254 Tommy Baker: The Art of Surrender

Ultimately, emotions can be used in really two ways. They can be used to create or they can be used to destroy. And if we don't understand our emotions, this is why we so many people get lost and go the destructive route, maybe destructive habits, destroying their body, destroying relationships, etc, etc. There's always something in there that if we have the courage to dig deep enough, there's always something in there that's going to provide us to a door that we didn't see opening, an opportunity, some moment of clarity, or most importantly, out of all the things, what about unconditional love with ourselves, right? Are we, are we willing to face ourselves with these dark emotions and not judge ourselves, not feel guilty, not feel less than, and just be witness of them and then appreciate ourselves even with our flaws, even with our dark corners, all of that stuff.

That's Tommy Baker. And this is episode 254 of Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life well. In this episode we're talking with Tommy Baker, my friend, author and podcaster and the leader of the helm over at Resist Average Academy. He hosts the Resist Average Academy podcast and he wrote a book called the one percent Rule, how to fall in love with the process and achieve your wildest dreams. Now this concept of falling in love with the process, we hear personal development gurus kind of spout about this on.

Stage all the time.

Fall in love with the process. Don't be attached to the outcome. Make sure that you're not attaching yourself to the outcome. And Tommy and I are going to explore this today, this science and story behind really what he calls the art of surrender. This is creating your life by design, not default. Sometimes in lifestyle creation and in goal setting, the art form of surrender is completely forgotten. This is a perfect chance for you to take a deep breath with me. So right now, when you're in your car, keep your eyes open. If you need this, pull over to.

The side of the road.

Actually, a deep breath might set you free from the stress that's plaguing your physiology and your psychology today. So do this. Exhale all your air. Now inhale for five. Now hold right here for five. Feel your lungs stretch. This is where all the stillness in peace is. And as you exhale for five.

Hold.

At the bottom for five. That was a five count box breath. And this breath work here can set you free from stress. You can always go to it. It's always there for you, this breath break. You can learn more about your breathing and how breathing can unlock lower levels of stress and a higher threshold through for you to deal with stress. Over@wellnessforce.com M21 this is where you can get a free 7 day guided breathwork practice led by yours truly to you so that every single day you can start training your physiology. And it dovetails with our podcast today because Tommy believes the fastest way to change your behavior is actually to change your environment. We also talk about the Japanese philosophy of Kaizen, why it integrates in his work and why it relates to the 1% rule. We also talk about how Tommy balances both the alignment and the husk in his life and why he focuses on purpose, attention and action rather than just hustle. This guy actually gets up at like 4 and 5 in the morning. We also talk about how to get radically honest with yourself without judgment. That is the key. Without judgment. This radical honesty and acceptance is really what opens new doors in self discovery and in development and growth. This is why we're all here, right? We also learn strategies from Tommy that you can apply every single day so you can practice this art of surrender on a daily basis. If you're inspired by the podcast today, make sure you head to the show notes@wellnessforce.com 25 4. You can learn more about Tommy as well as Tommy was generous enough to give us three copies of his 1% rule book. All you have to do for this is on the day this podcast comes out. All you have to do to enter is leave us a five star review on iTunes. We'll get your email and we'll announce this seven days after the podcast comes out. So head to wellnessforce.com or simply tap the purple link on your iPhone or in your show notes right now, wherever you're listening and hit the one that says review this podcast. That'll take you right to itunes where you can leave a review. And this is a really cool moment for me, this art of surrender. I've spent the past 30 days in Thailand. Tomorrow I get on a plane to come back to the United States. And I'm so excited to share not only my breathwork practice with Soma, but really what Tommy and I explored today. This art form of surrender. Surrender does not mean giving up. Surrender really means giving in to the truth, that universal truth that none of us are in control. Control is an illusion. We can do our best to make sure we're structuring our love, our health, our wealth and our relationships in a way that we're always giving our best. But when it comes to white knuckling and control, the art form of surrender.

Is one of the most powerful tools.

That I cannot wait. And I'm thrilled for you to hear right now on Wellness Force with Tommy Baker.

My guest today is the founder of the Resist Average Academy and the host of the Resist Average Academy podcast. He's also the author of the 1% rule, which is a book we're doing a deep dive into today. He's a speaker, he's a coach to entrepreneurs, but he helps them live a life by design, not default. His zone of genius comes in helping people with big visions reverse engineer that so they can have success. But really, he admits he doesn't have it all figured out, but. But he does love the process. Tommy Baker, welcome to Wellness Force.

Josh, thank you so much for having me. So excited to be here today. And you did such an incredible job with the podcast. I know that anybody listening out there is the type of person that I wanna be associated with. So great work, man.

Thank you very much. And I feel the same way about you. You know, as I was telling you this before we recorded, I was like, no, I get to share this with our audience. I came across you. I was at Sprouts, I was in line, and I'm scrolling through my Instagram and there's this guy, Resist Average Academy. And I just clicked on the button and there you just finished a workout. You were sweaty, you were on fire. You're like at the top of a mountain with, like a sun in the background. And I just got this sense from you, like, this is not the average personal development or speaker. And I followed my intuition, I followed my heart. And I was like, the more I looked into your work, I started following you, I started understanding what you're all about. This, this 1% rule. Let's dig into that, man. Like, what exactly is the 1% rule?

100%, man. So I talk to so many people over the years and had so many conversations, and me personally, same thing. People who have big ambitions, big dreams, these hits of intuition, like you said, that they want to do something bigger and bolder, and they get inspired by a vision, and then they get stuck in the how and what I want to do. Because this happened to me when I was going through this. It started as self preservation. I wanted to create a system to release that pressure, because getting lost in the how does no one does no one good. And so I wanted to find a way to release that immense pressure. We already have so much pressure in our lives, already so overwhelmed. And what if we could create a system where today all we had to do to win the day, to move forward towards that vision, to start making it a reality, was move forward 1%. And if we did that long enough, then it was only a matter of time. Then you had this inner confidence, like we talked earlier, where you literally say, tell yourself it's only a matter of time. And when you do that, what unfolds and the doors that open along the way are just beautiful.

This is why I'm stoked to have this conversation with you. Because I feel like you operate when I look at your brand and I see what you're creating, creating, it's like one foot in intelligence of emotions and the other foot in physical and spiritual. Because this trifecta, this triangle of spiritual, physical and really emotional, this is, I believe, the crux of wellness. And so with Wellness Force, we're always exploring this, Tommy. Like, we want to know what are these high performers, and not only high performers, grounded, inspired leaders, really creating from a place of right. Because it's one thing we all have seen Gary Vee and we've seen these people. It's like hustle, hustle, hustle, no matter what. And that made me sick. This year I've shared this with the audience. I'd love for you to talk about the moment in the float tank. You know, you were in New York and you're in a float tank, and where were you in your life then? What happened after that? This is an interesting moment for you.

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I was, I was. I was living in Manhattan and also commuting to Connecticut, had a couple gyms, you know, had really grown these gyms and was deep in what I thought was my passion at the time. And it was for a while, but started to fade, at least in the vehicle of the passion. So I believe we have a purpose and then we have a vehicle of delivery for that purpose. And so my vehicle no longer was in perfect alignment. And so I would hear these whispers that there's something else that I have to do, there's somewhere else that I have to go. And one of the things that would come up over and over was this change of environment, but didn't make any sense. Specifically at that time, I had signed a five year lease, had 14 employees. I mean, we were. I was rooted and grounded, but I chose to listen to some of the voices and they were coming up persistent over and over again. And so I went inside, man. And one of the practices that I love doing to get clear on these messages is sensory deprivation, just called floating. And you're in this tank, you can't see anything, you can't smell anything, and nothing, right? And I just started to get this vision of coming out west and specifically to Arizona. And I didn't try to analyze it. I didn't try to ask myself why or stack logic or rationalization. I just let it be. And then six months later, I landed in Arizona and completely shifted every part of my life.

How did you let go of the gym and the staff and the lease? Like, I think this is what really blocks people is like, the how. Did you just trust the intuition and trust the message? Or did you get stuck in the how?

So when the what, which is the vision, and the why with the vision is strong enough, the how starts to reveal itself. And so I had no. I had no plan, I had no blueprint. I didn't know how I was going to get out of these leases. I didn't know. Well, I don't even know what my next iteration of my business would be. I didn't know anyone in Arizona. I'd only been there once. But this is. These are the things. And yes, it's like a more macro thing where I'm literally uprooting my whole life, but everybody in the audience has these micro hits every single day of things that we know we have to do. Conversations that we need to have, maybe a message we need to post. Maybe we're at Sprout scroll on Instagram and we come across someone that seems to be in alignment. And like, those are the moments where we know exactly what we do. And then what happens? Fear starts to take over. It starts to mask as rationalization and logic. It's not the right time. I don't know how to do it, et cetera, et cetera. And then the law of diminishing intent takes over. And what started as a powerful breakthrough is now gone months later. And I always say, don't miss your window, because within those windows, we have lives and opportunities and experiences that we can't currently imagine. So for me, it was letting go of the entire how and trusting. And so I did. I did. And here's the takeaway for the audience. When you get these moments, do one thing to cement them as real. Because in that flow tank, I remember it was 8pm at night. What am I going to do to make that vision real, right? Like, what can I actually do? But I could do one thing. I couldn't do much. I could do one thing. So that night, I grabbed my smartphone and I changed the background to this beautiful sunset of Arizona. So I made it that real. Because the next day, guess what? I'm gonna pick up my phone 50, 60 times and I'm gonna see it. And if I'm gonna fast forward because when I first, when I came to Arizona six months later, I got off the plane, I did my first hike, it was around sunset. I'm hiking down, man, feeling the endorphin rush. Just got, just got to this new place. And kid you not, man, I look up, what did I see? A purple hazed sunset with the cactus in exactly the right place. I literally grabbed the phone and I just start to bring it up to eye level and that the image that I had put there was the same exact thing that I was seeing tears.

Start coming down my eyes.

Wow. But that's the power of not getting lost in the how.

Yeah.

Because if I had started to think about how I'm going to do that didn't happen, it would have never. It would have been a fantasy. And what a tragedy because I wouldn't know what I had missed out on.

Now, did you meet your. Your current relationship in New York or is your current relationship a byproduct of you following your intuition out to Arizona?

Byproduct 100%, yes.

So that would have never happened.

No less.

You followed that signal that happened, by the way. I think it's so cool. It happened in a FL tank in the darkness of. You removed from the distractions, man. You know, Gay and Katie Hendricks call it weapons of mass distraction. We're in this world where everything's pulling us away all the time from what's really important. And that is who we actually are in our chest. Like, who were you then in that float tank compared to who you are now? What's that contrast?

It's really. It's hard to put into words. And I consider myself someone who can be decent with words. It's very hard to put into words, but it does feel like two different lives. And that's the best way that I can describe it. Just two completely different realities and exactly what you said. We have all the answers. And I know it sounds so cliche to say that. And people, it's hard to grasp, but we grasp it in the moments of silence and solitude and space. And I always say, go to your inspiration. For me, my inspiration has always been the outdoors. But anywhere where you feel a pull, there are the answers. If you create enough space, all of the answers will come up, just like you said. All of the distractions, all of the noise, all of the stimulus they just block the answers. But if we're able to dig deep, we can get them back.

Yeah, you're digging deep then. So were you the kind of person when you were running the gyms and everything that didn't have as much depth or spiritual exploration that you have now?

Yeah, I mean, I had started on the path, but I was very stuck in this go mentality and this New York City intensity. I felt that I felt myself morphing into my environment. Which is why I teach, you know, the fastest way to change your behavior for the positive or the negative is to change your environment. And like I told you, there was no amount of spiritual work that I could do in, in that environment that made me feel connected not only with the people around me.

Yeah.

But also with myself. And so I've always had friends who were, you know, five, 10, 15 years older. And just there's this general energy that just wasn't in alignment with me. Right. This, this energy back east, which was extremely competitive. And it was always kind of always looking behind your shoulder. And you know, some people love the energy there. So it's all about knowing who you are and what you need. But I saw myself going five years down the line and just being in a, in a really bad place if I stayed there.

Yeah. It's interesting because like the, it's almost the contrast of if we have the arrow that's pulled back really far, then we're gonna shoot a lot farther, but that pulling is uncomfortable. And so sometimes we'll sit in a space where. And this is talked about in many different metaphors, whether it's the hero's journey or you even talk about the Japanese philosophy of kaizen, you know, like everything is unfolding, everything truly is working out for us. But yet sometimes in those moments, Tommy, like, it doesn't feel that way in that moment for you, did it feel like things were working out for you and how did you trust that they actually would?

Yeah, and that's such a great word. And I always say, you know, faith and trust, they have to be cultivated. Right. And it's a choice that we have to make every single day. It's not just a one time deal. I had practiced the art of listening to my intuition at that point. Enough to know that the inner wisdom can never be wrong, even if the external circumstances don't necessarily seem like they worked. In other words, we, we can't connect the dots looking, looking forward. Right. We can only connect them looking back.

Yeah.

And so often, and you know, this is what I Teach. But often, if you listen to your intuition, you do something, you don't get a result that you wanted. Sometimes that in itself is the greatest thing to happen to you because a door opens that would have never been there prior. So it takes tremendous faith and tremendous trust. And I just knew it was going to work out. Going back to this inner confidence, I always told myself, if I create this radical shift and I give myself a shot, what's the worst that could happen? I have a great story to come back with now. Do I want to experience the quote, unquote failure that comes with that? No, of course not. But the downside is still an incredible story. And the upside is something that I can't imagine.

What is this Japanese philosophy, this kaizen? How does that relate to the 1%? Because I've seen you post a lot of stuff from anyone. Alan Watts, who I love. I listen to Alan Watts in the shower all the time. And Lao Tzu and these great masters that I think you and I both have a shared energy and a shared passion for. I had never heard of this Kaizen. What is that? How did you come up with that for the book?

Yeah, I love that. It's Japanese philosophy that really is about embodying daily continuous improvements. And it's just very much in line with the 1%. And if we do that, if we control what we can control, right. And just move forward just a little bit, just a little bit every single day, then we look back and the results are unimaginable. And you and I know this won't sell out seminars, it doesn't sell out big conference rooms, but. But this is what creates long term enduring results. And so that focus on the process, that focus on just releasing the pressure, being just a little bit better today, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, to me, that's everything. And you look back and the results that come from the compounding of that and the consistency with that are unimaginable.

I think it's easy for people to hear you and be like, this guy's got inspiration flowing through his veins. But it was not always like that. You actually talked about in your book. You said, I used to be a personal development program, Hopper. Can you tell us about that? Because it's so easy. I live here in Encinitas, and a lot of people get stuck in wanting to go to the next seminar without breathing and embodying the lessons. Where were you then? What does that mean to you, to be a personal development program, Hopper? Can you tell us that story?

Well, possibility is Addicting, right? Like setting big dreams and visions is. Feels amazing. It' sit's a dopamine rush. What happens to our brain? Brain chemistry, isis reallyit's really what I consider, like a high, right? And so what I found, and I got sucked into it because I remember being at an event in Houston, Texas, seven days. We would start at 7am and we would finish at 1am and it was nonstop. It was one of my first mentors. His name is Dr. John Demartini. Never seen a guy. He drank two glasses of water and, like, the strawberries, and he was good. And same energy in the morning. Same energy.

He's incredible. I've seen him before.

After seven days, I couldn't move. I was. I felt like I had the flu because it's just information and overload and remember being at lunch on the last day and we're talking, we're like, okay, what are we going to do with this? And the whole table was saying how they're going to the next event in a couple days. And then they got another one. And I'm like, oh, my God, I can't even breathe. Like, I don't even know what I'm going to do with this. Right? And so. But I started to fall into that same trap where it was the. It was the seeking of that high of, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna create a radical shift here. I'm gonna do this with my business, with my physicality. But then what happens after, right? And there's this. There's this missing link, and I was. That I started to become that person so I could say all of the things that I can do now, but they had no foundation, right? And I wasn't seeing the results that I knew mentally like, I could create. But there was a missing link. And that's where falling in love with the process is crucial. Because it doesn't matter how inspired you are with anything, with big, bold missions, businesses that you want to create the way that you want to feel physically, there are going to be so many days that you don't necessarily emotionally feel like doing it. And this is why I love your show, because you talk. You know, I always say all. All transformation is emotional. So whether you're looking to lose 10 pounds or, you know, make $10,000 in your business, you're gonna. You're gonna have that emotional battle that comes with getting uncomfortable and change. And that's. That was a big thing that was missing from these, from these programs or the insights that I didn't get. Was like, you know, I'd come home from the programs inspired, excited, and then I'd have. You know, I always say expansion requires contraction, so I'd be really expanded, and then I'd have this contraction period where I'd feel worse, and then I wouldn't really have anything to show for it after that. So in other words, I was relying to feel the dopamine hit to actually move forward. And what I realized was that it was reverse. That if you actually move forward today and you do some purposeful work today, even if it's small, you actually create this, this much more enduring feeling that it's not this crazy high of dopamine.

Yeah.

But it's much more rooted and powerful because you're actually make. You're actually moving towards your dreams. And nothing, nothing feels as good as progress, even just a little bit.

I love this because the sustainability aspect to development, I think, as I mentioned earlier, it's so easy, especially I worry sometimes, or I'm cautious to share anyone's stuff like Gary Vee's, because we have some kids that are like 18, 19 years old, and they get sucked into this hustle mentality. And don't get me wrong, like, hustling is a part of growth, yet it's not the entire thing. How have you balanced this in creating Resist Average Academy? Coming from this background where you're probably in the gym 10, 12 hours a day, you know, running, doing, doing the hustle, there was something inside of you that called you out west. And, and how has that unfolded for you now? In other words, how do you balance the alignment and the hustle?

100%, man. And I, I love it because I say I wake up at 4am But I don't hustle. So I believe if you're hustling, if you're, quote, unquote, hustling 16 hours a day, you got a big lack of focus, and you're probably spending a lot of time in distraction. And so, you know, for me, I love both sides of the spectrum. Meaning. And I don't even call it hustle, because hustle, just the word, produces stress, produces cortisol, and makes you feel if you're not doing it, you're missing out on something.

Can we please make 2019 the year of where hustle dies? Can we use another word instead of hustle? It's so exhausting.

100%. So my words are purposeful, intentional action. And so for me, the reason I say I wake up at 4am and I don't hustle is Because I believe when you're clear about your vision and you've reverse engineered how to get there and you're taking purposeful, intentional action along the way, it's actually quite peaceful. It's not, to me, it's not this intense friction. It's not that difficult. There's a simplicity, there's an ease. There's states of flow that you get to experience that are much more. Those are the states that we should be chasing. For me, my version of success does not look like 16 hours a day. And I don't believe that you need that to create anything special, even a thriving business. So for me, I operate on both ends of the spectrum. A lot of purposeful, focused, disciplined, structured, routine work, which may be called hustle to some people and look like hustle on the outside. And then big open spaces of white space, regeneration, reconnection, solitude, quiet nature, conversation, all of that stuff. Here's where most people miss out. They live in the middle, right? They live in the middle of all of that. So they don't have the purposeful, intentional action. So their dreams aren't coming to life fast enough. And they don't have the white space to get the breakthroughs, the clarity, the regeneration, the. All of the stuff that happens in that spot. And they're stuck in this middle ground. And to me, that's where dreams really go to die.

Oh, man, I'm feeling this in my chest right now. I'll just share quickly because this conversation is about spotlighting you. However, my story is a small mirror of what you're talking about, because I can remember being at. I was a trainer for 10 years in like 10,000 sessions with clients. And plus, plus, it was awesome, but it was also like, I knew it was done and I got to this place where I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I almost was in this space where David Dede describes. I was in between my layers of purpose and I felt stuck. I felt so just trapped. And I literally felt it, like, almost like there was an elephant standing on my chest. And I just took some time to really understand, like, what does this next level look like for me? And I really started. That's actually when I started to lean into emotional intelligence. I started to lean into what it is to feel my feelings. How has that unfolded for you? Because as men in our society, whether it's business or relationships or health, feeling, the feeling is where all the juice and the directions exist. It's not just in the doing. I'm curious for you as a Man, a man in relationship and a man with a business. How do you go to the feeling and let that guide you 100%?

And the feeling is everything. And early on, I used to buy into this kind of like positive psychology spin, right? And I used to feel less than if I wasn't feeling amazing all the time. And then I discovered the truth that we're here having a human experience. And the human experience of emotion is the entire spectrum. And I stopped labeling if I felt sad, fearful, depressive, like qualities or whatever lower states, I did exactly what you said. Instead of running away from them, instead of distracting myself through sports, media, gossip, tv, whatever, it may be working more, right? I actually allowed myself, honored myself enough to feel those things, because within those, there are gifts, there are breakthroughs, there are moments of clarity. Like Joseph Campbell says, the cave you fear holds the treasure you seek, right? And so I started to do the work, the inner work, which we discussed early on, with the gratitude of just allowing those feelings to, you know, be. Be part of my experience and feeling them through and then using them as leverage. Because I believe ultimately emotions can be used in really two ways. They can be used to create or they can be used to destroy. And if we don't understand our emotions right, this is why we, so many people get lost and go the destructive route and destruct maybe destructive habits, destroying their body, destroying relationships, et cetera, et cetera. And so that's been a beautiful journey of just getting to know oneself, being okay with these quote unquote negative emotions, which really aren't negative emotions. There's always something in there that if we have the courage to dig deep enough, there's always something in there that's going to provide us to a door that we didn't see opening, an opportunity, some moment of clarity, or most importantly, out of all the things, we start to build this. A lot of people talk unconditional love. What about unconditional love with ourselves? Are we willing to face ourselves with these dark emotions and not judge ourselves, not feel guilty, not feel less than, and just be witness of them and then appreciate ourselves, even with our flaws, even with our dark corners, all of that stuff?

Yes. And that is like, at the depth of our conversation, man, because so many times we've talked about mirror work. It's in psychology where someone will have a depressed image of their body and they won't be happy with, maybe they're overweight or they don't like their hair, their nose, whatever it is.

This podcast is brought to you by Organifi Tommy and I are talking so much today about the art form of surrender and these strategies on how to set up your environment to win. Well, guess what? If your environment is stacked with chips and cookies and cakes and all these things that are going to defeat the monkey mind, you are not going to succeed. And that is the ultimate brutal truth, isn't it? But the other side of the coin is that the universal truth we all share is if our environment is stacked in our favor, we have healthy micronutrients, we have healthy foods in our work, in our home space, in our our car, we're going to be so much more likely to succeed. You can do this right now, today, for actually less than a few bucks a day, less than what you might spend on a frappuccino with heavy foam at Starbucks. You can do this through Organifi, the Red Green gold. It's a 24 hour system. This is going to give your micronutrients delivery deep into the mitochondria, the AKA powerhouse of our cell. This is where we get all of our energy. So if you've been feeling like you need more energy, this is a unique opportunity for you. Test drive organifi over@organifi.com wellnessforce if you decide to pick up a multiple recurring order, you're going to save the most money and you get 20% off the big 20 discount. @Organifi.com WellnessForce Just use code WellnessForce at checkout over at Organifi.com WellnessForce to get more energy so you can show up for the people and the things that you actually care about instead of just pounding coffee that makes you more tired and doesn't make you sleep very well either. Let's get back to Tommy and talk about this art form of stacking the environment for you to win in your favor and the art form of surrender.

This fear response that elicits when the internal narrative goes to self deprecation and I'm not good enough and things like this. Have you dealt with entrepreneurs specifically that in a way, it's almost the hatred of themselves is what drives their success in business. And then how do they transcend that? You know what I mean?

I mean, you know, achievement, achievement often is comes from, from feeling some type of lack. Right. And so I deal with this all the time. I've dealt with entrepreneurs who were not only building massive businesses but you know, doing Ironmans and stuff like that. And exactly what you talked about, like they were fueled by something that was quite uncomfortable and quite dark. Right. And so to me, that's not a long term prescription of sustainability, but also just at the end of the day, I mean, we all just want to feel inner peace too. We want to feel peace and freedom, right? And so that model, I believe, has a shelf life. And so what we do in that circumstance is really start to unpack what's going on underneath and find ways to be pulled by something that doesn't always have to rely from that dark place that we can actually go after something already feeling whole, not trying to get something externally to patch something up that we feel like we're missing. And then when we get to that place, our external markers of success, they no longer own us, they're not who we are, they're just a representation of the value that we're creating inside. Because otherwise what happens, it's never, never enough. And each level, we just feel a little bit more hollow and disappointed because we thought that level was going to patch that up. So I definitely do that. And it's, it's a dance.

Understanding that what has been the thread of victory or what's a way that. And obviously you can't share names of people you've worked with, but when you saw someone who was operating in that kind of self hatred space, what did that look like for them to transcend so that the business was more sustainable and it was coming from a place of faith.

So specifically with the, with the men that I worked with or continue to work with. Step one is just getting honest. Like how simple does that sound when we talk about it? But how rare is that, especially for men, just getting honest, going back to how we feel and we bottle these things up and we use them as fuel to drive our ambition. But when was the last time we had a real conversation about how we're feeling on our paths? What I noticed is that achievement wasn't correlated with fulfillment. Right. And so to me that's such a broken model. Right? Especially because everybody's telling you that you should be feeling amazing because you're achieving all of these things, yet deep down you, you feel like something is empty and missing. So it was, it's always about the inner work, right? And just starting super simple. Like being able to express in a conversation, in a shared space that is built on trust, what we're really feeling. And even just that expression, it's like, oh, a weight vest just went off our shoulders because we were able to express that.

Man, the fitness industry, this is very prevalent where myself, I lost 80 pounds and that's why I became a Trainer. And I think a lot of people go through the darkness in order to be somewhat of a light worker that shines light on other people and that inner exploration of the darkness. Like you said, maybe the first step for everyone, man, woman, whoever you are, is taking a breath and just being honest. It's so fascinating to me how sometimes the honesty is the most simple tool yet. It's not that easy. How do you see that unfolding with people in health specifically? Like, you're a very big health proponent. So how does one trust if they don't have the body that they want? Like, Maybe they're carrying 50 pounds of energy that their body doesn't feel safe to let go of? How do they walk that route when it comes to telling the truth?

It's crazy because in. In my personal coaching and programs, we spend so much time on taking inventory and telling the truth. And people are always like, tommy, when are we going to get to the actual where we're headed? And I said, until we can get so radically honest that there's nothing off the table. Because so often we're setting these goals in the future and we're painting these visions, and again, they feel great. But we don't have no honesty in terms of where we are today. So how can we go somewhere without the foundation of where we are today? So, for example, in terms of the health. Yeah. It's like it's being willing and honest to look at our current circumstance and dig deep into those feelings of what that's creating for us on a daily micro basis. Right. About how we pass the mirror and we wash our hands. We can't even hold eye contact for a moment with us because we feel we hate what we see. Right. And how does that affect us in relationship? How does that affect us in business? How does it affect us with our confidence? Right. And so getting brutally honest, and it's not about judgment at all. That's the great thing. It's actually, to me, radical. Honesty is just a form of appreciation because if we're willing to look in the mirror, figuratively, metaphorically, then that's when we can create transformation. And so often we avoid it. Right? We avoid looking at it. And we're avoiding the very thing that has the highest potential for us to actually change our behavior. Right. Even though it's uncomfortable and it can be painful, that is. And that's why so many, so many breakthroughs come during breakdowns.

Yeah, Right.

Because that's when our identity is shifted. Right. And that's when we feel such a Band Aid ripped open on our lives that we're actually willing to take an honest look, and that's when change happens. Now, for me, I don't believe that waiting for a breakdown is a great idea for transformation, although often it can happen. But there's different models to change, and getting honest is part of all of them.

And I think why honesty feels so scary sometimes is because we have this innate wiring. You know, we're half beast, half spirit. So physiology is like, wait a minute. If I go to the fear, I might die. But there's rational and then there's irrational fear. One of them protects us because back in the day when we were in tribes, if we failed, if we showed that we didn't have value in front of a tribe, well, then we wouldn't mate. So that took us to a place where it was a big deal to fail in front of the tribe. But guess what? What Tommy's saying and what I'm really feeling from your message right now, man, is expressing ourselves and just getting to the basement of truth quickly and finding out what's really there. That's the beginning of all transformation. And we don't have to wait like you're saying. We don't have to wait for the ultimate breakdowns, although breakdowns occur. Like, I'd love for you, if you're willing, man, to share with us like. Like what's been one of your biggest breakdowns that actually allowed you to break through.

So the float tank was when the. When the vision was. When the first seat of the vision was planted. But it was a couple weeks later. It was New Year's Eve in New York, and I'm at this dinner table, and it was like. It was one of those moments when you're physically there, but mentally you're somewhere else. Dude, I just needed some space, right? So I was dealing with all of these things, and I don't even know if I excused myself, and I just start walking, walking, walking, walking. And I just get to this empty football field, and this. This kind of primal part of me took over. I started doing some sprints because my physicality has always been a way to release some of the tension that's. That's in my body. And then I lost it, man. And then I had just. Just this. This huge emotional breakdown of. Similar to what you said, where the purpose that I thought was my purpose was no longer. You know, it's very easy to admit when things. When externally it's obvious things aren't working. You have a job that everybody knows. You don't, like. You have all this stuff, but when you've said, this is what you wanted, that honesty is even harder because they're like, dude, this is the path that you've been on. But that breakdown, that specific moment, allowed me to get radically honest with myself about where I was, how I hated my environment, and just even that word, right? Because usually I would have said. In that time, I would have said, oh, it's, you know, I don't love my environment, but, you know, it's okay, right? And so we kind of. With our language, we diminish the intensity of the truth. And so I got radically honest, and that was a breakdown. And, you know, at that point, I was a guy that, you know, I had a certain operating system. You know, I would wake up with a certain energy and intention. And for the next three or four weeks, I had none of that zero drive, zero momentum, zero motivation. Didn't want to do any of the stuff that I love doing, and I just had to sit with all of this stuff. And so a year and a half ago, I had another breakdown. This is now I'm in Arizona. This was a health breakdown. I got this thing called valley fever. I got double pneumonia. I had no idea what it was. It's very. It's not diagnosed. It's a regional disease. And I couldn't get out of bed, right? I couldn't get out of bed. Literally couldn't get out of bed. Couldn't figure it out. I was getting these conflicting opinions, and nothing was working. Nothing was working. And I saw a specialist, and she said, you know what? I've had. You seem pretty. You seem like a healthy guy, but I've had Navy SEALs go through this and then never came back from it. So we'll see how you do. And, dude, they just sent me into, like.

What do you mean?

Like, did you feel in that moment that you were gonna die or something?

Not die, but just that I would never get my. So what it does is intense levels of fatigue. So for me, I was like, well, my whole life is built around the ability to produce energy. Energy for my podcast, energy my relationship, energy for my clients, energy for the people I love, energy to experience life. So it did feel like a death. And it was one of the elevated. One of the 1% of diseases that gets. Starts to get really bad. So I went into the spiral, right? But now, looking back, it's exactly what I needed at a time. Going back to what we talked about. Hustle. The writing was on the wall. Now I Can't put. I can't say that my inputs led to this output, but I just wanted to give a more. A more updated example of a breakdown and how I was able to navigate that, because the lesson that I got from that was that for so long, I put my identity around physicality and even just, like, energy. And the greatest gift that I got from that was the power of surrender. Because what got me to that place was my intensity. And I remember when I first got diagnosed with that thing, I said, I'm going to be the fastest person to ever recover from this, ever. Like, grab my ego. Talking again.

The very thing that got you there is telling you how it's going to get you out. It's like, hold on.

Exactly, exactly. And it wasn't until that I said, there's a lesson in here. It's going to be really painful, but it's out of my control. And then, honestly, the moment that I energetically surrendered, because surrendered is so. It's just a feeling. I always open my palms when I say the word, because that's how it feels. The recovery was swift, but it took getting to that place. So those are a couple breakdowns that have happened.

Yeah.

And I believe we have all types of breakdowns. We have micro breakdowns that happen from a week to week, and then we have bigger ones. And really all of those are just chances to build the reps. So when the bigger ones come, we can handle those as best we can. With entrepreneurs, emotions are the number one thing that gets in the way from them of growing their business. So I teach them and I help them to, hey, you know, maybe this circumstance today takes you five minutes to get over, whereas six months ago it took you two days of production to get over. Yeah, that is huge growth. And so it's not a matter of having breakdowns, is how can we navigate, how can we learn from them, and how can we sharpen our skill set and mindset around them?

Can you speak to somebody right now who's listening and they're feeling, like, a lack of faith. You know, maybe they're in a place in their life where their breath is shallow, they're not trusting, they're in a major breakdown. Could be a lot of things. Right. But, you know, can you speak to them in that place where they might be now in a lack of breath and in a lack of faith? Like, where does that process begin to step out and step up?

So I would tell you to take a moment and disconnect. And it might happen after this podcast, but to take a moment for yourself and whatever that looks and feels like, but to create a container where you can actually be with yourself and allow yourself to really feel what you're feeling and spend time in that place. And it's going to be uncomfortable, but the more that you can allow yourself to go to that place and spend time in that place, you're going to get an answer and you're going to get a hit. You're going to get a poll that's going to tell, that's going to give you some wisdom on how you're going to get out of this and how there's going to be a light at the end of the tunnel. And I know it sounds like something you might have heard before, but right now, this. This exact moment that you're in, you're literally writing the story that you're going to be telling, and there's somebody out.

There.

That'S going to have to hear the story. And so if you can harness the faith and trust for yourself, there's going to be people impacted by your ability to have the courage to do so.

That was so great, man. And I'm feeling that because my definition of faith has transformed and changed a lot since I was young. Early in my life, I was angry at God. I was angry that a God couldn't heal my mom. I was angry about a lot of things. And then I realized it's my anger, it's my actual anger about God not doing something that I wanted God to do that allowed me to disconnect from spirit from God, from source. How would you define faith? Like, what does faith actually mean to you when you think about faith?

Yeah, faith is a. It's an unmistakable trust that we have with ourselves. It's really. This is why Emerson is one of my favorite writers, because he speaks to the soul, specifically his essay Self Reliance. But faith is having an unmistakable unconditional trust in ourselves. That's all it is. And I believe we all have it deep within. It's just like we've spoken on the podcast. We have so many layers and so much evidence, and we have stacked so much evidence of moments where we feel like we didn't follow through. We feel like we shortchanged something. We feel like we weren't able to trust ourselves. And that's what we're focusing on, and that's what we're building our case on. So that's how I define faith. It just. It's unmistakable, it's undeniable, and it really is just going back to Surrender, it is that energy. It's like it's allowing that space. And I always open my palms when I say surrender because it's an energy of just allowing. And for the person that I just spoke to, surrender is your pathway to the transformation you're looking for.

This is what I've loved about our conversation, is we've gone into some different cul de sacs of awareness and intelligence. But this one point where we're at right now, where we really talk about the intelligence, the training, the sharpening of the sword of palms, open surrendering. I mean, man, in this world where there's incessant activity and calendars and notifications, that skill set that you're talking about, of surrendering, it's going to be so challenging for someone to even begin to do that. I almost feel like there could be like systematic desensitization that Peterson talks about. Right. It's like if you're scared of surrendering, just do one tiny thing that'll allow you to surrender a little bit. How do you see surrendering as a skill set unfolding in your practice?

It can certainly be challenging, it can certainly be incredibly difficult. But what if it were easy? What if it were just a matter of dissolving what's been in the way? Because in my experience, that's exactly what it is now. It's simple and it's easy. We just make it so hard because we create so much friction. And the opposite of surrender is what? Rigidness and holding on so tight and every muscle in our body's holding on, but the moment that we actually let go and open up, it's so beautiful and so simple. But on the skill set of surrender, it is something that like anything, has to be practiced. And the great thing about any of these practices is that we have a 24 hour, seven day a week school that we get to practice this with. And so maybe it is a micro moment of surrender. Right. I experience this in business often where, you know, I have to let go because part of a. Part of creating a powerful vision, you can't be too rigid with it. Because if you're too rigid with the timing that I am today, the Josh that you are today who sets a vision is setting that vision based on who we are today. And if we stay so rigid with that vision, then in six months from now, the person who has a deeper perspective, who has a better skill set, all of that stuff, if we stay so rigid, we might miss an ulterior version of that vision that's ten times more Powerful because we weren't willing to surrender. So it's a daily practice. And for me, in the world of entrepreneurship, you know, I surrender many times when, you know, I set income goals or business goals. Yeah, I plan. But part of that plan is, guess what? Surrender. And an unexpected. It just happened the other day. I had somebody who's going to come to a one day intensive. It has a certain ticket price. They decided not to at the last second. That, that same day, just by letting go and not being so forceful, not being so rigid, not allowing that to stress me out. I had an email about a speaking engagement for the same exact ticket price. Now is that just a random occurrence? In my belief system, it's not. But that's practicing surrender on a daily basis.

So this surrendering practice, this leads to loa Law of Attraction. We've had many people on the show talk about Law of Attraction, but I'm curious for you. There is this embodiment, as we talked about, of intelligence, like the gathering, the application, the embodiment in this application and embodiment of the law of Attraction. I mean, to me, when I hear you say that you let go of something without trying to white knuckle it. And something else came back. It reminds me of when Bob Proctor talks about, you know, I take from abundance and abundance is still there. Yes. So. So do you believe on a. Maybe you could explain to us the biology of the law of Attraction and maybe the energetics of the Law of Attraction for you personally?

Something I studied for a while now, obviously with demartini, I got deep into people like Joe Dispenza and whatnot. To me, it's really, it's. It's obviously it's, it's all, it's. It's all about energy and without getting. Or maybe we will, but we can go there, man.

We could totally go to the woo.

So basically, the way I see it is the following, man. There's a version. There's a. There's a version of myself who's 40 pounds overweight, more weight than I have right now, who's in the dumps financially and on his third divorce, and he lives in New York City. Like, I believe there's a. There's a vert. There's a potential version of that. There's also the version of who I am today. Right. And so. And then there's another version of where I believe my heart is calling me. So to me that at any given moment there are all these different realities that we could step into. So where I See, Law of attraction coming into is Law of Attraction is all that energetic. All the energetic. All of the thinking, all of the belief, all of the feeling of the emotion of what it's going to feel like to get that, to be there, to be that person, all of that stuff. And then if we combine that with purposeful action. To me, the purposeful action is just the physical embodiment of the energy that we've created and we're just creating. I like to think of it like these train tracks. Right. And there's all these train tracks all around us, like millions of train tracks at any moment. And so, based on the work that we've done energetically, which is the foundation, but then stepping out into the reality that we live in, because we do live in this. In this reality, then we start to get on different train tracks, and we start to manifest what we energetically created by putting ourselves out there. And it's a tightrope, and it's a dance, and sometimes there's more of the energy and more of the action and everything in between. But that's the way that I see it, and where sometimes people get lost or can get lost, is that they spend too much time on one of those spectrums, just like we said earlier. Too much time and force and rigidness and hustle.

Yes.

Or we've met these people. I know I have so much time in the energetics, and they're not in the place where they necessarily want to be, and they might be feeling amazing, but they're not creating the external results that they want to create. So I believe it's a dance and a balance between those two.

Do you think the law of Attraction is almost like an antenna or a beacon that what we send out comes back?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

From a scientific perspective, or from just your own belief system?

Yeah, more for my own belief system. Although, like, for example, Dr. Joe Dispenza's work, I love. Because it's very rooted in science as well, and I believe there's so much science coming out, which is great. It's great news that we're able to, because I'm a total nerd with that stuff, but so are we.

We're all nerds listening, aren't we? I mean, we all like this.

Yeah, exactly. So I believe there's an energetic component, and then we do live in this physical reality, and I believe that there are ways that we bring that into our. That's the thing with doors opening. We can have all of these energetic intentions, but there are doors out there. That we just can't see, and we won't be able to see until we start doing some things to bring that to life.

Something just clicked for me, you know, reading the book, the one percent rule, how to fall in love with the process and achieve your wildest dreams. The process is surrendering to the process in a way. Right. I mean, something just clicked for me from, like, scanning the book and having this conversation with you. Trusting the process is part of surrendering and loving the process. If someone's in a moment right now and they're like, I kind of get what Tommy's saying, but I'm not exactly sure where to go. Would they begin with the book? And then what else can they have to support them in conjunction with the book?

And the book is just a great, great primer on that, on that mindset. Because just like you, I've interviewed hundreds of people, and I go so deep into their stories because they all have moments where they were. They were really challenged and really brought down, and they had to trust the process. Otherwise, there's no chance their vision comes to life.

Yeah.

And so that would be a great place to start. And obviously, if you love podcasts, resist average academy talk about a lot of the same stuff that you do. And we're all about this long term, enduring transformation. I had a marketing consultant, I'll tell you this, Had a marketing consultant recently. Tell me, Tommy, your message is too much, man. You got to tone this down. You're missing out on revenue. People want things that are not as deep as what you're doing. They want the surface area, et cetera, et cetera. And I said, man, I appreciate your advice, but that's not who I am. So, yeah, yeah, I'm here to connect with people like you who are willing to go down, down vertically, because that's where all the answers are.

And the further I go down to explore what's actually there, I'm not looking for something that's not there. I'm just open to exploring what is there that allows me to have the exact reciprocal of going up. If I pull the bow and arrow back farther, the arrow shoots farther. I mean, yeah, like, this is a metaphor that you are living. This is why I'm so stoked to talk to you. And I have this couple last questions for you, too, because you've done an incredible job articulating what you're about, like, who you are, what you stand for. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share with us something that you don't Normally share, you know, like something emotionally intelligent wise that you're currently leaning into. In other words, what's a current edge of fear for you or a current peace that you're leaning into right now in your life or business?

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, you know, it's, it's, it is. So it's, it's very, it's really relevant because I'm coming off one of like such an incredible year in 2018, man, I published a book. I got a book deal for another one, all of this stuff. And so, so I always say this. So if, if here's, here's the takeaway. If you're not emotionally tuned in, if you haven't put in the emotional reps, failure and success can crumble you equally. And people don't get this. They're like, how could success crumble me? But I always lean on the story of Elizabeth Gilbert, who wrote this book, Eat Pray Love, and it just blew up and 12 million copies. And then she was crushed. And so for me, because so many great things have happened, I'm not just saying that because my ego. I'm saying it because I'm truly energetically proud of what I've created. There's been emotional wrestling with that, Emotional wrestling with, okay, this thing was something that I've wanted to do for this amount of years, and I did it. And then after that, there's a period of like, okay, there's an emotional space that's created. And so specifically for me, November, this month of November. And the winter's always a great reflection time, dude. It's been highly emotional and I don't exactly. I was sitting at a restaurant with my fiance the other day and I literally just start crying, man. And she's like, she's like, what's going on? And I was like, right now, I don't know, and I can't tell you, but I'm gonna spend some time, right? And so I've had one of those months that it's like, it's much more emotional than usual. And guess what? That's totally beautiful. And right now I don't even have the answers to share with what that may be. And sometimes we won't have the answers to logically analyze things, but I've been going through that and it's been an emotional month. And guess what? That's. To me, that's beautiful because an emotional month or a month that's full of achievement or anything in between, hey, dude, that's the human experience, which is pretty Cool.

I like you, man. I like the way your brain works. I like what you've said today on the show. I know that people have taken many deep, deep breaths. I trust that you've taken deep breaths listening to Tommy and myself. Tommy, I got this last question for you. And with all the exploration that you've done and what's just the truth that you just poured on us right now, like, how do you see wellness? What is your definition of wellness? How do you see wellness in your life?

So I see wellness as the convergence of physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energy, working in unison to provide levels of fulfillment and then stepping out into the world and providing value through that fulfillment. And when we can put all those ingredients together, because if you're missing one of those, you might as well be missing. All that, to me, is the ultimate definition of wellness. And what you're doing with the podcast, helping so many people get to that place and ask the tough questions and, you know, get to a place where physically they're on fire, but emotionally they're on fire and they're feeling confident. Dude, like, the impact. The impact. The ripple effect of that is endless.

I know the men and the women listening are feeling the energy, because I'm feeling it, too, in my throat and my chest and my solar plexus. And I'm visualizing what someone can do right now when they put down this phone. Before we say goodbye, can you speak to them? Can you speak to them about this resisting average concept? Before we say goodbye, the one thing.

That you can do is to release. Release what's been up to this point, I always start with deletion, with. With anything that I do and any type of advice. So release what's happened in the last three years, in the last three months, maybe in the last three days, and just wipe that slate clean. And anything that you feel is negative. That's not who you are, and anything that you feel is positive. Well, we're gonna start. We're gonna start fresh, and you have a blank canvas to start from. And so often we get caught in yesterday's patterns and yesterday's routines and yesterday's stories, and that's not. That's not who they are. For me and you, Josh, we could have had this conversation last week or the week before, and guess what? You and I, we're not the same exact person as the week before. We might have a lot of similarities, but we're not. And so for somebody out there understand that that that's your leverage point that you can create from a blank canvas and it's up to you to decide exactly what's going to go in there.

Tommy Baker, thank you for coming on the show, man. Just a deep breath honoring what you're creating. Not in just development of the human, but in wellness. You know, there's a clear feedback signal between personal development and wellness. In my opinion, they're on the same track as you as you talked about with your metaphor. So just honoring the work you do, man, this explosion of energy that people feel from you, but also your heart. I think we all really felt your heart today. So thanks for coming on the show.

Means the world, man. And I'm here to support your mission as long as I can, man. Thank you.

Hey my friend, thank you for hanging out and growing with me today. Everything you learned on this podcast starts with your morning practices. So from over 200 world class guests and counting, we've distilled the gems, the best of the best science backed practices down into a 21 minute morning system guaranteed to increase the positive flow in your day.

Get this free and powerful 20 minute.

21 minute life changing system over@wellnessforce.com M21 if you enjoyed this episode, tap your phone, share it with someone you care about. Because that is how we all get better together. Supporting the show is easy. Leave us a five star review right now from your phone. It helps us reach other smart and conscious people like you. Either tap your phone and hit the link in purple that says review this podcast or go to wellnessforce.com review. And this show doesn't stop here. We're continuing the discovering process in our private Facebook group.

You can be a part of it.

All you have to do is go to wellnessforce.com group and I'll welcome you at the door. Okay? Now you get to go out into your world and live your life well. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.

Sam.