Danielle LaPorte | Forgiveness: Heart Centered Healing Wisdom To Build Resiliency | Wellness Force

The question has gone from how do you want to feel? To what do you want to embody? Because what I'm clear on now is that feelings really come from the unconscious, from the subconscious, and that's cool. It's part of being human. We want to embrace those feelings. We don't want to over identify with the feelings. We're not our feelings. Your happiness or your sadness or your sorrow cannot take you out of the game of enlightenment. I'm not my misery. I'm not even my good mood that day. I'm a soul having this experience. And these clouds called emotions are. They're coming and they're going, and I'm going to look at them and I'm going to love them, but I'm going to. I'm not going to be the rain cloud. I'm going to be the sky.

Danielle, welcome to Wellness Force.

I'm stoked for this conversation. I have no idea where this is going to go.

It'll go somewhere of service. And you know, it's funny, like you're, you're a woman who speaks with this incredible wisdom. I was sharing before we recorded that back in 2020, John Weiland, I was in a group and it was a community group. And you showed up at 7 in the morning and it was like as soon as you arrived, the energy of the call shifted. And I feel like you're someone that knows how to bring a calmness and a heart center to the storms we all experience as humans. But you yourself, I mean, you've been through so many storms in life. Like fired from a business you co founded and put your own publicity agency. And you never went to university future studies think tank in Washington DC. I mean, you've had multiple heroes, journeys, dark nights of the soul. So it's this perfect frame for the conversation where we find ourselves as humans right now. We were chatting on Instagram and what you said was really profound. I was like, danielle, how are you guiding your community right now? Like, what's really going on in your heart and soul with your community? And you said, I'm suggesting a whole lot of compassion, a big wake up to censorship. If we can come together to respect choices, then maybe more people will wake up to healthier choices. Because. Because, whoa. Because I gotta ask you, like, what's, what's the woe? When you say whoa, what is that really? What is somatically, how do you experience the woe? What is the woe?

The woe is sorrow. The woe is, wow, people are waking up. The woe Is like, these are the times, you know, I think like so many of us have been able to say, like, yeah, you knew something big was coming, or, you know, or you can get out there and say, like, I knew I incarnated for something great or. But like this, this is really unprecedented. Like, this is nothing like this in human memory. So like, whoa. And the heartbreak, whoa, my God, I'm in the heartbreak conversation with all of my heart centered members and facilitators. It's like we're having the conversation about polarization and how people are dealing with their mother in law and their neighbor and their selves.

And.

It'S a lot of woe.

The woe is real. And I started to feel it way before. I mean, when I was a child actually. I always wondered like, hey, you adults, like, why do you treat each other so poorly? Like, what's going on here? Like, what, what is this whole anger, vitriol, resentment, contempt. I mean, fill in the blank with all the emotions that we all experience. And ever since I was a kid, it was like, there's gotta be something different than this. There's got to be something else. I mean, it's what sparked my journey to have this podcast where we explore the physical and the emotional intelligence that you talk about in your programs that I think God gave us. And when I say God, Danielle, I don't mean some bearded dude in the sky. You know, this God word gets thrown around a lot. And with your work and everything you've done, has your definition of God, has the gender of God, has the meaning of God shifted for you? And if it has, was it profound? Was it all of a sudden from someone from your stature, like, how do you even explain God? What does that even mean to you?

I would say that my relationship with God has shifted. It's gotten more intimate. And for a long time I had this relationship where I was waiting to get punished. I really, I really, I was raised Catholic and I thought I was over Catholicism and not just like sort of peace out to Catholicism, but that like I'd healed all the damage that organized religion had done. You know, having being really clear, I'm in grade two and I'm being taught concepts about original sin. And I'm thinking to myself, just, you know, my little nine year old brain, it's like, this is off, this is off. That leaves a deep impression. The journey was I left Catholicism, but I really just replaced that kind of punishment and reward dynamic with a new age that if I meditated enough that I was, if I Was tantra enough or pure enough or malabit enough or whatever, I would get that, which I was working for, that I was praying it was still. It was just like another I want to win, I want to earn divine favor dynamic. And that's over. I mean, there's still residue from that, but I am now, you know, my prayer now is I want to know your perfect love, and I want to be that perfect love. So first you have to believe it exists. That is possible. And I don't think you have to believe that you're worthy. I mean, we can have a whole conversation about worth. I really think that's some dualistic stuff that the ego does on us. But just to. Just to wonder if, like, does perfect love exist? I think conceptually, we all think, of course, there's. There's agape and there's unconditional love, and we feel that love for our children. And you take a bullet for your kids and, you know, that degree of. That intense degree of love. But does it exist for me? And if it exists for me, can everybody wake up to it existing for them? And so that's the shift with my relationship with creation, that I am perfectly loved, and I don't even have to get my own loving perfect, but that's what I aspire for.

I feel like even in the perfect, there's the imperfect. Right. So if you look at the technology side of this question, Ray Kurzweil and all his work, he's like, well, you know, the technium is consciousness experiencing itself. And then on the spiritual side, there's all as one. So how do you make sense of these two narratives? It's so fascinating to me. We have technology on one side, and we have our hearts and our emotions on the other.

Well, we have the misuse of technology on one side. Yeah. So I think anything that is disconnected from the heart, it doesn't matter how sexy, how algorithmic, how intellectual, how well financed it is without the heart, it is. I mean, we play with that stuff at our own peril. So I actually think that that that kind of conversation, that specific conversation where technology meets consciousness is. It's a bit wanky for me.

How so?

Well, I. We're really running into some dangerous territory here within morality and playing God and separating ourselves from true consciousness. I mean, I'm. I could ask myself, well, it's like, you know, do I have room in my thinking for the possibility that a soul could animate an inanimate object? Well, everything is made of light. Everything is energy, everything is soul. But I'm talking about, like, you know, Ken, a soul infiltrate, let's just say a robot called Grace who is going to act like your nurse and is going to attempt to replace human contact. Human contact, human energy. The soul is irreplaceable. And to.

We're.

I mean, we're just creating more mirrors within a house of mirrors on a very fragile structure of a Babylon that needs to come down.

So.

I'm really just interested in a conversation about how everything can be used to get us back to love. Everything is built for returning people to the awareness that we are all connected and that we are made of love by love, for love. And it's this about getting back to our true nature. And I think the, you know, transhumanism is very, very far away from our true nature. And just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. That's the definition of morality.

Yes, right there. So profound. Because I have sat through so many people in the wellness technology world, and on one hand, they say they want to help people, but it feels like the real intention is profit. It feels like they're profiting off of the new greatest thing. When really, like, if we look at nature, nowhere in nature is there ever, year over year over year, constant growth, like the laws of nature. Trees grow and then they die. Everything has a cycle. Everything. So we have so much hubris that we think that we can just take capitalism and use it in an unconscious way. Like you said something recently on your Instagram so profound. You said, I'm not trying to save the world anymore. And I saw that. I think it was, like two days ago. And it hit me in the heart. You said, not because I think my actions don't matter. Every action by every one of us counts. And I'm not giving up on the world because I believe it's a lost cause. We're at a fantastic threshold of awakening. I believe what you believe. I think Facebook Metaverse is not coming from love. I think that all these technologies and the Internet of things, they're not always for our greater good. They're not actually trying to connect us, but they come as a wolf in sheep's clothing that pretends it wants to connect us. How do you see us at this threshold of awakening? Like, what the hell is going on right now?

Well, my experience is that suffering wakes me up. Suffering wakes me up. Aspiration keeps me awake. I think we're in this in a storm of suffering. Like, just. Let's just wake up in this moment and say, like, things Aren't right. People are suffering to extreme degrees. This has been going on for centuries and we still haven't figured out how to clean up the space that in which we live now. Our bodies are not healthy, our psychology is not healthy, the soil is not healthy. But we're trying to create more vessels to capitalizes, you know, commodify.

Yeah.

I think where we're at is this is a call to forgive. Like, the image I've had for the last couple years is like, it's this portal, it's this passage. And in order to fit through it and to get through this unscathed, to get through it, like awake and alive and thriving, we're going to have to unarmor. We're going to have to throw some stuff overboard. What can you not take with you to a new Earth? What can you not take with you to Utopia? Or, you know what, what can you not take with you to just like happiness and health? You cannot take your grievances with you. You cannot take your toxicity with you. So really, really, if we just played with the idea, just play with it, everybody's consider right now, what would your personal micro life and the big macro look like if you just like forgave everybody, you forgave your family of origin for not giving you what you think you deserved, what you probably deserved. You forgive your neighbor for the stress they caused because they don't see things the same way that you do. You even forgive the oligarchy and all this like blatant obvious tyranny that's happening on the planet right now. He's like, how can you make that forgivable? You say, well, everybody's playing their. Like every movie has the shitty character. Someone's got to play it. And you know that, that the bad actor, the guy who's playing the bad guy in the movie, when he goes home, he's a good guy. So when we go home, when we like go back to source, when we're not in these suitcases anymore, we all go back to being the good guy. May take lifetimes or other dimensions, but like, we're all from the same source. We're all soul. We all come back to love. So. But back to suffering. It's a wake up call. This is a wake up call to like, take care of each other. What else could it be? What else could it be? I mean, you think really fatalistically, like, you know, we're just swimming in our own shit, or this is an opportunity for a new world order, or it's an opportunity for some people to make billions of dollars off of suffering. Lots of different opportunities. Choose your opportunity. I'm going to choose the opportunity to love more. I'm going to choose the opportunity to forgive. And so far, so good for me. Like, on my macro level, just my little life, I really leaned into forgiveness in the last couple years. Oh my God, I sleep so much better. It's so much better letting people off the hook.

But what's been one of the hardest things to forgive? I mean, when I look at what's happening with censorship we talked about on Instagram together, goodness gracious, like my nervous system, I have to do deep work. You know, I, I identify as an hsp. I felt that way ever since I was a kid. Hence maybe why adults need to treat each other better. But this forgiveness you speak about, it's like, before forgiveness there has to be awareness. There has to be an emotional ladder to get us to forgiveness. I think somebody hearing you might, it might resonate with their soul. But to actually forgive, I think we have to experience pain. That's not a very popular opinion because there's a lot of people that say, well, just do what feels good. Good vibes only. Which I consider to be much spiritual bypassing.

Well, do we have to feel pain or is that just the way it is? Like, there is suffering in life. It just is what it is. We're going to suffer. The question then becomes like, okay, how are you going to approach your suffering? And how you approach your suffering depends on how you see yourself. Are you seeing yourself as a victim or as the vanquisher? Are you seeing yourself as your past? Are you seeing yourself as the 8 year old boy who didn't get what he wanted? Am I seeing myself as an entrepreneur who has a Persona? Am I seeing myself as the wound or as the healer? And that changes how I approach some days. What feels like a rage over censorship or rage over a divorce that happened years ago. And my practices too, I mean, there's a couple layers. So my practice is like, oh my gosh, you know, I was in a, I was in a store a couple of weeks ago and I'm in the back of the store and I'm, I'm wearing a mask and I just pulled down my mask to breathe because, you know, it's good to breathe. Oxygen's awesome. And I was, There were like three people in the store and they were all 40 people 40ft away from me. And retail dude said, you know, came up and just really nicely said, hey, can we just get you to. And he kind of gave me the gesture, you know, pull my mask up.

Oh, my God. And.

I was so enraged in that moment, just like that inner flare up. And then I got to catch myself and say, okay, okay, okay. What is it that we both want here? We both want to be in our power so I can judge him. He's having a nice little power trip and moment. I also don't know his story. This is beyond belief system about science and what works and what doesn't work. This is a moment between two humans. I don't know who he's working for. I don't know his abuse story. I don't know how he needs to feel connected that day. So I'm just going to leave lots of space for mystery about why he felt compelled to do something that I thought was absurd, ridiculous, and a bit oppressive. Then I have to look at myself and say, what is it that I want in that moment? I just want to be in my power as well. But really, what's happening for. I'll just speak for myself in this moment, because who knows? He could have been enlightened, and I'm not joking. What's happening for me in that moment is I'm in my wounded self. I'm in my shadow self where I slip into the thinking that somebody has power over me. Nobody, nobody, nobody outside of ourselves has power outside of us. But in that moment, I'm just thinking, I go into that shadow space of he's trying to control me, and for a moment, he has control over me. No, he doesn't. I can still choose to honor his request and still know that I'm a sovereign being. I'm just a ball of energy, actually just a ball of love. But my ego is very easily offended. And that's what I'm working on. And if your ego is so offended, you are going to have a real hard time forgiving. And my experience, and specifically in the last couple years, is, is forgiveness is actually more about asking for forgiveness than going up and saying to someone, I forgive you, or even just in your own heart forgiving somebody. It's asking for forgiveness of yourself. You're putting yourself, putting yourself in the situation and all your reactions to yourself that are vastly damaging, you know, carrying around all that bitterness. And it's being at ease enough to ask somebody to forgive you for your shitty behavior and the grudge you've carried. And there is no room for the shadow in that kind of light.

That kind of interaction I've dealt with multiple times and I think the challenge for me and probably this entire audience is why are you trying. Why are you attempting to take away my sovereignty? Because on one hand, we could say that, oh, it's just a mask. Like it truly is. It's just. It's just censorship. It's just a mask. But totalitarianism, negative energy, it leaves clues. There's a roadmap to how things change in our society. So in no way. In no way am I comparing apples to apples here when I make this metaphor. But I have heard multiple people who were children during the Holocaust, and they have gone on record speaking about what they went through and how it felt and what was said and the propaganda that was around. And they're literally saying in their 80s and 90s now that they're experiencing the same feelings with what's transpiring in our world. So, yes, I agree with you, Danielle. It is just a mask. You can take the higher path. You can say, well, this person doesn't have control over me because I can just ask for forgiveness.

Let's pull back, though. Pull back because this is hot. So whether it's a mask or it's in your romantic partnership and someone wants you to love them in a particular way, like, I need you to put everything down when I come into the door and look me in the eye, give me a kiss, tell me that you love me. Now. Someone who is really in, really unhealed is going to say, like, that's control. You're trying to control me. Someone who's more healed and is aspiring to embody love is going to say, all right, babe, is that what you need? I'm going to give it to you. And then you have that experience of what it is to meet someone. And you can even be having judgment. You can even see that sometimes someone's making a request, and I'm going to pull this back out into tyranny. Someone is making the request from their unhealed wounded shadow, maybe even their evil, dark side self, you know? And you can from your wholeness say, let me give you what you want, because I have so much to give, because I realize that I am free, because I'm committed to peace. That's totally different vibration than doing something out of fear. Okay, so let's go to tyranny for a second. Whether you are a manipulative lover or you are a corrupt politician, you're coming from an unhealed place. Let's pause there. I'd say the majority of people, human, all souls on this journey together. Yeah, okay. Now I think we need to leave some room for a more cosmic conversation where, you know, I think there's actually a lot of people on the planet who are soulless, and there's a lot of embodied darkness. And I think that's what, you know, all the prophecies around World War 3, this isn't. This is not, like, going to look like it used to look. It looks like it does now. There's a war happening, you know, and the call. I think the big call is to be the counterbalance. Like, if you want to stop a war, you choose peace. And we've had lots of models of this. Whether you want to look at, you know, Gandhi's pacifism or. Or Martin Luther King, they were the antidote to what was going on. So is it helpful for me to rile against a tyrannical leader personally, to attack his person or her person? No. It's just. You become what you're fighting. Right. Is it useful for me to be a stand for love and compassion and forgiving and inclusiveness? That's very useful because that is the antidote to the gross injustices that have been happening for a long time that are just coming to a head. I mean, I hope what we're seeing is. Is the head of this, because if this continues, it's. It's going to. These are. This is a dark scenario.

I loved the layers you unpack there, because I've been feeling since March 2020 last year. I knew right away, like, as soon as it came down in the media, something in my soul, something in my guidance system was like, this is not what it seems to be. And you're right, there's been a lot of things appearing as maybe good, or there's been a lot of totality, totalitarian regime that's been unfolding for a long time, for hundreds of years. I feel like as a society, we're kind of like a teenager. You know, if you look way back every millennia, it's like, well, women were treated like property then. People with different skin were beaten, owned as slaves. Then, okay, women now can vote. Oh, but you can vote, but you have certain things you can't do. And we're just, like, constantly growing. And so I feel like we're in a major societal maturation where we're. We're actually learning as a people, as a tribe, how to be a fucking adult. Like, how to actually be an adult. And, you know, you're a parent. I'm a parent, too. Four months old. I have a lot to learn. But There are times when I'm so tired and I don't want to go feed him or I don't want to walk him, but I fucking do it anyways because I love him. Yeah, so how do, how do we take that kind of an example and how do we apply it to how we are collectively experiencing the world right now? How can we all become parents in a way?

Well, you can look at your own tyranny. So just, just clean up yourself and take care of the people around you. So I look at my own inner violence, my violence against myself, my violence against other people. It might not have the same expression as violence that other people are enacting. Like, I'll give you an example. A couple months ago, I'm driving through my neighborhood and there's a big brawl happening on the corner between some cops and some untoward dudes. And it's like super upsetting to see that kind of violence in real life, you know, and, and there's lots of screaming. And I just think, oh my God, this is so savage and so unevolved. And I'm, I'm kind of hating on everybody while I'm, you know, I'm hating the cops. I'm hating the kind of look like a junkie kind of guy stole something, you know. Okay, okay, all right. You know, where's my own violence? And it's just, for me, it's just some wicked thoughts I have that sometimes I think some people be better off if they just weren't here. That's violent. Gotta look at that. I gotta look at my own very subtle forms of over controlling us. In my relationship with my kid, with my team, with whoever, I've got to look at my own greed. I've got to look at all the time where, you know, I wanted to. I could give a lot more money away. I should be, you know, like every dollar I make, I should consider how it can benefit somebody else. Yeah, I've got to clean up my own. If I can walk through this world and not be triggered. If I can walk through this world and wish the best for people who I think are doing the greatest harm, then I'm living a meaningful life and I'm actually being of service to the world. When you start to clean up your stuff, you have that intimate relationship with your heart, with your soul, you will start to include other people in your plans and your bucket list is not going to look so self centered anymore. And you know, I'm sure you're, you're aware of this. I mean, we're all seeing this dynamic where a lot of people who think know what's going on, nobody really knows what's going on are, you know, planning for power outages and inflation and interruptions to the food chain. And they're really looking into food sustainability and security. And I'm considering all those things myself. But if those are all only for yourself, you're missing the point. You're missing the point of the lesson here. I think we had this beautiful opportunity with this medical situation, this health situation on the planet to finally come together and to embrace each other and to care about our health and our wellness. And what it did was it just divided us further and we've got to start considering our neighbors well being, the well being of the worst among us and the will of the divine, that this is no longer my will. And what can I hustle? And you know, the day of the hack and the singular bucket list is done.

Yeah. So you feel like that transitions us into being better parents of our own family, of our community. Because man, when I look at your, so much of what you talk about is about this intelligence, this intelligence of love. And you know, I feel like what we do with Wellness Force is we honor the intelligence in us all. And sometimes intelligence can be kind of cunning, where someone might seem smart, they might be a doctor, they might have a wall full of books, and they get stuck in this gathering phase where they're just gathering intelligence. But the real meat and potatoes, like where the rubber hits the road is are you going to apply what you know and are you going to eventually embody it?

Well, this is a great part of the dynamics of the heart, because wisdom has nothing zero to do with intelligence. We've all met people who would get labeled as simple and they get what the what is. And really it's like the accumulation of knowledge and who's right and who's wrong. And it's an ego play. So unless you're using the your knowledge on behalf of love, I mean, this goes back to touching on transhumanism. It's just setting us back. You're just digging a hole. It's the misappropriation of the mind, really.

Yeah, well, I'm very strong in my mind. That's the thing that I not battle with. Battle's the wrong word. But that's what I contend with, what I befriend. So many people try to destroy the ego at times, especially in this world that I dance in and that you've been in for so long. And that is spiritual growth. Growth of self.

Tell me what you mean when you say you're strong in your mind. Break that down for me.

When I'm strong in my mind, it means that when there's a problem, I usually go to my mind first to solve it. Now, if I'm really smart, if I'm really intelligent, I'll take 60 breaths because then I'll close that space between my head and my heart. Because my heart usually knows the best way. Actually, it always knows the best way. But sometimes, depending on the degree of whatever is coming in, whatever the threat is, whatever the problem is, whatever I feel like I need to solve, I will go to the mind. And so that's why breath work has been so massive in my life, you know, it's why I teach my students the same thing. It's like, if I can breathe, I can choose. It's on my arm. Italian. If I can breathe, I can choose. So if I can breathe, I can close that gap between my head and my heart. Not in some intellectual way, but in a real feeling way. I can actually use them together. I don't want to be at odds with my. My body or my mind, my heart or my mind. So that's what I mean when I say I'm sometimes still learning. Actually, all the time I'm still learning how to join those two. Especially when the onslaught is intense. When I see people giving away their freedom, giving away their sovereignty, when I see censorship happening, like, we don't need to talk about all the problems because we all feel that they're there. But as I look for the solutions on how to bring more love to it, how to be intelligent, how to actually embody this intelligence, that's a massive learning curve, you know, and it's. It's super nuanced. So I'm curious how you would plug in sacred anger to that. Where is a place for sacred anger? As we become better parents, clean up our space, become more intelligent. How does sacred anger play into this?

Well, all qualities of the heart, the energy of the heart is inclusive. So anger is only sacred is if it's including the benefit of others. So if it's vengeance to kind of right the wrong, or, you know, if it's this eye for an eye kind of dynamic, it's not sacred, it's profane. If your anger is on behalf of humanity, it's like, if I could take this anger and put it in the right direction, and justice looks like everyone has clean drinking water and all children are protected, and everybody has medical freedom. I mean, that Is that that? That's it.

That's it.

But when anger is like, you gotta go down so that I can feel justified. That is ridiculous.

Yeah, I feel you on that. And we need a map. We need a map. Okay. Like so much of your work five years ago, I think it was about five, six years ago, the desire map, your book that. I don't know how much it sold, but it's in probably the millions of copies. This was a map that helped people really decide. Like, hey, where do I go? Like, I have some pretty big questions in my life and I'm trying to get clarity. Like, when you look back five years ago, has that map changed for you in the way you wrote the book? What's the most profound way it's changed?

Oh, this is a great question because. Because, yes, the question with the desire map, I mean, it was all about getting clear that your feelings matter. I mean, that was the waking point for lots of people who read the book. It's just like, I mean, it may sound trivial and base, but lots of people didn't get, like, their feelings matter. And we sort of have. We have it backwards. Like, instead of going after all the external things, I want the house, etc. Etc. And the job and all that, why don't you get clear on how you want to feel and then let that be your driver? The next evolution for me was, well, before I get there, I'll just ask you, like, can you be happy? Can you be unhappy? Can you have a terrible day? Can you actually be suffering? Can you be in your own dark night and still do something good for someone that day?

No doubt.

Right, so then. And doing good for someone that day is meaningful, is purposeful. It's love. It's why we're here. It's healing. Right? So then is it really about how you feel that day? Whether you're happy or you feel successful, you feel badass or connected, whatever. The answer is like, no, that's my answer now. And I think the, you know, the question has gone from how do you want to feel? To what do you want to embody? Because what I'm clear on now is that feelings really come from the unconscious, from the subconscious. And that's cool. It's part of being human. We want to embrace those feelings. We don't want to over identify with the feelings. We're not our feelings. Your happiness or your sadness or your sorrow cannot take you out of the game of enlightenment. It's like, I'm not my misery. I'm not even my Good mood that day. I'm a soul having this experience. And. And these clouds called emotions are. They're coming and they're going. And I'm going to look at them and I'm going to love them, but I'm going to. I'm not going to be the rain cloud. I'm going to be the sky and consciousness like that. The higher frequency beyond feeling is virtue.

And.

That'S the love pouring through us. That's acceptance, that's compassion, that's forgiving. And I'm more interested in embodying that than whether I'm in a good mood or not that day. Because I know the good mood is going to come and go. But if I can be more compassionate that day for myself and everybody. And it really does have to start with myself most days, then I'm like, I'm really growing. Then I'm really getting closer to my soul. Then I'm really inching out towards enlightenment, which may be 83,000 lifetimes away, but.

Yeah, like, do we even get that in our life? Because it's not up to us. It's up to God's will. We don't decide if we're enlightened or not. Yes. What do you think about that?

I think we aspire to God's will. And I mean, you have to get to a point where maybe you get to a point where you know that you are God and then there is God, and I'm an expression of God. I'm a flame in the fire of God. I'm a ray in the sun that is God. I'm both. I mean, real intelligence, intelligence of the art is, you know, you can consider, hold both those concepts in your mind. I'm individual, I'm unique. I'm a fingerprint. I'm also part of this body of creation. I don't know is really the answer, but I'm more okay with not knowing that. I used to be like. I'd say this is, you know, when I've gone through my really, my Rocky patches. Some of the best counsel was like, danielle, you just can't know. This is some of the best stuff I got from Eckhart Tolle was just like, don't try and figure it out. You will go mad. Right. I am of no use if I'm crazy. So I'm not going to try and figure that out. I'm going to try and do my best today.

I remember it like, maybe it was like the 8th or 9th ayahuasca ceremony. I just kept asking, I Was like, mother ayahuasca. God, like, what are we doing here? What is this all about? What is the mystery of life? Can you please tell me? I promise I'll treat it with, like, sacred purpose.

And what did the grandmother tell you?

And you know what I heard back? She just said, you don't get to know. And there's kind of like this little laughter behind it. And I started laughing because I was like, of course I don't get to know. Because if I knew, there'd be no point to honor the mystery. There'd be no path for me to honor the mystery. I wouldn't actually be living life. I would be living a predetermined life based on a calculation that my mind wanted. But I wouldn't really be experiencing life. I would just be kind of going through the motions in a way. So if we don't honor the mystery, what's the point?

Yes, honor the mystery and be okay with coming in blind, like, and think about how much strength we create. We build by learning to see in the dark. Yeah, learning to be the light in the dark. That's the call. I mean, this goes back to the conversation around counterbalance and being the antidote. Like, you know what really takes ovaries and balls right now? Whatever you got, it takes. It is to be in your joy and hold the suffering. It's like, I am not going to let these times bring me down, but it means, like, I have to feel sorrow on a regular basis and I feel angry on a regular basis and keep choosing a way to be happy that day, a way to be joyful that day, a way to be generous. And that's how the light proliferates. And we all know, I mean, we know the basic adage, like, you know, fear feeds on fear, darkness feeds on more fear. The darkness wants us to be scared. This is the so called war. I mean, the war is within. If I haven't made that clear, the war is within. But we get to choose. We get to choose. And I'm going to choose love.

So going back to the map, I'm feeling this because Carrie Michelle, the mother of my child, my. My partner, who I love, she, she actually owned this book way before I even found your work. And one of the coolest things that I read in this book that totally relates to what we're talking about is when you talked about the cosmos doesn't measure sweat and hours for reward. The cosmos deals in the currency of emotion. When we feel good, goodness flows. Is that, does that still have the same Weight the same gravitas for you now. And. And how do we actually embody that? How do we be that in these crazy times?

Yes and no. In terms of weight, there's the little happiness, and then there's the great happiness. So little happiness is, I feel good about my day. I feel some carbonation. I feel some sparkliness. I feel some lightness around what's going on. I had a great conversation, or the money's flowing, or all those good things. Those are great things. And this is really one of the core tenets of, like, you know, Buddha's Metabhavna prayer. May you be happy, may you be healthy. Happiness and healthy health are awesome. You get to have those things, you know? But there's the greater happiness, which is, can you be happy and healthy no matter what? And the answer is, I am trying to. I'm trying. It's like I forget who I am and I get a little angry and I come back to center. I forget who I am, and my body gets a little inflamed, and it reminds me. I forget who I am, and I get a little. I try and prove my point, but I just keep remembering. I keep loving myself even though I'm forgetting. That's the big job. That's the big job. I accept that. I forgot. I accept that I've created this illness. I accept how I have neglected myself and so hard on myself. I'm going to love all that. I'm going to be the mother of my emotions. So I say to my anger, come, I have time for you. I'm going to say to my shame, my embarrassment, I'm going to say to my ego, come on in. I have all the time in the world. I am so loving. I am so vast. I have a support system. I've. I have. I have infinity on my side. Come on in. I can listen to you. I can take being sick one more day. Come. I can take that. I still love you. Even though you had that little outburst. It's okay. Come in. That is spiritual maturity. And sometimes there's still going to be sex. We're gonna, you know, and. And we grow up a little more every day and we parent ourselves, and we do want to care for other people and let them find their way.

You're driven. You're driven in your work. You have created so much. I think I was looking on. You have a Wikipedia page, if you didn't know. And on your Wikipedia page, there's, like 10 updates. There's 10 different bodies of work that you've Put out in the, the world. How do you balance being driven? I mean, this is, this is a selfish question. I'm being straight up.

Okay.

How do you balance being driven and being balanced in life? Because sometimes my drive as an entrepreneur, my drive to serve, my drive to create is so overpowering that I will get inflamed. I will, yeah. I will like just kind of get bloodied sometimes.

Yeah.

Is that just the part of the maturation process as well? For those of us who are driven?

Yes. I mean, I've just recently started to think, well, I'm going to retire from thinking. I need to prove anything. And you know, when all the world health stuff, stuff started going down, I thought, should I keep doing what I'm doing? What would it do to my sense of worth, my spiritual sense of worth if I just like dropped out of the game? I do not think God really cares what I am doing. I don't think, I think the universe is vast. Does the universe really care if I am living in a small apartment growing oregano or if I'm on Instagram? Talking about compassion doesn't just. It has room for me to do whatever I want, you know?

Yeah.

So I've eased up on my own striving and it actually, you know, it's a divine irony. I'm more, I wouldn't say I'm more productive. I would say I'm creating more quality stuff. And I show up, just have more love to give. I have more love to give. I have more love to give. Yeah. Yeah. And I simplified a lot.

Simplified life. Simplified business too.

Oh yeah. Like this is like the new chap. The new chapter in my story is in the last two years, I got rid of more than half of my material possessions. I moved out of a awesome house into a shitty little apartment to be by the ocean and to just like, just stop some of the noise, you know, and simplified my business. Just really focusing on my heart centered relationships, like being with the people who come for refuge.

Yeah.

And then there's some real practical things like this is not a good time to be printing and shipping things in the world. So, you know, I closed down a warehouse. I had a whole day planner system that was a, you know, really, it was a great vertical, so to speak. Two years ago I said to my, you know, I've at the time we had like three, almost 400 Desire Map facilitators. And I said, okay, everybody gather round. I know we've been doing this for about seven years and I know you've all Built businesses and you're working in corporations, you're all branded. But desire map is going away because I've grown and I don't want anything to become a gimmick and I'm going to take the risk. And I really stepped forward and said, trust me, we're going somewhere and it's better, we're evolving. And so we evolved into heart centered facilitator program and it's different content and now it works better in businesses and it also works better an individual work and it's designed for the times, designed to help us hold polarity and that's a radical simplification. I could have kept riding that wave.

Yeah.

Other things, I've even simplified relationships. I noticed that, you know, once you, once I was really felt like simplicity is a spiritual practice. I kind of work from the outside in. It's like, okay, I'm going to let go of, I don't need all those jeans, I just need a couple pairs of jeans. You know, I don't need all those wine glasses. Just a couple are fine. Then it trickled down into like relationships. It's like I don't need to like neurotically keep in touch with everybody in my life all the time. So they know that I love them. And when we connect, it's deep. There's no question whether we love each other and there's less stress and strain. And yeah, I'm going to keep up the simplicity thing. I want to get rid of even more stuff.

And yeah, I feel like when there's a shedding, the people that maybe were holding on because it gave them grace, it gave them connection, it gave them faith, hope, there's a pushback. Did you get some pushback when you shed the desire map and when you turn to more heart centered, like what was that experience for you?

I know some people, you know, the facilitators told me after they were a bit freaked out but you know, I expected some nerves. You know, no one likes to be let go. That's been part of this simplicity, the simplifying. You know, there's been phone call, like long term relationships, like, you know, work with the same fulfillment house and warehouse for eight years and you become a real client and you say we're simplifying. I think when you come from the heart people it's so much easier to accept. You know, like there's no animosity, it has nothing to do with your performance where there's so much happiness. It's just like this is a life decision. And yeah, there's more grace, and I think even, like, some inspiration there. People get inspired to do the same. Clean some house, stop buying shit, stop having shallow conversations.

Yes. Yeah. Because there's this. We all want to find out what we're doing, which is why I asked Ayahuasca, and she told me, you don't get to know. But I really do. I've been a seeker my whole life. I feel like, man, so many people in our communities, they seek the truth. And you actually have some beautiful meditations on Spotify. And I listened to one, and I loved it. And you said it was this devotion to truth seeking. You said, you're going to have to risk being disliked. Actually, it's not a risk. It's inevitable. And I think that can be really crunchy to try to put on, because there's a deal with rejection that we have to come to terms with. Will the people that followed us. I know at some point, I will definitely have to let go of Wellness Force and transition more into Josh Trent and transition into whatever my heart calls me to do. And I'm already kind of aware of that in some way. It's been six years now with podcasting. So when you made that recording and when you know in your deepest heart that, like, yeah, you're going to be disliked, it's inevitable for you not to be. How does a human being develop the courage to face that? You know, to have an unraveling and a burning of everything to the ground? How do you cultivate courage for something like that?

Well, the obvious answer is you love and accept yourself enough so that the rejection isn't a distraction, you know, but that's easier said than done. You don't have to go seeking rejection. So when you seek approval at the same time, you're in that same terrain where you're going to step on those rejection landmines. So you can't take the praise personally. And you can't take the rejection personally. Like, in a really practical way. I don't read my podcast reviews or my book reviews again to, like, give a nod to Eckhart. I was at an event with him, and he was saying that he, you know, in a very Eckhart way, he was saying that he'd read his Amazon book reviews, and the negative ones had a very sticky quality that stuck in his consciousness.

Yeah.

And I was like, dude, if Eckhart is not reading his book reviews, then I am off the hook. Like, it's not part of me being more evolved or resilient.

Yeah, you're still human.

But I do feel the more I accept and it's beyond acceptance. It's not just like, hey, sometimes I can be selfish and sometimes I can be scared. And sometimes. And all those things, it's like I actually learned to like revere those things. It's like, okay, doubt, thank you for showing up. I created that doubt. Why would I cast it out? We are creating all of those so called negative dynamics. Those are your babies. Bring them in. Don't leave them on the porch. Bring them into your heart. Parent them. The more that I do that, really, it's not that I care less what people think of me. Of course I care what people think of me. I want to create relationships and harmony and I'm here for unity. I want the love to go both ways. But I'm less offended by people's perspectives that aren't harmonious. Let's say I just go, oh, is that how you see yourself? I know that when I walk through the world and say, he is all about neck, neck, neck, I'm talking about myself. She is so this, that's me talking about me. And when you get that, boy, you don't talk shit about too many people. And you pause. I mean, there's still, of course, of course there's room for discernment where from your heart you can very clearly see someone's shadow.

Absolutely.

But just take that moment as you are being ever so discerning and wise to say, where am I? Also like that, so that you. Not so that you're bringing yourself down to anybody else's level, even though we're all on the same level, but so that you can like generate some compassion. Like, ah, she's just doing the same thing I'm doing in a different way, you know.

So how do we keep it real? How do we keep it real on the spiritual path? Because in Los Angeles, and I know that you're in Canada, but in Los Angeles, I have had some. So many in person interviews where it'll be this beautiful conversation and then the cameras go off, the lights turn off and they're a different person. I'm not going to name names, but it's like, it's so weird, the world sometimes where people present themselves to be something on a camera and then when the camera turns off, they're totally different. And it's, it's present in the spiritual world. President. It's present, I think, in all categories, in all veins of work. How do you keep it real on the spiritual path? How do you stay congruent with who you are right now with me and all of us. And then when the camera goes off, how do you maintain a connection to those being the same? And how do you decipher when others aren't?

Well, I'm looking for ways to love you. You know, I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm, I think, oh, that's really lovable. I'm listening to what you're saying and thinking, oh, I relate to that. And if I don't relate, I can find it. If I don't relate to it in current time, I can say, oh, I was that. I'm looking for ways to connect. I want to connect and I am. My hard knocks, let's say my hard knocks have made me more gentle. When you just. When you get through those things with love, you only get through those things because of love. When you can transform your pain, love your pain so much that transforms into some radiance. You become more like flexible and buoyant and pliant in a way. Like, so I'm just here, I'm just here, just here. Like this is what you get right now. And.

Yeah, there's a groundedness I feel with you that's different. Like there's not a showmanship with you. Like you're a wonderful writer. I mean the way you write. I don't know if you were formally trained. I know you never graduated college. Neither did I. Woo, woo. You do not have to graduate college to learn how to embody intelligence. But with all your writing, like your marketing, your writing, your outward Persona in the marketplace is very tactical, it's very practical. Like you're giving people. I know you're moving away from desire map and I want to give you time to talk about the collective that you have and the heart centered leadership and this group. But there, there is this, there's this quality to you that's different. It's very different than most spiritual people. And I say spiritual people because we're all spiritual people. Everything's spiritual. But have you received that before? And if so, what's a characteristic of your heart? What is it about your being that allows you to be profound in the marketplace, write great copy, put yourself out there and also still stay real. Because I think that can be changed for a lot of people, especially as more income comes.

Yeah, yeah, I know why I'm doing this. And I only speak from experience. I only speak from experience. It wasn't always that way. I mean, you know, I had lots of thoughts before and was inspired by other ideas and I could, I know how to package things but at this point I just like, hey, this is what works for me. Yeah. And I also, I don't want the karma of giving anybody advice anymore. I wish I would never have given any counsel or advice ever. So I really show up in some ways like full hearted but very empty handed. Just like, if you like it, great. And, and, and I like really stand in my perspective. Like you know, this is a passage to a new beautiful world. We need to throw things overboard. This is a call to forgive. Love is the way I'm cool with like just being out, super out about how I see the world and what I believe and you know, and then I have a great, I have a great sense of design. I've got a good eye for kerning and color and beauty really like aesthetic. Beauty really matters to me and I'm going to use it. Relationships matter to me. Tone matters to me. So I'm not, I'm going to put all that in the spiritual soup. It matters. Yeah.

So to be heart centered, what does that really mean, to be heart centered? I mean one might hear it and they'd go, oh yeah, you just live life from your heart. But this is what we fall into is this like trap of the intellectual mind where I hear you and I go on your website and I'm like, yeah, heart centered facilitator. Okay, that means that I guess I'm in my heart and then I help other people. But what does that truly mean? You know, what are the words that articulate someone leading and living from their heart?

Being heart centered, it means forming a great relationship with your soul, with your spirit. It means a dedication to morality. Really. It's a commitment to wanting to know the truth. I mean there's a whole other layer here about you can't really find the truth. It's got to happen within. But, but it's like I want to live a life that's aligned with universal truth and I'm going to make sacrifices for that. If and when it's, you know, required sacrifice. Just meaning I'm going to give up the meaningless stuff for the meaningful stuff. That's a heart centered life. Like I am for love. And I'm going to do the loving thing where my money is concerned and my body and my relationships and my politics. I'm going to make the loving choice. It's often not convenient, but it is the most meaningful, purposeful, rewarding choice to be made. Choose love in all that we do. Strategy. Start with love and it is counterculture. It is not the same as life hacking. It doesn't look at just one bottom line. It does not give a shit about your clicks. The clicks come after the love, maybe. Maybe. So that's a heart centered life, and that's a heart centered business, in my opinion.

Yeah, the clicks come and you said maybe. What do you mean by that, maybe? Well.

This is again, where we have to like, leave some room for the cosmos. It's like it's not everybody's karma or dharma to be a baller. We gotta get that. It's, you know, not everything is possible for everybody. First of all, I mean, here in this dimension, we have an uneven playing field for lots of people. All of that needs to be considered. So there's like, there's cultural inclusiveness.

You mean from an economic perspective? Is that what you're touching on?

I mean, some of us, whether it's racial or it's mental health, or it's abuse, childhood abuse, or it's economic, it's like it's different for all of us.

Yeah.

And then there's like on a soul level, some of us are here to clean up more in a lifetime than others, and so we may live with more hardship. Some of us have different gifts in different incarnations than others. It's like, you know, you can do one thing and I can do another. And that opens certain doors for each of us. We have to be at ease and accepting and at least, and ideally get to a place of like, celebrating what we got. And some people, their, their karma, their opportunity. Let me just give an oversimplified definition of karma. You know, just like opportunities to align more with your soul will have you in a loop where you might not break through professionally in this lifetime. And that's your soul trying to get you to expand in a different way. So. I don't. It is like, this is so not one size fits all. There is so not seven steps to success. You can follow the formula. This is what I have. This is the problem I have with biohacking and life hacking is like, if it's formulaic, it could be very empty at the end. So you can learn how to do things quicker. You can even extend your longevity. You can figure out how to game the algorithms and make more money and get the clicks and get the dollars and all of that. But if it's not coming from your heart, you're actually not learning it on a deep level. You're learning it on the level of ego and intellect. You're not Learning it on a soul level, on a spiritual level, where the progress is really made, where reality is really happening.

The come from. The come from is so important. Like, I have a desire to be wealthy, but not just because I want cars and houses and of course I want those things. But really what I want to do is have meaning. I think we all want meaning in our lives. And so as I go on my path to create wealth and create abundance, I'm not attached to it being a certain way. Like, look, people may not know this. This might be the first time they're seeing you. You've been on Oprah, you've been on many different platforms that are world renowned, but did that really fulfill you in a way, or did something else fulfill you? Like, what truly fulfills you in this life now compared to what you thought when you started the journey of, like, media and going on tours and all these things?

Yeah, I like being kind. That's fulfilling. I really like being in love with my partner. That's really fulfilling. He's awesome. I like that. My son still tells me a lot. I love it when someone in. Someone has read something I wrote or in heart center membership, just tells me that, you know, I did that meditation for a few months or did that one thing you told me that you did, and I didn't lose my cool in the kitchen, and I'm calmer and I'm less anxious. I love that. And the stuff that I really love is kind of beyond words. It's like, I love figuring out that I'm really getting how the mind creates this reality. I'm really getting on a deep, deep level how words construct this material dimension. That's the stuff I'm digging these days. Yeah.

And those are things that can't always be quantified.

You can't quantify that.

Those are, those are emotive things for you.

Are they emotive? What does emotive mean?

Well, like the energy in motion. You feel love when your son shares with you. It's like, you can't quantify that on a spreadsheet. Yeah, it's energy in motion inside of you.

And. And I want to get high vibrational material content to as many people as possible. So I'm also, you know, in part of my wholeness and, you know, saying to my team, like, let's go. How do we get this out there?

And.

If there's money, great. But I have different. I'm not even that motivated. And I. And I'm saying, and I'm. And I'm Assuming someone listening is saying, that's easy for you to say. Now you've been around, it looks like you made some money, you hung out with Oprah. Don't have that much money. And Oprah really didn't change my career and was still longing to be in a partnership, still had some chronic health issues, still went through a dark night and had panic attacks and ways of anxiety where I couldn't work for months. Yeah. So you can. We all going to have to burn through the goals. Like, you know, somebody just asked me last week, what do you think about goal setting? I'm just like, I think goals are ridiculous. I wrote a book about goal setting. I think for the most part goals are absurd, especially in the face of the world falling apart. But what really rocks is vision. And, you know, may all your visions be infused with loving kindness.

Just a couple more questions because I'm actually going to Houston tonight and I'm going to explore through ketamine. And I'm not an advocate for ketamine, I'm just experiencing it, so should be really profound. I have just a couple more questions for you. Like when we look at exploration of self, how have you explored yourself? Have you used plant medicines? Have you used breath work? Like, what are some of the real practical tools that Danielle has used to get deeper with herself, to really know herself more?

Divorce, motherhood, entrepreneurship. Those are the tools. I know what you're looking for. I know what you're looking for, and I'll give it to you.

But I got you. Those are tool. Those are powerful tools.

Those are powerful tools.

I'm a father. Like, whoa, whole new tool belt. Yeah.

Plant medicine is not for me at this time in my life. And I respect the grandmother. I work with plants on a very light but consistent level. Like there's a lot of essential oils in my life and I approach them as plant medicine. So that's there for me and it's actually a big part of my wellness regime. Meditation for me is central, so I meditate every day no matter what. And my kind of my evolution of meditation as I used to think, I got to try that one and that one and do that. And you know, I've been working with an energy healer particular one for five years now. We co create meditations and I just thought the more the better and the longer the better. And that's actually not better. What's best been best for me is one practice, ideally before the sun comes up, for no less than 20, no more than 20 minutes, no more than 20 minutes. Because my observation is if I go beyond 20 minutes, I start to get sort of into this astral place, this soupy, unconscious place. Just like, don't tarry there. Just stay high. After 20 minutes, I move into prayer. That's a practice for me. I eat what I would consider, I would call good, clean eating. I'm a lazy vegan.

What is that?

Well, like, if you made me some chocolate cake, I'm there. I'm not. If I go to your house. If I go to your house, and I know that you have worked so hard, and I'm going to eat what you serve me, because that's the call. Yeah. Those are my practices. Meditation. I work. I work in alignment with the planets. So when it's dark of the moon, two days before a new moon, and things feel shadowy and heavy and crunchy, then I look at my heavy, crunchy stuff and I let it go. Yeah. When it's a new moon, I kick off my projects. I don't launch during certain times. I don't launch during Mercury retrograde. So that's a big part of my practice.

Has astrology really guided you? How deep into astrology do you have as a guidepost for your work, for your life?

Not that deep. I just go with the big kind of pillars of what's happening in the sky. I know what's retrograde, but I don't need to look under the hood too deeply and get distracted by that. I mean, my greatest practice really has been simplifying. I no longer. Let me just check myself, see if it's true. Yep, it's pretty much true. I am currently not reading any spiritual material. So I stopped ingesting because I was observing that even though I was, you know, like, deep study and deep esoteric stuff and a course in miracles and hermetic philosophy and the cabal, all of it, it was actually making me really anxious.

Why was that? Why was it making you anxious?

Because the way I am designed, and maybe I'm. I gotta rise above this, and that's the goal. But the way I'm designed, you can give me any spiritual teaching, and I will find a way to punish myself with it. So I'll find a way that I am not good enough with it. This goes back to, like, my relationship with God changing, where I used to really just see a punitive figure, you know, and now I'm just like, you know what? I don't need to know more about sacred sexuality or chakras or my meridian system, or I just do not need to know any more of that, because I will use that against myself. And I also don't need more voices in my head. I have to follow my heart. I have. This is between me and God, not someone else's interpretation of God. And I am more loving as a result. I am more calm. I have more equanimity as a result. And now when I do turn to something, because of course, you know, I'm still. There's people I really. I respect so deeply, you know, I want to know. I want to know what they've got to say.

Who do you love right now? Who are a few of those that you're just really into?

I think Adyashanti is one of the greatest living teachers. And I think for me, I resonate with his teachings because it's. It's high truth delivered with love. And his teaching is very, very accessible and practical. It's just like compassion steeped into everything. And he's also inviting you to wake up. You know, Karishnamurti is always going to be my philosopher boyfriend. Muji. M O O J I Muji. Muji is love.

Muji.

He is so beautiful and juicy.

I'm just, like, praying for his health all the time, you know, when I receive messages from him and I'm like, I just. I'm so grateful to watch his videos and to receive what he's giving. And I'm like, why does he carry so much physically, I wonder? It's not a judgment. It's more like, I wish he could be. I. I wish him more lightness, you know, in his physicality. He's. Yeah, he's fairly large. I mean, I don't know his blood work, you know, but that's what I feel when I.

He's just a little tubby. I don't. We don't. But we don't know if he's actually, like, dealing with something, do we? Is that. Is that what he said?

I think he. He had a video once and he said he was like, pre diabetes or diabetes, something like that.

I don't know.

Maybe, yeah, but it. But it goes for any teacher. Maybe he likes his chocolate cake. But the message that we get is sometimes so potent that it, like, really the messenger was almost just the vessel to give it to us. So I'm not focusing on his physicality. It's just me having my human experience. I'm like, oh, Muji, like, let's go walk together. That's what I feel when I listen to Mooji. But I hear you. He's so Divine in the way that he shares. And I really thank you for sharing all these resources. Thank you for this beautiful conversation. And please share where people can, can go learn about this, this heart centered. It's wellnessforce.com heart centered. It's a place where people can go. And you gave a really special way for my community to learn about you.

Yeah, well, there's two arms to this. So there's a heart centered membership. So that's where I work with individuals. So we're a community. We meet every other week and it gets really real. And there's a perspective piece of meditations every month. And really the membership is about refuge and practice. Then there's the Heart Centered Facilitator program. This is where we've created content. I've worked with four master level certified integral coaches, a handful of psychologists and an energy worker and 10 years of experience. We have this curriculum that coaches and facilitators and team leaders can use to have conversations or do workshops around shadow work and holding polarization. So this is now, I mean, this is being used at like large accounting firms and in yoga classes and you send some material and part of that is we bring you into the fold where you're part of our business circle. So you're meeting every month with my team and we're throwing down on like, these are the trends we're seeing. And so we're talking about everything from how to be a better facilitator, better engaged listener. And you know what we're seeing happen with censorship and algorithms because you need to know both if you're going to really get your work out into the world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much. It's been a joy. I could definitely talk to you for longer, but I have to get on the road and we've had such a great, great space today. So as we say goodbye, I'm just reflecting on this incredible career that you've had. And by the way, there's a little part of me that's like, I'm so stoked that you and I both didn't go the traditional path. We didn't get like the Masters, we didn't do the collegiate thing, but yet there's a, there's a level of service and authenticity with you and that I strive to have in my work as well. That it just makes me have a little bit of joy. It's like a little seed of joy where I'm like, oh, it's pretty cool that I took a different path and I actually serve as good or Better in some ways than people that took that traditional path. So I just. I had to plant that seed in your garden right now.

Oh, not. Not going to university is one of the wisest things I ever did.

Yeah, we're. I mean, when Nova's old enough, we are not sending him on the traditional path. We're going to get some kind of homeschool, private school, something, because that's a whole nother podcast. But as. As we say goodbye, like the road you've walked to get here, the dark nights of the soul that you've shared, and if people want to search your name online, there's tremendous interviews that you've done. One of my favorite was Jeff from Commune. Powerful conversation as we say goodbye at this intersection that we talked about in the beginning of our podcast, where humanity's awakening and then there's other intersection that we're at, where we're spiritual beings having a human experience. How do you define wellness? You know, what does it mean to you to live life well? What is wellness?

Wellness is the joy of accepting it all and having a very clear intention to be the love.

Feels good to let that land for a second. You're welcome. And thank you for sharing time with us and. And space and energy and. So people can go on your Instagram, they can go all over the place, but if they wanted to go to one place, where's the place that you would meet them? Online. Online, that is.

Danielleport.com and subscribe to my stuff because that's where we can be the closest and because. Well, because. Censorship.

Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Well, thank you for being a warrior. And I don't mean the violent one. I mean the loving one. So until I see you again, until Danielle and I see you guys again, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon. It.