Erika Kraus | Health Freedom: Medical Cost Sharing & The Unsustainable Squeeze | Wellness Force

Look at your cost. Be financially responsible because it helps your mental health, it helps your spiritual health. They're all so connected. So rather than kind of opt out and then end up in an emergency or bankruptcy that has ripple effects on the next decade of your life, make proactive decisions and investments in your physical health like many of us are doing, and then also be responsible. Be ready. If something, something happen.

It. Erica, welcome to Wellness Force.

Hey there. I am so happy to be here today.

This is a profound topic and the timeliness of this could not be more perfect. I am having a child. He is going to be born maybe today, maybe next week, whatever it is. So this topic of cost sharing and health and how to cover myself, my family, it's huge. It is like the number one, number two thing on my consciousness. We're going to talk about so much today. We're going to cover a lot of ground in regards to what medical cost sharing is. This cash pay, really freedom system that I was so excited to learn about from James Maskell, who was connected to your company. He's been a guest on the show. So tell us in a few sentences, who are you and what do you do? Not necessarily Sedera, but just tell us about you, you know, your passion. Just a couple sentences about what you do for Sedera and who you are in the world.

Yeah, absolutely. My name is Erica Kraus. I am an Austinite. I've lived here around six years. Native Texan. Have been privileged to live a couple of places like west coast Seattle. Really enjoyed my time there and also internationally in Haiti post earthquake. I've had a diverse career, but I've always centered my career around organizations that are wanting to make an impact and do good and bring kind of more right systems and processes to things that are broken. And I was really excited to get to join the SIDERA team and become a Sidera member around three years ago. @ this point in my Sedera career journey, I lead brand strategy and get to work with wonderful people like you and other brands and other partners to help tell the world about this awesome solution that they may or may not know.

About. That's really cool. And I know you've been through your own personal health journeys as all of us. I mean, who doesn't, who doesn't go through their own personal health journeys? Like to be alive is to go through a health.

Journey.

Exactly. For people that don't know, my interest in this came from looking around at the traditional, I guess you could say insurance model. This is not insurance. And I want to go real big with that one. So everybody gets this. This is medical cost sharing. It's community sharing. And the picture I want to paint as a metaphor for our conversation is this. I noticed on YouTube there was someone from Sedera, and this is a cost sharing program. They gave a video, and the video metaphor was a community of people. I believe it was in maybe Thailand or somewhere in a tropical environment, and they were all moving a house together. And it was such a profound metaphor for our conversation because really, that's what this is. A lot of times people try to do things as the lone wolf, especially when it comes to, I guess you could say, caring for the family. Like, I'll just put money in my insurance provider's pocket, and then I'll cross my fingers and hope everything gets covered. That's not what moves a house. And we'll link this video so everybody can see this. There was probably 100 people. And just by putting the house, the foundation on their shoulders, everyone moved the house. They moved the entire house. And that house is our health. So for people that don't know what Sedera is with that metaphor, just share on a high level what Sedera.

Is. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I love that you shared that. We love showing that video because what we really think cost sharing is, is people helping people, right? We. No one wants to pay into something that's broken, but truly, most of us do want to do good things, and we want to help other people. And so what cost sharing allows you to do is actually put your money towards helping others and have this kind of amazing assurance that if something happens to you, like it might and probably will, you will have a life event or a health event. You've got people behind you to support you. So medical cost sharing is about sharing in the large and unexpected. We do have some primary and preventive things that are connected to our membership more to help you stay kind of on top of things. But for the most part, when you look at our guidelines, they're going to tell you that cost sharing is about the large and unexpected people contribute monthly. You get to set that contribution based on your budget and what's right for your lifestyle. And then you know from there, hey, if something was going to happen to me, this is what I would pay. This is my portion that I'm going to invest first. And then the community is going to jump in to share. We're able to facilitate this. An amazing technology platform that kind of facilitates the sharing process. Where I might be in Austin, like You and some other friends and like down the street are also Cedara members. I love that some of my friends are Cedara members. And you know, there's Cedara members in Colorado and Florida and North Carolina. So if a medical event was to happen to me, dollars could be moved from members accounts through our technology platform to help me from there. I'm going to go pay my doctor myself. So we stay out of kind of the whole financial transaction and empower you to be in control, in charge, but also really.

Supported. Wow, that's so powerful because truly what we all want is freedom. We want freedom, we want flexibility. And this medical cost sharing, it really unlocks this. It truly imbues the freedom and flexibility that I think when, I guess you could say even insurance started. And I want to be clear, this is not insurance. This is like community gathering here where we're at the fire while sharing money. And when people need help, they get help. And when you don't need help, when you want to be preventative, you go do sauna, you go do cold therapy, you go to the gym, you take care of oneself. So this Sedera really network, it reminds me of how we were designed. You know, back in the day, hundreds of years ago, we would gather as a community, as a society, health insurance cost sharing didn't exist. And so really this model of sharing is the freedom and flexibility that we used to have when we would gather around the fire and say, hey, who in the community broke their leg? Who in the community is birthing a child? Who in the community really needs the deepest amount of help? And really what this is and why I was burning a fire to get you on the show was because finally, this is like the non insurance solution to manage these incredibly large healthcare costs. As we dig into the conversation now, what are some of the ways that Sedera really helps people on a practical level? Let's just go practical first. Yeah, I know, we'll get into the nuts and bolts of, you know, what's shareable, what's not shareable, answer some of the people's questions from the community. But on a practical level, just if someone's first learning about cost sharing, just unpack that a little bit. Cost sharing and the freedom and the flexibility of.

That. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I love what you just said because the big deal is how do we get back to basics? How do we have that freedom and flexibility? And a lot of it is really bringing the doctor and patient relationship back together. So if I were to say we bring anything to the table, it's that you get to be in charge of your health and you get to have an unfettered relationship with your provider, your doctor, which is really cool, right? Because if I'm, you know, going to my doctor and I don't know what things cost and I don't know kind of what all my options are, he's just, I'm gonna hand a card, I'm gonna abdicate responsibility. He's gonna run whatever labs he thinks, and then I'm gonna get whatever result I will. The difference is when I'm a cash pay patient, a medical cost sharing member, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna have really intentional conversation. It's gonna be mutual. I talked to a week and North Carolina, and he said, you know, he's probably late 40s. And he was like, I have had insurance most of my life, and for the first time in the last year, as I've been a medical cost sharing member, I sat down with my doctor. They went line by line by everything because they knew I was a cash pay patient. We had a mutual conversation. We worked out, yeah, you know what? I probably don't need that. Or, let's wait, let's do that. Two months later, we made intentional decisions that were right for me. So beyond the freedom and flexibility, it's agency, it's engagement. It's being kind of from out from behind the. I don't really know what's going on into, like, I'm empowered with all the insights and the knowledge, and I get to make the best decision. So if we give anybody anything, it is that restored relationship, that that unfettered opportunity to be directly in charge of your cost and choices and still experience, like, what you said that, like, neighbor to neighbor, people to people experience, which we are so hungry for everybody. I think more than ever, we're hungry to cut all the extra. If anything, last year taught us it's like, man, who are your people? How do you simplify what's on the table that doesn't need to be? I've talked to so many businesses and friends who had a kind of like, awakening last year. Like, okay, what do I really want in my life? And I think what this allows you to do is to kind of choose those things and have a lot of agency in.

It. I love that you talked about awakening because we're all making really, really hard choices depending on where we were in 2020, like finance, job, career. I think it was a beautiful gift. Now, I don't think sometimes gifts are Easy to unwrap because last year was challenging fundamentally, I think to all human beings across the planet. Yet there is always something powerful and beautiful that comes from challenge and hardship. And really what I think has come from it is community and community based solutions where we're reconnecting to the nature of who we are. Just a quick story as we dig into the conversation more. I got back from a 10 day vision quest and four days of those vision quests, you're fasting in nature with no food. Like all you have, Erica, is water, no fire.

Yeah. So no coffee. No.

Coffee. No coffee, no food. So 100 hours of fasting in nature. And you know what the biggest part of this was for me because I've had a lot of anger, I've had a lot of resentment towards the insurance pyramid. Insurance, pharmaceutical. I mean, we're not here to paint the light of what people already know. People already know the absolute heinous activity and the pain that these industries cause. But you know what message came through? I was laying there and I was looking up at the sky and I just got this message like less anger, more truth. Less anger and more truth. I love that. The truth is we're all community and the best thing we can do right now is exit systems that aren't necessarily serving us anymore or aren't directly serving us anymore and return back to this community based model. So why are costs out of control? What even makes that happen?

Right. Yeah, you are leading straight into that. Totally. Well, one of the things you were saying about community earlier and I just wanted to hit on was you brought forth this idea that hey, we take care of ourselves and we take care of one another. It's a both and right. You can't go to a community like, hey, what am I going to get? That's not community. And you don't also like, we have to prioritize taking care of ourselves. And I think that mutuality is so, so important and community allows us to have that and kind of this year allowed us to kind of get back to that in some fresh ways. But yeah, when you're talking about why are we here, a lot of it is that we have a price transparency problem that is everywhere in the news right now. No, I didn't say anything shocking. But when there's not transparency when it comes to your costs, when you actually do not know what you are paying for, you don't know the end cost, I might go and say, hey, I need this surgery. But if I don't actually know what that cost Is there's no accountability and there's so much room for waste to get built in. No one knows. So there's these amazing surgery centers that are popping up across the country. I'm looking at potentially needing a surgery soon. So I've been digging in deep. I've known about them for years. But what's so cool about them is rather than go to my doctor and be like, oh my gosh, I need this surgery. And they're like, okay, give me your card. Then I get my card and I have no idea what's going to happen from there. I think my deductible is X. But then I still might get all these bills that weren't covered. So there's a lot of mystery, which makes my decision making even around where I go get my surgery really muddled. I'm not able to really look at the reviews and navigate, okay, is this the best cost for this value? I don't know what it really costs, but when you know what things really cost, when there is pricing transparency, I'm able to look at. So now I'm looking at these different surgery centers. I'm saying, hey, I want your real cost for this. I'm like, okay, this one's this thousand, this thousand, this thousand. This one has the best reviews and the best price. And my friend said she went there. Great. I'm doing that. That's what shopping should be about. We're making real decisions. So we have this huge problem because there's so much administrative waste built in and no one really knows what things cost. That's a simple way to get into it, obviously, just like you were saying. And valid room for anger is pharmaceuticals. Insurers and hospitals benefit from keeping their prices secret. So whoever can flex the largest muscle wins. And you know, all these contracts are moving around, but like, who really knows? So when I would call, like if I had insurance, I would call and there's some really cool videos about this on the Internet, like of people actually practicing this. They're calling, they're like, hey, I need to get this surgery. How much is it going to cost? And they'll be like, hey, I don't know. Hold on. You don't know how much it costs? What do you mean you don't.

Know how much that a hospital is a business, It's a for profit.

Entity. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So there's not us sitting around the fire.

Anymore. Right. So why costs are out of control. We've got incredible amount of waste. We've got a system that's Built on waste. And we've got patients and consumers who need to get back engaged. We're used to leaning back as opposed to leaning in. We're used to saying, oh, here's my car, whatever. I don't really know. I don't have any control. Someone else is telling me where to go. I mean we have people who are members for the first time. And I remember feeling like this. I was like, oh no, they're not going to give me a list of where to go. And it was like. But then as you get into it, you're like, oh my gosh, how cool. I'm going to like get on the Internet like I would about getting a haircut. I need a haircut right now. It's been way too long. And I'm going to. I've asked all my friends, I've gone on the Internet, I've looked at reviews. I'm probably going to look at cost a little bit, but might invest a little bit more because it's been Covid right. But I'm going to make a choice that's right for me based on what I see. So we need patients to get and members to get back involved, kind of retake back that agency to make decisions and enjoy that freedom and.

Flexibility. I love you're talking about leaning back versus leaning in. That's another beautiful metaphor. As we contrast the first metaphor which is, hey, if everyone puts a house on their shoulders, a community can move single houses at a time. Yes. And those single houses represent a broken leg, an emergency event. Like all these things that like you say when people enter the system that currently is that the majority of people engage in. There's so much price hiding and really price gouging. Every industry have this. It's not just exclusive to.

Healthcare. No.

Way. There's a lot of industries and you guys would be so shocked. This totally relates. Erica, my buddy used to be in the Navy and he told me that sometimes they would charge for like a little washer on a boat. They would charge $500 for a basic silver washer. That exact same gouging exists because there is a backdoor relationship with the people that make the products and the people that buy the products and the engagement of the really broken system that we're all playing in. So outside of that system, here we are back around the fire again. This high level overview of us sitting at the fire. What does it look like for an average person that wants to have a child, that wants to take care of that broken leg, that wants to do Something that's, you know, emergency based. Like you have a term that's called shareable. And I love that because shareable costs are different than like, hey, what's covered? It's like, well, we cover ourselves in life, but sometimes when things happen and we're in that old community gathering around the fire, we have to share the load. This is a return to that community engagement. So walk us through something practical, you know, an example of how this is a high.

Level. Yeah, I love how you frame that. It's the both. And again, it's like, yeah, I'm going to take responsibility for my day to day stuff. I'm going to make great choices, invest in that. But when these large unexpected things happen, or a baby, we're there. It's that community. My friend just had a baby. I'm obsessed with her. Her name's Eleanor. Of course, I was over there with snacks and food and hugs and what do you need? I'm there. So that's what we want this to feel like. We love reaching out to our members when they have babies and we're really proud of our matur sharing. This is community. I love how you frame that. And so what it really is about is being there for the large and unexpected. And an example might be. And this actually happened. It's not my story, but it is my friend's story. But she was running on the trail downtown Austin, Lady Bird Lake. And a dog ran out in front of her. As one does. There's this one section, there's all these dogs. If you've been to Austin, you've run this trail. You know exactly what I'm talking.

About.

It's. It's mayhem. Dog runs out in front of her. She trips and she's like, oh, my goodness. Well, she goes to the urgent care, thinks it's a scrape and a bruise. Nope, it's not. It's a lot more. So pretend that happens. And then you end up there like, hey, I am so sorry. You actually need surgery. It ended up pulling something. We're gonna have to repair this. So it started out as like, oh my gosh, I'm going to urgent care. Maybe it's 150 bucks has now bubbled into the thousands. You need surgery, you need physical therapy. Wow, that has become an event for you. And so for me, my initial unshareable amount, I contribute a certain amount monthly. So now my initial unshareable amount, which is the amount I pay before the community kicks in, it's what basically I can bear. So my Initial insurable amount might be $1500, right? That's the amount I've said. Hey, if something big happens, that's kind of what I can bear. So I'm going to pay in monthly. I'll pay in 1,500. When something big happens, the community is going to kick in for the rest. In the case of this tripping over dog surgery, physical therapy, we're now in thousands and thousands of dollars. I pay my 1,500 and through our technology, money is moved from member to member to help me with all the rest. What's cool about that is that I can know in my worst year. Let's say I have need number one, I trip over a dog. Need number two, I'm in the hospital with pneumonia. Need number three, somehow I have a baby that year. Wow, what a year, right? I can map out my max that year is $4,500. Because I know I'm going to contribute monthly, so I know my monthly cost. And then I know what's going to happen when the big stuff happens. So I can plan, I can feel in control, but I also don't feel like I'm out on an.

Island. I love this. And you talked about things that happen that are catastrophes, like running over a poodle on a trail. But what about the ways that we are preventatively caring for self? Because some of these things are shareable. Right? And some aren't. Just like when we were in a tribe around the fire, if somebody in the tribe wanted to do sweater, well, that would be different than if they broke their leg. So some of these things for health we really get to take ownership of. And that's what this show is all about. You know, we're at the nexus of this physical, emotional, spiritual, mental, and also financial. You know, that's the fifth part of the quadrant in this holistic lens that I've learned from so many teachers and masters. But in the middle of that, there is. Maybe you can talk about this the way that we're proactive about health and how that's shared to self and to others and then the way that other things happen. And like you gave an example of. So unpack that a little bit. Because a lot of people ask, like, what's shareable, what's not.

Shareable? Totally. That's obviously the most important question when you're making a decision and you should be thoughtful about those things. We like to say we are an amazing fit for eight or nine out of 10 people. Sometimes we're not the right fit. For you right now, and that's totally fine. And it's important for you to know by looking at the guidelines and understanding about medical cost sharing, if we're your right option. But as far as, like, preventive and primary care, we're all in. I mean, we're a healthy lifestyle community. We want you to be rewarded for living a healthy lifestyle. What people say to me all the time is, hey, I actually never go to the doctor. Like, I don't, but every now and then I do, and when I do, I want to have something for that. And what I would say is, well, actually, what if you were a medical cost sharing member and you know that your costs are going to be lower monthly because you're not paying into all the extra, you're paying for what you need. So I'm going to pay to invest in a community and that community is in turn going to be there for me. But for the primary and preventive, I am going to rock and roll on my own because I've saved money monthly and I'm going to invest in my primary preventive care because I care and I do that. I have a lot of awesome people around me. You mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that I have some health challenges. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder five to six years ago when I was looking at becoming a Sidera member. I obviously thought about that a lot because my health is super important to me. I'm generally in remission. I'm doing really great, and it's because I invest in all those.

Things. Was it Hashimoto's or which.

One? Yeah.

Hashimoto's. That's on the incline because of the amount of stress we're all experiencing we have both environmentally and emotionally. So it's not like it doesn't surprise me that you said that. And how beautiful are you in a space where that can be supported? So.

Please. Yeah, no, absolutely. So, you know, I'm thinking like, oh, my goodness, I probably, you know, I spend to take care of my health and I want to make sure that if it ever gets out of control or something, you know, goes a little more sideways, that the community's there. Well, that is something I came into the community with. So my first year, my labs and stuff related to Hashimoto's weren't shareable because I needed to start contributing before I just come in with all my bills. That being said, I can map those costs out. I know what my doctor visits cost, I know what my lab visit costs. And as a Cash pay patient. I'm reducing those costs more than ever because I'm calling around, I'm looking on Goodrx for my prescriptions. I'm calling about my doctor visits so I can say, hey, you know what, I need about four doctor visits a year to maintain this well, so let's say that's around six, you know, 600 bucks. So I mapped that out and then I was like, oh well, what about my medication? Well, I learned that I can actually shop for medications. There's awesome tools like Goodrx or at Sidero, we have an incredible RX marketplace that helps people shop for the best prices and then make the best decision for them. So I got on there. I'll never forget the first time I was driving through the drive thru at the pharmacy and I said, hey, actually I have a discount code and it was cut by 50% and I literally felt like a million bucks. And I was like, this is so much more worth it to me to manage my primary costs or my costs related to a pre X. I was still able to do that because I mapped out, all right, I've got about 15 bucks a month, I've got about 600 a year. And then you add it all up, I'm still doing way, way better than I've ever done financially. So we want people to actually look at those costs. When you're thinking about, I came in with a pre existing condition. Now in my second, there's a graduated sharing schedule. I've been investing in the community. Now my costs related to my preexisting condition are shareable up to 25,000 and then the next year it goes up even more. So over time, as you're investing in the community, your costs are shareable. That being said, I don't spend enough on that to actually get into that threshold where I need a lot of the community because I'm managing that responsibly through my own being a savvy consumer. But when we're talking, you know, we're talking about me having a condition, when we're talking actually about primary and preventive stuff, we want to share your mammograms and colonoscopies once you hit a certain age because that's good for the community, right? You're taking responsibility, you're staying on top of those things and you're catching things early if you need to, we're there for that. But a lot of primary and preventive things and you know, naturopathic things or things that I'm investing in to like all my smoothie powders and this, that and the other, my vitamins, I'm buying on my own. But I've saved money monthly and I've set aside monthly to manage that. Now I am a part of something that's a little bit different for primary care. I don't know if any of you guys have heard of this, but it's called direct primary care. And this is another not insurance solution. It's a monthly membership. And I know that I pay monthly for this. I didn't do this at first when I came on side air. And then I fell in love with this model and I was like, oh, my gosh, these doctors are there for your whole health, just like you were describing. They're going to look at everything, your emotional health, your physical health, your financial health, and help you make the best decision. So I've got a quarterback for my care using a sports analogy, or I've got like a sensei. I've got someone in my corner who's like there for it. I've got a coach. And you know, because. So there loves this model of care. We do give a discount. So that reduces the cost of my membership because I'm investing that much in my primary care. So that's a broad stroke of like, what is it like if you have a condition? What do we really share and not share? We're not as much there for the primary preventive. We're gonna send you other.

Directions. Yeah. But you know what's interesting is your model is so much more spacious than the traditional insurance model. And again, I'm gonna say it the fourth time. This is not insurance. Insurance. I love it. If you even think about what insurance is, if you look at the etymology of the word insurance, it's to insure. It's like when you tip somebody at a table. Tips aren't something that are expected. Tips are to ensure promptness. That's what a tip is. So when I go to a table and the waitress or the waiter is like a jerk, I'm not gonna tip them as much, you know? Cause.

We'Re. Yeah, it's.

Accountability. Yeah. There's less reciprocity there. So. So shareable costs, mental health, that's curative surgery, that's elective. And emergency maternity injuries and hospital care. And there's some selective naturopath therapies for curative health to help people navigate that world. They're in there too. But like you said, there's a difference between. And I want to go into this a little bit more just because it's so exciting to me to be able to and for everyone to know I'm signing up for this personally myself. This is something that myself and my son and our family and my lady, we're all going to have because we take care of ourselves. We are proactive first. And then we have something just in case, you know, heaven forbid, car accident, knee surgery, maybe I'm lifting weight and I hurt my back. I don't.

Know. Like, exactly. Perfect examples. You will never believe how many ladder accidents we have come through. You're like, hopefully everybody's being careful, but you never know. You're doing your normal life and things happen, and it's amazing to know you got people for that. Yeah.

Yeah. The latter analogy is cool because we're not trained to balance in life. We're not trained in high school how to manage our emotional health, how to manage our finances even. And you better believe, Erica, that we are not trained by any of the educational models how to truly manage our health and the care of our own health. It's just not something that we learn. Everyone falls into the same cog in the wheel approach of, I'll get the traditional thing, I'll pay for it, and I'll cross my fingers, but with this, you don't or you don't, and you're risking there's something.

Different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, one thing I was going to mention is the other thing I'm hearing more than ever right now is I'm just not doing anything. And I think it's because a lot of people's jobs are changing, their worldview's.

Changing. Like, they're having no coverage at.

All. They're, like, opting for nothing. And what we want to say is, oh, my goodness, there is another way where you can be rewarded for your healthy lifestyle. You're not paying. Why would I pay 500amonth to go to the doctor two times a year? You know, like, that's so many people's world. And then if something big happened, it's still $8,000. So I think to be able to map your costs, we're really big on that. We're like, look at your cost. Be financially responsible because it helps your mental health, it helps your spiritual health. They're all so conn. And so rather than kind of opt out and then end up in an emergency or bankruptcy, that has ripple effects on the next decade of your life, make proactive decisions and investments in your physical health, like many of us are doing, and then also be responsible. Be ready if something, something.

Happens. Yeah, I had a couple other companies. I'm not going to share them because honestly, this is the best that I found with Sidera. But they reached out to me and they're like, hey, your audience is health and fitness minded and they're wellness minded. So we want to come in and we want to give them all these savings. And Erica, when I really dug into what they were providing, it wasn't cost sharing. It was actually just like discounted regular insurance. But we all know where that road leads. So I want to unpack a couple numbers and then I want to share about the savings for the family. Because in the video we linked in the show notes, you talked about your speaker from your company. In 2008, wages increased 19%, but the premiums increase 55%. But here's the big one, the employees portion of the premium since 2008, 70% increase. This is what you call the unsustainable.

Squeeze.

Exactly. So this current spike on the graph here, something has to.

Change.

Totally. That's why we're here with the community.

Conversation. Oh my gosh. If you're staying in that model, it's unsustainable. Our salaries are not matching the inflation that's present in that, in that world. And so the only way to really dig your way out is to step out of that entire situation and say, okay, you know what, I actually do know how to manage costs. I manage my budget in all these other ways. I know how to shop for things. I shop for oil changes, haircuts, a new guitar. We know how to shop. Americans do for sure. So why don't we use our superpower a little bit more? Why don't we get engaged and take responsibility while really making smart financial choices? And we'd love to say that to people. You can be smart financially and not hold on to the security of this card. And you can be smart in your health and not hold onto the security of the.

Card. Yeah. So every year families spend literally hundreds of millions of dollars across the country just paying an old model, this new model. What's the annual savings of traditional family when they join? A really experience. That's what this is. It's a healthcare experience, this cost sharing model. Most people don't know what this is. So this is the first time we've ever really talked about this on the.

Podcast.

Right. What's that, what's that look like from a numbers perspective on annual savings for a family when they do an experience like cost.

Sharing? Yeah, you know, it really depends. Are they Moving from the insurance model to cost sharing, or are they going from zero to nothing? You know, I mean, zero to something, but. But if I were to move right now, if I were to go on the exchange, buy a plan versus saying, hey, I'm going to do cost sharing, I would be saving 30 to 50% a year. It really just depends on where you're sitting, what age you are, what's going on in your health. But that's incredible. Right? They're not the same. Right. So you really do need to map your expenses. Like I said. I sat down and said, okay, what do I need to spend to be healthy in my primary and preventive care? There, that's that bucket. Now what am I? What can I spend monthly to invest in, like, the large and unexpected? Okay, that's that bucket. If I add that up and then I look at what it used to be in the traditional model, easily I'm going to save 30 to 50%. Sometimes you don't. It just depends. Again, like, you know what's going on. But we encourage people. We're not going to like, say, you know, it's blanket. Everybody has a unique story and a unique health history, but, you know, that's kind of the.

Average. Cool. And the major benefits for me are number one, like affordable monthly costs. But the big one, too is this 24. 7 telemedicine. So we all have this. I'm holding up the phone for y' all on itunes, but if you're on YouTube, like, you know, you're probably watching this on your.

Phone.

Yep. The phone is with us all the time. So wouldn't it make perfect sense that we could, like, if we did need some care, that we would just use our phone instead of having to burn gas, go to the building. The physician has to be in there, in the building. There's so many ways that technology can make it easier for us. Can you talk about the 24. 7 telemedicine aspect of this? Because that's a total game.

Changer. Totally. We've brought in a partner to make telemedicine available. Is connected to our membership. And we think it's so important because, again, if you're leading a healthy lifestyle and you're not going to the doctor that much, you might do your annual checkup, your annual wellness exam, which, by the way, is shareable, but you might do that, but you're like, hey, I'm probably not going to go many more times. Well, then strep. All of a sudden you've got strep. And you're like, oh, my goodness. Or you're fighting. It's cedar fever in Austin, and you're losing your mind, and you don't normally have allergies, and you need support. You don't need to leave your house. Telemedicine is there for you. If we learned anything in Covid, we've got to have more virtual resources. So telemedicine 24 7. This has happened to me so many times. Prior to me joining this direct primary care membership that I mentioned, when those things happen. I just got on my phone, literally within minutes, a doctor called me. I had what I need. I never left my house, and I didn't have any additional expenses. It was incredible. If you don't have anything and you're still kind of starting to build into, hey, I'm investing in my health. You want to have something for the large unexpected because you can't afford for the huge, scary stuff. Right. But you also want to make sure you have some virtual relationship with someone who can help you in those, like, kind of random, random things that happen. And luckily, it's already built in with medical cost.

Sharing. I love that, that the annual wellness is covered, too. And not covered, actually. I mean, that's an old term. Yeah, covered is.

What. We don't say that. We don't say.

That. But it's so easy for us to think that way, because I have been conditioned, and we all have been conditioned. Like, hey, what's covered? What's not covered? Totally leaving the responsibility and the power, really, the disempowerment of that. Of that wording. Hey, can I go to the. Can I pray to the Ivory Tower and go, please tell me what's covered and what's not covered? Nah, it's not like that anymore. What is actually shared in the community and what's not shared? So isn't that interesting that there's that word and it's. And it's. I'm not judging myself. We're all doing the best we can, but so many of us fall into that trap. So with the holistic lens, if I'm looking at a family, you know, like, my son's gonna come soon, so I'm looking at my family through this lens of holistic wellness. How does Sedera help a family like mine live our lives through this holistic.

Lens? Yeah, I love that question. You know, we've been kind of leaning into this idea that your financial health is part of your health overall, and so is emotional and physical. And we believe you should not have to Say, hey, I might have financial health, but not physical health, because I got to keep my budget down. Or I can have physical health but not financial health. We believe you can have both. And there's people who fall into a place where they need more systems and more support. And we luckily do have systems to support people in that position. But for a lot of us who are like, I'm just trying to balance my budget, like, I'm trying to figure this out, we want to help you be financially and physically healthy. So a few things we do. Number one, we're a community. We're really building on this right now. But we're in the middle of right now a water challenge, like, all committing to drink a certain amount of water a day. So we do challenges as a community. Sometimes we'll do virtual, you know, runs and. Or like, we did a 5k in Austin. So we do things together. Even as a staff, we do workouts all the time. That's just us trying to live out into our values, but also promote them to our members and saying, hey, it matters. Let's all take responsibility and dig in. So there's just kind of the community support, but then there's also really, it's about education, empowerment. So we want people to know how to shop for their cost. We want people, I mean, shop for their care. We want people to be able to look square in the eye of all the options and say, this one's right for me. And I know it's right for me because it was actually high value at the right. It was like, high value at the right cost. And I'm thinking about the community still, right? Like, I'm still thinking, hey, I don't need the $30,000 surgery just because that doctor's name is beside it. This one has better reviews, and it's actually 15,000. So for the benefit of myself and the community, I'm going to choose the 15,000. So it's having a holistic lens. We want to teach you how to shop to your point that you just made. Most people have forgotten how. Most people when it comes to healthcare, are used to being like, oh, I don't.

Know. It's total.

Disempowerment. It's disempowerment. And so we want those aha moments to happen. Like when I drove through the drive through to pick up my natural thyroid medication, it was like, oh, my gosh, I just did that. That was so cool. We want you to have that experience on repeat. And so we are constantly, through our communication tools, videos Resources helping members learn how to do that. And it is a lift, right, because everybody's coming from years and years and truly decades of believing there was only one way to do this. So we're in this huge moment right now where we're needing to re educate across the nation. Hey, you can shop for care, you can be in charge. You do have freedom and flexibility. And so education is a huge part. And then, and then the other thing is just our team is so supportive. One of our core values that we call the cornerstone value is rooted in love. And we believe that if we are going to be a community, love has to be central. And I know that sounds super.

Squishy. No, you're talking to the right kind of people. Love is all there is.

Truly. Yeah. It's like if everything we're doing is not rooted in love, then what are we doing here? So when members call, they're going to have someone on the other line that's like, hey, what are you going through? And they're like, I'm so confused. I can't figure out the guidelines. I don't know what to do. No worries, let me walk you through that. So I would say one of the most important things we have is our member experience team and our needs coordinating team. Because we think that the worst moments in your life should not be met with phone calls not answered, being routed to 20 different people, being treated like a number. We believe that you need to be most in your humanity in that moment and feel the support of people around you. So love is central. So when we talk about holistic, we want to treat people with love and care. Our, our guidelines are set up to say yes. So you know what's in the guidelines. Right. So as you're looking to join Josh, you're going to be like, I know what's in the guidelines. So you know, we're going to say yes to you because we are like, rather than try to route you 20 directions so you don't actually fulfill your claim, we're going to be like, heck yeah. We're with Josh right now in this moment, coming around him and supporting him in any way we can. So when it comes to holistic care, I would say education, empowerment, being a community and encouraging each other on healthy lifestyle. And then also, you know, really being, treating people with care and kind.

Of coming around each other, treating people like people, which is what a lot of is spoken about in the traditional model. But it's really just marketing babble. It's not really backed up. And one Thing I know that I was excited to see, like, I was digging in before our interview today. The Sedera ethical beliefs and principles. There's 10 of them, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna shout out my first one, which is the most important. We share a faith in each other and in the strength of our community. Like, let that be enough right there, where, you know, faith in one another and the strength of community involves people not just wanting handouts, people not wanting to take advantage of situations, people not wanting to just take, take, and not give. This is truly, like a reciprocal. There's reciprocity here in these ethical beliefs and the principles of the community, which is truly how we're designed. And I think, and I promise I'll ask you a question here, but I really have to unpack this for everyone. I think and feel what's most important right now is that we don't approach our health, our wellness, or what we're doing from a take mentality, from a scarcity mentality. How do I get what's best for me, my family, and screw everyone else. Else? Let's be honest. We've all felt that at times. Oh, man, we're human beings. But the evolution that's happening and how. I would love for you to expand upon this number one ethical principle, really, what's happening is we're in an emotional intelligence transformation. We're all knowing that we are connected, that love is truly important, and that the only way we can be loving is to give without always expecting something in return. So contrast that with this number one ethical belief that everyone joins in this tribe around the fire at.

Sedera. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I love that we have people sign those because we want you to know you're actually joining something you're participating in. We're not looking. So if you're. We say this all the time. If you're like, hey, I actually really don't want anything to do with my health and I want to just hand over a card. Probably not the right sideroom member. Yeah, just not. We're just not. For you, it's fine. But if you are like, man, I care about my health and I care about people, and I'm ready to get in the game and participate. This is one of the most brilliant things you could be a part of. It's so cool to, number one, find out information you had no idea about and be like, I know how to do this, and what an amazing conversation I just had with my doctor for the first time. And I love that I know that my dollars are going to people in need, and I'm hearing their stories and. And I feel like we're lifting each other's burdens. We're lifting that house together. It's just we have people sign those things, and not just because we have all this legal situation going.

On. There is kind of a lot of legal, though. Even in our conversation today, we have to be cautious about stepping on toes of the traditional system, which brings me a little bit of.

Upsetting. Oh, yeah, the system's big.

Man. We can't even talk about certain things because then you guys will get sued. It's.

Ridiculous. I don't know what would happen. I don't know what would happen. But we are, you know, we're building a new ecosystem. And what that means is that there's opposition. And some of that opposition is mindset, if not most of that opposition is mindset. It's being in a rut, and it's a faulty mindset that you just alluded to, which is, I'm here to take. I paid for this. I deserve it. Like, I remember a time I was like, yeah, that's what insurance is for. And I just kept getting more and more services because I was like, yeah, that's what insurance is for. Well, in this world, we would say quite the opposite. We would say, hey, you're in charge. I'm investing. I think I shared this with you not long ago, but I'm about to reinvest in my mental health and jump back into therapy. There's a lot going on in my life right now, and I'm making that investment. Right. I'm also investing in my physical health, like I do. I have Hashimoto's. I have to put a lot more attention on things than, like, my friend across the street. But I'm investing because I care, because I want to be the best I can be for myself and the people around me. And I'm also, like, thrilled beyond belief that if something huge happens, which I'm about to go through another medical need, that the community's there for me. It's just that principle and commitment is really rad, and we ask people to actually commit. Like, hey, I'm going to invest in my own health, because I can't remember our exact wording for that. But, like, we want you to commit to that because you're putting skin in the game. You're participating. We ask people to commit to being engaged in their healthcare choices and shopping. Why? Because we have the opportunity to help one another maintain and lower our costs. How cool is that? How cool is it that I can not only support your physical wellbeing by being a part of this community, but when you join, I'm supporting your financial health by doing my part to keep costs.

Low. And the beauty of this is in number nine, I promised I wasn't going to say any more of the values, but like, this one's big too. I'm not going to list all of them, but number nine is we believe we have a fundamental right guaranteed by the US Constitution. People forget that the Constitution supersedes everything to freely associate in the lawful exercise of our common beliefs, to voluntarily share healthcare expenses with one another. It's a deep breath earth. It's a 30,000 foot view of us here on planet Earth. We are not living on the earth. You and I are nature and I've talked about this a lot. We're nature. We come from our Mother Earth. We've become so disconnected from her. This in a way is taking the way that we must associate with money because money's a part of the 3D world and bringing us back to a way where we can actually participate in community. So we covered a lot of ground. Do you have anything else that you'd like to share about the community aspect and how this is a totally different approach than traditional insurance? This is a share versus to insure. So do you have anything else or did we pretty much cover it? Pretty.

Much. Oh man, we did. We did a good job, I think. I love this audience and as I've kind of gotten to know your community here more, I love talking to this audience because I feel like I'm a part of you and you would get a lot what we're talking about here because it's incredible to support one another. We want it to be about people helping people. We want it to be getting back to basics. That fire, that fire experience, that lifting of one another's burdens. And we also. The one thing I want to say that it's about community, right? But it's about being a change making community. It's about building that new ecosystem. There need to be more options. We have been stuck for too many decades. Here we are in a cycle of wash, rinse and repeat. And we need to, like you said, take a deep breath and say, what can I do? And I think what I want to say to this community is even if you don't choose to join Sedera, you have other situations going on and we're not at this moment in time. The community for you still, let's all get engaged in our healthcare. Let's get engaged in asking for price transparency. Let's be people who are shifting the system as a broader community. I mean, our sidera community piece of all these communities across the nation that really do care. And so we all have this opportunity to move the needle forward in the conversation. We are hurting in America. Businesses are struggling when it comes to, like this conversation. Individuals and families are struggling. We are way down by waste. And regardless of whether you join a medical cost sharing community or direct primary care, you can shop for your healthcare, you can shop for your prescriptions, you can ask for price transparency, and you can also be a community member in your own neighborhood and lead a healthy lifestyle, be personally responsible and get back engaged. So I think that would be my big, like, what I would say is even Sedara is a part of a larger community and a larger ecosystem. And if you're curious, there are tons of resources out there to learn about that. From the free market surgery centers to the direct primary care movement, there's a world emerging that is kind of answering back to the system and the status quo was something really.

Rad. And the phrase that comes up for me in this whole conversation, just like in every industry that's happening right now is everything that's not serving and not part of that loving solutions community is being burned to the ground either quickly or slowly. You look at education, you look at transportation, you look at health care, everything that's not serving the community is slowly or even quickly being burned to the ground. And I love it because I'm warming my hands on the fire of progress.

Really. Like, I love.

That. I'm excited about this. So. So in this conversation I want to go practical. And then we'll wrap this up and say goodbye and give people a starting place to go to where they can re engage in cost sharing and be part of a true community instead of just shelling out money and crossing their fingers. But I want to go real practical for everyone. Like if, if you're dealing with something right now and you're stressed out about your finances and maybe it's even a struggle for you to buy supplements because you're shelling out a bunch of money in areas of your life that doesn't make sense, take an honest look, just look in the mirror and just take an honest look about where's my money going. A lot of people are scared, Erica, to even look at their profit and loss.

Personally. Oh my.

Gosh. It's like I don't Even want to look at my bank account because. And I've been there, I've been there and I want to say for my heart to you guys here. And I got like a full body chill just feeling this right now. Now just be honest, just look in the mirror, just understand where the money's going out, where the money's coming in, and then from that place, from that spaciousness, then make an honest decision. If community sharing is a viable option for you, and I will say, nine times out of 10, it's probably going to be the best option. I mean, it's where I'm going for sure. So with that pulse and with that frame, if you could wave a wand, if you could change the health experience world, what is the solution that you would bring and what would you want to see changed? Right. Magic.

Wand. I let in and this is, I let into this a little bit, but it's really awareness. People just don't know. They don't know that there are options. They don't know that they can shop for their care. And they do feel like this is the only way. So I think awareness is the biggest magic wand I could wave. We're doing that right now. We're talking about these options and these other solutions. The other thing is more and more price transparency tools and resources. We need to know what our costs are. When we know what our costs are. Whether you're part of a medical cost sharing community or not, you are empowered to make the right decision. And so we're seeing more and more emerge in the marketplace. But I want to see those more globally utilized. You're even seeing them on kind of, you know, you're seeing systems pop up on Amazon Marketplace or Walmart, like clinics where you see your prices ahead of time. That needs to be happening on repeat. We need more encouragement there. People need to know what the costs are. They need to be able to make choices that are right for them. So I would say it's mostly centered around, you know, members taking members, gaining awareness, not members globally. As a, as a community, we're gaining more awareness that there are options and that we can get back involved and then also more tools to encourage price transparency. It's so important, it's critical to us all kind of getting back in the game when it comes to our healthcare code costs and.

Choices. A lot of what I heard from you right now was, you know, when there's transparency, there's less effort being wasted. When there's lack of transparency, we're all holding up a mask. We're trying to hide. We're not really being honest about everything. And that's the general ecosystem that we're talking about here is just, can we just calm down and just be.

Honest?

Yeah. Can we just be honest about what's the current state of us, our health and the world? And that is the big question that leads us to the goodbye question and really what I love asking everyone because we all sit at the middle of this and it's wellness, you know, with this mental, the emotional, the physical, the spiritual, and also the financial. How would Erica Krause personally. How would you personally, outside of any identification with Sedera or any identification or programming that you might have received in life from your heart space right now, how would you define wellness? What is your personal definition of.

Wellness? Such an awesome question. Yeah, I think it's the consistent, steady investment into my overall being. There's being and doing right. And I want to invest in both who I am from a financial, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional, and also be open for other people to invest in me. And I think that's why I love like in my personal life, my community around me is so critical. It's the most vibrant part of my life, my spirituality, the people around me. And then my investment in love and care of myself is so rich. And I'm in a season of my life. I'm facing major, major challenges, like many people are. I'm not alone in that. There's a lot of things going on in a lot of people's lives, but I feel so rich still. And I think that's wellness. It's being connected spiritually. It's being connected to other people. And then it's making those conn. Consistent, steady investments in my overall wellbeing. And I really relate to what you said. Sometimes the first step in that is taking a pause and being like, I am going to check my math here. I'm going to look at myself. Am I investing in my spiritual wellbeing or am I kind of disconnected? Have I looked at my bank account or not? Do I actually know what I just spent on clothes this month or on my healthcare? Like we're talking about? Taking that hard look is so powerful, but being open to receive and to give is just beautiful. And I'm really grateful to live here in Austin near some of my best friends and kind of have that rich connection. But that's a huge part of my wellness, for.

Sure. Well, I really loved your answer and I love how you're giving people savings and not just saving them financially, but Saving them from wasting.

Energy. Oh.

Man. All this incessant searching and trying to find the best solution. It's like it can be so much more simple. Simple. And I think that our logical mind is always wanting to make things complicated because of our programming, which is another podcast. So as we say goodbye, I love it. As we say goodbye. Erica, thank you for this bonus gift savings. You're giving our audience a bonus gift savings. It's wellnessforce.com Sedera and that's S E D E R A. So wellnessforce.com Sedera for this bonus gift savings. You guys give this a try, see if it fits. See if it's for you. I know it is for me personally. So, Erica, from the bottom of my heart, for our entire global community, thank you for doing what you do, for being able to articulate the realness about this cost sharing and how it's so different than insurance and really that system is begging for change. So as we say goodbye, I just want to honor you, put my hands together and just say thank you for being somebody in the corporate space that can actually come and bring some words to us here in the practical world world. And it's very rare. And so thank you for what you do and thank you for coming on the.

Show. Thank you so love you guys and value this community. Appreciate the time today.

Josh. Awesome. So we're talking more about this in the group wellnessforce.com group and I say awesome. People throw that word around. To be truly awesome means you're exceptional. It's like something outside of the normal path. People use that word, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. I really mean it. So it's been awesome. And until Eric and I see you again, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you.