Keith Norris: Bread, Circuses, & Mind Control | Wellness Force #Podcast

It is tense. So now you've got that going on. You put people in unusual circumstances. What is more unusual than social distancing and mask wearing? I mean, it is textbook mind control.

Hello, everybody. This is Josh Trent. I'm with a extra special guest today. This is Keith Norris. You've probably seen him either on wellness or on the Interwebs. But today we're getting the truth download, the ultimate truth download from Keith. Keith, thank you for coming on the show.

Absolutely. Josh, man, this is a pleasure and a long time coming for sure.

We were talking about doing a podcast last year at PaleoFX. So for people that don't know just if anybody's brand new, if they've been living under a rock, just tell people really quick, what is paleofx if they don't know, right?

So the easiest way to explain it is by if a high powered health, wellness and fitness show combined with Burning Man. That's kind of what PaleoFX is.

That's a cool way to describe it too. It's this really amalgam of like spirituality, personal development, nutrition, with a paleo lens and this. It's really cool because the exact lens that you and your wife and the entire tribe like you were talking about before we recorded, we all view our life from this either lens of how we were meant to be, how we were designed to live physically, emotionally, spiritually, or this lens of modern day America, which is what I call bread and circuses. Now, this show, we're going to dive into a lot of different aspects of truth with you. But before we begin, man, share with people why you even left corporate America. And maybe could you describe the bread and circuses that is going on in corporate America, Why you chose to even leave that in the first place and create Paleo with Michelle?

Right. Well, irony of all ironies, after I had a nine year military career, left the military after nine years. This was right after fall of the. Right after the fall of the wall. So this is, you know, early 90s, left the military, went to work for the pharmaceutical industry of all places. Because I thought, you know, I'm a, I'm a good person, I want to help humanity. And what better place to help humanity than big pharma? And oh, by the way, having, you know, grown up broke, having been in the military broke, I was ready to make some money. So I thought, this is a definite win. Win, right? So dove into corporate America, big pharma, and started cobbling away at the American dream, man, you know, U.S. navy vet, living the life, doing Everything that he was brought up to do, climbing the ladder, making money, buying stuff, bigger house, bigger car, kids in all the best schools, doing the thing. And then there was a certain point where both Michelle and I, who was also doing the same thing, not in the pharmaceutical industry, but in a different aspect of corporate America. Same thing, though, climbing the ladder. We both hit this point and we realized that we were unhappy inside and empty. And we couldn't figure out why. We couldn't figure out. You know, we, by every measure of where we grew up and where we came from, we had made it. I mean, we had climbed the mountain, we had done all the things, we had checked all the boxes and we were like, but what the hell? I mean, why are we so miserable? What is going on here? And that started, I think, some intense looking in the mirror and trying to figure it out and try and asking the question. The first time I ever asked the question was, is this American dream a lie? Have what I've been. Is this a lie? Is this what it's all about? And that was the start of it. And that was about 2004 ish when that started to come about.

Yeah. And the American Dream. I remember George Carlin talked about this and he's like, it's the American dream because it's only real when you're sleeping. And I'm not anti American. Like, I'm anti. I'm anti anything at all that takes away our freedom, our sovereignty, this word, sovereignty. We're all born as sentient sovereign beings and we all have the capacity to love, literally, without bounds, without limitation. And when I think about your. You know, it's funny, in your bio, you say you're a lucky soul that was able to transition out of a corporate America. I don't know if you were lucky, Keith. I think there's like a unique fire that burns inside of you. It's the same fire that's going to allow us to unpack a lot of the truths that are going on in the world right now in this podcast. Have you always had that fire inside that has made you, like, thirsty for the truth and go for it? Or is that something that. That really developed when you started Paleo, that hunger for the truth, the actual fire?

No, I've always had it. I mean, I always questioned and I think looking back on it was. I was so conditioned into this American Dream thing that there were certain questions that were out of bounds. Right. Like, even to question the American dream. Well, everybody knows, you know, a God, the American flag, red, white, and Blue in country.

Yeah.

And again, I'm saying this as someone who I would consider a patriot of all patriots. Right. I love what the United States stands for. Absolutely. I'm super proud of my service. I am repulsed right now at how it's been deformed by those in power. And I am even more ashamed that we, every one of us, allowed that to happen, myself included. And we were asleep at the switch. Right. We didn't rise up when we should have. When we should have. We didn't take action when we should have. And now we're in a jam. Right? And so that is my point. Do I believe in democracy? Absolutely. Do I believe in capitalism? Hell yes. It's our only way out of this mess.

Why do you think that is? Because some people would say that capitalism got us into this space.

Right? And capitalism, a deformed form of capitalism, which is what we see now, an.

Unconscious version, unconscious capitalism.

An unconscious capitalism and a capitalism that has been hijacked by the 1% in the banking elite. That is why we're in this jam now. They have at this point the majority of the power. They have the big lever because we gave it to them. And when I say we, you know, there was a time when the wool was easily pulled over Americans eyes. And that had to do a lot of propaganda in spin. And all of this stuff that we are very aware of now, those of us who are awake and can see the propaganda in spin. I mean, all you have to do is look at mainstream media. I don't care what side of the fence you're on, right or left, pick a topic and look at the spin either way and ask yourself, am I getting the true story? Right? Where is the truth of this story? Is it in the right? Is it in the middle? Is it in the left? What is it? I don't know. Because all I get is spin. And for my part, I say I know one thing, that is what Keith perceives directly with his senses, that I know. Everything else is suspect. Suspect.

Yeah. There's a big part. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but there's a big part that I have to mention right now and that is everyone is projecting on each other at all times. Don't you believe that? Your reality, Michelle's reality, any of the paleo tribes reality, Anybody that's watching this like our reality is ours. It's the reality that we project from our eyes onto other people. Where's the common thread in truth, in reality, where does that live?

Right, Right. And that's very Very hard to discern. That's why you have to sit back and observe. Sit back and observe and just see what's going on around you. Right. It's not that I fully pull myself away from mainstream media or the news or social media, but I dip in, see what's going on, and then I pull back and I ask myself, what is it that I actually perceive? What does my day to day look like?

Yeah.

So all that just for. Just to give you an example, when all of the riots started going down, I was like, I don't want to see what this looks like through any slant on mainstream media or YouTube or Twitter or whatever. I'm gonna freaking go down there and get in the middle of it, see what's going on. So I hopped on my bike, rode my ass over to downtown Austin and got in the middle of it, right?

Yeah.

I wanted to see what is going on here. What is my perception of what's going on right now? When it got too dicey, you know, Keith is a little bit older and wiser now. He got out of Dodge. But I wanted to be in the middle. I wanted to feel what it felt like to be there in that kinetic energy. I wanted to see who was there. Right. I wanted to see what people were pissed off about. I wanted to feel it. I didn't want secondhand information. I wanted to be down there and see what it felt like, what it was now, you know, was that logically a smart thing to do? Probably not. Right. But if you want to get to the truth, you have to be willing to put yourself on the line and go down and see what the hell is going on and not just be spoon fed information because I guarantee you someone is out to control you one way or the other.

Yeah. And it's not conspiracy theory because, you know, even the, you know, Operation mockingbird in the 60s and even the term conspiracy theory was created by people that don't want conspiracy theories to exist. Right. The CIA. So it's crazy to me that we have this, like, it almost feels in a way like this is the mounting of some type of civil war where it's like we all have to make a decision about what is true and what is not true. But there's a war going on inside of like our collective consciousness. And you and I have had many conversations about plant medicine and about really consciousness here in the 3D. From all of the journeys you've been through and from everything in your life, where do you think we actually are as far as a decision point? Of consciousness, of growth, of love. Like where exactly are we? Can you give us a state of the union on where you think we actually are as a collective right now?

Right. You know, this is very interesting. Michelle and I have talked about this and we, I don't know, about three or four years ago there was this exponential growth in people who wanted to find out about plant medicines and psychedelics, and not psychedelics for party use, but psychedelics for deep dive, self exploration, contemplation, that kind of thing. And I remember sitting back and watching this explosion and feeling this because it went from like nobody asking me about, about it or very few to just like every other person I ran into legitimately wanting to know, asking about it. And I thought, what is going on here? I mean, this is cool. Yes. But there's something in the universe that's causing all of these people to ask this. And Michelle and I talked about this and we truly believe that the universe is trying right now to wake up as many people as possible, to wake them up. And I think it doesn't take a whole lot of nudging to get people to get to the point, to question. And that's the biggest hurdle. Do I sit back and do I accept what I'm being told or do I say, hold on, I got you, I love you. Let me question that, let me think about that. Does that make sense? Do I feel like I'm being played? Do I feel like someone's trying to control me? Is there a narrative here of control? And who would want to control me? And why, why, why, why? Like a three year old kid, why, why, why? I guarantee you, if you continue to ask why, if you continue, continue, continue like a child does, by the way, because that's how children figure things out. They ask why and they're not embarrassed to ask why, which is another controlled mechanism to get you to shut down. Is asking why is seen as troublesome or someone's gonna throw some shame? Why would you ask why? It's obvious.

Yeah. And also it's hard to ask why when you're wearing a mask, which, which we've explored on the show with Dr. Ben lynch and many other physicians who are in the complete and total understanding, from a psychological perspective, from a biological perspective, when you're breathing in your own toxins, you're not going to be in a state of health, either mentally or physically. So now we're in a space where we're all understanding, okay, what is the truth? Let me take off my mask, let me stand up for what I believe in. Or how about this, Keith? Why don't we all just stand up and start the dialogue about what do we want to create together? Because the old paradigm is dying. This is what Zach Bush talked about on the show. Something is dying right now and we are all figuring out what do we want together? To be birthed. You know, what do you think that is what's coming through the canal here for Mother Earth and everyone.

That is absolutely the most exciting thing about all of this. Is all of this aggravating? Yes. Is this tremendously painful for a lot of people? I'm not tone deaf to that, man. I get it. It's painful for a lot of people. But this is the exciting part. The man, I'll just use that in quotes, says there's going to be a new normal. I say, yes, there's going to be a new normal. Not your new normal. My new normal. Your new normal. Josh, you get to decide. I get to decide what the new normal is. That's not a top down decision. Not anymore. If we choose it to be. So now we can roll over and play dead. And you better believe the man is going to create a new normal. I mean, that's what all of this is about. Or you can say, thank you very much, I love you. I'll create my own. Thanks.

Wow. To everybody watching right now or listening right in the comment thread, like, what do you think is being birthed? Let's have this conversation together. Because if we're all having a connected conversation, Keith, then we're not being distracted. You know, the title of this podcast is Bread and Circuses. This is in Roman times where the government would give people just enough bread to eat, just enough party and things in the coliseum to keep them mentally stimulated. But their hearts and their minds were almost sedated in the same way that we're being sedated now. We're in a modern day bread and circus with CNN and the mainstream media and everything that's going on. Can you expound upon that a little bit from your perspective? I mean, you interface with the top health leaders in the world, like, what are they saying? What do you feel about the bread and circuses we're experiencing right now?

Look, I am in a rather unique place because I have studied political science my entire life. In another life I would have been a constitutional attorney because that's where I was going in the military. And it just. I decided not to go to JAG school because I had friends I had gone to college with that went on to law School out of college when I went into the military. And by the time JAG school came up for me, they were already out of law school and working in firms. And they said, bro, you don't want any of this. Yeah, we guarantee this is not what you think it is. So I chose not to go to law school. But my. My whole reason for being at that time As a young 20 year old is I wanted to study constitutional law and I wanted to go to work for the aclu. That was my whole thing. I wanted to defend the Constitution against what I saw were egregious, egregious affronts to it. That was my reason for being that time. Then I got sidetracked into, you know, going into. Going into big pharma and, you know, a whole other game plan. It's one of those things where you back up and you're like, that was a fork in the road. Wonder how that. I wonder how taking the right fork would have worked out.

It's pretty perfect, though, Keith. It's pretty perfect for you because how could you understand how the beast moves unless you lived in its belly for a moment?

Right? Right. So, you know, looking at that and having my military background, so there's a couple of things I know very well. Propaganda. I know thought control. I know from having been to schools in the military about how to avoid thought control. I see that this is a textbook. It's textbook and it's ridiculous to me when I see it. And I'm like, do you guys not see what's going on here? I mean, this is in the equivalent of football of just running a dive. Right.

Can you share a little bit more about that so we can understand? You say it's textbook thought control. What about your time in the military and in the service allowed you to see that from that lens? Like, what do you mean textbook?

So the first thing you do if you want to control somebody or break them down is, number one, you confuse. Number two, you instill fear. Bam, bam. Right? What do we have going on right now? Confusion. The CDC doesn't wear a mask. Don't wear a mask, Wear a mask, don't wear a mask. They don't know. Social distancing. We don't know. 6ft, 12ft, 18ft.

Yeah.

I mean, the public is so freaking confused. Anyone on the street right now, what does the CDC say about mask wearing? I mean, they don't. Nobody knows. Yeah, shit. Yesterday, wear a mask. Today it's not wearing. Nobody knows. Then it's in. Still fear. Right. First Thing that came down the line, Covid. Next thing that kind of petered out was killer hornets. Now we've got all of this racial tension going on. Yeah, right. I mean, so then you've got fear. Now you've got people in the suburbs who are armed to the teeth. And I know because I live in the Texas suburbs right near downtown. It's tense. Yeah, it is tense. So now you've got that going on. You put people in unusual circumstances. What is more unusual than social distancing and mask wearing? I mean, it is textbook mind control. And it's. And you just see it and it's going on. If anybody thinks that all of this is about health, again, step back and ask, is this about health or is somebody trying to control me? And then the next logical question is, well, that sounds like a conspiracy theory, because who would want to control me for the money and follow the motives. Follow the money, follow the motives, and just keep asking why we have a.

Person that said the end of chemical interruption, of the absolute human connection to nature. Amen. Going back to ethical farming, new science, creativity. This is what so many of the ancient and even contemporary leaders have been speaking about, is when we sever our connection to nature and when we disconnect ourselves from Mother Earth. The further we do that, the further we disconnect from ourselves and from our brothers and sisters and from the real truth that's going on right now. Where do you think we can take this narrative, and where are you and Paleo taking this narrative right now?

Well, one of the things, and to piggyback on what you just said is decentralization, right? In neighborhoods. Take care of themselves, right? The more you can decentralize and bring power to your power back to your community and power back to yourself, the better off you are. And that is mentally, physically, emotionally, financially, across the board, everything is much. The more layers of interference you have between you and who controls the whatever, whether that be food, whether that be medicine, whether that be information, ideas. That's a problem because the more disassociated you are from that, the further you are away means fewer and fewer and fewer people control those levers. So think about who controls the mainstream media right now. I think it's like six different families, right? Do you think there's a whole lot of diversity going on there, or is it going to be pumped out one message against another message, right? So then you get these false dichotomies. You get right versus left, and it's a constant battle. It's never a talking Negotiation. Josh, how many people have you talked to face to face that might have totally different political ideas from you, that it's turned into a shit show? Or has it been normally like a give and take?

You bring up something really powerful. Really powerful.

Right.

Because there was a hijacking of the amygdala. Once we put energy in motion and we attach emotion to a viewpoint, it's almost impossible, even from a biological neuroscience perspective, to even hear somebody's side of is.

So just to give this an example, so I'm down at the protests in Austin, right. You would think that would be like, there's going to be a powder keg, and it was an emotional powder keg. But if you talk to a person, person to person to person, you can have a discussion with them.

Yeah.

What do you think? What do you think? I mean, you know, what's. What's going on. Right. You know, you can have that discussion. Another example, we are led to believe that there is just this unbridgeable gap between the races. I can tell you, I. All the time I spent in sports, all the time I spent in military, that is bullshit. You put people together, they get along. Yeah, they get along. It's when somebody else wants there to be a division, they will drive a wedge and force there to be a division. And why? Because they want to control you. That's. That's it. So they have an agenda.

Yeah.

They're playing sides against the other and they want to control you.

The intelligence of which you speak comes from you. Like you said, being in the military, understanding, thought control, having true experience in this. This isn't like you're just anecdotal viewpoint. You came from that world. Like, that was the world you came from. If you could wave a magic wand right now and for any of us, if you have an idea of what we all could do together, please let us know in the comments. But, Keith, if you could wave a wand, man, and you have a pretty big wand, I mean, with the circle and the types of people that you hang out with and interface with, what would that magic wand do right now? Like, what's the antidote here? What's the medicine we're all needing?

Dude, I'll tell you what this is. And I have always said this. There's an old saying that says there are no atheists in foxholes. Right. But also, there are no racists in foxholes either. I mean, when you are put in a situation where my life depends on you and your life depends on me, I guarantee you, you go Colorblind really fast. Even if you did come in, right. I was in the military with kids from the deep south, and this has been back a few years. Any hint of any kind. Of any kind of discrimination gone. When you have to count on that guy for your life and he counts on you, that goes away very, very quickly and to a lesser degree in sports, same thing. I got your back, you got my back. We got a job to do. Let's go do this right. You don't have time for that bullshit. And nobody's driving a wedge between you. You are figuring it out on your own. So if I can make. If I could wave a magic wand, it would be that somehow, some way, people are able to be put together in a crucible where they have to depend on one another, because that will eliminate any kind of. I'm telling you. Will go colorblind in a hurry or you will be cast out because you are going to be a disruption to the entire unit, and we can't have that. Yeah, you're going to get everybody killed. Right. It gets washed out in a hurry, so. But it's. Again, it's really easy to sit back and watch your TV and not interact with anybody and get on Twitter and Facebook and just stir up a shitstorm everywhere. Sorry, you're gonna have to bleep out half of this.

No, it's good. You can go for it, man. Let it rip. I mean, we're live. There's people on here with us, and people are already commenting. Danielle and Jared and many people have already left comments. And I feel like we all want to have the strength and the courage to have this conversation, yet taking courage and putting courage into action is really what the powers that be are using against us. And it's not about conspiracy theory. It's like, hey, look, y'. All. Having courage is challenging. That's why not everyone's courageous. That's why. You know, when the yellow brick road, when they were walking down to go see the wizard, that's why the lion had to develop his courage. Because courage is not something we're born with. It's like courage is something that we grow over time. Like, what kind of courage do you think we all need to have right now that's actually going to bring us together? Like you're talking about.

You have to have the courage to, number one, question your own motives. Number two, question what lens you are seeing things through. That takes courage, man, for someone to ask themselves, my beliefs. If I question my own beliefs, where does that leave me? Because that's standing on shifty ground. Right. I've got to have these things that I believe in firmly because that gives me solid ground to stand on. But how do you know that those stories that you've created in your mind are actually true? How do you know they're still. How do you know they're true at all? And B, are they true for you? So, and I think to circle back, this is one thing that plant medicines and psychedelics help people to do. They put them in a, in a situation where it. They feel safe, number one. And number two, they can disassociate enough from whatever that story is to where they can look at it objectively and question it. I can look at this story, question it. Kind of like I did with the American Dream.

Yeah.

Step back, question it. Number one, who told me that story? And number two, do I believe that story? Do I believe that access to, in the ability to own more and more material goods, a never ending chase for material goods, is that fulfilling my soul? And if not, what would fulfill my soul? And just to ask that question. And back in 2004, that was a hard question for Keith to ask because I was like, dude, I have told myself this story for 30 years.

Who told you this story?

Exactly. My culture told me that story. My culture told that this is the way it is. Right. And the problem is you get fed these stories at a point in your life. Some of them are good, some of them are helpful, but some are not. But you get your hard drive written on at a point where you don't even know to question. You know, the first seven years of life, you're just a programmable machine by design. I mean, we as humans are that way by design. It's a good design. Until it's not.

Yeah.

Then you have to go back and start erasing all of that stuff. And that's painful because just the fact of going back to question this. And then there's sunk, sunk loss fallacy. Right. I've believed this for 30 years. What am I going to do now? Change course? Oh my God. I've got to write another story. The last 30 years has been a lie. Are you kidding me? That's the toughest part of waking up, is I've lived all of this time. Are you telling me that everything that I believed in up until now is a lie? Yeah, maybe. How are you going to know if you don't question it? And what's the choice? It's kind of like I don't want to start playing piano now because it'll take me five years to, you know, be able to play Chopsticks. Okay. Five years from now, you're still not going to be able to play the piano. So what, I mean, what's, what are you going to do if you really want to play the piano? You know, one step at a time, Chop wood, carry water? Let's get started. There's a questioning your belief.

There's a collective gut check moment that we're all in. And it's beautiful, it's powerful. Someone that I totally respect, his name is Sean Stevenson from the Model Health show. And he echoes exactly what you and I are speaking about. And that is we're in this beautiful phase right now. And I, and I know you feel the same way. I'm not disrespecting or belittling or, or legitimizing, delegitimizing these people that are dying or people that are suffering. Like it's real, man. There's like 60, think of that number. 60 million people either that don't have a job or in massive financial stress. That is a mind boggling number. And by the way, that's just in the USA. The world is experiencing this on a 5000x model. So in no way is, is what I'm going to say, taking away from that pain. But I know in my life, man, whenever I have gone through extreme periods of pain and thresholds of pain, there's something so beautiful. I mean, it gets me choked up. Like I feel the emotion just sharing it with you. There's something so beautiful on the other side, but it's so challenging to see it when we're in the pain and if we're not conscious enough, if we're not aware enough and we become a slave to our pain, a slave to our biology and our amygdala, well, then the consciousness will never come through. Can you share what that means for you?

Yeah, it's the, you know, I think about this often. It is, I go back to 2008, so I'm a survivor of the 2008 housing crisis. I don't want to go into what was Keith and Michelle story, but we went from having everything, living the American dream in 2008, rocking and rolling, having all that, to very quickly teetering on bankruptcy because of the 2008 housing crisis, which in retrospect you look at and you go, we got out of that by the skin of our teeth. But there was a lot of people who did not get out of that. And if you think that somebody is not angry and would like five minutes in a cage with some of the elite bankers that perpetuated this farce on the US you damn well believe it. I would love five minutes in a cage with them. Right. There is some serious anger still about that. And it is a seething anger that I'm not proud of. But it's there. I know it's there. I can't even remember what the question.

Well, no, I mean, the question was. And see, it's. It's so beautiful, man. You're a leader, yet you're still human like we all are. You can even get caught up in an emotion that you feel that takes away your breath. And the initial question was, when we look at that, at that anger mode where our amygdala gets hijacked, our breath gets taken away. The gift of consciousness, the gift of the rebirth. Whatever's coming for all of us on the other side of this, it can't be seen or felt or heard because we're a slave to our biology. It just happened right now for us to all see.

Exactly. Again, it's one of those things that I am not happy about. I hate that I get hijacked like that. And I do, and I do my best to control it. So out of 2008, Michelle and I had a question. You know, we're standing right in front of it. We're like, you know, we can fold. We can go back to working for corporate America. We can do that, right? We can dig ourselves back out of this hole, or we can hold true to our course, which we had set back in 2006. Ish. 2005. The course at that point was save up enough, quote unquote, fuck you money and bail and figure it out after everybody.

Everybody's had that thought, let's be honest.

Yeah, we were on. We were on track for that. The problem was all of our fuck you money was tied up in real estate. And that overnight, along with everything else, vanished. Then we were like, okay, well, what now?

Yeah.

And the answer was, we're going forward. We don't know how, we don't know where these resources are going to come from. We don't even know what we're going to do. But we know what we're not going to do. We're not going back to what we did because that's a sinkhole. We're going to live one way or the other. And so we press forward. And the whole idea was that's shiva energy for some big monumental to change. And, oh, by the way out of all that hell came Paleo effects. That's right. So, you know, there were some other awesome companies. Uber came out of 2008. Airbnb came out of 2008. You think of all these people that just got throat punched during that time that said, okay, time to recreate. What are we going to make? What does the world want now?

Yeah.

And that, that generally does not happen. That kind of monumental change until you get shaken to your core. That's when you make the big steps. That's when you make the big changes coming out of this. I guarantee you there's going to be monumental, monumental things come out of this. And this is making 2008 look like child's play.

Yeah, it is.

So I am super excited to see what comes out of this period.

Wow. I guess there's so many things to unpack there. Man, I love the way you put that because so many of us are dealing with the vice. Like, you know, in a workbench, there's a vice and we're being squeezed so hard right now. Something is going to come out of that. We don't exactly know what it is. But you know what I feel, man, and I'm curious what you think about this. I feel like what's going to come from this is exactly what happened for me when I was doing the 20x with Mark Divine 14 hour overnight doing Murph with soaking wet clothes. Like just craziness. And it was. When we're all suffering together, it is our shared suffering that actually brings us to one another. And you talked about it earlier. It's like when we're going through something so insane, like this is. This is absolute insanity and chaos. The only way we find order is by turning to one another, opening our hearts and holding each other as we all go through the suffering. Like, that's it. That's all we get.

And that's. I mean, if you look at any finely tuned organization, any. I mean, you know, I go back to, you know, football training into a much lesser degree, football training camp. What happens there? Well, you're about four weeks of being shut down and they just beat you to death. Yes. Right.

Hell week.

All the way through that. They, they ease off the gas about a, about a week before the first preseason games and then it's on. Why did they do that? Because they want to hone that idea of the only way we're going to get through this is me and you. And what does that translate into during the season? The two minute drill. Right. When you're in the opposing stadium, you have 80,000 people who are just screaming. You can't hear anything. You're down by three. And it's just you and the other 10 guys on the field, right? And you, you've got to figure it out, put it together. Same thing happens in the military. Why is military training so rigorous? Right? Because when you get in the mix, the only person you have to trust and to back up on each other is a guy to your left and the guy to your right, and that's it. And you have to have that trust. The same thing's happening now. It's just in a different kind of a way. If we choose to do it this way. Right? So I can see, like, right now, Michelle is talking to another entrepreneur downstairs. I can hear them talking. I know she's over there. They're planning, what are we doing next? What's the next move? What's the next move? That type of talk is going on all around, everywhere now in the world. Everywhere.

Yeah.

Yes. I can't tell you how many Skype calls that we've been on with other entrepreneurs. Okay? We've got this skill. We've got this skill. We've got this clientele. We've got this clientele. What are we going to do? What are we going to make? What can we put together both to add value to people and B, to keep ourselves afloat and keep running? What is it people need right now? What is it they want?

Keith, let me ask you this, man. First of all, the way you describe things, this is like the best podcast conversation I've had with somebody of your stature. Because you could choose to just be like, all right, I'm going to just plan the next Paleo and not get involved with anything and not try to iterate. You could actually choose to not do what everyone else is doing. And my question for you is this, man. Like, yes, we're going to create our new normal together, and it ain't going to be what some dude on an ivory tower says. It's going to be like, not on my watch, not on yours. But what is this new normal that we're all creating together? And I hate even saying that phrase because that's brainwashing phase.

I do. Because it got hijacked right out of the gate by those in power. Right? It totally got hijacked right out of the gate. The new normal. I get it, man. That's a whole propaganda stand. They jumped on it before we did. But, you know, I'm doing the jujitsu right back on. It's normal. Yeah. Not your new normal, bro. Our new normal.

Yeah. So how do we not get stuck, though, in zoom is the only way. You know, I've been on so many zoom calls in the past 60 days. Like, if I never do a zoom call again, I'm okay. At least this. We're sharing it with other people at the same time while we do it, you know? But. But how do we. How do we become aware enough and conscious enough and intelligent enough to not get caught in. What's your advice for us to not get caught in? Oh, it's okay that we don't meet in person. It's okay that I wear a mask and it's okay that we only do zooms. And that could be the new normal. And this is just how it's going to be. Like, what do you have to say to that?

Right? So, you know, being in discussions with the city about Paleo effects, it's very. It's very interesting how they position it, right? So they're. So the city is very crafty. Government's very crafty. They're like, we're not canceling you, but this is a criteria you have to meet to be able to put on a show, which is fucking ridiculous. It's not. It can't be done.

What's the criteria?

So they flip the onus back on you. Well, there's certain criteria. Like, you can't have more than. I think it was like 300 people under a roof at any one time. And social distancing. And everybody's got to wear a mask and temperature control, temperature readings and yada da da da. This laundry list of stuff. Well, the 300 people under one roof were already like, oh, okay, can't have that. So then you think about, okay, and these are the talks that we're having now. Do we have, like, mini events throughout the U.S. right? It's not the Paleo effects, It's not the big show, it's not the big everybody, you know, come together, Burning man meets fitness thing that we had wanted. But that might be the only way out right now. I can guarantee you that. We are constantly looking and trying to figure out new locations. Does it have to be in Austin? We would love for it to be in Austin because, you know, it's been here every year. But just because that's the way it always was doesn't mean that's the way it has to be going forward. So we're constantly looking both on the live side. Where can we go together? As many people as we want together in one area. What does that look like? Where is that? And what do we do in the interim? Right? In the interim. PaleoFX really, you know, we were starting to touch on being a platform in between events. But, you know, to tell you the truth, that's not where my heart was. That's not where Michelle's heart was. We are live people.

Yes.

We like to hug and be together and do all of that and you can't do that virtually. But we have to make, you know, we have to pivot to be able to get to that place where we can again be with live people and hug and, you know, have a, have a throw down party. We're going to have to put out something of value for the tribe. And so we're trying to figure that out too. But it's a collaborative effort. I think this is a big thing right now. If there's one word that I would want to yell from the top of the mountain, it is collaboration. Because nobody's going to get through this on their own. It's going to be a collaboration. And this is one beautiful thing that I've seen from entrepreneurship all over. Every entrepreneur I know is not crawling back and like putting up the barriers. They are reaching out and saying, a, how can I help you? And B, how can you help me? Let's figure this out together. Yeah, it's massive collaboration, which I love and it's not top down imposed. This is me wanting to collaborate with you.

I have a sense, I'm sorry to interrupt you because I have this sense about the way that we grow and it's never from comfort. It's not just something that, like people write in personal development books. We only grow. Nature only grows. Human beings only grow when we're compressed. And it's that burning fire that I mentioned in you that allows us and allows the human spirit to flourish. We're designed for this. Like this is what we're trained for. This is what we. All the people that I know, Keith, that are silent, that aren't talking about COVID that are just waiting for this quote storm to pass. I've been dealing with an incredible amount of anger from them. People that have top podcasts in this world, I'm not going to name names, people that are silent, they're not saying a damn thing because they're just hoping that they're bottom line and they're hoping that this goes away. This isn't going to go away. Spirit has brought us this gift so that we will Speak our truth so that we can create something new together. What is your sense on this? And have you felt that frustration or are you looking at it in a different way?

You know, I, I can control what Keith does, and that's it. That's the way I look at it. Right? So if people don't confront, they don't want to. They don't want to come out, they don't want to speak their minds, they don't want to, you know, I, I. All I can do is hold space for them, right? I love them. Child of God, I love you. That's not my path forward, though.

Got it.

So I, you know, I hold space for you and everything. But to your point, yes, there is a time for comfort. There is a time to kick back on the beach with a tequila and watch the sunset, but you're not going to grow there. You're not going to grow. You grow by being thrown in the fire. That's where it happens. Yes, it's a balance. It's a yin yang. Spend too much time in the fire, you burn out. Spend too much time on the beach drinking tequila, you don't grow. I mean, it's, it's just. It's a balance, man. And sometimes you get thrown out of balance because of the world around you, and you can't help that. I mean, shit happened. Yeah, Covid happens.

Yeah, right.

This stuff happened. So now is the time to be in the fire. Is not a time to be, in my opinion, not a time to be kicking back, drinking a tequila on the beach right now when it's happened. And so let's make it happen.

If you could reference this, man, you know, our, the discussion we had earlier about our biology and how we become hijacked. You even had a moment where you're like, I forgot what I'm saying. You know, if you could, if you could describe that for all of us, and then if you could give a calm, rational, Lao Tzu, middle way type advice to us, what would that be right now? The middle way advice as we, as we move into this new birth, Right?

It's so. I would have everybody remember that right now, those who are looking to control you are looking for you to react. That is exactly now, really, those in control don't care if you react on the left side of things, on the right side of things, or whatever, because they're playing both sides and all sides. They're going to win either way. The only way, they don't win as if there's calm and no reaction. That is how they don't win. That is their only play. But they are banking on just spinning people up. Spinning people up, getting them spun up. And believe me, they're going to win either way. I gave an example not too long ago about Roger Goodell who is the commissioner of the NFL and I said, do you really think that Roger Caddell gives a damn who wins the Super Bowl? Does he give a damn? No. He promotes, right, he pokes, he gets all of this fanfare going up around the NFL but he, he doesn't care who wins the frickin Super Bowl. Yeah, he doesn't care. That's not, that's not his, his is to spin it up and hype and all of the other. That's his position, right? If you don't think that same thing is not going on on the geopolitical stage, I mean you're just not, you're not awake, man. Yeah, you gotta step back, take a breath and see this for what it is, right? You are being spun and being spun up to create number one a diversion and number two a profit for somebody else. And just remember that this, this is.

The conversation that I think we all can sense is going on. Yet like we talked about earlier, the courage to have this conversation is for the warrior right now. Like to be an actual warrior doesn't mean that you from a place of anger and righteousness and all these crazy things. It means as you had, honestly as you had checked me on right now, I was sharing why aren't these people speaking? And I became trapped. My own amygdala, you know. At the same time the true warrior right now is, is head to heart connected. The true warrior right now knows that like the heart and the head are not separate things. We can be smart and intelligent together and we can use our hearts to connect with one another. It's not us being around a fire, playing guitars, it's real life. We're co creating this right now. If you could put us around the fire, what would you say if we were around the fire together? I mean this is a collective fire that we're feeling right now.

So this, this is one thing that has come to me in, in many plant medicine journeys. And it's kind of, it's come to me in different aspects but the theme has always been the same. And I've gone into this and one of my big question is how do I know when to fight and how do I know when to let be? That's been like my biggest life's question, right. And it's something that I contemplate continually because I'm like, I understand let go and let be and all of that. I totally understand that. But at a certain point, nothing happens without action, right? So where is. How do I know when the appropriate time to fight is and everything I've always. The message that I have received from plant medicine, if you want to call it Pachamama or the universe speaking to you, whatever you want to call that intelligence is, you will know in your heart of hearts when it is time to fight. You will know who your true opponent is. It will be made apparent to you. Trust your intelligence on this. On the flip side, you will know from your own innate intelligence where truth and love is. You will know. Trust your innate intelligence. But the only way you can sit back and trust your innate intelligence is to stand back, take a breath and don't get caught up in the whirlwind around you. You have to be quiet and you have to be in a calm place to listen to your, to yourself, to listen internally. If you get caught up in the fanfare, it's not going to happen. So I think about that in moments like when I just lost my shit with you about the cage match with the Banking Elite, right? And I have done this work for so long and it still squeezes out. That's how deep that programming is. But the quicker you catch it and you're able to spin it and set yourself right, the better off you are and the better decisions you will make down the line.

Well, let's explore this because, you know, if you look at Hawkins scale, if you look at the emotional ladder that we all walk at all times, anger is so much more powerful than despair and there is so many people in despair. So who's to say, who's to judge that anger can't be a form of love? Anger can be love if it's coming from a grounded, heart centered place. I'm not talking about irrational anger where we're just blah, spazzing. I'm talking about grounded conscious anger right now. That's okay, that's welcome, that's valid. Don't you feel that that can be a form of love?

Absolutely. And it's the same thing is there is no real physiological difference between excitement and fear, Right? They're the same thing. How is that being interpreted by your brain? Right? It's the exact same thing. And the key to being able to flip fear to excitement is being able to somehow flip that switch in your mind, right? So just kind of a benign example. But in the last couple of years I have. Well, I've always had to deal with stage fright. I don't know where that came from. I don't know what the. I don't know what.

I think it's because when I was 11, I fell on a stage when I was doing a play and it got like embedded at an early age. It's all childhood, man. It's all childhood.

Somehow it into my mind and I, you know, and I've tried to go back and actually try to find the event that caused that and I haven't been able to. So I've just been, okay, it is what it is.

It got you just practice surrender there, huh?

Right? I was just like, okay, whatever reason that story is in my mind now, what do I do about it? One of the, one of the tricks is to be able to. And the same thing happens. Sweaty palms, you know, all the things before I go on stage and I've gone through this, I'm like, dude, this is ridiculous. Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. I mean, what are you scared of? I mean, my God, you've been through the frickin military, been through all that and you're gonna scared to get on stage in front of people, you know. So I used that route for a while and that was kind of, that was kind of like putting a clamp down on things. And then I worked with, you may know him, Bo Eason in California.

I've heard of him. Yeah.

And Beau told me simply, he's like, dude, you are in a perfect position to be a public speaker. And I'm like, say again? He's like, all you have to do. And you know this because you have been involved in sports. Flip that fear to excitement because it's the same thing. He. And he told me, what does it feel like or what did it feel like when you were in the tunnel and you were getting ready to run out before a big game? What did that feel like? And he brought me through. What your stomach feel like? What'd your hands feel like? What? You know, everything, your senses, everything was alive, everything was firing. You talk. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, kind of the same way you feel before you step on stage. Now just flip that around. That's not fear, that's excitement, bro. You're getting ready to go out and kick ass. It's such a simple. It's not simple. The smallest flips of the switch are sometimes the hardest things to do because it is so subtle. Yeah, but I went through that And I practiced that. And so. And again, I can't remember how we got on this, but it's all of those mental Jedi tricks, right? It's all of those little, small mental Jedi tricks that make the difference. That is the difference between being able to sit back, calmly assess the situation, and make a rational decision from there instead of getting caught up in the whirlwind over here and the whirlwind over there, because you cannot make a rational decision from that point.

Well, I love, first of all, your heart, man. I just love who you are as a person and what you do in the world. How you honor your wife, your family, your daughter, who's no longer with us. Like, the way that you have created this path is so fucking admirable. And it makes me get chills because it's so rare that I feel this way about somebody. And there's, like a handful of people in my life that allow me to have this feeling, and you're one of them. Paul Check is one of them. Ayana Lahey, one of the healers that I've worked with, is one of them. There's a few other people in the world, and there's something unique that I feel in you, and that is just this decision that you've made at some point. I don't know when you made the decision, but you made the decision that all of us are making right now, and that is, I will not die without giving as much love as possible, without doing something to make a dent in this universe. So that when the pages of the Book of Humanity are turned, people will look back and be like, wow, you know, he. He really cared about us. Wherever they are reading it, how do you feel right. How do you feel right now about. And I'll pause right there, because I just. I really feel that for you, man. And I'm. I'm wondering how you feel about the page now. You know what? We're all writing on the page together as we say goodbye, because we're wrapping up the podcast now. Like, can you. Can you share with us how we can consciously and really, in an egalitarian way, write this new page together? What are some tactical things we can be doing from this conversation? Let us know, by the way, how you feel about this conversation, because this has been one of my favorites, man.

Appreciate it. Everything you said, I received that, and I appreciate it. And I love you as a brother, so I would say that. It's funny. Michelle and I, a couple of nights ago, we were beat up. I'll be quite Honest, it had been one of those days. We had tangles with the city. We found out where we were with Paleofx and it was one of those. We were just at the end of our ropes and we sat there for a moment and we said, back in 2008, this is exactly where we wanted to be. Exactly. We are ready for this. Right? We consciously made the decision that material comfort was not doing it for us. And we made the wholesale decision to bail and do exactly what we're doing right now. And it, in that moment, it changed a shitty day into like, yeah, you're right. We did. We did ask for this. I mean, and we love this. I mean, this is really. This is what it's all about, man. This is like, oh, the shit's coming down all around you and what's going to pull you out of this? But the tribe that you created, right? And it's a. It is a co collaboration. I pull you up, you pull me up, both of us pull that guy up and it's just. And you rise out of the ashes. And that, man, that is when I envision myself passing out of this realm into whatever awaits in the other realms. That is what will make me, like, light up. Yeah, we fucking did something, man. It wasn't big house, big car, kids in the best schools, all of that. Who fucking cares? Who cares about that?

Yeah.

I mean, after you reach a certain level of comfort, who cares about that? Yeah, nobody cares about that. And certainly you will not care about it when you're on your deathbed. You just won't. But what you will. And this sounds like, you know, it sounds like a trite thing and people hear it, you know, what will you think about on your deathbed? But I think about that a lot, man. I think about how many people I love and how many people love me back. And I have truly felt that love from them. That is what matters, man. And that is why we incarnated on this earth is to feel that we came. Just my opinion, we came here to teach, we came here to learn, and we came here to both give and receive love. And yeah, so I would say to people, you know, go out and learn, teach, give and receive love.

Yeah.

And that's what it's about.

Well, man, what a powerful conversation. There's so many things that I want to share. We're going to continue to talk about this in the group. It's wellnessforce.com group. We're also going to be linking paleo effects so people can get involved. But Keith man, like, how can all of us support you and Michelle right now?

Well, we'll, we'll let you know, I would say, you know. Right. Still through. We're still trying to figure that out ourselves. You know, we will, we will reach out to the tribe and we will let people know how they can help us going forward.

Great.

And you know, Michelle and I have always said this has been a co collaborative process from the get go. This has never been the Keith and Michelle show. It has been the tribes show. All we did was provide the platform and whatever that platform looks like moving forward, it will be the decision of the tribe, you know, and Michelle and I will do what we can, whatever that direction is, to make it happen.

All right, well, we'll be here waiting and so will everybody that's been on this broadcast and also, you know, with us on itunes and everywhere else. Keith, two years ago we had this conversation, I think it was a year and a half ago on the podcast. And I asked you. There's a nexus for all of us and it's emotional, spiritual and physical health, wellness, intelligence, all these ways that we're playing and having fun and learning, like you said on the planet. But if we're not listening, if we don't take the time to listen to what somebody's saying, then we'll never be able to do what I believe is the most important thing, and that is embody, embody the intelligence. What do you think about wellness now? Like, with everything that you've been through and everything that we're going through, how would you define wellness? You know, at the center of this nexus of all those things, like, what does it mean to live our life well? What is wellness now? What is wellness to Keith?

Right. I, you know, I kind of take the antifragile approach to, you know, to steal a term from Nassam Talib. But my, my in my picture of wellness is being an antifragile entity in the seven pillars of health and wellness. That would be mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, financial, tribal and relational in all of those areas. And just to be an anti fragile entity in all of those areas. And to the extent that you can do that, I mean, we could, you know, you don't have to be at all tomorrow or today, but you can take steps towards each of those, bettering each of those seven pillars every day. I still do, man. I'm still, I'm still learning, I'm still growing. And I think the other thing too is for people to understand that you are never there. You're never There. You're only approaching there. And you can get closer to quote unquote, there. But you're never gonna. You're never. And to be okay with that. Yeah, be okay with it. Wow.

I'm. I'm so touched and honored that we had this time. As always, it's perfect. We tried to do this podcast for a while and of course, you and I are coming together right now when this type of narrative is most needed. So I just want to honor you, put my hands together, just. Thank you, man. Thank you for being a friend and a brother and having the courage to speak your truth in the way you do. It's been a total honor to do this with you and, and I want to let everybody know you can support Wellness Force. You know, we bring you all this powerful content and these truly heart to head connected conversations with men and warriors like Keith. Support us. Go to Breathwork IO get the Breathe program. This program is bringing everyone back to their bodies. Keith, if we're not breathing, man, we can't do anything. If we're not breathing properly, do an ayahuasca ceremony. Try not to breathe.

See?

Tell me how that works out for you, you know, so thank you, man.

I'll just put a pitch. The most underappreciated human function there is. You can do so much with breathing and breath work, and it's free. I mean, it's all you have to do is learn some techniques.

So learn. Learn the techniques with us@breakwork IO and Keith, thank you for being here, man. You're such a brother and I just so appreciate you. So until we see all of you again, Keith and I are both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.

It.