Dark Night of The Soul: How To Face Your Darkness To Find Your Light | Jenny Dinovi

It was really like shaking hands with the devil. It feels like someone else is taking over your body and playing you. So I was gone for three months. I have no memory at all from what I've been doing. I had been traveling to weird places, going to people I would never go to otherwise. It's like a crossroad at the end of a road. And then you get a choice. Do you want to really get away from here or do you want to go to the light?

When I'm in the dark. When we're in the dark, it is so important to know that it is temporary. Because just that awareness alone that the darkness can be and is temporary allows one to not get stuck.

The best work that you could ever do is to work on your joy and your presence in your own journey. Unbecome everything that you're actually not. Remove mask after mask after mask until you feel like, ah, this is pure me. It is Iron Maiden. It is hardcore if you choose to go in it. But then there's another side to it.

You had to touch a very deep, dark place in order to now bring light.

I believe that I choose this life before I came here. I choose to have that rough childhood. I choose every part of this journey. Even when I was suicidal, tried to kill my myself. I had no thought in the world that poor me. No, no, no, no, no. You choose this. What are you going to do about it?

What? What was going on that even made you consider leaving a deep psychosis? So then what made you stay? Hey, it's Josh. Before we get into this episode, I have a small yet powerful favor to ask of you. The community has thousands lately and the bigger the tribe, the bigger names of world class guests we can have on this podcast that I can bring to you from my heart, from my curiosity so you can have more wellness and wisdom in your life. Would you please be so kind as to hit the subscribe button wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. It'll allow us to rise naturally in the algorithms based on your 2 second act of generosity by you just tapping that little subscribe button wherever you're viewing or hearing this episode. Thank you so much. It means the world to me and our entire team team here at Wellness and Wisdom. Now enjoy the podcast. What made you say yes to want to come on the podcast?

No, it was something with your vibe. Like, I. I can really feel you. Like it feels like I already know.

You past life something.

I thought it was that, but then I listened to one of your podcasts. And I realized that you're Taurus. So it could be that, okay, vibing.

A connection to a world that maybe we've been or some kind of a pattern, some like almost universal human experience that we're just living out now.

Yeah, yeah. You know, there's just some people that you can feel like, no, I already know you.

It's been quite interesting to absorb what it is you're putting out in the world. Now I have my own projection and my own experience of, of who you are and what you do. But for the audience, you know, for wellness and wisdom globally and especially for the members in the Liberated life tribe who really, Jenny, we're just here to free ourselves from the shackles and the bullshit that we've been fed that completely is not true. I wonder from your own vantage point, you know, especially now, how long have you been in the podcast and coaching world?

Well, I've been in the coaching world for a few years because I've been a yoga teacher for a few years and that has always been like, I' always had people coming to me with their questions in spirituality and in, you know, life in, in general and in feminine energy and in that kind of sense. And then I worked as a social media manager. So in that job I had a lot of meetings and I realized on that job that, oh my God, this is not, this is not it. Because I realized that even if I'm talking to a big about apps manager and you know, we're in it, then suddenly if I talk to a man, he's 50 years old and he's like, suddenly he started to talk about life. Because that is what I bring out of people. I, I have a tendency to, to make people feel very safe quickly to talk about their life.

How do you describe what you do in the world? I'm sure it changes from time to time, but if people are just coming across your work, how do you describe that?

I just started a few years ago with TikTok in my mother language. I think it's three years ago and I just had a feeling like maybe I should speak. You know, I tried it and I was lucky because TikTok is good in that way because I got like a lot of views on my third video or something and then, you know, the self confidence is going up, like this is probably my thing. Then I had a coach myself is from Australia and he was like, language.

Maybe switching and so what is it though? If people are wondering like, okay, who is Jenny? What does she do? How exactly do you help people I.

Would say that it's transformation, because that is really what I'm doing. I'm putting out words that could potentially make a transformation for someone personally.

And do you feel like words can be spells?

Absolutely.

How so? They are, just because they are. But what about words? Actually, one thing that's always fascinating me is my body is mainly water. And so if you look at how the planets affect the Earth, where the tides of the ocean are literally pulled by the magnetic force of the moon and the planet, well, how could you argue that? There's some very celestial, crazy things going on when it comes to the way that we experience life as humans. I think it's quite fascinating that science and spirituality have been at war, but they're actually wanting the same answer. They're just getting it from different places. What do you make of that?

I don't know why it's a war. Why is it a war anywhere? You know, we all. We are all going towards the same goal.

This is really interesting with you. There's lots of pausing. Do you tend to fill up the space you're in? Is that normally how you have conversations where you'll be in the space and you'll just be welcoming whatever's in the space?

I'm not afraid of silence. I think it's a lot of power in silence, too. You know, I went to a course in public speaking, and there's a thing called pregnant pause, and you actually do that as a technique. So you keep on speaking, and then you're like, just to leave people in that space and then continue talking.

Yeah, I've heard it described as the power of the pause as well, or the pregnancy and pause is great. I wonder what you feel is pregnant in our space right now of spiritual growth. It seems to be like, there's a lot of people talking really fast all the time and trying to get out the most information. But one thing that I really enjoyed about your content, specifically something that we're going to link in this podcast, it was sent to me by a friend. And in this clip, you were talking about spirituality, and you said, you know, spirituality. People think it's all love and light, but that's not the case. Spirituality is Iron Fucking Maiden, which I. Which was really like, the genesis of me reaching out to you and connecting with you. And I think if you can go into the Iron Maiden aspect of spirituality a little bit, that may be helpful to answer what you believe is pregnant in the pause right now on Earth. In spirituality.

Yeah, like, it. It is Iron Maiden. It is hardcore if you choose to go in it. But then there's another side to it. I know it was on the news in the country where I come from, Sweden, and they said that it's so dangerous to go into spirituality, you know, because it can be very heavy if you get stuck in that darkness. So I don't think it's meant for you to be stuck there. I think it's meant for you to spiral up to joy a lot. So if you're on your healing journey, if you're on your spiritual, spiritual journey and you're not having moments of pure joy, I would say that you're not doing it right.

And so maybe it comes to just people not even knowing that they don't know. There's an adage that we had spoken on the podcast a while back, it was from a guest named Connor Beaton. And he said that we're all praying to the growth God. We're all praying to the growth God. And we get addicted, literally addicted to spiritual growth because it's actually a way to rewound ourselves and keep us stuck. Like you said in the spiral. So we're stuck in contraction. What do you think with all the people that come to you and the people that resonate with everything you're putting out in the world, what is it that they don't see that maybe they don't even know? They don't know about themselves that blocks them from expansion? It's pretty clear that contraction is happening. Like we all feel that. But what do you find traditionally that blocks people from expanding from feeling that joy?

Their subconscious mind. So how they are conditioned to believe anything. So you grow up and you listen, listen to teachers, you listen to friends, you listen to parents, you listen to religious beliefs, everything. And then that's how you are programmed. So that is what we want to really change. And for me it's been the biggest help for me in that has been.

Mirror work and how. So what does mirror work look like for you?

So you look yourself in the mirror and you, you tell yourself things. So I have a big list of things that I'm telling myself in the mirror every day.

Would you tell yourself this morning?

Oh, it's the same every day. Two pages.

Oh, two pages. Okay, give us, give us like a cheat. What is one, what is one thing that you tell yourself every day?

I understand that. I am proud of myself for no longer having any self sabotaging behaviors. I understand that. I am proud of myself for loving myself more every day. And you know, shit like this. If you say that and you look yourself straight into the eyes. It said that the soul is behind the eyes, you know, but you also connect to an inner part of you, that inner child you. And when you get that connection, like a really strong connection to that inner part of you, others start to get an even deeper connection with you.

Why do you think that is? Because they feel the vibration of what you're putting out?

Yes. I have been doing this for one year now, every day. And there's a huge difference in. In my relationships, but definitely in the relationship with myself.

You know, I flashback to time I had in just absolute suffering, complete suffering of like, my mom has manic bipolar, my dad is not around. I'm dealing with pornography addiction, I'm dealing with binge eating. It's what led me to be a personal trainer. I was a fitness professional for 10 years, and then I kind of scrambled around and fell on my face for a while and then found the work that I'm in now, which is really speaking truth into the world. But truth is subjective and truth is objective. I'm sure you play around with this concept quite a bit. Right? Like your truth versus my truth, which one's actually true? Right. Like, which truth is actually the truth? And is that really always open to interpretation from the eye of the beholder, I wonder, from your own experience and you shared with me previously in messages. We've been trading messages for a while on Instagram that your mom battled with alcoholism for quite some time. I think it was 20 or 30 years. How did you use that and how do you still use that, really, that suffering? There's a lot of suffering there. I think that people can connect with this. How did you use that, alcoholism, through the vehicle of your mom to fuel your own spiritual growth, to allow you to find your own truth?

Yes. You know, my mom was a alcoholic. Like, alcoholic. Oh, my God, we are talking like a bag in box a day. So I had never met my mom sober, not one day in my whole life. And there was one moment when her best friend passed away and her best friend calls me the day before on the hospital just to tell me that, Jenny, just so you know, you've never met your mom. And just her saying that made me even more sure because I've known since I was a child that I'm going to fix my mom. I know, like, I've been knowing since I was 10 or something that I'm going to travel the world and I'm going to meet people who has keys to help me fix my Mom, I'm going to do it. I had a feeling that I can't. I can't go on and, you know, leave her here and build my own family in another country. Like, I can't. And now after, I can see why, because this. I never. I had no thought when I was helping her, like, this is going to help me. Not a thought in the world of that at all. I was just like, I'm going to help her, and now I'm going to do it. Like, there's. She has no chance to even say no now. Now I was. So, yeah, I had decided that I'm gonna do this. And, yeah, it took like, four weeks, and now she's two years sober. But the cool thing is that, you know, you've heard people say that it's in generations, and if one generation heals, another generation heals. But I never fully understood that until that moment, because that moment when she got sober was the same moment that I stopped totally to have this, you know, urge that you feel on a Friday night, like, should I go out and have a glass of wine or something. That. That was totally gone. All gone. Haven't felt it since.

So it sounds to me like there was this identification where you made yourself your mom's healer. But how did you actually re. Identify yourself not as her healer, but just as Jenny, the soul?

Yes. Of course she didn't say yes. That's another thing. You know, this is going around like, you can't help anyone who's saying no to help. Of course you can. Of course you can. But it's going to take everything that you've got. It took everything that I had in me to do that, even if she said no. And I knew that she didn't want any rehab or anything like that. I know that if. If she's going to do it, it's going to be with me.

But where did that knowing come from? Because again, I go back to the question because I really want to know. I'm genuinely curious. How did you re. Identify yourself? Not as her healer, but. But just as you, the soul.

With my inner child. My inner child knew that this is possible. And that's another thing. With your subconscious mind that that inner child of you has. No doubt.

The inner child work is fascinating to me because I think right now, especially if you look in politics, and I don't know how it is in Sweden, I'm sure it's the same, but in America, we just have, like, a bunch of wounded children walking around in adult bodies. Have you Seen this? Do you feel this? It's like so many of the buildings that are built downtown in every major city, they're built by young boys and adult bodies just trying to prove their worth to their father. It's wild. Now, by the way, it's not all of them. I'm sure there's people with genuine intention, with a clear connection to their heart, with a clear connection to their inner child that build buildings and build bridges just because it's cool, because it's fun, they enjoy it. But I wonder how you feel this, because, look, when I go on your Instagram. And by the way, I don't do TikTok because it's owned by Chinese communist regime. No, no judgment that you're on there. I know you're spreading love, you're helping people. We just haven't tackled TikTok as a brand yet. So we're not. We're not on TikTok. But, you know, all these people, I mean, thousands and thousands and thousands of comments, and I'm sure there's a through line, there's got to be a common thread as to the majority of what people are feeling out there in the world. Earlier you talked about the power and the pregnant pause, and I'll go back to this question again. What do you feel collectively in our earth, in our world is wanting to be birthed through this pregnant pause. In other words, what's our biggest malady that's wanting to be healed? Right now, it's a very myopic question, but I think it'll lead to other things.

Yeah, I think it's the feminine energy. So the world has been on masculine energy for so long, and especially sales business. I was just in sales business, and I had a lot of sales courses here and there. And NEPQ is big right now, and that is selling from your feminine energy. So the world is now turning from old way of sales business into new way of sales business. And the old way was the masculine, and the new way is the feminine. So if you imagine you go into a jeans store and you're gonna buy something and you have this one, you know, jumping on you, trying to sell you a pair of jeans, and you're just like, whoa, what's going on? And then you have this one who's chill, laid back, and just, you know, I'm here if you need me. That is what I think is happening with the world right now. Because sales business is in everything. It's in dating, it's in social media, it's in all workspaces. It's everywhere. And if that space is turning from masculine to feminine, so is the energy, so is the. You know, I'm always speaking quite slow, and many are, you know, surprised that it's even working because of our attention span and all of that, but it's working because it's turning.

And it's turning. You mean the collective lens, like the collective energy of how things get done is moving to a more integrated, really integrated masculine and feminine. Because the energy exists in you, right? Like, when you do something that's finite, you're. You're exercising your masculine power. And then when I. It's in my logo for the business. It's on the screen right now, literally. It's a triangle. It's on the mic flag right here. The upside down triangle is water. So water and feminine energy is something that for my whole life has just perplexed me. I'm like, really? You do it that way? Because I've always approached things from, like, this masculine, finite, almost square or circular perspective. And I find it really fascinating that I think what you're saying is true, and I think there's some great truth in that. But I think it also has a shadow because something you and I have chatted about, and I know that this will be polarizing, but we get to go for it because it's fun. And that is there's a dark side of feminine energy, just like there's a dark side of masculine energy if it's not integrated. And that's key. It has to be integrated properly with a space of love and consciousness. Feminism, really, it wants something, but it's exercising itself in a way on planet Earth right now that's actually doing the opposite of what it wants. The feminist movement, feminism, you had told me that on many of your coaching calls that women ask you, how do I get more into my feminine energy? How do I be in that flow and that understanding of what it is to be feminine? And you said, well, you have to be able to open yourself up to speaking to a man about how to get support. I do it maybe one or two times a day. I thought that was really fascinating because many of the women you work with, they immediately would say, well, how do you do that? I don't think I can do that. I think that's where we're at right now in the evolution of consciousness, where there actually is no war, there is no man versus woman, there is no patriarchy versus feminism. It's all just totalitarian regime that keeps people bifurcated and Divided. I wonder if you could speak to that. Because the slowness in which you communicate and the way in which you're serving in the world, it's attracting these women to you that themselves are paradoxically behaving in the opposite way. That's going to bring them the very thing they want.

Yes, I'm always saying that I'm not a feminist because I love women too much, and it's an unpopular opinion, but you can't be fully awake and still call yourself a feminist. There's just no way. Because. And feminism wants to say that they are aiming for equality, but still it is a movement that is pointing towards that it's a difference between people, that it's men and women. And we need to get to a space where we become one. And this is in everything. This is in countries. America, Sweden, Europe, country, my country. No, Josh, we're on a planet. We're here together. We are one. And that is what we all need to realize. We all need to come together as one. We don't even need men's circles, women's circles. No, we need to get together as one.

It makes me think of the Beatles song where he's like, come together right now. Beatles had it right. Hippies had it right. There's so many platitudes in our world. Are you familiar with this term, platitude? It's like love is all there is. You know, little squares on social media. And we all hear these things, and I think a part of us knows they're true. But I want to go back to this feminism piece because for a long time, I was so triggered and so hurt by the dark side of feminism, and it's because I didn't have boundaries in my previous relationships that I was then projecting onto my current partner, because I didn't have essentially the gusto or the personal awareness to be able to honor my boundaries. With women in my 20s and even in my early 30s, it wasn't until I met Keri Michelle, where it was like a course in boundaries. You know, Marianne Williamson has a course in miracles. Well, when a man gets with the correct woman for his soul and vice versa, it's a course in boundaries, because we get to look at all the ways in which we've abandoned ourselves, and we haven't actually laid down our boundaries and enforced them with our soul's expression. Have you experienced this? And how do you feel that boundaries are actually broken? Boundaries are fueling the epidemic of disconnection with feminism and with feminist ideology.

Can you explain that? More with like, how that feels for you.

It's like in my past, there would be things that I wasn't okay with that I would say yes to because I didn't love myself enough or I didn't have enough personal strength to be able to say no, to be able to say that I'm worthy. And so therefore, this is a boundary. And so just like any energy or anything finance or any exchange of energy, things stack up, resentment stacks up, and then it comes out sideways to where then somebody I really care about, they're getting a lot of my old energy from my life because I didn't have the courage or the awareness to actually enforce those boundaries. I get the sense that a lot of women who have been deeply hurt and deeply wounded by men are using feminism and the feminist ideology as an unconscious way to get back at men. Just like men unconsciously get back at women because of the stress that they've been through and the pain they've been through. And so my question with that as a pre frame is how do you think that these broken boundaries are actually fueling feminism and fueling the feminist ideology?

Yeah, like, of course I am aware of that. It is horrible things happening to women because of men in the world. We can't deny that that is true. But I do believe, like, I'm a big believer that what feminism wants would manifest and we would actually see that come true if we would remove feminism. Because we, one, need to come together as one, but we also need, we need the healthy, inspiring, good hearted, lion kind of men to rise and help us in this. And if we look at a tiny scale, and if we look at a big scale, it doesn't really matter. It's the same thing. So if I'm too much in my masculine energy and I'm saying, like, I don't need your help, I can do this on my own. I don't need you. That is the energy of feminism. We can do this. Then we're also telling those men that we would need help from, that we can do this on our own.

Which then further perpetuates the wound. And this is like, I get the pain, I feel the pain, I understand it. And like I said, I've, I've come to terms and come to peace with it. This podcast is therapy. I don't know if yours is the same way. Do you ever feel like you get therapy from your own podcast and from the own. The content that you put out, it's like your therapy as well?

Oh, yeah, yeah. My podcast is Everything. It's. Instead of calling someone nowadays, I'm just like, I need to record exactly.

I feel I have so many people. Neuroscientists, behavioral psychologists, emotional intelligence relationship specialists. And I'm just so grateful. I'm like, truly grateful to be able to share, because I think when you talk about the lion heart of a man, if you look at lions in nature, or even if you look at Spartan warriors, they weren't all 100% masculine energy all the time. They know how to play, they know how to open their heart, they know how to read energy, and they know how to kill. I heard someone say, you know, a man, a real man who's integrated could murder and hold his children in the same day. And that's a real man if called forth to do so. Of course, I would never want to do that or welcome that in my life. But I think that when it comes to being a man, and I'll speak as a man, protecting and providing and having the switching capacity, Jenny, to feel our emotions, to understand our woman, and to read the space, it's daunting, y'. All. It's a lot for us because we are really wired on a physiological surface to hunt, protect, and provide. But then we are being called forth right now on Earth. And this is what I think everybody can feel. A truly integrated masculine man, like a lion, is able to play, have joy, touch his feminine energy, be able to read the space, be able to feel the space, and be able to make millions of dollars, be able to provide for his family. I wonder how you see that, that aspect being called forth in men right now. The ability to be both, the ability to do both, and to do it wholeheartedly, not because we should, but because that's what's being called forth right now. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yes. I think it's, you know, it's very popular right now. Go into your feminine or masculine energy. And the thing is that it's reverse engineering. So if you want to step into your feminine, you need to practice your healthy masculine energy. So the more I practice, I really practiced, like, military, practiced my masculine energy for six months. And I just got more and more comments on my feminine energy. And I was like, what's going on? I'm practicing my masculine. Can't you see that? But that's the. It's the other way around. So when you master one part, then you're able to fully thrive the other, and then you go to the other, and that's how it works. But you. You do want to reach the middle? Like you're saying, it's. It's so nice when, when you can feel like, ah, I'm pushing, I'm providing, but I can still, you know, put the phone down and. And be with, you know, your woman and in feelings and in deep conversations for hours and to be able to be both. That's everything.

It really is everything, especially when you have children. So I don't know if you want to have children, Children in your future at some point in your life.

I got that question the other day, and I answered that. For me, being a mom, it's. It's so wide and huge that I'm also like, if. If me being a mom is. Is five dogs, I'm good too. You know, I'm really an animal. Do believe that I'm here to. To become a. A mom to a child too. It's just that. Yeah, I haven't found that lion yet.

What? Being a human. You are a human, right? You're not from outer space.

Get that question a lot, too.

Okay. When. When. As a human and you know, my curiosity sparks because I don't know what it's like to be a woman. And any man who says he knows exactly what it's like to be a woman is either kind of subscribing to some crazy ideologue belief set or they're just insane. But I think curiosity about the. The challenges that women go through is really interesting for me because we had Teal Swan on the podcast and she had brought up this topic about women tend to not feel as safe as men. Now that's a generalization. But women tend to not feel as safe as men because men have more type 2 muscle fibers. Men are just different beings physiologically. Right. So how have you dealt with that aspect in your life to truly feel safe? Because my question comes from safety is our own responsibility. It is not about my woman or my man or my partner doing all their work to make me feel safe. Yes, it's more helpful. It's totally more helpful when our partner does their work because then it makes the container so much more fun, so much more enjoyable. But how have you dealt with that personally, what Teal was talking about, where women tend to. Not always, but tend to feel less safe than men.

That's what I mean. As women, we put ourselves in this victimhood energy all the time. Poor us. We are weak. No, no, turn it around. Turn the words around when I'm walking like it's not happening a lot because I'm not Out late at night. But when I was a year ago, when I was at, like, a club or walking home late, you know, from. From anywhere, I'm having the highest heels you can ever imagine in Stockholm, and I'm having big headphones on, and I'm listening to hard rock music, and I don't care. Like, do I have a smaller body than a man? Yes. Do I have a stronger spirit? Probably.

How so? What do you mean by that?

I mean that just because a man is stronger when it comes to muscles doesn't mean anything when I meet him. If I'm stronger in my spirit, I'm stronger.

Therefore, you're more safe.

Yeah, I am just as safe in my body as I decide that I am.

Well, somebody just turned off the podcast and now somebody just shared it. So there's two types of people that resonate with what you're sharing. The victim vibration is really alluring. I've been in that myself, by the way. I don't think it's gender specific. I think victim vibration occurs to all of us because it's so sexy and so alluring to come from this place of disempowerment. And look, I think that it does fuel us at times because sometimes feeling like a victim puts you in ultimate despair, and despair leads you to anger. If you look at the Hawkins ladder of emotional frequency, so anger is more powerful than despair. But then above anger is acceptance, and then above acceptance is inspired action, and above inspired action is actually empowerment and love. So we get put in these places by. I guess the only nomenclature I could use is spirit or God or creator. Creator puts us in these situations of temporary disempowerment, temporary victimhood, which fuels us, if we're willing, right? We have to be able to buy the ticket and take the ride. We have to be able to actually go on the journey. Have you ever had a time in your life where you felt complete disempowerment, where you yourself were stuck in that victim vibration? And if so, what was the way you got out?

No, I don't think I have. Honestly, I can't. I can't remember any time in my life when I was like. Even when I was suicidal, tried to kill myself, I had no thought in the world that. Poor me. No, no, no, no, no. I can't like victimhood, to me, it's been like something that I've been looking at others having. Like, holy shit, I don't want that. I don't that.

Well, then how would you describe. And, you know, I asked this with Grace, because it's a topic that's very. Deserves respect for anybody that's suffering with suicidal ideation or suicidal thoughts. Like, it's a very tender subject, but when you were there, and I didn't know this about you, so. So please share. You know, be of service to. To somebody who's maybe going through that right now. How is suicidal ideation not victim vibration? How is it not, you know, to.

Me, I'm a yoga teacher, so I believe that I choose this life before I came here, and that means that I choose this family. I choose to have that rough childhood. I choose every part of this journey. I choose those toxic exes, you know, so that is also a reason why I'm not going to victimhood, because I'm always in, like, yeah, you choose this. What are you going to do about it? You know? But when it comes to suicide, like, before I came there, I was really like, that's a little bit ego to just, you know, disappear and not tell anyone anything. But when you're there, you're just like, if I don't want to be here, that must be okay. And if I go, I go.

So then what made you stay?

My dog.

I don't think I've ever heard an answer like that in over 600 episodes on a podcast. So your dog made you stay? How so?

In my last attempt, I was like, no, I can't. I can't leave him here. You know? Yeah.

What transpired in your life to get you to that point? Like, what. What was going on that even made you consider leaving?

A deep psychosis. So I was gone for three months. Three months. I have no, like, no memory at all from what I've been doing. So I had been traveling to weird places, going to, like, people I would never go to otherwise. I been writing. So, you know, I woke up after this psychosis and just like, whoa, what was that? That was really like meeting the devil. If you haven't been in a deep depression and that kind of psych, like, when it turns over to psychosis, it was really like shaking hands with the devil. And, yeah, I was suicidal in that. So a part of me is even like, was that even me? Because in a psychosis, you feel someone else is. Like in the Sims game, you know, it feels like someone else is taking over your body and playing you.

So how did you come into this point and not take the devil with you?

It was like a crossroad. And I believe that anyone has been in a deep depression or psychosis and knows what I'M talking about. It's like a crossroad at the end of a road. And then you get a choice. Do you want to really get away from here or do you want to go to the light? But if you go to the light, it's kind of like you make a promise down there that if I choose the light now, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna run somewhere and, you know, success wise and everything, like personal development, I'm gonna. Yeah, if I run that way, I'm gonna run that way.

And where are you running to? What is that way?

That's a good question. But it's like a slingshot. So if you go that far down, and that's very interesting to know with depression that if you go that far down, it's also going to turn all the way around up. So, yeah, I'm on that now. The slingshot back.

I've mentioned this a few times on the podcast and it was brought to me by Paul Check, who's a mentor and a friend. And he was talking about Jung's work, where Jung talks about for the human, you can only have the branches reach heaven if the roots touch hell. And I think that's really timeless wisdom because there is no way that I could be able to be slingshotted. It's funny, just yesterday I was being interviewed and I gave the analogy of my life as a bow and arrow, you know, being pulled way back. And the further back the bow is pulled when you finally release shoots that much further. And I think it's really some kind of karmic or dharmic loop that allows people to want to be shot, to not go the path of leaving the world, to actually be here and contribute. But I haven't found this to be true that anybody. That's a real deep service and maybe they're out there, y'. All. So if they are like, you know, link it in our website or post on social. If I'm wrong, I just get the sense that anyone who's doing any great work or healing work in the world, they themselves have in some way had to come to terms with their own mortality, with their own death. And maybe it's a death of self, maybe it's a death of the body, the physical body. But it seems like that's a mirror of your story. Like you had to touch a very deep, dark place in order to now bring light. And unfortunately, there's so many people that haven't touched that dark space, but they're still masquerading as Light.

Yeah. I really think that it's a lot of benefits of going that deep. Even if it was the worst thing that I've ever done. Of course. Oh, my God. I can't even describ it, but I'm very, very thankful for it. It gave me everything. The darkness.

There's a difference between. I wonder how you feel the difference between being woke and being awakened.

Yeah, like, woke to me is just you have your eyes open, but being awake is something totally different. And we have many humans asleep on this planet, that's for sure. We can't push others to awakenings, but we can inspire by our own. So that's why spirituality is even important. And personal development in. Or personal development in spirituality is important because when you shine your own awakening, you are also awakening others. That is why it's so important, you know, that you shine your light. That I shine my light. And apparently God gave us the microphone and the ability to be able to impact millions of people with our voice. It's a quote somewhere saying, like, if God gave you the voice as a tool, then use it.

And no shame or judgment if you don't. Because it's so mysterious. Jenny. Like, just because somebody is gifted with a talent does not mean that they should be in shame if they don't use it. I think of how many. If you go into, like a graveyard and you look at all the tombstones, there's probably trillions of dollars, trillions of dollars of unused potential in that graveyard. People that maybe had the same or more talent than you and I, but they just didn't use it. And the part of that that really it's a fuel source for me in my life, gosh, if I have anything that's gifted to me from God and I'm aware of it, just the knowing of that propels me to give it it. The knowing of that propels me to share it. And the part that I think is painful is when I look back on my life and I. I see that there was always that in me. It just took so much work to take off layer by layer of conditioned story so that I could shine, so that I could actually shine and be Josh. It's like the river Leith in the ancient Greek mythology where we drink from this river of forgetfulness and we forget who we are on purpose to then live out this human construct and make sense and meaning of it all so we can actually be the unique soul we are. And if you're a yoga teacher, like you said, and you believe that we choose our Parents, why do you think you chose to incarnate at this specific time? There's something very unique about this time. You didn't choose to incarnate in 1930. Okay. Or like 1970. You chose to incarnate now. So what is that for you?

Yeah, first you said something very important there and also for the listeners like if someone wants to do what you are doing or what I am doing. I think both you and me needed to let go a lot to do what we do today. So that's kind of a main key to unbecome everything that you're actually not remove mask after mask after mask until you feel like, ah, ah. This is, this is pure me.

You know, the mask gets heavy. I think that's why people walk around like this on their phone. Right. Because the mask is pulling them down into their phone. The phone. If you're not careful, all it does is gather unconscious evidence that the mask you're wearing is real. So the more you can actually vibrationally be attracted and allow yourself to go towards content like this, where we're talking about things that at first visual or audio might be a little scary, might be a little, you might be like, whoa, they're weird. I welcome that. I welcome that weirdness because I want to, I want a straight neck. I don't want to text neck. I want to be good in my body. I want to feel good with my posture so we can flip it back on me. What is woke versus awakened? I feel like when someone is truly awakened, the come from or the intention of why they're doing what they're doing feels fundamentally different than the come from of someone who is woke. So just because you have woken up doesn't mean that you're aware, truly aware of what is going on. And I would describe the difference between woke and awakened is that woke is seasoned with self righteousness. When someone is woke, they are self righteous about what they and everyone else should do. When someone is truly awakened, they're just being at peace with who they actually are and what's truly around them. And they're doing their best to navigate it and share from an authentic, vulnerable, loving place. That's awakening. But woke is so different because we have these parents that woke. Parents that are. I mean it just, it crushes my heart to even feel it. It's so sad. Like they, they're allowing their young 10 year old boy to castrate himself because he thinks he's a woman. It's just such, it's the darkness you probably felt when you were considering leaving or, or staying on Earth. It's that same same deep, dark energy that is masquerading as woke ideology, where these parents with their supposed helping hand are scarring their children for life. And this isn't a conversation specifically about this topic, but this topic came up because when I really close my eyes and I feel it, it's grief to the point that I can't even stay there too long because it's so overwhelming, the grief that I feel for these children with their woke parents. A truly awakened parent would never allow their child to harm themselves in the name of self righteousness. They would never allow that to occur.

Yeah, so now you're kind of saying what I meant with spirituality and joy. So when you wake up, when you become awakened and you can really feel that, then you can also feel more in the world. And this is where you need boundaries because you can't take on everything that you see and feel like, oh, that is happening there in the world. They are eating this. They are not sleeping. Right. That's happening. Like, and especially for you being in America, I can like feel that it's even more, you know, because you see more people that you would like to help in the space of wellness. Of course. But it's so important to get back to that. The best work that you could ever do is to, to work on your joy and your presence and, and your own journey. Because if we go on and start to feel everything that is going on in the world, that is when we don't like spirituality, that is when we want to push it away because it feels too heavy, way too heavy.

That's when we're praying to the growth God. As Connor talked about. You brought up something really beautiful and we've never talked about this on a podcast ever, which is why this is just a special moment when I'm in the dark. When we're in the dark, it is so important to know that it is temporary. Because just that awareness alone, just the awareness that the darkness can be and is temporary allows one to not get stuck. The awareness that all things are temporary, all things are fleeting, is actually the golden truth, the truly universal truth, the. The wholehearted truth that I think can block someone from ever getting stuck. I can remember my past when I was going through massive depression. I used to ask my mentors and my therapist, I'd say, well, how long should I explore the darkness before I leave? You know, how long should allow myself to actually bathe in the pain body or bathe in the darkness before I leave. And you know what it really was. I didn't have the faculty, the emotional intelligence, or the self trust to know that I can exit at any time. I can exit the darkness at any time I choose. I don't have to ever be stuck in the darkness. And paradoxically, the more I'm open to experiencing the darkness when it has something to teach me me, that's power. Because then I never have to be in fear of the darkness because I know that I can go into it and I know that I have the intelligence to leave at any time after I've received the lesson. That's really beautiful. I'm so glad that we touched on this because I've never actually shared that on any podcast. And at 44 years old, it rings super true for me because in my 30s, I would never want to go to the darkness because I was afraid that I might get stuck because I didn't have the spiritual maturity to know that I can exit the darkness at any time I choose. And there's peace in that. There's. There's joy in that because you can go through the darkness and celebrate your learnings on the other side. It's like, you know, you finish a marathon and you're covered in sweat or you, you know, you do something that's so hard physically, you feel so good when you're done. Well, it's the same way with spirituality. That's the same way with emotions. It's all the same. Jenny.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I love that. And that's also like, what. What is it that you need to let go of first before letting go of the darkness? Before being able to let go of the darkness? Victimhood.

I find it really. I want to push back on you. I find it really interesting that you said, I've never been a victim. How could that be humanly possible?

Of course, in others eyes, I have been. But I have always been thinking that this life is happening for me. So whatever happens, whatever curveball happens, I'm always like, it doesn't matter if it's my mom, she got cancer. I was still. This is happening for a reason. Interesting. I wonder what the reason is in this. Not a tear. We were just. Because my mom is super spiritual. So we were both just like, this is a lesson. What is it that we're going to get out of this? And the lesson in that was that our connection and her connection to her children and her daughters became so much more deep on all levels. So we could see that very quickly. And we, with Anything in life, I've always been like, no, no, no, this is happening for me. This too guy rejecting me. Thank you. Let's go.

In the moment, though, of rejection, it hurts. And you move through that hurt. Right. You have a intelligence that allows you to move through the hurt. Because otherwise there's a slippery slope where you could just be like, it's all love and light. Which we know isn't true for you, cuz you already talked about Iron Maiden. But it's really interesting for people to get stuck in there because love and light can be the biggest mask that we wear. If you're wearing a mask of all love and light, get ready for more dark. You're going to attract that towards you.

Yeah. Because it needs to be balanced out. You need both.

Cancer is interesting and the reason I feel that is because I remembered something you shared with me. Speaking of dark and light, cancer is viewed as like this darkness. Oh my God, cancer. It's like such a heavy thing. My friend Scott, which I shared that clip with you on Instagram, Scott Jackson, who I love, he's a brother and a mentor and he went through such a journey with cancer. And there is a clip that I'll. That I'll send you and that will link in the show notes. It's the most beautiful, profound, healing, powerful, joyful clip I think we've ever produced on the show. And it was him sharing about his journey with cancer and his journey about healing his wound of the feminine and himself. And I remember you had shared with me that when your mom got her cancer diagnosis, she actually welcomed it in. And because she welcomed it in, that's why it chose to leave.

Yeah. So I was very, you know, in it when I, When I was really looking at her like, how is she gonna do this, this journey? You know, because it is a journey when you get that. That kind of. Yeah. Sickness. And just because she is so spiritual, she's the most spiritual person I've ever met. So I was like, how is she going to do this with Jesus? You know? So she really, she said, I'm holding God's hand in this and I'm welcoming it. And I was like, what do you mean with welcoming it? And she was like, yeah. Because I've seen others having cancer and what they seem to do is pushing it away and don't want to have it. But this is a part of me now, Jenny. If I welcome it and I say that, okay, cancer, let's go. Go through me. Teach me what I need to learn. Because she had Been smoking cigarettes for years too. So she was a lot like, okay, this is my lesson. This is my lesson. I'm taking it. Let's go. And I think that that fact that she did that, that she was just like, I'm gonna let, let this go right through me. I'm not going to let it stay, but I'm going to let it go through me and let it teach me what it's supposed to teach me. Because what many are doing when they get sick, like any sickness at all is that we, we try to push it away, like she said. And when pushing something away and not wanting anything and panicking, that is causing more stress in the body. And what is stress causing? More. More cancer. So.

So maybe he was right. Maybe Napoleon Hill was right, which, you know, look, you can think what you want about Napoleon Hill, but one of his quotes that is quoted everywhere is what you resist, persists. And I've definitely felt that in my life. And it's been echoed through almost every guest we've had on in some way. What I push against, what I fight against, what I'm angry against, what I hold resentment against, I fuel it. I actually feed it through my own resistance. That is one concept that I hope you all get today from this incredible conversation. A very slower paced conversation, a very much more water conversation we've had today. I wonder, before we say goodbye, what is something that you've been wanting to share that maybe this is the perfect time or place to share it?

Well, this has been like the fastest conversation that I've had in months. So it's the other way around. You're speaking so fast and so good English that I'm like, huh? What did you say? What is it that I want to share? I felt like we missed a bit there with feminism and men and you know, because you said this, that we are meant to provide. And that's a big thing going on on the Internet too. Like, men are here to provide and, you know, all of that, like, yeah, but a woman is here to push her man too. Be that lioness behind him like you have. That's very important too.

She's a lioness. That's for show. But go into that. What do you mean by that? The lioness needs the lion and the lion needs the lioness.

Yeah, it's so much focus on what a man should be to a woman, but not so much focus on what a woman is supposed to be. You know, that is what I look forward to when I'm gonna meet him, you know, is to be that fire underneath him, to be that push, push that is taking him higher, just like you are feeling. Yeah.

And without that, maybe he could never go as far.

Exactly.

Jenny, I've so enjoyed this. It was so different. And this is why I love podcasting. I'm sure you can relate. Tell people where you can experience your podcast.

My podcast is on Spotify, Google Podcast and Apple. Apple Podcast.

And what is the name of the podcast?

Brave Souls.

Seems fitting. Seems very fitting, Jenny.

Fitting with lion.

Yeah, there's a lion in the logo. I'm glad we ended on the lioness then. So I've enjoyed this. I really think that what you're doing is great in the world, and great is an overused term, but true greatness does it, because it just can't not do it. Just like you talked about earlier, there's no way you couldn't not do this. So, as we say goodbye, answer the fundamental question that I've wondered ever since I was a little boy. I'd look around and I'd be like, why are all these adults so angry? Like, why is every. Why is this? What is this interstitial tension and unrest that I feel I've come to know, and we all know in the liberated life tribe that it really is bondage, is slavery, and it's conditioning, and it's just repeating something that was repeated before it. But at the end of the road, I think we're all going to look back and we're going to ask just one fundamental question. We're going to ask, did I live my life well? Did I have well being? Did I feel whole? Was I able to give and receive love? Was I able to reach my dreams and my purpose? Of course. But how do you define that? How do you define wellness.

Joy?

All right, Mic drop. Jenny, thank you for coming on the show. Such a unique conversation.

Thank you.

Okay, y', all, until we see you again on another podcast or on Instagram. By the way, we're linking Jenny's Instagram in the notes below. You're watching or listening to this. It'll be right there for you. Jenny, what is your Instagram handle, Jenny?

Dinovi.

Is that. It almost sounds Italian. Dinovi.

That's what they say. But I'm Swedish.

But it's Swedish. Okay. All right. Until Jenny and I see you again, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.