256 Dr. Kirk Parsley & Krisstina Wise: Navigating Transitions In Relationships, Health, and Wealth

I've been able to grow so much faster since being in a relationship with her. It's because I can talk things through with her. And we do have the same appreciation for language and we have very similar backgrounds. We can understand each other in a way that neither of us has ever been understood before.

Life is about love. We're pursuing money. There's all this just craziness about the health industry right now and all the hacking and the gaming gimmetry and the gadgetry and the technology and all the conversations around business and entrepreneurialism is just so extreme. And then when we come together, realize like, you know, this whole thing, it's the game of love is the game of life and it's love or fear. And the best way to face our fears is a great relationship.

That's Dr. Curt Parsley and Christina Wise. And this is episode 256 of Wellness Force Radio where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life well. In this episode we get to drop deep together live from Austin, Texas, the Lone Star State, where I got the pleasure of sitting with Dr. Kirk Parsley and Christina Wise in their beautiful home overlooking multicolored red and orange and rich green leaves on these trees in a valley. I'm going to post a photo about this on Social One of the most scenic parts is in all of Texas I've ever seen. But this conversation was just as special to me as the View. I've been both thrilled and also hesitant to release this podcast at the same time. It's a big growth edge for me. I'll tell you why in just a moment. But I have a question for you. When you hear this word money, this five letter word that kind of feels like a swear word to some people energetically, where do you go when you hear the word money? Where does your mind go? Do you feel it in your body somewhere? Maybe tension in your chest or stomach? What comes up for you? Take a deep breath and feel into that for just a moment. What does money mean in your life? And let's be real, if money's a stressor, then this is the perfect time to save money on the micronutrients you put into your body. As I mentioned last week, I've been recovering from the trip from Thailand, so I've been doubling down on the organifi green every single day. Cause I've just been feeling like I wanna support my immune system more and I'm doing this without the use of caffeine. I'm getting energy from deep down in the mitochondrial the powerhouse of my cel. If you've been feeling more tired than lately, give Organifi a test drive. This Ashwagandha Superfood infused organic powder that'll give you energy all day long. You can get it through our show, our exclusive Wellness Warrior tribe discount over@organifi.com WellnessForce. You just use code WellnessForce and you get 20% off 2,0 of the green and the red and the gold. Oh, and by the way, I think they have a chocolate coming out that is on the site now which I haven't even tried yet. And that is also in infused with all these adaptogens that'll get down to the energy spots in your body where it's needed most. Just go to Organifi.com WellnessForce and use code WellnessForce to get 20% off the entire order so you can save some money. And whatever your beliefs are about money, it's absolutely no surprise that without money it is truly impossible. Or at least in this current industrialized society, unless you're in like the tundra in Russia somewhere and you're self sustaining, it's almost impossible to have abundant health and to have abundance in relationships. So I'm not saying that money is the root of everything, but it is hard to grow roots if you don't have land. And land cost money. So with this analogy of financial wealth and roots, we're talking about this today, this bombshell conversation about navigating changes in our wealth. What happens when things go wrong from a financial perspective. We're learning about these changes from two seasoned pros who over the past couple years, between their partnerships, has gone through very unique and very challenging situations, especially.

When you look at the space of.

Both of them being more in the public spotlight of health and wellness and personal development fields. And what I love most about this conversation with Kirk and Christina is that they got to the basement of truth about how to navigate these challenges very quickly and the dark nights of our soul that they talk about so openly and so authentically. These are the ways that all of us can show up if we're willing to take the inventory. And I know we've talked about the emotional inventory in the show before, but in this podcast we go one step deeper with these two dynamic and highly emotionally intelligent humans. We talk about some of the practical and also polarizing. This episode may rub people the wrong way and honestly, I feel like that's a good thing. We all deserve to have our thoughts about what's, quote, normal and what we're supposed to do. Challenged. And Kirk and Christina are gonna give us that gift of challenge today because they both did not come from this silver spoon perfect Norman Rockwell childhood.

In fact, we talk about the childhood.

In printing and the creation of new neurological connections they've done through the power of plant, medic and state change.

We also talk about the challenges and.

The raw truth they both have come to face to face with being in the public spotlight, leaving their significant others right there in the media to come together to lead a new thought movement around what they call Wealthy Wealthy. This is a new partnership and an exclusive mastermind that focuses on the three most important things that I don't know about you, but I love abundance in all three of these things and that is love, health and wealth. You can join Christina and Kirk live in just a couple weeks in person. Actually, February 8th and 9th. If you're a business owner or maybe you're just in a spot in your life where you're unhappy with your health or you're single and you're opening to relationship, you get to go to Austin.

February 8th and 9th.

Sign up for this at wellnessforce.com 256. You can see a video from Kirk and Christina and also they were generous enough to give you $100 off. A hundred bucks off the already very low and very valuably priced Mastermind weekend in Austin. Make sure you go and watch the video to sign up for the Wealthy Wealthy event live in austin@wellnessforce.com 256 and lastly, as you listen to this podcast, I wanna make sure that you're present, that you're breathing. This is gonna be a roller coaster. We talked about a lot of exciting things. We also went to some very dark nights of the soul places. But I wanna ask for your understanding because this is the first show that I really was nervous about putting out, like truly nervous because out of over 250 episodes we've published, the audio on this one became corrupted and I was flying home from Austin and I was listening to it and my heart sunk. We worked with Buzzy from Epicast to fix this audio to make it sound almost like you can't even tell. But just be aware in the first half of the show there is a little bit of static. Not to the point where it's gonna distract you from the show, but just know it does get better. Thank you for your understanding. This is definitely a growth edge for me to just relax and not be perfect. So let's learn about this. Let's learn about navigating the changes in health, wealth and relationships and live from Austin, Texas, with Dr. Kirk Parsley and Christina Wise.

Guys, thanks so much for having me in your house. Josh Trent with Wellness Force. I'm here live at this beautiful home of Christina Wise, Dr. Kirk Parsley. You guys, thanks for being on the show.

Our pleasure.

We're talking about this navigation today. It's funny. You navigated here to Austin. You were born in Katy, Texas. Christina, we're going to learn about you, too. I see this navigation of in my own life, money and health and. And relationships. This. I mean, I know you like to sail as well. It's almost like the storm and the sea does not always make us go exactly where we think we're gonna go. And I think that's a context for this conversation because both of you have had such unique stories that have led you to this moment. Both your work in personal development and plant medicine and money consciousness and sleep with Navy Special warfare. Like, we have a lot to talk about. For a starting off point, though, let's discover this first. You guys have this event. It's called Wealthy Wealthy. I think this might be a good place for us to start. Like, let's go to where you are now. What exactly is this event, Christina? Like, how did this come through for you?

Well, the idea of wealthy wealthy came from my background. I started. I actually grew up poor and grew up on food stamps and grew up in a very impoverished and dysfunctional upbringing, to say the least. So but I was always very entrepreneurial at heart from a young age. But I had to make money if I was going to eat. And my parents were pretty much absent parents. And so I had a little brother and I had to figure out ways to make money so that we could. I'd go down and figure out how to make money and figure out how to go buy some bread and peanut butter. So that just was in my DNA, is to learn how to make money. And so money's been in my background, and I've made it a very conscious decision to get good at it because I wanted to change the future of my children from my. My upbringing and produce a different consciousness for them. So I really made it my personal journey to get really good at money and study for masters. It wasn't my profession. I never thought I would teach it. I never thought I'd author a book about money. I just want to get good at it for myself. So money was always in the background. But I was an achiever. I was a doer. I was all about success and getting to the top and Being noticed and fighting and competing and winning in everything I did in life, and especially when it came to money and business and ruthless and. I mean, I just made it to the top of my profession and game, just fighting and working so hard and living that lifestyle. And it was very satisfactory as well for the ego because I was really successful and a lot of notoriety and my name was a common household name in my entire industry. So that was great. And I thought that was really the, like, money and business and success was the route to happiness. And I never even stopped to slow down long enough to know if I was happy, honestly. But probably if you'd have asked me, I thought I was, but I was just on such that constant mission of the next achievement, the next rung in the ladder, the next accomplishment, the next award, the next, the next, the next.

This is what I want to explore too, because you have such a rich story there. I'm curious though, right now with all these things, all these pieces, like, what is wealthy wealthy for people that don't know anything about it?

Well, it was this. That story worked really well until it didn't work anymore. And I think that's what happens to so many of us is we're in this journey that we think is working really well until we have this crisis or life happens where it's this holy shit moment of that doesn't work. But we're caught up thinking it does until it doesn't. And that's where this thing called awareness shows up. That life just kicks our ass because we weren't paying attention. And Mother U's saying, okay, you're really going on a whole kind of trajectory here that's not sustainable. So when I had my health crisis, being a money and business person and investing and everything that I did, what I learned the hard way was that my body is my number one asset. And when you don't have your health, all the money in business and possessions and everything in the world really don't matter. All you want is your health back. And so people that have a big health crisis, they'll give their last dollar away to get their health. So Steve Jobs, he would have given his last billionth dollar away if they said, we could save your life if we could keep you from dying. And it's learning that hard lesson many times is, if we trade our health for wealth, what's the point? And so many people wind up there. But for me, what I learned on my deathbed was this realization of mother, you like, can I have another chance? I've Got the lesson. I fucked up my entire life. I was going after the wrong things. I thought that was the game. I thought that's how you won. I thought that's what fulfillment and happiness was. So it's just realizing that no love in my body and my health, that's what's important. Because I use my body, I use my health, I use my love, I use my heart to experience life. But it was being taken away from me. So I did this little exchange with Mother U that said, if you give me a second chance, I promise I'm going to change my life and I'm going to do great work with these lessons that I've learned that I think I've learned at that point. But it was this point where realizing that money and health are the exact same thing, that it's all about freedom, it's all about living, it's all about journey. And it's been being able to have the freedom to enjoy life, to pursue life, to live life, to. To even be able to go through the struggle of life. So the idea of wealthy wealthy came out of the realization for me of money and health really are the same things. They're assets, they're tools in a way. But it's their gifts that we can use to navigate our life in a healthy, wealthy way. That when if we don't have money and we don't have health, life is just that much harder.

I love the spelling on the name too. Wealthy. Wealthy. What do you think the difference is between being rich and being wealthy? Because I think people mix those up a lot. How do you see the difference in that?

Well, being rich to me, as far as a distinction, what that means from. I mean, we can use life can be rich so both life can be wealthy so they can go either side. And a distinction for wealth for me and for richness is the idea of financial freedom. And so being financially rich means we're financially free. And then we have to understand what is financial freedom like, what does that mean? Everybody wants. Wants it. Can you attain it? When do you know you've got it? How do you know if you've won the money game? So financial freedom place is when the money from our assets covers the costs of paying for the cost of our lifestyle, which means we don't have to use our body, meaning spending all of our time to go out there and do the grind. So many times we're in the grind for our entire lives.

Yeah, the grind can be so intoxicating.

And it is very intoxicating. But There's a point where we don't want to grind so hard, or maybe our body gives out or we age or life changes and we want freedom. And freedom is space. And space is time, and time is space. So the financial freedom means the passive income or the residual income, the income that comes from some other source other than our hard work that pays our bills so that we have the space and time to actually self actualize and to live and work according to what's meaningful and the purpose of our work, the intentionality of our work, the consciousness of our work, which has. It's much easier when you don't have to do it to pay the bills.

Yes.

And that's what I call this place of true self actualization. When you're really not doing it for the money anymore. You're still getting money in that transaction in the marketplace because that's the exchange of value. But at the end of the day when you're working because you would do it anyway because the bills are being paid. That's what I said is this threshold to true self actualization through your work as opposed to the money for your work.

There is so much to unpack there. And just to bring everyone up to speed on Kirk as well, episode 125, we went very deep into sleep. We talked about your work and your path, but you both have went through some incredible changes in your life. And this navigation that we're painting in this podcast today. Kirk, the last time I saw you, you were in a totally different place. You're in a totally different relationship. What brought you to Christina to form this wealthy? Wealthy? I mean, that's a unique blend of events to say the very least.

Well, I mean, Christina already had the brand when I met her. She had already. One of my favorite things that she says when she presents is that she I'm gonna screw it up. She realized.

It's a polarity that I realized again on my deathbed was that money matters more than anything. Money matters so fucking much. But also I realized it's not about the money.

It's just a resource, but it's a non negotiable resource. So the way we actually met is a mutual friend of ours told her when she was just starting her podcast and starting a brand and said, well, you should go over and meet this guy at paleofx. I had my booth at Paleofx a couple of years ago and she walks over and her and your assistant at the time, and she walks up to me and she says so and so says, you have an interesting story or just something totally blanket like that. And I'm. Okay, I don't really know what that means. What story are we talking about here? And then she just proceeds to, with these piercing blue eyes, just stare into my brain and just ask me question after question after question. It's like an hour and a half, and I'm just frozen, standing there just talking to her. And I ask her at one point, I'm like, what is it you do? And we'll get to that. And then she just keeps talking to me. And then she says, all right, thanks, and she walks off. I don't know her. I don't know her name. I don't know what she does.

Like, she never introduced herself?

No. Like, well, that was weird.

Oh, my God.

But I mean, I was just. I would. I mean, I was so damn curious and so intrigued. And so she did have her brand on her. On her shirt. So I'm like, well, maybe that. Like, that's it. So I look wealthy.

Wealthy.

And so I look it up online, and sure enough, there's a picture of her on the website. Okay, this is her. So I started reading about her, and then she called me to be on her podcast, and I came, and that's the first time I came here. I came here and I did the podcast, and, you know, we just hit it off, and we. We. You know, like I said, I was just living 30 minutes, 45 minutes down the road, and I was just kind of my little cave, like, grinding away on the supplement business, which really isn't my passion. It was just something I had to get going, you know, because. Because I had chosen to do it, and I'd taken friends money to do that. And so I'm just grinding away on that, but not really living my passion. And she's just so passionate, and she's really fresh to this wealthy, wealthy. I mean, she'd only been out of your crisis, like, a year or something, year and a half.

You just healed when you guys came together.

Yeah.

And so she had. She had only just come out of a crisis, and she had this, you know, this glow about her like this. In this, you know, this energetic passion of like, oh, my God. You know, like, this is the. Like, that next phase of life. Like, what you're starting to feel right now, like she. She was deep in that, and you could feel it from her. And I wasn't quite there yet. Like, I was. I was definitely bogged down, but I didn't. I didn't see. I didn't See the path yet? You know, I didn't, I didn't see what the real obstacle was yet. And. And we just hit it off and we just started having coffee meetings and I would drive up here and we would talk about, you know, joint ventures and she writing a blog on something health related. And we're like, you know, would you mind proofing this and giving me some feedback? And we just talked about things we could do together. And, you know, we, we really liked each other, but it was, it was purely professional. I mean, there was. Yeah, there was no flirtation or anything.

There was a friendship here.

It was a friendship, but. But like a really deep mutual respect.

Like we, we. You know, if you believed in other lifetimes or something like that, we'd been. We'd known each other another lifetime. But again, nothing romantic, nothing like that. It was just this deep understanding, like this real connection. And I just thought, man, I just like him. I know him. It's like we're kind of the same person in a way.

It's almost like your nervous systems trusted one another totally.

That's totally what it's like.

Yeah. And we really felt like there was. I mean, for one thing, you don't meet many people who are nearly exactly your age who grew up in nearly exactly the same kind of dysfunctional shit that you grew up in and managed to be successful and took care of their health. And there's so much similarity there. Like, that was compelling enough. And I really admired her business savvy and all that, which I didn't have any of. I didn't know a damn thing about business. I was making it up as I went along. So it was this really strong pool. We both really wanted to do something together. And we could see there's so many ways we could connect, but we couldn't see the path. We just couldn't see it. And you know, we were talking about before the show started, you know, I had, I had been. I don't want to say facilitating that I was doing it, but sort of making the connections to help veterans with some plant medicine options. People who are, you know, really kind of.

They're at their last rope.

Yeah. Like they're on the ledge. And it's like, well, you might as well try this risky thing now because they're probably going to suicide in a week or two if we don't do this, so what's the harm kind of thing. And one of the guys told me at the event here that I was telling you about, he had found a lot of Salvation with ayahuasca. And he told me about that while I was still a doctor in the SEAL teams. And so I was curious about it, but I hadn't really dug into it. And then after I got out of the SEAL teams, we went down to Mexico a few times with those plant medicines to save a couple of guys. I was literally saving their lives. And she had become curious about it. She'd gotten into meditation during her health crisis as part of her recovery and. And she's always been really tied to the universe. And I like how you call it mother you.

Yeah, I've never heard that.

Yeah, that's our phrase for it.

Okay.

I mean, I think I got it from you, but that's, that's our.

It's very self explanatory.

Yeah. And so anyway, just as, I don't know, we're just, I don't know, half a dozen eight, nine coffee meetings or something and we're still just, we want it, we're trying to figure it out, but, you know, she's busy and I'm busy and we don't really see how it goes together. And this email comes out to us that says it's basically, you know, a cosmic joke. It's basically like, hey, are you having trouble figuring out how you and your partner are going to do business together? You should come do this plant medicine retreat and it'll get your egos out of the way and you'll be able to figure out how to work together.

That's a really interesting email to receive.

Yeah. And we're like, are you kidding me? And where's that? Oh, it's in Austin. What? Okay, so I kind of think, you know, and we had talked a little bit about, about plant medicine, but just, I mean, very superficially, but we had both expressed that. Yeah, we're kind of at that stage in life. We're kind of, you know, we're kind of looking for past the external validation and like, what do I really think? What do I really believe? What do things really mean to me? What do I really want? And a lot of that requires you to get your ego out of the way. And everybody knows that that's, you know, plant medicines are one of the things that can help you get your ego out of the way.

Well, we probably hadn't talked for months. I mean, we'd shoot emails back and forth every once in a while. And if he's coming to Austin, he said, hey, I'm going to be in Austin. You want to grab a coffee? And we would Meet up. And so I'd received this email and he received it separately. We're both on the same email list. So funny enough, I just thought because we'd had a conversation, I think I was really starting to think about it and explore it. And he had had some work with it on the seals. And so since he was a doctor, I was asking him about it at one of our coffee meetings and said, that's right. Yeah. I said, you know, I know this is going to sound really off the wall. And, you know, I thought he was kind of this total straight and narrow type dude. So Navy Seal Dr. Dude, thanks for exactly. And NMD. Yeah. So. So I was thinking, okay, but I just. I'm thinking about this ayahuasca thing. I've read these books and I've been doing these studies and it's really calling me. And, and I've actually talked to a shaman and I'm. I'm really considering this, but I've had. I had a big mental break and I'm just wondering if maybe plant medicine would be very dangerous for me to do. So I. I'm called to do it, but I'm actually really afraid. So would you give me your doctor opinion about this? And I knew since he had said some things about the seals, and I knew he had never done ayahuasca before and. But he had done that work with people that had PTSD and had very similar psych break issues. So that's where the conversation started. And then side, you know, aside from that, we're trying to figure out how to do some business partnership things. And like I said, so these emails came in independently and I thought, oh, and it was for business people and trying to get your. Goes the other way. So I'm sending it to him and he's sending it to me because we don't know we're on the same email list. And in my email it says, this is really weird. This might seem really off the wall, but I'm thinking maybe this would be a good idea for us to try to figure out if we should be business partners and there's something there we can't figure out. And he was sending me an email more or less that said the same thing, just kind of passing at the same time. So again, just this real interesting timing that we're both thinking all.

And we don't usually check our emails. I mean, we're terrible at reading emails.

You both have assistants that kind of filter, Right?

So we both. Yeah.

So anyway, it almost seems just to interrupt Real quick. It almost seems that there was some kind of exterior force guiding that information.

I don't think there's any. To both of you. I mean, I'm a very pragmatic guy, but. And so I can't explain it, but I don't.

There's some things that.

There's no question. That's not a coincidence. Come on. That's right. I mean, that would be one hell of a coincidence if that were a coincidence. So, anyway, we. Yeah, we both decided we're going to do this, and we signed up for it. And I don't really know exactly what her husband thought of. She was married at the time. I was married at the time. My marriage wasn't really going that well anyway, but my wife really didn't want me to go do it without her. And I was like, well, this is really a business thing. And that was literally. That was our honest intent. Like, we're going down there. We're going to figure out how we're going to do business together, because we think there's some real power here. And so we did that, and we go down to this ayahuasca event, and it's three nights of ceremony, and all it was about was each other. All it was about was a relationship between us. It had nothing to do with business. And she got the most profound message the first night, which I think was really kind of like the last piece of the puzzle for her. And I wish. I really wish you could just do a podcast with her to hear her journey, because it's. It's so compelling and so powerful, and there was so much change and just inspiration in it, and it's just an amazing story. But I tell her this all the time. When I very first met her, there was something. There's something that wasn't quite released yet. There's a little bit of her that was held back, and I could see it, and I didn't know what it was. That's fascinated by her. No deficits. I wasn't saying there's something wrong with her, but I'm like, oh, there's, like. There's. There's a little layer there that. That's not quite exposed. And. And I think that's what she figured out. There was this one little obstacle on her way, and I'll let her tell what that was. You can say, what was your. What was your experience?

Yeah.

What was the sense. Was he correct in sensing that when he first met you?

Yeah, for sure.

Okay.

Yeah. And I didn't know it, and it Just Mother, you showed me through my experiences that it's wealthy wealthy.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

This.

This convergence of financial intelligence and health intelligence, like coming together, ceremony in a ceremony.

And so it's the wealthy wealthy. Because in my brand, I was really struggling, so I thought, how can Christina Wise be wealthy wealthy? And I was trying to do podcasts and blogs over on the health well side, I was trying to do the. All my books and all my personal stuff on the money side, which is, you know, is my expertise. And trying to figure out it's just too much for one person. And I don't. I'm not even a health person.

That was my sense to ask you, like, did you feel like in some way you energetically called him in because you knew you couldn't do it alone during ayahuasca?

It was just like wealthy, wealthy Christina and Kirk, like, we are supposed to do this together. And there's nobody that I admire more. There's not a better doctor. There's not a better, just grounded intelligence when it comes to medicine and true health. It's not all gamotry and hacking and all that other nonsense out there. That's just about real health and well being. And there's no one better that I admire more. And I've studied a lot of work and he's the guy, so he's like bringing these two worlds colliding. And mother, you just showed me, Christina, it's right here. Wealthy, wealthy. Like, hello, I'm trying to dangle this in front of you. And it just became so obvious for me.

This is a seed where we can pivot to, because navigating a moment like that, it must have also brought up, like exuberance and excitement and love and connection, but also probably fear because you're both in relationships. So did you take a deep breath? How did you transition? How did you navigate to changing your lives so that you could make this solidification?

Well, what I was alluding to with that was the fraud moment of ayahuasca.

Yeah.

What's the fraud moment?

I'll let her tell her.

So that was part of the. My ayahuasca experience was getting just some really big lessons, like, like painful. She was just calling me out. And then on the other side of just, I had this wild experience and experience of feeling love, just being embraced by love and in it and swimming in it, and it was just over the top, beautiful. So I've really got both these sides of mother you just calling me out and mother you showing me what was possible one of the first night, which she was what she told me she called me out a fraud. And you can call me a lot of things, and it's not going to bother me, but calling me a fraud is the one thing that will devastate me, because my whole life is about being transparent, real and truthful and honest. And, you know, even when you don't want to be honest and truthful, that's who I think I am. And so she's calling me out and saying, christina, you are a fraud. And I'm arguing with her in the ayahuasca ceremony, saying, I am not a fraud. Are you kidding me? She's like, yeah, you are, because you're in this marriage and you're in this relationship, and you're portraying it like it's the perfect marriage and the perfect relationship, but there's no love in your marriage.

So I'm just. I'm feeling in that moment, the challenge for any human being in a relationship to navigate is having, like, the most fearful conversation, the one that brings up the most emotion. And I can only imagine what it was like to go home and have that conversation with your spouse and say, hey, I did ayahuasca, and we're done. I mean, I have to laugh because it's like, it's so serious. It's so tremendous. This Christina, like, what was that like for you to have that conversation?

Well, yeah. So we had reached a place where the second. The second night, third day, that, all right, we're both in this. And he reached his place of truth. It's like, holy. I mean, he can tell his own story, but it's like, okay, this entire time, I've had these feelings for this woman named Christina. And we. He never went that side, and I never went that side. But he admitted it and said, I actually really love this woman. And that's what these feelings have been all along. And so he asked me to take care of his heart, that he's never given it to anyone, and if he gave it to me, would I take care of it? So that was that. And then the third night, we went in, really asking, mother U, how do we navigate this? Like, what do we do now? Holy fuck. And, you know, just knowing that, okay, if this was a decision and a choice to be made, and, I mean, we talked for hours and hours and hours. Very pragmatically, this wasn't this over the top romantic type thing that we have in our heads. Typically, that's really romanticized. This was just deep and real and profound and pragmatic. In a way. And just. We just had these real conversations like, okay, if we're going to do this, life is going to turn upside down. Are we sure we're.

Are we sure we're sure we're gonna go throw these hand grenades.

Exactly.

While we're in the room.

So. But just very, like, adulthood. Like, adulthood showing up as two adults saying, all right, if we do this, there's huge consequences, and. And we're gonna be walking into a very unknown, uncertain future.

Yeah.

So that.

Did you have fear of, like, people judging you? Like, oh, my God, yeah. You guys did ayah ceremony and you want to change your marriage? Did you have fear of being, like, you know, judged by your friends and colleagues?

Of course. And we actually talked about that, too, saying, you know, we are going to be seriously judged, and especially me, because my marriage was perfect out there in the public on paper and portrayed and so on and so forth. And we'd both been married. That was both of our second marriage. So you wrap that in as, okay, second divorce going into a third relationship. This looks really bad.

You know, we're completely aware how bad it looks.

Yeah. Yeah. And. Oh, great. We're throwing all these marriages and everything away because of an ayahuasca ceremony. Are you kidding me? So, absolutely. I mean, terrified. And really talking through that, like, these are the consequences. Those are the potential consequences of our choices. And. And we're going to lose friends. You know, are we prepared for that? I mean, this is no bullshit. This is a very serious choice. And so let's be really real and honest about what this, like, the. The true hard consequences of this choice are going to be. And that was that third day or fourth day after the third ceremony, really talking about that. But still, we didn't really come out of that with a plan. We just knew that this was a choice, and we were going to go home and think about it and figure out what to do next.

Did you already know, though? Even though you had to go home and think about it, did you already.

Know what you were going to do?

Well, so I came home, actually, and walked in the door, and. And this is hard to talk about. We've never talked about this publicly or told anyone, actually, except ourselves. But I actually walked in the door, and my husband was very sweet and hugged on me and said, welcome back. I've missed you, and tell me all about it. And I couldn't even hug him in a way, not in a bad way. But I said, we have to talk. So we walked outside to sit on the sofa out there. And I said, I'm so sorry that. But I've had this experience, and what I've learned is I have this next phase of my life that I need to walk into, and. And we're not together in that next phase, and. And so I'm asking for a divorce.

What did he say?

He broke down. It. It. You know, it. It wasn't. You know, he tried to talk me out of it and wanted more explanation, which he deserved that, like, out of the blue. I'm just making, you know, he had. I mean, talk about, like, blindsided. Blindsided. And, I mean, there had been, you know, in fairness to me, in a way not to make me sound like that, harsh and cold. I mean, there had been many conversations prior to that where I was suggesting, like, something's not feeling right. This. You know, something's got to change in our marriage. But it wasn't. There was nothing fundamentally wrong. I just knew I wasn't satisfied. Like, I wasn't passionate about this. Something was missing. And I thought if I could do something right with him or something, if I went onto the spiritual quest, and then I could get that back in a way. But I just realized that it wasn't with him.

But, I mean, he'd realized that. From a trip that you had planned before.

Yeah, and a trip that I'd had planned. And so that's why it was called a fraud and everything else. But I was absolute. Like, there was no question as to. Even if it weren't for Kirk, this relationship was over and that I had to have the courage to end it. And if I were going to be truthful and fair to him and live in my truth, then I couldn't go days or weeks or months pretending anymore. Like, I just like, okay, this is over. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, was just sit down, look him in the eye, and, you know, he's crying, and we're holding on to each other, and he was moved out the next day. I mean, that's really how it went down. And it was horribly painful. I mean, I felt terrible, you know. I mean, I felt so terrible. But I just knew that was my truth. And I didn't want to have an affair. I didn't want to go into trying to get truthful.

You wanted to be anything but a fraud. And I think so many people listening can relate to this. Like, they get a message, and they kind of stuff it down. They get another message, and they stuff it down.

And those Things step up eventually.

That one's too big. That's too hard. Not that one.

I don't want to deal with that one. And it's funny, Kirk, I don't know if it's the right timing or not, but. But I almost believe that I might have interviewed you at this time. Cause this is about a year ago, right?

A year and a half ago.

Yeah. So this might have been the time that I was at your home in San Diego. Had that already occurred when you and I interviewed last time, or was that after the fact?

I'm so bad with daytime. I have to.

It was like 125 episodes ago. So anyways, Christina told us about her leaning into her truth, incredibly uncomfortable as it was. What was the conversation for you?

Yeah, so for me. And one thing I wanted to add that it was one of the most powerful things that came out of all that conversation when we were first deciding if we were going to do this is I said to her, and I can't remember who all I rattled off, but I'm like, what are they going to think? And that person. And that person. All these people are like, what are they going to think? And she said, I don't have any room in my life for people who don't support my decisions.

And.

That'S it. Like, I'm gonna. I'm going to live my life the way I think I should live my life. And if people don't support me, then they won't be part of my life anymore, and I don't care who it is. And I was like, wow, check out the big balls on Christina. Like, that's a powerful statement. And I'm like, yeah, that's. I mean, and it's a hard place to get to. I'm there now. Like, I wasn't there then. I was way too much into external validation. I was way too much into pleasing. I was way too much into being agreeable. And for me, I mean, you know, as we talked about earlier, my biggest fear was not damaging her life. I mean, I was really afraid that. That this was going to be too traumatic and too impactful for her. That was my real hesitation. My marriage had been over for a long time, and I knew it, but the Superman complex wouldn't let me let it go. And there was nothing wrong with my ex wife. I mean, she's a lovely person, but she wasn't happy. And I wasn't happy with her, and she wasn't happy with me. We just weren't on the same path. And it's really hard to say, wow, I really thought this was going to work out, but we just don't seem to be going in the same direction. And without making somebody feel blamed, without making somebody feel betrayed. So that was really the hard balance for me. I mean, it was no surprise to her that our marriage was struggling. I mean, we knew our marriage was struggling, and it wasn't struggling around. Like, the typical things. Like, we weren't fighting. We weren't. You know, I mean, there's always financial concerns of a marriage. Everybody always wants more money. But that wasn't like, a big issue for us. Like, we didn't have any major issues other than the lifestyle. The life that we had built together was not a life she was happy in. And her lack of happiness wasn't allowing me to pursue what we intended to pursue with the true vigor. So I was muted, but not. I wouldn't say I was unhappy. I was muted, a little defeated, but optimistic that there would be something, like something was going to make all this snap around.

And then comes ayahuasca. And.

The lesson for me, coming back from that, which I just never. I never put words to, probably until our Bali experience with this relationship course. And actually, I can't say I put words to it. His words essentially were, you just can't be responsible for anyone else's happiness, and you can't be responsible for anybody's emotions or happiness or triggers or upset. Like, that's all their shit. And if you try to make yourself responsible for that, you're screwing their life up, right? You're protecting them from their challenge, their. Their friction, the wind they have to raise against. You're putting up a windshield for them. You know, again, I'm living your life for you. Don't worry about it. You're the damsel in distress. You have some problems, you have some concerns. I'll save. I'll save you from all that. You don't have to have any struggle in your life. You don't have any. You don't have to grow. You don't have to overcome anything. And so I didn't have those words for it at that time, but there was some awareness and understanding around it. It's like, I'm not doing her any favors. I'm not doing her any favors by pretending like this isn't the reality of our relationship.

Is this all coming through in the.

Ceremony, or you had a sense that this was there before?

No, this is all because of the ceremony, because of our conversation, that I really was able to reevaluate my role and, you know, and drop that Superman complex. You know, I mean, that was part of the ego that hadn't gone away, right? Yeah. I don't care if I. I don't care if I die five minutes from now. Like, you know, that to me, that was having no ego. I don't think I'm. I don't think I'm better than other people. I don't. I don't. When I lecture, I'm not lecturing down to people. I'm trying to have a conversation with people. I don't think I'm right. Like, I'm. I am one of the few doctors that you or me that will say, I don't know anything. Everything.

Your patients trust you.

Like, everything I think I know is a construct that's been taught to me or I've learned from other people's learning and I could be wrong about everything. All I'm sharing with you is what I think is true. And so, you know, it was, you know, the ego part that was left was still the. I can save other people from living their life. I can save other people from the struggles in their life and not think I'm doing them a favor, which is kind of like the helicopter parent. I wasn't doing her any favors by trying to make her happy no matter what she did. Like, she wasn't putting the work into it that she needed to put into it. We weren't having the conversations, the true, honest conversations, like, what's really going to make you happy? And I didn't even need to have that conversation once I got there, I'm like, I can't make her happy. And the day I could admit to myself, I can't make her happy. And I'm not counting on Christina to make me happy either. And I'm not going into this to make Christina happy. What Christina and I realized about ourselves is that we're both of our, you know, our entire lives, we been extraordinarily driven by self growth and personal improvement, achievement, all the stuff that is truly self growth and confused with self growth. We've always pursued that head on, and we've always been very good at it, and we've always outgrown our relationships. I have very few friends that I've had for more than 10 years or something. I mean, like a handful of friends that are like lifetime friends. And what we realized is that the lack of fulfillment in it is that we're doing that alone. And it doesn't do me any good to go make myself 500% better if my partner is right where my partner was or for me to like me to develop along this path and her to develop along that path. And that was a shortcoming in her relationship as well. Is the, the path that she was on in earnest wasn't really interesting to him. It wasn't anything that he was pursuing.

I feel like sometimes people will stay in relationship or even be attracted to get into a relationship because there's like a hole that they think might be filled. And I think even the. Honestly, it's an industry, the industry of marriage is fueled by playing to people's insecurities. You have to buy this ring, you have to live in this kind of house. It has to look exactly like this. And I feel like in a way it's the glass slipper theory where we're taught from a very young age, Walt Disney did a good job, didn't he, of just telling us this is how it's supposed to be, you're supposed to feel this way and all that. And what I'm feeling from you guys so profoundly today is we write our own stories.

And what we agreed to, what we agreed the purpose of our relationship was and why we thought we were powerful together and why we thought we should be together is I'm just gonna call her on her bullshit. I'm going to provide her with more friction. You're going to rise against the friction, I'm going to give you more friction. I'm calling you on your bullshit and I fully expect you to call me on my bullshit. And that way we can help each other.

And it was entering it as well, especially because of the ayahuasca experience. And it started in this place of self revelation and through this medicine experience. And so it's interesting, I mean, that's where our relationship started was out of an ayahuasca ceremony, three day ceremony. So there's so much richness built in there because it was all about growth and understanding and new awareness and truth and called on bullshit. And so that was the genesis of our beginning. And so part of our conversation was, is that neither one of us are into the romantic story. You know, been there, done that twice, it doesn't work out. And so it's a conversation of what is the purpose of a relationship? Like, what's really the purpose? Like if you're going to be in an intimate relationship, you're going to share your life with somebody. Why, if it's not to fill a hole or it's not to be the Cinderella story, if Those two things don't work, then why the hell would we do it? And we really believed about each other because we just had so much admiration and respect for each other as human beings with no romantic stuff in between. I admired this man. I respected him. I felt this kindred connection to him. He grew. He started in a trailer home. He had an abusive stepfather that just abused the shit out of him. And somehow they were poor and I mean, a terrible upbringing. And he gets himself into the Navy. This man didn't graduate high school. He got a GED. He went to the SEALs, to the military, to kind of escape or get a new beginning. But not just the military. He goes to seals and he kills it. Then from the seals, he goes to medical school. From medical school, he goes on to kind of buck the system of the medicine system and does this, you know, becomes the sleep expert and transforms people's lives. And then he creates a sleep supplement that just is effective and it helps millions of people. And I just know this little kid who was so, like, damaged and just wanted to try so hard and was just this great little soul out there just trying to do hard work and get through things and be a little superhero and try to make the world work and just do better and do better and do better. So I just admired his life story of this growth and this journey and the strength and the courage and defeating all odds. You know, it's just such a beautiful story. Like, he's an extraordinary human being. So I appreciated and respected, admired that about this human being that I never a million years thought I would be in a relationship with that wasn't. And I think he thought the same about me. And we both have been through hell and we both grown so much, and we really both have defied all the odds based on where we started from. So I think that's so much of what this kind of the resiliency in the story and so much that was part of our connectedness. So when we decided to be a couple, we asked ourselves, like, what's the purpose of this? And that was it. Like, my entire life had been growth and his entire life had been growth. And we still wound up in this place of self. Growth is important. Self spirituality is important. But at the end of the day, if you're all alone, who do you get to express that with? Who do you get to experience that with? Who do you get to talk about? Who do you get to struggle with? Who do you get to go through this spiritual experience with? You know, and so that was it. It's like, we're going to go in this, grow together, to grow together, to struggle together, to fight together, and just to journey and knowing it's not going to be easy. We're stepping into this in very difficult circumstances. I don't advise it for anyone out there this way.

We're not saying, go to a center, don't go do this.

We're total optimists, and we weren't prepared for how it kicked our ass.

Don't try this.

You know what's really powerful for me is something you said, Kirk, on a different show, and it was after you guys have done such an incredible. You held such an incredible story for us listening, you know, because so many people have been through relationships and breakup, and it's. It's the hardest thing. Relationships tug so deep down to our heart's core. And you said something really, really profound. You said, you know, this is the first time in my life that I know exactly who I am. And I. And I kind of. I felt that, too, because I feel like I'm stepping into that personally, and I feel like a lot of people that listen to the show are stepping into that themselves. Why do you feel like now you know exactly who you are? Like, what is it about that's occurred that's allowed you to have that truth?

Well, there are probably multiple reasons, but the most profound reason is because of my relationship with her. Something she didn't. She didn't say, but we. We say all the time, is that she and I both process by talking. I. I can't think without being able to talk. I'll talk to myself in my office just so I can hear it. And we both do that. So when you're talking about, oh, I'm going to go learn this, I'm going to grow in this way for both of us. It's not really fully processed and solidified until we can talk about it. And so who are you going to talk about it to if they're not going through it with you? So that was one of the powers of our relationship, and that's one of the reasons that I've been able to grow so much faster since being in a relationship with her is because I can talk things through with her. And we do have the same appreciation for language, and we have very similar backgrounds, and we know we can understand each other in a way that neither of us has ever been understood before. But I don't want to go too deep into childhood psychobabble bullshit, but. But part of the message I grew up with was that men are pricks and they're abusive and they're controlling, and they're angry and they're violent.

They don't show emotion other than anger and frustration. We don't ever go to the feeling part as men.

But the only My role was to protect women, and I was protecting the women who should have been protecting me. And so that was kind of of my path. And so part of that was that I wasn't allowed to be angry, and I wasn't allowed to be afraid, and I wasn't allowed any of the human emotions. I wasn't even allowed to be a kid. I had to be a big, strong, tough man at like, 5 years old. And so part of being able to hold that facade up is that I have to. Bullshit. I can't be afraid. I can't be scared. I can't. I can't, I can't, I can't. Which is, you know, bullshitting is lying. It's a. You know, whether you're lying by not showing emotion or lying by saying something isn't true, it's the same goddamn thing. You're communicating message that isn't true. And for the first time in my life, I trusted somebody enough to tell her everything. Like, she knows everything about me. Everything. And once somebody knows everything about you, and you dump it all out there, and then that person says, I love you. I love you because of all that shit, that doesn't scare me, you know? And in doing that, it's the first time I've ever been able to accept who I am and accept my flaws and accept all the stuff that I hid. Because you can't be a fucking superhero if people know what your kryptonite is. And so it was all hidden. It wasn't there. Like, nobody knew it. And, you know, and in that respect, no one's ever had a chance of a real relationship with me. And once I could tell her, and believe me, she wasn't easy about it. She asked brutal questions. She dug deeper than I know.

I'm in the kitchen.

She goes, how do you make money?

Yeah, like, all right, Christina, you're a straight shooter.

And I'm like. I'm, like, digging deep to, like, figure out how I'm going to say this thing to bare my soul. Like, here's this thing I don't want to say. All right, let's talk about five layers deeper than that. What about this? What about that? And I'm like, shit. Like, that was hard enough for me to say that. And she wasn't easy, but at the end of it, I left this with. Once you get it all out there, you're like, oh, fuck. I. Like, I'm actually okay. Like, I've been hiding all this shit, and I've been making it worse. I've been making it bigger and more scary and more shameful and more embarrassing by hiding it. Once it all gets out there, then it's like, I guess it's really not all that bad after all. Like, yeah, I wish I would have done that better. I wish I would have done that. But, you know, my intentions have been good. I'm. I think I'm an overall good person, and I think that, you know, her being able to share that with somebody allowed me to really figure out who I was. Like, where. What am I really afraid of? What am I really ashamed of? Where am I not living up to my own values? Where am I bullshitting myself? Why am I bullshitting others? And then if I can say, okay, I'm bullshitting myself there, and I'm bullshitting others there and forgive myself for bullshitting all those people and say, I'm not going to do it anymore, but I'm okay with the fact that I've done it. It's a human condition. It doesn't make me a sociopath. It's just, okay, I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm comfortable with all of it. You know, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Like, it's fine. I'm comfortable with all of it. And I don't have to be a superhero anymore. I don't have to. I don't have to bullshit.

It's so freeing, isn't it, to know that we don't have to save anyone. And I love where we are in this conversation. Conversation. Because, Christina, you said earlier, like, like, money and health, they're. They're literally side by side, exactly the same percentage of value. And. And we've talked so deeply about relationships. I'd love for you guys to describe how we have this convergence now in 2019 of health, wealth, relationships, like this wealthy, wealthy concept, because I'm excited to be at the event. Like, I'm going to be here. You know, it's just a couple months away. But I think for people to conceptualize this. This understanding of maybe they're a little bit, like, intimidated of making those hard choices in their life right now because it's so scary to tell the truth. How do you think that the truth and telling the truth is going to be some of the undercurrent of what you guys do with wealthy, wealthy. Like how is that built into the curriculum?

Well, even when we talk about coming to the event, we all leave our superhero costumes at the door and we just walk in as human beings. Because everybody that's here is professional, successful in their own right, are super achievers out there in the real world. But we, we just get to be human inside. And so it's kind of like Burning.

Man in a way.

Nobody knows if they're a CEO or not, right?

Yeah.

But really kind of maybe to put a package on this and you know, bow on this entire conversation, is that where Kirk and I wound up as well together through this whole experience and making these choices is, is that, you know, my big portion of my life was money and success. I had my health crisis and then came to health. But it was this journey, the sequence of the first part of my life, first young adulthood was money will make me happy. I just have to win the money game and life will work itself out. Come to realize that just money doesn't make you happy. And then had this really, this belief that money and health will make you happy. You can't sacrifice your health for wealth. But if you have your money and your health, then your mental, spiritual, emotional health with you. So financial wellness and physical, mental, spiritual wellness, then that's what happiness is. That's where fulfillment is. It's having these two things. And his went a little bit reverse. His was, you know, really health related in that and. And then it went money in business and same pursuit though, thinking, oh, health is if you're big and strong and superhero, that will make you happy and healthy and. And then he thought, okay, well not so much, but if I, you know, win this business game and do well here and earn all this money, then all my, the my woman will be happy and, and I'll be happy. And we live this fantasy lifestyle dream and both of us were really backwards. But when we're coming into this collision of our two lives together, of where these two magical contingencies connect, is that our conversation was, whoa. It's this belief that money will make you happy whether we admit it or not. Realize like, nope, that's not the case. Well, good health can make you happy. And then we both realize, like, no, life is about love. We're pursuing money. There's all this just craziness about the health industry right now and all the hacking and the gimmetry and the gadgetry and the technology and that's great. Nothing necessarily wrong with it, but it's just so extreme. And all the conversations around business and entrepreneurialism is just so extreme. And then when we come together, realize, like, you know, this whole thing, it's the game of love is the game of life. And it's love or fear. And the best way to face our fears is a great relationship because it's going to trigger every fear that you have when you're in a great relationship and you're afraid of losing them and everything that the real work is self love first. That's where the work is. We have to learn to love ourselves. And until I had my break, I didn't love myself. I didn't feel lovable. I escaped myself through success and achievement and all this other things. And I had to completely break apart to get to be whole. Where I love this woman named Christina Wise. I love her. But then that's not enough. I mean, I have to love me before I can express and love somebody else is my belief. But the wholeness of that is now sharing that love and loving somebody else, like fully loving them for who they are because they've exposed everything about who they are to me. And I realized, like, I love them and this feeling of love is that's what life is about. But we're in pursuit of all these other things and we're crazy about them and filling our lives. And that's where we realize, like, we're in the game of love. We're going to love each other, we're going to grow together, we're going to fight it out if we have to, but our hearts are connected, and it's the game and journey of love, but it's about us, and then everything else is the game. So are we in the money and business game? You betcha, yeah. Are we in the health game, meaning we want to be healthy and that type of thing? Absolutely. Do we think we're kind of the best of each one of these categories? Yeah, we do. But regardless, we're in the love game. And that's what we're bringing together with wealthy. Wealthy. It's this. It's the. It's. The true integration of life is that we don't have a choice whether we play the money game. We have to get good at it.

We're here in this reality, and it's Monopoly, and this is what we do.

It really is. So we have to get good at it. So what does it take to get good at anything? It takes some study, it takes some application, but you have to have some intentionality. But you can't escape the money game. We can't put our heads in the sand, we can't ignore it. Money doesn't just work out. Money's very pragmatic. It's practical, it's learnable, it's doable. Anybody can do it. We just have to take. We have to get over our bullshit stories about it and then we have to go apply the principles and then it's pretty easy. Health game. We can only get so healthy, right? But so all the pursuit and everything, it's actually, at the end of the day, money's pretty simple. Health is pretty simple. In the grand scheme of things. The love thing is the hardest thing. That's the hard work. This is the ultimate teacher and how to get away from fear and more towards love. And so, and then how is that, how are those three games integrated? Because we can't escape those games.

I'll tell you what, like, I don't know any other personal development, conference event, business, whatever you want to call it, Mastermind, that really does do a deep dive into each one of those categories from a place of love. That to me seems like a complete against the grain approach to business health relationships. Because, man, I've been to Brendon Bouchard, I've been to different Tony Robbins events. And one thing I'll say is that a lot of it is focused on getting yourself in a state, getting yourself in a peak state, changing your state. But I think it's also the value of stillness and the value of just not doing anything at all. Is that integrated into your event, where there's pockets of stillness, where nobody's actually doing anything besides just breathing into what is.

I think also if you wanted to describe states, and I'm with you, I've been through a lot of those same types of training. But what state's more powerful than love? What's more fulfilling, what feels better? And what we've both realized is, yeah, there's a lot of games to play in life. You have to play these games, but there is a purpose for that game. And it sounds like woo woo, esoteric and not something you'd think the Navy SEAL doctor would say, but it's about love. Like that's all it is. And you have to play the money game because you have to have the resources, right? If you can't meet your own needs, you can't meet anybody else's needs. It's really hard to feel loving when you're living on the street, like eating out trash cans, right? And health's the Same way. I mean, you can have, you can be a billionaire, be on your deathbed. Doesn't matter that you're a billionaire. You're having a really hard time having meaningful relationships because you can't, you know, you can't really do anything. You don't have the health to do it. Conversely, if I gave you all the money and like, okay, so here we go, Josh, here's the game. We're going to try this experiment. Everybody's leaving this planet except you. You have all the money, you have all the resources. You can do whatever you want and you got perfect health. We're going to give you an eternity to live on this planet by yourself with all the money and all the resources, all the toys, all the gadgets, all the cars.

Yeah, I think I would just jump off a cliff, right?

I mean, it would suck. You'd be like, why am I here? Why would I? There would be no purpose to doing it. Yeah, but flip it, right? Like look at, you know, people who live austere lives on purpose. You know, the Indian gurus and Tibetan monks and all these people, they don't, they don't really need much money. They have good health because they don't do things damaging to their health. But what, you know, what are they focusing their life on? I mean, they're focusing their life on loving this universe or loving their God or loving their fellow man or something like that. It's the only thing that's fulfilling.

And we can be so distracted by all the stuff out there. I mean, even plant medicine can be a distraction in some cases if we make it about something. It's not. It's in the search versus being, like you said, present in the moment. And just being here with you. What a special moment to sit here with you. And you're just so centered and you're just such a good soul and your love shines out of you and you know, being in your presence, that's what this is about. Yeah, and being good people, heart centered. But we have to get back to love while we're in these other games and start from there.

There's a moment that I had when we were talking today and it was just like so special because two years ago I interviewed Gain Katie Hendricks. They're the founders of the Hendrix Institute. And they talk about physical intelligence, body, somatic, experiencing. And one thing that that gay really challenged me on once, he said, you know, Josh, like when people are in fear and they're focused on the fear and they're feeling the fear, it's almost impossible unless they can love that fear, for them to actually have a rich life, to have a great life. And I was like, well, gay, how do we love our fear? And he said, well, the same way that you love your wife or your girlfriend or you just. You apply the practice, the imperfectly perfect practice of continuously applying the love, even if it's hard, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable. That's what life is all about. It's even loving the fear. I'm curious what you guys think about fear constriction, how people could leave this interview feeling like, you know what, no matter what's going on in my life, if I can just apply the practice of love, truly apply the practice of love. What does that look like?

A big part of it, too, is it's truth. Truth and love. This word called truth. And, you know, Kirk talked about it. You know, we're all such good bullshitters. We all put on this show. We're all saying the right things.

Welcome to Wellness Force.

So it's getting to a place of truth and just being truthful. Truthful, Even what we're afraid of. Truthful, I don't know, just truth. So in the place of love, it's facing the fear. It's not being afraid of the fear. I think that's it is that we're so distracted we're going on to the next thing or keeping ourselves busy or whatever the nonsense is out there. It's a way to go around the fear. And that's part of what plant medicine, why it can be so powerful? Because you just have to go straight through it. You can't avoid it. We can't be distracted in plant medicine.

And the more you fight it, the more it increases.

Exactly. So same thing in real life. It's like, how do we apply that same thing in real life? We could do 50 ayahuasca experiences, but if we can only experience facing the fear through the medicine, but we can't do it in real life, I don't think anybody's going to have the true growth out of the plant medicine. So the next plant ceremony is not going to do it for you. The integration is to be able to face fear in real fucking life. Because it's scary out here. I mean, there's all this stuff, and especially in an intimate relationship, it's really scary. What if he leaves? What if he falls out of love with me? What if I'm not good enough? What if, what if, what if, you know, fear, fear, fear, fear. What if I'm Abandoned, you know, I truly am abandoned, which is my biggest fear since I was abandoned as a child. So. But those fears are present. And like, maybe your friends said, love the fear. Face the fear. Be honest with the fear. Look at right in the. You know, in the face and say, all right, you're there. This is what I'm afraid of. And how do I go through it? Or how do I get help to go through it? But we have to quit, I think, distracting ourselves or not having all these excuses or reasons or busynesses or the next thing, whatever's trending at the time, to go do yoga in Bali on such and such. Like, that's going to actually be the.

You know, the something out there.

There's something out there. That's what's gonna be this spiritual place of, I don't know, I reached this place where I'm fulfilled. It's like, no, it's just. It's right here, right now, going through the fear that we have. It's not out there in any other part of the world. It's not out there with any other anything out there. It's right here, and it's with us as we speak. And that's the journey of life. It's like, all right, maybe I busted through that one, but there's the next one. And that's the next part of my journey and my growth. And. And when it comes to love and relationships, what Kirk and I both believe is the fastest place, the fastest way to face fear is in an intimate relationship. Because intimate relationship is the mirror of our biggest fears, which is the fear of abandonment, which is the fear of overwhelm, which is the fear of, what if I'm not good enough? So the intimacy, like, we can go feel these things alone and think we've done the journaling or the. The meditation or the such and such, and then I can go feel great about myself out there. And then I come here right with him, and he's upset with me or something. I'm thinking, well, what if he leaves? You know, so the mirror, the practice. I just think the real world practice of love is in relationships, but we're out there searching for the next thing versus being right here, connected, the three of us having this conversation.

This is why I feel like it's so important. Before you go, Kirk, like the epidemic of loneliness. We're the loneliest we've ever been in events like Wealthy, Wealthy. This conversation that's going to ripple out to thousands of people like this. To me, this is exciting to just be able to do this. There's the gratitude. That's a piece of this, you know, the gratitude's a piece of everything we do. I'm curious how you see it, though, in this. How do we apply love to fear? And how do you love the fear? What do you think about that?

So for me, I mean, there's so many layers of that. I mean, my head was swimming with that question. But one of the most powerful things that came out of our last event, Tate Fletcher was here as one of the guests. And he is he the pirate guy, pirate radio guy. And he's, you know, he's this big badass. He's like a movie star, ufc, former UFC fighter. You know, he's a huge guy, tatted up, bald head, big beard, intimidating looking guy, stuntman, actor. Like, great dude. But he was like, everybody was just so amazed by this. He stole everybody's heart to the event. Like, everybody was in love with Tate by the time the event was over. But something he said in that event, and I've heard it in other ways, and some people, it resonates a different way. But for me, it was so powerful. The way Tate said, it's like, anytime I'm suffering, anytime I'm struggling, I think to myself, am I being egoic or am I being loving? And you can replace ego with fear, right? Because ego is a defense from fear. If I get angry, why do I get angry? I'm protecting myself against my own fear, and I'm projecting that fear on somebody else or something else, and I'm not allowing myself to feel that fear. I'm fucking angry. I'm gonna be aggressive about this. So if you're. If you're being egoic, you're really being fearful. And the only way to get past that fear is to not bullshit. So anger is a form of bullshitting, right? Like, you're lying, you're lying to yourself, you're lying to other people, and you know it. And you can't. You can't respect bullshit. You can't respect lies. And something I wanted to say at the beginning, when she was talking about our relationship at the beginning, one of the biggest things that this relationship retreat that we went to, that was so powerful and Bali was. He said in so many words, multiple times, multiple ways, that love is really nothing more than profound respect. And what we had was absolute respect for each other.

Like.

No, there's like, oh, so much respect and admiration. And that's what we had. But we didn't have a romantic aspect of that. And the romantic part grew out of that, but the respect was. I mean, that was the love. And so it was a form of love. We just weren't calling it love, but that's what it really is. And if you're going to love yourself, you know, you have to respect yourself. And you can't respect yourself if you're bullshitting. You can't respect yourself if you're protecting yourself from your fears. You fucking know you're afraid. Have the courage to just step forward and move into love, whether it's loving yourself and going, I feel like such a coward right now, but I'm gonna do this anyway.

Can I do it anyway? Oh, my God, that's so profound. Can I just do it anyway?

And if I can do it, then I can love myself. And now I'm doing out of love. It's like, I can fail now, but I did it because I love myself still, because I fucking did it. I had the balls to do it. I got my ass kicked. I'll do it again. I'll do it again. I'll do it again. Now I raise that by a factor of 10. By doing that with somebody you care about and worrying about whether or not they're gonna still love you. Even though you're afraid, even though you're feeling like a coward, even though you're feeling uncertain or untrustworthy, you're bullshitting yourself. Or, you know, because we have this absolute no bullshit rule, and we'll still go, you're bullshitting.

You break your own rules.

Like, are you sure you're playing along with the no bullshit rule?

And you're like, you're right.

We're both laughing and we're so focused on it, but it's. It's so deep, it's so pervasive that you don't realize that you're just. The tiniest little. Bullshit matters. It really does. Where do you want to go to dinner? I don't really care. Well, if that's bullshit, you're damaging the.

Relationship, even if it's tiny.

Yeah. And there's a book that we talked about a lot at one of the events. I don't know if the last one or the one before is the subtle art of not giving a fuck. And one of the things that he said in that book, which just goes along so well with that is he talks about how his wife will spend hours getting ready and come out and say, how did I look? And I'm like, mmm, doesn't really look all that great. Right. And his friends are like, are you crazy? Like, why would you say that? That's not what you're supposed to say. And he's like, why? It's true. And they're like, yeah, but you're gonna hurt her feelings. And he said, yeah, I understand that. And it's gonna cause some friction in the relationship, but I value honesty more than I value lack of friction. And it's, you know, it's the friction that you go across, you know?

Yeah. And there's a way to deliver it where it's not like you look ugly.

Yeah.

It's like, hey, baby, what about this one?

You know, and that's the other thing is you can't use honesty as a. As a weapon. Like, you can't be cruel.

Yeah.

There are some people that are just.

Like, I like radical honesty. It's like, well, you're kind of a dick.

Yeah.

You're always being radically honest.

Yeah. And I. And like, I'm not going to come up and just say something like, I don't give a. That you don't care about this.

Yeah.

Because this is honest.

Like that.

I mean, that's. That's still cruelty.

Yeah. Oh, my God, you guys, I love this so much.

And I actually have one more thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Cruelty is a projection of your fear. The only reason you're cruel to anybody else is you're protecting yourself from your own fear. Sarcasm is a form of cruelty, like biting. Sarcasm is a form of that, but.

Not JP Sears style. That's funny. That's funny.

No, his isn't biting.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I just want to acknowledge both of you for your journeys to get here, for us to have this conversation, because I'm 38, I'm not in an intimate relationship. It's definitely in my stratosphere. I'm doing a lot of work on it. And the model that I think you're setting is so admirable. Just to be able to spend time with both of you and see and feel and viscerally feel what you're creating and to come from health struggles and almost dying. Christina. And then Kirk, I didn't even know that about you in the trailer and the abuse and everything thing. And like, how do you both see wellness now?

You know, with everything you've been through.

Like, how would you define wellness? What does wellness mean to you, Christina? To be. Well.

Well, wealthy. Wealthy really is about financial wellness, health. Wellness and the wellness of love. Like feeling well. It's just, it's.

It's just another form of freedom.

Yeah.

Right. I mean, the money freedom is. I mean, you can be technical and smart with her. The passive cash flow from your assets. It's having enough money to where you don't have to worry about money. Health is having enough health to where you don't have to worry about health. Do I have enough money to go buy an airplane? No. Does that mean I don't have enough money? No, because I'm not trying to buy an airplane. But if I wanted to buy an airplane, I don't have enough money. If I wanted to go run the Ironman right now, I don't have that kind of health. I don't have that kind of performance. But for what I do, I have plenty of health for what I want to do with my life, and we have plenty of money for what we want to do with our lives, and we have plenty of love between us to get through the struggles that are bound to happen in all three of those areas, which is being rich, and that's freedom, and that's rich, and that's wealth, and that's health, and that's fulfillment.

I think this is what everyone really wants. I know it's what I want. It's what inspires me to have these conversations. It's why I want to be a tremendous podcast host, because I want to come from a place of truth and freedom. So would you say that combined, maybe that wellness essentially for you both would be truth and freedom, or would it be something else?

Yeah, I mean, I would say that truth is just another form of freedom. And I mean, it's really. It's really just all freedom to me. It's like. Like you can romanticize and idealize, but your ideations about what ideal would be changes throughout your lifetime. As far as the specifics. But I think if anybody really digs down to the core of what does your ideal life look like? It really means that I get up every day excited to be where I am, and I get to do whatever the hell I want to do because I want to do it. And that's not to say that you, like, there's never any have to's or things that you. But 95% of my life, I'm doing something I really want to be doing, even if I don't technically want to be doing it right then. It's like, I really want to go to the gym. Like, this morning, I didn't really want to be at that gym, and I was, like, kind of pissed off that I was there. It's too early. I'm like, I don't really want to be here, but I really do want to be. Like, that's really more consistent with my goal. That's my truth. I want that health more than I wanted to be in bed.

And I guess that's the definition of freedom, is doing what we want, when we want and with whom we want, which is the ultimate freedom. And you think about if we're going to be able to do and being rich is having more choices. So when we have lack of money, we have fewer choices. When we measure that against our wealthy, wealthy life, the life that we design, the life that's fulfilling, the life that's good enough and not in a mediocre sense. But life doesn't have to always be about more. It's not about more. A lot of times now I think it's about a lot less. But if being rich is having more choices, then the more money we have, in a way, we just have more choice. Too much choice cannot necessarily be a good thing either. But it's just the choice when it comes to health. I didn't have any choices when I was in my bed and couldn't get out of bed. I didn't have the choice to go love on my children. I didn't have the choice to go out with friends and have a great dinner. I didn't have the choice to have a healthy mind and be able to laugh and do different things. I was robbed of that. So I had no choices when I was unhealthy. And then again, if we're in this life alone, if we want to choose to experience love and that type of thing, that there's just so much richness that comes with choosing love. But we have to choose love. There's nothing more. Takes more courage. You won't face any more fear than when you walk the path of love and look at it and call it out. So really to close that is that wellness and freedom is choice. And choice lives in all these different categories.

And there's no control over the love, right? I mean, you can pursue money and attain it. You can pursue health and attain it. You can't pursue love. You have to give love. You're just like, fuck, here it is. Hope this works. Oh, my God. I don't have any control over whether or not that comes back back to me. I don't have any control over whether I feel. I have control over where I feel rejected. But that's really linguistic, right? Because it's like it is rejection. And if somebody doesn't want my love, then I Want that person to share my love. That's vulnerable, man. That, like, you talk about fear, and I can get really aggressive and work harder for money. And I can get really aggressive and angry. No, I get really. Work really hard and get aggressive and get serious and motivated about love. I'm not going to have any love. So it's the most vulnerable aspect of being human, but that's why it's also the most rewarding.

You guys, thank you for this exploration, this trifecta. Health, wealth, relationships. This is kind of why we're here, is to learn how to do these categories really well.

It is. I think it's the journey of life. It's why we're here.

Tell us where we can go to this event and also say who this event's really for, you know, because I know it's not for everyone, but if people want to go, like, who are they that want to go?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's anybody that's listening to this conversation, it's like, I want to be there and have these conversations.

Do they have to be an entrepreneur, though, or do they have to have entrepreneur tendencies?

No, not necessarily. It's just those that want to be in this conversation and actually want to have a conversation about money and how do we get good at it? All right, let's have a conversation about health and how do we get good at it? And let's have a conversation about love and vulnerability and how the hell do we get good at it? And again, just.

And it's not even an expensive event. I mean, it's dirt cheap.

Yeah. And it's just leaving.

And plus, Austin's beautiful, you guys.

Yeah. And I mean, look it.

Hello.

We have it here at the house.

I can't wait for everything.

And you're doing some breath work.

Yes, I'm going to do breath work. I can't wait for.

And everybody here has something to contribute, too. That's why, like, Josh, would you do some breath work? So. And so would you do a little yoga? Like, nobody here is speaking down to anyone else. There's no gurus. There's no one. We bring people in to have conversations. Kirk's bringing in some of his seal buddies because we're going to talk about this thing called fear and love, and we're going to just break these things down. But again, we're just leaving our superhero costumes at the door. So those of us, you know, we're living big lives. We're doing great work. We're this and this. We just need to have our own little secret society in a way to have these conversations.

This is the true definition of a mastermind. I remember reading Think and Grow Rich and he's like a mastermind can be two people as long as the intention's pure. So thank you for what you're doing. The website is W E A L T H Y W E L L T H Y wealthywealthy Life wealthywealthy Life events if you want to learn about it. Christina Kirk, thank you for having me at your house. Thanks for the conversation.

Thank you, thank you.

It's good fun.

This is fun.

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Okay.

Now you get to go out into your world and live your life well. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.