Bizzie Gold: Break Method | Why Instinct And Intuition Are Not The Same | Wellness Force #Podcast

But what's interesting is that the instinctive pattern here where if I had allowed this to happen without working my way through it, I would have been treating the person behind me like it was my uncle. Out of the childhood pattern, which wasn't out of protection for my well being. That was out of embarrassment versus this. Now that I've actually run myself all the way through and I've actually landed back at this kind of angry, protective response. I'm reacting to protection, solely protection and boundaries, which is not something I'm addicted to. Yeah. So I've actually not fed the loop of my neurotransmitters because I'm not addicted to protection. I'm addicted to having to, like, free myself from some sort of embarrassing, oppressive.

What's up, everyone? It's Josh. It's Wellness Force. We're live here on Facebook and probably a bunch of other places. I'm here with a incredibly special guest. Like, I haven't been this stoked for a podcast with somebody that talks about consciousness since about a year and a half ago. And this conversation, we're talking with busygold, who I'm going to introduce. We're going to bring on just a second and we're discussing the mind. So many people right now are literally like gripped in fear and they're just run by their ancient brain and their amygdala is just directing their actions, especially in Covid. If you're watching on Facebook, just please let us know in the comments. Like, are. Are you dealing with stress? Are you dealing with this old school brain where it's trying to tell you you should be scared and wear a mask and be quiet and sit down and not say anything and not be you? If so, just let us know. We're going to go deep into this topic. Bizzy, welcome to Wellness Force.

Thank you. This has been a long time coming. I'm glad that we finally got to make this happen today feels like the exact right time.

It feels perfect. I mean, I was telling you before we recorded, I have been so looking forward to sharing your story because your story is above and beyond, like a mother, a founder, a teacher, a mentor. We're gonna talk about the break method. Like, you've done so much and, you know, the life that you're about to bring into the world. And there's just so many accomplishments that you've achieved, but you've done it, especially in the past 10 years, from a place of real authenticity and integrity, like really knowing who you are. That took some work. We're gonna go into the work that that took. But for people that don't know you, like, what's the break method and who is busy today in 2020?

Wow. Busy today in 2020. Well, you and I were just talking about that right now. Typically, I tend to align with my multifaceted self. And I would say right now I'm kind of seated in a place where, because I'm about to bring a child into the world the next eight weeks, I feel like my mom brain is kind of kicked into some sort of a primary position where typically it's operating lovingly in the background with a lot of my other work. So this is kind of a special place for me to be. I actually just finished wrapping up all of the rest of my big events for the year to focus on bringing the baby into the world. So this is kind of my. It's actually kind of my goodbye for the next few months before I take my baby moon. So this is kind of beautiful that this is where we're at right now. So right now, break method has been something I've been able to focus on really solidly for the last year, which has been fantastic for me because prior to that, I was the founder and and CEO of three other companies that had grown, honestly, far beyond my wildest dreams. And I'm sure, as you know, that Biggie was right. Mo money, mo problems like, as a business gets bigger, the stress gets worse, the employee management gets worse. Scaling can be very stressful in terms of activating any remaining scarcity mindset you might have. So a lot of people don't realize that that when your business grows, even though financially what's coming in is bigger, that also means there's more going out. And if you have any little resil, residual bits of scarcity mindset that you haven't conquered, they're gonna pop out of every corner. So it was hard for me at that point to try to really give and breathe the life that I wanted to breathe into break at that time. So the last year I've been able to focus on that 100% and break started in 2014. But as I said, it was always kind of like the passion thing that I was really wanting to focus on, but never was able to prioritize it. So this year it's grown exponentially. In fact, the reason my voice sounds like this is because we just had our annual event, as you know, this last weekend. And the. The way the program has shifted over the last year is really a testament to the team that we've brought on. And I know that one of the people that has been really instrumental in that is actually who introduced us as well. So. Shout out to Joe.

Shout out to Joe. Thanks, Joe.

Shout out to Big Joe. I got to give him some love on the stage in front of the whole audience and I made him cry. And now, Joe, you're Welco talked about it on this podcast. So it's been a big year of growth. One of the things that I set out to do at the beginning of this last year is to draw more men into the programming that we offer. Because I think so often any sort of self discovery, personal development, we call it structured self inquiry, whatever the wording is that you want to use to describe it, feels in many ways inaccessible to men. And they don't feel like necessarily making it a priority or like there's some sort of stigma around it. So I set out that goal very softly, solidly. I want more men to opt into the program without being coerced by their wives or partners. Because before we had men, but it was usually like they'd show up on the first session, they're like, I don't know, your marketing was cool. My wife really said that I would dig this. And I have no idea what I'm getting into. And I'm like, all right, so basically your wife horsed you here. So I wanted to have a lot more men that were showing up on their own free will and ready to do the work, not just because they'd been somehow tricked into it. And that's really what we've seen this year is really a solid 55, 50 male, female, entry way into the program, which has been amazing.

Why do you call it the break method? Because in my mind, I think about like the neurons, like the synapses that are formed in our brain, and we have like the axon and the dendrite that shoots these messages. By the way, I think it's so cool that we're electrical beings, you know, so that, that way when people talk about vibration, it's real. It's not just woo, woo, it's. It's actual. That's the reality of our brain. It's a computer. We're running programs. People forget this.

So with break computer running organic programs, and I think that's what people have trouble drawing the defining line. Because especially people that are like, oh, AI is bad and technology is bad. Listen, I agree, I think there's some really bad things there. But actually we are what I would consider to be spiritual technology. So one is an inorganic Computer one is an organic computer. So you're absolutely right. We are an organic.

I love that. I've heard Kevin Kelly we had on the show, he talked about technology as the technium, which is a separate set of consciousness expressing itself, connected to the singular consciousness. So, like, the technology is actually something from the future. I feel like sometimes that's expressing itself now. How we navigate this is up to us. Like, we're in a pretty big inflection point right now. And I'm sure that's what the break method is addressing. You know, this concept of, like, mind control. This. My intention is not to make this show a conspiracy theory show or anything like that. You guys know that all the shows we've done before, all the information is there for you to make your decision. So I'm not here to convince you of anything, but in my opinion, busy. And I'd love to hear you share on this and contrast it to the break method. What do you see right now? Like, what's the state of the union with our minds being controlled by the mainstream media? Like, what's really under attack here and what are people not seeing?

Great question. There's a few different building blocks here that I think maybe if we address the little building blocks, then we can show you how it all functions together. So I love how you were saying that everyone's operating. Well, not everyone, but a lot of people seem to be operating from their ancient brain. Their amygdala operated in this heightened fear state all the time around, kind of this looming concept of COVID which I think we can all acknowledge encompasses a variety of different intangible aspects of daily life. Right. So Covid, I think when people get afraid of COVID it's not necessarily just specifically the virus. Some of it is how that's going to change life. Is life ever going to go back to being the same? It's definitely a bigger, more intangible concept than just imagining some sort of invisible micro virus running around. So what's important to remember is that, number one, your brain is there to keep you safe, right? To keep you from dying. And when we look out at the micro versus the macro scale, the macro scale is really capitalizing on our brain's survival instinct right now. Our brain is going to learn all of its patterns of survival, really, in early childhood, and we're then going to see the world and experience and consume information, really only from that pattern until we've done something to intentionally rewire the pattern. It sounds like that's a lot of the work that you do. That's a lot of the work that I do. And it is clear to me from now having thousands of students graduate, even people that feel like they've done a lot of work, and I'll put done a lot of work in air quotes, because a lot of times that work doesn't follow a structure. It doesn't actually navigate them from awareness all the way through to action and then rewiring, find awareness of certain things. But there's not actually a strategy to biologically repair those patterns.

Structured self inquiry.

And I know that healing for a lot of people wants to feel like this kind of fluid, timeless, very yin energy type of thing, but really that's not actually the way the brain needs to be rewired. Right. We can have patience for people in that process, but there needs to be, like we were talking about yesterday, that kind of yang, actionable element with a strategy and a structure to get you all the way through to rewiring so that you can return to that kind of more yin, childlike innocence that your brain has made you lose by way of its pattern. So we developed these fear patterns early on in childhood. And essentially, I think the best example that I can use for people knowing that not everyone will have seen the movie the Croods, is to call on the movie the Croods and I can give like a two second summary. It's probably like a Pixar type of movie, but it's about the last Neanderthal family that's alive still. And Mr. Crude has kept his family alive by keeping them constantly in fear and getting them to never leave the cave. And he even has them chant their mantra, always be scared. Fear keeps us alive. So he goes outside of the cave all the time to collect food, to do the things. It's this beautiful world filled with danger. And he comes back and he tells his family all these stories by firelight and draws them on the wall. But the family has to live these stories vicariously through his pictures. And he never lets them outside of the cave. One day, his daughter Eep, being the rebellious teen that she is, goes outside of the cave and is like, what? You've been hiding this from us this whole time? And she even says to her dad, like, I would rather potentially die and live my life outside of the cave than keep staying in this repetitive environment day in. So I always explain to people that this fear pattern essentially operates like Mr. Crude. It's saying if you stay in this cave, in these sorts of behavioral choices and patterns and ways that you label your environment to then refine or limit what potential choices you can make, then we can keep you safe. But the big key piece here is that safety to your brain just means known cause and effect. So safety doesn't actually mean that you get love. Safety doesn't mean that you are happy. Safety doesn't mean that you find peace or joy or any sort of identity. In most cases, peace means that you are actually perpetually experiencing chaos or rejection or abandonment or letdown. So we have to kind of almost unpack that element of it first. That Mr. Crude in our brain tricks us into believing that it's keeping us safe. But what it's actually doing is it's keeping us in the repetitive chaos that we experienced in childhood. Because any decision that we make that goes outside of that scope for our brain, simply because it's unknown, our brain reads it as unsafe. So if it doesn't know what happens when we actually put ourselves up on the stage and grab a microphone, it's going to be like, you don't want to do that. You don't want to grab that microphone. What if you fail? What if everybody boos you? But at the same time, it's very easy once you isolate these patterns to train yourself to be like, oh, actually grabbing that microphone means that I get to step outside of the cave and see if maybe I actually am good at singing, because maybe I'm actually good at singing. And Mr. Hoot has kept me in the cave this whole time.

I've never seen that movie. That movie sounds amazing. We're gonna link that movie in the show notes the cruise.

And there's also this, like, kind of medicine man, almost like ayahuasca type character that pops up that's been like, living life out there solo on medicine this whole time. And he befriends the teen daughter. It's a great one.

I love that you mentioned that, because there's a huge part of my psyche that's connected to the film that I think it was a Pixar film, and it was about how sadness can actually be the healer. And it was what? I can't believe I'm blanking on the name right now. You know what I'm talking about? Inside Out. Exactly. Inside Out. That's one of the best movies. So please continue, because I know you're unpacking some pretty big stuff here. Very, very big. And by the way, if you're watching this and if you feel like you're triggered in any way, that's okay. It's all good. Like really just keep an open mind, as Bizzy's describing.

Yeah. And key piece to remember here is that but our society right now convinces us to essentially either cut out people that trigger us. Right. Without any sort of self reflection or personal responsibility and. Or hide or remove ourselves from these triggers. If you are watching this and you're triggered right now, what you have to do is remind yourself, just like I said, like, grabbing that microphone might be like, yeah, they might throw tomatoes at me, but I might actually find out I should be on American Idol. We won't know until I grab this microphone. The same is true for something like being triggered. We cannot rewire our response to something that we refuse to be triggered by. So I actually intentionally, in this structured process, we actually have you walk willingly and intentionally into triggering environments equipped with exactly how to rewire those responses in the moment. So if you're triggered, welcome the triggering experience. Right. This is like, if I'm triggered, this means that I have an opportunity to walk outside of the cave and look around and see the sunshine, to smell the trees. Right. To do anything that I have never done inside of the cave. So embrace that moment. Walk out of the cave. Could you die? You totally could. But is it probable? No, it's not probable.

It's also where all the juice is. It's where all the fun is. Like, you know, we see these memes busy, like, you know, on the other side of discomfort is your dream and you know, you have to go through it. It's all true. The reason these things are platitudes and that they're trying to push to the side is because they're so true. The truth hides in plain sight. So anyways, continue.

Absolutely. So on the brief little tangent of like these Pixar movies that somehow give these little seeds of truth. The Croods. Yes to inside out. Another big one. Watch Smallfoot. Smallfoot tells it all. I don't know if you've seen Smallfoot, but I actually think Smallfoot might be like the number one disclosure movie of all. So everyone should. So we've dialed in, right? That the brain wants to keep you safe. But that safety doesn't actually mean safety. It just means known, repetitive cause and effect. So when we acknowledge that the brain naturally is going to do this and that most people can get to 30, 40, 50, frankly, 70, 80, without ever having considered that the way they perceive the world is not actually objective. Right. Watching people hit that moment for the first time, which is what I do in a lot of my work, it can be really intense. Because as soon as you have to see it, it causes this moment of, like, a conscious dissociation where you're like, oh, no. I realize now I can see exactly how I perceived this one way and that it might not objectively be that way, or I actually triggered this person into doing the very thing that I just blamed them for. And you have this moment of what I always refer to as reality vertigo. When you really see it and you see all the pieces come together, there's this like, oh, no, I'm losing my sanity. Because we really grip onto our truth and our perception is the truth. There's nothing else other than either this is true or you're a liar or I'm a liar and your thing is true. But that's not exactly how perception of reality works at all. So once people are able to kind of let go of that piece of. We start to see all of the structures that are around us that have actually been intentionally created to impact this, as you refer to, which I love, is the ancient brain. Over and over again, through childhood, middle school, high school, as we start to learn new information in school through what I would deem to be, in certain ways, indoctrination. And again, I know you are like I am in that everyone not only should, but has to make their own decisions about what is true for them. I'm never here to push any sort of perspective or viewpoint on you, but what I will say is when you start to look at how educational building blocks are taught, there's a reason why, you know, you have to learn 1/1 equals 2 to then know that 2 times 4 equals 8. When you then scale up to multiplication, there's a variety of these sort of building block tools that are at work on the macro scale, not just in education per se, but something that's really referred to as a metanarrative, where you learn one piece of the history, let's say, in middle school, then they expand on that in high school. Then when you read an article in a newspaper, you're like, oh, yeah, that story plus this story plus this story equals Now I'm already primed toward a specific opinion or way to assimilate this information that might not objectively be true. So what I love about the work that each of us do is that when you learn how to essentially cut the bullshit on your own story and start to realize that the way my brain pattern wants me perceive this information is not only not objectively true, it's incredibly subjective and it is completely tainted and commingled with every pattern that I've ever carried with me all this time. So if I can kind of like peel away these layers, I can actually start to see what that truth is without being primed toward a specific opinion or viewpoint.

Busy. There's like a reaction for so many people where when their beliefs are challenged, there's almost like, this is what we see with the cancel culture, right? So if somebody doesn't agree with me or if it challenges my belief, there's almost, and especially now, an immediate, like, dismissal and a shoving away of someone else's belief. But what people don't realize, if they could just pause for a moment and take a breath. This power of structure and control of information, right? The historiography that's been happening for thousands of years, not just hundreds of years. Kings and queens in ancient UK and everything where we came from Mesopotamia, history has been written by people that hold the pen. And that pen is connected to their financial interests. That's the reality, folks. I'm sorry to kind of paint a dim light here, but it's the truth. So even the things we thought we knew, like one plus one is two that we perceived as reality, they're not real. They're only real because we agreed to them. Just like money, money is an agreed imaginary force that floats through the air. It doesn't actually exist. So can you please unpack this a little bit? Because I know you go super deep, which I love. Like, I really love this work because you to the depth, then you bring people to reality and then you transform them through the break method. But can you go to the depth for a moment on this historiography and what's really happening in the past thousand years plus.

So I feel like this can be for people that need a visual. And I think you might have seen this in one of my lecture slides. There's a meme where it's this woman in, let's say, like the 1600s that's getting her portrait painted. And it says, like, sits for 37 hours. Oh my God, delete that, Bartholomew. I look terrible, right? So it's like she sat there for 37 hours, this painter painted her, and just because she's like, nope, I don't like it, deleted, it never existed. Right? Are the people in power over time have the ability to do this and have had the ability, especially up until, let's say, the act of the Internet, do this without question, right? So that's where it gets really tricky because when they want to control the meta narrative and basically allow human beings to believe that we have choice when really we have perceived choice rather than an actual choice. It's like, well, we want them to pick this one. So we know that if we teach them X, Y and Z, they are primed to pick X, and that's really what we want. But we'll throw in a Z and a D in there just so that they feel like they have some sort of choice. This has been happening over time. And this is really what you're referring to is that historiography where they can kind of pick and choose what things they want to manipulate or skew. And I think another great example of this is I was teaching the lecture that I showed you, and I had a student in the room from Belarus, and she started laughing hysterically in the back, raised her hand and she was like, I went to school in Belarus. And she was saying, here's a great example. When they're taught about the Cold War, they didn't lose, right? So when we're taught about the Cold War, it's told through the eyes of all of our side and what our experience was. When you grew up in Belarus, you only get the story of the US being the enemy and how it went for them. So then she transitions to high school here and she's like, well, how do I make sense of this? Because I've been taught this in a school, I've been taught in this in school. They both conflict with each other. How can that be? And it is because of who's in control of the narrative. So we are all essentially victim to this. No one really gets out of this scot free because of the way our education system works. So when we go through these pieces, if we can do work, like for example, what Josh does or what I do with break, and you're able to actually ask yourself these questions like, am I primed to see it this way? Am I seeing this through the lens of what's happened to me previous in my life? Am I perceiving or putting this information or story together like it would have been taught to me by my parents. These are already the simple questions that can pull us back into a more logical, objective place where we can be like, okay, because I, for one, I love to read all things, especially differing opinions, which kinds of brings us back full circle to this cognitive dissonance moment that you were talking about. So because I love to be triggered, because it gives me a chance to grow.

Wait, do you really love to be triggered? Is that true?

I do. I love it. In fact, Having. It's great getting to talk to people that I know I'm aligned with, but I actually love debating people. Probably even.

It's great practice to not be a slave to your biology in that moment. You can literally practice being conscious.

Yeah, exactly. To me, I get my most intense clarity when I am trying to help navigate somebody, almost like through this portal. It really is like giving birth. Because when you are that much in disagreement with somebody and they're all fired up and they're going through cognitive dissonance, and that moment that you have this, like, one little opening to try to walk them through this portal where you guys can mutually agree upon certain things and then start to kind of co. Create a new reality in the middle, that's like what I live for. I love that. Again, it goes back to what you're saying, where if somebody perceives that what your beliefs are, what you're telling them is in opposition to what construct they're currently holding onto, they're very quick to be dismissive or push it away or, let's be honest, try to cancel you, try to troll you to just flat out move into anger. But this is because your brain, it's the same thing. The Mr. Crude part of their brain is like, you can't go one more step into this information without potentially having a conflict here, where you have to readjust or reassess. And when people are afraid of what that process looks like, that protective reflex is going to be even stronger. Once you've done work like this, I could sit down with somebody that has completely different viewpoints than me and have them, like, have the floor to say anything they want to say. I can even ask them questions like I was doing a podcast interview, and then afterwards I'd be like, okay, so let's go back to that point. And then I help them actually navigate themselves out of their viewpoint, back to where we're talking about, where suddenly they've just acknowledged that what I'm saying is actually accurate. And then they're like, wait, what did you do there? And I'm like, it's called being a ninja. Because I don't get. I don't get angry when somebody's explaining their perspective. Because how can I help somebody see an alternative perspective unless I truly understand how they're seeing it? And usually we block that.

That process you might have felt inside of yourself, though, like the. The experience of anger, upsetness, you just don't project it onto them.

You know, I think that would have been the case maybe like four years ago. But now I genuinely, it like it doesn't even come up for me. I have so much compassion and empathy for how mind controlled people have been that I just, there's no part of me that reacts to taking it personally. I've walked way too many people kind of through this little portal that we're talking about to feel anything other than just empathy and desire for them to keep going. And if me remaining calm and kind and compassionate to them is going to help them keep going, then that's my goal. Right? If me even having body language that's angry, even though I'm saying all the right things is going to prevent them from taking one more step, then I feel like I haven't. I'm not walking the talk.

Yeah.

So I try really hard to make sure that I walk that talk and teach, by the way, all of our students when we get to the end of break to be able to walk that talk too. Because whatever your truth is, I mean, I have students that are like, I've had pastors, I've had people that are part of the Catholic Church. I've had like all, you know, all the crazy conspiracy theorists, the hippie yogi genies that get offended if you don't, you know, venerate all the proper ancients, like, you name it, I've had all of them. I try to do everything I can to help people understand architecture patterns and constructs and how to see indoctrination rather than say, and this is what they're doing and this is what it's doing to you so that they can walk themselves through that process.

Let's talk about that. Because the architecture of indoctrination is, it's a great word by the way. I love etymology and I love that you love it too. Your background is graphic design. Like, probably why you had such great success in combination with your spiritual path. It's a cool blend. Like, I just love words and I love them because they're always coming into my consciousness and reflecting off of a belief that I have so that I can either be love or be fear. And I know that sounds super reductionistic and like most people listening, the logical mind is going to be like, oh, that's, that's bullshit. It can't be that simple. It really is. But like, just because it's simple ain't meaning it's easy. It's not easy to do at times. So can you talk about that architecture? Because that, that's a fascinating combination.

Yeah, absolutely. So again, I'll kind of dial it back to once we understand how the micro level of patterning works in ourselves. And I'll give this very short, succinct example. I'm sure everyone's had an experience where they have a memory, and then our parents have a different version of that memory, and they're like, how could you say that you're lying? Like, that would make me a bad mother. And it's like, okay, they just keep doing this enough times, retelling you the story. Hop that one day when you're 20, you're going to tell their version instead of yours.

Yeah.

And we've all had this moment where then all of a sudden you're telling something and you're like, shit. I mean, am I lying? Like now I don't even remember whose story is true. Because that's how subjective and intangible memory recall and memory encoding can be in those moments. So if we look at how easy it is to just, from even one person, fracture what you know to be true and what you actually know to be the input that created the output of your pattern. Once we take that out into the macro, knowing that all human beings have that same sort of safety reflex, and we all tend to keep ourselves in this proverbial cave. Imagine now not just having one mother. That's like, you always try to make me look like a bad mother. Right now we actually have school doing it, We've got religion doing it, we've got culture doing it. Newspapers, college, our friends on social media, social media, peer pressure, right? Everything is sitting there trying to basically poke at this, like you said, ancient brain pattern, trying to essentially capitalize on that, to again, go into this perceived choice, where it's like, we feel like we have all these choices, but we really don't. Because the puppet masters, like when we're children, would be our parents trying to make us behave the way they want, turn out the way they want, you know, follow the religion that they want. We have these much larger structures capitalizing on that same exact mechanism where we. We want to be loved, we want to be accepted, we want to be. We want to be a functional member of some sort of collective. So as soon as you look at how that happens in your childhood, which everyone can be like, yep, that definitely happened to me. And what lies on the other side of breaking out of that very chemically driven narrative and pattern and how much you can actually see and experience and life and relationships differently. The same is true when you go out into the macro level, once you learn how all those forces are essentially puppet Mastering these pain points for you and getting you to react purely out of emotion rather than any sort of universal consciousness or true intuition. They can control us without us even seeing that they're doing it. So this is, I think, the best way to look at it is if you can think of what has transpired in your life and how you've been kind of controlled and manipulated by your parents. This is true for how the bigger, more intangible powers that be capitalize on these very same survival instincts on our brain and get us to just fall in line.

Let's let that land for a moment because there's some massive examples that came up for me that I know people can relate to. An example of what you're talking about might be, oh, I had diabetes, so you'll have it too. It runs in the family, right? This projection of. Of health complications, mental health and physical health. Another one might be, oh, you're just like your dad. He does blah, blah, blah. Oh, you're just like your mom, blah, blah, blah. And then the most sinister one and the one that really runs in the background is in order for you to be accepted by society, you must be abc. If you're a woman, you have to wear these clothes. You have to have this posing. That's a whole nother podcast, by the way. The way that women have been completely objectified in every possible way. Way. If you're a man, you have to make six figures or more, otherwise you're worthless. All this stuff is, like, unraveling at the core right now. That's what 2020 is. We're being squeezed here. Can you go a little bit deeper into how we can pivot from that? Like, we have the awareness. Like you're. You're bringing us the deep, powerful awareness. So now that we're aware, like, where do we go from there?

So one thing that's important, because I find this happens a lot when people want to do the work and they want to try to figure out which data from their childhood really holds the keys to through these things. The examples that you just shared are so great. And it's important for people to remember that the way that they were just framed sounds explicit. But a lot of the times this is happening implicitly. We're not really aware that we're having these constant visuals displayed to us. Or, for example, we learn how our mom thinks we should act by talking shit about another woman, right? So it's not always to us directly where it's like, I want you to be this way or you have to be this way, otherwise you're going to be ostracized from the family. It's like you listen to your parents passively talk shit about people that are ostracized. Ostracized from the family. And then you're like, oh, well, if this. Then this. Right? You actually, you. Because you have that survival instinct, your brain actually fills in the gaps and you create this. This assumption, which sometimes is not actually true, by the way. Once we start to unravel a lot of this childhood stuff, a lot of the moments that really were pivotal and made us who we are are not necessarily even moments that. That tangibly happened or were explicitly told to us when our brain is forced to essentially fill in the gaps from a childhood perspective. And I'll give this quick example. I had really bad anxiety from 9 to 20. And it all started because my dad came back from work one day and was like, oh, you know, so and so's son. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, just drop dead. Just drop dead. Brain aneurysm. Went to the nurse's office with a headache and just dropped dead. And he was exactly the same age as me. And it was like, my dad wasn't trying to give me panic attacks until I was 20, when I was nine. But at the same time, I had this what I would call an abandonment to hold it all together pattern. So I wasn't gonna sit there and ask my dad a bunch of questions because I knew he was stressed out. So I just sat there with it and let my brain essentially kick in, like, okay, well, I'm the same age as that kid, and if he could die, then I could die. Does that mean that every time I have a headache I could die? Right. This is what the brain does. So most of our brain patterning is not necessarily because somebody said something to us directly. It's our brain trying to fill in the gaps of what's not said or what's not clear. So when you then take it into what you're talking about from this kind of social media perspective and essentially implicitly showing us this is what it means to be a man or this is what it means to be a woman, we end up essentially even experiencing those implicit messages on social media through our existing childhood pattern, which, for example, for me would be not as easy to do because I inherently don't trust anybody because of my pattern. But somebody that has a rejection pattern versus an abandonment pattern, they would see all these social media messages and they'd be like, oh, better Comply. Otherwise I'm gonna get rejected.

Yes.

I've just always had this like inherent mistrust.

You're kind of like a rebel at your core. You've known that for a long time.

Yes, totally. Yes.

But you can do it in a loving way. I mean, I don't think, I think the rebel archetype has been misused, but I think yours is coming from a really heart centered place.

It is, but it is now. I would say this took me. It took me a lot of work. And I would say even in the expression of my work with break method, my ability to not just say things with empathy and have patience, but like genuinely embody those things has really become even more intensified for me over the last two years. Sometimes we have to keep taking the steps and you know, sometimes we have to know better and do everything we can to choose better. But sometimes our be all our biology is just like a little bit behind us in catching up. I feel like these last two years now I actually can be all of the things that I said I was set out to be, but as I was such an angry, hostile, rebellious kid. But that took a long time to unwind for me, frankly, it makes sense.

Because you were a pro athlete. Not pro athlete, but you were a competitive athlete. Were you pro in your teens?

Yeah, I went pro. In skiing.

Yeah, in skiing. But you got injured and then you got to this place, the career ending injury, like, and then you had to pivot and then at some point you actually got sick yourself. And then that took you towards your inner healing in an acupuncture school, learning about the Rothschild banking cartel and how that's taking over like at a super early age. You were really woke AF all this.

Like conspiracy stuff that people are talking about right now. I've been on this tip since sophomore year of college, which for me would have been 2003. 2002? Yes, 2003, I think so. It's been a long time. In fact, somebody tried to, to pin me to some sort of BS something or other and reach out to me for comment for a big newspaper. And my response was basically like, you're trying to pin anyone that engages openly in these conversations and ask questions on one thing when I've been on this since 2003. So, you know. Yeah, with love.

You can't, homie don't play that.

Yeah, homie don't play that.

Walk and bless. Block and blast. That's what I heard. My friend Luke says that block and blast. Well, because you grew up, your dad was an attorney, right. That was the background on him. And so he was very analytical minded. And you grew up Jewish in New York and, you know, 23, you're like hosting a sports show on Fox. Like, you've had a lot of, like, pivotal moments in your life, but a.

Lot of people don't know about that one. But I used to be the host of a show on Fox Sports called Extreme Paintball. Life beyond the Page.

Paintball is pretty cool, but I'm looking at all these things that you did, and I'm like, there's got to be one moment where you felt like you were holy f. At the bottom of the barrel. Like, not saying that you wanted to leave the planet or anything, but, like, was it the injury? Was it the health piece? Because, like, we all have our own hero's journey.

It was the birth of my daughter for sure. So my daughter Sariah, she is 10 now. I had. I chose to have a home birth with her. I was living in Hawaii, and with everything that I knew about health and wellness, I really felt very certain that I was making the right decision for. For that point in my life. And it just so happens that I had a midwife that, you know, in hindsight, has had tons of legal action taken against her. And it really, it was in many ways a flu, Luke. So I just preface this with saying, like, I'm still very pro home birth. It just for me, everything went wrong. And my daughter died during childbirth and was dead for 20 minutes and I almost died. And when she was eventually resuscitated, she was having seizures and she now has cerebral palsy. So it's been a really intense especially right. Like the following two years were really intense. Intense. She. Her special needs, we were told were going to be, you know, very severe and that she would never lead a normal life, which I knew was not true. But at the time, her biological dad, my partner, did not like, he was believing the doctors, and he just kept sinking into a deeper and deeper depression. And he committed suicide when she was 2. So really those first two years of being a new mom, being essentially kind of the punching bag and the blame for this happening, because my partner at that point in time would just blame all of that on me. Like, our daughter's fucked up because you want to have a home birthday. It was just like, damn, every day. And I had to just kind of sit with that decision. And that was. That was a tough one for me because my reflexive pattern is always like, people are untrustworthy and I have to kind of like, be everything for everyone. And there was nothing that I could do for those two years to really hold it together for anybody because I was hanging on by such a tiny, tiny thread, and I was really just trying to survive, to give my daughter the best I possibly could. And we navigated out of that. You know, I felt obviously horrified that her father had made that decision. But also, it was a clear, pivotal moment where it was like, he either had to let us live without trying to drag us down with him. Him, or he had to go. And whatever the go meant for him, I respect his decision. He was 40 at the time. That was a. That was a rough one. That would have been my. My real lower. I had to really go introspective and say, you know, what am I capable of? What skills do I have? What. What life am I going to build from here? Because I think a lot of people, given that situation, would have basically just. I kind of lovingly just say, hit the it button, where you're like, whatever. Yeah, but actually, that is where I created all my businesses. I created everything from that moment. I was like, well, my daughter's going to need a lot of medical care. I'm currently a hippie living in Hawaii on food stamps, so that's probably not going to cut it. And I pulled it together. And my daughter is super magical. She is, like, the coolest thing ever. She has trouble with talking, but she walks and she dances and she does Brazilian jiu Jitsu and. And she's cognitively perfect. And, you know, it just goes to show, like, we've been talking about, right? If I had let the doctor's opinions become my reality, I wouldn't have probably pushed so hard to change that reality. But every. Because I have that core belief, like, I'm not gonna. What, I'm gonna trust this doctor that looks like an Asian Muppet? No, thank you. Like, I'm gonna just make my own opinions here. And everyone was just sitting there like, we don't think you're accepting reality. And I was like, I'm not accepting your reality. I was like, my D is not going to be a vegetable. I was like, look at her eyes. I was like, you mean to tell me that that child is cognitively impaired? I was like, I just. I don't believe it. So it's so true that whatever somebody tries to just beat down into you based on their own perspective. If you don't know how to cognitively hold your own and hold your own truth and fight against that, often that becomes your reality. And Then once that's your belief system, you make all the decisions to back that up. Like, my daughter really might not to want walk because I might not have fought so hard. Every time they tried to put her in a walker, every single time they tried to put her in a walker, I was like, no thanks. My daughter walks. I'm not going to teach her bad, you know, motor habits. Why would I do that? Just because it's better for insurance.

The power of belief. And by the way, I did not know that. And like, it just makes me love and trust you and your work even more. You know, what you've been through because God and Nella's commenting. You're amazing, my love. Carrie Michelle. So grateful for your resilience. Like, yeah, this is real for all of us. Because like, man, my heart was just like skipping a beat when, when you were sharing that story. Because you could have chosen busy, you could have chosen to go the other route where you literally push the fuck it button. And just for my own curiosity. And then of course I want to like lovingly move on just from my own curiosity. Like, what, what did you not trust about the midwife? Like, what did you not follow? If you were to do it all over again, like, what would you change about selecting a middle age midwife?

Well, the funny thing is she wasn't my first choice. When I went with my intuition, I went with the other midwife. So we were on a small island. I went with the other midwife, shout out to Claire and Claire was like all about, like, if you're gonna do this, you're going 100% traditional. Or like, we're not doing this together. And curiosity got the best of me and I really wanted to see if we were having a girl or a boy. So I snuck off and I got an ultrasound and. And we got into it. When I went to my next appointment, she's like, so I see you got an ultrasound. And she basically was like, she was doing it out of love, but she pushed all of my buttons. That pushed me into rebellion where I basically told her to F off. And then I was stuck with the other midwife. So, you know, in hindsight, in the whole process, I didn't. What I wish I had done earlier, I did intuitively decide to bring my best friend Harmony at the time time to the birth and she worked for the other midwife. What I wish I had done is much earlier because there was a point where I looked at Harmony and I looked at her in the eyes and I'm like, something's wrong and you know it. Just say it. Just say it. Because she didn't want to overstep. I wish that I had just done that earlier because it, a lot of it was so preventable. It really was just. She just. Whenever another doctor midwife has heard the story, they're like, oh, please tell me she did this and that and this. And I'm like, I know. And then you're gonna see they you wish you had done that. Any other midwife, I would not have had this happen. Basically.

Do you have another place where we can send people? Like, so much of our audience is women and at some point some of them may choose to bring life into the world. So do you have a place that you can give to me and we can put it in our show notes so people can learn from your experience?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And then there's, there's a couple people that have actually published like in depth versions of my birth story and all that. So I can definitely hook you up with that. Thank you. And again, just. I'm not anti home birth at all. This was just one of those things. And from a spiritual perspective, what I have always known about it. And it was funny because I wasn't able to quantify it in words. But when I look back on it, I know with certainty if that hadn't have happened to her, I. I would jokingly say I'd still be living in Hawaii. I'd probably have like five kids. I would have done nothing with my life life because I was just so complacent and like everything was good enough that I probably would have just stayed in that holding pattern, like in perpetuity. So I always say that that like Sarai took one for the team and not only changed our lives, but the ripple of how many millions of people that she's changed through all the different companies that I've created because of that moment. I mean, I'm certain that she did that on purpose. When I went and met with a healer a couple years ago without any sort of context, it was the first meeting, they were like, oh, this is so interesting. They're like, did you have birth complications? And I was like, yeah, you could say birth complications. And they're like, it's so funny because I see that your daughter, it's like she came to Earth and then she left again and she actually picked up and reoriented any timeline where you would have potentially stayed in Hawaii because you guys had a much bigger mission to do and that's why she was gone. For the 20 minutes. So it just goes to show, you know, I can't. I can imagine Sarai and how beautiful her voice is and how much she would have to say. And I believe that she's gonna really talk one day, much more than she does now. But she's so expressive. She's touched so many lives. And I'm. I'm grateful that she made whatever sacrifice she felt like she had to make to make a ripple in the collective, because it certainly did. And I think a lot of my students really honor Sarai for that decision. Decision.

You have been like, galvanized in the fire. And there's something about your. Your soul contract. I don't know if you follow Caroline Mice or if you have any teachers, because I asked you before we recorded a while back, I was like, who'd you learn from? You're like, no one. You said, I did most of this on my own. But, you know, I think about Wim Hof. His wife committed suicide, and that's what drove him to the breath. So many people that are helping hundreds of thousands like yourself, myself, across the world, millions have gone through their own, like, galvanization, their own incredible threshold that honestly, it's just. It's just mind boggling me because so many people would choose to go the victim route. Like, it's. Yes, John Wineland talks about, you know, we serve from where the wound is, but we're not the victim. We serve from that wound. And it seems like that's the path that you took as well. What is it about you and your soul and your character, like your being that allowed you to choose that route? Because that's not the path for everyone.

So it's not the path for everyone. And I feel like this even goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Mass media, social media, etc. Right now is created to try to get you to see those experiences from the victim lens. Right. They don't want you to actually learn the lesson from that because most people have bad stuff happen to them. And instead of, how did I play a role in this? What am I going to learn from this? That I prevent this in the future? And like, what other gifts has this brought into my life? Most people just immediately reflexively go to placing blame, especially from that childhood pattern. And again, mass media and social media capitalize on this because they're able to make more money off of you. If you're always wounded, if you're always the victim, if you're always looking for somebody to put blame. So inherently, because of my belief pattern that I have where I just naturally have never trusted anybody and have always really had to rely only on myself, even though that is the imbalance for me. Right. Somebody that has that pattern, I'm going to struggle in intimate relationships with cultivating vulnerability and trust. Right. So I'm less likely to fall victim to some sort of meta narrative or outside mental programming, but I'm highly likely to have relationship problems. Problems. Right. Then if you look at the other subsection of patterns, they are highly susceptible to being controlled by mass media and that kind of like sink into the victim wound and look for somebody to blame because they're already looking for that feedback loop. Like I inherently don't trust the feedback loop, which is why I think I have not really had any teachers save one teacher when I was 19, Dolores Cannon, who, who was such a blessing in my life and I used to be a past life hypnotherapist. I tell that that's a whole like other long story that I think I told on Mark Devine's podcast. If you. I don't know if you know Mark.

Yes.

But other than Dolores, I really have had no teachers. And it's because of this sort of self like obsessive self reliance which has served me in a lot of ways in, in business and to not fall victim to certain things. It's certainly been an Achilles heel for me in intimate relationships, which is really where I've had to do a lot of work. But for the other pattern, the reverse would be true. Right. Intimate relationships are really where they can often let go and be themselves and cultivate vulnerability and trust. But they're highly susceptible to everything coming in from the outside world. So you know, nobody gets out of this scot free. Everyone has some sort of issue. But I think that's what, that's what predisposed me to not fall into this early on because to me there's no choice. Which is really again it's kind of sad. But every time something's gone wrong for me, my brain doesn't even offer me the possibility. Like well, you could just cry about it and find someone else to blame. It's not even my brain hides that possibility. Just like somebody else, their brain would hide the possibility of actually putting themselves out there and taking a chance on singing on the stage. My brain, brain trusts me and only me. Well up until recently. Now I'm able to navigate through that. But you know, every, every pattern is going to have a, an Achilles heel and for me it made me not fall Victim to certain things that we're talking about, but certainly created a massive path of chaotic relationships.

I'm sure that it comes with unique challenges because, you know, every being, regardless of gender, has like the masculine, feminine inside of them. And you have some interesting viewpoints that I want to go into because how we approach our energy, masculine and feminine, and how we emotionally heal, which, by the way, we can get stuck in. So I'd love for you to share about that, but first let's go into the feminine and masculine. I was on the phone and you had told me that emotional response is masculine, which flew in the face of everything that I've been studying and even experiencing in myself. Can you talk about just for people that don't even know this concept, like, maybe they're tuning in right now. Just go super basic for us about masculine, feminine, feminine, and then, and then what you believe and what you put in your programs.

Yes, absolutely. So to understand this concept, it's important to think not of masculine, feminine, like gender expression, but energies as related to more of the kind of the Eastern perspective. So in tcm, that would be yin yang, right? In Ayurveda, that would be Ida Pingala, right? There's. There's the. The masculine expression, the feminine expression. Feminine expression, energies. Cooling, moisturizing, fluid, flowing, adaptable. Think of it like a running river, right? Like a babbling brook, if you will, Versus the masculine energies are going to be like fire, fiery, very direct, very powerful. They're going to be that kind of like the transformational driving force, like a train rather than the babbling brook, right? One is like driving with intention, the other one's just kind of flowing as it moves along. For us to be a whole healthy person, we have to have these energies balanced, right? Too much fire has a problem. Too much water has a problem. So when I started to look at and teach how to essentially rewire the brain, what I was originally shown was an equilateral triangle. And we can give your. I can send some of these graphics to you so that you can actually give your viewers a graphic. So I was shown an equilateral triangle where on the left hand side we had emotion. On the right hand side we had intuition. And then on the very top corner, we have logic, or what I would call more universal consciousness. Because to me, logic as we're taught it in school is not the same as the logic that I use. It's more like a universal consciousness. Like this thing is always true. And if you want to take it even deeper, it's like it's always true on all dimensions and in all aspects of myself. It's not just like this is three dimensionally true right at this moment. It's like this is, this has more truth to it than just the here and now. Just to give that a little bit more of a descriptor. So what I started to see is that really the emotional response that we all tend toward, especially in our pattern, is that very reactionary. Like a stimulus happens and we respond right away when we're responding emotionally. There's no stop and think about it process. If you're watching a movie, for example, and something strikes a chord in you and you're all of a sudden like bawling, crying, you didn't sit there and think about, why am I crying? Should I be crying right now? Is crying an appropriate response? Like, what, what about this movie is making me cry? There's no time for that. You just watch something, your brain defined it, and next thing you know, tears are rolling down your face. I know this because I'm not really much of a cry. But there's that one scene at the end of the Notebook where every time my daughter and I are like, oh my God, there's no way to change that response. It just happens. And this is the same also for when you get those hits of jealousy. When you watch something where you watch somebody give your partner a look or a flirt out at the grocery store, you're not thinking your way through that. Your body all of a sudden has like heat and your shoulders tense up and you're like, I want to fight them. And then you have to talk yourself off to let me.

My chest puffs out and I, I just give them like the stare with no blink.

Exactly. So those are emotional responses. There's no lag time between stimulus and response or reaction. It just happens. And it happens without our control. Especially until we do some sort of work like what you or I teach. So that energy, if you like scratch everything you've been programmed to believe about emotions being so feminine, like women are so emotional, that's, that's social programming. The actual energy and intent, that is a very young, very masculine driving train of an energy. There's nothing babbling brook about your body responding to somebody flirting with your partner in a grocery store. Okay? So that to me is that emotional side which we deem to be the masculine, energetic component. Then on the right hand side, we've got intuition, which is the feminine, energetic component where you're using all of your senses, you're not jumping to a conclusion. You're actually almost leaving time, space, projecting. How is this going to play out in the future? What do I know to be true about this person? What do I know to be true about this moment and this moment in time? How am I feeling, but how I'm perceiving this information, that's the babbling brook energy. And by the way, this is probably a good moment to remind a lot of people that they often confuse instinct and intuition, which is, I think, a very important distinction, because it's one of the main reasons that I really encourage anyone that has a deep spiritual practice or perceives themselves to be a healer or psychic. Do work like what Josh or I offer. Because you have to be able to remove these fear patterns to make sure that your intuition is truly intuition. Because usually intuition is partly contaminated or commingled with these fear patterns. So it's really coming from your gut rather than your zero point heart energy.

Oh my God, I love that you said, said that everything's so connected. I'm sorry, there was a little lag there. I didn't mean to cut you off.

No, no.

The reason I love what you said is because the way that, that duality and paradox exist is for a reason. It's what drives the energy of polarity. Like, we cannot have night without day. We cannot have masculine without feminine. We cannot have dark without light. Like, it's just, it's just how we're built. And it's the acceptance and the awareness of that that is so powerful. And it's what you're speaking to, to. Because we, we started this with masculine and feminine. And then of course, naturally it goes to instinct and intuition. Because I was even visualizing when you were speaking like, well, the babbling brook might be feminine, but what about like the hot spring? You know, the hot spring might be masculine and feminine combined. So there's. I don't think anything's ever black and white except for duality, which then that's a philosophical conversation for you and I. Can you contrast masculine and feminine with, with instinct and intuition? Because sometimes instinct can be like, to protect us from dying. And intuition could be like, commingled with that. Like there's a lot of gray area between the two and in masculine and feminine.

So it, it shouldn't be. Which is where I think collectively healers need to kind of step up to the plate a little bit more. Because intuition. I'll give an example. I have, I still have this fantastic psychic. I've had a lot over the time, but eventually, they get too bonded with me, and then they stop being able to see objectively. But this one particular one, he would say something, and because I, too, am psychic, I would look at him, and I'd be like, be honest with me. I was like, that's your opinion, isn't it? That's not your intuition. He had to really sit with it. And he was like, yeah, but I don't want to say the thing that my intuition's telling me. And I was like, yeah, but that's when you know it's real. Intuition actually is at odds with or goes against your current belief system. That's a really great checkpoint. Okay? And this happens very rarely for psychics, because their own woundedness is like seeing the intuitive hit and then speaking to you even through that lens. So really encourage healers to dig in here. There's more work to be done collectively, because intuition shouldn't be like that. Intuition should be completely free and removed from any of your beliefs and your patterns and your perception of what you're even seeing to then share with somebody. So instinct really is, I would say, more aligned with that emotional response. The survivor, right? Survival instinct. Even when people say, like, go with your gut, your gut is that survival instinct. In many cases, Your gut is Mr. Crude, which is why having this balance point, which I'll kind of take this one step further. So. So it's not like we just use this triangle as it is. There's actually an action to it. So when we look at stimuli coming from the external environment. Smell, touch, sound, taste, even here. This could be an intuitive hit, right? Coming in as a stimulus. What our bodies and brains are programmed to do is immediately react out of emotion. Right? We react out of instinct or pattern. Where we are best served is to actually be highly aware of what those reflexes are, how they feel in our body, what sorts of triggers set them off, and what sort of assumptions we usually make out of that triggering so that we go up to logic, and we're equipped with what we refer to and break as Eli questions, so we can very quickly shift our bodies out of that amygdala response and into more logical processing to actually stop the flood of neurotransmitter. So instead of actually allowing ourselves to become the Hulk, now we're like, okay, am I trying to react to this out of my childhood wound? Am I treating this person like they're my dad? Am I jumping to a conclusion here? And I don't actually have enough information to choose this emotion right now. Right. So now You've diffused your emotional response. And then we train you to then go to intuition. And now that you've removed any of those tricks that your brain would have you fall into, now you actually can sit there and say, like, what am I actually processing about this exact moment? So that your final balance point is that babbling brook. Like, what do I want in the future? Is this in my best interest for what I want for my future? What for what I want for my kids, what I want for my health? So that you finally make that last decision point out of intuition, but that you've removed any chance of contamination up to that point by going through it in that pattern.

And the instinct, I don't want to demonize instinct. I don't want to demonize ego. These are things that get to be embodied. Right? So I don't feel that from you at all. But, but I do want to just reiterate, like, instinct is something we learn super young, and it's epigenetically passed on to us as well. And even if you look at Mark Wolin's work, which we've had on the podcast, you know, healing Generational Trauma, there's that aspect as well. At times, not for everyone, but at times. So. So if we look at this as like really a masculine response, which is super cool, I'm glad you challenged my belief on that, because I'm always open to my beliefs being challenged, even if it's uncomfortable sometimes. How could you explain the language? Language of what is felt or what is heard when we look at instinct versus intuition, if intuition is a bit softer, maybe if instinct is more like a lightning bolt, like how does that work as far as hearing words or hearing guidance or feeling it?

So I actually think that the word instinct is often misused and again, kind of commingled with intuition. Instinct to me, has a much more specific architecture, right? And it really is often more of an if X then Y sort of pattern where intuition doesn't actually follow any sort of set structure, right? You could, you could be doing something and all of a sudden your brain showing you some stream of images that make no sense whatsoever. And that could be an intuitive hit. Whereas instinct usually gives you some sort of. Of input and response that your brain is trying to push you into for some sort of reason, which is why, you know, instinct could be. Be to hide. Instinct could be. Let's use my example, right? If I'm. If I really kind of lean heavily into self reliance, my instinct could be to put everyone's work on my plate without using my voice, like, oh, if, if things look uncomfortable here, I'll just do more. Right. Instinct it can have, which is why again, you're saying, like, you don't want to demonize it. Of course not. It can have a positive ripple effect out in the world, right? When I show up more and I take on more work that can make other people lives better. But also if I keep acting out of that instinct rather than treating the situation as if it's brand new and making sure I'm reacting to what's presently happening rather than seeing it through the lens of everything I've done in the past so that I just reflexively always take on more work. I'm potentially robbing other people of opportunities to take on responsibility. I'm robbing people of chances to show up for me and show me that they are trustworthy, and I'm robbing people of chances to grow. And because if I keep responding to my environment as if it's the past, I'm then going to trigger them to do the very same thing. So by allowing ourselves to look at this instinct, which is usually our brain trying to keep us safe, whether that is showing up a certain way in a relationship or performing a certain way at work, we're often better served to go through at least the list of things that can, can get us out of this past perspective and back rooted into the present and balance it with this kind of big picture, multidimensional way of thinking with intuition. Which, by the way, I give this example in my work because it's important to remember that sometimes instinct is what needs to happen because it keeps, actually physically keeps you safe. So when I first teach this example of how Eli works, I try to use a really tangible example of being tickled. So when I was a little kid, I had an uncle that used to tickle me all the time and I hated it. And he would do it in front of all of his friends and it was really embarrassing. So if I look at it from an adult perspective, naturally the emotional response that I have to being tickled if I don't work at it is the second I start to get tickled, I quite literally want to scream at the person, throw them off of me, and like swear and just go completely black wild. So I give one example where let's say we know that this is my instinctive pattern to tickling. I'm at home on, on my bed, on my computer, and I feel like a little tickle on the back of my rib cage, right? But I Also am aware of this pattern. I can go up to logic and say, is this my uncle? No, I haven't seen my uncle in 10 years. Is this about the time that my fiance comes home? Yep. And does he know not to tickle me? He does, but this was kind of like a little tickle. Like maybe he just forgot for a second. He's just trying to be kind, right? So I've talked myself off the ledge. I haven't just abruptly turned around and been like, get the F off of me. So then I go down to intuition. I'm actually looking at him and I, I assess, does he look like he's trying to provoke me? Because, hey, like maybe sometimes they're doing it actually to try to provoke you, right? Like his soul, his shoulders are soft. He's like, hey, honey, how was your day? Right? And then I actually have the ability to intuitively look at him and look at his body language and feel his energy. And I'm like, hey, honey, my day was great, right? And I didn't actually try to attack him. But now let's shift the same person, same pattern into a bar, right? I'm out with my girlfriends at the bar. Everyone's drinking, which I don't do anymore, but everyone's drinking. I'm, you know, my fiance is not with me. All of a sudden, I feel a tickle again on my ribcage from behind. Is this my uncle? No. Am I in a safe place? Not really. Like, would you expect anyone to be behind you tickling? No. I can see all my girlfriends in front of me. So I go to intuition, I turn around, I look at this person, and it is somebody that is invading my personal space and my boundaries. And this person actually does deserve an F off. Please, please leave me alone.

This is the time for your response.

This is the time for the response. But what's interesting is that the instinctive pattern here where if I had allowed this to happen without working my way through it, I would have been treating the person behind me like it was my uncle out of the childhood pattern, which wasn't out of protection for my well being, that was out of embarrassment versus this, now that I've actually run myself all the way through and I've actually landed back at this kind of angry, protective response I'm reacting to. Protect. Protection. Solely protection and boundaries, which is not something I'm addicted to. So I've actually not fed the loop of my neurotransmitters because I'm not addicted to protection. I'm addicted to Having to like free myself from some sort of embarrassing, oppressive.

Such a great example. The gap between stimulus and response. Obviously we know Viktor Frankl man's search for meaning. But also the way that you described the clear distinction between intelligence, intuition and that kind of old school biological like get away from me. The response where it's like, this is my instinctual thing. But I think instinct is important too because as a mom or a dad, if somebody's messing with your child, like mama bear, papa bear is going to come in, you know, do some damage, like it's just going to happen. So. So I think about the way that.

We don't want to do away with. Right, exactly. Those are instincts that truly do keep us protected and should be part of our biology. But we accidentally can conflate other reflexive responses with those same protective instincts.

It feels like this. The real practice is the power of choice in between that stimulus and response. Obviously. But just because again it's, it's like easy to see it doesn't mean it's going to be simple to execute. And I think about the way that so many people busy, like they'll get stuck in the intellectualism of this work and they'll bit, they'll get totally neck up. They won't understand somatics, they don't understand like what their body is telling them and the body's intelligence. And they'll go down this route of like going to Tony Robbins to Mitt, to ala, to all these programs and they'll just hop and hop and hop and they never heal. They actually, in my opinion, they get stuck in the process of healing.

Yeah, they're, they're addicted to the healing.

They're addicted to the healing. It's become like this identity that they can intellectualize with their mind but their heart is like, what about me? Can you talk about this? Because this is something that I know you go very deep into. It seems like it's a corner of your program. This is this getting stuck, people getting stuck in emotional healing.

Yeah. So I actually in fact tell people that are those what I would deem to be like a self help junkie? I tell them, my goal for you is for this to be the very last thing that you ever do. Because that like healing shouldn't be a perpetual cycle. We always say that we want to help you get out of a healing cycle and into the phase of actually being healed with an edge. So lots, lots to this I would say in general part of the problem is that this intellectualization that you're Referring to is like they're so highly aware of all these different things, but there's no embodiment or somatic practice and, and structure to actually moving it through and out of your body and actually changing the chemical responses within your body. That's when you move from awareness to action. And a lot of these things are just so focus on awareness and the action steps are written out in a way where it's like, yeah, you know what to do. But they haven't actually gone through the process of rewiring the subconscious to match with the conscious. Which is why I always use the example. It's like somebody going on a date when they really don't want to be single anymore. And they've read all the books of how not to screw up their date and they're trying to do everything right. Their brain's like ticking through all the highlights and notes that they have made on their book. But as soon as the person looks down at their phone and the person's subconscious is like, oh no, what if they're texting somebody else? Like, what if? Right? They already jumped all these wild conclusions, all bets are off. Everything they've just learned in that book is out the window. Because now the subconscious is behind the wheel like a bat out of hell. And it doesn't matter how many times you've read or written highlights in your Date with Destiny notes, your subconscious is in control now. So we teach people how to do is to not only address conscious decision making, but to actually tangibly rewire your subconscious along the way. And we do this in a course of. Sorry. Of course my headphones just fell out when I did that.

I like the Date with Destiny notes. That's so true. And it's not to knock those programs, they're powerful, but you have to embody them.

Yes, you have to embody. It can't just. It can't just live on your notes. Which is why in our program, which is four months, months long, there's a very. I describe it to people that are like, I just want to understand how your program works. And it's kind of a crude way of describing it, but I think everyone can hold the visual of a rat in a maze where the scientists are essentially changing out different stimuli inside of this maze to essentially change or manipulate the rats behavior inside of this maze. That's why we call it structured self inquiry. We have four months where you of your own free will, walk into this maze, knowing that you're gonna walk out a completely different empowered person. But that you're probably going to despise me multiple times throughout the four months and the process. Because that is exactly what you're doing. I'm intentionally walking you into a wall. You splat on the wall and you're like, God, that really hurt. And then the very next lecture is, this is what just happened, happened. What were the thoughts that were happening when you hit the wall? And you do this successfully for four months and you quite literally have merged your subconscious and your conscious recording tracks into one congruent directive, which is what most people don't do. They either focus on one or the other. They're like, I'm doing inner child work and like hypnosis, which great. You're not going to be able to change your conscious day to day behavior. Or if you just do the conscious day to day behavior, you might be a very aware of their.

You know, this is a deep, deep difference between intellectualizing healing and embodying healing. And I can't like reiterate this enough. Like, this is why I knew we were going to have a bombshell conversation. But like, wow, this is one of my favorite ones I think I've ever had. This is like, no BS either. Like I really. There's something about what you've been through, the way that you've embodied your knowledge and the way that you are just able to trust yourself. I get that from you. Like, you really trust yourself. I heard Larry King talk about that. He's like, I've done all these interviews, I don't have any notes. He's like, you know how I did it? I just trusted myself. And I'm like, man, that's totally my journey too. That's so many of our journeys just to trust ourselves in every moment. Does the trusting component go into not getting stuck in the emotional healing? Do you feel like there's people that maybe don't trust themselves or they don't have the courage to trust themselves, so they intellectualize their healing and. And that's why they stay stuck.

Absolutely. So I actually just saw this comment on one of our, our fall semesters about halfway through right now. And this person wrote all about how for the first time they actually understand what self trust means. But the way to cultivate that in a large body of people that have literally been programmed from early childhood not to trust themselves. Because often what we see, see is that when a child has the ability to be authentically themselves at like let's say 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, if that somehow is perceived at odds with how we do Things in the family or how your religion's supposed to make you be. They often end up getting negative feedback or feeling rejection or like their disappointment for things that just feel inherently to be themselves. So then they have to learn to shut that down because they're like, oh, I guess being like myself is not safe. Then they reflexively become either a people pleaser or just shut down and try to hide. So there's so much of that prevalent in our society and then again it's capitalized upon by these larger structures that we spent the whole beginning part of the episode talking about. So I would say in the course of my work, we have roughly about 250 students per semester going through the four months, I would say 75% or more are dealing with that self trust issue where this hits them in trying to do anything academic or even trust that they understood a concept to fill out a piece of paper. So one of the things that I go out really hard is to remind them that we do not help them with their learned helplessness. We don't help them phone a friend. We don't help them just sit there on the form and be like, did anybody else find this really confusing? Because all they're trying to do is get somebody else to co sign how hard it was for them so that they don't have to actually rise above that and learn to cultivate self trust. So what we find in our program is that we tell them like this is going to hurt and that's going to hurt. And these are the accountability advisors that we have and how they can help you through that, but we're not going to help you through it in a way that takes the responsibility off of your shoulders. Because you can only only learn this if you actually keep holding that personal responsibility. So I think really at the end of the day, what I ended up commenting back to this guy is that really this whole program is built to cultivate self trust and self reliance. Because if we are dependent on anybody else, any of the work that you've just done is basically irrelevant. That's why we call it the school of Sustainable Self mastery. For it to be sustainable, you have to be able to do it as well without me as a lifeline as you do when you have me as a life as a lifeline. Because I don't want to create that codependency. I want you to change your life, change the way you parent, change the generations that come after you, and to change the lives of people. When you go into Starbucks, when you go to the grocery store, right? Like so many of us are just busy and emotionally enraged all the time. You can change the world, literally by changing how you react at every moment of the day to people that you don't even know. And then they'll come to you and they'll be like, why are you so cool? And you're like, well, I did this thing called grape.

This is so great. Because I think about all the work that I've done and really it's only been in 2020 where I feel like I can really hold space for other people. And that might have been like a limiting belief in the past because it was probably always there. But there's something about what you're describing where when you're actually committed to reparenting yourself and you really are willing to go through whatever fire is takes and not get people jumping on your back agreeing with you about how hard it is. Because we all know how hard it is. It's fucking hard. It's really hard. But in order to have this, like, I love how you say this, this structured self mastery, like this structured inquiry, it's the structure. You look at nature. Nature isn't all 100% feminine. It's not just flying everywhere. There's structure in nature. Like, look at how water flows. It flows because the hillside carves out a path for it. And so if you yourself are watching this and if you're feeling like, okay, this is inspiring to me, like there's some kind of experience you're having in your body where you trust what Busy is saying, please go to her website. Where can people learn about you? Where can they dig in so you.

Can go to breakmethod.com and actually what's really exciting is you. This podcast is probably gonna air right when my first book launches, so that's kind of great. I just debuted at our event this last weekend, so. So there's a 30 day workbook that comes out on November 1st called the Self Study. And it actually is a great first step to jumping headfirst into structured self inquiry without having to do the four month course. So it's really accessible. Every single thing that I teach is kind of broken down into a daily micro lesson. So essentially if I were to take the body of at least the first phase of the work that people do in the four month course and teach it to you in daily 15 minutes segments, that's really what the book is. And I think that's honestly the best place to start. Our winter semester opens for enrollment on January 1st. We do them four times a year. We also offer a variety of different mini courses. But I would say at this stage of the game, based on where we're at in the enrollment cycle, jumping into the self study and maybe finding somebody to buddy up and do it at the same time as you would be a really great way to get started with the work and to get really primed with that process of self inquiry. Every day has the micro lesson and then also has a field work activity. So you get to actually put what you just learned into action out in your environment and in your brain. So.

Well, I think people have been so moved by this. I mean, I have for sure, you know, in, in my higher self. Thanks. Your higher self. Because there's been so many years where I've been like a slave to anxiety. I mean, it's just utterly fascinating. The breath has helped me, psychedelics have helped me. But I don't believe that's a starting place. I believe a starting place is first awareness and self inquiry. So if you're looking for this awareness and self inquiry, yes, we have our breathwork programs and we have our breathe, breath and wellness. But this is a cut above. This is a totally separate thing besides the modality of breath. As you reflect on your life, you know, sitting here with me now and everything that's left in 2020, 2020, how would you define the concept, the definition of wellness? Like what does it mean to live your life well? How would you define wellness?

To live your life? Well, I think you have to understand at your core where you want to go and who you want to be, because that then is going to be reverse engineered into what wellness is going to mean for you. Wellness, I think, is a combination of understanding your own internal wants, needs and desires. How your body functions optimally in terms of what sort of fuel sources you're putting in there and what sorts of boundaries you're putting up and how you're sharing the energy with other people. I think people sometimes conflate wellness like only with the fuel sources, but who we're giving and receiving energy with and how we're actually expressing those boundaries and holding up those boundaries is equally a part of wellness. And it's really challenging for people to, to know the what and how of that if they don't know where they want to go with their lives. And I would say one, one step with that too. It's really hard to prioritize wellness when you don't do the work, to at least expand into some sort of bigger existential questions. In life. So find that so many people lean heavy into the very tangible three dimensional fuel sources without prioritizing some of that existential exploration and you have so much to gain gain from not landing on solid answers, but allowing yourself to explore in that space. Because it creates something that I call controlled surrender, where it's like if you're a control freak and you need to know what's going to happen next, once you expand in that way, you can actually lean into this comfort of saying I am choosing to surrender to the fact that I know so much and also so But I do trust that I'm here for a reason and that as long as I prioritize the following things with my physical, energetic and spiritual body, that whatever is meant to be for the collective and I'm being used correctly, then that's what's meant to be. So think those things all together.

Great definition. The website is busygold.com where can people connect with you right now?

You can go to busygold.com because I do a bunch of other stuff. Busygold.com will link you to other podcast episodes and then also podcast that I do sporadically, but I also do a lot of business stuff there. So as it pertains to this particular area, I would head over to breakmethod.com cool.

What a joy. Again. Thank you. And until we both see you again on this journey, Busy and I are wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you guys soon. Thanks for watching. Please share this podcast with people that would get value from this, which is pretty much everyone. So share this podcast. Thank you and love and wellness. Bye Bye.

Sam.