280 Vanessa Lambert: How To Find Your Authentic Self

Exploring your authenticity is about how do you get into that alignment? How do you get to that other place where you're like, I'm here, I'm home in myself. I'm not fighting my thoughts constantly. Things around me aren't confusing and confronting. I'm home in my life. I'm in the seat of my soul, so to speak. And I think that that's where authenticity lies. It doesn't have a specific description for you or for me, but it has a feeling of being home inside of ourselves. And so I think that's what it's all about is like, what are the tools for you specifically that bring you back home to yourself?

That's Vanessa Lambert and this is episode 280 of Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life. Well, what's up, my friend? Welcome back to the podcast. It's Josh Trent. And today we're talking about the authentic spot. This is such a buzzword, isn't it? Everybody talks about authenticity being authentic, but what does that actually mean? We're talking about this today with Vanessa Lambert from Be the Wellness. I got to sit down and record this show with Vanessa, which is actually a Facebook live in tandem. So check that out on Facebook. But this is why I love in person podcasts, because the energy, the dialogue, the back and forth, it's super valuable for getting to the truth quickly. And. And if you're currently in a pivot in life or you're changing your job or you're in a relationship switch, or maybe you're just wondering what the hell's going on, you're experiencing some type of midlife or quarter life or just life crisis around identity in general. This show is gonna be an absolute bomb drop for you because Vanessa and her husband Adam at Be the Wellness have decades in health and personal development. They run amazing coaching programs, including her life mastery program, Authentic Self, which we're talking about in today's show as well as retreats around the world. They go to Peru, Australia. This is amazing. Follow them on Instagram, instagram.com bethewellness that's be like a bumblebee. In just a moment, I'm gonna talk about something I'm really thrilled for. They're actually going to Rythmia with Graham Hancock. But before we get there, I wanna give a huge shout and a digital hug to Organifi Gold. Let's talk about the gold today, this sleep product. You know, we're all doing the best we can when it comes to nutrition and movement, but let's face it, like if your sleep sucks, you're not. You're going to make poor choices all day long. I know because I've been there. I use the organifi gold at night with the turmeric, the reishi, the lemon balm, the turkey tail so I can sleep better. I back this with my oura ring data. I mean, sleep is literally everything. If sleep is crappy, your day is going to unfold in the same crappy way. Give organifi gold a test drive. Go over to Organifi.com WellnessForce you get 20% off because you're in the WellnessForce community. That's Organifi.com WellnessForce for 20% off the gold and actually everything else, you can fill up your whole cart. Share that same link with your friends. This discount is automatically applied for you at checkout. Give yourself the gift of better sleep and get the hookup@organifi.com wellnessforce and then once you're sleeping, great. And you're ready to receive the day. This is huge. You can join Adam and Vanessa for an absolutely epic adventure trip this year. Join their group at rythmia this December with special guest Graham Hancock. You're familiar with Graham Hancock, right? One of the most powerful and famous authors ever when it comes to states of consciousness. He's been on Rogan and London real and so many incredible shows. Vanessa is running a special edition of her authentic self program. This is gonna support her group's trip to rythmia which you can go. You can be a part of this. Get $200 off by using code AUTHENTIC200. But class starts on Monday, literally in just a few days. So the time to join is now. To learn more, visit bethewellness.com that's be the wellness.com we're about to drop in with Vanessa to learn about how she did the Berkeley psychic institute program that changed her life completely. Where she discovered intuition, deepest power, and how to work with energy. We talk about why we struggle so much with the process of feeling emotions, experiencing them and what it really means to let them go. We also dive into plant medicine and how it's helped her surrender her struggles and emotions in order to connect with something bigger than herself. Because, you know, we're definitely not alone here. There's obviously a higher intelligence that guides everything, but how do we dance with that? How do we open ourselves up so that universe, spirit, whatever you believe comes through us and allows us to guide ourselves? That's what we're talking about today on the show as well as so many other things. Let's drop in right now live from Los Angeles with the one and only Vanessa Lambert. Wow. Vanessa. Vanessa Lambert, welcome to Wellness Force.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dropped in deep. I feel like we're underground together.

Yeah, we're on that spaceship.

This is a, a spiritual spaceship. Like, it has been an utter joy to get to know you and Adam.

Oh, thank you.

And I'm excited to talk about all these topics today. Just not just plant, medicine, integration, because so many people know you as being a guide physically, emotionally, spiritually. And I've just been so impressed with your work and everything you've created with BE the Wellness. So such an honor to have you on the show today.

Thank you for having me. It's such an honor to be here. And likewise, right back at you. With everything you're creating and doing, it's so, so special to be sharing conversation and sharing space with you.

And this word share is, is big for me today because in my space there's been people that want to co create and people that want to take. And so you're a conscious media creator. How do you balance this world? I asked this question recently to someone on the show, but how do you balance and operate in a world with BE the Wellness, where you have a podcast, you have a voice, you take people across the world on fun trips, which we're going to talk about. How do you always come from a place of groundedness and co creation instead of taking? How do you manage that energy flow in you?

Well, it's funny because I think my super power tool is fun and honestly, just keeping it fun. You know, if you really think about life and you think about, you know, how complex things can get and how intense things can get, you're trying to manage all these systems and your own energy and everyone else, if you just laugh, if you just have fun, if you just like allow it to be lighter, it doesn't have to be so heavy. It doesn't have to be like, oh, how do I do all this and how am I going to balance it? And you know, you have those moments for sure. But get back to the fun. Like, give back to the childlikeness that's inside of all of us. And it just helps to kind of go, oh, okay. It just sort of sets the energy so that like, you're not battling it, you're not managing it, you're just flowing with it.

Being in flow is a skill set. Hello.

It is.

So this flow state, I think all of us, whether we work in a 9 to 5 or we're an entrepreneur, we all want to be in the flow state. And a lot of what has guided you. It feels like when I look at your story, I did some digging online for you and a lot of what I found from you was just this constant truth seeking. You were the youngest of your family. I think you even called yourself the runt at one point. What about your childhood grew you to be Vanessa Lambert, be the wellness now. Like, was there a piece of that that you can look back on and say, yeah, that made me who I am?

You know, there's definitely a lot and you know, we could go the whole childhood story, but there is definitely one.

It could be a very long podcast.

It could be a super long podcast, but there's definitely a stake in the ground that I would say there's a couple, but the very first one, when I in my late 20s, so I'm 40 now, so I guess 26, 27, I did a year long internship in the Berkeley Psychic Institute method and that really changed the compass of what was happening for me.

Berkeley Psychic Institute. That sounds fascinating.

Yeah, it was really cool. So. And essentially what it really is, I mean it sounds like super woo woo. And it is a little woo woo.

But knowing you, it might be woo woo.

Yeah, it's pretty woo woo. But it's really about discovering your own intuition and understanding your deepest power. Understanding how to use, you know, energy for healing, understanding how to work with the energy around us to create the world that you want to be part of and to also help others heal and move forward in a more beautiful and connected way as well. And so that definitely was like, okay, something's changed here.

This feel like a stake in the spiritual ground.

Totally. And from there I think I couldn't look back, so to speak. You know, it's like I couldn't. You don't know what you don't know. So like, you know, I'm going along in life and I always considered myself a very spiritual person. I had the good fortune of my mom when I was really young, kind of starting on her spiritual journey. And so she would listen to, you know, back then it was like Mark Victor Hansen and Zig Ziglar and like these motivational speakers Tony Robbins was back then. And you know, I'd be in the car on the way to school and we'd be listening to these tapes.

Thank you, mom.

Yeah, yeah. Which was so cool. And so I had kind of this like on ramp coming up in my childhood. But you know, the year long internship with the, with the teachers who did the Berkeley Psychic Institute method was a big change for me.

Yeah. And you're a big surfer as well.

Yeah.

Like you spend, do you still spend a lot of time in the water?

So I don't spend as much as I wish. I. It's LA is a weird spot. Right. Because it's not the best waves, it's super crowded and it's pretty crowded with a lot of assholes.

This is like Point Break where they punch each other in the water.

It gets pretty aggressive. Yeah. And so I find myself, if it's not really good surf, I don't necessarily go out. Like, I'll do other things because I don't want to like necessarily deal with the, with the, the bad vibes if, you know, I don't know. It is what you make it for sure. But sometimes I'm like, I'll do something else. I'll let the people that want to like fight over it have it today. But I have spent a lot of my time in the water and that's definitely a space, spiritual place for me to live. For sure.

Yeah. You're reminding me how special the ocean is in people's relationship to the ocean. It's these negative ions.

Yeah.

We're all craving it. This is why on the front of the ocean all the real estate is almost taken or it's super expensive.

Right.

Because there's something that we get from, I think looking even at the horizon of the ocean, we get something rich from that. And how far away from the ocean do you live now?

I live just a couple blocks. Yeah.

You can just walk there and I.

Go all the time.

I live fairly close, so I can drive and be there in 10 minutes.

Nice.

Or like a 30 minute ride on my feet.

Yeah.

But I think the real context of what I'm asking you is this. Be the wellness creation. It's about giving people a rich experience in life. And like you've said, being the wellness that you want to see in the world. Exactly how did you come up with that? Was it at a coffee shop? Like where were you when the downloaded?

Yeah, it was just. I was on a walk one day and I just thought of the, you know, it's the Gandhi saying, be the change you wish to see in the world. And I just thought be the wellness you wish to see in the world. In the world. Like be the health, be the vibrancy, be the wellness that you want to reflect around, you know, that you wish is reflected back at you. And so, yeah, it just downloaded one day, and I was like, yeah, be the Wellness.

Do you remember where you were?

Yeah, I was actually on a walk with our best friends Katie and Glenn Cordoza. I don't know if you're familiar with them.

They were, like, first on the scene for Paleo and CrossFit in NorCal, right?

Yeah, definitely. So we were a little, like, early adopters crew in the CrossFit scene up with Rob Wolf at NorCal. And, yeah, they just became our besties. Because, you know, when you're suffering together like that, doing CrossFit, it bonds us.

All, whether it's exercise or plants or hiking a mountain.

Yep. The suffering brings the love. So we were on a walk with them, and I just. I was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna start this blog called Be the Wellness. And it'll be the tagline, be the wellness you wish to see in the world. And it just. Yeah, it was just there.

And you knew right away.

Yeah, I was like, that's it.

We've all had these download moments where it's like, yes, I got it. Yeah, it's crazy for me because you're making me think about In Wellness Force, when started, like, people don't really know this. It was about using technology to empower health. And I went down this road of exploring, like, does technology really help people, or is there something else that can help people? Sure, I think a small part of it can be that way. But when I got the download for, I was in Vegas, and I had kind of been burning out coaching people online. And I got to this point where I was working with a coach, and he said, what are you most afraid to share? And I was like, I'm most afraid to share what's really going on. Like, my money's not working out. I'm stressed. I'm an entrepreneur, like, just cutting my teeth, like, trying to figure it out. And he's like, well, why don't you just talk about what you're scared about? And then everybody will follow because they're all scared too.

Yeah, totally.

And when he said that, I was like, bam. And then that's where discovering physical and emotional intelligence came from as our tagline. So that. So that men and women can live their life well, which is why you're here. And it's why I'm so honored and thrilled to have this conversation with you about not just Altered States, because I know you're helping a lot of men and women manage before a ceremony, during a ceremony, and after a ceremony. But you've been in the game for a long time.

Yeah.

Like this coaching world, like, when did the coaching world actually start for you?

You know, I've been coaching since I was a kid, actually. And I know this sounds crazy, but I started coaching when I was 9 years old and I was a gymnast and I was rather excelled for my age. And so one of the coaches asked if I would start coaching the younger kids, meaning 4, 5, and 6. And so I started coaching literally when I was like nine years old.

That's a lot of responsibility for a nine year old.

I was the most responsible child you'd ever met. Like, I've definite become less responsible as I've gotten older. I don't know what it was. I don't know, like, if it was the way I was raised or just whatever was going on. I had this real, like, I was very dialed in at a very young age and for some reason adults could just see it and they just trusted me and they would, you know, let me coach their kids. I think back and I'm like, how are the parents showing up? And I'm coaching their little kids and there's another kid coaching the kids.

Yeah.

But for some reason they just got it. They just saw like, okay, she's got it handled. And I did. Did, for some reason. I don't know why. It was just there. And so I've been coaching. Yeah. Since I was like, you know, walking. Wow.

Okay. This is, this is total authentic podcasting right here. I've been noticing how beautiful your earrings are.

And.

And this, this left one is like rubbing against the cord.

Oh, yeah.

It's creating energy there.

Yeah.

Would you mind if we put your earrings right here? Just because. So for people watching, like, this is real. Like, we're. This is live. I think people can forget. Like, are they. Are they actually doing this? First of all, let's talk about these earrings.

Yeah. They're from Africa.

These are from Africa.

Yeah, I just got them. We took a group on safari last October.

Gorgeous.

And so, yeah, they're made by like the local tribes women, which is really cool.

We're going to keep them there to give them homage.

Yes, we are.

Okay, let's go back to the coaching because the whole framework of who Vanessa Lambert is now, like, the backstory of that is so rich. Gosh. I mean, firefighting, going to Hawaii and then meeting Adam as a firefighter, just give us the skinny. You don't have to go into depth because this show is about, like, really giving tactical and grain based advice. But I Think it's important. I think it's important that people know a little bit of your richness.

Yeah.

Thank you. So since you were that kid at 9, like, what did it look like after that?

Yeah, so I really, you know, I ended up being a competitive athlete most of my life. And fast forward, we were living in Chico. Well, actually, let's fast forward to Hawaii. I was about. I guess I was 20 years old and I moved to Hawaii. I went there on vacation and just decided. Stayed for two years. Ended up so.

Powerfully strong, isn't it?

Yeah, it's. So I literally could not get back on the plane. I was just like, in tears that morning thinking, like, I don't want to go back. Like, I can't leave this place. It was just such a little incubator for me. So I ended up staying for two years, you know, started surfing competitively, was teaching surf lessons out there and was actually, you know, one of the first female surf instructors out there. There wasn't a lot of women at the time doing it, so. Yeah. And so I just always. I've always been pulled into this coaching realm. And then Fast Forward came home because I obviously Adam was. Who's. Adam is my husband, for folks who don't know that.

And you met him firefighting, which. She's also been a firefighter.

Yeah, As a firefighter for five years. So, you know, I was going back and forth from Hawaii fighting fires, and I go back in the season, in the off season, and then I ended up hanging out with Adam and, you know, we stayed in touch and came home. Was like, okay, I'm in love with this guy. This is happening. And then we moved to Chico, and that's where we met Rob Wolf. We started competing in CrossFit. And so again, just getting pulled back into this competition sort of lifestyle, and didn't really, really want to coach. Didn't really want to, you know, insert myself into, like, the CrossFit coaching. But it just kept presenting itself. And then, you know, you're hanging out with Glenn Cordoza and Katie Cordoza and Rob Wolf and all Nikki and all these people. I just ended up having this really robust education on strength and conditioning. So, you know, started coaching a little bit and then at some point moved to LA to pursue my music career, which is a whole nother segment.

Nessa Tunes.

Yes, exactly. And so met up with Mark Sisson. Rob introduced me to Mark Sisson and started working for Mark.

This is right, because he used to live in Malibu.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so ended up starting his, like, the first coaching offerings that he had through Primal Blueprint, and we called it, you know, executive coaching program, and we had a couple coaches, and I led that program, and, you know, we had actual coaching offerings to the public. And then we started doing retreats with Mark, and so that was kind of the introduction to retreat land and into running events. And eventually Mark decided he didn't really love the events. He didn't really. That wasn't his.

He's more of an introvert.

He's totally.

People think of him on the stage, presenting. He's like, not really. He doesn't love being out there.

No. He's really good at it. Yeah. And he can be super gregarious when he needs to be, but his home is.

I feel the same way.

Yeah. So. Yeah. So then, you know, we just started be the wellness, and we started kind of just taking all of the pieces of all the things we'd done over life and putting it into one little basket.

It's cool to hear your story, because I think all of us, we go down this road of either following the dream or not. And the dream can be really scary.

Yeah.

Because for some people, it's like, I want to lead retreats around the world. How the hell do I make that happen?

Right.

No, you weren't born with a playbook or a PDF about how you lead groups in transformational experiences across the world.

No.

There's something about you and Adam that you share together that allows you to hold these spaces for people.

I agree.

What do you think that is?

You know, I think for both of us, we just have a real, genuine love for people. Like, a real, genuine love to see people happy, to see them thriving, to see that spark in their eye where maybe it didn't exist before. And I think that it's just real for us. Like, that's just a real, genuine care and love for humans. And so that's really all it takes is just going, okay, this is the way we know how to create that spark, and this is the way that we can use our passions and the gifts that we have in order to help fuel that spark in someone else. And so, you know, let's just do that.

Yeah. And it. And it sounds so easy when you say it, but easy doesn't always mean it's easy to execute. But you're right. Maybe this bedrock of energy where it's like, hey, I want to share my love that I have for people. Because you have the same love for yourself.

Yeah.

I mean, let's really get down to it. Right. The self love aspect kind of laces everything that we're sitting to talk about today. Whether it's ceremony or your authentic self program or anything like that. The bedrock of anything is self love.

Totally.

And this year especially has been the ultimate proving ground for me about do I love Josh Trent or not so happening. Of course I love Josh Trent. I love Josh Trent and I love that he gets to connect with Vanessa. I love that because shit, why are we actually here? Let's go there as this jumping off point for the next chapter. Like, what do you think we're doing here? Planet Earth in a meat suit.

Oh man, that's a good one. So, you know, I've had a lot of experiences around this and I think that the one thing I know is true is that love is the answer. You know, whatever it is, at the end of the day, it's to reconnect with love and it's to find a deeper respect in relationship and to really hone your skill of love. Because it is a skill at the end of the day, if it was just, you know, granted. It is granted to everyone, but we don't necessarily feel that way about it all the time. And it really is a skill to understand, like how to cultivate it and how to express it and how to, you know, really work with the pattern of love in your life. And so I think for me, being a human being in the human experience is really about understanding how to come into oneness with love, into that divinity. And there's so many things about it, you know, it's like, I do believe that your soul probably has a contract, you know, on what it wants to work on in this lifetime. And I think that, you know, you definitely are put into a path of opportunity to explore those things that's going to give your soul a deeper and richer experience of itself. But I think it all comes back to love. It really does. And it seems so simple and easy, but like, like that's it. That's the answer. It's coming back to that essence of love.

Yeah. And the challenge is here in the 3D. Love is not exactly the narrative.

Right.

In the media and in the public. And I almost feel in a way that the creator, whatever that intelligence is, I don't like to label it because I think it's. It is whatever it is, but we all kind of know it's there.

Yeah.

And everybody has their unique way of worshiping it or acknowledging it, or even people that don't, you know, it's funny, they're still making a choice.

Totally.

So when they say, I believe there's nothing, well, they're still making a choice to believe something.

Sure. They're believing in nothing.

They believe that nothing.

Totally. Totally.

So I have a sense what you're touching on here is the soul contract and free will of choice.

Yeah.

Your free will of choice led you to create experiences for other people, for groups of people. Why did you actually choose to do that?

You know, I think that for me, again, it just comes back to what is the best expression of my energy, what is the best expression of my human and potential, and for the soul, seeds that were planted in my path. And I just think that every time I've gotten off that path, where maybe I haven't been as focused about, you know, making sure that I'm giving, that I'm actually genuinely perpetuating love or I'm genuinely giving in service to people, things just haven't been as right for me. You know, things have been more difficult or there have been more of a struggle, and there's been less flow. And so for me, it was just about really acknowledging that, like, that is the path for me. That's just what I'm meant to do. I am meant to love people. I'm meant to help them in whatever way they'll allow me to. Whether that's through coaching, whether that's through meditation, whether that's through, you know, authentic self. Whatever it is, I'm just here to be with how people will allow me to be with them.

Yeah. And I love the way that you explain things, because anyone can understand it. And that's the true mark of intelligence. Somebody can take something so vast and so complicated and drill it down to, like, digestible bites of information. So I want to acknowledge that about you. Because this authentic self, that is not exactly a simple thing to explore like the authentic self. This is a program that you have. But I want to go to somebody who's listening, and they're like, well, wait a minute. I don't actually know what that means. I don't actually know what that means to be your authentic self. What does that actually even mean for them?

It's such a good question, right? Because I think what it comes down to is. Is, you know, intrinsically in your life when things are just not quite synced up. And it may not be, you know, a specific event or a specific thing that you can even point to. But I think every single one of us knows something's not right when it isn't. You just feel out of balance. Like things just aren't quite in alignment. And you know, there's something on the other side of this. You just don't know how to get there. And so for me, exploring your authenticity is about how do you get into that alignment? How do you get to that other place where you're like, okay, I'm here, I'm home in myself. I'm not fighting my thoughts constantly. I'm not uncomfortable in my skin. Things around me aren't confusing and confronting. I'm home in my life. I'm in the seat of my soul, so to speak. And I think that that's where authenticity lies. It doesn't have a specific description, you or for me, but it has a feeling of being home inside of ourselves. And so I think that's what it's all about is like what are the tools for you specifically that bring you back home to yourself.

Coming home. This concept. And I read last year, Be here Now, Ram Dass. And in there's little kind of suggestions and little, little clues about coming home.

Right.

And I think even the last page in that book, correct me if I'm wrong, wrong, but it's someone standing over a bridge looking at how they're coming back home to themselves.

Oh, I don't know, I haven't read that one.

Well, it's, it's actually like a fun adult almost like pop up book because there's designs and drawings inside of it. Like it's so cool. But, but this concept of remembering who we are.

Yeah.

Coming back home. Even the, the first question at Rythmia is like, show me who I've become.

Right, right.

Who actually, who actually am I?

Who am I?

How am I being. Because the world can be. Be so distracting and kind of kick our ass off the path of fulfilling the dream that we really get tested here on the soul contract. Is there a moment where you were most tested to stick to your guns, to stay with the be the wellness dream?

You know, actually I would say that the biggest test came before be the wellness, before I actually launched full into it. And that Test came in 2011 when my appendix ruptured and I ended up in the hospital for a month. Month. Pretty near death. Like pretty. You know, and actually when Jerry talks about this at Rhythmia, talks about reemerging with the soul. Yeah, that was my re. Emergence with the soul. And in fact when I was at Rhythmia, I discovered that, you know, I. It said you already reemerged with your soul, you remember? And I knew exactly what it was talking about. Because that was probably the deepest transformative. I don't want to say fight, because it wasn't a fight, but it was definitely a conscious choice of, do you want to stay here or not? Are you gonna finally be on the path you're meant to be on, or are you gonna keep fighting it? Are you gonna keep resisting it? And so for me, that was actually the biggest determining period of time. And then, you know, with be the wellness, it's just now that I'm on it, now that I'm committed, it just. That's. That's it. That's all there is. And now it's just about, you know, fitting the pieces where they're meant to be. But there isn't really any more a feeling of like, is this the right choice?

What were you fighting?

You know, I was fighting this idea of who I should be rather than who I really am. I was fighting the vision of who I thought I was supposed to become, the world I was supposed to live in, what I was supposed to represent, rather than just really being me. And I think a lot of us are going through that. You know, a lot of us are having that duality of, like, which version is really me and which version am I really going to commit to being.

Yeah.

And that was where I was at, for sure.

Yeah. And I think that everyone can relate to this, no matter who you are.

Totally.

You have big dream, small dream, massive dream. And by the way, not everyone is called to be entrepreneur or. Or have their own business or. Because it's. It's. It can be extremely rich, but also incredibly challenging.

Yeah, totally.

And the challenges can come too in. In the 9 to 5 or the regular world, because who am I to say that that world is bad or wrong for so many people? They're extremely happy and fulfilled in that world because they have a different soul contract than you and I. So in a way, that is their.

Authentic self, a hundred percent.

Who are the people that are called to this program for you? Like, what is this program? Who's it for?

It's really for anyone who's just deep seeking a deeper connection with themselves. That's really all it comes down to is would you like to develop a richer arsenal, a better connectivity to yourself and the world around you? And I think that, you know, we all need to develop tools, right? We're not just gifted or given all of these tools necessarily to know how to deal with life, to know how to interact with it in the highest vibrational way. And so for me, it's about creating an arsenal of tools that you can go, okay, this is coming at me. I know I can dig into my toolbox and say, okay, this is the time I need to use my breath work. Or this is the time I need to use some emotional freedom tapping or this is the time I know I need to get quiet and listen to what's there and just have that, you know, that playbook, so to speak, of how to deal with life. And so that's really who it's for, is people who are trying to develop their playbook.

Do you feel like the most of the time it's someone encounters a stressor that, that is taking them away from their dream and you remind them how to get back to their center, back to their breath. Is it a, is it a centering toolkit or is it something more than a centering toolkit?

So Authentic Self is actually broken into three modules and it's nine months long. So it's actually a long process.

You're going deep, you're going deep, you're going nine months. This is a long game.

Yes. And the reason I did that was, you know, I had, I mentioned the Berkeley Psychic Institute method and it was a year long program. And I don't think, you know, we're all super addicted to quick fixes but to, yeah, to make a real change, sometimes you got to put some skin in the game. You've got to say, okay, I'm going to commit to this process and I'm going to, I'm going, going to commit to the practice of being in this process and you know, to really be with it for a while. This isn't just like a 21 day fix, like, okay, I'm going to be authentic in 21 days. This is about really digging deep. And so there's three modules. The very first module, which is about three months long is about, like I said, developing that arsenal, that toolkit of how do I just interact with life, how do I get centered no matter what's coming at me and how do I know how to interact and interface with whatever's happening in the moment. From there we take the next three months and we look to the past. So now that we have this arsenal of tools, we have sort of our go to things that we know work for us. We're gonna start digging deep and looking at the past patterns and where they came from and healing those things. You know, looking at forgiveness, looking at the hard stuff and finding out where did these patterns come from and do I want to keep it or do I want to toss it? And that might sound simple, right? Okay, I know that, you know, maybe my dad was an alcoholic and I struggle with drinking. Okay, obviously I don't want to keep this, but that might be easier said than done. Right? So this is where we use those tools. Okay, what are the tools that you can use to help heal this pattern, to help heal this thing that isn't helping you to create your most authentic expression. And from there, once we've kind of healed the past, it's about creating the future. And so the next three months, we do a goal setting seminar where you decide what is it that I want to create moving forward? And then I really coach you in the first three months of going after your very first goal, the very first thing you want to start creating. Because again, the practice of creation is just that, it's a practice. This isn't just something that you go, okay, I want to start my own business. Great. From the thought of I want to start my own business to the creation of starting your own business, there's a lot of steps.

Oh my God.

Right?

Uncountable steps.

And then once you start the business, there's even more steps, of course. And so it's about being in the practice of coaching people through how do I break down what are seemingly insurmountable tasks and actually making step by step processes to get to the creation of that thing. And so it's all about, you know, really giving people a path to creating their most authentic life, to expressing themselves in the way that they are meant to express.

Which one of the three phases do people typically, and I know that's a blanket word, but what, what phase of that do people have the most challenges.

In looking at the past?

Number two. And why is that? Because I think especially for men, I'll speak on behalf of the masculine. So. So for the masculine, I was raised in an environment EAS San Diego, flat billed hats, pickup trucks, like Geriatric Ward. So emotional intelligence was not exactly like the conversation of the day. It was more, and honestly, it was more like, who'd you have sex with? How much did you drink last night?

Right.

And how nice is the chrome on your exhaust pipe?

Right?

That was the conversation.

That's important stuff.

And I mean, those all have their place, right? But that looking at the past and taking an emotional inventory for the masculine is something that in Los Angeles and Encinitas, like, that's being talked about, but I don't think it's really being talked about in middle America. In the panhandle of Florida in the trenches, like in Alligator Alley, like, this isn't the conversation. Is that second phase more challenging for the masculine or for the feminine? Because you work with men and women in this program.

Yeah, you know, I think it just depends on the person. And I wouldn't say that I've noticed that it's more difficult for one or the other, but I think it just depends on the person. And how strong the resistance is, is right. How strong we resist what we know is the thing that's going to help us transform. And that I really think is an individual thing. And so I haven't noticed it specifically male or female, but as a whole, that second module is where people really start having a tough time, you know, and they're like, I don't want to think about that anymore. I've already forgiven somebody. I'm done with that. I did that. But you know, as you know, if you've really forgiven and you've really put that thing to rest, then there isn't as much emotional charge around it. Of course there's always going to be, you know, a spark of pain from something that hurts. But, you know, there's a difference between that and full out resistance and fighting back and pushing back against it. And so that's the part where sometimes people have a struggle. But yeah, because we've built that awesome arsenal of tools. They've already, they already know. They're like, okay, I know when this thing shows up, up, this is what I need to do. This is how I need to counteract it.

In order for you to create this, you had to have gone through it very deeply yourself. So in that second phase, when you created and went through it, what was one of the things that was most challenging to let go of for you in that second phase?

Well, you know, I think for me I had had a lot of resistance and I guess animosity towards my dad. You know, my parents divorced when I was 9 years old and my dad had had a pretty bad drinking problem and a bit of a substance abus. And that created a pretty chaotic childhood and a lot of mistrust and abandonment issues and lots of stuff like that, you know, that so many of us have. And so for me, it was just about really letting go and releasing any of that old stuff that was still there. And I actually have a great relationship with my dad. He's awesome. We've healed. Like, all is totally good, but some of that stuff still lived deep down inside. So even though on a superficial level, you know, we're cool, we love each other, we get along. There's no, like, stuff going on in the space. There was still the deeply planted seeds of, you know, can I trust men? Will I be left? Will I be abandoned? You know, there was still all that stuff really there. And so my process was really just every time it came up, just looking at it, being with it, you know, not resisting it, using the tools that I have, using the breath work, also just being with it, just allowing it to sit in the space. Because I think oftentimes when something's uncomfortable, we want to run away from it. We want to go distract ourselves. Like, how can I get out of this? It's too intense. And so it was also just about recognizing how important it is to just sit with things and allow them to be and to watch how they will just diffuse if you'll just give them space. And so, yeah, for me, it was a lot of digging in the past and just, you know, consistently releasing that stuff, forgiving that stuff, and acknowledging it as many times as I needed to.

It really hit me in my sternum when you said, people are just afraid to be with it. I think it's interesting because you run be the wellness, so men and women are challenged to be with the emotion. I mean, I even had something like that this morning where I had a guest on the show. I'm not gonna say who it was, but you guys would. Would be so shocked who it actually was that that responded like this. And I said, would you mind leaving a review for us on itunes?

Yeah.

And he ignored it. So a week later, I just followed up. I was like, hey, no big deal. You're not. You're not obliged to, like, 100%, but we love your support. And he responded back. It's so annoying that you asked me for a review for your podcast, and I thought, hold on, is this a lesson? Where can I find the gem in here? And I was like, oh, this tests my resilience for asking for something and not being charged with a negative emotion if I don't receive what I wanted yet. I think there's a beautiful way to express that someone doesn't want to do something other than being rude.

Totally, right. Totally.

So this. This is what you're talking about being with and by the way, like that. Because I would know. Personally, I would never treat someone like that, especially when they come on your show, like, and this person actually asked to be on the show.

Oh, that is such a trip.

But people are always showing us who they are, and so it's up to me to surrender to what is true. Yeah. And this surrender process, the surrendering happens so deeply in breath work and plant medicine.

Yeah.

Let's dive into surrendering because you're a backbone of. Your whole work is about teaching people how to surrender. So when I look at this program for authentic self, there's something also in addition that you do, and it's helping men and women integrate to surrendering and being in the plant medicine experience. When did this come up? What's it called?

So really quick, I just have to say my last album was called Surrender Full Body Chill. Yeah. Because it's such a big one. So when you say, when did this come up, you mean the. The idea of surrender.

The idea, yeah.

Yeah.

Or even just guiding people through pre peri and post ceremony.

I've been doing plant medicine for a really long time. And not ayahuasca. I've done mushrooms. I've done hallucinogenics. I've done a lot of stuff. Because I grew up in Northern California, which is pretty bohem. A lot of people grow marijuana. You know, it's kind of the emerald triangle area. And so I ended up doing mushrooms when I was about, I want to say, like, 14. Like, really young. Yeah. Yeah, really young. And it's not that I recommend that or like, whatever. We don't have to go into that, but that's how it happened.

You're not condoning the use of illegal substances?

Yes, I'm not condoning that. I'm not promoting that. I'm just saying that's how it happened for me. Yeah. And in that moment, because, you know, I'd had this tumultuous childhood with my parents divorcing with, you know, a lot of fighting and a lot of stuff going on where I just had this moment where I was like, oh, my God, there's something so much bigger than all of this. There's so much love and so much connectivity and so much beauty, and I am so cared for. And I didn't necessarily know that before. I, you know, obviously I knew my parents loved me. I knew that they were doing their very best in their human expression that they could. You know, I knew that deep down inside, but life was pretty scary. Like, it wasn't. Didn't feel very safe to me. And so there was a moment way back then where I just was like, oh, okay, I can trust, or there's, you know, somebody. Something out there loves me bigger than I could have experienced and that I could have known without this introduction. Through the planet. And so I think surrender has been sort of always with me because of those moments and those experiences. But, you know, when I was at Rythmia, actually I had a client who had done authentic self. She was with me and she was like, oh my God, Authentic self makes so much more sense now. Like, you know, like all the pieces came together for her. And, you know, I had known that writing the program because having had a lot of plant medications, medicine experiences, I could see it through that filter. But having someone having a client who had gone through the process come back and say that. And I've actually had a few clients who've done plant medicine and said this to me. I was like, you know, I really want to offer a specific class of authentic self dedicated to people who are going to do plant medicine so that they can have this experience of that support system of again those tools and that mechanism and that process.

Yeah, I love the word support system because people, when you make the decision and. And this is for everyone. When plant medicine calls someone when they've made the decision to do it.

Yeah.

The ceremony starts right then.

Oh, yeah.

It's not like you go to ceremony and the ceremony begins. I've heard of people like missing flights, getting sick, going through crazy right before they go to the jungle, Peru, or before they. Even before Costa Rica, people will miss their flight or something will happen.

Right.

And it's like the test starts as soon as the soul is called.

Totally.

So is that when people start to work with you, when they have that initial soul calling for the medicine?

Yeah. So, you know, authentic self is structured in a way where there's a start and an end date. And I really. It's super important to me actually to do it in a group setting where you're doing it with other people, because we learn so much from each other and we see ourselves in each other. So. So it's a great mechanism for learning. And so there's specific start dates for the program. The next one that is dedicated to rythmia is actually the start date's June 24th. And the way that it works out is that you're through the first two modules and then we go to Rythmia, do our plant medicine week, and then we have the next three months together after. So then you start creating your life after. And I support and in that process. So the coaching doesn't start necessarily right away, but you know, obviously once you're in that community, once you're part of our system, we've got communication and we, we Help people and support them in whatever way they need. One on one until the actual coaching starts.

And let's be real. Plant medicine and altered states of as. Altered. Altered states Economy, as Jamie Wheel would say. Yeah, it's the wild, wild West.

It is.

I mean, it's.

It is.

What's actually what's going on right now? How do you see this? Landsc of plant medicine integration. I was just at the Awakened Futures Conference in San Francisco. Psychedelics, Technology and Meditation.

It was amazing.

Next year you get to go. Me and Adam would love this.

Yeah.

And Jamie Wheel was actually one of the speakers, so is Tim Chang and Mikey Siegel. This dynamic movement that they have at Awakened Futures. But the big take home was you guys. We're creating this as we move forward, one day at a time. We're actually creating this. The ivory towers of the DEA and the way that drugs have been controlled historically in the United States and really in the world that came from a place of fear and scarcity, of waking up to how powerful we actually are.

Totally.

What do you see? The space from your eyes, your vantage point here in la. What's your description of this wild wild West?

That's such a good question. You know, I think it's really the description is this is our souls ready. We're finally in a place where we just can no longer tolerate the old dogma. It's like shedding the skin, Right. And we're just. It doesn't fit anymore. It's too constrictive. We just want to, like, burst out and claim our new selves. And I think that that is really what so many people are doing. However, again, it is the wild wild West. So it's really hard, especially if you're a newcomer to this world and you're like, I want to explore plant medicine. I want to explore altered states of consciousness. But I don't know where to begin. I don't know anyone who's done this. I don't have a support system. Like, where do I go? And so I think for people like that, you know, it can be really intimidating. And that's what I love about rythmia. I love about the work that I love what Jerry's doing because it gives access to regular people. You know, you don't have to have been someone like you or I or, you know, doing mushrooms when you're 14.

You don't have to have a BA in plant medicine to go there.

Exactly. These are regular people, and I love that so much. I love when you show up that there's people from all walks of life.

All over the world, all ages.

All ages. It, like, makes my heart sing because it can be a very intimidating landscape to enter into. And Jerry has made it possible for regular people of all walks of life to come in and feel comfortable.

You have a gift of making people feel that comfort.

Thank you.

And what happened is I went for my second round this year, and I'll never forget this. I was sitting in my car in front of the market in Rancho Santa Fe, and I called you.

Yeah.

And I was like, I need to talk to you. I have no idea why, but I'm called to talk to you because I was going to rhythm in, like, a week or two. And the way that you just had a conversation with me and held space for me, I didn't have that conversation with anyone else. And even to this day, I'm not exactly sure why I talk to you. You specifically about it. I think it was because there is this trustability factor with you, and you shared with me about what happened with you and your recent journey. And just. Just having. The reason I'm bringing this up is just having somebody to trust, to talk to can relieve the pressure of the fear, which is really completely false evidence appearing real. There is nothing to fear when you go to a ceremony. And yet the ego and like you said, the stubbornness. I'm a Taurus, so I'm pretty fucking stubborn. And so I called you to kind of really just allow myself to let go. And what happened was, is I went and I had probably. No, I'm going to get rid of the word probably. I had the most transformational experience compared to the first year, because I felt more of a trusting and an allowing. When I went this year, that was totally different because in 2018, it was like I was holding on for the first three ceremonies, like, can I trust these people?

Are you sure I'm not going to die?

Can I actually trust these motherfuckers? So. So. But the second year, I was able to drop in deep. The very first night, it was like. It was like a continuation. It was like a fifth ceremony from a year before. It was like there was no time that had passed because she took me right back to that moment.

Oh, wow.

And it was just this, like, purging of shame and letting go and all these things that in the moment were like, am I actually going to die? And I did die. I had vines wrap around my arm and pull me in the ground. And I've talked about this before. So listen to the episode that we did with Jerry and Jay Brown. It was incredible. You guys, Guys, the reason I'm bringing this up is because you have this, I want to say, ability, skill set or power, however we want to describe it. Where does that come from in you, this ability to hold that space for people? Because I think it's a lot more than just the young lady who had mushrooms at 14.

You know, I just honestly love people. I, like, love them. And I love the sweet human condition we're all in. I like, I think it's so, like, sweet, you know, because we're all in this condition of being human. And so we are just dealing with it and coping with it and trying to be our best at it. And I have just such a deep compassion and empathy for what we're all doing together. And so I think that's really what it is, is that when I look at someone, you know, when you talk to me, it was like my brother calling me, you know, and it's like, okay, I can. I can offer this person, this. Another. This other human, my. My love and my support and an energy that will help them. And so it's just really that simple. I just. I love to have the opportunity, and I feel like it's just the great gift of my life to be able to, like, hold that space or give anybody anything that they might need in that moment. And that. That's all it is for me is. Is just, wow, I get to do this. I get to be a person who shares their love. Done. Yeah.

And the qualifications that analytical minds are looking for, I want to speak to that because I enjoy being devil's advocate because I think we live in a world of duality all the time. Hello. So for you, for people that go, wait a minute, she's not a therapist. She's not an MFA or whatever they call it. Marriage and Family Therapist. Mft.

Yeah.

What do you say to them? And are they even your people?

You know, it's funny. Years ago, I would have been much more nervous about that. Like, oh, what makes me, like, qualified for that? Who am I? Yeah, exactly. But what I really discovered was that. What. That was just my own negative self talk, right? The. The voice inside of me that was saying, like, you're not good enough for this, or you're not good enough for that. But there is. I mean, how do you go get qualifications for this? Like, how do you go learn? You know, like, exactly. Like, what. What is the school that you go to? Okay, how do I help people love themselves more? You know, Like, I Don't. If there's a school, I'd like to go to it.

Yeah, the School of Self Love. Oh, my God. That's. Somebody just bought that URL right now. Yeah, the School of Self Love.

That's a good one, though.

Yeah.

But, you know, those people, they can be my people if they want to be my people. If, if they're willing to, you know, just set that part aside and say, okay, so this isn't a traditional route. If you want a therapist, you can go to a therapist. Therapist. It's perfect. It's beautiful. They have lots of amazing things to offer, but that's just not the path that I've taken. And the path that I've taken, again, is just, you know, doing these different. Like my. My internship or I've done Landmark Forum or I've done plant medicine. I've done so many different things over my lifetime that, you know, maybe I don't have a certificate for, but they've all led to experience of being able to just better understand people and being able to just be with them and love them and. And like, at the end of the day, that's my highest qualification, is that I can just be with people and that, you know, to me, that's enough.

There's a model I think, that all of us are looking for from childhood. Whether it's the parental model or the camp counselor model, or like the scholastic model. All of us as young men and women, we're looking as a. As these young eyes to model the behaviors or to be inspired by the model that we're seeing in our teachers.

Right.

And this concept is of being an elder has come up on the show a lot. We talked about it with Paul Check. There's a few other guests that I felt this, this elder in training, and I feel it so strongly with you. Like 20 years from now, there's no doubt in my mind that you will be an elder to so many. Do you have that sense?

Yeah, and I welcome that. You know, and I think I turned 40 this year, which is a really distinct experience. You know, it's like, it's really trippy.

You have the heart of like a 25 year old.

Well, and it's fun. You know, that's the thing is, like, inside I still have that playfulness of like being 12, you know, I just feel that. And I deeply want to stay connected to that, that playfulness and that fun. But there is an interesting thing that just comes with the fact that, like, you've had so much life experience and you Know, I just feel like I hope that I get to continue to build that arsenal experience, to be the best elder. I already feel like I'm an elder. I mean, I really am for my nieces and my nephews, and I really am already for a lot of people in my life. And so I'm like, okay, let's do it. I'll be an elder at 40.

Bring it on.

And at 50 and 60, and hopefully all the way until the end.

What do you think the lesson or the message is that you'll leave here in the 3D when you're gone? What's that message then?

You know, as much as I'd love to say, like, you know, be more loving or be more connected, my thing is really fun. Like, just have fun, laugh, enjoy, enjoy your life. It is such a spectacular freaking gift that you get given.

Yeah.

And if you're not enjoying it, it doesn't mean you can't work hard. It doesn't mean that, like, times can't be stressful or, you know, there can't be struggle or all of that stuff is part of it. But if you're not actually cultivating the energy of fun and playfulness in your life, that. And I think that, you know, you're missing out on such a special intrinsic part of the human experience. And so I hope that, you know, people will remember me as being fun and having fun and, you know, being the fun. Yeah.

But you've earned it and you continue to earn it by practicing the surrender, which was your album title.

Yes.

Practicing the surrender leads to earning the fun.

Totally.

Because people, I think, think fall into traps in life where it's like, my life sucks. I'm not having any fun. This. And then there's the resistance that comes up in that moment of. Of, I guess you could say, transformational possibility. Gosh. Where do people go in that exact moment of being triggered by their life feeling like, I, I can't have fun right now. There's no way I could surrender to this. I don't know if there's an exact answer, by the way, because sometimes I like to ask my guests questions that I'm just not sure of myself. Myself.

Yeah. You know, I think with anything, this is where it really comes down to building that arsenal of tools for yourself. Because I don't think that, like, where you go might be different than where I go in that moment. And so I think this is why it's really important for people to take time to figure out what are my go to things, like when I'M having that moment. What is the thing that I go to? Is it it a place where I just get quiet and sit with it or is it a place where I actually need to get into my body and you know, have a physical experience to work through that moment? And I think it's really important that people discover that for themselves because if you don't know what your go to things are, then your go to thing will just be whatever is there, whatever pops into your mind or whatever someone else might say or whatever. And it's not really you haven't cultivated the practice for yourself. So I think, yeah, it's really important that you figure that out for yourself.

Yeah. Mine is air squats, push ups, inchworms, and jumping on the fitness trampoline.

Perfect.

Seriously. Because I spend a lot of time alone at the computer and so a lot of my moments come when I'm alone where it's like, oh fuck, here comes a moment of surrender. Like, watch out, you know, and then I'll literally remind myself, there's a trampoline outside. Just go jump on it.

Do.

It's a reminder process. And I think to add on the beauty of what you're saying, the surrender is also the reminder that surrender is a possibility.

Totally.

That we could even go to that place.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so many people think that a lot of times they have to be in action. Right. If a moment is confronting, how do I surrender? Yeah. What am I going to do about this? And even surrendering becomes something to do.

I need to surrender.

Right. I'm going to go over there.

I must surrender.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it's, it's really an interesting concept to really massage and get comfortable with. What is surrender? What does it actually look like? Is it me like, I'm going in there, I'm going to surrender in 10 minutes. I got a date to surrender.

Yeah. I'd hang out with you later, but I'm going to surrender soon. So I have a plan, A strategic surrender.

This is a surrendering night.

So, so is it then, then is it then just the practice of it? Is it really, can it be that simple? Then we just practice surrendering?

I think it is, yeah. I think honestly, so many things are so simple. Like we try to over complicate it, right? We try to make it like bigger than it needs to be. And often it's just about being with what is and not trying to force things. Not trying to, you know, over analyze or over criticize or whatever those things are just actually, actually setting it all down.

Yeah. Where does discipline fall into that, then? You and Adam just did a really cool podcast. We'll link this in the show. Notes about first voice and second voice, which I found fascinating.

Yeah.

Because there's a lot of different metaphors in behavioral science. And, you know, the ego says one thing, the soul says another. My higher self says one thing, my lower self says another. But you have this concept of first voice, second voice when it comes to discipline. And by the way, discipline could even be, like, the discipline to allow yourself to surrender. That could be discipline within itself.

Totally. Yeah. You know, I think it's so interesting, because discipline it. When you think about discipline, right. You almost think, like, it's the voice yelling at you.

It makes our eyes beaty.

Yes.

Discipline.

Yeah. It's like the voice that's yelling at you is the one that you should be listening to. Right. You. You immediately go there, like, oh, that's the strict voice. That's the one that, like, tells me I'm screwing up and I need to do better and blah, blah, blah. And a lot of us think of that as, like, almost an awkward experience. But, you know, discipline is really, like, beyond that. It's like, okay, the voice is there, and then what. What are you, the seed of the soul, the observer of the voice? What does that person really want to do? What's important to that? You know, that person who's. Who's removed from that negative or that aggressive voice. And I think that, you know, for a lot of people, it's just about deciding for themselves, like, which voice they're going to listen to. And, you know, there's always going to be that voice yelling at you. There's always going to be that one that's more aggressive and more negative, so to speak. There's always going to be that voice. But can you just say, okay, voice, I see you there. You're there. That's fine. You can be here, too. And now what. And now what's actually important to me. And that's where real discipline lies, because that voice will actually take you on, like, a wild ride. It'll tell you, you should do this, you should do that. Oh, no, you shouldn't. Now you're this, now you're that. It'll. It'll literally, like, run you astray if you allow yourself to listen to that as the voice of discipline. It. You have to actually set that one aside and say, okay, now what am I actually committed to?

And the. The challenge of that? And I'd like. I'd like to Dovetail on what you're saying here. It is that simple to choose totally. One voice versus the other. Good wolf versus bad wolf, Right?

Totally.

The fable exists in Native American folklore for a reason, like which wolf are you feeding?

Right?

You know, are you feeding the wolf of love or are you feeding the wolf of resentment and anger and jealous jealousy and spite?

Totally.

Because they're both freaking hungry. Both these wolves want to be fed. And I'd like to dovetail because I think about the practice of this surrender and really having the fortitude, having the skill set in a way, to surrender. There's a training involved in that. What have you done within yourself to train yourself to feed the courage wolf, to feed the great wolf of love? Because it's not exactly. There's not a playbook for this.

No, there isn't. I think that you've got to kind of train it from a lot of different angles. And one of the things that you can't ignore is that we have a neuro network that was established when we were in our, you know, probably in our mid to late teens is really when all of those neural network superhighways were formed. And so you've got to actually look at yourself and say, oh, okay, the majority of my thought processes were formed in my late teen years. And just give yourself that. Just go, okay, just think about that one thing. Am I still the person that I was when I was 16, 18, 19? And so I think it helps to actually give a diagnostic for the way that the brain is working and to kind of give yourself almost that mechanical aspect of it. Okay. I know that my brain is wired and fired to kind of think these thoughts naturally. So I think just allowing yourself to surrender to that, just to say, like, okay, those pathways were formed a long time ago when I wasn't as mature, I wasn't as developed, I wasn't who I am now. Let me just give myself that. Let me stop fighting the patterns and stop, you know, trying to override that neural network that's there and just allow myself to be like, okay, those are my thoughts. Those are my default zones settings. Okay, I get you. Thank you. I see you. And then allowing yourself to say, okay, now what is the person that I am want to think? What is the thought pathway that I want to develop now? And so giving yourself a chance to really be with the discomfort of trying to break that new pattern, that new habit, that new thought, because it is uncomfortable. Right? It's not natural. We want to go back to those really easy pathways that we.

Magnetism is so strong.

Yes.

Because those neural pathways are like trails in the woods where they've just been carved for, like, decades.

Exactly. Yeah. I would say they're even, you know, they're freeways that have been cemented.

You know, they're like train tracks.

Exactly.

Yeah. You got to rip that up somehow.

Yes.

Some way.

Exactly. So I think. But. But honoring and recognizing, like, no, this is really actually hard. What I'm doing is actually hard because it is not natural to what my brain wants to do. I think that is a really important part of the circumstance, surrender. Because I think in that space, when you feel like, why can't I change the way I'm thinking? Why can't I do this differently? There's a sense of failure and frustration that lives there. But when you acknowledge, okay, hey, it's okay, like, these thoughts are really, really strong. And it is okay that they're really, really strong. They were there at the time. They needed to be there for a reason. Thank you for being, you know, what you were. That's what you needed to be for me at that time in life.

My.

My life. And allowing yourself just to acknowledge it and then getting back focused, okay, what does this person want to do now? And from there, there's just a sense of, like, peace and surrender that comes from just allowing yourself to be with what is actually there.

There's a phrase that I learned a couple years ago. It's called trigger action response. So a trigger will come up, and the action potential comes from the neuropathways in the brain that have been set for decades.

Right.

And then there's the response. What do I do in that of being triggered? What's my action? What's my response?

Right.

So I don't know if there is a easy way to unfold this other than just commit to being in the practice of surrender.

Yes.

And I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that. I will add one more thing, though, and I'd love your thoughts on this. The care of our body, the care of the conduit, if you know, this is why in 12 step programs, they have halt, hungry, angry, lonely, tired. If any of those things are in place. Someone is more susceptible to listening to the fear wolf. Someone is more susceptible to going down the negative route. So, yes, there is this practice of surrender in which you speak, and there's also the aspect of the physical conduit. Am I tired as shit? Did I argue last night? Late? Am I eating a ton of sugar? Do I feel Lonely, like, am I not letting go of something which preventing something new from coming in? So I'd love your thoughts on the conduit piece and the practice of surrender.

It's so funny because we, you know, there's the book. It starts with food, the Whole 30 book. And Adam and I always say it starts with sleep. It starts with sleep 100%. And I actually was just saying this, you know, I. I firmly believe if people were getting more sleep in the world, the divorce rates would go down significantly.

Fascinating.

I really think this because, you know, your sleep is so, so, so important to how you're showing up in the world. World. And if you're tired, it literally, your brain is almost like it's drunk. I mean, you can. It's basically the same as having. Being under the influence. Like, you are not thinking clearly. There is a cloud or a filter or what have you that is, you know, filtering your thought process and it is not you showing up. So, like, I really love that you're talking about that.

Yeah.

Getting sleep is so important for any process, but especially for surrendering and for being in the process of self awareness. And from there, you know, it's all the things eating well, exercising, having some kind of mindfulness practice. I think all those things are so important. But if you don't sleep first, and I keep going back to it because I think it's that important, I really honestly do. And there are people out there who will argue with you and say, I don't need that much sleep. Honestly, watch your life change by getting eight or even nine hours of sleep.

How dare you? How dare you get nine hours of sleep?

So rude.

Slacker.

Being American slacker and sleeping so much.

Yeah, Vanessa, like, I love where we're at because, shoot, if. If we're not sleeping, then there's all these toxins in the brain that are washed at night. And so we'll be walking around more toxic. Yeah. And I think people forget. It's. It's easy to forget, forget. Like, I'm just gonna push the gas pedal down. I'm gonna keep hustling. But there's an element of aligning and surrendering as well. Like, it's funny, even before we started recording, when you came in, you're like, I just feel like I'm not hustling as much anymore. How did you do that? How have you not hustled in. In the past month or two?

Yeah, well, it's funny because one of the big realizations I had at Rhythmia was that I just needed to cultivate more stuff, stillness. And even my meditation practice, which was, you know, technically a practice of being still and being quiet, I had still created that as something to do. Like, it's on my list, it's in my planner. Now it's time to meditate. You know, like, I have, I'm a Virgo, so we love lists, we love organization, we love filling every single moment of the day with something to do and a box to check. That's like our favorite thing ever. But for me, what I've really realized is that having just straight up blank space, stillness, things that are not, you know, scheduled in that time, literally just sitting, like, who does that anymore? Who just says, I'm just gonna sit here and be quiet and I'm not gonna put on the tv, I'm not gonna pick up a book, I'm just gonna sit here. I'm not even gonna meditate. Because that meditating again, it's like something to do. Right now I have to meditate. Like, yeah, it was a huge, huge deal for me to give myself permission just to sit and just to be. And honestly, since I've been cultivating more of that just open space, it feels like you are able to attune to what it is you actually want to create. And when you get into action, you're more in alignment and you're more focused and it falls into place even easier than just spinning your wheels and spinning the energy and almost confusing, you know, the universe. Like, okay, she's spinning this way now, she's spinning that way, which what does she really want? You know, Just giving myself a vibrational space to be has been a life changer for me.

Yeah, scheduling in the stillness.

Yeah, just.

Literally just having a block where there's nothing and it's so from a tactical perspective, somebody could literally just schedule in a two hour block that says stillness.

Stillness. And it doesn't mean that you actually can't pick up your journal and jot down some notes, or you can't, you know, pick up a book and read a chapter. It doesn't even mean that you can't put something within that. But you're not scheduling it as something to be done. You're actually just leaving the open space. You're leaving the canvas blank.

There's people that reach out to me all the time, and I'm sure you too, and they're like, how did you do what you've done? And how did you. How do you start a podcast and how do you do all these things? Things? And I'LL tell you the one lesson, the one gem that I would love to share is if I could change anything, I would have allowed myself to have more dead space. More space where I'm not doing anything. And the reason is, is because creativity doesn't come from a place of constriction.

Yep.

Creativity comes from a space of stillness.

Totally.

And, and this is a creative endeavor. Like, I'm. I'm curious about what I can bring out of our conversation that'll actually help people live their life well. And that doesn't come from me being in a vice grip of what the hell is do I do?

Totally.

Right. So satisfying. The lower level of Maslow's triangle, where it's like, can I. Can I eat? Yes. Check. Check mark. Do I have shelter? Check mark. Am I safe? Check mark. If those three things at the bottom of the triangle are satisfied, well, then we can get into contribution and service and enlightenment and existentialism and all these things. For somebody who's in that state, though, and they're at the bottom of the triangle and they're like, I'm broke, Vanessa. You don't understand, or, I'm going through a divorce. You don't understand. Even the question. You don't understand. Can you give them wisdom or even a reprieve as to where they can go from that state?

You know what's crazy is that when people hear, you know, give yourself space or schedule and stillness or do X, Y and z. One of the biggest pushbacks people have is I don't have time. You know, I don't have the resources. I don't have this. You can create, create and cultivate stillness in one breath. You know, it doesn't. Again, we like to over complicate things. We like to make it, well, I don't have an hour to of my day to be still, but do you have one breath? Do you have five breaths? That's really all it takes. And so I really love to help people to recognize that there are moments throughout the day where you can actually have a full, full experience of stillness, that you can have a full experience of presence. And it doesn't have to be for an hour. It doesn't have to be for 20 minutes. It can be literally one breath, two breaths. And so it's just about reframing what you think that that's going to look like to make space for that in your life. You definitely have time to notice that you're taking one deep breath.

This past week, I allowed myself to cry and then do breath work Afterwards, just because I knew, knew that if it wasn't going to be that, it was going to be the wolf that made me do things that I'm not going to talk about on the show, like really unhealthy choices. So the reason I chose that is because the pain of me doing the thing I didn't want to do was so great that I allowed myself to feel what that would be like. And that's what drove me to just cry and let it out and then sit on my stool in front of the juv naked and meditate. Because I thought, well, this is actually who I am and this is my power. This is all of our personal power to choose at each moment. And I'd love to kind of spiral down into the shame spiral conversation as we kind of lead to the end of the podcast, which, by the way, I could do another two hours with you.

Like, this is really so fun.

No, it's cool, because we both have this curiosity about what's possible.

Totally.

But the shame spiral comes when the, the. The wolf is being fed that's hungry for resentment. So if somebody catches themselves in the shame spiral, how do they get out? How does someone get out of the shame spirit spiral?

You know, I personally think that actually getting into your body at that moment is a really good idea. I actually think that a really powerful thing is to get physical. And that's where I love movement. Because sometimes that energy is so strong that it's okay, you can sit with it. And I love that as an option. But sometimes I feel like it's so strong it wants to propel you into an activity, action. And so if it's going to propel you into action, choose the action it propels you into. And so you can decide maybe that looks like for you, going to yoga or just doing some quick, you know, sprints or whatever it is. But I really love movement for that particular thing because it helps to move the energy and clear it from the system. And I think it can be a really powerful tool, particularly for sure.

Shame. Yeah. And. And the shame one, if. If you look at the scale of Emotions by Hawkins and an amazing book for this is called Letting Go. I don't know if you've heard of it or. And he talks about the vibration of emotions. You know, love is the absolute highest vibration that we could ever experience. It's because love is everything and everything else just gets in the way. So at the bottom, though, you know what the lowest level energy frequency variation is? It's shame.

Yeah.

I would think Shame is the absolute lowest. I think it's less than a hundred. Hundred hertz.

Yeah.

Yet it's so intoxicating. Sometimes it is. It's so familiar for people to drop into shame.

Sure.

And. And Dispenza talks a lot about this. Have you ever experienced a specific moment of shame that you could share whatever you feel comfortable sharing and how you got out of that? Did you ever experience a shame, super low frequency emotion vibration, and that you realized, like, that's a thing of the past. And I got through it by doing this.

Yeah. You know, so it's funny because when we lived in Chico. Chico's. Everyone's heard of Chico State. It's a very drinky town. It's a very, like base level vibration kind of drinky party. Like, there's just a lot of that going on. And so there was a lot of time there where we would party. Like, we would just, you know, we'd go out, we'd drink too much. And then you're like, oh, what did I do last night? You know, maybe I made out with someone I didn't mean to make out with. And meanwhile, excuse me, sorry. I'm married and you're not supposed to make out with people in your marriage. I mean, like, things like that would happen, you know, and it's. It's embarrassing. And, you know, my husband and I, we know each. Everything about each other and all the things are out on the table. So that's not, you know, something he's going to be shocked about. But like, you know, the next morning you just wake up and you're like, oh, I made such an ass out of myself. You know, why did I do that? And really what it comes down to is that when you're perpetuating shame. And I would argue the reason that I was making those decisions, the reason I was attracted to alcohol, the reason all that stuff was happening, was because I didn't have a vibrational frequency of pure joy and love and gratefulness and happiness in my life. There was something, you know, that wasn't quite right for me. And I didn't know how to acknowledge it. I didn't know how to acknowledge. Acknowledge that I wasn't happy. Like, things were not well for me. And so I think the very first step is acknowledging why you're making those decisions on what is happening in your world, that you're being attracted to the vibration of things that create shame. And, you know, obviously some people have had things happen to them when they're a child or, you know, things that happen to them before they had control or made their own decisions. So, you know, I think that it's easy to keep perpetuating that energy. You know, shame begets shame. Right. So you just keep going after that same vibrational frequency, and it's just really about zooming back and saying, why am I so committed to creating this into, you know, embodying this energy? What is in it for me? Because there's something in it for you.

Yep.

You may not really want to admit that or realize that, but often if you really look at it, you realize, well, if I stay indulgent in this shame process, then I don't actually have to take responsibility for myself. I don't have to actually, like, step up and do the hard things that are uncomfortable that will get me out of this shame cycle. And that is the hardest possible thing, is just to recognize your ownership in the process. Process. And so I think it's really important just to look at it and say, like, why am I so committed to staying in this cycle? What's in it for me? And am I ready to leave that patterning? And am I ready to do whatever it takes to step away from this experience?

Let's let that land for a moment. Because that was so powerful, the way that you articulated that. And I think we all can feel that. Like, everybody knows universally what you said is true because it universally happens to us all.

Yeah.

We all tend to find ourselves in shame spirals all the time. Sometimes the frequency is much less. Sometimes the frequency could be every week there's a shame spiral. So I'd like to dovetail on what you said by saying it's okay if we feel the shame.

Yes.

It's like, okay to feel it.

Totally.

There's nothing wrong with feeling the shame. What's the deeper question that you talked about is what am I committed to creating? And I love that. I love that you said that, because what am I actually committed to creating?

Yes.

And. And is that something that my ego and my subconscious isn't ready to deal for, to. To deal with. And that's okay, too, if someone isn't willing to take that deep of an inventory. But wherever you are, like, you're loved.

Yeah.

You're supported.

You are. And, you know, saying, what's in it for you? Or why are you so unwilling to step away from the perpetuation of that shame? That's not a dig, you know, that's not like, that's not bullet. It's not a blamestorm, so to speak. Like, that's Just being with what's there, you know, and it's okay. We have all had periods of time where we're not quite ready. And whatever's within that shame, whatever is within that cycle, is helping you to grow and to expand and will lift later, give you such a deeper understanding of the human condition and such a deeper compassion for what we're all dealing with. So there's nothing. There's not even shame, you know, around being in shame. Like, it's all good. It's all good. You're loved. But it's just good to know that at, you know, at the end of the day, you do have the power to step out of it, and that there is sometimes an addiction that we can get to these things, different ways of feeling, and shame is not excluded in that.

Yeah, And I see this. This has been so incredible with you. Like, I. I knew that we were going to have a rich conversation, but I'm so glad that this got laid down for people for years that can listen to this. And this is why I love podcasting, because this is timeless. There's going to be men and women 10 years from now that'll hear this, and they'll be like, yeah, still rings true for me. So as we. As we combine these physical and emotional worlds, I know there's the spiritual and the spiritual, the physical, the emotional. All of these things are like this Venn diagram. And sometimes that diagram can feed in really strongly for people, and sometimes people like to compartmentalize the spiritual, the mental, and the physical. But in the middle of it, Vanessa, I just feel like this is wellness. This is wellness in the middle of those three. So I'd love to know how you feel today in this experience for you. What is wellness to you? How do you define wellness? Wellness.

Yeah. You know, it's funny because wellness can be kind of this nebulous word that we just put on things that don't really have, like, a distinct definition. And, you know, people throw it around wellness this and wellness that. And, you know, there's wellness programs and there's all this good stuff. But for me, you know, wellness is the art of living well. It's the art of whatever. Whatever those spheres in your life are that need to be nurtured and loved and embodied. Embodied. Have. Have been given the opportunity to blossom and to shine and to. To come back into themselves. And I think for me, that's where the crossover for wellness is. And it could be physical, it could be emotional, it could be spiritual. It could be with your creative body. Whatever it is, the pieces of you that want to be acknowledged and want to be seen and want to be curated are being done. So. And that is what, you know, having wellness and living a, well, life is about for me.

Thank you for the work you do. We started our podcast with breath. I'd like to take a deep breath for you and just allow you to receive how fortunate we are that you're here, that you choose to do what you do, and all the people that are going to be affected in a loving, positive way by your work. And you and Adam both with BE the Wellness. So where can people learn and experience more? The authentic self, the integration for plant medicine and also your trips around the world.

Yeah, thank you. And I received that fully, so I appreciate it. And right back at you.

Welcome.

Yeah, really love being here with you and just sharing space with you and yeah, feel that deep connection and brother sisterhood with you. So thank you. But everyone can find us, me and Adam, at BE the Wellness and BE spelled like a honeybee. So it's B E E the Wellness Wellness. Yeah. And you can find us on Instagram and we also have our own podcast, which we are definitely going to have to have you on.

I'm ready.

So, yeah, let's do it. Maybe even like this week.

Maybe on Monday.

Maybe on Monday. So we have our own podcast as well. And then personally on Instagram, I'm Nesta Tunes N E S T A T U N E S and you can find me there and you can always reach out to me. Also, I monitor the infoethewellness.com so I'm always happy to hear from folks. You can direct message me on Instagram. I'm always happy to connect with people. So that is all the places that you can find us.

Connect with Vanessa and feel the playfulness. And this one was actually really special because we got to record this on Facebook Live. So if you're watching this on Facebook Live, Vanessa and I both will respond to any comments because we went in a lot of rich places today and I'm just super grateful for you and I'd love to sign off by saying this. One comment. Wherever you are, whatever's going on for you, Vanessa and I both are wishing you love and wellness because that's the recipe. Like, that's the recipe for making it through the challenges of this world. So, Vanessa Lambert, thank you for coming on the show.

Thank you, Josh. Love you too.

Amazing. Thank you.

Bye.

Okay, you guys, we'll talk to you soon. And we're talking about this more in the Wellness force group@wellnessforce.com group hey my friend. Thank you for hanging out and growing with me today. Everything you learn on this podcast starts with your morning practices. So from over 200 world class guests and counting, we've distilled the gems, the best of the best science backed practices down into a 21 minute morning system guaranteed to increase the positive flow in your day. Get this free and powerful 21 minute life changing system over@wellnessforce.com M21 if you enjoyed this episode, tap your phone. Share it with someone you care about because that is how we all get better together. Supporting the show is easy. Leave us a five star review right now from your phone. It helps us reach other smart and conscious people like you. Either tap your phone and hit the link in purple that says review this podcast or go to wellnessforce.com review and this show doesn't stop here. We're continuing the discovering process in our private Facebook group. You can be a part of it. All you have to do is go to wellnessforce.com group and I'll welcome you at the door. Okay, now you get to go out into your world and live your life well. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.