274 Mike Salemi | The Journey To Strength 💪☯

Honestly, it's an honor. It's a pleasure. So thank you.

You've been in the game for, like, I want to say 18. 19 is when you started, right?

Yeah, probably like, 15, but for sure, like, 18. Like, that's when I, like, really started coaching a collegiate level.

What were you doing at 15?

15 is when I was competitive in powerlifting, and I was coaching and pretty much all the power lifters in my gym, so I was a programming for them. And then 15, 16, I was running the strength and conditioning program at my high school. So, yeah.

Yeah.

The teacher with the basketball coach would leave the room, and he's like, dude, I'm gonna put you in charge. You seem to really enjoy it. I was like, fuck, yeah. Let's go.

Well, I look at a guy like you online, and the Bulgarian bag, the kettlebells, the fluid movements, like, you take people through this physical journey. But what I was so excited to talk with you about is the way that you take them through the physical journey, through the understanding of the emotional journey. And you've been. We're gonna talk about Sultara. We're gonna talk about your plant medicine experiences. Um, but for people that don't know you, man, like, who is Mike Salemi? Who is Mike Salemi in 2019 today? Because that changes all the time. But who are you in this moment?

You know, it's interesting. So right now, I was sharing with you earlier about how, like, right now the pain teacher's kind of been paying. Paying me a visit, because I've been really, you know, I've been loving what I've been doing, traveling and teaching and sharing what it is I love so much. And, you know, it wasn't always that way, because I was sharing, like, when I was 15, I was. I was coaching even. 18 is when I really started getting more and more involved in it. But when the economy crashed. So we're both Sicilian as we were talking earlier. So family culture is a huge, huge thing with us, right? Well, my family owns a marble and granite business. And I remember, you know, that was the business that pretty much funded my. My high school, my college. And, you know, there's that huge. Even from kids. I was licking envelopes and going to work and unloading trucks for my dad, and. And so we manufacture marble and granite tools. And so when the economy crashed, I went into the family business to. To support and to kind of help on the marketing side and build it back up. But it was definitely not my calling, and I knew it never was. And I was still coaching on the side. But that was an eight year journey. You know, it was supposed to be kind of a two year process. Then two turned to three, three turned into four. And, you know, it was just an emotional roller coaster. Like, I can totally, totally relate to people who are not happy with what they're doing in their life or work. And, you know, that, you know, for a lot on it, to be honest, you know, for the longest time, like, even when I was on podcast before, it's only been recently that I've been coming out and sharing that part of my life because I've always thought like, you know, what are people going to think if I share, you know, this part of my life? And, but it's really made me who I am because for those, for those eight years and having to work through kind of that emotional roller coaster, one, I've really, I have such, such, such a deep, deep level of appreciation and gratitude for being able to do what I'm doing right now. When I turned 30 was a huge transition point for me. And when I turned 30, which is about two years ago, you know, at the time I was pretty unhappy in the family business and I was looking at my life in a crystal ball and I was just like, if I'm in the same place that I'm at next year or next week or next month, what's going to happen? And it was just a visceral feeling. I didn't even need to answer it verbally. And it was just like, I'm going to get sick. And so from that moment and even throughout that whole experience, I always told myself, when the day comes that it's time for me to spread my wings and fly and do what I want to do once, once I'm, once I have the courage enough to do that and follow my own path, I'm going to take every opportunity I can and I'm just going to do it full, full, full force. And so two years, the last two years has been a constant journey, process, learning, and, and so I try and take advantage of every opportunity possible. But also, you know, sometimes we got to be mindful and just remind ourselves that we, we're only human and we can only, can only do so much.

This is the classic burnout where the, the coach, the healer, the therapist, the trainer, the person who's helping other people constantly gets nuances around where their edge of service to themselves actually deserves more attention. In other words, the person who's making other people healthy struggles with their own health. And, and that was my story too. What was like a low point? Did you have a low point when you were helping other people? Or is that low point pretty recent as far as the way you feel in your body?

I would say probably pretty recent. Pretty recent when it comes to helping other people. I definitely had low points in different respects in the family business. But low points in terms of helping other people, it's just been, you know, it's pretty much now like I'm getting just like in athletics, like you learn your threshold, right? Like, balance is not something static. I think that's a really important concept. Balance is dynamic. Balance is this oscillation between feast and famine and being aware of all the nuances in between and being able to modify and adjust and go with the flow. And so for me, I feel like I've been, I've been learning, learning. Where's my balance? I mean, even when I first started teaching, like my first time teaching a two full day course, I actually on the day one, I went back to the hotel and I was a zombie. I was like, there's no way I can come back and bring it and support these students. But then I realized and had some of my buddies, one buddy in particular, Je'daurt Pierre. I don't know if you, he's one of Paul's faculty. Amazing, amazing human, beautiful person. And he told me, don't worry man, it's just like a muscle. He's like, once you teach a little bit more, you'll strengthen that muscle. And now I can teach multiple, multiple days in a row and be okay. But also I got to remember, you know, now it's almost like a ratio. I know If I teach one to two days, like I need a solid 72 hours before anything, you know, comes up. If I teach four days, I need like a solid week. So I'm learning, I'm learning as I'm going. But it is very recent.

The holistic lifestyle coaching that you've gotten through the Czech Institute, what came before that? Like, what even brought you to check?

What brought me to check was When I was 18, I was a strength and conditioning coach. And fortunate enough, I was a strength and conditioning coach at a holistic lifestyle center. And it was actually like the OG center of the Bay Area. And the person, his name was Brian Shamp, or is Brian Shamp. And pretty much, you know, he was, I think, the first main Czech practitioner in the Bay Area. And the whole facility was modeled after Paul's teaching. So it was all high level check practitioners there. And so I started there training the Owner in powerlifting. So he wanted to learn powerlifting. And in exchange, at that time I was, I was so focused in that sport. And so in exchange he helped me with my diet, nutrition lab testing, etc. And so that's how I first got involved and he gifted me how to eat, move and be healthy.

What year was that?

18. So we're looking at 32, 14 years ago. Yeah, 14, 15 years ago, something like that.

Yeah. 2004. Ish.

Yeah.

Yeah. Back in the day, this is when I kind of started my journey as a trainer as well. At that time, the Internet wasn't so prevalent like it is now. I remember going on YouTube 2005, 2006, and it was hard to find info. What, what do you feel like about you allowed you to find the right information.

Starting then mentors, you know, I think, I think trusting mentors and, and you know, with, you know, at that time too, when I was powerlifting, talk, talk about like old school, like when I was in my powerlifting gym, which was a very close knit basement powerlifting team. They're the ones who told me about Louis Simmons. And so when I was studying Louis Simmons, I have, I don't know about now because I haven't been powerlifting, you know, in quite some years. But at that time when I was so dialed in and into it, you know, I have every VHS that Louis like ever produced, ever produced and so. And some of them didn't even work, I remember and just like, oh, I've that I've got stacks like a whole closet full and. But I was great, you know, powerlifting. I had some great mentors. People took me under their wing. Brian was just, you know, huge and instrumental and pointing me to the direction of Paul and opening my mind. So having good mentors in the strength and conditioning realm as well in that lifestyle coaching realm was huge.

Do you find that sometimes there can be a narrative in S and C where people have lots of tattoos, lots of beards, they're pulling heavy weight, they're yelling, they're screaming. Do you feel like that's kind of off putting to people that want to get stronger?

You know, I don't know. Like, I think I. For sure there's an intimidation factor, for sure. Like, I remember I was at Westside for a month when I was 18, 19, just.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with tattoos and beards. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I just think it's a certain energy.

Yeah, yeah. And, and that was a lot of the guys at Westside were all tatted up and stuff and. But they were honestly like nothing as we know. Like, they don't. Tattoos don't really mean much. Yeah, right. But they're great people. So I think on the, on the outside it can be intimidating. But, you know, I've. I've never really spent much time in commercial gyms or anything until more recently teaching my. I almost feel like I was. I was very sheltered in the sense, like I was with my team in a basement and like, we train there all the time. And in Olympic lifting, I was working out in another basement. And then in kettlebell sport, I work out in my garage. So I've kind of been sheltered in that respect when it comes to my own training. So for me, it wasn't. Wasn't a big thing that I was exposed to, to be honest.

So for you, the whole life, 18 plus years has been somewhat of the barbell making you stronger physically. But what about the emotional? Because the barbell can teach so many lessons emotionally about, you know, delayed gratification, overcoming internal boundaries. What does the barbell teach you in the emotional aspect?

Well, I think like I first gravitated towards the barbell. You know, as soon as I touched a barbell, there was something about it and it was undescribed. I think a lot of our paths is, you know, we can try and put it into words and why we do what we do, but I feel like there's certain things that are just undescribable with words, like a calling something. And so I could say that I, you know, I love the objective measures of progress. I love the community about it. But there was also something that I just can't explain that just drew me energetically to that type of implement or that set of implements. Yeah. So I think it was, you know, an unexplainable part as well.

Yeah, it's just like, almost like an energetic match for you. And I think people, when they first start strength training, you get a lot of first timers, I'm sure, that want to sign up for your online programs or maybe they're coming to a seminar. Are seminars just for the trainers and coaches or do you coach people who are just beginning their strength journey?

Well, I love beginners, absolutely do. Like I was just teaching in. In San Antonio to. At the Northwest Vista College and all the students there. It's a kinesiology program and personal training program. And it was so cool. Like, I asked everyone, okay, who has any kettlebell experience? The first workshop was kettlebell. Second workshop was Bulgarian Bags. And it was so cool that literally, out of almost 40 people, three kids raised their hand that they had kettlebell experience. And those three, it wasn't formal experience. They've just used it. And I'm just like, geeking out and just like, my heart's just dancing because I'm just like, wow, I get to that. That's such a treat for me because I get to support you and share the lessons that I've learned, the mistakes. And again, like, what started for me as objective measurements of progress, you know, every time I would compete, every time I was trained, I was building confidence. I was building emotional resiliency. I was learning what failure was or what the illusion of failure was. I was learning what successes were. I was. There's so much learning and emotional strengthening at every level of that process. And when I think about it, too, it's like, if not, for example, some of the biggest painful times in my life around strength and conditioning, especially injuries, one in particular to my left arm and kettlebell sport. I would never have worked with Paul. You know, Paul, check that. That was the reason I sought him out. I exhausted every other practitioner I could, and no one could really solve the root cause. And so what first started as trying to solve an orthopedic issue. Like, as you know, you just interviewed Paul and you've interviewed him before. Like, he does not just focus on the physical side.

Yeah. The assessment goes deep.

The assessment goes deep. And so I think that was also a big draw for me, as. And I think in the beginning, it wasn't so conscious, but as I started doing a little bit more inner work over the years, one of the things I've really realized is what draws me to, like, greater. Greater physical goals or, like, trying to see what my potential is.

Yeah.

Is also because in a holistic system, if the physical goal rises, so does the emotional, so does the spiritual, so does. So that whole thing has to rise in order to do it in an integrated manner. And so I've always known that, like, the more I can test myself and put myself through uncomfortable situations, the more I'm going to be a better coach, the more I'm going to be a better friend, the more I'm going to be able to have empathy for my clients. So for me, it started more physical. But then I think the journeys and the lessons over the years has been like, it's all integrated.

I can't wait to get to the point in our conversation where we actually talk about what led you to Sultara. But before we get there, there's a deeper story around this resiliency factor that you've been talking about. Like the barbell teaches you certain things, strength teaches you certain things. Your injury brought you to Paul. What is it about the resilience of Mike Salemi? Like, why is he resilient? And what does emotional resilience mean to him?

So for me, like part of the word resiliency, at least how I would experience it is also like resiliency, discipline and stuff like that. And I think growing up, you know, I'm. I wouldn't have had the awareness, honestly until recently, some of the inner work I've done to see how similar I am to my father. And so growing up, you know, my father pretty much had. He was running family businesses his whole life, supporting most of his family. And as a child, like I observed that, like it wasn't anything that needed to be spoken. But I remember seeing my dad, you know, working his tail off and then always putting forth effort and always putting, you know, food on the table. And so I think just being in that environment and observing that, I definitely feel like looking back, I'm like, wow, like so much of that was a teacher for me and so much of his energy, I think has spilled over into me. And so persevering, not giving up, being fucking clear on what you want and not stopping and, and just knowing that like I'm all. I think I'm also quite hard on myself. And that's also a lesson. And I think there's beauty and there's also challenges with that. Yeah, because I've really realized through especially some of the medicine work, it's like, you know, sometimes our greatest gifts are our weaknesses. And so me being very disciplined and very resilient and very sometimes hard on myself has one allowed me to reach a higher level of athletic achievement? But in the same light, it's like, man, I should really also. I would like to sometimes be a little more gentle with myself.

I love that you just corrected should to like, yeah, that was powerful, dude. No, I've been, I've been talking to all my friends and just recently just feeling this concept of language, like the way that you describe the connection to your father and then you self corrected yourself. This unfolding resiliency, it comes up in language, it comes up in emotions. But there is, there is something that I sense about you where you still have this playfulness and light heartedness to you, but you're also like a super badass Bulgarian bag swinging kettlebell swinging master instructor that travels the world. How do you do that, dude?

Well, the playful side of things. You know, it's funny because, like, right now, I've taken a year off competing, so I've taken, like, I did my. One of my last competitions, and I was like. Even though I was enjoying it for sure, like, I hit a point where I was like. I asked myself, why am I doing what I'm doing? I want to take a break. I want to share. So right now, I'm having the most fun I've ever had because the main focus is play. Like, I totally, totally lose complete track of time when I'm using the bag, the ball, and then also the kettlebell. Like, literally, the clock sometimes will be two to three hours, and I just. I'm coming up with different combinations, and it's. It's. For me, movement is play right now. And I think that's also what's in. Reinvigorated me, and I love sharing that because I feel like, especially from. From sports and athletics, it's so much. You know, I. I do enjoy competing, and I do enjoy being competitive, but I feel like if you can marry that playfulness with that positive competitiveness, it's just something that. That I would love people to experience. And so right now, it's. It's.

It's.

It's just play. Like, literally, when I'm teaching, I'm playing, and when. When I'm seeing other students smile, like, that is so gratifying. And I'm kind of like, helping them, teaching them cues, giving them support, but I want them to have their own experience.

And.

And. Yeah, go ahead.

Oh, no, I was just feeling into this. I was seeing a child's face when you're talking, and then I was seeing an adult. And I think for the children, it's play is, like, natural. It's just this innate thing that they all do. So whether or not an adult's done their inner work to connect with their inner child, that's probably the degree to which they're going to have play in their life. Have you developed in your training and especially in your online programs how you get people stoked as adults on play? How do you get adults stoked on play with all their distractions?

Well, like in the program. Well, the Mastering the Kettlebell program, which was my first program that I just came out with. I mean, that one, honestly, is super in depth. That one's more for the trainer, for the coach, or for the. I do have, like, people into general fitness who purchase it but they're just the people who really are motivated, excited, and don't want to get injured. It's almost like three certifications in one. But what I will say is, with that knowledge, with that knowledge of it only takes one kettlebell, there's 10 movements, over 500 videos with instruction, with that knowledge, you can really, really do whatever you want with the kettlebell. And one of the things that I see just personally as a coach out there is, you know, don't get me wrong, like, I think movement flows and kettlebell flows are great.

Yeah.

But, you know, the coach in me sometimes cringes because it's like, you know, there is a level of prereqs. You need to work with some of this stuff, like the kettlebell, you know, slightly different than the Bulgarian bag in the sense. Like the Bulgarian bag's soft, right? The Bulgarian bags, if you throw it.

On your foot, it's a little forgiving.

Yeah. And it's typically like, I've been using it for 10 years and I'm still using £26, so it's not a super heavy load. Kettlebells, if I'm competing with double 40s, double 40 kilo bell, so 88 pounds in each hand or I'm doing crazy stuff, it's like the risk is a little bit higher. So. But I will say, once someone has the technical knowledge and the technical skill, then that's when you can really start doing some cool stuff. But also in that program, there's. Paul was kind enough to do, I think, eight lectures on working in. And so it's super important to me that we marry to create more balanced athlete, balanced coaches and just balance people in the world that they have the knowledge, awareness and understanding of exactly what is working in exercises and how can we utilize those to support the working in and the energy expenditures that we're doing from training. So working in for me is also play. Working in is unstructured, unstructured, unbound play, unbound movement.

What's your favorite way of working in?

Well, okay, so right now, let's see, let's see. Let me, let me, Let me sit with this. I would have said for the longest time, breathing squats.

Breathing squats. Pretty nice.

Breathing squats is nice.

Gets you in tune, gets you grounded.

You know what I really enjoyed is rattling. Oh, rattling. So whether it's carrying a rattle and doing various work and movements, it could be squatting, could be whatever, or just simply just jumping in place. That's been honestly, just, just recently. Just an. Honestly, the last few Weeks. Yeah, I've been incorporating that.

That's really cool. I've been doing the trampoline, the fitness trampoline for work breaks.

Okay.

And it gets my lymphatic system flushing, it gets my body moving and it's something. Think about what we were talking about earlier. It's something a kid would do. And we're here at this conference. There's a lot of neck up conversations that are going to happen, like technical, you know, breaking down periodization and understanding movement programming and all that's really important. But like, so's the other side as to why the hell we're doing it in the first place. Like what actually makes you serve the people you serve?

I think there's a deep, deep passion to hopefully not have people make such the mistakes that I made in strength and conditioning. Like, you know, I've gone through injuries, I've gone through fungal and parasite issues. And so I really feel like, you know, almost out of gratitude for the coaches that I've had because even though I've gone through a lot of, you know, they've also poured their wisdom in me and I've avoided their mistakes or a lot of them at least. And so I really, really, really want to support a new wave of trainers, of coaches who have this holistic mindset and can avoid a lot of the injuries and mistakes that I've made over the years. So I think that that is, that is a big calling. Like strength and conditioning for me is, yes, absolutely important. But if I were to pick like why I'm here, it's truly, truly to share, support and inspire athletes and coaches to realize not only their truest potential in sport, but, but when they leave sport so that they have some type of healthy living philosophy. So it just doesn't end with competition that they've learned about themselves and they can carry hopefully some type of sustainable lifestyle practice moving forward.

Yeah, and a lot of this stems around injury prevention, like the smart way of training. Because I think, let's be real, most people, they start, they'll do like the treadmill, the StairMaster, they'll just do something to get moving. And you know, by God, that's great. I mean, I'm stoked that they're doing it, but there's a smarter way that'll actually reduce injury later on, especially with learning from your own injury. How do people begin that journey? You know, the movement journey, the health journey with injury prevention as a mindset. I mean, that's a totally different approach.

Well, you know, with injury, I think A lot of people today, and I'm speaking also from personal experience, it's like injury is, you know, it sucks. Don't get me wrong. And actually, you know, the unfortunate thing about injury is, like, one reason why I'm really passionate about helping people prevent injury, because especially as an athlete, like, as an athlete, you have a dream or just a high performer in general, it doesn't have to be an athlete. You know, I think, you know, whether you're in business or whatever, you have a goal or a dream. And so you're training, training, training. If you have an injury, you're stopped in your developmental progression. And for me, the worst feeling in the world is being stuck. Like, that is the worst feeling in the world. And so I also think, though, like, there's so much power in injuries, so I think hopefully avoiding as many of us as we can. But the lessons that we learn from these pain teachers and from these injury teachers, I also feel like are huge lessons, and we're meant to learn them in our own time.

Last year, I pulled my calf muscle, tore it, and then proceeded to three months later, go up Mount Whitney and then almost died on Mount Whitney. So I've had two massive pain teachers for me recently. And honestly, I feel like getting. Getting stabbed with adversity, getting stabbed with that is honestly what allows me to bleed. The gratitude, like, it's what. It's what allows me to feel grateful that I'm still here. Like, we made it. We're still here. Like, we're on the couch right now sharing messages and energies with different people across the world. Like, this is a blessing. Yet if we didn't go through the injuries and the tragedies, for some people, would the sweet be just as sweet?

I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I don't think so at all. I don't think so. And even, like, my experiences I was sharing with my family business. Now, granted, like, it wasn't definitely was a hard time in my life, but would I change it? Fuck no. Like, no way.

No way.

And even recently, so I broke this. This toe here, the second toe here, and I broke it two days before I had to teach, like, two certs and across a week in California and New York. And I was thinking, like, you know, actually, my buddy Jator, who I was mentioning earlier, he was one of the first people, years ago, when, let's say, I had a niggle, like a tweak, or I was going through something, he was the first person to tell me when we would Hang out. You know, he'd be like, oh, what's going on? Michael was like, yeah, you know, my left shoulder is kind of, you know, bugging me. He's like, okay, like, what, are you not communicating with your mom? And it was like, at that time, I was just like, what are you talking about? But it was such a cool thing and a playful way to look at whether it doesn't have to be an injury. Could be a tightness, could be a restriction, could be, you know, you get out of bed and you're always cracking your neck or something like that. So by no means does it have to be an injury. But I think that also there's a bunch of not only lessons within that, but playfulness. And so for me, the foot, I was like, okay, I need my feet to travel. I need my feet to work. These are what carry me around everywhere I go. This is what allows me to do what I do. And it's been so crazy to me that just breaking one toe every step, I took a shot of pain and a shot of pain, and there was no way I was going to cancel my workshops or my certs because people had paid. And I feel like I have a responsibility to them, and I love what I do, and I want to support them.

Yeah.

And so I went through them, and to be honest, like, I went into them with. In quite good physical shape. But the. The biggest challenge for me was it was almost like a meditative practice during the teaching. And I've reflected on this a lot lately. I was like, the hardest thing for me was feeling the pain of my foot on every step, on every Bulgarian backspin, on every kettlebell swing, but also feeling into that, but also knowing and trying to stay present with the students. And that was a spiritual practice. I was like, I need to kind of block out this pain, you know, deal with it. But also I need to deliver a great experience, and I need to be able to feel into the audience. I can't. I can't just go off of a script. I won't do that. I need to feel when I'm losing them or if they're paying attention or when they're struggling. And so for me, I remember being quite exhausted at the end of the day, but I'm so grateful for the experience because one, it showed me I need to slow down a little bit. I need to enjoy what I'm. I need to enjoy the lessons after these trips as opposed to stacking them back to back. But also, I was like, wow. Like, to be able to do that and to give a good experience and to see them having a great experience and learning and going through that process. I was like, that was pretty cool. That was a pretty good learning lesson for me.

I loved how you said it's a spiritual experience because what is, what is more spiritual than pain? Teaching you something? And that goes for people that have cancer or people that have late onset diseases in life due to lifestyle factors. All these things stack up. And it brings me to this point where I'm feeling into your journey like you're 32 now.

Yeah, yeah.

So at 32, like you're pretty woke for 32. What, what about you makes you go towards the spiritual path and the physical path?

I think just a calling. Just, just it's, it's something that's undescribable. And I think I've gotten so much out of the spiritual work especially, you know, I feel blessed, you know, having been working with Paul. You know, Paul was my coach for two and a half years where pretty much every single month I would fly down for one to two days. We would do coaching on, you know, the physical stuff to help support me for competition, rehabilitate my injury, but also we would do spiritual work as well, or inner work. And you know, during that time he was, you know, the first person to take me through because he's, you know, he is a licensed shaman. He would, he took me through my first medicine experience and that was such a profound experience because, you know, it didn't happen. When we first started coaching, you know, we did a lot of work together, a lot of self management, a lot of making sure, you know, my diet was on point, a lot of making sure that, you know what, my kind of my self talk was good, my training was sound, but it really took two years before he felt that I was in a place where I could really do some good medicine work and not have it shake me up in a bad way. And so looking back, I am so, so, so grateful for that because I have so much more reverence. Not more reverence. I, it, I have reverence so much for the medicine. Because to be honest, up until that point, like in high school, like, I never smoked weed. Never, you know, I would drink outside of competitions, high school, college. But you know, I think for three years in college didn't drink at all because I always saw it as a deterrent. You know, we, I always saw people, I was like, okay, if that's where the pack is going, I'm going the other direction. I don't Want anything to do with that. So I didn't quite have a very good experience with just plant medicines in general. Mainly just pot. But then when I saw how Paul was using it.

Yeah.

In therapy and how sacred it was and the preparation before, during and after. It's just given me such a different level of appreciation for just plant medicines in general. And so I think that's what really working with Paul was a huge thing. And then some of the introduction of the plant medicines.

What was it in the two years you worked with him that you actually either had to let go of or get a deeper understanding of before you both felt like it was time to go into the medicine? Because I think a lot of people are listening and we've done a lot of shows. Very deep dive, especially with Paul, very, very, very deep dive into medicine. What did you either let go of or get a deeper understanding of in that two year period?

I think, I think it was just, you know, being around him so much and just seeing the type of work especially. So he does a lot of art therapy as well.

So he said you painted a crazy wolf.

Oh, he told you about.

Yeah, he's like, you gotta see Mike's wolf, dude.

I don't think, I think at that time, like I maybe, maybe I painted like in middle school or elementary school. So I'm not a painter. I wouldn't consider myself like have like an art skill or talent for art whatsoever.

Wolf just came through you?

It was wild. Yes, that's just, that's just what came through me. So I think just spending enough time and being around that space and just again, the athletic journey was so tight. So I don't think it was any one thing. I think it was every competition, every training cycle. The, the cool thing with Paul is so the way he worked with me was so I'd go down once a month, but in that time there's so many things that happen. Right. So what we would do is I would fill out his four doctor form, which is essentially a check in on Dr. Karl, Quiet, Dr. Movement, Dr. Happiness and Dr. Diet. But then I'd also every single day fill out what he calls a daily readiness assessment. And so it's checking for limbic emotional stress, it's checking for hormonal stress, and it's checking for musculoskeletal system stress. And on top of that I was also recording my training and my reflections on what was going on in life. And so he could check. It was on a Google Doc sheet. And so he could check in every Single day and give me feedback and see what was going on. So it's almost like it wasn't like a. Once a month I would see Paul and we'd have this big intervention. You know what I'm saying? It was like he had his hand on the pulse so much during the whole time. So if I was in a relationship challenge or there was something that was going on at home, it was kind of just like constant support, constant coaching. But actually, in two years, what was really the catalyst was I achieved the. The ranking that I had been trying to achieve for multiple years, but couldn't due to an injury. And so I had achieved it. It's called Master of Sport and Kettlebell Sport. And he wanted to celebrate it. And so we celebrated with the journey, and we celebrated with the. With the artwork. And so it was more of a celebration of. Of really all. Everything we did together. Because, you know, I think, you know, that achievement was, yes, it was me putting in the work, but it was also, you know, having his support. So it's not just, you know, I think all great things are not achieved by one person. Like, there's always a. A community or someone, you know, even. Even if it's people that you wouldn't even think, like the person who makes the kettlebells, you know, it's like that person put their love, sweat and tears and making that product.

Yeah.

So I think we all come together, and so it was really a celebration.

What's one of the biggest takeaways from ceremony? You got that first ceremony.

I think that one man, if I think back, that was a few years ago.

It's interesting to reflect, isn't it?

It is. I'm like.

I remember this going through so many different things, and I love that you asked me that.

I love that you asked me. I remember it being so peaceful, and I think just. Just enjoying the process. It's interesting because I never really. As crazy as it sounds, I never really had the concept of what a process goal was until I work with Paul. It was always like, competition didn't hit it. In some senses, you're a failure. Competition, train competition. If you don't. If you hit it, great, your success, you mean something. You. You have validation. And so he really started reformulating my ideas and my thought process about having process goals and enjoying more of the process. And I just. I just have this vision of, like, when we were painting and stuff like that, like looking outside. Outside of his Escondido house.

Yes.

And I just. Just like this huge amount of fulfillment and enjoyment around the process is what comes up right now.

Yeah, the process is. The process is the process.

Like that's.

That's the whole gem and the journey, isn't it? The process, the uncovering is actually the thing itself. Like the. You know, the. The hero's journey with Gilgamesh coming back and the snake that stole the treasure. And then he came back and he was like, I don't have the treasure, but I have the story, and the story is the treasure. So you're reminding me about this process goal. The process is actually the treasure. Like, even the challenges of being in a ceremony and the joy, they're actually both the gift. They're this illustrious, beautiful gift. But, man, they sure as hell don't feel like it, do they?

Not all the time. There's definitely those blissful ones, but then there's definitely those ones that just like, take you and just ring you and ring you. And then when you think you're totally wrong, and then they ring you more.

Yes.

Yeah.

So then what motivates you to walk this medicine path? And how does that look for you? Because it's a topic that I think is really important. The frequency, the intentionality, the directionality of someone like you as a leader. People are looking to you for advice, they're looking to you for guidance. How do you speak to them about your own path as far as frequency and intentionality with medicine now, I think.

What really connects me to it is I'm always looking to achieve my own highest potential, whatever that looks like for me. And I feel like, not only from the physical side, but, like, how much fulfillment and joy and understanding of my own patterns and what I like, I get that out of medicine. So much understanding of the. The things that I wasn't even aware of before. And so I think it's just. For me, it's tied into human potential. I think that's. That's one of the biggest things. And understanding myself at a deeper level and what that looks like for me, like, right now, you know, I'm gonna. I've gotten so much out of the plant medicines that. Well, this one isn't a plant medicine, but it supports them quite well. Are you familiar with combo?

Yes. Y. Yeah, I haven't gone down the combo road yet.

I've got.

People talk about this.

I've gotten so, so, so much out of that. For the listeners who aren't familiar, it's not psychoactive. Combo is essentially. It comes from the secretion of a tree frog in the Amazon, and it's A large tree frog. And the secretion in the frog is called sapo. And so traditionally the way that they would use this medicine is it's, it's actually quite short. The experience only lasts like 20 to 40 minutes. And so what they do is the, the shamans actually will call out or the, the practitioners will call out to the, to the frogs in the tree and they'll actually sing to the frog. And then the frogs will come down and they'll tie them. They don't hurt the frogs, but they tie their hands and their feet and then they just kind of like agitate their.

Have you seen, have you seen the frogs come down?

I haven't seen the frogs. I do want to go because I'd.

Like to see that. That'd be cool.

But they take that secretion, put it on a resin stick, and then traditionally men start on the left shoulder, females on the inside of the right leg. And they apply the secretion. Now the secretion they apply to the skin because they by, they burn little holes, usually with incense in the skin to open it up, open up the gates, they call them. And so the secretion or the venomous secretion passes into the lymphatic system. And it's an incredible cleansing agent, both physically, mental, emotionally and spiritually. And so it can not only super activate the immune system, but it can also clear negative energy and blockages. And I've used it myself just by, I'm sorry, by itself, but also pre ceremonies to kind of set the tone and clear some of that out.

What's the physiology of Combo? Like what's going on from like a action potential thing inside of the physiology? Do you know about that?

Yeah, a little bit. So essentially the most of the research that comes from Combo or the initial research was started by a guy, if I recall his name, it's Vittorio Esparmer, It's Italian guy. So he was an Italian pharmacologist who also discovered serotonin. And so this guy discovered that. So Combo contains dozens of bioactive peptides. So peptides are just short chains of amino acids. Bioactive essentially is just. They carry an affinity and selectivity for specific receptors in the body. So they bind to these receptors and essentially they can help kind of like reset neurotransmitters. And essentially because it works through lymph, what happens during combo is there's a lot of purging that happens. So you typically drink a lot of water or in some tribes, like I've even, I've even heard that they'll drink Like a banana type smoothie, which sounds kind of nice, but then, like, I was like, I probably wouldn't want that in a campus.

Not before I'm gonna throw it up.

So it's, it's. I mean, it's quite uncomfortable, the Combo ceremony, right. So it's like you could feel warm, you could. There can be swelling, your heart rate's going to elevate. You're going to be pretty. Pretty in an uncomfortable situation. But essentially what you're purging and what you're vomiting is this, like, deep bile, like, substance. And it's, it's. From my understanding, it's just like purging all the toxins of the body. And it's essentially like cleaning out at a cellular level, cellular waste.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think about Bruce Lipton. Issues in the tissues, right? Like the work that he's done on molecular biology, understanding at the deepest, like, electron transport. That's where the energy stored. It's stored in the powerhouses of the cells. It's stored in the deepest recesses of the actual tissue itself. So when I hear you talk about Combo and maybe the physiology, which I can do more research on, is the actual scrubbing and cleaning of that deepest part, to me it seems both crazy and also really interesting because we're only here in this physical body once. Like, there's only one Mike Salemi, there's only one Josh Trent. So why not use all the tools that are at our disposal to live this fullest potential, right? Even if it includes temporary discomfort.

Yeah. And it. And I would totally agree. And as you know, to answer your question even more earlier, I've gotten so much out of it from a personal level that I've really. You know, this is something that's been coming up for me in ceremonies, being called to actually be a Combo practitioner. And I've been really thinking about it the last two years.

Huh. Over.

Because I've been doing them Combo almost once every one to three months, something like that, for the last three years. And I've really been asking myself, is this something that I want to share? Does this feel right? What are my reasons for doing it?

Especially with your stature in S and C, like, who's this guy talking about combo?

Yeah. Right. You know, to be honest, like, even, even family members, you know, they've. They've mentioned, like, why are you talking about plant medicine?

And Colin and I were just talking with earlier today. It's like, our parents, they want the best for us, even if it means killing our dreams. Dude, it's like, yeah, that's real for all of us.

I would 100%. I can totally resonate with that. I feel so and so I really thought about that concept. I was like, is this really hurting my reputation and SNC or not? And then I realized, I came to the realization that I was like, this is the person who I'm becoming. This is the type of work that I want to do with people to help help them heal and achieve greater athletic potential. So what I, what I've shared with family and friends, it's like if it was not in alignment with the direction that I was going, if I just wanted to train someone in the gym, then maybe, yeah, I would hurt my reputation. But no, like I, this is, this is the work that I want to do. And so whether it's in, I'll do that training. A two week immersion training starting in October, I want to have. And I'm usually when I work with one on one, the few one on ones I do work with, it's usually like one to three day long experiences. We could do Eldoa stretches, we could do sauna works.

What's an Eldoa stretch?

Oh dude, I'm so excited right now that.

Yeah, what is that?

So an Aldoa stretch is essentially so Eldoa. It's, it's a French acronym, so when translated from French it stands for loads, which is a long ass word. But it's essentially longitudinal osteoarticular decoaptation stretching. And the stretching is slash strengthening. It's kind of interchangeable, but it was developed by a French osteopath named Dr. Givoyer. And essentially there's a specific eldo, a stretch or specific. Think of it like at a specific Eldoa posture for just about every single articulation, every single joint in the body. And so it's highly, highly precise and it works with the chains of fascia. So based off of the hand position, the eye position, the head position, you can get so precise and so specific that you can target L5, S1, T6, T7, wherever, C4, C5, and you can get a decouptation is essentially. You could think of it, it's kind of like a decompression, but it's actually more correctly said like a space opening effect. It's a very active, active. It's. It is.

Is this similar to yin yoga where there's the long holds and releases?

No.

This is nothing to do with holding positions.

No. So yin yoga in my experience is more passive, more longer. These are actually Only one minute long postures. And they are work like you are.

You're sweating.

You are like an Aldo workout. You are working because the goal is to integrate the nervous system into it so the body can record that specific open space. And you need to hold that posture. You need to, you need to put the fascial chains on tension for long enough and maintain the tension, which takes a high level of awareness to elicit the Aldo where you want it, but not only. So the cool thing about the Aldo is we can look at it from a physical perspective, but we can kind of also look at it from a spiritual perspective. And so the Aldo is if we're looking at like, I'll use it too before ceremonies to open up the heart. So if I'm doing, if I really want to focus on the mid, the mid spine region, so like the apex of the thoracic curve, which is right in the heart center, you know, T67, T7, T8, T8, T9. Doing some of those. Aldo is to truly open up that area. I've gotten so, so, so much from it. So from, from healing disc injuries, from circulation stuff, better joint mechanics. It's incredible from that side, but it is also just an incredible reset and opening of the body at the deepest level that I've felt from, from like a physical posture or something like that.

Wow. The word that I heard you say was reset. And that hit me because I've done yoga, I've done a lot of different trainings. And there's something so incredibly powerful about just laying with my chest open and putting my thoracic spine into extension and just being there. I mean, my neck, my throat, my scalenes, my pecs, my anterior delts, like just letting everything open up. We're such a forward flex culture, like steering wheel, phone, computer. Everything's flexion. Like it's about extending. Right. And this extension transfers into really getting people in their bodies so they can show up more powerfully for ceremonies.

I'm glad you mentioned that because, like, when I go to Salara in three weeks, we're taking a group down there. So myself, Connor Moore, who is the, the cool cat. Thank you, Connor, who's our mutual, mutual buddy who. Who kind of connected us. And then another good friend, Kirsten Asher, we're going down to take a group to.

I know Kirsten.

Yeah, dude, she's badass.

She's a great dancer. She.

She is a great dancer.

Yeah, she's a great dancer.

And so we're going down there and we will not have any involvement with medicine facilitation. But we are going to do our own little additions of what we love doing. So I'm going to teach a myofascial stretching and an Aldoa practice to help support people. Christian's going to teach. Christian's going to teach the dance. Then Connor's doing face painting, some fun playfulness exercises. So I'm so excited because I've never, to be honest, I've never really taught that in the medicine space. But I do feel, I'm excited to see. I'm curious, I'm curious and I'm excited to see how people take to it. But I do in my own practice, I've just known it's really helped me open up and bring fine tune awareness to these areas that, that I potentially didn't have the awareness of before.

You're expanding my mind in real time because. No, because I. I can conceptualize the healing and this is a great time to talk about Satara. I can conceptualize the healing because I have deep experience with rhythmia. I've heard a lot of great things about Sotara, a lot of beautiful things where people go there. They have tremendous experiences. And one thing that I think is really cool that you're doing is you're taking the space of doing sacred medicine work and you're stacking on kind of like the academia, the logical, like, hey, this is how your body works and this is how we'll get you prepared for ceremony. And that's something really unique. Like how did that come about?

You know, it's. It's just been. I think that that's where I've kind of taken the physical side into it. So just, just like I do. I started, Aldo is because I was like, I needed to get out of pain or not pain, but just like restriction. I was looking at it from an athletic achievement. And then I was going into a medicine ceremony in the week and I was like, I wonder how this would feel If I did L5S1 on the wall, which is like one of the biggest, like the classic Aldo that you can get an effect all up the spine as well. And I was like, wow, this feels awesome. And then from that personal experience, like, I think it'd be really cool to share this with other people. So that's really how it started was just like my own personal experience as an athlete and then carried it through.

Do you feel like you will be going to medicine once a quarter and then what do you think it's going to look like for you in the next Six months or so. Is it something where you do it once a three months, or is it something different than that first frequency?

You know what's interesting is like, for the longest time, I feel like it was kind of harder to come by, like medicine circles. Like, I didn't really know about May. I just probably wasn't aware of them. But I was like, I was like doing in a ceremonial setting. It was like, it was kind of hard to find them. But now, like, I, like, I'm fortunate enough just the community I'm in, like my ears to the ground. It's like, it's almost like if I wanted, there would be every weekend. And I'm like, wow, like, don't want that, but it's there, you know, so that. That's been an interesting reflection. But what it looks like for me now, to be honest, is it's not on a structured plan. I've tried to get less and less structured because I tend to be so much like methodical in my thinking and programming and everything that, like, it's kind of like when it feels right, you know? Fortunately, recently I lost a family member just, you know, a little over almost two weeks ago. And it was. It was a sad passing. And, you know, I was called the medicine. I was like, I'm gonna sit with it. And, you know, I did the medicine to connect and to feel and to see if I could help release some of that pain within myself and potentially within. Within the family member who passed. And it was a profound experience. It was really there. It wasn't so heavy, but it was really sad. There was a lot of sadness around it, a lot of crying, which I don't think I've cried yet in ceremonies. And there was just a lot of tears. And I'm not sure if they were fully mine or fairly his or what. But like, I'm still really reflecting on that. So I don't think I'll do a medicine ceremony for a little minute. When I feel called, I'll do it, but I don't really have a plan.

Well, I'm sorry for your loss.

Thank you, brother.

And I feel like it's a reminder for me now because we just got news that my mom has a kind of late stage kidney disease. So I'm seeing what's coming for her and I think the big part of life that why it makes PaleoFX and you and I being here so special, because when we're able to do what we want to do from that dream place, then when the tragedies and the hardships come up. I think it just makes it all worth it, you know, like this person you lost, and I don't know who it was. Is it too early to look for the lesson?

No, I think. I think there's definite lesson there. I think at least speaking for personal experience, I'm sure, you know, it's gonna. The lessons are gonna keep coming. Like, I think that's one thing I've realized with medicine. It's like it for the next weeks and months, it's gonna keep, keep like new layers. Yeah, it's gonna keep coming. But at least at the level right now, it's helped me be more aware of specific patterns that are also cycles in pretty much every male in my family. Father his father, brothers his father's father, father's father's father. And it's like one of the intentions also was to kind of like break some of those cycles. And so I've been really paying attention to how my interactions with the males in my family have been. And it's. There's been some incredible, incredible shifts that I never thought would happen as soon as the very next day after ceremony. So that's been a lesson. Like I'm. I'm still in awe that that is. That's possible. But like, the fact that we can. We can break cycles through some of this work has been like. Like a realization and a lesson for me.

The connection that you have to Sultara now is that something where they have plans to grow the size or do they want to keep it kind of small?

From my understanding, I think they do want to keep it small. The Maloka is. It only fits. I don't quote me, but between potentially maybe like 30ish. Maybe give. Maybe it's 25, maybe it's 35. I'm not quite sure.

Yeah.

But beds in there and it's a beautiful space. I don't foresee them growing out of that space. It's pretty. Pretty intimate. When I went last time, I think there was like maybe 14 or so. 14 to 15 of us there. So it's quite small. There were two healers, and there was. On top of that, there was probably like four, five or so facilitators. So I felt incredibly supported. Incredibly supported. And like, I really can't speak highly enough about them on so many levels.

I've heard amazing things, and it's coming up at a good time for me because there's this concept that I feel like we're in this capitalistic society and on the other side of it, we're spiritual beings having a human experience.

So on.

On the left side, it's like, we all need to make money, and that's how the world turns. And there's so many people waking it up right now. Consciousness is on this exponential curve, like the hockey stick. No matter if it's in the SNC world or in the paleo world, most people, they have a different look at life now. Yeah, there's going to be pockets in America and in the world that maybe they'll never actually wake up. And that's fine. That's part of the process. But this contrast I'm making is there's no competition when it comes to the medicine. Like, whether it's rythmia or satara or any place. Let's hope there's thousands of plant medicine facilities across the world as soon as possible. What do you think about this, this play between capitalism and money and actually healing people when it comes to the medicine?

Well, I think, like, the more that money's involved, the more potential there is for things to go kind of astray. And so I think, like, there's an. Like, it has a lot to do, I think, with the owners and the people who are involved in it. Like, you know, my experience, I don't have too much experience with different, you know, centers and stuff like that. So, you know, that's potentially limited in my understanding, but also, like, I've been really fortunate. And so from my understanding, Dan, like the owner of Saltara, he had a center in Peru, but then wasn't really too thrilled with the situation in Peru for a number of reasons, and then wanted to start something fresh in the way that he wanted to start it. And so I think I would totally agree with you in the sense, like, I think it would be great to have many more places like plant medicine centers around the world.

Yeah.

But I also would say, like, I think the more that that happens, just like anything else, like, the more kettlebell practitioners there are in the world, the more personal trainers, there's gonna be a lot of shitty ones and a lot of people who are in it for the money and not necessarily for the deep, sacred healing work to support people.

Damn right. Yeah. And that's why they get to trust people like you and me that are actually going to the places and vetting them spiritually, emotionally, and physically. Because it's the wild, wild west right now when it comes to any type of medicine journey, even combo.

Yeah.

You know, anybody can go online right now and be like, I'm a. I'm A shaman. You're not a shaman. You just have an Instagram account and you wear, like, flowy white robes and you live in Topanga. You're not actually a shaman. You know, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I see it more and more. Yeah, I'm not a fan of it. You know, I think, you know, what I've learned from Paul is just holding everything in a sacred space. So, yeah, I'm not. Not a fan. It. It, it irks me, for sure. Yeah. And I think it kind of dilutes and, and, and doesn't show respect for the medicine. So, yeah, that pisses me off for sure. But at the same time, it's like everyone's on their journey. And, you know, I understand that people need to make money and stuff like that, but I do feel when you're dealing with teacher plants and, and things that can be so powerful and profound in both a positive and a negative way, you're. You're. You're messing with fire.

In two weeks, I'm going to this. Consciousness hacking. Mikey Siegel is the founder of this movement, and they combine psychedelics, technology, and meditation. And they do it in a conference format, which is profound, man. I'll share details with you.

Yeah, please.

I think you'd be interested, and I know everyone here is interested, because the physical and the emotional can only be uplifted with the majority of tools that actually serve our soul. And at this type of an event, they're really taking a. All the technology that's being driven by capitalism, and they're honestly just asking the question, like, how do we use this to serve humanity? How do we use this technology to serve humanity? Do you personally have any technology pieces or devices or things that you use that you can say, yeah, this really helps me. Helps me either physiologically. What's your stance on OURA Ring?

Dude, you just hit the nail on the head because, like, so I don't have. So here's a story around this. So I don't have an ordering right now.

Okay.

But I'm involved in a pilot study with 18 volunteer firefighters right now with the California center for Functional Medicine. So the partner, the head of that is partners with Chris kresser, this guy, Dr. Sunja, and all the firefighters are on Oura Ring. So I got one because I'm running not only their SNC work over six months, but I'm also monitoring some of their stress levels and modifying their programming based off of their stress, sleep, etc.

Yeah.

And so I got the OURA ring to learn A lot more about it and then to see how we would influence programming. And it's been really, really interesting because, you know, with Paul, like I went over that two and a half year journey where, no joke, I don't, I'm pretty darn sure in, in two and a half years, I didn't miss one day. If I, I can't even recall one day. And so everything's charted for two and a half years where it was essentially taking kind of those markers that I was sharing earlier. Four doctors, daily readiness training, volume recording my sessions with Paul, etc. And I was putting, you know, those subjective measurements into some type of objective format by charting it so there's graphs and such. And so that experience, I didn't really realize it, but that experience gave me so much experience and understanding around just all those doctors and everything that's involved in health and then now going to much more of just a purely objective measurement of waking up and seeing scores initially. And I do. I'm a big fan of Oura Ring in general. I think it's great. I think it's, it's very, very helpful. And I love the technology. But what I will say is what I found was. So I was teaching. The last time I was at, in San Antonio at Northwest Vista College, I was teaching. And you can imagine like with the Oura ring, if you're teaching, if you're doing kettlebells, it's not kind of uncomfortable. You can't, you can't. I would. Yeah, yeah.

Your skin.

So I took off the ring and I, at that time, I'd been wearing it for maybe a month and a half or so. So I was dialed in. Dialed in. I was like every day checking the app, checking the app, checking the app. And then when I was teaching, I had to set it down and then I lost the ring. And so it was so crazy that the next day I was like, what am I going to do? Like, I remember waking up in the sense, I was like, what's my hrv? What's my daily readiness? And I. And for a moment there was so scary because I had relinquished my own personal power to the technology. So I'm not saying that I'm not a big fan of technology and that it doesn't serve a purpose, but what I am saying is that we potentially need both, because there's insights in both, because I remember one of the things that I had to remind myself on day two. I was like, chill out, dude. You know exactly what to do. That's what your Training taught you, you know, how to check in with yourself, you know, all these, monitor these measurements. Okay, what happens to your bowel movements? What happens? You can just check your pulse.

Yeah.

And so I feel like when work together, you can use technology to truly help. But if that's your only measurement and you lose your own internal measurement system, your own barometer or whatever you want to call it, it's like that's when you're, you're, you're, you essentially you lose your power. And so it was a big lesson for me that when I get another OURA ring, I was like, I'm either going to potentially alternate days or I'm going to, you know, maybe just wear it on the weekend or whatever it is. But I'm always going to make sure that I'm not over relying on technology to guide me. I've got the guide in my heart and in my body, not in a piece of technology.

There is such a big push right now because of insurance companies. John Hancock has this program where they're like, if people take enough steps and they're tracked for their Fitbit, well, then they'll get a less insurance premium. So there's these kickbacks that insurance companies are trying to quantify through people's sedentary time versus active and all these other biometrics. So I think it's cool in one way. I think it's helping, like if we can get little guides to help people towards better steps and better living, great. But like you said, there also is the danger. It's like the slippery slope on each side. And you're a warrior, so you're a wellness warrior. I mean, you walk the middle of the path. Sometimes you've slipped to letting technology take over, and then sometimes maybe you just don't use technology at all. How could people listening actually decide for them? How do they decide if an OURA ring or just if any piece of technology will actually help them in what they're trying to accomplish?

Well, I think potentially just got to ask what, what your goal is? Like, what are you really trying to do and what type of life you're living? You living? Like, do you need that? Is, is that what you need to start listening yourself? Then fuck, go do it. Yeah, do it.

I think too, like, if it's gonna give you permission.

Yeah. Well, like I was thinking when I was on, you know, I experienced some pretty gnarly fungal and parasite issues. And at that time, I remember, you know, when I was working with the practitioner, it was interesting because like, I needed lab testing for my own. My own mind to, like, I needed those objective measurements that if you told me to go on an elimination diet or whatever it was that didn't involve it, I needed, in that moment, I needed to be told what was going on. And I'm a fan of lab testing, but at that time, that's exactly what I needed. And now, for the most part, what's interesting is, is when I was doing all that lab testing, doing food sensitivity panels every few months and herbs and et cetera, then after, once I got that out of my system and I started doing some very rigid and strict food elimination diets, then reintroducing one food at a time. Eight to nine times out of 10, the foods that I learned that I was sensitive to when I reintroduced them was. Are exactly the foods that showed up on the test. And I was like, wow, this I don't have to pay 10 GS, you know, or two, you know, a thousand bucks for more. More testing. Yeah, it's like, I got it inside. But I needed to go through that, and it was hugely helpful for me. So I don't want to be a hypocrite and say, like, don't, you know, like, I love the aura ring. No, I think, you know, so it's.

Whatever stage of consciousness someone is at and whatever tool is going to help them, because I. I, back in the day was an FDN practitioner.

Oh, wow.

And so I would do like, you know, lipid peroxide tests and gut function tests and all these things on people. And I would honestly, just at the end of it, be like, yeah, you spent a thousand dollars and we're just going to take you through a process that we do, and if you didn't, we do the same thing. So it's almost like if there's cause for something, do you even really need the data? Do you even really need the test to tell you to do the elimination diet?

I think you do. Because I think, like, when I think of, like, cultural, I think societal, familiar and religious program, like those programs, like, we gotta meet people where they're at. Yeah, right. It's like, I would love to just say, you know, don't. You don't need to do that. But like, when I'm thinking about people in my family or people I've worked with before, it's like, we have to. And I'm always reminded of that lesson. We have to meet people where they're at, and then, you know, slowly, you know, walk them down the path and let them Figure it out also for themselves.

Yeah.

And not necessarily, you know, tell them, you know, ask them.

I like talking with you, man. I really enjoy this conversation and I think about the intelligence conversation because on the show we always talk about physical and emotional intelligence and it's the discovering process. Nobody just all of a sudden becomes massively masterful intelligent and they don't need to learn anymore. What are you currently learning as an intelligent being in your space? What do you, what's the deepest learning edge you're leaning into right now?

So in this moment, man, I think honestly the medicine work is probably the biggest thing. I think, like, you know, I've training for competition isn't so much of a motivation right now. Not saying I won't return to that, but really trying to understand some of the patterns and some of the, some of the things that, why I am the way I am and understanding myself at a deeper level. I think the medicine work and, and honestly, like part of the thing that attracts me to, you know, going down the path of, of sharing combo with others is like, because I really feel like in that space, like when you're, when you're supporting people through that deeper work, you also have to make sure like you have to be able to go to the depths with them or have been there before. And that partially attracts me. You know, it's like I want to be there to support people, but I know that I can't play small. I have a responsibility to do the work on myself so that I can be there wholeheartedly and present for that person. And I want to do it with my whole heart, I want to do it with my whole body, mind, spirit. And so I think the more work that I do on myself then therefore I can authentically support others. And so I feel like that is the never ending process. But right now that is the work that I'm doing on myself for me, but then also to be a better service for others.

I can feel the gravitas when you said that now because it's the ultimate challenge. It's kind of why we're alive. To grow is to expand is to be challenged is to be alive. And so that's pretty profound. And that feels very true when you say that, you know, the, the voice that you already have in strength and conditioning combined with the way you're going to lead people. I think I can have the sense from you that combo will be a big part of what you talk about in the future. The combination of these two things. Do you have any apprehens about that.

I think. I don't foresee I'll def. I'm sure I'll talk about it. I don't. We'll see what happens, but I don't think I'll market myself. So, like, I want to do.

You're not the combo barbell specialist?

No, no, no. Like, I don't foresee myself doing circles. And, you know, like, I want to, you know, with the people who do the immersions, you know, like one person for a day or so. If. If maybe it's not. Like, it doesn't have to be combo by any means, but, like, if that's some of the work that. That could support them, then for one, you know, one to three days, if they come out, want to do that work, that's great. And, you know, in a. And for friends and family, if they want that, then great. And also, selfishly, like, I would love to do it on myself so that I don't have to always, you know, pay for. That's a selfish reason, but at the same time, it's true.

Yeah.

So if I can also treat myself regularly, then that would be awesome. So I think it's like, it serves me and it serves others, too, but, yeah, I definitely don't want to. I still love my path as a strength and conditioning coach, and this is just one tool that can help me, you know, share more of a holistic approach to training.

So, like, almost 20 years for you now, going back to when you were 15?

Yeah, 15 is when I was coaching. And. Yeah. Yeah. So somewhere's around there. Yeah.

After 20 years and even being here at Paleo, like, what are you the most excited about? Learning, because you talked about combo, and we know that that's a passion for you. But from the actual wellness conversation, just wellness in general, is there anything that you're really looking forward to at the conference?

You know, at this conference, like, I think, like, your schedule's so busy. Like, I'm teaching four workshops, and then over the course, these views, I got, like, five podcasts. So I don't think I'll have last year. I haven't. I've been here. This is the third year I think I've caught. I've definitely caught Paul's presentations because that's like, I love Paul talking, and I love supporting him, and I love listening. But I honestly, it sucks because I haven't heard very many people when I come because it's just the schedule is too busy. But that being said, I feel like the direction that I'm Going where I really want to dive deeper in is, you know, I've been focused when I was going through my own, you know, gut health journey, like, I was really into nutrition. And then the last years has been a lot of SNC and a lot of training, and I feel like I really want to return and dive much more into the gut health realm. And so I'm definitely this time, like, I'm. I've got some good gaps, and so I'm really learning. I'm really excited to listen to some of the gut specialists and what they're talking about. So I would say that's probably the most exciting thing that I want. I want to catch Paul's presentation for sure. And then, you know, whether it's, check Chris Kresser's talk or some of the other guys. Rob Wolf, I think he should be here this year. Yeah. So I want to make sure I check his talk out. So nutrition is where I want to dive deeper in.

Yeah. Michael Ruscio is here. He's a premier gut specialist, I would say, in the world. Margaret's my boy at this point. Yeah. And so he's going to come on the show for the fourth time because. Because gut health is like, it affects everyone. You know, the gut brain axis, the enteric nervous system with the brain. We all know about this. It's like common knowledge at this point. There's no more like, oh, do you think the gut has something to do with the brain? We all know at this point that they're intimately connected. I've really enjoyed this. With me on this has been super fun.

Me too, brother. Yeah.

I've enjoyed talking with you. And this last question is about this intersection of the physical and the emotional. So it's wellness. How would you define wellness? How does Mike Salemi define wellness in his life?

I think wellness is movement. I feel like wellness is constant movement. You know, I think being stuck is when wellness is kind of stagnant and stops. So I think whether it's moving the body or continually growing, I think for me, wellness is movement. And so as long as I'm going in a forward direction or going in a direction, maybe it's not always forward. Maybe it's a little side, maybe it's a little left and right, but movement for me is wellness. And so as long as we're moving, it means we're learning, we're growing, and we're having a good time, hopefully. So that's how I would say in this moment.

I love that answer. I've never heard that Before. This is why I love podcasting, man. Where else in life can people tune in with us and you and I connect organically live than on a podcast. This is why I love that we get to do this, man. Mike Salemi IO is where people can find you, but you're so active on social. You're slinging Bulgarian bags. You're safely throwing around 80 pound kettlebells over your head. Where do you talk to people the most? Online?

Instagram right now. Instagram? Yeah. Facebook, to be honest. Freaks me out, but I'm gonna try and do like a Facebook, like a group or something like that. But, like, I'm not, like, I don't understand social media too well.

Yeah.

But I try my best on Instagram is the best, which is my Instagram is at Mike Salemi.

Awesome, man. We'll link it all in the show notes. Mike. Thank you.

Thank you.

I feel like I met a brother today. Feel at a brother in person, man. This is a long time coming. And we're talking about Mike in the Wellness force group, too. Wellnessforce.com group Mike and Josh from Paleo. We're out. Peace.

Thank you, guys.

All right. Dude, bro, that was easy.

Dude. Bro, you are. And this is not like, this is straight from the heart.

Yeah.

You are fucking the best interviewer. Oh, and I'm fucking. I am so blown away.

I am.

Like, there was four, like three or four moments in that time. Like, the questions, your level of presence, feeling into how I was expressing things. Like, I am so impressed and grateful. I've been on a lot of podcasts. Like, I am. I'm. I'm. I'm grateful, man. Like, I make.

Give me chills.

No, no, I honestly, like, that was truly one of the most, if not the most important, enjoyable and easiest podcast. Yeah, like, that was like, I'm grateful, dude.

Thanks, man.

Like that.

Well, I knew right when I met you, I was like, oh, it's gonna be good.

I don't know.

There's something about you. I was like, oh, this is like a family member or something. I don't. And I'm not bullshitting.

No, no, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm like, I'm like, I was tripping out.

Like, cool, cool.

Yeah, you definitely found, like, you. You found your path, bro. Like. Like, you are really good. And yeah, I'm sure it's taken, you know, work and stuff like that. Like, when you see people who are good, it's like people think, like, it's like, no, I'm sure I know you've put your work in, and I'm so grateful to be on the receiving end of it.

And I received what you're saying, so thanks.

Sam.