327 Jeff Agostinelli: Slaying The Dragon of Resistance

We're conditioned to respond in a particular way. Like, we all have a very conditioned mode of responding emotionally to situations. We either shut down, we fight, we get angry, we get defeated, we feel sad, we get excited. Most people have a very predictable way of how they respond to what we would call resistance. Right. And if you can really understand what those stop signs look like, you can start to just run plays and run experiments on how to really, yes, rewire, but also understand how to set up conditions so that when those stop signs show up, you condition yourself or train yourself to do something different. So when I feel anxious or when I feel tight, I will do 50 push ups. I will go for a two mile run, I will put on Eminem and blast it really loud. I will whatever. But setting up different conditions so that you can literally, like scramble the circuits and then start to make new choices.

That's Jeff Agostinelli, and this is episode 327 of Wellness Force Radio.

Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life.

Well, you can have the same brain states as someone who's done an hour of meditation every day for 40 years.

There's a lot of losses that we go through. So the ability to be able to cope with those losses is very important.

To build skill in it, because loss will happen.

You know, you have to have spiritual courage to really grow spiritually. Because if you really take guidance from your soul, you have to be ready to realize that many of the things that you're asking for guidance on, your ego has some kind of an addiction to or an investment in.

What's up, podcast world?

It's Josh Trent, and you're here with.

Us today on Wellness Force. Question for you, wherever you are, maybe you're walking outside or sitting down, driving in a car, maybe you're in nature. Ponder this. Do you ever encounter resistance? Kind of a silly question.

I would know.

The answer is yes. Resistance is something that is universal for all of us. If you have a big dream or you have financial goals or health goals or relationship goals, let's face it, any single thing in your life that your heart really longs for, there's naturally going to be an internal and external resistance for you to get what you actually want, to be the type of person who can handle it and to have the embodiment of the qualities that will allow you to enjoy it for the long term. But what's the magic behind this? I mean, what separates the people who can defeat and finally conquer the dragon of resistance? What is it that these successful people do for their bodies? How do they cultivate their minds and how do they speak words into existence and reality using conscious communication? You know, what is that middle point? The gathering, the applying and the embodiment, the three phases of intelligence that we always talk about on Wellness Force. Now, the answer is surprising and it's probably something you've never really thought about. And we're learning about this answer as well as other tactical and practical emotional and spiritual tools that can be used to slay this dragon of resistance. If you yourself or if someone you care about is currently dealing with that resistance, this is the podcast to share with them. We're learning from high level performance coach, podcast host and motivational speaker Jeff Agonstonelli for his return to the show.

This is actually really cool.

This is a great moment for me. Five years of podcasting. Jeff was on the show, he in 2015 and he has expanded and grown 20 times bigger since then. And this episode, this 20 times bigger episode is brought to you by our trusted friends at Organifi. They make the Organifi Gold. This is a turmeric lemon balm superfood adaptogen bombshell that, trust me, trust me, will make you sleep like a baby. I know this cause I use it on the regular. It's one of my top sleep supplements that I use. It also helps my nervous system and stomach calm down in the evenings. You know, if you have that monkey mind that loops when you're in bed, try some Organifi gold. I promise you'll love it. Because we're human, the best thing to do is to take loving care of ourselves, starting with our sleep. Not just the quantity of sleep, but the quality. Give this superfood adaptogen powder a test drive. Give it a free test drive. If you don't like it, you can send it back. But honestly, no one's ever sent it back. I've never had somebody write it and be like, I didn't like this. Everybody loves it. Just go to Organifi.com WellnessForce use the code WellnessForce to get 20% off your order. It's the biggest discount you're going to find across the Internet. We're grandfathered in early. You get the savings. We're passing them straight to you. Organifi helps to support the show and they support your health for less Money. Go to Organifi.com WellnessForce use the code WellnessForce to get 20% off. Share that code with your friends. By the way, as many people that need better sleep, or maybe your grandma or Your brother give them the code WellnessForce. Go to Organifi.com WellnessForce use that code WellnessForce for 20% off. So in this episode, we're going to learn about the principles of psychology and how they apply to overcoming resistance. Why Jeff ran a 50k ultramarathon. 50k, my friends, that's a long way. We'll explore why resilience and resistance go hand in hand, why Jeff took a year off from his podcast, how that's impacted his trajectory now, and why resistance is described as a mythical force. It sometimes feels mythical, doesn't it? This has one sole mission, this resistance, to keep things as they are. We'll talk about the biological reward of faith.

This was really cool.

It's why I love podcasting, by the way, learning things like this.

The biological reward of faith.

This is. This is gonna rock your world. Whether you're analytical or spiritual, this podcast is gonna deliver motivation for you to secure that long term inspiration on how to beat this dragon. This fire breathing dragon. You know, the one that tells you you're not good enough. You can't do it. It's all bullshit. We know this. Jeff and I are gonna discover this right here, right now on wellnessforce. Oh, and if you're feeling this inspiration, please do our team a favor. Leave us a five star review on iTunes at wellnessforce.com review or just go to itunes directly. Leave us a review. We pick one winner every month. We give them 90 days of Organifi. 90 free days. 90 free days of organifi delivered right to your door as a thank you. And also thank you. Thank you for your review from the bottom of my heart for leaving us this review on itunes. It helps the show reach more intelligent people like you, and it also helps us get the dream guests on, like Dr. Joe Dispenza, which I will be interviewing this year for all of us to enjoy and grow from. All right, let's drop in now with the one and only Jeff Agostinelli.

Jeff, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me on, Josh. So good to catch up, bro.

Hey, you know what I was thinking? Episode 75, which was almost four years ago, you were on the show and we talked about chronic thinking, and today we're talking about something just as powerful but also just as devious.

Resistance.

The resistance. We've heard about this with Steven Pressfield, and I think we all experience resistance, man. But before we dig into that, tell people what you've been up to since episode 75. What's been going on with Jeff Agostinelli. And everything that you.

75. Oh, my goodness. So since episode 75, I'll give you the shorter version on the personal side. Separated, soon to be divorced, stopped the podcast, started the podcast, reinvented personally twice. It's been a very interesting four years. But I tell you what, resilience and resistance go hand in hand, right? So it's like a lot of times when we go through transitions and navigating changes, resistance is high. What's your cursing policy? I feel like I'm about to start. Start dropping F bombs.

You can just drop it. Use that language that we all use.

Okay, good. Feel it coming, right? So, you know, it's like resistance comes on strong as fuck, right? So it's just like one of those things that's like, no, no, like, hell, no, we won't go kind of thing, right? And it's really our job to just kind of like look that thing in the face and start to go past it and start to be resilient and build up that kind of wherewithal to know how to persist through conditions instead of succumb to gravity and pressure of the past. Right? But as far as, like, what I've been up to, I told you, I started doing ultramarathons. I did my first 50k last year. But I also took really a year pause from doing my own podcast, the Next Level, because I was in this kind of, you know, things in my personal life were reorganizing. And I also realized in my business that I had a number of. I had a lot of resistance to doing things differently and I had a lot of fear. One of like, turning off the show. I didn't want to look like a quitter and I didn't want to. You know, I had all of these like kind of self imposed peer pressure assumptions, right? I was kind of like imposing them on myself, but they sounded like peer pressure. And. And I just, at one point I just said, fuck it. And I'm like, I am going to see what happens because I just deconstructed it, which is, you know, when I do work with my clients and anxiety and overwhelm. Deconstructing and reconstructing is a very common practice, right? Like, what is this really? And when I got down to it, I was just like, let's find out. And that little. Those three words, let's find out, became my mantra for like the last two years.

Oh, so simple, yet so powerful too.

Because anytime anything came up, it's just like, let's find out.

I can even think about how in the face of resistance, taking a deep breath and just asking a question, like, why actually is this happening for me instead of, I think, what catches most of us and we become a slave to the biology, the physiology of the brain. You know, it's like the loops happen for a reason, right? We've all. We all get stuck in the thought loops. It's crazy for me that you pause for a year of the next level. Like, what were you feeling as you paused the show and then what made you flick the switch back on?

Well, initially, I had paused it because, I mean, literally, I just tell you, like, I was like, all right, for. I love doing the podcast. My initial intention with the show was I wanted to interview these people who I was reading about their stuff, I was reading their books, and I was like, I want to just dive really deep. And, you know, you do the same thing. It's like, I want to dive deeper with these people because I. I have an uncommon hunger that's almost insatiable for really understanding this stuff to the nth degree. So I just kept doing it, kept doing it, kept doing it. But then at one point I was like, well, really? Yes, I love doing it, and it's really a vehicle to drive my coaching business. One of the intentions with it was to bring in people that I could help change their lives through my coaching. And at one point I was like, all right, is this really working? And I said, I don't know. How would I know if it's working? And I literally just started picking it apart. And I go, well, let's do a little experiment. I'm going to turn the show off. Worst case scenario is that I turn it off for a month and I realize I need it, and guess what? I turn it back on. It's really not that hard. And at the very worst, I could just. My listeners, I tell them I wanted to do an experiment and see what was actually working. I turned it off. And from that time, in that one year, I just dove really, really deep with clients, and I realized that I didn't need the podcast to acquire clients. That was the biggest realization I had. And it really kind of let me off the hook and almost took a pressure off. Because I think, too, that there's almost this unspoken thing with content creators, right, where like, we almost feel entitled, right? Like, I'm creating this content. You should buy my service.

Yes. You don't know how much work I'm putting in for this.

Exactly. It's so icky and gross. Right. It's Just like. Yeah, it's like codependent, right? It's like codependent content creation. So. I know, right? So that really helped me get over it, honestly. And I was just like, I'm doing this because I really love it and I'm getting clients now, so I'm going to start the show back up. And I started up in a different format, so I'm doing mostly solo rounds and I'm inviting people on for interviews when I feel really, really compelled to have somebody on. I just. Actually, one's launching this week with Kelly McGonigal. She wrote the Joy of Movement. Very, very good book. Anyways, so it's just. It was more of an intuitive hit. Like, it's time to turn it off. It's time to turn it on.

Well, that takes a lot of courage because anybody that's known for something, there's an identity attached to it. So when that identity starts to be questioned or when the, quote, content isn't being seen as much like people might raise. Because we live in this world now, it's such a crazy world. We live in this half digital, half human world. And I find that so many people are feeling connected because of social. But when it comes to actually hanging out in groups, sharing their thoughts, letting the walls come down and using real words with each other, like, that's the art of conversation, that's the art of connection, that is lacking. It is lacking. And it's because so many people are feeling the resistance to actually mix up their schedule, like go out, get into a new group, sit in a men's circle, sit in a woman's circle and just get over themselves so they can actually connect. What is that resistance model? Because this is what you work with, with clients, I would assume. What's your viewpoint on this? The differentiation? It's the probably the same mechanism of resistance where people feel embarrassed or they feel shy and don't want to connect in groups, in person. And the way that they don't want to succeed in their business. I would assume it's almost the same mechanism in the brain.

It is. Here's the thing that you brought up a couple things that are important. One's identity. Right. You brought up another thing, is that a lot of people, it depends on the person. Right. So if someone's using, let's say, an online platform because they are embarrassed in person, they feel like they're not a good orator. Right. They don't speak well. If they feel like they don't build connections, well, they're not a Good conversationalist. Or if they also feel ashamed or embarrassed about something, like they have something to hide, they're going to be less likely to come out from behind the computer. Okay. But when it comes to identity, if someone's using, let's say Instagram, for instance, because it seems to be the most common platform where people will present a Persona, even if it's not true, it's.

Almost like potentially just a picture of their butt with a quote from Abraham Hicks underneath it.

Right? Yeah. That's hilarious. So the thing of it is, it's like if someone's portraying themselves to be this person on social media and their life is perfect and all this stuff and it's really not, then they're going to have an apprehension to do things other than that. But the resistance, I think more is it really comes down to beliefs, because beliefs drive our actions. If we believe that we need to sit behind a computer and write emails, do posts, do all of this stuff, that going out and connecting with actual people is a waste of time and it's not going to produce the same results. Because when I can connect with 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 and up people at a time, why would I go connect with somebody one to one? Yeah, that. That one belief, Josh, I'm telling you, is keeping most coaches and most people who are have an online business stock.

Why is that? Because I would think they get into it working with people one on one, and then maybe they get the. Don't they get the taste of reaching more people?

Most people don't, dude. I mean, I didn't realize this, but, like, most people don't start working with people one to one, like in person, and then transition to online. The majority of people that I've encountered go online because they don't want to work with people in person. It's a very strange phenomenon, which is interesting.

It's counterintuitive because you would think that somebody that has a desire to help one person at a time would be just as beneficial and build the same skill set to help as many people as possible online. You would think they would work tandem, like, hand in hand.

Yeah.

I wonder what that's about.

I mean, I think there's a lot into it, but I know for me personally is like, I worked with people one to one, in person a lot, in a number of different modalities. And I went online mainly for location freedom. Right?

Yeah.

Because I have a young daughter and I wanted to be able to, like, I want to pick her from school. Right. Like, I want to do that stuff and not have to, like, be somewhere at a certain time and be able to arrange my schedule a certain way. But to get back to the topic of resistance, I think that people who are resistant to go and connect in person, even just for the experiment, to understand why the heck they're resistant to it, they should go do it. You know, not should in the sense of, like, well, you should. But, like, why not be curious as to why there's resistance to go and do something?

Well, I think. I think people. There's a misnomenclature there because I think people assume, like, oh, if I follow my passion, it's gonna be joyous, and it's gonna be like a light with a harp and an angel guiding the way.

And it's just.

It couldn't be further from the truth because I think we've all watched too many Disney movies as kids, and we've all been sold this bill of goods by people like Gary Vaynerchuk and, you know, hustle, hustle, hustle, grind. And then, you know, eventually it'll all work out once you've put out 5 million pieces of content. But, you know, it's. I don't think from my experience, and I'm curious how you feel specifically when you work with coaches or just anybody listening to this show that might want to have their own business. Either they're working on it right now or they want to have it one day. Is it really about the quantity or is it more about the heartfelt quality?

I think 100% it's about the quality. Right? Because you can produce. I mean, how much content is there online? We don't have figures for this kind of stuff.

It's like in the trillions.

It's infinite almost. It's huge. And it's ever expanding every day in so many ways. I know for me, personally, I tried playing the quantity game, and it's exhausting. One, two. It lacks depth. So when you're. I know for me, personally, when I started going from, like, trying to create more to creating something for a specific person, solving a specific problem, it went from throwing shit against the wall to see if it'll stick to how can I help this person overcome this problem? And that really humanized it for me. Right? And I can't tell you the number of times where I'll just kind of get a hit to reach out to, like, I'll go through my followers list and actually, like, reach out to people and message them. And I was just doing it yester a person that follows me on Instagram was like, I can't tell you. I've been meaning to reach out to you for the past couple weeks because I've been experiencing this, that, and the other. Right. And, like, just that one thing. Like, I mean, it's just people want to do everything that scales, quote, unquote, but they're almost afraid to do the stuff that's actual work.

Yeah, yeah. And to quote, you know, my favorite man on this topic, Steven Pressfield. I've read that book three times, the War of Art. And really, it's probably the best book that we'll link in the show notes. It is the best book for somebody who's experiencing resistance. Because he talks about this dragon that he had to slay. You remember this chapter? And he said as soon as he wrote the book, I mean, he had had, like, he had gone through two marriages. He was living in a van. Like, resistance kicked his ass. And I think all of us can allow resistance to kick our ass because we all want to, like, slay our own internal dragon. You know, maybe it's launching a podcast or writing a book or just being a great father or great mother. I mean, there's so many ways that we all slay our dragon. But what do you think the recipe is, man? What's the true recipe for slaying the dragon? For overcoming the resistance? Like, are there core components that we all deal with?

Oh, absolutely. One of the best analogies that I can really think of is, like, driving in traffic, Right? So if you're driving, you're conditioned that if you see a stop sign, what do you do?

I stop.

Exactly. Yes. Have you ever blown through a stop sign just because you feel like it?

Maybe when I was younger.

We won't go there, but I think that a lot of our behaviors and our patterns are the same way. We're conditioned to respond in a particular way. Like, we all have a very conditioned mode of responding emotionally to situations. We either shut down, we fight, we get angry, we get defeated, we feel helpless, we feel sad, we get excited. Most people have a very predictable way of how they respond to what we would call resistance. Right. And if you can really understand what those stop signs look like and how to notice them when they show up, you can start to just run plays and run experiments on how to really. Yes. Rewire, but also understand how to set up conditions so that when those stop signs show up, you condition yourself or train yourself to do something different. Right. So let's say, like, you know, when I feel. When I feel anxious or when I feel tight or when I start to worry, I will do 50 push ups, I will go for a two mile run, I will put on Eminem and blast it really loud. I will whatever those are some of mine, but setting up different conditions so that you can literally like scramble the circuits and then start to make new choices.

So let me just unpack that a tiny bit like, because I. One thing that is fascinating to me is this concept called trigger action response. And so I guess we could put a trigger being like, oh my gosh, I feel anxiety, overwhelm or fear or resistance itself. And that's a trigger. And it could be looking at a report, looking at our bills, having a talk with a spouse, that's uncomfortable. Like all of these things, we encounter resistance, but there is some point in our brain where we can turn that switch and we can actually just like relax and breathe into it. Are you saying that we literally change our response to the trigger through practicing putting in a new external stimuli? Like, are we putting in something new when we feel the trigger?

The interjection or the introducing of the external? Anything. Right. Like listen to music, go for a jog is to help with the change of state. So if you're used to freezing, putting on some music can really help you to elevate your mood, right? And then to take the new action after that. So yes, it is replacing it, but it's not directly replacing it. Like most people try and kind of like fight thoughts, right? They're like trying to replace. They're like going toe for toe with thoughts, right? Like, well, I can't do this. Well, I can do this. Well, I can't do this. Well, I can do this. It's like, yeah, I don't know how much you want to affirm that, but you might just want to go do it.

Yeah. There is this part of the psyche too that's the observer. I'm sure you've studied Carl Jung as we've talked about on the show, and he really, in his work he talks about being able to watch the thoughts as they go by. And I can only imagine like having a boxing match with your thoughts, you're always going to lose. Like for sure you try to fight your thoughts, you try to go toe to toe with your thoughts. Like there's not a better way to get knocked out. No, I can only imagine how many people listening feel this way though, because look, we're all human. We all have these kind of internal wars at times where it's like, should I Do the thing. Should I not do the thing? Should I keep my promise to myself? Should I not? What is that? Is it discipline or is it just resistance? Wearing different clothes, like, what's going on there for us?

You know what's interesting? And I remember, just to put it into context a little bit, I remember there was some studies where there were diseases. Like somebody would be checked into a hospital in a more developed country where the doctors had a higher level of education and they would diagnose an illness based on the symptoms that this person had. Then they would take this person and put them in another hospital where they had no idea what that disease was, even though the same symptoms were present, so that the patient would not get diagnosed. And those conditions, those symptoms would start to clear up themselves. So just putting things into the context of resistance, of this, of that, giving things names sometimes can be the limiting factor. So a lot of times you'll hear me and I'll kind of take the psychological or the behavioral literal terms for things, like the scientific terms for stuff, and just like kind of break them down and make them as simple as possible so that we're not coming into what we think we have to do in order to achieve a result, Right? Yeah. So when it comes to resistance, when it comes to any of this stuff, I think it just really comes down to making it as simple as possible. So the way if you have a certain. Like for instance, I was talking before we hit record about I started doing ultras last year, or an ultra last year, late last year, I ran a 50k. And most people I talked to, I have a lot of buddies, some who are in the athletic coaching, some are running coaches. And I started talking to them and they're like, oh, I can put together a plan and we can do this, we can do this, we can do that. I'm like, I'm going to just start running and then I'm going to put together a plan on the fly, right. So I would just start running. I think it was in April I started running. My race was in November. And I knew that needed about four months. But instead of getting really bogged down on trying to create the perfect plan and do all this stuff, my goal was just to, like, run a 50k on trail switchbacks, which was very hell of a lot more intense than I thought it would be. And to just start running and then to build the plan. I could have overcomplicated a million times, but every week it was just like, I'm just going to run 20 miles today. And when I'm running 20 miles, I'm not thinking, oh, my God, I got 10 more miles. I've got 15 more miles. I'm thinking, just one more mile. Just one more mile. Just one more mile. So really breaking things down and not even, like, it's cool to have a conversation about resistance, and it's really cool to, like, talk about this stuff, but in situ, like, when you're in the situation, to really just look at it and be like, what is it I don't want to do right now? Well, I really don't want to make these phone calls. Why not? Well, I just really don't. I don't feel like it. I don't feel like it's not a valid excuse. Like, I don't feel like it's not going to cut it. You're not 10 anymore, right? Get over it. Right. So it's like, yes, I want to honor feelings. I work on the emotional level a lot with stuff we get into small T trauma. I don't do big T trauma, like that type of stuff. I outsource. You know, I refer that out to, you know, qualified professionals. But when it comes to really dissecting and understanding it, I'm breaking it down to the most simple next step. Like, just running the next mile is the next best thing.

Let that land for a moment. Because the power in that is that you do the thing. My favorite quote ever, Ralph Waldo Emerson, do the thing, then you have the power. Do the thing. You got to do the thing first. You don't have the power first. And then you do the thing. You do the thing and you cultivate the power. It's like, that's. That's how it works in nature as well. Like, a lion isn't born powerful. You know, he fucking grows up eating, slaying, hunting, then he becomes powerful. So if we're going to slay this dragon of resistance, I feel like. Tell me how you feel, Jeff. It's about committing to the process of getting the courage and the strength to slay the dragon 100%.

I mean, think. Let's draw a parallel, Josh. Resistance training, walking into a gym and getting on a bench, never having lifted a weight and expecting to bench press 225, throwing two plates on each side. How are you going to do with that?

Yes. Unless you were born just with freak strength. That does.

Unless. Unless you're just like a beefcake by nature. Right? But let's say someone's a buck 50 and they've never set foot in a gym. And they're five, six. That's not going to go anywhere.

Yeah.

You've got to start with what, maybe like put some 25s on there, put some tens on there. Like, start with like 85 pound bench presses and work your way up. Add weight every week. And when you get stronger, you'll get there. So it's like, I mean, I was having a conversation with a guy today too. He's like, I'm just not clear. When I get clear, I'll do this. I'm like, where do you think clarity comes from? You know, people are under the assumption that they have to be courageous or they have to be confident before they do something, or they have to be clear before they do something. I remember Marie Forleo when she said this years ago. I heard her say it for the first time ever. She's like, clarity comes from engagement, not thought. Right? It's like you don't get clear by thinking your way there. You get clear by doing shit. I mean, just to put it pretty simple, I'm in a little bit of a fiery mood today too. So I think this is coming through kind of strong. But you get the point of like, you know, it really comes down to building it on the way and having a great plan, but not getting so bogged down by the details that you become immobilized.

Man. I gotta pause you right there because I have experienced this myself. I know that any, anyone listening who's ever built anything, whether they're an entrepreneur or a solopreneur or just, you know, someone that wants to build something, it's like we get so attached to the plan, the perfect PDF, the perfect bullet list. Like I'm going to plan out 10 weeks of doing it and I'm going to put all my foods in a container and blah, blah. You still got to take the first bite. You still have to actually do the thing. And this is where on the show we always explore this concept of real intelligence. Jeff. You know, it's, it's the gathering, it's the applying to actually do the thing, and then it's the refinement towards embodiment. So gather and then apply and then lastly embody. Embodiment is where I believe the dragon is slayed. Yet it's in those first two phases, like the applying and then also the gathering, where really we're gathering the courage. Isn't that really what it is, man? We're just gathering the courage in those phases.

Yeah, I mean, I think the dragons, the lack of something, right? So it's displaced by the acquisition of the characteristics that you get by doing something. Yeah, right. It's not. You're. You're not going to just like, sit and meditate your way to success.

If it was that easy, everyone would definitely be doing it. If all we had to do was sit and meditate, like, yeah, people would be meditating for hours a day. But. But there is something you mentioned earlier that was powerful for me. You said resilience and resistance go hand in hand. When I think of the word resilience, I think of like a really strong tree that gets blown by the wind, but its roots are so deep that it doesn't snap. How do you define resilience and how does the resilience aspect in building that help us slay the dragon of resistance?

Well, I love Rick Hanson. He wrote Buddha's Brain, Hardwiring Happiness. He wrote a book called Resilient, actually. And it goes through all these different qualities of resilience and how at the base of it, it's establishing safety. Right. So I think that resilience has become a Just like mindset. I don't like that word. Just like the word mindset has become this benign thing that people throw around. Even like mindset, it's such a blank.

It's such a blank state work.

Right.

It's like mindset.

Trauma. Trauma. Informed, yes. Somatic, like all. It's just. I mean, I get it, people want to be able to do deep work, but most people don't commit to doing the work it requires to get to the level of knowledge and wisdom really it takes to do that. But I digress. So resilience is multifaceted, right. It's not just this one thing that most people see it as this tough exterior. There's different qualities to resilience that are acquired by going through the process of being able to persist. I mentioned at the beginning, ish, when I said I started doing interviews again, that I interviewed Kelly McGonigal who wrote the Joy of Movement. And in there she talks about so much great science behind, like, exercise and movement. And she gets into ultra athletes and just all kinds of amazing stuff. But she really reframes the runner's high as the persistence high. Right. That we have this hardwired mechanism in our biology to persist. And where most people think the runner's high is this thing that we're trying to achieve to get high, it's really a reward system built into our biology so that we do persist.

Tell us about that reward system. I mean that to Me is like, the gold.

Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. I'm super new to it, but I experienced it firsthand of, like, you know, when you get to a certain point, your biology basically just, like, dopes you up to keep going, right? Like, your. Your tolerance for pain increases, you're flooded with all kinds of fantastic hormones and neuro. Your neurobiology is just, like, going wild, right? It's, like, primed for everything. Like, we're built to move in there, too. She quotes. I can't remember who it was, but he said something to the effect of the world. I make sense of the world through movement, right?

Yeah.

And when he said that, I was like, wow, it's just such an amazing thing. But the. In short, the way I understand it is this reward system, it fuels us. So the more that we persist, the more benefit we get in our neurobiology, right? Like, we're being fed these positive hormones, these positive experiences as we persist to keep us persisting. Whereas most people thought like, oh, runners run to get high. It's like, no, that's what allows them to keep running and keep going.

And I can.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense because I can only assume, if you were to wear, like, a headset and you know, your physiology, your brain neurokinetics were tracked, they would probably see that the same synapses that are being deeply grooved to overcome, like, the challenge of you running up a hill is the exact same way that we slay a dragon when we sit down to write a report.

That's 50 pages.

It's the same thing, man. You know, it's the same style of resistance.

That would be my guess, too. Yeah. 100% is that same muscle of persistence. So what's cool about that, Josh, is like, knowing that that feedback loop, ex. Like, information such as that can give us the knowledge to understand that, like, oh, if I just keep going, I'll be able to keep going, right? It's like. It's almost like the biological reward of faith, right? Like, knowing that we can persist in believing in ourselves. It's like, if we can just keep going, we can trust that our body is going to carry us through or that our mind's going to carry us through, that our spirit, or carry us through on whatever level you want to believe it at, but knowing that we can persist and that will be carried through.

Man, I love that I've never heard that sentence. This is why I love podcasting, because the biological reward of faith. The biological reward of faith, like, let's let that land for a moment. Faith is something you can't see, you can't smell, you can't taste it, you can't touch it. It's only within the psyche. Like, it's within our heart and soul. There's no way that you could, quote, quantify having faith in something. You just have it. It's a feeling that you have. And not everybody is born in an environment where that faith is fortified. In other words, their parents might think that faith is a joke, or we might have a negative connotation towards faith because we got scarred from religion, however you want to describe it. But this biological reward of faith, how has that played out for you, man? With all the challenges that you've experienced since episode 75, like, how have you been seeing that unfold in your life?

It just comes down to the fact that when you experience enough miracles, honestly I call them when it always works out no matter what, you just start to believe in something greater. So it's just like that muscle gets built up. The more trials and tribulations that you experience and the more you are able to not buckle under pressure. And the more I'll just speak into it from the first person of, like, the more I was able to really just like, move through each experience and look at it. Same thing. Deconstruct and reconstruct. Right. Like, break it down. Like, okay, what's really happening here? Okay, cool. How do I feel? Wow. Like, panic. Like, my chest is tight. Like, I'm breathing shallow. I'm kind of shaking. Well, what can I do right now? Can I do something about this?

Yeah.

And like, slow, you know, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Right. Like, you know that it's the same thing as in our. The same thing with our biology. Like, if we can slow down long enough to just be present with what we're feeling, with what we're thinking and what we're experiencing, just continuing to exercise our ability to take the next step. I tell you what's proved my faith over and over again is the ability to just take the next step, knowing it's going to work out, and then having a conversation with somebody that's completely unrelated to what I was thinking or having a conversation with somebody a week ago and having it reflect almost identical to what we were talking about. Right. Coming from. You ever have those conversations where someone just like, spits out, like, everything you were just thinking or saying to somebody a week ago and it was a completely unrelated conversation that has happened multiple times? Yeah. So it's just like, synchronicity is when they start to show up. For me, those are just like the breadcrumbs from the universe, right? Like Jessie Maywolf, she has a heart rise movement and she calls them winks right, from the universe. Like these little winks of just like, you know, I gotcha, right?

And we all feel a certain way when those happen. It's almost like a little flutter in our heart and throat. Oh, I'm on the right path now. That's evidence that I'm on the right path. But sometimes, man, there can be months at a time for some people, Jeff, let's be honest, even years that go by where they don't feel that biological reward of faith, they don't get the winks, they don't get the little flutters. Like, for those people, there can be just Dispenza talks about this, where people get addicted to the thought processes of joy and of pain equally. So these people can get locked in to, like, 12 months of pain, knowing that it's, quote, normal. It becomes a new baseline of normal. Like, how do you work with people that might be stuck in that type of linear loop?

That's a great question. Actually. Recently we wrapped up October, November. Like, November ish. I was working with a guy, he's in his mid-60s. And something he had said right towards the end of our eight weeks working together, he said he got more moved in his life in eight weeks than he had in the prior three years. Not only that, but he wrapped up. There was a potential divorce that was kind of in the air for, like, 19 years. There was a ton of stuff that was maybe happening or in transit or in transition that was just, like, there and not doing anything. And we moved all of those mountains literally in eight weeks. And like I said, it's a lot of what I've been saying today, but here's the thing, and I was having a conversation with somebody about this today, is that. But a lot of people need, like, not a drill sergeant, but somebody that's going to be like, call them on their shit. Like, when they're like. You know, you can hear when somebody's tone drops. They're like, yeah, well, it's like, no, fuck that. No, well. Like, don't be digging a well. I didn't say dig a well. I said do this. You know, it's like people need some redirection. A lot of the times it's gentle. And sometimes you got to be willing to take out the sledgehammer, right? And just, like, shatter those beliefs. In a super fucking loving way.

Yeah.

And sometimes love looks like, dude, you're kidding yourself. And if you keep doing that, people in your life are going to suffer forever. So are you ready to change, or are you going to be a little bitch?

Sometimes love swings a sledgehammer.

Yeah.

Like, that's the reality of it all. Because love isn't always this, like, puppy dog, candy cane ice cream smoothie. You know? Like, I. I don't know why puppies would be in a smoothie, but you. You know what I mean? The puppies outside the smoothie, y'. All. But. But what I'm talking about is, like, I guess we just. And myself included in this for sure. Even now, you know, even now in my business, my relationship. My relationship with myself, it's like sometimes I project a. This should be like this, or it's supposed to be like this. And then when I meet that resistance of what actually is, what happens for me is there's growth. You know, it's like, okay, well, let me just actually look what's going on right now, and let me have a preference of what I actually want. Like, for example, I might want to have a million downloads on the podcast, but if it's not even close to that, like, I get to actually see what's there. I get to actually take, really, what I call an emotional inventory. I'm sure you have some type of an inventory process when you take someone in, specifically someone, let's be real, who's really, really struggling with resistance.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, honestly, I call it getting sober, right? It's like, you got to get sober with the facts. Like, you got to really look at what's true right now. And most people, to be honest, Josh, like, when they look at what's true, they feel super helpless. And that's why a lot of us ignore pain, is because we feel like we can't do jack shit about it. And that right there is one of the most painful emotions, I think, personally, like feeling helpless or feeling like you can't do anything to change your situation, it's not real. It may be hard to believe that it's possible to turn things around, and you may have tried some things, but nothing's impossible.

This almost feels, in a way, like cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy, where there's an emotional inventory first and then there's a guide and action plan to get someone over the bridge. But you're not a therapist. Like, how would you describe yourself? I mean, in a way, it almost feels like you're a Therapist, but I know you're not.

I know. Well, it's funny because my background, you know, my undergraduate was biology and I was pre med and I wanted to be a neurosurgeon. That was like my path, right? And then I told the story on the first episode, what was it, 75 or something like that episode?

75.

But I'll tell the short version is that like basically what happened was I was on the track for western medicine. You know, it was like super, just like smart in math and science and I loved helping people. My dad's a dentist, my uncle's a doctor. There's like a lot of medical dental professionals in our circle of friends and in family. So naturally, Jeff, you're good at these things. Go do this thing. Okay, cool. That makes sense. But then I kind of have one of those realizations of like, this isn't for me. And my cousin in law was diagnosed with stage four prostate cancer. So my cousin was cooking a macrobiotic diet for him at the time. And I was in upstate New York and they were in Hollywood and Burbank, in those two areas in Southern California. So I was like, shit, I'm going to go out there and learn about this macrobiotic thing. So I shadowed my cousin, learned about macrobiotics and I was a living macrobiotic chef. And I cooked for people with stage three and stage four cancer, mostly live in. So anywhere from two weeks to six months I was living in these people's homes and cooking their meals all day. And any remedies, right, like different kinds of drinks, like lotus root teas or burdock teas, anything that was very specific for their condition. So what happened was I really got to see how people went through their healing journey firsthand. And of course you have to have bedside manner when you're working with people in their homes and learn how to speak with people and do all of that stuff. So I studied up, did all that and went through some trainings, did a lot of stuff around language, which is the bulk of where my training is in language and body language and this form of iridology called bioptic holography. So when it comes to like working with people on that level, most of really the genesis of what I do now is seeing that people don't heal with just food, right? It's like, sure, what you put in your mouth matters, right? I'm very adamant about what I do consume and what I don't consume. But moving from that situation to then working for people who were just had the money to Afford a private chef to then moving into helping the company where I did life coaching and personal development, all that stuff, helping them bring all their stuff online. So moving more into the business role, I kind of played both sides. So all of the training that I got was from all of the chefing and working with people in macrobiotics, and then working at the Cushi Institute for Macrobiotics, which was a macrobotic training center in Massachusetts, a retreat center, and then at Gabriel Cousins Tree of Life Rejuvenation center, doing the same thing with raw food and helping people on their healing journeys that way. Basically, I just worked with a ton of people in a ton of different ways and just kept what worked and what didn't work threw it out the window. So it's like most of my training has been on the ground working with people and self study, interviewing and going through a lot of trainings.

What's fascinating to me is that there are so many people that call themselves an expert or a coach or whatever it is, and they're like, you know, 20 years old. And I'm not saying that that's bad, because I think what they're doing is. It's admirable. You know, they're trying to help people, but there's just not enough life that's transpired for them to put in the reps. Like, the repetition of learning hasn't had time to lay down the network in the brain, you know. And so when I think about this concept of truly being of service to people, you know, you work with people using the language that their mouth is, using the language that their body is putting out, but also consciousness and emotional intelligence. You know, when we look at these four concepts, those things take decades to evolve and be refined. And I think when I see you out there in the world working with the athletes and with the performers that you work with, is it the case that people that are younger, that are doing their very best, when they stack up to somebody that's had decades in the field, how do you actually navigate those waters? When somebody comes up to you and says, jeff, you know, I want to. I want to have the skills that you have. I want to do what you do. Like what. What is the path for them to get there?

I think it's just the same as what we've been talking about. Just do it. You know what I mean? It's like start, you know, go and do some type of quote unquote certificate. I'm not huge on certifications because it's like so many people Are like, have, like 7,000 letters after their name. Yeah. But, like, don't know how to work with people. I'm a lifetime learner. In fact, my parents always joked they're like, you're always going to be in school. I'm like, yeah, I love to learn. And it's like, you know, I feverishly read and I'm always doing research is because, like, that's just, like, I want to know more because times change. Like, you can't. Learning never stops. So that's number one. So, like, commit to a lifetime of learning and just learn how to help people. So find a system that you want to get trained in and start to get trained in it, but make sure that you're working with people along the way. Right. And I always say, find a coach, find a mentor. Find somebody who has like a. Like a. Not. I don't want to say accredited, but like, yeah, vet your program. Right. There's too many programs out there that are not good, period. I'll just say it that way. So it's like, you know, you don't need some crazy, you know, course that's going to teach you how to build your whole business from day one. All you need is, like, some skills for you to feel confident working with people and make sure that you're working with the people that you're qualified to work with. Right. Like, I don't think somebody who doesn't have any, you know, qualifications has any business working with somebody who's been through, like, intense sexual trauma or who's been through, like, you know, violent crimes or any of that stuff. Like, absolutely not. And I say that right up front. Like, if I ever work with anybody after we do an intake form, if I. If someone's had, like, significant trauma, I say if any point during our coaching relationship, if at any point I feel that they're, you know, like, you're. If someone at one point was suicidal. Right. I said if any point I feel that this is getting too far, I will refer you to a psychologist.

Yeah.

Period. Or I will refer you to the proper people. Like, that's my job to make sure that, like, I'm not biting off more than I can chew. Because that's just ridiculous.

Yeah.

I think people forget that we're dealing with people.

You know, for me, when I hear you say that, it's so obvious. But we live in this scientifically focused, logical, everything's got to be a certain way kind of world, and it's all bullshit. I think we're seeing everything being shook into the ground right now. Like, I don't care what system you. You experience or feel. It could be the medical, the pharmaceutical, even, even food, you know, I recently partnered with an organic superfood company, and it's just blowing me away the way that people have this negativity bias towards how organic is so expensive or how taking care of yourself is so expensive. But what they don't realize is on the other side of it, it's 5 and 10 and 20x more expensive to not take care of yourself. Possibly spending a few more dollars now. It's like, it's so crazy, Jeff, the. The consciousness and the awareness of people here in this world. And I think that same thing applies to getting out of their own way. And resistance. How do you feel about resistance being one thing that multiplies into almost everything that people see?

I mean, it has exponential returns, right? Like, if you can eliminate resistance, the thing. It's like Pandora's box, right? Like, once you take the lid off of resistance and start to unpack what you're resistant to, it bleeds over into everything else, literally. It's like, oh, my God. Like, I thought that was really hard and I thought this was gonna happen. Like, if that's true, then, like, what else was I telling myself? That was bullshit, right? It's like it becomes this thing of, like. I know for me, it did, right? It was like. I remember I did a half marathon years ago and it was really hard. And I was like, a combination of that, plus my wife at the time was like, oh, that's a lot of time running. And this, that and the other, like, it was just, like, not fun. But then I started to realize, like, a couple years ago, I was like, I need to pick a sport and I want to run. And I just did the same thing. I was like, well, let's find out. I'm going to start running. Got the proper footwear, you know, started running. And I realized after, like, I remember one day it was like super hot out and people are like, why do you run in the middle of the day? I was like, because I love the sun beating on me and, like, sweating like crazy. It's like 90 degrees and I'm running 14 miles at 1 o' clock in the afternoon. And I was just like, I love it. And then I was like, wow. I thought I hated it. I never knew I could run 14 miles. I'm like, what else could I do? You know? It's like, I'm going to do an ultra and people are like, what? I'M like, yeah, I'm going to do a 50K. They're like, that's insane. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to do 100 miles next year. So it just becomes a thing of like, well, why not? Like, let's play. Let's see what's up, man.

The same thing applies to public speaking, doesn't it? Or doing videos or anything? Like, last year, I was on the stage at the Paleo conference, and I'm up there with, like, you know, the heavy hitters in the industry, and I'm feeling nervous, and I'm like, you know, who am I to do this imposter syndrome, blah, blah, blah. Then I get through, I do my breath work, and I'm finished with it. And I'm like, oh, let's do that again. Like, it was such a high and it was so fun, but yet before it happened, the conversation in my brain, the resistance was so severe and it was almost paralyzing at certain points. And I wonder, is this really just, you know, what Jordan Peterson talks about? Systematic desensitization. Can we just slowly, inch, step by step, brick by brick, day by day, with accountability through a coach like you. With accountability through community or group. Because nobody's a lone wolf. I don't care. Even if you identify as one, you're actually not. Is that really what it is? Is it that simple, but not that easy?

I think it's incredibly simple. And it's definitely not that easy. I mean, you bring up public speaking, I remember the first time. I'm easy with it now. Well, depending on the size of the crowd. But I'm pretty easy with it now. But I would, like, shake, like, nervously shake my.

I would sweat. I would drip sweat.

Yeah. Oh, my God. I sweat like a disgusting beast. Oh, my God. But the thing of it is, too, Josh, is like, tell on yourself, right? Like, if you're nervous, like, you might not. You might not have to do it if you can get past it. But, like, if it does get to a point where it's almost crippling, you go out and you're like, I'm kind of nervous, right? It's like. Or like, you know, I was just backstage and I was just thinking, myself, man, hope I don't fuck this up. You know, like, make a joke. Yes. There's always a way to not talk yourself off the ledge, but decrease the perceived severity of the consequences of fucking up. Because it's like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Yeah, right? Like, you mess it Up. So what, next time you do better, what's the best thing that can happen? Like, you help somebody, right? You save some. You never know. Like, I've had so many people be like, wow, like, you literally just saved my life with what you just said. I'm like, wow, interesting. A week ago, I thought, like, I wasn't helping anybody. You know, it's like, so as long as we keep showing up and doing the things that we know to do, even if we're scared of it, we're doing our duty.

Jeff, there's like five or six Twitter quotes that you've dropped that are bars of gold. So these shownotes are going to be epic. And as we taper down here, man, I want to ask you this question about this personal vendetta that I think sometimes people feel when it comes to resistance. You know, Pressfield says in his book that resistance does not have a personal, personal vendetta against anyone. Rather, it is simply trying to accomplish its only mission to keep things the same. That is a big one. Because everything we've explored is around truly looking at why the resistance is there, what it actually means, and how can we support ourselves with courage and accountability to get through it. But I do think that it's worth noting sometimes I might feel you might feel somebody with us in this podcast, they might feel like this is personal. It's like this resistance feels so fucking personal that it can't be that anyone else feels this. It has to be just me that feels this way. You know, there's a certain psychological underpinning to that. And I'm curious how you feel about that and how you work with people that might feel that this resistance is personal, you know, like a personal vendetta.

Yeah. I think behind that too though, is that, like, my situation is special and my situation is unique. Like, nobody else experiences this but me. And I cannot, honestly. I mean, I'm just doing it on the spot, but I cannot think of any time where that is actually true. It's just not true. It can't possibly be true. Everybody experiences resistance, fear, and it's not personal, Right? So it's like it could feel that way because it was imposed from others at some point in time. So it could feel like an attack against, but it could also be self imposed. Like so many times beating ourselves up for not showing up, or so many times feeling disappointed because we said we were going to do something and we didn't. But I think the easiest way out of feeling backed in a corner by anything is to get it out in the open. So that's why I say, tell on yourself. It's just like, everybody needs people. I was one of those folks too, who was like, I don't need people. I don't need this, I don't need that. Fuck that, man. That's such bullshit. It's like, people need people, right? The same circuits that work and the runner's high and that same feedback loop is the same with connection. Connection fuels us as humans. So shame, blame, guilt, any of those seemingly negative emotions can only exist in darkness. So just get that shit out into the light.

Jeff. I'm thinking of, like, the nutrients. It's funny, you're a macrobiotic chef and you help people heal, and there's this really cool connection I just made. The nutrients that we get in food, the nutrients that we get in water, it's the same with human connection. Like, if I'm lacking, if I'm nutrient deficient in human connection, it's just a matter of time before I become sick, and then there's no way I'm going to be able to overcome any kind of resistance, achieve any kind of dream. I think at the base of this conversation, and really even how you and I became friends and why we do our podcast is this thirst, this. This real hunger for the connection of what the hell we're doing here. You know, like, what. What is this life all about? Why are we here on the planet? And I just come all the way back, especially when I've done, like, different plant medicine ceremonies or just had challenges in life, when I get beat down to my knees and there's nothing else to focus on, it's like the only thing that's there is love. That's it. You know, Even when we go through adversity or even when we get stabbed with the sword of it, and, like, the only thing that we bleed out is gratitude, and it's gratitude for just being here, just the actual fact that we're here. Where do you go when you get beat down to your knees? What's your awareness when life's challenges are so hard that you question whether or not you should be here or why we're here in the first place?

Great question. I remember I was in a men's group a little while back, and my friend at the time who was leading the men's group was asking everyone a question, like, what's your superpower? And I said something to the effect of, like, man, I can just love the shit out of God. Like, I can just love Creator, Source, all that is like to no end. So like, I know for me, I think it's just over the years of. I mean, I had a very colorful past, like drug addiction, all kinds of crazy stuff. Never went through like formal sobriety or whatever, so to speak, but haven't touched anything in years. And for me, I just kind of like go to this place where I just, it's almost like I feel, I go to my heart and then I feel from there. It's like I touch in, like touching the bottom of the pool and then springing up and it's almost like I feel like I balloon out and I just feel like overwhelmed with love, right? I just like feel like I get this shit eating grin on my face and just like, like my eyes are smiling and it's just like I can just feel this overwhelming sense of embrace and connection and almost just like the source of being. And it just feels like no matter what, as long as I stay there, it's all going to be good.

I'm thinking about the biological reward of faith and that reward when we tap into the higher power, whether it's God or however anyone wants to describe it. And let's face it too, Jeff, some people, they just refuse to believe that there is something higher, that there is something all knowing, all being omnipresent. But I really believe in this. And it's the first time I had heard of it. You know this phrase you mentioned, biological reward of faith. I think that can be just as healing, just as nourishing our connection to a higher power as it is when you and I connect in a community. You know, what are the, what are the advantages to believing in something higher than ourselves?

A sense of belonging, number one. Right. It's like most people are overwhelmed or anxious because I've got to do it all on my own, right?

Yep.

I need more time. I can't do this. I've got so much to do. It's all I, I, I, I, I, I, I. Right. So believing that there's something greater so you don't have to go it alone. And you know, I don't. I'm not like, you know, I grew up, I went to Catholic school for like 13 years. I actually have. My great, great uncle was canonized for sainthood. So I actually have like a saint in my family, which is kind of crazy, but like, I'm not religious by any means, but I definitely feel like a massively deep connection to something or somewhere, someone. I'm not sure what that is, but I know that for Me and anybody else I know who is of strong faith in any way, shape, or form, there is this just infinite presence that emanates, and it's just this feeling that I don't know why anybody would not want to feel that way.

I look at the intelligence it takes to build the life that you have and everything that you've gone through. And even recently, with your shifts and pivots around separation and divorce and this concept of emotional resilience. We covered a lot of ground, Jeff, on this podcast, man. So everyone, go through this show again and listen to it if you felt those heart flutters that we were talking about. But my last question for you is, at the center of all these different parts, you yourself describe yourself as this mystical with the practical and an amalgamation of 10 years of studying. So you weave this mystical and practical together, and I think that is spiritual. I think that's the higher connection. But on top of that, there's also the physical intelligence, the running, the eating, the moving, the sleeping, and then there's the emotional, which is what we dove into a ton on this show. In the center of that, man, there's the nexus. There's. What exactly is wellness? Like, what. What exactly is wellness? Like, how are we living our life well? And how would you describe that? You know, the combination of all three. What's your definition of wellness?

I think we have to define it, bro. Like, I really, really do. The more. I was on a run yesterday, and I'm actually recovering. I have an old knee injury that flared up from the rock climbing days back in the day, and it's. It's good now. Like, I started running again a couple weeks ago. I was coming up the hill yesterday and I was thinking about this. I'm like, words. I love words. And they're a great holographic representation of where we are in belief, thought, and being. But also, we get to define all of this stuff for us. So for me, wellness is. It's so funny because I love words, but it's like, for me, wellness is being able to well up with that feeling I described earlier. That's wellness for me, right at the base. Also, for me, wellness, my definition at this current moment in time is knowing that, like, I can throw my sneakers on and run out the front door and stop when I feel like it. That may be 20 miles, that may be 50 miles. That may be whatever wellness is being able to. On the mental health, wellness side, being able to close my computer, leave my phone in my office, and take my daughter and go play for hours and not even think about anything other than like the smile on her face, the glimmer in her eyes, and whatever goofy crap we're up to. All of those contributing factors. For me, wellness is something that transcends the plate. Like I said, the plate of food. Because I feel like so many of us are focused on the physical that we forget about the emotional, we forget about the spiritual, we forget about people. Physical meaning consuming food or just exercise or just those things. It's like, like wellness is the full picture of what I believe contributes to me being well. Right. That means I'm patient. That means I'm not snapping at somebody and taking things out of context. It means I can put my head on the pillow at night knowing that I served the shit out of my clients today. That's me knowing that I was on an enrollment call and instead of trying to sell somebody, I served the ever loving crap out of them. And they're ultra clear on what to do, whether they work with me or somebody else. So it's like it ends up being a longer conversation, which works for me because I love to talk honestly. Like, I could talk all day long. I know you were probably the same, we're telling you, but it's like, exactly. So it's like I'll talk all day long. Even now you can't see me, but like, I'm waving my hands around it, laughing at myself. I'm like, I feel like I'm conducting a symphony over here, which I am. But anyways, it's like just conversations might become longer, but they're also going to become more meaningful. Instead of just being like, I'll do this instead of being short people, be meaningful people.

Wow. So many gems, Jeff. And if people are feeling that little spark or maybe big spark of inspiration to work with you, to reach out to you, jeffagustinelli.com is the website. It's going to be linked in our show notes page. But what did we miss, man? What did we miss? For somebody that's having a hard time slaying the dragon of resistance?

I mean, just my heart to yours, you know, like, if you're having a tough time, like, just know you're not alone. And everyone struggles. Doesn't matter what they look like on social media. Everyone's got their shit and everyone's shit stinks, even if they say it doesn't. Even if they have poo pourri, right?

Like, it's still Tony Robbins takes a shit for sure.

Yeah, exactly. So it's like, just know you're not alone. And just know all you got to do is reach out. Even if it's a friend, family member and there's nothing to be embarrassed about, right? So it's like if you want to connect, if this resonated with you and you want to connect, come, you know, I got do plenty of stuff on Instagram, on Facebook, on the podcast, on my website and tune in. And if it resonates on a deeper level, just reach out and we'll have a conversation. And if I feel I can help you achieve what you want to achieve or like overcome anxiety, overwhelm and really get past resistance because that's honestly like the slippery little bitch of them all, then reach out and we'll have a conversation.

And we're going to be talking about you more in WellnessForce group@wellnessforce.com group. Jeff, thank you for what you do in the world, man. Because it's more than just creating resilience. It's creating that, well, like you described, you know, that, that well inside of us where we actually have the capacity to be resilient, the capacity to slay the dragon and ultimately I think really, man, just the capacity to love. So thanks for coming on the show, Jeff.

You're super welcome, my man. Thanks for having me.

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