253 Dr. Brenda Walding: Whole Hearted Healing

One of the biggest messages I think that we can shift this whole chronic disease epidemic is if we can begin to open or shift our perception that dis ease is potentially this divine opportunity that's this, like, catalyst for radical growth and transformation. Like, hey, this is an invitation, a wake up call to go in and to really remove all that isn't you and to awaken to the truth of who you are.

That's Dr. Brenda Walding, and this is episode 253 of Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life well. In this episode, we're talking with Dr. Brenda Walding, a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, heartmath certified coach, and also a doctor of physical therapy therapy. But beyond all the accolades and the certificates on her wall, Dr. Walding is talking to us today about healing. This concept of wholehearted healing, which I learned about live and in person in her home on her couch overlooking the beautiful Austin, Texas area just a few weeks ago. Now, this woman is a true wellness warrior. I know you're going to enjoy this story, the authenticity and honestly, just the truth that you can feel and hear in her voice. And she has been through a lot. And I know if you yourself or a friend or a family member is currently going through or has gone through a challenging health threshold, this podcast is going to connect with you on multiple levels. Brenda spent 10 years going through letting go of cancer, and that is actually the big fire underneath this book. But beyond that is this mission that she has now. After learning what it really takes to to let go of cancer, she's now serving women by helping them heal, thrive, and create more harmony in their lives. Brenda really understands this connection to spirituality and feminine power. And also she's talking to the men that are listening because we can't do anything in this world unless we're balancing, that's the key word, balancing this masculine and feminine energy. For so many years in Brenda's life, she really was a hard charger, an overachiever, a life of, you know, athletic achievement and academic achievement. And really what she shares is that this quest for achievement is actually what kind of drove the sickness in a way. But this turned into her greatest gift. Brenda believes that healing isn't so much about gaining something outside of yourself. It's about letting go of all that isn't the deep down divine you. And that's the path that Brenda is talking to us about. Today we'll explore why she chose to not go down the traditional path of chemotherapy and radiation to heal her breast cancer, but decided to go the natural medicine route. Instead, we we talk about how women can be more aware of and honor their natural feminine selves. We talk about Brenda's spiritual connection, how it shifted and how she used it to heal and why pain can be our most powerful teacher and what pain taught Brenda while she had cancer. Show notes from today are@wellnessforce.com 253 make sure you go and learn more about Brenda. And if you have a condition that you're going through or maybe a family member or a friend, reach out to Brenda. All her contact information is going to be on the website over@wellnessforce.com 253 this conversation with Dr. Brenda Waldig is brought to you by Organifi, our show sponsor. The creators of the Red, Green and gold juice and also the Pur, the gut Health and the brain health boosting supplement. You can get every single day delivered in this cool actually little travel packet. You can pour it in your water. It's great because you don't have to use caffeine. You know, so many people are using caffeine. They're abusing caffeine. And I say that because especially in America, we don't breathe enough and we don't feel enough. What we do is we pour another cup of coffee in the afternoon and that is actually what is pulling us away from health. You can get closer to health and have this life of wellness by using natural adaptogens. This is what is in the organifi products. Adaptogens are plant compounds that actually go down deep into the mitochondria and help the cell have energy from the inside out. You know, we are what we eat, right, but we're also what we drink. People don't think about this, how many calories and how much nutrients can be delivered liquids, this liquid energy source through a powder that's in a travel packet or in a little scoop. You can do this all day long for less than a few bucks a day. And because you're a part of the Wellness Force community, you get 20% off. You get 20% off your entire cart. The red, green and gold and the pure and the protein, by the way, which tastes like vegan ice cream. Over at Organifi.com WellnessForce just use code wellnessforce@organifi.com WellnessForce you can get 20% off your entire cart and the red and the green and the gold. All right, let's jump in. Right now live and in person in Austin, Texas with the one and only Dr. Brenda Walding. My guest today is A doctor of physical therapy and a holistic wellness and transformation coach that specializes in supporting and empowering women to truly heal and thrive. As a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, Tao Flow yoga teacher, and Heartmaster certified coach, she's also co founded Native Path, a popular nutrition and lifestyle company. Now, her new book, which we're talking about today in her home here in Austin, Texas, it's called Sick of Being Sick, the Woman's Holistic Guide to Overcoming Chronic Illness. This came through for her after burning the candle at both ends in athletics and achievement as a young woman to then find herself battling breast cancer as an adult. Now this turned into the catalyst for her to align with a concept that she calls wholehearted healing, where she's been able to heal not only her body, but her mind, heart and spirit as well. Brenda Walding, welcome to Wellness Force.

Oh, it's so good to be here. What an amazing introduction. Thank you.

Well, this is, you know, I got to spend like the past 16 hours with you and your husband Chad, and it's been so special to just be here on the lake with you and just see literally where the healing has occurred.

Yes.

Why did you choose this place here in Austin to live? It's this beautiful view over the lake.

Yes. That's a really good story actually, because as I mentioned before when we were talking during this whole incredible decade long healing journey, part of that was navigating breast cancer and taking a very unconventional path, not doing the traditional chemo and radiation. So it actually took me and my husband to following my heart to a healing center in California where we just picked up everything left and we went there and we ended up spending our entire savings on alternative medicine treatment for cancer. And we ended up selling our home from. We lived in a place called Cedar Park, Texas, and we had to sell our home from California and we moved in with my in laws, had a second home on this lake in Austin, this place called Lago Vista. And that's where I did a lot of healing work. And you know, we thought, oh my gosh, this is such a horrible thing. We have to move out of our home. And you know, we lost everything. But here we are in this beautiful little condo on the lake with deer and nature everywhere and such an incredible place for just deep reflection and healing. After I ended up having a mastectomy after doing some alternative treatments. And so we lost everything and we loved it so much. We spent eight months recuperating and healing and then we decided to stay. So we just kind of circumstance brought us to this place and we were able to buy this beautiful home now that we have on the lake. Looking at the water, how much do.

You feel environment when it comes to healing matters for people, for both men and women? I know you serve a lot of women, but for a human being to heal, like how important is the environment that they spend their healing in? In other words, do you think healing's possible if the environment's not stacked in their favor?

I, before having this experience, I would, I would say, you know, maybe it's important, but I mean, it's been so crucial to healing of my nervous system, my body, my mind, my spirit, just to have the opportunity to be in nature. There's a part in my book where I call let nature nurture you. Because it's been such a transformational part of my healing journey is just being able to be in nature and all the wisdom of nature and the stillness of nature and just how it allows us to really connect with our hearts.

The Japanese call it Shinrin yoku. It's forest bathing. It's literally prescribed from physicians in Japan.

Yes.

Which is fascinating.

It is. I actually saw some research on that and just like how the part of that of us being in the trees, how they emit the essential oils into the air that helps reduce stress. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. The forest bathing has to do with. I mentioned that also in my book. It's like it's a thing. Forest bathing is a thing. I didn't even know I was researching the power of the healing power of nature. And. Yeah. And I love essential oils. And so I was like, oh, that. You know, you just feel so relaxed when you're in nature. And then also, you know, when you go to the beach and you just feel. I always feel so much better health wise when I'm on the beach. And like you're grounding, you're getting those negative electrons from the earth and the sea breeze and the water and the elements. There's something really, it's beyond. It is. There's science backing this up. But you always kind of like feel better.

Yes.

Yeah.

So maybe, maybe in a way, and I'm excited to dig into this incredible story, but maybe in a way the answer to the environment being the container for healing is that it's just as important as the healing itself. Would you say that's true?

Yes. Yeah, I would. I really would. And so I think sometimes when we're on this, whoever's on a healing journey or from whatever, or just wanting to live their most optimal Life, I think we skip over the simplicity, the simple things. And I think I've had some really extraordinary healers and practitioners that have mentored me, and they're always reminding me of mastering the basics. So it's like, are you getting your sunshine? Are you out in nature? Are you doing gentle movement? It's like these really maximizing the healing power of the simple things in life.

The fascinating part to me is that sometimes the simple things, they almost seem too simple. To the logical mind, where. What do you mean? If I just get some sun in the morning or if I just have a practice where I'm still. Is that really going to. The logical mind says this. Is that really going to help me heal? Let's dig into this, though, because who are you today? I mean, how do you serve the world today? Because we're going to talk about your story, but in this moment, like, who is Brenda Walding in this moment, like, why is she here in the world?

Ah, that is a really good question. So I really feel the calling, you know, the end of last year and the beginning of this year as I'm kind of transitioning out of this healing phase of healing and navigating cancer to really serving this really profound call to serve women and to help women that are sick and struggling with their health to really learn how to not only survive, but to thrive and to create more health, happiness and harmony in their lives. Because that's really what my path has been over the past decade. And that is my. That is my. My soul's calling is to go out and share my story and to serve and help other women. Because that just lights me up. And I also feel very. I feel like it's an important part of my own healing is to. To. To share what I've learned and share what I've been through.

The true archetype of the wounded healer becoming the transcendent next level of the. Of the healer. Really, that's, I think, a path that I see you walking and, and this is going to ripple out into so many other women's lives. But the real path to the pressure inside your nervous system, the things that actually in a way, made the sickness come on. I think just in talking with you, I can feel that it really started way back where there was this focus on achievement early in life. You were an athlete, and then you went on from athletics to be a doctor in physical therapy. But. But this, the sickness that came. Do you feel looking back? Obviously connecting the dots in reverse is easier. Right?

Right.

Do you feel looking Back like, what was it about the achievement focus when you were growing up that possibly added to the internal stress which manifested in disease?

Yes, I. Absolutely. Well, I know that that was. The more I study and the more that I understand the human body and psyche and the soul and all of these things. I know there's even something now called a stress, a cancer personality. When we're talking about this sort of type A, very driven, achievement oriented, you know, where, you know, as women, I think we have this, you know, this, this drive. We want to be seen as equal and to be successful and we want to, we kind of start to tend to go towards a more masculine expression of who we are because that's kind of how our society is. And so we are not really in touch with this feminine way of being. And so I don't know about, you know, I see this happen a lot for women. So I'm not saying this everyone, but for me, you know, for me to really, you know, I say I was really wanting to experience, you know, love and connection. It was like when I achieve, when I work really hard, when I get really good grades, then I, you know, get that love and connection that I am seeking. And so it was really, although I wasn't really obviously processing that when I was that young.

Yes.

It was like I was, you know, always wanted to do my best and to work really, really hard so that I could get the love I was seeking.

Was your father in the military? Yes, he was in the military. And I've talked about this on the show. My grandpa was in the military. I saw my mom's struggles and what she went through. And I think a lot of women can relate to this. If in that first 10, 20 years of life as a construct, if we don't receive things, especially in the first seven. Right. If we don't receive things, then our adult life is created from a vacuum where we get to fulfill the things that we didn't get for other people. And that's what gives back to us. What did you need at that time? What did you actually need in those years that you didn't get?

Well, I was always craving, you know, you can talk about love, languages, but I was always craving that connection and that physical touch and you know, even like words of affirmation. And so I was always seeking that when I, you know, looking for that and ways that I would get that was when I was achieve and excel in sports or in academics. And so that further perpetuated that, you know, drive to keep doing it. And it's really interesting as I was an athlete my whole life and played college soccer and got a scholarship and everything. Once I had gotten to that place of everything breaking down and sinking to the lowest of the low and getting really sick and reflecting back, I kind of even questioned, did I even really want to play those sports and do all those things? Who am I? Or I was just living my life for other people's approval. Society, family, culture. And that was a really poignant moment. Very sad. And also there was some freedom there because when you have. When you're dealing with something like cancer, fear always comes up. And then you kind of realize, okay, I'm ultimately afraid to die. And then I realized that I wasn't. It wasn't that I was just afraid to die. I was afraid to die. Haven't never fully lived. And so that was the thing that was at the core of the fear is that I had just spent my whole life trying to achieve and trying to be that person that I thought other people wanted me to be. And so the grief and the sadness and the fear was like, I haven't really lived. And that was just, I mean, heartbreaking for me. And so then moving through that as like, what's the antidote to that? It's fully living now for however much longer I have left, you know, and so for the past three years has been just like a flurry of just growth and adventure and just writing the new richness. Yeah. You know, creating community and connection and beautiful experiences. And so, you know, letting go of the past. And it was all perfect, you know, learning from that experience.

Wow. And it's interesting, I can visualize you hard charging athlete, multiple sports, you know, excelling in school and doing all these things just to feel that moment of adulation, of acceptance, of like, oh, I'm loved. And how many people listening can relate to this? I mean, I think in a way, so many entrepreneurs are driven by a vacuum of energy that they didn't receive. And I think especially for women, you're right. My question for you is around this hard charging kind of alpha, masculine energy with. With women. How do you think they can balance that when they're creating? Because we have a lot of people that listen and they're creating, whether they're mothers in a family or they're owner of a business. What has been a guiding light for you to create from that place of a balance within that masculine, feminine, within yourself?

Yeah. Well, that's interesting. What really woke me up to that energy? I had attended some yoga workshops and Some things. And the prompting was to feel in my body and to feel energy and things. I had no clue what these people were talking about because I never really tapped into feeling in my body and feeling what was I actually emotionally feeling? That was all, you know, as an athlete, it's like just push through that.

Just keep going, put some dirt on it and get back out there.

You know, I even, yeah, just so interesting is, you know, using birth control pills to suppress the normal feminine menstrual cycle. Just like the things that we do to just to kind of negate, suppress, ignore our feminine flow and cycle. And so just that coming into my awareness and learning to feel my body and learning to feel my feelings. And when I say this is a feminine quality, it's not just for women, it's men too. And I think, I know that we both need this balance of masculine and feminine energy, but I think we're so hyper masculine and we live in this patriarchal hyper masculine culture which is like power money driven, achievement oriented, go, go, go. Stuck in our heads. And so for me, a lot of my healing was embracing the feminine energy, feminine qualities of dropping into my heart, feeling my feelings. For me instead of that hard charging athlete, it was learning to flow with music and to dance. And that started to wake up this creative feminine energy within me that I had not known before. And it felt so good because I was like, oh, here I am, here I am starting to wake up to my feminine power. And there is power in this feminine way of being. It's not a weakness, it's just a different way of expressing. We're not as women, we're not meant to express ourselves and be powerful in a masculine way. We can be powerful in a feminine way.

Oh, that's such a beautiful way to explain it. Because as men we feel, I'll speak from a man's vantage point, we feel so masculine and so powerful when we're around a woman who's just deeply embodied in her feminine.

Right.

And by the way, I think that the feminine and the masculine power are equally as powerful.

Exactly.

I don't think one's plus or minus at all.

Neither do I.

And I think the way that you got to this was by going through some pretty incredible thresholds, like thresholds that I, that I read about in your book that were just so incredibly painful. Like I'm, I'm hearing you explain them and I'm, and I'm feeling them in my body and I'm thinking, I don't know if I could have made it through that because after you got married to Dr. Chad Walding, that's when the sickness really began.

Yes.

Take us to this moment when the sickness really began. Because it was like sores in your mouth and then you wound up at Whole Foods one day and you saw something on a magazine and this magazine started a new path for you. What did the magazine say?

The magazine. So I'll give you a little before the magazine. What was happening leading up to the magazine was my husband Chad and I, we got married, kind of. I was that Division 1 athlete, go to physical therapy school, seemingly really healthy, vibrant, looks good on paper too. Looks good on paper, doing all the things, just rocking it. We get married, move to a new city, pass our licensure exams, all these kind of major stressors. And then things just started to fall apart. I started to, in terms of things, it was my body, I just started to break out in rashes all over my entire body and kind of like poison ivy, like oozy, itchy, painful rashes. Hair started falling out, started to drop weight and get fatigued. So like imagine playing Division 1 collegiate sports and then like feeling exhausted going up the stairs like that. It was like, oh, wait a second, you know, this is not normal. And then just doctors not really knowing what was wrong with me, like normal quote, unquote, blood work. And then obviously I was super, super sickly and having all these issues going on. So that, that persisted for a year, a year and a half, almost two. And so I just kind of grabbed, I kept getting sick frequently and then I developed this infection that manifested as these pus filled lesions in my mouth and throat. And so I couldn't really eat very much or swallow. I had to go on disability from my job as a physical therapist. And I still had all the rashes. So I literally would pack my body full of ice to sleep because I was in so much pain. And then I just would be in bed. And the doctors gave me four rounds of antibiotics in a month and a half and it just kept coming back.

So did they ever know what it was?

No. No, they didn't.

Even at the end, no one ever knew.

Well, they suspected some sort of potentially viral or bacterial infection and they were worried about it getting into my bloodstream and it being a fatal situation. And so I was terrified. I thought I was potentially going to die. And so in the interim between antibiotics, it was almost like I would start to get better and feel a little bit better and can get out of bed and then it would come back within a Few days of going off that round of antibiotic. And so in that interim of that last. In between the last round, Chad took me to Whole Foods. And so I wanted to get out of the house. And I was standing there and it was. And this article from the well Being Journal, It's a great journal, if anyone doesn't know about that. It's a great scholarly wellness.

The well Being journal.

Yeah, give them a shout out. Saved my life pretty much.

Thanks. Well Being journal.

Yeah, thanks well Being journal. And at the corner of my eye as we were checking out, it said natural solutions to drug resistant infections. And so I was like, oh, I have a drug resistant infection. Obviously, I mean, not knowing a whole lot about nutrition or health in general, I mean, as a physical therapist, but I didn't know much about, about holistic or natural healing like I do now. And so I got the magazine, I was reading it on the way home and this Dr. Cass Ingram is curing malaria with oregano oil and plant medicines. And I'm like, oh, I get the book. And I'm like, why am I as well get this $20 bottle of oregano oil and try it? And so I took that and within three days, the infection was cleared up. And for the first time in a long time, I was getting some relief from my skin. Wow.

Just from oregano oil.

Yeah, 20 bucks after seeing one of the most sought after immune specialists in Austin. And so that was a huge pivotal moment for me of going, okay, there's this whole world of natural healing and it's so, so powerful, obviously, like, what else is there? And so that became my, you could almost say that my drive and passion for athletics, like, really just shifted into like, okay, I will heal myself and I will learn all of these things. And so I dove into, you know, natural healing, nutrition, you know, working with more holistic minded practitioners.

There was one book you read, the Cure is in the Cupboard.

Yes.

Tell us about that book. Because I hadn't heard about it before you mentioned it.

Well, that was actually in the article, the Wellbeing journal. It was Dr. Cass Ingram's book, the Cure Is in the Cupboard. So he mentioned. It was mentioned in that article. So I got it, Chad got it from the library. And then it was all about oregano oil. And so I read it.

Oh, so that was in conjunction with what you did with the oregano oil.

And it gave protocols and stuff. And it was just a book I got at the library.

So. Okay, so this is when it really begins. Is this exploration into an entirely new World.

Yeah, totally.

Coming from academia and sports and then of course, traditional Western medicine treatment where you just do a barrage of antibiotics.

And whatnot, pills and cream.

It wasn't working, but. But what really hit me in the stomach and in the heart is like, that's not where it stopped. Your journey continued. You had done this heavy workout years later, and you were feeling around, you were sore, and then you felt something. And in that moment, like your question of faith was, was really like, is there a God or not? Like, what's going on? Can you take us to that moment? Because I think out of all that I know about you, like, for me, that was the one that hit me the hardest.

Yeah, me too. That was pretty intense. There's a lot of intense moments in my life, but that was up there. So what, Josh, you're referring to. So it's been about eight years after describing that Whole Foods revelation and really working on dialing in my health, nutrition supplements, seeing practitioners and getting better, going back to work. When I say getting better, it was a really slow, gradual process and starting to get my strength and my stamina back. And eight years later, with this laser focused dream of starting a family, I'm going to eat perfect, I'm going to do all the things and I'm going to get a nutrition certification and I'm going to research the heck out of everything and I will fix myself. We are getting ready to go to our dream, my dream trip to Italy. Because I'm half Italian, I wanted to go to Italy and start a family. And so a week before, week or two before we were leaving, like you mentioned, I had worked out and I was sore. I found, when I was poking around, I found this lump in my breast and I just dropped me to my knees because I knew that it was cancer. I knew it wasn't good. I just had this. I kind of had this panic attack going, like, no, this is not okay. I worked so hard. I don't deserve this. You know, why is this happening to me? It's not fair. You know, all the things you can imagine, thinking and feeling, going through that. And so part of that thought stream and feeling was, you know, what am I missing? Because I've done everything. And you couldn't find somebody more dedicated and spent thousands of dollars on out of pocket treatments and exploration of my health. And so we went to Italy. It was bittersweet. We didn't start the family. We came back. I'm like, what am I going to do? Because I really felt, I knew I didn't feel called to conventional treatment of conventional chemo and radiation. And at this point, I hadn't even gone to see an oncologist or a doctor about this. But I knew just something. I had to look at things differently. I'm like, what am I? I can keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. And so it just felt like there was some deeper layers that I needed to address, but I wasn't quite sure. And so instead of researching like I normally did and polling people and trying to call practitioners and get people's opinions, I really sat with it and in the middle of the night, woke up and I was crying and the dark room alone and just asking, like, what am I supposed to do here, God? Like, why? Why is this happening and what do you want me to do? And I heard, you know, this is kind of like the. This is kind of a poignant moment for me too, a pivotal moment of, like, you know, I would say that I would pray, and I was. Had this Christian upbringing background, and I'd pray and I went to church, but I didn't never really hear the answers, if that makes sense. I really aren't here or be able to listen to my intuition. And I heard this. I would call this divine whisper. If you're going to survive, you're going to have to learn to listen to your heart. And I felt of peace move over me, but then I felt panic because I'm like, I don't know how to do that. You want me to survive cancer and navigate this? What? I need you to. And it's like, no, it's like, go within and listen to your heart. And it's like, okay, how do I do that?

It's so funny. Your analytical mind is like, how do I go into the heart? It's like you're using the head to try to figure out a heart problem.

Yeah, exactly. And it's so funny.

How do I do that heart thing?

Yeah, how do I do that? And so many of the books, I'm always, like, going to books and trying to learn things. And it's kind of funny. Part of this process of healing, I kept hearing from different avenues, you know, it's all about letting go and surrender. And I'm like, you know, then that's such a, like, nebulous thing too. And I'm like, so it's funny that you said that, because I got. Of course, like, I got a book from Dr. David Hawkins called Letting Go. And I read the whole thing and I put it down, I looked at my Husband. And I said, I still don't understand, like, where's the ABC? 1, 2, 3 of how to let go? And like, easy steps here. Because I'm not. He just looked at me and he was like, honey, you just let go.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, so that has been my journey of the past three years, of what does it really mean to listen to your heart? And the healing really has been on the spiritual and emotional layer that I hadn't really tapped into. I spent eight years laser focused on healing my physical body. And so this has been the realization of, oh, we're so much more than these physical beings. And I think that's what. I think one of the reasons that there is so much chronic disease in cancer is that we're not getting it. We're fighting this illness and we're trying to fix ourselves. And we're just kind of addressing the problem from the aspect of the physical only, like, oh, if I just cut it out or if I radiate it or chemo it or maybe even just take the right supplements or eat the right things, and those are. That's a important part. But it's so much more.

Yeah.

So much more.

The energy systems in the body, they can't be tricked. They can be bypassed for a while, but they can't be tricked in the long term.

Right.

And I think about, like, thank you. Thank you, by the way, just for sharing these incredible thresholds.

Yeah.

You know, because I personally haven't had anyone in my family that's dealt with cancer. And so I know that there's a lot of emotion behind it and a lot of fear and a lot of, like, real human. You know, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting dichotomy to be a spirit in this physical body. It is trying to figure it out. My question for you is, in that moment, did you have a lack of faith? Like, how did your relationship with God change or spirit change? In that moment in the darkness, did you doubt that there was a God? Like, why is this happening to me? What was that? Like?

I don't know that I ever completely, you know, if I was writing off God completely, I just really didn't understand. And there was this element of this Catholic upbringing of, you know, a more rigid upbringing of just even the thought of, like, am I being punished for something? Did I do something wrong? Right. This belief that many people have of like, you know, if something catastrophic happens and we, we are really quick to label this as bad and then like, well, Then I must fundamentally have done something wrong or I'm not getting something. You know, and that was the sense too, of, like, something's wrong with me. I'm not getting it. Maybe I'm being punished. Maybe I'm not smart enough. Maybe something like, it's this worthiness, like, I'm not enough or I'm not. Something's fundamentally wrong with me. And that was sort of that feeling and conversation with God that I was having. And then the more that I, you know, the teachers that I come across in my path and the books, and it was like, really realizing that the God that is love does not punish, does not, you know, create disease. And that fundamental belief is blocking my healing. You know, really believing that I, like, somehow deserve to be, you know, punished for something, or God is causing this and switching that and coming to this place of, like, the power that created me, that created the cosmos, that created these beautiful sunsets, and this extraordinary world is also within me and can heal me. Oh, you switch your belief to that. And how much more are you likely to experience and be open to receiving that healing and working with that power within instead of, like, it's a completely different approach. And so that's where I really started to. And we're talking about deeper, deeper important, fundamental pieces of healing is like, looking at those belief systems, looking at, you know, the emo, the suppressed emotions, and, you know, just the spiritual aspect of, you know, who am I really?

Yep.

And so, yeah, that was. That's been the. The past few years of that journey.

How do you identify with higher power, spirit God now compared to that previous model? You know, you're raised with the Catholic Christian model.

Yeah.

How has that changed for you now? What do you see your connection to higher power as now?

I think for me that, you know, the connection to. To God is like, God is everywhere, present and in me and all around me and is in you, and we're all connected versus this guy in the sky far away. Yeah. Which is kind of, you know, it.

Always makes me kind of chuckle, like, do you really think that there's a bearded man in the sky?

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you know, God is everywhere and in all things and. Yeah. And pure love and has that the power to heal and to create. And I am a divine aspect of creation, divine manifestation of this creative power.

You've come to this realization because of your work, but I. I know because I've gone through work myself, and I know a lot of people listening, maybe somebody listening right now as somebody in Their family that has cancer.

Yeah.

And sometimes in those moments of constriction and of pain and of darkness.

Yes.

All there is is just this like response to get out of the pain. There's like people try to get out of the pain as quickly as possible instead of pausing. It's almost like the pain is the biggest teacher. And we had Paul check on the show and he talked about pain being our most powerful teacher. What did the pain of going through cancer really teach you?

Oh, gosh, so many things. So I guess the biggest thing and I guess one of the biggest messages I think that we can shift this whole chronic disease epidemic is if we can begin to open or shift our perception that dis ease is potentially this divine opportunity that's this catalyst for radical growth and transformation. Like, hey, this is an invitation, a wake up call to go in and to really remove all that isn't you and to wake into the truth of who you are, to get to that, the core of. Because you've been. There's something I say in the book is that healing isn't so much about gaining something outside of yourself. It's about. It's letting go of all that isn't the deep down divine you. And so I think for so many of us, we're trying to like fix and we're trying to find something outside. But it's really an unraveling and a letting go of all that is, you know, all the fear and all the, you know, negative thoughts and beliefs and patterns that we picked up along the way in this life school. And it's, you know, kind of fundamentally going back to that pure consciousness of love and remembering that. So, you know, and I think that these times of darkness and pain are like you said, just the greatest teachers, you know. And so I had a teacher that always talked about constriction or contraction as expansion waiting to happen. And so if we can remember if, even if it's not something that you personally experience, but you're hearing, you know, us talk about this or other people have experienced this as well. It's like that dark night of the soul is this beautiful kind of like cocoon like experience where, you know, the, the caterpillar is liquefying. Like literally in real life, when you have a caterpillar becoming a butterfly inside the dark cocoon, it becomes like liquid soup and it's like completely breaking down and transforming and it's like liquidy and stretchy and messy and probably painful and weird and uncomfortable. And it's like remembering that that's part of the transformation process and then becomes this beautiful butterfly. And so it's just remembering that in those dark places to honor everything that's happening and to ask. Sometimes it's helpful for me to ask, like, what am I to learn here? Not that I don't have all the feelings of like, I wish I could get out of this quicker. But now I've learned enough to know that there's like, okay, there's, there's gold in here and I may not find it for a while.

Yeah.

But you know, it's at least nice to be able to look at those things differently now.

I think it's incredibly admirable the way that you've approached your healing. Just being able to hang out with you this past half day and just see the way that you and your husband interact and see what you're all about. You know, I can kind of see the power of your heart and I can understand what you're creating in the world. And it's interesting because there is a decision fork where people get cancer. Do you believe that it's always something that people attract by their unprocessed emotions or do you think that genetics ever play a role in getting cancer? In other words, is this energetically something that they brought in or does sometimes spirit bring them cancer to forge their greater growth?

Hmm, that's a good question. I mean, we were talking about genetics, you know, from that perspective. You know, I. There was an interesting statistic about. I think it's 5%. Around 5% of cancer is genetic and the rest is environmental. Which I think is fascinating because we are so, you know, especially my work as a, as a practitioner and not just cancer, but disease in general. It's like, oh, it runs in my family and you know, it's, it's genetic and there's nothing I can do about it. And I think in that way it's kind of used as like an excuse to kind of stay stuck in victimhood mentality that I don't have any control. So I think in that way, looking at it from that perspective of that there is a lot of environmental components gives us some, not necessarily control but that we, well, we do have, you know, we do have a lot of control over our life in some respects. And then there's this other aspect where we don't and we have to completely surrender. So it's like this, like one of my mentors talks about, you know, taking surrendered action. So still, you know, having. We have this element of being, having this co creative power with the divine. And then what we think and what we believe and what we say all contribute to our reality and what happens in our experience. And so in that. In that place, we have this. We have some. We have control over what we create. But then there's this whole element of, like, this force that's so much bigger and greater and knows us better than we can ever imagine, so that we have to stay in this place of surrender. So it's this really fine line that we have to, like, be really fluid in. But as far as, you know, your question about attracting this, you know, dis ease by our thought, word and feeling.

Or even unprocessed emotion or unprocessed emotion, too much fear around even going there to process it.

Right.

Which then culminates into a manifestation of disease.

Right. So, yes, I think that is definitely, you know, part of the process. And sometimes there's just things that we don't understand, like, you know, and there's, like, children that get cancer. And so I think that. I think it extends beyond, like, generations and the collective consciousness, you know, and so it's so much more than we can really understand fully.

It's a big mystery, right? It's a big mystery, Brenda. Like, I was at Thanksgiving with my brother this year, and it was just like, the most profound Thanksgiving because we were talking and walking and he said, you know, because I was asking him about God, because my relationship with God has changed a lot. I call God spiritual. And so my relationship with spirit has become closer through my own health thresholds this year. And we were both just talking, and all of a sudden we both agreed that, you know, part of life is honoring the mystery. Yeah, it's honoring the mystery that we don't always get the answers. And I'm a podcast host, so I want the answers.

Yeah, you do.

I want all the answers right now. People listening. Like, we all want the answers, right. Especially for, like, driven people that want to create things.

Yeah. And then the easy steps, like, 1, 2, 3.

Right? Quick step, tell me how to get there. Tell me how to get into my heart space. Yeah, and I'll go there. But. But my question to you is around this. This honoring of the.

If.

If we know that so many things in this world happen and there's no explanation for them, how do you continue to honor the mystery? With all you've been through? Like, what is it about you that allows you to continue to honor that mystery?

Well, that's the thing is that, like, just when you think that, you know, and you've got it figured out. And that's exactly when kind of life kind of slaps you in the face. You're like, oh, I don't know. And there's something. Something beautiful. And like that. That moment of surrender. There's something so profoundly. I don't know if you've ever experienced a moment like this, so profoundly beautiful and connected to source that it's like sometimes those events and those things happen that really drop you to your knees and you have to completely surrender. Is the closest that we feel connected to God. And all that is. And which is the feeling state that I think we are all craving is this wanting to be fully loved and connected. And I think sometimes those moments of surrender and mystery are when we feel that so much. So just remembering that, like, I had. Do I have time to share this story?

You have as much time as you want.

So this is. This is. This is the. So from the. From the girl that was reading about letting go and surrender and like, couldn't get it after she read the whole book and was still trying to figure it out. So then I had this moment that I called in my book. I called the Alchemy of Surrender. So I had finished or I had just gotten the mastectomy, so that was something I didn't want to do. But I felt my heart calling me to do this holistic alternative medicine and do the mastectomy. So, you know, as a woman, getting your breast removed, that's never something that you're, you know, super excited about and a lot of feelings around that. And so I. It was right after the surgery, and I was always wondering, you know, how would I. How am I going to feel? What's it going to be like to see it for the first time? Okay. And my mom had come down to stay with me, and she's phenomenal, amazing. And so it was time for me to get into the shower for the first time and unwrap the. The bandage. And I. And I told my mom, I want to be alone. So I went into the bathroom and I shut the door and I started to unwrap the bandage. And I had these drains coming out of my rib cage, so I needed some help to get in the shower. But before that I was like, I just need a moment because I don't know what's going to happen. I was scared. And so I unwrapped the bandage and I'm looking in the mirror and I see this huge scar. And like a. My breast is gone and my breath just like, it just gasped and it was like my thought process started to go into, oh, that's horrific. That's ugly. Like, what did you do? I mean, it was like everything contracted. And then it was like, no, like, there was music playing on Pandora. Like, random, right? And so as I was feeling all these feelings of, like, ugly, horrific. What did you do? And just feeling all these emotions and, like, the tears starting to come in my eyes of just, like, disgust. And then the song Let It Be came on the Beatles, you know, and then I just took a deep breath and I was like, no more tears. Like, you're beautiful. And there's just this magical, like, moment of, I've cried enough tears and I'm no longer playing that story. And, like, this is the path that my heart guided me on. And, like, I just surrendered fully and I just let it be. And I invited my mom because I was scared at what my mom was gonna think or anyone, how ugly it was gonna be or whatever. And so I invited my mom in and looked in her eyes to find any semblance of. Is she disgusted? And she just looked at me with love, and she helped me take a shower. And then I sat down on the vanity and she wrapped me back up, and she started combing and braiding my hair. And I just started crying because it was so beautiful. Like, my mom, I'm 30 something years old, and I had this really beautiful moment of my mom just loving me and caring for me and playing with my hair like I was a little kid. And it was a moment of, like, such contrast emotions of that mind chatter of like, this is awful. This is horrible. This is disgusting. You're. You know, and then like, what a beautiful. I'm so grateful. And what a profound sense of love I feel right now. And it's like, that is just. So was this just the most powerful memory and moment of what's possible when we just surrender to the mystery of whatever? This is what it is right now. And so instead of feeling all of these horrible disgust and shame and whatever, to full acceptance and love and vulnerability with my mom, to feeling joy and gratitude and connection in a matter of, like, minutes.

Wow. I just got choked up right there just hearing your story. Thank you for sharing that. I was just visualizing you in the bathroom, and I'm just thinking, this is actually the real life metaphor of love versus fear.

Yes.

Because in that bathroom, you could have chosen. You could have chosen to let fear win. Let's be real. You could have just been like, you know what? I hate my body. I hate what's going on?

I hate my body. Not fair.

But there was something, and this is my deep question for you. There's something in you that allowed you to choose the love. What was it?

Well, this has been, you know, we talked about, you know, my journey of listening to my heart. Right. And the heart is all about love, and it's all about, like, in any given moment, we can choose love or fear. And that was been about, you know, letting go of fear. This, like, I've been practicing, I've been reading. I've been, what is. How do I do that? And I've been spending a lot of time in solitude and, you know, really doing that deep inner work and practicing, you know, letting go. And what does that mean? To surrender? And so I had the awareness because I had been practicing. It's like it was this, like, divine. And that's what we all have, this divine whisper. We all have this, like, voice within. If we listen to it, if we get into the stillness, if we get into nature and we start practicing. And that's what it started to talk to me. I'm like, oh, I can actually hear my intuition. And that was the practice of getting into the heart space and from the heart instead of the head. And so that was that moment of the girl that read the book and didn't understand she wasn't stuck in her head. And all the words on the page didn't make sense until they did. Until I created space around to actually have the experience of letting go and not just be the words on the page, but I think we have to understand it. Oftentimes we have to understand it intellectually and then allow it to drop in to the heart to. To actually have the experience or the beingness of it. And so that was what that was for me, was the moment of. I had this experience of where I, you know, this voice of let it be no more tears. Not that you shouldn't cry, but it's like, no more tears. And like, I'm just going to be in this place of fear and shame and berating myself. It was loving myself, you know, and hearing my heart say, no more tears.

Honey, you know, what are the odds of. Of that song?

Oh, I know.

Coming on at that moment. This is not a planned moment, you know, this is a moment that unfolded.

Yeah.

And to me, that's just evidence. It's just evidence that there is something else divinely orchestrating everything. And in that moment, it became this beautiful teacher that you got to share with us. To make my throat constrict yeah. And I'm just feeling like, wow, after all you went through, like, how did you summon the courage to then write a book about it? You know, because there's a segue between, like, your healing and everything else. I mean, goodness, like, creating a book and being so open and vulnerable for somebody that, like, had a learning curve for vulnerability as well. It's not like you came out of the womb, like, I'm here, I'm vulnerable.

No, no.

Yeah. You know, so how did you summon this courage to then write this book? Because it seems like that would be an incredible bridge to cross.

Yes, you're absolutely right. And I had no desire in the past to be. To write a book or wouldn't necessarily say I was a writer or have any grand plans for that. But again, I made the commitment three years ago of letting my heart guide me. And if you're going to survive, you're going to have to learn to listen to my heart. So my whole practice and my whole commitment for the past three years is no longer am I going to let my mind, you know, my head run the show. Although, I mean, it definitely, you know, kind of takes over sometimes and I have to come back into my heart, you know, you're still not perfect.

You're not loving the mountain yet.

No, no, no. But the commitment, the overarching commitment is to come back into my heart space. And so, you know, instead of trying to figure out my life's purpose and trying to figure out what to do, and chasing peace and chasing joy, when I. When I made the commitment to listen to my heart, and it's like, God, use me. The prayer is not like, God, help me figure out what I'm supposed to do. It's like, God, use me so that I might know the joy of being used by you. It's a prayer from Marianne Williamson. So this whole shift from trusting that God that is love or source or divine, whatever you want to call it, is within me, has my highest and best good in mind, beyond my wildest dreams. If I align with that and be like God, use me. Whenever I started to do that, it's like my life just. It got so much more rich and so much more joyful instead of me trying to figure it out. So my way of living is to live from my heart. And I got, you know, last year, the end of last year, it was this divine nudge thing going on. And, you know, hearing it in Meditation of Birth, the book.

Wait, was this actually a voice you heard, like, through a loudspeaker or something came out of you.

It's like one of those voices within. It's like. Because I, you know, if you're still.

Enough to hear it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So birth the book. And, you know, I desire to have a baby. And it was like, birth the book and then birth the baby. And it was like, oh, wow, I don't know how to write a book. I don't want to write a book. And so I was, like, kind of resisting that for a little bit. Like, yeah. But, like, I don't really know how. And, like, I don't really want to go there. You know, do I really have. And then it was like, kept coming. And then I got a sense that. And then also in talking to some of my mentors, I really got a sense that it was part of my healing journey still. Part of the continual healing journey of, you know, really going and into everything that I'd experienced and perhaps a way of integrating everything that had happened.

And do you feel like, in a way, the book has been catharsis for you?

Catharsis and like, bringing up some remnants of things that I thought I had healed and it coming back up for me to look at it on a deeper level and to. Because even, you know, the fear you talked about not really knowing anyone with cancer, but if you have. Dealing with someone that has had cancer or you have cancer or any sort of catastrophic, potentially catastrophic illness, when we're facing death, it's like the fear that grips you. And so, like, going back into those places and to feel that stuff again, it was kind of felt scary to go back there because I'm like, I don't want to get stuck in that old way of being in this fearful state.

And so can we pause there? Because that's a big point. You just mentioned the exploration of feeling a feeling sometimes can seem so scary because of the fear of being stuck.

Yeah.

And I'll just raise my hand, like, for men. The reason why I believe that a lot of men don't go to that place where they want to feel something.

Yeah.

And this is my own journey, is because in my life, I felt if I stay there for too long, I'm going to get stuck. I'm going to get stuck at the bottom of the ocean. I'm going to. But in your journey, this is actually not the case.

Yeah.

Would you say that part of this book is giving people permission to choose a different narrative rather than like, oh, I'm getting stuck if I feel my feelings? Like, don't you Think in a way, your book is actually a permission slip to feel something.

Yes. Yeah. And I feel like we all have this deep desire to thrive and to live our most. Our best life and to feel, you know, peace and happiness and purpose and passion and connection. And, like, the only way to experience our optimal life is to, you know, feel like part of the human experience is this symphony of emotions. You know, from happiness and joy to, you know, sadness and anger. It's like, we talked about this earlier. It's like this contrast. And allowing all of the symphony of emotions is part of what it means to be human. So giving yourself permission to feel those. And one of my mentors always says, like, feel the feeling and love what you feel. Like, no matter what it is. Love the feeling, breathe, touch it, love, stay, breathe, feel. And, like, if we allow this symphony of. It's meant to be. Emotions are energy in motion. They're meant to be fluid. And so when we allow them and we feel them, they move through. They don't get stuck unless we don't. If we don't allow it, to feel it. Because no matter what, like, there's an incredible book called Feelings Buried Alive Never Die. Like, you're gonna feel. You're a human. So no matter what, it's happening. So you might as well feel it and experience and allow that to move. Because all feelings, you know, our fear transforms into face and sadness, to joy and anger, to authority. And it's like this beautiful, like, fluid thing if we allow it and we feel it and we have the tools to be able to do that. And so I think the unfortunate thing is we're not taught how to. And we're taught to kind of, like, stuff it, and it becomes problematic because, you know, that energy stays stuck and creates physical disharmony in the body. So part of it is learning to feel our feelings on a daily basis and to love that and allow it and give permission. The other part is to. In the healing journey is to do the work, to go and allow those stuck, maybe scary, you know, emotions, maybe trauma, you know, to go back and to feel it and move through it, to allow that to release. And that's where I think people don't want to go because they don't want to go back and feel maybe the, you know, the horrible thing that happened when they were, you know, 11, whatever. And I think that's. That's unfortunate because, like, that is often, like, the root.

Yeah. Because there's no template for that deep feeling that's scary to look at. There's no template to explore that. It's a very uncharted water for most people.

Yeah.

So I know in your book there are some specific tools, and I know we're not gonna have time to go over all the tools, but maybe give us one of the most powerful tools for people to actually feel the feeling on a practical level, you know, in the modern, busy, frenetic world, how do we get people with a tool, Give them a tool to actually feel.

What I started doing with my. I do with my. My female clients is we start our sessions with checking in with pies. So it's just checking in with physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual and where they're at. So we take a moment to scan, like, the physical body, the emotional body, the mind, and then realize that the one that's doing the scanning is who we really are, is the spirit is who we are. So it's really interesting is that when a woman is allowed to or a person is just given the prompting to check in with how I feel, and you actually pause and you feel. And you're like, oh, like, I'm actually angry, you know, or. And I find it really interesting is sometimes that the woman will go into descriptive words and stories, and they don't actually know how to name the feeling. Like, it's just so foreign. You don't even know how to name it.

There's, like, no word for it yet.

Yeah, like, well, I.

What is this thing?

Yeah, like, I don't know. I. You know, I. Feeling pretty good or feeling. It's like, no, that's not an emotion. Pretty good. Like, you know, it's like, okay, let's go deeper. And it's just like, we have no practice in it. So even just like, checking in with, like, practicing every day is like, oh. And the physical body is very much. They call it the body mind. So, you know, the physical body is very tied into the emotions. So, you know. You know, like, whenever you feel nervous, you get butterflies in your stomach. Right. So it's like that physical response to an emotion. So our body and our feelings are constantly in harmony. So when we check in with our physical body and we do a scan and you're like, oh, I've got some pain in my neck. I've got some tension in my low back. And then you go into the feeling state, and you're like, oh, I'm feeling that pain in my neck. And you're like, oh, I'm starting. Oh, I'm angry. I'm really angry at my husband right now. You Start to just have awareness. Like you just check in with, you know, your physical, mental, emotional, spiritual bodies. I think that's such a basic tool. But when I have a woman practice that every day she starts to become more intelligent, emotionally intelligent to be able to feel what she's feeling and then, then start doing perhaps some other tools to move that energy and move that emotion. Yeah. You know, instead of it just like kind of being stuffed, I didn't even realize.

And this I believe. Thank you for sharing that. Because this I believe in a way is the modern day explanation of the deeper science of stillness and meditation. Because the scanning and I remember in Vipassana I did a 10 day silent retreat. And part of it is like us focusing on just the breath in our nose for hours at a time.

Right.

And when we focus on just our breathing, whatever's really going on with the body psychosomatically will kind of bubble to the surface. So I love this pies chart that you probably have in the book. Right. The pies is a chart or as a framework.

It's just a framework. I actually learned this, I think from Chad, my husband, doing some men's work at some circle that they did, but they often do this check in. So I do this with my women's circle and I do it with my clients. But yeah, it's just bringing awareness and.

It almost sounds too good to be true. But that's just your logical mind thinking, Josh, I'm saying that out loud. And for anyone else that's thinking, if the stillness is so powerful, why aren't more people doing it? I think it's because the narrative in society right now is about production and especially with social media in the angle of perfection. How do you see your work growing and affecting in a positive way the narrative of society about production and about constant hustle? How do you think that your work will change at least a small part of that?

Yeah, well, I think my work with women is changing, you know, and my own experience and it's my own continued journey is when we're starting to embrace, going back to the feminine of the feminine of this creative power, this nurturing and this just softening and allowing and kind of holding that instead of going out and being active to being more allowing and still. So cultivating that in daily life actually helps us tap into our intuition and our creative power so that we can go out and create and do something extraordinary from a place of heart centeredness. And it's powerful and effective, but it doesn't have to be. Go, go Go, push, push, push. Production oriented. Just taking the time to retreat, to restore, to replenish, to be still. Fueling yourself from that place and allowing that time often makes people more productive and more productive, effective, efficient and more in line with love and truth and really what they're meant to create in the world anyways. And you know, that feminine aspect is also this idea of inclusiveness of the whole instead of just like, I'm gonna go out and do this and get mine. And like, you know, I think that bringing the feminine quality to the world and I think that's what so many teachers will say. It's like this, the rising of the feminine in the male and the female to bring balance to the energy is what is going to heal the world. And so I think all of us can learn, you know, relearn and embrace some of those qualities of retreating and replenishing, nurturing ourselves so that we can go out and create from a more aligned place. And I think, you know, when I'm working with women, it's like helping them create those daily practices and self care practices and things so that they can be really effective in the world. But not just effective, but also like really loving themselves and loving what they're doing and not just being run ragged and like totally melting down and getting sick.

Yes, this is what drives sickness in all people is this constant need for the white knuckling that something has to work out and if it doesn't work out, then the world is ending. Well, I think sometimes, sometimes people's world end way before their deepest fears are even manifested. It's because the body says stop.

We're listening to the body, we're not.

Listening to the body. So this, this physical intelligence, this emotional intelligence that we've talked so much about today, I'm curious how you see this unfolding in the next couple of years for you. You know, I know that the program's going to grow and there's going to be circles that you run and there's all these things that you're, you're serving. But if you could wave a magic wand, what would that look like in two years?

In two years. What I love and what I see is creating experiences for women to come and to truly heal and to really bring all these elements that we're talking about in an immersion type situation so that they can experience what that's like and then go out into their, you know, into their homes, into their environments, into implement that on a day to day basis. And so like I love just, we didn't talk much about this, but, you know, one of the pieces, the nine essentials that I talk about in my book is connection and authentic connection. We were talking about, you know, loneliness being an epidemic factor and also a piece that contributes to illness and unhappiness and stress in the world. And so I love this element. And it's. And there was a really powerful healing process for me during my healing journey of what that really means, like, what it really means and what the experience is to have sisterhood and really authentic connection, meaning being seen, heard and valued and deriving strength and sustenance from that relationship. So that's a definition from Brene Brown and her work on what connection really is. And when I ask women, do you have connection in your life based on this definition? Because they say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I. When I actually define connection as being, you know, seen, are you. Do you feel seen, heard and valued? And do you derive strength and sustenance from your relationships? They're like, no. Most of them are like, no, I don't have that. And I think that is profound. And I think that's one of the things, you know, that I'm here also on the planet to cultivate and to bring to the world is to cultivate awareness around it and also experiences so that women can. Because there's profound things that happen when women come together and they feel seen, heard, and valued by other women, that there are healing that takes place. You know, sometimes some women in my circles are like, you know, I've been to therapy, and I've never got to this place until I was with these other women that we took our masks off and we were just really real. And one woman shares her story and goes there to that deep place, allows permission for another woman to do the same. And there's just deep healing that happens. So that's my heart.

And also, if we're in this feminine uprising, the call to arms is also for the men.

Oh, absolutely.

You know, I've done men's work since 2014. I still have a long way to go. And that's fine. I'm taking it one day at a time. But look, if the women are going to grow in their power and the way in which they impact the world, then it's not about victimizing men or demasculating men, which is. I think there is an edge out there that a lot of men feel. And it's the evolving of the masculine to this other place where it's like, okay, well, instead of being angry or upset, or allowing the narrative of victimization to even occur with me too, or we too or anything. Can we actually just relax the war aspect of this conversation and can we bring it to a place where men and women are doing work together? There's women's circles, there's men's circles, there's women's work, there's men's work. And we're kind of of stacking these stairs together. I mean, isn't this what it's really all about?

Absolutely, absolutely. And even, you know, we even had a beautiful co ed circle in our home and just like talking about these things.

Oh, you have co ed circles?

Yeah, we had.

Why do you go that way? Why do you do co ed?

It was just a great, you know, bringing. Because a lot of in our community we have our women, my women's circle, some, many of their partners or men are in my husband's men's group. And we all get together and so we thought, oh, let's get around and share, you know, and gather. And it's so beautiful to witness men and being in this vulnerable, you know, allowing. And they love it. They allow, they love that space to allow that feminine part of them, that emotional, not that just emotional is feminine, but allow them to fully emote and to express and to feel and to share in a safe container with other women and men. And it's really beautiful to watch men. And I learn a lot too from men sharing. So, yeah, I do think that's what it's all about, is that we are allowing the feminine energy to unfold and to cultivate that as men and women. I think that will ultimately, like I mentioned before, bring so much healing to the world because there has been just an over dominating, over balanced masculine. And so we're just allowing that feminine, you know, those energies to rise and to come into balance. And I think that's where we have this beautiful harmony in the world.

All right, so for all the men listening, you can be soft and you can still chop wood. Sexy and be sexy. You can have it all. We can have this all if we say so.

Yes.

And this permission, that really goes down to the core of belief, right? Our beliefs, if someone's listening right now, they're like, oh my God, I am so inspired by this story. And by honestly these, these takeaways, like these teachings of permission to feel the power of belief, understanding that everything in our body is a signal that's trying to tell us something. If they could do one thing at the end of this that would allow them to for both men and women, maybe they're separate answers. One thing that they could actually lean into those feelings more or get better wellness in their life. Really? What would they do?

I've got two things. Can I say two things? Okay, so the first thing, when it comes on an individual basis, men and women, I think the most powerful thing is to have a consistent morning practice. And a consistent morning, I like to say, spiritual practice of just taking time to connect with your heart, to remember, ground yourself in truth and love. And, you know, for me, that looks like. And for what I share with my clients and help them cultivate and create, you know, meditation, heart coherence, which is, you know, something a heart math technique and hydration and movement. So just having like this really powerful morning practice where we're able to check in and connect and start your day from that elevated emotional state. And then it completely changes your entire day. And there's elements of creating an intention and a vision for your life. And that's what is all encapsulated in this morning practice that I have that I feel like is was so important in my healing. Because when we were talking about fear and how it grips you so much, especially when you're in this place of trying to heal from something scary, you have to take that time every day to focus on your heart and to allow that fear to fall away and to remember who you are. Like the power that created me can heal me. To remind yourself of those things instead of just getting wrapped up into the day into potentially the scary things or the appointments or the doctors or whatever. So I say for. And I think beyond the disease, if you're just anyone wanting to live your most optimal life is just having a solid morning practice. And it can look a lot of different ways to a lot of different people. But I think across the board, for me, for my clients, for spiritual teachers and people that I've studied that have healed from amazing things consistently, having this this morning practice is super powerful. So that would be one, one thing.

And that's for everyone.

That's for everyone.

That's for all human beings that breathe.

All of. All of us.

Which, by the way, is breathing part of your morning practice?

So, yes. And you know, I'm a Heart Mass certified coach. And so part of some of the techniques are include these breathing practices with creating elevated emotional states. And I tie in visualization. But so yeah, breathing is part of that. And the other thing that just came to mind, and I'm just going to say it because I think it's you know, we talked about tapping into our emotions and the feminine, and I think if you are like, how do I even. Like, what does that even look like? Like, I think one of the most important things about that is having a willingness to lean into vulnerability to being vulnerable. And it's vulnerable to feel your feelings. And it's vulnerable when we want to connect with other people and share our feelings. And like, I mentioned Brene Brown and her work, and I think reading some of her books is really helpful. But being willing to. She calls it leaning into the vulnerability and vulnerability being this bridge or this pathway to all that we really desire. It's like more connection, more intimacy, more love, and more peace. And that. We all crave that, but we're not willing to be vulnerable. And so for me, and what I see also in my clients is being willing to feel and being in that vulnerable place. There's always this crazy, amazing gift on the other side of, you know, just coming together in, you know, a circle and sharing your heart and your feelings in a sacred, safe container. Not everyone deserves to get every piece of you, but in a sacred, safe container and sharing, oh, there's so much healing on the other side. So willing to be vulnerable and connecting with each other. Because I think there's power in healing and connection and not just healing, but thriving. You know, it's like we're social species meant to connect authentically with each other.

We're wired for this.

We are so wired for this. And, like, so just just being in community with people and willing to take off the mask and to share it deeper. So that would be the one thing, and then the individual part would be the morning practice.

Brenda, just thank you so much for having me in your home, for sharing your life, for sharing your teacher, your sickness, and also this last question for you. Well, next to last, because I have mine.

Can.

What is the gift? We talked about the teacher. We talked about the sickness. Like, what's the gift? What's the gift from all this for you?

The gift, I guess, boiled down that was delivered, I guess, in the package of cancer and sickness for me is remembering and in some ways really getting to know who I really am. Like, the true, authentic me. You know, it's like, I think fundamentally learning to love myself and love my life like that was the gift. It's like it boils down to, like, healing. Boils down to that thriving, boils down to loving yourself and loving your life. And I think it was the, you know, sickness or cancer that really prompted me, threw me into this place of having to continue to dive deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into my heart. To like, oh, there I am. I'm actually this extraordinary divine creation. And I have this unique expression. And oh, I love to dance. And oh, I love this. And oh, what makes me happy and brings me joy and giving myself permission to do those things and creating incredible experiences and going back to that living life now was that antidote to dying, having never fully lived. And so that was the gift is, yeah, loving myself, finding myself.

And your unique path, I think so many people walk their own. And that path that you shared with us, I just know, I know, I trust that someone listening might be walking a path very close to that. And so my last question for you is around this intersection that we've explored. It's this. It's this physical, this emotional and the spiritual intelligence and with, with what you've gone through and like everything you've experienced in your life, how do you see wellness? What's your definition of wellness?

Wellness is this simply, simply state wellness is this return to wholeness, like healing means wholeness. And so, and it's like in that I describe that for me as feeling well in my soul. And that is, you know, what wellness, it incorporates, you know, harmony in all aspects of who I am, my physical, mental, emotional, you know, spiritual body. But it's ultimately being well in my soul.

I love your answer. Yeah, people want to reach out to you. Where can they do that? Where can people dig into your work, your book, your circles, your groups, everything you got going on? Where do they go?

Yeah, for now. So what I'd love to do is offer a free copy of my book, electronic copy of my book, to all of you that are listening. So to do that, you can go to www.sickofbeingsickbook.com and so if you go there, you can download a free copy. And if you just want to reach out to me, you can email me at Rise to Radiance. I love to hear rise to radiancemail.com I'd love to hear, you know, what you've got going, what your story is. You know, I do am offering some free discovery calls and just to hearing what you've got going on. So I'd love to, to hook up with you and chat. So if you're dealing with, you know, if you're a woman that's dealing with health challenges and struggle and really wanting to turn this around, ditch the diagnosis and to create a life that you really love, you know, that's what my that's where my heart is. That's where my passion is. So I'd love to. I'd love to chat with you.

Brenda Walding, live from Texas. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you so much. I love this conversation so much. So grateful.

Guys, we're gonna be talking about this so much more in the Wellness Force group. So we're gonna be posting links from Brenda and all the show notes are gonna be on the Wellness Force site and then this conversation continues. Wellnessforce.comgroup maybe we can actually do a fun Q and A. If we get some time in the audience, we could do a Q and A on the Facebook page. So guys, until I see you soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness. Hey my friend, thank you for hanging out and growing with me today. Everything you learned on this podcast starts your with morning practices. So from over 200 world class guests and counting, we've distilled the gems, the best of the best science backed practices down into a 21 minute morning system guaranteed to increase the positive flow in your day. Get this free and powerful 21 minute life changing system over@wellnessforce.com M21 if you enjoyed this episode, tap your phone, share it with someone you care about because that is how we all get back better together. Supporting the show is easy. Leave us a five star review right now from your phone. It helps us reach other smart and conscious people like you. Either tap your phone and hit the link in purple that says review this podcast or go to wellnessforce.com review. And this show doesn't stop here. We're continuing the discovering process in our private Facebook group. You can be a part of it. All you have to do is go to wellnessforce.com group and I'll welcome you at the door. Okay. Now you get to go out into your world and live your life well. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.