Johnny Elsasser | The Art of Masculinity: How To Be A Wildman In Our Modern World | Wellness Force

When we start to look into masculinity, even in its essence, it's subjective. It's subjective to us. So when we talk about men being masculine and embodying masculinity, well, what does that really mean? I think that means, in my personal opinion, to find what it is that resonates with you in your heart and in your soul, and be that man every day and be that man in every moment.

Johnny, welcome to Wellness Force.

Thank you, brother. I am stoked to be here. Josh, this is amazing.

We just got done with the coolest event. I have never had so much fun with men. Like, tell people, for those that don't know the Wild man experience, like, just give them. Don't give them all of it, but give them a little bit of what we did together. Just if somebody's interested in men's work and just spark their interest in this.

Yeah, brother. Thank you, by the way, and thank you for having me on here. I'm obviously just a huge supporter of you. I love Wellness Force, and this is just an honor to be on the show with you. So I want to say that for sure, but the Wildman experience was something that I crafted because I wanted to give men. I wanted to start to bring men together, especially those guys that are fall more towards that alpha line of. Of masculinity. I wanted to give them a manly experience, which I used to be former Special Operations U.S. army Ranger. I used to do protection for the U.S. ambassador to Iraq. So I have a vast experience with a lot of different things, but mainly weapons and tactics. So I wanted to give guys this feeling of a manly environment. But I wanted to know to also treat them right, because I think and you and I can dive into this. But guys don't like to take care of themselves really well and give themselves really nice things, like treating themselves to a VIP dinner or bougie. You know, they usually do it for their women in their lives, but not for themselves, you know, and so I wanted to give them a VIP experience where all they had to do was be present. And then I also wanted to incorporate a lot of the stuff I'm doing now, which is men's development work and helping guys really find themselves so they can get back to life and really become better fathers and husbands and really just own who they are and connect with that authenticity that sometimes has eluded us throughout life. So that was really what the Wild man was about. And so we go out and we.

Shoot out of a helicopter, which was so much fun. Oh, my God. I'VE never done that in my life.

We shoot out of moving vehicles, we intermingle some other tactics, and then we, you know, we put you guys behind the long guns, which is a lot of fun. I mean, you shot out to 800. You had.

That was my favorite. It was a meditation, actually. You.

It was. I think that was made for you, to be honest.

I loved it. I loved it because it was really about checking in with yourself and. And being in your body, like, fully inhabiting your body. And I was thinking about Chris Kyle, and I was thinking about. I had a lot of revelations when I was out there that I was waiting to share with you on the show. And I have so many great things to ask you as well that I was, like, holding onto. So here's the jumping off point. Like, my grandfather, he was a brigadier general in the Marine Corps, and he was the first Italian American to be a brigadier general. Joseph Mauro Padolino. And they had a huge parade for him in Passaic, New Jersey. They gave him the key to the city. Like, it was really special. And I felt a deep connection with him when I was out there because he gave a lot for us, you know, like, that generation and the sacrifices they made. Like, it brings up emotion in me because I think it's so easy to forget, like, how challenging. Men have really suffered. Women as well. But right now, we're just talking about my grandfather. Men have suffered in this world for freedom, for protection, and with your background and all the men that were there, it was like I felt a taste of it. I felt a glimpse of potentially the brotherhood, the camaraderie that he went through because of the shared suffering. Like, I mentioned this at your event, and I'm curious how you feel about this. It's the shared suffering that we go through as men and also the shared play. But that shared adversity, like, it brings us together. There is something really special about that. And I can't always put the perfect words on it, but how do you feel about that, you know, with your time in the service and just all the work you do now with men, how do you see that play out? The adversity bringing men together and really creating brotherhood, but also the play, because it can be hard to balance both.

And I think I talk about this with men. And what I learned from the military is that there's two ways to really bring men. People in general come together this way, but men especially is through extreme traumatic adversity. Like you're talking about, right? Like, so the military is one of those things you're against, especially where we were, you're sometimes against really high, you know, insurmountable odds. And you guys got to come out or even just through the training. It's incredibly tough. But then I also found out that extreme excitement, that adrenaline, really, when you experience that with other men that no one else can really relate to in your life or around you, it's like, oh, man, we are so bonded. Like, we are so bonded. And. And I saw it in all you guys, because I. I can see the message feed still on Instagram. Everybody's going through, and you guys are all still cranking out on there. So it's. It's really cool. But I agree with you. I think both ends of the spectrum can really bond people and bond men especially. And it just depends on which one they go through and. And what that bond looks like. But both of them have, in my opinion, the same effect.

One of the coolest things, too, is I was like, not only were we not wearing masks, but there wasn't even a conversation. Like, that's. That's how freedom focused this event was. And look, I respect both sides of the coin. I think there's always value in other people's opinions and experiences. But when it comes to where we are right now, this is being recorded at the end of 20, you know, we don't really know, man, what's going to go down in 2022 as far as attacks on freedom or growth of freedom. We're kind of in limbo right now. So for us to be at that event and. And shoot ars out of a helicopter and moving vehicles and eat some of the most amazing food like this did not come easy. Like, putting on an event like this, all the prep, all the emotional prep, the timing, the logistics, the communication, like, it's a lot, man. What. What in your heart of hearts makes you really want to do this?

I mean, in all honesty, it's watching you guys during the times that we check in and we start to really break open. Some of the guys who. What's going on in their lives and how you guys connect and how you guys help one another. Like, I'm just the catalyst for it. But, you know, I said this multiple times at the event. I just truly believe that the men there are the event. You know, I'm just the catalyst, and I throw some fun stuff in there, and I make sure that we kind of have the right prompt to really get guys to open up. But once you guys start on that roller coaster, it just Goes, man. And it goes on its own. And it fills my heart and soul. But then I see it fill all the other men's heart and souls. Like, sometimes in. You're very aware of this, but a lot of times, someone will just be listening, and their most profound moment was listening to a guy speak.

Yeah.

Or listening to a conversation that was on the side. Like, sometimes that's their. And that, to me, is the magic of it. So that's what keeps me pushing to do this. Because, you know, it is a lot to put on something like this. And it's. It. It's a lot of prep work. I'm usually out here about a week early before the event, prepping, and then obviously afterwards, I'm drained, you know, from everything. But to me, that's totally worth it. And I enjoy being out there with you guys. Like, I enjoy having fun shooting guns. And I didn't get to shoot too much this time, like, at all. But because you guys. We were having you guys run through a lot. But it's fun for me to be out there and to do that stuff with you guys, because I get the energy from everybody, and I get included in that.

That's what I was wondering. Because you had everyone sharing the last day. And for those people that are join. I'm not gonna spill the secrets. But you had. You had some really great dyads and some really good opportunities for men to, like, connect with one another through shared vulnerability, which is a term that's thrown around a lot. Like, you ever have somebody that you're talking to? And I think the. I think whoever is watching us right now can relate. When someone says, I'm about to be vulnerable, Johnny, like, they almost signal it out. And that's when I know that it's, like, strategic vulnerability. It's when they're using quote, quote, vulnerability. But really it's because they want something with their vulnerability. And I think true vulnerability is when you don't want anything. The only thing you desire is to be heard. The only thing you desire is just to really be honest and truthful. And I really appreciate how that was in your event. But when I looked back on your story and I did the research about your parents splitting when you were 14, living in the tent, like, all the stuff you've gone through, that was not the case for you. You were not born into this world to an emotionally intelligent parenthood. So let's. Before we dig into the event and unpack some men's work, let's pull the E brake and go Back to that time, because you said you. I think you said in your about page, you were like, I. I started by not knowing. And my parents split up when I was 14. And you're like, I really didn't want to be around them at all.

Yeah.

And then through your own journey, you ended up joining the military. But looking at you now, being able to experience you now, and really, I told you when you got here today, like, knowing a deeper, more sensitive, more compassionate side of you than I did before, I'm amazed. You know, And I'd like to connect the dots of how you came from. Really pain, like, living in a tent is not easy. Having your parents split when you're 14 is not easy. What was that like? And walk us through some of that story so people get to know you well.

It's amazing. I received that. Dude, that hit my heart when you said that, because, you know, to hear that from you means a lot. I look up to you. You've been a guidepost for me since I started this journey. So to hear that from you is really powerful. And thank you. I appreciate that.

You're welcome.

For me, it really, like, honestly, I. I was fortunate in one of the key moments of my life of growing up is that I was very connected to my uncle. He's still alive. He's an amazing man. And my uncle and I. He's my godfather, he really had this. He had his own demons, but he had a healthy version of masculinity that I saw growing up that was like. He was very much that protector, but he was. He fought his whole life growing up. He grew up in the 50s in Buffalo, N.Y. was in a different high school every year. Was the protect of the family. Always treated women with the utmost respect. Grew up in a time of segregation, but always was inclusive with whatever color skin you were or whatever amount of money you had. Even to this day, none of that changed him. And when I was a kid, he taught me how to fight and, like, taught me that, you know, you don't go looking to fight people, you look to protect them. And you don't go actually searching to go hit somebody.

You.

You can hit them if they hit you first. So he taught me a lot of that stuff. But he was also goofy and he was humble, and he showed almost like, you ever see Cary Grant? Maybe a lot of people might not know him. Old actor.

I've seen him. Yeah.

He was like a World War II bomber, actually. And he became an amazing actor, but he was very, very similar. He could play this manly, masculine role and then still laugh at himself and be super goofy, and you're like, holy crap. And that's what I envisioned it. So starting my journey was. Was really. That helped me. I always had that in me. And so even though regardless of what was going on in the material world, what was in me was very different. And I was very good at being present and to my detriment and to. To, like, my favor. It was something that actually helped me in my life to really not struggle when things got hard, because I just literally lived in every day. It's also why I didn't go look for a college and ended up in a military recruiting center. But it allowed me to dig in to every day and just really experience the people in my life and what I was doing in those moments. And so for me, that presence helped me to get through the hard times of not even realizing I was living in a tent. I actually thought it was kind of fun.

So why'd you have to live in the tent?

Well, my aunt and uncle, who I was close with, my cousins, I grew up with them. They had three boys, and I grew up with them. We're all kind of similar in age, and we were super, super close. And my brother was living with my mom and my sister, and I didn't want to be around my mom or my dad. I just kicked in my dad's front door because he tried locking me out of the house.

Was it violent? Like, what was it like?

I mean, no, they just. It wasn't healthy in the sense that my dad was. You know, he would drink a lot and he'd be on pills at the same time. So it's like, tried to talk to him, and you couldn't even have a conversation. And then my mom was so wrapped up in the divorce and codependency that it wasn't. It wasn't a healthy. I just never really liked the environment, so it wasn't abusive in that sense, but it just didn't feel good to me at all. And I knew that, well, where I felt really good was with my aunt and uncle and my cousins. And so I would go over there, but they had three boys sitting in the house, and they didn't have a big house. So we just came up with an idea to pitch a tent out back. And, like, I lived in the tent out back.

For long. Did you live while.

Man, I. I want to say, if I remember correctly, it was somewhere between, like, six months to maybe almost like 10 or 11 months. Yeah, I lived back there for quite a while.

That is crazy. I'm like, that's a long time for a 14 year old kid. I mean, you're not a man at 14.

No, not by any means.

So there was something about your soul's journey. Like, have you reflected on this, you know, with all your time in the military and also how you serve men? Like, what was, what was both the most challenging part that really made you bleed? But then what was the gift? Mm.

You know, I haven't in depth reflected on it, but if I went to the most challenging part, it was that I almost felt like I didn't belong. So I only belong to myself. And so wherever I almost like a vagabond, like wherever I wanted to go or, you know, like the samurai, the ronin. Right. There's no master. That was me. And I felt that way. And that would probably be the saddest part because it even kind of stopped me from connecting with my friends at school while that, that was like my safe haven because I had a good community of friends. I wasn't like one on one close. We weren't checking in every day with each other. It was like, yeah, we'd be at school and then we'd go, you know, drink on the weekends, but they weren't calling me after school and we were on the phone for hours or like, hey, we have to go do this. Like that, you know, that person that you're always with, especially in like high school, like that friend you always have. Most people had one. Yeah, I never had one. And so that was maybe because the fact that I felt like I didn't belong because of where I was in my life of living outside in a tent, and I wasn't even in the house with my aunt and uncle and my cousins. Right. And that, that really, if I look back on that, that's kind of the mentality I had is I was alone.

Who went to your high school graduation?

Well, support you, man. That's a good question. I don't honestly think anybody did as far as like family members. If anything, if I remember, it would have been my mom. My mom was always there for like sporting events and stuff. She was really good about that. But it would have been her. But honestly, I don't even remember that anybody came.

Yeah, there's like a lot of resonance with, I think, men that had a hard upbringing. You said there was no physical violence, but you know, the capital T trauma we all know, which is like sexual abus, physical abuse, hardcore neglect, like, those are pretty clear. But the lowercase T trauma can stack up. And I think for a lot of. And, yes, we're focusing on men, but listen, a lot of these concepts apply to women. I'm just using the masculine example because we're two men, and that's where we are. But man stacking up the lowercase t traumas, one after the other, like, being in the tent, having your parents split at a very vulnerable time for you, that's hard. Like, how did you deal with that?

You know, my aunt always told me, like, you were so angry. And I was like, aunt Don, I don't remember being angry. I just remember being present. I remember being alone, but I remember being present. And that's when I was talking to you about just a few minutes ago, is that. I think that presence saved me from feeling angry. You know, I was actually more disappointed in my parents because they were acting like children in my eyes. And for some reason. And we can talk about this too, but on my plant journey, I feel like maybe there's some deeper, more powerful, ancestral things in my body that maybe my soul is older than who I am. And so I was really just more disappointed in them because I felt like they should have been able. Like, I never felt like codependency was something that I. I could see in myself, but I saw that in both of them a lot. Even though through the choices they made, that's what ended up breaking them up. But I saw so much codependency that it turned me off. And it was like this. I just felt so sorry and sad for them in that moment. So for me, everything hurt in the sense of spiritually it did, but it never broke me down. And I didn't really resonate. When my aunt said that I checked in inside, you know, to steal a term from you, I really did. And this was before I was even on this path. And I remember checking in and being like, was I angry?

Yeah.

Was it? Was I really angry? And I was like, yeah. I mean, I kicked my dad's door in, but that was just kind of like I was in the moment. And he tried locking me out of the house. But I was like, I don't. I never drove around. I didn't drive my car around, like, being angry with them. I didn't. I didn't resonate with just, like, sleep, going to bed at night, being angry with whoever's in the house. I wasn't yelling at anybody. I just was very present. And I. Like I said, I think, honestly, that's been one of my superpowers in My whole life was being present.

How do you be present without suppression? Because a lot of things occur. Some people say things happen to me. I am always in the mindset, as much as I possibly can be, depending on how conscious I am, that something happens for me instead of to me. But with your experience, I'm like, man, so many people are with us, and I know someone right now is like, how could he not have gone through some type of suppression? Or was that emotion moved? And did you get some of that maybe unconscious anger out in the military? Because that's a very challenging physical. Like, it's a very physical thing to be, especially in the Rangers and everything that you accomplish in your career, dive into that a little bit.

Well, it's really great because you're opening up my. My mind to so many different things, and I'm tapping back into it. And one of the things I think about right now as I check in with what I'm thinking about when you say these things, is that it wasn't suppression, but I didn't think about it until I talked to somebody. Like, I have a very. I have a very visual memory, so I can. I can pick things up in moments and times in my life. I can tap back into them. If you remind me of, like, a picture, right, Or. Or a scenario, all of a sudden, I picture it, and all the memories from that time come flooding back to me. But as I sit in a space with somebody, none of that is in my mind. None of it's in my mind till somebody asks me about it. People. People at the Wildman Experience were asking me about some of the military stuff, and I had to go tap back into it. It doesn't sit there in my mind. So I guess, like I said, it's.

It's.

It for me. It's more of, like, I can channel those memories, but if they're not being specifically targeted, they don't actually sit in. In my, like, prefrontal cortex, my cognitive. Cognitive state. They don't sit there, and I don't think about them. I just think about where I'm at or what I got to do in the future, More or less. Actually, that's probably my. My one thing that's going on these days, but more or less the future. When it comes to the past, I. I don't suppress it. It doesn't creep up on me. And all of a sudden, I'm, like, crying or grabbing a bottle and saying, oh, I can't deal with this. That honestly has never happened to me in my Life and I've been blown up, we've been in gunfights. You know, it's just a lot of different stuff from the military. But none of that's crossed my mind when I'm just sitting down alone.

Yeah, I feel like the nervous system that got wired for you and your soul contract very different than the typical man. Because I'll be straight up. When I first met you, I was like, this is a really like kind hearted, soft spoken guy. I didn't even know really about your military background or all the, all the really shit you've been through. And it's absolutely fascinating. I mean, I told you at the event, I'm like, I'm fascinated by this guy because there's, there's like a, there's a deep presence that you have. But also I can understand in your background how that presence had to be created from some pretty big contrast. Like seeing people you love die in a war, protecting others, getting shot at. A lot of men get shell shock. A lot of people get PTSD from that. You told me that you haven't ever experienced that. Like, what do you, what do you make up about your fab of you, your moral fiber, your epigenetics, whatever you want to say, like, what can you source with inside yourself that that allowed you to not get PTSD and not get the trauma from these really hard experiences?

I would have to say that part of, part of that is probably because my belief in what I was doing, especially when it comes to the military, superseded anything I actually did. And so a lot of people, when they see things and it impacts them, it's because of the fact that it's either unexpected or it's traumatic to the nervous system because they didn't ever think that that was a scenario they would encounter. But when I was in special Operations, we all, we used to joke about it. We knew we'd be like, hey bro, wipe my computer clean. You know, so my girlfriend doesn't see it.

Right.

Like, we just would make jokes like that. And part of that humor was to help kind of downplay the seriousness of what we were going to do. But on the same token, it also was, you know, so not sitting in that moment of fear and anarchy and stuff like that, it really helped us to kind of get past it. So for, for me, I just, I didn't, I didn't absorb a lot of that because I felt like when I was connected to those moments of trauma, my mission was much bigger. My mission was for this flag, for this country, for my Brothers next to me. Like, that's the way that we perceived it. And that may sound cliche or very, you know, know Jack Ryan, but it's. It's truly what I, at least I held in my heart. And so whatever I was called to do on that mission, I painted the enemy in that fashion. And for good or for worse, right, that, you know, obviously they have families, obviously they had a mission as well. But for good or for worse, I was the one that made out, made it out of there alive. And my mission to me was what kept me from saying, oh my gosh, let me re. Look at this. Like, this was really bad what you did, Johnny. Like, this is terrible. Like, you really need to regret that and really hold that. And I never held that emotion. I was like, no, my mission was bigger than that. And regardless what it was calling me to do that time, as long as my brothers were safe and, you know, I wear this, we lost a couple brothers over there. And so they knew the risk as well. And we all knew that they knew the risk. And so we dealt with that pain. But then we can't let our lives be held back by that because they. You know what I think about, especially when it comes to losing these men overseas that we looked at as like superheroes. These two dudes were so badass, man. They were, they.

Do you mind saying their names?

Oh, yeah. Ricardo Barraza and Dale Brem. And they both were just like super badass. Went in a room and just got. They were waiting for him. They got shot at clean on the side. This was before we had any side protective. I remember I was telling you about the body armor before we had those side plates. They actually got killed. Killed. And Brem Barras got killed, I think right when he went in the room. Brem got shot and then he actually killed the guy in the room that was hiding behind some rugs and stuff like that. But then Brem died afterwards. But we all knew the risk. Like, we all took that on every night. Like when. When you're just running and gunning for hours on end chasing down terrorists, we all knew that was what we were getting into. And I think that was the mindset of being in Special Operations. When I knew I was there, even though I was there at 18 years old, I knew what I was going to do. There was nothing in my mind that said, oh, that might not happen. No. I was like, every worst case scenario is probably going to show up and I need to be able to find something. So before, again, this is why Sometimes when actually when I'm hashing this out with you right now, it like, really hits me that, like, maybe there is an older soul in me because I never saw it as. As, you know, having that hold that emotion in there. I just always saw it as, like, I know what to expect. We've game planned the worst case scenario, which is death. And then I'm just like, really resonating with my mission right now, which was to keep. Keep myself safe, as safe as possible, protect all these men that are next to me, and fight for this flag because I really believe in what this country stands for.

Yeah. And gosh, so much there. So I just, you know, thank you for all you've done.

Thank you, brother.

Yeah. And thank you for all that you've sacrificed. I mean it. Like I said before, it's so easy to forget how challenging that war can be on the psyche, on the hearts, on families. Like, it's. I'm gonna butcher this a little bit, but I've heard that war is a continuation of politics by other means. So you have politics that don't work out. We have politicians that are extremely crooked, which every single decade get more and more and more crooked and actually disassociate from the people that voted them into office. And that's the part where I've been feeling for the past three years, maybe even. Maybe even five years, and especially since the plandemic, especially since this has rolled out, that we're approaching something that we all need to be prepared for. Not in fear about, not being victims about, but like, I've purchased firearms. We did firearms training at your program, which was incredible. It was like perfect timing. I literally bought the guns and then we went right to the wildlands.

It was good timing.

Yeah, it was awesome. But the reason I'm saying this is because people need a re education of what freedom is, really is, and how much freedom costs. Like, I think about my grandparents coming over and their parents ended up at Ellis island and they were given names like the Little boy and the Godfather, like it's real. And that's only three generations back.

Yeah.

And then if you trace time even further back, the tragedies and the crazy stuff that our ancestors had to go through, it would actually be the biggest punch in the stomach and slap in the face and really spitting on our ancestors if we weren't prepared to defend our freedoms because they're so easily taken away. Look at all these foreign countries that are right now 20 degrees below any type of freedom that we have. And we don't even take the freedoms that we have and really appreciate them.

Yeah. And you say that and it's like, I just challenge anybody. Go sit in a communist country. Go sit and talk with the people in a socialist country. I've done this before, and it's devastating to hear like, the pain in their, in their voices and to see the cities and how they're even built. You're like, man, this is really like, okay, okay, why was this built this way? Because it's not pretty, but this is a gorgeous location. And then they're like, oh, you want me to tell you why? This is why? And you're like, holy crap. When you can't even smoke a cigarette and wear jeans in the city, you got to go sneak out to the mountains to do that with your friends. Go try talking to those people and tell them how much they love it because it's not fun. But that's the, you know, it's hard to see that in, in our forefathers wrote the Constitution the way they did because they saw this so easily being taken from us. And what. And not to continue on this path. But I just want to say one.

More thing, is that continue.

When people, when you look at what our forefathers even did and why they did it, George Washington had no ambition to be a president. He had no ambition for politics. And we have people who are raising children to be politicians. And I'm like, no, it's a service to the country like the military is. And you should be trying to do everything you can if you're in that position. And when you get to that position to do the best thing possible for the American way of life, because it's been such a light in this world for so long that as soon as it starts to deteriorate and we've seen this, if you go back and look at news columns and stuff, when the United States starts to have infighting in complete deterioration of our own systems, more havoc happens outside our country. Because everybody around the world. You know, if you want to believe this or not, regardless of what side of the fence you are on, I've spent a lot of time in. In very foreign countries from Africa to Asia to Europe to South America. I spent a lot of time in different places and where we go as a country, everybody follows why you think that is. I think it's because we've. We've created ourselves through, in my opinion, through the economic infrastructure that we've created and through the ability to prop up economies through tourism and stuff like that. I think that we've actually helped these nations rise out of some of the, you know, really destitute states that they were in. And so when that happens, if we pull that type of plug, for instance, if all of a sudden the Department of State deems your country a really bad place and they put a. A higher threat level on you, well, you're not going to get tourism from the United States. And so no one's going to go there. And now your economy is going to crumble if we propped it up that way, which a lot of these countries we have. And so when you look at that, and also through the economic stage, you know, how much money we funnel out to countries for goods.

Right.

That we're. We're now bringing in through this globalization that we've created. We hold countries up, and as soon as we pull that, the countries know, okay, well, you know, now we're going to go back to something that's complete anarchy. And so I think, because the fact that we've put ourselves in that position through years and years and years of economic improvement within our own country, we've now created this, that wherever we go, everybody else goes. If we say jump, a lot of these countries are gonna be like, I gotta jump too. Because they're, you know, us is jumping. Right. And so you're watching it even happen right now with the pandemic. You're watching how people are dealing with COVID how they're dealing with masks, how they're dealing with all this stuff. If the US Turned around tomorrow and said, no more mass, I promise you, you would see so many headlines from every other country around the world removing mass. I promise you wouldn't even be a question. But, you know, we. It takes something like that for people to realize, oh, wow, they really do follow us.

Yeah. And we're gonna link because we could go on a total tangent. Yes, I know, but I. But I love your tangent. So right below this video, there's links for three episodes that go deep into what Johnny's talking about and, like, it's really valid. So I implore everybody, like, study, like, pay attention, because we're spending our attention, our currency, on things that are actually hurting us. We're paying attention to things that don't matter. And the things that do matter are kind of being neglected and really abused in the background, so. Well, that's real. That's happening every moment of every day on every cell phone in America.

Absolutely. And it's. And it's even furthering that just for a second. Here it's like watching the way that they're trying to keep us separate. And you've talked about this numerous times, but keeping us separate and not interacting with another one another, even from an energetic level. Right, like the six foot of difference.

Yes.

We're not even connecting as human beings anymore in these energetic fields that we know are actual science. It's. It's not fake, it's not woo. But they're not even. They're trying to disassociate us from each other so they can continue to keep separation. Have you. Tom o' Neill has that book Chaos that I just listened to, and you look at what they did back in the 70s and the 60s and the 50s with these secret programs from the FBI and the CIA, and you're like, holy crap. And it's real stuff. There's papers, there's mockingbirds on.

This mockingbird's real. A lot of these things are real.

Cointelpro. Chaos from the CIA, cointelpro from the FBI. It's nothing.

So all of this takes us down a rabbit hole.

Sorry.

No, but to be honest, like, the rabbit hole has gems in it and has knowledge and has wisdom in it. It's just that because we're in this age of over information where anything can be accessed anytime from a tablet or a phone, there also can be, and I hate even using this term, misinformation. There is misinformation out there. But the difference between a conspiracy theorist and somebody who doesn't think they are is about six months. I heard that the other day. I'm like, it's about six months for you to realize the things that conspiracy theorists were freaking out about, they're at your doorstep six months later. So to change gears, though, to change gears, like, a lot of what we're talking about is completion energy. It's what's going on. And the masculine energy is completion energy. Like feminine. In my opinion, Kali is real. Like, the feminine rage is real, but so is the feminine nurturing. And we all have these energies inside of ourselves. But when I think about, like, the true essence of masculinity, and I guess you say, you know, you're the host of a show. It's called the Art of Masculinity, which I love. I love that because it really is. And art is something you never, ever fully master. It's something that you always practice, and I think that's really cool because with everything we've talked about up to this point, there is so much greater of a practice needed in this world. To be truly masculine, to be a really embodied masculine man. So how would you even define that? To be an embodied masculine man, knowing that there's the feminine inside of us and there's the masculine inside of us, and. And we get to understand all of those things on a continuous basis. Like, how would you define embodied masculinity? What does that mean to you?

Well, I mean, you're a big fan of etymology, and we had these conversations.

This weekend, so we're talking about cisgender. That's right.

But when we dive into etymology, like, what is masculinity? Right. And the. We all butcher this because I won't say it verbatim, but essentially, masculinity, the definition of it is saying that presenting. It's like presenting masculine features. How arbitrary is that?

Interesting.

So then you're like, okay, so you're using the root of the word in the definition. So I know you don't know what you're talking. What, like, it really is. You haven't defined it.

Yeah.

So then you go to masculine, and masculine says it's something along the lines of. Of what is considered to be manly traits within society or something like that. Okay. So it's something along those lines. So we look at the etymology here, and you're like, huh, that's pretty subjective. Because if I was sitting in Florida as a man, and if I was sitting in New York City as a man, there's going to be two very different perspectives.

One, you need to wrestle alligators, right? See how smart of a man you are, Right.

Or for Louisiana, I got to go noodling. Right?

Like.

But you look at this and you're like, huh? Even regionally, this is different. Now take that United States man, say, from New York or Florida or from wherever you're from, just imagine you getting plucked out of the United States and dropped in, let's say, Italy. You are not going to align with their version of masculinity. I promise you. It's very different. And so when we start to look into masculinity, even in its essence, it's subjective. It's subjective to us. So when we talk about men being masculine and embodying masculinity, well, what does that really mean? I think that means, in my personal opinion, to find what it is that resonates with you in your heart and in your soul, and be that man every day and be that man in every moment and find the honesty in it. Because when you do, when you find that honesty in any conversation and who you are, guess what you relieve yourself from, you relieve yourself from grief, you relieve yourself from regret, from stress, from questioning. You just say, hey, no, I showed up exactly how I wanted to as a man, because that felt good to me and I resonated with that. Yeah, but without using the, the trending word of authenticity. That's really what it follows. But it's giving an explanation of what authenticity looks like. Because authenticity, in my eyes, is what resonates with your heart and your soul, whatever that means. It doesn't necessarily say that there's a prescription for it because you can't find one. So if there's no prescription for it, there are certain features around that can say, we can say are collectively universal with men to some extent, but it's not always true because I can find numerous. I can find numerous cultures that don't value those things.

Yeah, before we get into those, because I want to ask you what those are before that. What are some of the things you see right now and the things that you maybe seen the past few years that are deemed masculinity or that are deemed to be masculine but really aren't? In other words, like what, what are some of the things that are myths about being masculine, about being an embodied masculine person that you see being toted around?

That's a really good question because there, I think there is, there's. There. There's an ability to connect with your femininity and then there's an ability to, to over emphasize and ex and exaggerate femininity for the sake of maybe attention or for the sake of.

I know, exactly. You're the guy on the top of the hill in Encinitas, like with a big crystal hanging from his neck and like a flowing cape. And like, you know, I really want to connect with the feminine, but you can tell there's like a disingenuousness to it. It doesn't feel real.

Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's what we're seeing a lot of today. While men are like, men are being told that we're allowed to have vulnerability, which we are. And while we're allowed to connect with emotions, which we are, there's this over exaggeration of femininity where it becomes really like, is that authentic? Because it seems very forced. And I think a lot of people are forcing an over emphasis emphasization. Am I making up words now? No, emphasizing.

That's a nice one. Say that three times fast.

But really just emphasizing this extension of what society wants to see because they want to pander to the PC kind of culture. And instead of embracing their own truth, authenticity, which says maybe a little bit of that is who I am, they're trying to go way overboard, so they're seen as something different and then potentially becoming martyrs to the masculine community. Right. And so I. That's one of the things that I see. Another thing I see on the flip side of things is that, you know, guys are carrying around this level of anger and judgment, and they're taught that that's what men are really supposed to be like. If. If you're the. If you're the mechanic and you're out grinding every day, it's okay to come home and have a beer and not talk to your family and to, you know, be angry when one of them wants something from you. And then to show that anger in a. In any way, shape or form that you feel is appropriate, like, no, that's another version of masculinity that's told that's okay, and being presented in some of the people out there. And. And there's people even in this field that kind of are holding to some of those values that were. Were given to us as men at young ages, like that anger and like that judgment and like that, really resentment for other men who don't meet your standard. All of that was given to them. And then we have men today still promoting that as masculinity. It's like, well, how's that serving you? The community, or the betterment of the next generation of men, Men, if you're stifling still all of these things that are coming up with you, and your only exposure to it is through anger and through toxicity in your actions and words. You and I very much agree on toxic masculinity, and that should not be a term out there, but in. In all reality, in their actions, they're obviously not good. So when somebody's doing that and they're taught that that's okay, and they're just continuing to exacerbate that, that's not correct masculinity in my eyes either, because there is that balance of femininity that you're just completely neglecting. So that embodiment is finding that, tapping into both and balancing them out so that you're, you know, you're aligned with who you are. And you're also teaching that next generation what it looks like to really embrace both sides of the fence and say, like, hey, an embodied man is somebody who can sit here and be with himself and be with his demons. And not project and be a victim to the world and then show that in anger.

But we're taught. We're taught these things.

Absolutely.

Who taught you? Or maybe who didn't teach you anything? What left a void makes a big impact as an adult. And then you have to have the courage. This is the key. You have to have the courage to explore either what you didn't get or what you got that really isn't authentic to you as a man. And that can be like a full stop, fucking holy shit moment where everything, possibly that men have built their lives on crumbles to the ground. I'm not a huge fan of his work. I don't believe everything he says. But some of the things that Garrett White has talked about have been really instrumental because he was on a live once. I haven't thought about this in a year. This is so cool. And he was crying because he went to his old house to move out of his old house, and there was a pot, and I guess there was a fire on the deck, and they cleaned everything out, and they hadn't been there in months. And there was this little plant, this little green plant that was growing up, and he started crying, and he was like, wow. You know, as men, like, we have to be willing to let everything burn to the ground. Lose your job, lose your wife, lose your everything, lose your identity. Because sometimes, like, the metaphor of the Phoenix rising through the ashes is really the greatest moment in a man's life. You know, it definitely was for me in 2015 when I started this podcast. If you'd have told me that I'd be sitting here talking to you and sharing real connection and being able to do what we do, I would have been like, I don't even think that's possible. You know, but it was possible because I was on a golf course, crying, praying to God, like, willing to die for what I believed in. And so when I. When I look at you and when I experience you, and even before we get into the variables of what it means to be a masculine man, man, when you came back from the military, you had to have reflected on, how am I showing up to my wife? Because I believe that was your first wife life.

That was after I did protection. So you did protection. Yep.

So when you got home, there was that burning down for you. You had to burn some things down so you could start over and meet Taylor, who's a wonderful soul.

Yeah.

But you had to let some burn to the ground.

Yeah.

So tell us. Take us to that moment so we can understand you.

That was, you know, that was just, you know, a few years ago. So it's not even that far removed from like, vice versa. If you would have told me, I'd be sitting here across from you, you talking about all of this thing, all these things about masculinity and really connecting with who we are and looking internally, I would have been like, yeah, get the out of here. Like, no way. I came home with so much judgment and anger towards other men as looking at them as weak. I used to think this is my biggest hang up for even getting into the self development field was because my mindset was if you were using self development, you were weak minded, you couldn't handle life yourself, Right? What a joke, right? And I was running from my own insecurities. That's why that was my protection. That was the justification my brain made. And it said, oh, you don't need to do those things and everybody's doing them. It's weak. Well, it's because my brain was like, dude, you got a lot of things you're protecting right now that you're holding on to that I don't really want to expose to you right now. So. So I was like, okay, that was my mindset. But when I got to that moment, it actually, my moment of, of turning that mindset was when Taylor and I were friends. But when I got back from the military and I just held so much resentment and anger and judgment towards men because if they didn't meet my standard, I was like, get, get out of here, dude.

And what was your standard at that time?

It was just such a high standard of owning, of owning this uber alpha masculine, of controlling every situation, of being the baddest dude in the room, of making sure that, you know, everybody was protected. And if some guy was walking around that was bigger than you, you could tell yourself, well, you know, I could take his kneecaps out, put his knee right on my face, and we're good to go. Like, it, like you always made these justifications of why, like you saw somebody if they, if they, if they challenged you on something you wanted to be, you had to make an excuse of why you were better. That was kind of that standard that I was at. And I was like, dude, I was an army Ranger. Come on, dude, I was a sergeant and army Rangers, I was kicking indoors, you know, pinning people to walls, holding guns, blowing stuff up. Then I was doing protection for the US Ambassador. Like, come on, dude, I can handle myself in a situation. And so when I got back my Standard was, was, well, if I saw you and you were kind of looked, you know, quote unquote, metro, I was like, that dude can't grab a gun and do anything. Or that guy doesn't know what it's like to blow something up. So even if he was like, better looking than me, I'd be. And that was what was setting me off. I'd be like, oh, he's not to my standard. So then I'd have anger towards him and resentment and I'd create that. I generate these stories, epigenetics, in a bad way. Right. I was, I was creating this story for myself, for my genes, to. To kick out certain reactions for my own situation. And then I was exposing myself to that chemical release in my body of that anger and resentment and stress and anxiety and all those things, because that's all really what it paired up to. So when I did that, that was my level of standard was just like, you had to be able to take care of yourself physically and mentally, which I'd been through a lot of hard things mentally. I'd sat with myself, but I never really sat with myself. And we can dive into that.

Yeah.

But I'd been with myself in the middle of the woods, nobody there for you, A freaking map in my hand and grid coordinates. And I had to find this little pole that's no bigger than that light right there, there in the middle of the freaking trees in Georgia. And I had to find like 10 of them. Right. And I've done that repeatedly. So you had to be able to take care of yourself. You had to be able to. To sit with yourself. You had to be able to protect other people. You had to be able to. To be in a dark alley and not be scared. You couldn't be scared of anything. You had to be able to adjust and take it on. So when any. When any guy would. Would even sit across from me and they would be like, oh, yeah, like, man, that terrifies me. You jumped out of airplanes. I'd be like, dude, this guy is such a. Like, we can't be friends. And it's like, how toxic is that to me?

How did you let go of that thinking? Because I would assume that part of that might actually be healthy in a survival situation, but in a non survival situation, you know, if you're going to Starbucks and you're like reintegrating back into civilian life and you're here with the rest of us.

Yep.

Not exactly easy. So. So you actually wrote on your website too, that when you got back this is when you're with your. Your first wife.

Yeah.

That. That was like part of the burning down. That was part of the coming to grips with how you were showing up.

Yeah.

So take us there. Because I think a lot of people deal with this that go through stressful or maybe like life threatening situations. They come back home. I remember an American Sniper. Like, that was what Chris Kyle struggled with. He like, couldn't reintegrate back into society.

Yeah.

How did you reintegrate? And what was the price that was.

Happening paid the price was, was my marriage. And it was. I, I was drinking way too much. I wasn't an alcoholic by any means, but I would, you know, everything was living for the weekend when Friday hit. It was bourbon and I was smoking pork butt shoulder on my back deck and calling my brother half drunk and like hanging out.

Right.

No connection with my wife at the time. And then it was just, it was actions that weren't serving me to ever be better. It was watching. Sitting down and watching football games. I'm a huge sports fan and. But I've put all of that away because I look at it now as like, dude, what could I be doing that could really be helping either who I am or my marriage or my life.

I know, dude.

And. And I'm like, that's exactly what I feel. Three hours to watch a game. I'm like, dude, there's so many things I could have done that would have been more productive for me. And it's like, for what? To sit there and say I watched. I watched the Buffalo Bills win a game? It's like, no, come on. Like, really? That, that. Anyways, I, I got down that, you know, path of just doing a lot of actions that were setting me up for a lot of bad routines that were then setting me up for a lot of bad mindsets.

Yeah.

And so when I would, I would do that. It just created, you know, a bad marriage. We weren't connected. Then she drifted apart. So then her, her own mindset wasn't in a positive place for our marriage. We were. I. I'd be downstairs in the basement watching football, and she'd be up in the, in the living room. We're young couples, couple. And she'd be up in the kitchen watching, you know, Downtown Abbey or Downton Abbey. How do you say that down. She'd be watching that and I'd be downstairs and then she'd like, bring me some food. I was like, dude, this is so bad. And then finally there was the year before we separated. I had a conversation with her. I was like, every time we talk, it's so much fire and hate and anger. I was like, we're not connected. We're not having sex, like, once every six months. Seriously, I'm not even joking. Like, in six months, we didn't have sex. And you're just like, this is miserable. But you also have to own your position in that. And so when my transition happened and I finally came home permanently from working overseas, I had all of that mindset really playing into this culmination of what was a divorce. And then I sat down and I said, wow, great job, Johnny. You were a badass overseas. You did a lot of stuff, and you still can't protect yourself from not being what a man's supposed to be, which is somebody who can hold his marriage together. And I was like, oh, this isn't good. And I really started to have my own downward spiral psychologically. And who I was as a man, what did I represent anymore? I wasn't fighting for a flag. I didn't know who I was anymore. I had no standard. That was another thing. I was like, dude, where's your standard? You're judging all these dudes. Where the. Is your standard?

Yeah.

For yourself.

This is the place it feels like, or at least I can. I can sense it, that you started to build yourself back up, like, brick by brick. So was there, like, a rock bottom moment before you gathered the first brick? Rick.

The rock bottom moment for me was even after the marriage. I was friends with Taylor at the time, and so. No, actually the rock bottom moment was. Was really the divorce. I. I felt terrible because that was like, when I check in with this, my heart hurts when I think about it, because she was deeply a good person inside, and I loved, love, loved her family. But I wasn't going to sacrifice my life, life and my happiness because I loved her family. And I wasn't going to be a martyr just because she was a good person. She is a good person. We weren't good together. We weren't the right fit together. When I. When I finally hit that moment and I was still drinking a lot, so that was still too. I was like, I hate who I am when I drink. I, like, literally hated who I was when I would drink because it was all or nothing for me. It was either hammered or nothing.

Yeah.

And so I was like, I hate it. I said stupid shit. I'd act stupid ways, like, I was never violent, but when I reflected on the night before, I'd be like, dude, that is not somebody I respect. So that was my rock bottom. I was having those moments way too often. And then we ended in a divorce. And my first brick that I picked up was I had to give myself purpose again and passion. And it was a short term purpose. It wasn't my life's purpose, but it was bodybuilding. And I've always been somebody who's been into fitness. And when I gave myself a goal of doing a show, and I'm very good at, when I give myself a goal, I hit it. I was relentless about making sure I showed up the best on stage that I could for that. So I took 12 weeks and I prepped for a show. And Taylor came into my life around that time. And we were, we had already been friends at the gym, but she came in as more of a deeper friend at that time. And she, she tossed me a book from Dr. Wayne Dyer. And I was like, I'm not reading this. I already told you how I feel about, you know, self development. This is, this isn't happening.

The old you would have made fun of the you now.

Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely.

He'd be this dude with the beard and the long hair. For real. He's wearing beads, he's into books, he's talking about emotions. Like, isn't that crazy? We all go through this. So you're literally going on the stage and you start to cultivate this love, friendship with her. What was it?

No, she was just, she was there as a friend. It was deep support and she wanted nothing more for me than to do just get better.

Right.

And, and to, and to find who I could be in this world outside of the military. Because at this time I was still very much struggling with, like, who was I showing up as every day as a man? Like, again, what were my standards as a man? And I had, I had some in the sense of like old foundational pieces that my uncle had instilled in me from that two to eight years old. When you're in Theta and you're having that programming run for your masculinity, I was there and I had some of those, but it wasn't truly me. It wasn't a choice by me to define what those were. And I was really finding it hard to do that. So when, when, when we became good friends, she started to talk to me about self development. She'd been in that space and actually you were one of the people she named. And first off, she gave me the book and I put that down for months. I was like, I'm not reading this and then she tosses me, hey, I think you really, like, dig. And I think this was after you may have done Mark Devine stuff, because she. I think she.

This is like, 2016, 2017.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she saw, like, that stuff on you, and she. She had been listening to you for a while, and she's like, hey, I think he'd really, like, mesh with this guy Josh Trent. I think I see you being somebody who could speak like him to people and really help. And I was like, well, that. I'm not having a guy tell me, and I'm not listening to podcast.

And you're like, he's got a metro haircut.

I know. I was like, this dude, what is he doing?

Yeah.

Oh, man.

So.

So I was like, okay, okay. Well, then we were in the kitchen one day, and. And she put. She was hanging out at my place. We were just hanging out, and she. She would bring her dog over. Our dogs would play, and she. She was like, put on a podcast, and she put on a couple podcasts. One was you, one was Lewis Howes. And. And all of a sudden I started to hear some pieces, and I was like, oh, that's good. All right, well, what. What do I do with this now? And then she would leave. And then all of a sudden, I found myself listening to. To more podcasts. And then I found myself picking up excuses be gone. And then excuses be gone became just like. For a lack of better term, it was a metaphorical punch in my nuts because it called me out for all my insecurities, every excuse I'd been making about why I didn't want to dive into who I truly was. Everything just came out of me. Because he calls it out the way Dr. Wayne Dyer writes, even though he was a high intellect, he didn't write that way. He wrote, like, slapping you in the face. And that's what happened to me. So then when I started to dive into that, it started to be like, oh, now I can really try to find who I am. I'm starting to pick up tools. I'm starting to really understand what people are talking about. When it's self development, it is self development because you're looking into self. You're not playing the victim. You're not saying the external situation is dictating who I am anymore. And that was my first brick was the bodybuilding. And my second brick became actually picking up the books and listening to the podcast of people I began to really respect.

Wow. I just got a full chill moment because since day one, it's always been the mission with Wellness Force. How do we discover physical, which is what you started, and then emotional, which is the second brick intelligence, so we can live our life well, because the body's a subconscious mind, and you don't have to read a lot of books to know that. I think whatever we're feeling shows up on the body, whether it's extra weight or disease or whatever. God, there's so much to unpack there, dude. And I think a good place would be when you really started to feel the momentum. Like, you're with Taylor now you're building the podcast. What was that like to learn about yourself? And what were some of the things that, when you look back, you go, wow, I held on to this belief, or I held on to this way of being for a really long time. And when I let it go, it was like a big, huge, fresh, deep breath of air. Oh, what were those things?

Well, one of them was, so. It's so easy because it's that. That, you know, coming from that elite background, that Alpha background, I was like, you have to know everything. You have to be capable to do everything. And that was a standard I held myself to. So when I started down this path and started building it, and I was like, bro, I am lost. I am freaking struggling to figure out what I'm putting out there to help men. I'm struggling to figure out how to get simple stuff set up, like, how to freaking do the podcast and how to get Instagram started and stuff like that.

It can be hard.

It can be. But I was like, bro, you. You've been through so many hard things, and this mental stuff is taxing you. You have three degrees. It's not like you. You don't know how to be educated and, like, do the work. Like, I'm like, what the hell is going on? And I felt, like, so much anxiety and stress and struggle in me, and I would refuse to ask for help. And because I was. I expected myself to know everything. And when I finally pushed that away and said, no, brother, like, this is like, you need help from other men. You need help from guys who are doing this. It was very powerful when I put that down, that pack down, because all of a sudden I felt like, oh, little Johnny's not alone anymore. Remember, back to the tent. Little Johnny's not alone anymore. He's. He's got people in this world that really believe in him and believe in his mission and believe in his story, and you were one of them. Chris Harder was one of them. Numerous People that I've picked up along the way have been really, really big supporters of it, of my stuff. And if I text them, they're right on back to me. And it's like, hey, how do I do this? Let's hop on a call, I'll walk you through it. And I was like, whoa. People actually just want to help me and they don't want something from me. This is insane. And then I can ask for help and people aren't judging me as like, you know, I made that story up. I was emasculated if I asked for help, if I asked Josh for help. All of a sudden, a sudden Josh is more of a man than me because he knows something more, right? This is the story I wrote and it was emasculating. And so when I finally lifted that off, I was like, oh, this feels great. I don't have to know this stuff and I don't need to go down rabbit holes all the time that end in nothing that actually shows me how to get it done. I can call people who are doing it and who have done the missteps and they'll be like, well, don't go right right now because I did that before. Let's go straight for a second, a little longer than you want to, and then you can hit, right? You know, and that was, that was power, man. That was power for me. And it was hard. That was probably one of the hardest things I ever, ever had. And you gave me something when we. Because you've been on the show a couple times, but you gave me something early on. You said, brother, just remember, like the podcast stuff, it may be difficult the first couple years and you weren't trying to, you weren't trying to set me up like, to.

I remember this conversation.

Yeah, but you gave me a piece of wisdom that you had experienced and you're just like, kind of like, stay with the mission, bro. Don't give up just because things get a little difficult. And to be honest, I don't think you know how important those words were to me. Probably about like it was up and down the first year, but then about like right after the first year into that second half of the, the second or the first half of the second year, dude, it was like, like, should I just hang this up? Like, this is becoming like stressful. This is just like really hard. I gotta find good people to be on.

People don't realize, like, running a successful podcast is a full time job. Like, you really have to cross off a lot of T's and dot a lot of I's and wear a lot of hats and do all the things. So, like, I totally honor and respect your path on that. And there was something. Oh, okay. I wanted to ask you this when you started to grow the podcast and when you started to really step out, because I totally resonate when you said the thing about not wanting help. Like, I think, you know, if I'm being honest, which. Hell, yeah, I'm being honest, a lot of what I've accomplished in my lifetime, even being a trainer for 10 years and then maybe even part of starting this podcast, which is my discovery to unfold, was trying to prove to the world that I could be successful and maybe even trying to prove to my father, because we all have a unique father wound to prove to my father that I could do it without his help, to prove to fill in the blank. I didn't need anyone. So I think. I think that's a really shared universal wound wound for the masculine. Like, not wanting to offer help because. Or not wanting to ask for help because if I. If I need help, then that means I'm somehow less of a badass. I think we all feel that for sure.

But.

But when you started to get some real momentum and when things started to catch, I have found in my own experience, I'm curious how you feel that when things start to really catch, that's when the saboteur comes up, and that's when the real challenges. It's almost like the eyes of karma come out from the shadows.

Yeah.

And karma wants to pay, have its debts back paid when. When you're being successful. So have you experienced that at all?

Oh, yeah. Recently. Man. I'm still. I. I am like. I'm like Josh Trent, like, probably a couple years back in that journey. I'm sure you can resonate with. With the stuff that I've been going through recently, but things would start going well, and then all of a sudden it's like, no, no, you didn't do any of that. Someone else.

What is that? Is that, like, a voice on your shoulder? Is it like. Like a dark Jiminy Cricket? Like.

Yeah, like, describe it. I love that.

How would you describe that voice? Because we all have it.

It was. It's a dark J. It really is. It's that voice that's just sitting there, and he's like, you didn't do any of that. Like, that came to you because of this person, this person, this person. You didn't do that. And you can't repeat that. That's the One thing that gets me all the time, you can't repeat that. You just did something really cool. Like, first off, we're not going to celebrate it because you didn't do it. And second off, you can't repeat that, so don't celebrate it. It's not. It's not a win for you. And that's the story that. That the dark Jiminy Cricket hops up. And he loves to tell me that one. And that's the one that I fought through. Through this last year, actually, because the podcast has really gotten a lot of traction with some great guests. We. With the Wild Man Experience, we've started to get more traction with a pipeline with guys who are just, like, ready to throw down and get out there and just be part of it. We've gotten. I've gotten more things done with my programs that I run for Men, where guys are just, like, messaging me out of the blue, like, hey, brother, let me know when the next one's over. I've never had this. This is literally a first time. And I'm like, yeah, things are going smooth. This is great. And then little dark Jiminy Cricket comes up and he's like, bro, it's not going great. It's going great right now, but tomorrow's going to be bad.

Yes.

You know, tomorrow's. Tomorrow's not going to be good because you can't do this again. This is just fortune right now. This is. This is luck. This is the epitome of luck. You're not driving this. And that's the. That's the argument. I fight with myself every day. Day, honestly. And that's something that I have to conquer every morning. Like, and that's for reals. That's. Even up until.

That's honest.

When we. Yeah, when we went to the Wild man. Like, even up to that. I have to conquer that every day. And maybe conquer is not even the right word. I. I need to. I need to get my mind in a position that it says that that's not the truth, you know, and allow myself to give grace to who I am and to give myself the. The understanding that I do create my outcomes. I do. I'm the one that makes the connections with people. I am the one that's putting myself out there. Why guys are coming in and even reaching out to me about this. It's not. It is repeatable, and it's always repeatable. So I have to conquer that or I have to work with that every. Every morning. That's part of my morning routine. I Do everything I can to set my mind up to not have dark Jiminy Cricket come out that. That day. Wow.

I mean, the. The dyad of you, the evolved Johnny, like Johnny 2.0 Johnny, higher self. Not versus, but just in cohabitation with the dark Jiminy Cricket. The lower self, whatever you want to say. The one, like, the dark Jimmy Cricket. I mean, I'm kind of picturing, like, your Jiminy Cricket would have, like, a beard and long hair, but his clothes would be all gnarled. Yeah. He really wouldn't be clean. Maybe. Maybe he wouldn't be as muscular. But he's. He's part of you and I. And I think Jung talks about this as our shadow, the collective shadow, and the shadow inside of ourselves. And this might be a really interesting time to pivot to your journey with Mother Ayahuasca, because I think that it happened just a few months ago, and people know my experience and a big part of my life has been definitely shaped and impacted for the better because of my plant medicine experiences. But one thing that I got from your story, and I'd love for you to share this story, story for any man who's looking to reconnect with the mother that we walk on, that we're from, and also the feminine side of himself. Did you feel like it was something where when you were presented with the challenges and the ordeals in the ceremony, that you really were prepared for it, or did you feel unprepared? What even made you want to go out to Peru and do that in the first place? Because it's not like something that someone just decides on a whim to do. Like, this has been in your field for a while. For you to want to go do an experience like this. What even made you want to go?

I mean, full honesty, because that's. That's just, you know, me. But it. Full honesty is. It wasn't really me that said, I want to go do it. My wife Taylor, wanted to hop out there for her birthday. She. She had been recently called to Ayahuasca, and she'd done it in Costa Rica. But we had this amazing opportunity to work with a group out of Peru in the Sacred Valley, and she really wanted to do it for her birthday. And I was like, you know what? I'm not scared of it. I'll go do it. I wasn't necessarily thrilled because I was like, I don't know what's gonna come up.

Do you have.

Yeah. Got a lot going on, from the.

Tent to the military to everything. Were you like, what the. Am I gonna find that?

And I was also kind of freaked out. Like, you know, you hear some of these people who. Who have their. Their. Their journey becomes something where they're actually physically going, getting up and doing something. Yeah, right. Not necessarily hurting people, but they're getting up and moving. And. And I know in. In ayahuasca ceremony, you don't really want to touch that person while they're in their journey nor anybody else under it. And so I was like, dude, if I'm that guy that does that, like, there's a high likelihood this is going to happen. I don't know what's going to come up. I have no clue, because there's. Like you said, there's just so much to my path past. So I was. I was more scared of myself than I was scared of doing the plant medicine. But I was like, you know what? My wife wants to do this. I've been. I've been in the. The circle of people talking about it. I know enough about it to. To understand that the medicine works with you and gives you what you need in that moment. So there was a point where I got. Before I even got to. To the. In Peru, I got real excited because I was like, I'm gonna have epiphanies. My business is gonna blow up. This is gonna be great. And then I get there, and none of that happens for me. So. So that was. That was the other side of that. But there was some. Some. A little bit of fear there of. Of what was gonna come out there was that. That fear. But as I, you know, you and I kind of talked about it more the last night at the Wildman, it became that my calling was that I love my wife so much that I was willing to go step into it and. And see what was it had for me. And see, I wasn't on a mission to go do it myself, but my wife wanted to go do it, and I loved her so much. And I. And I was already in that mindset of. Of kind of. I was already in the mindset of potentially being there at some point in my life, but I didn't know when that was going to be. And I said, well, this is an opportunity to do it, so let's go. Let's go see what there is for it and see how this helps me. And then there was the excitement of epiphanies, and then that didn't happen.

So. And a lot of times with. When it comes to plant medicines, I've heard people say, like, oh, I Feel calm. Called.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's actually like, it doesn't trigger me, but I don't know that that's always the truth. When people say, oh, I feel called to the medicine. Right? There's one side of it where it's like, you mean you want to just go do some drugs. And then there's the other side of it where people truly are called because they've explored vipassana float tanks, maybe psilocybin, maybe microdosing, maybe using like the stamens protocol or Jamie Wheels hedonic calendar. Like, there's things, There's a progression to get people to sit with medicine, medicine. And a lot of times when I hear people get really excited and they're like, I'm gonna do it. I'm like, watch out. Like, you need to be really respectful and careful if you're that excited to go do the medicine, like, take a deeper inventory of that. So I, I resonate with what you're saying because going and sitting with any medicine in a ceremony is a very sacred and serious act. Yes, joy can come from it. Yes, good things can come from it. But also it deserves, like, you know, the two handed sacred hold of, of really deep honoring. Because a lot of times people go and do all these ceremonies and they come back and they just talk about their next ceremony instead of integrating the wisdom that they got from the ceremony. So, dude, the question I wanted to ask you at the table.

Yeah.

What are you integrating? What are you integrating from your journey? Like, what did you learn during the journey? And how are you bringing that back here, man?

Because, you know, more in depth, but my mind was more of a physical healing. And then there was that deep ancestral healing with Buford that, that really hit home for me. And actually it's really funny because. Not funny, I hate that statement. We use that idiom all the time. But it's like, what was really interesting to me, was really interesting to me was that I didn't know what that meant until you kind of worked it out with me at the table. I didn't know what that experience with bufo was. I know what it felt like, but I didn't know what it meant for me to even have the moment of integration. Migration, but with, you know, ayahuasca. For me, it was to treat my body better. Like, I'd been working out since I was 16 years old. I'd put it through a lot of hardships, jumping out of airplanes, fast roping out of helicopters, all this other stuff. I'd put my body through immense stress and pressure. And I realized my body had always been stressed. Even when I thought I was relaxed, my body was never relaxed. And so what I. I gathered from Ayahuasca when I went through that journey was that I needed to respect my body a lot better, both internally and externally. And so, you know, somebody who I have immense respect for, who. Who, you know is Sean Stevenson, and. And I read his book Eat Smarter just recently that came out, and. And it really helped me to dial in what that respect for myself looks like internally, because that really affects. As you. You're very well. Well, Irving, a lot of your listeners are, but that affects everything inside of us, from our joints to. To our bowels to our hormones to our mental faculties. Everything is affected by that food that we put in. So I was like, wow, I really need to. Because I'd give myself these justifications of, oh, Friday hits. Like, we, you know, we can. We can eat kind of crappy, but then the rest of the week, we're good. We eat really well. So, like, we eat really clean.

I feel that way about beer, about alcohol. Like, we were at the event, and I was like, I'm going to have a beer.

Oh, yeah.

It was like this magical event. I'm like, I'm going to have a beer. And people looked at me like, like, what is dude, crazy? I'm like, no, it doesn't resonate with my system. So. So you got all these messages from the medicine, and what was it like to start to come out of the teachings? And what. What lessons do you feel like you've really held on to and that you're dedicated to bringing here and to actually integrating here?

Well, the lesson. The lesson that I feel like I'm. That I'm integrating here was. Was holding integrity for the standard of. Of the man I want to be. Because part of that was I always have had a high level of integrity, but I. I felt like when I became on this entrepreneurship journey, I lost a lot of that. It's easy to do, dude. I, like, you know, all of a sudden, a snooze, buttons hit, and then you're setting your day up with, you know, you know, setting yourself back right there. You're telling your. Your subconscious that you're not owning the integrity you set for yourself, which was to get up when that alarm hit, and then other things, like, you know, so it was just compiling of a lack of integrity. Before I went to Ayahuasca, and as I went to Ayahuasca and came back out of it through. Obviously they do a very good job at cleaning up your diet for you while you're there for the week. Then you experience the plant medicine. The plant medicine told me that my body was the thing I needed to focus on in that journey. So when I came out of it, the integration has been been. And obviously we kind of indulged this weekend, but has been to really give myself the ability to take care of this meat suit that we're carrying around. Because if I'm going to create any type of impact, I also need to feel good about what I'm carrying around both internally and externally. It's not just about working out. It's about, you know, all the biohacking tricks that you, you offer everybody. All those things that you give people on this show. I take those and I'm like, dude, I need to keep doing those because that's, that's what's going to help me to take care of all this. That's scientifically proven to increase longev and health and everything else in our body. So coupled with the eating, the integration for me is to continue to hold integrity, to do those things and not create justifications of why I can skip out that day. Yeah, right. Like holding yourself accountable to being like, if I'm going to hold my wife accountable to stuff, I better hold myself accountable to things. So it's holding myself accountable if I say I'm going to do it. And maybe that day you even talked about it with Carrie, what you guys do with the heart.

And yeah, five minutes check in.

Some days you're like, dude, five minutes.

Just listen for five minutes. Right, right. So I'm curious, what is the deepest edge that you're leaning into post ceremony? In other words, like, yes, we understand what you're integrating with your body, but what is the deepest edge of this highest version of Johnny that you're leaning into? Is it uncomfortable? What's that like to know, okay, I have a picture, I have a vision of this. I'm leaning into it. I'm really pouring my heart and soul into it. What's an edge for you there? What's challenging about that for you?

I mean, what comes to mind for me is the edge of like, I want to say, like confronting the demons and darkness inside that continually come up and in question what I'm doing every day. They're questioning if I'm making an impact, questioning if I'm a man of integrity, questioning if I'm teaching one way and not living the same. For me, it's post, post Plant medicine has been to find that crevice and where that's residing, fighting, and to confront it, to step into it, and to own it. Because instead of running from it like I've been doing for so many years of my life, I have to find where it is because I know it's in there. And that was part of, part of that journey because like we talked about with Bufo, that's what came up. It was that deep anger and pain and struggle. And then I was crying and I couldn't even, I couldn't stop it. It just poured out of me and I was like, holy crap. It wasn't even my pain. But there's so much pain somewhere that I'm holding on onto. I have to find that. Because all of that is holding me back from really, truly opening up and full throttle to helping men on this planet as much as I can. So I think for me, when you ask that question, it's finding and, and, and continuing to search for that deep, dark crevice. Because he pops up every day. We already talked about some of the things he says to me.

A little dark Jiminy.

Yeah, a little dark Jiminy. He comes up and we've already talked about what he says to me, me. But he sits there and he waits and he waits and he's patient and I have to be more patient. And then I have to be able to confront him and own him, Own, own what he's bringing to me.

Just, just for a minute, let's talk about that. Because there's this analogy of like the shadow or the dark Jiminy. And every human being experiences this on some level. You know, obviously if you've done work for a long time, if maybe you're Ram Dass, maybe it's a little bit easier for you at some level point, but all of us deal with this dark part that says, you're not in shape enough, you can't handle this, you're not going to make enough money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some of that I really believe, especially from these conversations I've had on Wellness force. I absolutely, 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, believe that it's collective. It comes from the collective, from us being in the collective, from us experiencing life in the collective, going out. That's what. Why it's really like we have to be vigilant about who we hang with. Because if I hang out with the wrong person, I start feeling like shit, I start doubting myself, I start going, what am I doing in this world? Like That's a big one. But then there's also the personal. And I think from what you shared with me in your Ayahuasca ceremony, I was, like, amazed, because I have heard of this concept of people purging for others and being able to clear the energy of others through them. Them. Do you feel like it was a combination of both? So, in other words, did you. Did you clear energy for the collective that was dark and crunchy and nasty? And did you also clear your own Gemini Cricket energy? And how would you. How would you describe the difference between the two.

After you and I talked about it? I feel like potentially it was an ancestral clearing or a, you know, collective clearing. When you say that, that really resonates with me that maybe I was holding some of that pain for that collective because the, you know, our energies do interact consistently with. With each other.

I mean, I've sat with people and all of a sudden they're throwing up. They don't know why. They're having all these visions that aren't even theirs. I mean, I've experienced visions. I'm like, that's not me. That's not my. You know.

Well, if. If your listeners haven't done it yet, there was, I believe, a study done by NASA or somebody, but they measured the energetic output after 9, 11, 11, and it was off the charts out in New York. It was crazy. It wasn't. It had nothing to do with, like, the energy facilities, the material energy that's. That's here in this world. It was this huge energetic output from New York that just was emanating off the Earth. And it was because the collective. Because the. The heartache and pain that had gone on and the hopeful and wishful thinking that things would get better and collectively supporting and loving one another. There was a huge energetic output from that. And they read it. I think they. They actually tried from the International Space Station. But that's where I kind of look at it and say, well, maybe that was what I was doing, because we were also interacting all the time, that maybe that was part of it. But I think for me, the difference on the personal side of it was that I felt like. I felt better. I felt tranquil. I felt peaceful afterwards. Like, it sat in me for about 20 minutes afterwards. I got up and I went outside and I just couldn't talk to anybody. And I was like, I'm still in this right now. But it wasn't that huge, immediate, like, what it was for the first 20, 20 minutes.

Yeah.

And when I. When I went outside I was like, just thinking about everything in me that was like, oh, my God, like, this is, I feel relief. I feel so much relief. And maybe it, maybe because of the way that my, my brain has wired, it's, it's taken some of all this trauma that affects other people different ways, and I've been able to manage it, and that was my release from it. But I definitely feel, felt the relief in my body, in my mind, and that helped me to also be, man, it really helped me to be a lot more centered with myself when I was home. I, I, I really find that being, like, so much better with who I am. And. Okay, if there's moments that I'm not at this pinnacle all the time, this, this high level of alertness and eliteness, if I'm not there, it's okay. Okay. And I used to not think that I was like, dude, if you're not there, you're failing today.

And I was like, that's a lot of pressure to withhold all the time.

Yeah. And I feel like when I went through that and I got home, I was okay with sometimes just being okay. When it was a day that I, I didn't, I was not called or felt aligned with hitting that elite level, I knew, like, with myself, I was like, okay, there's people, peace here. What, what can I do for me today that's going to resonate with that peace? And so that's what I experienced afterwards, and that's how I can say that there's a difference, because I think that collective outpouring, that collective release heals maybe the other people that interact with you, they, and, and I, and I got some feedback from that at, at the retreat as well. But part of that was like, healing how people can interact with you and how they can feel safe with you because there's this release of, even for them, pain and suffering. Right. So I think for me, that was kind of like, if you ask me that question, if that makes sense, that's my separation between the two.

It's powerful because you got all this wisdom from a mother. Ayahuasca. Yeah. And then on your website, you said your, your tailor, she put you down the path of evaluating, evaluating yourself and the struggles that you were going through. And you were like, naturally I said that no one can tell me how to be a man because they haven' Seen the things or had been through the times I've been through. How do you reflect on that when you wrote that? I'm sure you wrote this quite some time ago versus Your ayahuasca experience. Like, what's the lesson in both this reflection with Taylor and what's the lesson from Ceremony?

I mean, the lesson kind of corresponds to both. But the lesson from that, for this, for everybody that can play catch up with from that first, for the. For that statement, was that I look at that wounded Johnny as somebody who didn't understand that everybody's journey is different. And. And experiences and trauma are experiences and trauma for that person, regardless of how I perceive them in my own life. Because there's men I look at, and I'm like, bro, you went through some real trauma, some real traumatic stuff. Stuff. And I don't feel like mine even measures up to that. And then I get insecure with myself. Like, that person's dealt with more trauma, and they're great people in this world. Like, who am I to even complain about the stuff I used to do? So I find insecurity in that. But looking at the man that wrote that or looking at the man that said that during that time, was that he was so wounded in understanding that everybody is their own person. And the journey for them is that journey, whether you believe in it, their soul contract in this universe, whether you believe it's their umpteenth time on this planet and they have some other things they need to work out. But everybody's journey is that personal journey to them. And who am I to judge that? Who am I to be somebody play, you know, ex judge. What is it? Judge, jury and execution. There you go. Judge Jinx. No, but who was I to play judge, jury, and executioner for other people? Like, who was I to be that kind of guy? And then. And then I. And I look back at him and I'm like, bro, how. How many people you were alone? And you say that you were alone in life. You didn't have that close proximity to people that you could be, like, so close that you guys were calling each other every day. And if you saw Josh, you saw Johnny. I didn't have that in life. And was it because I pushed that away?

One of the things I love about our friendship, our connection, this conversation, and the work that we do in the world world is the fact that we can speak like this and it makes sense. It's not pie in the sky. Johnny and Josh are on a mountaintop, and we've got it all figured out. Or, you know, we're so spiritual. I feel like the world is. Especially men. We're. We're craving. We're so hungry for practical spirituality for, like, Real connection with the divine, with mother, with Father, with earth. But also it can be so challenging because of how spirituality gets hijacked at times. I'm not going to say names. Everybody's got their own barometer of truth. But in our space, there's a lot of people that they don't necessarily walk the talk. And if you hang out with them, like there's nowhere to hide in an event, you're going to get to know people for three, four days. So there's really, like, if you have some personality, clicks, quirks, they're going to come through and people are going to see it, you know, And I've done this at conferences where I'll interview somebody on the podcast and I'll try to hang out with them at dinner or something. And they're just so disappointed, disconnected. Yet their business is about connection. Do you feel like we all teach what we most need to learn, or is that just placating the lesson?

Oh, I, I 100 agree with that. I honestly, like, I, I feel like when I teach other men, I'm actually teaching me. I'm actually identifying. I honestly feel like I actually am and identifying still things that I struggle with. And I. And I know they do, too. So I'll do work to help teach them on it. I'll do the investigation. I'll try to get. I'll do my best to get the information that's been studied on. I do, I can to help them. But at the end of the day, I'm literally just helping myself as well, because I'm going through this journey too. I don't have all the answers. Like, I'm out here just trying to be a guy that can help guide dudes and let them know it's okay, that they're, they're. They might be struggling, that they may be lost. But, you know, we all go through those moments and I'm in them, in and out. As we've talked about on this episode. I, I go on them in and out to this day. Yeah. And so absolutely, I think that if we're teaching, but I think that's the best way to be a teacher. If you, if you're teaching from something that you need to learn, learn, you're going to be more invested in finding the right. I don't want to say right or wrong, but you're more invested in finding some form of solution that you can give to yourself and then pass on that wisdom. So, in all honesty, that's the, That's a great way of being a Teacher. And I think that we should embrace that. There's nothing wrong with that because we're all constantly learning. Because if not. And you think you're higher than everybody else and you think that you've surpassed past the Dalai Lama and you're the all knowing being of any subject, it's like, well, there's almost 8 billion people on this planet. I don't know that you are, brother.

There's a key difference in my opinion from the scholastic and the academic teacher or a spiritual guide or a spiritual trusted mentor. Those terms are way separate because on one side there's like the kind of relationship that America has built with academia and with being a tenured professor and all these things, but these men and women that are like 20 year tenured professors, they haven't been in the real world, on the front lines of whatever their profession is in two decades, yet they're speaking about it and they're trying to teach you, the student, as if they are. In other words, they have all this wisdom, but they really can't apply it because they've been sitting in a classroom for a long time. You're different. What I like about you is you have this servant leadership to you, where, yeah, you have the academic background and you've been to war and you have a lot of accolades, but really what I sense from you is just this very kind heartedness. And that's rare. So keep that. Promise me you'll keep that.

I will, brother.

No matter what happens with your podcast, no matter what goes on after this conversation. Like, we get tested. We get tested in this world. And I've really had to learn how to breathe properly. Not just through our Breathe Breath and Wellness program, but so that I don't spin myself out and start believing someone else's story that they're trying to teach to me. So with all the things we've covered, man, we covered a lot of ground. Um, let's talk about just a handful of things that, that men can do practically. You know, maybe this is the second time they're listening to this. Yeah, but what, what can a man do? Or, or what can a woman that supports her man to be the best version of himself? What can they do? Like tomorrow morning, whether it's starting their day, whether it's applying something in their day. And let's not even make it complicated. Like, let's make it really what you yourself do and how you teach your men in your programs and in your events. What's, what's a handful? Maybe, maybe one to three Things that they can apply on a daily basis. That's really moved the needle for you.

Yeah, brother. I love this because I. I love keeping it simple. Part of what I really enjoy about helping men with is. Is getting a good structural foundation, which is all simple things. That's how we became elite in. In special operations. It wasn't because we were just, like, crazy complex. We had to start somewhere. And when those foundational pieces. Pieces were super strong, that's when we got to be complex. That's when we got to do the Cirque du Soleil stuff, you know, that's when we got to get real crazy with how we did and approached a mission. But the reason why is because when stuff spun out of control, we could go back to the foundational pieces. And I found that has been important for me. So I love the practicality and simplicity in giving good tools that just aren't break. You don't have to go and break the universe to. To create something. Something new. Like, you can give people something that's simple. So I love this. Thank you for opening the door for it.

Yeah.

And one of the things I can tell guys, because I was terrified to do it when I started this journey was to simply journal. And what I came up with was called a. I. I don't. I haven't marketed this, and I don't have one, so I'm not like, plugging anything but, like, what I like to refer to as a psycho journal. And basically, you write for, like, three pages, and you don't have to do it all at once. Maybe you do it over a day or two days and write any of the crazy that comes into your head. Like, anything. If you're cussing at your wife or your kids or yourself. If you're loving up on. On your. Your family and you're expressing gratitude, whatever, the most craziest you want to think of that's holding you back, write it down. Write it right for three pages, then rip them out and burn them or shred them. So, no, nobody gets to them, right? Because that's our fear. That's our fear.

Can you go back and read them and laugh at how silly they are too?

You perfectly can. But where I was when I started this is. I didn't. I was so scared that someone was gonna grab them and. And grab my journal and read it that I was like, bro, if, like, this comes out, like, like all of a sudden, you know, your friend comes over and they grab it and then they see it and start making fun of you. Or start, you know, saying, like, bro, this guy. We ain't coming back here. This guy's psycho. Right? Like, you don't want that. And so my fear, that was a true fear of mine before I started journaling. I know that this has worked for me, but when I started doing it, all of a sudden what happened was it became really crazy that, like, I was like, dude, I wouldn't want anybody to read this. Then it became gratitude and. And. And more peace. And then it became creative, and I was like, where did I started writing poems? I started, like, writing, like, music.

Music.

I started to just write stuff that was on my heart and no longer was that crazy stuff even in my head. And I watched this transition over, you know, the first year that I had done it, and I was like, whoa, wow. Okay. I was really scared of this, but I feel so much better right now. And even after the first times I started, I felt so much relief. So that was one of the tools that I love to give guys, because I experienced, and I know a lot of my alpha brothers out there who have been in the field that I was. They feel the same way. You know, we've talked about it before, and I've talked about it with some of my friends, and they've been like, yeah, but what if somebody finds it? Okay, yeah, like, burn it. Burn the Pages then take 3.

My answer would just be, so the what, Right? Exactly. So the what if you found it? Like, that's my crazy psycho journaling, as you call it.

Yeah, yeah, but with Josh. With Josh, what, five years ago have.

Said that maybe, but Josh, seven years ago, hell no. Right?

So seven years ago, Josh would have said that.

2013, Josh would be like, you are such a P U S S Y dude. What are you talking about? Right? Anything else that you do on a daily basis for, obviously your exercise is paramount. It's obvious you're a super healthy guy. But. But how do you look at physical intelligence? How do you integrate that into. Into being an embodied man to being a man that's your higher self. So.

So I've come up with. With a couple things, and I'll just. I'll share this. And. And I'm not advanced in either of them. You're really advanced in one, and then the other one. You probably experience it, but I don't know if you do it on a regular basis. So the first one is I got into, obviously, breathing. I. I used to laugh at that too. Right? And then it's like. And for anybody, that. That still is kind of on the fence about it. But if you're listening to Wellness Force, you know how important it is. But if anybody's on the fence about it, I. They use this for Navy seals now. They use this for Special Forces. They use this for really elite, elite groups. And breathing is incredibly important. And even I found myself before I came here. I was, you know, after driving from Corpus and coming here to Austin and everything, I got here about an hour before and then I was like, okay, breathe. And, and like immediately I got into this more peaceful state. And to me that has shown that even though I've been doing it now for probably about a year or so, pretty, pretty, pretty regularly and, and holding integrity with it, it's. It's put me to a point where before I go into a room now I can reconnect with me and come in with a different energy than what I was outside that door. So that is. Breathing to me is so important, which is why your work, your breath work is so important and everybody truly needs to be part of that because it just. There's so much connection with yourself that you can find in that. And even, just simple of even breaths before you go into a party or a room is going to change how you show up.

I love how you said that because people think of breath work and they think of Wim Hof where it's like, yeah, no, and it's like, hold on, that's catharsis breathing. Like we don't always have to do cathartic breathing. Like you can do acute breathing which is like stage fright or fighting with your wife or whatever. And then there's the meditative breathing which is like proactive breathing where you're cleaning your engine. So yeah, it's not just about people think of breath work and it's like, oh, it has be to. To be this crazy spiritual experience. It's like, no, you can meditate for three minutes, you can do breath work for three minutes. You know, it's just whatever, it's whatever your day is calling for.

So. And I'm proof to that. I know now, like I literally take. It's about three to four breaths that I do of just a simplistic circular breathing. It's. It's nothing crazy, but I do that. And then within the. About the fourth breath, I'm already just like super, super back into me and peaceful. My mind stops racing and it, like I said, nothing crazy and I'm a testament that I'm somebody that used to bash it. Come on, dude. Come on. Who's doing breath work, really. And then the. The last thing for guys, and then I'll give one tool for girl for women out there who can want to get their men on a journey. But the one thing for guys, another thing is what I like to do is a. Like a threshold check. So anytime you're gonna. Before you walk into a door, through a door, check your mindset and how you're showing up just briefly. It doesn't take very long. Like, oh, man, I had a really stressful day at work. I'm walking into the house. I say, okay, how do I want to show up on the other side of this door? And the other side of this door is I want to show up as. As an intent father. But if you give yourself that question, you're going to come up with an answer and you'll show up with that energy. So that's the other one. And for men, and then the last one for women is that do psychological one warfare. So we're seeing it right now with the plandemic, but use it for positive things. On your. On your spouse or significant other is put on a podcast when they're around that you know, they're gonna like. So they start to hear the information, like my wife did to me when we were friends. Maybe toss them a book you think is gonna be really impactful and let them sit on it for two months, three months. But they're gonna come around to it, and you can allow them to find that in their own time. But when you do those things, you're gonna subconsciously start to program them to. To start listening to the information. So I'm all about it. It's all for good reason. It's all for good reason.

So, yeah, and it's not what I get from you isn't about control. It's just about the gesture of kindness and connection. It's about the gesture of kindness and connection. So I would assume that every couple that wants to grow is going to constantly go back to, hey, what is my partner doing? And how can I be more curious? That is the one overarching concept that I get from every single, single either person that, that we work with as a couple or that I read in a book or that I have on my show. It's like if we can just be curious in the face of all these triggers and all the programs and all the. All the history that we've been through, man, curiosity is like the lightsaber that comes and just crushes everything else. Because if I'm triggered by You, Johnny, and I'm upset and blah, blah. Instead of me going, you know, I'm really fucking triggered by you, and I can't imagine this. If I could just remind myself to take six circular breaths and go, hey, you know what? I'm really curious when you act like that or when you say that thing, can you share with me why you do that? It's like, boom. I mean, walls come down. Totally different experience. But it's because I was mature enough, I was patient enough to tune to my breath, cycle down my vagus nerve and connect with you and be like, ah, why do you do that? You know, but it's. But it's a practice, man. And so is the art of masculinity. So as we wrap today, like, share with people the art of masculinity. It's not just a podcast. I mean, this is your movement, the Wild man experiences within your company as well. For someone who's feeling inspired and they want to engage with you, obviously your podcast. But this experience is unique. You run it two, three times a year. I can attest to this. You guys are going to see the B roll and you're going to see me in this podcast. Podcast right now, actually. We'll stick something in of me shooting at a helicopter. Look at that. Look how amazing that is. You see me shooting at a helicopter and look like, these are things that I never thought I would ever do. And so when we put ourselves as men in these different experiences, we learn new things about ourselves, we bring them back home. So share. Share with people that don't know anything about Wildman, where they can go to learn more.

Yeah.

And when the next ones are coming up and just, you know a little bit about how they can start to engage with you and get involved with you, your work.

Yeah, absolutely, brother. Thank you. And this has been a blast. So I just love it. It's been such a fun time talking with you. And thank you for giving me the platform to. To share this with people. Really, the best way is you guys can go check out my website, which is Johnny lsasser, and that's E L S A S S E R. I know Josh will put all this in the show notes.

It's spelled perfectly here.

Yeah, it's. But just go visit that.com and you can find me. You can find the information about the Wild Man. We have a couple set up for next year. We're already sol February. April's looking like it potentially may not have much left. But then there. There'll be one Another one in October, November time frame. So best thing to do is to get on the email list so you can know when it's going to come out. We always launch it out and sometimes if we have the availability, we'll, we'll also toss out like, cool deals to our email community. So I love to do that, but you can find it there and you can connect with me at Instagram is usually the best way. So just Johnny Elsasser again on Instagram. And if you DM me, I'm. I am definitely in charge of my own Instagram. And so I email or I message people back and actually have real conversations with them. So those are the best ways. And that's how you can find out more about the Wild man and what's going on as far as how, you know, my ecosystem looks with the savage system and all the other things that we're putting together to hopefully just bring great things so guys can really just center themselves and find out who they truly are and show up up that way.

You know, the term embodiment gets thrown around, but I really feel like you embody a lot of good things, a lot of great things for men. And also I love that you embody the humility to share that you haven't fully embodied everything too. So I really, I really respect that about you, man. And being with you for these past four days has been absolutely incredible. You know, people throw around that word too. It's incredible. It's incredible. Like, nah, this really was, it was something very different. So if you're a man out there and you're looking for a unique experience, I would absolutely, wholeheartedly recommend this. And as we say, goodbye, man, at the intersection of what you do, which is being a badass wild man, but also a centered man who knows his masculine and feminine. How would you describe wellness? Like, with all you've been through, like the tent and military and the divorce and then being with Taylor and leaving that space and launching your own podcast, like, it's been a twisty, turny road for you. So what have you learned most? And how do you define wellness? Like, what do you, what do you see wellness as now?

I love this question. And, and I've thought about it a lot in my life and especially more recently. But for wellness is to strip away all the material things in your life, to strip away the people, strip away the people you love from your life. What do you look like? If you aren't happy with that person person, then how are you. Well, to include the things that they put in their body to include how you treat yourself psychologically. What are the things that you say to yourself in those moments of being alone? How do you treat yourself when you have a success in your life? Do you celebrate anything? Do you give yourself grace when you falter? That, to me is wellness. To strip yourself of everything else. And who the are you? And if you can't look in the mirror and say, I love that man or that woman staring back you at at me, then I don't feel like you've hit that complete wellness for who you are. And I just want people to be their themselves in this world because in all reality, nothing outside of us means anything if we aren't well and we aren't centered in who we are. So that would be my description of being well and having true wellness.

It's a beautiful mirror to look in the mirror of truth.

Yeah.

And the truth is whatever we say it is, which is so fascinating to me this whole life, such a cool game. It has its challenges, it has its joys. And it's been a pleasure, man. I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. Thank you for coming on the show. Appreciate you, man. I love you. I really respect what you do and I'm stoked to keep this friendship going and learn more and have more experiences and shoot more guns out of helicopters.

Absolutely.

So until we do that, this is Josh and Johnny saying goodbye. And before you take a breath in your day today, set an intention about what you want to create and what you want to actually do and become and take that love and wellness with you. So I'm wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.

It.