Fertility Doctor: Do THIS Before You Give Up! (Holistic Fertility Formula)

An infertility diagnosis is not set in stone. I don't think there's any reason you shouldn't be able to conceive. I think you can have a baby. Our bodies are designed to procreate.

Why do women struggle to become pregnant?

So there's two parts, and 50% of the time it's the man. And a lot of times there's room for both to make improvements. Women are waiting longer to conceive. It's not necessarily that they have more chronological years. They've just had more years on the planet of high stress and more years on the planet of toxin exposure. In a lot of ways, those are reversible. Fertility is really a byproduct of health, not chronological age. Now we have ways to measure what's called biological age, and we're finding that that's actually way more important for fertility. Everything we eat, drink, breathe, touch, think, and feel is affecting our fertility, either in a positive or negative direction. There are some toxins that will impact your cells and your eggs. When these are in mom or dad or both, we see fewer eggs, fewer embryos, poor embryo quality, and fewer live births. They impact concept, also impact pregnancy, and then they also impact that baby's health for the rest of their life, both for mom and dad.

Now, I think there's a really special human wanting to come here because the amount of maturity and the amount of mastery that that human being will need to embody could not be more bolstered by the demands of modernity.

The souls that are coming onto the planet now and these baby souls that are coming in are requiring mom and dad to be more connected, to be clearer and cleaner and healthier. Couples who are maybe taking longer to conceive, that is perceived as struggling is really an opportunity to set your child up for their health for the rest of their life.

Kathryn, we've been marinating for a minute. I'm glad you're here. Thanks for being on the podcast.

Thanks for having me, Josh.

You know, we get wisdom at the right time, when we're ready to receive it. And I got to say, like, as a society, the wisdom around birthing children and around fertility, speaking. Speaking as a man, we're ready for new wisdom. We're ready for absolutely new wisdom. Like, yeah, I guess for a long time, we've just been choking on maybe the dark side of a patriarchal unit that's been operating in the American Medical association since, like, the early 1900s. What do you take on that? What do you. What do you think about that?

Yeah, I mean, I think we're in a renaissance of both in medicine and in thought and in spiritual evolution. And I think as a species, you know, we know fertility is declining both for men and women, and there's a lot of reasons for that, which I'm sure we'll get into. And I think this is the turning point. And so we have an opportunity in this moment in changing and choosing differently of how we bring children into the world, both in how we prepare to conceive them and in how we gestate and birth them and then raise them. But I'm on the preconception side of things, typically, but we really have an opportunity to set our lineage up for generations, set our family up for generations, but also set society and humanity up for generations.

I feel it on a deep level what I went through with the birth of my children, our first child, Nova. Unfortunately, we wanted a home birth, but then we went to the hospital and felt the clutches of the demonic belly. I mean, it was crazy. And I really meant the question I asked you. Like, this is the perfect time in our society for something new. Because when we're ready for their wisdom, it's because probably we've received the pain on the other side of not having wisdom. That was truly of service. And that's what I feel. As far as the messaging in our media for a hundred years or more around fertility, like, we've been kind of choking on lies for a long time, and maybe not even kind of. We've been choking on a lot of lies.

Yeah. I mean, and we're going off of old research in a lot of cases. Like, I think the biggest one is that your fertility falls off a cliff at 40 or 35, depending on who you're talking to. And a lot of that was originally based off of a French study from, like the 1800s, actually, maybe even earlier.

But.

Not a well done study. And what we see in the research today is there is a few point, a few percentage points decrease as we age between 35 and 40. But we're also finding so much more hope in that it's not actually about our chronological age anymore. And now we have ways to measure what's called biological age. And we're finding that that's actually way more important for fertility.

All right, so this podcast is for. Yes, it's really directly speaking to women, but it's also for the men, because you've come across some really unique science, which I love. I think that in the world right now, there's this division between science and Spirituality. But you found a way to like mesh them together, which I really love, especially because of your interest personally and then you being a naturopath and also the fertility wise test. Like, there's a lot going on here. We got a lot to talk about.

We've got a lot to talk about.

So for me, what hits the hardest is my own life experience, obviously, because I'm a father and I saw it go down. There were so many fallacies that I believed to be true in the past. And I'm talking like less than five years ago. I believed a lot of the things that you know to be true. I didn't think they were true at all. And let's start here. This is a perfect jumping off place. So when I think of the word conception, it's such a sacred, powerful word. It's literally the force that creates life. Conception. If you look at the etymology, what does conception mean to you? Especially being a specialist who helps women be healthy enough to birth, reclaim their health, to birth. Think about the power behind that word, is how sacred that is. Right? Conception.

Yeah.

What does conception actually mean to you as a naturopath? And how do you think women feel when they even hear that word conception?

Conception. I mean, for women, I do believe it has a very specific connotation to birth, to babies, to being pregnant. And for me it just means creation and to bring life. To bring life. And there's a lot of ways to do that. And some women choose to do that through babies and other women choose to do that through businesses or relationships or whatever. And so that creator force is within each of us. And part of the journey that I see for a lot of women in conception and in getting to that point is honoring the creator within and finding the creator within and connecting to the greater creator. And that is something that it's hard to put in a test and hard to put in a report.

Yeah.

But it's something that's been at the core of my practice and in the core of what the work that I do with women, you know, through clockwise and through, through everything that we do in the world, through that platform. And really I, like we had talked about kind of like this turning point in humanity and I think bringing those two together, bringing the physical, the science, but also bringing that connection within and with all.

Yeah.

Is part of what is needed to improve fertility rates and to move humanity forward. And you know, and I think even just, you know, like you talked about, like today, like we're going to be present, we're going to be Here we're going to, you know, be in the experience. I think that's something that's missing for a lot of humans and a lot of women. And I think that's actually the first step in connecting to that creator within. Connecting to the Creator with all and. And being able to move in a new direction for conception.

It's so interesting that a man and a woman would want to bring a child into the world. And unless they had some recognition or understanding of a creator. It's such an interesting thing. How could someone not be attuned or at least aware that they themselves were created?

Yeah, I mean, everybody. People are on different wavelengths and different thought patterns, different beliefs. But there's also this, like, biological imperative that, like, our cells are designed, like our bodies are designed to procreate. So you can feel that urgent without necessarily acknowledging God or universe or, you know, whatever.

True, true, good point.

And maybe part. And they go together because there's that trusting that animal aspect of like. And how much is the animal and how much is the spirit? You know, I think we're still kind of like navigating that. And maybe it's a moment to. Moment navigation.

Yeah.

But there is this biological drive and imperative, and I think there's also a spiritual imperative. And I personally think that the souls that are coming onto the planet now and these, these baby souls that are coming in are requiring mom and dad to be more connected, to be clearer and cleaner and healthier. And I think that's part of the reason some of these couples struggle, who are doing a lot of things right and who are more conscious and clean eating and all of that. Because I get a lot of those couples and they're like, how come my friend from high school can, like, smoke a pack of cigarettes and drink every weekend and, you know, get pregnant on accident or easily? And I'm educated, cooking all my own.

Meals, you know, 100% organic.

Organic, doing everything right. And I'm. And it's like, not happening like that. And I actually think it's an opportunity to really tune in and to do maybe deeper inner work than that somebody else might not need to do in this lifetime on this planet.

Yeah.

And to maybe connect with that baby soul, connect with yourself, to dig a little bit deeper to. It's an opportunity to clear out the cells and maybe even the karma so that you're bringing this child through your body and through into the family with as little baggage as possible, as little toxic baggage, as little karmic baggage. So I think the opportunity in couples who are maybe taking longer to conceive. That is perceived as struggling is really an opportunity to set your child up for their health for the rest of their life. And we know this through epigenetics. So there's science to back up what I think I'm seeing in practice.

Yeah, you know, the epigenetics. I also believe that there's emotional epigenetics as well.

100%.

Because like look at the genotype, right? The A's, the C's, the T's and the G's. The little mechanism, the epimechanism on top of the genome. That's what switches on and off depending on behavior, internal thought, internal peace, internal chaos. It's a very complex web. Like that's why this is like a multi billion dollar, maybe even trillion dollar field. Fertility, genetics, epigenetics, they kind of come together at a crossroads. And there's a perfect quote that y' all posted from clockwise recently. And it's another jumping off point for an even deeper section of fertility fallacies. Like the things that people have believed that are just simply not true. Yeah, and it is not. Conceiving is a signal from nature. It may be a misalignment with mom or dad's physical body or within the partnership or within the woman's relationship to her womb, the creation center, or a timing issue with the baby coming in. Sometimes we never know the real reason, but there are gifts of growth that occur along the journey that are important. So with that as a pre frame, why do women struggle to become pregnant?

There's a lot of reasons. And it's not just women, it's the couple. So there's two, two parts. And 50% of the time it's the man. And a lot of times there's room for both to make improvements. And the way I kind of break it down into what we call our fast framework. So there's all the very like earthly, normal bodily things. Food, fasting, fitness, sleep, stress, supplementation, toxins and trauma. We also have a section that's associated conditions and these are more medical things. So this could be something like a PCOS diagnosis. Blood sugar, dysregulation. Different. Different things that are a little more down the disease spectrum that aren't just in that basic like everyday habits. Everything we eat, drink, breathe, touch, think and feel is affecting our fertility either in a positive or negative direction.

No pressure.

No pressure.

Geez.

Yeah, but it's the consistency, like having water out of a plastic water bottle one day. It's not necessarily going to mess up your fertility. But if you're doing that every single day, it's the repetition that definitely impacts. And there are some toxins that will impact your cells and your eggs in one exposure. Hopefully we're not exposed to those things. That would be like a much heavy, maybe even not one exposure, but enough of a mercury or a lead or something like that can impact. So the biggest things that I see in practice and that I think my colleagues are also seeing when I speak with them, are stress and toxins. So we could go into like the diagnosis. We could go into, well, women are waiting longer to conceive and that's why they're struggling. And that's true. We are seeing that women are waiting longer to conceive. But I actually think that's a beautiful thing because we have more time with ourselves. We have more time to do our inner work. We have more time to have our careers, to build beautiful relationships. So we're more financially stable, emotionally stable, relationship stable. We're just trying to figure out how to get the biology to like, get the message right. And so what I see is that it's not necessarily that they have more chronological years. In some cases we see that, and in some cases we don't. Because I see women struggling, late 20s, early 30s, sometimes. Usually it's more. They've just had more years on the planet of high stress and more years on the planet of toxin exposure. And in a lot of ways those are reversible. Not always and not 100%. But I mean, I've seen some pretty impressive cases in my practice.

Can I share one, please?

Okay, yeah. So one of the things that really like hit this home for me a few years ago, I had a woman who came to me at 42 years old. She had had a failed round of IVF at 36, failed round of IVF at 40, came to me at 42, like, had gotten like zero viable embryos in both cases, I think like zero total embryos and then like maybe one non viable in one of them. So at 42, like, if, if fertility is really all about chronological age, I should not have been able to get her any better results than she had at 40 or especially 36. Right. So we did a full lifestyle protocol and she was an amazing patient. Like, did every, everything really. And within a few months, they were like, okay, we're going to do one last round of ivf. And they got nine grade A embryos. So it's not about chronological age. She was actively able to shift her fertility. She would, she Was diagnosed as infertile. Like the diagnosis of infertility is, you're actively trying for one year or sometimes just six months if you're over 35, like knowing your fertile window, trying at the timed intercourse, not able to conceive for a year or six months. And then multiple failed rounds of IVF over many years. And she got nine grade A embryos. So that's a very dramatic example. Not every couple is that dramatic, but I've seen lots of women in their late 30s who went through multiple failed rounds of IVF and and now have babies who are 3, 4, 5, 6 years old even.

That's huge hope for women in their 40s based on actual science and experience.

Yeah.

What did she do that tweaked that? That moved the needle for real?

I mean, she did a lot of things. She did fasting, she did plant medicine.

Oh, she went deep.

She went deep.

This wasn't just topical medical biomarkers.

No, this was. This was full lifestyle overhaul, full soul overhaul. Like she did it.

The layers of the psychosomatics and the mind body work that you talk about in your media, I think has the same. It's almost unequivocal to the biometrics and the blood and the biomarkers. Like essentially, if Lady Liberty was holding the body mind work and the biomarkers, wouldn't they be right there as far as impact?

I mean, honestly, I think the mind body is more important.

You think it's more than the biomarkers?

I think it's more important than the biomarkers for a couple of reasons. Because I think the mind body can dictate the biomarkers. And I think the. The mind body spirit connection can actually override physical issues in a lot of cases.

How so?

Let me share some stories. So I had a woman. She was. She came to me at 36. They had been trying for a year, unsuccessfully. At 19, she was told she had PCOS and would never be able to get pregnant. So 36. So that's 17 years. Yeah, right. I can't do math right now. They had been trying for a year. Anyway, I run all their labs before I get their labs. I can tell there's some mind body stuff that we need to get into. I don't know exactly what it is, but I invite her in for her first mind body session. Well, actually, there were two components. The first was in that appointment. I said, you're at a completely different woman than you were at 19. And based on what you've shared with me, you're Having regular cycles and no symptoms here or there. I don't think there's any reason you shouldn't be able to conceive. I think you can have a baby. So she broke down in tears that a doctor had told her she would never have a baby. And now a doctor is telling her, I think you can have a baby. Just that internal shift. Now there's a whole other conversation about who we give our authority over to in this whole medical realm.

But yeah, let's have that later, we.

Can come back to that. And so that was like the first shift for her. Then I invited her in for a one on one mind body session. And what we uncovered was that when she was five years old, her brothers had taken her to the woods and left her there. And we got to that through this fear of abandonment. And her husband was maybe still is a marine and so, you know, would go off on a tour of duty and she's at home and there's this original trauma that's also daily now becoming a daily trigger of this fear of abandonment. And so we got to it, we got to the memory. We did a fairly easy process using some eye movement and some tapping and a couple of different things to heal that original trauma. And they got pregnant on her next ovulation. And I got their labs back and I, and when I looked at the labs, I'm like, okay, we've got a little bit of work to do. Like we'll get there but it's going to take a little bit of time. We've got a little work to do, a lot of gut stuff. You know, there was, I can't remember what else in the moment. And they came back into my office and they're like, we're pregnant. So totally over. I mean overrode the biomarkers and the block was in that mind body level for her. And when we cleared that like baby was like, I'm here, we're doing this.

I just needed it literally doesn't surprise me at all. And when I hear you say it, I think about how many women believed what they were diagnosed with and how sad that is. Yeah, it's like I can feel them, right? I can feel compassion for. I don't even know y', all but I know that some of you are really struggling, really struggling. And I loved how you even pre framed the question. I was such a masculine question. I asked you, I'm like, so why don't women get pregnant? And you're like, actually it's the man and the woman of Course it is. Of course it is. Because I'm coming at this from like I feel that society, and maybe my question was perfect because society puts so much pressure on the woman, like it's the woman's fault. But there's this almost blind spot. Not almost. There is a blind spot when it comes to the health of the sperm for a man. And also really deep with the mind, body work that you're describing. So there's a lot of multi contextual ingredients here to unpack.

Yeah.

And I really love that story because I think it just gives people hope that they're not alone. And so if a woman and a man are feeling like just like there's no way out, they're super sad. It's really, it can be very psychologically draining to go through. I have a friend now here in Austin who's going through it and I believe she, his partner is in her 40s and she's maybe been told things. They're very deeply spiritual people, so I'm sure they have a lot of tools. I did tell him about the fertility wise test and clockwise, which is interesting. And he's like, oh yeah, that seems, that seems fascinating. So I think there's a lot of layers here. The best place to go next would be the great story you told. How did that bloom? How did that come to fruition for them? Are they, are they now celebrating the child and you're a part of their life still? It's got to be so rewarding.

Yeah, I mean I, they were in San Diego and I've been out of San Diego quite a few years now. But I still keep in touch with most of my families and I think they're, they're definitely had two kids. I'm trying to remember if they had a third or not. But I mean, beautiful family, very happy living the dream life. Just, you know, that was for her, that was like what, you know, what she wanted most deeply in life and for him too. You know, I think we tend to think that like women are the ones who like want to be mothers so bad.

Sure.

But one of the most beautiful things I've seen is when the men come in and they're like, I really want to be a father. And it's not just I want to support my wife in being a mother because there's that dynamic too. And that isn't always, let's say the most fertile dynamic, but it's when the dads come in and they're like, I want to be a dad. And they're really connected in that way to their heart or to their family or to their future child. That's when I see, like, the most magic happen. And it. And it happens very quickly and easily. And there might still be physical things that need to be addressed, but when we're looking at both the energetics and the physical, when that part is in place, everything seems to move a little bit easier. And I don't know if that's that masculine drive of, like, I'm gonna put a baby in you, or if it's the, you know, that masculine. Holding the container of the family and holding the vision for the family in that.

Yeah.

But it's such a beautiful thing that I've experienced in. In men. And it was part of helping me, like, realize that that was what I needed in a partner as well, was somebody who really wanted to be a dad and really enjoyed family, and that was a value.

So you're right. You mentioned earlier, you don't have to necessarily be connected to the all or be connected to the Creator because you have those primal urges that come through.

Yeah.

But imagine, just imagine, y', all, if you could just, like, put this on like a sweater. Let's say you have that urge, that primal urge, and you have an incredibly strong connection to the Creator. That is the recipe for then looking at biomarkers, healing mind, body, and bringing life into the world. Ultimately. Would you say that's true?

A hundred percent, yeah. And even, like my co founder, her story is pretty incredible. So she and her partner, she's been a patient of mine for years at this point and has been, like, preparing. In fact, our test helped her actually leave her previous partner because she wasn't just going to stay with him to try and get a baby before she was too old. It, like, helped her walk away. And then now with her current partner, so she was, like, biologically all, like, ready to go. Biomarker wise and energetically was, like, ready to go.

Yeah.

And with her partner, she wanted him to get tested because in case they needed to take some time to, like, improve things. And also he was maybe doing some things that were probably not the best for that epigenome that they were going to be creating. And so they did a semen analysis. We actually partnered with that company because we love them so much. And he came back with, I think it was 1% morphology. And we want that, like, 14% and up and like 3% motility, and we want that 40% and up. So basically, like, very few viable sperm. Which one? And he was already, like, on the energetics, he's like, I'm going to put a baby in you. We're building our family. Like, he had the Energetics, like locked in and he had so much faith. Like, even after seeing the results, he's like, we're not going to have any problems. Like just. I know we're not going to have any. Like this is going to happen. He did do a three month protocol that I put him on and. And was willing to shift some of the habits that were probably contributing to some of those numbers. I wish he would have retested. They didn't retest, but they did get pregnant on the first try. And Sarah is now due in June. So the energetics, the faith, but then also he. He was willing to make the changes as well. So there is that balance of like the physical, the faith.

What were his changes specifically? Was it like he was sitting down and playing video games? He was riding a bike with a sharp seat. Like, what was it he.

I don't know how much permission I have to share exactly, but like, I would say there was some consistent marijuana usage. There was a history of heavier cigarette smoking.

Got it. But we're not mentioning names, so there's no.

Yeah, that's true.

There's no confidentiality.

There was probably a bit more hape usage than was probably good for his system. So even like sacred plant medicines, if you're doing maybe things too much or maybe not in not really feeling into the alignment of when it's truly called for and maybe erring a little bit more on the side of. Towards the abuse spectrum. I'm not saying that that was necessarily the case, but there's definitely. A lot of things can be overdone.

Yeah, you will. Welcome to Austin. And I'm sure you feel it in L. A when you were there. Like, there's the abuse of almost everything, whether it's like food, sex, drugs, plant medicine, even breath work. People are doing breath work every day. Like deep Stan Groff journeys. I'm just like, you know, we don't have to go so hard. There's a softness that you bring to your practice. And I think it's very fitting actually that. That a woman like yourself is actually going through the process herself. Like that, to me is a mirror of integrity that your patients have probably felt for a long time. This journey has been building for you personally.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

And the journey started when you really met the Greek God that you're about to marry, the Adonis. Tell us about that. Because I think this is a really Deep inflection point for women and men that are struggling. Their life may be out of alignment and they just don't know it. They feel like they're doing all the right things, the organic food, the lifestyle, the healthiness. But your story is a mirror of we just don't know what we don't know.

Yeah, right. Yeah. And it started before I. Before he was even in the field. And it started I was mid-30s, single, in LA, you know, building my practice, but definitely wanting to be a mom and, like, going on lots of dates, being like, is this my baby daddy? Is this my baby daddy? Which is not the best energy to go, you know, go dating with. Right. I mean, maybe it's kind of cool.

If the man's ready.

True, true.

If he's done the work to be prepared. Like, he'll meet you on the platform.

For sure. For sure. And after seeing what I was seeing in my practice with all of these mamas who were coming in, you know, quote unquote, older, but still having good results, you know, I was both feeling the pressure of the biological clock ticking and knowing that, like, so much more is possible.

Yeah.

And so I was introduced to this biological age marker that looks at cellular health, cellular age, and was like, huh, Is this like the missing piece of. You know, I'm seeing that fertility is really a byproduct of health, not chronological age. This biological age marker is measuring health of the cells. Like, I wonder if this is the missing piece that I've been looking for. So the first thing I do is test myself. I was convinced I was going to come back at 28. I was 33 at the time. Like, literally chanting while doing my finger prick, like, 28. 28, 28. I did not come back at 28. I didn't even come back at 33. I came back four years older than I was. And so my first response was denial. And so I'm like, well, maybe this has nothing to do with fertility. And so I went into the research, but sure enough found a paper showing that women with advanced biological age, meaning that biological age marker, came back older than they were. The exact situation I was in had poorer fertility outcomes. So fewer eggs on egg retrieval for either egg freezing or ivf, fewer viable embryos, fewer live births. And these are the things we can measure in the research. It's harder to measure, like, natural conception with this sort of stuff. And so I'm like, this is, like, for real. So now. Now I have, like, a little emotional breakdown to kind of like, move through that Energy, right? I get through the emotional breakdown, I get up off the floor and I'm like, well, now I need to figure this out. Now I need to, like, solve this first for myself and then for everyone else. So I go back to the research and back to, like, what I. What was working in practice. And there were really two papers published at the time showing that it was possible to rewind this biological age marker using, like, growth hormone and metformin. I wasn't about to put myself on those two things, so I kind of reworked the mechanisms through my, like, naturopathic brain and Dr. Brain and biochemistry and put myself on a protocol retested eight weeks later and was able to rewind my biological clock by a full two years and eight weeks. So that's hope. And then over the next year, as more research was coming out and as I was like, tweaking the protocol, adding different supplements, cycling in and out of different things, on my 35th birthday, I came back at 31 and 3 quarters. So I went from four years older to almost four years younger in about a year and a couple of months. So that is like, it's almost a decade. Revolutionary. Yeah.

Yeah.

And that for me was hope. And that was like, okay, I can, like, actually relax and enjoy life. Like, I don't have to spend every moment, like, get to baby, get to baby, get to, you know, get married, get baby, you know, like, I can, like, enjoy being a doctor and, like, enjoy having fun in LA and like, go to some breath work and like, you know, all that sort of fun stuff. And it really took the pressure off. And then shortly after that, like, once this pressure is, like, relieved and I'm just enjoying life and trusting and both in my own spiritual practice, but both in my own fasting practice and doing what I need to do on that side. I met my guy on Instagram.

On Instagram, of all places.

Yeah. And he found me. And my sister likes to joke that he slid into my DMs. And I'm the only person on the planet lucky enough to actually open a DM from a random guy and for it to be my husband.

That is pretty rare, I don't think. I actually never heard that. I'm sure somebody watching and listening is like, that's how we met. But I'm like, that's pretty rare. Yeah, it's very, very rare. I love that. It was almost a decade. You freaking moved the needle. Yeah, eight years. So it's again, a seed of hope has been planted. Because, look, the mind body was something that you worked on that led you to the biomarkers. Actually now when I feel your story, you were building your practice, you were living in la, but yet you really just wanted to be a mom. Yeah, like that was within you the whole time. There was this war. And I feel like that war is probably in a lot of women.

Oh, yeah. I mean, and to go back even further, like, I almost didn't go to medical school because I'm like, I really just want to be a mom. Like, do I want to spend all of this money and all of this time and have all of this debt to like really just be home with my kids? Yeah. But then I'm like, well, I should probably do something that I enjoy and that's also good for humanity while I'm, you know, waiting for all of that to happen, essentially. So thank God I did. I like, I'm so happy I made that decision for myself. And my mom is like the proudest, cutest mom ever that her daughter's a doctor. It's very sweet. And I've been in practice a decade now and she's still like very excited about it. And she claims it's because she breastfed me till I was four, which it might be, but again, hey, lots of.

Good gut nutrients and breast milk. Breast milk is like liquid gold for sure.

For sure.

Would you say that the mind body is the foundation for the lifestyle changes that women really need to conceive to get pregnant?

Yeah, absolutely. And that's typically where I tell people to start. Like even when they take our, our fertility wise test and get their age and everything and then are like, okay, what do I do next? I almost always tell them to start with the mind body component, usually with the stress, sometimes with the trauma, because we have like all of the thoughts going through our head. That's a constant input. We're eating how many times a day? Maybe three, maybe one, maybe 12. Who knows? Hopefully not 12. But, but those thoughts are constant and that energy is constant. And when we can shift that into an empowering space, all the other choices that we have to make throughout the day with the food, with the sleep, with the, with, you know, everything else, it gets easier to make the right choices for us.

Yeah.

And it gets easier to. When we're in alignment, it's almost like the path just starts to like unfold for us and there's like maybe signs, maybe guidance, maybe you meet the right practitioner. But I do think it really starts with the, the mind, body, spirit connection.

And in order for that connection to Exist. This is actually super key that I'd love your insight on. In order for that connection to exist, there has to be a decision making faculty inside of us. Like call it an intuition. Right. You sharpen the sword of your intuition. That sharpening of intuition is being blunted right now. And that's actually one of the ways that you are rising above the common narrative. I think women's intuition. Like you shared that story about the woman who was told at 19 that she'd never birth and she had PCOS. What doctors tell women can put a cloud of rain on them their entire life, but it's simply not true. Can you expand on that?

Yeah. I mean, there is a bit of a God complex for them. For doctors, I think. I mean, and we're moving out of that. I think there's a lot of empowerment moving through, like grassroots collective, like learning what's right for your body. But historically, and this was, you know, we could go into the history of why this might be.

But I'm fascinated by the history.

I mean, I'm sure you have you discussed like the Flexner Report and stuff like that on here. Never really.

This is why this podcast can change so many lives. Because there's so many women globally that are with us. And we've never done a podcast about conceiving, about truly conceiving and fertility fallacies. So it's super important that we know the depth of the history so that we know the story that we've been force fed that simply isn't true.

Yeah. Wow. Man. I didn't think I was going to be given a history lesson today, but here we go.

Let's go.

So in the early 1900s, there, there was a. A little competition and it funded by money. I'm like almost scared to say names because I'm afraid we're gonna get like censored or something.

Please, like let go of the fear and just go because it's so important. We just did. Okay, so the episode that's coming out after our episode. Yeah. So Teal Swan talking about conscious parenting. Right. And generational healing yourself, talking about the ways that women and men can actually conceive mind, body and. And biomarkers. The truth around that. And then also an episode with Eric Klopper who's talking about how we wound men. How all of us, myself included, 120 million men are circumcised and traumatized at birth from some religious ideology that it's somehow better to snip the end of a penis off from a boy when he's born.

You've got quite the triad of.

So let's go like full permission to have no fear. Got it.

Okay. So there was a very prominent family, may have been the Rockefellers, that funded a report called the Flexner Report. And they basically paid this guy to go around to all the different types of medical schools in the country. And there were a lot of different types. There were the eclectic schools, there were the naturopathic schools, there were the osteopathic schools, there were herbalism schools, and there were these conventional allopathic medical schools. So this report basically tore down anything that wasn't along that allopathic. Utilizing the pharmaceuticals, the, the latest and greatest of the time, so to speak, but really the most removed from nature. And so, and there was a whole, you know, media campaign basically with the quacks and you know, shutting down everybody from like the chiropractors to the herbalists, to, to that whole natural healing realm to create a monopoly in medicine of what today is allopathic medicine. And so there was, there was media behind it, there was money behind it, and it was fairly strategic from, from what I've read, maybe not with the best intentions for humanity and really driven by greed. And so that has built our medical system today. And I think that's also, you know, we're, we've come a long way, a long, long way. Like naturopathic doctors are licensed in more than 20 states in the country at this point. You know, we're integrated. Integrative medicine is a very common term. Most people know what that is. A lot of people are getting some care in that respect. But there was a fairly organized effort to squash anything that was like self empowering, utilized nature and to really put the power into the hands of the doctors. And you know, we used to have, in the birthing community, like it used to be all the midwives, the women who would be with the women in birth and would use herbs and would, you know, use whatever, you know, they were using for hundreds, thousands. You know, we've been birthing for as long as we've been on planet. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I, and these male doctors came in and basically said, we're doing it this way. And I think that's actually created a lot of the dysfunction that we see in society today. I think the way we birth is, is hugely important for how we develop as a human and how we develop as society and how we treat our mothers, how we treat our babies. And that has been. I don't even, I don't Even have a word for it. But it's a terrible thing for humanity in my experience. And there's a spectrum and what I see right now, so we've got like the free birthing community that's like no birth attendance. I'm doing this on my own, fully empowered, like nature, earth, God, me.

Have your baby on a lily pad next to a river maybe. Yeah, yeah, just by yourself.

And then there's the very medicalized model where there's a ton of C sections, a lot of medical management, a lot of induction and there's a spectrum in between. And I think there's beauty in that we have a lot of choice of how we want to birth. And I think there's been a lot of fear mongering, Dr. God complex and removal of our own power and of our own trust in our bodies, in nature, in our connection to the earth and in how we are nature. And so I think that's probably the saddest part for me is that we have given this internal power, this internal connection to nature, to our bodies, our bodies know how to birth. And, and in reality there will be some percentage where there might be a complication and that might end in a not great situation. And each individual has to be able to choose with full awareness what the risks and benefits are for every scenario for themselves. But I think what makes me the saddest is that we've really pulled that, that self power piece out of women in the birthing. But also now in, in the conception with throwing it right to ivf, throwing it right to, you know, all the reproductive technologies. I think it's great that we have them and that they are an option. And I think there's a lot of disempowerment and a lot of putting the responsibility outside of ourselves, putting the power outside of ourselves to try and control an outcome.

Yeah, it's beautiful. On the screen right now there's an upside down triangle and that's the element, that's the sign for water and it's in part of our business logo. It's on these mic flags as well. And the reason I put that in there, and I've told this story before, it's because that's my own learning curve on planet Earth. You know, the, the feminine energy inside of me and the feminine energy inside of my woman and all my, my past relationships has literally been the most challenging thing for me to understand, to be good with, to integrate. And so it's no surprise that I'm a man doing his best to be wise that's why this is wellness and wisdom. I can't have wisdom unless I filter through all the info and actually test out through life experience what works, what provides loving results, powerful results, peaceful results that I can actually pull trustable power from, because I can't be in power if I'm taking it by force. And what's interesting about your story, what was the report name again?

The Flexner Report.

The Flexner. Where the Flexner Report went wrong. Truly. And actually, I don't even want to say wrong. Just where the Flexner Report went, hyper masculine and controlling and dominating, is that it gave no space for a woman's voice. It just said, I know it's best. We're going to do this in the name of money. We're going to do this from force, from taking, which is not real power, it's actually manipulative power. And it silenced the voice of women, which then created, in my opinion, and I want to know how you feel about this, it created this massive wave where now we've swung the pendulum from literally, maybe dark side of patriarchy, whatever kind of nomenclature you want to use now, it's gone so hyper far in certain circles, even in the free birth world, there's some militant, very angry, very wounded women leading large movements of other women and projecting their wounding, clouding their wisdom onto these women. My family has dealt with this specifically. I'm not able to share this on the podcast because I don't even want to give that movement airtime. But y' all can figure it out. We went through it. It's very traumatic. And so I understand. I have compassion for what that person is dealing with, but it drastically impacted our family. So. But I get it. I can see what you're painting on a 30,000 foot view with this Flexner Report. The masculine came in and said, I'm going to use money and take by force. It created a massive pendulum swing where now here in 2024, we have a lot of movements out there that are honestly wounding women from a place of wounding themselves. Where's the middle in this? How do we bring women to the center of empowerment, to where a woman's voice is heard, to where a man can support her. But what does that even look like?

I mean, I think it starts with the indiv. The individual woman being able to tap into her own center and to feel what is alignment, what is resonance for her. And from that place, learning about everything that's available to her on the spectrum and being able to truly choose in her authenticity, in her Vulnerability in her, what truly feels best to her body, to her soul, to her spirit of where she wants to be on that spectrum. I think it's fine to have the whole spectrum available. And I think it's, you know, there's a lot of processes happening in the collective because of someone's wounding. Right, sure.

And we're all wounded in some way.

Yeah, for sure.

That's part of our journey to look at the wound and heal from it.

We're humans, we're like, you know.

Yeah, it's not a savior complex or a superman complex. It's literally just life. Yeah, we're all wounded in some way.

It's totally life. So I really think it's reminding women that they do have the choice and to really listen to themselves for their. And it might not be the same birth to birth, it might not be the same day to day, but to really find your center, feel into your center, trust what your body, your soul is saying to you and follow that because it can be very easy to get caught up in the fear mongering on either side.

Yeah.

And you know, and I've thought about this for myself, like, what kind of birth do I want to have? Like, we're getting married in April. We're going to open the baby portal right away. We'll see when that baby wants to come in. But. And I've thought about birth a lot. I've attended a number of births in my, in my career. I'll probably be at Sarah's birth. And for me, like, the free birth doesn't actually feel the best for me. Like, I want somebody there with me. I want to, I want it to be, you know, centered, led by me. I want, I don't, there's a lot of things I don't want. So I want somebody there with me who's very fine with not doing those things. But, you know, and maybe there's pressure to be like, oh, I should. I definitely have felt pressure to be like, oh, I should free birth. Because that's like the most natural or the most empowering or whatever. And what it comes back to for me is like, actually that's not what feels best in my body. Like, I'll actually feel safer just having someone there, someone that I can turn to and be like, is this normal? Like what's, you know, I just. And so I think it's just coming back to that center.

Yeah. Wow. You just put such perfect words on it. Because in my own journey with my own family that I shared about, and by the way. We'll drop a link in the show notes. Y' all can find out who I'm talking about. I just don't want to mention them on the body for sure, because it needs to. The word needs to get out. There's already multiple lawsuits anyways against this person. So what you really said in perfect ways was there's a time and a place for a woman to listen to how her body is guiding her, and that time and a place could not be more important than birth. That is probably a woman's most powerful decision on planet Earth. Would you agree?

Yeah, totally.

Like, what could be more powerful than how she chooses to bring life into the world that perpetuates our species? What is more important than this? This is why on the past couple of podcasts, and I'd love to get your take on this, I think as men, we have literally just. And forgive us, we didn't know. We were taught by examples of our father and grandfather about how to provide containment and support a woman and. And figure out the masculine and feminine. And us. It just didn't exist. It didn't exist at all. Like, it wasn't something that we were taught. But the same exists for the woman as well. Right. And I'm speaking heteronormatively. Some people relate in all different ways, and that's beautiful. Right. For them. So I'll just use the man woman example right now, women weren't necessarily taught how to let a man have space all the time. Some women were, but some, I would say, if I had to guess, just based on the 600 podcasts I've done and all the friends that I have in the network, it's more times than not. I'm generalizing here. Right. There's obviously diamonds in the rough everywhere, but women, in the same way, were not taught to allow spaciousness for a man because of maybe their drive for career or the dark side of feminism. There's a dark side of patriarchy and feminism. So these things converge in this space of healing. And the only way they can really converge is if we even know how to hold it when they get there. So you talked about a woman listening to her body and feeling into what's true for her, which creates literally the most powerful decision of birth she could ever have on planet Earth. I wonder. I just wonder, even in my opening question to you, I keep going back to that. Why can't women birth? It's like, well, actually, it's the man and the woman that create life, so it's equally their responsibility but yet, and this is my question for you, there is such a depth of work that a woman must do that in a way, I wonder if it is more than the level of work that a man must do because she is the one that holds the child. She is the one that brings the child into the world. The father plants the seed. The womb is the garden of life. So which one, I mean which one essentially seems like the woman has more work to do.

I would say she has more responsibility, I would say, and more work in that she is carrying the child. Like if we break it into just conception, I think we've got like a 50, 50 both on the energetics and on the physical. Then once that baby is conceived, it's like a 9010 for sure. Right.

And then the birth, they hold it together after the seed has been planted. It's really, it's such a deep chasm for her.

Yeah. So I would say there's also more responsibility in her preparation for that of like wanting to have the healthiest pregnancy she can. She is going to be implant, not implanting, but she is going to be altering those epigenetics of that baby more. What she's exposed to is going to change that baby's epigenome even after, even beyond like the epigenetics that have been inherited. And some epigenetics do get reset. But we also know some epigenetics you might be getting trauma from your great great, great, great great great grandfather.

Sure.

Or toxin exposure. I don't know if they had toxins back then. Probably. Who knows?

Probably less. Probably much less.

I would hope less.

There wasn't as many chemtrails back then.

Yeah. So you know, she holds a greater epigenetic responsibility during the pregnancy for sure. And obviously during the birth. Because actually here's something that's super interesting and I learned this from Zach Bush, that oxytocin can actually reset the epigenome. And the most oxytocin that a baby and a mama will ever experience is during that birth. So it's almost like that birth experience is an opportunity to reset. Maybe not anything and everything, but to offer a clean slate to that little baby coming through and maybe also to mom, just to add more emphasis on like the power of the birth experience.

So in the hospital, if a woman's intuition has been blunted by a false diagnosis, and I don't want to demonize them, it's a well meaning doctor. It's not like this doctor has it out to like be evil to the 19 year old to say she has PCOS. That doctor is doing the best they can, 100%. They have. Right. But the fact remains that this physician is still casting a shadow on this woman's life, which blunts her intuition, which then gives her a just ridiculously challenging path by the time she actually wants to become a mother. There's got to be a different narrative, and I think that's what you and Clockwise are producing.

Thank you. We're working on it.

Yeah. So share with people then. Which, by the way, I know your birth is going to be amazing. I can already feel that.

Thank you.

Paul Check told me on the podcast once. He's like, I can see in my third eye. You're going to be on stage and you're going to do all these things. He told me that four years ago. It's definitely come true. So if I have a connection to my third eye, what I would be able to see in you is that you are not just on, like, an Oprah one day, but also women are really taking ownership of their own biology again and their own intuition again, literally at their home in a box, testing their blood, which is the best use of technology I've ever seen. You don't have to go to the fricking doctor's office to get pregnant. You just don't. Sure about that?

Yeah. I mean, so we created a test you can take at home. Finger prick, few drops of blood, you mail off the card. And we give you a number of markers that help you optimize your fertility and prolong your reproductive window if you do the right things. And so the test itself gives you a picture of where you are in this moment. We look at three different things. We look at your biological age, so that's the age of your cells in this moment. Now, that means everything from when you were born, maybe even, you know, from when you were conceived up until now. So if you had a lot of childhood trauma or partied a lot in your college years, that number might be a little bit higher. We also have your. What's called your. Your aging speedometer. It's called the Duna Dim Pace algorithm out of Duke University. Big, fancy algorithm. It's the gold standard in aging testing right now, and it's how fast your cells are aging in this moment. So even if your age comes back a little bit older, if your speedometer is less than 1, that means you're aging slower than time. And what you're doing right now is working for you. So we have, like, the overall cellular health. We have what you're doing in this moment cellular health wise. And then we have our. Our Clock Talks panel, which are nine fertility toxins that we know. I mean, we know these, these do a lot of things, and they probably do a lot of things we don't know. But at least for the research, we know they, a lot of them make it take longer to conceive by up to 30%. So are you struggling or is it just toxins? When these are in mom or dad or both, we see fewer eggs, fewer embryos, poor embryo quality, and fewer live births. And what's crazy is like, these studies are done in IVF clinics and these papers have been published showing that these toxins decrease success with egg freezing and ivf. But none of those doctors are actually testing any of these things. And we are exposed to these every single day. So our test looks at these so that one, you can start making the right choices to get them to stop the exposures. And then if there's anything else that needs to happen to help get them out of the body, because they impact conception, but then they also impact pregnancy, and then they also impact that baby's health for the rest of their life, both for mom and dad. So we test dad too, because if dad's been exposed to phthalates, then that can increase. If they have a baby boy, that can increase that child's risk of ADHD, behavioral disorders, even like age 7 to 10 was what specifically what they had looked at. So it's like even what dad's exposed to, preconception sets that child's genes up for the rest of their life. And their health and toxins unfortunately impact that. And we're exposed to a lot of toxins. So we test the big fertility ones. There's a lot more. We're learning more every day. But to be able to just have a finger prick at home, that gives you that much information. But then we also give you our FAST framework. So then you get 20 pages of what to actually do about it. Like, how do you rewind the biological clock? How did I rewind my biological clock? What have I done with my patients? What's in the research? I've got like, you know, multiple pages just full of citations of everything. And we've, and we've seen great success both in both just the rewinding, but then also the conception piece. And if I had like, perfect science, we would have a before and after test, before anybody tried to conceive. We don't have that, but I would say we've got a Lot of babies, both in my practice and then as we've, you know, moved more into like the general population with clockwise. But the other thing that's like, so cool. And this kind of comes back to the like, fertility is a byproduct of health, is that like every single person who does, I don't want to say the protocol, but who works with our FAST framework, feels better and improves their hormones and improves their cellular health and their energy and their sleep and their brain function. It's because all of these things are cellular health. Fertility is cellular health, brain function is cellular health. And there's a lot of things that impact that. But that also means there's a lot of things we can do to improve that, to fix that, to reverse that. So I created this, Sarah and I created the Fertility Wise test the way we did one, because it's the best science on aging out there. It's directly connected to fertility. And our goal is to help women and couples have healthy babies on their timeline. Now, in order to do that, you gotta start sooner rather than later. So the clock is ticking, right? We feel the biological clock ticking. Maybe it's not about chronological age, maybe it's about biological age. But if I have somebody come in and she's chronologically 42, we do the test and she comes back at 46, that's a very different picture than a woman who's 42 and comes back at 36. And it takes time to rewind that much. So, yeah, it took me a year and a couple of months, but for a lot of women, it takes a year to rewind two years. And so if you test early and you start early, then you can potentially prevent struggle. And there are going to be things that are going to be out of the realm of just cellular health. Like if somebody's got blocked fallopian tubes just doing the things for cellular health, probably not going to be enough to clear those tubes. They might need to go through ivf. But if that egg and that sperm are as healthy as possible, because your cellular health is good, your biological age is younger, when you go through ivf, you should have better results based on what the research says. So before somebody goes and spends, you know, 25, $50,000 on one or multiple rounds of IVF, pumps themselves full of hormones, spends all the time and emotional energy to do that, it might be nice to know if there's some things you could do that could improve your success rates. Right? So that's one of one aspect of it. So there's the prevention Component Like I think women, anybody who thinks they want to have a baby, even if you don't know for sure, should start testing five years before you think you want to start trying so that, you know, all those epigenetics are perfect. I mean, and by perfect, nobody's ever going to be perfect. Like, you do the best you can, sanity first, you're a human, human family, you know, I've never seen anybody come back with zero toxins. So just for anybody taking the test out there, there's no like perfect perfect, just so you know. But that prevention aspect is so, so key and then also can be utilized. Like before egg freezing, you take a couple of months, rewind that biological age, get those toxins out of your body, you should get better results. And there's always going to be some factors we can't control. And what the research shows and what we've seen in practice, like I've seen, you know, women, 40, 42 get 12 to 20 eggs, which is a great number for that age. And it's because they're probably not 42 biologically. They're probably, you know, and again, I didn't have tests on everybody throughout my whole career, but I will moving forward. We're actually trying to get NIH funding to do a large scale study.

Well, I absolutely think you will because the results will speak for themselves. And you know, whether you want to call it dark shadow or not, money talks. So when it comes to the medical industry, money talks.

Yeah.

So as you go through this proving ground with the fertility wise test, they're not going to not be able to look at it. They're going to have to look at it. So it's no surprise that the NIH would fund something like this because it would be more profitable for them. They would actually make more money with it in some way and then in another way they would lose money. But it would be transferring the money from proactive care to preventative care.

Well, I think the answer is both. I mean, if we can get somebody better results with ivf, I think everybody wins. And if somebody doesn't need IVF and can get pregnant naturally, the couple wins. And that that's what matters more to me. I mean, we're also working on some other really cool things for the future. We're putting together a mennowise test because we've had so many women who are like, I'm done with babies, but like, I want to know my biological age and like how that relates to menopause and cancer risk and all of that, so we're working on that. And then the, the big vision that we're working on to really shift the fertility industry as a whole is a fertility predictability algorithm. So right now we've got the biological age marker, which we know has impact on outcomes. But if we can actually look at, you know, we collect 900,000 points on the DNA in a given sample, if we get outcome data with that, we can find which of those points at what, what are called methylation. Beta values are predictive for a specific outcome. And now we can take a couple, do a finger prick on both of them and say if you guys were to do IVF right now, you've got a 12% chance of getting four or more grade A embryos or you've got a 93% chance of getting four or more Grade embryos or whatever outcomes we're able to measure in the same study. So one, that's very powerful information. Before spending the money and the time and the emotional energy and all that.

It'S a significant amount of money and investment to grow ivf totally. It's massive.

And most of the time it's not covered by insurance. Sometimes it is, which is great. That's a whole other conversation. But. And two, then we can start tracking what things, and I have some ideas of what these are going to be, but what things are going to shift that couple from, from a 12 to a 93 and then at the 93, do they still need IVF? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. Again, blocked fallopian tubes. There's some different, you know, different factors. A colleague of mine, her husband had like zero sperm and they had to have an IVF baby. Like they had to go in and extract. I think they got a few sperm out of his testes, made embryos and their baby is an IVF baby and she's a fertility doctor. And it was something that was completely unavoidable. And so sometimes. So it's how amazing that that is a technology that we have and I think it's probably overutilized right now. And we're working to improve outcomes, but also improve natural outcomes and also improve.

Empowerment at like a 1/1000th or more of the cost. I mean, look at 25 to 50 grand for IVF depending on where you go. Look at the very nominal price of the fertility wise. I mean, it's a no brainer for anybody that's struggling. Y' all share this podcast right now because I know there's somebody that just clicked on the title and they're like, I really want to get pregnant, but I've been told that I can't. I've literally been told that I can't get pregnant. When a doctor actually looks at a woman and says, you can't get pregnant, what does that mean, really?

Well, if we're talking about like the official infertility diagnosis, that diagnosis is just literally saying that you had timed intercourse for 12 months and were not able to conceive or actually six months if you're over 35 in some cases. So it's not, there's no reason there. A lot of times it's unexplained infertility. A lot of times it's not even, a lot of times they haven't even looked at the male partner. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are a lot of good doctors out there and there's, you know, the mainstream is still a little behind. So an infertility diagnosis is really no information and oftentimes very confusing and disheartening and I guess more confusing for a woman when in actuality there's a lot of other things that can be explored and a lot of things that do impact that cellular health, that do impact fertility directly. And so I think that I want to make sure everybody knows that like an infertility diagnosis is not set in stone. And it absolutely, you know, and I agree, doctors are doing the best that they can. I'm doing the best that I can. There's plenty of MDs who disagree with what I'm doing, I'm sure, but we're all doing the best that we can with what we know for what we think will help our patient. Let's look at outcomes. What outcomes are you getting? What outcomes am I getting with my patients? So from this infertility perspective, even just more diagnostics than are used in the current model can be incredibly helpful and enlightening for a lot of women. And then to go to something like this fertility wise test with biological age, with cellular health, and what I've seen is that that cellular health marker, that biological age marker is actually the foundation, like root cause level. Like when you address that through the lifestyle stuff, sometimes supplements, et cetera, then I see blood sugar get better, hormones get better. So I mean, there's so much hope. And that infertility diagnosis really doesn't mean a whole lot.

I think people. And I'll speak, I'll speak to what I guess women would feel and think. And maybe you can correct me when there is this question of oh my God, is what the Doctor told me true, there can be almost a paralyzing effect or a belief that what the Holy Grail said is true. Therefore, I don't need to explore anything else because I've already been told by the powers that be. And this is. I've seen this in my family line, people being diagnosed with stuff. And I'm just like, have you looked at your biomarkers? Have you even looked at all the different clues that dis Ease leaves so that you can heal that first before you believe an outside source of truth instead of trusting yourself? Have you done that yet? Cause if you haven't, it might be really empowering. It might feel good for you to do that. But I'm wondering if you hear this. When people come to you. Cause a woman comes to you in a very special way, a couple comes to you in a very special way. They have to be ready to change the spirit, the mind, the energy, and the biomarkers. If they're not willing to look at all those things, then they're most likely not going to get the right results. But they're clouded. And this is my question. They're clouded by what they were told. That. That fear, that compression it creates in their nervous system.

Yeah, I think there is that, like paralysis. But I mean, when you want something bad enough, when you want a baby bad enough, you're going to start looking for other solutions and other opinions and other options. And maybe my practice is unique and that people, you know, have to find me. They have to choose to work with me. Like, it's not like I'm the PCP that their insurance covers that. Like, they get thrown into the office. Right. So I see couples who are willing to do the work, who want the outcome. And maybe in the general population, not everybody has that level of awareness that that's even possible. So may this conversation serve and reach those people. And may. May whatever energy or conversation reach those people so that they can know that there is another way. And there is. There's always another option. There's always another opinion. And. And with that is hope.

When there's like. I'm thinking of Mount Whitney. Are you a hiker? Do you ever go hiking?

I'm a hiker, but, like, I grew up in Chicago, so, like. And being in L. A. Like, I don't hike, like, real mountains, I must say, but I like to hike in nature.

Or even in LA they call those real mountains. But you have to get, like, way out there to hike a real mountain.

Yeah, yeah.

The reason I asked that is because I think about this journey that a man and woman goes on. But I'll speak directly to the woman because I'm sure that she's been the one that has been casted the shadow on in a doctor's office. Right. Many times more than not. And so for her to get to the top of the summit, which would be being biologically aged, healthy for enough to birth a child into the world, there's more than one path. To get to the summit, it just takes adventure and courage. So I think a woman has to be willing to look at the fact that she actually knows best. And it's finding a different path that maybe isn't cut perfectly by like the Forest Service. It's actually getting to the path maybe in a faster way, maybe in a way that might feel scary and that might feel. I want to be very genuine here. That might feel totally fear inducing to where she doesn't feel supported. But like, that's the path of change. You can't, you can't not have an adventurous soul and find something new. You can't not have an adventurous soul and find a path that was so beautiful and sitting there the whole time. And I know we're talking about fertility and birth, but this, you know, really goes out to every part of life. It's like if I listen to people about how to launch a podcast and how to make a podcast successful, we would have never become at this stage of success nor in the future am I going to listen to people about what I should do. I'm actually going to trust myself and go hiking around the trail that has already been blazed, I think. And I wonder how you feel that's what women really get to do when it comes to being biologically aged, to bring a child into the world. It's actually trusting that they can create a new path. They can blaze a new path 100%.

And I mean, and there has to be the awareness that that's even a possibility.

This is why you all need to share this.

Yeah.

Because how many, literally hundreds of thousand millions of women's lives could be changed? Couples lives, life could run into the world.

Yeah.

If you share this conversation, people forget that on podcasts. They love it because it's long form content that sticks to your soul. But the real power in podcasts is when y' all share. Oh, that's, that's what makes this most meaningful because then it ripples out to lives in the lake that we're all swimming in that you could have never even imagined. You're like, act of generosity, where you share an episode and then somebody shares it with their aunt, who shares it with their neighbor, and then they get pregnant. Like, that's how this works.

Well, and the stories are so important because, like, the. When I have, like, an initial conception consultation with a woman, the first thing she wants to know is, like, have you seen someone like me? And have you had success? Because if somebody else can do it, there's a chance that I can do it.

Yeah.

And so please, yes, share. Like, share the hope, share the message, because there are new paths to be blazed in your own life, and you have to know that it's possible and that you can do it and take the first step.

One of the paths that is traditional is when a MD in their level of consciousness, again, this is not demonizing them. An MD will say to a woman, you're 35. That's a geriatric pregnancy. Is that real?

I mean, that's really the language that they use. Again, there's a lot of disempowering language. And, I mean, I don't even have words to describe it because it's never a term I've even used in my entire practice. But, I mean, if I'll be a geriatric pregnancy, and my honest reaction to that is, like, fuck off. Am I allowed to say that? I don't know. You can cut it if you need to.

I love how kind and polite you are. I know you're probably not cursing with patients. It's very professional, but please drop as many F bombs that. Okay, that will provide emphasis here. That needed.

Yeah, yeah. And I think this is where, like, the biological age marker can be so empowering, both for, like, the patient, the client, the woman, and also in the medical community, it's like, we can reword the verbiage around what age means, both preconception and in pregnancy. And there's people doing research on these epigenetic markers on biological age in pregnancy, both for mom and baby. Very interesting stuff. Very interesting stuff.

What's most interesting that you found?

So during pregnancy, a woman's biological age will accelerate pretty significantly. And then after birth, there's almost like a rebound rewind where her age will decelerate and she'll end up, at least in the studies, about the same age as she should be. So it's like, this is a very dynamic process that our bodies are made to very intentionally accelerate. And. And there's a lot of reasons for that, but. But then there's also, like, how innately wise that we are designed that the body then knows how to heal after that. I mean, assuming we're, you know, doing the right things and we're not, you know, over stressing and we're giving ourselves time to heal and we can actually do that like, fourth trimester thing, which not everybody can do, but that to me was one of the most interesting things. And they're also looking at using biological age markers for gestational age, for like, you know, due dates and things like that. Because right now the way due dates are calculated is by your last menstrual period. But you don't conceive on your last menstrual period. You ovulate two weeks after, and you don't even implant until, you know, maybe a week after that. So, you know, and due dates are like a guest date. But there's a lot of interventions that happen based on that due date. And so there's a woman who's doing research in that area, which is super fascinating to me as well.

What are the biomarkers that are traditionally overlooked by Western care when it comes to fertility?

Well, let's start with what they're actually looking at, because it's not that much. So they'll typically run a few blood markers and maybe do an ultrasound. So the blood markers are going to be an amh, which is looking at like ovarian reserve. How many eggs do you have? When in reality it doesn't mean anything for natural conception. It actually is really just telling us how well your body might respond to stimulation. For an egg retrieval or like an IVF process. They'll check what's called an fsh. And this is the signal from the pituitary gland to the ovary to stimulate the follicle, follicle stimulating hormone. And so this is giving us a good idea of like, how is that signal working? Is the ovary receiving that signal or is the brain having to handle. Yell at the ovary to try and get that egg to ovulate, which is a great marker to have. They'll look at an estradiol, which is your estrogen, a specific estrogen. Usually cycle day, 2, 3. FSH is also going to be that cycle day, like 2, 3. I would say the biggest marker that's being missed in a fertility workup in the conventional world is a progesterone, specifically seven days after ovulation, which is when it should be about at its peak. And that progesterone is necessary for maintaining that pregnancy. And there's a lot of things, including stress, that decrease that progesterone and so if that's the issue, that's a very easy fix in a lot of cases. And it's something that's almost never checked. Like I've had women come to me and they're like, I've had all the tests done, I've had a full workup and they didn't even run a seven day post ovulation progesterone. And I'm like, man, like, that's a lot of information that somebody is overlooking and could very easily draw. And there's some really cool ways to test that at home now. So there's different fertility monitors. You can like pee on a stick throughout the whole month and it'll track your estrogen, your estrogen, your fsh, your lh, which is your ovulation hormone and your progesterone. And you can kind of see what everything's doing the whole cycle. I've been using a lot of that with my patients lately. So progesterone I think is the first, the second, I would say, I would, I would put together like a more comprehensive blood sugar evaluation which would be like a fasting insulin, the A1C, which sometimes they do run that, a fasting glucose, sometimes a postprandial glucose, which means after you've eaten to see how you're responding. Because blood sugar dysregulation can impact a lot of things. It's on, on like the nervous system side, if your blood sugar is dropping too low, which it is for some women, then that sends off like a, an alarm bell in the nervous system, like up danger, like we're going to die if our blood glucose glucose is too low, like pump out the cortisol, pump out the stress hormones. And on the opposite side, if it's too high, then you're, you know, pushing that insulin resistance pre diabetes situation, which can go along with PCOS and even on its own can impact egg quality, cellular health, et cetera. And then on the thyroid side of things, oftentimes we're only seeing a TSH run by the conventional world. So that's thyroid stimulating hormone. That's the signal from the pituitary in the brain to the thyroid gland, telling it how hard to work basically. And if that's within range, and there's even controversy on what that optimal range is for conception because we have a different range in pregnancy now too. So that's, that's one marker. But we also want to see is the, is the gland actually like making the hormone? Like, is it responding to the signal? So that's going to be your T4. And then is that T4 getting converted into T3, which is that bioactive, like what the cell is actually receiving for that thyroid hormone. So that can be an important component. And then thyroid antibodies. Because if a woman has thyroid antibodies, she has definitely an increased risk of miscarriage. And most doctors never check that. And those antibodies can be high even with normal thyroid markers. And usually there's some symptoms, not always, but just that on its own can increase your risk of miscarriage. So this is something that I think should be checked, you know, in that first preconception workup to make sure that's something we would need to head off ahead of time. Right. So there's that component. And then like I mentioned, that cellular health, that biological age kind of, I mean, not kind of. It definitely impacts all of the rest of these biomarkers. It's that cellular health, it's the health of the cell is then going to. You need healthy cells in the thyroid to have healthy thyroid hormone. You need healthy cells, you know, healthy egg cells, healthy, you know, regular, even muscle cells, skin cells to be able to like have taken glucose properly. So there's a lot, I mean, our entire body is impacted by the cellular health marker. So I think it's one of the highest yield tests that we can run, especially in the beginning because so much will correct off of that.

So there's so much power there. And at the core of it all, many of the things in the fertility wise test. By the way, it's on the screen right now. Joshtrend.com forward/clockwise with a Z. Because it's Dr. Zagoni, which I love. It's cool branding. So y' all pick this up and share it with someone. It's code, Josh, for 10% off. And thank you for that because look, it costs real money, real labs. Like growing a business is not easy. Yeah, it's not. So y' all like 10% off is a significant discount. So make sure you take advantage of that. It's on the screen now. Joshtren.com clockwise and I go ahead and.

We, we give so much support and, and information with that test. Like not you get the fast framework, but one of the things we've added more recently is we actually have two live calls a month with me so somebody can jump on and ask questions about their report about how to do the fast framework. And then one of those calls, sometimes both of those calls, depending on how many questions we actually also typically go through some sort of mind, body, exercise or Movement practice, somatic practice, something to actually like embody all the stuff that we're talking about with fertility. So right now that's included when you do the fertility wise test. If you haven't done the fertility wise test, you can pay for that. Yeah, but we're really trying to just help as many women and couples as possible and help bring these baby souls to planet Earth.

Listen, the call for baby souls to come to Earth is really loud. It's. I think it's more. It's always been loud because that's how our species continues. But now I think there's a really special human wanting to come here because the amount of maturity and the amount of mastery that that human being will need to embody could not be more bolstered by the demands of modernity. Modernity is very challenging for a lot of reasons. One, being we're disconnected from nature. Two, being a lot of women's and men's voices have been silenced. And three, intuition is blunted because we believe in something outside of ourselves. There's a lot more there, but I think those are like the big three. And I wonder when you were talking because I. This is how I feel, y', all. And I don't know how y' all feel, but you tell me in the comments, when someone is bringing pure wisdom and like you just did when you talked about the follicle stimulating hormone. I see pictures. I see pictures in my mind when someone's describing something. That's how I stay present. So when you're speaking, I'm seeing a picture in my mind with my eyes open, watching you speak. And I was thinking about the little follicle and the, the egg and the transit and the messaging going back and forth with, with the body. Do you think the ovary is informed by the soul?

Ooh, that's a good question. The ovary or the egg cell or.

Or like do you think that communication mechanism key being the, the follicle stimulating hormone, in what way do you believe that might be informed by the.

So the way I kind of see reality, we're going to like go up and then kind of come down back to that specific.

Sounds fun.

Is the interface between spirit and matter to me from my training and I've done, and this comes from biodynamic craniosacral therapy, which I did a two year training in the interface between spirit and matter is the cerebrospinal fluid. But I actually, I think it's a little more nuanced than that, but it's within the nervous system. So I think the cerebral spinal fluid plays a role, but nervous system based. And that brain, that pituitary gland part of the brain is receiving signals, I would say from the soul, from the spirit, but also from like all sorts of external input. So what percentage. You know, let's say FSH is being secreted at a specific level. How much of that is being, is external input? How much of that is like soul informed? I don't know if we could say.

It's hard to quantify the soul.

Yeah, hard to quantify.

The soul is something that's always easy to quantify.

Yeah. But I would say through the nervous system, through that like electrical potential. And so every cell has the resting membrane potential, which is like that electricity. And I think there is a soul informed component. There's an external component through the nervous system, through that pituitary gland. And there's other regulation as well. Like the pineal gland is regulating biorhythms. FSH is going to change throughout your menstrual. Like there's a lot of rhythms that are happening that again, that what I would actually still call more external input.

Sure. But the circadian rhythm is something that if we don't follow that, it creates disease. Right. The, the, the clockwise of the earth is important because when we go against sleep, wake cycle, then a lot of our melatonin and cortisol and just things go haywire when we're not following the natural sleep, dark.

Yeah.

And light, wake cycles of nature. Right. So that is a connect. So our soul needs to tune into that and trust in that in some way. In a big way, actually. So I wonder how the soul would. And I love how I'm just putting you on the spot and asking you in real time. No, it's a fascinating question because you painted the picture with your words that I saw in my mind about this FSH and how there's so many different forces and energies that come together for that egg to be released, for the sperm to penetrate. Which, by the way, I want to talk to you before we leave about the egg selecting the sperm.

Yeah.

Which is quite fascinating that flies in the face of everything we've been taught. But just if you will just play with me. Like I wonder if there's any other way that you could put your finger on now or not. If the soul informs these different communication pathways within the womb of the woman, it's got to be.

I mean, so this is not gonna be specific to your FSH question, but where I see the soul informing the Physiology and informing the body is a lot in the energetics. And so some of that is part, like, nervous system. Some of that is fascia. But there is, like, an etheric or energetic field. Some people call it an aura. I think there's actually a lot more anatomy to the energetics than most people realize. Probably more than I realize, for sure. And I think that energetics also then inform on a tissue level. Like, I think there's a lot of wisdom throughout the body, throughout the fascia, not just in the brain, but the nervous system is throughout the entire system. And it's that electrical component. There's this energetic component with the womb specifically. I mean, there's also, like, I believe I. I think there's a lot I'm not going to understand and maybe not be able to convey. But what I see, what I feel, what I trust is that because there's connection to other souls, like, there's got to be a connection to this baby soul. For this soul to come in and in the womb space specifically, I have this trust. And maybe this is the soul that, like the right egg with the right epigenetics for that soul is going to be the one that's being ovulated in that time when that baby wants to come out. And I think that translates to how our own timing of, like, when are we feeling that urge, and not just the urge to have sex, but, like, that urge to have, like, connected lovemaking, which isn't necessary for conception necessarily. But the Taoists believe that the energy that is present between the man and the woman during conception is what creates that child's constitution. So there's a lot of consciousness that can be brought to that process. But I believe the soul is the conductor of the orchestra in the physiology, but also in the urges of when we feel called to try. As long as we're listening and not imposing our own control timeline on it. The ovulation of, like, that perfect egg, the generation of that perfect sperm, which, by the way, start three months before they actually leave the body. Which is why we say three months to prepare. So I believe. I believe that the soul is like the. The orchestra conductor for the. For the body. And part of that is that it has to communicate both. Both with that pituitary gland and with that ovary and on the cell. And I think the better the cells can communicate through that electrical potential. Also supports the soul's transmission through the tissues.

That was a transmission right there. I was seeing a lot of things. Everybody was seeing a lot of pictures in their mind when you were talking about that. Okay, then. So if that's the foundation for the next question, which I believe it is, if what you're saying is true on some level, maybe on many levels, then common wisdom in medicine shares that the egg is penetrated by the strongest sperm. But that's not the case. Why is that?

So when that egg is released, fertilization actually happens in what's the upper outer third of the Fallopian tube. So that egg is released and it comes out. And we need the right sperm hanging out in that part of the tube at the right time. But there's going to be a lot of sperm around that egg that are trying to get in. And what we now know in science is that that egg actually chooses which sperm it's going to allow to penetrate it. And when it does that, you get like this. The sperm have pointy heads. I don't know if you know this or not, but that pointy head fuses with the outside of the egg and creates what's called the acrosome reaction. And there's actually a spark of light that happens. When that happens, then the outer part of the egg then blocks any other sperm from being able to connect with it. And that's.

And then you have your embryo that's so powerful, it. It's actually playing out in life because women always select who penetrates them. In a conscious world. In a conscious world, women always select who penetrates them, who their mate is going to be.

Yeah.

This is why Jordan Peterson talks so much about selection and the lobster and, and, and mating and, you know, hypergamy and hierarchy. Because on some level, and you could try to describe it with words, but I think it's something that can only be felt. A woman chooses who she wants to have a baby with. A man chooses the woman that he wants to have a baby with. But it's just different for us. It really is, because. And I shared this with you on a call once. I'm curious how you feel about this. When a man has done enough work to prepare himself to be ready to bring life into the world, and it's genuine, he will reach out, much like the egg selecting the sperm and then the spark of light and the closure so no other sperms can get in, a man will do that as well. So that feminine energy, that selective feminine energy, lives within a man, too, because he selects when he's done enough work, the right woman who's around him at that time. So in other words, he could be in Barbados. Pacific Beach, Louisiana. It doesn't matter where he is. He's going to have the intuitive, non verbally communicated capacity to be able to see and feel who this woman is, because he himself has prepared his own egg. I know that's, like, interesting verbiage, but his egg, meaning his dynasty, his life, his future, his. His containment of the family, his. His acknowledgement of his own capacity to provide and to be a trusted anchor for a family. Like, that's a real man, in my opinion. And so he has to develop a lot of qualities before he's ready to do that. And so then once he develops those qualities, he's essentially built his own egg. And then he goes and selects a woman that's around him. And there could be at a bar. I'm thinking of PB where there's, like, women everywhere.

You know, it's like.

I mean, you could find somebody great at a bar. I'm not knocking that, but most of those people are going through a journey of consciousness. They just don't know it yet. I'm sure a lot of people meet at bars and get married. I wonder how you feel about that. The difference between how a woman prepares energetically, spiritually, emotionally, physically to how a man prepares to bring in life to the world, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially. Right. What do you make of the difference between the two? I loved your analogy of the egg and the spark of light and the closure that is such a. It's so. The human body is so beautiful. Women's bodies deserve so much respect in different ways than men's bodies. There's no such thing as this homogenous. There's no gender. It's like, no, there's gender. There's definitely gender. Okay, go ahead.

Yeah, Remind me the question I'm answering.

I just had so much. I just had so much fun with you. And by the way, it's not even that there's gender. It's that there's sex. Right. That's what I'm really trying to say. There is. You're a female, I'm a male. Men cannot give birth. That's just not something real. And if y' all want to think that, that's great. I'm not here to tell you how to think. This isn't a political conversation. This is a conversation about birth. But I will say that, like, there's just certain ways that women need to be very, very honored in ways that they're different than men. And I think the. One of the biggest, core differences among many differences is the fact that I, as a Man. And no biological male could ever bring a baby into the world. It's not true. It's a fantasy that you're asking for our participation in, and I won't participate in your fantasy. Now the question I'm asking you is the man prepares himself in a certain way, the woman prepares herself in a certain way. What's the difference between the two in the way that you see it?

I think for men there's like a growing up that needs to happen and like a responsibility first for their own lives and then for the family. And I've seen this in my couples in some interesting ways where, like, the dad likes to play a lot of video games and doesn't help out around the house. And like the wife runs the household and works full time and is doing all the things to prepare, and he's just kind of like a big kid. And that's not great on the fertility side of things, in my opinion. Maybe not great on the family dynamics, relationship side of things, but yeah, it's not my reality, thankfully.

Yeah.

And so I think the growing up, I'm just gonna call it growing up is really important. And I think part of the issue we have in society today is that we don't have rites of passage for men or really for women. But I think we're starting with like the womb circles and the menstrual cycle and all of that, you know, but there isn't this like, demarcation of like, okay, you're a man now. This is what it means to be a man. And now here's how you be a man and act and do and all of that. And I think that's why we have a lot of very immature, you know, like, you know, 45 year old, very wealthy running around town, but can't, you know, and maybe they want kids, maybe they don't. Everybody should live the life that they want.

Yeah.

And I'm, you know, kind of, kind of making stuff up, kind of. Not from what I've actually seen, but it's a growing up.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's it.

Wow, I love that. Because as you're talking, you know what I was thinking? Peter Pan.

Yeah.

This is why Disney created Peter Pan. It's an archetype of adult child. That's really what it is. And so I'm not here to shame men. I'm not here to shame anyone, actually, including myself. It took me a long time. It took me a long time, Katherine, to be ready for this. And this is why this test that you've created in your work that you're doing is so special and so needed. Because when maturity meets technology, beautiful things can happen. When immaturity meets technology, look the fuck out. I mean, look at what's going on with our phones and the unconscious use of technology and AI. It's kind of like we talked about earlier. The souls coming in are needing to be very mature, very integrated souls. The babies that are coming in, they're going to be facing a lot that, let's be honest, our mothers and fathers and our grandparents didn't have to face. They had their own struggles, but not struggles like you and I, and definitely not struggles like my children and your future children. So as we round the conversation, I wonder. Go ahead.

Well, I think the souls coming in are going to teach us quite a bit. Like, I think they're going to teach us how to be better humans. Whether it's because they need more patience and time and attention and presence, or they have other gifts that we aren't even aware exist yet. When I started my practice 10 years ago, I ended up in an office with this guy. I call him my spiritual psychologist. And he said, why are you here? And I said, like, in your office or in life? And he's like, well, how about both? And I said, I feel like I'm supposed to help bring these baby souls in that are gonna, like, I don't know, like, do big things like clean the oceans and save the rainforests and that and that sort of thing. And I'm like, but maybe just be like a big ball of light. Like, maybe that's what some of these are beings that are coming in are just here to do. And I, like, I truly believe that the souls that are coming in are either going to be the ones doing that or they're going to be the ones training us, inspiring us, teaching us, helping us to be who we need to be to shift things on the planet and for humanity. So, yes, they're facing a lot, but I also think they're going to be great teachers for us.

Agreed, agreed. Because we share that same vantage point. But, you know, through conversations like this, I think other people's level of care or vantage point could actually be able to receive what you just shared. Because receiving what you just shared is so powerful. But developing the mental construct to even receive it is, I think, really what these babies might be helping us with. Because what you just shared is wise, right? Fertility wise, clockwise, and wisdom.

With a Z.

With a Z. With a Z. See, that's real. Wisdom is also shared with humor. With fun. And I get that from you. Like, you're in touch with your little girl. And that's a testament to the plant medicine work you've done to the life you've led. I don't think it's actually efficacious for us to be so stoic in our wisdom that we can't have fun with it. Like, there's got. As Alan Watts said, there has to be some rascality to us. Right?

In the church that I sit with, one of our main tenants is healing as a response to happiness.

And.

And I share that with my couples. And sometimes I will write prescriptions for fun and joy and silliness and all of that sort of stuff, because it's absolutely a wonderful, beautiful part of life, and it is healing, and it's important that we bring that energy to our lives, to our relationships, and to these babies coming in.

This is something that has been in my awareness for a good two months now. Solid. How do I hold my childlike joy and let young Josh come out to put play and be mature and take care of my responsibilities in the world? How do I hold both of those worlds and live that through me? And I really do believe it's the masculine and the feminine inside of me. It's not like people hear that phrase all the time. Masculine, feminine, polarity, blah, blah, blah. It's just like, there's a lot of info out there. I think that's how we do it. And I wonder when we look at how men and women do birth and do conception and pregnancy, just this whole. If you were to float 30,000ft above our table today when we've been talking, what else do you think really gets to be shared? What do we miss? What really gets to be shared in an understanding of biological age? Being proactive about health so that you can catch it early. And also any fallacies that maybe we didn't talk about when it comes to fertility, what else needs to be shared, man?

We talked about a lot, Josh.

I mean, for a man talking about.

How can we talk about how the soul. Soul transmits through fsh?

This is how my brain works. Well, because you paint good pictures, and I'm, like, seeing the pictures that you paint, so. But what else needs to be shared?

Let's go. You know, one of the things that maybe we glossed over when we were talking about, like, the soul and in the body is the womb space, specifically.

Okay.

And I think for women, that womb space is something that holds a lot of trauma, and that can be physical trauma. Either from someone else or from not honoring your own boundaries. I know I had a lot of fun, you know, in my early years. I hope my fiance's not listening and probably said yes to things that I didn't really want in my heart. Yeah, but we're like, oh, but it'll feel good to have that approval and that attention, and you know that. And I think that's a part of growing up, and I think that it's a part of growing up for a lot of people. And there's an aspect of that gets held in the womb space, and it can be sexual or not. Sometimes we can hold other things in the womb space that aren't necessarily related to sexual encounters. But a beautiful prayer that I was gifted and shared from one of the indigenous cultures that I've worked with is that the womb is not a place to store fear or pain. The womb is a place to create and give birth to life. And so I would invite all of my mamas to be. And this. And this space impacts the epigenetics. It impacts how safe you feel in your body and how safe that baby can feel in your womb. But I would invite all my mamas to just start to have an awareness of that space, to feel into that space, to have a practice of sitting and being with that space and allowing whatever needs to come up and come out and be released to be released. Because I think we see a ton of menstrual disorders, endometriosis, fibroids. There's a lot of pathology that we're seeing today in that space in women. And yes, toxins are a big component of that. And I think when trauma is stuck in that area, it impacts how that area on a cellular level, how it can detoxify, and there's some combination that then ends up creating the pathology. But I've also seen incredible healing when women can be with that area and can heal through whatever happened in the past, whether it's forgiveness for self, for making a choice, whether it's. I mean, there's a lot of directions that could go. But again, just starting with presence, being with it, and inviting whatever healing wants to happen in that space. So it might be releasing. It might be welcoming in light. It might be being able to be comfortable in the darkness. Because there's an aspect of the feminine energy that, like, you have to go through the darkness, through the tunnel, like birth. You gotta go. You gotta. You gotta go through to come out. And there can be dark nights of the soul, and there can be a lot that's held in that area that doesn't have to be, and that we can open and create space so that that baby soul can come in and can occupy that space and not the trauma and not the resentment and not anger, fear, etc.

It's very wise. No, I mean, I say that because it's in your logo and it's in your business, but there's a reason why you chose that. That name and that word wise. And it's no surprise that you've just dropped so much wisdom today on wellness and wisdom. So thank you for being here. And you know, this my favorite question, the one that makes my hands curl. I'm like, I love this question because ever since I was a little, tiny boy, I was like, something's off here. I think there's a better way. I think there's a better way to live. And I went through my own journey to figure it out. And for the past nine years, I've been figuring out this question, you know, humbly, honestly, not always just sharing the good stuff. And I wonder for you, this. This question of wellness. How do we live our life? Well, what is well being to you as a future mother, as a physician, as a partner, as a human being? You know, how do you define wellness? What does well being mean to you?

To me? Well, being means living in alignment between our thoughts, our feelings, and our actions and our physical body, and using that alignment to move from our center and from our truth.

So y' all just take that in? I mean, it made me close my eyes. Because when you hear the truth, there's the. There's a pause in yourself. And I think that's why the. The objective truth, not the subjective, but the objective, high seeing truth, it just. We know it when we hear it. So I felt that when you shared that, and I'm just so happy that we got to cover this. You know, for a man, myself, on the path of spiritual growth, of learning how to be a great father and a great lover and a great man to carry. Michelle. And just a great support to me, it's been hard sometimes. And I want to share with y', all, like, if you're struggling with having a baby, it does not have to be so hard. It doesn't. It literally doesn't. On the screen right now is a link, joshtrend.com clockwise with a Z, hit that link, go to the website, and when you're there, get this very affordable test that is like, literally probably 12000 of the price of IVF and test some of this stuff that literally just they're not going to test if you go to traditional MD and use the code Josh for 10% off. Because this can literally shorten your suffering curve. You can change someone's life by just sharing this podcast, sharing that link with them.

And I want to say one more thing about the like, it doesn't have to be this hard. Yeah, sometimes we can't change the journey, so it might still take the same amount of time that it's going to take, but we can choose to not be a victim to it. And we can choose to see it as the journey of becoming the mother that I'm meant to be or becoming the father that I'm meant to be. Creating that resilience, creating that self trust, learning to trust your intuition. Because sometimes that's the most important part and sometimes that's why it's taking longer.

Solid podcast. Thank you for the conversation. Really love. See, I told you in person. Y' all need to just listen to the in person podcast. It's not like the ones on Zoom or on Riverside or online are bad. There's just something special about magic, being here in person with someone. So y' all share this podcast. Make sure you go to joshtrend.com podcast also, all the resources today are linked below. Wherever you're watching this or listening to this. Dr. Catherine, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much, Josh. Thank you for what you're doing in the world. Good work.

Feels good to receive that from you. Thank you. Okay, until we both see you again on another podcast, until I speak with you again next week, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon. If you're feeling something good from our content from these videos, from these world class human beings on the Wellness of Wisdom podcast, click subscribe. Watch one of these and I'll see you in the next video.