44 Years of Marriage: How to Have a Lasting + Loving Relationship

All of us have the same value. There's different things that we can do for a very good reason. We need both the masculine and the feminine. Men are working full time, women are working full time. So everything has to be equal and divided equally, but we still have different roles. There's this big thing about equality. Men and women are equal. Men and women are the same. And in relationships, it's way more about equity than it is equality.

We've stepped out of the way nature and creator have intended us to relate to. If we can return to just the natural laws of life where there is this polarity in which you speak, we're going to not just heal this genderless society narrative and all the darkness we saw in the Olympics and everything else, but we're going to thrive. It's all exhausting us to the point where we're finally going to be so exhausted that we put our weapons down and we say, how can we just love each other, right? How can we just be there for each other again?

If you want to be in a romantic relationship where your husband is attracted to you, you have to go into your feminine side. They crave our feminin. They crave it from us. And we offer that. We offered that peace, you know, our homes to be a place of peace for men when they come home. And I hear women say all the time, well, my, my husband doesn't even want to come home sometimes, so he'll, he'll go to the bar. Well, are you creating a peaceful environment? He's been at war all day. He doesn't want to come home and have to fight another war. He wants to come home and be able to relax and be at peace. Are you offering that to him?

What wealth do you think is being stolen from male, female relationships? Husband, wife relationships? Hey, it's Josh. Before we get into this episode, I have a small yet powerful favor to ask of you. The community has been growing by thousands lately. And the bigger the tribe, the bigger names of world class guests we can have on this podcast that I can bring to you from my heart, from my curiosity, so you can have more wellness and wisdom in your life. Would you please be so kind as to hit the subscribe button wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. It'll allow us to rise naturally in the algorithms based on your 2 second act of generosity by you just tapping that little subscribe button wherever you're viewing or hearing this episode. Thank you so much. It means the world to me and our entire team here at Wellness and Wisdom now. Enjoy the podcast. Danielle. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you. I'm honored to be here.

Yeah, it's so cool. I. I love where you live. It's my old stomping grounds, Cali. And I love the topics that you speak about. You know, we're all scrolling on Instagram these days.

Yeah.

And when I see what you represent, not just for married couples or people that are engaged or people that want to be married, people that want to create family, Gosh, this is such a timeless and timely episode. Like, we really need this wisdom right now. And just to start us off, I wonder if you ever even considered that you would be doing what you do now. And what is it exactly that you do now for people that don't know you?

Okay, so my husband and I co pastor alongside my husband at church, and we've been doing that for the last 25 years. Always been involved in ministry. Even before we had our own church. We were youth pastors in another church first. And then my husband travels. He has an itinerant ministry, travels all over the country. He's been all over the world. And then one day we decided, hey, you know what? We need to start our own church. And so we've been doing that. And. And I've always taught relationship courses and classes. And my son a year ago, because I quit doing that when the pandemic hit and we shut everything down. Now our church is mostly online. We have people come to our house, but it's mostly an online audience. And my son said, mom, I think we need to start a podcast. He said, you have such good information, but nobody's hearing it. And so I said, okay. And I said, I don't know how to do that. And he goes, I know you just come with the content. He goes, I've got the rest. And I said, okay, so that's what we've been doing for the last year. And he said, don't expect anything, you know, right away. He goes, we don't know if the Internet is even going to like what you have to say. He goes, so we're just going to take it really slow. And we were both shocked how fast my following grew. I mean, I. I started out on Instagram and Facebook. Facebook with hardly anything, and Instagram was like 700 followers. And now we're up to almost 300,000 and almost 400,000 across all the platforms. And in a year. And he was blown away. He was. I didn't expect this. Like, me neither. Yeah, we're just. We're new at It. But it's been so much fun, and it's been so interesting to me because I've always done all my teaching in the cocoon of the church world, which is a safe place for me, and now putting it out there for the world to see. I am blown away. First of all, how many hurting people. There's some very hurting, bitter, wounded men out there toward women, and some very bitter women toward men. And I get lots of messages and lots of questions and. And it saddens me to see, you know, just how many people have been hurt, you know, through relationships, through marriage, divorce, whatever, through abuse, you know, and that's been. It's enlightened me. I mean, I have to admit, I'm kind of like, wow. And I have a lot of different followers. They're not all Christians. But there's. It kind of goes across the board, my message, because it's. It's just human beings, you know, I'm talking just to human beings about being the best human, the best version, bringing out the best in yourself, bringing out the best in one another. And that's kind of my. My mission, I guess.

Yeah. I love what's happened for you because it seems like it's resonating and going deep into the psyche and hearts of men and women because it is most needed.

Yeah.

I think that's the real key. You said you felt enlightened once you started learning about people's pain.

Yeah.

Why did you feel enlightened?

Well, it just. I think I didn't realize again, because my. My scope. My world's always been smaller. You know, it's just been, again, inside the church walls and so getting it out into the world, because I just didn't realize. I mean, there's people literally all over the world that are talking to me, and. And it's. You know, this is just human nature goes. It's humans. We're all the same. We're all human. And I think that just surpr. I mean, thank God for the Internet. Yeah. I mean, what a blessing that we can talk to people all over the world.

Yeah.

Just to see where other people are coming from. And I. I think I just didn't realize how many people are very angry, you know, very angry at the opposite sex and that. And that's what, you know, my. My material is all about having to. How to understand the opposite sex, loving the opposite, accepting the opposite sex and how different we are. And it doesn't mean because we're different that we're bad, you know, that it's something bad. You know, it's just. We're just different. We.

We did a clip a while ago, and it got hundreds of thousands of views. We'll link it in our notes today for this podcast. And it was about what happened with Mao in early Communist China. He created what's called a genderless society. So all the women and men shaved their heads, wore the same clothes, and that was an early hallmark of communism. And we see this now in the media, unfortunately. Well, actually, it's fortunate because it is bringing us together. I believe there's a silver lining. In every tragedy, every. Every hardship, there's always something beautiful to learn. Right. Otherwise, God Creator would not have brought that to us. There's always something good that comes from something perceived bad. So I wonder how you feel about this as a really big jump into the deep end of the pool, because this seems like the source of why you mentioned men and women are so divided. They' so much bifurcation. We've stepped out of the way nature and creator have intended us to relate. Can you speak to this genderless society that you see in the media and the narrative? I feel like you're bringing so much light to it, but you're not necessarily focusing on it. I wonder if you could just shine light on what you see from your vantage point.

Yeah, well, and, you know, my background is the Bible, and so I base my truth and my beliefs on what the Bible says. I believe the Bible is true. And the Bible says that God created male and female, two genders, male and female, just two. That's what the Bible says. That's what God created. Now, man has tried to create all different kinds of genders out of that, but the original way that humans were designed there was male and female. And everybody talks so much about, you know, equality, equality. And I do talk about, you know, a lot about the feminist community. And I think that the feminist movement had a good idea. Idea. I think in the beginning it was a good start. You know, equal pay for equal work, and women are as valuable as men. And. And of course they are. And I. I believe that in the eyes of God, all of us have value, the same value. But we're not the same. We have different roles. Men can do things that women can't. Women can do things that men can't. Women can birth babies. Men cannot. I don't care what our new culture is saying. Women birth babies. Men cannot. That's not how God designed us. He didn't change his mind and decide now that men are going to Be birthing babies. Okay? He has not changed his mind. But again, man, some new ideology has created that. So we. We're different. We have different roles. There's different things that we can do for. For a very good reason. We need both the masculine and the feminine. We need both. And I just think our culture has come up with all different weird things. And I think it's. I think it's the enemy. I think it's deception and it's trying to brainwash people. And I think if we just get back to how humans were designed from the beginning, that we would be so much better off. That's what I believe. And I just think there's a lot of chaos in the world right now, a lot of division, separation, isolation. And that's not God's design. God's design is to. Is connection, unity, to bring us together. But I believe there is a small God in this world, the devil, who wants to separate us and divide us, and he hates us.

So I can fully respect your views. I really can. And I can receive them. And I want to ask my audience to be patient too, if they've had wounding around the Bible or wounding around God, because the way that you speak, there's wisdom there. And I want to be really mindful, too, to just everyone take a deep breath and open your mind to what Daniel is saying. Open your mind, open your heart, too. Because I think intuitively, in the same way that butterflies fly for the winter and salmon do a run in the summer, and all these different ways that the nature inside of us rolls out naturally in the world, there's no programming for nature. It just does what it does. And I think if we can return to that. I know I'm speaking reductionistically, if we can return to just the natural laws of life where there is this polarity in which you speak, we're going to not just heal this genderless society narrative and all the darkness we saw in the Olympics and everything else, but we're going to thrive. I do believe, and I wonder how you feel about this. I do believe that the Creator, this grand theater that we're all living here on planet Earth, this is happening for a specific purpose. This demonic agenda, this bifurcation of men and women, the feminism versus the patriarchy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's all exhausting us to the point where we're finally going to be so exhausted that we put our hands down, we put our weapons down, and we say, how can we just love each other?

Right?

How can we just be there for each other again, what do you make of that?

You know, to each his own as far as their beliefs, you know, I mean, believe whatever you want, have whatever you want to be your higher power. I mean, whatever. But be a kind human being, whatever that is. Learn to be a kind human being. You know, I mean, that's, it's all about loving. Love is what we need in this world. And, you know, a lot of people say, well, what's your definition of love? Well, I would go right back to what the Bible says in First Corinthians, that love is patient, love is kind, love is God. And he defines what love is right there. It's, it's so simple. And, you know, it does not boast, it does not brag, it holds no record of wrong. I mean, that's what love is. God is love. So to me, it's like in relationships, how can you learn to love yourself and love others if you don't know who your heavenly Father is? If he is loved, if he created love and has defined love for human beings. If we don't know who he is, how can we possibly know what love is? That's what I believe. So I, I think we have to base everything off. Again, the Bible is my, you know, that's my frame of reference. So. And that's what I, I really believe.

I love it. Now, I've. Have you studied any of Carl Jung's work or has that come across your.

Table a little bit? A little bit, but not a lot.

One thing I love that he says, which is in alignment with what you're saying and why I want to have everyone please open your hearts and minds to what Daniel's saying here. Because if you've had past wounding about the church, we're going to go there, right? There's a healing, there's a reckoning that's happening on earth right now. I think you're one of the voices that's bringing it together. I can, I can sense that. And what Carl Jung said was so powerful. In an interview, the interviewer said, do you. Do you believe in God? And Carl Jung looks so confused. He said, do I believe in God? I know God. I know God. And there's a big difference between believing in God, because to believe in God means that you have to go through a choice process of even understanding if there is a God. But to know God, to have faith, faith is undeniable compared to belief. What do you make of that?

No, I love that. I love that. I love how so many scholars, very intelligent people like C.S. lewis went out to prove there was no God. You know, some of these. These guys went out and, like, they made their mission to prove there was no God. And in the. In researching, they came to know God and they're like, oh, my gosh, I was trying to prove that there wasn't. And I found God in my Reese, in my searching to prove there wasn't. And I just think that is so cool. If you look into it, if you really look into it and do the work and study and do the research, it's undeniable. It's. He's undeniable. Somebody created us. Who was it somebody? We didn't. We didn't come from monkeys. We didn't evolve from monkeys, or, or why wouldn't we still be evolving from monkeys? You know, I mean, if that weren't true, why aren't monkeys and apes still turning into humans today? You know, it's just crazy.

It's fascinating how we've made as a society, and obviously not yourself and probably not the people that resonate deeply with your content or that watch or listen to this podcast, but science, in a way, especially since 2020, has become a way for people to have a false sense of safety and actually make science God. Instead of them feeling God or knowing God, do you see that happening in your world?

Oh, my gosh. And you know what? I just. In fact, I just spoke this week about how this, the science, the neuroplasticity and neurogenesis, those are really big words. But how that science is finally catching up with what the scriptures have been telling us all along about how the brain works, about renewing your mind, about thinking what you think about and dwell on and meditate on is huge. And how you wire neural pathways. If you are constantly thinking negative and you're cynical and you're a pessimist and you just see the bad in everything, you'll be in a rut where that's all you. You see. But if you're thinking on the good things, like first, or like Philippians 4:8 says, think on these things, things that are good, positive, beautiful, you know, the blessings, not the curses. If you're thinking on the positive, pretty soon you change your whole mindset. The way you look at people will be completely different. Instead of always pointing out what's wrong with people, their flaws, their inadequacies, we start pointing out what's right. And what you focus on grows. And so if you're always looking at what's right, it gets bigger and bigger till pretty soon you don't even see the flaws and the inadequacies and the weaknesses because we all have them. But like, in relationships, if that's. If we're only looking for the dirt, that's all you're gonna see. But if you're looking for the good stuff, the gold, the pure pureness of a person, then you'll see that and it gets bigger and better in your life. And. And even if that person doesn't change, you change in the way that you see that person. So it's so much about the mindset. And the Bible has told us that. I mean, the Bibles are written, you know, thousands of years ago, and now science is probing that actually works. I just think that's so cool.

It is really cool. It reminds me of a passage I tend to write down. I have a rolling list of passages that I love from the Bible, okay? And one of them is new King James Version, Mark 11:24. They're Sarah. Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask for when you pray, believe that you receive them and you will have them. So I'll just say that one more time because this is very deep and this applies to everything we're talking about. Therefore, I say unto you, whatever things you ask for when you pray, believe that you receive them and you will have them.

Right?

So write literally this timeless wisdom. I mean, you could stamp that on a column, you could put that on a cave, you could put it in a PDF online. Everybody understands what that means. It means the way that you pray, the way that you meditate, is just as important as the way that you speak to your wife, your husband, or how you live your life. What do you make of that? The Mark 11:24, when you believe, you pray, there's a certain way to pray because God only helps them who help themselves, Right? So what do you make of that?

I don't think everybody understands that scripture because some people say, well, I want. I want a Rolls Royce. I prayed for it. I want millions of dollars. I believe for it. I pray for it. You have to pray in alignment with God's will for your life. Okay? Not everybody that asks is going to get okay. So your prayers need to be to need to line up with God's purpose and his will for your life. So it's more like, okay, God, I am believing for a healing or I'm believing for a breakthrough. In the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus, if this be your will, let it be done. I want to be aligned with his will for My life, not my will. Because my will can go all over the place. I'm a human being. I got a dark side, my will. I could be asking for lots of things that aren't good for me. So we have to remember we can ask and believe according to God's will for our life. So that's the caveat there. You don't get to get to say everything you want. You'll get what God wants you to have.

You know what I heard from you there, There's a humility. And I think that's one of the pieces of wisdom that I've been searching and embodying for my whole life, but especially in almost 10 years of this podcast, there's this altar of humility that we must kneel for that actually allows us to be grateful and receive blessings if we just ask selfishly. Like you said, I want million dollars, I want a Ferrari. I want all these things. For what purpose? You know, for what purpose do we want these things? Is it coming from our ego and our hubris, or is it coming from our heart? And like you said, an actual kneeling at this altar of humility and saying, if this is in your will, God, if it is in the will of the universe, the creator, or God, however nomenclature you want to say, then therefore, I ask and I believe. So that's what I heard from you. Did I get that right?

Yes. And God wants us to be healthy. He wants us to be prosperous. Not just prosperous with material things and with money, but prosperous in our relationships. You know, rich in our relationships, rich in our family relationships, rich in our parenting. And I mean, in lots of different areas. It's not just about money. And there comes a big responsibility. If you, you know, I want millions of dollars. Well, why? Just to spend on me and to show everybody, like, look at me, look at the big house, the big car, the big jewelry, or. Because I really want to help people. I want to help the poor, I want to help the less fortunate. I mean, if you're praying like that and God sees that your heart is because you. You want money, because you want to pay it forward, you want to bless other people, you're probably going to get it. But if it's just about you and about somebody stuff, then probably not. You're probably not going to get it.

What wealth do you think is being stolen from male, female relationships, husband, wife relationships? What wealth do you believe is being stolen right now under our very eyes?

Well, I think there's this big thing about equality, and it has to be equal. And men and women are equal. Men and women are the same. And in relationships, it's way more about equity than it is equality. And, you know, for women, and I know, you know, men are working full time, women are working full time, so everything has to be equal and divided equally. But we still have different roles. And there's still something that women bring to the table that men don't as much, regardless of who's working and who's making more money. And I think if we just look at it as. As is it equitable in our relationships? Like, you know, my husband is very, very plain, very clear in our relationship that he is the man and I am the woman. And there's. He has his role, I have my role. But I think what is, like you said, being stolen is people want everything to be exactly even. And what I always tell women, you know, you're in your masculine energy. If you're at the office, you have to be in your masculine energy because you're producing, you're meeting deadlines, you're being productive. But when you come home and if you want to be in a romantic relationship where your husband is attracted to you, you have to go into your feminine side. You have to become the girl, because no masculine man is going to want to be. Is going to be attracted to another masculine man, that energy. And so if you're calling the shots and controlling and. And, you know, trying to wear the pants, it's. It's not going to be attracted to him. So you can leave the masculine energy at the office. We all have both. Both kinds of energy. But when you get home, turn back into the girl. You know, My husband, he traveled. He has traveled, oh, my gosh, our whole marriage. But for 10 years, he traveled 49 weekends out of the year for 10 years. So I was at home raising kids, and they were becoming teenagers, and I was in my role. He was doing what he does best, and I was doing what I did best. But being at home raising the kids when he was off the premises, that put me in the masculine role. I'm the protector, provider, calling the shots, doing the discipline, all that stuff. So when he would come home, we would argue the first day, every single time. The first day he'd walk in, I'd be bucking him because I was in my masculine, and he's coming home as the masculine, and we would buck. And it wasn't until I learned, oh, I can go back into being the girl, because now the man is home, the protective provider is home, and now I can Go back into this, you know, my soft side, my responsive side, my receptive side, you know, my girl side, my feminine side. And women ask me all the time, they say, well, how. How do I switch? How do I switch over?

Exactly. Exactly.

It's hard. My daughter, my youngest daughter, she was in a very stressful job, and. And then now she's married. They've been married for almost a year. And she said, you know, mom. And they have been. They've been taught everything. They're in great marriages, all my kids. But she said, it's really hard. And she has a lot of masculine energy. My youngest, and she said, it is hard switching back into being female. I try to get home from work, and I said, well, what do you do? How do you do it? And she said, well, I definitely have to intentionalize it because I'm used to calling shots. And I come home, and I've got to let him do that. And what I always taught women is, when you come home, do whatever makes you feel feminine. Get that oxytocin, that bonding hormone release. And for a woman, you know, taking a hot bath, lighting some candles, playing some music, dancing. I mean, going for a walk, like, do something that is pampering to yourself. Have a glass of wine, you know, whatever it takes to, you know, put on something, take a shower, put on something feminine that makes you feel girly, you know, and it could even be workout clothes, you know, whatever makes you feel comfortable and brings out that softness in you. And then you see the difference between your. Between your. You and your husband. And when I talk about that, and even online, more men have commented saying, yes, yes, I'm not attracted to masculine. I'm attracted to the feminine. They. They crave our femininity. They crave it from us. And. And we offer that. We offered that peace, you know, our homes to be a place of peace for men when they come home. And I hear women say all the time, well, my. My husband doesn't even want to come home sometimes. So he'll. He'll go to the bar, have a few drinks with the boys, or some men will sit in their cars. I've heard men say, I will sit in my car for an hour before walking in to get ready.

And I've done that.

And so I asked the women, well, are you creating a peaceful environment? And it's like he's been at war all day. He doesn't want to come home and have to find another war. He wants to come home and be able to relax and be at peace. Are you offering that to him?

So good. And probably it's triggering some people. That's fine. But we want. We want to be triggered because there's so many gifts in our triggers. Right. The reason that I believe we get triggered is because it goes against a bias or a belief or a conditioning that we've learned. But at the crux of this conversation, you know, the very beginning of our podcast, it's like, how do we go back to following the laws of nature? That's really my intention with this podcast. Right. Because there is so much wisdom in nature to Neil, there's so much wisdom. And what you're talking about is this balancing, right? In the east, they have the yin yang, where in the center of the opposites, there is balance. That's why it's the balance of opposites.

Yes.

But in order for us to achieve balance, there's also the man's role, too. I can say personally, like, I am a charger. I get things done. We just built a podcast studio, like managing contractors. These things take a lot of my masculine energy. So when I come home, I have been so in completion mode that by the time I get back to the house, now I'm fortunate enough to have my studio on my lane so I can walk home. I don't have to sit in traffic to go home. But for people that, on top of that, have to sit in traffic and be in this completion mode, what can a man do to prepare his nervous system and his regulation to meet his woman when he comes home?

So. And I. I learned this from Alison Armstrong, and I know you know who that is.

I love her. We've had her on twice. She's absolutely phenomenal.

She's. She is.

Shout out to Allison.

Yes.

Were you a frog farmer in your past? Were you a frog farmer?

Oh, no, I don't. I think I found her later on in life before I.

Okay, okay, got it.

Married very young and. And found the Lord very young. So I learned so much, you know, through the Bible and through church, of how to be a wife and how to be married. But. But I've learned so much from her, and about men and even about women. And I have lots of different mentors, but. But one thing that she taught me was that when men come home, that they need, like, at least 30 minutes. And for every man, it's a little bit different to kind of transition from work to home, to get into that frame of mind from doing, doing, doing to being home and then being available for your wife and your children and how if they can just get 30 minutes to transition and relax and however that looks. Every man has their own transition ritual. My husband, when he was flying home, I used to think, well, he got to transition on the plane. He's sitting on a plane for four hours doing nothing, watching a movie, and then, you know, I pick him up from the airport, and then he has that time. And what I learned was, no, that wasn't transition time. He was still in work mode. So he didn't get to transition until he actually stepped on the premises. And then I noticed that he. His ritual would be he had to go to the bank, make deposits, and then he would go in the garage and he'd have to wipe down his car for him. That was therapeutic for some men. They got to turn on the TV or look, get a sports update or sit in a Jacuzzi maybe, you know, whatever it your ritual is. I knew that he would. Could not be present until he did those things. And then he'd be like, oh, hi, how you been? You know, once he did all the stuff he had to do to be able to. Now he can be present for me and for our kids. And so I think for men, women need to allow them that time. And more women have said, oh, my gosh, that really does work. Instead of throwing the kids at him the minute he walks in the door, like, I've been working all day, too, and I'm totally here. I think we both need our zone out time. But you've got to find a routine, an arrangement that works for you and your family. And because when I posted something about that, oh, my gosh, the pushback I got from the women. Well, what about us? What about us? We need to transition. We need time. What about us who work full time and even stay at home moms? And I'm like, yeah, you need time, too. But women transition faster than men. And it's all about the way our brains are set up and our hormones and this thing in our brains called corpus, the corpus callosum. And I won't get into that. That's all scientific, but it really. Women just like women when they're having conversations. They can go from topic to topic to topic, switch over, back and forth, back and forth, where men, because they're single, focused, like, are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. We were just. Wait, where'd you go? Like, you're already. You're talking about something else. I'm still back at this other subject you were talking about.

Yes.

Which is fast. So I just tell the women, take A deep breath. You'll get your zone out time too. And, and men were writing on, on the my, they were posting. Yeah, I, I need my 30 minutes and then I tell my wife, okay, I'll take it from here. Go do whatever you need to get your zone out time and then we'll come back together. You know, I'll take the kids or I'll start dinner or whatever and just find your arrangement, whatever works for you.

And your wife that creates boundaries. Really, really healthy boundaries. I think what I've seen in our liberated life community and also just in emails and comments, and I'm sure you felt this too, it requires really healthy boundaries. So if a man had potentially an overbearing mother or he's a people pleaser, then he's going to be really challenged to say to his wife or to his lady, hey, I'm actually going to take 30 minutes to decompress so I can show up. More loving for you, babe. Is that okay? It's hard for him to do that. Can you speak to the men that have issues creating boundaries? How do you go about creating those boundaries? Because it's easy in concept to achieve what you're talking about, but to actually place the boundaries down, there has to be a connection to self and loving thyself in order for boundaries to be laid down, especially from a man.

Yeah, because you have to feel like your boundaries are worthy and that they're valuable and, and they're valid. And I think, I actually think men are better boundary setters than women. I think because women are such pleasers and they want to please men, I think women have a harder time, they might set a boundary, but actually enforcing it and executing it, especially if it makes him mad, because that's scary for women. I know with my husband and I, there have been times and I'm not telling him this is public knowledge. He preaches about it from the pulpit. But there was a time and he was stressed and dealing with something and he, he was angry and he wanted to blame me. And so he starts, he's getting going and he's angry. My husband's very passionate. He's very intense and he's using some colorful language. And I just said to him, I go, hold on. I said, this is so not about me. I said, you need to figure out what's going on. Maybe you need to take it to Jesus. I'm leaving, I'll come back. I'm not abandoning you. I'll be back. But I'm not going to sit here and listen to this. And I removed myself. And he said that day, that moment, it was like it just something landed on him and he was like, oh, my gosh. Like, he realized this was about him. This had nothing to do with me. But I've made a great sounding board. But I didn't like the way he was talking to me, so I just said, I'm going to walk away. And that was my boundary. You know, you don't put boundaries on other people. Your boundary is for you. And it's like, for me, I refuse to listen to that kind of language and that tone of voice and the volume in which you're talking. So when you calm down and talk to me like a human and respectfully, I'll be back. And, you know, and we've had to do that a few times. But I think men, for women, men need to step up and take their role and realize women are emotional. Sometimes women get crazy. We get crazy. And we are. Can get hysterical and emotional. And I think it's okay for men to say, stop. No, no, hold on. Okay, we're going to calm down and take the emotion out of it. I mean, go ahead and have your feelings. Feelings aren't good, bad, right or wrong. They're your feelings. But we're not going to go that way. And I think men need to take up, take, step up and lead. A woman wants a leader that's sexy, that's attractive. And sometimes I like when my husband stands up to me. Not in a harsh, abusive way, but there's been times where I've said things and he'll be like, no, we're not. We're not going that way. We're not. And that's enough. And I've heard enough. And I want you to stop. And I'm like, okay. And because I respect him, I'll listen, but I'll definitely push it.

Sure, sure.

I realized, too, that I can get emotional about things, and he's the more rational, logical one. And then sometimes we trade places, sometimes he gets emotional. I'm the more logical one. Sometimes we. We trade roles. It just depends on what. What the situation and what the subject is.

It sounds like. I remember I was interviewing John Wineland, and he said, you know, the yoga of relationship and the yoga of sexuality and the yoga of everything. It's this constant maintaining. Almost like if there's weeds in your garden, you pull them every day. Right. Otherwise they take out the plants and the produce. Relationships the same way. But I think what happens is. And I wonder how you feel about this, we get imprinted, Danielle. We get imprinted by like for example, in my own life, my mom raised a single mom, raised my brother and I in San Diego, California. And she was manic, bipolar, had a really hard time. And so I developed hyper vigilance. Hypervigilance, meaning I'm always thinking a shoe is going to drop.

Right?

And coming from a bipolar system like that, I've been through many relationships before now, my five year loving relationship where we have children and we're, we're creating so much good and beauty in our lives and in our family. But I had to earn getting there. And by turning the mirror on myself, or I like to talk about this, by shining the lantern on myself and others, which is really what this podcast is, I was able to illuminate these parts of myself that. It sounds like your husband also got illuminated where you were like, hey, this isn't about me, this is about you. And this is about you doing your work for people that have struggled. Let's just say for a man who struggled with an overbearing mother or a mother with emotional issues or mental health issues, what have you seen actually help men to regulate themselves when in sacred union, marriage, relationship, that they can really do that inner work on themselves. Is there a starting place for that? I mean that's a whole podcast on its own. But, but is there a starting place for a man who's been in that situation with a mother where it was conflictual and where there was some overbearingness? What's a good starting place for that? For him to begin doing his inner work so he can show up more loving for his woman?

Right. Well, I think for a man that, you know, has some wounds and has dealt with trauma in his past, I know my husband had, his mom died when he was five years old, his dad was very abusive and so he, he probably, I would say, and he believes too that he has like a root of rejection, he has abandonment issues because he's five, his mom's gone, you know, and so for us, you know, like there, there was definitely work he had to do, his own personal development. But there's things that I could say or do that trigger him, but I'm not responsible for his triggers. He's responsible for his triggers because those are trigger says, oh, there's still some undealt with stuff there that needs to be dealt with, needs to be addressed, needs to be healed and how ever you go about doing that. For my husband, he, he's had a lot of healing through the word of God through learning about who he is, as his value, as a. As a man, as a human being, and had to learn the self love and that even if I were to leave him, that God will never leave him. You know, so he. And. But that's, that's hard. I mean, and again, we've been married 44 years and there's still times where he'll feel if I say something that lands on him as disrespectful in my heart, I. I might not be trying to disrespect him at all, but it landed on him as disrespectful and he will come unglued. And I, for me, I just have to go, oh, wow, okay. I am so sorry. That wasn't my intention, but I'm so sorry that, gosh, the way I said that. Let me, give me another chance. Let me go again. Let me rephrase that maybe. And I always tell him, my intention is never to disrespect you. I love you. I think the world of you. But there's certain ways I say things, or my tone, or the words I choose, and sometimes I mess it up, you know, and so I think we have to give each grace. But for him, I know he's had healing. He's had to do a lot of his personal work as a starting place. I would say God would be the starting place because again, he's your creator and you. The more you learn about God and know who he is, the more you learn about who you are and who he created you to be. There's always therapy. You know, that would be great. I know there's trauma counselors and, and stuff. God might be a good starting place, but you might need to talk to a therapist to help you walk it through or walk it out. I don't really deal a lot with trauma in what I do, but I'm not a licensed therapist. I'm ordained pastor.

Sure. Well, and also too, there's a black slippery slope where there is this sitting and bathing in the feelings that can actually just reinforce those feelings. And so you have to have a really skilled therapist. Caveat to the audience listening and watching. Some of these therapists, they actually just perpetuate the issue because they'll continue to have their patient or their couple coming in just bathe in the problem.

Right, right.

But there's really no tools or solutions offered. So. I loved what you said that your husband did his inner work. You know, for me, it was really understanding that I am loved and I've Always been loved by that which created me. And it wasn't honestly until I was probably halfway through this decade of podcasting where I had many circumstances where there was just absolutely no explanation to Neil that I was loved. But I could feel it. It's, it's knowing with your eyes closed and believing and having faith with your eyes open that you're loved and nothing will ever change that. That's, I think, the crux of what we're talking about today. And it's part of the bifurcation with men and women. There's a lack of self love, but there's a lack of knowing that you are loved by that which created you well.

And the way you develop self love and self esteem and self worth. I heard one person who has been a mentor to me, she said, you have to earn that. Like when you do good things, it makes you feel good about yourself. When you make good decisions, it makes you feel good about yourself. That builds your self worth, your self confidence, your self esteem. When you're giving to others, not just, just about, it's not about getting, giving and doing, you know, making good decisions. Like I'm really angry. I want to scream and yell and call names, but you're not, that's not going to benefit anybody in the long run. So I'm, I'm not going to talk that way. I'm really proud of myself that I didn't talk that way. You know, just making good decisions builds your self esteem. Doing things that make you proud of yourself. You know, maybe it's getting your education, you want to get a degree and you do that and you were disciplined enough to see it all the way through. Or I'm going to exercise and work out, you know, four days this week. And then you do it and you're true to yourself and you do what you said you were going to do that makes you feel good about yourself. I kept my word to myself. And all those little things, little by little, it's like brick by brick, it builds your self love, your self worth, your self esteem. The things that rip your self esteem apart is when you do things that go against you, your moral values go against what you stand for, go against your integrity. That's what makes you feel bad about yourself and wrecks your self love. And you can't really have self love again unless you know who you are in the eyes of God. And if you understand that he loves you no matter what, no matter your sin, no sin, no mistake you make is more potent than God's love. For you, there's nothing you can do that's gonna cause him to separate from you. And when you understand that, I mean, we all need grace. You know, I. I've been a Christian, you know, for over 40 years. I still make mistakes, I still blow it. I still sin, okay? But I know that I have the grace. Thank God for the grace of God on my life. You know, people ask how we've kept. Stayed married all these years, and both my husband and say, My husband and I both say because of the grace of God, not because we are perfect human. Believe us, we've made every mistake, but it is the grace of God. And we believe he's our tuning fork. Everything we do, he's our tuning fork.

You talked about values earlier when I was addressing this question of what can a man do as far as inner work on himself? And then we got into self love. So in this place of self love, yes, there are values that we get to earn over time. It's like anything that means anything requires effort. And I think it flies in the face of this new age movement that says, oh, just love yourself. I find that to be toxic, actually, because if. If love was a light switch and you could just walk over to the wall and flick it, everyone would do it. But it's a deeper. It's a deeper inside game. And along your journey, you know, 44 years of marriage, like, I just want to stand up right now in my studio and just clap for you. That's literally my age. So you've been married to a human, learning about yourself, learning about him for 44 years, which is absolutely admirable and incredible. You know, whenever I seek mentorship, I always look at who is the person and have they embodied the values and the virtues that I am seeking?

Yeah.

And so it makes sense that you would teach relationship because for over four decades, you've been in one quite successfully, I would say.

But.

But along your journey, there had to have been a moment that you can reflect upon where you were out of alignment with one of your values. Because if values, if values like you said, are so important and that's how we earn self esteem and love, what was the moment in your life where you realized, okay, I'm out of alignment with my value?

Oh, anything I do, anytime I do anything that I know is really not right.

But was there a big one? Was there something overwhelmingly that really course corrected you in relationship to self and your husband?

I mean, it's hard to just pinpoint one, I think, because we're. It's a journey. We're always learning and growing. I mean, you know, I mean, people, like, values are something that you come into the relationship with. Like, you don't. You connect at values. Like, if my husband and I. If he didn't. He and I didn't have the same values, we would never have been married. So, like. Like, I valued family. I valued building a home together, a life together. A value for me is I didn't want to farm my kids out to daycare when I had kids. I wanted to be at home with them. And he agreed with that. He said, I like that too. Like. Like we had certain same values, you know, when it came to money and saving and spending and investing. We were so young. I was 19, he was 22. There was a lot of things we had to learn as we went, you know, that we didn't know yet.

Oh, my God, 19. You don't know much at 19, right? Come on.

I sure thought I did. Now, looking back, oh, my gosh, it's amazing that we even stayed married all this time. And I have to say, after four and a half decades, I can say the one thing that we have learned after all this time is that we don't have to work on it anymore. And I'm just kidding. That's not true. That is a lie. We will always have to work on our relationship because we have to intentionally making the other person a priority and. And meeting the other person's needs. You know, it's like it never ends again. It's. It is a journey. And because if I. If I said we don't, we no longer have to work on our relationship, that would mean we're two people living under one roof, you know, but we're not connecting. And because we still have date nights every week and. And we still listen to each other and talk to each other. Even when he travels, he's. He's done now. We talk to each other three or four times a day when he's on the road. We've always done that. And people always go, wait, your husband's calling you again? And I'm like, yeah, we check in with each other. What's going on? How's it going? What are you doing? What's happening? Like, we love hearing about each other's day still. You know, he still makes me laugh after 44 years. He's the funniest man I know. He's one of the best men I know. But again, we. We valued humor. Like, we both like to laugh. And he was just.

He.

He could have been a stand up comic. He really could have been. But we, we enjoy comedians, we enjoy laughing and, and having fun. We both value fun, you know, so. And we both valued fitness. You know, he came up from an obese family. His mom died of leukemia at 30, his dad died at 52 of heart disease. And we both valued health and fitness and we both work out every single day. But see, if I just let my. And we said to each other when we got married, I said, if you become obese, that's a deal breaker for me. And he said, same with you. I go, done, let's take on it. But that was the value. And our fitness, I just want you to know that will never work. Because his dad was 300 pounds and 5 foot 6. And I was like, if you end up like that. And he was like, I agree. You know, and so, like, again, if we didn't have those same values coming into it, it never would have worked. And I always tell people, young couples, you know, we're looking to get married. You connect at values, you collect, connect at personality types, and you connect at purpose. What's your purpose in getting married? Where are you going together? Are you going in the same direction? So you have to have those things to come together and to connect to begin with. And then when you betray your values, you know, we value. Morality is a value our faith is about. And when you betray your values, that's where things get messed up. And I'm trying to think, oh, my gosh, I'll think about it when we're done talking. Like, oh, I could right now.

Okay, if it pops in later, just let me know. Because. Because what you're talking about, what I get from you is, it's like alignment, but alignment. Just like if you're a ship at sea, it takes constant steering of the wheel. There is no there there. And I don't care if you've listened to a thousand podcasts or this is the first one you're hearing, you never actually arrive until you leave the planet. That's when you arrive. So there is no arrival. And I think we get caught in this mindset of like, okay, well, when I have this much money or when I have this type of relationship, or when I've done this much inner healing work, then I can just exhale. But we all know it's not the case. I mean, the greater capacity we grow to serve, to be in purpose, to be in union, to have children, the greater the challenges. I mean, I felt this first and foremost. I thought when I had this much money in the bank that I have now that I would be okay. Because I came from poverty. I came from being raised on welfare and not having enough food to eat as a child sometimes. And by the way, Mom, I love you. You did the absolute best you could, right? It's the consciousness that she had at that time. Some people just don't know what they don't know. It's unconscious incompetence. But what I learned from that was exactly how I don't want to live, exactly how I don't want to be. And I think that's the gift that not only if it's relationship or addictions of any kind or Covid Theater, all these things I believe the Creator brings to us to allow us to actually learn who we are, who and what we are. And I think that's the gift. That's the ultimate biohack mindset. If I could just drop that on the audience right now. The ultimate biohack is to learn how to love yourself and to always be open to the next level. Because it actually never gets easier. We become more skillful, for sure. But there's a learning curve that I think we could make less for people. I wonder, in your own words, how can we shorten the learning curve of pain in relationships? How can we make that learning curve not so intense and just make it a little bit easier? It's still going to have pain. It's still going to have contraction and expansion. But what is your wisdom about how we can make male, female, relationships, husband, wife, relationships easier? Where's the starting place for that?

I think understanding one another, acknowledging the differences, accepting the differences, not trying to change each other, and then showing appreciation for the differences, I think is huge. I do a personality workshop, a personality profile thing, and I feel like it is such an important tool because it helps you to know who you are if you understand your personality and what motivates you and what, what, what things that aren't going to motivate you. And then understanding your spouse and the people around you, understanding your children, so that you train them up in the way they should go, not in the way you want them to go, but the way they should go according to their personality, their purpose, their giftings, and then. And not. Because I think a lot of times we try to change each other. Think like me, be more like me, my ways, the right way. And you know something that'll kill a relationship so fast is you always happen to have everything your way that's going to kill it. Like there's got to be compromise. There's got to be humility, and. Okay, your turn. We'll do it your way this time, and then next time, we get to do it my way. You know, avoiding conflict will kill a relationship. And there's a lot. Because people, a lot of times are afraid of conflict. Well, if I can just find someone that. We never disagree. They never disagree with me. We never have arguments. We think the same about everything. Well, good luck, number one. Find a person like that. Conflict is great, because if you have no conflict, somebody's lying, somebody's not being authentic, somebody's afraid to speak up. They're gonna tickle your ears and go. And not ever say, never express themselves. That means your partner doesn't know you, because you never will express yourself and let yourself be known. So. So you can't go deeper in intimacy. Your bond and your connection will never. It'll be shallow. I know people that have been married for 20 years, they didn't have any conflict, but they never talked. They just pressed it down. Pressed it down, and they would not because they were afraid to fight. And I'm like, go ahead and fight, but fight constructively. Like, you know, not through screaming and yelling and name calling and not through denying it, ignoring it, and putting your head in the sand, but fight constructively. Here's what happened. This is how I feel about it. What do you think about how I feel? What do you feel about how I think? You know, and talking it through till you get to a place where you're both satisfied. And sometimes you'll get to the place where you're not satisfied, but you're willing to say, okay, it's that important to you, then I'm gonna pull back and. And you can have it your way, because it's more important to you that we do it that way than it is to me to have it my way. So you. You're gonna get this one. You get to have this one. You know, I mean, and that. I feel like that takes maturity. But I think the pain, like you said, pain comes from not talking things through and harboring anger and disappointment and sadness until you get to the place where you. There's no more room to push it down. And then you explode. And then one day, the wife just says, I'm out. I want a divorce. And the husband's like, wait, what? I thought everything was fine. What? And they're just like, I'm out. I've heard so many stories like that. And it's like. Because you never would Speak up. You would never say your truth. Instead, you turn to the bottle or you turn to a pill, or you, you put your focus somewhere else, the kids, or you just went to the gym all the time, but you never had conversations. You know, we medicate our pain with all kinds of things. Well, you just kept eating because you never would talk about your feelings. So you just ate your feelings. You know, I mean, I just think there's. There's a lot of things we do to cause pain, but there's so many great things we can do to get out of pain and to heal pain. And just real quick, what you said about. I was thinking about this, about healing old wounds and bringing stuff into, you know, old wounds into marriage. My husband always says this. So you go to therapy for six months, you find out whose fault it was. He goes, bottom line, you still have to make a decision. You still have to choose right and do the right things, even though you don't feel like it. You know, bottom line. So you found out it's your dad's fault, your mom's fault. I still have to be a decent human being. I can't blame them and hold them accountable for what, you know, like you said, your mom did the best she could do. She had issues, but she loved you and loved you the best she could with the tools she had. She just didn't have all the tools. Who does?

You had mentioned that one of the ways that there's disconnection in relationship. And by the way, we've seen this so much, especially with like the rise of pornography and social media and drinking. There is literally an army of ways that society monetizes our pain so that we actually get robbed from feeling it. Because there's such a gift in pain and in conflict too. I totally agree with you. And I'm not here to just agree with you. There's just so much I agree with. I love it. But, but one thing you had said was that sometimes in relationship, the wife might just focus only on the children. What is the danger of a wife focusing or hyper focusing too much on the children? What does that do to the husband, wife relationship?

It's not good. You know, my youngest daughter just had her first baby, okay? She's four months old. And she said, and she has decided to go the co sleeping. So that baby is in their bed with them, the baby and the dog, and they're newly married. You know, they, they're, you know, just married, you know, a little over a year. Anyway. So she said. I said, okay, so you do the co sleeping. I said, just remember, your husband still has needs. Yeah, I know. Your new baby is your world. I go, but just remember he still has needs. And she goes, oh, don't worry, Mom. She goes, you know, there's other places to have sex. You don't have to just have sex in the bed. We can have it in the kitchen. We can have it in the shower. We can have it when the baby's taking a nap. She goes, I'm not, I'm not worried about that. I said, that's awesome. I said, good for you. She told me the other day. She goes, yeah. I said to my husband, okay, I got 15 minutes. Want to do it? Let's go. And he was like, okay. He knows even though she's got this little infant that is completely dependent on her and she still has a husband and he's the priority, the marriage, that relationship has to be the priority over the children. It has to be. Because, you know, the best gift you can give to your children is having a good relationship. The best gift you, Josh, could give to your wife, your children is loving their mom. Loving their mom. And the greatest gift she could give to her children is showing you respect and appreciation. And when the kids see mom and dad are good, it breeds such security in them. But if they see that mom and dad are not good and they're arguing and fighting, and they never see it modeled to them, what a relationship with love and forgiveness. It's okay to fight and bring your kids. Just let them see that you resolved it also, you know, because that's great training for the kids. Like, we're not going to stay there. Let them watch you resolve it all the way to the end. Okay, I forgive you. Forgive me. Okay, one more. All right. See, kids were good. And that just because it scares kids when you. When they see their parents fight. I heard at nine years old, in my bedroom, my bedroom was across the hall from my parents. And I would. I started going to sleep every night, praying that they wouldn't talk. Oh, God, please don't let them talk tonight. Please don't let them talk. Because it would start out as this whisper. I could hear this just this low mumble from across the hall. And then it would get louder and louder and louder. And then it would be down the hallway and then would end up in the kitchen and they'd be screaming. And as a nine year old, it freaked me out. It scared me so much that every night I. Please, God, please. And when my parents came and said they were Getting a divorce. I was like, oh, thank God. Oh, thank God. Because I couldn't handle the fighting and the arguing. I was like, good, Dad's moving out. Okay. I mean, I was, like, thankful because I. It scared me me when they were together because they might fight at night. And not that divorce is good, but from a child's perspective, I would have rather had my dad out of the house in order to have peace and not see them argue than to have him in the house and see him fighting like that. It scared the heck out of me. So just. Just be aware that when you have children, it's okay to fight constructively. Okay. But just resolve it in front of them. Let them see that you've resolved it. That's great.

Anyway, you're touching on a really, really prominent issue that I've seen not just in our circles, but across the Internet. And that is there is this message that is coming. I think it's coming from a good place. I can sense this coming from a good place in the women that are sharing it. But it goes something like this, Danielle. Well, as a husband, you just have to know that for a year or two, your second burner. And it's all this focus on the children. And the children are priority. And you have to know that you can go to your men or talk to a tree or, you know, find your healing or find your needs that can be vanquished outside of the relationship. What do you make of that?

Nope. I say no. Your husband, the marriage is the prior priority, and you're doing your kids a favor. Yes, of course your kids are dependent on you. Of course they are. And you have to give them time. But. But don't neglect your intimacy and your time together with your husband, because the kids will appreciate it as they get older. And our kids have always been prior. When my husband would travel and come home because be all excited, he was there. And he would always say, first, me and your mom, we have date night. I'll get to you later. And I was always the priority. And he would say, you give your mom grief, I'm going to give you grief. Like you disrespect or you're misbehave with mom. Trust me, you're gonna hear it from dad. Like, he always made sure they had the utmost respect for me and that he. And they could see that I was the priority for him. And I think that made them feel very good and very secure. And then he. And then we would do the family. All the family stuff, of course. And he would Spend time with each one individually and take our daughters on dates. And I loved that. I was like, yes, do that. That made me feel loved that he was loving our daughters, that when showing them, this is how a man, this is how you date, you know, those kinds of things. So I think, yes, of course the children are dependent, but you have to set aside time, you have to have that date time, that date night, or. Or an hour, go for a walk, go for coffee. It doesn't have to be fancy, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money, but you have to take time for each other. Absolutely. And not at the end of the day when you're both exhausted, but when you still have energy. Right.

I have fallen into that trap where it's like, okay, the kids are finally asleep. What do you want to do? I just want to put my head down and sleep because. Because I'm so exhausted. Like, so there's what I heard from you. And I've practiced this with Keri. Michelle is actually putting things in the calendar. I know that's regimented and probably the women are like, oh, that's so masculine. But that way it gets done. It gets done. If we have time together in the calendar, then we've got the nanny scheduled, we've got the house cleaned, everything's ready to go. That's our time. It's like there's an exhale there instead of just. If we wait for life to create the space for us, it'll never be created. It'll never come.

And the anticipation builds when you're toward having that time. Like I tell couples, put it on the calendar when you're going to have sex. Sex. And they're like, that just seems so unromantic. I go, but you think about the anticipation. Tuesday at 11.

Kids are, I would love to see that on the calendar. That'd be great. And.

And I've had couples over the years come to me and say, we actually do that now. We put it on the calendar and we schedule time for sex, sexy time. And it works. And we actually look forward to it. Like Tuesday at 11. Woo. So it doesn't have to be unromantic. It would just be like, now you're both getting gearing up for. Because you know that's the time it's going to happen. And again, you, you focus on it, you intentionalize it because you know it's important, it's necessary, it's needed.

I've loved the perspective. You've brought on so many key issues. And I can't let you go before we talk a tiny bit more about sex, because it's literally the fuel, it's the oxygen of intimacy. Now, granted, physical intimacy is one form. There's emotional intimacy, there's many types of intimacy. But. But for couples that are struggling, that are dealing with issues of. Of, let's just say, sexual dissatisfaction in their marriage or in their relationship, where do they begin? Besides just scheduling it, where do they begin to actually structure physical intimacy if they've been struggling with that?

Right, right. Well, I would say, generally speaking, it's usually the women that don't want it. Right. Because men, I mean, they got a lot of testosterone and they always want it. Right. So it's usually women that I'm tired or not feeling good and the kids and taking all my time, that kind of thing. And what I would say to women is, men have a need, a sexual need. Who would you like to fulfill that need if you're not willing to? Where do you want them to get the need fulfilled? Do you want them watching pornography? Do they. You want them, you know, being attracted to the cute little girl at work because she pays them lots of attention and is. Is always happy and paying attention has lots of energy and they can't get what they need at home. Like, where do you want them to go? It's. They have a need. And I have taught my daughters who are both married now, they never say no to their husbands when it comes to sex, ever. They never say no. And they say, you know, it's as good for me as it is for them, and it's great. And they've learned that because they have a need. And you're the only one woman that can fulfill that need. Do you want him jacking off when you're not around? No. You want to be the one that he is getting fulfillment from sexually. So I would say that women need to, again, arrange their schedule where they're willing to make that, to meet that need. And you know men, they'll take it any way they can get it. Bend over, we're in the kitchen, everybody's done. Let's do it. How fun. How exciting. New place, you know, like. Like, have fun with it, get creative with it. And then I do hear some women, and usually this is people who are probably more my age, in their 50s and 60s, where men's testosterone levels start to drop and the men aren't into it or they're not initiating as much and they don't seem to need it as much. And I always say, you Know, ask your, ask your husband to get his hormones checked. It could just be he's low in testosterone and maybe. And there's so many, you know, things you can do now. Yes, there's injections, but some of it's just exercise and eating right that will cause testosterone to be, you know, levels to move up. So I would always say, you know, make sure medically that he's okay. And I would tell the men to make sure your hormone levels are, are in balance. And, and again, God made it. And the word of God says that when you get married, you become one. Your body is not your own anymore. Okay? It doesn't mean you're a sex slave to your husband or your wife, but your body isn't your own. And he, he made it so that your bodies would go together, you would come together. And this, the sex is, is part of the oneness bringing you together. And it's, and there's things that go on in the spirit realm. It's, and I've even heard people say this, and I do believe it. It's almost like you're doing spiritual warfare, coming together and you're saying no enemy, no to the devil, no to the other distractions, no to, you know, to other beautiful women, that could be a distraction. No to. But other good looking guys, that could be a distraction, but you're fulfilling that need. And I learned this early on because again, my husband has always traveled and I had older women telling me, never send him out hungry sexually. Make sure he's full when he goes out on the road because he's in hotel rooms and he's around other women all the time. And, and, and men of God, you know, they're attractive because they seem powerful and auspicious. Especially they minister and they meet a woman's need. And women are just like goo goo gaga over guys on stage. You know, guys, men of God especially. Well, any man on stage, but musicians, any man who's in power. And I always wanted to make sure that my husband was full, you know, when he went out. So. And I would say, you know, even if your husband doesn't travel, but he's going to work every day, working office, but there's other women around. You want him to be full sexually. And of course it's not all the woman's responsibility. Of course a man has to stick to his moral compass and his values and his integrity and his commitment.

Okay.

Both have to do our part.

I loved what you said. And let's just go into this before we say goodbye. You said that sacred sex is spiritual warfare. How so?

Yeah, because it's. You're. You're coming together as one. Your bodies physically are coming together as one, and you're fulfilling a need. And it's intimate and it's bonding, it's connecting. And so when you're apart, you. You're full if you're saying no to, again, all the outside distractions that would try to lure you away sexually. Okay. Emotionally, you. And again, emotional intimacy is as important as sexual because you can come together and just have sex and not even make love. You can just hit each other off and be done with it. And there's times for that. There's times where me and my husband are like, we're tired, let's just do it, get what we need and go to bed. And then there's. There's times where there's this, you know, romantic love making session. You know, we call it a session. And then there's times where it's just quick. It's quick. It's like we're both tired, but we both want to meet each other's needs, you know, and there's times where I just want to meet his need. I don't need it. I'm good. But I want you to be fulfilled and I'm happy to do that. You're my husband and I think emotionally emotional conversation again. My husband travels a lot, but we talk, we connect every single day, two or three times a day. We can't physically because he's gone, but we talk in just that emotional intimacy where it's. It's satisfying, it's filling. We're on the same wavelength, you know, we're. We're connected, him and I, even though we can't touch. And I. So I think that is also very important where he knows how I feel. He can engage and we can express and manage our feelings, our emotions, one with another. I think that is also so important because think about it. What if something happened to you physically where you could not have sex? Like, what if something happened to your body where you weren't able. Are you going to divorce? Or are you still going to love one another? And you still have. You can, your mouth works, you can have conversation, you can connect emotionally. You might not be able to physically. So I think there's other ways of connecting that isn't just through intercourse, if you know what I mean.

Oh, my gosh. So good. And I know feathers are ruffled and that's good because I wanted to bring your wisdom and your vantage Point from Christianity to the show. I think it's very important that we take a large amalgamation of all the different walks of faith in the world. You know, whenever I come across someone that says my way is the only way, I always wince on that because to me it seems like God is all knowing, all loving, and all understanding. So that includes people that don't have certain degrees of faith that those maybe speaking about them have. And I've really liked that about what you shared today. So as I said in the beginning, y' all, keep an open mind, keep an open heart to what Daniil is sharing. And we shared so much and we had such really cool conversation nuances in here that I know are going to be certain clarity clips that we put onto our Instagram, by the way. Our Instagram, y'.

All.

You need to follow us. Wellness and Wisdom at Wellness and Wisdom. Give people your IG really quickly.

Danielle with 1L. Danielle is 2L's because my daughter in law is Danielle H. But her Instagram is private. Mine's Danielle Catherine with a K Hage. And I'm on Danielle H. Community on Facebook and I'm on YouTube and podcast. Yes.

Yeah, we'll link that on the screen right now and then in our notes for the podcast, y'. All. So make sure you share this with somebody who has been struggling in relationship with first and foremost themselves, with their creator and with their husband or wife or with their boyfriend and girlfriend. Like we're all leading each other to the same place. Can we just learn how to love each other and to actually do what nature shows us and to get rid of the clutter? I think really what you've provided for us today is there's so much clutter in the world, especially with social media, and there's so much. There's this massive distortion. And really what we're being called forth to be is our own signal above all the noise. There's so much noise out there. And I think the only way we can do that, Danielle, is to have a connection with something outside of us. Because then we're just making life about us. I mean, that's really. And that's kind of boring. I mean, it might seem hedonistically fun for a while, but at some point the wheels fall off the wagon in hedonism. Can you share parting guidance about where we are as a confluence, really, where hedonism is so pervasive? I mean, look at the Olympics. Look what just happened with the Olympics. And look at what's happening on most media platforms and the prevalence of pornography and addiction, and all these things that separate us from us and that separate us from our husband, our wife, our boyfriend or girlfriend. What is the wisdom that you can share that addresses all of this? That is a starting place for the curiosity, that divine spark inside of all of us to follow? We're in a weird confluence of just dark energy, but there's still light at the same time.

Yeah.

What do we make of all this? Where do we go?

Yeah, I think there definitely is a demonic agenda for sure. Trying to separate men and women and tell people we're all the same and we can be. We can pick whatever gender we want to pick. And I think it so goes against our. Our nature and how we were originally designed. And I would say, don't buy in to the ways of the world. You know, there's a scripture in Romans, I think it's Romans 12:2, that says, be, don't conform to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And what are we going to renew our mind with? Are we going to renew our mind with the word of Hollywood? Are we going to renew our mind with Netflix? Are we going to renew our mind with the world's agenda, the broken systems agenda? Or are we going to renew our mind to the truth? And the truth is the word of God. That is where you'll find truth. And it's not just truth that'll set you free. It's knowing the truth. So you have to learn what the truth is. The world is not going to give it to you. The. All this stuff that's the, like you say, the new age that, the humanness, the heated. This. That's not where you're going to get the truth. The truth comes from the word of God. That's what I believe. You can believe whatever you want, but.

I like that you said that, because this podcast and everything that we share, y', all is not about you believing exactly what I say and making it the dogma of truth. It's about giving you an opportunity to think and feel differently so that essentially your behaviors are different. And then you get something beautiful, which is a brand new result. A life more enriched. Enriched. A life more. Well, ever since I was a kid, Daniel, this question I'm about to ask you as we say goodbye, it's been burning in my consciousness ever since I was a little boy. I'd look around and I'd be like, why are all these adults so angry at each other? Like, what. What is going on here? Like, what. What is this Existential tension that I feel all the time. And at the core of it, the question that started this podcast almost a decade ago was, well, how does Josh live his life well? What is wellness? How do I develop the courage and the faculty to be well in this world? How can I have the wisdom to live my life well? What do you believe about that for yourself? How do you define wellness for you?

Real quick, how old are you? Can I ask?

44.

Okay. I think you ask really good questions. And I think you're very, very intelligent, by the way. And I think it's so neat that you as a kid wanted to know that. I mean, that's. That's beyond your years, you know, as a child. But now you're. You're in your 40s, and I can. I can see that you. You're. You're searching, you know, you're looking for the solutions, the right answers. So I knew you were going to ask me that, so I read.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jason. Can I read it to you?

Yes.

All right. So wellness ultimately shows up in a healthy mindset. Physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. Wellness doesn't just stop at the physical. You might be physically healthy, but maybe you're not a kind person. Or you might be emotionally healthy and you're able to express, engage, and manage your emotions, but maybe you're in really bad shape physically. Okay. Or maybe you're mentally healthy, where you're confident, not arrogant. You don't think you're any better or any worse than anyone else. You accept your strengths and your weaknesses, but you lack discipline when it comes to, let's say, physical health. Or maybe you're financially healthy, but you're not generous. You're stingy. Your money is all about you getting. And maybe you live in a constant fear of losing it all. A well and wise person knows that giving brings much more satisfaction and contentment than getting. I believe wellness expresses itself through the ability to give love as well as receive love. The ability to forgive, yet maintain healthy boundaries. The ability to sustain healthy, loving relationships. Wellness is resilience. The ability to overcome diversity. The ability to bounce back after hardship or difficult times. The ability to weather storms, the storms that life throws your way. Wellness is building a legacy. There's something left on the planet long after you're gone. A piece of you is left after you leave. At the end of the day, wellness is a lifestyle of loving and being loved. That's what I think.

Heart expansion. Danielle, thank you for being on the podcast today. Really, really valued the wisdom and the different vantage point that you've brought to many people who are possibly hearing you for the first time and in their journey of knowing God, understanding who and what God is, and knowing who they are, knowing how absolutely beautiful and loved that they are. As we say goodbye, I just want to thank you from my heart for the entire global audience. We really, really support you. And y' all go and make sure you follow her. Make sure you have something on your website where people can actually go through this personality profile. Is that correct? Or do they reach out to you on Instagram?

I actually had an app in the App Store, but we're redoing it, so it's no longer available in the App Store, but I'm hoping to get that.

Well, until. Until we hear from you again, we'll be following you and supporting you. And until we do another podcast potentially in the future, it'd be great to do it here in Austin for round two. I mean, the studio is incredible. We're both present, we're both here. And when I say both, I mean myself and our creator. And Danielle and I are wishing y' all love and wellness. We'll talk with you soon.