Justin Donald | Why Wellness Is A Pentagon: The Art of Lifestyle Investing | @Wellness + Wisdom

To be a lifestyle investor, you're in charge of your life. You're in charge of building an incredible life that can support itself based on income coming in. So instead of working for a paycheck, working for a business, working for your business, why not buy assets that produce income? Those assets cover the cost of life. Well, now your choices become better quality choices. Your problems become better quality problems. You don't have to worry about, can I cover my bills? Can I put food on the table? Can I support my family? Now it's, hey, where do I want to spend my time?

Justin, welcome to the show, dude.

So great to be here.

Thanks for being here at my house. We did some, some hoppes. The first time you've done that.

That's right.

How was that experience? It was really interesting.

Yeah. You know, the, the first few minutes of it are just incredibly intense. Yeah. Especially for someone that hasn't really, you know, done anything with that before. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, today is really special for me because as I've had a son and my audience knows this, we're really focused on wealth, on financial intelligence, which is, let's face it, it's not something that all parents know how to teach, man. So you're the author of the Lifestyle Investor, which is a book that I've read cover to cover. One of my favorite chapters right here is Just going through the motions. So we're not going to go through just the motions today. Tell people, if they don't know anything about you, who are you? In a nutshell? I'm sure it's a big ass nutshell, but tell people the small version of if they just met, you know, what do you, what do you stand for in the world? And, and how do you serve?

Sure. Yeah, Great question. Pretty powerful question. I actually love asking people this question because I'm always curious of people's story, who they are, not what do you do? Yeah, but who are you?

That's the classic party question. What do you do? AKA how do you make your money?

That's right.

It's more like, how do you serve?

That's right.

What do you do in the world to help people?

That's right. So for me, I just, I love people. I'm a relationship guy. So if I can serve in a capacity of just connecting with people, I love that. If I can, you know, offer any wisdom that I've gained, either because I took the hard fall and I learned that way, or just because I had good experiences, you know, either way is good. My real goal and mission is to help people buy their time back. So my what. What I've noticed is most people are kind of a slave to something. They're slave to, I don't know, the job they have to the business that they've built. Maybe they wanted autonomy and freedom and they built this business that maybe gave them more of that than when they are, you know, an employee. And now all of a sudden, the business owns them. And so I just see a lot of entrepreneurs on this treadmill that they can't get off where, you know, maybe they're making more, but they're owned by, you know, in some way, shape or form. They've got golden handcuffs either to the lifestyle that they currently live, the lifestyle that they want to have. Some people are a slave to security and routine and what is known and are scared of the unknown. So my goal is to really help people see that there's a way that they can buy their time back to spend it on the things that matter most, the people that matter most, the things that bring them joy and passion and give them energy. You know, there are always things that we do that are like this leech to the time. Like, it's. It's so hard to do. It's like it just sucks the energy out of you. But there's conversely the things that people do that just give them life and they just shine. And so most people, I feel like, don't carve out that time. They're too busy going through life, reacting, responding, autopilot. This, you know, thing happen. Let me take care of it, let me address it. Versus proactively creating a life by design that is empowering, exciting, just compelling, a. A passion to. To live and to lead and to serve.

Yeah. And. And I think now it's more attractive than ever because of, you know, how whatever your views are, I think what's been going on for the past two years is a psychology experiment. We're kind of weeding out, like, who are the ones that are mentally strong and that can be controlled versus who are the ones that really want to have a life by design. And I think when you look at cash flow and you just look at the financial intelligence that's needed right now is a really pivotal time. We see the gap widening between those that have intelligence around money and those that don't. How would you even define financial intelligence? It's a word that you and I have heard a bunch. But to be truly intelligent when it comes to your money and finances, you're a serial entrepreneur. You have a ton of Investments, you have a cut code background. Like, you've been in the game for a long time. So how would you define someone who is financially intelligent? Like, what would that be?

Well, that's an interesting question because you have people in the conventional system that would consider themselves financially intelligent. But to me, if you're, if you don't own your time, then you're missing a big component, right? So maybe you're financially intelligent, but you, you're just rich or you have, like, great income. But what if that income owns you? I know a lot of people that make a lot of money, but the money owns them and the success owns them or ego owns them. So to me, financial intelligence is, you know, partially, hey, do you know how to make money? And do you have enough to cover what it is, you know, what your lifestyle costs you? And then do you have enough to invest and save? Beyond that, do you have money for a rainy day, just in case? But I think the next tier of financial intelligence is really, what do you want out of life? And are your finances serving it? So you can have all the money in the world, but if you're a slave to money or if you're trying to keep up with, you know, the next person, you're not really experiencing what true financial freedom provides. So to me, financial intelligence is like, step number one, do you have enough money to cover what it is that you want to do? And step number two is, do you have the money to serve you and allow you to use your gifts the way that you've been created and to help other people and to live a life that is just totally enjoyable, where you can spend time on the things that you just love to do.

Some people have heard of Abraham Maslow's work. You know, the hierarchy of needs, and at the bottom is, like, safety and security. It's, hey, like you're talking, do I have enough money to have a roof over my head? Are my kids fed? Like, are we okay on like a, like a sacral chakra level? And it's funny because I see so many people that are in marketing, and we're in the marketing world, I guess you could say. Would you consider your line of work to be marketing as well as education?

Yeah, I guess there's a certain element that is marketing.

You have to be a marketer to really succeed in this world now.

Yeah, but at the end of the, my goal is not the marketing angle. It's not to grow the biggest thing. I really just want to make sure that I'm living a life that's in alignment with what I have set forth, Meaning I've carved out time to figure out what I want and am I purposefully living that life, and in turn, am I helping other people to do that as well? So there's a marketing angle, but at the end of the day, if my group stays small, if my impact stays small, that is totally fine to me. I don't feel like I need to, you know, maximize. I'm trying to get out of this world of maximizing and optimizing, and I think that a lot of people, like, that's the rally cry. Did you get every last maximization out? Did you wring the rag dry? Did you get the best deal you possibly could and you're. You totally, like, crushed it at the negotiation table? Or did you get a great deal where everyone wins and everyone feels good about it? Right. You don't have to get everything out of it.

Yeah. You have these commandments which are in the book, and obviously we're not gonna be able to go deep in all of them. But the one that I love the most, and I told you this when we had brunch, it was always negotiate. And no matter if you're an intrapreneur, like you're in a company and you want to go to the next level, or you're buying a house or you're negotiating a podcast sponsorship, or whatever it is, this piece about not just accepting what is given to you when you go to a deal or when you go to get a raise or when you go to get anything financially, do you feel like with your students and even yourself when it comes to this commandment of always negotiate, does it have a direct correlation with someone's worth with how they feel about themselves? In other words, they go to the table. If they don't love themselves, they're probably not going to be able to negotiate.

Yeah, I think some of it probably has to do with that, you know, self worth, self image. But I think some of it has to do with confidence in their skill set to do anything. I think some people don't even know that this is a negotiation. Anything, everything is a negotiation. And it's not, again, to maximize. If you're getting offered something, it's probably a good deal for them. That's why they're offering it to you. That doesn't mean it's a good deal to you. To them, it's a good deal. But how do you make it a good deal to you? Maybe it is. Maybe what they offer is a great deal. And you can just take it. But instead of just taking it, why don't you think through and say, hey, am I winning? Like, does this feel good to me? Am I going to resent this later on? Or is there something else I should be going for? So again, it's not maximization, but yeah, how do we get to something that really is a good win win on both sides of the equation?

You learned this when you were seven. You had a door to door paper route.

Seventh grade. Seventh grade, seventh grade. By the way, I wish I was doing this at seven. That would be amazing.

Okay, there's a little bit of age discrepancy there. So you're in seventh grade and your dad worked a lot and so you really cut your teeth going door to door, understanding what rejection truly was. Because I think that's what makes most people kind of deny the aspect of negotiation is they don't want to feel rejection. So how did that shape you, you know, learning about rejection at such a young age? In seventh grade. When I was in seventh grade, I was playing video games. I wasn't learning about sales and, and being rejected.

Sure. And don't get me wrong, I played some video games as well. So I'm, you know, had plenty of fun. But, you know, there's just something to be said about learning these things at a young age. I've got to tell you, at the beginning, it was really hard. I took everything personally. I felt like people didn't like me. I felt like I wasn't good. You know, maybe I wasn't good enough. Like just really questioning who I was. Is this the right fit for me? Why am I not good at this? Because my whole first week, and it was, quite frankly, it was longer than my first week. But like inside my whole first week, I took a job that was a commission job. So I only got paid if I sold, but I didn't sell anything. I wasn't good at the beginning. Yeah. And I was just like, people were rough even to a seventh grader. And so what ended up happening is I just had this realization, you know, number one, it's nothing personal. They're not saying anything to me. They're saying it about my offer or the product, the service, whatever it is. And that realization was really big. And then the second one, I saw other people getting better results than me and I figured, well, if they can get them, I can too. So I just need to model and emulate and be a copycat. And that really was kind of like the foundation for future success. That I've had is that I didn't try to reinvent the wheel. I just found whoever was doing whatever the thing was the best, and I just copy the heck out of it until I got those results. And I just didn't innovate until I had the results. Once I had the results, I was okay innovating.

And you had to be like, really, really strong emotionally. Like, where do you get, you know, as an investor, as a lifestyle investor, you have to be very strong emotionally, but also you have to just learn through experience. There's no shortcut to life experiential learning. It's just. That's the only about the equation where we see all these guides. It's like the five biggest ways to earn wealth and, you know, the seven ways to save money. All of these things are cool, but they're really intellectual. There's something on an emotional and even a spiritual level too, that we have to embody in order to be a true lifestyle investor, lifestyle entrepreneur, lifestyle person. What is that for you? The spiritual, the emotional component of the skills that we need in order to handle being a lifestyle anything.

Yeah. And for me, I just. I came to a point where I realized I'm enough just the way that I am. You know, I've been created and. And I have a purpose here on this earth, and I want to really serve in the capacity that I can. And early on it, you know, it really showed up in kind of the. The works that I did. Later on, I realized it was more in who I was and really tapping into the natural, innate gifts that I've been blessed with, which are just different from everyone. Everyone has different unique gifts. And so I just kind of got clear on that. And then another big thing is I started divorcing my results from who I was. Because early on in my career, I really took a lot of my successes maybe as who I was. Or then if I wasn't doing well, then maybe I was on this emotional roller coaster of like, hey, when things are really good, I'm crushing it. I'm doing well. When business is tough, man, I'm not doing as well. And that roller coaster is not healthy. A lot of people live on it. I lived on it, and I was really happy to get off that roller coaster.

Yeah, I've heard it in Joe Dispenza's work, even in his book Breaking the Habit of Being yourself, where we can get addicted to the highs and lows of life. Kind of like, I'm rich, I'm not bitcoin's up, Bitcoin's down. I felt that a little bit in the past six months. So. So how did you personally get off the roller coaster? Like, what did that look like in a tactile way? A lot of people listening are probably maybe just beginning their journey of being a lifestyle investor, understanding what money even is. How did you do that for yourself? How did you unwind the, the mentality around that?

Well, there are a couple of different tiers here. You know, one of them is, is that, you know, are you deriving your human life value on works, on what you do, on what you perform, on, you know, output? So that part, you know, that's one puzzle to solve and that we all have greater value and greater purpose than whatever result we just got. But secondly, I'd say it becomes a lot easier when you don't have to work for money. So to a certain degree you've got these bills you've got to pay. You know, you have a lifestyle that you've become accustomed to and once you can remove the financial component to it, there's so much more clarity. And you can talk to, you know, people that have had big exits from businesses. You can talk to people that had big successes. And the, the thing that you'll see that you'll get back to, a lot of them are not happy. Why? Because they worked so hard to get this thing and then it wasn't what they thought it would be. A lot of these people that have big exits, they realize, oh, I worked so hard to strive to do this and I got this and felt really good that day, maybe that week. I got a bunch of digits in the bank account, but nothing has changed. Like I'm, I'm me. Everything that I showed up here with is still here. And I feel like I need purpose, you know, and getting this outcome isn't the end all be all like I thought it was going to be.

And I feel like the identity that's placed on that is huge. Because I remember Tom Bilyeu was talking about this once. He's been on the show a couple times and in one of the interviews he was like, once I saw all the zeros in my bank account when I sold the Quest bars. I didn't feel any different. And I was like, how is that possible? This is probably like 10 plus million dollar valuation. Actually, quest bar is probably $100 million. And I'm like, okay, if he's telling me that and he's one of the most successful entrepreneurs in media, then maybe it's not about the invisible carrot. Maybe it's not about, like, getting to there there. It's about who you actually become on a fundamental spiritual, emotional level. How does that. How does that happen for someone? Obviously, we're going to get into the nuts and bolts of how to invest and beginning stages of that. But before we get into that, how do you change who you are when it comes to ending the roller coaster and getting rid of the carrot?

You know, that's an interesting question. And the interesting thing about it is a lot of people don't realize until they've kind of achieved what they wanted to achieve, that maybe that shouldn't have been the end goal. But you can realize it earlier if you live vicariously through other people, if you learn other people's lessons, if you listen to wisdom of other people that have experienced it. But I mean, the old saying is very true that it's about who you become. It's the journey, not the destination. Yeah. And it's so true. You know, I see it all the time. And keep in mind, in my world, I didn't have, like this huge exit where all of a sudden I was done. I had a bunch of singles and doubles, and that's it. So my experience has been a little bit different. But the people that I coach, a lot of the people in my Mastermind, they've had monster exits. So, I mean, it's. It's an endless number of people that, you know, kind of realize later, like, oh, life's bigger than just this thing I've been chasing. And maybe I misprioritized the value of money or I misprioritized the value of business and how many hours I spent. And once they redirect, they're able to live an even more purposeful, passionate life. Sometimes you have to experience that to figure it out. But some people can say, hey, I'm going to take what, you know, this person said. I'm going to take, you know, my friend who had an exit and talk to them and learn their takeaways and, you know, really learn the lessons now, maybe shift what I'm pursuing.

Do you feel like it's always when it comes to being financially smart, learning from other people, like you said, living vicariously through someone's lessons and getting wisdom that way. What specific turning points have you had in life where you're like, wow, that was some supreme financial wisdom that I learned. You know, can you share one of those moments where you. You really course corrected and maybe how that relates to the invisible carrot?

Yeah, I mean, I think that we always want to be living with and around people that are playing the game of life or the game of business or investing at a higher level. Because there's education, there's clarity, there's wisdom. There's so much that can be taken from it. So you, you don't have to experience what they've experienced to learn those lessons. And you can shift and autocorrect along the way. I mean, I can tell you endless stories of, like, I thought it was this, but it ended up being that. And some of that comes from, you know, let's just, you know, play a simple game out where. Even as a budding entrepreneur, I really put a lot of, I guess, pride in my work ethic. So I could work harder than anyone else in my network. I, you know, I could put the hours in. So the badge of honor was hours worked.

Yeah.

And that served me until it didn't. And often my experience has been whatever gets you to a certain level is not the same thing that's going to get you to the next level. And just hanging around other people, they're like that, you know, why are you working so much? Why are you working so hard? Take a step back, figure out how to get the results. But without so much work, how do you empower others to do it? How do you build a culture in your organization or build systems around protocols, software, people, whatever that looks like. And so, in one sense, as an entrepreneur, I was the entrepreneur that just busted my butt. Eventually, I learned how to work smart, not hard. You can work both smart and hard.

Was that because of pain or was that because of intelligence? Like, did you learn through pain or did you learn through wisdom?

Well, I think both. I mean, I remember at one point, you know, as a new entrepreneur, I was working some crazy hours.

Like 100 plus.

Yeah. Easily 100 to 120 a week.

You just can't sustain that on a physiological level. It'll crush you.

Correct.

Over time. Yeah, that's applauded. It's applauded in the business world for some reason.

It is. And I learned, you know, I remember sitting in my office, it was a Friday night, like 10pm, 10:30pm all my friends are out. Hey, let's, you know, let's go out to the bars. Let's meet up, you know, what are you doing? And I'm still at the office. And I remember thinking, hey, I'm really okay with the season right now. I'm okay working hard. I'm. I'm okay. Like, I didn't Have a team. I didn't know how to develop people at that time. I was a one man show. I was, you know, kind of figuring that out. I wasn't great at working through people, but I remember saying, I can't work like this when I have a family. You know, when I'm married, my spouse needs more time than me being at the office on a Friday night at 10, 10:30 in the evening. And, and so I, I knew that that was a season and that season would be short lived and I was willing to make that sacrifice. But I knew that I had to figure out a way out of it so that later on I didn't have to do that, that I can have a life, I can raise a family, I can, you know, provide the time that my spouse, that my daughter is going to want. And so I saw in the future the life that I wanted and my schedule just wasn't sustainable or even desirable, quite frankly. Yeah, but in that season it was all right. You know, I learned some great lessons and I'm thankful that I know how to work hard. I mean, that work ethic is great.

How long was that season?

Probably three years.

Okay, so for people that are out there, it doesn't mean it's forever. Like maybe you go through a season of really hard work, like 100 hour plus weeks, and not everybody has the recipe, the ingredients or the DNA, Justin, to be a true entrepreneur. But this term lifestyle investor, which I love, I mean, this is what you wrote the book about. What does that even mean to be a lifestyle investor? Does it mean that you have to have a ton of capital? Does it mean that you have to have hardcore financial acumen? What does that mean to you to be a lifestyle investor? And has it changed since you've written the book that term?

Yeah, you know, I think the term has evolved. I mean, the way that I look at it now, and even the way I looked at it then was that to be a lifestyle investor, you're in charge of your life. You're in charge of building an incredible life that can support itself based on income coming in. So instead of working for a paycheck, working for a business, working for your business, why not buy assets that produce income? Those assets cover the cost of life. Well, now your choices become better quality choices, your problems become better quality problems. You don't have to worry about, can I cover my bills, can I put food on the table, can I support my family? Now it's hey, where do I want to spend my time? Who do I want to Spend my time with what are the things that bring me the most energy and joy and passion in life. So those shifts. So when I think about being a lifestyle investor, it really is a focus on owning your time. You know, I look at wealth much differently than I think a lot of people. And I outline it in my book. Most people, when you say wealthy, they think about money. And I think money is a component of it, but I think it's much greater than that. You know, I know a lot of people that have a lot of money but their physical health is horrible and they can't really do a lot. They're, you know, they're on a trajectory that is going to be a short life or they have bad relationships with their, the people they love most because they've prioritized work or money over those relationships. So that to me just is out of alignment. It's just incongruent with who I am, what I want out of life. So, you know, to be a lifestyle investor is to put your life first, put your values first, put your family values first and to be able to live in accordance with those.

Do you find in your groups that by the time people come because you have a pretty high level mastermind, it's not for the beginning investor. This is for like seasoned people. But if you could pull like the memory e break and go back in time and remember what it was when you like first started Cutco, which I seem like seems like a lot of really successful entrepreneurs started in Cutco. Rob Dial, who's been on the show, and a few other people. First of all, what was it about Cutco that made people successful? Was it the element of like paying with commission, dealing with rejection? So that's the first part. And then secondly, I want to unpack some of the mentality around how to start, how to actually begin your journey as an investor. But Cutco first, like what's up with that company?

Well, Cutco is just a great training ground. You know, you learn all the things that you know kind of you're going to be faced with. So if you can weather the storm of rejection, handling objections, you know, learning and growing, getting better, really riding the waves of like good times and bad times. I just think that you learn a lot, you grow a lot with a lot of the success that you see from people in Cutco. And a lot of people in my friend group you've got these people that really excelled in that business. And so a lot of them ended up spending time together, getting to know one another, sharing secrets yeah, without a doubt.

And it's knives. Cutco is knives.

That's right.

And cutlery. That's right. Nothing else.

That's right.

So you literally cut your teeth at Cutco, and then that's when you started investing. That was the beginning journey. So pulling the E brake, what did that feel like for you back then? Because maybe a lot of people with us right now, they're there. They're like, at that point at their company, they're just starting. So in the time machine, do you remember how you felt? Do you remember what your life was like?

Yeah, you know, I felt really good in the beginning because. So I started investing when I was 18. I was a finance major in. At the University of Illinois. They have an incredible business program. And I took, you know, all these courses from adjunct professors that were great at their craft. And so I knew that I needed to invest the money that I had, that I needed to not just consume or live at what I was able to earn.

Yeah.

So I started investing at a young age, but I went the route that I think most people go. I was the good kid who followed conventional wisdom, and I did my Roth ira, and I, you know, did these different, you know, retirement accounts, qualified plans. I saved money. I had my, you know, kind of rainy day or emergency fund of money just in case everything were to go belly up that I could survive for. You know, at first it was a month, then it was three months, then it was six months just for that peace of mind, just, you know, to make sure I'm. I'm doing things the right way. And I was proud. I was proud that I was able to be disciplined to save money. And I thought I was doing it the right way. I was doing it the way that everyone told me I was supposed to be doing it. And I really got a punch in the gut when I learned later on that the money I had been putting in the stock market in qualified plans, in, you know, just in the financial markets, the conventional way, wasn't yielding what I thought it was yielding. In fact, it wasn't even yielding what they were telling me it was yielding because I was getting manipulated numbers that made it look better than it really was.

Yes.

So I had this aha moment where I'm like, wait a minute. I just added up how much money I invested. I added up how much money I had, like, made. And my statements were saying, like, I've got, you know, 7% return over, you know, this year. And it's like, oh, that's really good. But when I looked at the real numbers. I had less money than what I put in. How is it possible that my average rate of return is some positive number, but my actual rate of return is negative? I'm losing money. That. That really upset me, and that set me on the path for finding a better way to invest. So, you know, your first question is, like, how did you feel? How did you get started? I just got started putting a little money away, but I put it in the wrong vehicles. I put it in vehicles that retail investors put it in. I had the highest fees because I'm, you know, kind of playing the Wall street game, the stock market game. And by the way, you can make money there. I'm not saying you can't, but I was 100% there for what wasn't going back into my business. And so that was a big eye opener where I said, all right, I got to get out. I've got to do things differently. I'm going to go to the wholesale side, not the retail side, which is more private equity, alternative investments, real estate, that type of thing. And I started seeing some great returns. I was having less fees, greater returns, more depreciation, more control. It just made more sense to me. And so I just shifted my focus. So I still was investing, you know, every paycheck that I got.

What percentage were you investing? From, like, age 18 to 25.

So I was. I was investing at least 20 of what I made.

20%. I mean, that's discipline.

Yes. I had that kind of ingrained at a young age. I wanted to get ahead.

Who ingrained that for you?

Books, people around me, people in Cutco, Just people that I trusted and looked up to. And by the way, I think that's great. I mean, at one point in time, as a professional, I was investing half of what I made. So, you know, my first few years, it was, you know, around 20%. Then I got it to 25, then 30. But eventually, you know, for probably, I don't know, five, 10 years, I was investing half of what I was making because that was my ticket out. I recognized that if I can get cash flow on my money, then I wouldn't have to keep needing to earn money based on my time spent.

Yeah.

Does that's where I want to exit?

Does that same model of approach, does it work when someone is an employee? Like, for example, let's say somebody earns 2,000 to $4,000 a month, and they start at 10%, if they can live really frugal for a while, 20%. So they pull that out, they put it into maybe an envelope method, you know, some type of method where they're at least holding it not just for a rainy day, but like to use it in a smart way. Does it truly matter how much capital you have when you begin or is it more just the traditional mindset of getting it out of these high feed programs and putting it to more in the path like you're talking about?

Well, there are a few different ways to look at this. So the one thing that I'll say is the discipline of saving money and investing money in itself is going to be a fruitful return. So even if it's not yielding a lot in the moment, if you can put money aside that you don't spend today, that can earn you money tomorrow, that in itself is going to set people up for a lot of success. That set me up for a lot of success. Because most likely people are going to make more money every year. Or you know, let's say that you're, you got a corporate gig, you're gonna probably get some sort of a pay raise each year, right? Maybe it's a small percent if you negotiate properly. If you negotiate properly and money's gonna, you know, more money's being printed, right? So it takes more dollars to get the same result. So people over time will likely make a little bit more. And at some point, some people might have a big jump. But over time, most people are gonna continue to make a little more because the salary that got someone at one point in time, it's gonna take a little bit on when money is not worth as much. So anyway, you, you strike it. Having some sort of discipline of investing I think is great. Then I think it's, do you want to ride the wave of retail stock market? Because you don't want to put the time into learning you trust someone else to do it. And by the way, there are great financial planners out there, but in the last 15 years, 95% of them did not outperform, just doing the S&P 500 index. So you yourself, at the lowest fee for access to the market, could be investing in indexes and outperform 95% of the money managers. Most people don't realize that, so they pay more money to make less money than if they just did that. And on top of it, for people that want to kind of make an even bigger return, that will take the opportunity to, you know, learn and educate. They can get into real estate, they can get into private equity, they can get into different things that allow them they can get into private credit that help them make bigger returns and with, you know, less fees, more control. You know, plenty of these things are liquid as well.

I used to think that wellness was a square and it's a pentagon. Because physical, emotional, mental, spiritual. Yeah, those are things that we all have to constantly fill. It's like a glass of water. And we have like all these four glasses of water. We don't always have to borrow chi or energy or education from one glass and put it in another. But I tell, I'll tell you, man, I had the complete and total disillusionment for a long time that wellness was those four things. And it's actually a pentagon. So wellness for me has shifted. It's no longer a square, it's a pentagon. And that fifth glass, that fifth area is finance. Look, whether people have a story about money, money's the evil thing. Money doesn't grow on trees, blah, blah, blah. I had a ton of that when I was growing up. And this story around money is actually a collective wound that I feel like we're experiencing as humans. We all signed up to be here. We're here on planet Earth. And really, whether you like it or not, if you drop a pen, gravity is a law. And there's a law of wealth too. And I'm sure you know many laws when it comes to wealth. If we are wounded by money and if we have a story about money, money's not going to come to us. Right. You can call it law of attraction, or you could just call it maybe a financial law. Can you share with us, like, your wisdom on your own money story? How did that play out for you and maybe even with some of the students that you've worked with? What is the continuous through line with this money story and the money wounding that we all have a narrative in our mind about?

Yeah, I mean, the beliefs that people have around money are going to most certainly impact their ability to build their, you know, financial war chest, their ability to build their financial wealth. And I think most people, My experience for myself and the people in my network is that their beliefs around money, their mindset around money, is borrowed from someone else and borrowed because someone projected a certain thing and they took it as fact versus doing their own homework or coming up with their own beliefs around it. And often if those beliefs are disempowering, then self sabotage ultimately kicks in. People have a hard time. I know a ton of people have a hard time keeping money, building wealth because of their mindset, because of their beliefs around it. And so, you know, my goal and even the beginning of my book, I talk a lot about mindset because I do think that's where it all starts. One shift in mindset changes the game. You're one shift in mindset moving from, you know, like, to, you know, having the extra layer for financial on, you know, your, you know, your square. Right. Yeah. That can't be unseen. You can't unlearn that. Like, from now on, that is a reality in your world. And so I think once people learn that, see that experience, that. That becomes the game changer. But how do you. How do you make that small mindset shift? Because it's. It's not much. You just have to be exposed to it. You just. Yeah. Whether you read it, whether you hang out with someone, you just have to have exposure. And. And then you're learning someone else's rule set or beliefs around money, and then you can choose to adopt them or not. You know, some people look at what I do and, you know, kind of the things that I say, and they're like, oh, I can't do that. But you'll have a person in the same exact situation will say, oh, yeah, I could totally do that. I'm so glad I heard this. So it really is. It comes down to personal choice. It comes down to beliefs.

When you say someone installed it, what you really mean is mom or dad or grandpa or grandma or caregiver. Like, those are the people, and we love them. It's not about, like, shaming our parents or shaming our grandparents or our caregivers, but they do unwillingly. I'm sorry, unknowingly. They imprint us on a subconscious level of money doesn't grow on trees. Expect the worst to happen when it comes to money. Money is for rich people or whatever it is. Where does that come from? What exactly is that? And have you yourself dealt with literally having to rip your money story out by the roots and install a new tree?

Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, what was that like? Yeah, I mean, the. The saying money doesn't grow on trees was the common saying in my household.

Really?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so, I mean, just paying attention to how my parents live. My parents, by the way, are amazing people. Yeah, we've got a great relationship. They're moving here to Austin, which is cool. I'm going to get more time with them. So, I mean, we're. We're very close, but the mindset around it was. It is scarce, and you hold onto it, and you hold onto it tight. Well, if you're holding on to money tight. It is really hard to make more money if you're not letting it go and letting it go to work. It's going to be really hard to create more. I mean, you can make it via, you know, your time spent doing things. And my dad has an incredible work ethic. I learned that from him. And in many ways, that served me well. And in many ways, it didn't serve me right. And so, like, that whole, like, mindset around work ethic, and you've got to work hard for your money and you got to put in hours. That was great. When I didn't know, you know, kind of like an abundance around money. When I didn't know that there was a smarter way to do it. The moment I learned there was a smarter way to do it, the game changed. Why work so hard if you can get the same result or a better result with less work? That one's common sense. But the way that you learn that is your exposure to other people that do that. That's why your peer group is so important. That's why mentors and, you know, coaches. And keep in mind, everyone today is a life coach. So just be careful.

Be careful out there, y'. All.

Coach. But, yeah, I mean, have they done the thing that you want to do, in which case, you know, bring them on as a coach that that's exactly what you want. Do your due diligence on them, make sure that's the case, but surround yourself with the people that are living life the way that you want to live it. And that's values as well. They have the right values. They treat people well. They have good relationships. Yes, they do well financially. They're physically fit. If that's of value to you. To me, that's a value. So I'm going to take the advice of someone that has the full package over. Someone that just has a, like, a portion of it. Like, hey, maybe you made a lot of money, but I can see your marriage is falling apart. Relationships aren't strong. You snap at people, you're rude, you're angry, you're out of shape. Like, that is not who I would look at as a role model for the life that I want to build. There might be nuggets that I could take. There might be things on the negative side I could learn to not repeat. But I would rather find the person that I can just emulate because they have it. They have the whole package.

I've never gotten such powerful advice than I did when I went to a Vipassana and goinka. I don't know if you ever done long term vipassanas or any long meditations. It's the vipassana meditation and at the end of it, it's a ten day silent meditation. So you're literally. You can't look at anyone, you can't masturbate, you can't do anything other than sit, meditate and breathe for like 10 hours a day. I mean, it was wild, Justin. It was wild. But you know, the biggest gem I got from that, at the end, the instructor said, everything that you've learned here is not gospel. Everything that you've learned here, you take what resonates and you leave the rest. And it's so powerful because you can apply that lens to anything, right? Physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial. So looking at this financial lens, for me, the tree got shook really hard. When I moved to Austin, actually, when I moved to Austin, my income tripled. And my income tripled because first of all, I was at peace with the fact that financial is part of wellness. I became more at peace with that. And then secondly, I just designed my entire life around people that felt the same. And I don't hang out with people because they have money. I hang out with people because I resonate with the way they think. I resonate with who they are as a human being, as a soul. So how do you build your group? It's not just about like, if some guy has 10 million, you're gonna hang out with him. If some guy has 1 million, you may not hang out. It's not about that for you. How do you design your peer group so that naturally, organically, the wealth grows?

That's a phenomenal question. Maybe one of the most important questions to solve for, you know, for me, I'm just curious. I. I'm curious at heart. I love to learn. I. I just, I love education. I love meeting people, learning their story, learning what makes them tick, learning how they got to where they did. So to me, I just really like people. And if someone has a cool story and I connect well with them, I want to spend time with them. If they have values that align with my values, that trumps the success that someone, you know, you know, let's call it success on paper, that someone has. It's like, yeah, a lot of people have had success. Do you have admirable values? Do you live a life that is inspiring, you know, to me or to other people? That to me is, you know, that's the barometer. That's where you start and what's beautiful here is you have a whole lot of people. The reason I love Austin so much is you can be who you want to be. And there's so little judgment because anyone, everyone is welcome. And so you don't know if the person next to you is a millionaire, a billionaire living out of their car. You got all of that here in Austin, but you're surrounded by people that just desire community and desire a melting pot and, you know, different ways of doing things and embracing other ideas and things that maybe they haven't considered. So for me, it's like the connection first, and from there, you know, you kind of build and. And if someone's values don't align, I probably am not going to spend a lot of time with them.

Sure.

If their values do align, that's where I want to be. And I don't care how much you've made. I don't care if you've, you know, if you're on a, you know, you're just getting started, you're on a rocket ship, you had a big exit, like, whatever. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm going to learn lessons regardless of where you're at. Right. You may have this really cool story, and I can glean some, you know, some nuggets from that story, but I don't like putting, I think a lot of people, and part of the reason I was even hesitant to put, you know, financials in this book or net worth or whatever, a lot of people use that to define others and who they want to spend time with. And that drives me crazy because that is one of the worst measurement tools. I would much rather measure how strong of relationships people have, how authentic they are, how engaged in the moment they are when you're together. I mean, that, to me is so much a stronger indicator of success than just some dollar amount which changes. Most people have, you know, paper money. Their net worth is generally inflated. They always think they're worth more than they are. That number changes a ton. Most people are asset rich, cash poor. The number that's more important than that is cash flow. Who cares how much you're worth? Do you have the cash flow to own your time and live in accordance with the life you desire to have? I guarantee there's. I mean, that's where the freedom is. That's where. That's where life takes off. You unlock something special and magical when that happens. And it is just an incredible feeling and experience.

Every single human being with a pure desire for freedom. Because really, that's what we're talking about here. If you're a lifestyle investor, if you're a lifestyle human, you. You crave freedom. You just want to be free to go and be with your wife, your husband, your kids when you say so, not when someone else allows you to do so. Isn't that what this is all about is freedom?

For sure, without a doubt, it's the.

Core of your work, is yielding people the fruit so they can be free.

That's right. Because when you're free, you make different decisions. I mean, this is the reality. When money is taken care of, I guarantee 99.9% of the world would spend their time differently. When money is not the thing that you need to get to cover a lifestyle or to have a certain status to whatever it is, I guarantee things change. I remember some of the most important journaling sessions that I ever did were around what would I do when I had enough money to cover whatever I needed? Let's say I had this huge exit and had all the money. I never had to worry about money ever again. And I started getting clear on what that looked like. And so for me, I was able to start my journey early. I was able to say, hey, these are the things I want, these are the things I do. And I started doing them then. And so it created this much more vibrant life along the way until I finally achieved it. But I think most people don't really. My experience and the people that I have worked with, I've coached people on my mastermind, people in, you know, investors clubs, different things that I've done, that's not the case. And they don't realize that until maybe they get there. And some people may never get there. And we're all built to want more and to fight contentment, even though contentment is really where a lot of joy is. But whatever the number is that you want, when you get there, you want more. Yeah, right. So whatever the number is, the goal post move. So to have some number is probably it. It isn't going to serve you if that's the highest good, if that's the number one pursuit. So if we can get clear today on what it is, that would just light you up and, and create the time and space to experience those things now. Then the journey becomes so much more fun along the way.

Do you feel like there always has to be a path where you do what you love to make money, or is it the other path where you could be great at business? Maybe it's a business you don't love Take the capital, take the earnings from that, and then fund a life that you do love. In other words, do you have to live your life on purpose to make money and be abundant, or is there another way?

I think there are many ways. I don't think that there's one right way. I mean, I could tell you that. I mean, just in what I've seen, there's a ton of ways to do it. Just in what I've experienced, there's a ton of ways to do it. I don't think there's a right or a wrong. But if you are living a life that doesn't feel as exciting or as compelling, you may want to consider doing it a different way. I mean, I've done businesses that created money. I've started them, I've worked in them, I've been involved where I didn't necessarily love that, but I was making good money. And so maybe I became a slave to that business for that season that served me in that season. Now, in retrospect, could I have done it differently? Yeah. You know, what most people don't realize is if you create the time to actually give, you give yourself think time. I mean, one of the biggest takeaways I ever had in. In one of the books that I read and getting the chance to. To meet Keith Cunningham, he talked about think time and scheduling. Think time, where it's electronics free. You turn everything off you got, you know, you start with an hour, graduate to two hours, but nothing bombards you. You clear your schedule and you just think, you plan, you strategize, you just figure out whatever it is that you want to do. You ask yourself great questions. You journal these things that, to me, creating that space to figure out what I wanted, that was huge. Most people, my experiences, they just live life on autopilot. And they just go from thing to thing to thing. Their schedule so booked, they go, you know, from one event to the next, one meeting to the next. It's really hard to get clarity in that. I think if people built enough time to actually think, they could create a much more vibrant life, much more wealth on every front. But most people don't do that. That's not the norm. You know, it's. It's culturally acceptable to work tons of hours and to get ahead and to climb the corporate ladder. It's weird to, like, take time to think for yourself and to carve that out and to not be bombarded by social media or notifications.

You're touching on something really profound, like my whole body kind of tensed up because it's been a hot point for me when I've gone on other shows and people ask me something like, well, what keeps people stuck? And I'm like, well, that's a big question. Like, there's a lot of things that keep people stuck. But when it comes to money, it's really about can you admit, can you surrender that you have become victimized by your own intellect and victimized by the trappings and distractions of society? Because let's face it, Justin, if I'm not carving out time for myself, if I'm not breathing properly. We did some breath work before we started the podcast, which it was good, man. It was the first time that you had done some breath work like that before, and it was just 20 circular breaths. If we're not cultivating these physical habits, then the mind gets cloudy, our body gets uncomfortable, the mind gets cloudy, and then next thing you know, watching sports and drinking beer is better than connecting with God, connecting with spirit, doing things that aren't healthy become more attractive. And the syrupy sweet nectar of, like, sitting at the bar for 12 hours becomes more fun than you being with yourself. Like, have you. You seem like you've always had a pretty good ethic since 18. I don't know, maybe not. But have you. How has that played out for you to literally put up healthy barriers to keep away society's tentacles, social media, computers and everything like that? And if not for you, maybe some of the students and maybe some of your. Your partners in your programs. How has that played out?

That's such a fun question. It's such an interesting question. I mean, we could go a lot of layers into this one.

I feel like we all experience it, though, on many different levels. That kind of distraction tentacle that wants to rob us.

Without a doubt. And you know, for me, I. I have had a great work ethic. Really. I mean, just probably from modeling from my father, and then just other people that I saw that were successful and. And had achieved some of the things I wanted to achieve. And so my work ethic early on was misdirected. It was misdirected into maybe just like, getting stuff done. Maybe it's even. And by the way, I'm guilty of this, where I've got this long listed to dos. Well, why don't I just get really busy at like, knocking off all the easy versus, like, going after the ones that are actually going to yield the most fruit, Right? Yeah. So it's interesting, like, in my younger years, my work ethic was directed to building businesses and to, like, growing sales and building recruiting teams or whatever it might be. Later on, my work ethic started, you know, really pouring into how do I buy assets that produce income instead of my time producing income? How do I learn from the greatest minds out there? And so I became a student. So I had, you know, all these coaches who had no clue that they were my coach because I was just reading all their books, right? So I became an avid reader, and I directed a lot of my work ethic from doing into being and learning and becoming. And so that was a really nice shift. I wish I would have learned it later, but I'm so thankful that I learned it, you know? So today, I mean, I read a ton. I have this insatiable desire to learn, to grow, to, you know, figure out what's next, who's doing something better, how can I model, how can I emulate? And so that's really fun to me. I'm just very curious at heart.

Me too. Man in the bookshelf here in the studio, I probably have half those books I haven't read yet. I think we're all guilty of this. Don't you have a lot of books you haven't read yet in your house?

Oh, without a doubt.

And you're like, okay, one day, I'm gonna do it. But you know what's been really powerful for me is audible. I love audible. I go for a walk. I'm getting educated as I'm walking. I take my son out, we go for a walk, and I get smart. It's beautiful. This is why people are with us right now, maybe on YouTube or on Apple or Spotify, and they're getting smart with us as they're walking up the stairs or whatever it is. There's a thing that I've been coming across and I've never heard the term. I'm curious how you feel about this. It's called synergy stacking. I don't know if I made the term up or not. I googled it. I couldn't find anything. But I've put this into the brief program, and I've been teaching some of my clients this. When you do multiple things that all blend together and that are really, really friends, like walking and learning or maybe something else. Can you think of a synergy stack for investing and being a lifestyle investor that you put into practice yourself, how do you stack things?

Well, yeah, I mean, I think that this is. I love that phrase. I love the whole idea around it. I love just. I mean, What a great synergy stack. You know, Tony Robbins talks about net time, no extra time. So, you know, taking a walk. You want to take a walk anyway, right? Well, you throw an audible in there. And I do this all the time, too. I love it. I love working out, listening. I love walking, listening, riding my bike, whatever. I just love to consume.

I rarely listen to music anymore. I'm like. I'm just like. And then when I listen to music with my partner, you know, Totally. That's it.

Yeah. And. But you can do this in anything, right? You're, you know, the synergy stack, or kind of creating layers that allow you to get ahead. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, where the. The hack type of terminology has evolved, like life hacking and all that, shortcuts to success or, you know, really empowering routines and habits. You can do that in anything. You can do that across the board. So, yes, for sure. I do this in investing, and some of that happens to be like, hey, what if the people that I want to spend time with are the people that I want to invest in their deals? What if these people know things that I don't know? Well, if I hang out with them, I'm going to learn these things by default. They're going to talk about them, I'm going to learn them, I'm going to ask questions. So, I mean, that's just a subtle way of doing it. So what happens? And then there's the difference of, hey, are you doing this subconsciously? And then are you consciously pursuing these strategy stacks, if you will? And so I think subconsciously, people do that. If you listen to podcasts that have a growth element in them, subconsciously you're going to make these moves, but then you can exponentially compound it by intentionally adding to it.

So some of the stacks you do is just hanging out with friends and colleagues that you resonate with, that you vibe with, and you're learning. So, but this is a key point, too, and I'm glad you mentioned that. There's been a narrative for a long time with me that I had to make peace with, and it is, would I still hang out with somebody if I wasn't interested in the money that I could make when I hang out with them? And I had to be really honest with myself about that. And the way that I understand it now, and it took a long time for me to get here, because I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Like, in 2015, I was literally coming from, like, a scrapping energy where I would Just do anything. I could make friends with anybody. I could. And maybe like you said, that's a season. Maybe we all go through those seasons. But where I'm at now is a greater place of wisdom, a slower approach. And the way that I think about it is I don't hang out with people because I like their money or because I want their money. I hang out with people because I like the way they think. I like the way they approach life. I like the lens that they look at life through because I aspire to or I hold currently the lens that, that we're both looking at together. How has the friend groups that you had in your 30s shifted? Has it been a massive shift or has it been more gradual? Was there a point in your life where you're like, I'm done with this person or I'm done with this group, and you literally just said that's it. And then maybe your life changed after that?

Well, I think that to find role models that you respect, I mean, first of all, most people don't even take step number one, which is, let me find people that are doing the thing that I want to spend time with them. Most people don't do that. So if you just do that, that's, you know, that's step one. That's 101. Right. If you want to get to 201, it's like being intentional. Well, where do I need to grow? You know, if you want to get more fit, you by all means should be hanging out with people that are more fit. That could be like friends, you know, getting tips from them. It could be hiring a trainer. But if that is a value and a desire, then you should be hanging out with that. So if you want to get more financially fit, you should hang out with people that are more financially fit. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I also think that in doing so, check the motive at the door. Right? Is this like, are you using this relationship just to get what you want or are you giving back in some way to the best of your ability? And I don't think it's bad to hang out with people because, hey, I want to get better in this space. But if the intentions are just me, me, me, like self serving, and it doesn't go beyond that. Yeah, I do think that that could be problematic for me. You know, I just. At different stages of my life, I've seen who I hang out with. And proximity really drives most of the relationships that people have. So who you work with, who Your neighbors are, who your kids go to school with, who you play sports with, who you go to, you know, classes with. These are the drivers generally of the relationships that you have. You know, in my younger years, you know, I had a lot of fun going out to bars and watching sports. And by the way, don't get me wrong, I still love sports, but I would notice who my peer group was, and I don't know that all those individual. Actually, I know that all those individuals were not helping me become a better version of me. And for a while, I was blind to that. And in time, I figured out, well, there's some people that are dragging me down and other people that are pulling me up. But if I'm just going to let proximity determine where I'm going and what my influences are, I'm probably not going to get as far ahead as if I'm intentional. And I say, hey, I actually want to get better in this area, so why don't I bring someone in? Why don't I make friends with someone that knows this and we can connect on this level? And so my peer group really shifted from convenience and proximity to intentionality and growth and desire.

Yeah. And was there an age that you really started to notice that Tony Robbins.

Was a very pivotal figure for me in this recognition? And so I read books of his, started going to his events, and just realized that who I want to become was. I was on a slow path to getting there, and that I needed intentionality to, you know, step up. I needed to make a plan. I needed to not have default run my life. I needed to have a design and have a game plan. And so, you know, I went through all of his programs, and those were just phenomenal. And I just. I met people that were. That showed up with a different energy. Kind of like, you know, when you show up here in Austin, you just feel something different. There's a different vibe here. The people there. It was a different vibe than who I was hanging out with. You know, one good move I made in my earlier years is that I did spend time with the people that were doing the best in the businesses that I was involved in. And so I wanted to play at their level. So how do I do that? Well, I just copy them. I make friends with them. I, you know, use what they're they're doing. And then it became bigger than that. Then it became like, you know, not just business, but life. And in time, I just started resonating with those people. It was like the. The, like, I didn't Want the time to end. It was so fruitful, so enjoyable. Time just passed. Like, you look down, you're like, whoa, where'd four hours go? That's incredible. And that's because I found people that really wanted the things that I wanted. We were on the same page. We had a similar mindset. And that's when the game changes. That's the gold.

The sweet spot, I feel, is being friends with those kind of people. And then when push comes to shove, when like the chips go down, when there's economic upheaval, when people really need each other, then you really find out who your true friends are. Because I think it's super easy to have like rings of friends. Like for me, I really probably only have on two hands, 10 friends or less, that if they called me in the middle of the night and they needed a ride somewhere, or if they really, you know, the wheels are falling off the wagon, I'd be there for them and they're there for me. And I don't know, Justin, if we're designed for more than that, like, you know, a couple handfuls of really, really close people. And then there's the second ring. There's a second ring where it's like they're good friends, but maybe they're not that close. Then there's the third ring where, okay, these are my colleagues, we have fun together, maybe we enjoy each other. And then there's the outer ring, which is just more acquaintances. Where do you spend the most of your time in those rings?

Well, this is where my intentionality really steps up. I've been so first of all, I had several very wise mentors tell me that you really can't have too many more deep, strong relationships like, than 12. Like 12 is 12 number.

Interesting because, okay, that, that makes sense.

When you go beyond that, then the 12 will start lacking. By the way, that doesn't mean everyone has to have 12, but that's kind.

Of like that's the limit.

Yeah.

How did they come up with 12? What's that number, you know, special about that?

There's a lot of different theories. A lot of people have, you know, I mean, you have some people that take a scientific look at it, you have some people that take a relational look at it, you have some people that take a biblical look at it. You know, so there's a lot of different ways I've just, I've heard this non stop. 10 and 12 being the two numbers and 12 more scientifically, you know, stated, I guess, you know, fact based on, you know, Some data, some criteria.

Okay.

So anyway, around 12. Around 12. I don't think the number really matters. And by the way, if you only have, like, two or three great friends your entire life, but you have just. You just pour into each other, I think that's incredible. So you don't have to get there. But what I started doing this is about, I don't know, probably 18 years ago, I started being intentional with planning out goals and dreams and writing them down. Early on, I would actually print it out. It was all on one page. I would tape it to my bathroom mirror, and I would look at it. Here are my top 10 goals for the year here. You know, and literally everything was right there. I looked at it every day. And the reason I did it is so I couldn't forget. It was in my face. And from there, it evolved into, like, bigger type of workshops that I would do. And then when I met my wife while we were dating, I kind of introduced her to some of this planning that I do. And at first she thought I was crazy.

Shocker.

Yeah, she just. This wasn't her world. But she kind of, like, fell into, you know, wanting to do it with me or at least curious. And over time, I mean, we. So we have this marriage and planning day that we do where we plan everything. And not to a T, where everything's planned, but, like, really important stuff we map out. And, you know, who do we want to be? Who do we want to spend time with? So literally in this planning document, every single year, I mean, I've been doing this for either 14 or 15 years. I literally lay out who are my 12 people that I need to get one on one time that I'm going to be intentional with this year. Who are the 12 people? My 12 relationships. And by the way, we have it broken down also into couples. So who are the couples that, you know, we can have, like an outing, a double date, whatever. Four of us, maybe six of us. But it's. It's the group that we vibe both sides, right? Because sometimes, you know, your spouse's friends you don't vibe with as much, or she doesn't, or he doesn't vibe with, you know, your friends as much. And so finding, like, four that everyone is really excited about, you know, that that's. That's special. So it's getting intentional there where we're spending time. So not just let it. Not just saying yes to whoever says, hey, you want to hang out, but being on a mission to say, hey, these are the couples we want to get time with. These are the 12 people that, for me individually, like, I just need to make sure I get time with them. And on my list is. Is also mentors that I really want pouring into my life. And on my list of 12, by the way, it's not necessarily all 12 people that are like the closest friends. It's like in that season, who needs to be in my life? So sometimes I might have a mentor that isn't yet a mentor. They don't know that I want them to be a mentor or they don't know that I want them to be in my peer group, but I'm going to pursue them. Yeah. And so they might be in my top 12. Even though we're not, you know, tight yet.

They just don't know it yet.

That's right.

They don't know they're in your inner ring. I love that that's cool synergy that we had there because I just assumed that it felt right that There was about 2 handfuls of people that I really, really trust and that I really vibe with. Before we go, man, I want to go into just a few nuts and bolts because these 10 commandments that are in the book, you can obviously go right here, wherever you're watching this podcast and just access all of Justin work. It's right below. But there's this number five that I love actually. And no, it's number three. Watch for the invisible deals. Look at emerging markets. Unconventional opportunities for. In for interesting investments. It's not just cryptocurrency that you're talking about because I, I hold I hodl cryptocurrency and I'm not going to sell it and I'm going to. It's a long game for me. I don't know if that's what you mean by an emerging market or what do you mean by emerging market because this applies to, to really novice investors and seasoned investors as well. This is a really huge nugget.

Yeah, you know, I, I think that an emerging market, I mean, time will tell if you are correct or not. But, you know, I try and pay attention to the trends. I try to see what is happening. A lot of the success that I have had in investing has been because I've had a gut feeling that the next wave, the next season, however many years or months that is, that this is going to be relevant. And so I got in really early on the single family homes kind of wave. Before it was an asset class. I got in really early on mobile home parks. Before that was, you know, A cool thing or, you know, recognized as a great asset by Wall Street. I got in early on E commerce, I got in early on cannabis, hemp, cbd. There's so many waves. I got in early in cryptocurrency, bitcoin. So there's so many things where I do think trends are important and not just what you think, but what does the market think? Or maybe the market doesn't even know yet, but you're so confident in its use case, its utility, that that is the future. I got in early even on industrial warehouses and distribution centers which support E commerce. And so there are certain things where they're just, they're going to be the future. So NFTs, I would say, you know, is another thing. Now the world of crypto and the world of nft, they're not all going to be hits. You're probably going to have the vast majority that are not. But as a whole, there's no way that NFTs are not going to be a major player in the future. There's no way as a whole, cryptocurrency is not going to be a player in the future. Now I do think most of the projects out there are probably not good. They're not strong, they're, you know, it's, they are startups and most startups fail. This is why angel investing is the riskiest, toughest way to invest, where you're just investing in an early stage company and hoping that it works. That to me is like what most crypto projects are. But you find the right ones, you find the ones that have utility, you find the ones that they have, you know, they've got a track record. Bitcoin has a track record. I don't think it's going to zero. You know, I think it's going up. And by the way, in the interim there's turbulence. But if the long game is, I think it's going to be 100k or 500k or whatever number you think it is. Like if you think it's going to be greater than it is today, then it really doesn't matter what price you buy it at. You know, early on it was like, oh, I want to time it perfectly, I only want to buy it when I get a good deal. Well, what's a good deal right now? What's a good deal is way different than next year and ten years from now. And so it's really playing the long game of hey, is this technology? You know, is this relevant? You know, are people going to want some Sort of decentralized financial system that is outside of a sovereign.

I say, hell yes, yes they are.

Right. So I don't know where it's going to be. I don't know that it's going to, you know, who knows, inside of like the next six months, the next year. But long term, yeah, I think that that's the case and so I feel comfortable with that. But you find invisible deals, you find trends, you find off market deals, you find deals that you can get without competition or little competition. That's where you can make some big returns.

This is a different sense. It's not a sixth sense. Or maybe it is, but it's like you said, a gut feeling. Like you, you've been in the world for so long, you've been investing since you were 18. For people that are beginning the journey. Because I know that's probably, unfortunately the majority of people, they're literally hearing this podcast for the perfect reason, where it's like, now's the time to start. Literally, I'm going to start now because there is no other time in the present, which is, that's a whole different podcast. We're here right now. So if you want to invest right now, how would one develop the intuitiveness to find invisible deals? Like how would they study that and gather that?

Well, I think most people are probably not going to develop that right out of the gates. It's not like the next day after you've decided, I'm going to be intentional, I'm going to figure this out. I think the better play is partner with people that have education, have expertise, have a track record. I mean, track record is so important. Anyone, the last 10 years, anyone has done well. We've had so much money just pumped into our system. If you have not done well in the last 10 years, it's, you know, it's, you've had to make some big mistakes, right? So the last 10 years, I don't know if it's a great indicator. I mean, you really want to see like, hey, who's, who's made money outside of this bull market and then it's figuring out like what's. So spend time with the people that have expertise, spend time with people that have the track record. Invest in the things that the smartest, most successful people you know are investing in and start there. And by the way, the best education you'll ever get is when you put your own money into something or the season right before you put it in, where it's really hard to let go of it. As you're figuring out what you want to invest it in. I mean, let's just put it this way. Let's say that, you know, only 5, 10% of all cryptocurrency actually plays out. The ones that play out are going to be big. Most of them are likely going to fizzle out. That's my opinion. Yeah, you might see some of that same. You know, maybe it's the same with NFTs, but there's a place to be able to, you know, mark ownership. But all this that we're talking about is built on the blockchain. So fundamentally, I think the blockchain is the next wave, it's the future. So how do you get a piece of that right? And there's a lot of ways to do it. There are funds that you can do it. But the reality is that's the technology that. I mean, each of these technologies, each of these innovations in itself can be great. But what's the thing that is going to become what everything is built on in the future? And I don't know that there's any way to dispute that blockchain is going to be that.

Yeah.

Even for like mainstay normal things like purchasing a home, you know, there is going to be a way to log that differently than, you know, deed and you know, having a title insurance and, and having a title office, you know, perfect everything for closing like that is today. But in a certain point you're going to be able to see it because it's right on a ledger that everyone can know. You don't have to have someone research to see who rightfully owns it. You will see it with your own eyes.

It blows me away that people still use paper. I'm like, I get it though. I understand why. Because let's say if you're a doom and gloom person, you think that the world is going to end and the, you know, the government's going to cut the power and blah, blah, blah, blah. I understand that, but really, like that's the way of the dinosaur. I feel like paper transactions and having huge file cabinets with papers. It's like if you're doing that, you're really living in a time that's, that's foregone. So any other advice you can give us about the finding the hidden deals, finding hidden things. To me it feels like just having an interest and having a curiosity in hanging out with the people that that's their profession, maybe joining a newsletter, joining little groups. It's like we gather slowly and I think a Lot of us. And I've fallen into this trap in my past where I want to get like the thing. I want to get like the one subscription or I want to get the one piece of information that's going to change my life. And if I could just share any wisdom, and I'm curious, the WISD you could share. Don't do that. Don't do that. Because if it's too good to be true, it may or may not be, but it most likely is. And there's no such thing as Wonka's golden ticket. You're not going to unwrap one piece of wisdom and it's going to change your life forever. So how do you feel about that? Has it been cumulative for you in this hidden deals market? Finding the hidden.

Yeah. So I agree with what you said with one caveat. One mindset shift can change everything, right? So maybe you don't learn the one thing. So maybe it's not the one thing, you know, the golden ticket. But if you can have the equivalent of the golden ticket for your mind where you just start seeing things that you didn't see before, you interpret things differently, you're open to a different strategy, that can be the game changer. And I just think that you get that by surrounding yourself with, with the people that, you know are playing the game of life and business and investing the way that you want to play it, that have the family, maybe that you want to have, have all the other things. You know, the other thing that I would say is if you're unsure how to get started, you know, obviously trust those that have done it before and have gotten great results. But we're living in a time where in the last 40 years, we have the greatest inflation that we've ever seen. In the last 40 years. Well, of course we have more money being pumped into the system than ever before. We have trillions of dollars, $30 trillion. And by the way, this is just what we know about. It's actually greater than that.

Y.

Let's just call it, you know, $30 trillion. Let's just call, you know, call it what it is. In the last two years, we've had 40% of the money that's in circulation created in the last two years. Okay, so almost half of the money in circulation was just created. So there's no way on earth you will ever get me to believe that inflation is just 7%. That's what they said in December based on, you know, whatever, whatever odds and ends they chose to figure out the inflated prices but the reality is money is becoming worth less. There's more of it in the system. If you sit on cash, it becomes worth less every single day. So the thing to me that is the best thing to do is to buy an asset that is going to appreciate, ideally this asset, cash flows, so it can help you live a great life. And so that to me is like the starting point. How do you buy an asset that isn't going to go to zero? That when you buy assets, as monetary supply increases, the asset increases, they kind of keep up with each other, they become worth more simply because the cost is greater, because you have more money in the system. So owning assets keeps you in line with inflation. If you own the right assets, you get ahead, you can have greater returns. And if you own assets that have cash flow, well then in that instance, you are mitigating the risk of having to sell if the economy tanks. Because you don't. You're not trying to invest in something just based on the appreciation of it or the appraised value or what you could sell it for. You've got cash flow to sustain it. So to me that's kind of like ground zero. You know, build your cash flow, cover your bare minimum expenses, then eventually cover your lifestyle. But I mean, just cover mortgage and utilities and car payment and groceries. Just cover the basics. And I guarantee it'll feel like taking a backpack full of weights off. I mean, it's just, it's life giving. Yeah.

And then you can breathe better because you're not pinned down by the chest. So many people that are in our audience and that deal with the main pressure, it's either time or money. And I think there's a direct correlation between those and, and I don't know if people truly want to become millionaires. They really just want to be time rich.

Yeah.

They want to have time to spend with their friends and family. So as we wind down, what are just a few of the ways that we can get these assets that produce cash flow besides real estate and land real quick?

One thing I want to say, you said, you know, becoming millionaires, who cares if you're a millionaire, who cares? I mean, you can have a killer life based on cash flow and not have a million net worth and you can live an incredible life. I mean, before I had a million dollars in assets, I had cash flow that covered everything that I needed to cover. Right. And so I just want to say that to me, it is way more important to have the utility of cash flow for lifestyle than it is for Any net worth number. I mean, cash flow to me is king. But you know, a few ways that you can do it. I mean, there are certainly riskier ways than not. I mean, if you really want some. All right, so this is a long discussion that I'm trying to shorten down because there's a lot of different paths that people could go. Yes, there's a lot of ways to do it. Who knows what the next season of economic times are here in the US in the world. One thing I'll say is the world of private credit. When it, when you're basically, let's call it debt, debt credit interchangeable, let's just call it, you know, private credit. A good return where you're in a senior secured position, meaning you have collateral that equals or is greater than the dollars you have in an investment or in a loan that you're the first person to be paid back if something goes wrong. And you may just get that asset that is better than, you know, worth more than the amount that you have in. That's one simple way of doing it. Another way is by owning, you know, some sort of income producing real estate. Right. Another way is, I mean in the crypto space, I think it's a little bit riskier, but you can stake, you know, and, and I think that that one's not fail proof, but a lot of people are doing that. We don't know what that's going to look like in the long haul for sure. But I also think that there are strategic plays that you can do in private equity where you invest in a company and maybe you get a piece of the rev share, a profit share. You could get a royalty on something. You could, you know, advise and you know, set up an agreement. That way there are endless ways to get cash flow so it's less about what's right and what's wrong and more about like pick an asset that you think has value that isn't going to go to zero. In the stock market you can have stocks go to zero, they can become worth nothing. I've seen it happen. It's happened to me in real estate. It's probably not going to zero. You might lose money, but I don't think it's going to zero. And if you buy right, you probably are making money even if it decreases. In private equity there's a larger range, right? You invest in someone's business, well, you could do it in an equity play where you don't get anything and you wait for 10, 15, 20 years to see if anything Happens. Or you can invest in a way where you get a piece of cash flow or you can buy a business and you can buy a business that has the salary built in to have an operator run it so you don't have to run it. I mean, that was one of the best things I did. I bought a dog training company. I don't know anything about dogs, all right? I don't own a dog. I'm not. I mean, I like other people's dogs, but I don't know much about it. But I knew that that business had $75,000 allocated to the person that was running it. One of my partners that I brought in was working a corporate job. He was making $65,000 a year so I could bring him in to run it. He makes a ten thousand dollar pay raise and I give him a bunch of equity and now he is fired up. So I didn't have to do any work for that business. It was a cash cow. And then we ended up selling it at a year and a day for almost a 3x.

That's amazing. Okay, so people can go to your website, which we'll link below. But for somebody who's literally. And I go back to this again because I know a lot of people are in this space just beginning. Do you offer resources? Do you have a place where you send people where if they are just beginning, they can go?

Yeah. So I mean, I think, you know, checking out my book is probably the, the best first step for someone that wants to, you know, kind of do it at their own speed.

Yeah.

And you can go To Lifestyle Invest book.com for your audience that gives it to them for free. They just pay for shipping. Awesome. You can get it of course on Amazon. All the proceeds of my book, by the way, go to Love Justice International, which is an organization that worldwide is fighting human trafficking. And really the truth of it is that's a watered down term. They're fighting child sex slaving. And so I think it's a wonderful organization and doing just great things. So the book I want to be Financial Education for people. But I want it to also. I want the proceeds to buy freedom so people can gain financial freedom. I want children to gain real freedom. So that, you know, is, is the book. If you go to justindonald.com I've got, you know, all kinds of things there. I've got a blog, I've got a podcast, I've got an online course, a mobile home park course that we just released a masterclass, a mastermind the mastermind is, you know, we've got a bit of a wait list on that, and it's an incredible group, but that one will be. There's a barrier to entry for sure.

Sure. Okay, well, this is the book right here. So if y' all are interested in freedom, which. Yes, we are. Get the book. Number one Wall Street Journal, USA Today best seller. As we say goodbye, can you give us wisdom around wellness? Can you give us wisdom about what you believe wellness actually is? As you sit here with me today in the studio, like, how do you see wellness? How do you define wellness? What is wellness to you?

Wellness to me is being in a place where you feel great, that you feel great about those who you're around because you feel great about yourself. You've done the things to take care of you and feeding you, and you can be a resource then to others to steer them in a direction where they can become better or, you know, more wellness focused.

You said the word resource, which really hit me. And in order to be resourceful, we have to be response able. We have to be responsible. And I laugh because so much of my life I was really reactionary. I was just kind of flinching at responsibility. So can we just, like as Jordan Peterson says, can we bear the burden better and can we be more responsible? Can we fill ourselves first? Is a lot of what I felt. We covered a lot of ground, man, on this, on this podcast, and you've done a lot of interviews and, and your work is very nuanced. There's a lot of depth there. What did we not cover? What can you leave people with when it comes to being a lifestyle investor?

Well, in the book, you know, it's called the Lifestyle Investor, but the subtitle is the Ten Commandments of Cash Flow Investing for Passive Income and Financial Freedom. So it's a bit of a mouthful, but it's really my 10 criteria for why I invest, the way that I do, and what I look for in an investment. And so we covered one of them. We covered Invisible Deals number three. Right. But, you know, we've. There are nine other commandments that I think are just as important as that one. Some of them are, you know, a little bit of what we've talked about here today, but the very first one is Lifestyle first, and it's focused on how do you invest in a way, invest your time, invest your resources in a way that provides value to you, to the lifestyle that you want to live. And I think that that really sums it up. And I kind of bookend it with my tenth commandment of every dollar gets a return. Which is if you're going to spend money on professionals or masterminds or networking events and whatever else is you do that you are learning the lessons and really able to take that knowledge and use it for the future. Not pay someone else to do something so that they do it, but pay someone something so that they can teach you what they're doing so you have a baseline of that next time and to be involved in a group or many groups where you are resonating with those people and whether it's a group that you have assembled and it's just friends and you're meeting regularly, or whether you're paying to be in a mastermind with like minded people that are playing the game of life and business and investing at the level you want that you're getting a return on those dollars as well.

Man, it's a great conversation and you drop so many nuggets. They're right below you guys. Share this podcast if it resonates with you, if you have somebody in your life who feels disempowered when it comes to money and tell Justin and I see you again. We're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon. Sa.