298 Nick Pineault: The Non-Tinfoil Guide To EMFs

I think, and I'm not the only one thinking that physicians that have realized that these environmental factors play such a huge factor in making people sick or healthy is that really the environment at home is what is making them sick. And when they go just a mere two days in the forest, they feel completely different. Some people feel healed. It's like, oh, well, I used to have early onset of Alzheimer's and I lost my thoughts, and I'm very concerned, and in the middle of the woods, I'm perfectly fine. So am I sick or is my environment sick? So I think that we as humanity face a crisis in how technological development is happening at a frantic pace that is more rapid than our ability to study the effects of these technologies.

That's Nick Penault, and this is episode 298 of Wellness Force Radio. Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life.

Well. You can have the same brain states as someone who's done an hour of meditation every day for 40 years. There's a lot of losses that we go through. So the ability to be able to cope with those losses is very important to build skill in it, because loss will happen. You know, you have to have spiritual courage, to really grow spiritually, because if.

You really want to take guidance from.

Your soul, you have to be ready to realize that many of the things that you're asking for guidance on, your ego has some kind of an addiction to or an investment in.

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Organifi.com wellnessforce Save some money my friend. Use code wellnessforce. Give it a test drive while we talk with my friend and the number one bestselling author of the Non Tinfoil Guide to emfs. And he is an advocate for safe technologies. This is the one and only Nick Pinault. Through this unconventional, truly unconventional approach, blending his humor and science and common sense, Nick has become a leading voice on the topic of electromagnetic pollution and how it affects our health. And this is really big. This episode today is timeless because whether you're listening to this podcast live right here in 2019 or five years from now, this knowledge is evergreen. It's not going to go out of style yet. The concepts we explore in today's show will still be polarizing. There's a lot of money. It's a multi billion dollar industry. The electromagnetic frequencies that are all these devices, the Internet of things, computers, 5G houses, we're going up against a giant. But I do believe in humanity. I have faith in humanity. So does Nick. We're exploring these electromagnetic frequencies and the hidden dangers and really the negative health effects. Not just with the 5G. Everybody talks about 5G, that's just one EMF. Most EMFs are essentially brand new. They've been in our existence for like a blink of an eye. If you look at the curve of humanity and evolution, we we're also talking about how this happens in our apartments, homes and neighborhoods to us and how we can mitigate these negative effects. We explore the four types of emf, the radio frequency, electric fields, magnetic fields, and dirty electricity. We Also talk about the damaging frequencies that are out there and how they add stress to our biology, which can, many studies have shown, cause digestive issues, brain fog, among other very serious conditions. And we talk about the strategies to mitigate this. And I want to say this right here and right now, when it comes to EMF and nutrition and movement, basically every pillar of wellness, every segment, we just get to let go of this mentality of like 0 or 100, you know what I mean? If my diet's not perfect, then forget about it. I'm just gonna eat crap all the time. And I make one mistake. It's this negative monkey mind loop that a lot of us get into. And I really see this in the segment of EMF and electromagnetic frequency. We can be much better. We can go 50%. And just by mitigating 50%, even half of the frequencies that are out there, as long as we do our best to mitigate them, we can add years, maybe even a decade or more to our lives. This is a really important topic from one of the best experts in the world in this subject. So make sure you go to the show notes page today. Wellnessforce.com 298 learn more about Nick. Pick up a copy of his book. It is the best one out there that I've read on this subject, if you're a health practitioner. He's also got amazing courses on how to reduce electrosmog, which he thinks is a missing link in, and functional medicine. So let's drop in right here, right now with Nick Pinault. There are certain people in the world that I come across and I realize, oh, this is a person that's doing spiritual and personal development. And they're doing it in this modern world tactically, like on the ground floor with people that actually need their information. It's not like we're selling TVs or shoes here. You know, like, you actually help people on the ground where their feet touch the ground. And I've been fascinated with this concept for a long time because, man, you know, we had Thaddeus Owen on the show and we talked about the truth about 5G, but we really didn't get into the EMF and like the cordless and the supplements. And you take a massive deep dive. And this is why I'm so excited to talk to you, man. You take a massive deep dive into what you wrote, the Non tinfoil guide to EMFs. Like, let's start here. What exactly is an EMF? Because in your book I read that it was a physical field, like electromagnetic Fields on page six here. It's a physical field produced by electrically charged objects. Wait a minute, EMF is an object.

I mean, EMF is an entire spectrum, right? It's created by a lot of different things in nature. So you have, for example, the sun emits a ton of different frequencies, a ton of different wavelengths of EMFs, electromagnetic fields. And we are affected by the sun. We know that we are affected by UV radiation. It can burn us, but it can heal us also. Infrared is also. You have certain wavelengths that are visible, certain wavelengths that are invisible. But we know they're there, we know they have, have biological effects. So all these are EMFs. But my work, you know, is about the new EMFs that we're playing with as humankind, which is electricity. The introduction is electricity is really, I guess, the first widespread use of EMS when we've electrified the entire nation. In the US it finished about 100 years ago, or maybe I think at the end of the 1950s in certain very remote areas. So we've been exposed to these fields for not even 100 years. When it comes to also think about cell phones, Bluetooth, satellites, anything that emits any frequency on the EMF spectrum is, let's say a man made EMFs, a new EMF that we've introduced. Just like we've introduced so many new toxins in the environment. And we're in our food, in the.

Soil, everything else, you know, we're kind.

Of left to guess what, what they're going to do to us. Because so many toxic chemicals are not monitored. We don't even have testing capability for the residues on food or in our body. So we're just starting to scratch the surface on what these new man made chemicals are doing to us. And we're also kind of scratching the surface on public understanding on what these man made EMFs are doing to our biology.

This reminds me of like a lottery ticket. Did you ever like, did your grandparents or parents ever buy you lottery tickets when you're a young kid? You know you'd scratch the lottery ticket. Or is that not even in your field?

I still do.

You still do.

So my wife, my wife and I, it's one of our guilty pleasures. I don't know why. It's like, oh, this $5 thing and it's, it's bingo, right? Then we play. Yeah, we're like all excited. We always lose. I don't know why.

Well, I think it's designed that way, but I was feeling the metaphor, Nick. Because as we scratch the surface on a lottery Ticket, then we see what numbers are below and, and that's what your book is doing. This non tinfoil guide to EMFs. I didn't know that there was four types of EMFs. There was just one EMF and it was like, you know, transves into different channels, 5G, 4G, all these different things. But you talk about this in the book, man, and this is why I wanted to have you on the show, to get even more clear about what we can do on the ground to protect ourselves. The four types are radio frequency, magnetic fields, electric fields and dirty electricity. What is dirty electricity? What is that?

Sure, and I want to say these four types, it's really, sir, depending on who you talk to. For example, electrical engineers wouldn't really classify EMFs like that. They would talk about high frequency, extremely high frequency, extremely low frequency. They would have other lingo. But this is mainly the building biology profession. Who has been a profession has been developed in Germany originally, but now there's the building biology institute here in North America in the US and they are EMF survey specialists. They go into homes and they look at four types of EMFs mainly. So this is really my inspiration was, okay, well, people who come to your home, what type of EMFs are they looking at? And this classification of four different types is pretty much recognized. And also there are a lot of studies, for example, showing effects of radio frequency, but these studies cannot be extrapolated to magnetic fields, for example. So this is really, I wanted to, I guess for the geeks listening to this. Oh, that's not correct. Well, it depends on really who you're talking to. So for on a building biology standpoint, dirty electricity is really a term encompassing, let's say, the cleanliness or lack thereof of the electricity running in the walls of your home or work environment and what it does to you. So imagine normally the fluctuation or the frequency of this electricity is supposed to be 60Hz in North America and 50Hz in Europe and most of Asia. This is not what's happening. You do have the main frequency at 50 or 60 hertz, but because of the way our electronics are built, even, I mean your toaster to your MacBook computer to your TV, these machines are poorly designed with cheap electronics. And what happens is that the fact that they're plugged into the wall will dump back different frequencies on the line. So if you take an oscilloscope or a professional level instrumentation to look at, okay, what frequencies are running on these wires, you find 60 hertz, but then you find in the thousands of hertz and in the billions of hertz, because you can literally measure WI fi that's now running in your wires. And what happens on a biological standpoint is really extra layers of added stress to your biology. Because pretty much in every biological study that is run, or at least a grand conclusion of all those that have been run in the last decades is the more chaos you have in a, in electricity, but also in cell phone signal, in any of these man made frequencies, the more pulsation you have. Right. When you have a WI fi router, it pulses at 10 hertz. So it means you literally, if you have an EMF meter, you can hear that's 10 times a second. That's even more of a military, I guess, automatic gunshot sound that you would hear. When you hear a cell phone tower, you hear a very screeching noise as someone is taking their nails and kind of scratching the blackboard. So these can show us, let's say, or make us hear how chaotic these waves are. So when it comes to dirty electricity is the fact that you have multiple frequencies running on the line and always switching, always leaving your biology guessing about what's next. Because in nature you had EMFs everywhere, right? But they were fairly stable and the fluctuations weren't multiple times per second the way we've engineered these EMFs.

So it's really just been like a hundred years. I mean, I think that's the big point, Nick, when I'm, even when I review your work and when I listen to you on other shows and even just understanding kind of the depths of why you even explored EMFs in the first place, it's because I think there was something in you that knew if you were to get this information out to the world, then people would be able to have inspired actions, people would be able to change their behavior. Think about what happens in nutrition. Big Food went to court before that, Big Tobacco went to court. And they had to admit like, oh yes, we are paying billions of dollars to scientists so that we'll make the foods have the bliss point. And then the tobacco companies had to stand up and testify for Congress. Oh yeah. Remember when we said that tobacco wasn't addictive? Yeah, we lied about that. Sorry. So the same thing. Nick, I feel like you're on this bleeding edge where you're a voice that is going to guide these tech titans to one day go into court and admit, you know what, all in the D, in the T's and C's, everything buried deep down in there, we knew this was going to cause health effects. And I think you're a driving force for that. I mean, tell people just before we dig in, because we're about to put on like the spinning propeller hat before we get into the, to the details though, for tactically what we can do. Like what even got you into this in the first place? Like, did you have a moment where you said this is going to be my course for life or was it more cumulative?

It was a mix of a lot of things. I have, you know, I have a background in copywriting, advertising, communications, branding. But I really felt like, okay, I'm a copywriter for tv. I do have a good job. But in my mind it was very clear that's what I'm calling for tv.

So interesting look at what you're doing now. And you used to work in television.

And I mean, I didn't watch tv. In fact, a fun anecdote I never told publicly, I guess is imagine there's a CEO for TV news, the biggest CEO for French talking TV news in North America, America, who's there in a conference room and we were discussing ideas and I kind of slipped in there that I never watched TV and I was one of the main copywriters for TV advertising. And he said, yeah man, look, you gotta watch tv or I saw you escape the Matrix.

That was one of your ways you got out of the Matrix, Nick.

Well, exactly, exactly. But I just found it. I mean, I could advertise shows, but I didn't think these shows were that great. I mean, I don't watch tv right. So anyway, it wasn't my calling. I started on the side just while starting, starting this job. So 2000, 2010, even 2009, I was writing about health and just reporting on. I must have been a blog spot or something very old. Just to my friends and family finding.

I remember blog spot that was old.

School and finding, you know, that trans fats are bad or that you, you should probably not avoid all saturated fats and that grass fed meat is better than grain fed and these kind of things that back in 2009 they were fairly new. We're talking about way, way before the word pale was around on a very mainstream standpoint. So I started writing online and in 2010 I read Tim Ferriss for our Workweek. What else for like this is, I think the, the, the, the moment where a lot of entrepreneurs have just, just went, aha. I could, I could do something with my life and have more freedom, I guess. And that was my idea. So I started writing about health and one thing led to another. I published a series of nutrition ebooks, and that was 2013 and. And since then my wife and I have just teamed up on the business, tried to educate the public about certain issues. It was nutrition at first, and eventually I almost wrote a book about cancer. My mom got cancer in early 2016 and I think it was the hardest experience in my life. I never really expressed my emotions. But bringing up this moment now, I think I can cry on demand. And that's very bizarre for me because I'm really, I guess, someone who has never really shown his emotions. And I felt compelled because the good news is that she recovered quickly. We went to see a holistic doctor in Montreal, Dr. Daniel Crisofi. And he really helped her stay very healthy while on chemo. Literally, the oncologist could not understand what she was doing. And she was tackling every aspect of a healthy life on top of chemo therapy, which I think this is what you need to do. You need to use every single healing modality that you can. And her co chambers in the chemo ward were kind of binging on candy because they were feeling very anxious and she was horrified by the type of stuff they were putting in their body while on chemo. So I was very touched by this story and I told myself, okay, I need to write on cancer. I need to write why you need to do other things on top of chemo or alternative to chemo, depending on what is your personal ch. And I gathered almost 600 pages of research. I was about to write a manuscript and somehow I could not sit down to write it. And almost three months passed and I could not sit down to write it. And somehow I felt guilty about the project. I'm like, well, I need to spread the word. And it was because I had been reading one book after another about this EMF thing. Dr. Devereaux Davis, disconnect. Dr. Martin Blank, who wrote Overpowered and Dirty Electricity by Samuel Milham. I read pretty much everything I could get my hands on and I realized, oh my God, well, this is one of the cancer causing agents in the first place, so maybe I should talk about that. And I started talking to Jan. She's my wife, she's my co CEO. She really keeps me in touch with what people can really comprehend because I tend to get really in my head and oh yeah, Jen, look, this EMF thing is really clear. And I told her about the whole issue and she did not understand the thing. I said to myself, okay, there's something wrong here. And she told Me, Nick, look, you gotta tone it down, you gotta simplify it the way you did with nutrition. And I really went at it and spent several months really making it simpler. Simpler until technically, I think an 8 year old might be able to understand at least the principle.

Yeah. And also the photographs and the way the book is laid out. It's so easy to digest.

And that was the goal.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I'm thinking like, you know what? My 15 year old nephew could read this book and totally understand. And that is actually the truth mastery. If you look at how people communicate, how you articulate very complex, very nuanced subjects like electromagnetic fields, if you're able to disseminate that and to package it and promote it in a way where people can understand, this is actually the modern day wisdom. This is like the modern day healers where you're taking this ancient art form of learning and disseminating and you're putting it out to the world now in really a sea of information. And this is so touching to me, Nick. I. I had heard about your mom and the way that you explained it right now. And I can't help but see the mirror here. You talk about. In 2016, Berkeley passed the Right to no Ordinance. 2016 was when your mom got diagnosed with cancer the same year, right?

Yeah.

So I'm thinking about this and I'm thinking, okay, well, this is when Berkeley actually required wireless retailers to warn customers of possible radiation exposure when purchasing cell phones. Have you ever made that connection? That the same year as your mom and the same year that Berkeley came out with the right to know ordinan.

No, never. Never. I don't know. But I did feel for the first. It was the first time since 2012 when I wrote my series on nutrition that I felt really compelled to write. And I can tell you my plan because, well, I have won't go into psychotherapy, but let's say I tend to overwork myself. So my plan, originally I told Jen I'm going to write this book in a week. And I don't know why I had this plan. It was kind of crazy. She always laughs at me when I tell the story. She's like, yeah, I ended up writing it in six weeks. Still, it literally wrote itself is the way I can describe it. And it just happened two times in my life. And the first one was the nutrition e book series called the Truth about Fat Burning Foods. And it was really great. And I felt compelled. I felt called like, okay, this information needs to get out there. But I'm gonna use my own style, my own tone, and I'm gonna use humor in there because it is hard to digest, it is hard to take. And. And the second you go, you push people a little bit too much, they feel threatened, because, no, you will take my cell phone away. And I hate you, Nick. So I try to be a middleman, trying to introduce people to a topic that makes people very uncomfortable when you talk about it.

I mean, just I'm feeling the way that there's so much misinformation in this ocean of information about EMFs. And one of the cool things that I see with you and with Thaddeus and with a lot of people that are taking the convers to a practical level, like, this is what we always explore on the show anyways, and this is why I was so stoked to have you on. How do we take all this knowing and how do we go into the being and in the doing? Because knowing and being and doing, they're so separate. And I think really, like, what strikes me the most is in the same chapter where you Talked about the 2016 right to know ordinance, you also talked about 135 black swan studies. So you picked 135 paper that show links between EMF and adverse health effects. How long did that actually take?

Man?

135 papers. That is like not an overnight thing.

No, it took a lot. Several weeks reading and trying to sort out the best science. But, you know, this book is almost two years old now. At least the manuscript is. And I would have done something completely different if I wrote it again. So I. 135, I could show more than that. I mean, it's not the amount of studies that we need right now as far as proving that electromagnetic fields do something to the human body. And just to give you, I guess we'll just scratch the surface on the science. But if you want facts and if people still listening to this, they say, well, I'm skeptical. Is there an effect? Well, consider this. In 2011, the World Health Organization did a workgroup of 36 experts worldwide looking at the question, are EMFs from cell phones or Bluetooth and WI fi? So radio frequency we're talking about here, is this a carcinogen? And they came to the conclusion it was very close to being a 2A probable carcinogen, ended up being 2B possible carcinogen. Now there are a few scientists who are at the top of their game, like Dr. Anthony Miller, a top epidemiologist who's looking at the current science that that has been published from 2011, since this decision to 2019. 2020. And he says, according to the same principles, the same criteria we used back in 2011, EMFs are a Class 1 carcinogen. So it means it's a definite carcinogen. And you don't have a lot of things in this category. You've got cigarette smoke, you've got asbestos, and possibly a few other things.

So, wait, hold on. In the same category is asbestos and cigarettes as emf?

That's correct. It's not the case at the moment because the World Health Organization needs to reconvene a work group, and then it's going to take a few years to get there. But judging his judgment at the moment, he's comfortable saying that, well, if we look at the science, it's clear that it's a carcinogen. So if you want the most mainstream science, this is it. You don't have to go in conspiracy theory or even try to argue about, oh, this study said that. That study said this. Well, we can argue all day, but it's a carcinogen. And the long term effects, the real long term effects, how does that compare to other carcinogens? We don't know. And the reason is the iPhone has launched in 2007, not in 1917. Right. So we don't have this data. And brain cancer, for example, just to name this one, can develop, can have a latency period of 50, 60, 70 years. We still see an increase in cancer from survivors of the nuclear bomb in Hiroshima. So at the moment, in 2019, we still see the consequences of using Agent Orange in Vietnam in future generations. So we are left to guess. And my message has always been that my biggest concern is not about what we know about these dangers, it's about what we don't.

This is big because Paul Check talks about that in his work. He says the devil you know is the powerful one. The devil you don't know is the one that actually could cause you even more of a deleterious health effect. Like, knowing the devil is actually the first start. So look, this, this podcast, it's not about saying that we should burn down all the cell towers. Like, that's not. That's not what we're saying. Why I wanted to talk about this with you is because I want to know the truth. I want to figure out, like, just like everyone here with us, Nick, what can we actually do once we identify the devil, what the devil actually is? So this devil you're talking about, this is 1960s. We're at 10 billion times the amount of EMF radiation. And this is from your Source on page 17 of your book, from Olga Sheehan. And I'm curious about this. Like, like, what do we do at this point? 10 billion times higher EMF than in the 60s. Like, this is a devil that we know.

And it's more than that. Actually, I should change that in a future edition. It's actually, it's 1 billion billion times in the frequency of radio frequency. And that's from Professor Holly Johansson, who's a former scientist at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden. So it's a lot. The truth is you are exposed and this can be very depressing for a lot of people, which is why I wrote the book. Because in the end you say you open a WI FI signal on your computer and you see a hundred different WI fi's you could connect to. So most people at this point disconnect and they say, well, pun intended. They say, well, there's nothing I can do about it. I am bathing in this thing. But remember that the distance is key here. And the first step is the. That you want to make sure you're not in contact with anything wireless touching your body. Because these are the most acute risks. And this is the kind of reckless use of technology that has been shown to dramatically increase cancer risk. For example, cancers of the head. If you have a cell phone on one side of the head, you have greater risk to develop tumors on this side of the head.

I don't know anybody that touches their phone to their head anymore. Do people still do that? Like, are we. We guys, everyone with us, stop touching your phone to your head, period. Yeah, like that's, that's probably. Would you say that's the number one, Nick, when we talk about phone and deleterious health?

It is. It is number one. And if you do that and you want to preserve other body parts that you care about, for example, don't put.

It next to where you pee.

Yeah, well, exactly, exactly. So either ovaries, testes, you know, there might be links with colon cancer, there might be links with prostate gland problems, urinary problems. We don't know because we don't have this data. But if it's doing that on one side of the head, if it's causing a tumor, it means it is disrupting you on a cellular level where you put it. We know that this is an acute measurable effect where you do increase your risk of developing something that could even take your life. But we know also that there are very, very rapid effects that are seen after even a couple hours of cell phone in the pocket. For men, we see a reduction in sperm motility, sperm count and different characteristics of sperm quality if you only use a laptop on your lap for four hours in one study. So we do see these effects. And it's starting. Just the sperm count or fertility issue is a huge one. And it's one that might be even more urgent than the whole debate about brain cancer.

Let me pause you right there just so we can all get clarity because this is a very deep, very important topic. If the phone is close to our reproductive organs, what is the research showing there? Because this is one thing that we can all get really granular on right now. Touching the phone or having the phone close. I think you mentioned maybe a foot is the worst. What can people do when they're out in public with the phone? Is there a certain blocker that we can use? Maybe there's a sheath we can put over the phone. How do we actually do that? So that for people that want to have children or the people that want to have healthy genitals, which is all of us, who doesn't want to have healthy genitals, how do we tactically approach the EMF there?

Sure. Really airplane mode is the best way to carry your phone. You make sure that there's no emission from your phone. So you can keep it in your pocket. I mean, my phone is. When I'm moving from my home to the gym, taking the subway, I always have my phone in my pocket. But it's never on. It's never connected to WI fi or to Bluetooth or to cellular antennas. So it's really a miniature portable computer that I have. I don't have a cell phone antenna in my pocket is the problem. Because even if you don't use it, there's always some sort of EMF coming out your phone every second or every couple seconds, depending on what phone you have. So the effects are really mediate on your fertility. And that's a huge problem. We don't even know what's the long term effect of that. Of course, man can replenish their sperm over the course of. I think it's a few months. It's very rapid. I think it's 51 days if I'm. But what about ovaries? What about eggs that women have and they have one set for life? We don't know what are the long term consequences in their offspring, the quality of how well their children are going to thrive. So really it's airplane mode. And there are a few cases. It's very difficult to look at cell phone cases and say if they really work. And this is something I've got some criticism about in the past because I use one cell pH. I can't tell you. I use the Safe sleeve case. I know that Thaddeus uses also this.

It's called Safe Sleeve.

Safe sleeve, yeah. There's Defender Shield. That's another competitor. There's RF safe.com, if I'm not mistaken. There's a new one also that I'm looking into. I'm very excited about. And actually it's the first time I tell that publicly. It's called RP of Sweden. And that's a new case from Sweden that has been tested in a very controlled manner in the top, let's say EM MF shielded labs in the world. And the reduction is tremendous, 70 to 99%. But there's a slippery slope here because let's say the fact that you have a cell phone case makes you use your phone not on airplane mode all the time makes you expose yourself more. Right. So when it comes to EMF shielding technology, it has to be used in a context where you're using that as an add on to the behaviors that you're developing. You know, it's akin to first taking care of your diet and then adding in extra vitamin C if you think you need it. Right. But I think that there's an order of priority that is very, very important to follow here or else you start looking into quick fixes, just like we do with food.

God. Okay, the power of this one for me is that, yes, we'll link that in the show notes and I'm sure we can get information on what actual case to buy. But besides that, I think really what we're talking about, Nick, is a behavioral task where teaching people to turn their phone off. I know the first thing they're going to say. They're going to say, well, what if somebody tries to call me? What if I need to get a hold of someone? How do you address the behavioral component? Because knowing is different than doing.

Sure. So when it comes to your phone, if you need to always be on call, that's one thing. If your job requires you to have your phone on, that's one thing. Right. Not a lot of people are in this situation necessarily, but when they enter the office, they keep their cell phone right next to them, some of them in their pocket all day. But they can have a corded line at work and you can Even make it so that if your phone is found to be turned off and a call tries to go through, it is automatically redirected to your landline at work or at home, depending on the hour. You can automate all these things. So you don't really have a reason to use a cell phone at work, especially in an office environment. And the same can be true for WI Fi. You know, I visited just to call him out on that. Maybe he's going to listen to that. Kyle Kingsbury. I did an interview on the used to be called Human Optimization Hour. Now it's the call. It's very interesting.

It's the Kyle Kingsbury Show.

So I was at the Onit gym and he told me, nick, oh, let's go to my office and let's take readings. And of course they were in the red zone. Why? Because his desktop computer that is like the largest imac was connected via WI fi and all these computers in the entire office were connected via WI fi. And this is just for convenience, right? What they could do, and I told him to do, I don't know if they did it, but I'm calling him on it. But if he wants to improve, I think the productivity and just reduce this exposure, that's really needless. If you have a computer, the goal isn't even to move around with it. You can literally just wire everything with ethernet cables. Especially in an office environment where it's a garage gym, right. It's easy. Like you've got wires everywhere. So it will cost a few hundred dollars and be done with it. So that's one way you can do it, is change your behavior around how you use your cell phone. If you're at home, you could automatically, you enter the home, you turn off your cell phone and then you know that it's going to be redirected to a corded landline so that way you don't miss anything. That's one way to do it. At least do it at night. And for parents out there, especially parents that, that tell me about this, this issue they're they're having with my advice. N. Look, look man, I appreciate you but I have teenagers and they go out at night and I want them to call me in case of an emergency. I want to be a good responsible parent. Okay, well get a corded landline, you have to. And they know that they can reach you any time of the day or the night. Or put your cell phone with the ringer on in another room and very, very loudly so you make sure you don't miss it. But even better is just a corded landline. You can have it in your room. There's not going to be any radiation. And leave technology and this wireless stuff outside the room, which is probably better for your health on all levels. This is big.

This is really big. And I apologize, I want to interrupt you because I want to understand, because I know when I ask you again for, like, the distilled version, I think people will understand. You operate in this world. There's so much knowledge that you have. If we were to tell people one thing about the cell phone, would it be just to have that behavioral component of either having the wifi turned off and having it on airplane mode or. Or having the protective shield? Would it be one of those two things, or is there anything else we're missing?

Well, the most important is creating distance between the phone and your body. The second order of operation would be to turn it off more often than not, if you can, or airplane mode. And this will depend really on your personal situation. And the third thing would be to use some sort of EMF blocking apparatus that can help. But that, again, is, let's say, the third degree of intervention here.

Excellent. Okay. Because I'm thinking about. All right, that chapter in your book, and we're going to link the non tinfoil guide to EMFs in the show notes. This is a very, very comprehensive book. Like, I have not seen a book that has gone in depth, but also makes it so simple to learn. I think it's the only one out there. I mean, I know you have mentors that you've learned from, and you Talked about in 2016, everything that you downloaded when your mom was going through the cancer. But for people that are wanting that first start, maybe they're a health professional. You also have a program. You have an Electrosmog RX program. We're talking about the end users. We're talking about men and women right now, how we can reduce the EMF load. And we'll continue to dive into that in this podcast. But I feel like for the health pros listening, this is big, because this Electrosmog Rx, it's an online level EMF course, and you did it in collaboration with a physician, correct?

Yes, with Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, who's really known for his work around chronic disease. He's seen, I think, the average patient that he sees. It varies depending on what interview you listen to, but it's somewhere between 20 and 30 other practitioners they have seen on average before him. So he fixes people who are unfixable by conventional medicine, by holistic medicine, by anything that people have tried, and he finds solutions. Why? Well, he digs a bit deeper, and he looks at other factors, and you know what happens. After I published the book, I went to an event called the Mindshare Summit, and that's an event that's run every year.

Jj Virgin event. Yeah, yeah.

JJ Virgin event. And I had already gone. It was my second time there, and for the first time, I was kind of. I became the EMF guy because everyone wanted to learn about it, but no one was talking about it. And I was a bit intimidated by the situation, to be perfectly honest, because, I mean, the top. The top doctors in the world that have large online brands and Dr. Tom O' Brien and Dr. Alan Christiansen and very incredible health authorities, Ari Witten, and so many people came to me for advice, and I'm like, well, guys, I'm just a guy. I wrote a book, but I didn't really feel like an expert. Although clearly I did understand things on a way deeper level after studying at first for over a thousand hours. So they told me, I want more information. I want you to learn how to apply disinformation to my patients and go even deeper than the book, because the book is. I wanted to just scratch the surface and not give you the overwhelm pill that a lot of people are getting by reading other books and other books I consider way better than my book. But that's because I love reading about ems. Most people hate. Hate reading about ems. They don't want the science. They don't have time. They're busy. So the reality is that after that, I decided, okay, you know what? I took a group of about 10 to 12 practitioners from all walks of life. We had an MD, we had a naturopathic doctor, chiropractor, acupuncturist. And I asked them, guys, what would you want to learn about ems? And then based on the survey answers, we really built, let's say, the beta version of the course. That was early 2018 and the last year and a half, I was really dedicated to finding the best information that we have on what should you do if you realize one of your clients or patient has a big sensitivity to EMFs because it's something we didn't mention. But, I mean, the symptoms can be many of EMF exposure. For some people, it's very. They know they use a cell phone on the head, they feel a headache, they don't use it, they don't have it. Headache that's good. Good for you. It's a sign. Listen to your body. It's a sign. You should probably not do that. But for some people, they always get a headache if they're only bathing in the city levels of EMFs. And that's highly problematic because it means how do they heal in this environment that made them sick? It's just like having chemical sensitivity where certain people are so allergic to perfume that they get the smell and they almost faint and. And that. That's still.

I've been around. I've been around people like that, where even my girlfriend, she was like, I can't be around people that have that strong scent. It, like it affects her more than most people.

Yeah.

And it's crazy to me. Nick, you talk about this in the book we live in an EMF soup, which I think is a. It's a really funny analogy. You know, so it's like we have things that are off gassing, we have devices, we have the Internet of things. We have all these things. And this is a really big reminder for all of us too, as we go into this next phase of the conversation. It's about mitigating the most poor health aspects of emf. It's not about being perfect. And I think some people, if they have a perfectionist tendency, they say, well, if I can't block all the emf, then I'm just gonna not do anything at all. And that is the worst mistake we can possibly do. It's about mitigating, doing the very best we can, so that instead of maybe being 90% bathed in EMF, maybe we're only 20% or 30% bathed. And that is where this conversation is really going towards. It's about living our life. Well, it's about having longev this life. So I'm curious if you've talked about this in your work, people that say, well, if I can't block at all, then I'm not going to block any of it. How do you address that mindset?

Sure. So there's two situations that can happen. And let's use the food analogy, because I think I'm very grateful that now the most people in the public know, for example, that sugar is bad. They can still consume sugar or I don't know if that's most people. Probably some certain people will tell me, Nick. No, that's probably not accurate. I'm hoping, hoping that almost everyone has a remote understanding that probably sugar is not good for you. Do they do something about it is another story. But so for certain People, it's about reducing the amount of EMFs they're exposed to, reducing the sugar in diet until you reach a level where you have done, let's say the 90% of the work. So you take baby steps until you get there and you get better and better and better until, until you reach a point where you're comfortable or until new technologies that make EMFs even worse force you to do even more things. As if the food quality is going down in your environment, you need to go out of your way to find farm fresh foods even more. And that's the reality, unfortunately, with soils that are degrading. So other people have a different situation. And if you're listening to this and you've realized, I think I'm very sensitive to these things, you might be the silly act diseased person of EMFs. And that's called electro hypersensitivity. And you know, a lot of researchers have tried to study it and if you, if you study certain scientists, they've really, I think debunked the idea that we definitely know that there's no such thing as electrosensitivity. If you listen to people in the functional medicine space, they each tell me there is such thing as a physical effect, not just in the head effect of electro hypersensitivity. Just like, just like your wife has this thing for perfumes. Certain people are more sensitive to certain agents. And if, if that's your case, consider that you're a celiac person living in the same building as a bakery.

Why do you think, Nick? Nick, why do you think some people have this electro hypersensitivity compared to people that don't like? What is different about their biology?

There is a genetics aspect, probably a strong epigenetic too. And we don't know exact exactly. I know that people that have liver problems are more likely to develop it, people that have thyroid problems. But overall it really looks like it's a total body stressor equation where when people are already overwhelmed with viruses, parasites, they had several courses of antibiotics, they have everything now they get more sensitive and you know, it can be reversed. For me, I used to have massive brain fog. If I worked on WI fi, I can tell you, lately I was forced to. Well, I guess forced is a big word. But I decided to work on WI fi for an hour even though I don't like it and I didn't feel anything because my health is going very, very well in the right direction these days. So your sensitivity will vary depending on your current state of health and overall body load. Load of stressors.

Wow. I want to pause there because that is a huge takeaway. Let's pull back the curtain here. If you're already in a state of disease, if you're stressed, if you're carrying extra weight, if you have health complications, Hashimoto's autoimmune. If you have anything at all where literally I feel like almost Nick, I'd love to hear what you feel about this. The earth is trying to take you back. The earth is trying to bring your energy back into itself. Because you've become a place where all these deep different maladies, really like these energetic maladies, can live and thrive. It's kind of like when an animal gets sick in nature, all the flies and all the bugs start going towards them. It's the same thing with us. If our body is in a state of health and it has a lack of disease, where it's in ease, then this electro smog and everything else, it's not going to affect us as much. I mean, this is an interesting point because if we're healthy, then we're less susceptible to EMFs. Would you agree or. I'd love to hear your thought process on that.

I agree. You're less susceptible. I think so. First of all, you have your internal antioxidant protectors that are there to help you if all systems are firing. If your mitochondrial energy reserves are very good, you exercise, your hormones are in the right spot, you will have a vast pool of antioxidants that are created inside your body. You have glutathione, sod, catalase, you have a lot of antioxidants that will help you cope with what we know is the effect of these EMFs, which is in very simple terms, oxidative stress. So just like exercise will create oxidative stress, EMFs do the same. The problem is that you exercise for one hour, then you recuperate for maybe 48 hours. With EMF, it's always stress. There's no time off. Except if maybe you have the amazing practice of going in the middle of nowhere from time to time, like at Rhythmia or I don't know, like you gotta go in the middle of nowhere at some point to recuperate. And you know what people report in going camping, going in nature. I think, and I'm not the only one thinking that physicians that have realized that these environmental factors play such a huge factor in making people sick or healthy is that really the environment at home is what is making them sick. And when they go just a mere two days in the forest, they feel completely different. Some people feel healed. It's like, oh, well, I used to have early onset of Alzheimer's and I lost my thoughts and I'm very concerned and in the middle of the world woods, I'm perfectly fine. So am I sick or is my environment sick?

That's big.

This is really key. And you know, part of what we teach in the course is simply the best practices in environmental medicine, which states, well, maybe you should take a vacation from your sick environment. And whether, whether it's emfs or mold or chemicals or just the fact that you're stressed or even, even, I don't know, you live, let's say if you live in Montreal or you live in LA or in a big city, you are under stress just because you live in a city. For many factors. If you get out of this environment and you feel completely different, which is my case, has been my case for years. Nowadays it's a little bit, I feel better in a city because I'm getting healthier. But if that's your case, you owe it to yourself to investigate the factors that could be the main ones for you. So maybe you have more mold in your home and maybe this home cannot be remediated, you have to move. But maybe it's a cell phone tower, or maybe it's just that back at home you have bad habits that put you in stress. And one of them could be relationships or work. But there's a lot of factors to look at the problem, Josh, and why I'm still on podcast every freaking week and I've been for two years doing like a hundred interviews.

Yeah, baby, keep going.

This message, why am I repeating this message? It's very simple. People don't get it. And most people just unwillingly, they forget about emf. So they will say, oh, it's probably mold, it's probably chemicals, it's probably stress. You're probably just had an argument with your wife and it's getting on your nerves. Well, no one even looks at where is the WI fi router. And sometimes people sleep right behind their head at the wifi router. You know, so let's remove all these possible factors and then you can literally see a difference. For some people, I tell them, turn off your cell phone at night or just hit this big airplane mode button. And even people who tell me I have no sensitivity to EMFs, like I have never realized that my cell phone gives me a headache or anything, or tingling sensation, any of that stuff. And yet they tell me, nick, I slept better so how can you explain that? Of course it's anecdotal, but no one comes back to me and tells me no. I feel the same. Everyone is like, oh, yeah, I slept better, I think.

Nick, Nick, how are you dealing with all this? Because I'm just curious, from an emotional intelligence standpoint, like, how are you buffering all the possible frustration that you feel, maybe even anxiety, because as you go deeper into this world, you know so much that we don't know. How are you dealing with all this information that you're taking in? And what kind of strategy do you have so that this, this stress and anxiety passes through you and it doesn't stay in?

I had none, Josh. I had none for, for, for two years. I guess I became very anxious about the situation and what I did this year. This year a big shift as. As happened. I don't know exactly where it started. I can, I'll have to meditate on that, I think. But I mean, it led to eventually me reaching out to you because I'll be going to Rythmia in January.

Yes.

And, and it's huge. It's a huge step in the right direction. But I felt anxious because I was consuming, literally, I mean, hours everyday EMF information. So it means you're hearing about bad news and bad news and the world is a scary place. I was brainwashing myself for negativity in some sense, and even if that's the truth, it was too much to bear. So I did become. And there's also overwork in my tendency to go back to my old self. Caffeine and loud music and work, work, work and event. I just get exhausted and then I become. There's, there's a depression period of eight weeks and then I feel perfectly fine and I rinse and repeat. So these cycles have been just repeating themselves. And on top of that, the anxiety of the MF topic in itself was, was really hard. You know, this year what I'm doing differently is I'm consuming way less information than I used to. When I listen to podcasts, it is personal development. I listen to Gesture Trent. I listened to Paul Check. I listened to Kyle Kingsbury, positive man who inspired me. And I developed myself and I feel that now I can cope way better with the negativity because I'm like, oh, okay, yes, for sure it is scary. It is negative because, you know, EMF activists, they have it hard right now. Why? Well, it's getting worse by the day. So you, you. It's like being a fighter for the movement, against Monsanto. But you're in 1998. Like you have a long way to go.

That's so true, man. And thank you for, for shouting out my name with all those respected names. Because we're all in the same tribe and I told you this before we even got on the show. Everyone here with us, Nick, we're all discovering, aren't we? Like, let's just be honest, my friends, we're all just discovering the truth. We're discovering physical and emotional intelligence. And I've always felt this way. I'm curious how you, you feel. Especially in the past two years, this has become even more true for me. Intelligence is not about what you know, intelligence is about how do we gather information effectively and consciously, how do we apply the information, Getting the blockers, reading the books, trying it on. And then lastly, man, how do we embody the information? And this is what I sense from you as like a soul brother in the same tribe where you've, you've gathered. I mean, you're an investigative journalist. Like you know how to gather, dude. And then on top of that, you also know how to apply. You've done the tests, you've written the books, you've done the webinars, you've done the speaking. When it comes to embodiment of all these lessons, what does this Rhythmia piece actually mean to you? Like, what are you in the process of embodying with all that?

You know, it's just my life has been work focused since uni. Basically. I wake up in the morning, I start thinking about my day. It's about being productive, it's about being disciplined. And I just find myself in these cycles of unhappiness and then happiness and unhappiness for a few months and then happiness. And I'm just sick and I don't understand. I'm chasing. You know, as an entrepreneur, it's very easy, I think, to be onto the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And even it happened to me, I think the last straw that broke the camel's back was, was this last launch that we did for our EMF course. And it went great, the profits were okay, but I was again, I spent more time in front of the computer than ever before. 1012 hour days for maybe 10 weeks. And the last time around, maybe it was five months. So it was getting better. But I still, I wasn't willing to do this, to make this sacrifice. So I felt forced into it by my business. So there's a question, who's the boss? Is it the business, the monster that I've created or is it Nick and Jen, my co CEO? So I ended up being like, you know what? I'm not launching. I'm done with EMFs. And I always do that after a big launch. So I fall so much out of balance that I become allergic to the topic I used to be passionate about. And this time around it was less dramatic than ever before. But I don't want to fall out of balance. I want to model my life differently and stay, just stay freaking happy. Or else I will not be able to put in my personal resources while being a happy human being myself, being a good husband, a good lover, a good dad, a good friend, a good colleague and all these hats that you have to wear in life. Well, if I focus so much on business, I don't become good for any of those roles. I become like, either they're half done or they're simply ignored. I used to ignore my friends for almost a year because I was working my ass off as an entrepreneur. So each time I have regrets, I'm like, ah, I didn't talk to my friends for a year. It sucks. Now I want to reconnect. So it's this wave of up and down and up and down that I guess is part of maybe the entrepreneurial journey for a lot of people. But as I'm going to turn 31 in three days and for me it's like, okay, what is this new version of myself in my 30s and it's certainly not waking up in the morning and being all about work because I have a little 15 month old little guy at home and I want to travel. And since I did that, since I did this switch. Well, after that one thing led to another. I started indulging, I think almost abusing personal development, which is a good thing. But I tend to have addictive, so I'm overdoing it. And I'm taking a bath at night with Epsom salt and sodium bicarbonate and some essential oils. And then I do the meditation and I've had, man, I don't know how to tell you that I've had such moments of just breaking down in tears over stuff that comes out, like random stuff like my relationship to my father, my past, my weaknesses, my, my self confidence. So many things have come out and I'm like, okay, Nick, maybe you've been postponing this detox because you're so focused in your head. And I'm like, okay, now maybe it's a season in my life where I'M gonna just listen to my intuition again. And it brought me back to moments where I've been extremely happy in my life. And I used to be extremely intuition, intuitive. Everything came to me, was a natural. In school, I had instant inspiration as a copywriter. I was just trusting that whatever it is, my subconscious universe, I don't know yet what I believe in, but it would just bring it to me the very second. And I've lost touch with that. And now that I'm reconnecting with that, everything is falling in place and I don't feel rushed, I don't feel stressed out, anxious, and I'm just in a good spot. So I'm gonna surf on that. And this is really big shift that's been happening since I guess you know what it is, I think, and I don't know if I'm trying to play tricks with my mind. I think it's the fun medicine calling me in some sense and saying, nick, look, you've been so backed up on emotions, I'm gonna give you a few hints of what's in there. So maybe you'd start the work by yourself because you're not gonna like me in January.

This is such a massive point man. And thank for sharing that. Because this is this the topic of electromagnetic frequency, let's be honest, it's a very like analytical, logical topic. And I think why myself and a lot of people that, that like to do in this world, because we want to be of service in the world. Most people here in our conversation listening to us, they want to get the PDF, they want to read the book, they want to get the gathering, and that's fine. I love that. But what I heard from you and what I felt from you is that not only do you do the gathering and the sharing, but you're also on this path of spiritual evolution when you're really on the path of trust. And I think about the definition of trusting. This is a belief, this is a faith, regardless of current exterior circumstances. It's a trust mechanism. And that trust mechanism is connected to higher power. It's connected to God of some sort. And I'm not talking about a bearded dude in the sky. I'm talking about why the hell we're even here in the first place. The undercurrent, the thing that fuels life itself, the thing that allows me to connect with you for people to connect with us, for people to hug one another or care for one another or be of service to one another. Like that's the whole point of us being Here. And I think you're right. Sometimes higher power calls us through different vehicles. It could be breath work, it could be plant medicine, it could be going down on a journey to India. There's so many ways that people get connected to themselves, which is God individuated experiencing God self in people. This is why I sense really the power of what you're doing. And I'm so excited, Nick, to see what you're going to create in the next year, especially after you come back from rythmia. What's your intuitive sense feel? Do you feel like you're going to pivot or are you going to change your messaging around EMFs or what do you think? What does your creativity and your trust mechanism tell you about what's coming for you in the future?

Yeah, it's wow. I'm glad I can share that. I think I've been meditating on it and really this question that Paul Check asks is what is your dream? Because if you're not creating your dream, it's your nightmare. And I've been pondering about that. I'm like, oh, Nick, you actually don't know what the hell you're doing. Like I don't have a clear vision. So I'm going to work on my vision. But part of what I'm seeing here is I'm already past in my soul, I'm past the EMF problem because I realized there's, yes, awareness will bring consumer demand for safer technologies and then eventually we're going to sort this out. But I think that we as humanity face a crisis in how technological development is happening at a frantic pace that is more rapid than our ability to study the effects of these technologies. So I'm like, okay, well if we try to talk against 4G and 5G, that is being rolled out right now, well, what's going to happen once 6G hits the ground? And it is happening with within 10 to 20 years because the industry people want to stay cutting edge. They've been meeting in last March in Europe to discuss 6G, what could it be like? But you know, there's 6G is just a new iteration. They're always looking at what is the future of technology. But there's not one guy on the committee or if there is, I will be glad that there is. But so far I haven't seen in these research and development team, there's not one guy that knows engineering and biology.

You know what I find so fascinating, Nick, is there's people that are already thinking about how do we make 6G when we haven't even explored the ramifications of 3, 4, and 5. And this actually speaks to the path that you and I both are on. And I feel people that are here with us, it's the same path we're all on, and that is the path of evolution. Inside of evolution is the word love. So we're trying to figure out how do we evolve from a place of. Of love, but in duality, on the other side of the light, there is this darkness of exploration and expansion where it's like, hey, let's see, we can do, just for the, quote, sake of seeing what we can do. It's putting progress just for the sake of pure progress, without even taking a breath and pausing and asking, what is this actually doing to our life, to the world, and to the people that are here that we care about? This is the bigger question. This is the question that is more of a philosophy and a spiritual nature. And this is why my next question for you is, is if you were to wave a magic wand, let's say you had the power and you could literally lead a movement in a healthy way for your own health and for your family, you could lead a movement to diminish the. The EMFs that we're all having, what would you do, man? If you were in a government position, if you were the president or. Or the governor of a large metropolitan area and you had massive input as to policies or programs, what's the magic wand you would wave?

I would mandate, I don't know, planetary politics enough to say what organization might be, the United nations might be. We need a treaty between all countries that would agree that we stop the expansion of our current use of RLS technologies. And we quite possibly roll back at the same time to levels that have been deemed at least safer. Because I don't think it's going to be that realistic to stop all wireless technologies worldwide. And we need to fund developing technologies that are safer. And there are good alternatives. We would mandate, for example, wired connections everywhere in cafes and parks. You could plug your stuff in because we know this stuff is safe. So stopping this wireless madness so we at least can study current technologies would be what I would do and what they would quickly discover, because it's already there. The data is there. Is that. Oh. Oh, my God. Well, 2G. 3G. 4G isn't safe, so we're going to stop. 5G. It's out of the question. 6G. Guys, sorry. We're going to just put that back on the drawing board. And we need to change our communication systems worldwide. That's going to take quite a few years. But we need to do it. There are 6 billion cell phone users right now that are getting exposed to levels that are not conductive to health and that could be even have disastrous future effects for future generations. So we need to fix that. That's what I would do. I would say, guys, let's put an end to this. It's not like we cannot really go back to an Internet free era or to communications free era. I don't think, I don't think we can ever do. No, I don't think so. But if we are ever to create, let's say biocompatible wireless technologies. I don't even know if there's such a thing. I'm exploring the topic. It's a long term project of mine. Is it possible to have healing frequency? I know this is something I think you mentioned with Tabby is some people think it might be possible, some others think no. But the important thing is that we don't make the problem worse. Worse because we've already kind of blurred all the data. We can barely study our 3G, 4G, 5G technologies because everyone is exposed to all of those. We don't have a control group. We cannot differentiate. Was 2G damaging? Was it 3G? Was it 4G? Was it LTE? So it's a mess on a scientific standpoint trying to understand how it's affecting us. So we to need, need to stop expanding. But it means that we would put humanity first and corporations and profits second. And that's a huge shift.

This is a big mountain to climb, my friend. It is, it is exhausting for some people to even think about.

It is conscious capitalism, you know, capitalism that is done. Yes, you have profits, but you're not, not profiting off of people, off of the environment. You're leaving the planet richer on all levels and not just in your own pockets, but on the soil and all of biology. This is really the shift that needs to happen in humanity or else we're going to kill ourselves. We're already in the process. So the reality is if we develop a new technology, we need to test it beforehand. And if this technology isn't safe for the next billion years years, well, we have an issue because so far we're stuck on this planet together. So we cannot leave it and go to Mars or something. So it's simply we need real sustainability on a technological standpoint. And you know, things are kind of aligned right now because all of a sudden I Find myself in this spot where I'm like all. I don't know how Jen put it, like, you're becoming like a super spiritual or spiritual superhero. Because I go and I tell her about my breakthroughs and it's like, who are you, man? So I am having that. And on top of that, I'm attending a conscious capitalism conference here in Montreal. I've been invited out of the blue. LinkedIn invite from someone I knew, from friend of a friend who said, hey, Nick, I think you'd be a good fit for that. Okay. And I'm going to attend this conference where really I'm trying to understand, you know, these CEOs who work for the telecoms, people who invent cell phones, people who install NFT antennas. They each have the possibility to be worried about the topic, to look for better solutions. And they don't want their kids to be sick, they don't want themselves to be sick. So in reality, these are human beings. And if we increase the level of consciousness of corporations that are developing this tech, maybe we can reach a point where a tech company is a company that creates health and not addiction with devices that are literally programmed to make adults and children addicted to the interface. And you have the good news. What I'm seeing is a movement in Silicon Valley where you have a few of the key engineers that were the original ones working on the iPhone, for example, and these large tech startups back in 2006-2010. You have Tristan Harris, for example, who's an incredible guy. Sam, center for Humane Tech is this project and he speaks in front of the top executives in Silicon Valley and he says, guys, we need to create technology in a way that respects human beings because we have created this addiction. We knew it would happen because this is how we've designed it, using the weak spots of human psyche. But then what happens after 10 years and their pockets full of cash, do you regret it? Yes, because they're human.

There's many, many people from Facebook that have come out on record. It's on YouTube if you search this former former Facebook CEO, former Facebook high level executive. And they're talking about, hey guys, we knew the whole time we were addicting you, we knew.

So I'm counting. I guess I still have good hopes that a few of them are going to come to their senses before the end of their career. Some of them are like my age, like 31, and they're coming to the realization like, yeah, I created something. Am we did the impossible with the iPhone, but maybe we should have Created it where it really connects us together. But now we're creating instead of disconnected society with everyone kind of goldfish like attention span. And this is not what they like seeing in the world. When they go to New York City and they walk, they see people walking around and bumping into each other and people not talking to each other. I'm sure this is not what they envisioned, but now it's here. We have to deal with it. And this is my hope. I think we will go in the second wave, second age of technology. The first one, it was, oh my God, everything is awesome. We're going to create all these machines. The second wave will be, what have we done? We need a new iteration and add the human back or else we're going to be even.

This is powerful. Nick, have you heard the story about Easter Island? Are you familiar with this?

Yeah. Well, the statues, the Moai in the Easter Island.

I want to tell this story because it is literally a historical mirror for exactly where we are in technological evolution. You know, for people that don't know Easter island, it's an island that's 2,000 miles out in the middle of the ocean, away from everything else. And there was a tribe that landed there. And over the course of millennia they had a religion that made them create these Moai statues. And there's actually, you know, it's interesting, man. There's one. There's some of these statues at Rythmia, which I asked Jerry and I was like, is this a reminder about where we're going as a humanity? And he said, no, I just like the statue. But for people that don't know the story and why this relates to all of us being here is that the statue was created by these tribes on Easter Island. They cut down all of their trees to worship the statue. Now, no one knows the behavioral science behind why they did it, but through archaeological evidence, they figured out that they cut down the trees to roll the statues close to the wall. Water. And then that's when the animals died. And then they became sick and they believed even cannibalism happened and then that that society perished. The metaphor here is that when we create a God of technology, when we try to grow something and worship something just for the sake of worshiping it, we get whipped up into this emotional frenzy. Gretchen Rubin calls it emotional contagion. So we get whipped up in emotional contagion where technology becomes the Moai on Easter Eggs island for us. And this is a real thing. I'm not putting fear in anyone's body. I'M just speaking about how history has patterns that repeat. And I'd love your thoughts on where we could go now as a parent, as a human, so that we can avoid the Moai in Easter island. Because I, I see the Moai as the God of technology.

Yeah, I, I think it's probably you pro. There's probably three things you can do. You can of course, educate yourself. So whether it's, it's my book, there's a lot of free information online that you can find. There's my YouTube channel and things where you can learn how to change your habits. And you take it one habit at a time and that way at least you do something after listening to this whole conversation and you start changing and you'll feel, I think you'll feel better and you'll learn in the process. And it's definitely not the easiest thing to do because invisible radiation, right? Some people feel it, but most people can't. So it's hard to. But it's as invisible as pesticides on your food. And yet a lot of people can understand the idea that you buy organic and you probably have less bad stuff on your food that's sprayed. So it's pretty much the same idea. So individually, change your habits and be the change you want to see in the world and in your family. So if you start doing something different for yourself, maybe your spouse will get on board and your kids will get on board. So you can also enforce new rules in the household also, although I don't know what it entails, so good luck with that. I just have a 15 month old so far. He listens to me or at least I can do stuff and it won't rebel against me. So warning with that. And the second thing you can do is actually start talking about it. It's difficult and it's not. I think there's a way to talk about it where it's empowering and informative. Some people would be tempted to say to their neighbor, turn off your darn WI fi router, you're keeping me awake at night. Well, so far we don't have rules for that, so be very gentle on them. You can either tell them to read my book or you can just hint that you know I feel better because I've turned off my wifi router. Why don't we all do the same in our condo unit or condo building so it's really something you can spread around and this is the only way. Before people knew that maybe pesticides aren't good, people weren't interested in organic farming. So we do need to spread awareness. And the third thing I would say is if you really resonate with this conversation, you can get involved. And on the advocacy standpoint, I'm really not the guy to go to. There's a lot of nonprofit organizations that are incredible. One of them is called the 5G crisis.com, if you want to. If you don't want 5G in your city, well, now it's getting a lot of attention. A lot of people don't want 5G. And it's. It's at least getting more noise in the mainstream media. And people are realizing, wait a minute, there's radiation. What is this? So at least it's in there somewhere in their conscious awareness that there's one such issue as cell phone radiation. So that's. I guess that's really.

Thank you, man. I love the way that you flesh out these concepts as well. Nick. This is. This has been such a joy to have you on the podcast and as we close this thing down, because, honestly, I just want to keep talking to you, and I know people listening, they just want to keep listening. But, you know, we took this conversation from technology to spirituality to personal development. And I'd like to come back around for inspired action, because I always believe this, man. You know, if we believe something to be true, that love will prevail, that together we can do this, that we're in a tribe, we're all connected. Well, then my thoughts are connected to those beliefs. And then, of course, then I start to feel emotional empowered after I have those thoughts, and then I take inspired action. So I'd love to spend just a few moments here on a rapid fire, just, you know, short answers for people that are feeling the inspired action. And the first question is, when it comes to a meter, what is the meter you recommend and what can we link in the show notes to, actually, to guide the EMF?

Sure. It's called the Enviro so e n v r d Roger Dennis, 10rd 10. And that's on a website called roger rad r a d meters plural dot com. So radmeters dot com and that's a good little meter. It's pocket size. And I have a couple YouTube videos where you can see me using it to. It's really. It's a meter that won't give you precise readings, but that's not the goal. But it can tell you, is my computer emitting EMF radiation? Is this thing on? Is this thing off? And unless you are very sensitive, most People get frustrated because they cannot feel it. So, so you cannot, for example, you cannot tell if your Bluetooth alarm clock is always constantly emitting although it is not connected to Bluetooth device. And a lot of bluetooth devices emit 24,7 regardless of if you connect to them or not. So this is the kind of surprising sources that are hidden in your environment that you're going to find if you use a meter.

What is the top tip that you have for us to turn off the wifi router at home? Is it a timer that we plug in or what is the number one thing we can do at home Home to mitigate the WI FI EMF Christmas Light Timer.

Even better is, especially if you're a parent and you have young children and no one in the household is really connected to WI fi. Just open the WI FI router when you need it, just like you would start your toaster, you know. So change the way you use technology from always on. Sometimes you turn it off. Instead use always off and sometimes you turn it on as you need it.

Oh, this is powerful. And then I think about people that are looking from a nutrition standpoint too. What are the top three or five supplements that we can do to alleviate the stress of emf?

Sure. Well, any, any type of high antioxidant food, whether it's olive oil or berries or cruciferous veggies. They're, they're all shown to, to help support or mitigate the, the damage caused by emf. Another one would be ascorbic acid. I've seen conflicting reports and I'm not, let's say I'm not a nutrition expert enough to say who's right. Some people say, oh, you should be natural vitamin C or from foods. Some other people say, no, good old ascorbic acid works. I take ascorbic acid, so I've decided for that. And molecular hydrogen. So hydrogen rich water is also great and I'm gonna name fourth one. Magnesium is also very, very important, especially if you have a deficiency. It actually makes you more prone to get oxidized by these.

And we're all magnes deficient as well, so. So magnesium. And I've heard of this company called TRUSI for molecular hydrogen. Have you heard of them?

I did hear about them and I. Some people have run into issues. I'm still investigating whether they're going to fix them, but there's a few good companies out there. TRUSY is one I used to recommend. At the moment I'm a little bit prudent, but I'm just looking. They've had some issues on the customer support side. There's vital reactions. There's a few good brands out there, but if you want to look in molecular hydrogen, have the best information. I would going to a guy called Tyler Labaron and he has been doing so many podcasts all around the health space online and he really knows his stuff. So the brand he recommends are probably the best ones.

And the last one, man, is really a question for you to just expound upon who you actually are, what you're doing in this world, why you're here, and what wellness means to you. If you were to just distill and encapsulate your definition of being well, of living life well, how would you define wellness? What does wellness mean, mean to you?

To me, it's feeling centered. It's feeling like most aspects of your, of your life have been, are happening for a reason. You, you've decided what you want your clothing to be like, what you want your lifestyle to be like, who you want to hang out with, how you want to feel. And it's something I'm still working on, but I know what the feeling is when everything is just right. You're just happy by default. And I feel, feel that every time I add these layers of complexity or overworking or I feel out of balance is just adding noise to my normal happiness. The happiness is still there, but I can feel it. I cannot feel it because of all this noise. So it's really a centered feeling where you are intentionally building your dream. Just as Paul Check talks about, you're building your dream and then because it's not, you're never really achieving it because that's. I guess it never happens like the perfect life. It's always in motion. But at least you're always sailing your ship in the right direction and not to another random place that you end up not. You end up finding an island and it's not the right island. Right kind of climbing the wrong lap. So for me, it's all about feeling balanced and centered.

I have loved this so much, man, and thank you for doing the work you do in the world. You're a father, you're in a relationship, you lead a company, you're writing books, you're doing a lot. And the fact that you've reminded all of us that we get to be on the ship because we're the captain of the ship, man, woman, however you identify, we are the captain of our ship. So thank you so much, so much for coming on the show and having this technology and philosophy conversation. Nick, I was really surprised where we went, but actually now I'm not that surprised because you have many layers, man. The EMF guy.com is where people can go to learn more about you, your courses, your programs, your book and everything else. But where can people go to connect with you? I mean where are you the most active online and do you have times maybe like you only do it for an hour a day or when could.

People do it a little bit? On my Facebook page I do respond to some comments. These days I've really eliminated a lot. I'm not as active on social as I used to because again I was just spread 210 and my time is extremely limited. But if you go on my website, there's even a contact form in there and there's a place where you can register to my newsletter. And I send this newsletter out two, three times per week. I still write a lot. I write personal updates about my life, about what I'm doing and about my work. So it's a very personal style that I've, I've been writing my newsletter for wow, a year, seven, eight years now. So people who get want to join my tribe and like the conversation. That's really. I would go to theemfguy.com and register for the newsletter. That's the best place to go.

Okay my friend, we'll meet you there. Thanks for coming on the show and we're going to be talking about you a lot in The WellnessForce group. Wellnessforce.com group. Nick, thanks for coming on man. Really it appreciate, appreciate you.

Thanks Josh. I love our conversation. Thank you so much.

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