Greg Schmaus | Healing The Mind: A Journey To Wholeness

In reality, anytime we need to go through a healing process, it's because there's parts of ourselves that we've divorced ourselves from. There's childhood wounds, there's trauma, there's this, there's that, there's unresolved emotions, and there's all of these parts that we try and divorce ourselves from and try and bypass. And that creates a lot of stress. That creates a lot of stress in the body, a lot of stress in the psyche. So the healing process is really bringing those parts home.

Greg, welcome back to Wellness Force. It's been a little bit over a year. We got some things to cover. Thank you for coming back on the show.

Oh, man, I'm so excited and so grateful to be here with you. You and I have been a journey together, which I'm sure we're going to get into and share.

Yes, we have, man. And last time you came on, we talked about, really your story and healing OCD and boosting mental health. And we're in the middle of the plandemic. And that's not to disrespect anyone, because I know you actually went through Covid yourself. Maybe you can share a little bit about that.

Yeah. So my experience with COVID was interesting. I do feel as though there's divine purpose and learning opportunities behind all of it. And I think the pain teacher often shows up when one is out of balance and one has something to learn and grow from. And for me, the experience with COVID was, number one, a confirmation of what I felt like I already knew, which was a lot of my beliefs around the virus and the origin of it. Number two, I really felt strongly that it was an opportunity for me to reground myself and connect with nature. I kept saying to myself, the best thing to clear an unnatural virus is to be in the natural world. And I felt as though anytime I was out grounding myself in nature, I felt really healthy and vital. And anytime I was overstimulating myself electromagnetically, I felt really poor. I felt as though Covid was really an opportunity to shine light on a lot of our underlying fears, a lot of our unresolved wounds. And it was very much a quickener in terms of an awakening. It was very much. It kind of sped up the awakening of consciousness inside of me and what I was creating, where I was still blocked and where I really needed work. And one thing that I felt was it was more of an integration process. And I definitely felt that as I did the integration work, I almost felt like I had access to more and if you really go through this process naturally, not artificially, you have access to more, and you can tap into more, but if you approach it with fear and try and protect yourself from it, you're the one that becomes accessible to others.

Huh. When you say more, what do you mean by more? You say access to more.

I felt like my intuition was heightened. I felt like from a subtle energy perspective, I could tap into more. I felt like my meditation practice, everything was much deeper. So when I was working with clients, I felt like I can access, you know, healing a lot faster. So I felt like I had access to more within the field, but in terms of the other way around. People who are trying to protect themselves from it rather than open themselves up to the opportunity is you become the one that's accessed. So it's you approach it out of love and integration, or you approach it out of fear and disconnection that determines your relationship with whether you grow from it or whether you really kind of break down and struggle.

Yes.

So I felt. I mean, that there was. There was a lot of supplements and, you know, breath work and sauna and all the things that I was doing that was really supportive, but those were some of the deeper messages for me was we need to reground ourselves in nature. And you know something Zach Bush talks about, who you've had on your podcast many times, is we've literally written ourselves out of the definition of nature. It's literally become us versus them.

Yeah.

And this kind of war in this battle against the invisible world, not realizing that we are an expression of it and are here to live in harmony with it. So that, to me, was the most important thing. And then also utilizing these opportunities as, like, Zach Bush talks about upgrades, it's really an upgrade. It's really information coming into the system that we integrate and we utilize for our own awakening, for our own growth. And that was a huge opportunity for me. But what has to happen first is you have to really expel all of the fear and all of the shadow, and you really have to dive into those parts of yourself that, from my experience with COVID brings up pretty quickly, almost like a shamanic journey. The medicine accesses the parts of you that you don't want to look at.

Wow, Greg, I love. We're already going deep. We're like five minutes in. We're already touching the real heart of this conversation, man. And that is your program, what you stand for. And it's just been such a joy to really, like, support you fundamentally in this creation of healing. The Mind like, this program is going to change so many lives. For people that haven't watched the previous episode with Greg, we'll link that in the show notes. It's episode 356. We talked about boosting mental health naturally, healing, OCD naturally. This program that Greg has come out with, it's totally the next level. It's like a 20x based on really 15, 20 years of his life. Greg, for people that don't know you, man, let's say they haven't listened to episode 356 and they're like, okay, I like what Greg is saying. I like Greg's energy because I like Greg's energy too. But if people don't know you, man, in a few sentences, who are you and what do you do for our world right now? Maybe a paragraph, something like that.

Yeah. So I work as a holistic health coach, a Czech practitioner, shamanic energy healer, and I'm a licensed massage therapist. But really I, you know, my purpose here is to help the awakening of consciousness, to really use people's healing journeys, people's struggles, people's challenges, and help coach them through, to have a greater understanding of how everything is here to help us, how all of these challenges are opportunities for us to grow. And this was really a strong message for me on my journey, which started after a physical trauma. And then I started having a lot of mental health challenges, ocd, anxiety, physical health challenges, gut issues, things like that. And I went on my own healing journey, which Paul Check, a mutual friend of ours, was really my guide on that journey. And it really opened my eyes as to how, you know, my health crisis, physically, mentally, was really leading me and delivering me to my life's work, to my life's purpose. And now I use a lot of my experiences in my journey as a vehicle to share what I have to offer as my gifts to the world and my clients and my students. And this program is really a reflection of that healing journey. And what was really interesting for me, recording and filming and putting this course together with the support of you, which was incredible, was I didn't have to do any research, I didn't have to go read any books, I didn't have to go take any courses. I've read a lot of books and taken a lot of courses, but everything in this course is an expression of my own life. It's an expression of my life as my classroom, as my laboratory, as my course. And all of the lessons that I share in this course are lessons that I've learned really in My own life on my own journey.

Yes.

So that's really where I gave birth to healing the minds.

And this is what separates someone that has experience from someone that has great intentions. Because I noticed a lot of people out there have the most beautiful intentions, Craig. But sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And there's a lot of people that are trying their best to help other people, but they don't have the experience. Like, we live in a paradoxical world, man. There's, there's a lot here for us to, to feel into. And when I even think about the concept of healing, right, healing the mind. This is your three week program and this is not, in my opinion, it's way bigger than a course. I think really it's graduating and it will continue to graduate into being a worldwide program. Because this isn't like really an ancillary guide to you learning how to heal yourself, which is the biggest and most bold thing we could ever do. I think so many of us, Greg, and maybe you've fallen into this trap. I'm curious how you feel about this. We tend to put the trust in healing ourselves onto other people rather than utilize the skills and the experience of other people so we can heal ourselves. You talk about this in your work as the peace paradox. You know, there is a true way to quiet the mind and to find the stillness. Is it really something that's simple or is it way more nuanced and complex? I'm guessing it's that one.

It's both.

Okay.

It's super complex and it's super simple. On the highest level, it's super simple. But on a day to day level, it can get complex. But really healing the mind and the healing process is all about integration. And in reality, anytime we need to go through a healing process, it's process. It's because there's parts of ourselves that we've divorced ourselves from. There's childhood wounds, there's trauma, there's this, there's that, there's unresolved emotions and there's all of these parts that we try and divorce ourselves from and try and try and bypass. And that creates a lot of stress. That creates a lot of stress in the body, a lot of stress in the psyche. The healing process is really bringing those parts home, bringing the wounded child home, resolving this trauma, resolving this relationship. In reality, the mind is really like a watchdog that's looking out for our protection, for our safety, for our survival. Anytime the mind is really overactive, it's really just looking out for our safety, security, and survival. And 90% of our thoughts are negative because of that, because it's the negative things that are a threat to our survival. So that's why our mind is that watchdog that keeps barking. But the more and more our nervous system is out of balance and stuck in a fight or flight state because of the way we're eating, the way we're relating, the way we're not resting, the way we're engaging the world in ourselves, the more that that. The more that that mind, that watchdog, is kind of like on high alert. So a lot of the trauma also keeps us in a fight or flight state. So it's really about shifting out of that sympathetic fight or flight state, using the breath, using the body, using grounding, using all of these tools that we know are so supportive, shifting into that parasympathetic state where our bandwidth of integration now becomes a little wider. Remember, when someone's in a stress response, they're not open to receiving anything new because anything new is a threat to their sense of control and their sense of survival. The first step to healing is actually we need to balance an overstimulated nervous system. Then we open the bandwidth of. Now this person is accessible. Now this person can integrate the parts of themselves that they've been divorcing themselves from for so many years. And as the nervous system calms down, the mind starts to calm down, that watchdog feels safe, can go to sleep. And now we can really start that integration process and really get to a place of stillness and a place of wholeness.

You know what I was feeling when you were talking, Greg? So many things, but I visualized this moment. We took our boy to the pediatrician, and we're sitting in the office and I'm just flipping through this pamphlet and there was like, hey, you know, if there's stress at home or if the parents are getting a divorce, because you, you mentioned we divorce ourselves, then the baby will naturally have more GI symptoms and more crying and more colic potentially. And I just thought, how is that any different than the child inside of us?

It's just a mirror.

It is literally the same thing. So if we divorce ourselves, of course the watchdog is going to start yapping, but it's actually there for our protection. I want to go one step deeper into that. So you came up with this really methodology of working with clients across the world. You've pulled from Paul, you pulled from all your different teachers. There's something unique about you when it comes to this experience, because you yourself have actually gone through it. Like, you guys, go listen to 356 right now. See the difference in energy of how Greg is showing up. See how much he's grown. See how he's still the same, yet uniquely different. So, Greg, when we look at this one step deeper of divorcing ourselves and why the watchdog starts yapping, are we abandoning ourselves? Are we dishonoring ourselves? Can you give, like, some examples and really, really some nuts and bolts on how we actually do that and why that occurs?

So it's a paradox. Once again, everything is a paradox. Of course, we all have wounds that we experience at a young age as a child, into our teenage years, but usually much younger. Let's say it's rejection or abandonment, right? Say we have the wounds of rejection and abandonment. What happens is once we have those wounds, the psyche, basically the ego, says we need to do everything we possibly can to avoid ever re experiencing those wounds. Because we felt vulnerable, we felt unsafe, our sense of survival was threatened. So whatever happens, avoid rejection, avoid abandonment, because that's not safe. We were wounded like that once, and we're never going to be wounded like that again. What do we start doing to avoid that? We start wounding ourself in the same way, right? So it's, I'm going to reject myself before you can. I'm going to abandon myself and be who I think you need me to be. So I'm abandoning my true self out of the fear that if I'm my true self, you might abandon me. So the divorce is, how are you rejecting yourself in the same way that you got rejected when you were younger? And it's almost like the ego's control mechanism. If I reject myself, I don't give you the opportunity to reject me. So I feel more in control. If I'm not my true self and I become who I think Josh wants me to be, I've abandoned myself. But I have less of a chance of Josh abandoning me because I'm becoming who I think he wants me to be. So you see, the divorce is the paradox of self wounding.

We pay such a price in this lifetime, and that is honestly a big part of. Of what cause unwellness or dis ease in the mind, in the body, in the heart, in the etheric realm. And then, of course, we're not going to have time to talk about this today, but I'll link this in the show notes, a conversation we had with Mark Wolnan exploring generational patterns, which I know you explore that in your work too. Because, gosh, this is so many layers. But we have to have a starting place, Greg, and the starting place that I think you provide to people, and I've sent friends to you, I've linked your work. We had tens of thousands of downloads, 200 shares on our last episode we had together. So people are hungry for this work. And it's because we're in a time right now that is really fucking intense. I can't. I'm 41 years old. I can't think of a time that has been more intense than now. It's even more intense than 2020, even though 2020 was like when the pandemic came and when the intensity was around. Now, I think, Greg, and I'm curious how you feel about this. I think we're starting to see the wave actually coming to the creschette, the crescendo. Like, I'm starting to see the white on the top of the wave of COVID Of the wave of lockdowns. We haven't seen it yet. So if you're with us right now and you're kind of feeling that wave coming at you too, this is the starting place where we can prepare for the wave that's coming, prepare for the storm that we possibly are feeling inside of ourselves, Deal with the storm that's happening in our heart, in our body, in our mind. This concept of healing the mind, we touched on a little bit more. When you really want to heal the mind, you have to understand that so below as above. You have to understand that. So tell us about that and how it relates to healing the mind and all these storms that we're experiencing. This concept of so below as above.

Well, so below as above for me is very much the body and the mind mirroring each other. So the health of the mind is dependent on the health of the body. The health of the mind is only. Can only be as healthy as the body it's living in. Anytime the body's unhealthy and out of balance, whether it's inflammation in the gut or foods you're intolerant to or over exercising, you create a stress response. Anytime you create a stress response, like I was sharing earlier, you create a stress response in the mind and that mental watchdog starts going off. But in terms of that internal storm, what was coming up for me, that is really important is your previous question, when you asked, is it complex or is it simple? And I said both. I shared the complexity. I shared parts of the complexity. But the simplicity is if you're willing to Fully surrender. Things take care of themselves. So it's very often how deeply are you willing to surrender to your present experience? How deeply are you willing to surrender to what's rising up in you? How deeply are you willing to be present and feel what you're feeling inside of your body, inside of your heart? How deeply are you willing to surrender to what you're experiencing in your mind? And to me, the healing, the mind is about a surrender, really. What's happening with the world? Is everything so polarized? What we're seeing? What's rising up is this dance of polarity, of the positive and the negative, the masculine and the feminine, the light and the dark, the should and the shouldn't. And what happens in the mind and in the psyche is we attach ourselves to everything that we call positive. We divorce ourselves and try and resist anything we call negative. So that's kind of like this push pull game. And all of a sudden we create a stress response. Because attaching to positive creates suffering. Avoiding the negative creates suffering. The surrender is, can you sit right in the middle, knowing that the two are necessary to create wholeness? That's where you sit in the eye of the storm, there's the witness inside of you, the observer. That is just the nonjudgmental awareness that no matter what storm is going on inside of you or outside of you, there's always the witness, the observer, that sits right in the eye where it's perfectly still and you can watch the whole thing unfold. So that's a really important thing, is can you be aware of the storm going on in the world? Can you be aware of the storm going on inside of you? Engage it, but also be able to witness it at the same time. That's really where the magic happens, is learning to engage and to witness simultaneously. That's really what the great spiritual, meditative teachers were talking about, is play the game of life, but also know you're the one watching it.

And then the question, Greg, the question is, who's watching the watcher? Who's watching the watcher? You can go down the rabbit hole on that one. And I really think that if we can spend time, like you said, in nature and with some of these tools, what else they can help us. They can really help us heal the mind. Because the opposite of depression is expression, right? The opposite of anxiety is presence. So we're always trying to find some kind of homeostatic mechanism. Yet if we're not doing the work, like you said, to really be with what is like, hey, I Don't like where I live. I don't like this body I'm in. I don't like the partnership I'm in. I don't like my career, whatever it is. Those things, Greg, they're all part and parcel of, I think, why we tend to divorce or really abandon ourselves because we're afraid. We're afraid of what might happen if we were to take a real honest inventory and look in the mirror and be like, okay, there's some things that must change because there's things that are paying the price for them not changing. Like, where do you go with someone that's beginning to feel this come up in them? Maybe they're feeling all of this arise. Is there a certain starting place that you put people on? Is there a certain inventory that you even prepare somebody for? A three week deep dive program like Healing the Mind.

Well, that's why my program is divided into the three weeks. And week one is foundation, which is really setting a foundation of healthy living and healthy lifestyle practices. Like, before we get into any of the complexity, we always want to address the simplicity. One thing that's going on with our culture is we're addicted to complexity and we overlook the basics, no doubt. And this pandemic is showing a lot of that. We have vaccines and this and that and mask wearing and social distancing. But it's like, are you eating real food? Are you getting to bed on time? Are you drinking clean water? Are you moving your body? Are you managing your stress? And most of the time the answer is no. So we put the cart before the horse. So that's why week one is setting the foundations. Let's get your diet cleaned up, let's get your sleep and sleep hygiene dialed in. Let's get you breathing properly, let's get you moving properly, working in, stretching and mobilizing and not just working out all the time. Let's get some morning routines and rituals, setting aside sacred time and all the necessary things to just get baseline health, then baseline health is just the prerequisite to then diving into the deeper work. If we dive into the deeper work before doing a lot of the foundational principles, we never get lasting results because that nervous system is still under stress if the body's out of balance. So none of that deeper work is possible because like I said, the bandwidth is too narrow. When someone's in a stress response, they're not going to explore their shadow, they're not going to explore their core archetypes, they're not going to explore their core addictions. All that stuff we explore in week two. But week one, we need to get a healthy foundation first before we can dive in any further.

Do you ever find that working with clients that they might sabotage themselves in week one or in the first couple weeks of working with you? Because it's almost as if. And I've felt this before too, and I've seen this. Their subconscious is directing them, just like our subconscious is always directing us at all times. And their subconscious knows that if they start breathing properly, drinking clean water, eating healthy foods, moving in a way that's loving and nourishing to their body, exploring their subconscious and really knowing the pain teacher, which is what I want to dig in with you big on. That's how we started our podcast, talking about pain. Have you seen this happen where people will sabotage the fundamental things and try to like, skip over the fundamentals to get to the more hard stuff? Because that's where the answer has to be.

Yeah, that's the addiction to complexity too. And it's a lot of that sabotage is almost like the ego protecting itself, saying, it can't be that simple.

It's not that simple.

It can't be that easy. Like, drink water, eat real, no food gets a better time. Like, really, I got some complex shit going on.

What else is it, Greg?

So when it comes to the saboteur, there's usually three reasons why we self sabotage. There's a fear a lot of people have, a fear of healing. And a lot of people get their needs met by not healing. Right. A lot of times when we have a health crisis, it's the first time we actually felt loved and supported by others. When we have a health crisis, a part of us gets addicted to playing the victim. When we have a health crisis and we play the victim, we're looking for a rescuer. So self responsibility is a threat to the victim inside of us. There's a part of us that also self sabotages when we have limiting beliefs or unresolved emotional wounds. Maybe getting yourself healthy is actually uncovering things like, wow, I'm not happy in my marriage. Wow, I'm not happy in my job. Maybe someone is there on workman's comp or something. Like they have time that they're getting off and they're getting paid, but they have to go through physical therapy or something. I've had a lot of clients that really told me how much they hated their work, but because of their illness and because of their injury, they didn't have to go to work. So actually healing meant they would have to go back to a job that they hated. So that's why Paul Check says, when you have a big enough dream, you don't need a crisis. If your dream is not big enough, you're going to be addicted to your crisis because it's something for you to engage in that you can invest energy in, but it's really a diversion away from where you're not living fully up to your potential. So there's so many reasons why we actually get our needs met by staying ill or by staying injured or by staying sick. And it's the fears, the unresolved wounds, and the limiting belief systems of where we're not living fully. So those are some huge roadblocks when it comes to healing. And a lot of times you actually have to go into some of that work before the foundational principles, because a lot of people aren't going to eat right until you resolve. So sometimes it can go backwards. Like you have to address the deeper stuff before the basic stuff because they're not going to do the basic stuff until you clear the blockages. So that takes a skilled practitioner to be able to kind of see beneath the surface and see behind the veil of what's really going on. So that's where a lot of my one on one coaching is really important. And one on one coaching with anyone is really important because, you know, there's no one size fits all. As much as I love my program, there's no one size fits all approach to healing. So my program really takes you through the basics and then dives deeper. But yeah, sometimes you have to dive deeper and then return back to the basics.

Yeah, because if, if people could just follow your teachings or if people could just follow the, the guide or the guideposts, there would actually be less suffering, Greg. There'd be way less suffering. But yet there is something about being here on planet Earth. This paradox, this mystery, but also this joy, this beauty that we experience. And that is the wisdom of the pain teacher. I think about so many times on this show we've talked about that, like pain is such an ultimate teacher that it probably is what brings people to you. Would you say that most of the people that become a client of yours, that you heal, that you help to heal, it's because they themselves are experiencing so many lessons from the pain teacher that they can't first understand second process or third integrate. So they have to, they knowingly come to you because their heart and soul is guiding them to you. But yet at the same time, there's this war that most people feel, Greg, There's a war between the mind and the heart, the head and the heart, and this war I see playing out everywhere right now. Everywhere right now. So how do you address, first of all, this war that we're talking about? And how do you see the pain, teacher, now compared to when you started your journey?

So the war between the head and the heart is really an internal battle that we all struggle with. And the head is really a lot of where the ego resides. The heart is really where the soul resides. The head and the ego, its number one focus is self preservation. The heart and the soul. Its number one focus is self realization. Whenever there's pain, the head says, move away from it. Whenever there's pain, the heart says, move towards it. There's a tug of war game. Healing can only happen when the head and the heart are fully aligned. And that's when you make a commitment to your own healing. When the head and the heart are aligned, it creates a clear channel. When the head and the heart are out of alignment, it creates division, it creates separation, it creates fragmentation, and it also creates what's called a story gap. And the head says one thing, the heart says another thing, and all of a sudden, you're investing energy in two different stories. The story you tell yourself and the story you tell the world. And the wider the gap of that story, the more there's room for addiction, illness, fatigue, and disease, because you now have to divert energy into two stories. It's almost like playing two roles in a movie instead of one. It consumes twice the amount of energy.

Sounds exhausting, right?

It's exhausting. So a lot of people's crisis is when they've lived enough of a story gap. And the head and the heart are so fragmented that they say, okay, enough is enough. I need to realign myself or else I'm going to split in half. And then all of a sudden, the healing process is stacking the head and the heart on top of each other. And a lot of that is through the expression of using your voice. And what's between the head and the heart is the throat. So it's really how we express ourselves, how we express our needs, how we express our values, how we set our healthy boundaries, and how we live fully in alignment with our needs, our values, and our boundaries. And a lot of times that's one of the most important things for healing, is because people are sick, because they've given themselves away so much, right? They fragmented, they've divorced, they've wounded Themselves out of the fear of woundedness from others. And a lot of that fragmentation in the head and heart out of alignment is really born out of what we were talking about earlier. So really, that process, number one, using Paul Check system is, what is your dream? What is your purpose? What do you really want to create for yourself? When you have a dream, you have a purpose. You have some sort of objective. You have an inner compass. You really know, okay, this is the direction I want to go in. When you know the direction you want to go in and you know what you want to create for yourself, you no longer have interest in creating what you were creating before, which was your crisis. But really the pain teacher is utilizing that crisis as an opportunity to awaken your consciousness and to grow yourself. The pain is a feedback mechanism. Pain in the body is mirroring back to you your choices, behaviors, and belief systems that are no longer serving you. The heart says, listen to this. There's opportunity for growth here. The head says, divorce yourself from this. It's painful. It's uncomfortable. The first step is the surrender. I surrender to what I'm experiencing in this moment, and I'm willing to open myself to the guidance and the wisdom that the pain is delivering as a messenger. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, this is what I'm being called to do. Oh, I'm being called to leave this relationship. Or, oh, I'm being called to join a gym and start exercising. Or, oh, I'm being called to explore some of these old childhood wounds that I had been avoiding for so long. And all of a sudden the heart says, yes, move towards that. And the head still has its little, are you sure you want to do this? There's always the back door. But that's where having a coach and having a support system is so important, because, number one, they keep you accountable. And the accountability to do the work is really important, especially when there's a strong saboteur archetype and a strong victim archetype. Then there's the engagement in the process, and there's the stepping into the discomfort and stepping outside of your comfort zone. And that's really what the heart and the soul really came here to do. That's why a lot of the highly evolved souls come here with really challenging lives, is because it's almost like, okay, I've done a lot of healing work, but I'm ready for the next grade. It's almost like I'm ready for the ninth grade curriculum, where the easy life is kind of like middle School. But it's like, okay, if I really want to grow, I need a challenging curriculum for me to really, you know, dig a little bit deeper.

What do you have to stop you. Because you just dropped so many good things. Probably somebody's hearing this for the second time because they just reminded it and they're watching it again. What do you think that God really wants? Because obviously we're a unique point of consciousness expressing God through us. We're just basically God godding. Not to reductionize anything, but we're here, Greg, and we're all going through our unique challenges. You had your unique challenges. What is the difference? What is the recipe of people that can see the pain teacher giving them a lesson? Because it's God wanting to experience God in that way versus victimization. What is the creation of that paradox?

Well, playing the victim is also denying the divine creation. Right? Playing the victim is like, this shouldn't have happened to me.

Yeah. The pain can be so overwhelming to some people that they might actually just bathe in victimhood for a moment. And that's okay, too.

That's okay, too. It's important to remember there's a light and a shadow side to every archetype. So there is a light side to the victim, and the light side to the victim is acknowledging when you are a victim. Like if you're in an abusive relationship, if you're being beaten by your husband or, you know, you're really being physically or emotionally abused. To deny that you're a victim and stay in their relationship is a silly thing to do. So the light side of the victim is to empower yourself to make a change when you are being a victim. It's the shadow side of kind of like the blame game, the Poor Me, where we get our needs met by playing the victim. When we're really not being victimized, we're victimizing ourselves and looking for someone else to rescue us. That's the shadow side of the victim. So remember, there's a light and a shadow side to every archetype. But when it comes to the pain teacher and a lot of the curriculum that each one of our souls signed up for, that's really for the growth of consciousness, and that's really not necessarily for the individual, but for the collective. I think a lot of the souls come here to clear things, to clear patterns, to clear and heal certain archetypes out of the collective. So that's a really important thing to remember. And Matt Kahn talks a lot about this. Matt Kahn is one of my favorite teachers and he says that, you know, whatever you're experiencing in your life, whatever you're being called to heal is not necessarily healing it on just a personal level. You're healing the pattern on a collective level. And I think when it comes to, you know, what you said, what does God want? I can't. I mean, I can pretend to have the answer, but if I were to suspect, I would say that God has come to experience all of it. God's here to experience all of it. If God's source, it means God's pure potential. And pure potential is really here to experience all of its potential. And we are here to have relationship for God to have relationship. Remember, if all is one and it's just, you know, if it's just unity and oneness, then there's no relationship. So we need our individuality, we need our separateness in order for God to experience itself. Because if it's just oneness, there's no subject object, right? So we're all here to have our individual journeys so God can have an experience of itself through us, through the illusion of separation. But in reality, we're here serving on a collective level. In reality, the highest truth is there is no separation. There is no separation between Josh and myself. Josh is an extension of me, and I'm an extension of Josh. If you go deep enough and like I said earlier, return to the eye of the storm. The witness, the observer. The witness. The observer in me is the same witness and observer in you. So when we really surrender and return back to the source, we realize that everything else was real but an illusion at the same time. So that's where for me, a lot of the meditation practices, even the plant medicine and a lot of those deep spiritual practices are so important because it really connects you to the divine aspects of yourself that really came here for a purpose. And part of the healing process and the pain teacher and the wounds and that whole healing journey was really the curriculum that we signed up for. And we signed up for it. It's almost like we were soul sitting in heaven watching earth and seeing all the patterns and everything. And you're like, that doesn't seem right. I think we need a little help over there. So we kind of slide down, jump.

So we volunteer ourselves for the pain.

Teachers lessons to sign up for a lifetime. And we choose our parents to facilitate that journey, to build that curriculum for us. And as we do the work and integrate the lessons and go through the healing process utilizing the pain as guidance and wisdom, then we start really healing the collective and that's the journey to wholeness.

This is what I dig about you and your work, man. You understand the fundamentals from an academic, intellectual perspective, which those things are real and those things need to be taken stock of. And you have this ability. I mean, it's no surprise that 4D healing is what you do and who you are, because we're so much more than this 3D. We're so much more. Yet it's so easy to fall into the trap, the great trap, that the mind is actually all there is because we get stuck in the mind so much. And most people. Greg, if you had to guess, let's say you had to pontificate and I pushed you against the wall and I was like, greg, if you had to put a number on it, how many people do you think have mental health issues? Forget about the data, forget about the numbers that are being reported by the government. If you had to guess the percentage of people that have moderate, let's just say moderate mental health issues, what percentage would you feel is true? Especially in America?

In America, I think it's different in America versus elsewhere. Probably I'm going to say 85 to 90%.

I was feeling 80.

Yeah, yeah. I would say somewhere between 80 and 90%. And anything from, you know, stress, anxiety, you know, depression. I think we all go through these things. So to say, you know, mental health issues. To me, it's almost like mental health opportunities. Right. A lot of people, you know, have anxiety because there's something for me to learn here. A lot of people have depression. There's something for me to learn here. So a lot of times people have, you know, mental health challenges and they come to me and say, how do I get rid of it? And I'm like, well, the reason you haven't resolved it is because you're too busy trying to get rid of it.

Yes.

Right, yeah. So there's a paradox, you know, the trying to get rid of it is pushing something away that's trying to come towards you. So you're in this kind of push, pull game and you stay so entangled in it that it never gets healed. So the process is the integration of, okay, you know, I welcome you into my being and I'm here and I'm receptive to anything that you're here to teach me.

Greg, you and I have chatted about both offline, and I think we might have even touched on it a tiny bit in episode 356. But this seems like the perfect time to bring it up. For 25 years. I dealt with, like, a severe pornography addiction. And I had to go through so many rungs of the ladder of fighting and trying to, quote, get the pornography out of my life. Get it out of my psyche, get it out, get it out. And it was only until I actually learned through Paul's help, also through many other teachers help. It was an amalgam of lessons that if I could actually physically and emotionally turn to it and do the work, which is what you help people with, which is what healing the mind is all about. Do the work to actually love it. Like, no bullshit, no, like spiritual woo woo. Like, truly love my fear. Truly love the porn. All of us to love our addiction is actually the key that opens the door of freedom. That is what opens the door of freedom.

Yeah. And it's loving the part of you that feels like it needs the addiction. Right. Any part of us that needs an addiction is a part of us that doesn't feel safe. And the only reason it doesn't feel safe is because we've withheld love from it. We've withheld love from the parts of ourselves that feel unlovable. Because it felt as though at some point in its life, the way I was, was not worthy of love and was not good enough. So that part of us starts developing this belief system of, I'm not worthy of love. I'm not good enough. So, like, we were talking about the divorce earlier. We divorce ourselves from that part of ourselves. And the addiction is a way that we redirect our attention away from that part of ourselves by overstimulating ourselves, by numbing ourselves, whatever it might be. There's so many addictions and vices we can use. And most people have addictions without realizing it.

So how would you know if you have one? How would you truly know if you have, quote, an addiction of any kind? Because some people can go 10 years and be like, I'm not an alcoholic. You know, like. And I'm not laughing at that. It's just like, oh, my God, we all know that this person's an alcoholic.

Right.

Like, I knew there was some part of me, Greg, that knew I had an issue about 10 years in, I was like, I think I should take a look at this porn thing. Like, I wonder what's going on there.

Well, a couple things that I've learned from Paul, actually, because Paul teaches a lot in his courses on addiction. Is an addiction is any repeated behavior that's not producing the outcome that you want. So if you keep repeatedly doing. If you keep repetitively doing something and it's not really creating more wholeness or more love or more connection if it's actually creating more disconnection and it's not creating the results that you want. Well, that's an addiction. For example, I used to have an addiction to exercise. I would over exercise and then feel really depleted afterwards. But I would continuously go back and back and back and back and back. Why? Because a part of my identity was so woven into my physical body, and I needed to use muscle mass as a form of armoring from the parts of myself that really feel unworthy, shameful, this, that unlovable, not seen, not heard. So I used the addiction even though it wasn't creating the outcome that I want, because I was getting depleted, I was getting sick, I was getting tired. But a part of me was getting my needs met at the time because I wasn't yet ready to do some of that integration work. Also, one thing that our mutual friend Paul Check says is if you want to know what your God is, ask what you can't live without for a good three or four days. And a lot of people are like, oh, I can't live without my cell phone, or oh, I can't live without my pot or my cigarettes, or I can't live without, you know, Instagram, or I can't live without even this other person. We can be addicted to a relationship. Well, now, you know, you have an addiction. Any sort of unhealthy attachment, any sort of codependency, any sort of relationship in which there's not healthy boundaries, we can technically call an addiction because we have a relationship with something that there's entanglement, there's attachment, there's codependency, and we can't set a boundary with it. Like, for example, some people say, I can't even have cookies in the house because if it's in the house, I'm going to eat it. I can't set a boundary with this thing. I'm in a relationship, so I have to be away from it at all costs. So a lot of us have very unhealthy attachments and addictions without even realizing it.

Do you feel like people can get addicted because they really start to dishonor the seasons of their life and the seasons of the world? In other words, you know, we have summer, spring, winter, fall for a reason. There are certain fruits that are grown and certain vegetables that are grown. And we were really wired for that. You know, we were wired for this seasonal rhythmic pattern that both emotionally and also nutritionally that we're made for. I mean, that's the way that nature intended us to be. And so I wonder, Greg. And I've never actually had this thought I was just a segue between.

Oh, it's brilliant.

It's a segue between what's the true cause of addiction? And you and I have chatted about this before, and I'm going to say it again. The opposite of addiction is connection. It's either connection to self or connection to others. And this is from Gabbard Disconnection. It's from Gabor Matei's work. So I'm thinking, like, okay, so if I'm disconnected from the seasons of the earth, and if I'm disconnected from the seasons of my life, like, maybe there's a building phase for one year and then there needs to be a relaxing phase, or maybe there's a sprint in technology and you gotta build an app. And then there's like a relaxed, you know, like in the way that you nurture your clients, right? You give them a bold lesson, and then they get to integrate. You wouldn't just want to train them for a month straight, going super deep into the root of their trauma without giving them space to breathe and integrate. Yet we live in this society, crazy that we think more is better all the fucking time. And it's just not the truth. So juxtapose this for us with your work, with what you do in the world, and how you help people heal the mind. How do we ignore the rhythms? And what are the rhythms?

So this is actually week three of my program, which is integration, which we integrate all of the seasons and the elements and the laws of nature, and we apply it to how living out of harmony with the seasons and the elements and the laws of nature is actually what's creating a lot of our illness and disease. And what people sometimes fail to understand is a lot of this relates to our relationship with time. The human mind has created this construct called linear time of past, present, future, which is really an illusion of something we've created in reality, time is cyclical time in nature. There's no such thing as linear time in nature. Days, years, months, that's all. That's all cyclical. There's no such thing as linear time other than what we've created in order to navigate life and society and relationships, which there's value to it. But when we get trapped in it and we don't honor the cycles and the rhythms, that's where we get out of balance. For example, we have the seasonal rhythms of Spring, summer, fall, winter. What people don't realize is those seasons exist right inside of you. And they even exist on a 24 hour cycle. Spring, you wake up. You wake up from the winter of hibernation, your deep sleep. Spring is a time of awakening, breath of fresh air. You do your spring cleaning, your spring cleansing, your preparation for the day, then you go into summer. Summer is a time of action, getting the job done, going to work, going to school, going to the gym, kicking ass, living out your purpose. And then fall is evening, where you retire home, you reground yourself, you reconnect with family, you have a nice evening meal, you cool yourself off and you wind down for winter, which is nighttime, where you rest, you sleep, you restore yourself, and then the cycle repeats. And spring also relates to the air elements, summer relates to the fire elements, earth relates, fall relates to the earth elements, and winter relates to the water elements because the water and the moon, the moon controls the flow of water and water is a cooling element, which is what we need at nighttime for our restorative capacity. Most people these days are addicted to summer. Most people these days ignore fall and ignore spring. So what happens is people wake up, they skip spring, they don't have a morning routine, they don't have any ritual, they don't have any preparation for the day. They jump right into summer, they go straight to work. All of a sudden they're very reactive, they're stressed, they're overwhelmed, they're getting pulled here, they're getting pulled there and they're not grounded in themselves. Then they work late into the night and try and go right from summer into winter. And all of a sudden they're still overheated, they're still wound up, they're still overly stimulated and like, why can't I sleep, why can't I get to bed? I have insomnia. Well, you skipped fall, which was your wind down phase, to cool yourself off, reground yourself for winter. And you also skip the awakening of spring to prepare for the day. And that's why you were overly stressed and got nothing productive done during the day. So a lot of times when people are very inflamed in their body, it's because they've been trapped in summer for too long and they skipped three, four, five, six winters. And remember, summer is the fire element. Fire is heat, it's redness, it's swelling, it's inflammation. So a lot of people get addicted to Advil and Aleve and Tylenol and all these anti inflammatories. Why they're trying to put out the fire. A lot of people are addicted to sleep medications. They can't get to bed without taking some pharmaceutical to get themselves to go to sleep. Why? Because they skip spring. They're overheated, they're wound up, they're overstimulated, and they can't get to sleep. The dishonoring of these rhythms and these cycles creates a lot of addiction. People who are addicted to summer are going to use coffee and sugar to try and keep themselves going. People who are addicted to summer and are overstimulated are also going to get addicted to pot and alcohol. To try and unwind themselves to get to bed. So the lack of balance and the lack of honoring of the laws of nature and the seasons and the rhythms are so important. And bringing them back into balance is absolutely critical for our own healing. And a lot of people realize, for example, they use food addiction to balance a lot of these seasons and these elements. For example, if someone's in summer too long and they're all fire. Fire is cortisol. What people don't realize is when they come home and they're like, oh, I want carbs, I want sugar, I want this. Potato chips this or that. You're craving insulin. Insulin lowers cortisol. So you're actually using carbohydrates to get a spike of insulin. To put out the inner fire of cortisol. And you're balancing yourself out unconsciously through the use of an addiction. A lot of people, if you take the air element and the earth elements. The air element relates to the mind. The earth element relates to the body. The mind is thinking, the body is feeling. Someone who has a lot of anxiety. They're kind of like a kite with no tail. And the air element is blowing them all over the place. They actually use food as a source of the earth element to reground themselves. So people are actually playing with these laws of nature unconsciously. And a lot of the addictions are a way that people desperately try and rebalance themselves without even realizing it.

You dropped so much there. That was brilliant. And there was one thing that you were speaking about. I actually wrote it down. I wrote the words on my paper here, Time trap. Because if the universe is something that we will never fully understand with our intellect. And there is no such thing as time. And if you look at nature, we've really only been recording history for 2000 years or so. And even that kind of recorded history, we don't exactly know if in the beginning the recordings were even true. So the only thing that's really true is what we can see and what we can feel and what we can experience with our eyes open or with our eyes closed. So I think about the beautiful way that you, that you described that. It was so good, Greg. It was so good. The way that you described the honoring and the dishonoring of the seasons. Is there something so alluring about staying in the summer? And I think that's what I'm feeling not only for our society, but also for myself. I think a lot of people have had to pivot quickly here with what's gone down in the past year and a half with the lockdowns. And I think that we'll experience more and more pivoting too. What is so alluring about the summer? Why do people get stuck in that more than any other season?

It's where we get recognized. Winter is when we sleep. No one gave you an award as a child for how well you slept, right? So summer is when we're getting the job done, when we're going to work, we're going to school, we're making money, we're doing this, we're doing that. That's what our ego gets recognition for. That's where we get a sense of validation. And we feel seen, we feel heard, we feel approved of. So if you think about spring, summer, fall, winter, spring, which is the minds, summer is the ego, fall is the body, and winter is the soul. There's the four elements of ourselves. Mind, thinking, ego, sensation. We like to stimulate our senses. We get addicted to that, too. Fall, which is the body, which is feeling, and then winter, which is the soul, which is intuition. Our ego gets very addicted to its sense of identity. We get very attached to how we feel. We're perceived by others. And we don't feel recognized, we don't feel validated, we don't feel seen, we don't feel approved of when we're resting. We feel validated, seen, heard, and approved of when we're achieving. So that's where the addiction to summer comes into play. And for me, a lot of that comes back to self love and where we outsource it. And the addiction to summer is I need the external world to validate me. I need the external world to approve of me because I haven't learned how to validate or approve of myself yet. So I'm still outsourcing it to the world outside of me. And the more I do, the more I receive.

I love that phrase, outsourcing self love. Because our entire society, Greg has so many pills and potions and things you can buy that will allow you to outsource your self love. And I know that all roads for all of us, they eventually do, they go back to self love at some point. It's just inevitable. Rumi has talked about this in depth. I think he has a poem that even says, like, my soul, it's been so long. It's been so long since I've seen you and thank you and welcome back home. And I think we're all walking that journey. Because you had a pain teacher that came really early. Some would say late, but I would say pretty early. It was in your twenties, right, when you went through the ocd.

Late teens, early twenties.

Late teens, early twenties. So you chose to listen to the pain teacher early. Why do people ignore the pain teacher for so long?

A lot of people aren't yet ready to do the work. A lot of people aren't yet ready to heal. And there was. There was a time, there were years where I wasn't ready either. And I utilized addictions as a way of trying to bypass doing that work. Some people don't. Don't have the right guidance. Some people don't have someone like myself or yourself or a Paul Check to kind of show them the way. I mean, I did the work to really seek that out for myself. But also, sometimes you have to get uncomfortable enough where there's no other option.

That's it.

A lot of people, it's like, I'm struggling, I'm in pain, but it's not that bad. Like, I feel more comfortable in this discomfort than the discomfort of doing the work.

Yeah.

So, yes, I think for me, I got to the point where it's like, I can't keep going like this. You know, if this is the way it's going to be for the rest of my life, I don't think I want to take that journey. So for me, it was, I have to do the work. I have to go inward. I need to surrender fully. And for me, I would just sit in my room in meditation for hours and hours and hours and just sit with all of the pain and the shadow and the fear that was arising up in me. And that's where I learned how to sit in the eye of the storm. And that's where I had some of my most profound spiritual experiences were in the deepest pain was because when you get to that point of like, I don't know what to do. I have to make a change. All you can do in that moment is surrender. And as soon as you fully surrender, I mean, fully surrender, all of a sudden you're like, wow, there's a witness in here. There's a soul, there's an observer in here that's aware of all of these parts of myself that I've so identified with. But who is this one that's aware of all these parts? And then I'm like, that was, you know, my first spiritual awakening of, like, wow. Who I thought I was is not actually who I am. And who I really am is the one that's aware of all these things. I'm aware of the storm. I'm not the storm. I'm the one that's witnessing it. And that really comes through the process of really fully surrendering and fully surrendering. Sometimes you have to get to the point where there's no other option.

I'm just letting that land for all of us. Because this has been absolutely incredible, the areas that we've explored here. And this is like the scratch of the top of the very top of the iceberg. Because if people were to listen to this and watch this podcast three times, every single time you watch this or listen to this, I guarantee you'll get something new. So if you're enjoying this right now, if you're feeling some of these lessons on your first or second or third time listening, do Greg and I a massive favor for the collective. And that is share this podcast. Share this podcast with somebody that you love, you truly love, that maybe is struggling with a mind that won't quit. Literally, a mind that's just addicted to summer. A mind that is resisting healing because it is so comfortable in the dis. Ease. Like, feel that in your heart right now. I mean, I can feel it in my heart just talking to you about it. Craig, someone out there needs this. So please, you guys. My friend, I'm going to talk to you right now. I'm looking right at you. Share this podcast with someone that you care about. I say that all the time in our intros, but this one really hits home for me. As you know, Greg, my mom was manic bipolar, struggled with that. My dad had his own cognitive dissonance issues. I've struggled with mental health. I've overcome a lot of things in my life. You guys, the healing is not just possible, it's inevitable. But you have to be able to lean into the wisdom of this pain teacher. So, dude, the ground we covered. Greg, the ground we covered was phenomenal. Do you feel like we missed anything in regards to healing the mind based on where someone actually is. What did we not cover? What is something that you've been wanting to express lately?

Before I get to that, I'm just going to piggyback off of what you just shared in terms of sharing this podcast, but also listening to it multiple times, and listening to it multiple times is great because, number one, you're going to extract something new each time, but not necessarily because the information you missed anything, but because you're actually a different person each time you listen to it. So the reference point in which you're listening the podcast is from a different angle. So it's not necessarily because the podcast changed, but actually because you changed. And when you change, then what you pick up on changes. That's why they say when you change yourself, you change the world, because when you change yourself, you change the perspective in which you're viewing the world from. So each time you listen to the podcast, you're a different person and the perspective that you're listening to the podcast from is different. So that's why I always listen to things multiple times, is because the reference point is different from where I'm at first time, second time, third time. But in terms of anything that we missed, a couple things that I had written down as notes today for myself that I felt was an important message is, number one, connecting to your truth, really connecting to what feels true for you and living in full alignment with that. One thing we're seeing with this pandemic is we're outsourcing our truth to authority. We're outsourcing our truth to social media, to the news, to doctors and all these authorities that may or may not have what's in the best interest of the individual, but really reconnecting with your inner compass. And whenever you receive information, even things that I say, I don't want you to take what I say and just take it as truth. I want you to integrate and apply it and say, does this feel true for me? Because I might be very different than yourself and anyone else. So what's true for me might not feel what's true for someone else. And with this pandemic, whether it's, you know, the mask wearing or the social distancing or the vaccines or this or that, whatever it is, really connect to your own truth and really stay committed to living in full alignment with that and not outsourcing it anymore to any sort of authority, because that keeps you in the child archetype. That's really important. The next thing is really just understanding that this healing the mind and the Journey to Wholeness, which is really what our program is all about. A lot of it is really reintegrating parts of our inner child and understanding that a lot of the woundedness, a lot of the activity in the mind and the inner storm that you were talking about, and a lot of that inner chaos, a lot of that is really born out of a wounded inner child that we've divorced ourselves from. And a lot of times the inability to connect to our truth, the inability to connect to our soul, and the inability to connect to our intuition is really because we haven't reintegrated the inner child. So when you haven't reintegrated the inner child, the wounded child is almost like a gatekeeper that doesn't allow you access to, to the deeper parts of yourself. Because if you go deeper than the wounded child, the wounded child is like, you forgot about me. So a lot of the woundedness, a lot of the pain teacher, a lot of the mental health challenges, a lot of what we're talking about really relates to the reintegration of the inner child. And that's something you and I have talked a lot about and you've shared with me your experiences with a lot of that. But really that's so important, is to really start giving yourself and giving the child inside of you whatever it really needed when it was younger but never received. So it might be the feeling of being heard, being seen, being loved, being cared for, being nurtured. Whatever you didn't receive when you were younger, it's your job to now offer that to yourself. And a lot of the physical and mental chaos is really trying to get us back to that relationship and rekindle that connection.

So much wisdom. Greg and I just want to acknowledge you for the work that you've done and the man that you've grown into. Just seeing you from last year, I'm just like, I'm absolutely blown away. I'm really honored, actually. I'm just honored. I'm honored to share your message.

Thank you.

There's so many people that need this. And I say that because there are certain things that we must get nourished with, otherwise we perish. And so whether you want to label it as need or whether you want it, whether you want to label it as something that will nourish someone, I believe this program will help people. So everyone go to wellnessforce.com htm that's healing the mind. Greg, you're really generous too. Thank you for the discount you gave everyone. 20% off the program, which is already Very reasonably priced. So you guys, I. I put my heart and soul into Greg's work. And in full transparency, I helped Greg build this program because I believe in Greg so much, you know, and I believe in your message and your mission for the world. So wellnessforce.comhtm and you just enter the code wellnessforce. You get 20% off, which is amazing. So, Greg, you know, a year ago, in the middle of the craziness, I asked you about this center point that we all have. And it's the center point between physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and that is wellness. You know, to live our life well is, is to be full and to be nourished in all these areas. You guide people in this with Healing the Mind, your three week program, and you guide your one on one clients in this. But what about you? You know, you've had some unique challenges this year, both personally and professionally, just like we all have, because challenges are the opportunities to grow. But how do you see wellness now compared to a year ago? You know, over a year has passed as your definition has your understanding, or just simply what is your understanding of what wellness actually is? How do you define that?

So I used to think wellness was eating the perfect diet, having the perfect sleep, having the perfect exercise, program, having no stress. But this year has turned all of that upside down. And from my roller coaster ride of a year with its ups and downs and, you know, pains and struggles and opportunities within all of it, one thing I've realized is spirit works in funny ways.

Yeah.

And one thing that I would say in terms of wellness, to me, wellness is freedom. To me, someone who is well, is someone who feels free in their body, in their mind and their emotions, free to express their emotions, free to express their body, free to express their thoughts and their ideas and their truths. So one element of wellness for me is freedom. And to me, health is freedom. The reason we want to be healthy is we want the freedom to be able to do the things we love to do. Whether it's play with your kids or your grandkids, or go travel or do some sort of retreat or exercise or whatever it might be, we want to be healthy, we want to be well. So we have the freedom to do the things we love to do. But if you kind of get behind that and say, okay, well, how do we get there? To me, what I've realized over the last year, it's not the perfect diet, it's not the perfect sleep, it's not the perfect exercise, it's not having no stress, it's really having an intimate connection to what you need on a moment to moment basis and really staying connected to what is it that I need for myself? It might be water, it might be certain food. It might be to take some space from a certain relationship because maybe you feel too entangled in it. It might be I need to just feel whatever's rising up in me. But really on a moment to moment, present moment basis, really being connected to that which you need. And to me, the highest form of spirituality is really offering yourself what you need on a moment to moment basis. To me, we get unwell and have dis ease and we're out of balance when we stop honoring our needs. The need for sleep, the need for food, the need for healthy relationships, the need for sunshine, the need for grounding, the need for feeling your emotions, the need for taking some space and having some quiet time for yourself. The need to set healthy boundaries and, you know, really honor what's coming up for you. The need to express yourself. We have our needs and we get unwell when we start denying them. So that to me, as wellness is a moment to moment intimate connection with that which you need.

It's beautiful. I think about something I've quoted quite a bit and it's Tony Robbins. Somebody asked him that, what do you think of freedom? What's your definition of freedom? And he was like, it's my ability to say no to anything that I choose. So wonderful. I mean, can't be more simplistic. And I think we try to put language around these things, but you've really hit the nail on the head in so many ways. Greg, thank you for being on the show. Everyone go to wellnessforce.com htm and use the code wellnessforce because if you're feeling this in your heart, if you're feeling it somewhere in your body, maybe if you're just curious about this, there's absolutely nothing to lose besides the Groundhog day that keeps repeating because of whatever is there. So everyone have a beautiful day. Greg, thank you for being on the show. I have so much love and respect for you and your work. It's been a joy to lock arms with you and just see everything that's bear fruit. So until I see you again, Greg, which will be soon, until Greg sees you again, which will be soon, we'll have him back on the show. Greg and I are both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you, brother Sam.