328 Shannon Kaiser | Joy Seeker: How To Let Go of What's Holding You Back

As I talk about in the book Joy Seeker and what I learned and why I have such a relaxed approach to life now, and I'm not trying to control, is because you really get to a place where you recognize the joy is in the journey and that the journey is the reward. And so we're trying so hard to chase these peak moments of our life. And just like you said, you get to it and then the beautiful, gorgeous work. And so if we look at the work, the soul work, as this glorious journey, ultimately it all comes back to your true self, which is the journey, journey to love within yourself. I think it really does come back to releasing the expectations that our life has to look a certain way. So your true self has a better plan, which is relaxing into the journey and making each moment as awesome and miraculous as it can be by just being in the moment fully.

That's Shannon Kaiser, and this is episode 328 of Wellness Force Radio. Wellness Force Radio, where we discover the physical and emotional intelligence to live life well.

You can have the same brain states as someone who's done an hour of meditation every day for 40 years. There's a lot of losses that we go through, so the ability to be able to cope with those losses is very important to build skill in it, because loss will happen. You know, you have to have spiritual courage to really grow spiritually, because if you really want to take guidance from.

Your soul, you have to be ready.

To realize that many of the things that you're asking for guidance on, your ego has some kind of an addiction to or an investment in.

Hey, what's up, podcast world? It's Josh Trent and you've made it. Welcome to Wellness Forest. Congratulations. I don't say that lightly either. Congratulations for taking this little slice of time for yourself. In a world where everyone is full, everybody's busy. Just the act of listening to a podcast like you're doing right now, this is an act of self love. So I'm stoked you love you because I love me too. And welcome. Because in this episode, we're learning even more about what it means to love ourselves from a best selling author of five books. This woman's wrote five books. This is a lot for anyone for one human. But she's done it in style. She's been learning and discovering and sharing about her lessons on the psychology of happiness and fulfillment, including being a number one international bestseller of the self love experiment and adventures for your soul. And her new book, which we're talking about called Joy Seeker. This is an international Life coach, a speaker and a retreat leader, and somebody that empowers people to trust and believe in themselves so they can live to their highest potential. This is the one and only Shannon Kaiser. Shannon and I love wellness tools. My absolute favorite wellness tool that I'm super geeking out on right now is Cured Full Spectrum Organically Farmed hemp. Now, cbd. It's most commonly incorporated into wellness regimens to improve sleep and decrease inflammation and essentially reduce the body's stress load to make you feel better. Well, cannabidiol is one of over 100 natural compounds from the cannabis plant, but not the one that gets you high. Nobody's getting high, okay? This is actually not getting you high. This is getting you relaxed. I can attest to this. My data from my Oura ring and my personal experience with this Cured product, this Full Spectrum hemp, is that it is the best of the best. If you've been curious about using CBD for your wellness, look, no place other to feel better on your body, especially in your sleep, give it a test drive. Everybody that I've turned this onto, my family, my friends, everybody in the Wellness Force community, they've given me either like a hug or a high five or a message because of how good this Cured Full Spectrum organically Farmed hemp actually is. They also give you the hookup because they're part of the family. Wellnessforce.com cured cured use the code wellnessforce. Get 15% off. 15% off is a great deal. Wellnessforce.com cured share that code with somebody that you love, somebody that possibly deals with poor sleep or inflammation, and it also helps to support this podcast. Joe and our friends over at Cured absolutely love our podcast. This is why they give you the hookup. Wellnessforce.com cured use the code wellnessforce because you're here with us on this podcast and in this podcast, we're learning from Shannon about creating the kind of life you actually want to live, not the one that your parents or society has deemed for you. We talk about your relationship with money, how to reframe this for the sustainable path, and how to actually let go of control. The white knuckling aspect. We'll talk about how to enjoy the journey and navigate peak moments of our life, and most importantly, how to create safety within oneself, creating that trusting north star inside of yourself. We also talk about rejection and how the psyche works when it comes to rejection. We'll explore emotional intelligence and trauma, and also a concept that's fascinating. Shannon calls this nourishing, the nudge, that little guidepost you feel sometimes it's a big one. It directs you to your dream. Well, this is the way. This is the path. Cultivating that courage to follow it is the most important thing. And that's really what it's all about, is living from these little guideposts, sometimes big, that direct you to when you feel the most alive. Honestly, when do you feel the most alive? Check in with yourself. When do you feel the most alive? It's when you're following these nudges that she talks about. I love this. I love Shannon. She gives us practical tools in this podcast and how to create this life of joy. That's why she wrote her book Joy Seeker, and that's why she's on Wellness Force right here, right now. Shannon Kaiser, welcome to Wellness Force.

Hi. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

How exciting is it that here we are, February 2020, we're in this futuristic year 2020. Wasn't this where George Jetson had, like, some breakthrough himself? Remember the Jetsons, the cartoon?

I always think of that because, like, I'm. I'm always telling friends and family, I'm like, we are so in the future. When you watch Back to the Future, this is the. Was the year 2020. It really was. Like, I think the hoverboards. And we're living it now, so we think of that all the time.

We're in the future. I have been looking forward to this podcast since last year. You know, 2019. You and I connected, actually, it's really cool. We connected through the medicine. And when I say the medicine, I mean the joy that is found in sacred plants. And it's been such a pleasure to study your work. And we're going to talk about Joy Seeker and your book and everything else that's going on. But I got to ask you, like, what is top of mind for you right now? Like, what are you most excited about for 2020?

You know, it's so amazing. And I love that you brought up that we connected through the medicine because that really has been such a transformational journey, and it's changed the way I approach life and the way I really feel as I. Especially in 2020, as we enter forward, it's this regrouping, but more of an al. And I feel more balanced than I ever have and more at peace within myself, which means, therefore, everything outside of me is a reflection of that. And so it's really. I know our outside world is a reflection of our internal state. So instead of the differences, I used to try to Control my business and try to work really hard to make things happen, do, do, do. And now it's about just kind of coming back within self. And so it's changed the way I teach, it's changed my writing, and it's really allowed me to open up into ultimately an ultimate inner pe.

What I feel from you, not just in your media, your Instagram, your book. We got a lot of ground to cover here, Shannon. Like, let's get to it. We do.

What I.

What I feel from you the most is this concept of joy. You know, you have the Reclaim youm Joy access to mini course on your website. We'll link that in the show notes. You also have just this message of playing with the world, which I think is powerful. We had a goppy on the show and she wrote this book about really the joy is within us at all times. And so I'm curious how you would even define joy. That word is thrown around a lot in our industry. You know, just. Just be joy, find the joy, blah, blah, blah. But what does joy actually mean to you?

It's so true. And I feel I used to be on that side of it where I was like, oh, stop talking about joy. It seems so hard to get to because I used to be. I was diagnosed with depression. I was addicted to drugs. I was in a completely different place. And then I went on this spiritual journey and this personal path and it was actually about three years ago and I had been a self help author and a writer and a very successful one of a coach. And my dog died. And he was a rescue dog. And I remember when he died, I fell into this deep depression and I recognized that I was still putting joy outside of myself. And that's when I told myself I need to learn how to rely on, not rely on anything outside of myself and find the joy within. And it led me to really a whole entire year of dedicating to joy through grief, through trauma, through overcoming and looking at my shadow side and really understanding that joy can ex within us, always and around us. Because it's not something we chase, it's something we bring forth. It's something we allow. So to me, joy is an experience of life. It's our birthright. It is a foundational aspect to being here on earth. We came here, we are here to be joy. And sometimes we mistake joy with happiness. And I think happiness is fleeting. And happiness is also a feeling that can go away, whereas joy is a state of being.

Okay, let's pause right there because that's the first mic drop moment, joy and happiness. Some people get those confused because I feel like I'm in the same camp as you where happiness is fleeting. It's like a lot of people say, my goal in life is just to be happy, when really, I don't think that's realistic. Life is going to present challenges that pull us out of happiness in a quick minute. So having joy as a baseline, how do we do that then? How do we. What are some of the tools that we can do to use joy as a fuel source that lead us to happiness?

Yes, and that's exactly it. Joy can become our baseline, and it's a foundation for everything we do. One of the very first tools, which I loved before we started this podcast, is you said, what are you grateful for, Shannon? Gratitude is the life force of everything. And I talk about that in my Joy Seeker book, and it's the foundation. It helped me overcome my depression. It can help us in any point of our life when we just, instead of focusing on what is not going well, on what is causing us distress, disease, frustration, we can just focus on what we appreciate. Just focus one, one by one, one moment by moment on what you appreciate. Start with a gratitude practice. That's a great tool. We hear it a lot, especially in the wellness and spiritual community. But I feel like gratitude then can open you up to awareness, which is self awareness. I feel self awareness is really important, which is about understanding who you are and what you are made for. Yes, we're all made for great, awesome things, but sometimes we get caught up in the pursuit of I need to find my pur. Have to know what I must do.

Yes, yes, yes.

I got stuck in that. You know, I was there for sure, and it was like, I feel lost unless I know what I'm going to do for a living. This was before when I was in advertising, and it causes even more stress. And so if we just reframe that to shift our perspective to our purpose is to actually live more on purpose. And if we do this in each moment and we're more intentional about each step we take, each moment we kind of move through our life, then what it is that's revealed to us is our passion. You and I get to what we love for a living because we're so passionate about it. But we're more than just what we do. And I think sometimes in the wellness community and in the community, we get stuck on thinking and defining ourselves by our job titles and by what we do and what we're contributing. So I think the important thing is to know that if you're living in your heart, you're making a difference by being true to yourself. And that itself can help inspire others. It's about being of service to others as well.

One of the concepts we always explore on the show is intelligence. And as you know, through medicine or just through your own journey, intelligence ain't how smart you are. Right. It's like intelligence is our ability to gather information, to try it on, to apply it. And then lastly, Shannon, which certain qualities you do? It's embodiment. So gathering, application and embodiment. So what comes up for me when I look at your work? It's five books you've written now, right? Or is it six books?

Yeah, five books.

Working on the sixth through five books.

Secret, Secret.

Through five books, and then. And then writing your sixth book, I can only imagine that you have gathered quite the bit of information. But what is the difference for you personally, as someone who speaks and writes at this intersection of psychology and happiness and fulfillment, how have you crossed the gap between gathering information and actually applying it and embodying it?

Oh, I love this question, because that is my process and that's how I teach and learn. And every book comes through basically a mini kind of hero's journey, if you will, which is what you just described. And so it starts with kind of a pivotal moment in my life where I really recognize that. And it's true. We've seen the meme. I think it goes around social media. Every next level of yourself will require a next level of you.

Yes.

And so I think that's interesting because that's what happens for me. I get to a point and it's about letting go of the past, you or the version that you're holding onto so you can grow into a more authentic version. So I write to writing is really my therapy. And I think that's why I'm so prolific, because I'll be writing articles or I'll be writing books and content, and as I write the stories, I tend to, up until the last book, wrote about what I needed to learn. So Joy Seeker is all about authentic living and being unapologetic about who you are. It's really about giving yourself permission to live this life, despite what the world says you should do and how you should be. And so each time I go deeper into that, then naturally it's part of embodying it. And I think what's happening, what we're seeing today in the world, is so much of the people feeling like they have to be something or do something that just to fit into the world. And we're trying so hard and we're wearing these masks, but no one's. Especially with the social media culture. But we're not really giving ourselves permission to say, wait a second, am I even hanging out with people I really want to be with? Does this really feel good? And so a powerful question you can ask yourself is, what kind of life do I really want to live? And what do I want to create? And are my current actions, Is my current situation aligned with that? And if not, just be willing to look at it and let go.

I love this question. What kind of life do I really want to live? Because it's backwards for what most people might think. You know, the concept of be, do have, which I'm sure you know about and we've talked about on the show, if I have the money, then I'll be happy. You know, like, what about the question here? What kind of life do I really want to live is actually the starting point? Why does that make it the starting point rather than how much money should I make or who should I be friends with or where should I travel? Like, what is it about this question, what kind of life do I really want to live that makes it the starting point?

I think we forget sometimes that we get to create our own reality. And I really feel that sometimes we get stuck into the illusions of life and the world and the fear and the manipulation, the control. And so we just start autopiloting forward and we start hustling and we start working really hard, and then we burn out. And then we get into this cycle and it's constant. I know I went through it for almost 10 years of running my own business, and I got to a place where I said, wait a second. What if there is another way? What if I returned to my true self and really asked her, what does she need to thrive? And then you start there. Because, honestly, it's not about chasing that money. We think when we get these things, the soulmate, the dream job, you know, the perfect goal, weights or whatever, the optimal health, all of this is so important. But when we get it, almost always, if you look at your life, you realize it's fleeting and you're onto the next thing. So it's like all of a sudden, what we really want to look at is that internal part of that part of us that feels like we're not good enough or that part of us that feels like we have to keep proving ourselves. Once we address that Part, then all of the things you want come so much easier. That beautiful body, the abundance flows. You don't even have to think about money. You have so much, you can give it away. It's like a reversal process, but it's actually the most beautiful part of living because you do get to create your own reality if you're intentional about your life.

Yeah. Creating your own reality. Amen. Because I found my soulmate, and that's when a new level of work began that I didn't even know was possible. You know what I mean?

Yes.

Just because. Just because we get the thing that we want. Whether it's like this much money in the bank or this person in our life or this kind of a lifestyle, for me, it's been a reckoning where I've gotten a lot of the things that I wanted. And I realized, wow, when I got to the top of this mountain, I had no idea that I'd be looking at another one. And I think this is a recurring thing in our lives. So when you say true self, you mentioned this a lot in your work. The true self has an easier plan, and it's aching to show you the way. What is the true self? Like, what do you mean by that?

Yeah. So the true self is our authentic self. It's. It's our alignment with source energy or our higher power or love, our alignment with. With our connection to all of what makes us feel good. And so if you think about it, it's just like you in the. As I talk about in the book Joy Seeker and what I learned and why I have such a relaxed approach to life now and I'm not trying to control and things happen gracefully, is because you really get to a place where you recognize the joy is in the journey and that it's a Chinese proverb that the journey is the reward. And so we're trying so hard to chase these peak moments of our life. And just like you said, you get to it. And then the work happens again. The beautiful, gorgeous work. And so if we look at the work, the soul work, as this glorious journey, ultimately it all comes back to your true self, which is the journey to love within yourself. And that's what you're doing through your relationship and your beautiful soulmate and your process of traveling the world and all of the work that you're doing in the world. It's so beautiful because all of us are on this journey. And so I think it really does come back to releasing the expectations that our life has to be these peak moments or Releasing that we think it has to look a certain way so your true self has a better plan, which is relaxing into the journey and making each moment as awesome and miraculous as it can be by just being in the moment fully.

Oh, my God, Shannon. There's like, five things to unpack, but I'm just going to go one at a time here. When you say the easier plan, the true self has the easier plan. Is it really easier? Because, like, sometimes when things are considered easy, they're considered less valuable. I don't know if that's always the case. Like, do you really think that the true self has the easier plan?

So it's interesting because I believe that it's hard work. And so when you get to this ultimate level of authenticity, a lot of times, like, it's going to hit the fan. You're going to have moments of coming to your knees. You're going to have deep insecurity, resurrections, basically, lots of moments of clarity. But the easier part is knowing that you feel more secure and safe in that experience. I felt so lost before I found my true self. And I was leaning on drugs and I was leaning on food and spending money and sex and all these things outside of myself. The easier plan is the one that you know that you're connected to yourself and you are your best friend and you're guiding yourself through it. So it doesn't mean that it's void work. Oh, gosh, you will go through the work, but the work is so much more rewarding.

The work is going to happen either way. Right? Because on one side of the coin, if you're not going the path of awakening, if you're not going the path of identifying, connecting, loving the true self, then there's really hard work with that. Because on a subconscious level, that true self is constantly trying to surface. Then on the other side, when you're going to the path of loving yourself, there's work there, too. It's like fucking work on both sides. Let's just be honest.

Let's be honest.

I'd at least rather go to the one where the work on the side towards the true self is bringing me more to peace, more to wholeness, more to who I am. Can you share with us as deep as you're called to go, this path of true self? You mentioned drugs and sex, and these are all things that millions and millions of people deal with. So can you shine light on that path and that story for us?

Yeah, it's interesting because I found myself before I came to this work and Before I really stepped into passion work that let me up, I was in advertising, and I was climbing the corporate ladder, and I hated myself. I couldn't look in the mirror.

Was it like Mad Men or was it worse?

It's a lot like that, actually. Even though it was in the 90s and the 2000s, it's great. It was like that. A little bit different. But it's interesting because I would cry myself to sleep every single night, and I thought that's what every single person did. But I was also numb from the painkillers, and I was just always on something to numb me from life. And I went to the doctor, and she diagnosed me with depression. And I remember thinking, this isn't the person that I really am. But I felt like I was living this alternate reality, this mask I was wearing. And I went and cried on the bathroom floor that night. And an inner voice. It wasn't an inner voice. It was actually the first time that I ever felt I was crying profusely and all around me, I felt this calm. My tears turned in, like they, like, sucked back into my face almost. And I heard my inner voice. But really, I think it was like God or the angels or something way bigger than me. And it said, shannon, there's a better way. Follow your heart. And that sounds so trite and true, but at that time, I was like, what? Just follow my heart and I'll be happy? What does that mean? And I had never asked myself, what does the real me want? Like, I was so busy living what I thought was expected of me, you know? And so I got to this place in my own journey where I said, okay, well, what do I want? And that changed everything. Giving myself to admit it and then take action on it. And I often say, now, a lot of times, we have these goals and these dreams, and we're looking forward. No matter where you are on your spiritual or wellness journey, you always are looking ahead at something you want. And sometimes we get overwhelmed, like, how am I going to get there? And for me, the best thing was the how is in the now. And the idea of just taking one step at a time. Right now is all I have. Tomorrow is not determined, so what can I do now? But the biggest mantra that really helped me is, we learn the way on the way. And that was profound for me because I recognized that each step I took gave me more clarity and more confidence. And so I didn't know I wanted to be a writer or do all of the teaching and the retreats that I do now. Or be a self love teacher. Like, I didn't know all that, but I took one step at a time. And it led to this beautiful, gorgeous career in life.

So when you're on the floor crying in the bathroom, was it deep, deep sadness, or was it actually the true self trying to emerge?

That is probably the best question anyone's ever asked me.

I'm just visualizing in the bathroom. I'm like, what was it? Because we've all been there. Everybody's been on a bathroom floor once crying their face off.

Yeah, it was definitely a releasing. So it was the true self emerging. And what was so beautiful about that bathroom breakdown, more than any of the ones before, because, you know, they lead up to it, is that I gave myself permission to release. And so there was sadness there I was letting go of an identity that I was carrying around for so long and this mask I was wearing. So it became like, okay, let's open up to the possibilities of who you really can be in this world and who you're meant to be. And. And that was kind of the beginning of everything. Of my real self, I feel like, was born that day.

Oh, my God. This thing you said right when you said it, I immediately wrote it down. And I'm gonna let it land for all of us here. We learn the way on the way. Like, let's just pause for a moment. That right there is a biggest piece, is the biggest piece of truth you're gonna hear today. Because I think all of us feel like unless we have the plan, unless we've connected the dots, then we can't move forward. But it's such the fucking opposite. We move forward and we connect the dots. It's the other way around, Shannon.

Yes, it is. It is. And that's why we hang up and we stay stuck and we get trapped. And then we just feel like we're losers, but we're not at all. Take a step. One step. And as you move forward, it's like, oh, my gosh. And the more. It's so beautiful because the more kind of guided action you take, it's very important, guided action. Not just like throwing stuff, because that's where the hustling comes in, where you're just pushing, pushing. But when you're really intentional and aligning with what feels good, what's aligned with your truth, that moves mountains. That is really the beautiful part. So, yes, we learn the way on the way. Like, tattoo it on your binders. I was gonna say your skin.

Put it on your lower back. No. So this Concept of guided action. I really like this because there can be this incessant energy, and I don't know where it comes from. Maybe you do. Where in all of us that want to create something, we feel like we should, quote, always be doing something. I mean, I've fallen victim to this many times where I'm like, I can't just enjoy where I am, because in the back of my mind, I'm like, I gotta write that customer journey email. I gotta make sure I do this, I gotta do that. Like, what is going on there for us? How do we take a breath, remove ourselves from that, and go more into guided action rather than incessant, manic action?

Yes. And I went through this in my own business, too. I think we all do, right? Whether you run your own business or not, it's part of the human condition. But we've heard it before, human beings. So what I started to do was we're not human doings, right? So I started to actually create a practice, a morning practice and an evening practice that would give me some space in my day to really connect to me. And sometimes we have what I like to call my mentor, Summer Bacon calls seasons of the Soul. Like, she even wrote a book called Seasons of the Soul. So. So what it is, is we all have just, like, nature. The native Indians knew this, right? And our ancient ancestors knew this. Like, if you look at the seasons of nature, there is, you know, summer, and there's harvest, and then there's winter, and there's this dormancy, and there's these leaves falling out, and it's cold. We have that too. And we think we need to hustle and work through that. But if we do ourselves a service by relaxing, being just meditating, spending more time with loved ones, just kind of hanging out in that time, you're regrouping for the next phase. And I started to do this in my business last year because I used to freak out when things weren't going forward at the same pace as they were or whatever. Like you said, always doing. And it opened up to the most amazing experiences. Not only did it give me, like, great downloads for the next book that I didn't even know I was gonna write, but all kinds of creative projects. Like, it opened me up romantically to call in more, like, romance. Like, such beautiful things that if I was doing, I never would have had the space to allow myself to be able to receive.

You know, one of the things I loved in Joyseeker is the joy jaunts. You know, these exercises where People can really just break out of their comfort zone. How did you come up with the joy jaunt? What's that all about for you?

Well, it's interesting because I feel like. So a jaunt is like a kind of like a experience that you go on.

It seems like a little skip, like we're skipping outside or something.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah, right. Skip down. I actually did that when I was writing the book. Like I started skipping down the street. And so a joy jaunt is really about. And there's lots of them. This book is full of tools, it's full of journal exercises, it's full of the tools. And the joy jaunts are different experiences that tie into the lesson presented. So one of the joy jaunts is to express yourself more fully. Maybe say something to someone that you've been biting your tongue. Maybe go out in the world and put on an outfit that you never really thought you'd wear but you wanted to, or put your hair a certain way. It's really about different ideas, but self expression, being who you really are and not being afraid of the world and being rejected by the world or not feeling like we fit in. Because the thing is there's these joy busters, things that block us from joy. But when you give yourself the time, the space, the energy, the kind of permission to do things that you really want to do. Like one of the joy jaunts is to say no. Like how often, especially for women, we say yes all the time when really we just want to say no.

A lot of men too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because we care and we over give. So it really is about, you know, just being you. Permission to unauthentically shine your gorgeous light and be you.

You know, the unauthentically you. This word authenticity, it's not just something that like Levi 501 jeans promoted. Which was a brilliant, it's a brilliant marketing campaign by the way, with your marketing background. Sure. But I think about that word authenticity sometimes for many people, being authentic, like speaking authentically, just being themselves, it is literally the hardest thing to do because when they grew up, their parents probably compressed and suppressed that authentic self. So was that the case for you? Like what was your parents influence on your authenticity in your life?

I think we all have experiences from our childhood and that's, you know, that's what we. That's why I take people through in Joy Seeker. And it's interesting because for me I had a great childhood, very loving. But my parents were never there because they worked so hard and we moved a lot. And they were both entrepreneurs running businesses. And we moved like four different times in a period of three years. So I was at different schools and I was always made fun of and I remember getting bullied and I remember coming home. And at age 9, my insecurity, my eating disorders started because no one was actually there. But when they did get there, like three hours later, there was a lot of love, but it wasn't enough. There's always something everyone goes through when we're children. And sometimes what I see, and I noticed this when I was at Rythmia and it's interesting because we go through these experiences where you get to revisit your past and you see these traumas, right? And it's interesting because it's like, oh my gosh, I'm looking at it. But what I notice is sometimes people subconsciously feel either that my trauma is too much of a burden for others, so I'm going to bury it, or the opposite is kind of like, I have so much trauma that I'm wounded, I'm broken. So we identify with it, but we don't actually look at it. Important thing is to give yourself permission to feel it so you can heal it. And once you do feel it, you realize that these emotions are stored in our bodies. And so the kid making fun of me and laughing at me and calling me stupid and fat, I stored that in my body. And that's why as adults we're walking around sometimes giving triggered when we're in a new relationship and someone says something and we freak out, it wasn't even about them.

Yep, I'm raising my hand right now. Shannon.

Yes, yes, Double hands over here. Right. So it's so important to be compassionate with yourself. And that's where self love comes in. And recognize that you're not alone. Every single person on planet earth has their own version of a childhood trauma. And for us to compare our traumas, like, oh, well, you went through something. Trauma is trauma. Whether you just were living left at home because you had entrepreneur parents or you were like in some serious conditions, it hurts us to our core. And so what we want to do is recognize that those experiences don't define us. And that is where the self love comes in. And we heal it by recognizing we can be who we really are instead of who we said we were based on those experiences. Because when those experiences happened, we created a false identity of I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, no one's going to love me the way I am. So we can shatter those identities and really come forward and say, no, I'm worthy, I'm beautiful, I'm a person of value on this planet.

What did the medicine show you this pastime?

Oh, gosh, it was a big one. So it's interesting because my whole entire. So I have gone to Rythmia three times, and that's a beautiful experience for me. And I've done the plant medicine there, and it was profound. The third time because. Because you have opportunity to share after some of the journeys. And I had never shared, ever, and I was pretty private. But this last time, I even made a point in my journey. It was like, you better share this, you better share this, you better share this. And why I say that and why it's so interesting is because all my life, literally for like 37 years, I felt like I was on the outside looking in. Even when I was, like, in popular crowds and leading all kinds of stuff, I always felt like I didn't fit in. Something was wrong with me. The journey took me back to the very first day of my life, the very first hour I was born. My belief was created that you don't belong, you don't fit here. Because I was actually two months premature. And I went back to. No one's going to believe in their rational state the first year of their life. But the medicine took me back to the whole experience of being born two months premature, weighing only three pounds, popping out of my mom. Like, I saw it, I felt it. I was there and racing me before my parents had a chance to see me, to, like, all these ICUs, I was poked, I was put into a plastic box. For the first two months of my life, the only way I had physical contact was through plastic gloves, because it was like early 80s. And so I remember in the medicine, I looked out and I saw the doctors talking, and I saw them talking to my parents. I saw them looking in there. And I created the belief that you are damaged. That's why you're here and everyone else is there. So what was so amazing about this experience? Who would have known that this could be possible? But it was still something I was carrying in my body. The adult self, me, came and shattered the box with, like, this beautiful hammer. The glass fell and I picked little me up and I brought her back. So I merged my soul. And it was just this very profound experience because I no longer carry that identity that I'm outside looking in and I don't belong here and something's wrong with me. I think that's the Power of what we do when we do our shadow work and we go deeper into our true selves.

My heart had just exploded listening to your story.

Thank you.

Yeah. Because I literally could see you behind the container. And it runs deep for me, because we had Mark Wolin on the show three months ago, and he explores trauma from the amygdala perspective, where when we're that young, it's actually an amygdala memory. It's a physiological memory that's stored in our tissue deep in the reptilian brain. So what made me shake and made my heart explode when you said that is. Because that's my story. I was premature. My girlfriend was premature. We both were in an incubator when we were born, and so were you.

Oh, my gosh.

And so I'm think I'm thinking about this, and I'm like, huh? If we're trying to come into the world and the world is an unsafe place, how could we ever ignore that that would replicate and that would unfold as we become adults? There's just no way to ignore it, whether you're a logical person or a spiritual person. So there's. So then for you, this reckoning. I mean, seriously, it's like an emotional moment just listening to you. When you shattered the glass, like, what did that feel like?

Freedom. It was so amazing because it was freedom. And as I picked the little, little me up and hugged her, it was this connection of coming back together and knowing that that was all an illusion. That belief that I was carrying around was a false belief and an illusion, and I didn't even know that it was harming all of my relationships and causing toxic beh. But all of us have these experiences, and. Oh, my God, you're a preemie, too.

Like, oh, yes, I was less than five pounds.

Oh, my gosh. See, that's what happens. We don't equate it back to that young of a life because it's like, okay, no big deal. Like, a lot of preemies live in this world, but it does affect us emotionally, you know, and so it's beautiful. Now you can talk to your girlfriend about it.

I'm just amazed by your story because so many people go through a medicine journey and they receive what's called a nada, which is nothing.

Yeah.

But it seems like for you, it was that third time that really brought it home. So were the other two times, you think, setting you up for this third. Third vision.

You know, I believe the medicine meets us where we are, and it's Interesting, because each time that I went, I was in a very different space in my life. And so I needed to get. It really did set me up for that third time because I was a little confused why I was going back a third time at that time in my life. But it was interesting because the medicine knows, right? I truly believe that. And you're working with her. And so the very first time, I had another profound experience, which was this real kind of coming back to self of realizing that we are love and light. Right. I think everyone gets there at some point. Usually if they continue the medicine or they do the medicine, you realize that everyone is one. And so that was a very special thing. But how do I play into that? What's my role? That's what the next ceremony has kind of led up to. So each one is so special and unique in itself. And I really believe that it's a tool that can help us. What I do find a lot, though, and you may see this too, is sometimes with any tool, I think the real work is that kind of applying what you see and learn in it after. Because the first time there wasn't as much of an implementation and kind of bringing it all back.

You're trying to figure out how to stand on two feet after you get slapped the first time in a ceremony, right? It's like part of you is going, what the hell just happened? The other part of you is like, wait, there were some lessons in there. Let me breathe into those. And then by the second ceremony or the third, it's like, you know, we get to be really careful here. Like, this is one of the, if not the most powerful tools for self development and self awareness. So it's been a year since I've been in a ceremony, and I honestly don't feel called because I'm still recovering from the slap that she gave me last year.

Year.

Like, we don't need to run to these ceremonies. You know, what's your guidance on this? What's your wisdom for people that are listening, that are thinking, you know, they're inspired first of all by your story? Because I don't know how any human being could not feel something in their heart by what you shared. But what about people that have never done it, never done any medicine? What kind of guidance can you give to them?

Oh, I think with the medicine specifically, she calls to you. So if you feel the call, then honor that. But be careful, because I see this happen in the spiritual wellness community. People see other people doing it, and so they get on that Bandwagon. Well, my guru did it or my mentor did it or my best friend just did it, so maybe I should do it. But I think it's really important to go within yourself. I knew that my soul was calling me to it. And how you know is because you almost can't not do it. Everything in your life aligns up to give you the go head to green light to go. But what I meant is that aftermath, that implementation is so important. And it's like with any healing we do, whether you're going on a retreat, whether you're taking time out for like a, you know, wellness week or arrhythmia, anything at all that you're doing, it's so important to allow the work to set in by allowing your life to change with the profound wisdom that has come through after the ceremony, it's so important to integrate. I feel like so often we go to these wellness events or we go to a beautiful retreat, or we do plant medicine, and it's like we feel charged up, and then as soon as we get back, we jump right back into the routine of what we used to do that caused us to want to go in the first place. So the real work with everything and the real joy being in the journey is about allowing yourself to grow with the new things that you learn and letting go of the old version of you. So letting go of what didn't work so you can be who you really are kind of thing.

And, you know, it came up right when I was listening to you share was this concept of courage. Sometimes the path or however you even want to explain it, maybe the medicine is guiding you towards being more courageous before a threshold can be breached. In other words, before somebody goes from what they know to jumping into what they don't know, like a blind leap of faith, they have to summon the courage first. Like spiritual courage. It's in our introduction to this podcast where Paul Check was saying, saying it, in order to have spiritual courage, you have to actually develop yourself to hold that courage. You know, how have you held courage and what's been your path towards courage with the medicine or without?

It's so true. And courage is interesting because I think we don't give ourselves enough. Enough credit in general, because I think just being here, working on a wellness journey, growing in your spiritual journey in itself takes credit. A lot of times we're going against the grain and doing what society thinks is totally wacko, or it's so important to understand that we're. Yeah, totally right. Honestly, when you get To a place where you start doing things you really want to do, too. Like, look, you just were in Sedona, and then you were in Hawaii, and you're doing things. And people in their nine to five are like, what? How are you doing this? So it takes courage to be who you really are, but it is the most freeing thing in the world because you are no longer confined by who you think you should be. And it's like one by one, it's almost like we're an onion. And you, at the core, are always who you are. But you peel off the layers, and those layers are the different levels of you and the different barriers and the blocks. And as you do that, you start to rise up into courage, then becomes your normal way of life. Because it feels so good to be who you are in your true expression of what you want to be and who you are. That. That the courage is no longer. I gotta summon up the courage. Because you know how good it feels to live that authenticity.

Oh, my God. Okay, so that is the guidepost, isn't it? Like, it's the feeling. So feelings and thoughts. Feelings and thoughts for me, and I think for all of us, they tend to come and go, right? It's like they. They blow through the wind and then they blow out of our consciousness. And so this is why. It's why meditation exists. But there are those feelings, like recurring feelings. And I'm not saying recurring thoughts. I'm saying recurring feelings where they make us feel so good that how could they not be a guidepost?

Yes. And that's exactly it. And I say we. I say nourish the nudge. Which is like, keep following those feelings, Keep following those feel good moments, those feel good ideas, and those feel good parts of your life. Think of who. In one of the questions I ask in Joy Seeker, the book is, when do you feel most alive? What are you doing? Who are you with? Maybe you're with yourself, maybe you're not. Maybe with loved ones. Where are you? These are all indicators of what makes you you on an authentic level and what makes you feel so excited. And that's where the courage comes to be that person. So I used to see myself when I very first left advertising. I didn't know what I wanted to do at all. I just knew that I could not go back to that. But I started to entertain the idea of what do I value? What do I really love in life? And I love travel, and I love nature, and I love expressing myself creatively. So I would literally just sit at Night. And I was on unemployment, I was living in my parents basement. But I would visualize myself travel writing and I was in these beautiful beaches. And I kid you not, three months later, after visualizing every day for about five minutes, I was called on my first travel writing assignment. Because that's what I started as a travel writer into the industry. And I remember going to the property at the back, it was in St. Lucia. They called journalists to cover this hotel. And I went to the back of the property and I sat down on the gorgeous white sand warm beach and my jaw dropped to the floor because it was lit to the earth, really, because it was the same scene I saw in my mind visualizing. I had not seen this image on Google. There was the guy Fisher boat, the fisherman on the right, there was the mountain on the left, there were swimmers. And I was like, this is it. And that's when I realized the power of visualization, the power of the courage of letting go of my advertising life so I could be this person. And also really the power of creating our own life. You get to create it, you get to visualize it and believe in it.

I feel like what you just gave us right there, if people would just summon the courage, and this is the question I want to ask you, if they could just summon the courage to follow the last 30 seconds of what you just said, this nourishing, the nudge that you mentioned, how do people summon that courage to follow the nourishing of the nudge? How do they do that?

So that's like I said, the very first thing you can do is visualize just sitting and feel what visualization does. And you know, athletes do it, celebrities, everyone. There's science behind the visualization. What it does is it gives you, it gets you into the state of the feeling of what it feels like to really be there. And your conscious mind honestly doesn't know the difference between the false or the reality. Yeah, if I told you to close your eyes and you're in iceberg like we're in Antarctica and we are falling into the water, you would start to get very cold very fast. Right? And let's go back to Hawaii now, right? Let's soothe ourselves with hot, hot sun. That's the difference. And so the faster when it comes to manifesting the life you really want and stepping into that life you're made for, the courage comes from believing in it and believing in yourself, trusting yourself. And so many of us do not trust ourselves. And so what that looks like is the baby steps of okay, well, what do I know to be true today for me? What do I want? What one step can I take to get there? That's where the how is in the now and the we learn the way come, you know, it's kind of a process. We learn the way on the way, and then you keep focusing on that and soon enough you look back and you go, holy crap, my life is amazing.

You make it sound so simple. Shannon, we know that. Just because it's simple, though, and I've mentioned this a few times, but it's so incredibly true. Just because something is simple and it only takes like 3 seconds, steps or 5 steps doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Like, simple and easy are not the same. Just like joy and happiness. Everybody's going to go to playwith.com they're going to pick up the Joy Seeker book. But I have a few more questions for you because I know somebody is kind of on the edge right here of inspiration. If somebody is literally, like, day one, they've just heard this podcast. They're in their car, they're walking around. Yes. They're going to pick up the book. Is the guidebook. Is the map for this progression of having joy being the fuel source. Is it in the book?

Book.

What else can they do in combination with the book?

Yes. So this, what we've been sharing today is the process in Joy Seeker. It literally is a step by step process of letting go of what's holding you back so you can live the life you're made for and be who you really are. It's like, it could have been called authentic living. Be your true self.

But I like Joy Seeker.

There's a lot of. Yeah, me too.

Right?

We're joy seekers, but. But there's a lot of other things that you can do. But before I say that, I just want to say when you were talking about. Of course we've heard it's hard, it's easy, but it doesn't mean that it's.

It's simple but not easy.

Yeah, yes, yes, that same. So what's interesting is if you really get honest with yourself, like, let's all have a moment right here, everyone listening. And you too, Josh. Of course, if we really got honest, we don't want easy. We would be so bored with easy. We came here to grow into the expansion, the contrast. And we're adventurers. We want to climb the mountain, to conquer. We want to make our life this glorious, grand, great adventure. Or else why are we here if we want easy? Many of us do take the easy route, and it causes us so many health issues. It causes us addictions. It causes us totally unfulfilling relationships and careers. We don't want easy. And I think if we just let go of thinking that it has to be easy, which is what I talk about in Joy Seeker. A limiting belief is that we think it has to look a certain way. And most of us think, think it's supposed to be easy and we're supposed to be happy all the time. As soon as we eradicate that belief, your life becomes this amazing masterpiece, and you get to create what you want. And so that's kind of fun. And that in itself can be a tool because once you let go of that, you start to say, okay, so now I'm going to step into a life that feels intentional and with my intention. What do I want? And so there's. I am a big believer in Monte mantras and journaling. And so part of my morning practice includes I will. So every morning I will wake up before I even hit my feet to the ground. I go through gratitudes, usually list out five. I used to write them down, but now I just say them. I'll do a little cuddle session with my dog, and then what we'll do is we'll go for a nature walk. Nature is so grounding, and it's very therapeutic. And then I'll come back and I'll meditate for at least 15 minutes, and I'll do kind of an exercise to. To connect to my intuition, and then I will journal. And this is a practice that has really allowed me to not only get connected to myself, but help me be a stronger person for myself and my community and for my business and all relationships. So a practice, getting a practice in place, now that's my practice. I think what's important is we hear things like, oh, maybe I should journal. But what you want to do is align with what feels good. So you make that list, the joy list. What brings me joy? When do I feel life? And then you start to create a life around those values.

I'm just. I was closing my eyes when you were speaking that. And I could feel how exciting it would be for anyone to design their own, because so many of us fall into the trap where we have to follow somebody else's plan. It's bullshit. Like, take what resonates, leave the rest. There's. We're not. We're not trying to copy someone else. So, like, take what Shannon said, and I'll take what you Said and I, and I'll reassess. You know we have the M21 guide. It's wellnessforce.com M21. I talk to 300 plus world class people like you, Shannon. And you know what they say? They all say the same core components and that is be in nature, be with yourself, spend time alone, drop into your body. But you know what, Everybody's got a different recipe. Like just because it works for Shannon or Josh doesn't mean that that exact template is going to work for you. Listening. So like take what resonates, leave the rest. Shannon, I just love you. I love your energy. I knew this was going to be great. But the synchronicities that we shared from, you know, being in the incubator and walking a similar path, corporate America and then feeling like Seoul was being decayed to then going to the dream, then you sharing us the parents basement on unemployment. I've been through similar things and I want everyone to know like when Shannon is talking like this, that is your permission slip to do the thing. Do the thing, my friends, do the thing. Because it's going to be scary. It's going to feel like shit. You're going to doubt yourself, you're going to get depressed. But there's gold at the end of the light. There's gold there. And for somebody who's feeling this, Shannon, could you offer them a word of parting guidance or a phrase of parting guidance? As far as a mantra, because you said that mantras for you are really big. If somebody's in a spiral of self out or they may be afraid, is there a mantra that comes up for you there?

Yeah, I think there's a powerful mantra and it's interesting because it can be a whole philosophy of life and it's what is has no bearing on what will be. I choose to go forward in my love and light.

Can you say that one more time?

Yeah. What is has no bearing on what will be. Or you could say what might be. I choose to go forward in my love and life.

Okay guys, rewind that. Listen to it again. Shannon, this has been amazing and just a signature energy that I always love to end conversations with, especially in this exploration of kind of what we're doing here on the planet and how do we do it? Well, what is wellness to you? You know, this physical, spiritual, emotional. If you were to define wellness for Shannon, how would Shannon define, define wellness? What does that mean to live life?

Well, I think wellness is our birthright first and foremost and it's why we're Here it's about authenticity and being who you truly are, spiritually, physically, emotionally and mentally.

Facebook.com Shannon Kaiser writes playwith.com, but like, where do you play the most? It seems like Instagram. You're the most active.

Oh, I thought you meant like, what country?

Oh, okay. It seems like you play with the world.

I do. I'm very active on Instagram right now just because it's such a fun platform. But I'm always on Facebook posting positive things. But you know what? Play with the World is a website that you can get a free meditation on how to live your dream life on. Playwith.com as well.

Shannon, what a joy to connect with you as we all go down this path of the joy seeker. And we covered a lot of ground. Is there anything at all you think we missed or anything in this moment that you feel compelled to share?

Share? No, I think we, we covered a lot and it's been such a joy and honor to be here with you. So thank you and everyone. Have a beautiful day.

Have a beautiful day. Create the beautiful day, even if it, quote, feels different. And we're talking about Shannon a lot@wellnessforce.com group. Make sure you go to the show Notes to check out Shannon's work. And until we see you all really soon next week, I'm wishing you luck, love and wellness. Hey, thanks for listening to the show, my friend. Everything you learned on this podcast starts with your morning practices. So from over 300 world class guests, we pulled together six simple yet powerful morning practices down into a 21 minute system guaranteed to increase your vibration and the way that you feel every day. Get this free powerful guide over@wellnessforce.com M21 and and if you love this show, share it with somebody. Share it with somebody that you love or that you care about. You can support the show easily by leaving us a five star review on iTunes. Just go to wellnessforce.com review or if you're on your phone, just tap it. Hit the link in purple that says review this podcast. And the journey does not stop here. We're continuing this discovering process in our private Facebook group. Over@wellnessforce.com group. You can be a part of it. You already are. All you have to do is join us@wellnessforce.com group and I will welcome you at the door. Now go out into your life and live your life well. And until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.