This is a conversational interview (Josh Trent interviewing Kelly Brogan) focused on personal sovereignty and the "power of choice." Brogan reflects on moving from a victim/activist posture during the pandemic toward "sovereignty," emphasizes choosing actions over proving others wrong, and discusses managing protection of children versus constant vigilance. She references therapeutic frameworks (Internal Family Systems, parts work) and recounts receiving threats related to earlier writings.
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One of the cardinal elements of a sovereign mindset is exercising your power of choice without needing someone to be bad or wrong in order to lay claim to that right. So in the past 72 hours, I've had like, a number of. I don't know what's up in your life, but something's up in mine. I've had a number of shifts and.
Like, I'm a new parent, so there's always something up in my life.
Amazing. Yeah, it's just been a funny, funny couple of days because I've had, like, in. In the real estate world, in a. In a very dear friendship, in. In my life. And then in my business, I have had, you know, an opportunity to recognize where I am, as I call it, trying to buy eggs from the hardware store where I am sourcing something that's really not available and kind of like semi insisting that it should be.
And.
And that can lead to ruptures. Right, where you sort of both parties are seeing, like something is not working here.
Yes, yes.
And that is in. In my spiritual worldview, you know, that is the opportunity for me to get real with myself and to say with sober mind, sober heart, sober eyes. What are my choices here? And can I interact with this painful process without needing the individuals that I am in dynamic with to be bad and wrong? What if they're not bad and wrong? And yet I still get to choose. I get to choose to exit. I get to choose to express my needs. I get to choose to make requests. I have all sorts of choices, and I would never be aware of those choices if my energy was focused on being right about how wronged I've been. And that's the bait that we can take. So when you said, you know what, what did I mean by taking the bait? Yeah, I did take the bait in the early part of the pandemic where I. And that's how I probably made it on that illustrious list, because I. I needed everyone to know how right I was about how wronged we all were.
That's so honest. So honest. Because people probably felt it differently than your awareness now. They were probably thinking and feeling from you, oh, she's taking care of us. Not, oh, she's in her righteousness.
Because they're also in their victim consciousness. And that's fine. It's a match. You know, it's just that I left the allopathic system. I was a match for that in my consciousness and my belief system as a victim. And then I just sort of like subtly transitioned. I greenwashed it. Right. And I subtly transitioned it into the activism space and you know, had grew a huge following and had a lot of success because there's a lot of folks in that consciousness. Right. And there still are. And as I've transitioned into wherever it is that I'm transitioning, which is to really focus on my inside work and to begin to explore the edges of sovereignty and just sort of dip a toe in. I certainly wouldn't describe myself as a sovereign woman. I'm just learning what that means. But my sense is that it is really non referential. Right. It's not, it's non oppositional. It's not that I am against and it's not that I'm not against. Right. It's just that it's like irrelevant.
There's a space in between though, because love protects children. Like if somebody attacked your daughters, you would defend, but you're not welcoming that attack. You're just defending if it comes by. So there's the other side of that, where we're in constant hyper vigilance and defense mode, where it really, like nature, abhors a vacuum, attracts those kind of experiences to us. Go into that a little bit. That's important.
Yeah, that's. That's, you know, I don't pretend to be a law of attraction expert by any stretch, nor am I even thoroughly a believer.
I think it's the most misabused, misunderstood thing out there. Loa. I mean, people make lots of money on YouTube with it, but I don't know if people really get the essence of what it is, like how to embody that.
Yeah, I mean, my. My sense is that it can also be a distraction to imagine that there's like some kind of special ritualized way to get what you want instead of recognizing that every single thing that is happening that you don't like or you don't want, and maybe this is at the heart of it, I don't know. But is an opportunity. I just call it enter through the upset. Like any single thing I don't like about my day or about an interaction or about a direction that my life is going in for me is an opportunity to meet a part of myself. And I'm very, very passionate about internal family systems, parts work, family constellation work. Because I have met dimensions of myself that would otherwise have remained arrested behind a shame wall probably for the rest of my life. And the truth is that everyone can feel your shame. Right. Like you're only as empowered as your darkest secret. And it's felt, you know, it's felt. And that's why our, like, what it is to be like in a room together, like what it is to be with someone, what their physical appearance, how it manifests it, it shifts as we begin to desecret these aspects of ourselves. And really to our own awareness. Right. Like that is the, the all seeing eye is really like our own, our own conscious awareness, our own masculine energy, if you will.
We absolutely get to go into ifs and schwartz. But can we go back like to that juxtaposition where on one side you're the mother protecting her children, I'm the father protecting my children. And then also we don't want to be in vigilance mode to the CDC and you know, the doctrines and dogma that's coming down from a place of fear itself.
Yeah.
So how do we manage those two?
So I have found. Right. So in. In 2016, there was a barrage of death threats that I experienced, like on social media, on Facebook at the time, before I was uninvited to play on.
Facebook from the Rogan podcast.
No, actually it wasn't. It started with a home birth article that I wrote, believe it or not.
Right? That's right.
Super funny and weird. Or not. And it was a bunch of pharma subsidized, quote unquote feminist groups. And it's interesting how I've come through this arc of understanding feminism as a construct.
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