321 Sally Fallon Morell & Hilda Labrada Gore: Living In A Food Desert & Concrete Jungle

You know, I think if you go to the supermarket and take a box of cereal, like Captain Kicks or something, and hold it in front of you and see what your body does. Does your body go forward or does it go back? If it goes back, you know that that's not good for you. There's ways of asking your body, you know, is this good?

For me, it's actually principle number one to me, which is a great place to start for people who might get overwhelmed and think, where do I start? It's no refined or denatured foods Dr. Price found when he traveled the world. He found isolated traditional indigenous people groups, and they were all eating food as our grandparents would recognize it or our great grandparents would recognize it as food. So, like meat and wild fruits and honey. And we just need to look for more whole, real foods and get re familiar with the kitchen and with cooking because it's nourishing on a deep level, not just because you have these really good ingredients and you know what you're going to do with them, but because you're inserting time and energy and love to nourish your family.

That's Sally Fallon Morrell and Hilda LaBrada Gore. And this is episode 321 of Wellness Force Radio. Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life well.

You can have the same brain states as someone who's done an hour of meditation every day for 40 years.

There's a lot of losses that we go through. So the ability to be able to cope with those losses is very important.

To build skill in it, because loss will happen. You know, you have to have spiritual.

Courage to really grow spiritually. If you really want to take guidance.

From your soul, you have to be.

Ready to realize that many of the things that you're asking for guidance on, your ego has some kind of an addiction to or an investment in.

In this episode, we're exploring food and ways of living for wellness. If you live in a food desert or a concrete jungle, you know what I mean? All you people listening in New York right now, or if you guys are in a big metropolis, the odds are not necessarily stacked in your favor. It is up to you to take loving responsibility to stack those odds in your favor. And today on the podcast, we're talking with two powerhouse women from the Weston A. Price Foundation, Sally Fallon Morel and Hilda Labrada Gore. Sally Fallon Morel is the author of Nourishing Traditions. You might have seen her work in the paleo community over the past decade. Plus, these ladies came On a Facebook Live. By the way, if you're not following us on Facebook, go to Facebook right now. Type in Wellness Force. Follow us Wellness Force on Facebook. We have a ton of fun lives coming this year in 2020. This podcast was very special. You know, these ladies, they're spiritual, they're practical. They're also pragmatic. They give real solutions in this podcast, this Facebook Live, where if you do live in a food desert or if you do live in a city where it's concrete jungle and you kind of feel like your. Your walls are caving in, they'll give you physical and nutritional tools that you can actually take and apply into your life. I love these ladies for two separate reasons. First of all, they have a they're fun. You're gonna feel it in their voice. But secondly, they have the academic and they have the experience to actually speak from that pedestal of knowing. Hilda and Sally both have been in the wellness space for decades. They've been traveling. Specifically, Hilda has been traveling across the world giving lectures, understanding why Weston A. Price's book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration was such a godsend. A man way before his time. Whether you're paleo or keto or anything else, this podcast is gonna bring you the information you need. Exactly where. If you've been looking for a better solution for organic superfoods and if you haven't heard our episode with Dr. Jud Brewer where I talked about the mission of healing mental health and really being a part of this movement where we can all heal mental and physical health through breathwork, organic superfoods, and wellness intelligence. Go listen to the podcast with Dr. Jud Brewer. It's episode number 319. I talk about what we stand for, what we believe that this growing mental health crisis, what it actually really represents is an opportunity for humanity to come together and to heal. And this starts with our food and water and our air that we breathe. These get to be natural, organic, and free from pesticides and pollution. Join the Wellness Force movement this year to help end the mental health crisis and be a part of humanity coming together to heal, join the movement@wellnessforce.com team. You can get right to my inbox directly. I want to talk with you. If you've been looking for financial, economic support for your life, if you've been looking for emotional and physical intelligence, much deeper you can get on the podcast jointhemovementwellnessforce.com team. So a little bit more about our guest today. Sally Fallon Morrell is the leading spokesperson for a return to nutrient dense diets, including raw milk, animal fats, organ meats, bone broths, and lacto fermented foods that might have caused some triggers in a few people. She's the founding president of the Weston A. Price foundation and the founder of a campaign for real milk. She's also the president of New Trends Publishing, which publishes books on diet and health, including the nourishing Trad series Holistic. Hilda is from Holistichilda.com she has the desire for us to live Our best life 100% at any age and stage. Everything she learns and incorporates into her own life, she brings to us. She is a integrated nutrition health coach certified by the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and she's a fitness professional certified by the American Council on Exercise. She's a very educated woman. But what I think you're really going to connect with her on today's podcast is the fact that she believes in humanity. She believes in human connection. Both of these ladies, Sally and Hilda, are going to give you valuable gems from their decades of experience in the wellness industry. And if you want to learn more about them, go to wellnessforce.com 321. Make sure you give them a shout out on social media. This was an incredible podcast. I know you're going to love it. You can leave comments on the Facebook page if you enjoy this podcast. Do me a quick favor, please go over to itunes. Leave us a five star review. When you do that, that 60 to 90 seconds of your time, that little token of your time, it means so much to the algorithm gods, the itunes gods that keep the bread and circus running, we're actually bringing the light to the circus. Some of the other shows out there, I'm not going to name names. Some of the other shows out there are built for distraction. They're weapons of mass distraction. This show is bringing the light. If you connect with that light, if you feel this, if you love the information we bring to you, do us a favor. Please support this movement for Wellness Force. Go over to wellnessforce.com review or just simply go to itunes and leave us a five star review. You are so appreciated. Thank you so much. Now let's drop in with the dynamic duo from Facebook on our Wellness Force page, Hilda labrada Gore and Sally Fallon Morrell from the Weston A. Price Foundation. There we go. We're live. Okay, this is Josh Trent from Wellness Force and I am here with two incredibly powerhouse ladies from the Weston A. Price Foundation, Sally Fallon Morrell and Hilda Labrada Gore. Today we're talking about 10 ways that we can all practically live our life well. If we're in a concrete jungle, if we're in a food desert, if we're in a place where maybe eating from an ancestral lens is more challenging. Ladies, thank you for being on this special podcast we're doing here on Facebook. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you so much. And actually, I often say what we're doing is it's great if you're a farmer, if you have a cow or whatever, but we're for the single mom living in an apartment in the Bronx. Yeah. That's where we have to make sure that what we're suggesting is available to everyone.

Yeah. It can't be out of reach. So thanks for having us on, Josh, because this is exactly what we want to do, is reach out to people.

You're welcome. And this is special to me because, you know, there's certain things from my upbringing. And by the way, if you're watching this live with us, let us know where you're watching from. If you're watching this on a replay, do the same thing. We're going to go through all the comments because this show, this podcast, is about connection and it's about pract. Ways that we can live better, that we can live well. Which we're going to learn about what the Weston A. Price foundation is. We're going to talk about Sally's work, we're going to talk about Hilda's work. But at the core of this whole thing, at the core of this whole conversation, we're trying to reach the people that need the most support. And in my opinion, ladies, I don't know how you feel about this. It is the moms. I can think back to the 80s and early 90s when I was being raised by a single mom on welfare. Welfare meaning kick cereal, processed food and blocks of cheese. No produce, no meats, nothing like that. Parents are always doing the best they can, yet they're always doing the best they can with the knowledge and the resources that they have. So, Hilda or Sally, can one of you paint a picture of really where we are right now? If somebody's living in a food desert, what is their biggest challenge to living ancestrally?

Well, the biggest challenge, I think, is that they're eating the wrong fats and oils. Everything in the processed food is industrial fats and oils, industrial oils which are truly toxic. This is the most toxic thing in the food system supply. So the number one thing I always recommend, and it is doable, is to switch to butter. Use butter instead of the margarines and the spreads cook with butter or cook with another animal fat like bacon fat or lard. These are truly healthy fats. They're nutrient dense. They contain a lot of important vitamins, they are full of minerals, and they have special fats in them that make you feel good, that make you feel happy, that help your brain work, that help with digestion. They give you beautiful skin, natural. None of this is in the industrial fats and oils. And so that's, number one, switch to butter. Now, that may cost you a little bit more, but the second one won't cost you anymore. And it makes a huge difference in your health, and that is to make your own salad dressing. So buy the oil and vinegar. Learn to make a simple salad dressing with oil, vinegar and mustard. You actually save money doing this. It's less expensive than the prepared bottle dressings. And these bottle dressings are such garbage. They are so bad for you. Not just the bad fats and oils, but all of the additives and artificial flavors and so forth.

Let me pause you there. So those two just going right to the fat. I love this. Going right to the healthy fats, because there's. There is a lot of confusion out there about what is a healthy fat and what is not. Can you break that down a little bit more? Because I think some people get confused with PUFAs and the saturated fats and just tell us a little bit more about the fats.

Well, one thing you do need to know, saturated fats are not bad. They're absolutely essential for health. And if you don't eat enough saturated fat, your body has a backup plan, which is to make saturated fats out of carbohydrates. If you're avoiding saturated fats, you're going to crave carbohydrates because you need those to make saturated fat for your cells to work for everything in your body to work. The problem with the carbohydrates is they don't have all these other good things in them that you get from the animal fats, like vitamin A, which fights infection, or vitamin D, which, the happy vitamin, or vitamin K, which prevents tooth decay. I mean, all of these good things are in butter and lard and bacon fat and all the good animal fats that our ancestors ate.

Yeah, okay. And I think for, for those just tuning in right now and, and for those just really understanding, like, what this really is when we talk about healthy fat, there was some controversy. I think it was in the 70s or 80s with Ancel keys, and there was a lot of misinformation about sugar and fat. And then Time magazine came out with a cover of butter. Like this beautiful, like, smooth wheel of butter. And it said, we were wrong. Sorry about that, guys. It's not actually the fat that's hurting you the most. It's the sugars. It's the processed carbohydrates. Can you, for people that don't know, can you just go deeply into that in a few moments of what that actually was with the Ancel Keys?

Well, Ancel Keys was getting paid by the sugar industry to deflect attention away from the sugar, which was causing all the problems, and to blame the animal fats instead. And he didn't even blame the vegetable oils because he was getting money from them, too. So you have to understand that refined carbs and the industrial seed oils. So that's the corn, the soy, the canola, all these oils are the basis of processed food. They're really cheap ingredients, and they're extremely harmful, especially to growing children.

Yeah. So everything that we kind of knew about food, it seems like it changes every five to ten years or so. What do you know to be true about food now that maybe in the beginning, before you wrote Nourishing Traditions, has it changed? Has your truth about food and about fats changed, or has it remained the same?

Well, it certainly has. I mean, I changed my diet a lot while I was writing Nourishing Traditions because I kept discovering things. I already was a big butter eater. I understood almost instinctively that we needed eggs and meats and cream and butter and cheese, and I raised my kids that way, and they were very healthy. But in writing Nourishing Traditions, I learned about some of these finer points, such as the importance of fermented foods in the diet, the importance of broth, bone broth, the importance of properly preparing our grains. And that was what made the biggest change in my own health, because I was eating a lot of rough granola and foods that are extremely hard to digest, and I was spending a lot of time in bed just with a tummy ache because these foods were not good for me. And when I learned that in all traditional cultures, the grains are properly prepared to make them more digestible, it was like, up and away. My health improved remarkably. So what does that mean? That means no rough grains, no breakfast cereals, which, by the way, are very expensive. No granola, no granola bars, nothing like this. No rough whole grain products. But you soak your oats overnight in slightly acidic warm water and then cook them, and you have this delicious, easily digested oatmeal you do sourdough bread. Sourdough is a kind of fermentation process. So all of these things, I mean, I always ask at my talks how many people have digestive problems with grains. And half the hands go up and that shouldn't be. Grains are the staff of life, and you can include them in your diet if you prepare them properly.

You're kind of freaking people out, I'm sure, that are in the paleo crowd or people that are maybe in the keto crowd, because it just seems like there are so many opposing forces out there that are trying to make money off of people not knowing the correct knowledge. And I gotta say, like, if we just go to how we were brought into the world and we look back at thousands of years of traditions when it comes to eating and being in a tribe, there are just certain common threads that connect us all. And there is no food that are demons.

Yeah. And we like to say that we call this the wise traditions diet. There's no renunciation on our diet. There's no leaving out major food groups. This diet includes grains, fats, salt, dairy. It includes dairy, raw dairy, which is the easy dairy to digest. It even includes sweets. You can have some sweet things, naturally sweetened things. So we say there's no major food group left out, but you need to choose wisely and prepare carefully.

Yeah, well, we talked about butter, we talked about saturated fat. We'll link in the show notes more information about Ancel Keys. I want to shift before we go more into the food aspect because obviously, you know, food is medicine. So if we're living in a food desert, if we're living in a concrete jungle, I guess one of the most really challenging things is how do we get the right medicine? You know, And Hilda, I know that you've traveled across the world. I think you've been in Kenya, right, doing talks on nutrition and lots of other places. How do you begin this conversation with people that maybe have a negative mindset around sourcing food, where they say, oh, you don't understand. I live in a place in middle America. I live in a city. I can't get these healthy foods that doesn't exist for me. Where do you direct the conversation from there?

Yeah, when you were speaking earlier, I was thinking about how food pantries and food banks that want to give food to people who are in tight economic situations. Mostly they have non perishable goods. And so what does that mean? It's a lot of pasta, it's a lot of processed food. It's the opposite of what we want them to have. We want them to have real food. So I would say it is challenging. And yet I see promise with groups like SNAP that give the dollars, so to speak, to people who are disadvantaged economically that they can spend them at the farmer's market. There's always a way. And I'm so grateful for the foundation because there are chapter leaders all around the world, actually, who will help you find sources of real food. If you're like, I don't know where to go, they will help connect you with people, with local farmers, with CSA groups, you know, with all kinds of folks that can help provide food. And as Sally has hastened to mention before, people can actually eat this way on a budget because it's cheaper to buy a whole chicken and have it for several meals than it is to go to Popeyes and get this chicken that's fried in a rancid oil. So there are ways to do it, but you have to make it a prior. It has to matter to you. And I'm very saddened because I live in a city, and so I see people who are just grabbing the fast food or what's convenient, not knowing how expensive it is for their health. In other words, it's cheap in the short term financially, but it's expensive in the long term.

Oh, well, actually, I'm not even sure it's short term.

Yeah, I was just going to say. Yeah. Sally, before you. Before you go forward, I'll just ask you this one question. When we look at the way that people are actually going to the grocery store, doesn't it have to transform in their mind before they even walk into the store? It's not like once they get in the store, they're automatically all of a sudden gonna make better decisions. Like, they have to be guided in a certain way.

And I'm also thinking back, Josh, to a young woman I met in Kenya who said to me, after she heard me talk about these wise traditions, principles, she's like, you know what I think to my grandmother? I was raised in the village, and we were outside, we were growing our own produce. We were working, you know, we were physically active, getting our hands dirty. And I compare that life and how we ate and lived to my life now in the city because she was a professional, and she's like, now I'm grabbing the fast food and I'm drinking soda. And she was, like, nearly diabetic, her doctor told her. And so she realized the contrast, it wasn't just the food, as you were alluding to. Earlier, Josh. It also was with the whole lifestyle. So we definitely have to flip a switch and somehow revisit these traditions that are not that far off for us if we just open our eyes.

I love the word tradition. Let's talk about this for people that don't know Weston A. Price Foundation. Sally, this is a huge part of your life. Nourishing Traditions and Weston A. Price. I think some people, especially in the Paleo community, they'll put them together as almost the same messaging, but they're a little bit different in some ways. Or are they the same? Can you share with us? You know, how you even wrote Nourishing Traditions? Then also, what is Weston A. Price? How did that even come to be?

Okay, so I wrote Nourishing Traditions. Excuse me. To put Dr. Price's work into a form that was accessible to the average person, because his book is quite a book to wade through. So I thought, well, let's have a book that puts it into sound bites and that has lots of good recipes. And that was Nourishing Traditions. So once Nourishing Traditions was published, we thought, well, we need more than just one book. I'm not just trying to promote my own book, but we want to put these same principles into a foundation that can teach these to a much wider audience. We like to use different media. So, for example, Hilda has this wonderful, very popular podcast on the Wise Traditions diet. And then we have a journal for people who like to read more into the science. And we have a lot of teaching materials, videos, all kinds of things. We want to put this message in as many possible formats so everyone can access it.

I love this. And for people that don't know nutrition and physical degeneration, it was one of the first books that I ever read when I started following the lines of Paul Cech and even some of the early Paleo leaders like Rob Wolf. And it blew me away, because these people were eating natural whole foods. They were eating grains, they were eating dairy, they were having organ meats. They were doing crazy things. It almost felt like it was insanity.

They were eating a lot of fat.

They were eating a lot of fat. I came from this world of personal training where it was like 24 Hour Fitness. Low fat, low carbohydrate, tons of protein. And I felt so gross all day long, and clients weren't getting results. And it led me down this path of truth. And again, for people that are just tuning in, this is a conversation about ways to live in food deserts and in concrete jungles, ancestrally. Ancestrally meaning how we were designed, how we actually were made, to be here on planet Earth. And I think about this concept of tradition. You know, there's a lot of traditions out there. Even if you look at the patriarchy and some of the ways that women were treated in the past, they weren't great traditions. Some traditions are meant to be broken. But then there are. There are traditions when it comes to being wise, you know, wise traditions. What are the wise traditions that you think, no matter what time we're looking at in human evolution, what are the core. What are the core wise traditions when it comes to food, when it comes to living in a culture that actually serve us, that don't ever need to be changed?

Well, I think number one is the nutrient dense fats and organ meats that they always ate. And it wasn't a high protein diet, as you say. It's moderate protein, but a lot of good fats. I think that's one. We find that everywhere in traditional cultures. Number two is proper preparation of foods that might be difficult to digest, starting with the grains. So that's there everywhere. Number three, I think would be the fermented foods. Fermented foods are in every traditional culture in the world. Very easy. Fermented food is sauerkraut. And you don't have to make sauerkraut. You can buy it now. Good raw sauerkraut is available even in your health food store. So these just add sauerkraut to your diet every day. I had a woman come to me who had suffered from irritable bowel syndrome for 20 years and had tried everything short of surgery. She said two weeks in, having sauerkraut, a little bit of sauerkraut with every meal, and she was cured. She had no more symptoms. So eating the fermented foods like sauerkraut perfectly accords with our modern scientific knowledge, the new paradigm of having healthy bacteria in our gut. Salt is very important. All traditional cultures had salt, went to a lot of trouble to get the salt, and we recommend unrefined salt. So you're getting not only sodium chloride, but magnesium and trace minerals. But we do need salt, and I think that's good news. Our food tastes better with salt. Right? You don't have to forego the salt.

Yeah. Salt has been so demonized for really no reason at all other than just there's marketing tactics out there. This is why I'm so happy. Honestly, it means a lot to me that we're having this conversation, because one thing that our Wellness Force community always prides Itself on is just getting to the truth as quickly as possible. And if you look at human evolution, human evolution, we had great health up until 1964 or so when the agricultural revolution shifted. Earl Butts introduced mono crops and it really changed things. And I think where we are now is people are so aware, people are so waking up to the truth that there's this dynamic economic paradigm with so many low fat foods, so many foods out there that actually hurt people, but people are trained to eat them. So this is like a new revolution for a way of eating.

I was gonna say. And even though science backs this now, like you said, Time magazine published something saying we were wrong. Butter is better. Like people are getting it. It's still not trickling out to the public, I think, because these companies have started promoting these low fat things and they have it all in their warehouses. They don't know what to do with it, so they keep pushing it to the public. So it's taking a while for it to translate. And so I was gonna say the wise tradition we really should cling to. It's actually principle number one to me, which is a great place to start for people who might get overwhelmed and think, where do I start? It's no refined or denatured foods Dr. Price found when he traveled the world looking for kind of the healthiest people. He found isolated, traditional indigenous people groups. And they were all eating food as our grandparents would recognize it or our great grandparents would recognize it as food. So, like meat and wild fruits and honey and milk. And so it was all something that didn't have a long ingredient list, you know what I mean? So I would say for people living in the city, actually I live in the city, so I know what this is like. We just need to look for more whole, real foods and get re familiar with the kitchen and with cooking because it's nourishing on a deep level. Not just because you have these really good ingredients and you know what you're going to do with them, but because you're inserting time and energy and love to nourish your family. And I'm telling you, I used to be the lady throwing fish sticks and baby carrots at my kids. I was like, okay, there's something good in the fish and here's some carrots. But now I'm like, bring on the fats, bring on the nutrient density, which also matters that we look for the biggest bang for our buck. I feel like in the US we're over, you know, we're overeating and we're undernourished, and it's a shame. And this is a problem actually happening with people at all economic levels. They're overfed and undernourished.

And one food that you don't actually have to cook that we're big advocates for is raw milk, raw dairy products. And that brings. Oh, you know what? But we have shown, we have a second website, realmilk.com and we have shown that these products are very safe and they can make a huge, huge difference in the health of your family if you only make one change, switch to raw milk. And we've had such wonderful feedback on my children that behave better. You know, they're not oversleeping, they're not having tantrums, sleep better at night. Their allergies went away. We have a number of studies out of Europe now showing that raw milk is a powerful protection against allergies, asthma and eczema. Now you have a child with asthma that's very expensive. You've got your inhalers and your hospital visits and all this. So the raw milk is going to cost you more than pasteurized milk. But you won't be buying those inhalers anymore. So our local chapters can help you find raw milk. Very often it's delivered. We have raw milk being delivered into New York City, into Brooklyn, into the Bronx, into the big cities. So it's there. It's there and we can help you find it.

This is powerful. Westonapricefoundation.org we'll link this in the show notes. There's a bunch of questions. We're going to get to these questions, but I want to shift a little bit from food, because if we're looking at an ancestral lens, it's how we eat, it's how we move, it's how we love and care for one another, it's how we connect. It's what we're doing right now. Right. All these things are equally important. So when we look at living in a City, there's 5G, there's toxins that are emitting from furniture and buildings. I mean, it makes me feel upset to the point where I must breathe, I must calm down, because there's so many things stacked against people in cities that they're not aware of. Hilda, can you share with us maybe the top one or two things to mitigate some of this EMF exposure and some of this toxic buildup that's happening in cities? And then we'll go right back to the food.

Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I would say is mitigate your exposure in your own home. In other words, a lot of us have WI fi routers in our homes, right? So you can either eliminate that and go with landlines where you actually plug something into your computer, and that way you're eliminating the waves in your own home. Also, at the very least, you can add a timer to your router so that it goes off at night. This is what I do because I've interviewed so many experts on this Wise Traditions podcast who are like, you're exactly right, Josh. These waves are affecting us on a level that is imperceptible at first, but eventually can make us sick and compromise our mitochondrial.

Just like any disease. Any disease comes on slowly. It's not like you get sick all of a sudden. It comes on without us even knowing it. It's the same thing with 5G.

Absolutely. So what we need to do is be aware and try to control what we can in our own home environment. So we turn off our WI fi router at night. If not, you know, as long as possible. And we also have some cords that we can use it without the WI fi. We can get our network connection without that. And then the other thing is get outside and get grounded. Because nature is really pivotal to our health. We can get a negative electromagnetic charge from the earth. It's like free antioxidants, like free blueberries, if you want to think of it that way, from the Earth. That can benefit our bodies and help counteract kind of the creation of free radicals in our body, which are cancer causing. So what you want to do is avoid these non native electromagnetic frequencies and get in touch with nature. So this is why they actually have done studies that the people who live in cities closest to parks are healthier than the people that live in more of, as you described it, a concrete jungle. So what I do every day is I get out in the park every single morning. Like this is a non negotiable for me. I'm getting morning sunlight, which is another aspect of building my mitochondrial health and syncing my circadian rhythm with the earth. But it's also a way of getting in touch with nature, lowering my, lowering my cortisol levels, you know. And so I really recommend that people manage what they can within their home and then get outside as much as possible to encounter nature, because that's an important part of the wellness.

Oh, I love this. Nature holds the keys. Nature holds all the keys for us, right? It is the ultimate teacher. You know, Mother Gaia, father, son, we can learn so much from just Everything that worked for our ancestors. I think the challenge that we're facing now is that there's so much information that people look to Weston A Price nourishing traditions for just the truth. There's a lot of comments coming up right now about raw dairy, so let's shift a little bit. We're talking about the ways to live ancestrally in a city that might be a concrete jungle or a food desert. We can all do this. Men and women, you guys, the crew, listening. Like, we can do this. It just takes commitment. And when people are looking at digesting grains or dairy, there's a specific question about digestion here for somebody that's dealing with Crohn's, Sally. So right here, the Crohn's for actually digesting. How does someone with Crohn's digest this type of food? How does that actually happen for someone with Crohn's and grains? How is that possible?

It is possible, but first you have to step back. You need to get off the grains, any food that is giving you a digestive problem. And then we recommend what's called the GAPS diet, which is a very simple diet, very easy to digest with lots and lots of bone broth, because the bone broth contains glycine that can heal the digestive tract. So you need to get off the grains. And then once you are feeling better and you don't have any symptoms of these digestive disorders, you can gradually add the grains back in. And I say very gradually and properly prepared and always with a lot of good fats with those grains. I mean, the very worst thing for your gut is a bran muffin without any butter on it, because.

How so? Why?

Well, a bran muffin is extremely hard to digest. I mean, that bran is like screws in your digestive tract.

Oh, that's a crazy visual, Sally.

But if you have a sourdough, let's say beautiful, genuine sourdough slice of bread, and you put enough butter on it to see teeth marks in the butter, you'll digest that bread, those grains, and they'll be delicious for you.

What's going on there? Why is the combination of the healthy fats from the butter and the grains, Is it more of just like an abrasion that's being taken care of, or is it less actually irritating because of the fat?

But it's much more complicated than that. First of all, it's the vitamins in the butter, the vitamin A, the vitamin D, and it's also something called arachidonic acid, which is exclusively found in animal fats, which is very important for digestive health and for having good cell to cell tight cell to cell junctures for digestive health. Don't want to get too technical or too complicated.

Sure, basically. But trust me, if you're eating the carbohydrates, if you're eating the things that are, you know, they're soluble and insoluble fiber and I think people forget, you know, there is a load on the body, there is a physiological load when we have to digest things that are hard, that are fibrous. You know, there are many people that, whether they're in gaps or whatever it is, that they can't eat certain foods just because of the shape and the texture and the hardness of these foods. Right.

Well, another thing that people don't realize, and we were talking about it today, most processed foods contain something called modified food starch. Starch itself is a little bit of a strain on the digestion. But when you modify the food starch, what you do is create more connections in the starch. Every time you're doing that, you're making something much harder to digest. There's a real challenge to the digestion. If you're eating a lot of process processed foods, they all have modified food starch in them.

This podcast is brought to you by our friends at Cured Nutrition, creators of the organically farmed full spectrum hemp. If you're on the email news list, you know that I just recently did an experiment where I used my oura ring. I tracked my nighttime CBD sublingual from Cured and the data was explosive. I mean, we're talking 20% increase of deep sleep over 10% with my restlessness improvement. There is truth to the CBD equation. If you've been struggling with sleep, give CBD. Specifically organic full spectrum CBD from our partners, our friends over at Cured. Give this a test drive. It works for me. I know it can work for you. We're both humans, we both breathe air and we both deserve quality sleep. Go to wellnessforce.com cured use the code wellnessforce. You get 15% off your sleep inducing, beautiful, restful CBD supplement. I say beautiful because it makes you wake up beautiful. There is something powerful about these plants. I'll tell you, these hemp plants get some better sleep tonight with this organically farmed CBD WellnessForce.com cured. Use the code WellnessForce to get 15% off your entire order. Yes. Okay, well, let's talk a little bit more about living in the city. Most people watching this right now, they probably live in a city, unless you're out in the country. And then, you know, we lovingly envy you if you're living on a farm and you can grow all your own food. But that's a small percentage of America. That's a small percentage of people. And when it comes to eating the raw milk, I think there's a lot of fear around raw milk because there's scare tactics out there. And there's been a lot of stories where I believe even the FDA raided raw milk factories in the past. I mean, we're talking about the ivory towers here. The food system that has existed for so long. The powers that be are seeing the rapid change. They're probably fearful of a Weston A. Price, they're probably fearful of the Paleo movement, and they're definitely fearful of what we're talking about here. But the truth is undefeated. When it comes to raw dairy, there is multiple reports stating that it does not cause inflammation. It is healthy for people. But I want to play devil's advocate, Sally, because I have lactose intolerance, and when I eat dairy products, it causes gas and bloating. For someone like me, or just for people in general that are curious about raw dairy, how do people in food deserts or in these concrete jungles in the cities, how do they begin to introduce the raw dairy and then what can they expect along that path?

Well, I always say introduce raw dairy slowly. We did a survey of people diagnosed with lactose intolerance, like yourself, and we found that 82% could tolerate raw dairy without any problem whatsoever. So it really isn't lactose intolerance, it's pasteurization intolerance. But. So you may be one of those 18% that just really is lactose intolerant. But for most people, we say start slowly. Start with just a couple tablespoons of raw milk at room temperature and build up gradually from there. The worst thing you can do is after never having had dairy for a long time or raw dairy, drink a great big glass of cold milk.

Ooh, that would be an instant accident. Leave that to the imagination.

Yes, but we still. I just want to throw out one statistic for you, which may be very surprising. The CDC has kept reports of illness and deaths from foods since the 1960s. And since the 1960s, there have been no reports, published reports of death from raw milk. 00. There have been something like 70 or 80 from pasteurized milk. So raw milk is an extremely safe food, even though it's mostly not regulated. And I can say with confidence that this idea that raw milk is dangerous is based on 40 year old science. A lot has changed since then. First of all, we have a whole new paradigm about digestion and gut health and good microbes and so forth, and that we don't want sterile food like pasteurized milk. But also we have learned something so much about what's in milk. All these factors that, for example, create a healthy gut wall, that create the immune system that help you absorb all the vitamins and minerals in the milk. In raw milk, you absorb 100% of all the good things in the milk. No other foods like that. All of these components are destroyed by pasteurization and the proteins in milk are warped and distorted. So your body has to mount an immune response. And this is why milk has become the number one allergy in this country, because you cannot digest pasteurized milk, especially ultra pasteurized milk.

It's like night and day, you know what I mean? A live product and a dead product. And we were so afraid of the bacteria, the pathogens that might be in raw milk that we ended up killing everything. It's like you knocked down your whole house because there was in it. When actually raw milk has pathogen fighting bacteria that can fight anything bad in there, you know. So I just wanted to interject another little story. When I was in Kenya, I interviewed a man who was over 100 years old, and I wanted to ask him about what he ate and how he lived. And he said, we were so healthy when we were younger, we would just play outside and we didn't get sick. And he said if we felt a shiver coming on, we would drink milk from the cow. And he demonstrated like drinking straight from the cow's teeth. Like, it was amazing. I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And so. But he's like, now my grandchildren, they tell me they have to wear a coat because they're going to get sick. But he's like, we didn't get sick. So we actually went over there. I went over there representing the Weston Price foundation because a Maasai warrior contacted the foundation and he said, please send someone over. We're all getting sick. He said, I have diabetes, my wife has asthma. Because the displacing foods of modern commerce, as Dr. Price called them, had started to come into their community where they could get sick. Sodas, where they could get chai tea and white bread, and their health was declining. And after I visited, I went back the next year and the community had started to turn around. And this is another piece of health I wanted to mention today. About a hack for living ancestrally in the city is find a community, find connection with other people who are like minded and you will, you know, thrive. Because nobody wants to live all alone and there are apartment or even out in the country. Like we all need each other, right? So it was beautiful to me to hear this man's story, but also to meet his community of people who decided to pull together in the right direction. It was a beautiful thing.

That's so powerful. You know what came up for me when you were sharing about? Well, we wanted to get rid of the bad things, so we just got rid of everything. This is truly the metaphor of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Literally. I mean, you know people, people that, that don't believe in dairy, they might say, oh, you know, milk is only for baby cows. Milk is only for baby cows. Then how do you see all the people in Sweden eating the cheeses and the sourdough breads and all across the world that have perfect digestion, perfect gut health and are super energy and they have lots of energy and lots of vitality. I think we can learn so much if we do connect with the community. Hilda, like you were saying, how does the community aspect play into this? Let's go into that because we've given people some strategies about the food. We understand mitigating with sunlight and EMF in the cities, but when it comes to connection, what is it you think? Ladies, this is a popcorn question. What is it that makes people stop from reaching out to the community? What is it that creates fear, specifically in parents or maybe a mom at home that is scared of reaching out and saying, I have something going on and I'd like support. What is it in the psyche that creates that?

Well, I think one thing is hard to find like minded people. They think you're crazy. Even in your own family, most people are not going to be with you. We can't have Cheetos. So this is why we have our local chapter system. Many of these local chapters have meetings, they have chat groups, Yahoo groups or Facebook groups or whatever, or they have real meetings. And through these chapter leader activities you can find your community, you can find the like minded people. Even if you're living in a concrete jungle, they're there, Believe me, they're there. But we want to make sure that you can get in touch with those people.

Yeah. Hilda, have you seen this too in your travels?

Yeah, I was just thinking about this wonderful aboriginal woman I met, Suzanne Thompson, who took me onto her property at Gracevale Station outside of Barcaldin in Australia, and she called herself the Ancestral Whisperer because she had to do some deep listening. And I know people who follow Wellness Force Radio will understand this. Like, she had to do some kind of contemplation and meditation and awareness to even figure out who she was, because she grew up wanting to be a hairstylist. She wasn't really thinking about ancestral living and somehow started to cultivate this. And so I think it kind of starts with the individual in that you need to open your eyes to what you're being sold, literally what you're being sold through your TV and your devices and all the things around you, and then open your eyes and your ears to who you really are, your identity. Because I think if we can rediscover our roots, that will help us get in touch with our wise traditions. Like, my mom's from Mexico, my dad's from Cuba, But I lived in a very, I don't know, regular, homogeneous, you know, suburban neighborhood when I was growing up. And I thought I was white, basically, I'm gonna be honest with you. And it took me some time to reconnect with my own ancestors and my own identity. And there's a lot of richness there, not just in terms of food, but in terms of, you know, music and connection and community. And so I feel like it helps to just kind of listen and grow in your own awareness of who you are, and that will help you find your community as well.

I love this. I love this so much, James. Thank you for watching, James. My brother is here. And it's interesting. Like, we think that our family and our friends know the things that we do. But sometimes it's so easy when we're in the health bubble, you know, talking with influencers, going to conferences, we're hearing the same information over and over again. But I will never forget this. I was at a Brendon Burchard conference, and he said, you know, sometimes you can hear a message 50 times, and on the 51st time, something clicks. And if everyone watching could just get one thing from this, it's, can you take a deep breath and can you access your inner knowing where you know how ancestors lived? You know, what feels good? You know, this. We. We all have an inner understanding, an inner guidance system that allows us to connect with what is true. And I think what really, you and I and what the three of us are doing is we're just talking about things that we already know. That's why it feels so good when they're activated inside of us. What Are some other things that feel good that we can just return to as men and women living in tribes, because we're still in tribes. I don't care if we're in a city or in a park. What are some other things that we can connect to that access, that inner knowing that make us feel good?

You know, I think if you go to the supermarket and take a box of cereal, like Captain Kicks or something, and hold it in front of you, just hold it here and see what your body does. Does your body go forward or does it go back? If it goes back, you know that that's not good for you. I guarantee you it will go back. So then if you take the can of oatmeal and hold it there, it's. You're going to go forward. So there's ways of asking your body, is this good?

For me, that's almost like an advanced muscle testing. The science that so many leaders in this wellness and health community talk about is muscle testing is real. It's not pseudoscience. When we hold onto something, it has a vibration.

Embarrassing to do that in the store, but if you just notice, no one.

Will know we have a drunk lady on aisle six holding Captain Crunch. What are some other ways then, when we access this inner knowing from an ancestral lens, what are the other ways of being in a city that we can do for people that might be feeling the excitement watching this or listening? What are other things, Hilda, that we can do that reconnect us to that inner knowing?

I think to reconnect to inner knowing, we need to disconnect from our devices. I get so saddened when I go out to eat or I'm even just in the park and I see a baby with an iPad and I'm thinking, what are we doing? We're teaching them to just be entertained, to consume. We're not letting them even have a moment to look at the bird on the tree branch, you know, so really, to reconnect, we have to get quiet and we have to disconnect from all of the messages that are coming to us from outside.

Let's let that land for a moment. We're all watching this. Being here on devices, there is ways that we can use them mindfully. But you're right. When I see people at dinner, let's just talk about this for a moment. And they're just faces down and they're on their phones and they're not connecting with one another. It's one thing if you get a text and you want to answer it, but do you see this? Do you see this in our society? People watching right now. Share this if you know what we're talking about. Technology is this double edged sword. We just had Kevin Kelly on the podcast, it came out yesterday. He's the founder of Wired magazine. We talked about how technology can actually build self love, what technology can teach us about love. And he said that it's not necessarily the technology that's harming us, it's the way in which we're being mindless about using it.

Yeah, we all love the Internet. There's no question we're here connecting.

Yeah.

24 7.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the big one. It's going back to that. Going back to that system. Hilda of like how do we actually connect in a mindful way?

Yeah, well I think it's being intentional and setting some boundaries for ourselves or for our children. I'm doing this little 12 days of sleep miss thing right now because people are sleep deprived and part of it is our devices, part of it is they're getting not just addicted but the light, you know, the light that comes from these interferes with our melatonin production. And so it's the last thing they see before they go to sleep. And then they wonder why can't I fall asleep even though I'm tired? So I'm trying to encourage people to turn off their devices at least a half hour before bed and get the sunrise before screen rise in the morning. So that's what I do. And it's just a healthy habit. It gives it parameters, you know what I mean?

Yeah. There is safety with guidance around it. They can both exist is what I'm saying.

Yeah. And meals together, that's another one. I mean cook your food and then sit down and eat the food with your family. No devices at the table and no unpleasant conversation at the table. No upbraiding or anything. Meals should be pleasant and that's a great kind of fix point in the day when you know you're going to have a nice time. I grew up in a household that was not particularly pleasant for me. But I knew when we sat down to dinner that would be nice. And I always look forward to dinner. It was like the saving grace in my life.

Yeah. That's a tradition. Speaking of wise traditions and these nourishing traditions, what's more nourishing than taking a deep breath, sitting down at a table with people you care about and sharing healthy organic food? Like to me that's it makes. I mean I'm lit up just Thinking about it, it's one of my, if not the favorite thing to do in the world because like you said, it just feels good. There is this system inside of us where we know all these things feel good, but we're so pulled and distracted by really stress. Do you think that breathing, Breathing is one of the tools that we can use before we even eat? Do you direct people with breathing for Weston A. Price or Hilda, when you went across the world, did you see people using breathing techniques? We've been exploring breathwork and the healing of breath so much on Wellness Force. I'm curious how you ladies feel about breathing in Ancestral Lens?

Well, I think it's something. It is very powerful. I think it's something often overlooked. I first heard about using breathing techniques From Andrew Wheal, Dr. Andrew Weil with his kind of box breathing, you know, where you inhale for a certain amount of counts, you hold your breath and you exhale and then you hold again. And I have found that as a wonderful technique to de stress me if I'm shallow breathing during the day or right before bed, if I wake up in the middle of the night for whatever reason, like, I'll do some of that breathing, and it relaxes me once again. I haven't noticed it so much with the communities I've connected with, but maybe, Sali, you have?

Well, I think one thing that they do in these communities is they sing. And singing is just the right kind of breathing. First of all, with singing, you feel your chest out. You feel you're not pulling in when you breathe in. You fill your body with air.

Yes, yes.

And it's a breath, and then it's a long, slow exhale. And that's the way we're supposed to breathe. So we had a wonderful speaker at our conference, Timothy Weeks, who told us about how you fill your chest with air. And most people never do that and never exercised full lung, but that's what singing did for people. I'm a great believer. Just sing in the shower or whatever, but learn that the breathing habits of singers, which is to fill the chest and then to exhale slowly.

This is such a wise piece of knowledge here. Hilda, sorry to jump in. We have a tiny bit of a delay on the Facebook Live. This is such a wise piece of knowledge because if you look at any tradition across the world, they sing, they dance, they tell stories, and they spend time alone, period. I don't care who you are or how you eat, those things apply universally to human and human connection.

That's exactly what I was going to say, josh, is dance like the power of dance? I'll never forget interviewing an expert, but then seeing it with my own eyes, how dance brings a community together. And we, you know, we're always working out or, you know, trying to get strong, but every traditional community doesn't have exercise, but they have dance. So they're moving and they're letting the music fill their spirits, and there's that bond. And so it's just so powerful to dance and have music and that shared experience together.

I love where we are in this conversation. It's so interesting that we're talking about people that live in cities or food deserts, but really what we're doing is we're just connecting people to the core pillars and ways of being that'll actually meet and serve them and nourish them wherever they live. We talked about fermented foods and fats. We also talked about dance and play and singing and being with one another and breathing. We've covered a lot of ground in this conversation. But I think there's a couple more things, maybe from a more pragmatic and even proactive standpoint that we could give to the listeners and to the viewers. Is there any services or any proactive steps that people can take when they're in specifically the food desert? Let's talk to the people that don't have any healthy foods. My girlfriend just got back from West Virginia, and she was like, josh, there's literally no healthy food for hundreds of miles. Everything's Coca Cola and Pepsi and processed crackers. Let's speak to those people. Let's speak to a proactive couple. First steps for those people that live in the food deserts.

Well, one healthy beverage you can do very easily is, I call it a vinegar soda. It's a couple splashes of some kind of vinegar, preferably not without artificial flavors or whatever. Red wine vinegar, apple cider vinegar, and you add sparkling water. If you want to add a squeeze of lemon. I hope you can buy lemon in West Virginia. That's a very refreshing drink and easy to make, and you can make it right on the spot and a good substitute for sodas. The problems are daunting the further away that you get from cities. It's actually much easier to do this in cities than in these rural food deserts. I mean, we have been in towns where you couldn't find butter in the whole town, so it is a huge challenge. Nevertheless, we publish a shopping guide, and the shopping guide is designed so that you could use it in a food desert a lot of these foods are compromised foods. But you shop outside in the supermarket, you buy whole chicken, you make broth with the leftover bones that will help your digestion immensely. You know, just eat the way we say to eat with as best ingredients.

As you can find and do the best you can. But I think the shopping guide also has groups that deliver food, so you could have something shipped to you, but if that's too far. I also like to think of little things people can do apart from diet. So I would say wherever you are, you know, get the sunrise, you know, get nourished by nature, do a little bit of cold adaptation, which I think is also kind of a stimulating, refreshing thing to our spirit and our bodies. So I get out every day, no matter what the weather, and just experience the ambient temperature to wake myself up and energize my body in a way.

This is a girl who does polar swims.

How cold is this water, Hilda? How cold of the water are we talking about?

I take comfort in the fact that water can't get colder than 32 degrees or it freezes. Right.

This is so good.

Gone to Minnesota and done some of that stuff. Yeah, it's fun. It's really fun.

Well, we're getting to the end of the podcast, and I want to give people something practical. I want to give people something practical they can do. The guide. What is the link for the guide where people can actually download this guide? Is it on the homepage of the Weston a. Price?

Yes, westonaprice.org and on the right. Let's see. Where do we have the shopping guide? I think on the right hand.

I see it here.

Yeah. And you can order that. They're $3. Okay. And our 2021 is just out. It's also available as an app, and if you don't want to like to use a cell phone, the app also, you can do it on your computer. Not many apps are like that, but this is an app you can have on your computer, and you can see everything right there.

Excellent. And also, too, from a resource standpoint, this is why I love the Wellness Force community and the Weston A. Price community. Coming together is because. Because there's so much overlap when it comes to truth. These basic fundamentals, the eating, the moving, the sleeping. And we did talk about breathing, which I was really excited about. We have a breathwork guide that I want to give to all people watching this, including Weston A. Price. It's a free guide. It's wellnessforce.comm 21. We took six principles. We've talked about a lot of them here. And these same six principles they applied to over 300 guests that we've had on the show. And they all are this ancestral lens. And the breathing is in there. So go to wellnessforce.com m21 if you're watching this, ladies, I'd like to ask you both an individual question. This wellness lens that we're seeing life through, whether it's ancestral or whether it's just me wanting to have more love and connection with people in the center of this, there's a nexus. There's physical, there's emotional, and there's spiritual. Hilda, how would you define wellness? You know, in between all these things and everything you've been through in your travels, how do you see wellness? What's your definition of living life? Well, what is wellness to you?

Oh, that's such a good question. And no one's ever posed it to me before. I think wellness is almost the sense that you can relish each moment and be present, almost forgetting yourself. Like when we are our best selves, we are enjoying everything around us without a self consciousness, if you will. And I think it's a beautiful place to be. So I do desire that for people that physically, emotionally, and spiritually, that there's a sense in which I can meet you, Josh, and appreciate who you are and not worry about, is my hair messed up or is my scarf right? You know what I mean? And that is really what, in its truest sense, it's being so grounded and so nourished deeply in all those levels that you almost forget about yourself. That's what I would say.

Let me pause there. That was so good, not being perfect, this cloak of imperfection. That's beautiful. And Sally, you have such a different path, but also yours crosses over beautifully with Hilda's. What do you see as wellness? You've written books and conferences. How do you see wellness?

Well, I think, first of all, getting your food right so that you're not hurting, that you're not in pain, that you. You have a lot of energy. That's definitely very important. But I think, secondly is doing work that you love. Not working for money, as Rudolf Steiner said, but working to do the work that you love. And that's very hard to accomplish for many people, although more and more people are trying. They're leaving the corporate world. They were leaving the work that is boring or, you know, unfulfilling or frustrating and trying to do something that they really love to do, often for less money, but they're happy in themselves.

Yeah, I'll never forget when I. When I came to Wellness Force, really being an actual community that could serve, it was 2015. I had no idea what was going to happen, but I just felt that little spark in my heart, and I just trusted it. And there was moments where maybe my trust wavered, you know, and maybe I didn't know how I was going to make ends meet and finances were tied and stress. And something that has come through for me in just talking to both of you ladies today is that internal guidance system. Just to go back to that, it's been in almost every answer you've given. It's been in your definitions of wellness. For people that just want one thing. If they could take away one thing from all you've learned, I'll put you on the spot right here. If they could take away one thing from all you've learned, and they do want to have that access to the inner guidance, what's been a practice in your life that's gotten you closer to your inner guidance? We'll start with Hilda to that inner guidance practice. What is that for you?

It really has been a morning ritual.

Of.

Awareness and prayer and gratitude. You know, I actually have a gratitude journal where I write down every day things I'm grateful for and gets me grounded, like I was saying. So, yeah, I would say a morning ritual of prayer and gratitude. That's really been it.

Beautiful. Sally.

Yes, I think gratitude is very important, but you want to put a lot of butter on that gratitude. I love that.

Great answer.

Well, ladies, go ahead. Butter is the food in nature for the growth and nourishment of all mammals. It can't be bad for you. And butter has things in it that make you feel happy. Butter contains arachidonic acid. You know what we make out of arachidonic acid? We make marijuana. We make our endogenous cannabinoids with what's in butter. So it makes us feel good all the time. Our natural state should be high all the time. Not from any drugs, but from the food we eat and then from all these other products, practices gratitude, having a job that we love, singing in the shower, all these other things. But I tell you, butter is the first step.

Okay, so everybody sing in the shower. Eat butter. Let's be high from our own supply and from the nature that food and food nature. So thank you, ladies for coming on the show holistichilda.com to learn more about this voice for healthy living and obviously, thewestanypricefoundation.org thank you so much Sally and Hilda for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me.

My pleasure. Really fun.

Okay, you guys, we'll talk to you soon. We're talking more about this in the Wellness Force group. So if you're on Facebook or if you're watching this on the replay, go to the Wellness Force community and also go to Weston A. Price as well. Did you want to say something more?

I just say send us the link. We'll get it right up on our Facebook page.

Yes. And until we see you all again, I'm wishing you love and wellness.

Thank you.

Hey, thanks for listening to the show, my friend. Everything you learned on this podcast with your morning practices. So from over 300 world class guests, we pulled together six simple yet powerful morning practices down into a 21 minute system guaranteed to increase your vibration and the way that you feel every day. Get this free powerful guide over@wellnessforce.com M21 and if you love this show, share it with somebody. Share it with somebody that you love or that you care about. You can support the show easily by leaving us a five star review on iTunes. Just go to wellnessforce.com review or if you're on your phone, just tap it. Hit the link in purple that says review this podcast. And the journey does not stop here. We're continuing this discovering process in our private Facebook group over@wellnessforce.com group. You can be a part of it. You already are. All you have to do is join us@wellnessforce.com group and I will welcome you at the door. Now go out into your life and live your life well. And until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.