285 Luke Storey | Plants & Breathwork: Welcome To The Jungle

You know what high really is, dude? And at the end of the day, it's just a removal of the lower states of consciousness. You know, it's like when you get high, really what's happening is not that you're going higher, it's just that the lower is removed, and you're just where you are. Our capacity for joy and ecstasy and connection to God and consciousness is already high. But it's just being in a human body with a personality and an ego and with all your instincts, it keeps you from permanently accessing that. And if you were truly in that state of kind of no mind, no body all the time, it would be difficult to function back in your meat suit. So it's like, I think that's where the plant medicines and peak experiences like that come in. It's like you get a glimpse of what's on the other side, so to speak.

That's Luke's story. And this is episode 285 of Wellness Force Radio. Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life.

Well.

You can have the same brain.

States as someone who's done an hour of meditation every day for 40 years. There's a lot of losses that we go through. So the ability to be able to.

Cope with those losses is very important.

To build skill in it, because loss will happen. You can be fatigued and depressed, right? So then the challenge is, what's the best order of operations for trying to help someone identify what the root cause of their problem is? Do you like yourself when you look in the mirror? What are you saying to yourself? What do you think about other people? How do you look at the tree? You know, you have to have spiritual courage, to really grow spiritually. Because if you really, really want to take guidance from your soul, you have to be ready to realize that many of the things that you're asking for guidance on, your ego has some kind of an addiction to or an investment in.

What's up?

Hello.

Welcome to Wellness Force. This is Josh Trent, and today is a beautiful day. We're fortunate. We are so fortunate to be here. Wherever you hear this, wherever you're listening to this, if you have breath in your lungs, if you have a roof over your head, if you have food to eat, you're doing better than millions, literally millions of people in the world. I've been feeling into this a lot lately. The power of gratitude. I mean, we all hear about this, right?

In personal development.

The power of gratitude. Some dude on a stage shaking his hands. But I've been Stacking the actual frequency, the energy of being capital B, being grateful. In my morning practice, it's been huge. It's part of our M21 wellness guide. If you have not downloaded your free resource, this is my gift to you. We do a seven day guided breathwork challenge and journaling and so much more. I promise you, if you followed this six part guide for two weeks, you're going to notice a massive difference in how you feel in your body and your spirituality and in your emotions. Head over to wellnessforce.com m21. It's been downloaded by thousands of people. It is a resource for you because I just want to give. It feels good to give. You know, if you're a parent or if you're in health and wellness or if you're a coach or a therapist or a practitioner. Or maybe you're just like that certain personality that loves to give to others. You know that sometimes the only challenge is knowing how much to give and also not having an expectation of having to receive something in return. Our guest on the podcast today knows all about this. The giving, the receiving, the gratitude. This is the one and only Mr. Luke story, my friend, my podcaster in the field. Today we're going to the jungle. You know that Guns n Roses song, welcome to the Jungle?

Was that good?

We're going deep into the jungle in Guanacaste, Costa Rica and we're also going to Luke Stories House in Los Angeles where I got to meet with Luke live and in person for this show. We talked about some incredibly challenging things. These thresholds that Luke dealt with in his adolescent life. Drugs, addiction, abuse, how he transcended these things. This man has done the work, truly the work of breaking patterns of addiction and moving forward in his life. We also explore this concept that Luke talks about as shortening the cycles of recommitment. We talked about Byron, Katie, we talked about God. We talked about alcoholism, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela. We also talked about plant medicine and breath work. How these tools, these ancient tools support healing and self empowerment in Luke and why Luke chose to head down to Rythmia in Costa Rica to do his inner work. This episode was so fun. My friend, he walks his talk. Luke is actually a model of the things that he says. We got to sit in his backyard. I watched him go in the sun. I jumped on his trampoline next to his ice bath. Then we did a biocharger session in his biohacking studio. We took some amazing supplements which I believe were all legal. Go to the show notes page@wellnessforce.com 285 learn more about Luke. Get all the resources and the things we mention on the show today. Wellnessforce.com285 also huge shout, huge love, huge hug to our sponsor Life Aid.

This is official.

I am 100% hooked on the fit aid RX. This is a sugar free drink. It's for recovery. It's built to actually refeed your body with all the vitamins and nutrients it needs after you work out. Like glutamine, glucosamine, branch chains, turmeric, CoQ10 full spectrum B complex. This is now my favorite drink after the gym or even after my nature hikes. I know you're gonna love this too. I test everything that I give to our community and you get the ultimate hookup from life aid. This 0 and 0 Rx. You can get $20 off. It's huge. 20 bucks off 48 cans of the 0 and the 0 Rx. This is the best discount really generous from our friends over at Life Aid bever. Get that 20 bucks off@wellnessforce.com 0 that's Z E R O wellnessforce.com 0 support our friends who support this podcast and our wellness warrior path and also recover better, feel better after you work out. Now let's go live to LA to drop in with the former Hollywood celebrity, fashion stylist, motivational speaker, Kundalini, yoga and meditation teacher, world class biohacker and podcaster over at the Lifestylist podcast, the Man, Mr. Luke Story.

Luke Story. Josh Trent. Wow. What a day. Thank you for having me at your house, man.

A meeting of the minds.

This has been so fun with you. Biohacking, getting sun, learning about all these cool things that affect the body and the mind. But people have learned about you for.

A long time, man.

How long have you actually been doing the podcast?

It will be. Let me see, what are we here? We're May 24th. June 6th will be the three year anniversary.

So in three years you started this always as the lifestylist podcast.

The lifestylist podcast, yeah. My first episode was June 6th, 2016 and it was. That one was called episode one was called return of the Jedi.

Ooh.

Because it was my, you know, like my life story up until that point. And it was kind of a story of redemption. And so I started out with that first episode and now I'm up to 200 something yours included here shortly. And so yeah, it's been a gift, dude, to be able to do what you do. I mean I don't have to explain it to you because you're a podcaster, but God, the opportunity to sit down and talk to the people that I've been able to do that with is just staggering.

So the lifestylist, is it because it's about the style of your life? I mean, is that really the ethos?

It's about building the ultimate lifestyle, whatever that means to you.

Yeah.

Using principles, truths, tools from all different modalities and teachings, whether that be metaphysical, spiritual, physical, and, you know, just kind of how to build yourself into a superhuman real you. Yeah. And I think in the beginning, the name of was kind of a play on my former career because I worked as a fashion stylist in Hollywood.

We're going to get into that for 17 years. We get to learn about that.

So, you know, I, I mean, really I was doing that more superficial art, which is making people look good and going out and finding the best of the best. You know, you get this earring and the shoe and this dress, you kind of put it together, this looks cool together. And that's what I've been doing, curating my own lifestyle for health and well being and all that. And so I think I. In the beginning I thought, well, I'm not, you know, now I'm not really a stylist anymore because I retired from that, but I'm a lifestylist. So you take, you know, this type of breath work and this cold plunge and this, you know, oxygen therapy, the ozone IVs, the this that you put it all together and you have yourself, you know, a nice feeling life rather than a nice looking outfit.

Also, this is what I get from you is I get that you are so in touch with the kid inside the young man. Like, yes, you're a successful podcaster, businessman, you get shit done, you take care of things. So you have a masculine aspect to you and you're very in touch with that youthful, kind of fun, playful kid in there. What did you do in your life that led you to actually connect with that kid? Because it seems like it's pretty present in everything that you do. The enjoyment aspect.

Yeah. If it's not fun, why do it? You know, I. Dude, I am. I do have a very childlike curiosity about life, which I think makes for creating good content because I'm earnestly curious about learning. I love learning, but I also just, I have a rambunctious sense of humor and I just really like to have fun. And I've thought about that because I think for my age I'm pretty silly sometimes, which I think Is a great thing. I'm not putting myself down. I thought, I wonder why I'm like that. I don't know that many people that like to goof around as much as me, but I think I really got it from my dad. You know, my dad is just, he's got coyote energy, you know, and he just always likes to screw around and have fun. Like when I was a kid, he used to do shit like we, he was a rodeo star and so we used to travel around the west and southwest in his dually diesel truck with a trailer of horses behind us.

Rodeo star. Like he would wear the flashy pants.

I mean, no, he, I mean he know, he was low key, he dressed like the Marvel man, but he was, you know, he's a successful professional.

Was it kind of like a John Wayne type kind of guy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Real rugged character, but also a jokester. So we would be on these long road trips and one of his favorites was if I had to pee, we'd just, you know, we're on desolate, desolate, you know, highways out in Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, et cetera. Said, oh, dad, I gotta pee, I gotta pee. And we'd be nowhere near a gas station. So he'd pull over to the side of the road and then I'd step out and kind of open the door and use that as a shield so people couldn't see you if they did drive. Right. And so I'd be there and it'd be mid stream and he'd just bolt, just drive away and just leave me standing there, you know. And it sounds like kind of a effed up thing to do to a kid, but it was, you know, it was all in fun. I mean there were a lot of things that he did trying to have fun that maybe were a little harsh or scary because he was, you know, tough dude and yeah, could put up with a lot that I couldn't handle as a kid and stuff.

Like was your mom also tough or was he more of like the heavier masculine energy, get shit done kind of energy in the home when you were young?

Well, my parents divorced when I was 2 or 3 and so I don't ever remember living with both of them. I lived with my mom and I'd see my dad on the summers and holidays and stuff and mom in California, dad in Colorado. My mom's also super funny though. You know, it's the thing, she has a great sense of humor and she screws around a lot. But in terms of who was, you know, my mom was much more lax and very liberal and born and raised in, in the 60s in Berkeley. And so I could swear and you know, just have fun and be a kid and things like that. And I don't know if my dad would have minded me swearing because he swore like a sailor himself. But he was into hunting and fishing and rodeos and like, you know, there's a firearm within three feet of anywhere he ever is. And you know, he's a no nonsense kind of guy and was a pretty rugged character in his early years and fought a lot and you know, is now a completely enlightened human and has done a lot of work. But back then, yeah, he was kind of the, you know, good cop, bad cop. Dad would have been the bad cop. He was the one I was terrified of.

So you spent a lot of your childhood in Sonoma? Norcal. My grandparents, I was telling you, were from Garberville. So I have these fond memories of like being in nature in NorCal and, and you seem to have this deep connection with nature and it came from this childhood aspect of growing up in Sonoma. But yet it wasn't like perfect nature situation because at some point drugs got into the picture. And I think people see you now as being this voice for not just sobriety, but also for living your life on your own terms. But it wasn't like that for you in the beginning because there was an environment that for whatever reason, your soul contract, however you want to describe it. Yeah, that that environment was not conducive to the highest level of emotional intelligence, physical health. Can you take us to that environment? Because what year was that actually for you when, when they entered in? I think it was super young, I want to say like 10 years old. I've seen you talk about media that drugs came into the picture and the reason we're talking about this by the way, is to see where you are now and to explore the road that so many people find themselves on.

Yeah, I mean, listen dude, being in the throes of any kind of addiction when you're held against your will, that's not a fun feeling. Now if you're, if you're unaware of the fact that you're held against your will, like many of us now are brainwashed by collective media, you know, and paying taxes and things like that, I mean we are held against our will and we don't know it. So it doesn't hurt as bad when you start to wake up and kind of get red pilled on our social programming. It becomes more uncomfortable in one way. But most of us, I don't think, realize we're addicted until it's far too late. When everyone else in the world and the authorities have to come in and say, hey. And kind of shake you and grab you by the jacket, hey, dude, you know, you're screwing up here. You know, it's just kind of all fun and games before that. But, yeah, for me, I mean, it was just like a perfect storm. I grew up in the 70s and 80s in Northern California. And in the late 60s, when Haight Ashbury started to sort of go to pot, no pun intended. And it wasn't like, you know, LSD and the Grateful Dead anymore, but started more street drugs and crime and stuff like that, all the hippies kind of fled the Bay Area in San Francisco and moved out of the city into the country. And so where I was from, in Sebastopol and Sonoma county and out and kind of the boonies, a lot of the hippies kind of went up there and grew weed and stuff like that. And there was a lot of bikers. There was a lot of biker gangs, Hells Angels and stuff. And so environmentally, drugs were really kind of woven into the culture there and were pretty normal. So when I was a kid, you know, if I was at a friend's house, it was 99% likely that there'd be a big block of hash under their mattress or something like that. You know, it was just a lot of people's parents grew weed, and it was just kind of part of the culture. And if you were a kid and you dug deep enough in parents, some parents drawers, you would find other things, too, you know? And so combine mischievous nature with curiosity, with a desire to feel experiences that were other than the norm. I mean, I think I just liked the high. My first high was Jimi Hendrix on 11 on my uncle's stereo. Just listening to rock and roll and being taken to another dimension of reality, you know. And so there was that part of me that just liked that, and I think I still like that. And use healthier means by which to get there, whether it be meditation, breath, work, plant medicine, whatever.

When you say get there, what do you mean by there?

Get there. Get to a place where you're in a witness perspective, being at one with consciousness, observing the phenomenon of your human meat suit experience. That's there.

Yeah.

The trick in life is to be there and be here all at the same time and not have to leave to go there. Yeah, that's the key. But anyway, so a perfect storm of Just the availability, the cultural acceptability. Growing up on Black Sabbath, Sabbath and Cheech and Chong records, I mean, it was just like, duh, of course you do drugs. That's what's cool. And that might have not have motivated me to do so had I not experienced quite a degree, a large degree of trauma, you know, in a lot of things. There was sexual abuse and verbal abuse and, you know, just that kids aren't meant to experience that I didn't know how to hold or contextualize or heal from. And I didn't have. Was. Not that I didn't have the support. I just didn't know where to go for support. And. Yeah, so. So I felt really uncomfortable in skin. And I just, you know, whatever type of intelligence I was born with was not celebrated or encouraged in the school system in which I was brought up. I don't think of myself as, you know, exceptionally intelligent, but I was a pretty bright kid. And on the subjects that I was interested in, I did really well. And the ones that I wasn't, I just completely tanked, you know, So I had a really hard time in school and had a lot of behavioral problems and legal problems.

Were you the kid that the class clown, like, the teacher would send you outside or the troublemaker? Are you the funny person or the.

Yeah, no, I was funny. I never, like, was into fighting and stuff like that. I just wanted to have fun and just the monotony and boredom of school and just. It just. It felt so confining just sitting in a chair. I mean, I was just. I was so full of energy, and I loved the outdoors.

Yeah.

So. Yeah. So how the, you know, I kind of went to the dark side was just through really. I mean, looking back, kind of the fortunate circumstance of my life and that culturally and just geographically where I was at that time, there was a lot of medicine available.

Wow.

And I was a kid who needed medicine. And thank God I grew up in that environment. And it was easy to get a bunch of weed and I could just be high as all day, every day. And that's how I avoided suicide, really. You know, because I thought about it a lot. But if I could relieve some of the existential pain and loneliness that I was experiencing as a kid, you know, I don't. I think now I would have been thrown in a psychiatrist's office and probably given Ritalin or Adderall or whoever.

You were healed in a way, or your healing was catapulted. Even though it was excessive. It was by the plants, like. Yeah, like marijuana at that stage for you was a beautiful way for you to really know what it's like to self preserve. It's a self preservation mechanism. Do you, do you look back on that time and in any way you can be grateful for what occurred?

Yeah, totally, man. I mean, it's like you talked about the soul contract. I didn't know this early in life. Obviously when you're 11, when you're 8.

You don't know about soul contracts.

Yeah, when you're 11 or 12 years old, it's just life is scary and it can be very painful. And, you know, depending on your upbringing and the type of adults that are guiding you and where they are in their own evolution of consciousness, it can be really challenging. And it was really challenging for me. So at the time, there's no way I would have gone like, oh, this is awesome. There's a lesson in this. It was just like, God, I want to die. Why was I born? Why is there no God? It's just like pretty dark. Dark most of the time, with punctuated events of relief or experiencing joy, you know, going outdoors. And I mean, there were, of course, times when I had a great time when I was a kid, but there were also a lot of dark nights of the soul, especially later on as it got kind of more gnarly. But I think that I'm really grateful for the whole rich texture of my experiences because I'm beginning to like the guy that's sitting here across from you more all the time. And the things about myself that I like, I think are largely attributed to the rich history I've had and the experiences that I'm able to go through. So say I would have had a really smooth, kind of middle of the road upbringing that was very cookie cutter and safe and secure. And I would have been nurtured and, you know, not gotten into the trouble that I got into. Well, I, maybe I'd be another kind of great man that's doing good things in the world. Or maybe not. Who knows? You know, maybe I would have been repressed and at 35, ended up married with kids and, you know, cheated on my wife and ended up embezzling from my company and going to prison. Or, you know, it's like you just don't know. Because I know so many people that didn't experience trauma as a kid or at least to a much lesser degree, and they still ended up screwed up up too. So it's like, I think that it's. It's pretty interesting to have had so many different Types of experiences and to have so much depth within one short lifetime of 48 years where I really have been pretty far out to the. The dark side and also had a lot of very uplifting peak spiritual experiences and the like. And now for the most part, other than just regular low level of anxiety that comes from living in a city and owning a couple businesses and having relationships and doing the things that humans do, by and large, my, my world view is absolutely positive and I feel a sense of purpose and connection to source energy to that, that thing that created me and to other people. And I have a lot of love in my life. I'm able to give a lot of love, receive a lot of love. So you just don't know. Had I not experienced those things, would I have the same type of life experience I have now, which is filled with a lot of compassion and empathy for other people. And I'm very much guided and driven to help alleviate the. Of other people in my personal life and professional work. I don't know if I would have that kind of passion if I didn't know what it was like.

Yeah, if you this phrase, walk a mile in someone's shoes and you'll know how challenging the walk really is.

Yeah.

And walking a mile in your shoes. By the way, that whole area up there is so. It has such a mystique around it. Norcal. Like how many films on Netflix are there about Humboldt county and Sonoma and all those areas up there? What do you think it is that actually draws people up there? Because that's where you came from, that kind of adventurous spirit.

Well, there is a lot of beautiful land there. I mean, that's the thing, the redwoods and just the whole San Francisco Bay itself. I mean, imagine the San Francisco Bay without the San Francisco there. I mean, it's just an amazing piece. It's so rugged natural architecture and rugged in the weather and, you know, the, the fog, the, the, that dramatic fog and it's so green and you know, just, I think energetically as a piece of real estate in itself, Northern California is just powerful. Yeah, it's beautiful, you know, and then you have, you know, you have like kind of the hangover of the hippie culture that centered there in the, in the late 60s and even into the 70s. So that's also prevalent there. So it's, it's an interesting place. But when you get out in the boonies, like where I grew up in these small towns, I mean, I mean, it's not like it's a bunch of hippies growing weed, you know, that was a. A small fraction of those communities. It was regular people who have a couple cows and just down to earth kind of country folk. Even though you're still in California.

Yeah, I. I've really enjoyed being at your house, just like hanging out, having deep conversations on your show. And really all this is stemming and poking in and around of this conversation about consciousness, our level of consciousness and the area. I even think back to a story you told about this Rocky Mountain University.

Or what was it called?

Rocky Mountain Academy.

Yeah, dude.

So Rocky Mountain Academy, this is like a spiritual boarding school. But you were 14 or 12 or something.

I was 14 when I got sent there, yeah.

I mean, what was their level of consciousness compared to, by the way? Would that even exist now? That type of.

Oh, my God. They would be sued into the ground? Yeah, it was. They were very experimental there with their modalities of therapy. So essentially, Rocky Mountain Academy, it was a sister school of a school called Sea Doo. C, E, D O. Yeah, cdu. That was, I think no. C, C, E, D, U, perhaps. And that came out of something called Synanon, which was like. It wasn't Scientology. It was this other. It was like a part of EST or something. I don't know. I have to research it again. I geeked out at one point. But anyway, there was the school in San Bernardin, California, way up in the mountains for messed up kids that were on drugs and, you know, juvenile delinquents and such. Their parents would send them there, and the school was so effective at turning kids around that they started one in northern Idaho in a town called Bonner's Ferry, which is north.

Sounds really exciting.

North of Sandpoint. Sandpoint's like a ski town. And it's north of there. It's Bonner's Ferry. Yes. Is a thriving metropolis 30 miles or so south of the Canadian Borga. And it's an old logging town. A big river runs through it. And I mean, it's a bunch of loggers. You know what I mean? So anyway, you were sequestered out in the middle of the woods at the school of Rocky Mountain Academy. And it's like at that time I had gotten in some trouble with the law, and so I basically got kicked out of the state of Colorado because I was on probation. And I was. When you commit, like one single crime, oftentimes the way it works is there's a number of different felonies that they stack onto you. Right. And so this is where plea bargaining comes from. So if you Break into a house, which is what I did, and got caught. Then there's like grand theft, there's breaking and entering, there's Larson, there's burglary, all these things, and there are all these felonies. And if the court was to find you guilty of all those, you'd have a very long sentence. Right? So if you admit to a few of them. Yeah, okay, so I broke in, I stole shit more than a thousand dollars value, whatever it was then. Okay. Then they throw out the other ones that are more severe crimes, essentially. So I got in trouble, and it was in Pitkin County Courthouse in Aspen, Colorado. And I'd gotten in trouble and got put on probation because I never done anything wrong. I was 14, you know, and they caught me like just going ham in this house. And then so they put me on probation and then I smoked weed every day. So I finally got caught smoking weed at school and somehow got back to the judge because this is a very small town. And I went in to see him and he just told my dad and he hated my dad because they. I found out this actually just a couple years ago. They had had some kind of beef when my dad lived there when he was in his 20s and he used to get in all these bar fights. That was an old ass judge who was like either a cop or a lawyer. You know, they knew each other from back then and had this rivalry.

This is like a back to the future mom. He goes back. And it's the same principle.

Yeah, it is, dude. So I didn't know this at the time, but the principal actually just was harsh with me because he was pissed at my dad. And also, I'm sure assumed some responsibility for my behavior onto my dad as a father or his abilities to, you know, discipline me. So essentially when I broke probation, they said, listen, we don't care where you go, but you can't stay here. The bar is closed, kid. Like, you got to get out of Colorado. Because if you choose to stay, the next felony that you commit will land you in a correctional facility, a youth correctional facility. And I was 14. They would have hit me with all of the other felonies that they were kind of holding over my head. And I would have been locked up until I was at least 18, 14, 15, 16, 17, 8. So that would have been four years in a, you know, a kid's penitentiary, basically.

So you went the other direction. You went to this academy.

Yeah. So you. So you could. Okay, so long story long, it was like I didn't want to be there at all. But I knew that the alternatives were much worse. And so I reluctantly agreed to, you know, stay there. Not that I had a choice. I mean, my parents were my legal guardians. They put me under the care of this boarding school or reform school or whatever the hell it was. But anyway, if you. If you messed up at this place, then you went to a lockdown facility. There's one in Provo, Utah. And we were all terrified of that because it had, like, you know, cyclone fences and gates and locked doors. And, you know, it was like a private kids, you know, lockup facility. This place didn't have locks on the doors. You could go wherever you want, whenever you want to go. However, it was so far out in the woods that if you dared try to run away, all they'd have to do is drive, you know, the six miles of town, and they find you on the side of the road and bring your ass back. And they actually had, like, kitty bounty hunters. If you did make it to a bus station or to the Spokane airport, they'd have these professional bounty hunters that the school would call and they would come track you down and bring your ass back to the school. And if you did it a couple times, they would send you to a lockup, which was much worse. So at Rocky Mountain Academy, what happened was they absolutely brainwashed me. They had all of these different. You had your own language there, all these different words that were unique, this vernacular that was unique to their system of. Of teaching or indoctrination. You had virtually no scholastic activities at all, like, no curriculum of.

Did they have you digging ditches, like, doing hard labor?

Yeah, yeah. Building trails, sawing wood, caring for the farm animals, you know, basically doing all the hard labor that they would have had to pay landscapers to do. And also a lot of really good times, you know, out, you know, coming of age, sort of a vision quest, you know, and they'd send you out into the mountains by yourself, and you'd stay there and build a snow cave for three days, days by yourself with no contact. You'd have to just take care of yourself and a lot of character building things. And there was a lot of these longer form kind of seminars within the curriculum where they would sleep, deprive you for between three and seven days. And then they would imprint you with all of this, hopefully healthier information than you had. But really, essentially what they were doing was teaching us all about spiritual principles. They didn't call it that. But there was, you know, a lot of talk and work done around Becoming an honest person and a humble person and being willing and being of service and helping others and love and your inner child and all this. And I think a lot of the trouble they ended up getting into because there was a lot of controversy around this place and it eventually closed, was that a lot of stuff they were doing was kind of like primal scream therapy and gestalt therapy. And a lot of these models that were relatively new coming into the late 70s and the early 80s, and the people that were there being the facilitators of these group therapy sessions and stuff, were in no way licensed or trained professionals. They were just, like, into kind of alternative education.

They were almost experimenting on.

On you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every man there had a beard and word corduroy, and it was just like, you know, it was a little. A little backwards, a little funky.

Do you feel like their heart was in the right place?

I. You know, I do. Many other alumni of that particular school refer to themselves as survivors. So I would be in the minority of kids that thought it was a positive experience, but I know that it. That their heart was in the right place because it did transform me and change me. And I. I was at least sober for the two years that I was there. 14, 16. I did not touch a drop or. Yeah, gram of anything, you know, and so it's good for that two years. And it instilled in me some sort of moral code to. When I got out, I never would have thought of, like, robbing a house or stealing from someone or, you know, just at least, like, I had restored some kind of moral standards. But I just didn't learn about addiction there. That wasn't really part of the training there. It was about, like, building your character and transforming you psychologically and also healing a lot of trauma. It wasn't terminology they used, but this is where. Where being sexually abused came out. And there was group therapy around that and just talking about any negative experiences you'd have as a kid and really getting a lot. A lot, a lot of group therapy and these things called rap sessions and having other kids in a. Almost sort of the group therapy model that's kind of, I think, developed really out of the 12 step movement, where groups of people are getting together, telling their truth. I mean, the 12 steps aren't the first place. Obviously, native peoples from all over the world have had ceremonies in which there's a group of people, people telling their truth and getting support from their community, however large or small it be. But that was the model. There was a lot of Group therapy and I benefited a lot and it really did transform me. And all the sleep deprivation routines that they did, they would do stuff like, you know, I mean, just so many weird sort of exercises. One of them though is where you had to write your own obituary. And then they went through a whole mock death ceremony.

And at 14, that's like pretty profound for the, for the mind of a 14 year old kid.

Tell me about it.

To write your own obituary. Yeah.

And there were others where like they would get you in a really deep state of grief about trauma that you'd suffered and how you're. They had this one thing, one of their theories or kind of analogies was the chrome ball. You know, that that was like your inner child and then all this grime and gets all over your chrome ball as you go through these negative experiences in your life, whether self created or perpetuated from outside of you and you get tarnished. And so the process is all about uncovering that ball. So in one of the deepest moments of looking at your dirty ass chrome ball and being in shadow, your eyes would be closed and then someone would come around and they passed you a photo of you when you were like four. And then you're like really getting into the pain. Yeah. And then you're just like, I was once innocent. You know, it's heavy. And there's just, I mean most of them I don't even remember. There's just, you know, there's a few things like that. I'm like, damn, that was heavy. So, you know, in the context of would that be kosher today? And just some of the disciplinary measures that they took, I mean they would like send kids out in the woods in the snow and they'd have to work alone out there for a really long time.

It's like a really tough love approach. But. But I can sense that, that a lot of it, it has been used to grow you as a man now. You know, you went through a lot of other undulations of like being in LA and lots of like drugs and coming in and coming out. But there was one moment actually that, that touched me and it was this moment where you were like laying on the ground and you were like kicking an addiction and a cockroach.

My Byron Katie moment.

And that was it. And I know we, by the way, Luke, we skipped over a lot. However it leads to my next question, like, what actually is addiction? Like, how do you define addiction? Do you think it's the Gabor mate model where it's like the opposite of addiction is human connection or do you see it as something else? Like looking back at all those years, like where did the addiction really fuel from?

Well, I still have a few of them, so I'm very familiar with it. You know, the, the filler of the back end of that story is too just, I could say it very briefly is kid gets out of this school, feels pretty positive about life, goes back to a regular high school, loses his, starts taking lsd, doing coke, listening to punk rock, hanging out with all the trench coat mafia like, you know, rough crowd, and ends up moving to Hollywood at 19 and lives the rock and roll dream and nightmare until 26 and then sobers up.

But my dad, 19 to 26 was the Hollywood nightmare.

19? No, no, actually it would have been 16 to 26 was like the years of like, woo hoo, we're just going hard.

Wow.

But then, yeah, I moved to Hollywood at 19 and then I sobered up when I was 26. And those are the years of like living right down the street from where we are now and just partying like an animal.

How cool is it to be being a podcaster, being a professional, being known as someone that influe in a loving, powerful way, being so close to where the addiction was taking place. Like that's gotta be an interesting vibe.

It's weird. Yeah. You know, it's really strange sometimes driving by certain corners and you're like bing. And a memory flashes and you're like, oh damn, there's a dark memory from that corner or a fun one from that corner and stuff. Even right on the corner of Crescent Heights and Sunset down the street, which is Laurel Canyon, changes names when it hits Sunset. And there was a club there called the Coconut Teaser. And this is probably like the first rock and roll nightclub that I really started going to on a regular basis and saw so many great bands there. And it was where I played my second gig as a bass player. And I had a fake ID. I was only like, I was 19 or 20, I had a fake ID so I could go play these shows. And it was like this Mexican kid, his name was Manuel Luis Cordova and it was a California ID I just found on the ground. He was like 5 foot 6, really dark skinned Latino guy. And I got into clubs with that all the time. And then finally one day I was playing at the Coconut Teaser down literally like a half mile from where we're sitting. And I walked up to the bouncer and I was in there all the time. And one day he just was like, Let me see your id. I was like, dude, I'm playing. I'm playing tonight, you know? And he's like, let me see it. And he looked at it. He was like. He was a Latino guy. I was like, oh, really?

Really, Manuel?

Yeah, yeah. I was like, not having it. But anyway, back to. Back to your question. You know, what is addiction? I mean, it's a really interesting human phenomena to examine because I think it has a different meaning to every person who's had an experience with it. And when I say I still have some, I mean, I would say, say it's a fine line between habituated and addicted. But I'm pretty addicted to my phone. I think if I had a choice over it or if I knew, I know that I do have a choice, but if I was more aware of that choice, I would probably look at my phone less. I would probably refresh Instagram way less than I do at night. I get an idea that I need something sweet in me, and I can't stop myself from eating something sweet oftentimes. And I don't want to do it. I'm doing it against my will. If you ask me at 2:00pm, hey, Luke, should you eat a pint of ice cream tonight? I'd be like, oh, no way. I'm definitely not doing that. That can't be good. And then there I am at 11pm, like, I'm running the store, I gotta get some ice cream. You know? Habits of thought. Being addicted to thinking. Thinking a thought that hurts, and I just can't stop thinking it. But they did it to me, those fuckers. Those fuckers. And I can't stop that thought. I mean, that doesn't happen to me very often anymore, thank God. But so in my own subjective experience, I think, well, what am I addicted to now? And it's usually something that there is a benefit from and a consequence to. And I'll do a thing until the benefit outweighs the consequence. But there is a place at which one arrives where the consequences by far outweigh any benefits and in some cases, completely nullifying any benefits that were ever present. And yet you still can't stop. And that's the place that I have arrived many times in my life, but not since I was 26. You know, that one stuck. But that's like when you're doing things against your own will that you don't want to do because you're just compelled to do so. Almost as if you're possessed or you're a puppet and there's A puppeteer walking you around saying, doing different things. You know, it's like when you're driving your car down the street street, and your higher self says, don't stop at the liquor store. Don't do it, don't do it. Just tonight, man. Just tonight. You got that interview in the morning and then the, your hand just starts like being magnetically pulled to the right. And next thing you know, you're in the parking lot. You're like, no, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing this. No, no, no, don't do it. Look. No, no, no. And then Cha Ching, thank you sir. And I'm like, ah, how did this brown bag get in my hand? What the. You know, and then the guilt and the shame that comes with it. And that, you know, that's really the thing that sucks about addiction. Whether it's sex, pornography, gambling, cigarettes, sugar, overeating, spending, you know, binge shopping, running up debt, all the different drugs and alcohol, the mind altering substances, is that when it's starting to take hold of you, it becomes very demoralizing because you have like at least some degree of awareness that it's getting you. And so there's, there's, there's the shame that you're dealing with from your trauma and from your pain that is causing you to need relief, to need anesthesia of some kind. And then your higher self, at least to some degree is usually going, you shouldn't be doing this. You're better than this. You're up. And then the mind, the ego, the body, the things that are craving that relief compel you to do it anyway against the will of your higher self. And then that ego or shadow self or mind comes in, says, you fucking loser, you did it again.

Again. So right there is when we need the pattern interrupt. Yeah, that's where we have to bring it in. Yeah, that's where we get to bring it in.

And then that shame, that shame, then self perpetuates and you go back again, like, I might as well do it again because I, I'm already a loser. I already failed when I tried to quit said thing.

There is a concept that I've read about in multiple, like behavioral books and it's the cycles of recommitment. And I, I believe they talk about in 12 step. I don't know, but it's the time between when one is on the path of good and self love and not going into cycles of shame and addiction and loops. The shorter that time is where someone can recommit. Then eventually, those cycles of recommitment become very long. And for some people, the cycles don't repeat anymore. You just stay committed. So this shortening of the cycles of recommitment, you've done probably multiple programs. And Byron, Katie was a huge part of your life. I mean, you even said that was what led you to cockroach the moment.

Yeah, well, it's just funny because her, you know, her origin story includes her having some sort of nervous breakdown and sleeping on the floor and being terribly Suicide. Suicidally depressed and then coming to and having cockroaches march across the floor next to her. And when I interviewed her, I was like, you know, it's so funny. I had. The cockroaches were like my spirit animal, too. Oh, my God. In that sense. Yeah. Because I did. I was, you know, coming to periodically in the middle of one of my episodes and. And, yeah, like, lean over, laying on the floor in a living room, no bed, and, you know, leaning over and just being like, oh, God. And seeing the cockroaches walk by and then being kind of too apathetic or physically weak to even try and address the issue and get rid of them.

Just in that moment, what was going on? Were you, like, on the floor, detoxing?

Yeah. Yeah. And just really lethargic and without vitality, you know, and. Yeah, just of kind. Kind of, you know, resolving myself to going, oh, well, there's that, you know, there's. People have had much more traumatic experiences. That's the thing, though, about any kind of trauma or addiction is it's. It's very much a subjective experience. Meaning your pain is as painful to you as their pain over there. Even though objectively looking at the things that happened to them, maybe some guy. I know, guys that have been in prison multiple times, had been cut and shot and all kinds of stuff, and then finally was like, okay, I give up. I'm gonna get my shit together. Whereas me, I'm just like, yeah, there's a cockroach, but that cockroach. To me, morally, I'm experiencing my own level of pain to the degree that that person's experiencing their degree of pain. Do you see what I mean? Yes, of course. So you can't really compare apples and oranges in that situation. But sometimes, because I know so many more hardcore people than me, I feel like kind of a poo butt, that that was my moment when, I mean, I have friends that have such gnarlier stories. But that's, again, ego doing that comparison thing. Reality is, for me, it's Just. That was just. It wasn't like a cockroach freaked me out. It was just. That's a sign that this is where I've arrived. And that what had been formerly a very thick, opaque veil of denial and like, no, I'm just rock and roll, man. I'm in fun. Live free, die young. Like, that started to wear really thin. And then in that moment, it was like, oh, man, I. I literally cannot hide from my truth anymore. My truth is that I'm killing myself and I don't have much longer to live or be a somewhat functional person. In other words, like, next comes your cruising the shopping cart down the street with dreadlocks and a really bad sunburn. And that's, that's the next. I mean, that's the next phase of evolution. Or you start using needles and then you end your life too soon, accidentally or otherwise. And so it was like just kind of the warning sign. And dude, just, you know, just the pain. I feel. I feel so much empathy for people that are in the throes of any kind of addiction because. Because the pain of just the shame and the demoralization which comes with doing the things that you end up doing when you're in that world and the people that you're around and just the moral degradation and the things that, you know, you're willing to do when you put yourself in those situations that you would never do in your right mind, you know, the lengths that you'll go through, the desperation that you feel, and then always trying to stamp out that pain, you know, so. So that's, to me, makes life really interesting because once you've been down that road, it's just like everything else is gravy. I'm sitting here, you know, sometimes I get spoiled and I'm like, eh, why isn't this room bigger?

I want to kombucha's flat.

Yeah. You know, and so you know that you of course, acclimate to your, your, Your altitude. You know what I mean? And I'm acclimated now to a much, much, much higher quality of life. But. But I still remember what it was like. And I think that keeps me at least a little bit down to earth and relatable.

And I think this is why people trust you.

When I walk by a homeless guy that's 48 years old on the street, dude, I don't think, like, what a loser. Take a shower. Why don't you get a job? I think, oh my God, Luke, that's fucking you. And I mean, I feel that, and that's on a, that would be on a good day. I mean, you know, most people that go down the path that I went down don't come out the other side and like, well, I'm okay. I just kind of sleep in a tent.

What was different about you? Like what was really different about you then? To be able to grace.

Grace was different about me. I just was blessed with a small ember of fire that was a desire to live and a desire to arrive at a higher potential than I was. You know, there was just some like grain of sand of self worth that was like, dude, you're you. This can't be it. You know, it's like, I don't know, maybe being a, you know, a manager at the local, local auto zone or whatever, you know, like any level of stability or success and not put anyone down, that's the manager autozone. I'm just saying, having even just a regular kind of humble down to earth life would have been a huge success at that point. But you know, here I was in Hollywood trying to be a rock star. I mean my dreams were way bigger than that. Be they based in an egoic need for recognition and fame or just healthy self expression of an artistic ability. I mean I wanted to go places, you know, and I could see certain circling the drainage is literally flushing myself down a goddamn toilet every day. And so yeah, I think some of us are lucky because we just get that, that seed of hope and then we get the grace that just gives us that one little iota of reality that helps us see there might be a way out. And really going to that school dude that we were talking about, I mean that was a huge part of it because I did develop some self esteem there and I did work on a lot of my trauma and go through a lot of therapy and cared about myself a little bit and had meaningful connections with my friends, like good buddies and we loved each other. And you know, I had a mentor there, Tim Brace, who was the, you know, like the director of that school. And he was the only adult I really ever trusted. He was definitely the only person at that point in my life that I'd ever listened to. He said, hey, I think you should do this. And I go, okay. I mean I never listened to anyone ever. I just couldn't trust anyone. I was too defiant. So I think that really paved the way for, you know, it took a long, long time to get back to caring about myself. But I think that's where I gained access to that, you know, the Sense that I was worth more than just totally throwing it all away.

You talked about this seed of hope, which is a really cool metaphor. Do you think that seed of hope could be divine? God, consciousness, spirit, however you want to label it, it doesn't really matter. What is that seed that you're talking about? And why do you think it was planted for you? Did it come from you or did it come through you?

I think that my desire for God was given to me by God and that the God within me is looking for itself and to have experience of itself, and that I got so disconnected from that that I would use other means by which to access that or to at least simulate the. That, you know, it said that alcohol in itself, which is one of the worst drugs, by the way, I mean.

Like, yet completely legal.

Yeah.

And pushed on every billboard, on every.

One of the most dangerous, man. I mean, it really. It makes you mentally ill. I mean, really, alcoholism is, I mean, so much more serious than people realize, man. It is a really gnarly disease. You know, when someone's an alcoholic, full blown, their whole family gets disturbed, destroyed. I mean, it wrecks everyone around it. So the interesting thing about alcohol is that if you look up the root of the word spirits is the Latin is espiritu, you know, which is the spiritual realm and the spiritual domain. And Carl Jung even wrote letters to Bill Wilson, the co founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, where he talked about his failure in so many cases to cure alcoholics. And he said that the only time he'd ever seen them succeed in sobering up was if they truly devoted themselves to spirituality or religion and they had some sort of dramatic conversion experience that struck them sober. And he surmised that at the core of every alcoholic is a deep desire to feel and experience God, and that that's what you're trying to achieve. And if you're someone who has that particular DNA match like I do, and some of my friends do, where, like the minute you touch something, you just pretty much start doing it every day, kind of, you know, what you call addictive, personal. There are people that have a thirst for God, you know, and they don't know it, and you just know that you don't feel right. And that's why most people that I know, and this isn't true of everyone in the world, I'm sure, but in my own experience, the people I've rolled with, the way out for, all of us from that is developing a relationship with God, a God of our understanding, you know, it's Identifying that there's a power that's greater than one's own limits, limited self alone.

I love this, you know, I mean.

Each one of us has power. We have will, man. The human will is strong. Yes. I mean, look at Gandhi or a figure like that, Martin Luther King.

I mean, people that have just faced Mandela.

Yeah. That have faced just massive adversity and overcoming. That's the human will, but there's also grace backing them. Right. And so I think that the. The people that get this thing figured out and get saved, so to speak, for lack of a better term, are people that identify. Ah, I have a yearning, God. And that living some spiritual framework of life is going to help me alter my perception of my life experience so that it doesn't hurt anymore. A b when it does hurt, I'm going to be able to contextualize that discomfort and pain as a lesson that's worth living through and surviving and learning from. Right. So that I get past that level of earth school and I can move on to the next level where now I'm facing some other bullshit that I need to grow through. That's painful.

Right?

So. So it's like the spiritual way of life is the way out of that because it provides the grace and it also gives you a way to internally change your perception of reality so that you don't have to use exogenous forms, whether it be approval of others or heroin or whatever, like whatever extreme gets you off and gets you high, you're much less likely to be. Be at prey to that. When you have a natural and instantaneous way to reframe your reality, which is staying in conscious contact with a higher power and understanding and practicing spiritual principles so that in the heat of a moment when life triggers you as it does, you don't think to turn to, you know what, I better drink over this or whatever. It's like you go, oh, there's. I'm disconnected from God. That's what the problem is. You know, if I'm ever frustrated, lost, discontent, it's just that I'm with ego, I'm with mind again, and I've shut God out of my experience. And so life starts to close in on me and feel very scary and threatening. And if I don't know that the problem is just that I've disconnected from God, then I'm going to go connect to something else to quickly change my perception. I mean, dude, if you. If you took five shots of whiskey right now, the way you see this room, me, your day, this podcast, your Whole life would dramatically change.

I like it better without the whiskey, Luke. It's much more fun without the whiskey.

You know what I'm saying?

I totally do calorie shift.

Whiskey's quicker, wine is finer. But see, building a meditation practice slowly over years and years, doing plant medicines, all of the books, all of the things, all of the podcasts that so many of us listening and recording now do, those are natural and more sustainable ways of altering, altering your perception and experience of reality so that reality becomes less painful and so that your resistance to these experiences and also your ability and tendency to create painful, conflicted situations in your life decreases over time. You know, you don't create drama because you know how to stay connected to who you are. And if you stay connected to who you are, there's just less drama. There's still drama, still happens, but it just becomes more sparse.

I want to go back to this moment where you talked about the disconnection from God. In those moments where, like, something heavy will happen, there's trauma, there's an event that happens in life, and people forget for a second that they have a connection to a higher power. This is what I've been heard described as the spiritual malady, where somebody forgets that they had a belief that was very strong at one point, that it was not life, was not just about them. It wasn't about just their suffering. It was about something way bigger than them. Can you describe this concept of the spiritual malady and what that actually means? Because I've heard a lot of people talk about. About it, but what does that actually mean when someone's going through a spiritual malady?

Yeah, I'm familiar with the term. I have to say for myself, that would be having an orientation to life in which you feel that there is no purpose, that you can't take in the divine order of things. You can't access it, you can't see it, you don't believe it's there. So it's sort of like atheism or agnosticism, where you don't believe in God, but you still believe in something. You still believe in a certain framework. Oh, I believe that there's no God is a belief, just like believing there is one, right?

Absolutely.

Or whose name you know? Is it Jesus? Is it Buddha, Christianity?

It's like people that say they have no belief. They're still having a belief that they don't have a belief.

Every human being is run by their beliefs, no matter what you want to call them. So a spiritual malady is like A spiritual illness, you know, and it's. It's like, say you take a human emotion or sensation like loneliness. I just. I feel apart from people. I don't feel connected. I think that a spiritual malady perspective of that would be that it's not like I don't feel connected to people, and I feel lonely for people. I feel alone and lonely in the universe, you know, in a universal global experience. I feel that as an entity, I'm not connected to anything and I've lost my tether to some sort of meaning or purpose. Purpose. And so it's an existential loneliness, not just like, ah, it's kind of a rainy day, none of my friends are calling loneliness. It's like I am alone in this universe, floating in space, and the mothership has drifted off and I'm just kind of like waiting to freeze over, you know. And that's a feeling that I know very well. It's a feeling that there's. There is no God. I mean, there's no other way to say it. It's just if there's no order to things, if there's no first truth or first law or first principle, then there's not unstable to hang on to, you know, and this is really the foundation of Western culture and why, you know, despite its faults, it's been the most advanced civil civilization that we've had. And when I say that, that doesn't mean I'm against others or don't see the value in others. You know, it's like if you love being American now, you're like labeled a racist or something, which I totally don't understand. I love America.

I love America.

I also love Thailand, Brazil, the uk. I love Thailand, man. I love me some Thailand, Mexico. There's a. A lot of different places and cultures and, you know, but it's just. I think it's great here.

This is what I sense from you. You have this. You see what I mean? You have this part of you that's. It's this kid that wants to continue to explore. And a lot of men, A lot of men lose that. A lot of men lose that. And I think it's because I've heard this. Actually there was an episode back when there's the Art of Charm. And there was a gentleman that was being interviewed and he said the second leading cause of death in the UK for men over the age of 40 was actually loneliness and a lack of brothership and band of brothers. I mean, of course there's chd, but then below that is Loneliness. And really, like, where we've danced around sitting in here is this loneliness epidemic, right? The opposite of. Whether you believe the opposite of addiction is connection. The opposite of loneliness is a different kind of connection than the opposite of addiction. Because with loneliness, like, loneliness is a totally different recipe to really, truly feel alone. Alone. How do you think that our society now can address loneliness? And, like, what's your role in that? Like, how are you with your show and your. And your energy? How are you being a reprieve to loneliness?

You know, it's funny. I don't know if loneliness can be relieved by listening to something on some headphones.

I don't know. I feel like we're together with these people right now.

Well, you know, it's actually interesting that, professionally speaking, being a solopreneur now, right? And spending a lot of time in this room by myself. And even the majority of the work that you do on a podcast, aside from the actual conversation, as you know, is alone. So it's interesting that the work that I do connects so many other people to me in a way, but it doesn't connect me to them until I go to an event. Like, I have an event tonight, and I'll go there and undoubtedly meet quite a few people that listen to the podcast, and they're gonna be like, oh, I remember this thing. Remember that thing? We know about you, and I have yet to know about them. So that's. That's a really neat experience because then. Then, like, oh, my God, I'm creating this whole sort of subculture, a mini micro.

Fills your heart, doesn't it?

Yeah, micro subculture. And you get to meet them and hear about their experiences. And that's very cool. But I do spend actually a lot of time, you know, by myself. And so I think, you know. You know what it is, dude, is that loneliness is really. It's a frame of mind. Because there were times in my life when in those years in Hollywood, I mean, I'm out in the clubs every night. I've got. Got all these air quotes, friends on my pager. I'm going back. And I mean, I'd be in a party, and I would just feel so alone and just so destitute and just so gray and numb. And there's people around partying, having fun. I'm just sitting there going, oh, my God. Like, I need to touch something physically with my hand just to feel like there is something solid under me, you know? And so it's not about how many people you're around. I think I think it's, you know, the loneliness, which is a human plague, you know. Yeah, you need human touch, you need human connection, but it's also a connection with oneself and not abandoning oneself. So that if I am spending time physically alone, I'm not alone, because I'm there having the experience of enjoying myself, experiencing joy within my own being. Oh, now I'm sweeping the floor. This is Luke enjoying Luke sweeping the floor. You know, it doesn't have to be anything meaningful. Fuller world changing. And when I can appreciate myself and really be there for myself in that sense, then when I'm with other people, I already know how to be present because I'm present with me. And so when I sit here with you, I mean, I'm looking deep into your left eye, dude. I'm not just like glazing you over as some vague entity in front of me.

No, you're totally present, really connected, you.

Know, and so when there's the moments of human connection, then I really savor them. Whether it's a group of people or one person, you know, it's like, I'm really here. And that's, you know, it's one of the biggest compliments I've recently been given. You know, where I was having a talk with my girlfriend and we're just talking about how much we like each other and how great it is. And she went, man, you know what? Something so cool about you is that you're just really present. I feel like you're really paying attention to me and you listen to me and you're there and I mean, it's nice to hear, but I'm kind of sitting there going, well, duh. What, what? Of course, you know, what else am.

I supposed to do in this current moment other than be present?

Yeah. But I got to remember there was, you know, a huge swath of life where I didn't even if someone said that to me, I wouldn't even know what they're talking about. Like, what do you mean present? Like, of course I'm standing right here. But that's not the type of presence. It's the presence like, hey, man, my heart's with you. I'm connected to you. I'm devoting my time and attention to you, and I care about you. It's a different kind of presence. And that's the antidote to that loneliness is being able to be at a point where you feel comfortable by yourself. And within that, then you can bring that comfort and, and that security and self confidence, if you will, out to Interact with other people, and you create two holes together, working together in an interconnected way rather than two separates, two lost, two lonelies thinking that one is going to make a whole. You know, it's becoming whole yourself and adding to another whole. I mean, that's the goal.

You nailed it. You totally nailed it.

Like, I mean, do we. I don't know who ever really achieves that, but that's the goal. And, you know, you get a little better at it little by little.

There's phases where in life I have been so uncomfortable in my skin. And I know in talking to you, like, you might be this present Luke story now, but there's definitely been phases where you weren't comfortable in your own skin.

Oh, my God.

Right?

Sometimes still, of course, this is the human experience, right?

So I have this sense, and where this conversation is leading is there is a place in all of us, us that here in this system, you know, we have money as a way to exchange energy, right? So as we exchange energy from a monetary perspective, there are people that get challenged. Like, it's almost as if someone's navigation for being their authentic self gets challenged. Especially Luke, especially in media and podcasting. In any environment where knowing the right people, having the right relationships really benefits one person. Person. I've had people that have reached out to me because I was thinking about the moment where you said, you're at the club and you felt alone. And I've had moments just in doing the podcast where I know somebody's reaching out to me just because they kind of want something, and I can feel that energy. And I think this is actually like more of a philosophical question to you. How do you, as a conscious media creator, stay grounded in an environment where at any point in time you could choose authentic connection, connection or doing something because you know it'll benefit you the most.

That's good. It's such a slippery slope. That's. That's really cool.

How do you operate in there?

That's really cool.

You can sit here and be like, josh, I always do the authentic one.

Oh, no, man. No, no, no.

I mean, what do you actually do?

Listen, just the whole premise of growing a brand and marketing, I mean, just by its very nature, includes a certain degree of persuasion strategy. There's tactics, there's influence, there's nlp, there's all kinds of that's going on, whether intentional or not, to get what you want in your life, right? So I'm no idiot. I know if I know this person and they know that person, sure If I'm honest with myself, I might give this person a little more of my time because I'm trying to get to that person. I mean, that's real talk.

Let's be honest about it.

Yeah, well, that's. Yeah, that's. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Neither do I. I think it's kind of the game we're playing. Yeah, it's a fun little game.

That said, if one lacks the awareness of that, then you get into this vampiric, parasitic taker energy. And so to me, to counterbalance. And it's funny, I never thought about this, but you're making me think about it, which is amazing. You're a great interviewer for that reason. To me, it's about intention. And is the intention and mission in my life to just get shit for myself so I'm safe and secure. So my little ego animal feels. Feels rich, famous, happy, sexy, whatever. Or am I doing it to get the shit that I want? And also to leave a mark and positively imprint energetically the world and to actually share love and caring and kindness with people. And I know that I care about people. I know that I love people. And I also know I want to be the next Tony Robbins or whatever. If that's my karma, I, you know, I don't know. That is. But let's just say I'm thinking really big. Like the biggest podcast, a TV show, books, like Be the Guy, 2 million Instagram followers, you know, whatever.

Right.

And you know, those ambitions I think are normal and natural. It's just like, what's, what's your motive and what's your intention? And if, if I'm honest with myself, sure, man. Some of the motive is like, yeah, I want to feel valuable because I'm still working on my self worth. And I know if enough people tell me me that I'm loved, then maybe I'll be able to feel it. I mean, that's there, you know, it's really honest, man.

Thank you for sharing that.

Well, I mean, it's just, you know, it's just. It's the way it is.

Well, this is what most people don't want to explore though, so thank you for sharing it.

It's. To me, it's fun, you know, because I. These are the, these are the things that come to me in a float tank or in a plant ceremony or doing breath work or sitting in the sauna or in an ice bath anytime I'm alone. I mean, these are in the Theta state. This is the, that bounces around. It's like, like applying self honesty and really looking at your place but doing it from a place of observation, not a place of judgment, you know. And that's the really tricky thing when you're looking at shadow or ego. Looking at mind is that same shadow will come and say you got a shadow, you're bad, you're a loser. And it's like no, no, no, you can't allow that to happen. So I have to be able to look, be as honest as I can, be as humble as I can, be as real as I can with you and with myself, but also go yeah, yeah. And that's okay. So sure, if I answer one person's email faster because they have the ability to make me some money or make a connection and I blow off this other person for three days because I'm like eh, it's a lower value relationship or interaction on one level, that's fine. Yeah, that's perfectly fine if I'm aware of it. If I'm just a rapacious, you know, energy. Yeah. I mean if I'm just like burning through people and just getting what I want, getting what I want. And, and I'll know that, that because I won't be fulfilled, I won't feel happy. And when I, when I get the thing that I think is going to make me happy, it won't work. And then I'm on to the next thing. And this is where you arrive at the existential crisis of like I got the house, I got the wife, I got the this, I got the dad, and I still want to kill myself, which many people have experienced. And that's not a place I want to arrive at. I would like to arrive at a place where I'm extremely satisfied with who I am, where I am. And I also have a natural human desire to expand and have more of that.

I heard someone describe this in such a powerful way. His name's Brandon Hawk. I don't know if you've heard of him before. He's in Austin, Texas. Shout out to Brandon Hawk. Brandon powerful coach, creator. I've never worked with him. I've just, I've just watched some of his content.

Yeah.

And he said the energy of how you start any project, passion or mission in life is the energy of how it will be sustained. The energy of how you start something is the energy of how it will be sustained. So if someone, someone's like hey, can I talk to you? Because I really want to get to this other person and, and they're looking at their life as a continuum, then that same kind of taker energy, that same kind of pulling down energy. It's unsustainable. It's a. It's a scarcity thing. And I felt it too.

Like it's taken.

It took me four years to have this conversation with you. And it was a natural unfolding, right. Like it's an. It's a feeling of. There's a feeling of friendship more than a feeling taking when it comes to this conversation. Because I know that we both operate in a world where our voices are valid and people are listening because the same truth in us is the same truth in them. Yet there's still a part of me that just like, wants to sometimes burn everything to the fucking ground and just be everyone's friend. Like, that's really what I want to do. And I'm figuring out how to do this human thing where we have business and sponsorships and all these different things. But that's what I see in you, man. And I just wanted to acknowledge that, like the way that you've operated and grown the lifestyle is really movement of designing your own life. It's come because you had such a dark contrast like you had. You went through so much shit for so long to be able to be where you are now. I just want to acknowledge you for that.

Thank you. I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. The will to. The will to grow and expand, you know, which is. Which is a gift to have. You know, sometimes I wonder if it's a gift or a curse, you know, because you look at someone, Joe Six Pack goes to work the factory punches the clock, come home, watch the football, wife makes a TV dinner, you know, goes to bed, you know, none the wiser, right? And maybe doesn't have a very dynamic life, but is relatively happy and satisfied, you know, does that guy or girl have it easier than the renunciate monk who, you know, had his job on Wall street and the Ferrari and is unfulfilled and gives it all up and goes and walks the Himalayas for the. The rest of. Of his life to find God? You know, it's like, which is the easier path and which ones?

Which is the more fulfilling path?

Yeah. And you know, which one gets you where you're going. And for me, I think the path I've chosen is the one where I want to break through walls. And I don't know for sure you get more than one lifetime, but I have a sense that you do.

And, well, this leads to the the last round of questioning about plant medicine that I want to ask.

Yeah, okay. So, you know, just in closing to that, I really do get the sense that each incarnation of however many we get is just really, really valuable, you know, and it's like, I was given a body, dude. My parents and creation gave me this really weird meat suit. And I'm in it for however long I'm in it. And this meat suit allows me to go have rich experiences and have lessons that you can't get when you don't have a meat suit and you're just living in the ethers as energy or consciousness, intelligence. So it's like, okay, I got this body for this amount of time I got to do this, you know, so I'm going to have. I'm going to make as much progress as humanly possible. And so in so doing, you know, you realize that the end game is helping others to make progress and serving, serving, serving is where fulfillment and true joy and happiness comes from. But along the way, it's fun because you get some of the spill off and crumbs from the that too. It's like, oh, cool, I live in a nicer house now. I have a better car, like, more wonderful partner. And all of these things keep increasing, increasing on the physical plane. But it's just because of the desire to surrender to God's will and to know that my karma, destiny, fate is in better hands than I could ever make up on my own.

The surrender, the awareness. This is like the recipe that I've heard from you. Being aware that one is moving in the right direction without the ego being a veil and. And being conscious about being of service to others. Those two together.

Yeah. Well, because if you get all the gold and you don't share, you don't get to keep it.

Yeah.

You know, so all the nuggets of wisdom and experience and. And even things on the physical plane, you know, having a fat superfood and herb cabinet, you know, it's like, friends come over, like, take whatever you want, man.

I'm not like, oh, you have some gems in there.

That supplement cost me 50 bucks. Don't take it. You know, it's like, I don't even think. Like, that's how I used to think, though. Or I'd be like, you took one of mine. I want one of yours. Like this sort of debit system with all my relationships. Oh, God, it's just so boring and tedious to live like that.

Yeah.

But to, you know, at least aim at serving others and being There for others. You. You end up winning more that way. And also, I'm still totally selfish sometimes and don't think about. Yeah, I'm totally unconscious at times.

You know, the way that you.

And that's the great thing about relationships. You can have people around you that are like. Like, hey, douche, look what you just did. And you're like, ah, damn it.

You know, I ate all the yogurt.

Sorry. Yeah.

The way that you shared. I. I saw your. Your video when you're at Rhythmia, the one that you did on Instagram, and I was there for the whole thing. I just happened to be on at the same time.

Oh, cool.

And the way that you shared, man, and the exploration that you went down. I mean, I'm not going to lie. Like, I. I supported you going down there. Like, I. I made some connections and I. And I feel so proud, actually. Like, I feel so much pride in, like, helping people go to this medicine because it's a big part of my life. I know that it's made an impact for you. But anyways, when you were sharing, there was a part of me that was like, I hope Luke's okay. You know, Like, I was. I was, like, concerned because you're a friend. And I was like, I hope he's okay. Like, I. I want to make sure that all friends that I know that are going down there are okay. Did you ever feel like you. You weren't.

No. No way. I felt so connected and secure. No, it was fine. I mean, listen, having the background that I have to me plant, like, psychedelics, plant medicines, that was never on the menu. It was just like, oh, that's. That sounds fun. Good for you. I mean, if you told me about, like, oh, that's awesome. I'm sober, dude. That's not in my wheelhouse.

Yeah.

I felt as though I had used up all my E tickets, you know, and it was just like. Well, kind of missed out on that one. I wasted all those Grateful Dead shows, you know, You. All this. All my psychedelic experience, I thought were behind me, you know, but again, back to the intention. But it's something. I was like, oh, God, I bet that is cool. To be able to experience consciousness in a different way and to have the. The filter that keeps us within the third dimension here be removed, as it is in psychedelics. And you're in this world while in multiple worlds at the same time, so to speak. I like that. And I just. To be totally honest, I love the feeling of being high, you know, I just don't like it when it leads me to the, the dark path that I once.

When you say hi, what do you mean though? Don't you just mean more awareness?

Well, you know what high really is, dude. And at the end of the day, it's just a removal of the lower states of consciousness. You know, it's like when you get high, really what's happening is not that you're going higher, it's just that the lower is removed and you're just where you are. So like our, our capacity for joy and ecstasy and connection to God and consciousness is already high. But it's just being in a human body with a personality and an ego and with all your instincts and the stories and beliefs. Yeah, it keeps you from permanently accessing that. And if you were truly in that state of kind of no mind, no body all the time, it would be difficult to function back in your meat suit. So it's like, I think that's where the plant medicines and, and peak experiences like that come in. It's like you get a glimpse of what's on the other side, so to speak. And one of the things I kept asking when I was in Ceremony, I kind of forgot about this. I. I kept going, am I dead? Is this like. I knew I wasn't dead. Cause I'm laying there, I'm breathing, you know, you don't lose yourself like that. Or I didn't, but it was just like, oh, is this, is this what it's like to be dead? Am I dead? Is this, is this what it's like when you don't have a mind? You know, I was asking God, like, because you're off in this, this kind of, you know, you're in the ultimate float tank. And anyway, I got all kinds of fascinating answers that indicated, no, it's a little different, but you're halfway there, kind of. You're in between those worlds. But see, when we're not embodied, then I believe that that's when we go experience those full on and that's all we are. And then we're probably longing to get back in the body, which to me would be like not high, the opposite of high. Right. If high is experiencing consciousness without being so encumbered with our feelings, physical embodiment, than if you're constantly in this ecstatic state of being disembodied and being truly in spirit, in a spiritual realm, without connection to the earth realm, you probably be longing to come back and get in a goddamn body. And that's probably what happens. You're like, ding, ding. Joe and Mary just did it. There's an embryo right there with my name on it in Cincinnati, Ohio. 2026, February 8th. Whatever, right? Bing. That's my neighborhood. Those are my parents. That's my ancestry. That's my lineage. That's my karma. You pop in there and start to sprout into a new little baby meat suit.

How cool would that be if somebody on that date in February 2026 is hearing this podcast and they're like, that's me, man.

Luke's talking about me. Oh, my God. That's totally. That is not inconvenienced.

These will live beyond 2026. So we just gotta take care of the planet.

That is so funny. That is not inconceivable. That's totally possible, Luke. Like, what? If you're listening, come back in time and save me. Oh, no, wait.

I'll still be here if instructor still exists. Like, hit up Luke right now.

Follow me at Luke Story.

What inside you of your intuitive faculty? Like, what actually allowed you to give yourself permission to Explore this with 20 years of sobriety on the back end? Like, how did you say to yourself, you know what? I trust this experience is for my higher good?

Well, having conversations with people like you, with all a lot of people that I know and trust to not be imbeciles or, you know, insane people that, you know, get it. And also talking to people about the rich history of plant medicines and actually curing people of addictions. I think that's the big clincher for me is that someone like a Jerry Powell can be. He was. I think he was addicted to Dilaudid or something. Like, really gnarly.

Gnarly.

Most intense things you could.

Yeah, really gnarly. Ivy synthetic opiate. You know, one of the hardest things you could ever get off. He goes and does iboga one time, and it just struck sober for the rest of his life. I mean, that's weird. And there's so many experiences like that where people have actually been catapulted into sobriety and into recovery from doing plant medicines. Then all of the research into MDMA and into psilocybin and LSD and the therapeutic values of those drugs and the fact that it's not widely experienced that people injure themselves or die or become addicted to those things. So it was like really understanding the historical precedence of plant medicines as they relate to addictions and whether or not they trigger someone to go back in and do the quote unquote, bad drugs or not or be catapulted back into the throes of obsession and addiction, all that. So after having done a lot of research to that end, I felt kind of safe. And then I really had to grapple with the self identity entity of meeting someone and they go, hey, you want a glass of wine? I go, no, I'm sober. I'm a sober guy. What exactly does that mean? Yeah, if someone takes kratom and microdoses psilocybin and goes off every once in a while and does ayahuasca and whatever things that I've done, it's like, well, are you still sober? It depends on whose encyclopedia you're reading. Yeah.

How would you even define sobriety?

So, yeah, so I would still say, yes, I'm a sober person. I don't do the things that got me in trouble. I don't smoke weed, I don't drink. I don't do any hard drugs. I don't do any of that. And. And so I, I don't. Is when I say I like being high, I'm saying that kind of figuratively. I like the feeling of being connected with consciousness, but I have absolutely no desire to ever go back to where I came from. And I actually don't like the high of those synthetic kind of. Well, not that weed synthetic, of course, but some of the other things that are synthesized or that are extracts from plants and things like that that are much stronger. You know what I mean? And so I had to get my head around that and just, you know, be. Take responsibility for myself and come what may, if I go do this and it takes me down a slippery slope. Well, I've done so consciously. And then I also had to really consider I'm set and setting and that I was going somewhere where people were professional, had the right motives, where I wasn't going to be, you know, out in the middle of the jungle getting robbed and bitten with mosquitoes and, you know, I want a python.

Go in your sleeping bag.

Yeah, yeah. I wanted to have a relatively cushy experience. And you know, some of my friends, friends that are aficionados of plant medicine kind of scoff at my rhythmia experience because it was so sort of four or five star maybe and have a spa there and all that. It's not the norm from what I understand, but that's what I needed in order to be comfortable and have that experience. And I anticipate that when and if I go and have more of those experiences, I'll be less concerned about the surroundings and aesthetics and only really concerned with the Intentions and the vibration and level of consciousness of the guides and shaman that are facilitating the ceremony ceremonies. Right.

Yeah.

So it was a combination of all of those things. And also just really looking at my motive and making sure that my motive was pure and that I was being honest with myself, that I really wanted to go and access a deeper level of healing and to ferret out some of the stuff that still needs to be excavated and worked on and worked with, because there's no end to that project. It's a bottomless pit of. Of healing. There's no point at which a human can say, okay, I have no more. You know, I. I'm not triggered by anything ever. My amygdala is healed. You know, it's like, it's just a deeper level of excavation. And I also had the feeling, as you indicated earlier, that it was kind of, you know, I don't want to say a shortcut because I don't want a shortcut, but I wanted something like, let's cut through this shit quick. I'm willing to face. Yeah, I'm willing to ride the fucking dragon, dude. And just like, oh, okay, show me myself. What bullshit is there still that needs to get removed so that I can have a deeper and more rich experience of life and connection to others other. And that's exactly what I got. Yeah. Exactly what I got.

So somebody's listening and they're feeling like, either, hey, I want to do something, I'm just not exactly sure what that something is. And by the way, it could have nothing to do with plant medicine at all.

Yeah.

But for somebody that is in the throes of addiction, maybe someone is listening right now or watching, and they're like, you know what? I love my husband, my wife, my son, my daughter, my friends so much. How can I help them?

Well, if you have. If you have a bona fide addict in your life, man, that is a really tough situation to be in, because everything that you likely want to do to help them is only going to hurt them, because anything you do to make an addict's life easier is going to encourage them to keep using more. It's just a up paradox of addiction. And this is how a lot of parents and loved ones inadvertently certainly help to kill their addict. You know, so for someone who is outside of the circle and the person in the middle is the one who's ill, go to Al Anon straight up. Learn about codependency, learn about enabling, learn about taking care of yourself, and be mindful that human beings also get addicted to saving other human beings as a mean by which, as a means by which to escape their own pain and hide from their own own shadow. And so there's, you know, a real tendency for people who have experienced trauma that need relief. They medicate by trying to save another person and focusing and becoming quite addicted to that person. And that's codependency and, and all of that. So go get help for yourself. Save yourself. Put on your own oxygen mask first. You know, you ask for advice. I normally don't tell people what to do or be directive. It's not, I just, I say, I don't know, figure it out. But you know, I care. So that would, that would really, if, you know, if you ask me for yourself as a friend like Luke, be honest with what should I do? My son is doing this or my brother, whatever. That's exactly what I would tell you. And for the person that's doing it, in my own experience and observing hundreds if not thousands of other people that have had a path like mine, the only way out is a spiritual way. You know, self help doesn't really do it. It's got to be God help, whatever that looks like. You can call it whatever you want, get it from any system. If I had a good friend right now that said, man, I think I have a problem. What do I do? I would honestly, I would send them to the appropriate 12 step meeting down the street. They're in almost every place in the world, they're free. And you won't find an alter of ulterior motive in the house. I mean, of course there's a couple wackos here and there, but in terms of the organization themselves, I mean, it's just, it's built to not fail. No one gets money, no one gets rich, no one gets out of it. Except you get to feel good about yourself for helping another person that's been down the same path for you. So I would say rehab and then availing yourself to 12 step teachings and a framework of life, you know, learning spiritual principles, learn how to put them in your life. But I think if you're truly addicted, it's very hard to just quit on your own, you know. That's why for me it was really important to go to treatment so that I could be set apart and just away. And I knew if I was at least 10 miles from the nearest gas station or something, I was cool. It was too long of a walk. Even if I got crazy ideas, I'm like, no, I checked myself in and also just there's something, something about the finality of making that decision where you wake up that first day and you're like, oh, I did it. That was my realization. It was just going up. This is the real Luke.

It's.

You're done, dude. You're done. Like you're in a place for sick people. You got a problem, dude. You know, it's that self reality check I think is helpful in getting a running start, you know, at least getting your 30 days so that when you go back out into the world, you can find some people that will support you until you're strong enough to support other people. And then your life kind of becomes about that. But man, it's a, it's a hell of a beast to try to lick on your own. And I, I've never met one person that's been able to do it, you know?

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me at your place today.

For sure.

Doing these shows, this has been so epic. This has been one of my favorite experiences in four years of doing shows.

A lot. Thanks.

And it's a testament to who you are and, and the space that you hold and the house that you have. And my last question for you, man, is, is how do you define this under understanding of the physical and the emotional? You know, if you were to define wellness, how would you define wellness in Luke Storey's life?

Man, that's a tough one to quantify. I think it's the sense that you're getting better. You know, it's just I ask myself, am I improving? And if not, what can I do to fix that? You know, am I getting better? Is my character getting stronger? Am I becoming. Becoming more integris, more honest, more real, more authentic. Am I experiencing the ability to receive more love? Am I giving more love than I've given before? You know, am I increasing the inputs and the outputs that are healthy and slowly over time decreasing the inputs that are deleterious to my well being or others? You know, it's like leaving the campsite cleaner than when you found it just super simple. Making the best bed. It's a huge win.

Yeah, right.

That's why we put that, we put.

That as a step in our guide, in our morning practice guide to make your bed. Yeah, there's a reason for this. There's.

There's a lot too. Some of the simple practices like that. But I think, man, just, you know, having a, having a sincere desire to get better and, and being easy on yourself, not too hard on yourself, but just hard enough where you you know, have the ability to get yourself back in line if you're starting to fall off the path, path a bit, you know, and just steady, steady, humble improvement. Just day by day, month over month, year over year, getting a little bit better, a little more kind to others, to self. Working smarter, not working harder. Yeah, yeah.

Beautiful description, man. Beautiful definition. And we're going to be talking about you in the WellnessForce group. Wellnessforce.com group people can find you at Luke store.

Yep.

And also the Lifestylist podcast which I had the pleasure of being on. We had a two hour jam on that and just thanks man, thanks. Thanks for being you and, and everything you've gone through to be here now. We see you, we appreciate you, we acknowledge you man. So thanks for coming on.

Josh Trent. Thanks brother. Yep, thanks for having me.

Hey my friend, thank you for hanging out and growing with me today. Everything you learned on this podcast starts with your morning practices. So from over 200 world class guests and counting, we've distilled the gems, the best of the best science backed practices down into a 21 minute morning system guaranteed to increase the positive flow in your day. Get this free and powerful 21 minute life changing system over@wellnessforce.com 21. If you enjoyed this episode, tap your phone, share it with someone you care about because that is how we all get better together. Supporting the show is easy. Leave it us a five star review right now from your phone. It helps us reach other smart and conscious people like you. Either tap your phone and hit the link in purple that says review this podcast or go to wellnessforce.com review and this show doesn't stop here. We're continuing the discovering process in our private Facebook group. You can be a part of it. All you have to do is go to wellnessforce.com group and I'll welcome you at the door.

Okay.

Now you can get to go out into your world and live your life well. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.