304 Dr. Ann Shippy: The Hidden Dangers of Toxic Mold & What To Do About It

When you partner with your body and really do listen and provide it with what it needs and not overwhelm it with what's causing the hurdles, it's got an extraordinary capacity to heal. It's going to take care of you. Start with one step, because even those little steps can really add up to making a difference. If you only do one thing. Eat the vegetables that help your body detoxify better. So the broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, kale, that whole Croiss family. It's more than just the calories that we get from them. It's the potency of those very detailed little chemical messengers that help our bodies know what to do quelch the inflammation that are so, so powerful. So getting the good things in and then not eating the things that we know can be harmful, like sugar, just start there.

That's Dr. Anne Shippy, and this is episode 304 of Wellness Force Radio. Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and low sug intelligence to live life well.

You can have the same brain states as someone who's done an hour of meditation every day for 40 years.

There's a lot of losses that we go through. So the ability to be able to cope with those losses is very important.

To build skill in it, because loss will happen.

You know, you have to have spiritual.

Courage to really grow spiritually, because if you really want to take guidance from.

Your soul, you have to be ready.

To realize that many of the things.

That you're asking for guidance on, your.

Ego has some kind of an addiction to or an investment in.

What's going on? Podcast land. It's Josh Trent, and this is Wellness Force. Today we're bringing you a physical intelligence focused episode. We're going to explore the real truths about toxic mold and mold toxicity. I'm almost thoroughly convinced, by the way, that my apartment back in Encinitas had mold. It was like super dark in there. They had had water leaks beforehand. It was something like, I never really just felt right. You ever been in a place and you clean it and you just don't feel right? Well, I've been in Sedona for about a week now, and I'm already feeling a lot better and more well rested. This podcast is going to be big for you if you have friends or family or relative, relatives that you have a suspicion or a hunch might have some mold. This is going to be a very pragmatic and practical podcast. But I talked about my good night's sleep here in Sedona. Well, I'm in a new Relationship. That's one part. But I also have a secret weapon. I have the Organifi Gold, which is one of those irreplaceable tools. It gives me quality sleep, especially after I've had a long day. The turmeric, the reishi, along with the lemon balm and magnesium, it just works. I don't know any other way I could say it. If you travel yourself or if you have a stressful life and. And you feel like the thoughts in the monkey mind kind of race at night, give this drink a test drive. This is a 100% organic superfood powder. It's the only product I drink in the evenings besides water. I actually take it with water or I make a little golden milk. Now, because you listen to the podcast, you get the hookup. You get 20% off at Organifi.com wellnessforce just use code wellnessforce over at Organifi.com wellnessforce and get 20% off by using the code wellnessforce. You know, I'm looking at the container right now, and it says, mother Nature's best calming herbs in one delicious mug. That's some good marketing right there. It's also amazing, though, and it works. That's why I care about this product, and that's why we've been in relationship with Organifi. They've been supporting the show for almost two years now. So go support them. We'll keep bringing you this amazing content, and you can save 20% off@organifi.com Wellnessforce Now, I was talking about my move out here to Sedona. It's been the adjustment, my friend. Been the adjustment. It's been about a week. I'm feeling better. I never did get the mold test at my old house. But beyond just those anecdotal feelings we all have, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in the USA that experience symptoms of mold toxicity and allergies. And it's no surprise on the other side of this that the portion of functional medicine and science that's been growing so quickly to address the health concerns when it comes to mold has never had more investment than now. But we know there's a big difference between toxicity and allergy. And if you don't know, we're gonna explore that today in this Physical intelligence episode with Dr. Ann Shippy. I got to meet her at Paleo FX in Austin. She is such a sweet and powerful woman. She's a wealth of knowledge, and she's got a really deep heart. I know you're gonna enjoy her presence her story. She has an incredible story with health challenges and being a mother and taking care of life and business. And watch how she navigated this thing. You're really gonna enjoy this. More importantly, you're gonna see how she now serves her patients in Austin, Texas and across the world@doct shippy.com and my intention is that at the end of this podcast, you have a depth of knowledge about how to test if you yourself are experiencing mold allergies or toxicity. We'll talk about home testing and also the ERMI test. This is a mycotoxin test you can do on the dust through a certified licensed inspector or practitioner. This toxicity and mold and allergy is freaking crazy. This the list of symptoms is so long, the trouble that it can cause to the body. And I say this, I urge you, if you have someone in your life or your family or your circles who has mystery symptoms, send them the right way. Send them this podcast if you suspect they might be dealing with mold toxicity or mold allergy. And can I ask you for one more favor? If you've been listening to the show for a while, if you just joined us, if you're getting something from these podcasts, I would so appreciate you heading over to itunes. Leaving the podcast, a five star review, you can simply go to wellnessforce.com review or you can go right into itunes. But you know what, the forward slash review one super easy. You can do it like right from your iPhone. This is how we reach more people like you who are in the collective, who care about wellness, who are doing this discovery process of physical and emotional so we can bring you even more powerful content in the future for free because of you. So thanks for your review over@wellnessforce.com review. Now let's get into this epic conversation with the one and only Dr. Anne Shippey. Dr. Anne Shippy, welcome to Wellness Force. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have the conversation with you.

Me too. You know, it was great meeting you in Austin at the Paleo conference. I feel like that's the global meetup for all things wellness, paleo and pretty much everything health. And I was inspired by your work in mold and toxicity. And this phrase you say, get better with age. How did you come up with this phrase? People know you in functional medicine and health and being a doctor. But this phrase, get better with age, how did that come about?

I was describing what my mission is for helping my patients and the other people that I talk with. And that was what was reflected Back to me. Oh, you help people get better with age. Yes. It's so perfect because we really can improve how our bodies are working and kind of dodge that whole aging process. So many people think, oh, that's just normal as you're aging, but it's really not. You should feel great as you're accumulating the years behind you.

One of the things I love about you when I was researching for the show is you do conventional, but you also do complementary therapies. You know, looking at the body as a whole human being. You and I are in this industry and a lot of our audience has heard of the concept of whole body, whole body healing, whole body approach. But when you look at functional medicine and when you look at these complementary therapies, how would you describe this? Like, what is your definition of treating the body as a whole unit, as a whole being?

Well, it's realizing that we can't just look at the heart, we can't just look at the brain. It's really all the little chemical messengers in the body are communicating throughout, you know, from your toe to brain cells, all those, you're just swimming in this key or the sea of chemic and little hormone molecules that are communicating what's going on in the world, in your world, so that your body knows how to respond. And so we can't just take one piece at a time because especially with what's going on with the gut affects every piece of the rest of your body.

Yeah, everything is so synergistic and the body's always trying to find homeostasis. And if we can actually just most of the time, get out of the way, the body will find its true north, it'll find its center. A lot of things that you deal with with patients and with people that come to your website, you really break down into six key categories. It's obviously, number one is our lifestyle, there's our genetics, there's nutrition, there's science, there's well being. But there's a category that you are really world class in, and this is toxicity. And this is why I wanted to spotlight your work on our show. You know, we've talked about, with Dr. Minkoff, we've talked about, you know, detoxification as a lifestyle. And we've gone into this with Leona Werner Gray with the ear diet. But I'm curious from your perspective, if we look at the bandwidth, this is a very big topic of toxicity. Can you paint a quick picture for us of what the key components of toxicity really are?

Yes. And it's perfect for my chemical engineering brain. So I was a chemical engineer for 10 years before I went back to medical school after going through a major health crisis. And so when I look at patients, I'm really delving deep into what are all the laboratory tests that I can look at and try to figure out what the root cause is. Why is the body going awry? Because like you said, it wants to be in homeostasis. So I've been doing this for over 14 years and when I started first delving into it, I was so focused on just getting the right nutrients in and what does the body really need to run the biochemistry and physiology. But then I kept breading up against when I'd run heavy metal tests and looking at things like pesticides, mold, toxins, I just kept seeing more and more and more of an issue. So these little bits that we're exposed to that are totally invisible every day it might be something like getting some aluminum from drinking sparkling water out of a can or putting on aluminum deodorant or a skin care product that has BPA type products in it, the plastics in it. So all those, those little bits start bombarding the body and overwhelming the body's detoxification systems. So the ability of the body to get rid of them and then they start accumulating and then really interfering with how hormones are working, how the DNA is being expressed. So many different areas of the body just depending on where your weak spot is.

This is a great way to describe it. Thank you for that high level, because I want to go way deeper with you. We always talk at this intersection, Ann, of physical and emotional intelligence. I've just found over my 15 plus years here in our space, like intelligence is actually less about what you know and it's more about what you're willing to apply and embody. And this is the key aspect of people that get stuck in the gathering phase. And, and, and my heart goes out to people that maybe are listening right now, that have a family member or maybe themselves that are dealing with a physical or, or a genetic or environmental issue. Most people get stuck in, in the gathering phase, they get the books, the PDFs and everything else. When it comes to toxicity specifically, where do people actually begin so that they can gather, apply and embody?

So just do what you can do today, like start with one step because even those little steps can really add up to making a difference. So when I talk with people, we, you know, I give them lots of different things that they can do. So, you know, you and I are both on a paleo path. So what, you know, realizing the power of what we're eating, if you only do one thing, eat the vegetables that help your body to detoxify better. So the broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, kale, that whole cruciferous family. We had a little worship of blueberries earlier.

That's right. I was like, thank Great Spirit for blueberries. They're my favorite.

Well, and they have so many powerful nutrients in them. It's more than just the calories that we get from them. It's the potency of those very detailed little chemical messengers in them that help our bodies know what to do, quelch the inflammation that are so, so powerful. So just those simple things of getting the good things in and then not eating the things that we know can be harmful, like sugar. Just start there.

Ah, that's so beautiful. And sometimes the truth, it seems to the logical mind like, oh, it's too simple. It can't be that simple. Dr. Shippy, like, no. So what you're telling me is I just eat vegetables and cruciferous and these detoxification pathways that are activated through these healthy foods, it can be that simple. And that can make a really, really big impact. Right. I mean, this is something that I really want to let sit for the listener.

And it's foundational. It's like collaborating with our bodies, you know, getting back to just providing our bodies with what they need to work optimally.

Yeah. You went through this yourself, and I, you know, I'd love to explore your journey here because, you know, you're an achiever. You don't become an engineer, a mom, and a physician overnight. So I'm sure that. I'm sure that on your path to become all these things, your health was challenged. And I'm guessing I'd love for you to share what did that look like? For you to navigate the waters of those three things and be who you are now.

I've had quite a collaboration with my body over time. I really thought I was going be with IBM for my entire career. I loved what I was doing. I was getting to do things like get rid of chlorofluorocarbons in our manufacturing, cleaning process. Thank you for the circuit boards. You know, take better care of the environment. Right. Be very proactive to not be polluting. Polluting people. And I went on vacation and came back and I could not keep weight on. I. I looked like I was a cancer survivor. And so it was before the Internet, and I had to start doing what you were Talking about just gathering all the information I could to start trying different things to see what would heal my body. Somehow. I was so fortunate to know that I didn't have to just be satisfied with the band aids and the lack of getting to the root cause of what was going on with me. I knew there was an answer. And so then when I got better, I decided I wanted to have a medical degree as a found, but that I wanted to really practice medicine differently. I wanted to partner with the patient and their body to figure out what it was going to take to get that true healing process happening. And then I had a child in med school and a child in residency. So then my path wasn't clear. So I just went into the traditional internal medicine for a few years. But then I developed a couple of autoimmune disorders. And having done a lot of immunology and rheumatology in my practice and in my residency, I knew that I didn't want to just take those drugs that would keep me from having a stroke.

I got to pause you because my curiosity is on fire and I know someone listening, they're feeling the same way you talk about. I had a couple of autoimmune issues. Those are really big thresholds of growth in someone's life, especially a professional like yourself. Can you look back and see why those things might have happened or can you see how you're learning in emotional intelligence allowed you to see those as gifts that were actually happening for you.

They were truly one of my. I've had multiple things like that that I feel like they were there. They were disastrous in some ways, but they were pivotal points in my life that got me on the path that I am today and over and over again, be able to hold a space for my patients and other people to know that even when there is not supposed to be answers as to healing these things that your body can heal if it has the right environment to heal. So for me, with autoimmune diseases, I think I got very nutritionally depleted because I had the stress of med school and residency in my 30s.

That is no joke at all. I mean, we've heard that from Lyssa Rankin. She wrote a book about her process going through medicine. It's probably one of the most stressful industries in the world.

It is. And to do it, I was on call every third night, every fourth night for one of the busiest ICD use and hospitals in, I would say, in Texas. And I had a point where I had to decide, do I want to be a Mom or not, because I had had some fertility issues even before I went to med school. And so I was like, okay, I need to get on this as far as having babies. So I had one present pregnancy in med school and one in residency. So that added to that. And then I felt, you know, I knew about how important breastfeeding was, so both of my children never got any formula, and they. So I was carrying around my breast pump everywhere through the hospitals and through Austin to make sure that they got the right nutrition to start out with for a year.

You had to go into mother warrior mode. I'm sorry. Like, I can visualize you carrying that around, going through your day. There's no way that without the right mindset, you could have survived that. Like, what was your mindset? Going through all these hurdles?

It was to it, you know, looking back, I'm like, oh, my gosh, how did I do that? But at the time, it was just what I wanted to do. It's my priority. And what was important to me, you know, I wanted to be the best doctor that I could and be the best colleague with my fellow residents and the best teacher that I could be for the interns and also the best mom I could be. It was just kind of hardwired into knowing that what was important to me was possible.

I'm speaking to the parents right now. I have two nieces, one nephew. I see my brother's life completely transform in the way that when he became a father. And I know people listening can relate to this, when you become a parent, it pulls a strength out of you that is pretty much not possible in any other aspect of life. Would you agree that becoming a mother lit an even brighter and bigger fire for the work that you do and how you serve the world?

Absolutely. That's so well said. And just the way you describe that, I can feel like tingling throughout my body because it activates your. I think it activates your DNA.

It turns some kind of epigenetic signal on, doesn't it?

I'm sure it does, yeah.

Well, this is fascinating to me because you deal so deeply in functional and in what turns on and what turns off based on health or based on disease. And one of the biggest things, now that we understand kind of who you are, I really get a picture of you as an emotionally intelligent woman, you know, Would you say that you're a spiritual woman as well?

Oh, absolutely. There's. I could not have done this without support. Beyond me. There's something beyond me that's, you know, it's caused me to find this journey that I get to have work that I absolutely love and feel. So, you know, beyond words, able to contribute every day. So, absolutely.

Do you feel, in a way that that's what gives you fuel to continue to serve, is that connection with somewhat of a higher power?

Absolutely, yes. I feel like there's some guidance happening.

Yeah, we're supported. I think people forget this, and we've been focusing so much more on this connection between what we're about to dive into, which is the physical intelligence and the emotional intelligence. But also, there is this piece of spirituality that we've been getting more and more requests for on the show, and it's because we're not here to do it alone. Like, the reason why people come to you, Ann, is because they sense that you can give them guidance, but you also get guidance from a higher power yourself. So I just wanted to make that known and let that drop for a moment. None of us are here alone. You're on this podcast with us. You're connecting with us. You're learning, you're discovering. We are all doing this together. And when it comes to discovering the physical intelligence, there are those six pillars we talked about with you, the toxicity one. I want to go deep with you because there's so much confusion about the mold allergy versus the mold toxicity. In January, I had sinusitis. Very bad. I actually had to get a balloon sinuplasty. And I was wondering, should I get a mold test for my apartment? You know, what's going on? Like, why are my sinuses continuing to be inflamed? And I went ahead and I just said, you know what? I'm gonna leave my place for two weeks, and that's gonna. If my symptoms improve, then that's gonna be a way for me to identify. Maybe I have mold in my home. Let's distinguish this first, though, when it comes to allergy and toxicity. Where do we start there? When it comes to mold toxicity.

Yes. And I had the opportunity to learn about all of these in my own body.

Yay for lessons. Thank you.

Yes. The toxicity side is. You know, to me, that's the scariest in a way, because it's definitely. It's affecting your DNA, it's affecting your mitochondria, affecting the cell membranes, damaging the liver, kidneys, and can even cause cancer. And it seems to find the weakest link in your body. So when I had started learning about mold from a conference that Bill Ray put on years ago, I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm Missing this toxicity piece in some of my patients and had started to recognize it. And then I went through my own. I felt like it was a near death experience again, where I started having major neurological problems. I had exposure to a mold called Chetomium that the. The main chemicals that it makes really damaged the neurological symptom. It also interfered with hormones and that kind of thing. So I was to the point where I could hardly hold a full glass of water without dropping it or pick up my purse. It's so much pain in my body that I didn't want my kids to hug me. It just hurt so badly. And my hair was falling out all over the place. I was so exhausted on a Monday morning, I could hardly hop out of bed. And that had never been my situation. I'm always able to get up and go in the morning, so I was pretty scared. And I. I had already been doing functional medicine for a few years and I already knew what mold was, but I didn't recognize it in myself. I didn't know enough about it. And also it really accelerated the learning for me. And what really works to help to detoxify and heal the body when it has the toxicity piece.

How did you find out? Sorry for interrupting you here, but I'm so curious. Like, how did you find out where it was or how did you identify what it was?

Oh, I had an angel in my life. Like you said, there's. We're not in this.

You were supported.

Yeah, I was so supported. It turned out that one of my patients that I had been helping with chemical sensitivity at the time had previously had an exposure to chetomium. And she. I thought I had it all together one afternoon where I was meeting with her, and I evidently didn't. And she was like, oh, I can tell you're really sick. And my intuition is telling me that it's chetomium. And she's like, what time did you get off work today? And what's your address? She came into my house because she. This was such a gift of love. I think she had a specific reaction in her body if she got re exposed to it. And she could recover within, usually within, you know, an hour or two if she didn't have a long exposure. So she walked in and she was like, ann, this is Deutscheum. After just a couple minutes. And she's like, you can't stay here anymore. You need to get your kids out of here and don't take anything with you. And I was scared and I followed her instructions. I went and stayed with My parents. And then based on my functional medicine training, where I was already learning a lot about detoxification, figured out what worked for me to be able to detoxify. And now I've helped a lot of patients to see what works for most people. And then there can be some trial and error. Everybody's a little bit different. But there are certain things like liposomal glutathione and binders that can really help to pull the toxins out. But the number one thing. And which that was so smart of you to take some time out of your apartment.

Yes.

Is to get out. Otherwise, I describe it as. It's like trying to clean a dirty bathtub when you still got dirty water coming in. It's pretty much impossible.

Yes. By the way, you know, there's a part of me that's thinking, okay, the student actually became the teacher. A patient is the one that woke you up to the possibility of this specific neurological disruptor. Like, looking back on that. Isn't that a surreal moment?

Oh, and I'm so grateful, you know, because I think even, like, there's a possibility she might have had the thought but then not follow, you know, she cared about me so much that she took that. You know, she was willing to. You know, there's this doctor patient boundary that happens a lot of times, and that she. She took the initiative to cross that. And she was so clear about wanting to help me. Like, there was no accident. She was so, so clear. And it wasn't tomorrow. It wasn't sometime next week.

Right now.

It was urgent. Wow, this is getting dangerous. And I had already, you know, I had gone to multiple specialists in Austin. I had been to a neurologist, a hand specialist, an infectious disease specialist. Like, I knew something was really, really wrong. So I had exhausted the traditional allopathic medicine, and I had called several of my esteemed colleagues across the country that are, you know, detectives like me, and they didn't have any idea either. So I had actually said a prayer that morning for help. You know, I was like, I need help. And there she was.

Wow. I just gotta chill. If someone listening right now got an intuitive hit or they're lit up, head over to the website, anshippymd.com there's a ton of resources for you right now in this moment. So if you're feeling that hit, the same one that is supporting Ann in what she went through. Through. If you're experiencing some of the symptoms we're going to talk about, head over to our website right now. Let's talk about the symptoms, because there are some key specific symptoms to the toxicity and having mold in the home, right?

There are. There's some unusual things that some people get, like little muscle jumping, it's called fasciculations. Charley horses that are beyond the usual, like growing pain kinds of charley horses where you just get this severe clamping down. Some people will get these like, shooting pains in their head. And then there are things like what I had with the extreme fatigue and my hair just falling out of everywhere. Some people get. It just depends on where your weak link is. So a lot of things that I see actually affect the brain. So feeling like people have brain fog or headaches, you know, not able to make decisions so well, an uptick in anxiety or depression, ocd. And then some people get what's called depersonalization where they just don't quite feel like they're, you know, they, like they're in reality and.

But then can you tell us more about that? What do you mean? Like we're in a different dimension or.

Something from molds called depersonalization.

Okay.

So they don't. I've had, I might say, at least five patients that have had this where they don't. They don't feel like they're quite connecting with people anymore, like they're in an alternate reality. So mold has been the only thing that I know of that I've been able to find a cause for that out of at least five people. And then some people, they get psoriasis or severe skin rashes. Some people will just get nausea, vomiting, or other digestive complaints. Oh, and. And kind of different than the toxicity side of things that I want to make sure I mention is I had another run in a few years later with the asthma side. I had never had asthma and suddenly started having asthma. And it was a different type of mold than the Tutorium had really triggered my lungs. I have a tendency towards having a lot of allergy kinds of symptoms if I'm not eating Paleo.

Is that from the previous autoimmune or is that something more genetically expressed?

Totally different. So for people that have asthma, especially if it's new onset asthma, you really have to think about a mold exposure somewhere either in your home, your work, or in your car. So I didn't want to leave that out because a lot of environmental toxins can trigger asthma. But the sneaking up kind of thing, it's very common. There's a hidden water leak somewhere, you don't even know it's happening. But then your immune system is kind of screaming at you that there's an exposure to get rid of dev.

Yeah. The power of this too is there can be so many different discrepancies between what Google says, what physicians say. What do you think is one of the biggest pitfalls when it comes to people finding the truth about actually how to identify if their home has spores in it? In other words, can you give us the guidance on the truth of how to actually see and identify it being in the home or the apartment?

So there's a lot of technology that's being developed on this front because we really do have an epidemic with mold happening because of the building changes that have happened since the 70s, making the structure breathing less, holding in humidity, and then not drying out properly if there is some kind of a leak. And then the building materials a lot of times coming impregnated with mold spores already. So it's just like they get watered a little bit and then they can grow. So we have an epidemic happening and then we have technology that's being developed. But if you took 10 functional medicine doctors, we'd all have our own experiences and own recommendations on how to best test for it. So here's what I recommend. If you are suspicious, we do have a handout that has some of this information. It's just annshippymd.com mold and so you can see some of the companies and things that I like. I like to do the DNA testing. So it's like forensics, but instead of applied to, like human DNA, it'd be applied to mold DNA. And so there are several companies now that will do that. And I like doing the most expansive test. There are 45 different molds that are generally toxic that we can test for with that now. And it's using the dust. So the mold toxins and the mold spores with the DNA can build up in the dust. And then you get as much dust as you can and see if there's been a problem there.

And is that somebody coming into the home or do you send that out from the home in a kit?

You can do it yourself or you can hire an inspector to come and help you do that. But really, if you're going to have an inspector come, I would interview them first. I would find out if they do things like wear protective clothing, because if they're not putting on a respirator and they're opening up, you know, taking the air conditioning covers off and looking in there, or, you know, putting their noses right up to air conditioning vents so that they can see what's up in there or going up in the attic, even sometimes taking plugs off the wall and looking in there with scopes. If they're not protecting themselves, they do not understand how serious mold is. So find out things like that because you want somebody who really understands the health implications and isn't going to put themselves or their employees at risk. And then, you know, find out, do they do this DNA testing? Sometimes there is a place for doing the error testing, but that should also be test sent off for the DNA and not just somebody looking at it under a microscope. Because a lot of times that microscope work misses some of the mold spores.

What is the price range on this test? Because I think a lot of times people will say, oh, it's too expensive, I can't do it. But yet their symptoms could go on for years. So at what point do we spend the money to love ourselves?

I. Well, please don't wait until you're to the point that I was where I was, you know, on the edge of being dead or disabled. The sooner the better because the sooner you do it, it's the less expensive it is to fix. So the DNA tests run. The one that I like is called an HC45 and it's on that sheet. That one's in the three hundreds. And then I like to add a mycotoxin test to look for the different mold toxins. And that's in the three hundreds as. But it's, you know, it's worth it because it's using the technology to get the best data to know if you have a problem. Now, none of the tests are perfect because if you just. Some of these spores and toxins don't spread very far from the original source. So if you get a negative, it doesn't rule it out completely. Sometimes we have to go in and test multiple times or really get the experts in.

We need a skilled professional to look at the home and identify the trouble spots of where. Where these really residue and moisture might build up right under the sink in the corners of the room. Are there any traditional spots where it builds up? People can look?

Yes. And one of the things that people really miss are the obvious things like, you know, you've had a toilet overflow or a little roof leak. And if you don't really go back and fully dry out, what's gotten wet within 24 to 48 hours, it's highly likely that there's some hidden mold beyond the water spots. So first, go for the obvious things. I can't tell you how Many people were like, you know, when we really get into the details of their history, that, oh, yeah, we had a leak at this point, and then we find out, oh, well, there probably was some water that ran, places that it wasn't addressed, or things were just painted over. So go after those obvious things first. A lot of times, window flashings weren't done properly, so there can be a little bit of moisture that's accumulating, accumulating around window frames or even by the doors to the outside where water heaters and air conditioning systems drain are huge points for me. One of the. There were multiple problems in the house that I got so sick in, but there was a flashing in the chimney that when it would rain, the water would run down my son's bedroom wall and then down on the second floor and then down into mine on the first floor.

Wow.

And it wasn't enough that we could see, you know, we didn't get the wall wet enough that we could see where it was.

This, to me, is really a silent killer. And I'm not trying to scare anyone here, but if someone has gone through the gamut of identifying the core pillars of their lifestyle, they're eating organic foods, they're leading a healthy lifestyle, they're recognizing maybe any genetic predispositions they have. They've done the work, let's say, for a couple years, and then they're still having the brain fog, the disassociation, the cough, the fatigue, the weakness. At that point, I think we all just get to pull the trigger and do the testing. Does this sound like the right path?

It does. It does. And the other thing is that you can test yourself. There's a company called Real Time Laboratory that you don't even have to have a doctor to order it. I do the test a little bit more complicated than most people, but you can do the baseline test, where you just collect a morning urine and see if there are mycotoxins in it. If it comes back positive, you know, you have a mold exposure. If it's negative, especially for people like me, that don't make glutathione very well, because that's one of the main pathways that we clear. Heavy metals and mold toxins and a whole bunch of other toxins. I have people take a dose of liposomal glutathione and see if that helps to bring out the mold toxins. So we do the Real Time Lab twice. And then there's also another company that does some mold toxins that Real Time Lab doesn't do. So ideally, I like to do it three times the two times at real time lab and then once through Great Plains. And that's just. You can't use the glutathione test with them. You just do a basic first morning urine test.

Okay. This is powerful. And we're going to link all of this, including the free guide that you gave people and shippemd.com mold over at the website today. One thing that I was curious about is we know that pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, glyphosate, I mean, we've done specific shows talking about very deep dives into glyphosate and how that increases gut preparation and everything else. I'm curious from your perspective, when you look at eating organic, one of the references you actually Link is the EWG.org, the Environmental Working group. They have a shopper's guide that we're gonna link in the show Notes for everyone, about the Dirty Dozen. Do you have a handful of produce that you always personally purchase organic? And why is that?

You know, it's been fascinating. I now try to buy just about everything other than avocados organic. And even then, if I can get them organic, I do so just running some experiments with patients where we look at their environmental toxins just as they're eating now. Like maybe, you know, most things organic, or at least doing the Dirty dozen organic, but then taking it to where even nuts and seeds and meat are organic. And we see dramatic drops in the amount of pesticides and other toxins in when they are almost exclusively organic, even eating out as much as they can, places that support organic. So, you know, I travel a lot and have teenagers that like to eat out a lot. So we are not perfect. But at home, I've gone to almost everything being organic. But I think the Dirty Dozen is a great place to start. The other thing I would love to mention to you, and I can get you the link for the show notes, is I just got to interview one of the directors from the Ramanazzi Institute in Italy on the research they're doing on glyphosate. It is profound. So they are actually crowdfunding the studies on glyphosate that really need to be done. And what they're looking at is, is there a safe dose of glyphosate that doesn't cause cancer?

Is there a safe dose of glyphosate that does not cause cancer? This is a profound question.

It's like, why do we have the world full of glyphosate Everybody I test has at least some. Why do we have a world full of glyphosate? And we don't have the answer to that. And the answer that the funding, it's not happening. Like, our governments around the world are not funding this research. So if we want it done, we have to fund it ourselves. So they're actually crowdfunding. They're like the leading institute for answering this question for toxins. They've done over 25 toxins over the last 30 years. And they do find that some toxins are. There are safe doses of them. So they're extremely. They are the right people to be doing this research, but they need the funding to do it. So I'm hoping that we can get this word out about this funding being or the studying being done and realize that we as individuals have to help to save future generations. Because the amount of this that's being cranked out into the environment every day and every year is just astounding.

Well, and we know that the ivory towers of control are beginning to show, show some major, major cracks when we look at the paradigm that's existed for, gosh, maybe 100 plus years now between big food, agriculture and pharmaceutical, they all feed. It's a big gross feedback loop. And I say gross because the grossness is that it's making people sick. And so really what we're doing here is we're taking a deep breath and we're taking our health back into our hands. And it makes me clench my fist because my mom currently is dealing with a stage four kidney disease. And I know that part of it was because she didn't have the tools, she didn't have the information that she needed about lowering her toxic score. Who knows, right? There's so many of us that have loved ones that are here on the podcast with us that their lives could be so much longer if they just had the knowledge. And this is the big piece for all of us to just really breathe into.

Yeah. So it's interesting because I can't believe I'm going to say this out in public because this is still kind of some of the leading edge research. But I need to know a little bit more about what's going on with your mom. Mom, I'm so sorry she's dealing with that. But there are some things that might be able to help. There's some stem cell therapies with.

Specifically.

For kidney disease that I'm seeing some tremendous results with. So we can talk about that offline because I'm not quite Ready to talk about it in public. But there's. Yeah, we should definitely chat about that because there may be some things that could tremendously help her and interestingly I've seen that really help my.

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, we will definitely link that. And if anyone wants to connect with you specifically to work with you as a client, they can do that. Correct. Are you still seeing patients one on one?

I am still seeing patients one on one. That's my, I love to, you know, my new patient visits are usually at least two hours so I have a limited capacity to do it. But it's, you know, it's one of my favorite things to really dive deep in with individual and find out this whole mind, body, spirit component of what's going on with them and then learn about their genetics, biochemistry and physiology and find the best way for them to get well.

And you're in Austin, Texas so obviously we're going to link your contact info as well. These show notes Keep growing, Dr. Ann. We're going to have like 50 bullets. But you know what, this is what I wanted and I'm so happy with where we've gone, all the different places that we've explored because at the end of the day, knowing is one thing, thing having the courage to do is another. And I'm curious now that we've gone over all the different aspects of this, if someone could, could drop in with you and just connect with you here. Maybe they even close their eyes. Don't close your eyes if you're driving your car. But you know, if they can really connect with what you're about to say when they're approaching a path like this of healing, what is their heart and mind? Where can they go? How can they connect their heart and their mind so that they can really move towards the healing.

Oh gosh, that's such. Makes me teary eyed the way that you're asking this. So remember that this is a partnership with your physical body. Like it's when you partner with your body and really do listen and provide it with what it needs and not overwhelm it with what's, you know, causing the hurdles. It really is extraordinary. It's got an extraordinary capacity to heal and it really wants to. I really believe in how our bodies are. You know, there's so many backup mechanisms for so many different aspects of how we work and, and just nudging it in the right direction, providing for it. It's going to take care of you.

I really felt that because I know that you have a TED Talk coming up. And I'm curious if what you just said in some way is going to be included in your TED Talk. Could you share with us about the upcoming TED Talk?

I get to talk about teaching your genes how to behave.

Mm, that sounds interesting.

So I know I'm such a nerd. So I've really delved into many of the research articles that have come out in the last few years on how we can influence what our genes do, like what gets turned up, what gets turned down, and how we can best collaborate with our genes. And there were 70 when I just put in epigenetics, there were 71,000 articles. So there's a lot of research out there. But as I was going through this, there are some straightforward things. Like, I talked about the importance of supporting the detox pathways directly. Well, one of the things that's so cool in the research is that those nutrients change our gene expression as well and help us help things to work better. I also love studies like music, musicians, the art of practicing the things that we want to do and the intentions that we're setting for our lives also change our gene expression. So musicians, the genes that influence auditory acuity get up regulated so that their hearing actually improves. So there's like this part. Yeah. So the talk is really about this partnership that we can have with our genes and that they're not set in concrete at all. I mean, there are some things that are harder to maneuver, so things like down syndrome and pulmonary fibrosis, some of those hereditary disorders. But even when we look at them, there's such a spectrum in how those genes get influenced. So you see some people with pulmonary fibrosis that start having problems at very young ages, you know, in their 30s. And then some people make it into their 80s and 90s with very little progression of the disease. So that's really what I think it's a huge motivation is. Yeah, if cancer, if heart disease, dementia, all these things tend to run in your family or even things that don't run in your family, you can have a dramatic impact on the trajectory of your health by learning to collaborate with.

Your genes in the collaboration that we find peace. Because, gosh, I gotta tell you, there was so many years of my life where I had all the information. I was a trainer for 10 years. Years. I helped like 10,000 people. You know, so many hours, like coaching and training. But you know what my missing link was? My missing link was if I'm going towards peace within my body and I'm committed to trusting the Process, like, actually just surrendering to the process. That's what made the biggest difference. And I'd love for you to give us parting guidance here, because the things you've accomplished and the way that you've navigated these thresholds that would have kicked so many people's asses to the ground, it's inspiring. And I feel like the perfect question for you is wellness. You know, all you've gone through and the people that you now serve, where does this come from? What does wellness actually mean to you? How would you define wellness?

That's really beautiful because I think a lot of times the, you know, it feels like we're climbing Mount Everest. You know, it feels unattainable. It feels challenging. But really, all we have to do is this moment and the next moment. Like, we don't have to climb Mount Everest today. Just do what you can today, because what you do today makes a tremendous difference in tomorrow.

Dr. Anne Shippey, md.com Thank you for coming on the show. We covered so much ground. Is there anything you think we missed when we look at navigating the mold toxicity and the mold in the home, in the apartment?

That's. And thank you so much for having me. I love this conversation. It's such a beautiful way to put all these pieces of the puzzle together. So thank you for that. And I guess one of the biggest things that I think also happens is, you know, being willing to ask for help, like finding another person that's on the same kind of journey with you that really wants to be in partnership with their body and their genes and implement those changes today. Find somebody to buddy up with that, you know, you're going to have the hard days where, you know, you want to sit down and eat the chocolate cake or not exercise or you got your mold test back and you're overwhelmed with, okay, what do I do next? So find somebody that you feel like you can really talk to that's going to support you, because there will be people who don't. They'll be like, oh, I don't believe in that mold stuff, or, oh, it doesn't matter what you eat today. You know, just, you know, let's go have pizza and ice cream. Surround yourself with the people that are. That are gonna support you and what your goals are and what your priorities are.

Spoken like true wisdom from elder. And when I say elder, I mean respectfully, someone who's been through many thresholds that can teach younger people. So thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for what you do. In the world and we're gonna be talking about you so much. For more everyone go to wellnessforce.com group. When we come out with podcasts, we do a deeper dive into our guest and there's a lot to explore with Dr. Ann Shippey. Dr. Anne, thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me. That was so much fun.

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