Hustle Culture Paradox: The Unintended Consequences of Fast-Paced Life

I've, like, told myself that this is. I need to do this. I have to work hard. I have to travel these nine months.

And then I'll rest.

And then I'll rest.

Yeah.

Or the rest will be forced upon me. Oftentimes, especially men, we don't stop until we are forced to stop. My masculine aspects to go, go, go, work harder. Whether that was a story that I learned from someone or the hustle and the grind, I do think there's a time and a place for it. But we need to develop those pause points and those moments in our day to day to actually reflect, to realize that life is a process. Wisdom for me is that we are constantly evolving, that the only thing truly constant is the fact that we are.

Evolving at some point. This frog medicine, Combo, found you.

It was a warrior's medicine. And I'm in such the perspective now, not just with combo. Like, I want to work with the medicine. I don't want to get my ass handed to me. I want productive, and I want connected. And so I had that experience the next day. I felt like I could run through a brick wall. And what I started noticing is as I was traveling and teaching after that point, I'd be on the road teaching like a maniac. Not sustainable stuff. Trying to hustle, trying to build a brand, trying to teach, get my name out there. I, like, wasn't getting sick.

I am so glad that you have a podcast.

Why is that? Tell me about it.

Well, there's a couple. There's many reasons, but the big two is that I remembered when we first sat down years ago, you have this eloquence, and you have this power of the pause mastered. A lot of people don't understand what the power of the pause is. Power of the pause is where instead of you trying to trump the other person or wait till they're done so you can say exactly what you want to say. You actually listen. So you're a powerful listener, man. Welcome to wellness and wisdom. Welcome to the studio.

So glad you're here, dude. Thank you so much, man. And thank you for. For showing. Showing me the possibility of what a podcast can be. You know, we had just recorded for. For my podcast, the Path, which was incredible.

I cried, y'.

All.

I cried. I cried. It's. It's actually kind of rare. That's. And the 20% of podcasts that, like, really get there. So kudos to you.

Well, it's. And we were sharing this off air, like, one of the greatest reasons, one of the greatest reasons why I'M doing this is from the place of wanting to learn alongside listeners and alongside the people that I'm interviewing, and vice versa.

Yeah.

And then our show, in my experience, really demonstrated that. And so it's really cool to see your evolution and to see where we're at right now, which is so cool and so dope. And the story of this table that we're on. So, dude, it. And I was sharing this with you as well. It's an absolute gift and a pleasure and an honor to be here. I mean that.

So I'm excited to understand Mike 3.0. Now, before we do, I haven't actually ever done this, but I want to share with my audience, you know, these photographs. Like, obviously on this side, we have Larry King, we have mlk, we have this beautiful artwork from Burning Man. And I don't know if you have been to Burning man yourself.

No.

But a lot of what I want to ask you about today is, as in your journey to fatherhood, what is the things inside of you? You can see these children, if you're watching with us on YouTube, that are just wanting love, just wanting connection. And as adults, we build up all these stories that basically turn our backs to one another. And then obviously, Betty White and then Frank Sinatra, like, people that really did things from their heart, from their genius. And I see that in you. Like, in you, I see someone who's come from a huge athletic background, Kettlebells, Bulgarian bag like you are, I would say, you know, you just interviewed with Primal Soldier out here in Austin. You are at the top of the food chain when it comes to somebody that can be trusted about movement. And I think that the way we nourish ourselves in the Pentagon that I teach and that I've been understanding at the base of it all is physical. You know, there's this physical. There's mental, emotional, spiritual, and financial. It forms this perfect pentagon. And so I'm curious for you, man, since we interviewed last on the baseline of that physical, you know, one thing I've noticed that you've been some rebranding on is intentional fitness. And I love that. I think about fitness as a really misunderstood phrase in the world. So in this construct of unpacking all the layers of that pentagon, let's start with the physical. What is intentional fitness? What actually is that?

Well, I kind of want to take a back step, because one of the things that's come up while I've been here, like, I've been going through, I was having this really heartfelt conversation last night with Lauren, it brought me to tears and like one of the things. And this will, this will definitely connect to the fitness in your question. But so much of my life I've been a mover and I've been a teacher and I love that. And that's an identity that I feel safe in and that's like part of me where I shine. And that being said, a motivation in the last few years has really been to do more heart centered work. So men's work and heart growth, spiritual growth, whatever you want to call it. That being said, this trip has been really unique for me because on this trip, usually when I travel in the past, it's always been in the past. It's always been to teach movement. On this trip, I've taught a little movement, primarily stepping into this role as a podcaster. But for the last five years, I've been dealing with some knee pain in my right knee and not too many people know about it. The people have helped me and supported me back at home. Shout out to Johnny Suarez, Justin Bryan have been great helping me. And that being said, being out here, I've been in some pain, so I haven't been able to. Whether you can see it on camera or not. I was talking to Lauren last night. She's like, how's your knee? I was like, well, the shooting went good and the teaching went good, but you know, they didn't really like, thank God, nobody really probably figured that I was in knee pain. And she's like, I don't give a fuck. I don't care how the shooting went, dude, she's Mike. She's like, how's your knee? And I'm like, well, it hurts, it's swollen. And like, I don't want to say that I've been having this identity crisis because it's not that, but I'm like, it's really been a really reflecting point for me. It's like, who am I if I can't move? And I know it's cliche to say, but it brought me to tears last night and. And it was like, we're having Luca in three months. And I know it's cliche to say, but it's so true. It's like, I want to be free to play with him. And this is the first time in my life I have not felt free to play, take the work out of it. And so for me, I'm like figuring this is total work in progress, figuring out where I go. But the physical side, I totally agree with you, is the foundation for Everything. And also provides the foundation and a lot of times the platform for which we can build and learn about ourselves and do all these great stuff. But what if that gets taken away and I'm in a place for the first time probably since I started working with Paul and I had an arm injury, but that was a fucking arm injury. And I was trying to win a world championship. And so with that, it was like I was still able to move, but for me, every movement when I walk lights up my knee. Or if I'm doing, like, there's. No matter how mindful I was, no matter my corrective routine before I went to go coach and shoot the other day, and I'm coaching for five hours. Hours tomorrow out of college, no matter how mindful I was and doing my prep stuff. When you're training with bags and the soupless ball and the bands or bells, like, there's no way, like, those tools inherently require massive range of motion and rotation and changing levels. So, dude, I'm like in a very interesting spot and I haven't really talked about this at all to anybody. So I'm excited to share that piece with you.

Are you really excited to share it?

Parts of me are. Parts of me are really scared.

What's the scared part?

It's still that, you know, maybe a part of that story of just like, Yeah, I turned 36 next month. And so in connection to that story, it's like, I've set this goal for myself. I want to be free from pain when I'm 36, you know, and again, this thing is flared up time and time again. But it's interesting that it's coming up and like, literally the dragon's rearing its head big on this trip.

When did you start to use the phrase intention? I'm just curious if you could go on the time machine.

Yeah.

When did you first start to use the phrase intentional fitness?

Two years ago.

Okay. I think it's such an ironic universal experience then for you to have an unintended knee injury, because the last time I met you, you weren't using that phrase. And I loved that phrase. And when I saw your work, I was like, I have to know what that means. Obviously, at first audible, I'm like, okay, intentional fitness. I put an intention behind my fitness. It's way deeper than that for you. So with that backstory, which I think, honestly, we teach what we need to learn, no matter category of the five, it's in. And isn't it ironic that you being a world class fitness instructor and Fitness, really leader, that you yourself would be going through massive knee pain. Unintended massive knee pain. I just think that's a paradox for you. And I'm curious. I. I am really curious.

What.

Obviously you're in the middle of it right now, so it would actually be a disservice to say, oh, I know why this is happening, because you'd bypass the lesson, but what do you think the lesson is in this knee pain for you?

I think it's multifold. Multifold. And like, you had asked me, what is intentional fitness to me? And I'm like, my definition of it through my own life experience is continually evolving. And in our podcast together, we were talking about intention sometimes is the most important part or sometimes the most transformative part of any ceremony. So I think separating fit life is ceremony. So if we can look at our fitness or how we move and how we care for ourselves as a ceremony. I'm in a ceremony right now. Yes, in a ceremony right now. So how I approach, how I care for my body is with intention, with the overall goal of being pain free and being able to play with Luca. All these things that I'm not being, you know, not being limited, if you want to use the negation, but being just basically being free. I want to be able to move forward without bounds. And so what was your question exactly?

Again, what is. What are you learning? What do you think the lesson is? Without going through it yet, it would be silly for you to answer it perfectly. But what do you intend. What do you. What do you intend to learn from this? What do you think you'll learn from this?

It's more than just the knee. You know, I think there is an orthopedic, like, there's obviously a structural issue, and I've got, like, my understanding of what that is, like, what that was due to. But I think the big lesson for me is just the reminder, like, the structural issue or contributing factors. There's only but one factor to it. I'm really curious also now, and this has been in recent years, probably since the last 10 years. I'm really curious, what other aspects of my life am I hiding from? Am I not looking at? What am I carrying? Like, the knee? Like, our knees carry us. Yeah, right. It's not like the wrist or the shoulder. There's maybe other themes there. But, like. And I'm reminded of it every day. And when we're in pain, it's a reminder to me, like, when we're in pain, like, I'm apprehensive To stand up or I'm apprehensive, like, even if I'm not in pain, like, I know certain movements. Like, I'm almost like, looking back, looking back in this kind of more of a fearful perspective. So I think part of the lesson is, like, what other theme is contributing to that? Because I know that I will figure this out, and I am figuring it out, but what I want to do. And this touches on the intentional fitness piece. If fitness is just about fitness, I think it's very one dimensional, okay. But if fitness is truly a means to develop the entire person and grow as a whole person and be better for our family, for ourselves, how we see the world. If I can use my fitness as a means to be a better father for Luca, that's what excites me. So that is the part that excites me. And maybe the fear is the. The part of, like, truly not knowing the mystery of, like, will I actually get out of this? And it's my opportunity to actually trust. But when you're in it, it can be really hard to trust because again, with every movement, there's pain and there's that reminder. So for me, I think it's looking deeper at what else is tied to it emotionally, energetically. It's how can I make this a lesson, hopefully to be a better father and then also learn some cool structural shit as well. And, like, learn how to rehab the knee properly so I can. Because it wasn't due to a direct impact trauma or anything. Like, I didn't fall off something. Really what is due to, in my understanding is, I mean, I've been teaching a lot over the last few years. I was traveling almost nine months, six to nine months a year from Italy to Kuwait to the UK to coming at long flights, teaching nonstop hustle and trying to build a business. And then I'd be coming home to serve combo and literally be seated in an awkward position for three to five hours nonstop.

Yeah.

Constant stress, constant. These awkward positions and never really giving it the chance to actually be rehab.

You've probably heard of the term fermentation for gut health, but what if I.

Told you that the best way to.

Improve this gut brain access through fermentation.

Wasn'T just through sauerkraut. What if I told you that you.

Could get it through fermented beef and turkey sticks? Would you be interested? I know that I was absolutely interested in this concept three years ago when I came across Paleo Valley. Organically farmed, sustainably farmed turkey and beef sticks.

I take these Everywhere.

My son Nova loves them, no joke. His favorite is the teriyaki.

He also loves the regular flavor beef. But daddy, I love, I absolutely love the turkey sticks.

Whether it's turkey, beef, any flavor at all, which they have a ton of mouth watering flavors. Our sponsors, our friends over at Paleo Valley, they want to hook you up.

All you have to do is go to.

Joshtrant.com Paleovalley Use the code Josh. You get 15% off your entire card. So whether you're getting the bone broth, the acv, all the different health products that are mouth watering and good for you at the same time, I would absolutely recommend that you get yourself multiple handfuls of the beef and the turkey sticks to improve the communication of your gut brain axis. Studies show that the fermentation process actually improves those beneficial positive microbes and helps to fight dysbiosis. Joshtran.com PaleoValley Use the code Josh to save 15% off.

This is, this is a perfect description of your unique life experience of what I call the paradox of being a father, being a provider. We touched on a little bit on the path, but I want to flip it. Yep, I want to, I want to get your take on this. As you look at the road ahead with the knee injury, with the healing, and just with you stepping into the magnificent role of providing for another life, can you see that some part of this is already working out for you? And if so, what is that part that's already working out for you? And also what can you tell us about modern hustle culture and modern business hustle that most likely isn't of service to you anymore?

Well, we were chatting about this a little bit about wellness and wisdom, how it, I got it right this time. But what I appreciate about what you shared in that is it, it brings a little bit more of like the balance of the masculine, the feminine. Right. So like my masculine aspects to go, go, go, work hard or whether that was a story that I learned from someone or just how I've learned, what.

If it's just sometimes that life requires that. And that's the paradox that's at the core of my question to you. Sometimes life requires that and keep going.

Yeah, I, I would agree that it does require that. And like, I think it's probably really important to develop an awareness of when it's requiring it or how it's requiring it. Otherwise we can get stuck in it.

Too long, like a season.

Because I, I've like told myself that this is, I need to do this. I need or I have to work hard, I have to travel these nine months or I have.

And then I'll rest.

And then I'll rest.

Yeah.

Or the rest will be forced upon me. And I really do believe this is how so many of us and I've been injured in different sports and so I've had my experience around that. But also working with clients and having just being just a human being and just caring about other people oftentimes, especially men, we don't stop until we are forced to stop. And so right now I'm back in a season again where there's some aspect of the lesson of maybe bringing in more of a feminine approach of. Or there's so many ways to any objective or goal and I think to be so focused and like I'm really good with putting my head down and let's go and thank God for someone like Lauren or people like Lauren.

Reminds you to eat.

Reminds me to eat. Or we were talking, I think on the path about just like one of the hallmarks of a real good friendship is for a friend to be honest with you about potentially what they see. But also that can help illuminate the blind spots in you. So I've got so many blind spots. We all do. And thank God for the people in my life and in our lives that are there to stand up for us. And I'm not saying that we have to take it on as truth and but when it's someone that I know is coming from a heart centered place and what Lauren told me last night, she goes something to the effect of like, baby, like your heart is your most valuable thing. Even if you were paralyzed, Luke would fucking love you and I would love you. And that was so big for me. So the reminder, like we are more than who we think we are, we are more than what we do. So to part of your question about like the go, go, go mentality or the hustle and the grind, I do think there's a time and a place for it. But we have to, we need to develop those pause points and those moments in our day to actually reflect. Is that actually true or is that coming from some wound or some projection or some idea or conditioning of mom, dad, where's that coming from? If it's true? I'm not saying when we launch a product or when, I don't know, we buy a house or something like that, we need to step up and we do need to work more. But if it ends up being a year long season or a five year long season, we need to reevaluate.

Yeah. People get stuck in the seasons because they really get addicted to, in my opinion, the stress response, the roller coaster that happens when you're stuck in a season. In other words, we're always getting something, Mike. I feel like all of us are getting something from our behaviors, me included. Even if it's an unintended result, like, we're still subconsciously getting a win in some way. Otherwise, if we were conscious, we would just change the behavior. Like, if you knew exactly why your knee was in the shape that was in, you would just change it. But the not knowing is the space that you're in, and it's a beautiful space. And it actually. It makes me think of something that you wrote on your brotherhood experience for the Men, the Men of Movement Retreat. And it was around, how do we develop the courage to be a mixture of hard and soft, of yin and yang? And I love that because that is. I just saw the movie 300 this week again. I probably watched it, like, five times. That is the Spartan, the man who's yin and yang, hard and soft. That is the warrior who's hard and soft. Yin and yang. There's an integration. There's a balancing. The Lady Liberty is 50. 50. I mean, she's perfectly balanced. Right. And that is, like, think about this. If a lady is open, then she's balanced. If she's this, she's closed. But when. And it goes for us, too, the feminine side of us, when we're balanced, we're hard and soft. We're yin and yang. How did you see that unfold with the men?

Oh, dude. And to your point there, like, I think what you were saying, that's the. That's the. The mature warrior. Right.

Because the image we're all striving for.

Exactly.

I mean, hopefully we are. Yeah.

And I think a lot of men can resonate with that.

Yep.

But a lot of men don't really have models for that in a healthy way. And also, too, what I've seen in the experience and now the logo for the. For the brand is Men of Movement. That's the. The Retreat brand. But the logo. And this came up, and I've shared this on different podcasts, but I'll share a little deeper on this one. The saying, the tagline, whatever, the heart of it is lead from the middle. And so I had that vision multiple times in medicine ceremonies where I was literally. Dude, it was like I was in a desert tribe, like a Bedouin desert tribe. And it was literally me and hundreds of men with like capes over our head or whatever they would wear and all rising up together. And I think all of us lead in a way that feels potentially natural to us. And we all have strengths and weaknesses, et cetera. But what always felt most natural to me was this nature of like, there's no pedestaling. Yes. Someone may have like something like a process they want to take us through. Maybe they're organized. I'm the main guy on the experience. But it's not about me. It's truly. I'm not just saying that because that sounds fucking cool. It's literally. And that's why I have a big, big thing where all the facilitators, for example, that are going to contribute and we typically have about five, we are all going through the experience with the guys. So if we're in the sweat lodge, we're in there singing, chanting, if someone's leading breath work like myself, the facilitators are all part of that. And what happens is, is I've seen this because I think in men today, even especially what I'm learning in a lot of more of these men's group, there's a big posturing or who's the most alpha and it's like, who's the most spiritual, who's all this? And that's a natural finger that can arise. But when you model it from the inside out, that everybody truly has something to teach and that's one of the most blown away things that I get to experience in this work is. I mean, it just like to hear the different. You never know what someone's going through or what someone has been through. And so to witness some of the teachings and the life lessons and where people are honestly at right now, dude, almost brings me to tears. And so to model that, to have a model from the inside out that we were all in this together and we're truly all here trying to learn and be better. That is where I see is one of the biggest missing elements in any men's work. And that's one of the coolest things. We're all going through this shit together.

I feel you so hard on that. We huge love and respect for Johnny Blackburn, who trained with John Weinland and David data in 2014. And then I brought the evolving men's collective out here. And so there's seven of us in group. We've been in group this year and I lead it, but it's free. The only cost is blood, sweat, tears and authenticity. There's no money exchanged and we do it From a. And I do it from a place of service. And I told the men right the very first time, I said, if you ever even get an essence of me leading from a place that's not purely based in service, you owe it to me to tell me and the men owe it to you to tell you that as well. And anybody who's leading men in anything, the only way those men are going to have that yin yang, hard, soft, like you talk about on the site, is if the leader themselves have embodied that. So how have you embodied that?

I think, and it just comes up as the retreats unfold. But the willingness to model vulnerability. And so if something like, it's not like a planned thing, to be honest, it's just kind of.

You don't plan out your vulnerability before. It's like, I'm going to share this and it's going to be amazing.

Well, I think, you know, we all got stuff like light, like, I mean, all of us are going through different phases of life. So I think it's one being aware that like, one, we're human and we got shit to do. We got shit that we're working on or working through or working with. And then in that same light, if there's an opportunity, and sometimes it's also trusting that it doesn't have to be me sharing that vulnerable thing. I trust that the people I've selected to be there and facilitating, and also the men that hop on the call because I have on a call with each guy. Like, the only prerequisite, I guess you could say, is just the willingness to want to explore and want to be with brothers. So what I've really found is, is like, how does it happen? It kind of just happens. Like, I don't even know how some of this shit happens. All I know is when you create the container and the intention piece is there and you bring the right group of people together, it's like there's things that are happening well before this event even happens. And so. But I do think, to your point, it does incredibly help when someone can model once the. The first tier goes. That is fucking dominoes.

Well, and I love this because in like the very first group we had, I didn't plan it either, but I totally cried. First share of the round. Cried. And. And I knew that when I was crying, I knew it was of service even when it was hard to do. So I guess for me, the way that I've done that is I just am seeking peace in men's work. I'm seeking Peace. And I think most men are, they're just seeking peace. We want peace because power, true power, comes from peace. If you look at Hawkins work, look at anybody's work, I mean, you can look at Hawkins work, but look at any of our ancient masters. The way that they shape all their curriculum is to get us to peace. And then from peace we can have power.

Yeah.

So how can you go practical with us? Yeah, practically daily basis, habits, tactics, routines, way of being. How do you cultivate that inside of yourself so that you can show up for these men, show up for combo, show up for education and be authentically you. Be vulnerably authentically you? How do you do that?

Yeah, that's such a good question. And so there's a few things that come up. And also I will say that like part of me feels like I don't do anything at the retreat, but then also part of me knows that I do a ton of shit at the retreat. With the months of planning and every single activity is super intentionally designed and curated. Everything builds off of each other. And so it's like this very thoughtful progression and getting guys to develop safe. Like we do a workout in the beginning, we sweat together, we bond. It's all team workouts. We use the nature elements and then without going too much into it, but like every single activity builds to create the safety or to create the harmony for things to happen. That being said, in daily life, one of the biggest things and we incorporate this in the retreat is time to be with oneself. So we do silent hikes, journaling, quiet time after breath work, being with yourself for an hour, going off like it's in Mount Shasta. These are all things that even when we were talking about on my show, I think it was for preparing with the vision quest, all those things, those accumulation of quiet points in the day, especially for guys who are doers and trying to achieve. You can use the simple formula. It's like if you're outputting 90% of your day, you better at least have that equal ratio flip flopped in some way, shape or form. So if you're just looking at your week and you're looking at your calendar and literally you're hustling from 7am to 7pm where does the rest time come outside of just the sleep, you know what I'm saying? So sitting in nature, huge. Drumming has been huge. Literally, you don't even know shit about drumming. Get a drum. Or even if you don't even have a drum, literally just slap your chest. When I first was Working with a mentor and a coach of mine, Yaakov Darling Khan. He was the first guest on my podcast. He goes, if you don't have a. If you don't have a drum, don't worry about it. Just follow along and beat your chest. And all you got to do is literally just do the heartbeat. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Do that for at least seven minutes and watch how it down regulates your nervous system. So anything practically from drumming to breath work, to quiet time to walking, to journaling, if you want to do, to just creating the space and the openness for the opportunity to create a downregulated state, which is synonymous with a receptive state. Anything that you can do, practically speaking, and taking an honest inventory of how much and where your energy is already going so you can help balance that. Anything you do will be helpful.

There's so much there, but at the crux of it, there's really just a decision to love yourself enough to do it. In other words, you still have to. Mike, you could tell all of us right now the top 10 most scientifically proven ways to cultivate courage and, and vulnerability in the masculine. You could even, I'm sure, teach a workshop. We could co. Lead a workshop and like how to lead a men's group. But. But people have to really, they have to gather, they have to apply, and then they embody. So what has been the hardest thing for you to apply in what you've.

Gathered, and it's interesting because I still struggle with this dude, is I've learned so much consistency from weightlifting and teaching, and it's one of my, probably my biggest strengths and probably someone outside looking in would be like, view on that. Like, wow, he's super disciplined, super consistent. And I am. That being said, there's certain aspects of my life that I'm not very consistent with.

Like what?

Caring for the knee. You know, like, that's one big thing. Like, I put that aside because I've been so much about service or my story around service. It's all like, I'm doing this thing for others, and there's truth in that. But if I'm doing all this stuff for everybody else at the expense of certain things that are costing me pain or costing my own sense of freedom, at a certain point, I'm either going to be resenting them or I'm going to start resenting myself. And so there's certain aspects, caring for my body and like, I do move a lot, I do teach, but it's not. It's a. It's a different energy. Like, I'm doing it to instruct and to lead and or to shoot content. It's a different thing than just like I'm training to keep my body in balance. So I'm still figuring that out. That consistency piece around that we talked around about eating, like, I do really well fasting. Like, I can keep a great conversation. My energy, I'm like, I love, I enjoy the feeling of it. But thank God, God bless Lauren, like, who reminds me to eat and cooks for me. I mean, she's a fantastic cook.

Yeah.

So the consistency around some of that stuff. So right now, at this phase of my life, there's aspects of self care and self maintenance that I would like to and struggle doing a better job with.

What's one thing about your journey of understanding you that is the most scary to share?

I don't know if this is the biggest thing, but this is a big thing with being a father. Not knowing if I can provide the life that I feel my family deserves, that I want to give while being as present of a dad as I want to be. The ability to balance both those and having our baby boy, it's bringing and has brought so many new things in my awareness and things that I never, never would have thought, ever would ever like, enter my mind. And I've had so many opportunities in meditation, in dreams, on medicine, to connect with him. And so I feel so close with him. And the big fear is, am I going to be able to support in the way that I want to while being there for him? That's what I'm really scared of.

What way do you want to.

I want to be there as present as I can be. I want to be there like, which is one reason why I'm doing. I don't even know how many podcasts on this trip. It's so that I can get ahead, so that when he comes, I can be there. But the, the what I've learned, and it was a pretty harsh teaching to me recently, is I'm pushing so hard right now and I. And I. I'm want to celebrate myself for the intentionality to be there for the first two, three months when he's born. Yeah, but I'm pushing so hard that what I'm finding is it's actually taking me away from right now and being there for Lauren. And so I'm trying to figure out that balance, to be fully honest of like understanding why I'm working as hard as I'm working to create the space. But is the pace I know, this is unsustainable and, and I'm not trying to sustain it for long term, but if I'm missing, I'm missing more than I want to miss right now. And I miss her dearly, like, being away from her. So that's absolutely something that I'm struggling with.

Man, I appreciate that. I went through that so much when Carrie was pregnant with Nova. And I think it's a fundamental thing with all men that want to show up in the way you're describing. And I'm really. I could imagine that conversations with you and Lauren are different than with any other woman you've ever been with. Oh, yes, Right.

Yeah.

How would you describe the level of connection and the level of understanding and empathy and mirroring that exists with her compared to other women you've been with?

I mean, well, you just like listed off every. Every single aspect in those. But, like, imagine like, being in it. Right? Like, so my experience of Lauren is. And I'm super grateful, you know, before Lauren, my last relationship was eight years, you know, so it'd been a long time.

Serial monogamist, dude.

I'm a. I guess so, you know?

Yeah.

And it was like a. So happy doing what I'm doing. And also, like, I just like, refused to settle. I was like, this is what, this is what I want to experience and the type of quality of person that I want to experience with. And if it's not that or doesn't feel like it, I'm cool.

What did you want to experience?

So one wanting someone who I could have deep, deep, heartfelt conversations with, someone.

Who had every woman just melted.

This is.

This is what all women want, actually. Don't you think?

I hope so.

I mean, let's say the majority, most women want what you just said. Why is it that it's so challenging for some of us men to find that at points in our lives? Do you think it's because of how you showed up in your eight year relationship or was it just the sole contract of both of you?

Maybe a combination of both. But what comes up is for those eight years, like, I was healing from a prior relationship that ended pretty traumatically. And so one I knew that I wanted to do. I needed to heal from that and to really heal from that. And I just wasn't someone who just wanted like. I got a bunch of advice from like old friends back in the. Not my. So much my friends now that were like, dude, you should go have sex with a girl. You'll get over it real quick.

I'm like, bad advice.

Do you really understand?

Pretty bad advice.

Serious right now. Like, that is so against, like, me and my code. So I have a code, right? Like, that is. That's a big part of who I am. Like, principal code. Like, integrity is a huge thing for me. And so getting out of that relationship, one, I wanted to allow enough time and thankfully that I'd actually right around happened when I was first working with Paul. So he was a huge. And then we had both shared, like, I think, yeah, you had shared on my podcast about the prayer that you had said to call in your. Your. Your soul companion. And so that was the same prayer that he had given me. So when you share that, I was like, oh, my God. But I remember, like, wanting to give myself enough time and space. But then for probably five years, I had said that I wanted that life companion and I wanted that person, but my actions were not in accordance with that. It's. So unless I would have met someone teaching, like, I was on the road almost again six plus months out of the year. And when I was at home, because I was like, I'm more of an introvert, for sure. I can show up, I can teach, I can do that. But that is so draining or can be so draining to me if I'm not filling the tank. So when I would get home, I don't want to talk to nobody. So. And I'm obviously not going to meet someone at the bar and the. Bro, you're going to love this. So the few. The small handful of online dates that I went on, I learned the word from my barber at the time when I actually had hair. But what the word catfish means. You know what this word means?

Oh, yeah. It's when they present themselves as someone.

They'Re not completely, completely fucking different. So I'm talking to this girl. She's telling me. I just remember one gal, she's telling me she's an athlete and all this stuff and does all the, you know, basketball player, all this stuff. And I see her from. We were going out to a dinner restaurant in San Mateo, not too far from my house, and I saw her from a far away, like, down the road. And my eyesight's not the greatest, I'll just say that, right? And I just knew from across the way, I was like, this is nowhere close. I just knew it was her. And I was so shocked in that moment.

How can a man or woman show up and pretend that they're not who they were online? How can they do that? How do you live with yourself when you catfish someone.

It was so possible. Well, when I went to the barber, they all laughed their asses off at me. They're like, dude, bro, you got catfish. And I was like, what? What do you mean?

I wonder why they call it a catfish. What's up with that?

I don't know. Whiskers, bro.

Interesting.

Wow.

Okay, so catfish.

So got catfish, you know, and then I was just like, screw the online dating. I was doing what I love doing. But as much as I said that I wanted that life partner and stuff like that, parts of me was not welcoming that in. In terms of. I was not creating any space, any space whatsoever. Maybe I would write down and. But it wasn't until probably, yeah, right when Covid happened. And what I'll always say is, is I am immensely gratitude for the ceremony that both Lauren and I were in and where we were at in the willingness, because it took. It took the. The. The shattering of the wall for me to really be open and be vulnerable. And really not even. I had no. Like, I had thought, quote unquote, that I had healed from that last relationship, but it wasn't. I could only do so much healing on my own. That's right. But it's only until I was faced with an actual. Actually, like, my heart being torn open that I actually saw that. Holy. And I just got chills right now. Holy. This scares me a lot. If this is real, if I'm feeling what I'm feeling for this gal, whatever it is, the stories, I'm really scared, and I don't know what that. I don't want to get hurt again. I do not want to fucking go through what I went through before. And so in that ceremony, at the end of when it was all closed and all that sort of stuff, nothing happened other than we were sitting on the same couch, and I felt feelings for her. And literally, I couldn't even speak because the medicine actually kicked up again. I had some citrus fruits that night, and so it kicked up again. So I was deep in it.

What type of medicine was it?

This was mushrooms. And so it kicked up again. And I remember it was like the end of the night. Everyone had gone their separate ways, like, in the house after we had closed. And I've known her for, like, 10 years before this, and we'd just been friends. And so I told him when she sat down, I was like, babe or not babe, at the time, I was like, lauren, I'm about to go through it. I just want to let you know, like, the medicine's kicking up again. She's like, oh, okay. She didn't know what was going on. But in that whole night, I couldn't even speak because it was so strong. And it was as if I was fighting a metaphoric dragon. And all I was doing was just crying and just going through it. And it was just that. This looping story of like, oh, my God, like, my heart's being open, like I feel something. I don't even know if it's for her, but I think it's for her. No, no, you can't do that. Don't let yourself feel that. You know what that's like. And it was this loop and loop, and all she did was hold space. And it wasn't until the few days later when we reconnected and just chatted about what happened that we started, you know, exploring it and unpacking it. To. To your point, what was I looking for in a relationship? Or what is it about Lauren? It's someone who. The feeling that I got, and I share this. You know, I've shared this a few times. The feeling with Lauren that I haven't felt with any other woman is this woman has got my back no matter what. And that was so big that it scared the shit out of me. But when I actually had time to sit and talk and debrief with her, it was just like, we used the joke. Whereas most women over those eight years were, like, trying to use the front door and knocking politely. She just. The medicine and her just, like, came in the black door with the keys, came in the stairs, up the stairs, and so she's got my back no matter what. And it's a knowing. It's a felt sense. And these two and a half years or almost three years that we've been together, and as you can. Like, life happens, the ways that she showed up for me in that I couldn't even. Couldn't even write on a sheet of paper. So that's at the heart of what I was looking for. Someone who I could have a heartfelt conversation with, be present with, grow alongside a lifelong learner and someone who's got my back that I know in my core. And I hadn't felt it remotely to that level before that point.

How long after the soulmate prayer did you meet her?

So I was working with 2015. So I started saying it probably in 2015. And then we got together, you know, 2020. So almost five years.

So every man. This is really interesting. You have. I can feel it from you. I mean, I'VE always felt it from you, but specifically today, you have a really big heart. You have a really big heart, and your heart is soft and your heart is of service. So I can absolutely. It's palpable. It's palpable with you, which is why people resonate with you. It's because they can feel that from you. And I wonder if you needed those five years to really experience being alone, so you knew how to tend to your own heart in that time.

Thank you, first and foremost, man. I appreciate that very much. I received that. And I do think, I don't know if it took five years, but I do know it took five years because that's exactly what it was. Perfect.

Otherwise it wouldn't have happened.

And I do believe that any stories that I told myself during that time that I want to be with someone, like, if I really like, if it was meant to happen, it would have happened. And the other thing that was happening in addition to Paul's prayer, I was writing down, like, everything that I've shared and then maybe a little bit more about what I wanted the relationship to be, what, how I wanted to feel together, what experiences we were going to have together, and wanting to have a kid with this lady. So it's amazing at how many things of that have come true. That being said, one of the wildest things is, is we were both doing for months the exact, exact same Joe Dispenza meditation. Always in the evening or in the morning. He's got a morning one and an evening one. And in that prayer, for almost three months, I was feeling and visualizing that life partner. And that was right before COVID and right before that medicine ceremony. And so I always still get freaked out. Oh, like when I'm sleeping, when we're sleeping in our bed, I'm like, babe, like right there. Like, literally, I would go cross legged either in the morning or in the night, sit right there and basically dream about you and feel into you and visualize you. And it was so wild because she was doing the exact same meditation we very well could have been and did multiple times at the exact same moment, the exact same time, calling in each other.

All right, and that sounds wild. No, it doesn't.

But it's true.

I didn't know. This is why I love podcasting. I didn't know we were gonna talk about this. Especially from a man with, like a fitness background, academia combo, being a teacher, being a guy. But of course, because how could you ever do any of those things unless you were in relationship with another woman, with another person. How could it possibly be that you could get all the tools and all the things you need to grow on your own? We're not built for that shit. We're not lone wolves. We're not designed to walk the prairie alone. That's why we have always congregated in packs.

But there is this like really cool.

Recipe as to why certain people are drawn to each other. And the whole time you were talking, I was thinking about quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement. Have you heard of the hundredth monkey effect? So there was this island and they did a study where they put 50 on one side and 50 monkeys on the other. I think it was like a 50, 50 mile wide island. Big island. There's no way these monkeys could have communicated with each other. And they put a bunch of coconuts in the sand, and the coconuts had sand all on. And 50 monkeys on the east side started washing the coconuts so that they could eat the coconuts. Well, the other 50 shortly after started doing the same thing. And it proved this quantum entanglement theory that is also talked about in a movie called what the bleep? Where you see the observer effect. If you watch particles, the act of watching them changes you. Doing the dispenza meditation at the same time as Lauren. Literally and scientifically, spiritually, in a quantum way, brought you together, made you more susceptible to being in the magnetic attraction field together. And so it just so happened. And this is where we combine like God's will with free will that you guys met. When you look back on that, can you see that it was absolutely fucking perfect that you had to wait those five years? And can you speak to someone with us right now who's on year six, who's on year seven, who's on year eight? And they're starting to close their heart. They're starting to not trust life. They're starting to disconnect from the quantum. Can you speak to them about your own experience? Because we all have that feeling where we start to close it and it's like, oh, love isn't real. I don't want it. That shit's real sometimes.

Yeah. And I think what's coming up is the first thing that I would just say is looking back every. And I'm not just saying this every single day, every single year was worth it. Without a doubt. I wouldn't change one thing. Even when I would get. I'm fucking, I'm human, I get lonely, right? Especially when I was out there teaching so much and, you know, there was challenges leaving my family business and all sorts of stuff. Like, I really didn't feel like I had very many people, if anybody that I could truly celebrate wins with. I was doing all this great stuff, and I'd be teaching in these. And I was. The students were having these great, you know, transformations or whatever, but who the hell am I going to share it with myself? You know, some buddies that I would see sometime, but when I get home, I'd be so goddamn tired. And one of the things that I would want to do is share it with someone. And so looking back, I mean, the first thing that I would say is, yo, if you're on year six, probably one of the hardest things, but also one of the most necessary things is to trust. And it will challenge. It will challenge you. Like, this is real. Like, I was single for eight years. I was single, so. And I. And I made. I got catfished twice, I think. And then I dated one gal for like a month or so, and that didn't work. And that was basically it for eight years. It wasn't like I was dating all this stuff. So I can really relate to really wanting something or parts of me wanting something, whether I was acting in alignment with that or not and feeling lonely. But if you have a passion, if you have a dream, that's probably one of the first places, because that kept me occupied and kept a lot of my heart full for many part of it. So sticking to that and being of service and following my passion, because I knew too, if I'm going to find someone or someone's going to find me or whatever's going to happen, I want them to. And I always said this and kind of, she did find me because she did kettlebell lifestyle. And she was actually telling me last night, she's like, maybe if it wasn't for kettlebell lifestyle that she did, and then I invited her to this ceremony, we actually wouldn't be together. And I remember saying I wanted someone. I wanted to find someone when I was teaching. And not because I was in a teacher role or anything like that, but the reason why that was is when I'm teaching, I literally. The stories, all that shit, I fucking feel so on purpose. And so me. And I was like, that's the energy that I want that person to recognize me in. And so if someone is, you know, doubting and they're on year six, it will challenge you. But at the same time, I got to practice trust. And it was absolutely worth it.

I want to challenge you. I Want to challenge all of us right now. You know, we've heard this phrase from relationship experts, and I promise we're going to get to some questions. I wanted to ask you about Combo, because that's a big one. Like, I don't feel called to it, but I'm curious. Your path and. And also how that dovetailed into you creating the Path podcast. So before we get there, though, I want to challenge you about when you say that you wanted to find somebody when you're on your purpose. And I've heard a lot of relationship experts say, as long as you're just, like, on your purpose and you're not looking, then you'll find someone. I actually call bullshit on that. I think you can do both. And I'm curious how you feel. You were going out, you were teaching, you were in your purpose. You were literally. And you were an expression of your most authentic, your most highest self. Right? Then when you get with the partner, what attracted you to each other was that you saw her highest self and she saw yours. But then when you get together, another party comes in, and that is the current self, the lower self. And so how do you make room for all of these? How have you made room for all of these? How has she been a mirror for you to look at the lower self, the shadow and all that? And do you really think that this whole adage of if you're not looking, it'll find you is real? Two questions melded into one.

I appreciate you bringing that up, because I do think it's both, because then, like, I mean, I think it can happen, because it really did happen in that ceremony when I wasn't expecting it.

Okay.

And, like, I'm going to. She did.

Kettlebell lifestyle, which you are. On purpose.

I was on.

And you also had the desire for a partner, and you'd done the prayer with Paul, so. Come on. It's so fun. I'm challenging you here, dude.

It's so funny. I mean, the ego. Like, the ego, let's go. I mean, parts of me knew. Parts of me didn't know it was on purpose and off. Like, I don't even know, man. I think it is both, dude. All right? I think it can be both. But I think if I'm to look back, I mean, the synchronicities, like. Well, the other thing, too, about me, bro, and my friend use this as an example, is like, sometimes you got to hit me with a velvet sledgehammer to, like. Like, with my head being down. Like, sometimes. Even. Even growing up, If a girl was interested in me, you didn't have the radar. Dude, that's not even a word. Like, we're talking 1920s radar. There was radar, bro.

Yeah.

So with that being said, I can get so in things that, like, no clue of what's happening around me. So that's kind of my nature as well. So that's why I think these synchronicities, if I'm looking back, like, yeah, Paul's thing, the kettlebell license. We'd been friends for 10 years. I mean, she had opened this organic, beautiful restaurant that I had eaten at and, like, all these sorts of things. But I just like. I mean, it's truly like, I wasn't looking for what was genuinely right in front of me.

Yeah.

So I think both. But it also takes that awareness piece to recognize it.

That also is a testament to the. The childlikeness and the. The vulnerability and the pureness of your heart. Because I think a lot of people look at relationships like, what can I get? How quickly can I get? And what can I receive from this person? Rather than, what does this person feel like to me? What does this person actually feel like? And how do they make me feel? A lot of the times, and this goes to that second half of the question, people will get together. And I felt this too, in relationship. And probably what brings a lot of people to combos well, is their looking to clean out what doesn't serve them right on a somatic level and also on an energetic and emotional level, too, which we're going to talk about in just a minute here, because I'm really fascinated by that world. But to clean the loop on this last one, when you and Lauren came together, how quickly did she start to mirror the parts of your lower self and your shadow? And how has that mirror continued in your highest service?

Wow. I mean, right away. Because even in that medicine ceremony, like, I was getting mirrored many things, but.

From her, from her, from the medicine.

From the medicine. But also, like, the idea. Well, the medicine's only going to magnify what's already inside me. So it's like.

Yeah.

So, like. Yes. And I don't know how quite to express that, but at the same time, I mean, right away, right after, when we were doing a debrief or just hanging out to share our experiences, we went on a hike.

You weren't getting naked. No, you said debrief. You meant, like. You meant, like, military style debrief.

Okay, dude, that's my. My clueless danger covenant, dude. But at the same time, when we were on the hike, man, just like learning about her and learning about her family and then me talking about all those fears in the past and what the last relationship was and because I don't, if I recall correctly, I don't think she knew about how my last relationship had ended and stuff like that. And so. But dude, she's done so much work on herself and obviously we're both works in progress and this, this process. But at the same time, man, she can hold some incredible space. And when someone can hold that and at least hold a space of, I mean everyone we're all judging in some regard. But if someone can hold a like open space for me to share, especially after medicine, like, I'm gonna dive right in, especially with that feeling that she's got my back no matter what. So I mean it happened right away. But what I will say is some of the most challenging things that came up in the last two and a half years. What I started realizing was, man, every time something would come up, we would get so much closer after. And I'll use an example. So part of my pattern is to when challenged, when scared, whatever. One of my dominant responses to it is to flight, right?

Avoidance.

Avoidance, like because also up my nature. Like there's two parts about my, like what I've realized. Like I'm tend towards being the perfectionist on things, but also I have a big like peacemaker inside. And so like the not to want, the not the, the not desire to want to stir things up or create conflict has always been something that, that I've avoided. And so when things would come up, whether it's a difference of opinion or we'd be in a ceremony or whatever it was an issue with my dad or her dad, whatever it is, one of my big go to things would be I, I, like I've, I love sleep and I've always slept a lot since a kid. And it's also an escape for me. And it's been a way for. Sometimes it's necessary, like I'm tired at night or whatever. But it's also been a way for me to hide and like, no, I don't want to go into this right now. And so the amount. And that's how I've coped for years in and out of relationships. And so I remember so many times, whereas her, she's, she's someone who I've learned to like meet and engage conflict with heart and with productive nature. And that's been like, she'll say like that's one of My greatest strengths now. But it absolutely wasn't always that way. And that being said, I would go in bed and, like, turn the other way back. Can we talk about this tomorrow? Can we do this tomorrow? And she would, like, just literally stare at the ceiling and be like, I'm just not okay with this. And I really had to look at myself and be like, mike, what type of relationship do you want to have now and in the future? What type of man do you want to be? And I don't care if you're tired. We need to have a conversation. You need to say something. And so what I ended up doing in those moments was I would voice to her, I would preface. And this I found really helpful. So maybe any guy who's listening and having difficulty communicating when being challenged in relationship is. I would start off with by saying, like, lauren or babe, this is really hard for me to share, and I don't know how this is going to come out, but I'm going to do my very best. So if you can just please keep that in mind, I would be so grateful. It was something to the effect of that and just voicing the difficulty that I was having, but I was still gonna try anyway. And just like anything, through repetition, we start developing a skill. And over time. I don't even know how many times that's happened. At least 12 times over the last two and a half years, there's been.

That's pretty good.

12.

Wow, that's a great batting average. 12 times in two years?

Dude, I don't even know.

All the couples listening are like 12 times. Do that in a month. No, go ahead.

There's something really interesting about fasting. A lot of people have done fasting.

For a lot of years.

Literally, for thousands of years, human beings have fasted for cognition, for energy, for mental clarity, and for health, specifically autophagy, which is the scientific term for cellular cleanup. The only challenge is that fasting, when you're working with kids or just a full life is kind of the last thing you think about when it comes to health.

But what if I told you you.

Could get the benefits of fasting without actually starving yourself? Would you be interested? I know I was. I just didn't know how to do it until I came across hvmn. They make a product called Ketone iq.

This product's really cool.

You can get exogenous ketones, which are ketones outside the body. You can mimic all the health benefits, the clarity, the appetite suppression, the cellular cleanup, all the good stuff, just by taking These ketones in a little shot form, they're really inexpensive, they're really energy producing. And here's the coolest part. They don't have any caffeine. So you're not going to get a crash in the afternoon like you would if you slammed four and five cups of coffee. Head over to JoshTrent.com HVMN use the code Josh. You get 20% off your ketone IQ shots. You can get the shots in a little bottle. You can buy. Try little stacks of them. Put them in your gym bag, put them in your car. I actually just had one this afternoon because I realized no more caffeine. If you're at that point where you're just done with the energy spikes and crashes of caffeine, head over to joshtrent.com forward/hvmn. Use the code Josh. Save 20% and get all the benefits of fasting without starving yourself.

But just, I mean, when it. When it was really challenging and I could. I was observing the pattern. And so with the awareness of the pattern going on, then I have a choice. Okay, so now that I'm aware that I want to escape and my solution for that or my coping is sleep and I'm having difficulty in conversation, what do I want to choose now? And what I'm so grateful for is what I'll always talk about Lauren. And my experience over is she's been incredibly patient with me. So patient. And I'm not saying so important. Well, I'm not saying that it hasn't been difficult for her and she hasn't wanted things.

When is patience ever easy?

Yeah, absolutely, man. And so she's. She's been able to hold that space and if something's come up, she'll even say like, something to the effect of, like. It's really hard for me to hear that right now, but, like, I'm trying to.

Yeah.

And I think at the end of the day, what I was really looking for and why we continue to build is the willingness. If that willingness is there, man, I've got. And I'm developing so much compassion for her and for myself just because we are both willing to be there for each other and the love is there and I'm committed to this thing for the long term. So all I knew what I needed was. And I've shared this with her, like, I just need as much as you can to be patient with me and know that I'm trying and I'm in this for the long term.

Yeah. This is, this is a classic Anxious Avoidant Dance that Wired for Love talks about and the Gottmans and a lot of different people in the relationship world. The Anxious Avoidant Dance, when properly regulated with the right amount of love and intention, can be the most healing fucking cyclone on the planet. Two, Avoidance don't work because nobody ever talks about anything too. Anxious don't work either, because they stress each other out. There actually has to be this polarity with men and women, and it's the opposite in my relationship, which, you know, we're both learning how to be more securely attached in the center. She has a proclivity for avoidance. I have a proclivity for anxious. So it's flipped with us. So where I'd be the one laying in bed going, like, let's talk about this girl. Come on, like, what's up? Let's get to it. And she'd be like, I'm tired. I want to go to bed. So I think it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. This dynamic exists for the sole purpose of healing. And I'm really wondering for you, when you started the podcast and when you looked at your own path for healing, you started the podcast, which is called the Path, by the way, which is a great title. At some point, this frog medicine, Combo, found you. How did it find you? And then you went on to actually now lead and facilitate the healing. Right? To actually be the one that administers Combo to other people. How did that all unfold? How did that happen?

So much of it happened. Like, I think much of the stories in my life started with the athletic route. So part of it was at the time, I was sponsored by a float center in the Bay Area. Oh, which one? Balance Float and Redwood City. Amazing place. And they really believed in what I was trying to do, the way I was trying to do it. And it was a synergistic thing. And I was already floating, like. Like, I'd been floating before that for, like, six years. One of the first float places in the Bay membership. Like, I was floating all the time. And so I just loved the owners and what they were doing there. And they were so supportive. Yeah, they were just ungodly supportive in so many ways. I just remember one way. Like, I remember doing 30 days of everyday floats after a medicine ceremony. And they're like, you want to come in every day to integrate that? Go for it. And they were, like, just fully in with me. And so the owner of the place had told me about Combo, and he's like, I think this might Be something that you would be interested in. Like, it was a warrior's medicine, and it can really help you and potentially, you know, might be worth exploring. And at that time, for so much of my life, like, I would get sick if I was traveling and on the road a lot. Anything more than, I don't know, like, five or so days due to sleep, due to food, due to outputting. Usually when I'm traveling, whether it was with my family, business, or even teaching on the road, I would usually catch a cold. And it was like. So I was, like, used to it, almost expecting it. And then when I started doing combo, and in the beginning, I think the first year, I only did it twice.

Not only what made you even drawn to it at the first place? Was it just the suggestion of the float owner? Yeah, just a suggestion.

Just curious. Like, I'm super curious. I mean, I want to, like, I really feel like I'm here to explore and live life and not be reckless, per se. But, like, if it's coming from a vetted friend and I know that they're connecting me with someone legit, and they're like, I think you would explore it. And I have so much respect for this guy. I'm like, yo, I'm listening. And so, like, anything, I want to figure it out for myself. And so I had that experience. And what ended up happening was, like, the next day, I felt like I could run through a brick wall. I was like, wow. Like, I just had a lot of energy. And what I started noticing is as I was traveling and teaching after that was point, like, I'd be on the road for two weeks abroad, teaching like a maniac, like, non. Like, not sustainable stuff, trying to hustle, trying to build a brand, trying to teach, get my name out there. And, like, wasn't getting sick. And I remember, like, even just now, like, having a recollection in. I think it was Florence at a train station. And I was, like, having conversation with someone. I was like, on the phone. I'm like. I'm, like, genuinely shocked right now. I'm not getting sick. Like, I've been on the road for I don't even know how many days now. So that just started coming up, and I started feeling more vital. And then I was, like, really connected to the fact that, you know, with psychedelic, which is not a psychedelic medicine.

But with psychedelics, what you can classify as an entheogen.

Define that word for me. I'm not quite sure.

Well, my definition might be different, but an entheogen is any plant or Substance that produces an altered state of consciousness. But that's my definition. I'm sure science has their own.

Maybe in the sense of. In my own experience. And then the people who have sat with me who have had experiences on psychedelics, not all of them, but a good handful of them, have described being able to get into an altered state on combo. But I don't think that's classically like. That's one of the reasons why I appreciated it so much was the fact that you are. Are super present like you are. There's no escaping when you're in combo or like, it's very hard to escape. You're coping because it is such or can be an uncomfortable experience and you are conscious with it. Like you're not. Again, if you've had experience, maybe you can go out there and have some visions and stuff like that. But I appreciated that it was very much of the body, and I was so connected to that in my own journey that I was like, wow. Like, I don't know what the word is, but, like, I felt like I was. I already had a relationship with how it worked. And while there was still so much time and experiences to develop that relationship further, it just felt like I felt like intuitively maybe that I could. Already knew in some ways how to work with it, how to breathe with it. I'm uncomfortable. I can sit with this. The purging and the releasing felt so therapeutic to me that it felt like again. And that's why I went down the path of actually serving it, is because I actually felt a connection to.

How many ceremonies did you do before you started leading other people in it?

I'll just throw out the number again.

12.

Okay. No, but it was. Well, well, I mean, because even before training, you have to assist or be a part of six. And then the first year I did two. Second year, I think I did one a quarter. Then the third year, it was like once every two months. So maybe over 15 or so before I even remotely went to training.

And so in that. Because this is for my own, and I'm sure all of us that are here, this is for my own satisfaction of knowing. I want to talk about the science in a minute. But just anecdotally, like, on a. On a visceral level, on a spiritual level, what exactly is happening when the medicine goes in the cause it's an excitotoxin, or what is it exactly that's happening with the combo? What's going on there?

So it's a secretion from a particular type of tree frog and essentially the way it's administered, for those who don't know, typically what you'll do, and it can come via in the form of a stick, like in a dried resin or in a powdered form. Each one typically has a different strength and this is a natural quote medicine. So there is variance within what I'm saying and obviously the individual absolutely matters on the dose.

Yeah.

But that being said, typically what you'll do is you'll take like a small incent, you'll burn the superficial layer of skin. And what they call is like each, each gate is essentially like a burn that you'll clean after. And then you take the resin or the powder and then you apply it to the actual skin or the open skin. And so what happens is what you'll see is that this shiny liquid which is the lymphatic system, basically lymphatic fluid. And so it goes through the lymphatic system. And I will say it's one of those things like a lot of this stuff that we do know something about for sure. Like there's more research coming out, but we still like, I believe like we still don't know a fraction of, of its potential or what it is and stuff like that. So basically what's happening is there's a whole slew of peptides, bioactive peptides, so peptides that are so small chains of amino acids that are friendly to the body. And each peptide has like a different function, let's just say. So there's certain peptides that are really good for fungal and parasite issues. There's certain ones that are really good. Like I know even in the training that I was at as like an anecdotal story, like there was, I mean if you're attracted to go down the route of training with this, it's not an enjoyable medicine at all. Like it's not, it's uncomfortable. So typically the people that are going to be drawn to this are probably going to have had some type of significant story or breakthrough or whatever and it was really cool. So in the. So I've gone through a two week quote basic, but it was full on for two weeks, then an advanced training. And I remember in the basic training for those two weeks, I mean people were coming who have had massive addictions to fentanyl, to massive back pain issues, to fungal and parasite issues. So each peptide is going to have a specific function. Essentially what happens is it's a, it's the experience is going to, is going to depend on the person and where they're at, etc. But typically in general, a ceremony or whatever you want to call it is 20 to 45 minutes of the medicine actually on you. Oftentimes you'll drink. You can do. It's more of an advanced treatment, but you can do it dry, without water. But typically it's served with some type of liquid water or something called like kaisuma, which is like a root vegetable slurry. Some tribes, I heard will do that.

Why do they do that?

From what I heard in my own experience with it, it's a little bit easier of a purge to actually have something there. But then also too, what I noticed is because it's a purification medicine or a purgative medicine. Now, the purge can come in many ways, as you know very well. I would say out the back or.

Out the front or.

Yeah. Or laughing, shaking, crying. Right. Any of that stuff. But the most common is typically going to be an. An upper purge. But certainly you can have. I. I think some people do themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very true. I actually remember a guy in training that like we were doing. The initiation in training was a three by three. So you had to do three ceremonies in three hours, which is a lot.

Yeah.

But that was at the very end. I remember him, he's like. I think he had asked, if I recalled, he'd either wrapped towels in his underwear or asked one of the gals for a pat. He's like, I'm not moving from this pad.

Wow.

If I gotta go, I gotta go. And I was like, respect, brother. Like, you do what you gotta do. You do you. If I.

That's a real man to wear a maxi.

Yeah, it does. Oh, gosh. Well, it'll humble you, man. It humbled me. I don't want to say it'll humble you, you because your experience will be your experience, but it humbled me many times and. But it is a purgative and it's typically 20 to 45 minutes. You have a liquid and typically what you'll purge sometimes is of course the water. But you'll tend to, once you get into it, you'll tend to oftentimes purge like a bile. And that's a lot of whatever. I'm not even going to say what. I know what it is, but whatever toxins, stuff like that in the body, you will release that stuff. And so what I've really found it to be powerful for is, yes, the physical aspect, but the more that I've sat with it and to something that you Shared. I think on my podcast earlier, one of the things on how you've changed in your use of even just psychedelics is. And I've changed this with combo as well in all things. Like, I sit with much less. And what I realized is like, I don't even know if you want to call it a micro dose. You can call it microdose. Like, I'll even sit with just one point. And I've done. I've worked up to a lot of points. And what I've realized is, is like, man, I don't even need very much. And especially if I go in with a greater level of intention and knowing what I want to get out of it, whatever. Almost like I always have this vision, like there's a mantle. And if my preparation before is like setting on the mantle, the things that I really either want to let go of, that's a. That's a general theme. That's that Kombo tends to work well with because it's purification, because it's a purgative medicine. It works really well with the theme of letting go. So if you have those things that you want to work on and everyone's going to have their own experience. But it has been very helpful for me. And it kind of just like knocks those things off and gives me a little bit extra, but I don't. And also too, my approach to that and all things today on the psychedelic and the medicine is like minimum effective dose. I really, maybe every few years, maybe I'll want to have the curiosity to really go into it deep and stuff like that. But like minimum effective dose, if I'm doing the work before, if I'm coming in with a clear intention and that thing can just help. I want to work. I like, I'm in such the perspective now, not just with combo, like, I want to work with the medicine. I don't want to get my ass handed to me every time where I can't even put together. And then I'm like, just like, I'm just so out of my body for weeks. Like that does it. I want productive and I want connected.

There are very few, like less than 0.01% of people on the planet. You know, like our buddy Kyle Kingsbury, that can do 30 grams or big doses. And. And by the way, he's had his own healing journey. You guys can check out his podcast on that. Like, he had a pretty severe time going that deep. But I'm really curious about this because I hiked Mount Whitney a couple times, three times, one Time I didn't make it. The mountain kicked my ass so hard, I thought I was going to die. I actually was, like, having the altitude sickness, vomiting, edema. And I came down from the mountain, and I was just like, thank you, God. I was so relieved. And then a week after it put me into such a deep meditation and deep reflection, I realized that, like, I wasn't leading my life in the right way. There were certain things I wasn't being honest about, and that was with no combo needed. But I definitely got a physical experience that shocked me into having an emotional release or a spiritual intervention in a way. What has been the most powerful or one of the most powerful ways that you yourself have had a spiritual cleansing from Kambo?

So a few things come up, but I'll start off by saying I think it. Yeah, it was in that first beginner training when we were doing the initiation. Because at that point, it was at towards the end of the training, and you had already. Because there's different ways that you can serve and receive. Like you can. The classically, traditionally, men will get it on the outside of the left shoulder, ladies on the inside of the right.

Why is that?

Why are those locations matter?

Okay, so I don't know how true this is, but from what I recall learning, the further from the heart it is. Well, this has also been my experience, too, but the further from the heart it is, the more gradual it is to come on.

I think I'd get mine on my ankle then.

Dude, you do you.

And combo has always scared the out of me.

Yeah.

Which is maybe probably the thing that I could explore at some point if it scares me that much. Is it a rational fear or is it an irrational fear? But I digress a little bit, so keep going.

No, but I think. Well, I want to just hit on that because I think that is such a super important question. It's so important to get clear with yourself or as clear as you can. And part of that only comes from asking the question, like, and that's if, you know, I. I've really taken the approach that now, because also, too, serving combo takes a lot of energy. Like, I'm preparing the night before.

Not.

Only setting the space, but preparing for the people. Then there's intake on it and trying to check, making sure it's safe for them. And then also the day of. And then energetically to serve that many people. Like, I'm wiped. And it's not a financial thing for me. Literally, what I would do is like, donation. So it's like, it's not. And also too, I've had to get clear with where I'm going and trying to support a family. So now really combo for me on my journey, at least at this point is for myself, for my family and for my close friends. That's basically how I feel great with serving it because it's not a business thing. It's not like I don't. I never would want it to be that. So I've gotten really clear. But to your question or to something that you brought up when I'm hopping on the phone with people, like, my question is, and I try and get on the phone with them as early as possible, like, why do you want to do this? Just please, like there's no, like you have open mic share. And if it's just. I'm curious. Awesome. Keep asking some questions like, let's connect again. Like, here's some homework to really reflect on because it, you know, even though my role there first and foremost is to do my very best to keep the situation safe, to if you get stuck, to help use some tools to help push you and to hold space for you, it's really your journey with that medicine. And so and it, I think they call it the great. I think they call it the Great Revealer, if I recall correctly. And so. So I just really would encourage you or anybody to keep asking the questions. And if it's a no, if it's a no, it's a no.

It's a no. It's a no right now. I don't know about forever, but it's a no right now for me, immediately. I know what it is. It's about parasites and fungus. But before I do that, I'm doing the approach, the 90 day approach from internal cleanse. So I'm doing the internal cleanse, approaching that first. And then at the end of that, I will ask the question. I will ask my soul. I will ask God, is Kambo something that I can do to relieve me of whatever invaders are in me? Because we all have parasites, we all have pathogens.

We do.

Most of us are walking around with tons of that shit in our body and we just simply don't know. It's a blind spot. We don't even know that we don't know. But it can lead to so many things. Like when you were talking about being sick, I also get sick quite a lot. And I've been like that my whole life. I have to be vigilant with my sleep. And being a father, it's like that gets Taxed. So a lot of what I'm mentioning here comes to this crux, this big question. If you held your hands together and if you put everything that was important to you in your hands, like Lauren and Luca and your family and your career and everything else, how has Kambo helped you to hold all of these things?

Holy. That's such a good.

Actually hold it all.

Well, when you're. It's one thing to. To sit in med and to sit in combo, right? It's one thing like, that's a whole experience, and it's a completely another thing. Completely another thing to hold space and to actually facilitate. Totally couldn't be further from one another. I mean, you. You can maybe have. You know, you can. You can have a relative experience, and you can maybe empathize a little bit and, like, you understand maybe where someone remotely is in the. In the session, in the ceremony, like, all that stuff absolutely helps. Yeah, Right. But when you are serving, it's been one of the most direct teachers for me on the depth of the human experience. And witnessing someone going through a ceremony.

It.

If that doesn't, like, bring you down or bring myself down to a human level, I don't know what is. Because literally, they are releasing, letting go. And what is one of the hardest speaking for me in particular, but also of the people I've served, oftentimes people are attracted to it because they want to let go of something, something that they've been holding on to. And if they've been holding on to something and they're coming to a ceremony for that, they've probably probably held onto that for a long time. And there's a lot of things tied to that. Conditioning, relationships, how the world sees them, how they see themselves, expectation. All of these things are tied to that. And so when someone comes, and not always everyone's gonna have their experience, but if they come and they're willing to go through that and they. And they meet Kambo kind of in the middle and becomes a friend with him, and they learn how to work with him. It man, what is not even on the. I don't even want to get to what's on the other side yet. Because when you're in it, those 20 to 45 minutes, for me, oftentimes feels quite a bit longer than that. Sometimes it feels fast. But what I've really learned is, like, when you can bring the physical component of it with the mental, emotional of, like, bringing in a conscious purge and really feeling what it is that you want to let go of. And you bring that into the actual purge in the bucket. And even after, like, we release it to the earth, we say a prayer for it, we give thanks to it, because that. All that stuff served for some reason, like we were saying, it's all perfect. It all got us here. So what does it help me do for Luca, for Lauren, first and foremost is to hold space and hold this. I really feel like it's helped me and continues to help me to build a larger well or a larger basin. Whatever you want to do to hold an experience. So when Lauren's going through it, whatever her experience of motherhood or a challenge with me, or a challenge with her family, it's given me so much real world experience to hold her, but not necessarily attach a meaning, but just realize she's human, she's going through shit. I can hold this. And when you're doing that in a ceremony, like, that's outside of keeping someone safe. That is the number one thing I do. So I do, like with the retreats, I do a lot. And I also don't do jack shit. My job is to hold the space. And you allow whatever is meant to come through to come through and give that person, not give that person, but, like, help create just the safe space and just let them have their experience. And sometimes they may not even purge and then they might look at me. Am I doing this wrong? Yeah, like, you can't do it wrong. You just can't.

All right, two big things. First, who is Combo? Not for? Are there people that have certain medical predispositions that would really remove them from the opportunity of receiving the purgative? Let's start there. That's number one.

Yeah, there's. There's actually, like, I've got a whole list on this, so it's like, it's quite a bit, but, like, off the top of my head, I mean, anybody with heart conditions, for sure, anyone who has any type of, like, disorders like schizophrenia, any mental disorders, anything like that, even I believe you've had, like, certain, like, recent surgery. It's a massive vasodilator. Like, you'll feel when you're on it, your heart rate pumping. So there's certain things like that.

So you have to be physically healthy enough for the ceremony.

Yes and no. Like, there's different ways that you can serve. Like, for example, are there obese people that do combo? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's. There's people who have had and they're.

Hurt, probably already taxed.

I've plenty, you know, I don't know if it's like, you know, again, like, having an actual arrhythmia of the heart or stuff like that, or I've had a past history of, you know, heart disease or stroke, stuff like that. Like, I wouldn't advise someone to do that, but before someone were to sit with me, like, there's a whole list of stuff, but those are some of the biggest red flags. But also too, if someone has had any type of, like, this is maybe just me, and I don't even remember if this is a contraindication, but if anyone's had like a series of ulcers or for sure, stuff like Barrett's esophagus, stuff like that, because it is a purgative. And there's stomach acid that goes through. So you just want to be really careful with that. So those are some of the biggest things that comes off at the top of my head. But there's certainly more. And it is definitely not for everybody.

Right.

Even though, again, it's legal and, like, there's some beautiful aspects of it. I hope if anybody has listened to this and this, hopefully, if anything, illustrates to any listener to you, like, how much respect I have for the process, because it is really powerful. It is really powerful and it deserves to be respected. And I'm not just saying that. I'm saying that because I've had experience and like, it's been now almost six years, I think five, six years that I've served and received a lot of. And it's from an actual loving place and a real place. But to your question, like, even if someone is elderly or someone has lacking vitality, there's so many different ways that you can treat. For example, like when I've served Lauren, she really loves a layered treatment. Or if someone's near on their cycle, a lady. So basically, as opposed to normally, when I serve, especially if it's someone's first time sitting with me, you always do a test point point, and you just observe. And one of the nice things about combo is it's pretty easy or easy to work with in the sense of as soon as I pull off a point, almost immediately you won't be back to normal, but you'll start feeling better almost right away. So always do a test point. But then as opposed to doing a test point and then whatever the full dose, let's say, is deemed to be a layered treatment. Typically what it would be is you put one and there's always a check. Like I'm always checking in with the person scale of 1 to 10. Where are you at? How are you feeling? So we can stay connected in the process. So there's a whole kind of way that. That I go about some people in.

The first point, just go 10.

Yeah. Sometimes it can be a lot. Yeah. I mean, especially people's tolerance and like, what's happening in that moment. Like, your sense of control, like, you're. It's a big thing. It's a vulnerable medicine. The sense of, like, your faculties are being challenged. No doubt. So I've had people with. With one points, you know, not quite freak out, but just like, this is a lot. And, you know, I'll check in with.

And that's okay. That's totally okay. That it's a lot for them.

Yeah. And sometimes people said, take it off.

Right.

And I'll check in with them and be like, can you give it, like, a few more seconds or give it another minute? Because I. And oftentimes it passes, but a part of the process too. And I feel this, and I do this at the retreats as well. And I'd love to share. One aspect of that too, is in the retreats, we don't do any medicine. I mean, we do cacao, and then there's an optional rape, tobacco. And with the rape, for example, it's just like combo in this sense. If I go around the circle and I say, you know, this is truly up to you if you want to receive this. And some people will say no. And then a few guys have told me, I'm like, oh, man, I'm sorry I said no. I'm like, brother, like, check. Like, not check yourself, but, like, I'm so. Like, when you said no, I celebrate you. Because that is an empowered decision.

Yeah.

And the medicine is that. That is for me, that is the heart of it. And so to have someone step into that empowerment, like, obviously with Kamba, like, I want to check with them and let them know, like, I give them a whole kind of breakdown of likely when it's going to calm down and that sort of stuff. But if they tell me no, like, I want it off and I check back in. Awesome. That's where you're at today. I would invite you. After we pull it off, just sit, because the medicine's still going to be working with you a little bit. It. So just sit with it. See what you can breathe through. So it's. I mean, there's so much that comes to mind.

So much how. And then the second question is the peptides you mentioned, the cleaning agents that go into the Lymphocytes. And that helps, really? It sounds like almost prime or pump the lymphatic system, right? These peptides. How much in your research and even in your own experience, have you seen the reason why people feel so good when they're done with combo is because of the adrenaline spike and the catecholamines and the purgative. How much is it that they're done with the ceremony and they feel so good, the pain is over versus actually scientifically, the scrubbing agents going in and eradicating the parasites, eradicating the invaders.

I think that's such a good point. And maybe my view now is changing. And part of this actually came up in a recent combo with in a different way.

We could say this for ayahuasca or any medicine, by the way, totally in purgatory. Breath work. Even.

Breath.

Even. Breath work.

Because like, I was having this conversation with Stephen Jaggers just the other day on on the Path podcast, which he leaves Somatic Shout.

Self Self marketing right there. No, it's good.

Well, he brings this up and it really, like it really showed me or taught me something. And he leads Somatic Release. Breath work. And one of the things that he was saying in that is like, you know, part of the thing is, and how I'm gonna paraphrase and interpret in my words is oftentimes people's baselines of stress. And that sort of shit is so high that we need to almost increase it in order to feel the opposite of what's there. So I've done this. I'm sure you've done this maybe before. Breath work. You tense everything. You tense your fists, you tense your biceps, you tense your legs, your ass, your abs. And you create that tension for a few seconds, sure, and then you release. But because you've upregulated now you have a relative experience. And because so many people are like, they're so facilitated. Like, if I told someone who was super stressed, like, yo, let's. Let's do some mindfulness right now, it would be so hard, near impossible for them to down regulate. So sometimes I think they're, you know, whether it's the peptides doing it or exactly what you said, when you have some such. This juxtaposition of experiences, when your heart rate's up and when you're sweating and when you're uncomfortable, when you're purging, vomiting, man, when that shit stops, this massive sense of. How I would describe it, sense of peace, you really get to see it from a. Not see, but from a Felt experience. Yeah, you get to experience a sense of, of calm and of peace and what that can be. So, I mean, the more, you know, I'm sure the peptides are doing their thing. But just from my own experience and doing this, this work, like I think it. There is a big piece of that, that switching of. From intensity to peace or relaxation.

Wow, that's huge. We have to round this out because there's so much in this conversation of healing, which is really us trying to die gracefully, or in other words, how to age gracefully. And as we age gracefully, we. Actually, I heard Jordan Peterson say this, which was fucking brilliant. He said that if we don't die properly, then we get cancer. And I thought, what? And then he went in to explain. The body has certain ways that it gets rid of things as we age gracefully. Right. Like even if you look at autophagy or when you fast and cellular cleanup, the body has certain systems that is naturally letting things go. So from your experience with letting go of the old relationship and letting go of the things that don't serve you, and even now, letting go of the knee pain, letting go of the fear of the future with, with luca, like in all the areas we've explored, if you were to describe it from your most highest self. How do we age gracefully?

So much of our physical body can benefit from training not just muscles and joints, but heart. And the way we support the heart through cardiovascular training or weight training or yoga, or just anything at all that involves human movement can be totally supported by beets. The only thing is to eat red beets. You'd have to eat a lot of red beets to naturally boost your nitric oxide levels and promote heart health and energy. That's why I do the organifi red juice along with many other superfoods. But let's just focus right now on the beets. Beets are inside of this superfood blend. It's a powder. You add it in water, you shake it up before a workout. During a workout, beets are rich in folate, vitamin B9. This helps cells grow and function. And folate plays a key role in controlling damage to blood vessels, which can reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke. Beets are really high in nitrates, which turn into nitric oxide in the body. Studies show that nitric oxide helps with cardiovascular fitness and muscular fitness when it comes to human movement and also strength and weight training. This is something that's easy. We get to stack the environment in our favor so that we make it.

Easy for ourselves to Take these superfoods.

Wherever and whenever we go somewhere. Head over to JoshTrend.com Organifi use the code WellnessForce. You get 20% off the Organifi red filled with this nitric oxide boosting red beet juice. That's joshtran.com Organifi it's something I take every day by the way, before I train. I've even taken it in the sauna as well and I've noticed a good flush that I get from it. Joshtrend.com forward/organifi use the code Wellnessforce. You get 20% off.

Well, I think what you shared is going to illustrate the first thing that comes up without much thought and it's create the space and then get clear on what you want to fill that space with. So if there's something, a thought, an idea, a physical fungal parasite, create the space, do whatever you need to do. And there's so many different whatever it's a fungal protocols or combo or whatever. Create the space and then get courageous enough to get clear on now that the space is created, what's possible now. And that's one thing that I've really, really speaks to my heart because I think in a lot of this work, this personal growth work or medicine work or whatever, there's such an emphasis on the letting go, the releasing. Great, great. But then what then what are we going to tell? This are the same stories that are narrating what got us there going to keep repeating after we've created some semblance of space. So understanding the stories, reframing the language, getting clear on what we want, who we want to be with, the type of person that I need to be in order to attract that soulmate for them to recognize me. Because if I release my aspects of my inner critic and like whatever it is in a, in a, in a ceremony so that I can create the space for a relationship. But I've never actually gotten clear on what that relationship going to feel like. It'll look like what memories are we going to create together? How will I know? And then I'm going to keep going back and back and back and the same shit is going to keep showing up. So I guess the biggest thing in terms of aging gracefully and this could, this is a, I don't know if it's a principle, but it can be applied to anything. Body, mind, spirit, anything. Get clear on what needs to be released or create space for. Then create the time, the energy and the patience to create the space and then get clear on what we want to refill the tank with or what we want to rewire with and re pattern with. Wow.

Full body chill. I just went through this training your mind for rewire.

Well, okay.

Rewire your mind for wealth. It just happened to be here on the table on the perota. And. And it's from Mike Diller to my buddy Scott and. And their partners, Joni and Michelle. Anyways, when you said that get clear on what you want to refill the tank with. What do I want to create? How can I actually literally rewire myself? That's how I know I'm on the right path when I get little breadcrumbs from friends like you. You've dropped a lot of great breadcrumbs for all of us. So you guys share this podcast with somebody that you care about, because that's the greatest gift you could ever do, actually, is to share wisdom. I've been in this lifelong search for both wellness and wisdom, which is why now when I say the show, I'm like, fuck, yes. I love what I do now. The force wasn't cutting it anymore. Like the forcefulness of life. What wisdom can you share with us about what wellness actually is? How do you define wellness? How do you live your life? Well?

Well, I think what comes up in terms of wellness for me is. And this is also how I know when I'm not living well as well, if I'm not acting, is the felt sense, the courage, the willingness, the acceptance, whatever you want to say to realize that life is a process. Wisdom for me is that we are constantly evolving. That the only thing truly constant is the fact that we are evolving. We are a verb, right? Anytime in my life, and I don't know, I can't think of a time that it hasn't been true. Anytime that I've gotten so fixed on an outcome or the way that I've wanted things to be or been so fixed in a mindset, more times than not, that's when I've got taught a painful teacher. But the more that I've been compassionate in understanding and realizing, man, I'm just figuring this shit out as I go. And probably the people that I'm closest to and that derive the most wisdom from and the most connection mirror back to me the same thing in their own life and are just like, man. And the guys at the retreat, we're all figuring this shit out ourselves. And so the biggest thing from a wellness perspective and wisdom is that we are a process. And that's okay. So amen. Aho. Whatever we want to say to life and ourselves being this constant process.

That's beautiful, man. And as we say goodbye, there was something I saw and I'm going to mess it up a little bit, but it's perfect. About the Path podcast and you had said if I could get a prepackaged, put together, 100% template on how to be totally successful in physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial, or I could have a custom made life where I get scraped and I make mistakes and I figure shit out, I would go custom made every time. And I thought, fuck yes, custom made is the way to go because then it's authentically ours. And I really feel that from you as we've matured, as we've grown, now you're soon to be a father. So it's been a blessing to have you on wellness and wisdom and share with people about the podcast, which we'll link in the show. Notes that I was just on and that I love. But. But congratulations on the pod becoming a father and just being a badass human man. Being humble enough to look at the parts of yourself that need growth and to share that authentically with people that need it as well.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. That appreciate you.

Yes, yes. So where do they find you?

So this has been so much fun, man. The Path podcast, Apple and Spotify, and then just my name on Instagram, Mike Salemi. If anyone wants to go to my website to learn about the retreats or somatic release, breathwork, whatever it is, just go to Mike Salemi not.com and would love to connect.

All right. Mike Salemi IO so until Mike and I see you again, we're both wishing you a deep breath, a nice path ahead, and love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.

Hey, thanks for watching this video. If you love this video video hit subscribe. That way you'll be automatically notified when new videos come out, new episodes. And also share this video with a friend. If you loved it, they're going to love it too. Check out some of the videos on this screen that are perfectly curated based on the video you just saw. Make sure you follow me and I'll see you in the next video.