Biohacking Coach: I Found The Secret Ingredient to Self-Optimization

When we turn a ship around, we're going to be pointing in the wrong direction for the majority of that turn. It's only until we get the ship turned around where we're on course. So that's what we need to realize. That's the integration process. We're not integrated until we integrate. I believe as a society we've fallen in love with intellectualism and so we're seeking an authority figure and you just can't think for yourself. So the integration portion is realizing that there is a part of us that's archaic, that is indigenous, the mythical, magical element within us. When we transcend to those levels and include that, when you get to the intellectual level, you're a true intellectual.

There's so much freedom in acknowledging actually where we are on the ladder instead of trying to hold up this heavy iron mask and pretend like we're somewhere that we're not.

The biohacking begins here. It doesn't turn into biohacking once you pull the gadgets out. It's mind, body, soul for one person. They might want to do all the red light sauna, all the ice cold plunges. I'm into all that stuff, but it's not necessary.

Yes, all the tools and all the therapies, they're awesome, they're fun, but they're really pointing towards something a lot deeper.

What is it that you want authent and what is it you're pursuing inauthentically? Because this particular venture is just representation of everything else that's going on in your life. So why are you called to that? Is there something in your world that says you need more energy in order for you to show up in a certain way, to be accepted by your family, lover, children? By yourself. And that by yourself one is the hard one. Why are you withholding your best self while at the same time judging yourself for not being your best self? Are you ever going to be enough? Will you ever get there? Because if you're empty when you start, you're empty when you get there.

Hey, it's Josh. Before we get into this episode, I have a small yet powerful favor to ask of you. The community has been growing by thousands lately and the bigger the tribe, the bigger names of world class guests we can have on this podcast that I can bring to you from my heart, from my curiosity, so you can have more wellness and wisdom in your life. Would you please be so kind as to hit the subscribe button wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. It'll allow us to rise Naturally in the algorithms based on your 2 second act of generosity by you just tapping that little subscribe button wherever you're viewing or hearing this episode. Thank you so much. It means the world to me and our entire team here at Wellness and Wisdom. Now, enjoy the podcast. Jerry, welcome to the podcast, man.

Thanks for having me. It's cool.

Oh, my God. It's been a marinade getting you here, dude.

I've been. As you know, I've been following your podcast for a long time, and your shows are epic and your guests are amazing. I'm completely humbled to be in this chair right now.

Hey, I'm humbled to sit with someone that has the balls to follow their dream, which is really this concept of freedom or truth. You know, biohacking truly.com is. Is your website.

Yes, sir.

And so it's been a journey, man. We actually got to work together.

Yeah.

A couple of years back and like a client coach relationship. Now we're just brothers. We're both on the front lines trying to get people to wake up to what's actually going on inside of themselves.

Yeah.

So they can get out of slavery, but give us, like the high level view, you know, if somebody doesn't know Jerry Kuykendall, and that is how you pronounce your last name.

That is it.

Is it Alaskan, Samoan? What is it?

It's actually Dutch.

It's Dutch. Yeah.

Yeah. And you can tell by looking at me. You know, I'm totally Dutch.

Yeah, you don't look that Dutch. But seriously, man, I was looking forward to this because, you know, you flew out to Austin and you're here and you come, you hail from Montana, which is a beautiful land, and you seem like you're a man of nature. Even some of your. I remember on your body mind biohacking guide, you were doing exercises in nature. So you're. You're a man of nature.

Nature.

But we're in this digital world.

Yes, sir.

So we can juxtapose these two worlds on the pod today, but from that vantage point, like, describe who you are. Now. Don't go into your story yet because I want to. I want to unpack that slowly. But describe how you're of service now in a few sentences from like 30,000ft in the sky. Like, who's Jerry right now? What does he do?

Yeah. So I would say that, like the quickest, most like, distilled version of is I help busy parents get their life and their health back.

Okay. So you help me.

People, whole situation. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's people like yourself who. Who are showing up as their very best. But quite often they don't give themselves the credit for what they are doing in life. And that's where the whole get your life back part is, is recognizing that, dude, you're doing your very best. And if there's something else you would like in your life, a different result in your life, you can make it happen. But if you can't make it happen just a certain way, and it can't be absolutely perfect, go easy on yourself. Love yourself enough to give yourself the credit and the acknowledgment for where you are at and accept that, embody that, let that sit. And as we talked about before the podcast, allow all that truth to set in. And what do you want to do with that from here on out?

That's a very deep answer to what do you do in the world? And I'm sure that's probably morphed and transformed for you over the past three, five years. One thing, I was looking at the site in this phrase, Personal integration coach. Yeah, Personal integration. What does that mean to you, this concept of integration? And why now, bro? Why now is integration so important as we go through this Watiko mind virus and censorship and really the attacks from the technocrats that are trying to reach into our unconscious.

Yes.

And. And maybe like turn our brain into mush in some ways and become automatons? It's really sad what's going on. It's not doom and gloom, because I believe in the light. I know that what we're doing in the world, and everybody here with us believes in the loving side of that equation. But what does that mean, you know, to be a personal integration coach? It's much different than just fitness.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Tier, I'll start off with. With acknowledging your point. And when we turn a ship around, we're going to be pointing in the wrong direction for the majority of that turn. It's only until we get the ship turned around where we're on course. So that's what we need to realize. So part of turning the ship around is being off course for a large majority of that turn. That's the integration process. We're not integrated until we integrate. And why is it so important? So I would say this is a bit of a personal opinion, but to your point, about what's going on in the world where they're infiltrating our psyche and they're able to do that because I believe as a society, we've fallen in love with intellectualism. And if we take a look at, you know, like, Hawkins model of consciousness or even Wilbur's model of consciousness, you know, we started at the archaic level, and if we're lucky, we ascend to the integral level of consciousness, or in the Hawkins model, it's the ineffable state. But in between, there is, like, the intellectual level, and we've fallen in love with intellectualism. And most of us don't give ourselves the credit for how we're showing up in life. And so we're seeking an authority figure. And we've been taught that the people who give us direction in life have a white coat or they are a teacher, or they are. You fill in the blank. But it's some level of intellectualism, somebody that's reached a mark that you're not going to attain, and you just can't think for yourself. So the integration portion is realizing that there is a part of us that's archaic. There is a part of us that is indigenous. There is a part of us, the mythical, mystical, magical element within us. And when we got all that, when we transcend to those levels and include that, when you get to the intellectual level, you're a true intellectual, and then we can just keep striving to get towards that integral level of consciousness. So that is really nuts and bolts, Whether it be in your diet, in your digestion, in your movement, in your spiritual body, your soul, health, all of that must be integrated in order for someone to really show up for life in a way that they accept. Because it's not objectively whether or not you're doing the right thing in life. It's, are you accepting where you're at right now? Yeah.

That's a big one. There's this adage out there. It's like, fake it till you make it, which I think is total.

It is.

I actually, like one of my old friends and mentors, Dr. JTA, he said, be it until you see it.

Yeah.

And I like that a lot more because language is power, man. When we're talking here in the podcast, we're literally praying to each other. Right. We're casting spells. So one thing I love that you said about Integr is that there's this ladder, there's this model. Whether you look at Hawkins or Wilbur, and we're all climbing the model, but there's really freedom. There's so much freedom in acknowledging actually where we are on the ladder. Instead of trying to hold up this heavy iron mask and pretend like we're somewhere that we're not. And it makes me think of your journey, because I remember when we first started coaching a few years before that, you had just left corporate America.

Yeah.

Like, you were literally like, I'm jumping off the cliff. The parachute may or may not have fucking holes in it, but it's going to be great. Go back to there and tell us where you were in the Hawkins model then and connect with that earlier version of yourself. Because, honestly, what's so inspiring and what I've been leaning into more and more and more on the podcast is I cannot have wisdom unless I apply my life experience with compassion for myself. So take those two things and put them together. You know, when you share. So somebody out there is watching and listening, and they don't like their job. They. They don't like where they are. They're not stoked on their relationship. Something in the five is off, right?

Correct.

The physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, financial. Something is really off.

Yes.

Share your story from that vantage point of compassion, life experience, and just where you used to be back then. If you could pull the E brake and float the time machine back then. What year was that for you when you said it?

I'm out.

I'm not going to do it was grocery stores, right?

Yes. Yeah. As a grocery store manager for 15 years. So I was. I was definitely in. In this state of. If you were, let's apply it directly to, like, Hawkins, you know, and listeners. You can just look that up. David, The Hawkins model of consciousness.

It's on the screen right now.

Oh, okay.

It's literally on the screen right now.

So if we're looking at, like, the levels below 100.

Okay.

Right. If. If I like to do this thing with my clients and. And my friends and people I love and myself. When you want to snap out into a new level, tell the truth and admit what's tough to admit. That'll boost you right up there. So if we look at the lower levels we're stuck in, you know, some sort of apathy, resentment, envy, anxiety, anger. And that was literally my day. I would walk around, start my day walking around the store. And I had everything, Josh. I had the retirement, beautiful, loving, supporting wife, and she's getting even more beautiful, if that's even possible. Loving and supporting.

Hey, she likes to hear that. The kids.

And I don't say it enough. The kids, retirement.

Right.

The whole nine yards. The white picket fence.

Did you actually have a white picket fence?

No. Okay.

Metaphorically, like.

Yeah. Chain link. Right. Okay. But. But here I have everything. 28 years old making six figures debt free and I just could not find happiness. And I remember I'd walk around the store and. And I wonder if everybody thinks this way. But I'd say, you know, if nothing changes in five years, this is still going to be my day. I'll be a little older, a little more gray, probably this hip issue I've been battling, you know, at the time is probably gonna be a little worse. And then, you know, you do that for a few years and you're just like, something's gotta change. And at this time, I was complete atheist. So I didn't believe in any big picture. So throwing nihilism on top of that. And I would say it was about 2017 when I had a. A monumentous event. And we, we can get into that later. But it was literally a light switch moment where that's when my atheism stopped. Because the voice and what the voice was saying and doing within me, it was non local, bro.

What do you mean? What was the voice?

So I was, I was on this annual fishing trip. And this fishing trip was my escape every year, right? Escape from the life I didn't like. And I remember like it was yesterday watching my father fish. We were fly fishing the Grand Ronde River. And if anyone's ever been to the Grand Ronde, you know that they have the bighorn sheep. And the bighorn sheep are just clashing, clash. And I remember looking up to watch them in my stupid hungover state and it was like. And I shit you not, it was like they stopped, looked at me and the look I got from them was, who are you to think you can watch this happen? You don't even believe in the Creator. And I was like, whoa. And then the word suicide hit me like a ton of bricks. It wasn't like auto, it was just a download. And I was like, what was that? I had no conscious knowledge of any self harm or anything like that. Wouldn't surprise me if we dug deep to find subconsciously there was some stuff going on, but nothing outwardly. And I was like, what was that? Hit again. And I'm. I go weak. What the hell was that? What is this all about? And I'm saying it out loud, what is that? And then I go, who are you talking to? You don't even believe in anything, right? So that set the wheels in motion of this whole, what we call an awakening. The Kundalini started rising, baby. And then after that I got into holistic health, yoga, all that stuff. But at that time, I was very much Ingrained in those lower levels, the below 100. And as I started getting into this holistic way of living, more integral way of thinking and doing, I started seeing the world different. I mean, it was like I was transplanted in a completely different world. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? It was quantum leaps. Just Friday. I didn't recognize who I was compared to Monday. And what I realized now is I started getting really honest with myself in my situation, which was something that was not a pattern for me in my life. And what I know now is the minute you can put your pride aside, have the courage to tell the truth and admit what's tough to admit, you all of a sudden change your vibration. Now, how much time and energy do we spend doing the opposite? It, Right? The answer's right here. It's right there. The answer's there. I don't like that. So I'm going to spend all my time and energy going around it. And that's how my life was. That's exactly what I was doing. Nothing was my fault. Nobody was acceptable in my views. Nobody did a good enough job, nobody worked hard enough, Nobody appreciated me enough. And gee, I wonder where that came from. Right?

Maybe from childhood.

Yeah.

From me, right? Yeah.

Yeah. That was how I saw myself.

Our childhood lives within us and our. And our epigenetics are turned off and on by our environment and whatever's inside of us that hasn't been processed. But I almost remember, I'm flashing back to a call we had many years ago where there was this connection to your father.

Yes.

And that connection was something at the time you were working on. Was that something that was buried when the ram horns clashed each other and they all of a sudden stared at you? And by the way, was this a moment where they just looked? They both turned and looked at you, like, with their eyes hit yours?

What really happened? I couldn't tell you, but in my memory, that's exactly what happened.

Okay, so this is like a true spark, spiritual awakening moment by a stream in the middle of nature.

Literal.

And you had never done any deep spiritual work before that point?

I'd never even meditated. And what I know now was that was my week of meditation.

And what year was this?

2017.

Okay, so like literally five years ago. Wait, five years ago? No, 2017. Seven years ago.

Wow. Probably five years ago when we first.

That's right. That's right. So seven years ago you had this moment where you heard the clash of horns from animals in nature, and they looked at You. And it awakened something in you. But it was crazy because the voice that you said, which obviously was like, God coming through you, that voice said, suicide. What do you make of that? What is that?

So I actually got an answer to that at later on. I ended up getting into meditation. And, you know, thanks to, you know, my work with. With Paul Check and the Institute, you know, we got into Carl Jung a lot. And so I got into this meditation and. And I was like. I remember I was like, done with my meditation and like, the little rascal and he's like, oh, ask. Ask the question. Ask question. So I was like, oh, yeah, what was that suicide all about? And I got an instant download. You needed to kill the current version of yourself. And I get chills now even thinking about it, because later on, maybe I. Maybe I'd stumbled across this. This dynamic earlier on and it was coming out subconsciously, but I wasn't aware. Later on, in studying Carl Jung's work, he made that. That statement himself. You know, a man must kill his current version of himself in order to become who he truly is. Or something like that. Paraphrasing here.

Amen.

And so that's where that came from. Did that answer your question? I'm sorry, for sure.

Suicide. Because I was thinking, where did it come from? Was it you wanting to kill yourself? Which is unfortunately, sadly. I know that word touches so many people in the audience because we've done podcasts on grief, and I know there's somebody watching or listening that's had somebody unfortunately take their life, which is so sad, but it wasn't about actually taking your life. It was letting the previous life die.

Yes. Taking my life back.

Taking your life back. Letting that. So what did it actually feel and look like? Because this is the catalyst, right? The catalyst for you to let go of the grocery and, like the cat and the old corporate model and. And step into what we all go through, which is like fumbling around, how do I build a website? What's a lead magnet? How do I get clients? How do I make money? How do I live my dream? How do I live my purpose? We stumble around for a little bit, and I think it's honestly, bro, that stumbling and that intimidation that keeps people stuck exactly where they are, married to the life that's sucking all the vitality out of them. It's the fear of what it might look like or the uncertainty of what it might look like for me to change my life, and that I must have more courage than I have now. But I disagree. And I Wonder how you feel. It's not that we have to have this huge bolus of courage in order to face our fear. We actually generate the courage by doing the thing that scares us. Ralph Waldo Emerson. Do the thing and you'll have the power.

Yes.

So what was that like for you? Especially at that time? You had kids, you were married, you had a fat, juicy 401k. This is not the grounds for most people to make a jump into uncertainty.

Yes.

So what, what exactly was that for you?

I had to admit that everything that you thought was important in life, it's 90% wrong. What I got right was family's important. Love and connection are important. Providing is important. And it was that providing element that brought up all the doubt. But then you got to ask yourself, what does providing mean? And I asked myself, what does providing mean? Financially? Sure. But for me, what gifts can I really give the world? Because that's, that's what my children represent to me. And it's like, dude, you'll never be the guy, at least in this state where financial provision is going to be your big legacy. But I do know that I know how to be healthy. I do know that I know how to get strong. I do know that I know how to look at my thoughts and my emotions and how they affect me and everyone around me. It doesn't mean I'm always good at it, but I do know that. How valuable would that be to my children? So can you admit that you're choosing to share that only in a limited capacity while you spend all your time earning six figures? Earning six figures, great. But making a hundred thousand dollars a year is just enough to keep you trapped and keep you stuck. Sure, you don't feel wealthy. You feel completely morally bankrupt because you're given 60 hours a week to some evil corporation. And I say that with, on a literal level for the corporation I was working for. I can't say for anyone else listening what their corporations like. But the corporation I was, I was, I was working for was absolutely evil.

Who wasn't?

I can't say. Because they made me sign a non disclosure agreement, right? So that they would give me four week severance after 21 years of employment.

Because maybe they knew they were evil.

They did. Well, yeah.

Interesting.

There's a whole story behind that. Okay, we can get into.

Maybe we'll get into it. Okay. I'm really curious about this because, you know the. In, in meditation this morning, I was sitting in the five minutes that I had. Sometimes that's all we get, dude. We get like, five minutes to just, okay, what do I want to create? And I was feeling into it, and I was thinking about this title, Biohacking Truth. You know, there's so much distraction in the world that people maybe that are in your old version, working at the corporate job that they don't love. I know I'm speaking to somebody's heart right now. I can actually feel them. I can feel their frustration. I can feel. Feel their discontent. I can. I can see them. And I know where you are, because I was there, my friend, in 2015. I was right there. 2014. 2015. I had sold my soul for this providership that I thought I was supposed to do, that somehow I would keep my dreams in one bucket and I would have my professional responsibilities in the other. I didn't know that I could create my own reality with thought and merge those two worlds. It wasn't a thing for me.

Right. Right.

I just didn't have the consciousness. Right. So I can look back on that. That previous version of Josh with love.

And compassion, but also I'm speaking to the person who's with us now. You don't have to have it all figured out. You don't have to have all the T's crossed and the I's dotted, but you do have to have a few ingredients. Now, what do you think those ingredients are when you look back on your story and just speak in the affirmative?

Like what?

Like, let's say somebody is right now exactly where you used to be.

Yes. And.

And describe where you are now. You're coaching people across the world. You're leading movements on social media. You're getting people into their bodies. You're them. Breathe and think well and move and all the different things that you're doing@Biohacking Truth.com. but. But back in the day, you weren't.

Yes.

So what did you need then that you have the wisdom to look back on now? If you could have given yourself, like, three ingredients back then to make the jump, what are those ingredients for that person who's stuck there now?

For me, it was authenticity, acceptance, and love. So those were areas of my. Myself that I was intentionally blocking off. I was not willing to share that. I was not willing to be that vulnerable in those areas.

You didn't let young Jerry come out to play.

Absolutely not. Young Jerry, you just shut up. You sit down, all right? You stay in the trailer park where your. Where your heart is, and. And I'm gonna get us out of this mess.

Did you actually live in a Trailer park.

Oh, I grew up in trailer parks. Yeah. I never lived in a real house until I bought one.

Was it like poverty consciousness when you were growing up?

Huge.

Okay.

Huge. In fact, one of the things that. That I really had to decode out of my. Out of my psyche was there are the haves and the have nots. Now, on some level that's. I mean, objectively, you could look at and say, that's objectively true on some level, but that's if you're talking about possessions and finances and what have you, you can't take away my authenticity. You can't take away my acceptance, and you sure as hell can't touch my.

Love unless you choose to give it away.

Unless I choose to give it empowerment.

Yeah.

Or keep it blocked. And I was consciously and unconsciously doing that because that's how important they were to me. Yet I wasn't ever visiting them. I wasn't ever letting them out to play.

Dude, this is a big one. The authenticity permission slip doesn't come from anyone else. And we think it does. Right. Like, I even thought to myself, when I make my first hundred K, then it'll be like this relief. And it actually was way harder. And then I'm like, okay, when I make multiple six figures, then I'll be okay. Nope, didn't really solve that. That equation. I'm sure the same thing exists when you say I'm going to hit a million dollars. Like, you know, that's probably just mo money, mo problems. To quote Biggie Smalls.

Yep. Yep.

So I'm like, all right, if it's. If it's really an inside job, if freedom and avoiding distraction isn't about getting the coolest red light therapy device or falling into the trap of like, and I love you, Dave Asprey. It's all good. But, like, you, you do sell a lot of products, my friend. You know, there's probably like 300 products that he's backing, Right. And I'm sure they're all great, but there almost needs to be a ca. And this leads to my question. The caveat needs to say this device or this thing or this. This biohacking tool may not be the truth. For you to get the authenticity, the vulnerability, and the love and all the things that actually matter the most to give you health from the inside and from the outside. Can you go into that?

Yes. And I'm glad you asked this question, because even the term biohacking in. In my world of holistic health. Right. There's almost become this little Bit of a, a little bit of a abrasion between holistic health and biohacking. But I've talked to some of the biggest names in the holistic health game and they, they kind of have that viewpoint towards it, but it always boils down to their personal subjective opinion of what biohacking is. Has nothing to do with what biohacking truly is. The founder of biohacking, Dave Hasbray, you ask him what biohacking is and it'll be. He's had. Got a couple different definitions out there, but it boils down to being intentional about what you do so that you can create the optimum physiology for yourself. Now for one person, they might want to do all the red light sauna, all the ice cold plunges, the breath work and meditation and all that for them to feel optimum or for them to say, I think I'm healthy and this is my groove, this is my jam. Now I'm into all that stuff. That's all part of my routine, but it's not necessary at the end of the day, really. It's, it's a holistic health approach as well, in my opinion. This is just my, again, subjective opinion about what biohacking is, is. I would even say that biohacking would, may be the masculine representation of holistic health where holistic health can kind of have more of a, more of a. I would, I almost don't want to say feminine, but I guess that's, that's where I'm going with it. More feminine approach to it. Because men, we get point where we think we can't be masculine and we, you know, but, but we, we know we have to be, we got to be the divine masculine. Right. So what's the answer for a lot of guys, slow down, calm down, get present, get balanced. And it is getting more in touch with your feminine side. So I would say just to break it down, that's really the only difference when there is no difference. So the, the truth of the matter is if you are drinking a 2 liter of mountain Dew every day and then going home and drinking some Miller Light, not judging, if that's what makes you happy, then I'm glad you're happy.

That's one hell of an indigestion cocktail.

That would be, that would be.

I wouldn't recommend Dew in Miller.

I would not recommend it.

Yeah.

However, if you take that individual and you say, can we swap the Mountain Dew for water? That's biohacking. I'm sorry, that is changing your external environment to alter Your physiology.

So how do you define biohacking now compared to when you started?

That's exactly how I still define it. It's just. It's just being intentional about what you do so that you can optimize your physiology. If that's your goal. If that's your goal. For some, it just stops with diet and exercise. But you're hacking your physiology. You're changing. And I think, just think, that word hacking turns some people off. Sure. But I also find it ironic because the same people say biohacking is bad. You know, next thing you know, you'll see them on Instagram. They're posting something about perennium sunning and drinking their own urine and.

Yeah.

And it's like. I'm not saying any of that's bad, and I'm sure there's benef, but let's just. We're all on the same team. We all have the same goal, which is to help humans, you know, do their best.

I was gonna do the butthole sunning recently, but then I realized my neighbors might judge me. And also, it's really cold here in Austin, so I just didn't feel like shrinking and being outside and putting my butthole towards the sun.

My question is, how do you know when it works? I don't know.

I don't think there's some kind of barometer. Where's the data on butthole sunning for it actually to work?

Exactly.

But this is so funny, and I know that's kind of a silly joke, but there's a part of biohack so fringe and so weird on the screen right now. There's a study that I was looking up earlier, and it was about different people in Silicon Valley that were investing all this money into biohacking. And what they found was that it really didn't make these CEOs or these executives function anymore. It just gave them a hobby. So some people have biohacking hobbies where they think it's cool to buy, you.

Know, 10k, 10k cold plunge, thousands of.

Dollars in all these supplements.

And I think, honestly, that's the part that I want to dig in with you on is like, there's this shadow of biohacking. And I think all movements start out pure. Look at feminism, right? I think at the core of feminism, it started out with purity. Obviously, it's been completely bastardized. Look at the core of biohacking. When it started, it was probably just, hey, there's some curious energy that I have in my mind and my psyche and the collective I want to see what's possible by using these tools. But then as we go in any movement, it amalgamates into something that's not pure. It's like it loses its core, it loses its starting place. If you were to describe what you've seen in the industry over the past seven years, right, because that's how long you've been in this journey of coaching clients. And with biohackingtruth.com like, there's a really big lens that I see that I felt from you since the beginning where you were like a no bullshit guy, American flag, Montana father, fly fishing. Like, like you're not here to around, right?

So.

So there's a part of you that, that I know really cares about sussing out the truth when it comes to biohacking and exposing the lies. How do you do both of those? What do you see in biohacking that let's, let's speak to the women, let's talk specifically to women. What do women need to know about biohacking?

So I'll start off with addressing your point because I think it's a very good one. And what came up for me when you were talking, which is what you're talking about, is like an archetypal pull into, I need to do something different. I don't like the way I feel. And for one person, it might be getting into yoga or Pilates for someone else, for whatever reason this biohacking world has applied to them, that's an archetypal pull. And that biohacking represents a symbolic representation of what could be relief for them. So they're really being pulled to the symbolism of the biohacking, what that represents for them. And through the course of doing that, they never interpret the symbol. If they go sideways, does that make sense? So it's like you have a dream. This dream is telling you something. Interpret the dream and do something with it. Interpret the symbolism that is calling you archetypally to say, what is this I am truly seeking, what is this I am truly desiring? And I would say for females in particular, and I can only speak anecdotally with the work that I've done, but there is this common thread of the motive behind why they're doing it is generally being pushed and motivated by some sort of societal expectation. And if I'm being bold and I'm being honest, women are being asked to be more masculine in the world and men are being encouraged to be more feminine. So what does that look like? Well, you know, if you're a Busy business, professional. And you are attempting to climb the corporate ladder. And people have told you because you're a woman, you're gonna. You're gonna struggle more. And I've never been a woman. I'm not saying you're not, ladies. And, you know, I'm not saying that's not true. I'm just saying this is what I know is being touted out there. So perhaps some of those women that would be more attracted to what I would say is more of a masculine approach to holistic health or optimizing your physiology, maybe there's something in their internal world, external world, that leads them to believe that you need to approach it in this way. So I would say for a woman, for a man, but particularly a woman, be authentic with yourself. If what you want to do is dive into your feminine and take some more time off, relax, rest, not try to compete with the world, then don't. And if. But that. If that's what you truly authentically want to do, then decipher the symbol that the biohacking world is. Is. Is pulling out of you.

And when you say the symbol of the biohacking world.

Yeah.

Like, your logo's on the screen right now. It's got the. The A's, the C's, the T's and the G's on it. Right.

The.

The spherical with the. The double helix in our genetics. What's really fascinating about that to me is that we use symbols so much in our life to just understand by picture. Like, if you want to talk about real symbology, we understand so much by pictures, because even if you're a child or a grandfather or an adult, we all learn by metaphor. We all learn by archetype. We learn by story.

Yes.

So unconsciously, what do you think that women are looking for when they want to, quote, get into biohacking? What. What exactly is that in a sentence or two?

They're trying to close their story gap.

What do you mean by that? What's the story gap?

Who they authentically want to be or what they authentically want in life and where they're at now. So what is it that you want authentically and what is it you're pursuing inauthentically? Because this particular venture is just representation of everything else that's going on in your life. So why are you called to that? Why are you compelled to immerse yourself in your optimization at this point in your life? What is it that's pushing and pulling you there?

And a typical answer might be like, oh, I just Want to feel better? Oh, I just want to look better. But there's. But it's something way deeper than that.

Exactly, exactly. And it's even more. It's even more of an intellectual approach. Like. Well, I watched the Andrew Huberman podcast, and he says I need to take theanine and lysine and Huperzine. A why? Well, lab tests show and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, okay. Is there something in your world that. That leads you to believe that you should be more intellectual in your approach? Is there something in your world that says you need more energy in order for you to show up in a certain way to be accepted by your family, by your lover, by your children, by yourself? And that by yourself one is the hard one? That is a very hard one for most people because, I'll be honest, not a lot of people think on that track, well, why is accepting myself so important? That's a question only you can answer.

So there's some depth there, obviously.

Yeah.

And the depth is connected to some kind of end result they want. Maybe the end result is loving thyself, but the road to loving thyself. And I know we've talked a lot about women.

Let's go.

Like, one more question for women listening. Earlier, you said that our society is pushing women to be more masculine, and it's really making men more feminine, which I'm fully in agreement on. It's sad that that's the case. However, we can speak a narrative that begins to vibrationally pull people out of that. I do believe that. And so if there is something that they're really looking for in this symbology of biohacking. Women. Women. What is it exactly, besides loving themselves? What they want to be seen and felt by as them, and then also what they want to be seen and felt by from others. There's obviously the core and the depth that we probably can't go that deep into on this podcast because there's so much more I want to cover. That's a big one, though. Like the acceptance of self, I think. I think, yes. All the tools and all the therapies, they're awesome, they're fun, but they're really pointing towards something a lot deeper.

Correct.

Right. So what else besides that depth of love and acceptance of self are women really seeking from biohacking? Is there anything else?

Yes. So I would. And this can be quick, but I'm gonna throw out, I don't know, nine phrases here. And for the listeners, I would like you to just maybe close your eyes and Go into your heart right now. And as I say these. Notice if there's any physiological change when I say I'm a bad person, I'm unworthy, I'm worthless, I am inadequate, I am incompetent, I am alone and unsupported, I am incomplete, I am weak and powerless, and I am loveless. So those are all very common, at least in the work I do. And this goes into Dr. Stephen Wolinsky's work, Quantum Psychology, Way of the Human, Volume 2. Read the first four pages. You'll understand where I'm getting here. But for each individual, one of those is a major theme in their life. And when you can quantify that with them, help them source, dismantle and dissolve the effects of that belief, everything changes. Everything. So to answer your question, I would say for the individual, getting down to that will help explain the archetypal pull and the symbolism that is in play, that is calling them, because that is their representation of the relief from that belief about themselves.

So somebody rew. Somebody is rewinding this or watching this again. And whatever one of those phrases that you spoke, whichever one creates the most constriction or the most. Most breathlessness in their nervous system and their body when they hear it, that's probably the space to go into. To go into deeper. Yes. Trusting the body, like the somatic experience when the verbal processing happens, when we actually hear what you said, that's a big one. It actually can be that simple. A lot of people are so, I guess you could say lost about where to actually start. Because biohacking and health and fitness and wellness, there's an ocean, truly an ocean to drown in. As far as, where do I start? Some people are like, should I go carnivore? Carnivore. You know, should I. Should I put baby oil on and just walk outside in the forest all day long? Should I be in a tent by the river like Eugene?

Should I just spend my life. Should I spend my life 90% in nature? Well, not everybody can do that. And there's many different places to start. Where do you think that men. Let's shift the conversation to men. For men, it's. There's this. If we're being feminized as men, what do we need from biohacking to truly embody more masculine qualities?

Yeah. So I will go to the first principle of attunement. Right? That's. The principle in my system is attunement. And through attunement, we can be aware. Through attunement, we can Accept through attunement, we can dismantle. Through attunement, we can turn that ship around knowing that we'll be pointing the wrong direction for the majority of that turn. So for men, it's big to go into your authenticity, because if. If you've been told by the world that you need to show up this way, you need to show up that way, don't show up this way. I need you to be emotionally available. I need you to protect the family, provide for the family. Don't ever lose your temper, though, because I don't like it when you, you know, when you get that look on your face or when you. You get that tone in your voice authentically. Take a look at. Take a look at how you're showing up and why you are withholding your best self. If you are, if you are, why are you withholding your best self while at the same time judging yourself for not being your best self? So this goes into, like. Everybody's got certain parameters that they believe need to happen before they show up. And so we can take a look at. We'll take one example. Like, for me, when you boil it down to my personal belief, which is I am powerless, weak and vulnerable, that is the thing that I cannot experience. That is the thing that I'm least willing to feel. Tell me I'm inadequate. Whatever. It's on you, right? Tell me I'm an imperfect. Yeah. So. But if anything in my world leads me to form a belief that in this situation I'm weak and vulnerable and powerless, that is the thing I will not feel. Now for me, my, my. I'll show up when message to self is when I am totally secure, I am totally stable, no one in my environment is going to take advantage of me, and I will never lose my power and control over situations, then I'll show up. So it's a complete lie to self. It's a complete fallacy that that is even important, but that that's even possible. Because what am I? What am I? What do I personally determine is something that's a power leak in my life? When do. When do I objectively say, now I'm vulnerable?

So do you feel like there's some part of biohacking that is calling to a man's heart, to his psyche, so that he is powerful, and if so, how exactly?

Yes, absolutely. So I'll just use myself as an example. I was drawn to it because I saw the power in being able to manipulate things in my habits and behaviors to make me achieve a Certain result in my physiology. So optimizing myself. We got to be very careful in knowing the difference between power and force and, and what is truly powerless, what is truly vulnerable. Because sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is to be vulnerable. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is immerse yourself in the situation. And sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is to remove yourself from the situation and let other people shine. So as far as biohacking, and that's why, that's why, you know, I prefaced it with, with it being a largely subjective determination what truly is biohacking, what isn't? Right, it doesn't, it doesn't turn into biohacking once you pull the gadgets out. But in my mind, the biohacking begins here. This controls it. All right. On the physiological level, we can get into soul and all that stuff later. But, but so for a man, getting in touch with your level of attunement about what you truly are or who you truly are and how you want to show up and is that healthy? Healthy. So it's being attuned to all that. And it's deep work. It is deep work.

But this is the mapping that you do initially with a man, maybe a father, who's lost his way. You'll go into this type of psychology map and then the tools and the physical practices and the breathing and everything comes after that or at the same time.

Absolutely. Because if someone is, if someone is being driven by their, you know, their false core, like that's what those, those phrases were. Really?

Yeah.

If someone is being driven by that, then like if you want to get in shape and you want to get a six pack abs and you want, you know, you want to feel the breath work because you want, you want optimum methylation so you can go and just kill it in the workplace. Right? It's like, oh, okay, so you want to earn. What does earning represent to you? Okay, well if you keep chasing that belief when you're 70 years old, are you ever going to be enough? Will you ever get there? So I'm not in. I have zero interest in helping somebody enhance a pathology. I have zero interest in helping somebody chase their false self all over the world. Now that doesn't mean the goal will ever change. But why we're chasing that goal is gonna night and day difference. Night and day difference. And so you will be able to know that day one, when you take that first action, you're winning, you're winning. You are taking steps to live in alignment with Your true authentic self. If there is no arrival point, there's no. When I get to multiple six figures, then I'm here. There is no, you know, when I can bench press 300, then I'm there. Because you're. If you're empty when you start, you're empty when you get there.

Yeah. That's so good. If you're empty when you start, you're going to be empty when you get there.

Yeah.

So many people that start the journey and maybe they come to you because I've seen some of your cool posts and I guess you could say not mainstream posts on Facebook that you post, some of them are political, some of them are health driven, but I noticed there are like hundreds and hundreds of comments all the time. Like, it's really been amazing to see that growth on Facebook for you because there are so many people out there that are lost, specifically parents, and their tank is empty. So if their tank is empty when they start and they have an improper map about their authentic self, their true motivations, what's actually pulling them towards wanting to use biohacking to be truly healthy and vital, then when they quote, quote, get the six pack or they have all the things that they think they wanted, they're still going to show up empty.

Correct.

What, what is the different fuel source? Like, what's a different path of motivation to start with an empty tank and finish with a full one?

Yeah. So it's like foundational stuff. And in fact I created an app and it's basically the first course on there. You go in there and it is, it's getting down to all the, what I call foundational motivation. So motivation is multi layered, multifaceted. You can't break it down into two components. But for the sake of simplicity, I'm going to. So you've got your foundational motivation and then you've got your sustaining motivation. So foundational motivation is why are you doing what you're doing? What's your purpose? Right. What is your true. How do you identify with yourself in the world? And in each situation your identity comes into play. Everything you face, how you identify and your purpose comes into play with, with whether that situation bothers you or not, whether you're going to take action or not, whether you're going to let that keep you stuck or not, whatever. But your foundational motivation has to be centered in purpose. And you know that purpose, that purpose is deep seated. It is like the foundation of your empire. So to build anything, you've got to have a foundation. Then you put up walls and a door and windows. So foundationally speaking, why are you doing what you're doing? And you can't know that if you don't know those other things that we discussed. So that's your foundational motivation. We take a look at, like, explain it like a campfire. So to build a campfire, you need. You start out with some paper, then you throw some kindling on there. Medium sized logs. Eventually you're throwing big logs on the fire. Well, those big logs turn into smoldering hot coals and that's what we cook on. So you've got to have that, that big log motivation. You got to have that big log smoldering. That's the stuff that gets you through. We call it discipline. Right. Sometimes you guys do something when you don't want to do it, even though it's because it's the best all the time. Yeah, but you have to do it. It's like that anterior singular mid cortex or something. Huberman just did a thing with Goggins on it. But that's the area of your brain that actually grows when you do those things you don't want to do.

That's right.

Right. Do something that sucks every day. Right. Those are the areas that grow. So that's what gets built in that foundational motivation. The small stuff, the white hot stuff, the, the hot burning tinder. That is the David Goggins on Instagram. Running, running down the street, what the fuck have you done today? It's 4am I thought about taking a day off and I knew there's some out working me and I can't handle that. Right. And it's like I'm sitting on the couch eating Oreos. Damn. I'm going to the gym tomorrow. Right. And that gets people into the gym. But that burns fast and it burns hot. You have to be able to know why you're doing what you're doing. So you need both components. You need that, you need that, the foundational motivation. And you need the walls and the windows and the nice furniture.

Yeah. We have these characters in the world and that's funny. I've talked about Goggins a lot on this show and I'd be fucking so stoked to interview him.

Oh, man.

I don't think he'd come on though, because I think I would challenge him too much and he'd probably be like, you're too soft, pussy. You know, because. Well, here's, here's why. I think that he's a great character in the movie that we're all playing out. You and I are characters. We're all playing our part. Even the evil vil have their part. Like, everybody's got their part. And so in order for this movie to continue on, which at the end of it all, there's no thing and everything at the same time. And you and I are individuated points of that consciousness, living out God's self so God can know God in unlimited ways. How's that for a mouthful? But that's what I really feel is going on. And it's not just because I learned that from Paul. I also feel that in my own life because there's been so much mystery that's unfolding all the time where I never know what exactly is going on other than just to feel into my authentic role in the movie.

Yeah.

And Goggins is playing a really special role.

Yes.

What he does is twofold. I think he's also being of service when he does videos like that. I also think he's being a huge disservice because what happens is you have these young men specifically, that are lethargic, playing video games on Twitch with headsets.

Eating McDonald's, staying up all night, no.

Girlfriend, maybe never had sex. Like, this is a really huge growing.

Population, free porn of that younger generation.

And so Goggins gets in their face and yells at them, and he actually touches their wound of shame that they've been pushing down from the video games and from the food and from staying up late. And so in a way that pain motivation, lower on the frequency scale for Hawkins, gets them out of despair. Right, because to quote Schwarzenegger, right. Anger is more powerful than despair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, anger is more powerful than despair.

So.

So Goggins anger, Goggins shaming. Hey, get up, bitch. Pussy. What are you doing? That's good, actually, for that one piece of the journey. But it's not the sustainable bigger log motivation that you're talking about. And this is actually really key. Like there's that external locus of control motivation from him, but the internal locus of control where I love myself enough to throw log after log of sustainable thick wood on that fire, that only comes from a deeper place.

Yes.

Right. So what is your role? So Goggins has his role. Yes, we all have our role. I'm not actually here to shame Goggins at all. I think he's being of radical service to those men that need it. They really need it. But I think in the wrong place, when maybe a man has gone through a few cycles of wanting to get himself out of despair. He could actually be hooked into that shame model with Goggins and that could be his whole identity. He could then spend his life doing marathon after marathon after marathon, thinking that somehow that dopamine that's released from doing these crazy athletic feats is going to give him peace. But it's not right. It's just going to give him more of that, I guess you could say short term dopamine response from exercise. Yes, but the pain can't be this motivator for a long time. Eventually we all have to come home to peace.

Correct.

Peace is the only sustainable fuel source that we can ever have in this world.

Yes.

So you, we talked about his role. What's your role? How do you see yourself five, ten years from now? You know, with hundreds of thousands of people following you across the world? What's the message that you're sharing then? If you could float in your timeline to the future.

Future.

What is that for you? What, what movie character are you in the future that gives people the internal motivation, the internal locus of control to throw those thick, long burning logs on the fire. So they're not doing it from a place of shame and self hatred.

Yes. So I would say not to be too, too much that guy, but I really envisioned that my authentic role is to take you from that level where Goggins brought you up to. Maybe he brings you up, maybe he wounds your pride a little bit so that you can go up into the courage zone, have enough courage to do what you need to do to be your best self. Yeah, I'm gonna take you from that and I'm gonna bring you up to closer to the ineffable state. And I believe that is truly my role in that. And I'll do things that are similar to Goggins where I'll trigger people. Like, I'll say something triggering. And that's what he's doing. He's just triggering the shit out of everybody. And on a deeper level, he's just really sharing his false core with everybody else. Right. In other words, I can't stand to see the weakness in you. So stop being weak. Stop being a little bitch. Get off the couch. It doesn't matter to him. You got your five miles in. Cool. You got your five miles in. Why do you care if dude's sitting on the couch eating Oreos? Right. You shouldn't. But I think he does. I think he does. And it may or may not be coming from a place of love. I'm not here to say you know everybody. You know how branding and marketing work works. It's not always authentic. So I would say my role in that, when I do trigger somebody in my content, more often than not, I'm letting them know, hey, I triggered you, but I love you, and I want to see the best in you more than you could possibly imagine and realize. And I don't even know you, bro. I don't even know you. And that's unconditional love, is it not? You know, So I would say, to answer your question, getting them to the hero archetype in their own damn life. Getting them to the hero. Because right now, David Goggins is their hero. And maybe someday a guy like me will be their hero. In no way, shape, or form is that where you're going to land for you to be your authentic self. Because someday you will need no heroes. You'll get your gold back from me. You'll get your gold back from Josh Trent. You'll get your gold back from David Goggins because you loan your gold to David Goggins. Say, I can't be trusted with this gold. Can you hold onto my gold and polish it? And I'll look at all your Instagram and I'll watch you jogging at 4 in the morning in the Brain every day. And then eventually, you get me to a state, and Maybe I'll lose £20 and I'll feel better about myself. And then I realize I'm just getting abused by this guy I'm following. Who's this Jerry guy? Oh, sure, there's a neat podcast. I like this podcast clip, man. This Josh guy's pretty real. He's funny.

This feels better. This actually feels better in my gut when I watch it, man. I used to listen to Esther Hicks. Abraham Hicks. Yes. In the shower, and I was, like, so resonating with that content. And then one day I was like, like, all right, I'm complete. I'm good now. And I think we all go through this, where we absorb content, we absorb message, we get downloads from people that help us where we are on the journey. Which actually flashes us back to the very beginning of this podcast, right? Where it was like, hey, can we be honest about where we are? That was one of the core components that. That we talked about. Being honest about where we are is also being honest about what lessons from what mentors don't resonate anymore.

Correct.

And not just keeping them in your fold just because they've always been there. That's like the side of. Of. I guess maybe the Ego that just wants to stay comfortable and be with the same mentorship for 20, 30, 40 years.

Yes.

I wonder though, the only mentor in this world that makes sense for me long term is God. The wisdom of God. It's not a bearded dude in the sky.

Yeah.

I learn about it from many different people.

Yeah, right.

But, but that's my, that's my go to. Because I experience God when I hold my son, when I hold my daughter, when I have a good meal with friends, when I make love to Kerry, Michelle, when we are in nature. There's so many ways that I experience God in my life and that's what keeps my big logs on the fire burning is there's this knowing of God, like a true acknowledgment of God in myself. And also knowing God because I feel it in me and I feel it around me. Like it makes me feel happy just to, just to talk about it right now.

Give me chills, man.

It's not pie in the sky. It's not. Not us sitting around a fire singing Kumbaya. And maybe it could be. And that'd be fun too, right? But, but God is something that you have to earn a relationship with. You cannot. God can't be downloaded in a PDF.

You mean there's no free online course?

There's not. What? There's prayer apps. There's all these ways that I think the dark, the shadows of Christianity because Christianity has a plus side too. But there's shadows of Christianity and all religional faiths that, that actually take the word of God that was transcribed by man as well and they bastardize it and they use it for personal gain. And look at these mega churches in Texas. I mean they have like multi million dollar budgets for a sermon where there's like a horse floating in on the ceiling and people are shouting this isn't what God wants.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or I guess it is because God is everything. Right? So maybe God does want to experience God in that way. But the long pre frame to the question is this. If God. God is part of everything and if God is biohacking as well, what do you think the creator of all things and what do you think God actually wants to express and to feel about God's self through biohacking? In other words, what is biohacking for? And to God? What does that even mean? Why does that exist? Why does that exist in the world from, from God's creation?

Yeah. So I guess the simplest complex answer to that would be.

I like that. Simplest complex.

The simplest complex answer to that, in my opinion and in my perspective, is that part of the human optimization process? Right. Like we mentioned earlier, it's part, it's mind, body, soul. And if something is keeping somebody stuck from optimizing that, connecting to their soul, like I was completely shut off, then this is just another avenue and it's going to develop. And that's why I love, like when people say, oh, we can prove evolution, so that means God doesn't exist. Right. And that's an argument that in my opinion is just silly. So this is just a natural course of evolution. This is just God doing God. It evolved into that. Why? Because there are breaking points or there are gates to entry that people aren't willing to pass. In the, you know, in the fat loss craze, in the, in the steroid craze, in the even holistic health craze, there's so many guys that do not want to hear about holistic health wealth because it just sounds femi and airy fairy to them. Right. Which that's probably pointing to what you really are seeking.

Yeah.

So just in the, in the, in the world of. We'll call it biohacking, it's, it's just a part of God doing what God does. And if we, let's, let's just break down religion. Right? So if you. I'm not going to break it down, but if we say, oh, Sufism can't be correct because Christianity is correct and Eastern philosophy can't be correct because Christianity is correct or Christianity can't be correct because Islam is correct, it's like, well, if God is omnipotent and the only thing, in my opinion, we don't, we can't say for sure what God is. We can all have an opinion and we can all have a belief and inner knowing that we really know it's true for us, I would say one thing we can objectively say is the only thing God isn't is separate. And if God is going to get through to God's creation of manifesting consciousness so God can experience what it's like to be conscious. God Goding, what's that like? Well, I believe it was like a Hopi. And fact check me on this. Do you have Jamie? Jamie, fact check me. I believe it was a Hopi legend that said, you know, the Creator met with, with these divine, divine souls and he sent one to the north, one to the east, one to the west and one to the south. And you know, in the west they created Christianity. In the east they, they created all these mystical religions or belief systems, but at the end of the day, does God could God possibly care what you call God? God. Right. So one might say follow the Dao. The other one might say follow Christ. Another might say, live the Dharma. Well, if you find somebody that's truly living the Dharma and truly living the Dao, and someone who's truly living in their Christ consciousness, what would it look like differently in each individual? Or would it look the same? Are they guided by the same entity, the same spirit, the same energy? I would say, yes, they are. So God sent. God sent one. One entity to the north, and that that entity created Pilates, he sent one to the east, and that entity created yoga, he sent one to the west, and that entity created CrossFit. Right. And through all of those, biohacking was formed. So I would say as a simple, complex answer, that's what that would be my answer. Answer.

Yeah, I like the simple, complex. The. The one part that I was noticing in myself when you're describing that was that I fell into this fitness craze where I was getting this almost dreaminess about having a six pack in my twenties because I was £280 in my life. I was a very big. How you. You were heavy as well. What was your heaviest?

I got up to 230.

230. Okay.

So probably similar composition. Right?

So, yeah, I was. So I was 6 foot 280 pounds in high school. I was a big dude.

Yeah. And.

And I had this dream of. Of wanting to be loved by myself. I can look at it now with clarity, but back then I didn't know I had this dream of wanting to be loved by myself and wanting to be loved by a woman. And I noticed that and, you know, more power to him because the feminine's always calling us forward. When I was in my teens and 20s and 280 pounds wasn't getting much love from the ladies. Right.

Weird how that works.

That wasn't happening. So when I lost all the weight from honestly starving myself, doing the best I could at that time with the level of consciousness that I had, I developed this dark hook in my psyche where I thought, okay, if I can have a six pack and if I can be a personal trainer and if I can shine light on other people.

Well, then I can just keep that dark part of myself dark.

Yeah.

And I see this, this all the time, man.

And I promise I'll get to a question.

No, it's fine. You talk, man. I love it.

So when we.

And this is. I Don't care if it's holistic health.

Yoga, massage, personal training and fitness industry. I see this the most, though. It's the wounded healer shining light on others so they don't have to see the darkness of their own wounds. Because when I hold a flashlight and I shine it at everybody else, well, guess what? I don't have to look right here. I don't have to look at the darkness. I actually want to change that flashlight to a lantern.

Yes.

Because when I hold a lantern out, the lantern shines on me and it shines on you.

Yes.

So I'd much rather be a lantern than a flashlight. And back then, I was literally shining a flashlight because inside of me, there was so much self hatred, there was so much lack of love for Josh and just not even an understanding about what love was. And I've been learning since that day in many different ways. But the answer to all of this stuff, and it sounds reductionistic, but I want you all to just sit with me for a second. The answer to all of this, all of it, is self love. And giving that love to other people, that's actually everything. Now, I know that that's very simple for me to describe, but simple don't mean it's easy. This ain't some, like, foot pedal that we can click. And all of a sudden I love myself and Jerry loves himself and we all love ourselves. Love doesn't work that way. Love is a spiral. Love is always going contraction and expansion.

Right?

Yeah. So the reason I'm sharing this is because, man, it's so important for us to actually commit to the journey of loving ourselves for real. Not just some thing that we say. Not. Not intellectualizing like you described earlier, but a real journey. A real journey to coming back home, to who you actually are.

Yes.

And I think that's at the core of biohacking.

It's.

It's mirrors that, like from red lights and bands and trackers and quantified self and supplements that point us that way. But it's almost like bumper cars, you know we're eventually going to finish the race, right?

Yeah.

And I'd like to say that part of finishing the race and having fun is actually bumping into stuff every once.

In a while, but not spending the.

Whole time being so off course that.

We constantly have to have these life events filled with trauma and drama.

I'm sure you felt these people where.

They'Re so disconnected from the story I'm.

Telling Jerry, that they don't even know what it's like to have Life that.

Goes more than a couple days without drama or rage or anger. It's not that they're off course.

It's just that they're misaligned and they're.

Bumping into themselves all the time.

And at the core of this, dude.

And I want to jam with you on this right now, there is self love. Because I can't love my children, I can't love my business, I can't love this audience. I can't love you unless I love me. That's the start of it all.

Who's doing the loving?

It's so fucking liberating.

Yes.

To say that out loud because, like you just said, and maybe that's where you start, who's loving anyways?

Yes.

So what do you think about that? What do you feel about that?

Oh, man, you gave me all kinds of feels, Josh. It was great. It was great. So a lot of things came up for me, and I'll touch upon the most poignant ones in my mind. And that is, as you describe, keeping the darkness inside from others. One thing that we aren't aware of at the time, but eventually, if you work with the right people or you come across the right, right guidance, you're going to realize that what you are keeping hidden from people, you're keeping hidden from people that are keeping it hidden from you. And when we go back to the concept of dealing, God cannot be a separate. Then when you. When you take a look at someone else and when you truly see yourself and everyone that you see, then you will know right away, when I look in your eyes, I know you and I have a very similar story. And I know the feelings of self shame, self hate, lack of self acceptance, lack of self love. And I know what it feels like. I can't share this. I can't share this with people because they're faking it better than me. And when I figure out how to fake it as good as them, they won't know I'm faking it. But when you brought out the example of the lantern where I'm shining it on you and I'm shining it on me, me that tells me this, this cat is tuned into the fact that there's no difference between you and me. It is us. We are shining this light together. And when I see. When I look in your eyes, I see my eyes. Any emotion that, that. That you're experiencing that's coming up, if I can pick it up in your nonverbal cues, I recognize it. I'm like, I know that feeling. I Know that feeling. And when it comes down to self love and acceptance, like you said, you can't intellectualize it. But I am going to use an intellectual approach to maybe invite people to go into their home.

Well, you kind of have to because we have a mind and ear, right? We're talking a voice.

Someone's watching this with their eyes connected to our brain. Yes, so what when people ask me, how do I learn to love myself? Because one of the questions on our intake questionnaire is, can you look yourself in the mirror and honestly say I love you and mean it?

Oh, people, hey, come on.

They all say no to that.

That's probably a hard, the hardest question on that intake.

It's, it's got to be up there. And so inevitably get asked, well, how do I learn to love myself? And I said, well, it's not a matter of learning. It's a matter of just accepting that you are lovable. Well, I'm not lovable because this. And that's your false core. Shut up.

No, it's not.

Right. But let me ask you this. Who do you know for 100% certain is going to be there with you when you take your last breath? Now, who was there when you took your first breath? Who was with you when you had your first kiss, when you held your first hand, when you had your first heartache? Who was it that you were trying to make feel better in those times that you were experiencing that self shame, that self judgment, that self doubt, that self loathing? Wasn't that an actual act of love that you were trying to take that child within you and pull them out of that state of pain and misery? Who was doing the loving and who were you trying to love? Now you might have interpreted that as I want to impress such and such or so and so or a certain group so that I can be accepted into that group and feel loved. But if your kid's in pain and your kid wants something different out of life or a different experience and you want it with them, do you do that because you love that kid? Okay, now let's apply all that same logic to the question you just asked me. And a lot of times you get tears, a lot of times you get absolute stun, and again, take an intellectual approach to help people get into their heart. So I don't know if I answered your question or not, but you brought up a lot of good things, a lot of powerful feelings.

Yeah, no, you answered it. It because the. Whether it's an intake, whether it's self reflection, whether it's the exercise of looking at yourself in the mirror naked. And do you truly feel love for you? Is love embodied in your. In your cells?

Correct.

Or maybe it's just, do I love myself enough to keep promises about doing my movement, doing my breathing, doing my hydration, having my food, spending time in nature, spending time in quiet. There's a really beautiful place to start for all this because I want to make it practical. It's biohackingtruth.com guide. It's your body mind guide.

Yeah. And in fact, they don't have to do that now. They just go to the website and it pops right up.

Beautiful. So just go to biohackingtruth.com and download the guide. It's cool, because we can actually take all of these things that have been emotionally moving to me to discuss with you right now, and we can break them down to these five foundational practices. And this is what I love. Thinking Functional Fuel me. Time, movement, and breath. It's easy to say those things, but are we actually doing them? Because this is what I believe, and.

I believe this wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly. Because I was a trainer for 10 years, and now it's been 10 plus years since I've been out of the fitness industry. And I think in 20 years, if I could have shortened my learning curve and my own pain curve for myself and every client I ever worked with and every human being that I ever coached and anyone that I had any relationship with, it would have been this one, one wisdom piece right here.

And it would have been, knowing and doing are two different things. Once I know something, then I do. But between knowing and doing, is this bridge of loving myself enough to do it?

Yes.

And that's actually everything, because we live in an ocean of info. People can go to biohackingtruth.com, download the guide that you have for them, and if they actually do it, their life would transform. Literally, their life would trans. You could change your life by just on a PDF, you actually could. But what happens is, as we move in the direction that our mind wants us to go in, our soul starts speaking to us about the things that we've ignored. And it's the things we've ignored that take us away from walking the bridge between knowing and doing. Absolutely. And that's where the crunchiness of life actually exists. That's how we move and grow and love and actually understand us. Jerry or Josh or anybody. As a soul. We. We only get to the other side of the bridge when we make a promise to Love ourselves through all the shit that comes up as we walk it. That's the only way we get there.

That's it.

And so it's not necessarily the perfect plan of how we use the guide or walk the bridge. It's. Please talk to this. Yes, let's talk to this point. How do we love ourselves when we go from knowing to doing?

Are you asking how is that. That an act of self love or how do we actually love ourselves enough to take the action?

I mean, that's for you to decide.

Okay. I love it.

We're on side. A, a great coach, a great mentor, a great guide. They take us from the shore to the shore.

Yes.

Because they know that how to create the bridge for us and they know how to call forth the bridge inside of us to get us from A to B. That's what any great mentor or coach does.

Absolutely.

But they also hold us and they know how to speak to us and they know how to guide us. Because they fucking walked it themselves.

Correct.

I don't take advice from people in, in physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial that they don't have the results I don't want.

Right, Right.

I'm not going to see a $400 doctor that's smoking cigarettes. Right. Like, I'm not, I'm not gonna go get financial advice from somebody that's posting a GoFundMe link because they're broke.

Yeah, Right.

I'm just not. I'm not gonna go get life coaching from a 22 year old who's single.

Yeah.

Okay. Like I'm not a relationship coaching. So, so what does that bridge look like? We know and then we do. There's a bridge in the middle. What has been your own personal journey and how do you coach clients across the world to walk from knowing to doing? That's the crux of the question.

Right.

If you have the perfect answer for this, there's no reason why you shouldn't be a billionaire.

Right.

Because this is actually the human condition in question form.

Correct? Correct. So I actually deal with that a lot. Right. And for me, I found great benefit and saying like, what are your bricks made of in building that bridge? So for Josh, your bricks might be confidence. Right. For me, my bricks might be fear of failing. For someone else, their bricks might be past life experience. But whatever it is, those are what your bricks are made of. Because that's why you were delivered those, those experiences is because that's what you're going to build all your bridges out of. To quote David Goggins, sure. And so we'll just use confidence as an example, right? The reason why I don't build that bridge, the reason why I don't tiptoe out of my comfort zone, because that's where all the growth occurs, is outside the comfort zone, right? And we stay in the comfort zone and we don't go near the edge often enough. And it just shrinks and shrinks and shrinks and presume we got this. I can't do, or whatever. Lack of belief in ourself. But if you're. Let's see, your bricks are made out of confidence. And that confidence is gonna. You gotta build that bridge to get to that. That bridge, the story gap. Well, then I would ask that person, what. What does it take for one to get confidence? What's your belief on what it takes to get confidence?

Or how would you know when you are confident?

How would you know?

What is the evidence of you being embodied? Confidence?

What does that even look like? And some people, they can. They can visualize it. They can picture it. And even if they don't have the life experience, you know, they believe in themselves enough to at least be able to visualize it. So maybe preemptive confidence is there, is their ticket, but for someone else, they need to experience it. And the latter is more. Is more in line with what I've experienced in my work. So we'll take that person that needs the experience in order to have the confidence. So just right then and there, we just dismantle that shit right away. It's like, is that even possible? Is that even possible for you to have confidence in something that you're too scared to do because you don't have the confidence? Well, no. Okay, well, what have you done in your life that you're confident in? Okay, all right, so you've done xyz. We'll take maybe someone who's. Who's obese and has skin problems and digestive issues and. And can't. Can't get a date, but they're worth millions. Are you confident in your ability to earn. Oh, fucking, hey, that's my jam. That's what I do. Okay, tell me how you got there. There. All right. There was some experiences in your life where you had to go get a job, and because you were good at the job, you got promoted. And because you got promoted and you're smart, you saw everything in this organization that was sideways, upside down, and you knew exactly how to fix it. And people saw your brilliance and you got promoted. Next thing you know, you're making A lot of money. Now, it was life situations that forced you into this, into an environment to which you took action. And because you took action, you had results. And because you had results, you had confidence. Confidence. Alex Hermosi, I believe it. It was him that says confidence just under a big stack of undeniable proof you are who you say you are. So, yeah, for that particular example, I would show that person how their belief system, their identity. I am not a fit person. And I'm not a fit person because I don't take action, but I don't take action because I'm not confident. All right, well, you have an identity that you're not a fit person. Okay. We can say right now, objectively speaking, that's true. Okay, so we're going to take that identity. Now, do you have the potential to be fit? No. Why not? Because I don't do anything. Why don't you do anything? Because I don't have confidence. Why don't we have confidence? We already dismantled that. All right, let's put that over here with that. So we got those two things dismantled. Now we've got it all. Now it's time to tell the truth. What's tough to admit. What's tough to admit is fear is keeping you from taking those confidence bricks and putting them down. So let's take some of the confidence bricks from what you've done financially, and we'll start laying those down. So we're going to take your financial bricks and we're going to put them in my fitness bricks. But here's the thing. Tomorrow, after you get through this workout that we've talked about, and when you eat the way we talked about eating, and when you take five minutes twice today to just pause and go inward, just those few simple things, by tomorrow, you will feel like you won. Then you take one of those financial bricks and move it, and you put your fitness brick there. Can you do that? Yes, I can do that. So that would be an example of how we could bridge the gap with. With a particular individual with those sort of beliefs and that sort of identity.

I love that. Actually, I'm letting young Josh come out to play do it. It reminds me of. What about Bob? Have you seen that movie?

Oh, my gosh. Bill Murray.

Bill Murray. One of the best movies. And with your brick analogy, it's like baby steps, right? So he was working. I think it was Richard Dreyfuss who was the psychologist. Baby steps. Baby steps. Baby steps. But it's true. And BJ Fogg in Behavioral Psychology says The same thing. Tiny habits. Right.

Yes.

Or. Or Charles Duhigg. Like there's this model of change. Or near Eyal. They all. They all. Everybody's saying the same thing with different words that you just said. Actually.

Totally.

And it's be clear and honest about who you are and what you're capable of. And also be honest with yourself about where you are in the journey.

Yeah.

And then stack the evidence on a daily, maybe minute wise, hourly, hourly basis. Whatever you need, whatever you need to stack. Start stacking that evidence so that you can actually build a brick wall that turns into a bridge so that you can be free from distraction of all the reasons and all the beliefs that have been created by your past. So it doesn't take you out of this current moment.

Correct.

In other words, I'm building a bridge based on where I am. Honestly, what is it about our psyche, about the unconscious, that just almost at death, at knife point, wants to defend the pride of where we actually are? The ignorance of the cost of that.

There's such a huge cost of faking it.

Yes.

There's such a huge cost of faking it. We waste time. We kill ourselves by faking shit.

Yes.

There's so much brutal honesty and energy, relief and just.

Ugh.

Truth.

Yeah. Tough to admit.

There's truth. And that truth gives us fuel. But what is it in your experience of. Even in breaking down psychology and neuroscience, and I'm sure you've had to go to the depths to really understand clients from across the world, because this is a wide breadth of people.

Right.

What is it about universally in our human experience why the unconscious defends itself at knife point from being honest about where it actually is?

Yeah. So that is like, you ask a million people, you might get like 800,000 different answers. Right.

But there's the juice of it. Yeah, there's something.

My interpretation of what the juice is, is. And I'm going to, you know, pull this out of a book called the Dao of Chaos. And in that, the author really breaks down chaos in a very digestible manner, but he actually succinctly gets down to there's two states of chaos that we. That we all are defending to the death. To not feel, to not experience. And the irony in that is in the midst of avoiding chaos, we create nothing but chaos that has a harder time seeking order because chaos turns to order, like you said. So those two states of chaos are the fear of annihilation. And I don't know. So we don't know how to get what we want. And in order to get what we want, we've got to tell the truth and we've got to admit what's tough to admit. Telling the truth and admitting what's tough to admit inevitably confronts us with ego death. And doesn't mean entire ego dies, but a part of you that you've identified with, maybe it's codified within you. Objectively speaking, I am this or I am not this. Well, what if that were not true? That is the annihilation that we are avoiding and we will annihilate everything else around us to not experience the chaotic states of I don't know, and I'm going to be annihilated. That's my interpretation. And that's what, you know, I'd work with people on that level. And it is damn effective. Is it the ultimate truth? Is it objectively true? God only knows. But it works. But it works. That's my interpretation of it.

Where would abandonment fall into that? One of the things that's come clear for me this year, specifically in my relational dynamic with my lady, has been fear of abandonment. Yes, I was born 4 pounds, 11 and a half ounces, put in an incubator for two weeks, came home. I was born April 29, came home on Mother's Day a couple weeks later. Didn't really get a lot of touch, physical touch in my first two weeks of life. Also, you know, shout out to my mom, I love you so much. Just her dealing with her own mental issues and being manic bipolar. My dad leaving at the two month Mark, like, just a lot of trauma and drama in the beginning of my life. And Mark Wolin talks a lot about this. So does Paul, so does many people in our world, right?

I don't care if it's an ancient master or a contemporary. They're all saying the same thing. And that is everything begins at birth.

But.

But what creates birth is actually the.

Beginning of all things. So we'd have to tie it back to like 7, 8, 9, 10, maybe even 2,000 lifetimes ago. All the epigenetic trauma and expression that's led us to actually be in utero. And then what happens in utero? What happens in the first two weeks, two years, seven years of our life? Everything is connected to everything. And so I wonder, in your model of the annihilation and what was the other thing? Annihilation, Annihilation. And I don't know. This is a selfish question for me, right? Because this is why I love podcasting, because I learn everything about everything. What do we need to know about abandonment. Where do you think abandonment falls into this model of annihilation? And I don't know. I'm assuming it falls into the. I don't know. Or maybe it's both. Because if I am abandoned, I would be annihilated. It's something I'm doing work on right now to. To just be with young Josh and just be with the adult man in me every day and say like, you're.

Good, you're safe, you're.

You're taken care of. Nobody's abandoning you.

Yes.

I've learned specific language, language from Mark Wolin. We did a session with him and we've worked with Margo, who we did a plant medicine ceremony right here in the studio for like. So I've really done the work in the past year.

But what do you make of that? This for. For not just me, but for all of us out there that have been abandoned or that have this fear in our deep psyche and our unconscious and our nervous system about being abandoned?

Yes.

What's. What's the wisdom there? What. Chaos is actually wanting order and how does that plug into your twofold model?

Yes. So at some level, in my experience, because this is not an uncommon theme in my work, in my experience, it boils down to your relationship with trust, loyalty and support. And in the midst of fearing that we're going to lose that because we have this deep belief that we're not trusted, we don't have loyalty, we're not supported, we're alone, then of course, that's, that's the lens we see the world through. And we're always going to find it. You're always going to find that in your own interpretation. So I would like to know, you know, in that particular case, what someone's relationship with ambivalence is. And if they create ambivalence in their life because they don't know how supported they are, and they believe if they're alone and unsupported and ultimately they will be annihilated. And this ties into. If you leave a baby, if you don't pick a baby up and hold it and you just leave it alone, it's gonna die.

It'll die.

It will die. Yeah. And so this is a survival instinct within us, but it gets over expressed because we live in this world that we weren't created or evolved to live in. And that's part of the biohacking truth too, is you are being hacked. So you might as well play offense in life. Play offense. Like call the Plays. Don't let someone else call your plays. So if we're using ambivalence to avoid feeling alone and unsupported, we're doing that because we sense a lack of support. We sense being left alone in the presence of somebody. And it could be just momentary. Right. 99% of the time you. You support me and you're loyal and I know it. But you just said that thing, are we. And then you didn't reply to my text this morning and, or, or you did, but it was really short. So I'm being ambivalent towards you because I don't know where you stand or where I stand with you right now. And if I don't know where I stand with you and I give you all of my trust and loyalty and support and you abandon me, I will die. That would be my interpretation.

But it's. It's so crazy. And this is the story that's unfolding. It's not actually true, but the story lives deep in the cells, the unconscious that says it's true. So it seeks out evidence to validate its belief. To validate, Validate itself.

Yes.

Even if that means projecting that fear onto the person that creates the very thing they don't want.

100.

That's the fucking 360 paradox. Yes. That's a. I project onto you what is not healed in me, which further validates that I'm not healed because I create it in you. And I create the response in you that I'm not lovable and that you should not treat me well because of literally the energy I'm throwing at you.

Yes.

And this is the part where in modern psychology they've really missed the mark.

Right.

Most people go, go to a psychiatrist or a psychologist office and it's like, tell me about your feelings. Tell me what happened. Here's this pill. Like there's this like top down approach, the bottom up approach, I think is the only way.

Yes.

I don't care who has said this, but it's. The only way out is through.

Right.

The only way out is through. Not. The only way out is from the head down. No, the only way out is through the head.

Not from the head.

It's your amygdala.

But it might be that this is the paradox because it might be something that maybe there was sexual trauma, car accident, all these different things. Like one of the ways that you work with people is in physiotherapy and postural deviations and back pain. And I see a lot of this online that you've been posting. And when you really get down to it, I wonder how you feel about this. When an event happens, when a tragic event happens, or an injury or a.

Car accident, people might come to you for in person or online, but really what they're wanting is freedom to let the past go. They want two things, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. They want freedom to let go of the tragic event or the accident from an unconscious level, from a somatic level. But then they also want the actual tools to heal the physiology.

Yes.

Which one of those is easier for them to do?

It really depends on the individual. And Eugene and I were actually talking about this on, on the drive over is for some people you got to break into the linear approach and guidance. So it's like we can, can, we can address this physiological issue here through your diet and your exercise and you know, can you, can you take some time to breathe today? Can you go inward just for five minutes? And I think I mentioned that earlier and for some people that's really effective and that buys them enough space and enough clarity to start talking about more important things. But other people, they intuitively know that that's not the problem and they end up resisting and sabotaging the thing the entire freaking way way. And, and so they're more open and available and will benefit more from a more non linear approach. So like you said, the only way through, the only, the only way out out is through.

When you say non linear, what exactly do you mean by that?

Yeah. Okay, so I should define that. So a linear, a linear approach would be, would be, oh, you have digestive issues because you're eating processed foods and you have some food intolerances most likely. Right. We're going to order some labs, we're going to do this and we're going to make some adjustments. And can you try elimination diet on that? Elimination diet feels really good, Right? Okay, let's throw in some movement, some breathing physiology. Right. How does that, how does that feel?

What does it feel like when I don't eat four slices of cold pizza for breakfast?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But not the same as if you don't eat four slices of hot pizza. But so a non linear approach, like let's just be real, right? These are all soul issues. These are all soul issues. We live out of alignment. If you're like me, and I believe you are, I believe we came into this with a mission in mind. We signed a soul contract and we came in and we decided to take a nap for, I don't know, up to 100 years. And in that we get to live out this dream. And in this dream we want to achieve a particular. And I say the words like want, you know, very loosely, very liberally, but we had a mission here. We got a soul mission. And within that soul mission we wanted to learn XYZ lesson. Well, the habits we've adopted, the behaviors, the beliefs, all that stuff that comes with being human leads us out of alignment. And the soul cries, the soul says and we, I don't hear anything. Knocks a little louder, I don't hear anything. Pretty soon the message is so loud that it creates a concussive effect in us. And that is the soul disease that manifests in obesity, skin issues, hating ourselves, not being able to relate to others, you name it, fill in the blank. And so a non linear approach would be, let's just address the problem. That's the problem. And, and to your point on psychology and I, I know a lot of psychologists and, and they're all great people. I wouldn't say all the psychologists I know are great, but the ones that I would call reliable and, and dear to my heart, they get it. And, and we've had a lot of discussions and, and really psychology is the science of the soul. Yet show me in the, in any psychological literature and I may miss something. Guys, if you have something and you can share it with Josh, I'd be happy to look at it. Where it talks about addressing the soul's issues. Right? It's, it's about neuroscience, it's about the brain, it's about, you know, when people say this, they're resisting and they're putting up walls. And so you break down the walls by leading them another way and then boom, you break the wall down when they're not expecting. And that's all effective. It is very effective, objective. But at the end of the day, if you're unwilling to address the soul because you don't believe it exists, then you're not going to get to, in my opinion, the heart of the matter, pun intended. But if you take a non linear approach and just say what is this really about? What is this really about? And the beauty in what I do, because I'm not a clinical therapist or anything, we don't have to talk about any of the deep dark in your cave. We just admit that there's deep dark in the cave. Cave and that you're not comfortable sticking your head in the cave and turning on the lights and opening up that treasure chest that you've kept locking in that treasure Chest is. This is what I prefer. This is what I don't prefer. This is what I find enjoyable. This is what I don't find enjoyable. If I had all the time and money in the world, I'd be doing this. And all those are in your treasure chest in that deep, dark cave. And you're going everywhere but in that cave. And that's where the soul diseases form, in my experience and observation and opinion.

Yeah. Well, if there's some spiritual malady that I think, you know, AA did a good job of, I'm not like, either for or against AA is that they actually had the 12 steps that were created on a soul inquiry process.

Yes.

Right. Admitting to oneself what is out of one's control. And even the Lord's Prayer. Right. Like, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change and to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. I think I, I misaligned the words, but that's the core of it.

Right.

Give me the wisdom between knowing what I can and cannot change in my life.

Yes.

And so really at the, at the bottom of every question, when it comes to longevity, when it comes to biohacking, or health or wellness, or just maybe it's all just on an umbrella of wellness and well being, there is this question of wisdom. And I think in my life, the, the only place that I've ever really learned the most wisdom is in the pain cave. That's where I've learned the most. I don't learn the most wisdom on a vacation in Barbados with coconut oil on my legs.

Right. Right.

I get the most wisdom when I'm crying on a golf course in 2014, 2015, asking God if I should still be here or not. That's when I get wise. Why do you think that is? I mean, it's just we have to.

Go through ordeals and heroes journeys so many times over in this world.

Yes.

Maybe meeting with a multitude of therapists and doing top down, bottom up, sideways, linear, non linear, doing an amalgamation of.

All these things to then be able to share that wisdom with others. In other words, we live our own journey and we go into the soul and out of the soul and into our pain and out of our pain enough to where then we actually have the life experience to share that with others where it can really, truly make an impact on them. And I think it's not a diss to people that are young, they have unique wisdom, I'm sure. But I personally believe that we can only really be wise when we have enough life experience to pull that wisdom from. That's my own vantage point. That's my own take on it. But I wonder for you, who has been somebody? And I know that Paul Check has been one of them, but who else have been the people in your life that you've actually, in your darkest times and in your most vulnerable times, that you've received wisdom from to where you feel like you've embodied it now so you can share it with your clients? Like, who have those people been?

Oh, man, it's been so multifaceted. But names off the top of my head, you've got the, you know, I'll go almost linear and how it happened. But, yeah, you know, at the start of my journey, you had, like, the Dalai Lama, you have Eckhart Tolle, you have, you know, at the time, Deepak Chopra, and he's pulled some sus stuff lately. But so you had, like, kind of more Eastern philosophy, right, where it's more of, like a psychological approach, in my opinion. Right. It's inviting you to see things from different angles. But as I started getting more into, like, the true psychological approach and seeing it as a science of the soul, the work of Dr. Stephen Wolinsky blew my mind. And that is. I got to say that with an asterisk, because if it probably weren't for the study of Dr. Carl Jung's work, work, I don't think it would have been as monumental to me stumbling across Dr. Sleeping Wolinsky's work. But when you start talking about, like, the more of a religious, even though they're not religions, more of a religious type approach, you know, there's more Eastern philosophy, definitely. Right. And I'll be honest with you, if it wasn't for the Eastern philosophy, understanding the psyche a lot more, not saying I'm an expert by any means, but understanding it way more than I did. Did. If it wasn't for. If it wasn't for the culmination of. Of all those things, then my integral approach to it would not have been possible. You know, it was. It was really. The combination is almost like I chose this and chose for it to unfold in a particular order, because if it would have been any other way, I don't. I. I would not have understood Dr. Carl Jung had I not been exposed to the simplicity of, like, the Dharma or the Dao. It was just so damn simple. And I never would have been open to really interpreting Jesus Christ and Christianity on a different level. Because now I, like, I'm definitely not. Not in any Way, shape or form, like a orthodox mainstream Christian. But when I even say Jesus Christ, like, things change in me, right? I feel it. It's. It's real. But it's no less real than when I think about living the Dharma when I read the Tao Te Ching, it's no less real in any of that. But I could have easily fallen into this divisive dualistic thinking where the Bible's not true. Because of this. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, like you mentioned earlier, the canonization process, right? The whole world is canonized, right? Now you can't give medical advice unless you're a doctor, right? Unless you've skipped the mythical, mystical and magical elements of. Of your total being and went right to intellectual. You can't say anything about medical, right? So the whole world has been canonized. But just because the Bible was canonized doesn't mean that the message that Jesus was sharing is irrelevant.

Sure.

Right. And so I can't let the fact that man did what man did keep me from my true path. So to break it down, if it wasn't for unfolding the way it unfolded, I'd never would have been even open to that, right? And I would have been like, the.

Dharma's the way it wouldn't have.

If you had a myopic lens, then if you're holding a hammer, everything becomes a nail, no matter what, right? So if you only have one faith or one viewpoint, then you apply that viewpoint to everyone. And that goes for people that are in, like, specific lanes of holistic health, bodybuilding, Marcons, immunology. I don't care what aspect of wellness you're talking about. When someone does something all day long and they eat, sleep and breathe that one thing, and all their tools and all the things they do are just related to that one thing, they see everything around them through that lens. And I think the real masters are able to have mastery in many different segments of wellness and be able to go in and out of that mastery depending on how the environment unfolds.

Totally.

I think that's the true masters. It reminds me of this one moment I had. I did a vipassana and the teacher's name was Goinka. Okay. And this is like in the middle of the Palm Desert in California, and he's got kind of a belly and, like, he's not really, like a healthy little looking dude.

But the wisdom and the pain that.

I went through in the vipassana was so intense.

It's 10 days of silent meditation, no masturbation no meat.

Like two. Two meals a day.

No journaling, no writing. Literally just you and your thoughts and your.

It's crazy. I mean, it looks.

It's very wild. And when I came out of that, I almost felt like I was a rose that just opened up to the sun.

Yeah.

Like, if somebody would have touched me, I would have been like. Anyways, the wisdom that I got from that was at the very end, it was on this old school, like, VCR in the corner of the room. We were all just, like, blasted wide open. Everyone's pineal gland was just, like, open to entire consciousness in the room.

And the room was filled with all kinds of beautiful people, people that are, like, wanting to do it for the right reasons. Because you don't go through 10 days of silence unless you really want something, unless you really want to earn it. But he said something at the end that really relates to what you just said. Goenka said, you know, take what resonates and leave the rest. Take what resonates and leave the rest.

Yes.

Take what you need, because anytime. And that was big because I was like, wow, all these people that are so devout in this vipassana, you know, that's all their. Their lives, or people that have the hammer and all they see is the nail.

Yeah.

That they. They can. If they're not careful, if they're not conscious, they can fall into this trap. That there's one way for all ways. And it's not only just not the case. It's not the case. Objectively. Objectively. From the sky, from the eye that watches all things, there's always thousands of unlimited paths to get everywhere.

Absolutely.

And our journey, I think, in this lifetime is to figure out which one resonates and which one doesn't. And so people resonate with this show. Some don't.

Cool.

I'm just gonna be Josh anyways.

Yeah.

Yeah, Right.

We're just gonna be ourselves.

You can speak Scroll.

And that's. And that's the ultimate path for all of us. And there's freedom in that.

Yes. Yes.

I mean, it almost makes me cry just thinking about. There's so much freedom in being ourselves and being liberated from slavery of mind, of body, of soul, to where we can actually just authentically express ourselves. Is what you said to me when you're in the trailer that you needed the most was authenticity, the permission to be authentic. That was the turning point for you, was really looking at the part of yourself that wasn't being you. And I think that's really what this podcast has been for me, you know, this concept of truth, biohacking truth. We can't do any biohacking. We can't be any honest with ourselves unless we really are looking at what is the authenticity that is wanting to unfold from me to express and am I actually honoring that or not?

100%.

That's everything, bro. We covered a lot of ground. What do you think we miss, though, when we look at this concept of.

Biohacking and truth and knowing the self and honestly, the core motivations for women and men that want to utilize biohacking for their own truth?

Yes.

So that works in their life, whether it's for the symbology of what they want or the many ways you described. What do you think we missed when we look at this concept of biohacking?

I wouldn't say that we really missed anything because there are only so many things in the grand scheme of things that are going to move the needle. Right. And so we spend a lot of time, you know, to many of your points, we spend a lot of time finding what isn't the answer. And that's okay. That is okay. But let's not get lost in the fact that we think it should be different and just accept that that's just the way it is. And so for, I mean, there's only, like I said, only so many things that move the needle. And I believe we covered them pretty well here. And anything else that you think might be missing or, and I don't mean you, but a listener might, might, might be missing, that's just more fluff. And what is it that you're avoiding admitting right here?

Right.

What did we talk about that you don't want to admit and you want something else. Give me something else. So I would say, no, no, I don't think we missed anything. I think it was a great, great coverage of everything. And, and one thing I want to, I do want to bring up to your point earlier is, is a good question to contemplate, you know, because there might be some people listening to this that maybe got. Might get triggered as we start talking about God and different beliefs and everything. And I believe in the same God. You do, homie. Right. And if you love Jesus, I love Jesus too. Let's not argue about what is and is not Jesus. And I will ask you to contemplate this. You got Jesus, you got Buddha, and you got Shiva, and they're all sitting around a campfire. What's the first thing they're going to fight about? I don't Think they would. I don't think that they would. So why do we feel that we can represent Jesus or we can represent Buddha, or we can represent Shiva, Jakti, Krishna, and advocate for them because someone else is saying something we disagree with. Right. So just accept. Just be open to the possibility that God might not be something that we can describe and explain with our tiny human brains and our. Our totally inept mouths. Right. Because words. Words are powerful, but a lot of times they just don't. Don't. They don't do the job.

So that's a campfire I'd want to be at, by the way.

Hell, yeah.

That would be an amazing campfire. Break out the marshmallows.

I bet it would be pretty quiet.

I would love that.

Yeah, I would love it.

A lot of breathing and a lot of connection. Exactly that campfire, dude.

Exactly. And Great Spirit would be watching it all.

Hey, speaking of connection, y' all can connect with Jerry. So it's Jerry at biohacking Truth. And if you want to work with Jerry, he's giving you 20 off, which I think is amazing.

Yeah, yeah.

You just mentioned the code WW20 in the subject line of your email. That's generous, man.

Or Josh 20. Either one.

Or Josh 20 20.

We'll put it in the show notes right down below, wherever you're watching. Listening to this podcast. And, you know, on that concept of generosity, man, I just want to say, like, I've really enjoyed seeing your growth, your trajectory from not just when we work together, but even knowing your story before we work together. I really only ever want to share people's messages on this platform. Platform that are actually doing the work. And I think we even wanted to POD before, but I was like, it's not the right time.

Yeah, yeah. Like.

Like, he's still working through things, and so am I. And we're going to come together at the perfect moment. And this was the perfect moment because there's never been a greater call for truth in the world than there is right now in 2024.

Agree.

If there's ever a moment where it's.

The most important, and I don't want to pressure or. Or shame anybody, it's so important right now to be honest with us and to be honest with our family, because the powers that be in the world are doing everything they possibly can to bring dishonesty and malice and misinformation and mind control and Watiko and domination to our soul. We're in a war of the soul right now. We're in a war of the mind. Starts of the mind. And it's really. They wanted to get to our soul.

Yes.

Don't let the old man in. Don't let the old Carlos Castaneda. I'm giving my. My friend some love and some appreciation. Mark Tollefson, that. That shared this with me after Christian and his daughters. Christian was a friend of mine on the vision quest, and he tragically was killed in a plane crash January 5th of this year. And I went through this big grieving process afterwards. And really, when I got down to it, the meaning that I've created from it and what I take from it is that I get to live my life generously. How can I live my life with generosity? And what are the ways that, to quote Castaneda, that I've let the old man in in? What are the ways that I've already allowed parts of myself to die to not be fully expressed, to not be honest with me or other people? All of that, because I'm not interested in playing that game. I'm interested in playing a game where my heart is open and I have the wisdom to decipher who I get to share it with. That's what. That's the game I want to play this year.

Love it.

So it's been a generous conversation with you. You've been generous with your discount for the audience as we say goodbye. Give us this. Give us this last question and answer.

Sure.

And it's something. Ever since I was a little boy, I'm like, what does it mean to live well? What does it mean to actually live our life well? Like, what is that? Why are these adults so mean to each other? What's going on on the planet? Like, what the hell do we make of all this thing? How do I live my life well? It's why I started the podcast in 2015. How do I live my life well? How do we live our lives well?

Yes.

So what's your answer to that now? You know, with your training and the culmination of everything that you've been through.

Through. Yeah.

How do you define wellness? What does wellness to you? How do you live your life well?

Yes. So the simplest. Complex, complex answer to that would be when we can. When we can live authentically through our heart. Right. That doesn't mean that our gut and our mind isn't important, our brain isn't important. Be careful. Use that word. It doesn't mean that those aren't important. But if we can live authentically through our heart, we will never be misguided. And if we experience undesired results in life. That was our heart leading us to the lesson that we needed to, Needed to be led to. Now, from that place, we can authentically pursue the things that would be more common answers to that right? Sleep your eight hours, six to eight hours a night, depending on your own personal physiology. Make sure you're eating real food, not processed food. Make sure you're loving yourself enough to get off the couch and move. And, and, and all those things that are, that are obvious, but really what stops us from doing that? It's the fear, it's the shame, it's the guilt. And those are not present when we're living authentically through our heart. And you know an old adage, where there is fear, there is an absence of faith. And if we were to talk about the Christ consciousness, where is that in the body? That's in the heart. Heart. What is the bridge between our higher chakra and our lower chakra? It's that heart chakra. And so I've never had a situation where we couldn't boil down to a huge quantum leap in development, growth, realization, understanding that didn't involve opening up that heart and living authentically through it. Because the brain will you. Your gut will keep you anxious. Right. But when the head, heart and gut are in alignment, you're unstoppable. How do you miss? How do you miss?

That's so good, man. Thank you for that. I always tell people. You're welcome. I always tell people, you know, trust your gut. Unless you have a leaky gut and a bad brain gut axis. Because if your gut is messed up, you can't always trust it. Right. So. So there's always duality. There's always a paradox in everything that we do. And, you know, none of this podcast was medical advice. None of this podcast was you or I telling people how they should think.

Exactly.

It's just offering different ways in which they can, you know, such that we can live our life well. That's the whole meaning and purpose of us being here today, man. So tell people how they can connect with you on the Instagram. That's your main place, right. Or Facebook.

Yeah. So it goes back and forth with meta's, community guidelines, enforcement. But Facebook, Jerry Kuykendall. Right, That's.

They cut you off.

Off. Yeah. So I haven't been able to boost or promote on my account for better part of two years now. I just started up a couple newer accounts, but of course you got to start building those up and what have you. But, but you can find me on Facebook. Jerry Kuygendall, Instagram. I'm Coach Jerry. 44. Why 44, that is. That's an interesting story. So 44, it came to me, I don't know, five, six years ago. It's like, I like that number. I don't know why. I look at it and I like it. Cool. So fours are the number of completion numerology. Add them up, they're an eight. I'm a type eight in the Enneagram. And that. No, this is an eight year. Like, so everything about that number 44 is just called to me. So that's why. That's why. Yeah.

Well, in the subject of completion, I feel complete with the podcast. It's been awesome to have you here. I'm so glad that we waited and marinated until. Because this was a special one, man. So from my heart to yours, you, thank you for being on the show.

From my heart to yours, thank you.

You're welcome. Okay, guys, until we see you next week, Jerry and I are both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you.