Drew Manning: Fit After 40 & Why Drew Gained 75 Pounds (Again!) | Wellness Force #Podcast

If people could just experience that for even five minutes, you know, I think they would get a taste of it and be like, okay, that's what I'm missing. It's not about the body. It's about the feeling of being healthy. Like, your. Your mind is sharp and clear all day long. You have good digestion. You're able to play with your kids, your grandkids. You're able to go on a hike and see this beautiful world. You're able to travel without aches and pains. Like, there's so many benefits to taking care of your physical health outside of the looks of. And so that's what my hope is, is people will join me on the journey back to fit, to learn just how to do this and operate out of a place of self love versus self hate. Because we all know after 2020, this world needs more of that. If people love themselves and had empathy, we would not have the divisiveness that we have today. Sam.

So, look, I know you have a lot going on today, so I thought it'd be kind of fitting that you and I do six deep, rolling, connected belly breaths together.

Yeah. All right, I'm down. Let me clear everything out. Yeah, I'm just gonna follow your lead, if that's okay.

For sure, dude.

For sure.

Are you seated or standing?

Standing.

Me, too. I'm standing, too. All right, so just let the edge of the desk push into your belly. All right, so big inhale through your nose, feel your stress, and then hold it for three at the top. Exhale for three. Do five more, Then this one. Breathe in as hard as you can, And then last one, fill your collarbones with air. Yes.

Good stuff. All right. I love that. That's a good way to start the podcast.

Drew, welcome back to this conversation that we had, gosh, two years ago, man, you know how excited I am to have you on the show right now. I can't. I can't even begin with words to share with you just how incredibly impressed I am about how you're navigating this intentional weight gain for the second time. I'm kind of like, what is he doing? But just. We did some breath work right there, and I'm actually. I'm going to leave that in our process, too, for everyone to see and do with us, because, man, it feels like not only you, Drew Manning needs to do deep breathing, but the world in general needs to do some deep breaths, man. So just thank you for being here in this space again, and thank you for being a friend, a mentor at Times and also just a conscious creator, man. So welcome back to Wellness Force.

Thanks for having me back and good memories with you. You know, just as to hanging out, but also on your podcast last time, it was very interesting situation, you know, in the hotel room, I believe.

Right? That's right. I was wearing the Normatec boots at that time. And you, you eventually did run the hundred miles with your brother.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So I accomplished it. He tried and didn't make it, but yeah, so we reattempted it this year in 2020, and this time I finally did it. Because when you interviewed me two years ago, that was my first attempt and I only got 80 miles. I won't call it a failure because I learned so much from it and it motivated me to do it again, but with a different mentality. And this time around, I was able to achieve that task of a hundred miles in under 24 hours.

Well, dude, I'm beyond just impressed. And we're going to dig into so much today. But before we dig into the topics, really what I believe is the true meaning of empathy, the true meaning of wellness and what it actually means to be in a physical body and love and respect it. That's what we're digging into today. We're not going to be able to cover the whole thing in our podcast, but as a jumping off point, man, with everything you've been through so far, and I see you on social right, fit to fat2fit on Instagram and this second round of 75 pounds weight gain, like, dude, what was the moment when you told yourself, I, I'm going to do this again, but I'm going to do this with a focus on empathy this time. Not that it wasn't there in the first time, but there was something really different about this time around, man, like, share with the people. What's the empathy connection to this second weight gain?

Yeah, for sure. It had to do with how I saw 2020 going. Because I had the idea in my head like, okay, what if I did again? But I had to have some kind of strong meaning behind it. I couldn't just do it again just to be like, oh, yeah, hey guys, I'm doing this again for fun. There had to be something really powerful. And when 2020 hit, we all know since January, February, March, things got crazy. It got very divisive. And I was like, you know what? Now is the time. I'm turning 40. So I was like, that's a perfect time to do it because this demographic, this age group, thinks you Know, it's harder and it's. It's not as easy to lose weight and maintain weight loss. And I was like, what a perfect time. Plus, the empathy thing, I was like, now's my time to deliver my message. And I felt like I was almost being called to do it a second time, because the first time around you mentioned I didn't really know what to expect. I had never been overweight before a day in my life. So the first time was more about learning and gaining experience of, okay, what is it like to be overweight? Pulled some amazing lessons and came out of that journey way more empathetic. And now that I've evolved As a human, 10 years later, I have so much more I want to say this time around. And so doing it a second time gives me another chance at getting my message across. And like you said, it's one of empathy.

Well, dude, the definition of empathy, the ability to understand and share the feelings of other. But this is a big line of demarcation. It's a big line of demarcation because sharing and understanding the feelings of someone else does not mean that we codependently attach to them. And you have something awesome that we chatted on social. And I'm going to link this in our show notes.

Sure.

Empathy without boundaries. Empathy without boundaries is really. How do you phrase it?

Is enabling.

It's enablement.

Yeah.

If I have empathy for someone and I don't have any boundaries. You remind me actually of Zach Bush. He was on the show three, four months ago, and we were talking about all the stress that we're all experiencing right now, and he was saying, you know, don't have just pure empathy for someone. Because I think he was alluding to what you were saying. Empathy without boundaries is a enabling someone. Instead of empathy, have reverence for someone. And reverence is where we're not codependent. So I can only imagine, man, like, the changes that have been going on for you. I know personally, professionally, as a dad, as a business owner, beyond you gaining 75 pounds on purpose for the second time. Just 2020 alone has been the ultimate test of empathy and reverence and boundaries. Like, please take a breath. Just drop in with us, man. Just share with us, like, what has really, truly in your heart been going on in 2020, specifically with this weight gain.

Yeah. You know what? It's. It's. It's so connected to what I see going on in the world. And I see so much divisiveness, which is heavy for me as an empath. I Want to reach out to everyone and feel all their pain and say, look, these people are hurting over here, and these people are hurting over here and hurt people, hurt people. And this is why this continues. And so I want to. I'm. I feel like I'm in the middle of a lot of it where I want to bring people together, have there be more understanding and develop some empathy for each other, because that's my true nature. Like, that's just, I guess, the way I was created. And so for me, it hurts to see so much divisiveness, even among my own family and among my own friends. It's really hard because I don't want to feel like I have to pick sides. I hate being put in that position. I was like, hey, what side are you on? Oh, if you're not with me, you're against me. I don't like that mentality. I think Brene Brown talks a lot about that in her book Braving the Wilderness. And so for me, I can kind of hold space for a lot of people. And doing this journey a second time has been really humbling, Josh. So much harder. And it's interesting because I've been doing a lot of work and thinking, like, why is it so much harder? And the biggest thing that I can come up with is, you know, this new version of me, Josh, like the old version of me, I wore a mask a lot of times and I didn't really show emotions. So there was no high highs and there was no low lows because I was really good at not really feeling my emotions. I didn't allow myself to feel emotions. And so this time around, I'm more self aware and I feel all the emotions. And so my highs are really high in life, but then my lows are really low. And doing this experiment, I didn't realize just how much harder it was going to be mentally, emotionally, spiritually compared to the first time 10 years ago. And, man, I'm truly humbled. I. I am like in this position where I'm in the fourth quarter. I have one more month left to go. I'm up 52 pounds so far.

And by the time they hear this, they're joining you with us, which we're going to talk about. All the people like myself that are 40 and you're 40, they can actually join you in the rebirthing of 2021. So I had to put that in there.

Yeah, well, hopefully we can talk about that towards the end of how people can join me.

And yes.

And so anyways, I haven't cried this much in my life. And like, man, I don't know how long, probably since my divorce. And that was one of the hardest things I've ever been through. There's been so many hardships and there's been so many lessons learned of, like, here I am thinking I'm a spiritual woke person. And I did feel like I had my stuff together or shit together. Can we cuss on here?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I felt like I had my shit together. And this really showed me that I still have a ton of work to do because I was like, oh, man, I got things figured out. I know how to be happy. I can meditate and journal and do my gratitude list. But none of that. When your physical health goes to shit, the way I'm doing to myself on purpose, people don't realize. It's like pouring a bucket of water on a burning building. Yeah. Meditation helps a little bit here and there. Breathing helps a little bit here and there. It's not going to save you. There's so many other things that you have to do to put that fire out. These are just small things that I've been able to continue to do throughout my journey. But, man, when. When you're. When you're building your body is. Is in a. Is a mess like it is with my journey. Yeah, it just. It's way more powerful than I thought it was going to be. So.

Wow, dude, we're scratching the surface. You know, we're going to get way deeper, man, because, you know, you and I, you. The way you and I communicate with one another. And also just what wellness for stands for. It's about intelligence.

Right.

And in my opinion, dude, what you're doing, actually embodying the challenges that your clients, that people that follow you, that people across the world that are straight up strug with weight gain. I want to flip the script on that a little bit before we go deeper into your process, because I've heard you say things like this before, and I've heard it from many colleagues. You don't lose the weight and then become happy. Let's dig into this. You actually do the work for inner peace and happiness, including emotional intelligence, having healthy empathy for others. It's an inside job first. And then the weight gain comes. It's kind of like, how do I make money from a place of struggle instead of a place of openness? Right. Scarcity versus love. So can you unpack that a little bit more? For people that haven't heard this concept of, like, happiness and weight gain, Happiness.

And weight loss 100%. This is the biggest thing I'm trying to do, is shift people's perception of what success looks like in the health and fitness industry. Because we've been programmed to think, okay, success is this body of an Instagram model or this athlete or this celebrity of getting skinny, lean, 5% body fat. And we think, okay, once I get there, once I get the body, then all my problems will go away. Then I'll be happy, you know, and that's the way we look at it. So we're like, okay, I want these results. Therefore I'm gonna put up with this process, which for a lot of people, they're like, oh. Their perception of the processes. Process is, oh, man, this sucks. Like, I have to. You have to be in a caloric deficit. I have to eat healthy food, I have to work out. Oh, okay, I'll do that. But hopefully I'll get these results. And then once I do, then I'll be happy. People will love me, people will respect me, I'll respect myself. And if you haven't seen the movie the Nutty professor, that's a great example of how temporarily you're like, oh, yeah, man, spandex all day. Do you remember that movie with Eddie Murphy?

Sure.

When he goes from morbidly obese to, like, skinny, like, overnight with a pill. And it's. It's a. It's a temporary thing for sure. But if you're not fulfilled on the inside, first and foremost, I promise you, once you get the body, you're still going to be missing something. And just like people who chase after money, we know that's a myth. People who think, okay, If I have $5 million or $10 million, maybe one of these things, one of these outside things in this world will fix my brokenness, my quote unquote brokenness. And that's what I'm trying to do, is help shift people's perception to learn how to operate out of a place of self love instead of self hate. And once you operate out of a place of self love, then you're like, okay, I like the way I feel when I eat real food. Like, it makes me feel good and I'm worth it now to treat my body kindly by giving it real food, by moving it in a way that feels good to me and my body. And I'm not doing it for the results anymore. The results kind of take a backseat for a second, and then from there, we learn to fall in love with the process. We do the process because we actually love ourselves. And we deserve to be. To feel good, to feel healthy. And then what happens over time is once people flip that switch, then. Then the results actually end up taking care of themselves over time because you start to live that lifestyle consistently because you. You're operating at a place of self love. You fall in love with the process, and then, boom, the results automatically come. And so shifting people's perception is really hard to do, but that's what I'm trying to do on my Fit to fat to 40 journey. And that's why I want people to join me come January to learn how to do that, so that this isn't just another diet that people go on. It's a huge mindset shift that needs to happen for people to shift their perception. And that's why there's going to be so much more focus on the mental, emotional side of fitness than just the physical side.

Wow, man. At the bottom of everything you're describing, and I've always known this about you. I met you at a paleo conference maybe four years ago, something like that.

Yeah.

And you were just genuinely interested. Like, you're like, oh, I think we got introduced by. By Shauna, who's. Who I love.

Yeah.

And she. She was like, this is my friend Drew. And I had known a little bit about you, but I didn't really know of your work. And I'll be honest, at first glance, I was like, who's this super fit guy? He may not. I was projecting onto you when I first met you. I'm letting you know this because it helps us with our projections. Right. I was like, he probably, like, has been fit forever. He doesn't know. And then I found out that you were the guy that lost the weight that he gained on purpose. And I had to look at myself in the mirror and realize that I was judgmental because I was like, oh, Drew's never known what I've gone through because I was £280 at one point. And so. But you do know what it's like and what's really special about you, man, that I love. And really brings us to the next part of the conversation is there is this phrase that we talk about on Wellness Force, and it's the wellness arc. The arc of wellness, the arc of intelligence for wellness. And it's about gathering information. It's about applying information. And lastly, what you're doing right now is about embodying that information, and you're doing it on your physical body. You know, you're gaining. It's 60 pounds this time. Or 75 pounds.

Around 60 is what I'll end up at.

So you're on purpose for the second time, gaining 60 pounds, losing it. So you can learn about what this journey is like for the men and the women who are more mature, you know, in their 30s. And you'll be 40.

Wow.

Dude. Like, first of all, just thank you for doing this because I know you've paid the price, like it's been three months now, right, that you've been doing this.

Yeah.

What are some of the biggest prices that you've paid for being this embodiment?

Yep. So one of the biggest prices I paid is the mental, emotional struggle that this journey has kind of put me through. But this is one of the reasons why I wanted to do it a second time was I feel like social media wasn't what it is Today back in 2011, when I first did it. Now I have an opportunity, opportunity to show people, you know, on a day by day basis of exactly what I'm going through physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. So they could see, hopefully become more aware of the lifestyle they're living and how it affects them emotionally, how it affects them, how it affects their relationships, how it affects their sex life. And connect those dots. Because for me, I kind of went into it thinking I was prepared for this, Josh, but, man, it's kicked my ass in so many different ways. And like, if you ask my daughters, you know, what they think of my journey, they don't like it. They don't like this version of me because they do notice I'm grumpier, I'm more irritable, I'm less patient with them. And so they don't. They notice that they're picking up on that. And then Julie, my relationship with my girlfriend Julie, it's caused huge, huge issues between us, which I can't get into yet. Josh, we can maybe talk off air, but there's some things I want to talk about, but I just need some time to process. But she'll, she'll say the same thing. I've changed in certain ways. I wouldn't say I'm this crazy person. I do notice the power of the shift in hormones, the power and the, in the shift of my emotional well being. As much as I, like I said, as much as I meditate or do breath work or journal or a gratitude list, it is still way more powerful that to where I do see it affecting me. And that's the price I'm paying during this journey is the mental, emotional, spiritual toll that is taking on Me, even though I'm doing this on purpose, even though I know what's happening, it's hard to still separate yourself from going down that path where you, when it is that powerful, does that make sense?

Well, it makes perfect sense because you said, I thought I was prepared because I had done it before. But what all of us get to accept, and this is you mirroring this, right? Is that what you did 10 years ago? When it comes to your health, your fitness, your emotional intelligence, it doesn't have shit to do with who you are today, because who you are today is an amalgam of your consciousness, the lessons you've learned, and everything that has brought you 10 years forward. So yes, there's key characteristics of, like, emotional well being and self care. Those things matter from 10 years ago. But the signature soul essence that Drew Manning is, is, is totally different at 40 than he was at 30, 31. Like, coming into this, what do you wish you could have prepared for more?

I wish. That's a really good question. I really wish I could have prepared for, you know, the, the change in mood, the change in being irritable. I didn't realize my sleep was going to get, get so bad. Like, I had no idea that my sleep would be so affected. And, and here's the thing. Any parent out there that's listening, that has kids, knows the sleep, knows what sleep deprivation is. When you have a newborn baby for two months, you're barely sleeping, you're. You're sleeping for an hour or two, wake up, get the baby, go to sleep for an hour or two, wake up, get the baby. Like, you know what true sleep deprivation is and you know how you change as a person. Like, you're not, you're like a zombie. So I'm constantly in survival mode where I'm like, okay, I didn't sleep well. There's stress with my daughters. Okay, Here, eat some candy. Okay? My girlfriend needs attention, you know, and I don't have the same ability to handle stress like I used to because I'm constantly in survival mode and I'm aware of this. But the effort it takes, the mental effort it takes to be present for my girlfriend, be present for my daughters, do a Facebook live, do a podcast. You know, all that stuff is exhausting, physically and mentally exhausting for me. And that's how it's affected me in so many ways. Even though I was kind of aware of a little bit of what would happen, I wasn't really prepared for how hard it was going to be.

I remember I heard Ram Dass, quote, before he passed, he said, if you think you're enlightened, go spend a weekend with your family.

And I'm like, so true.

Well, because I'm thinking about, like, everything you're describing in our conversation so far is. Is perfect timing, because people are listening to this the first week of January. This is the first show that people are hearing, awesome. January, the new start, the 2021. But let's be honest with each other. I'm not going to sugarcoat this. The road ahead does not look easy to me. It just doesn't. Right. And I don't know what camp you're in. And quite frankly, I don't think these camps even exist. Pro mask. No mask. Pro Covid. No Covid. Democrat, Republican, pro life, pro choice. All these things are meant to divide us, to separate us. What you're doing is, I think you're not able, as just one human being, to tackle world economic policy and all these different things. But what you're doing, man, that I love and appreciate so much, and this is why I'm stoked to have this be the very first show of 2020. If we are not clean and loving in our conduit where we live, you know, like our temple, like where we reside, if our house is dirty, internally, mentally, how are we supposed to even begin to fix the world's problems, to fix our societal problems? I mean, I'm getting chills just talking to you about it. Everyone's looking for world peace. Everybody's looking for an outside fix, for an inside problem. And Covid is here to. To make us look in the mirror even more at how we're treating each other and how we're treating ourselves? Did you even think that this would be something that would shift people into meeting the demands of COVID and meeting the demands of their lives? Like, this is a major deal that you're teaching people about their physical health, because that's where the root of everything begins.

Yeah. No, it's a good question. And I had hope that it would become that for people, where people would see it as, okay, 2020 sucked, right? 2021. I'm gonna start off on the right foot. I'm gonna make some changes. I'm gonna do some good in my life. And what a better way, or there's not really a better way than to take care of your physical health. But. But you could go do any program out there. You could do any diet, take any supplement. That's not what's gonna fix it. Right? You said outside. Outside Fix for an inside problem.

Yup.

So I'll give people the physical stuff, like the physical tools that we need to. To make those changes. But the biggest thing that has to happen is that mindset shift. And that's where people don't really understand or know how to do that, because they look at physical transformation as just physical. And yes, if you break it down, yes, you eat less calories, you work out, that changes your body. But it's so much more of an emotional journey for people, and that's what derails them, is because when it gets too hard, when doing that process that we talked about, like, we talked about gets too hard for them, then they're like, you know what? This isn't worth it. Or they find a way to. To escape and say, no. Like, this is too hard for me. I'm not seeing the results I want. So I'm just going to go back to my old ways. And that's the key to making a true lifestyle change, is helping people shift their perception, make that mindset shift so that they don't see this as a punishment, they don't see this as a chore that they have to do to get this result to be happy. Does that make sense, man?

It's crystal clear. Because I think so many people, when they even look at the word diet, right? D I E is people feel like they're gonna die when they do a diet. And by the way, what we're talking about is fit2fat2fit.com forward/back to fit. So fit to fat2fit.com forward slash back to fit. That's the conversation we're having to go there. If you're watching this on YouTube or if you're driving, like, pull over and do it. Do not text and drive. Do not like that. I will not take responsibility for texting and driving y'.

All.

So pull over and go to that URL. But what you're really touching on, man, and this is what I believe the world needs, is this phrase of embodiment. I want to go back to it again because I know you've done a lot of internal work. You've done men's work, you've done plant medicine. You've done breath work. You've done a lot. Specifically Katherine Dixon, who you introduced me to.

Yes. Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.

You've done a lot for me, man. You opened up my world. I want to thank you right here, right now. You opened up the permission for me to talk about my pornography addiction and like that, I mean, it gives me like a cry feeling just to tell you this, because it was a 25 year addiction where I just went to it whenever I didn't want to face the demands of my stress and my modern world. And, and, and when I went through that man, I was actually healed by Paul Check, who I've had on the show. And he helped me navigate a very brutal Ayahuasca journey. And in that Ayahuasca journey, I was shown some of the messages that you were trying to tell me that nothing we do is bad, nothing we do is wrong. It is my resistance. And to the degree that I'm resisting myself, shaming myself, beating myself up for doing the thing, whether it's watching the porn, eating the food shopping, it's all the same thing, people. Yeah, it's all the same shit. So I just want to thank you for that, man, because you really like, you know, with your platform and who you are as a man, as a father, like that takes balls to come out and really say, like, hey guys, I had a porn addiction and it probably was some of the reason why my past relationship didn't work out. So, dude, from my heart to yours and from every single human being that has ever suffered from an addiction which Gabor Marte calls the opposite of connection. Right?

Anything.

We're not connected. I just want to say thank you, brother. Thank you for putting that out in the space because that was the beginning of a journey I didn't know I was even on, which was healing my relationship with porn and actually turning to it and loving it for what it did for me. So thank you.

Can we talk about that for a sec? And I'll tie this in to what we're talking about. You know, physical well being.

Yes.

Porn addiction you mentioned. Like, like I, like, I struggle with that, you know, the first 30 plus years of my life or not, you know, until I was like, I started looking at when I was like 14. So.

Right, right.

Anyways, but what I'm saying is like a lot of people see porn addiction as like, okay, that's that category over there. Like those people do that. But my stuff is over here and it's healthier, it's better. Here's what people aren't realizing is so many of us as humans, we look for things to numb the pain of emotional distress, whether it's trauma or emotional challenges or abuse or whatever it is. We look for substances of some type to numb the pain or distract us from having to deal with, with that pain of that Emotional trauma or stress. So for some people, it's porn. For some people it's food. For some people it's drugs. For some people, it's alcohol, sex, movies, TV shows, social media, shopping, whatever it is. There's so many things in this world to create that stimulus where it's like, all right, this helps me numb the pain. And we develop those mental pathways from a very young age. Whatever is the easiest, most easily accessible thing for us. For us growing up in the 90s, raising hormones, the Internet was like, oh, my gosh, this is a whole new world, right? Yeah, yeah. And for other people, it's Twinkies, it's. It's wine, it's chocolate, it's whatever it is. But to. The key to overcome that is to become aware. This is why so many people ask me, how do you overcome emotional eating? The key, and you might call it something different, but it's self awareness. As you become more self aware, you become aware of what your triggers are. Okay? And so if you're in a situation where your trigger is an argument with your spouse or your kid driving you crazy, or finances or whatever it is you are aware of now in the moment, you become the observer of your thoughts. And when you're the observer, you get to sit back and watch it like a movie of like, okay, here comes the stress there, here comes the triggers. Here comes those emotions. Okay, now I can feel I'm going to go grab something. Where's the closest alcohol or drug or porn that I can go? Now, when you're the observer now, you can thoughtfully respond in those moments instead of react. Because before, like you and I, when we would react to a situation, we're not even really fully conscious. We're not even really thinking. We're just reacting because that's what we've done for so long. And then all of a sudden, when we're done, it's like, shit, what did I just do? Like, man, why did I do this again? Like, I thought, I thought I was in control and that people blame themselves and the guilt, the shame, and it creates this vicious cycle and it's so hard to break until you become self aware. Like I said, you might call it some. Something different, but that's the key for a lot of people when it comes to emotional eating is the same kind of healing mechanism.

Wow, Drew, like so much to. We could do an entire podcast on what you just said. I'm just gonna pepper in a couple questions because I know people are feeling it when we have these vices and by the way, I think it's an interesting metaphor. Anything that's a vice keeps you stuck. And I was thinking about that when you were sharing, because you have actually done the work to release yourself from the vice, but you did it by reframing and understanding not from just an intellectual level, but from a head to heart level where you have to actually go within yourself and ask the deepest, hardest, darkest questions about why do you go to the screen? Why do you eat the Twinkies and the donuts? Why do you yell at your spouse and then go shopping? Why do you work 75, 90 hours a week? What's really going on here? I think all roads, man, lead to the truth. And the truth is how much do you love yourself and this journey of self love that you have talked about so much in the media? Dude, this is why I believe people connect with you. This is why I connect with you. Because self love is not a light switch. We cannot just go decide, one day I'm going to love myself. It is a journey. It is a journey, man. So please, like, contrast this for us, our current society, and how our society discusses emotional health, discusses physical health, spiritual health, versus what you actually know to be true. What does Drew know to actually be true about those components, physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, even financial, versus what society and the mainstream media and the programming is feeding us. What's the difference and what's the truth?

Yeah. So for me, I think the difference is the way we grew up in this world is we learn those components as separate things. We learn about physical transformation as this category. It has nothing to do with our emotional, spiritual side. I just had, for example, I just had. My daughter went with her mom to the doctor about some kind of issue she's having, constipation issues. And the doctor's like, oh, just take this. And there was no. I was like, did they even talk about diet or nutrition at all? She. She's like, no. She just told her to take this pill, this medicine, and that's going to fix it. I'm like, why is there no. So what I'm saying is the way society teaches us is two separate or multiple separate ways of looking at healing ourselves. It's like, okay, you need to go over here for physical health, over here for financial health, over here for spiritual health. And it's these separate things instead of. For me, what I've learned over the years is they're all connected. They're all intertwined. My emotional health affects my physical health. My physical health affects my financial health. And if you can't see that yet, that's where you need to almost unlearn. Unlearn what you've been taught, which is really hard to do, right? It's like, okay, how do I unlearn all of this? No doubt we've been programmed to look at these things as separate things. And this is why some people are super successful at finances, but their health is horrible. And then. And then they're like, oh, man, I'm about to die. I need to fix my health. Let me spend my wealth I just made. And so we go through life just focusing on one of these areas only and leaving those other areas behind because we've made one of them a priority instead of all of them. Out of a place of self, love. Instead of like, okay, if I have the physical health, then people will love me, or if I have financial health, then people will love me. And so that's the way I'm trying to make sense to you and the audience of what I'm trying to say is the way we're taught is that we take care of these things as separate things. They're not connected. For me, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial health are all intertwined and all connected. And I'm not a guru or an expert, but this is what I've learned in my first 40 years of my life. And now I'm just starting to live. Like, okay, now I see the connection between my spiritual health and my financial health and my physical health. It's all tied together. And so that's how I go about my life, is seeing those connections.

What do you think is the glue or the thread that allows you to connect all of those compartments?

That's a good question. I think for me, it has to do with. Honestly, and this might sound weird for some people, but it's being a dad. It's being a dad. Like, that's how I pay it forward in this life is being a dad to my daughters. And so for me to do that, I have to be the best version of myself. Not just physically. I can't just have a six pack and expect that to carry over to my daughters. I have to be the example first. Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, so that I can then pass that on to my daughters so that they don't have to go through the struggles that I went through as a kid, you know, trying to learn all these things. And so for me, that is the glue for me to see those connections, to become the best version of myself, so that they grow up with a father. That is the example for them and can really help them through this journey of life, which is freaking hard, man. It's so difficult. And so for me, that's my glue.

There's this observer lens that you mentioned, and I love that because it's really easy to read it in a book, you know, like Eckhart Tolle or all these people that talk about observation. But to really observe, you have to, like, take a big, deep breath, pull way back from the elephant, and see just how big the issue is. And one. One thing that I love that we talked about last time, two years ago, when you had the Normatec boots on, which we'll link that in the. In the show notes, because there's a rich history of Drew's story and, like, how you left religion, and there's a lot of gems there, so please go listen to that episode. But, but one of the things I wanted to ask you is how did you cross the chasm between being the observer of all these things and coming from a really parental and religious upbringing, that being the observer was not allowed. You know, like, being the observer was not allowed. Working with someone like Catherine Dixon was not allowed. Being empathetic and vulnerable in public was probably not allowed, maybe even shamed. So you don't have to go into the whole story, because we know about your previous history in the. In the show, but. But walk us through, like, maybe like the inflection point where you began to change and then. And then how you continue to fortify that now.

Yeah, great question. So the, The, The. The. The pivotal moment for me was hitting rock bottom. I think rock bottom moments in life are the best things that can happen to a human because it forces radical change upon you. If you choose to change, it's not going to magically do it for you, but it kind of pushes you. Like other. Other times in life, you're not really pushed when you are found out, when you, you, you know, not physically, but you know what I'm saying. When people see through your mask and you hit rock bottom, that is a pivotal moment. And this is what my pivotal moment was, was was leaving religion and going through a divorce. I was at my rock bottom where I was like, who am I? Like what? Like, who am I without these things? I don't know who I am. I don't know what I'm doing. And it's those questions that start to fester in your brain, and you're like, okay, what am I going to do about this? Am I going to stay stuck here and play the victim mindset. Blame people, blame my parents, blame religion, blame God, blame whoever. Or I could use this moment as a teaching moment to become a better version of myself. So I have to discover who I am. And so for me, it was rock bottom. And then from there, being open to new outside things that I've never really been open to. Like you said. Katherine Dixon, you know the book Loving what Is by Byron Katie, Doing the work, therapy, podcasts, meditating, breathwork, journaling, positive affirmations, gratitude list. All those things combined over years at plant medicine? I'll throw that in there too.

Sure.

All those things combined over the years helped me to see myself through a new lens, to see my situation through a new lens. And that's, I think, for me, I think what most humans, if they want to progress, have to go through is possibly multiple rock bottom moments to force radical change. Be open to new things to help you shift your perception. And then from there, that's how growth happens.

There's something about the human psyche or just the human experience that's ultimately challenging for us all. And that is we either learn through pain or we learn through pleasure. But I'll say this, man, and I don't know why. I don't know why God designed it this way or spirit designed this way. By the way, when I say God, I don't mean a bearded dude in the sky. It's not like another version of Drew is up there with a beard, like, looking down on us. I am. Because two things, right? Number one, like, how has your spirituality and your connection to God, to all there is, to spirit itself, been tested during this time? Because I can imagine there have been moments at night where you're just like, what the hell is going on? My body, my relationship, my business. Oh, my God. So share with us that one thing. And then also, like, how would you just describe your overarching connection to higher power? Because whether you're blue zones or not, we know that higher power extends life and increases quality of life.

Yeah. Okay, so the first question, and you're talking about during my Fit to fit.

To 40 journey, during this current journey, you know, how has that been challenged? I can only imagine, like, there's been some probably kneeling on the ground moments, right?

Yes. So much, man. So much. Like I said, I haven't cried more in my life than I have during this first phase of my fit by 40 journey. I think a lot of it has to do with me, my ego, feeling like I had things figured out. And I feel like God, the universe, whatever, you want to call. It puts me through these situations where you're like, no, you still have a long ways to go. And I'm, like, super frustrated. I'm frustrated because I feel like I've been through so much. I feel like I've been through so much hell. Why? Why more. Why more like, heartache? Why more pain? So that's kind of. That's kind of a test. I think every human has to go through that. Questioning, like, why do I have to go through this lesson right now? Like, I know everything happens for me. Couldn't there have been an easier way to do this? But I promise you this, Josh. You know, five years from now, look back on this and be super grateful for this moment. And that's the key in healing, is to be able to look back on those painful moments and say, thank you, God. Thank you, universe, for this moment, because this helped me become who I am today. So you can't see it now. So that's kind of what I've been going through with this journey so far. Second question was, sorry, my brain isn't what it used to be, Josh. Before this, I'm trying to remember.

You're solid, man. I mean, I just want to let that land for everyone. Wow, dude. You know, this isn't just some social media meme that you just said for all of us to be able to pause and look at the hardest things as gifts. It's easy to read that in a book. It's really hard to do what you just said. Like, there is something about you that enables you to reframe these challenges. Do you feel like it's too early for you to reframe the challenge you're currently experiencing, or are you just supposed to go through it right now?

I feel like it's. It's a little bit too early to reframe. Like, I feel like I'm in the moment. I'm in the pain, I'm in the hurt. I'm in the heartache. And I know I just need time, like, for me to get to where I was after my divorce. Took years. I don't think it's going to take me years. I think it'll take me maybe a month or two, maybe more. I don't know. But I feel like right now it's too early because I have all the tools. I know all what I'm supposed to do. It's just the feelings are really powerful. I can't just ignore them. I have to. And that's the thing is, I think another important Lesson is, sometimes we want to bypass the pain and fast forward through the pain part. We're like, okay, I know this is going to be painful. You have to sit in the pain and really feel it and really feel that sucky feeling, like, this sucks. You can't. You can't fast forward that part. You're gonna miss out on so many opportunities. So I have to tell myself in these moments where I'm, like, by myself and I'm hurting and my heart is hurting and not physically, but emotionally, and just sit with it, and that's super hard because I want to look for a distraction. And right now, I am distracting myself. I'll be totally honest with you, Josh. I do reach for the food because that's part of my journey. I'm reaching for the alcohol because it's part of my journey, but it's also because I want it. I want to feel numb. I want to feel distracted. And this is what's gonna be so hard come January when I flip the switch and people are gonna do that with me. It's gonna be hard for me too, because I've developed now this dependency on these substances to numb that pain. And I know come January, the pain's not gonna be gone. So we, as a team, as a community, are gonna learn to deal with that pain in a new, healthier way together. And I'll be there with every single person holding your hand, feeling that struggle right along with you.

Fit to fat2fit.com back2fit is what we're talking about today. And, dude, the message that you're. You're like a massive lighthouse with a huge bulb on it, just. Just bursting it out into the fitness space. Because I'll tell you what I mean, I was a trainer for 10 years. I never had these conversations. Are you kidding me? If you would have come to me when I was a trainer in, like, 2009, 2010, and you would have said, hey, man, you really might want to check out the observer and, like, self love and start understanding what are the real key principles of being. Well, I would have laughed at you. I would have judged you for being too weak. This is the narrative. This is the narrative that you're changing, dude. And that's why this. This podcast is special, because it starts off our 2021, but it also starts off a new way of being for men. Specifically for men. Like, you have a tattoo on your side, and it's about your daughters and that feeling of being a parent. It's not something that all men have yet, right? Like, I'm gonna be a father in June. So there's a huge part of me that's like, I don't even know what I'm gonna do there, but I already feel the love and the connection to something bigger than me. So as we move forward with this new narrative of being a conscious man, doing the work, and embodying, how do people connect with that part of themselves if they're not a father? Because you said the fuel source was to be a father. Is it the fact that we can all connect with something higher than ourselves? Is that really what a sustainable fuel source can be? Or what do you think about that?

Yeah. No, I feel like that definitely can be. I feel like you don't have to be a father to feel the same feeling that I'm feeling. I think you do have to be connected to someone eventually, at some point in time. Doesn't have to be yourself forever. Like, I don't want to be the best person at loving myself, being alone for the rest of my life. Like, I think it's cool, it's important to love yourself, but I feel like connecting with someone gives you a higher purpose. Like, being in a relationship for me has tested me in so many other ways, versus being single, where it's kind of easy. I know how to navigate my life. I know what I like. I know what I don't like. I know what's going to upset me, what's not. Being in a relationship. It's tested, and that's where growth happens. And so I think you don't have to be a father or parent. You could be with someone and still serve other people without being a parent and developing those same characteristics like we're talking about.

Please forgive me, Drew, or anyone who's watching or listening right now, because what I want to share with Drew and then. And then ask Drew this next question. It's serious, and it might come off kind of harsh, but just bear with me, okay? We all need to wake the fuck up. And what I'm saying by that is, if you've been lacking in your spiritual development, you've been knowing that for years you're not loving your wife or your husband, you've been looking down at your belly, and you've been seeing it screaming out to you for attention. If you don't take control of this now, with all the onslaught of the additional stress that 2021 is going to bring, you are basically saying that you don't care. And apathy is one of the lowest human emotions. So everyone please Take a deep breath. It's okay. I'm not saying that you need to shame yourself. What I'm saying is wake the fuck up here. And that's not coming from my ego. That's coming from my heart. Like, now is the time to take a breath, pull back from the veil and see things for how they really are. Because we have been lied to in the fitness industry. We have been lied to by our parents, and we love them because they did the best they could. We have been lied to by college. We have been lied to. Drew. So thank you for bringing in this narrative of truth. And how do you believe this will Guide us in 2021 with everything you're doing with this journey, this back to.

Fit like you said.

Thank you for letting me speak.

No, and that's perfect because it ties in with my message of empathy. Mike. I'm on a mission to disrupt the fitness industry by leading with empathy first and a better understanding on the mental, emotional side so that people don't view physical transformation as this, you know, chore, this, this punishment that they have to go through because society accepts this, this belief or this myth that you have to look a certain way to be loved. My hope is that people will wake up. And I feel like we can do that by leading with empathy first. But empathy with boundaries, and some of those boundaries are going to be a kick in the butt every once in a while. And so I feel like there, there has to be that balance. It can't just be all one sided. It can't just be all mercy, no justice. There has to be a balance of both, in my opinion, to make that change. But it's gonna be, it's gonna happen with love. Like, we want people to take care of their physical health, not to look a certain way, not to get 5% body fat and to be skinny and lean. But for me, it helps people with their mental, emotional, spiritual wellbeing. And for me, it's. It's about that, the feeling of being healthy. That's what I miss the most right now, Josh, is the feeling of being physically healthy. Because I know that carries over into my mental health, emotional health, and spiritual health. And, and if people could just experience that for even five minutes, you know, I think they would get a taste of it and be like, okay, that's what I'm missing. It's not about the body, it's about the feeling of being healthy. Like your, your mind is sharp and clear all day long. You have good digestion, you're able to play with Your kids, your grandkids, you're able to go on a hike and see this beautiful world. You're able to travel without aches and pains. Like, there are so many benefits to taking care of your physical health outside of the looks of. And so that's what my hope is, is people will join me on the journey back to fit to learn just how to do this and operate out of a place of self love versus self hate. Because we all know after 2020, this world needs more of that. If people love themselves and had empathy, we would not have the divisiveness that we have today. So thank you for letting me come on, Josh, and share this with everyone, man.

I just. As we say goodbye here and as we part the waters, because I won't probably connect with you or see you until later this year. For people right now that are feeling hopeless, or maybe someone is looking down at their belly or looking at their spouse or they took an inventory drew, and they're literally defeated about where they begin. Besides just taking a big breath and looking at their situation like, how do they move forward? When someone feels completely and utterly decimated and just 2020 has just rocked people. 75 million Americans or more are now bankrupt. Suicide rates climbing. Like, shit's crazy. It's fucking crazy. What do we do besides that Deep breath, what would you advise?

Oh, man. So that's such a hard question. And I'll give you a quick answer as much as I can. First of all, for everyone listening that is, in that situation, I will remind you that you are worth it to keep fighting. Whether you believe me or not, you are worth it to keep fighting. The second thing is to find someone else to serve. There's nothing more that will get you out of that slump than making someone else happy. If you could find a way to serve other people, you'll realize that you're not in the worst situation. You'll realize, okay, go to a third world country. See what life is like outside of your situation. I'm not saying that's going to take away the pain, but it's going to help, you know, alleviate some of it. And the third thing is to find some type of purpose, whether it's your job, whether it's you as a parent, as a sibling, whatever. Find your purpose. Which means a lot of self reflection, a lot of meditation, a lot of journaling, a lot of getting out there talking to new people. And I feel like that's. That's one of the biggest things that people are missing is like, my purpose is to make money and pay the bills and then die. Nope. There's gotta be something bigger. There's gotta be something bigger than that. So those are my three tips.

Wow, man. Self worth. And at the bottom of that is love. And then having purpose and being of service to someone else. Big, huge bomb drops which people can go to fit2fat2fit.com back2fit. And those are all twos in there, and they can join you on the journey, man. So, you guys, if you do it, if you're feeling this in your belly, in your heart, in your stomach, just go join Drew. Like, you know he's doing it. You know, the hardest thing Drew to find in this world is authenticity. We get this word authenticity. It's thrown around by spiritual leaders that are full of shit. And I just want to say it's an honor to do a podcast with you and share your message with the Wellness Force community and with the world that's really in integrity. You know, people know just from what you've shared today, man, that you've actually walked the talk and you're doing it for a second time. So, man, as we say goodbye, just from my heart to yours, thank you so much. And if you could round us out before people. Click over to fit to fatofit.com backtofit Share with us how you see wellness now. You know, two years ago, I asked you, hey, Drew, how do you. How do you define wellness? Yeah, how would you define wellness now with the new knowledge you have?

Man, I think wellness for me starts with that self love and carries over into physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual wellness. It's that complete approach to transformation, not just in one of those areas only. It's all of those areas. That's where I see wellness.

Well, you heard it here. The truth on. So, Drew, thank you. And Josh, saying goodbye until Drew and I see you again really soon. We're both wishing you transformation, but also love and wellness. So we'll talk to you guys soon.

Thanks so much.