5 Spiritual Teachers Reveal #1 Key to Creating Your Dream Reality

In this panel‑style conversation hosted by Josh Trent, spiritual teachers Teal Swan, John Demartini, and others discuss how consciousness shapes reality and how individuals can reclaim their innate creator capacity. The dialogue moves through several themes: the limiting power of judgment language and the proposal to drop six specific words to allow unconditional love; the use of the Hawaiian forgiveness practice Ho’oponopono (the phrases “I love you, God; I’m sorry, please forgive me, thank you”) as a code to align with source and become both player and programmer of one’s life; the metaphor that consciousness collapses possibilities into the version we choose, likening us to children who invent games and rules. They explore multidimensional reality, explaining that different dimensions have distinct laws (e.g., time may not exist) and that perception depends on which “frequency” we tune into. The conversation also questions the origin of thoughts, introducing channeling research and the idea that some thoughts may not be personally owned. Teal Swan critiques the common spiritual habit of labeling dimensions as higher or lower, arguing it creates hierarchical negation. Practical examples such as Tony Robbins’ fire‑walking and visualization mantras illustrate how belief can alter physical experience. Throughout, the speakers emphasize self‑reflection, recognizing judgment projections, and transforming perceived enemies into teachers, ultimately urging listeners to remember their god‑like creator ability and to act from love rather than fear.
Chapters
We can collapse reality into any version that we want.
Your mind is so damn powerful, it'll create a reality for better or worse based on what you believe.
We call that reality the phenomenological reality based on our stimuli that we have from this outer world.
Really, the truth that you're perceiving depends upon which level of dimensional reality you are tuned into at a given moment.
So should we be aware that our thoughts sometimes might not be our own?
The first recognize is that we are programmed to exist in a context of judgment, right? There's so much language around good, bad, right, wrong, positive, negative. Be positive. No, that's negative. Yeah, good. That's bad, right? And so the first step is to let go of those 6 words.
Literally just don't use them anymore.
Literally. Because you can't judge without those 6 words. That's the beauty. Yeah, right. And so when you let go of judgment, then that gives you the space when you do feel anger or feel jealousy or feel whatever, because it's not bad, negative, or wrong, you give yourself space to actually feel this, right? And so you recognize that those are actually aspects of you. And again, there's a lot of like programming that says you're not your emotions, you're not your thoughts. No, you are, right? It's— we are everything, right? And so you give yourself space to feel those, and you meet that anger, you meet that jealousy, you meet that frustration with love. Right? It becomes a lot easier to meet it with love when you don't judge it. So if you let go of those 6 words, it just becomes so much easier to meet everything with love.
So it seems like another code that I get to get clarity on is, yes, recognizing that we give and receive light, the majority of our DNA, but also creating a vessel or creating a life for ourselves, being the player and the programmer at the same time, where we can give and receive more love as well. And so how do we do that? Yeah, it's a very intellectual question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I had to give a recipe, like a formula to it, sure, I would say— and we kind of talked about the Ho'oponopono.
Yes. And you have a really beautiful version of that.
Yeah.
Which I love.
I think that's a key ingredient in this process, right? Which is the phrase is I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me, thank you. But the context, the code, right? The secret sauce to this is I love you, God. And if God doesn't resonate, you can replace that with source, universe, spirit, whatever resonates, whatever that represents the allness of reality to you, right? In this case, I'm just gonna use God for simplicity. So it's I love you, God. And the second phrase, right, is I'm sorry I have not recognized your love and divine orchestration in every moment of my life. I'm, you know, please forgive me, thank you. What I find is that when you live as that vibration, where you acknowledge that every moment in your life when you were in pain, suffering, grieving, and in joy and bliss, that every moment was orchestrated and loved by God. When you live from that place, it's like you're automatically tapping into source code. And you no longer are looking for resources because you realize you have resourced, you have gone back to source, you are the resource. So another way they said it is you are now living as the programmer at the very same time that you're playing this game, right? And so we, we 24/7, we can absolutely alter reality at will. We just, we've been programmed out of this Kids know how to do this all the time, right? As kids, if you watch kids play, you put a bunch of kids together, what happens? They make up a game. They literally make up rules of reality, and they jump into that role and play that game. We literally are born innately thinking this way, but then we are told to color within the lines and follow the rules. So this, this programmer God self was programmed out of us. And so all of this is just really a remembering of what was instead of learning some new tactic.
So it's 2025. This is timeless, by the way. This is fully timeless. I think this can apply to every millennia, really. It's all been the same story unfolding anyhow. We're just on a different page in a different line right now. So if we take that curious view, what are some of the things right now, let's just say in 2025, that are taking away that godlikeness, that creator capacity, that, uh, programmer and player knowingness What are some of the things that we can just recognize? We don't need to focus on them and fall into it and be angry at them. Yeah, I fall into that trap sometimes, man. I'm a human.
Yeah. Yeah. This is such a great question. I've had a lot of great discussions with people who I deeply respect because they've been in this space for decades and decades.
Yeah. When you say this space, what do you mean, this space?
The space of unpacking what actually is reality.
Yes.
Okay.
That space.
Got ya.
Okay.
Got ya.
And many of us have come to the agreement that we are remembering the future into place by rejoicing what is. We will not remember the future in place by trying to fix anything. That's really important. Right. And so I can say, yes, I, I've hinted at any language or word that has become mass media use is typically a mechanism to keep us in the zoo that we're in. While I do call that out, I don't focus on that, right? Because if I focus on that, I'm, I'm jumping into the problem solution and I'm giving the zoo more energy. It's time for us to simply focus and remember that we're not in a zoo and we create that reality, which is different than focusing on how to get out of the zoo, right? We focus, we realize, no, we're, we're not in a zoo, even though we recognize the zoo. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm thinking of the scene in The Matrix. It's such a powerful movie.
Yeah.
Where he had gone through all this. I don't wanna ruin it for y'all if you haven't seen it. And by the way, if you haven't seen it, you get to watch it. It's, it's incredible.
Yeah.
He just simply— Neo just put his hand up and the bullets just fell. He just decided. Yeah, because he saw the code and he just put his hand up and the bullets fell.
Yeah.
And everybody, when they watch that, we go, oh yeah, we can just do that at any time. Yeah, we just forget.
Yeah.
So what is it then that we're actually really remembering? You said we're remembering the future.
Yeah.
What are we really remembering?
That our consciousness is collapsing reality into the version that we're choosing.
We know we experience thought, and this gets in the realm of such abstract stuff because a brain, for example, we could dissect it in science and actually point to different parts of the anatomy. But a thought, can we do the same thing? We can't. I can't sit there and point to your thoughts, but you know you're experiencing them, and so do I. I know I'm experiencing a thought, and I know that there's a sense of an I that can register the thought. So we start to get really meta if we break down our own consciousness, because there's an I that experiences the thought. So there's a distinction between self and thought. That's an important distinction.
Yeah.
But what is it and where is it coming from? And can we control it? I know there are hypotheses on this stuff, but I really don't know.
What's the strongest hypothesis you've heard about thinking empowering or thinking in a self-improving way. In other words, if the eye or the brain is experiencing the thought, either— well, maybe it's all collective, actually, maybe it's all conditioned thought. But there are, there are times where I truly believe that a thought is mine. I haven't heard it from anyone else. It comes to me after the cold plunge, or, you know, even a journey and breathwork or something. And I believe, I perceive it as my thought. I identify with the I have a thought, and then I allow myself to feel emotion, which then is like the lock and the key that allows behavior to happen after the thought and the emotion are felt. But at the core of it, aren't all thoughts collective thoughts that we attach to from the I?
Well, let's go back to the, the basic metaphysical hypothesis we started with. All reality is consciousness. So that means there's one source of everything, there's one cause of everything. So that means that all thinking comes from the oneness of consciousness. And yet at another level, there is the duality of the Mark and the Josh being apparently separate whirlpools within the stream, which is the level at which we're largely having this conversation, because otherwise it's like you can't even have a conversation.
Right, it's ineffable.
It's ineffable.
Yeah.
So at that level of the individuals that apparently exist, where do the thoughts come from. And you're reminding me of work that's been done on the science of channeling. There's actually a book on this by Helene Wahbeh, director of research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, called The Science of Channeling. Channeling is the phenomenon in which a human seemingly brings in a consciousness that's not native to that person, like a third-party entity, a spirit, or whatever it is, and will literally speak through the vocal cords of the human. And this has been studied scientifically, like, to evaluate it versus psychiatric conditions, for example, and look at the, the validity of the information that comes forth. And look at— actually, there are studies on the behavior of random number generator machines in the same room as the person who's doing the channeling, and that they behave non-randomly when the person's doing channeling. This is work that's been done at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. And of course, we need more replications of this sort of thing by many institutes, but there's weird stuff. Which, this is a long way of saying, there seems to be reality to the phenomenon of channeling, which gets to your question of, look, where are the thoughts coming from? Because if you could have a third-party entity, a different kind of a multidimensional whirlpool influencing your whirlpool, and you don't realize it, what does that mean? So should we be aware that our thoughts sometimes might not be our own?
We live in a universe where there, there are multiple dimensional realities. There's, there are different laws that applies to each level of reality. And so just to make this make really simple sense, for us here in one dimension, we perceive time, right? In another dimension, time does not exist whatsoever, and so therefore neither does space and neither does travel. It's almost like in those dimensional fields, what we perceive as going from point A to point B would be as simple as tuning like a car radio dial frequency into another frequency. And because we have switched that frequency, we are there. There's no journeying, right? So in these different dimensional aspects of this one universe, there are different rules and truths that apply. When we are tapping into the multi-dimensional universe, we have to all of a sudden expand ourself to be able to hold vast amounts of dichotomy, vast amounts of contradictory truths that are simultaneously true. Something like, here in the physical, there is death. In other dimensional realities, there's no death at all. Death does not occur. It is literally just a recycling of energy, so you didn't lose anything. Does that help somebody when they've just lost a child? No, no, don't even say it. Um, it's a truth at another dimensional level. So really, the truth that you're perceiving depends upon which level of, of dimensional reality you are tuned into at a given moment.
See, this is where I take— I actually take offense where there's a lot of spiritual teachers out there that just teach only that there's one bane of existence and this is it, and it's one place, and there's only one source, which may be true actually, and it feels like it is more and more and more every day. But yet, if God wants to experience God's self, or the Creator wants to experience the Creator self, in unlimited ways, then there would need to be duality. So yes, it's all great to say there's a singularity and we all come from one, and that's true, but that doesn't practically relate to this 3D reality and experience. It just doesn't.
Well, just like you, I have a problem with negation. And the issue that you're having, if you wanna put a word with it, is spiritual teachers who use higher dimensional information to negate lower dimensional information. And even the use of the word higher versus lower creates a construct in our mind where one is better than the other.
Yes, it's all one, brother. I'm like, what?
So rather than using higher and lower, let's use, uh, objective, more or less objective, right? Um, these—
when we—
when I'm using the word like a higher dimensional reality, it accounts for more of the story of the lower dimensions. However, it doesn't directly reflect it. So I've got an issue with, and so do you, spiritual teachers who use, say, 11th dimensional information information like, you know, pain is a construct, pain is primarily about beliefs. Are they right? Actually, they are. But when you use that to negate the reality that somebody has gone through in a 3D type of trauma experience, for example, it's damaging and it's negating and it's avoidance and it's resistance, and there's all kinds of issues with it. So if you're tuned in at all to whether somebody is in an integrative mode or not, immediately when they start to teach from that negating space, you're going to feel the resistance in them. And it's going to feel like inside your internal system, it's going to feel like a no cheese grater rub.
That's what I feel. Yeah. And, and, and in a way, I also can see that it really disrespects and kind of slaps people in the face that are struggling. It's a way to create a holier-than-thou system where if everything's all one and they teach from the 11th dimension, well, that dimensionality and the laws from that dimensionality don't apply to here in the same way they do there. I think that's what people miss so much.
Me too. You're like, literally, you're taking me— you're just like preaching to the choir at a level that is like— this is one of my biggest problems in my field.
Is this something that comes up in crowds? Oh my God. Someone will stand and be like, "Teal, it's all one.
You don't understand, it's all one." I feel like I spend my whole life trying to undo what other spiritual teachers do.
This is why.
And it drives me crazy, 'cause I hate when we are at odds. I actually hate it. People are, oftentimes they don't understand me in this way. I'm gonna tell you how I'm majorly misunderstood, right? I hate confusing people. My favorite thing in the world is when I've got some kind of congruence with other spiritual teachers so that the people who are coming into this vulnerable and learning don't feel like everybody else feels in the world right now, which is like, This person says the exact opposite of this person. How do I decide? Yeah, guess what? You don't have the thousands of years worth that somebody like me has put into this. You don't have it. So it's a horrible position to be in. I very much appreciate that. I can't stand it when we disagree. Um, but yeah, most of my job, a large majority of my job, is undoing other spiritual teachers' teachings.
Yeah, if we perceive somebody The way our amygdala functions, it assigns valency to stimuli and it basically labels something a prey or predator. If it supports our values, it's prey. If it challenges our values and our perception, it's predator. So it causes an impulse to seek or an instinct to avoid. And therefore we're externally driven. We're externally run by these perceptions. We call that reality. The phenomenological reality based on our stimuli that we have from this outer world. If we ask different questions when we meet this person we dislike or resent or admire and infatuate with, if we ask the question, what specific trait, action, or inaction do I perceive this individual displaying or demonstrating that I dislike, despise, or resent, or hate, or want to avoid the most and narrow it down. What exactly is it that they're doing, the actions that they're doing or inactions that they're doing that you're judging? If you identify that, the next question that's wise to ask is, go to a moment, John, where and when you perceive yourself displaying or demonstrating the same specific trait, action, or inaction that you despise most. At first, you're going to be too proud to admit what you see in them inside you, and you're going to have deflective awareness, and you're going to disown parts, and you're going to have dismemberment. You're not owning that part of yourself. And disempowerment, because you're going to want to change them relative to your pride and project your values onto them, try to make them to live in your values, which will be non-sustainable futility. But the moment you actually go and identify where and when you do it, Who'd you do it to? Who perceives you that way? And be accountable to look again and again and again until you own that trait 100% quantitatively and qualitatively. As it says in Romans 2:1 in the New Testament, beware of judging others, for you do the same thing. But if you look carefully, you only react to people on the outside that represent a part of you on the inside that you haven't owned. And you only resent them because they're reminding you of something you feel ashamed about that you're hiding from yourself, and they're coming into your life to help you see it. So when you actually go and reflect and see it, you realize that they're your teacher, not your enemy. They're not somebody to avoid, they're somebody to appreciate. Instead of putting them in the pit, you're now putting them in your heart. Now, if you go and do another step, go to a moment where and when you perceive that individual displaying the trait you despise and disliked. And in that moment, how did it benefit you? What were the upsides that you were blind to, that you're unconscious of? What are the upsides to it? If you find that and don't stop, and there is, there's benefits spiritually, there's benefits intellectually, there's benefits in business, there's benefits in finance, there's benefits in relationship, socially, physically, there's benefits in all areas. Whatever's most meaningful, there's actually a catalyst for what it's offering you to help you fulfill what's most meaningful. If you make yourself accountable to see not just the one side, but see both sides and come up with the upsides, what your intuition is attempting to guide you to do on a daily basis, you become fully conscious. You're not missing information. And you realize that they're not your enemy whatsoever. They're actually the guide for you to uncover the part of you that you haven't loved yet, that you're still judging inside yourself because of some moral hypocrisy that you've subordinated to. If you go in there and do that and you don't stop until you see the advantages equaling the disadvantage, the positives equaling the negatives, and balance the equation where it's neither positive nor negative, it's just a synthesis and synchronicity of opposites, you'll feel love for somebody you didn't know you could love. And you'll get to have love for yourself in that moment. And that's just two of the questions you could ask yourself. I have about 80 questions that I ask. And when they're done, there's nothing there except thank you. Ah.
When you come to the point where you're ready to confront whether or not God's for real, The hardest part is you've got to actually be brave enough to question whether or not the beliefs that you've been believing that have stopped you from seeing what's possible are stopping you from seeing what's in front of you all the time. People ask me all the time, how do you, how do you remote view? And why is it that so few people can do it? I say, well, look, The first thing you gotta do is stop believing that you can't do it. And a good example of this is when they teach kids how to bend spoons with their minds. They just use their mind and soften the spoon, and they find that whenever adults are in the class, they have a very hard time doing it. But kids that are younger than about 7 or 8 usually can learn it in 10 or 15 minutes, but their parents have a really hard time doing it. Why? Because their beliefs are too crystallized. You can teach kids all sorts of stuff. I remember when I did Tony Robbins' Firewalk. He had a thermometer in the coals. It was 2,600 degrees. Long story made short, he taught us how to condition our minds in order to get across the fire without getting burnt. They had about 6 ambulances there. Every single person that got scared and could not hold the mantra immediately got burned. You could smell dead, burning flesh everywhere. It was all over the place. There was people in the ambulance. I walked across those coals and they didn't feel hot at all. It felt like a warm forest floor. And, and what he taught us to do was chant, cool moss, cool moss. And instead of seeing burning coals, you see cool moss on the bottom of the forest floor. And you practice. And we, he he warmed us up all day long, practicing and visualizing, practicing and visualizing. So when you stood at the next of those coals, which are so hot, it's like burning your feet getting close to them. And it's like the length of your office here. This is not like one quick jump. It's like 5 or 6 full steps to get across that. And he had that oak burning all day long. I mean, this was like 5 inches thick of oak coals glowing red hot. And, um, every single person that got scared and could not hold the mantra got burnt. And anyone that could hold the mantra and believe with conviction that they were walking on cool moss did not get burnt. Now, you know, how many things does somebody have to do before they finally realize that your mind is so damn powerful, it'll create a reality for better or worse based on what you believe. If you believe there's no God, you will definitely believe there's no God, and you will have a big question mark in your head that will drive you crazy if you're even half conscious. Then how the hell did all this get here? What's breathing me? What's making my heartbeat? You know, there's so many mysteries of life that you can either talk yourself out of exploring them or you can say, I must do whatever it takes to figure this out. And that's ultimately what legitimate spiritual development is, doing what it takes to figure it out. So you actually come to face to face with the truth of who and what you are. And then you have to deal with another reality when you realize that you are God living, having this experience, and so is everybody else. Then you better act like it, because if you don't, then you're just bullshitting yourself.
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