Ami Brannon: Vagus Nerve Stimulation For Less Anxiety | Wellness Force #Podcast

As the brain recognizes what that relaxation feels like, it's so much easier to get there and stay there for a longer period of time. And that's because the brain is neuroplastic, right? So it's learning new things or remembering things. So I've seen many, many people that it's taken them two weeks before they can even appreciate what the effects are and be able to describe it. And I really, my theory is that they've never been relaxed before. They probably have never been there.

Hello, everybody, it's Josh Trent on a really special, special Friday. How are you doing out there in Facebook world? Today? We are talking about a timeless and timely subject, and that is stress. Most of us are stressed now, I would say more than ever. It's safe to say we have a guest on Today who is the founder of Nuvana. Now, this is a company that created this little device right here. It's called the Zen. And this goes into your ear, you listen to your music and it allows you to stimulate what we all know as the vagus nerve. We've talked about it in our Breathe program. We've talked about it on the show before. But we're gonna go deep with Amy Brannan from Nuvana. We're going to talk about the health benefits and so many other things that essentially, at the end of the day, give people more peace. Amy, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Josh.

It's cool.

Great to be here.

It's really cool because right before we recorded, I asked you what you're most grateful for. I don't usually do this, but I'm going to do it because it was so cool. And you said, I'm grateful for the opportunities that I've had because you essentially have allowed them and that, that peace, that real inner peace that you've had in service. You're an rn, you've been in the medical field for two decades. So I'm sure you're no stranger to being in stress and being around stress. What do you see right now? Before we dig into all things stress and anxiety reduction from a really high lens and from everything you've been through, what do you see as the biggest threat to the medical industry right now from all you've been through in 20 plus years as an RN and working with Nuvana?

So a threat to the medical industry and the future of the industry?

Essentially, yes. Like, what's the number one thing that's really holding the pressure and squeezing? What's not working in the industry?

Oh, people's Awareness, education. And I think when people take a hold of their own health and they really pay attention. So, you know, that's something I really want to touch on throughout our conversation, is paying attention, not just freaking out because something hurts or something itches. And you read some. You read a headline somewhere, it's really paying attention to what have I done lately, what have I listened to, what am I consuming? Not only content, but, you know, what are you putting in your body and figuring out what to do about that? I think that people are more aware than ever. And if that continues, you know, if we continue on this journey, then I think the medical field in general will definitely feel the impact.

Because it seems like right now there's a really a reaction to most things. People are reacting to stress, maybe even the medical industry, the wellness industry, there's a lot more productivity that I think could be in place. And what I love about this device, and I've tried the device, by the way, for three months, so I actually get to put my mouth and my experience online here. What I've noticed is we all get stressed. I especially get stressed. I have a huge past where my mother was bipolar. I've been through a lot of anxiety in my life. So leave us a comment right now if you're watching on Facebook. Are you dealing with stress? Especially right now? But I think about the way that we've all been so reactionary to stress in our lives, and really what this allows us to do is take a deep breath, reconnect with our body, have some, as you talk about in your blog, Somatic Intelligence, where we can actually understand what's going on in our body. My question for you as we go into this subject of the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve runs all the way from the brain. It connects through the ear, and then it innervates down the spine. It goes to literally every organ in the body. How did you even come across this work? You're an RN for 20 years. You met the founder of the product. Can you walk us through your discovery of you personally and also Dr. C's discovery of the vagus nerve and what it actually does for our stress?

Sure. That's a big question. Because in medicine, when you're trained clinically and formally to be a registered nurse, to be a physician, the vagus nerve is not focused on, for stress relief, for sleep, for anything like that. So 20 years ago, ish. When I was trained, you know, I just knew that there was something about the vagus nerve. It was this giant nerve and it was a communication pathway. And that was really about it. Now, most of my history in the hospital, that's all of my background in nursing has been in the hospital, in the ICU. And that's where I came across Dr. Cartledge, who is a cardiac surgeon and also a mechanical engineer, and he's invented numerous medical products. Sounds like an overachiever, high overachiever. And you talk about stress, you know, really intense personality, go, go, go all the time. So he started. His brother actually is also a physician, and his brother had experience with patients in his pain clinic with an auricular stimulation device. So like an electrical acupuncture on the ear. And it was doing wonders for pain. So that's really where the story starts is what's going on here. You know, it seems really weird. You put needles in your ear and typically traditional medical professionals don't really believe in acupuncture. It's got to be something deeper. So that's where the discovery of. It's the vagus nerve. So it started as really a physical medical thought. And then seeing as, you know, I'll Refer back to Dr. Cartlidge, you know, he considered that over time, he'd been reading papers about implanted devices about the vagus nerve. You know, they wrap around, literally an incision is made in the neck, and this coil is wrapped around the vagus nerve in the neck, and this little pacemaker device is implanted to stimulate it. That's for people with epileptic seizures that don't really respond to medicine. But he remembered seeing that those people had a profound effect that was lasting, that was a better mood and a better quality of life. Regardless of the seizure improvement, they actually felt better, better overall. So as putting the pieces together, the aha moment came about that people really need this.

A big piece of that too is 2014, six years ago, the awareness was totally different than now. He was seeing a lot in the literature that was coming up where when people were having their vagus nerve stimulated by the way there's. We're going to talk about this too. There's a very special way you stimulate it. It's not transcranial direct stimulation. It's not like you're literally going into the scalp. This is non invasive, which is really important to talk about. There's a huge body of research out there that transcranial direct stimulation, which is totally different than what we're talking about today, has some deleterious effects at times. Anytime you're breaking the skin, you're risking things, right? So What I love about this device. And again, if you're just tuning in, we're talking with Amy Brannan. She's from a company out of South Florida, Nuvana, and they make this device called the Zen. This Zen goes into your ear, and it directly affects the way that your body has a relationship with stress. This is non invasive. Can you talk about how it can be so effective but without it being so non invasive? Because in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, this is a surgeon, this is a physician. He's used to going into the body to help people alleviate this. How does this work? By just going on the outside of the body versus inside.

So the vagus nerve, you described it perfectly. It starts at the brainstem, it travels through the chest. It reaches every major organ system in the body. It also happens to have a little branch that pops out of the ear, so not out of the skin.

It's just the left ear, too. Right.

It's actually in both ears. There are two nerves that come off the brain stem on both sides. But the majority of the research out there is on the left because there's a theory that, well, the right side actually has more points of innervation to the heart. So that makes people nervous. But there's a huge body of literature that tests both sides just to make sure it's safe and it's proven to be safe. But because all the research is on the left, we all stay on the left. Right. We're all just trying to work together in science, but that's how you get to it without having to cut open the body or do anything crazy like that. It's literally just an electrical stimulation through the skin at. At the ear. And we do it with earbuds.

And the cool thing about this, too, is if you're watching here on video, if you're on itunes, you know, we have an amazing YouTube channel. You can see Amy and I in HD today. This little earbud is patented. And it's patented because there's a certain frequency and there's a certain science that goes into the ear that allows that downregulation of the sympathetic nervous system. And, you know, We've talked on Wellness 4 so much with so many of our guests across the world. The parasympathetic nervous system is our rest and digest. That's when we're calm. That's when we're loving. That's when we're connected to our spouse, our partner, our friends. That's when we're relaxed. But we have this really ancient system and it's the autonomic nervous system. The autonomic nervous system is this very, very old system that kept us alive when a tiger was chasing us, but yet it seems like a tiger was chasing us more in an argument with our neighbor or our spouse or co worker. So can you describe the science of what's actually happening here? When this earbud goes in the ear and it's going through the vagal nerve, the vagus nerve, and, and how is it actually scientifically shifting us over to that sympathetic. What's going on there?

So the branch that's in the ear, the branch of the vagus nerve. Well, let me back up. The vagus nerve itself is like a superhighway. So it runs two directions of communication. So from the brain to the organs, and from the organs to the brain. So the piece that comes through the ear, this auricular branch. Auricular is the fancy name for ear. So the auricular branch literally just goes to the brain. So this connection is a one way connection. It sends a little message, kind of like tapping, you know, tap you on the shoulder, hey, it's time to relax. Okay, everybody settle down. So then the brain sends the messages to the rest of the organs on the efferent side and says, all right everybody, it's time to settle down. Heart, it's time to drop the heart rate a little bit. You know, let's stop sweating so much. Everyone relax. Time to digest the food that you ate three hours ago, but you haven't been able to digest because the phone's ringing, your laptop is on fire, because you have a deadline to meet. You have children that are running around, and all of those things are the tiger that you're talking about, or there's.

News media trying to keep us in fear. I mean, we're definitely in that space right now.

Yes, totally agree. So that's what this little bit of stimulation sends a message to the brain. And so what I want to do is equate it to some of the things that you and your audience are so familiar with, which is deep breathing, slow, intentional breath work. These things do the same. They have the same function for the body. Sometimes we're just not in a situation where we can either focus, it may not be the right place, we may not. We just may need a little help or a little support. And that's what I think is so fascinating is all that, you know, so many scientists now are working on different topics and different benefits for vagus nerve stimulation, as you're seeing as well. We're all seeing it in breath work.

Yeah. A big one of that, too, is gated respiration, which we can explore later. Something for me personally that I know everyone can connect with is this state of being in reaction that I talked about before. If you're the kind of person who's with us right now and you're listening and when you get nervous, you sweat, or when you get a chance to go speak on a stage, you start feeling like palpitation and you start feeling shortness of breath, that. That is actually there to serve you. I don't. I don't want to shame in any way anxiety, because I've dealt with it tremendously in my life. I have found that breath work is huge. But I'll tell you what was so exciting and why I'm so stoked to have you on the show is when I learned the science of this. It was very similar to what happens when we do our rhythmic breathing, because the science of this is where the vagus nerve innervates down from the back of the head and it goes on the back of the diaphragm. So there's innovations of nerves and in that system. So when we're doing our deep belly breathing, it actually can take us from that stressed, sweaty, kind of anxious state, and it can pull us over into being more calm and attentively focused. Have you studied this correlation between breath work and the Zen device and what's really going on with this vagal nerve stimulation?

Right. We actually haven't done studies on that, but. But we know that there are universities that have. So the Medical University of South Carolina has a study, has two studies related to respiratory gated vagus nerve stimulation. And this is what's so fascinating is this field is growing so fast. So remember when I told you, we're physical scientists, clinical, physical scientists. So we're thinking this is all having to do with the physical part of the body. And there are so many mental and wellness benefits beyond that. We knew that there were the basics, but now people are. We have scientists that we're on the phone with or on zoom calls with on a weekly basis that are interested in studying learning and cognition and memory. And like this one about respiratory gated vagus nerve stimulation, that is related to how well can you meditate, how quickly can you adjust your heart rate variability, and does it matter at what point of the breathing cycle that you introduce vagus nerve stem? So we would have to be probably the most gigantically funded company to do all this studies.

That is not cheap.

On our own. I know. Yes, I know. So we've really embraced the scientists in this community and now we're asking them, would you like to meet each other? Right. So I think that that's one of the holes in new fields because everyone gets excited about being the first scientist to publish this or that. So we feel like we've seen a lot of the firsts. So now it's time for people to band together and say, we're studying, we're studying this type of waveform, or we're studying a sequence of how you pair the waveform with whatever you're doing. So we're, we're seeing so many exciting ideas out there.

I love the way that this is treating. Well, it's interesting because even though we know it's treating, I guess sometimes because of rules out there, we can't say the word treatment. So I'm going to say that it's a treatment. You don't have to say it because legally, like, you know, I understand you're bound. But really what this is, is this is a way for people to treat themselves. Right? So you're not treating them, you're unlocking the synergistic systems that exist in their body that always bring them back home to homeostasis. But you're doing that by innervating something that is essentially shut off when people are super, super stressed out. And I could see how this could impact addiction and recovery. There was actually an article that we're going to link in the show notes and you were featured. This device, the Zen device, was featured for helping people and assisting them in their recovery process. For people that have a loved one that is going through recovery right now. Can you share with us a little bit more about that?

Sure. We know that folks in recovery, wherever they are in recovery, are constantly dealing with something that is typically much deeper than a substance. So the dependency came based on some event or psychological illness or a situation that they're in. And a lot of it is stress related. When once someone has been through detox, you know that detox period, staying in line with what's the best way to maintain recovery takes a lot of work. So intentional, and I won't use the word treatment, I have it in my mind because you said it. But intentional interventions for yourself and having tools in your toolbox are really important. So we actually, when we had a new group of local investors, right. So friends and family who have brilliant experience in business came in and they were a little skeptical of the product and all the things that it Looks like it can do. So the study that we did is really a pilot study. It's not published. It was a proof of concept for folks who were investing with us to help us keep moving. So we took 25 volunteers at a recovery treatment center who had been in recovery for at least a year and had an assessment. So are you stressed? Are you anxious? How do you sleep? You know, on this mood scale, and then had them use the product daily for three weeks. And the results at the end, every person improved in most. So there were 18 measures. So every person improved in at least 17 of those measures. Now, some measures more than others. You know, are you angry? Are you sad? So those things improve. And when you, when you have a mood lift, even a little bit, then you stop seeking solutions. You stop seeking things to push the pain down or to push the sadness down because you feel okay.

Yeah.

And sometimes feeling okay is great compared to feeling really rotten.

Wow. I mean, the clinical aspect is great. What you just spoke to is the emotional aspect. I love this because on your blog, and we're going to link it right now, I'm actually just going to paste it in our comments here. There is this phrase that I love because your company, yes, you're a technology company, but you're also blending wellness here. And wellness, in my experience, is physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. And so unless somebody has an awareness, first of all, of what's going on in their body, if they're disconnected from their body, if they're shallow upper chest breathing, if they're constantly scrolling on social media, whatever it is, Amy, you and I could fill in the blank on so many things that stress people out and make them feel unsafe to be at home in their body. But what's really, really cool is your company is focused on this somatic intelligence. And for people that don't know anything about somatic intelligence, can you go a little bit into that? Like, what is somatic intelligence? How does this device play nicely with that and what does that actually mean?

So somatic intelligence is really being aware of what's going on in your body. And, you know, I mentioned it earlier, paying attention to it. So it's not as simple as, I have a stomachache. It's, I'm sitting with my family at dinner. Where am I? Where is my head? Am I excited about this? How do I feel? How do I literally feel? How do. What is my breath rate? What is my heart rate? And if it's fast, why? Yeah, what's happening? So the what now is super important. Once you Identify those things. And that is one of the pinnacle points that we really wanted to address when we started developing this product was there are so many things that read and measure what's going on with you, whether it's a digital wearable or if it's you, that somatic intelligence, just really paying attention to yourself. But now what? So we wanted to add to the now what? Have something simple to go to or practices that, that are at your disposal at any time.

One of the greatest things about somatic intelligence is this is about being resilient. So the title of the blog, I believe is Tuning in. Right. And it's cool because in some of your media I've seen that this device, if you're just joining us on Facebook, we're talking about Zen. And this is direct stimulation to our vagus nerve which allows us to relax. This is breakthrough science. I mean, 2014 is when the physician found this. You were working, I believe with him in the hospital at that time. Yes. And you both came across this and you thought about, okay, how do we get people living at home in their bodies, feeling good in their bodies? This somatic intelligence, you know, once you know how your body responds to stress and trauma, you can use that, you can use that as a starting point to have a better relationship with stress. Because let's be honest, we're not ever going to get rid of stress. I mean, some stress eustress is positive for us. Cold therapy, breathwork, going for a run, you know, working out. These are all things that are really healthy. But it's this somatic intelligence that science is learning so much about and why your company's grown so much. Can you share with us how you yourself have been using this device? How it's allowed you to tune into your own somatic intelligence?

Sure, I use it for sleep right now because I'm just in the midst of all that's going on and I think we all have a story to tell right now. 2020 is going to be the year of stories for all of us.

That's putting it lightly.

Yeah. But for me, I typically don't like to go to bed early. I'm a night owl. I'm self proclaimed night owl. It's not actually good for me and I don't do well the next day when I don't sleep. So I stay up too late. Then I'm excited and I can't settle down and la la la. So I put this into my essentially bedtime routine so that an hour before I know I'm supposed To go to bed. Then I do a session, 15 minutes. And sometimes I use music, sometimes I don't. It just kind of depends on my mood and what I'm doing. But I sleep so much better. My husband sleeps so much better when he uses it and I know when he hasn't because there's a lot of tossing and turning. So my REM sleep has gone up. And you know, I speak for myself. I careful to say that every person is so different. But I did buy the Oura ring for myself and my team.

Yes.

Because we wanted to see things for ourselves. You know what, let's. Let's check it out on ourselves. How does it really do for our sleep? Personally, we know what's in the literature. So I see more REM sleep, more deep sleep and fewer moments awake. What's considered awake by the digital tracker. And I just, I wake up feeling more refreshed. So on a daily basis I will go. Because I've been doing this for so long, there are plenty of days that I realize I haven't used this in my routine and I pick it up because I'm either irritable or I can't focus well. I use it also during if I have a deadline to meet or I really need to focus on something that's fairly time limited, especially if it's something I don't want to do or I may not be very good at, then I'll use this right before that. Help me settle down and it really helps me focus.

If you're the kind of, if you're the kind of person that has trouble sleeping, this is not a supplement that you eat. What's really cool about this is. And they talk about it in the blog, I just linked it here. Nirvana Life how tuning into your body can promote resilience. What's really cool about this is there's some tips in this blog, but one that I love is breathing, sighing, the power of touch, tuning into your heart. Like literally people forget hand on the heart is medicine. We had a neuroscientist, Dr. Kaira Bobina on the show and she did a vision quest and she was telling us that when she placed her heart on her, she put her hand on her heart, it was medicine. And she realized as a doctor herself the incredible power of connecting with your heart. This is way beyond just emotional intelligence. This is biology, this is science as well. But when we combine the breathing, the sighing, the connecting with our body, the somatic intelligence, the brain and the body use this somatic intelligence during or after stressful. Moments. So if, let's say we had a moment during the day, maybe for all the moms out there, like your kids are screaming, you're like, oh my God, someone please give me a break. Would this be something you could use for acute stress management or is this also just more for general wellness? Is it both? Like, how does that work as far as cycling this device and using the device on a day to day?

Right. Great. Super great question. So for acute situations, especially when people are really off balance. Right. That the stress level is through the roof. I always say I can feel my carotids. They just feel like they're gonna come right out of my neck.

Yeah.

So those moments, you actually will feel a more profound effect because you are so far in the sympathetic state that getting the vagus nerve to engage even a little is palpable. You can, you can feel yourself, you feel the wash come over you. Okay. So normally vagus nerve stimulation is pretty subtle. It's a lot like, you know, if, if you start with breath work, if you start with vagus nerve stimulation, anything that is stimulating the vagus nerve, it starts off pretty subtle. As you, as the brain recognizes what that relaxation feels like, it's so much easier to get there, stay there for a longer period of time. And that's because the brain is neuroplastic. Right. So it's learning new things or remembering things. So I've seen many, many people that it's taken them two weeks before they can even appreciate what the effects are and be able to describe it. And I really, my theory is that they've never been relaxed before. They probably have never been there. There's a small population of patients or people just physiologically that won't respond. So I think that's, it's really important to share that because we're all unique individuals with very unique anatomy. There is a small percentage of folks that are just non responders and. But you have to give it a good amount of time when you first get started. So healthy individuals, if you look at some of the studies that, that look at heart rate variability as an endpoint or a marker for parasympathetic response with vagus nerve stimulation, they may not see a statistically significant change in hrv, but those are typically on people who are already super healthy. So these are on healthy subject trials and the people may not have a lot of stress. So I've seen that in some of the literature and we've actually gotten some feedback from customers who say, you know, my heart rate variability really didn't go up. And I'll ask, well, what was it to start with? And it was already good there. Everyone's looking for an edge, but they really want a big edge, not a tiny edge. I think elite athletes, high performance folks are looking for the tiny edge, whereas the rest of us are looking for a silver bullet of some sort.

Yeah, the silver bullet is like this futuristic, imaginary, illusory thing where it's like, oh, if I can just be at this, or if I can just have this. But it's all just. I've come to terms with this, especially in 2020. It's all just a joke. This is not a silver bullet. This device is an ancillary tool that can help you tune into the natural systems in your body that'll stress you less. That's the whole point. And so I don't want people to think like, oh, you know, this is Amy and Josh having a conversation about this device. And this is the thing that's going to save your life. It won't save your life. You save your life. We save our lives because we're conscious and we're aware enough and we're somatically integrated enough so that we know when we're stressed and we can have the courage. This is what it's about, Amy. We have the courage to make the changes in our life that are really most important. Now, having courage is something that we can only do when we're aware of what's going on. So how does this device put people in a deeper state of awareness? Because the emotional quotient on stress is huge. So what does this device do for emotional awareness?

The way I'll put that is when. When the vagus nerve sends that message to the brain and says, everybody relax. Or, you know, whatever the message is, it's really. The relaxed message comes from chemical neurotransmitters that naturally occur in the body. So what we know is acetylcholine, norepinephrine, serotonin. These are the upregulated neurochemicals that are circulating when the parasympathetic is stimulated or when we're upregulating the parasympathetic. So when those things occur, they're actually the brain from the norepinephrine. This is what's interesting. And I'll get back to what I used to think about norepinephrine. So now I know from the neuroscience side that norepinephrine is key to learning, cognition, focus, all of these things. Whereas when I was a nurse, in the hospital, norepinephrine was a drug we would give patients to keep their blood pressure up when they were in shock. Right. So I'm sure I learned about it in physiology class, you know, that it was something that circulated in the neurosystem, but in the hospital environment it was something totally different. So, you know, when I talk about my journey, this is what I'm saying that I've gone from clinical to now I'm in the neuroscience and wellness world with technology seeing, I mean, the brain is unbelievably complex and so well created that these things are things that should be normally happening within our bodies and within our minds and within our systems. But we've put all this external stuff, whether it's intentional or not, stress, foods, you know, just kind of put out your laundry list there. But these we have to get back to where we can initiate and activate the parasympathetic system to help us with emotional awareness. Focus. And I think focus is really that part, once you're able to look internally, you can see your own emotions, you can see how you're feeling. Just depends on what you're focusing on at the time.

It's a beautiful scientific explanation. And I want to go back and ask you how your view of norepinephrine has changed. But what I was feeling when you were speaking was this glass of water. You know, if I take a spoon, which is stress, and I just stir up the water, I can't see through the water. I mean, the water's moving, there's a storm going on. In order for any of us to take a step forward when it comes to better wellness, better health, better love, better connection, we have to let the water calm down, people. We have to let it calm down. And so how does this relate? We had a question from Van Lee, Vanessa, and she asked what advantage does this have over meditation? And it's a two part question because I think for most people, sitting still when they're stressed out or sitting still when they're triggered is about the hardest thing to do. So does this have an advantage over meditation or is this really a supplement and a helper to meditation?

I think it's both. So I am not a great meditator and it's really because I haven't tried. Okay, so just being honest, Amy's honest. Super honest, folks. So, because I feel like you have control over your situation and if you, you know, something like meditation, if I tried hard enough or if I spent enough time doing it, or if I went To Tibet, you know, I'm sure I would get there. Yeah, Right. But maybe I just. I don't want to spend the time doing it. I've prioritized other things, so that's just me. If someone is a meditator and they are doing very well or they're early in meditation, those are kind of two different things. So if someone's just starting out with meditation, this is a good precursor because it starts balancing your physiology before you start. And we even see that in some of the learning literature where people are teaching things and they precurse it with a session of vagus nerve stimulation and then they do a learning exercise. So this is just learning meditation. Or if you're an experienced meditator and maybe you're off your game, or maybe you don't have time or it's not the right place, or now you have to commute and things change. Right. So things change in life and we have to look at how do I still get the benefit if I can't physically take the time to do it? So I think you can replace periodically TVNs, which is transcutaneous. You can use this and get the same stimulation of the vagus nerve that you would get in a meditation session. Would you feel as good about it? I'm not sure.

This is really powerful. It's really powerful because whether you're spiritual or whether you're a scientific person, the proof is in how you feel. So if you're feeling like you had talked about when we were speaking of addiction earlier in the conversation, if you're feeling better, every moment is a new moment. Our gut cells renew every couple of days. Our thoughts can renew if we're conscious of them in this current moment. So if I'm feeling better, and if people are feeling better that are dealing with stress and anxiety, that is the moment to change. Like the power to change is now. It's not just some social media meme that we see on Instagram. My question for you is, if somebody is in this state, there's an element of music that Nuvana brings in. You can link the device through an app for Spotify. I love binaural beats. I think they're phenomenal. I've read some of the science on them. I'm curious if we talk about this new moment, because this is what's most exciting for me. This new moment where we're in control of our respiration. We're using a device to down regulate the stress in our body. How does the element of music play a role in that and have you done any corollaries with binaural beats with the Zen device?

So binaural beats are. They're tones, right? And they come in and out the two headphones and they. The way they sync is it's almost like brainwave syncing. So with. With pairing the vagus nerve stimulation signal with binaural beats, it just depends. Sometimes we can pick it up with the stimulation pattern, and sometimes we can't. So I'll explain it for people who don't really know how the device works. So we have a couple of modes that you can use. There's sensation mode, which is really just the stimulation pattern. So it may go slowly up and slowly down. That's mountaintop or ocean waves. That's just no music. It's only the stimulation pattern slowly increasing and decreasing over a period of about 15 seconds total. The music option is it was originally designed because what we had read in the literature is that people were struggling. They were nervous about electrical stimulation in the ear. So we read so many studies, so many, and talked to a lot of scientists and they said, people get nervous, so it's really hard to see the effects of the TVNs because they're anxious about the stimulation. So we said, well, gosh, okay, well, it's an earbud format. Let's put music with it and sync the stimulation pattern to the music. So it's a little more predictable. Yeah, so it's more like, hey, I'm listening to my music and, you know, the stimulation is dancing along to the beat. So with binaural beats, the technology that we use for the music following has to pick up certain frequencies of music. So it's a slower, more. I don't even want to call it melodic, but it's more of a slow wave music. I would run the sensation mode with binaural beats so that you're still getting the stimulation and the binaural beats and you're sort of doubling down on all of your parasympathetic efforts.

I love that because you can use any song you want, I mean, no matter what music you love. And again, if you're just tuning in right now, we're talking about really at the core of wellness. And that is a calm sense of safety, a calm sense of being, inhabiting your body, inhabiting your body with love. And we're really discussing this parallel between healing the body from the inside out or having to use something from the outside in. And I'll say this, a lot of people challenge me, especially when I used to Host panels for CES in Las Vegas. They would say, well, if the body's natural and if we are all organic and if we're all sentient beings, why would we ever need something from the outside in? And I'll say this, we're not in the world of nature anymore. We are living in cities. We are not as connected to nature as we've been. The nature of medicine has been removed from our lives. Certain conscious devices like the Zen are here to reconnect us with the natural ways of being. Now this is the time we're in. We're not in our grandparents era, we're not in our parents era anymore. And so we really get to outsmart the world and outsmart the demands of the modern world with technology's good side. Because I believe this, Amy, and I'm curious how you feel. There are some dark things when it comes to technology, but just like anything, there's a blessing, there's a curse, there's a good side, there's a bad side. This device, this vagus nerve stimulation is a beautiful side of technology. It's allowing people to feel at home in their bodies. It's giving them compassion for themselves in each moment because they're connected to who they really are. How do you navigate this world? I'm sure you guys could have cut corners. I'm sure you could have done things faster and made a lot more money, but lost some integrity. Can you talk about what I just said, that the double edged sword of technology?

Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I think when we looked at technology, so I don't know if you've seen our first generation product, but I brought it so that you could see it. So it looked like this, right? So it looked like a little transistor radio kind of thing. Yes. So with, with the headphones. So we learned a lot from that device. And the way we learned is yes, it was technology, but part of it was listening to people and listening to what they wanted, what they needed, what they thought we meant. We're learning. I think you and I had a conversation earlier that we're learning every day how to, how to make sure that people understand what we have, the opportunity that they have to improve their own wellness whether they use our product or not. I mean, that is not the point. It's bringing education to people is our most important focus. The technology of the product. As long as people feel like they have access to something and support education to use it. And this is not something that really can be abused. I hear that. I'VE heard that question before where people have asked me, can you get addicted to vagus nerve stimulation? I said, I don't know, can you get addicted to meditation? Can you get addicted to breath, work, breathing or.

Right, yeah, anything good for you. It's kind of a nice addiction, you know.

Right. I said, well, you know, I, I think it's. It's not the, the means, it's the feeling. Yeah. And that's where I think this type of technology is important, because it's not detrimental. You don't have to play. Yes, it's an app on the phone, but the reason it's an app on the phone is so that we can update it for you whenever. And you don't have to get a new one. You don't have to buy something different. We can just change it through the app. And if a new study comes out that changes everything that we know and changes the electrical parameters and says, oh, wait a minute, this is really the thing now, then we can say, oh, okay, great, well, let's change it and we can do it that way. So that's the reason it's on the phone. It's not because we need anyone staring at their phone. You can, once you set it up, you know, all the controls are on the app. Then you just put your phone over here.

Yeah, yeah. And it's great because we want to be connected in nature, connecting with each other. And there's certain things that we use the phone for now that I don't think anybody ever predicted. I mean, can you imagine? I'm 40, so I know what it's like to have one of those phones that you rotary dial. I'm pulling the time machine lever here. Okay. But I used to do that, and I never in my wildest dreams could have imagined that we'd be living in a situation now. I mean, think about this. I had dreams of, like, at some point in my life, like hosting a radio show. And here we are, I'm doing it through a computer that I didn't even know would exist when I was a kid. The imagination, human imagination is so exciting. There is so much good in this world. There is so much love in this world. And this device, I believe, is a byproduct of that. The imagination that came through to have a device tune in to our vagus nerve and actually calm ourselves down. I don't think anybody could have ever predicted something like this. What excites you the most about this field of anxiety reduction, stress reduction, which essentially allows people to suffer less and Love more like what really lights you up about this whole field?

I. Well, the field itself. I am so excited and literally amazed at the things being studied related to vagus nerve stimulation. So I'm so blessed to be a target of communication because people, researchers want to know, hey, can I use your device for this or that? So I get to hear what's going on out there in the research world, around the world. So, you know, on the phone with folks in Amsterdam or Canada or New Zealand. So that really excites me. Everything from inflammation to sleep to learning a new language. I mean, those are opposites in every direction. The anxiety piece, you know, we all have folks in our life, maybe ourselves, who've struggled tremendously with anxiety. And we are never going to say that this is here to replace anything. However, when I talk to people who legitimately use VNs, use our product in particular, you know, just because those are the conversations I have, but they're using less medication, that makes me so happy because so many of the reasons that we're on medication is because we think this is going to fix something. You know, I have three kids, they're teenagers, so their, you know, attention span is the less than a goldfish kind of thing. And so everything, especially with TikTok.

I'm sorry, TikTok. I'm like, really? Another app that we're scrolling on.

But you know, they're used to, they want things happening like this. And we've all adjusted. We're all in that same boat. It's just the kids may want it, you know, two seconds faster than we do, but feeling better. It literally has to be an intentional journey and people need to put some work in. And I say that with conviction because we've become too comfortable taking pharmaceuticals, taking a pill, not worrying about side effects or anything else that's going on before we actually try things that we could do for ourselves. So understand as a nurse and as, you know, as a clinician who's been in the hospital for 20 plus years, I would never say don't take medication. That's just not even a thing. However, if something's anxiety related, mood, sleep, there are other things you can do to try to help yourself first. But a lot of times we got to put the work in.

Yeah. Where the rubber meets the road and is knowing versus doing. And a couple years ago we had a guest on the show. It just completely opened up my mind and heart and it was this powerful phrase that. It's exactly what you're saying, Amy. Knowing without doing is the Same thing as not knowing. It was Dr. Dan Party. And I felt, oh, my gosh, it changed the course of this podcast because we are always exploring on this show that space between knowing and doing. You know, the real curve of intelligence that we talk about, and I know that nirvana stands for it, is I gather information, I apply information, I test, I use my meditation, I use my. My Zen device, I do my breath work. I have conscious conversations with people that I care about, and then at some point, this magical thing happens, and it gives me chills. Just to even explain to you, like, we embody something. We don't have to strain and struggle and fight for the peace, because the peace is just there. Because we've done the gathering, we've done the work, we've done the applying. But like you said, it takes conscious effort. It takes real effort. And that is what I believe I'm most concerned about. And I'm curious how you see this, the solution here as we look at the stimulation of the vagus nerve. What's happening when people are on their phones and what's going on in their stress system where they're scrolling and they're reacting to news? What is that doing to their respiration? What is that doing to their psyche? What is that doing to their biology? What's really happening when people are addicted to their phone?

Well, I. I don't know that I know the entirety of it, but I do know that the reward system in the brain is typically. It's a dopamine release, and it's this rush I call it. It's like gambling. Right? So everything is. Oh, that was. That was hilarious. Let me keep going. Just. And, you know, you have something else to do. You know, you have things that you need to get to that are either responsibilities or that this is just not good for you. So. But. But I. Oh, there's probably one more funny thing that I can get to or one more catastrophic thing that I can read about and. And be really sad about and then share that so that everyone else can share in the misery of whatever is going on or the hilarity, whichever, you know, whatever mood you're in. But it is. It's a. It's a dopamine surge, and that's been documented in plenty of studies. That's what's going on with the phone all the time. And you can imagine the conversations we have in our house with teenagers. But I think everyone. We all just need to set the parameters for ourselves. I was thinking about it, and, you know, when you sleep, you Set an alarm clock. Some people don't have to, and I envy them. I think that's great. But you set an alarm clock because you get up and there are things you need to do.

Yeah.

So you could do the same thing with your work patterns or responsibilities and say, I'm going to set a timer for 30 minutes. I'm really gonna grind it out, or an hour or whatever that is. If I get in the zone during that time, then I'll go past, but otherwise I'll get up, I'll do something for myself. I'll set a timer again so I don't overextend. I think we have to train ourselves because the addiction will take us far outside where we need to be.

You were in that world for a while. I think most people end up in. In the hospital. When addiction takes an ugly route. And it's near and dear to my heart because, you know, in my family, there's just addiction everywhere. And let's be real, it's everywhere. As Gabor Matei says, the world's leading addiction specialist, addiction is essentially the opposite of human connection. It's either a loss of connection to oneself, or it's a loss of connection to our brothers and sisters, our family, whatever it is. When people are not at home in their bodies. And I go back to this again, because it's super important, when people are not at home in their bodies, they're going to wind up in the hospital. And what you saw over the course of 20 years, how many things could have been avoided? How many people could have not been there if they would have just learned what it was like to be at home and to love being in their own bodies?

Wow. So many. So my career in nursing, when I went to college, I actually was part of the wellness team. So I worked at the wellness center. I, you know, did wellness assessments with college students. It was the greatest job ever. And while I went to nursing school, that's what I did. So I was very comfortable teaching people and helping them on a nutritional journey. And this is, you know, this is in the early 90s. So this is a long time ago before the really cool stuff was out that we know today. But when I went through. So I started off in trauma icu, so I saw plenty bad decisions. Alcohol, drugs, and the types of accidents that people would get into because of really, really poor decisions. Moving past that, I transitioned into surgical icu. I then went into cardiovascular icu, and I then I started managing these areas, the cath lab, the electrophysiology lab. And then I actually wound up. Before I left the hospital world, I ran the entire cardiovascular service line, which is where the majority of these stress related illnesses come in. So people who had no idea how terrible smoking was or just couldn't stop, didn't stop. Whatever the reason is. I've seen multiple amputations, gradual amputations because of poor health, poor decisions. I've seen traumatized families because their loved one just couldn't get their addiction under control and lost their life. I've seen catastrophic heart attacks that probably that patient would have been grateful if they had died because what they wound up with was a stroke and heart attack. And now they can't move on their own. They're living in a nursing home and they have a family who now has to come visit them not at home, because they don't have the capacity to do it at home. So, you know, I've really seen the gamut, most of which probably people don't want to hear about. But those are the things that drive me to say, we've got to do better. We have information. And when you talk about technology, we have it. Why not use it? The good stuff? And part of the good stuff is like you're saying the computer. Who knew we'd be able to type in anytime we wanted and actually search for good information? You know, I thought that you had to have those, the encyclopedias on the wall at home because you couldn't get to the library all the time.

I love what you're saying because there's an ocean out there and most people get lost in the ocean because people. And this is the part of our industry that really just. It causes me pain, but it also motivates me from. From a place of pleasure and happiness and imagination to serve. And that is if I'm lost in the ocean and I need help. Unfortunately, there are predatory practices where people take advantage of people that need help, that are having anxiety or addictions or whatever it is. You can trust that. That's not the space here. This is a really loving space here. I felt your heart, Amy, the first time I talked with you and your team on a Zoom call when we were planning this podcast. I felt it this entire interview and I'm just so excited about this device in the world. It's a huge honor to be able to have this conversation because so many people that can't meditate or maybe haven't heard of our Breath program, or really you're just stuck in that cycle of addiction. Like, this is a way out. This is A true way forward because the water's still within yourself. So thank you for coming on the show. There's a couple more questions I want to get to the bottom of with you, but I did want to mention for the people that are with us right now, you can get this device for 15% off. Amy and the team at Nuvana, super generous. You just go to wellnessforce.com stressless. When you get to the website, you enter the code WellnessForce, 15% off. It's a huge discount. Thank you. I know you're a startup and so I know that that's a big deal for all of us and so we really appreciate you. The code is WellnessForce for 15% off. The big question for me here is for the people that understand the emotion behind this, that's one thing. But for the people that really need the science, there's a powerful, powerful study that we're going to link in our show notes. It's from the School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Leeds. Non invasive vagus nerve stimulation in healthy humans reduces sympathetic nerve activity. This is a scientific study that was done that actually tells us we can shift over to calming ourselves through this. You said there was an update to this study, so we'll link the study for people that are science minded. But what was the update that came from this Leeds University study?

So, so I'll kind of touch that. The 2014 study, they literally did invasive nerve monitoring on the perineal nerve which is in the back of the leg. And when they initiated TVNs through the ear, then they measured the nerve response, checking sympathetic or parasympathetic response and it actually down regulated the sympathetic system and they saw an upregulation. So it wasn't only up regulating the vagus and the parasympathetic, it was actually down regulating the sympathetic. So to your point, it was a really, really phenomenal study. Their follow UP only targeted 55 year olds, 55 year olds and up. So they were really looking at a longitudinal little bit longer study. So it wasn't just minute to minute, it was how do people react over a period of two weeks? And Europe has some of the most phenomenal studies because they have a real focus on prevention right now. And this study looked at quality of life, mood and sleep in individuals 55 and over because it's known that the autonomic nervous system sort of gets a little stretched out, a little worn out as you're getting over 55.

Sure, you've been through a lot at that point, right?

So you kind of need to tone things up. So as we also encourage folks as they get older, use strength training, make sure you're increasing your bone density and all of those things. Actually, you need to stimulate the vagus nerve so that you can keep that parasympathetic system engaged and that it will respond. That it will respond better. So they saw better mood, better quality of life and better sleep in those individuals. They tested HRV also and what they found were that, like we talked about earlier, people who were way more off balance, who had really low hrv, they responded much better, which is not surprising.

It's so powerful, especially when you're, when you're in that bracket. So if you're with us right now and you're in your 50s, 60s, 70s, this is very safe. This is a non invasive piece.

Now.

It works if you're in your 20s, it works for any age. Right. There's no age bracket or conditions that are not supposed to use this. And let's talk about that too. Is there anyone that this is not for?

Yes, I'm glad you brought that up. So anyone who has an implanted device already, so some electrical stimulation device that they have implanted, we don't want to cross signals with any of that. So pacemakers, ICDs, it's really just, we haven't studied it, we haven't seen it studied and we would rather not put anyone in harm's way. So we say don't do that. The vagus nerve here at the ear. So with my little headphones here. So we target this area, that's the little triangle in front of your ear. Right. So there are a bunch of nerves actually that come out of this area. The facial nerve, the trigeminal nerve is nearby. So if you run it at high intensities, which some people like to do, if you have tmj, it may aggravate the tmj. So we would say if you have tmj, probably not.

Just tone it down a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So low, really low stimulation level, if at all.

Okay, awesome. Thank you for that. Because it's a big deal that people know. Again, like, this is a powerful tool. Like a really powerful tool. I hosted these panels at ces and I'm not going to name any names, but there were so many companies and they were just like profit first, no matter what. And in some of the devices, like you'd wear on your wrist, they were promising that they would change your life. And it's like, you know, what I get from you and what I Get from this device Zen and from just even trying it. It's this calm, non forced type of messaging where it's hey, this is going to help you. This is going to supplement your calming effects of your body. But what I get from you is like there's no hype. It's not like oh my God, because I'm sitting here going, wow, look at this science. I want hype it out, but when I look at your website, it's just like, it's just honest. So thank you for that. And my very last question for you is at this intersection we've explored, we covered a lot of ground today. The show notes for this show are going to be like 50 different links. So for all you science minded people, go over to Wellness Force and make sure that you look at the science. But at the center of all this, you know, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual, right in the middle there is this quest that we're all on and it's to live our life well. So how do you, Amy Brannon, how do you live your life well? What does it mean to live our life well? How do you define wellness?

Wow, that's really a big question. Wellness for me is being able to take any opportunity, any situation and whatever I'm facing and actually react. It's my reaction to it. So how well I am depends. My reaction to whatever is going on is going to depend on that. So paying attention to that, if I'm irritable, which usually someone will tell me because I would never admit it on my own, but if I'm irritable, then something's not right and there's some part of me that's off balance. So whether I need to kicking up a notch with sleep or maybe eat because you know, hangry is real.

Yeah, I've experienced it personally.

Yes, frequently. Right. It's not good. But those things. Well, is being able to react and respond to the things around me in a way that's reflective of my values.

Wonderful definition. Again, thank you for your gift of 20 years of service in the medical industry and now seeing what works and what doesn't work and just being honest about it. Amy Brannon, thank you for coming on the show. We covered a lot of ground again, like is there anything we missed? Is there anything that you want to leave our audience with when it comes to this vagus nerve stimulation, what you're doing with Zen, Anything about Nirvana?

Well, I think, you know, first of all, I'm super appreciative of the opportunity to talk with you and we rely on people like you, who are really. You have no real opinion until you dive into the science yourself. So we appreciate folks like you and your audience for helping us carry the message so that we don't have to be hypey. I just. We don't. It's just not who we are as a company. So I just would tell people, whatever tools you need in your toolbox, then get them, try them, experiment, ask questions, and be willing to put in a little bit of time into yourself. And just the rewards are exponential.

Wise wisdom, wise woman. Thank you for coming on the show. Until we see you again out there in Facebook land or on YouTube or on this itunes, we are both wishing you so much love and so much wellness. We'll talk to you guys very soon.

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