Justin Andrews & Josh Trent: CES LIVE 2018

Josh, Trent and Justin are at the Lavender palace here in Las Vegas, and we're talking about technology. And we're also talking about other things that involve technology, including sexual underwear chips that you can implant in your skin that produce different pheromones. And somewhere in there, we'll talk about fitness.

Yeah, somewhere we'll talk about fitness.

I think a little bit.

Yeah.

Yesterday was a crazy day.

It was crazy. This is my first experience at ces, so, I mean, I was like a fish in big, big waters there. I didn't know where to go to.

Pacific Ocean, Yes.

I was like, coming in from a little pond and jumping into the ocean, so.

But you're a big fish, man. I mean, how long have you actually been interested in technology? This has been like 10, 15 years for you.

It's kind of my thing. I'm. I'm always paying attention to what the coolest new thing that's coming out. And I. I'm totally guilty of buying all the gadgets and everything else. Even if it's useless, I can't help it. It's. If it's cool, I'm in, you know, and I'm paying attention. So this is one of those trips where I'm like, yay. It was like almost Disneyland for me just to see all the cool tech and gizmos out there that people are coming up with.

I felt overwhelmed, though. I almost felt at times there's no way, even if I wanted to see everything, that I could see everything. And especially when it comes to. There's a whole home section at ces and we were talking about this too. So let's dive into, like, how everything's freaking connected, right? Your fridge, your phone, your wearable, and.

Even don't want you to get up anymore. They want to do everything for you now. Like, everything. So, I mean, I didn't see anything for the refrigerator. We talked about this as far as, like, so if I'm low grocery wise, if I've running out of something, they're going to figure that out and order it for you. So it's just. It's the convenience factor, right? They're trying to figure that out everywhere in your home. They're trying to make everything sort of automated and communicate for you.

And this is cool, too, because on one side we have technology that's making things easier, but then on the other side, it's like we still have to remain conscious and keep hold of our free will choice. That's a fine line.

It is. It is these days. I mean, it's Everything's moving so fast, and it's almost like in this whole facial recognition thing. So I just got the iPhone X and I can order just by using my face. And so if I'm linked up to Amazon prime and I impulsively want to buy something, boom, it just happened just like that. I didn't have any time to evaluate that decision.

So it can make us buy things that possibly we don't want. You know, there's a lot of stuff at this CS that, like, I know I don't want it all, but what were a few things that you saw where you're like, wow, I could actually see myself using that. I could see myself purchasing that. I had, like, probably a big three. I had big three that I would actually use. Yeah.

I mean, there was a ton of wearables. And here's the thing, we actually went to the wrong side. So we ended up.

You were hanging out all the drones, man.

Yeah. Which was cool, but I was trying to find all the fitness gadgets because that's, you know, more of my interest as far as, like, what we do with the podcast and everything. But, man, yeah, we were over there with all the drones, all the cameras, all that stuff. And, you know, coming back to the fitness side, there was a few. There's a few things that I thought were pretty cool and pretty interesting. I forget the name of the company. Ucom. Is that the name of the company?

Nucalm? Yeah. Dude, tell us about your situation there, because that was the first time anybody's ever rubbed Gaba cream on your neck.

Yeah, it was the first time, and I enjoyed it. And that was one of those things where I was completely open to see kind of what was going to happen with that and getting into that state. So you meditate basically for 20 minutes. And so you're in this chair and they put these eye blocks over you and you're listening to this sort of ambient music. And, man, my body shut down. It shut down. I was completely in that parasympathetic state. And getting up and kind of getting back to the world was tough, I thought. So they were actually pitching it more like, you're going to get this clarity. And now everything's a recharge. It's going to recharge you. And now you're going to get, you know, your mind's going to be sharper and going through. I didn't necessarily experience that. It really knocked me out the whole rest of the night. We were just super, super tired, and it. It knocked me out Man.

So the company's called Newcom, but they were telling me that now they're working with the NHL. They have a bunch of athletes they're working with. And I almost feel like, you know, the stuff that's in organifi, like the adaptogen, so the Ashwagandha, if you're tired, it'll actually allow you to rest. Maybe that's what it was. You were on four hours of sleep.

We were definitely running.

I mean, the Newcom. If we have pro sports teams that are looking at this, like, technology, this entrainment technology, you know that it has some value.

Absolutely. I mean, it. It did get me to that state. And so I think that one of the things, though, with these. These pieces of technology, like, so it's trying to. It's tried trying to condense that meditation process and kind of get you there quicker.

Yeah.

So it almost feels like some people that. That can't get there on their own, basically. They don't want to do the legwork to get to the meditation.

They want to cheat. Yeah.

Yeah. They want to get there as quick as possible. So I'm always cautious with products that try to get you there super fast, and you don't go through the natural process to get there. But I could totally see relevant usage for that with somebody that's super type A, super driven, has no idea how to actually feel that and what that feels like. So it definitely worked. So I was very curious.

It was fun, too, because we got there and just randomly, Dr. Michael Bruce was there, who, you know, wrote an entire book, and he has all this career work on chronobiology and circadian alignment, and he was saying that when you use this device, he actually uses it with his kids, which I thought. I was like, wow, if you use this with your, like, young kids, it's probably legit, but I think people are underslept, man. Like, how many things at CES were involving sleep tech? We'll talk about this thing a little bit. It is called the Sleep Score Max, which we talked to one of the founders there. There was an entire wing dedicated to sleep. Do you think America's just so tired that that's why. Let's sleep. Nobody's gonna sleep.

Everybody's overstimulated and running on that sympathetic drive, like, every day. I have to. I have to go 100%. And I think it's. It's one of those things that's so underrated, but now people are realizing the importance of sleep. Oh, my God. Like, sleep is so crucial. You Know, to. For metabolism, for. For hormone balance, everything. So. So I think that we're finally realizing, okay, we need to address this. And so now every company's trying to address it.

Let's go to bed. And it's funny that these technology companies are now making revenue off of the basic building blocks of human wellness, like breathing, sleeping, walking. All the things that are essentially free, they're making money off of. I find that fascinating.

It's very interesting, right? It's all these things that you can control yourself. Yeah. But now they're. They're sort of teaching you how to. How to relearn that process, like that intuitive side that you had, you know, growing up. And it's like we've lost that because we've been so distracted and been overstimulated by everything.

So that's what you're doing with Axon. Axon, the isometric training tool. It measures rate of force production, strength. Yeah, a lot of people are asymmetrical. The training is a little bit different than, like, this sleeping, the breathing, the training aspect. When are you going to put Axon at ces, man? I think next year you're going to be on stage. I know you will.

I would love that.

I'm going to mark my work. Justin is going to be at the CES FIT Tech Summit next year talking about Axon.

I would love to, and nothing would make me happier because I still. I very. I'm very passionate. I believe in this product. I believe in just. I feel like it's. It's part of training the human body that gets so overlooked. So it's one of those stepping stones that people just really aren't connected to their body like they should be. And they want to go right to getting into the gym or going through the latest really hard workout that they find on an infomercial. And they heard so and so got great results from this program where they haven't really taken the time to reconnect to their body. So Axon is one of those products. I could totally see people slowing down and finding out where the deficiencies lie and where I can reconnect with my body to better the entire body. So going through isometric exercises aren't the most sexy exercises.

They're so necessary.

Exactly. So it's one of those things that I think people will realize just like sleep. Sleep isn't that sexy. Right. It's crucial to so many things. And even weight loss, like, if. If you want to do one thing that's going to help with weight loss, these Days like I, I'm first evaluating your sleep. That's one of the first stepping stones. That's, that's one of the main foundational things that we're addressing sleep. You know, we're addressing nutrition obviously in activity, but stress levels. So I think that this is going to start gaining relevance and people are going to understand that I have to slow down, I have to focus, I have to understand like the process of recruitment. So I got to properly recruit certain muscles into certain movements and this makes it super easy. So it's one of those products. Yeah, I'm definitely passionate to get it out there and see how people are going to use it and benefit their training. So it's a very much a complimentary tool for any, anybody's training process.

And at CS there was probably, I would say half the floor of the devices that weren't that trustable, but then the other half took us back to movement and sleep and breath. Yes, this one was interesting. This is sleep score max. And it basically sends a near field technology wave. It's not harmful, it's not like RFID chipped in your body or anything, but it measures how much you move. It measures how much you're actually sleeping with your respiration. So it measures your breath and it measures how much you're moving throughout the night. So it'll actually give you a clear picture.

So it's like a scan that's constantly evaluating your breathing patterns and everything.

That's great. It's fascinating. And they're from San Diego and they are, I think either a subsidiary or they're partnered previously with the technology from ResMed, which is if you go to a sleep study where they put you in a sleeping ward and they check everything, it's the same technology in this little box. Everything's getting smaller. From Moore's Law. Yeah, like imagine this 20 years ago it would have been an entire wing of a university or something.

I was talking to somebody about that too because, you know, I've been a technology geek for a long time and especially in the fitness realm and it's interesting to meet you because there's not a lot of other fitness minded people like coming from a fitness background getting into tech.

So they're kind of, they're kind of adverse to it actually.

Right.

I found.

Well, yeah, because everything is numbers, you know, and they're looking at solving all these problems based off of metrics and metrics are only good if you know how to use them. And I feel like there's such a big demand for People that are actually, like, have more of a health and wellness background coming into tech and showing people how to navigate and use these products effectively. So that's why I think that we can kind of decipher, okay, so this product, I do see this having legs because there's an application there that's usable. But, you know, there's going to need to be some coaching. There's going to need to be some, some people there to really show people, you know, how to not get super consumed by just the numbers. Yeah. And how to use them properly.

Well, also, man, like, what's fucking inspiring about numbers? They're not that inspiring, but what is inspiring is some kind of training program attached to a human that makes the numbers powerful, that makes the numbers meaningful. The feedback on your device, like you have it there and, and you can actually track it over time. You can figure out, okay, I've grown my strength 15% in 30 days. Right. Like, that's something cool, that's something tangible. But how inspiring is a Fitbit two to six months, they go in the drawer. There's no real community. Right.

This has always been my experience and Fitbit's a great example that the thing Fitbit did really well, and I'll give them props for this, is build a community. So them being able to connect, you know, friends, family, and get that sort of accountability established to. Okay, I can see where you're at for today. And it's sort of this comparative thing. And yeah, I mean, you can make it competitive, but I just like the, the element there of like bringing in friends and family and being able to sort of have a shared experience with that. But yeah, the step count, I mean, how much can you really focus on that being, you know, your sort of gauge of, of success? Yeah, it only goes so far. So, yeah, I always wanted to kind of create something that, that got a little further as far as, you know, what's the actual work, what are you doing work wise? And you know, Axons for me has, has been very interesting in that regard because now I can actually see, you know, force production. Which force production? If you talk about in personal training, in the fitness side, not a lot of people talk about force production.

Yeah. And how important is it too? Because if you have force production, then you probably have grip strength, you probably have core strength, you probably have like, really good strength either, like ipsilateral, bilateral, like you have strength that's functional. But if you sit and you just do bench press or like, you know, lat pull down, that's not real strength, right. From a functional standpoint, absolutely.

I mean, you can. You can sort of add momentum into lifts, and you can. You can go based off of whatever recruitment patterns you've established. So you could be sort of mindless in the gym doing these exercises where this really shows you specifics of, you know, where you're losing connectivity. And it's central nervous system training, which that's been something that's been a huge sort of paradigm shift for me when I trained clients. It's, you know, how can I get that established? How can I get that response on demand and timely and effectively? And what are the best ways to sort of guide that experience and create proper recruitment patterns that are beneficial? So I think. So an example being like, so if I'm trying to curl something up, you tend to see a lot of people rock back. And so the body's natural inclination is to make something easier for you.

Yeah, it wants to be efficient. It just wants to get there, A.

To B, quickly getting it there, it's like, we got it here. Another example being like, I'm trying to reach for something and put something on the shelf. So if I'm doing like an overhead press, a lot of times you'll see people actually come up on their toes. And it's a trip because the body just wants to get up higher. That's all. Its focus is to get this object up higher. And so you have to shut down that part of your body and say, no. Okay. Our focus is up here in this actual pressing movement. So it's sort of. It's compartmentalizing the process and showing you how to be more effective.

And I remember when we did our video series at your studio in San Jose, the overhead press, if you're coming up on your toes, you're not going to generate as much power.

No.

So literally, it's going to tell you ground forces. It's going to tell you, like, the readout, the power output's going to tell you. So getting back to the body, I mean, I almost think somebody could use their body weight and maybe the axon stick or just something minimal like mini bands or, you know, not even weights, or step into a gym and probably train their whole body for an entire year and always be able to periodize it. What do you think about that?

They could. Absolutely. Because the amount of tension and force that you internally produce is something that you can measure with the stick, which, I mean, it becomes this sort of esoteric idea if you don't have feedback. So for me now, having A stick that I can provide feedback in that process.

It's about the feedback.

It's about the feedback. And that's what you get the feedback when you're lifting weights. Because now I'm going up in weight, I'm increasing the load. So for me to now just increase the force production, that's an interesting idea. And nobody's really done that yet. So, yeah, that's, that's what I'm going for.

So I know at some point you'll probably attach coaching and community to Axon. One of the questions that came up in the Game Changers panel was actually two fitness pros asked questions and they're like, hey, so the panel was level, which is the acetone measurement. Heal B, which is this device that has an 85% accuracy rate for measuring protein, carbs and fat in your body, which I still still have to test out. I still have to test.

Tell me how that works.

Yeah, so it's got this gold plated sensor on the back. Yeah. But anyways, and then the third device.

Wait, I have to stop you. How many times have you heard people pitch you a product and you're like, that sounds like magic.

So much. Yeah. And I tried it. I tried it for a while and honestly, it kind of irritated. And so I asked Artem, the CEO, I'm like, when are you going to make this smaller? Because especially for all the women that are watching or listening, like, there's no way they're wearing this.

Okay. Do you remember the body bug?

Yes. I texted you a photo of that one day. Remember 1999? It used, it used to be 249 and you'd sell it with like a five pack. But it's. It's $19 now, the body.

$19?

Yeah, it's $19. The body bug was. It was probably about this big and you'd like wear it on your army.

That was on the back of your arm and like it was so visible, like you can't even cover it with your entire sleeve.

That was like the original quantified self. Early days. Like, I actually remember selling body bugs when I was a trainer in like 2006.

Yeah.

2007.

I was right there. This is like before all my clients had them. I mean, I was geeking out on that thing. And to be fair, it was pretty accurate.

It was pretty good.

It was pretty good technology.

I used it for a while and I was like, all right. I was shooting for about 2200 calories a day. Yeah.

But it was a monstrosity.

It was a monstrosity.

Yeah.

The technology's definitely advanced from there.

Like, even this is way better.

It's way better.

It's smaller. Like, now we have it just in watch form. So, I mean, I think that's. That's been the natural evolution is just to make these things more wearable and more, like, fashionable.

But one cool thing that they were talking about was the feedback. And these trainers, both these fit pros that raised their hands, they're like, we understand that measurements are great and that these numbers are great, but how do we actually integrate this about the bridge for behavior change? How do we do that? You and I talked about this with Yaron on the future of diet and exercise our last show, and I still think it rings true in 2018. I don't think we've gotten radically closer to this bridge between data and doing. I don't think we've gone there, man.

I don't think so either. And. And that's why I'm glad you brought up your run. I think he's on the right track as far as, like, his thinking and building the platform and bringing in all the health professionals and people to actually help coach and specifically take people through the process of. Okay, if I have this device that's monitoring my heart rate, if I have this device that's monitoring my blood glucose levels, how do I put all this together? Because it's so much stuff. It's so many numbers to now decipher, okay, how healthy am I really? And do I need to focus on this so much? And is that just distracting me from getting to my goals?

I think distraction is something that can come up pretty easy because just because you're wearing something, is it really going to make you change your life? Is it really going to make you change? Like, one of my favorite quotes, Dan Pardi. It's like, knowing is not the same thing as doing. And actually, if you know and you don't do, it's the same thing as not knowing.

Yeah.

So that, that rings really loud. And especially here at ces, we have all these companies that are like, well, this will change your life. Well, tell me actually, how. How will this change my life for real? And they don't always have a clear answer.

Yeah, yeah. And in, like, you've experienced too, I think people get really motivated initially.

It's novelty. They're, like, stoked on the newness.

It is. It's the newness. It's cool. Like, I saw all the momentum's really high when you first start to use it and then. But the sustainability isn't there yet. And I've noticed that with almost all products. I can't mention a product that I've used even personally that I haven't put on the shelf and forgot about because it just really, I mean it's just like anything else. Like you kind of go in waves and intermittently I'll be focused in this direction but you know, that's not going to consume, you know, my life. It's not the game changer, it's the game changer is how you sort of weave in and out of all these different things.

That's cool because the panel was called Game Changer and the one question I didn't have time to ask is if you did develop a life changing product, what would it actually be like? What would be the characteristics of a truly game changing fitness or wellness or mindfulness tech product? What do you think about that, man? Like what, what would it actually have to have? I think, I think one thing it would have to have is it would have to have a clear connection between the variety in one's life and then how do you deliver feedback on that variety on a continuous basis? That's inspiring for someone. Yeah, that's kind of like first thing.

Yeah. And I think that, I mean there's so many different things that we're going to be monitoring that if we can, if we can make that process easier for the consumer. So if they can just get a little nudge, a little notification of, okay, you've been in this, if you've been in this direction long enough now let's, let's kind of shift gears a little bit.

Yeah.

And make that process really easy, really seamless and automated to where it just gives you a little nudge in a different direction. I think that that might have staying power.

Have you been testing out any rings or do you just use Apple for like tracking?

I have not and I'm very curious to try it out.

This thing is fascinating. So actually tomorrow they're coming out with, they've already had Pre order for Gen 2, it's the Oura ring. This has been radical for me because it does give me that little nudge. So I was sleep deprived like you. We came into Vegas and it told me, don't work out today, you're sleep deprived and your body temperature has risen 1.5 degrees. And I was like, oh, that is the kind of coaching that, like continuous variable coaching that we actually need. What do you think it looks like for that continuous variable coaching? I think that's the thing that eventually the dream fitness trainer program is going to be created from.

Yeah, I think so. And I think with what we're doing with maps, we're trying to address all different interests. So we look at fitness in general. So what, like there's power lifters, there's crossfitters, there's bodybuilders, there's people just focused on wellness, there's yogis, there's all these different sort of modalities out there that exist. Let's evaluate each one of those, let's see how we can, we can condense that information and make that process more effective and now phase it. So the thing is we want to be able to get people to understand that all those different directions have merit. There's something there that's relevant to your life, the way that you're going to train your body. Now, how do you incorporate that and how do you go for a certain amount of time and then go into the next direction? And so we've been putting a lot of effort in that with our MAPS programs and trying to get to a point where, you know, I can train like a powerlifter, you know, even if I'm a yogi and what that looks like and how to do that and same thing if I have a sports direction, here's how I would do that. But I also, what would benefit me is to also train in hypertrophy. And so, but there's a, there's there's sort of a time capsule to that as far as like the adaptation process. So I think that the smarter we get, we're going to understand how our body adapts and then how we optimize that in order to kind of keep that progress going forward so we don't hit those plateaus.

And you know what's crazy too man, is you know, you'll get this data and it'll be this mirror like a check in for you and you'll actually have to look at how you're showing up. That's where the real change occurs. Like for example, my OURA ring was like, you slept four hours and 29 minutes, bitch. You need to get more sleep.

You get it? To talk shit to you like that?

Yeah, I actually programmed it so to be more real, more authentic. No, it didn't say that. But I thought to myself, okay, this is something that I could actually check in with every day. But you know, actually, you know, having real time feedback, it doesn't give that like the OURA ring doesn't give real time Sleep, feedback. You can't. You can't necessarily look at and be like, this is how I'm showing up in this moment. But honestly, I don't know how important that would be over the long haul. Because if you're doing something as a life change, maybe it's just checking about what you did yesterday so you can improve today. Maybe that's really it, man.

I think that's it. Yeah. And it's just evaluating your current state of stress and all the variables. Right. So I think that's been my issue with seeing a lot of tech products, is like, yeah, you can measure that, but what are all the other variables contributing to that? So maybe on paper it looks good, but you're not considering all these other factors. And so once we can kind of consider all these different factors and variables and put it all together as the best plan, I think, you know, we're going to get closer to that.

How does this apply to sex? You went by this sex tech booth. What was the sex? We did not.

Yeah, I don't.

I don't.

I guess it was sex. It was like. It was a very creepy, very.

There's some weird here at cs.

I'm like, are these. Are these robots? What am I working with here? Like, tell me about it. And they even had, like, some models kind of. Kind of trying to. Trying to get you to go into this. This booth. And. And it was all mysterious, and I was trying to talk to them like a human being, and they were talking to me like this automated robot. And I think it was all part of the act. And.

Yeah.

You know, this. This sort of facade that they're putting out there that they got this new wave technology that it's, you know, we're so advanced that, you know, you're going to live forever.

Marketing. It's marketing at its worst and best.

Yeah.

Right.

And I think that it's an attention grab. So it obviously worked. I'm talking about it right now.

Yeah, that's true. We're talking. It worked. You got us.

Yeah, you got me.

You totally got us.

I mean, it was. It was interesting. I. I have no idea what it is with the technology is. They said something about stacking these chips and in your spine.

All right, let's talk about this. What if you had pheromone chips that were impregnated in your skin that would allow you to be. To become irresistible to the opposite sex?

I don't just let anybody. What a cluster f. You know what I mean?

Now you're right.

That's true.

Interesting.

You gotta wine and dine me first.

Just a little bit. But what if you had a chip that was in your skin that released pheromone scent and you just like go next to a girl's club? Is it cheating? That's. It's pretty much cheating.

Yeah.

I think that takes out the old school reciprocity of I'm going to talk to you and learn who you are. No, you're just going to smell my chip.

Yeah. I think it makes sense that a lot of these nerds are thinking like that.

I think so.

Because they don't want to know social interaction.

They don't want to do the hard work of like, of like getting down with the personal self.

No, man. You know my move, it was always like I would come by and then I would just like spill a drink on myself or whatever and like.

Were you self deprecating?

Yes.

How did you meet your wife?

What was that guy?

How did you meet your wife?

So actually I met her in the gym, which.

Oh, of course. Of course you did.

Whoops.

This is the other Justin Jordan Shallow. Jordan Shallow met his wife in the gym.

He did. Okay.

Yeah.

I feel a little better then.

Okay.

Yeah.

So what were you doing? Were you doing bicep curls?

Yeah, no, I actually. So I cold called and there's all this list of potential people that got personal training at the gym and I was a new trainer at the time and so I was cold calling all these potential clients and got her in and we just had this sort of rapport between the two of us. And at the time she, she had a boyfriend and all this kind of stuff. Wow. And of course I wasn't gonna let that stop me, you know, like, so I, I just kind of tried to work my charms. It took a long time to get her attention, so I put some work in there.

Man. Is she tech minded as well? Like, is there cool gadgets in your house? No. Okay.

Like, not at all. Like I'm setting up all her stuff for her and she still would be rocking like a razor right now if it wasn't for me. Oh, yes.

This came up yesterday a lot because I noticed that moms specifically have almost like an. A majority of moms. But I'm not saying, by the way, I'm not saying all women do. I've just noticed in my own experience so that nobody slays me. I've just noticed in my own experience that a lot of moms out there have actually written like in our community groups. Yeah, I'm Just, I just don't want to do it. It's too hard. The technology is too hard. How much do you think story about something being too hard plays into people actually using tech for their lives, for the better?

Story plays into it.

Yeah, like, oh, I can't do this. Or you know what, I'm just going to breathe and actually see if it works.

Yeah, yeah, I think it, yeah, that's, that's sort of the barrier that a lot of companies face.

You know, how do I make this easy for them?

Yeah, because you really have to do, you do have to consider, I guess, the, the measure with that. I think somebody said it was like a 5 year old has to be able to use it or understand it.

Perfect.

That's almost the level you have to get to with these products. So, you know, like my, my 4 year old even is, is pretty intuitive. It's, it's, it's kind of creepy.

It's kind of scary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He can grab my phone and he gets it and he knows where, right. Where to go. So I think that, yeah, that's the goal is to always make something. It's an immediate process. Like I just push this. Something happens, it's already charged up. You see how they have to ship everything already charged. Like if, dude, imagine if you got a new product and you're so excited about it, but now you have to wait a couple hours for it to.

Charge or it doesn't work. What's the worst, the worst thing that could ever happen is you buy something, you take it home, you unwrap it and this doesn't work. Oh, and this doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Imagine the reviews it's going to be.

It's like so heartbreaking. And, and maybe that's why, maybe that's why a lot of parents out there and they buy something, it doesn't work. They're like, no, I'm done. Yeah, I'll never, I'll never even give it another shot.

I'm sure, I'm sure that happens all the time. Like if it doesn't work right then like you, you literally can kill that experience.

One little second can take away five years of R D and, and probably millions of dollars.

It's a rough business.

It's a. Being in technology is a hard business.

It's very.

My heart goes out to a lot of these people there because I'm looking at their stuff and I'm like, this ain't gonna work. This. There's, there is no way you could explain this to someone and have it.

Actually shift gears a little bit and talk about business.

Let's. Let's shift gears.

Okay, let's. Okay, so what is this? Because I'm walking around, I'm looking at all these, like, mega booths. Like they've built houses inside this hundred.

Thousand dollar booths, right? Or more.

Okay, I'm not seeing. Okay, I'm seeing a lot of representatives that are kind of explaining it and trying to get people under the vision of what the product's going to provide. But I'm not seeing a lot of business happening. I'm not seeing a lot of, okay, I will take X amount of orders or, you know, there's no exchanges happening. There's just a whole lot of check out my cool shit. And I'm wondering how effective that is. So I actually noticed that Fitbit, they're just there for sales meetings and they have it all exclusive to that. And so I'm wondering if they kind of experience that with ces. This is very much of a display. Like, look at what I have. This is sort of a fashion show, as you said earlier.

I'm so glad we're talking about this because probably I would say 95% of the people watching or listening maybe will never go to ces. So you and I are going to give, like, the inside scoop right now. There was some bullshit there, and I think a lot of it was like, gorilla chest beating, look how dope we are, look how cool we are. But it necessarily wasn't about the human conversation about how this makes people's lives better. And I've always felt this, too. It's like, we're here, I'm here to find out, well, what's real? What's the truth about this stuff? How does this actually uplift you? How does this actually make your life better? And I think if you look across the floor, man, it's not a lot. It's probably, I'm going to say, like 25% or less of the products there's that are relevant.

But the thing is, the passion's there and I get that as an entrepreneur and trying to develop my own product personally and going into all the pitfalls that, that, you know, like just trying to market it is a beast, because who is your market? Like, they're trying to find all this stuff out. So, you know, I get it. But it's to be able to take your product and go into a place like CES and show and display it, that's going to cost you quite a lot of money. And I'm not sure that that's the move until you have that audience established already. So.

Because the money you might spend, let's say you spend a hundred thousand dollars in gorilla chest beating and having a nice booth. What if you took that 100k and you applied it towards creating a 30 person beta group that you filmed and documented the whole time, right? I mean you could, you could, with a hundred thousand dollars, you could make a really cool documentary video. You could, of 30 people, right? Give them cameras at their house, have them do check ins. Like, I think that's the way to humanize technology. And I think there's. So, you know, who said this yesterday or it was actually Dave Chappelle. We were watching the Dave Chappelle thing and he's like, it's hard to see everything about an elephant when you're this close to the penis skin. You got to pull back a little bit. I think that's what we're seeing here. It's like these guys and gals are so close to the tech. I mean it's literally, it's right here and they're just like, well, how can we make it better? And they can't, they don't actually know how to make it better.

God, the, the feedback is everything. I mean if they can sort of step out and get that bird's eye view of like what's really going on as far as like how people are responding to their product, I think that they're going to be better off. So I think, yeah, test groups and.

Well, you do this with maps. Didn't you guys do somewhat of a beta or three or four before you launched it? You got feedback and that's how you iterate stuff.

Absolutely.

Program development or technology design, same iteration.

We have a running forum that constantly gives us feedback back. I mean whatever we come up with. So it's, it's the most valuable asset we have as our company and we, we know that and so we always try and foster them and treat them, you know, with respect and give, give to them constantly. So I, I found that was one of the, the, the best things that we did and that's what we did. Right. And you know, it's the same thing, you know, so with Axon, I kind of realized like this is, this is, this is going to take some time. This is going to take some time to build the tribe.

You're so patient, man.

Oh, it's kills me inside because I'm not like, I'm not a patient person, but I just know that I have to do it this way because I need the relevance. I need the data, I need the test groups to provide the usage. So how are they using it? How is it benefiting their lives? I can't really. I can't tell and command you that. You have to tell me that. And then I have to work, you know, into that. So I think that's the mentality that's. That's shifted because I know the relevance of it because I've trained, you know, thousands of people and I know exactly how I would use it. But guess what? Like, I'm not going to sell it unless I speak to you and how you see the relevance of it. So I'm trying to find that out.

I love the word relevance because I think a lot of this tech might not be relevant to where people actually are. In other words, in the stages of behavior change, you have that like, contemplation phase and then you have like, oh, I'm gonna do research. And then you have a third wave where it's like, okay, I'm gonna execute a strategy to implement this in my life. So it's like stages of the lifestyle change. And when it comes to most tech out here, I almost feel like they're skipping the first two stages. They're not really allowing people to go through the discovery process. There's no onboarding sequence. Right. Even. Even Fitbit, I don't feel like there's a teaching protocol or there's. There's no AI to guide you through it. And a lot of these programs I think or has done a pretty damn good job, man. Yeah, I really like their app.

I like, connected to them.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we just, we had the, we had the CEO, Petra Latila, and. Cool name, by the way. I practiced saying that.

And I was going to say, you just. I practice that.

The Finnish have crazy names. The Finnish have really interesting names for pronunciation. But anyways, we talked about this and he was like, people don't need a lot. Yeah, just give somebody something like one. One little. Like you said, nudge. One little gem for your day. Just breathe more today. Drink more.

Isn't that it? We're already overstimulated. Why do we need to bombard people? We just need to simplify things.

Beautifully stated. So this onboarding, this kind of learning curve, what do you think that looks like, man? I mean, for anything, right? It's got to be something where it's intuitive. Daily kind of touches, not just blanket sweeping. Make sure today you smile. It's like, what does that even Mean, sleep well tonight. Okay.

Right, Okay. I mean, you could get like, specifics.

Yes, yes.

So I think that providing, you know, something that's measuring your breathing or measuring your actual sleep patterns, like, you could be a little more specific as to maybe the timing of it or maybe the ritual going into, you know, the process of getting. Getting into sleep. So, you know, like. Like shutting down the electronics, like dimming the lights, like going through the actual stages in the process of preparation to make the quality better. So I think that that's another avenue that people just completely dismiss.

I think that in the future, the successful lifestyle change programs are truly going to be comprehensive programs where there's a coach, there's a wearable, there's a. So it's like coach, wearable, community. They're all integrated there. Or Axon or whatever it is. Like Oura Ring, even this Gobi, Right. The healbee device. It's like, I think people are really device focused and I think that actually is the downfall. Yeah, this, this integration of all three.

It's challenging though, you know, And I think. And yeah, there's going to be. There's going to be companies that have a cool product that they can sort of control their own community with. But even bigger than that, based off of all these different variables and all these different directions we could go if we have like a centralized sort of hub. I don't know if it's an Apple or a Google or somebody like that, that's really creating that atmosphere to integrate all the tools. And that way you can get the simple cue of where maybe your deficiencies lie. Maybe that's the move. Maybe that's what we're going to see in the future. I don't know. But I definitely like the simplicity, but the complexity of understanding all that biofeedback. I love getting and aggregating all that data because it excites me. I'm like, wow, that's what I'm doing. You just learn so much about yourself.

Why does it excite you, though? Is it because you know that once you see it, you can change?

Yeah, well, that's exactly. Like, I didn't know that. And you know, to see that, that maybe, like, I can't produce that much force. So this is something with my own product. I'm like, wow, like that. That. That's crazy to me. And I could, I could see, like immediately if I put focus there, I can improve. And it's almost like that across the board with like, maybe I wasn't sleeping that well. Now I could See, just by focusing on this, how much I've already improved.

What do you think about the calm technology, the meditation technology? Today when we go on the floor, I'm really focused on the emotional stuff. Like, what are the stress trackers out there? We haven't even explored that yet. It's probably in, like, the Upper East Wing that we haven't.

Yeah, I blazed through. I was on a hustle.

There's so much there.

So consume. It was.

It was too much because I look at Muse and like, you know, I used Muse for a long time, and I've actually just now I'm all focused on, you know, naked meditation in front of the joov light, which. Thanks for the introduction to Joov. That was so fun.

Isn't it great?

So I've been loving waking up and getting warm and getting that photo biomodulation. I'm surprised Joov isn't here.

You know what I was expecting?

They deserve to be here.

Yeah. Yeah. And we actually missed Halo Sport as well. I guess they were representing here and we didn't even see them. So shout out to them. But yeah, Juv Juve has been. It's been interesting. And it's one of those things that, like, I just have noticed the more I use it, I just feel I can tangibly feel a little bit different.

I think for me, I just get like this little pump. Wake up.

Yeah. It helps kind of like activate everything.

Right. And now photobiomodulation. I don't know too much about it, by the way. I don't see any photobiomodulation companies here at all. There's no red light companies. This is a totally different experience than Bulletproof.

I know Ben Greenfield's going crazy with that. With that, all that.

He's kind of like eccentric fringe man.

I just was shoving things in my nose.

He attaches leads to his balls.

Photoreceptors in my nose.

It's interesting. I just feel like he's. He's the fringe. But then, you know what? He's just making people ask questions. I love it.

I love the guy.

Isn't that really what it is? So what else have you noticed about recovery, man? Because Mercola talked about Joovv and photobiomodulation for recovery. He loves it.

Right. And that was sort of a pitch that was interesting to me, which after doing a super intensified workout, then kind of using the Joovv as, you know, like a way to kind of accelerate the process of recovery. And, you know, I've experimented a few times. Needed to Do a little more experimentation with that specifically. But I, it was interesting. Like I did notice I probably wasn't quite as. As sore and, and felt like my CNS kind of was okay the next day. It wasn't too bad, so I wasn't too overloaded.

Are you interested in the stress tracking stuff?

I am interested in it, yeah.

Have you done any research on that or what do you know about it at this point?

I honestly that I haven't even ventured into that direction yet.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, there's a few devices and I think it's really around the temporal lobe. That's where they're getting the readings. I just don't know. It's pretty general if you get something at the wrist, at the radial. Right. Because heart rate's one thing, but how do you blend? I think it's blending heart rate, skin temperature. It's actually listening to your nervous system and seeing when the pendulum is swinging, either sympathetic or parasympathetic. And then they're making some kind of algorithm prediction on what state you're in as far as stress.

Okay, so now this is different than hrv?

I think so. But, but like this is what I'm interested in checking out today. So I'll definitely make sure that I put this information out to the community.

Yeah, no, I'm totally interested in that. So I'd love to hear your feedback on all that stuff because I, I've experimented a little bit with HRV and just trying to get, you know, use that with my clients and kind of see tangibly like, you know, what I'm working with for that day. So I have them like get their reading in the morning and give me that feedback. And it's been, you know, for the most part it's been somewhat accurate as far as like how they feel. Feel and what their performance is.

Yeah.

But also too, you know, there's those variables that interrupt that process. Like they didn't get enough sleep. Like, you know, somebody said something that set them off and now, you know, they're in a totally different state.

They got in a fight with their husband or wife the night before.

So it's not super reliable.

What do you think? Dr. Andy Galpin, he wrote Unplugged along with three other authors. We both interviewed him on our show. Yeah. What do you think he would react to here? I think he'd be triggered and fascinated at the same time because he's, he's not anti technology. He just wrote his whole book about like rewiring your brain to connect back with your.

Probably one of the most balanced, measured guys, like scientist minds I've, I've met. So yeah, I would be fascinated to hear him break everything down because, you know, there's with, with a cool direction that a company's going. There's also caution.

Yeah.

So I think that he's a great person to kind of evaluate, you know, potential risks, you know, long term with some of these devices versus like, you know, like what we should really be focusing on too and do things intuitively. So yeah, I think, I think he would be, he would be hesitant to really buy into anything here and all their promises.

But also for anyone watching or listening, I mean they get to have healthy skepticism. I think I heard that from Chris Kresser, like the healthy skeptic. Be skeptical about tech. Don't just, absolutely don't just buy all these things. If you have income, you know, some extra income, hold on to it and make sure that you invest it in something you can really trust, like do your diligence.

Somewhat parallels the supplement industry.

That's a beautiful contrast, don't you think?

Because like everything I've seen with the supplement industry, I mean it can get way out there. Like you can get people that come up with products that are just, I mean, don't put that in your body, please. And they're just making all kinds of claims. They're giving you who the hell knows what you're getting because it's not regulated sometimes. So. But there are good products out there and there are things that are actually relevant.

Sure.

It's the same thing. It's. Tech is one of those, those new, it's sort of the new way to optimize your body. So now we're interested in this direction. But it has all the same, same signs and same sort of cautionary tales I would put out there with supplements.

I heard somebody say at a panel, it's the, it's still the wild, wild west when it comes to fitness and wellness tech. And I think that's probably the most truthful statement out there. There's a vetting process, I think for me, I've actually just purchased things on Amazon. This is kind of a little hack purchase on Amazon. Try it out, give it the full experience though. Join the person's community that the manufacturer's community actually give it a shot and then if you don't like it after a month, ship it back, send it back. Hard to do that though, if you, if you buy it from the person's website.

Yeah, yeah. Isn't that, yeah. That's an interesting process. They've. They've basically made it so like Amazon is the place you go. Like you, like, like you said as a consumer. I mean, let's talk about the review process. Does a brand really matter to you these days or is it more the reviews of the brand?

It's so funny. We're going back to tribal sharing. Like, what does your tribe think? Okay, I'll try it. Yeah, it's like social contagion at the lowest level. And Amazon has become almost like the social contagion lens. Yeah, it's the one where everybody goes to give reviews and figure things out.

Right now, as a consumer, I love it.

But check this out, though. There's a lot of people that leave fake reviews. The companies pay people and they have these bots that leave fake reviews on.

Amazon all over the place.

So then how can we trust it? And actually, I remember the three of us. Sal actually mentioned this. I think. No, Adam talked about, like, how they're superimposing people's faces and now it's like we don't even know if that's really the person online anymore. We're there right now. I mean, the technology exists where you don't actually know if it's a real person or a real, you know, the robots leaving comments. Yeah, we're in such a crazy time. What are we doing? I don't know where exactly are we?

It could get. Yeah, you can go down a rabbit hole with that for sure. But I think that overall, you see the process of how they try and regulate. And I know we actually talked to Mike Matthews about his experience with.

Who's Mike Matthews?

Mike Matthews is an author. He. Bigger, Stronger, faster, I think.

Oh, the documentary film.

No, so I think I said that wrong. It's very similar to that title.

But not the film.

Yeah, not the film. It's a book. And he's one of those guys in the fitness space that not many people know unless you are, you know, into his books. He's written a few books. He also has a supplement line that he's. I mean, he's. He's a very intelligent guy and he's. He's put a lot of effort into, like, the screening process of quality. So, I mean, I'm not going to plug his. His supplements too hard here. But at the same time, like, he's a great guy. He does, he does great stuff. But. But he has, has really found his place on Amazon and how to really, like, make his whole business revolve around Amazon and Click funnels. And he's sort of the master of online marketing, which is great because he's making great money. But not a lot of people in our space know of him, but consumers are buying his products. So it's an interesting thing. There's a lot of opportunities out there, but he's, he's just another one of those sort of pioneers that have really mastered the online marketing piece and getting his information out there. But he's gone through all these different processes of like gangsters out there that have deliberately sabotaged some of his products and wrote a terrible review.

I can imagine.

And they've said something to the fact of like this has caused some kind of ailment. And so right away Amazon will just dump your product. So now all of a sudden your product doesn't exist on Amazon. You're losing, you know, thousands of dollars per day that you would have got otherwise. So I mean, yeah, you're going to run into problems like that too.

So, so maybe supplements, I loved how you brought that up too because the supplement and tech industry, they're really side by side. They can both be altered by like positive, negative reviews really fast. So maybe for the vetting process, it's just about pressure and time. That's how you form a freaking diamond. Okay? Coal charcoal turns into a diamond after like thousands of years in pressure. Same thing possibly with supplement companies and technology as well.

So that's interesting. As a business owner, you love the early adopters. I mean, that's your people.

Yeah, right.

And it's, it's, it's tough because like me as a consumer, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell people, wait it out. You know, version two is always going to be better and never by the.

First year of any car.

Yeah, they're going to get all the bugs clear and all that kind of stuff. But you know, if you want a product to exist really bad, you know, you want to be that early adopter, you want to help contribute to that. And so yeah, it's an interesting thing because there's, I'm, I'm sort of split with that some products, like, I just really want this to exist. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna put my money in that direction and hope that it helps to contribute and get it out to market. But at the same time I'm like, I know it's not going to be perfect, man. Not going to have everything figured out.

The long term aspects of, I think where we're going like this year above all years. I really do believe that technology and people's awareness, everything that's going on, we're kind of in this almost like tornado where it is leveling up consciousness. How do you think that technology will help consciousness? Make people wake up, make people more aware, give people greater intelligence about their emotional self, their body.

I think that it's really just going to help people be more present. So if we can, if we can be more focused on, you know, what I'm doing currently right now in this moment, if those devices help to kind of get you to that state, then it's going to help the overall consciousness. So I'm going to be here, I'm going to be present, I'm going to know, you know, how to navigate a little more effectively throughout my day. I'm going to have better relationships with people because I'm actually going to be focused in talking to you versus on my phone and just like being drawn away from that process. So I think that it's sort of a double edged sword. Some people could get into the consumption part of it, which will take away or some people can learn how to refrain and just use the data to contribute towards a better focus.

Technology, addiction. I know that if I'm not conscious and not aware, I will definitely go to laziness and addiction myself, period. So it's about also intentionality. Don't just get the device and then think, oh my life's going to change because of this device. You still actually get to look at the fabric of your emotional self. Yeah, right. Like who you really are, your personality type. We had Heidi Forbes ost, she's a PhD. She wrote this book called Mastering the Digital Self. And we just had her on the podcast and she talked about technology typing. Like what kind of technology type are you? Are you an abstainer? Are you somebody that attributes technology to pain? There was like four, four other different categories. And then she really talked about gratitude. You know, having curiosity and gratitude for the technology is just as important as using it itself. How many times have you been like angry at a device and like throwing it on the ground, you know, or like people that beat, they're not actually respecting the technology and they wonder why their relationship with it is so shitty. It's cause like well you're not, you're not actually having gratitude for these incredible tools that we have now. Like can you just be grateful? Can you just be grateful about where we are?

Everything so much easier for me. Ah, I hate you. But you didn't work this one time.

Yeah, what Are you most stoked on then for tech? I think for, I think for me it is around the emotional part because I think physically, man, physically is where the, everything happens. But then after you get the physical under wraps, it has to go to the emotional.

Yeah, it has to go. I mean you have to be balanced in that, in that for sure. I think. Yeah. The emotional end of it. I could totally see people that haven't, don't have a great sort of handle on that and they're not balanced emotionally. They're going to react to technology, you know, violently and they're going to have that sort of experience because it's like they're not emotionally balanced to begin with. So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think that, I think that's, that's, that's always. You see that a lot online too. You see where most like interactions with comments and you know, where all the trolls are coming from. It's this knee jerk reaction. It's this immediate emotional response that I feel people need to really check themselves on. Like what's triggering that? Like what's, why are you responding that way? And so if I'm smashing my phone into the ground, if I'm breaking my TV and you know, like, where's, where's your emotional state?

Or even if you're just like, okay, I'm done with this and then you just drop it on the floor. Like you're not really respecting it.

Yeah.

And it's not that you, it's not that you have to respect the technology. It's just like, well, you know, how you do one thing is kind of how you do everything. So if you're not really respecting your tech, then you're probably maybe. Where does that show up in your relationship with your wife or your husband or your kids?

Right. I'm sure it's a direct reflection.

Let's wrap it with family tech, man. We see baby tech there. We see everything about smart home connected. Are you stoked on anything? Family tech?

You know, I, so I definitely use baby monitors and stuff like that because I was in that, that was, that was essential because we had, you know, my kids were downstairs and so it's kind of cool to have an extra set of ears and eyes and stuff like that, you know, in the crib and. But at the same time I could just see like how we just get like so obsessed with. Okay, it's almost, it almost feeds into that hover. Hovercraft.

The helicopter.

Helicopter parent.

Yeah, exactly, the helicopter parenting.

It's like now I have a teddy bear that's like monitoring, you know, their every play. You know, it just, it just gets too invasive, you know, like I just see so many.

I was just picturing the teddy bear you're talking about. It's kind of freaky, right?

It's like Teddy Ruxpin, but like creepier, you know?

Did you have a Teddy Ruxpin when you were a kid?

Hell yeah.

I love Teddy Bespin.

I had that and a glow worm and all that. Yeah, I'm just gonna throw out there Cabbage Patch Kid.

Cabbage Patch cards. Okay, yeah, yeah, cards, definitely.

Actually, it was more Garbage Pail Kids.

Oh, that's true.

That was. Wait, that was the manly version.

Was it?

Cat?

Did Cabbage Patch Kids have cards?

I don't think so.

Okay. I don't think so either.

I don't think so.

So I have two nieces, two and four. And I could, I could definitely say that they're really good when it comes to technology. Like both of them, they can get an iPad and be like, like, oh, I'm gonna get the WI fi. Like my 4 year old niece can connect to WI fi on her own.

Right? Okay. So there's a lot of things, and we talk about this all the time on Mind Pump, just how we're going to deal with this going forward, how we're going to deal with this ease of access to technology and how obsessed people are with the devices and where we put sort of boundaries and put that in place so they get a certain time limit with this. Because the thing is, this stuff is not going away. And once we sort of figure out how to use them more effectively, I think that's sort of my focus as a parent. I'm trying to restrict as long as I can because I want that like, like face to face interaction with their friends and with us and, you know, establish that, you know, that, that sort of time, that precious time that you get growing up. But at the start, because I see both, I can see the convenience factor. So if I'm out in public and I just want to give them an iPad to watch a movie, I know that it's sort of an easy way for them to just be focused on that. And I know they're not going to be breaking something over here and getting crazy. But at the same time, I try as hard as I can not to have that be the go to and to sort of make sure that they're, they're growing and they're growing through movement. Because another very underrated process of learning is you know, that, that kinetic learning, that, that, that experience where, you know, they're climbing, they're. They're grabbing rocks and dirt and they're being out in nature. And, you know, that for me, that's really important. And so I feel like technology is. That's one of those things that's always going to be there. And so I want to, like, just slowly introduce them because they're already getting in school, everybody's on an iPad doing their projects. And, you know, and I want them to be able to excel in school and be able to use these, these devices effectively, but at the same time, you know, I want them to have, like, to experience that, that, that real world, like connectivity with, with other people and.

Yeah.

You know, and have relationships.

Well, then maybe at this family tech section, we'll find kind of like almost a magician or some kind of articulation of how all these families can use the tech without it becoming so addictive. Because the brains of children are raw. And look at what happened with tobacco when they went to court. Big Foods going to court soon. And eventually I think big tech will go to court as well because the writing's on the wall. But when kids are 10 and under, the brain is primed for learning. It's like play DOH at that point. So you get, you get Facebook that wants to build this new platform for young kids. Talking about family tech and integration of that. I don't know the ramifications of having a special platform for kids under 10 for Facebook. Like, what the hell's going on?

Yeah, I know, and I, I think you're right because it's engineered in there. The addictive properties get them while they're young or engineered. Yeah.

This is what happened with Sugar in the, in the 30s and 40s and 50s with the, with the ads on TV.

Yeah.

So how is it any different from technology? Crisp, you did that really well, man.

Yeah, there's. If you ever watched all the Man. And I still, like, as a parent now I'm seeing all these commercials for, like, sugary cereals and stuff.

It is like, it's gotta trigger, it's gotta trigger the. Out of you.

Oh, my God, I can't believe it. All the flashing bright colors and, you know, this crazy toucan, you know, crackhead bird that comes out and tries to pitch you these shitty, you know, fruit cereal. It's just pure sugar. Yeah, it's. Man, it's just hard. It's hard because, yeah, I do see tech, you know, having those same problems that we're all going to have to face, you know, as parents and what to do about that, so.

Well, a lot of law of duality is present, man. As technology rises, there's always going to be the crazy, evil, gnarly stuff. And then on the other side of the coin, there's these beautiful things that can change lives, and they're always there. It's always there. I love talking to you, man.

Hey, man, you get me.

I. I totally get you. And. And it's been so fun to get to know you over this past, like, gosh, like, year and a half almost, right?

Yeah, exactly. I know. It's. It's refreshing because, yeah, I don't get to talk a lot about technology and. And my passions in that direction on the show, too. So it's great to kind of riff with somebody who's, like, sort of in that same mindset as me. And, yeah, we had a great time here at ces, so we definitely plan on coming back next year and sort of doing it, maybe add another day this time and really be able to kind of take our time with it.

We'll see if we can come here to the Velvet Pad of Destiny as well, or whatever we called it. The Lab, the Lavender Dome.

It's. It creates a nice vibe.

It is a good vibe in here. So if you have questions, let us know. I'm sure we'll link this in videos and social and everything else. What do you guys want to know about yourself and technology and everything else that's going on as we see this evolutionary curve be completely surpassed by Moore's Law and everything else? Yeah. What do we miss, man? What do we miss that people should really know about tech in 2018?

That's a great question. What did we miss?

I mean, we probably missed some stuff, but, yeah, I think for me, it's like, just make sure your intentionality entertainment.

But, yeah, whatever.

Yeah, that's obvious, I think. Just make sure your intentionality is correct. Like, make sure that, you know before you do the device or the app or the platform, check in with yourself of actually, what do you want to create first? What's your intentionality behind that?

Absolutely.

I think so.

Thanks for having me on, man.

Thanks, man.

Appreciate it.

Josh and Justin saying goodbye from CES 2018. We'll talk to you soon.