is how have you used plants and your different practices to let go of the fear of death?

Dude, I think this is. Again, this is one of those things that sounds kind of wild. My third night at Ayahuasca, I felt. I just got chills thinking about this. So I. I'll tell this like I do. I tell things in a pretty lighthearted way. So I was. It was a third night. I drank two cups because I. I felt still kind of tethered to reality. And I was like, I'm ready to just let go. I really want. I had this almost like, I was almost attached to the idea of letting go. So I was holding on to letting go. It's a pretty funny way of looking at it. And I was in a sleeping bag. And, you know, sleeping bags have a little like, nook for your feet.

Yeah.

So I was sitting in an Adirondack chair, which is kind of a leaned back chair with my. With a sleeping bag on. And I started feeling, feeling it, you know how it goes. And your gut kind of of starts churning and it's like, you know what? I think I just kind of want to lay down. I don't think I want to sit for this one. So I laid down on the ground and didn't, I didn't rotate my sleeping bag and I put my feet up on the chair and I laid my back on the. On the ground. And then as I started seeing the slats and the ceiling start to kind of wave, I was like, all right, cool. So it's easing me in. That's nice, Appreciate that. And I tucked my head in that little foot nook where your feet would go in the sleeping bag. And all I saw were stars as far as I could see. As far as I could see. And I was just like, wow. And then I started laughing because I'm like, I'm just this meathead in a sleeping bag, like reaching out into the universe, like outside of the sleeping bag. Because that's something about ayahuasca that's so funny, is you're still your consciousness, you're just not really here. And I was laughing at what I would look like outside of that. And then I started laughing. I was just laughing at trying to make words out of it. The fact that I knew I was going to have to try to explain this experience to people and I got some communication through that and it felt like I was with. And I think this is just my own mental representations of really impactful people. So I felt like I was with a Jesus and Alan Watts and Buddha and they were all kind of the same. They were just at the same. From the same soul place, which I thought was really beautiful and something I've seen a lot as well. And I started to understand through what they were telling me, like how.

How.

It'S so hard to make words out of this, but how fractal life is. And it put me in this ease, right? Like that's what I felt like. I was feeling what death would feel like. And there was something about it that was very calming for me. And it just doesn't really freak me out. I think that.

Where do you think we go?

I don't.

What did you see that would actually go.

That's the thing is that for me, I think I've seen the origin places of souls in a lot of different DMT trips and things like that, where it's like, oh, I'm in A place. And I'm like, wow, this is not my place. This is not a place for me. This is not where my soul belongs. They're like, no, it's not. But it's pretty crazy, right? I'm like, yep, you're fucking wild. You know, it's funny. And I've seen that. And I think that there's. For whatever reason, I think that this life, it's a place for your souls to. To play and figure things out. And that's why there's inherent challenges like single use, plastic, and war. It's like we have these weird things that are. That are super detrimental, but I think that we. We go back to where we started and kind of play it again in the Samsara.

And do you think that this is your first time in physical form or have you been here before?

Oh, no, I don't think. I don't. I don't think so. It doesn't seem that. And that's one of the things where it's like, I don't even. The funny thing is, like, it let me not be super, like, where do we go? I'm like, I don't know. Honestly, it makes it so much easier. Right?

Yeah.

I like to play with the ideas of it, but at the same time, it's like, I'm gonna be surprised.

Yeah. I'm stoked to listen to this podcast in a year because I know that I'm committed to this work of discovering why that fear for me exists. And I'm just being real. Right.

No, it's good.

You know, the realness. The realness of this for me is because I feel like I have so much work to do and I want to put out so much before I die is there's almost this fear that I won't be able to achieve what I want to achieve before I die.

Yeah.

You know, and actually, it's funny, I asked Mark Devine, I was like, what are you most afraid of? Because he's the commander of SEAL fit. Like, he's like, at the top of the food chain when it comes to, like, embodying a threshold of physical intelligence and, you know, through his SEALFIT events. And I was like, what are you most afraid of? And he said. Said, I'm most afraid that, you know, possibly I won't get everything that I want to get done before I leave. And when he said that, like, my whole body turned cold because I was like, that's. That might actually be it. That might actually be my fear of, like, I want to Achieve so much before I leave.

Isn't it funny when something resonates with you like that and the physical response you have from it.

Totally.

When someone says something that you know is like. I don't like, use word true very often that you're. It's true to you. Like, it resonates with you. I love that word resonates too. Like octaves and vibrations of.

Yes.

Of speaking. But in like, ohm.

Right.

Like, this all has. There's something. There's something to our mouth sounds, even though they can be ridiculous sometimes. But there, that feeling, that feeling that you have when you know, like, that's. That's something to me. There's something in that. For me, it's so wild. Like when I heard. When I heard Alan Watts the first time say that we're. We're a nerve ending on the universe. Right. And we're the universe experiencing itself like that just. There was something about that that just vibrated through my whole body. And I was like. Like, oh, okay, I get it.

That's a big guy for me. You know, for five years I listened to him in the mornings when I was in the shower. Him and Abraham Hicks. But then there also can be like, this disintegration of our heroes at some point, too. I don't know if you've ever experienced this. Right. And I think people watching or listening can understand too. You know, you look up to somebody for so long and then you finally realize, like, they're just a human being. They're just doing the best they can. I went to Abraham Hicks in San Diego two years ago, and I felt. I was like, this is a lot of production.

Yep.

Like, there's a lot going on here where she's enunciating her voice and using NLP tactics and whatnot. Have you ever experienced this where you have, like, hero disintegration?

Yeah, a lot.

Give us an example, man.

Like, God damn, we'll put you on blast.

Give us the realness.

No, I've seen. I've seen it a lot. That's one thing I say. And I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to put anybody out there. Right. Because it's like. It's one of those things where it's challenging. And I think when you just tell us the industry.

Yeah.

It's the whole thing. Yeah. So, I mean, in all. In so many. Whether it be CrossFit. When I was in CrossFit, like, I've been really. I've met a lot of People that are, that are up there, right. Like doing their thing. And I was, I, I've. If I had one way of being. That's been limiting to me in my life, I think it's being naive. Like, I just, I come from a small town and like, you know, it's like work ethic and blue collar and whatever and Christianity and all these other things. So it's like, I think that pattern, this kind of naive, like, oh, everybody's doing, you know, everybody's intentions are pure and everybody is what they say they are. Which is I think why I'm so called to the realness. Right. And bringing, having real genuine conversations with people and sharing those, I think it's fucking magical. But when you start to understand that a lot of times people's pain becomes their passion. And for all of us, I would say, especially if you're out here and if you have the propensity to speak it out and be very public about it, there's something there. Like, there's something there. And that battle is what you're fighting. It's not the battle that you. And it's not what you say, it's not what you put out there that you're fighting. It's. It's something internal. And that becomes really challenging when you realize that the thing about it is the reason these people aren't. Are so good at putting it out there isn't because they have it figured out. It's because they have such a hard time figuring it out.

This is so. This is the archetype of the wounded healer that becomes the healer. And I, and I think that, you know, my story, we both had weight loss and so maybe that was our catalyst for fitness. And then I think everybody kicks their door for fitness. And then at the other side is wellness.

I mean, that's exactly.

We're all trying to live our life. Well, how do you serve? What's your contribution now for allowing people to live? Well, like, what's this all about for you? Your contribution to the world?

So my biggest thing is authentic expression. Yeah, like that's a phrase that has come, come up and up over it with journaling plant medicine. I think that the way you bring yourself to the world, if you can, if you can broaden the boundaries of your experience and allow yourself to take more in, create more context, then you're going to have more information to draw the way you express yourself from. I mean, really, we learn a lot from the way that we've talked about this a ton. Your pattern to be A certain way. And there's everybody listening to this podcast, and you and I, there's things right in front of our faces that we can't see, and we have false boundaries on the way that we experience life. And if you can take yourself a little bit less seriously, withhold judgment for just a little while, have some compassion for yourself, and then get curious, well, then you can explore just outside of your realm a little bit and a little bit more and a little bit more. And you'll find things that you don't like, and you'll find things that you absolutely love, that you didn't know exist. And you can embody those experiences and bring yourself more fully to the world. And that's. I love doing that work with people. And I think what I try and do in the form of content is give people permission. You know, like, this is a. I'm almost.

Permission to be curious, Permission to be.

Curious, permission to be a little bit weird, Permission to ask. Ask really, really powerful and profound questions. And. And that doesn't have to. That doesn't. When I say profound, that doesn't mean profound like an Einstein or a Freud, right? It's, like, profound to you, right? Like, it's. It's exploring yourself and letting your. Letting your mind go.

So what do you see then? Because I think. I think for people to actually explore this permission to be curious, there has to be that spark within themselves. What do you think blunts the spark of curiosity?

I think what blunts it is the illusion, right? I think that you get to this place of you're comfortable, and there's a pattern, there's a path to follow, and you just look down at the path. This is the kind of physical representation, like you just look down at the path and you never look up. So you're moving and you're on a thing, and you're going step by step and you're there. But when you stand up and look around and get curious, like, things, everything changes. And you can't. You can't break. You can't unask yourself. Why? If you really start to question yourself, why, you know? And one pathway that I've seen over and over again with people that I work with is the power of disillusionment, right? Like, they graduate college, they get the job, maybe they're married. For guys, it's usually around 25 to 30. They get the job, and they're stable enough to look around and be like, what the fuck am I doing this for? Because I don't feel whole.

What did I sign up for.

I don't feel whole. Yeah. And I'm in this thing and something seems to be missing. And with. With women, a lot of times it's like mid-30s, couple kids, and they have that same kind of like, well, this is all the stuff that I was told that I was supposed to want and that would make me happy. And I'm not. There's something missing. And that curiosity. The curiosity comes from a feeling of necessity for something else and realizing that you've been playing that game for a long time and you've got to reevaluate what you're doing with yourself. It's really fun.

There is a power too. Like, I love this work you do. I actually didn't know that you went that deep with people. And I also think in alignment with that, the tandem power of having a connection to a tribe and community. I know you and I probably hear this a lot. And also too, like, even if you've heard this 50 times, allow this 51st time of this conversation seriously to go deep into your psyche and realize if you took emotional inventory of your life, are you really part of a tribe? Are you really actually part of a community? It's one thing for you to know, it's another thing for you to be in embody. How do people actually build community? It involves a lot of different skill sets. And especially in our world where most life is lived through a fricking computer or a phone, right now we live in this crazy, almost tangential connected world where we think we're connected, but we're not. With your work and all the fun places we've gone in this conversation, like, how do people that are interested in the things that you and I are discussing find a tribe that's interested in the same stuff?

Well, I've got one online, so the realness community on Facebook is fantastic. But I think it comes down to it's really not that much different than what I was saying. It's exploring the opportunities that are right in front of your face. And a lot of times people are geographically fucked, is what I like to say. When you're in a town that doesn't and have something cool. But if you can go to a different Yugo studio and break outside of your pattern and be open and receptive to the kindness of people, that's something that's really overlooked, is just creating a conversation with somebody, treating every human interaction like a human interaction and have the intention inside you to really connect with people. That tribe's gonna come to the surface. You've then created space for those people to come into your life and really show up, up and you can understand what you value about friendships, what you value about yourself, what you love to bring to the world. And when you're clear on what you're bringing to the world, it's going to attract people that, that resonate with that and that's, that's the natural progression of creating a tribe. And you know, you and I put things out into the world, so people are drawn to us for those things and they're genuine and we're just talking.

To the thing inside of them. That's true.

Exactly. But there's only, the only, the only things you notice and resonate with you are the things that, that make sense and served you in some way. And I think getting very, very clear on what you value about yourself and then letting yourself explore in life a little, a little bit will draw people into your life that will be incredibly impactful that you don't like right now. If you, oh, you know how to make a tribe well, then you just put another box on the checklist. Right. And that's not really, that's not really the way to go about it because that's not an organic drawing together of people. That's, that's a task.

Yeah.

That's a different conversation. If you do that, then you're going to end up in this kind of, of tasky service, transactional relationships with people. And that's not really helpful.

Yeah. And that's big right now too. And I've talked about this with many people that are in, I guess you could say a space of social media. Is this, are you really connecting with me because you generally want to connect with me, or are you connecting with me because you see something or someone down the line that's going to benefit you?

Yeah.

And I think that's also kind of maybe our biology expressing itself because who didn't, you know, a thousand years ago want to be connected to the chief? We all want to be connected to the chief. Right. This disingenuous part though, of social media, you see this and how have you navigated so it doesn't succumb you?

The social, social media is hard, man, because it's, it's created to give you the dopamine hits. I try to not, let's use this term earlier. We talking about like, I'm not an upreacher necessarily.

Yeah.

Like I, I, I like to add value to people through conversation and, and be really intriguing in some fun ways. And I Find value in that. And I think that's. I have to be careful with my ego there. It's like not to. Not to need. Need to be validated through social media. I love connecting with people. So for me, in social media, it's like, I think of it as this physical representation of who I actually am, and it's just another aspect of personal expression and needs to be very genuine. You know, I feel like it's just checking in with my alignment and my intentions behind what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Like, for example, like my buddy Kyle Tierman, right. And we both know him. He's very close with Chris Ryan. Chris Ryan is a. A hero of mine in a way, right?

Why is he a hero?

I mean, just his. He was the first person who I listened to on a podcast that I didn't really care what he was talking about as much as I cared about the way that he thought. Like, I just wanted to because he was so good at articulating his ways of thinking. And they. And they resonated with me in a certain way. I was like, I'm listening to this guy because I like the way he thinks, not because I like what he does. I like what he does too. It's good. I mean, I like what a lot of people do, but very few people that I hear that I'm like, I want to embody the way you create ideas because that, That's. That's. That fascinates me. I haven't. I. I would never want to, like, want to leverage my friendship with someone to get to someone else. Like, that kind of. That thing. Feel. Even saying those words feels super gross to me. But I'm exposed to a lot of people and that if I. If I had that intention, if I had that gear, I could see how my relationships would get very transactional. And I actually did a podcast, like a solo podcast called Transactional Relationships. I just don't have time for that in my life. Like, that's not that. Like, I. Even with the show, like, it's.

It's.

If we can have a valuable conversation and create good content together, then let's get on the show. It doesn't matter if you have 100,000 Instagram followers or a thousand, because at the end of the day, it's like, what? Some of the most impactful people in the world don't give a shit about social media.

Exactly.

And they're bringing an awesome version of themselves to the world.

This is so funny that we're talking about this too, because Peter Krohn, he coaches psychological performance for the Arizona Diamondbacks, and they've done amazing since he's been their coach. And he coaches people at the highest level of sport you can imagine. Just launched his Instagram, doesn't have any social presence. He's one of these guys behind the guys that are, like, helping people at the highest levels, but yet he's not focused on social because he said, actually, this is funny. This came out like three or four shows ago. When someone hits a like, and when we see this variable reward, as Neur Ial calls it, we receive these likes. It actually creates a cascade of hormones in our body. It releases all these serotonin and all these different effects. And so we go down this line of being programmed by social media. There's a big part of me, man, that actually kind of holds resentment against social media.

Me, too.

I don't like it, but the only thing that I can do. And you brought this up, too. It's like, can I just do this from a place of being curious and really putting out stuff that I care about? Because I know that people are then going to resonate with that in me. So this has been awesome, dude, to be able to connect with you here in your home, live. Last three questions for you.

Just do it.

So emotional intelligence, physical intelligence. This is the intersection of wellness force. This is like. Like the discovering process. I haven't got it all figured out. I know you probably haven't either. But what are you leaning into right now when it comes to emotional intelligence? Like, is there a practice in your thoughts or your feelings or your actions where you're leaning into your emotional intelligence?

Oh, man. That's a really, really good question. And I want to answer that in a very articulate and beautiful way. But what am I leaning into so much? My emotional intelligence. I'm just going to say that again so I can really think. But I think one thing that I've noticed is that I get. Got really out in the weeds with the psychedelics and that everything was very conceptual. And for me, I'm in this phase of really adding nuts and bolts, practical actionable components to my life and. Which isn't as sexy. And I think a lot of times people just keep going down the rabbit hole of. Of.

I need to do another ceremony.

Yeah, another ceremony. Another ceremony. And I'm. I have actually. I hit. I. I feel very called to go do ayahuasca with a friend of mine, with one of his people. People in a certain place. And. And that's something that I'm like, I'm holding out for that. Not like, man, I'm feeling, like, lost. I need to do ayahuasca. It's like, no, let me. Let me really engage with people. And this is, what, if I could say this is probably the biggest thing, now that I think about it, is bringing people into my life that reflect that. So it's me putting the nuts and bolts action into place. Okay, what needs to happen? I'm cutting some people out of my life and is painful, really painful, but I have to create that space for some new relationships. And, man, like, it's. It's been. The feedback in my own experience has been really great, but it's been one of the most challenging months of my life. Just because it's. It's a. It's like pulling my fingers off. It's like, it's really challenging my identity. It's really hard, but I know it needs to happen. At the end of the day, I think there's something about exploring yourself, understanding that there's. There needs to be that space for new relationships and a phase shift. So that's. I'm leaning heavy into that right now. And that comes from practical and actionable components of my life.

I love that you're making it actionable, man, because. Because, you know, there's been many times where I think it's so easy for all human beings to fall in this loop of, like, I just had this radical experience. Let me tell you all about it. Like, I was fly. I was flying with a white robe. That doesn't help people.

No, it doesn't.

It doesn't help.

And one thing, if you have a gift for language and charisma, like, you can get by with it. Like, I've ridden the wave of my personality for a lot of the work that I've done. And now it's like I'd put myself in check and be like, yo, dude, like, put some. Put the nuts and bolts in place.

You know, what are the nuts and bolts then for you, from a physical intelligence perspective, this intersection of physical and emotional, what are you leaning into for a physical practice right now?

That's new. So that's a good question, too. The functional bodybuilding world has really started to intrigue me. I started getting excited about physically expressing myself in that way. Like, I had quit doing Olympic weightlifting and really, like, the CrossFit style of training. I'd competed for a long time. I owned a gym. I was in that world. That was my value that I brought to the world. And now not only do I want to start training that way again, and it gets me really excited. And again, I think it's me tapping back into, like, my primitive self and something I really loved but was burnt out on. And not only just doing it, but then sharing it with other people again. That's, of course, a pattern in my life. It's like I'm super passionate, passionate about this. I love bringing it to the world. So for me, it's that it's following guys like Marcus, Philly, and Roman from TRI Fitness and just seeing what the cool things that they're putting together and then challenging myself and finishing the work, like following somebody else, following somebody who knows more than I do, that I can learn from and share from that place of learning. I love that.

Hell, yes, I love that. This is why it's been so fun to talk to you, man, because I feel from you this natural curiousness, but it's not coming from, like, a frenetic place. It's not like. It's not like we have to. You don't have to figure it out today.

No, no.

This is our life experience. So then, last question for you, man. So this physical, this emotional, there's also the spiritual, which we've touched on. These all, in my opinion, are what wellness actually truly is. But how would you define, like, what's Connor Moore's definition of wellness? How would you define wellness, man?

I think it comes down to. And actually define what the realness is about in this way. And that's connection, spirituality, and fitness. That's really our three big pillars. And I think that's personal development is all through those. Those three aspects of life. To me, that's really what I get excited about. So when it comes to spirituality, it's like my meditation practice, knowing there's so much value in that. And the reason that it probably fails sometimes is because I'm scared to see something right. And then creating compassion around that. So having this compassionate existence and understanding that you can keep moving the needle on these three components of life, really. Understanding, especially understanding connection, connection to friends, connection to people, other podcast hosts. Yeah. And through this, like, that's one thing. I went on a rant after my podcast with Mike Salemi, who is just an incredible human being. I don't know if you've met him or not, but you guys have got to get together.

I've seen him. Yeah, he seems fascinating.

He's an awesome guy.

He actually worked with Paul Check for a while.

Yeah, yeah. He's a checky for sure. But it's like the fact that we can have this connection and then put it on the Internet and then other people can connect with our connection is essentially magic. This is like witchcraft. This is some Hogwarts shit and I really do love that. So that's kind of the. That's how it all kind of runs. That's the Venn diagram of, of life for me.

Dude, I so enjoyed this conversation with you. Where can Wellness Force Radio learn more about you? Like where do you live? Where are you the most active?

Well, I'm the most active active on Instagram on my day to day. So that's Connor Wanders. Connor with an E C O N E R and wanders W A N D E R S. I always feel like I'm going to misspell that some. For some reason. And then the Realness media on Instagram and if you want to check out what I'm working on. So Lifestyle design program is a six week one on one program. And then we have the Realness retreat which is coming up in August. So all that stuff's@gettherealness.com really easy, really easy, simple website. I keep it real simple and real pretty. So yeah.

And you like to be real. You like to stay real. What's up with this retreat?

So the retreats. I'm stoked on the retreat. So I met Kirsten Asher who is. You've got to get her on the show. I know you guys method.

We've been talking about it. She gets people out of their head and into their body, swerving their hips like, you know, static dance and all these different things.

I don't think I've laughed so much on a podcast with her ever. Like if you're listening to this show and you want to go check my show out, go find, go find the one with Kirsten.

We'll link that in the show.

Not for sure. She's awesome. And she just. I know. I knew. I've known I wanted to do a retreat for a while and Kurt and I knew I wanted to dance and physical expression to be in there, especially from the feminine side. And Kirsten and I had this conversation and on the podcast and we get to talking. We were like he's walking on the beach just. And saying. And Tanisha and just talking about like what this could be and how we could. How we would go about doing it. And it just felt so right. So what we're going to do is create a two and a half day experience essentially here in West. In West Austin so out in the hill country on the lake. And we're going to create an environment, hold a space for people to just really genuinely express themselves and find, tap into that expansive self expression through understanding how you got where you are, create some experiences. We've got some breath work, some body movement, some meditation, all these fun practices, but done in a way of, of really being separate from your other, your life. Just, just get away from all of it. And the phones have put away. And then on Saturday night, of course, Kirsten will run the, the, the embodied dance practice, which is going to be kind of an ecstatic dance with a little bit more structure. And we're going to break out of that into really sharing and being vulnerable with each other and setting and implementing practices that we can take forward in the rest of our lives. And really I think there's something to be said for this little bit of structure to it. There's obviously events. We've got some of my favorite teachers and practitioners coming out to guest star and do some yoga and do some movement and then of course like Corey Allen to do the meditation who just, he's just an amazing human being.

Love that guy.

And that's the thing too is like bringing out some of my, some of the best people around.

All right, I'm in. I'm gonna go. I'm totally going, man. Thanks so much for coming on the show. This is so fun. You guys check out Conor's work. It's amazing. This has been so fun, man. Thanks so much.

Thanks so much, brother.

Yep. Hey my friend, thank you for hanging out and growing with me on today's show. Remember to hit subscribe. Share this podcast with somebody you care about that you think gets to hear this message. Support the show by leaving a five star review for the podcast right now simply by tapping on your show artwork. On your iPhone, click that purple link that says review this podcast. It helps the show reach more conscious and smart people like you. And your voice will attract more world class guests that want to come on the show. So let them hear your voice. For all the downloads, videos, links and free resources mentioned on the episode, go to wellnessforce.com radio. And while you're at my house on the web, join us in the Wellness Force community newsletter on that page and I'll send you four free guides around staying healthy with your eating, eating, moving and sleeping while you travel. But don't let this conversation stop here. Join a group of people like you over at the Wellness Forest Community Facebook page. This is where we talk about the things that really matter. We share our wins, inspirations, struggles, and a lot more. So join us. Tap on the show artwork on your phone and hit that purple link that says join the Facebook group and I will welcome you at the door. Okay. Now you get to go out into your world and create impact for the people that you care about. So until I see you again, right real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.