Lisa Perkins: You Are Not One Size Fits All

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Wellness force radio episode 85 with precision, nutrition and lifestyle coach Lisa Perkins.

Rules minus relationship equals rebellion. So what does that mean when we impose rules upon ourselves, either from an external plan or just rules that we're putting on ourselves if we don't have a solid relationship with ourself, that trust that we're going to nourish ourselves, that we know that we're going to follow through on what we said that we would do. If that's kind of a sketchy relationship there, that's going to end in rebellion. Easy is earned. And yes, you do have to pay attention to some of these things, just like when you're learning any new skill.

Welcome back to another episode, my friend. I am your host and wellness coach, Josh Trent. Thank you for spending your time with me here on the podcast. This is where every week I bring you access to global experts in wellness, technology and behavior change. On this podcast, you'll learn from exceptional people who are dedicating their lives to driving real transformations in physical and emotional wellness. My intention with the show is that together we'll discover the connections between your emotions and healthy habits to live your best life and enjoy the process. This show is brought to you by our sponsor, PerfectSupplements.com, a company that I am so excited as part of the Wellness Force community because they actually sell real food supplements that are non gmo, pesticide free and organic, which couldn't be more important. Now with all the pesticides, fungicides and herbicides out there, and there's really no standards on supplementation.

There's.

This is a company that I trust. I take them personally, and you can trust them as well. Hop on over to PerfectSupplements.com WellnessForce. Enter your special code for the audience discount WellnessForce to save 10% off your order at checkout. This is gonna be such a fun show. I am so stoked you're here. Lisa Perkins is a close friend of mine. She actually coached me this year. We're gonna talk about the results that I got from Lisa's coaching in combination with emotional intelligence and biomarkers. But before we do, I wanna read you the itunes review that I got this week from Lindsay R. This is a five star review. Lindsay said. I had the pleasure of meeting Josh recently at an event. Within just a few minutes of our conversation I knew he was the real deal. Listening to some of his podcasts just reinforced that he is a positive force and I'm so thrilled to have him as a leader in the industry bringing up people worldwide. Just after an hour with Josh, I felt such a strong, energetic shift inspiring me to be better and do better. I would highly recommend listening to and following Josh. I I'm so thankful he continues to share his gifts with the world and we all get to be uplifted and supported by him.

Woo.

Lindsay, you should see me right now. I am giving you a massive digital hug. Thank you so much for your voice support the show. I'll read your review live on the air and give you a digital high five and hug@wellnessforce.com review these reviews are so helpful. They are literally bars of gold in the digital itunes world. That allows people to find that message that they've been searching for and that resonates with you. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with somebody you care about. You never know when the right message at the right time can truly make someone's day. All right, let's jump into Lisa's bio. Lisa is a librarian turned ACSM personal trainer and precision nutrition coach. After years of living with chronic illness, she figured out the secret sauce for living a fit, vibrant and healthy life. Today, she spends her time gently coaching women and the occasional man along their own transformation journeys. And on today's show we are talking about how Lisa helps her clients transform their health habits without being overwhelmed or obsessive. This show is right on time. Over the past 12 plus years, I have seen probably hundreds of diets out there. You know the diet books on Amazon are the ones that always have the most reviews. Well look, here's the thing my friend. Any diet that comes out that says that their way is the only way, that's when you have to throw a flag of caution. Because as Lisa is going to unpack for us, there is no one size fits all diet. You're gonna love her passion. You're gonna love her energy. This is the show for you. If you've been searching for a coach, if you've been looking for some guidance, if you' starting the path or maybe you've fallen off the path, Lisa's gonna go deep with us today. We'll learn about the power of connection in the coaching relationship, how you can pick the right coach for you that your approach predicts your progress. We'll uncover the facts around becoming the expert on you versus following all those gurus that are out there online. And lastly, Lisa's gonna rock your world with her phrase, there is no wagon which flies in the face of the current diet paradigm. No further waiting. Let's get into this awesome and inspiring conversation with my good friend Lisa Perkins. Lisa, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much.

This is incredible. You and I have spent so many calls this year, and I'm gonna let everyone know Lisa is actually my coach. You have been coaching me pretty much for about six months plus here, we're gonna talk about all the things that I've learned and why my body and everyone listening is not one size fits all. Lisa, tell us just a little bit about how you got into this. Like, you've had a cool past. You were a librarian. You lived in Alaska. You lived off the grid. You're a mom. You're a nutrit. You got a lot on the plate, girl. So tell us a little bit about you and your story into becoming this provider for service for men and women in nutrition.

Well, this certainly wasn't the path that I started out on. Worked in politics for many years in Alaska. Love that. Still feel very passionate about the democratic process. And once we moved out into the bush in Alaska, I was raising my daughters, and that's when my health kind of came to a head. I started to really notice that things were going south a little bit. So I started doing some research there. But it wasn't until about 2007 that I started digging a little deeper. I wasn't getting any answers from doctors. You know, I've been living with digestive issues, brain fog, joint pain for many, many years, and knew that there had to be a better way. And gluten, that was the first thing that I identified. Cut that out on my own and saw tremendous changes. But it really wasn't until I discovered paleo In, I believe, 2011, that was really my ticket out. You know, I definitely don't believe that people need to stay in a dietary dogma like that, but for me, that was a huge jumping off point. Just getting that real food, getting my nutrition dialed in, was huge.

Yeah. And I think it gives you such a great context with your clients, because as you and I both have talked about so many times, it's really challenging for people that haven't had any issues of health or weight loss or. Or digestion to help someone that has. You said on your website in 2007, you were fed up and you began to dig into the research because your doctor was out of ideas. Antidepressants, ibuprofen, you were taking them, you said, by the fistful. I think people can relate to this. How many people that are listening right now have had things like this happen? But walk us through, you know, it's 2007, you're at this frustration point. Like, what was that like for you?

Well, it really had come to a head. I was working on my master's degree in library science and I knew how to do the research. So I wasn't getting any answers from the doctors and I thought, this is ridiculous. I can do this myself. So I dove into PubMed and was looking at really quality research and realized, okay, there's definitely a solution here. And again, cutting out gluten was the first step and I saw so many of my symptoms disappear and that gave me the confidence to say, okay, what else am I missing? What else can I dial in here? Again, I tweaked a few things, but it wasn't until a few years later, cutting out things isn't enough. That's what I discovered. It wasn't until I discovered Paleo, that was an adding in process. That's when I discovered I had so many nutritional deficiencies that were also holding me back. And that just absolutely freed me. I got my brain back essentially at that point. And I was working at a university here locally and people were seeing so many changes in me. My body composition was really a side benefit. That was the thing that I noticed the least. But of course that's the outer manifestation that other people.

Right. Everyone wants to know what you're doing, right. They're like, she looks amazing.

So I was telling them, you know, I was eating a lot more fat, limiting refined carbohydrates. I wasn't doing anything extreme at that point in terms of carb restriction. That did come later. But yeah. And so I started informally coaching people at that point and they were getting really good results and that was exciting for me. That really piqued my interest. Although I had no prior experience, you know, in the health field.

Yeah, so you started coaching others based on the success you had found in yourself. And then the emotional piece which you and I have gone so deep on. I want to thank you here on the interview for all the help you've given me because I've always had this quantified self brain. You and I do a lot of research and so we know a lot of people in this space, we do a lot of digging. We figure out what is our body, what are our biomarkers, what are our values. But as I'm gonna share on today's show, and what I really love and support that you do is that you deal with both sides of the coin. You deal with the quantified self piece, the biomarkers, the tests, the nutrition, the nutrients. But also the most important thing that we hit on so much for Wellness Force, and that is the emotional intelligence piece. So it's 2007, you go through all these trials and tribulations, you find Paleo. In 2012, you start coaching people. What did you find? I mean, what are a couple of things that come up right away with people in the beginning?

Yeah, it's ironic that, you know, you talk about, you know, the emotional piece, which is what I focus on so much in my coaching now. People who know me and have known me for years would find that hilarious that I am dipping my toe into that realm because, you know, prior to this kind of juncture, these last few years of my life, I've been literally the most unself aware person that you would probably ever meet and really, you know, poo pooed that all of that were you.

Do you feel like you were anti woo woo at that point?

100%. 100%. I just, you know, I really believed in focusing on the science, the biomarkers, that the rest of it was just tangential. And if it, if you think it helps, well, you know, good for you. But, you know, I'm not going to take that on. And it really wasn't until, you know, I got further into it and really discovered that it is. There is so much below the surface that holds us back. And so, yeah, it was a journey. And really getting into coaching is what taught me that my clients have taught me more than I have learned in all of my research combined. That has been my just most amazing education. And I thank you. I thank all of my clients so much for what you have taught me and helped me uncover about myself and helping me to kind of take that to the next level.

And I received that completely because we are mirrors for each other. And I want to get a little bit selfish here and talk about me because you helped me so much. One of the things we're going to post today@wellnessforce.com Lisa is going to be the test results for my Wellness fx. Now, the things that came up for me in our coaching relationship, my personal issues, producing this podcast, being an entrepreneur, having like 1011 12pm nights was that my testosterone went south. I mean, it went really south. We're talking like, I was very to the point where I wasn't even having any sex drive. I was having trouble sleeping. I was having trouble being motivated. And I think all of us can relate to this. I mean, who doesn't have stress? But here's the results. I was at 4:43 in April, and right around the time of my birthday, I was working with Lisa. We dove deep not only into nutrient tracking, but the quality of the food that I was eating, the time that I was eating it. We used a lot of the devices that we've talked about on the show. But what was really cool is by July I got up to 600. So my free, like, total testosterone was at 600. So what do you think, Lisa? I mean, working with me, working with anyone like me, like entrepreneurs, busy people, the results that I got from working with you, where we quantified it, but we also worked with the emotions. I'm totally down to share. Right. If you want to ask me questions right now and like, be my coach on the air, that's totally cool. But share with people. I mean, what do you find when you do the two sides of the coin, the quantitative and also the emotional?

Well, I do find that for many people, they need to see in black and white, first of all, that there's an issue. And then tracking that issue over time and noticing the improvements, that's going to lock in those behavior changes because you're getting that solid feedback that's really important for so many people. Yeah, they'll notice the changes in their body and their mood and their energy, but they need to see that there is a direct correlation. I'm that way. I really like to see the data. And in the case of a hormone like that, that's really important. That is very important to track. And we want to track that in concert with other biomarkers. With your thyroid, with your blood sugar, with your cholesterol. The more data, the better. I am always looking at everything. It's not. We don't want to parse out one biomarker by itself. We want to see how everything is working in concert with one another. Because just like in every area of life, we were wanting to see balance. We're wanting to see areas that there may be a problem on the horizon. I'm not just looking at general lab reference ranges. I'm looking at optimal. I don't know about you. I don't want to be normal. I want to Be optimal. And I want that for my clients. So, you know, the more information that I can get for people, the better.

And so what came up for me, like, when you were working with me, I'm totally open right now. I think the more transparency and vulnerability is the best. I mean, I've been as open as possible on this show. So if ever everyone's listening right now or watching, we're doing a video for this too. What did you feel from me? I mean, what did you think were my blocking factors?

You know, some of the things that we talked about on the emotional level. You and I both had some scarcity in our childhood, right? So when we were talking about food timing, when we were talking about lowering your carbohydrates, we were looking at your apoe, your, you know, genetics. And so we're talking about limiting saturated fat. Well, we can't just talk about those things without talking about the underlying emotional components. Because if I'm telling you, okay, cut your carbs or you can't eat at night, and you're telling me that's when I'm having emotional cravings, there's a safety need underneath there. Your body is telling you that doesn't feel safe. And we are always in the process on this journey of trying to get on the same team with our body, trying to constantly kind of parent ourselves and reassure our body it's safe here. I am going to care for you. I'm going to nourish you and feed you. And so if I were just coaching you on your biomarkers, do you think that would have worked?

I definitely don't think so. I'm already a type quantitative enough. Right?

Right, exactly.

So I think you were intuitive enough to know that.

Right. So that's where we've got to really tweak as we go along. And that's where I'm always being mindful. I'm meeting a client where they are. I'm not shouting at them from across the room, hey, this is the protocol. This is what you need to be doing. Clearly, you have a lack of willpower, and that's why you can't adhere to this. That helps zero people, that sends people straight to the shame cave and looking for another one size fits all plan. I didn't want that for you. I don't want that for anyone. I want you to come out of this process not only healthier, not only with improved biomarkers, but feeling like you can go rock your life. That's the goal.

And the power of this is that everyone I don't care if you're Tony Robbins. I don't care if you're Zig Ziglar or Lis or Josh. All of us get to have coaches in our lives. So I impact people. I work with clientele. But guess what? I'm also a human being. I'm also in service to other people that also need service for myself. You know, Lisa, in our show notes today, we're gonna post your four topics and we're gonna go deeper on this coaching piece. But the first one you wrote about was the power of connection in the coaching relationship. You wrote, clients need a coach who will listen intently, reframe negativity, and gently encourage them to set aside the stories and baggage that are keeping them stuck. Now, we already talked about that a little bit, but when you first start working with someone, specifically women, what is that like? I mean, what are the common threads, Lisa, the stories or the major blocking factors that you experience as a coach?

So the first thing that I see when women come to me is they have got what they perceive to be a history of failure. They have yo yo dieted for many years and really have gotten to the point where they don't feel like they can be successful moving forward. They've almost pre failed going into this next plan. And so our job in the very beginning, of course, I need to build trust with them before we can go extremely deep. But we're going to set a goal. But then we're going to connect that goal to a value in their life, something that truly matters. For example, I'm working with a woman right now. She's in her late 60s. She has no desire to have a quote unquote bikini body, whatever that means. She wants to be healthy for her grandchildren. She wants to have good brain function, good mobility going forward. So I am working on tying her goals to those values because when we do that, we don't require external motivation. We are intrinsically motivated because this matters to us. Many women that come to me, they've got this kind of externally driven goal that they feel less than, they feel unworthy, and they feel that they need to shed this extra weight in order to be seen in society. Well, that kind of negative, fear driven goal does not sustain us. We will not stick to that plan. And that's what's led to all of these failures. So what I have to do with them is help them unpack that a little bit in a positive way, not in an overwhelming way. Reframe that and connect that to something positive that's Going to elevate their life.

And I can connect with this. I'm a man, and so I'm one of the men that you work with. And I think in early in my 20s, we can all relate to this, like losing weight from a place of anger and frustration versus letting go of weight from a place of freedom and trust. And I think that is the ultimate paradigm. So much of what the fitness industry focuses on is how to lose weight, how to get a six pack, how to get Beachbody ready. And I'm just exhausted by it. And I'm sure you are, too. And if you're listening or you're watching and you're feeling exhausted, Lysa, paint that picture. How do we transition from the scarcity and the tension to the trust and the allowing?

Well, we have to slow down, first of all. We have to get out of that frenetic mindset that this weight just needs to be gone. That's when we're at war with our body. We're picking apart our body parts. I've been there. I know this feeling so well that we're looking down, we're grabbing these hunks of flesh and saying, I need this gone. That is not going to get us where we want to go. We've got to slow down and breathe and understand we are enough right now. The things that you think you will get from losing this weight, you can have right now, and you need to start having them right now. You need to figure out, what do I truly want? How do I want to show up in this world? What really matters to me, and that typically, is connection. And I think we believe that we are going to have deeper connection if we look better. Just sounds ridiculous.

No, it sounds fantastic. What came up for me when you were sharing the power of your share is that there's pieces of your background that have allowed you to grow into this. You said before, if my friends would have known that I'd be talking about the emotion and the fitness, they'd probably laugh. Where did you find in your past a gem that you really saw? A turning point for you to not only embrace emotional intelligence, but to empower your clients with it.

I have read so much along this journey. Honestly, it's. You know, they say you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. Well, I feel like I spend a lot of time with Tony Robbins. You know, people like this that inspire me. Sean Croxton, you know, these mentors and leaders have really helped me unpack my own stories and become More gentle with myself. I will tell you, I have been my harshest critic. I have a boardroom of critics in my head and I'm still working on evicting those guys. They have, they don't serve me. They don't serve any higher value in my life. So it's really been this journey over the past five years of really following these people. This has allowed me to have grace with myself, which allows me to be more vulnerable with other people. I honestly did not have deep connections with friends for most of my life because I didn't let them see me. I thought if they truly saw me, they would think I was weird, that I wasn't enough. And so I was blocking genuine connection. And over the past few years, I have seen that becoming more vulnerable myself allows other people the space to do the same. It elevates all of us. So it's really. I don't expect this journey to ever be done in my life.

Yeah.

But I'm open to it and I've seen the power of it and I just want more.

Wow. And what hits me is that you said there's really no finish line. We had Gretchen Rubin on the show. She talked about that. No matter what your tendency type is or like you said, kicking out the committee, how do we process that committee, There is no finish line for this work. So do you feel like that's a part of the acceptance piece because you talked about in this blog post that we're going to have@wellnessforce.com Lisa, your approach predicts your progress, acceptance, curiosity and patience compared to self loathing, shame and over efforting. How do you plug that content into the mind of your clients to where they accept that there's no finish line and they enjoy the process?

The first thing, honestly, is getting them to slow down and understand. You know, I ask leading questions. Do you want results that are immediate, that are unlikely to be sustainable, or do you want long term results that you get to keep? Well, you know, asking it that way, of course people are going to say, yes, I want long term results that I get to keep. But that's not the approach of the diet industry. Everything out there is 30 day this, 21 day that, six week this. Those can be great catalysts to get started. But those are not long term approaches because those are not allowing us to customize and figure out what do I really need, what makes me feel healthy, satiated, happy, safe, not crazy. We equate health with pain and deprivation. That doesn't make sense. Healthy eating should be this bountiful plentiful process. And that's what I'm showing people. I tell all of my clients, if you're hungry one time, like genuinely hungry, I'm doing something wrong, and we need to hack that. So we are always going to be tweaking your plan to make sure not only are you physically full, but you're satisfied. And this should not feel like this onerous process. If it does, you're not going to stick to it. So that's the journey. And I guess I really work hard in the very beginning to establish trust with people, to explain to them what's worked for me and what's worked for my other clients. And surprisingly, being the introvert that I am, I feel like I really am able to connect with people and let them know that I truly do care. I want them to feel good about this.

I absolutely can attest to that because we worked together for the majority of 2016, and I think everyone gets to explore this piece. When you talked about the curiosity and the patience versus the shame cave, we even talked about this offline. Right? Like the shame cave. So with clients and with me, I'll just share right now a lot of the pieces that came up for me when I was processing. Hey, when I'm changing my food habits, it sparks all the thoughts in myself that I don't want to deal with. And I'm sure you've had this come up with people. And I know if you're listening and you're having, like, changes in your diet or changes in your lifestyle, that's when we kind of face our shit. Let's be real, our shit comes up when we start changing all our habits. So how do you reframe this so that it's not such a draw of energy? How do you reframe that habit piece?

It's huge. That's where I want you to get curious. I want you to get out of that judger role and stand back, have just a little space to say, huh, Wonder what that is. That's interesting. I'm feeling angry right now at the fact that I. I have this meal planned. Yeah. And my inner rebel wants pizza or whatever. What is that? That's interesting. And when we do that, maybe we can parse out that I'm not getting my needs met. I'm hungry for something. What am I hungry for? Is it even food? Is this food related? Am I lonely? Am I feeling disconnected? Am I feeling a lack of contribution in my life? You know, what is missing? And that's where we can kind of be that science nerd a little bit. But it's only when we step back out and try to get that a little bit of a perspective on our life, when we're mired down in the swamp of judgment, nothing's going to get figured out. Nothing. It just gets worse. And again, you're going to go to the shame cave and you're going to wallow in it and things are going to fester. When we pull things out into the light, we talk about them with people that we trust, say them out loud. You know, I think I've mentioned this to you before offline, but I will never forget one of the first clients that said to me in a very hushed tone, I don't know how to tell you this, but I am an emotional eater. And it was all I could do not to laugh because, I mean, I just, I wanted to give her a huge hug. I said, listen, welcome to the human race. We are all emotional eaters, but we're not talking about this with one another. We are all struggling with so many of the same things. Feeling a lack, feeling less than, feeling this imposter syndrome. But we're all kind of hiding and building these facades so that everyone else thinks that we all have our stuff together.

Yes. And the piece that doesn't fit, you can't fit the round approach, which is move more, eat less, that a lot of the diet frameworks work on in the fitness industry. Because again, one size does not fit all. I mean, there's no way that that person with her unique needs, her past. Look, we all have baggage. Like, everyone has a story that takes human conn to unpack. We had Ryan Yacomi on the show and we talked about money, beliefs. And in there, we quoted the very first wellness practitioner ever that ever coined wellness. And he said the currency of wellness is human connection. And so this is exactly what you're talking about. Lisa, you know, one of your other points was once we actually do have that real connection with another human, that's where we dig deeper, though. I mean, that's where we can get once that emotional base and once that trust base has been poured, then we can start being, you know, the expert or the guru. You wrote one size fits no one. For sustainable results. We have to invest the time to figure out what works best for us using whatever information we have available could be food intolerances, cooking style, schedule. Unpack that a little bit so that people know once they've poured that trust and emotion base, how do they dig deeper in that space?

Yeah. So when you're trying to figure out what works for you and you've got a modicum of trust, you're coming at this, You've established a positive goal. Once you have that in place, that's when you start, okay, doing the nuts and bolts of figuring out the healthy lifestyle that works for you as a unique person. So I would say the place to start is eat real food most of the time. Again, Paleo was my ticket out because it's a simple approach. We are getting our nutrition needs met in a way that the standard American diet just cannot do for us. So it's very hard to overeat, unlike processed food, it's just a really good baseline. And again, that's not telling you. That's macronutrient, agnostic. That's not telling you how many carbs, proteins, and fats. That's just saying, in the beginning, let's focus on real food. Start there.

I think the ultimate challenge is at the end of a day, you're tired, you're stressed out, and plugging in 20 minutes of aerobic exercise can sometimes be such a mental hurdle that it can be challenging to overcome. Well, I think the best way we can circumvent this is by being proactive about our health and tapping into the power of Adaptogens. So this week, while you're eating your whole foods nutrition, if you're finding that the energy is lacking for you or the motivation is lacking for you to get that 20 minutes of aerobic work in, start using Adaptogens. This is a product from Perfect supplements called Rhodiola Rosea. Now, this helps our body adapt to adverse influences of anxiety, exhaustion, or stress. It's also included in the ultimate Wellness Bundle. This is a bundle that was specifically designed for the Wellness Force Radio audience. I dug through a bunch of pieces of research, and I figured out my top three supplements. Put them into a Wellness Bundle that's heavily discounted just for Wellness Force Radio. So discover more about the Wellness Bundle and rhodiola rosea@perfectsupplements.com WellnessForce. Pick up some amazing health and save some money in the process.

The next thing is becoming aware of your body's signals. Knowing. Becoming a little more aware, am I physically hungry? We tend to be in kind of continuous meal in America. We view that slightest pang of hunger as an emergency. And again, we need to calm down. You know, before we started this interview, we did box breathing together. That's an important tool for me and for my clients is just to breathe a Little bit and say, okay, am I hungry right now or do I need something else? Do I need some movement? Do I need to call a friend? Do I need to just accomplish that task that I'm procrastinating? What do I really need? So developing that little bit of self awareness. I love the quote, if hunger isn't the problem, food isn't the solution.

I love that as well.

This is a big one. This next one is being prepared with healthy food. I would say that 90% of the issues that my clients face is when they are not prepared. They don't have some healthy meals prepared, prepared, or they haven't brought things with them. You know, I carry a ratty cooler wherever I go. People kind of tease me. But to me, that addresses my safety needs. Sure, I have water in there, I have some healthy bars. I've got cans of sardines. I've got fruit in there. I don't eat all of it, but I know that I have things when I'm on the go. So being prepared is huge in the beginning. I think it's crucial to track your food. That's not something we want to do forever, and you don't need to do it forever, but you need to get a baseline for where you're at in terms of your calories, your macronutrients and your micronutrients, making sure that you're getting good food in. The last two things are kind of philosophical, but they're still very tangible. The first one is, again, we're customizing your plan. So eyes on your own plate, eyes on your own plan, eyes on your own body, and eyes on your own goal. When we start looking around at what everyone else is doing, oh, well, maybe keto or maybe low carb, or maybe it's this plan or a juice. Fast stop, come back, trust that your body's going to tell you what it needs and it will tell you, but you need to give it some time and pay attention.

Yeah, the pay attention piece is hard, though. The pay attention piece is the one where that's not popular because a lot of people want this. Lisa, haven't you found that a lot of people that have come to me or even write me emails and I'm sure you work with if they have the guide and if they have the plan, as long as they follow the guide to perfection, everything will work out? But it couldn't be more false because the very reason that they want to depend on a guide or a plan. And Dr. J. Teeter talked about this, right? Everyone's looking for the plan because then they can trust the plan. But the fact that they're so stringent about the plan and they wouldn't do it if the plan wasn't there doesn't give them very much emotional freedom to feel what really works.

One of the things that I've learned is rules minus relationship equals rebellion. So what does that mean when we impose rules upon ourselves, either from an external plan or just rules that we're putting on ourselves if we don't have a solid relationship with ourself, that trust that we're going to nourish ourselves, that we know that we're going to follow through on what we said that we would do, if that's kind of a sketchy relationship there that's going to end in rebellion almost every time. So you've got to reestablish that relationship in order for those rules to adhere. I mean, you know, you've done it, I've done it.

I'm laughing.

Yeah, I am a rebel for sure. And I'm always trying to kind of circumvent that inner toddler that's saying, well, don't be telling me I can't have that cookie, then I have to be aware. Nobody's imposing this upon me. This is a goal. I want a bigger life than this. A cookie is not meeting my needs. That's blunting the process. So the last thing that I wanted to say in terms of figuring out your own plan, and most people don't believe me in the beginning, but easy is earned. And yes, you do have to pay attention to some of these things. Just like when you're learning any new skills, when you're learning to drive. My foot's on the brake. My foot's on the pedal. Okay, where does 10 o' clock and 2 o'? Clock? You know, you are, you know, looking down at the, you know, am I following the speed limit? You know, you're, you're. That becomes intuitive over time. Yeah, same with food. I would never have believed that at this point in my life that this would be in its own lane. In its life, food took center stage. It's not that I was doing it right, but it subsumed so much of my brain power for so many years of my life. It's really sad. I think of all of the things that I could have been doing when I was busy writing all these plans and how many calories is this? And what could I possibly have later? And even while I was eating a meal, I was thinking, okay, when do I get to eat next and what will that be? And if I eat then, then will I get to eat later and will I get to have popcorn at the movie? And then, my goodness, this is your ticket out of that.

And so I'm feeling you when you say that so much because in my early 20s, before I was a trainer, I went through 100 plus pound weight loss. I did Atkins, I ate like 1500 calories a day. And then I gained all the way back plus interest. Right. And so when I moved to Hawaii and I got my training certification, I just wanted to feel like everything was gonna be okay. And I know that's a sentence that rings true for me. Have there been points in your life where you've overcome like, oh my gosh, how do I make everything okay? How do do this? How did you do that yourself? And maybe share someone you've worked with that you're really proud of, that you felt like there was an incredible amount of growth there?

Yeah. So again, this really has been an incremental process both in terms of figuring out the food piece and what works for me intuitively and becoming developing that self awareness along the way. I don't think that in all honesty, I could pinpoint a moment where I had this Aha, the clouds parted.

Sure, there was a harp in the background.

Over time, I really noticed I don't have to track my weight, does not fluctuate. I trust my hunger now. I don't feel like I have to go to my fitness pal for permission when my body feels hungry. I do eat real food most of the time. And like I say, that is very difficult to overeat. I'm eating protein and vegetables and healthy fats and nuts. You're probably not going to binge on those. And I'm not saying that I don't ever have a few things here and there other than that, but it's just that's my go to, that's my default. And so it's easy for me. I have a number of clients that I'm very proud of, one of whom I've been working with for a little over a year. And she told me I could use her name. She's very proud of her progress. Her name is Charity. And she came to me, probably one of the biggest rebels that I've ever met. She, her stated goal was to lose a certain number of pounds, but she did almost everything in her power to subvert that goal. Just constantly self sabotaging and going off plan and making justification one after the other. Having these Debates with herself constantly. And it's really been this process of unpacking, getting her around on the same side of the table with herself. This is my goal. I'm going to slow down and breathe and figure out how to make this work for me in a manner that makes my life feel rich and joyful. I'm not saying no to social events. I'm not saying no to travel. I am hacking this along the way. And she has lost a ton of weight. She has built a substantial amount of muscle in the gym. Even more than that, she glows. People say it to her all the time. You are a different person. And she is looking around in other areas of her life and taking on challenges that she never felt capable of before. And that is so inspiring to me. Again, she inspires me just as much as I hope to be an inspiration for her. So it's a beautiful process. And I have a number of clients that, you know, are on that similar journey.

And I love that you said this beautiful piece. I think that's a tweetable. We could actually put that on Twitter right now. Getting on the same side of the table as herself. So powerful. This last point that you made, which I was confused about, and I want you to shed some light on it. There is no wagon. You write, optimizing health and body composition over the long term requires a healthy relationship with food and self. The inconsistency sets up for cycles of binge, restrict, flail recommitting. But this undermines credibility with ourselves, which is the most important relationship. The reality check is we're the captains of our own ship. Like it or not. The sooner we take the wheel, the fitter, healthier and happier we'll be. Why is there no wagon?

I don't make the rules. There just is no wagon. That is a pure invention out of thin air that the diet industry has handed us on a silver platter because it, you know, it's billions of dollars worth of plans. The wagon mentality is an excuse, really. I mean it basically, again, the image of being on the other side of the table with yourself and coming around when, when we view, okay, we're on the plan or off the plan, that is essentially saying, I don't trust myself. I can either follow somebody else's plan or I am completely off the rails. And again, that undermines trust with ourselves. And when I was saying before that rules minus relationship equals rebellion. And if you want to have that continuous cycle of yo yo dieting, the shame cycle for the rest of your life, then Keep viewing it as a wagon, but there really is no wagon and there doesn't need to be. And that is such a beautiful concept to realize that yes, we can plan indulgences. We can have our cake and eat it too. We can have beautiful food that we love, that loves us back all the time, seven days a week, 365 days a year. We do not need this stringent, restrictive punishment approach. It's not sustainable. It makes us feel bad about ourself, it undermines our relationship with ourself, and it most assuredly does not elevate our health.

We've talked a lot about stages that people go through. You know, the fighting of oneself, getting on the same side of the table, accepting there's no finish line. And we've gone deep in a lot of topics. But what about the secret sauce? I mean, do you feel like there's something you can coat everything with that makes it stick together, that makes people stick to their program? What do you feel about that secret sauce?

I think that it's very important as soon as possible for people to start thinking about, okay, what really lights me up in this world. Because if you think about it, okay, the things that you're excited about, whether it's surfing, whether it's being a researcher in a lab, whatever it is that floats your boat. Do you need motivation to do that?

Nope.

No. You want to do that all the time. That's what we want to look for. I know for myself in the early years, before I had any self awareness about weight loss, I realized that the times in my life when I successfully did lose weight and wasn't using food as a crutch or entertainment or solace, was when I was lit up about something else in my life. That's what I was hungry for. That's what I think so much of us are missing. It's not just connection that we're missing, but it's truly finding things in life that we're passionate about. We sort of get robotic and life becomes drudgery and we forget we have such a short time on this planet and we need to find the joy every day. We need to get the goodies. Because you know what? We're going to get the goodies regardless. And if we're not getting them in a healthy way, then it's going to be a bag of Oreos on the car seat, on the drive home. Our brains want dopamine, they want serotonin, we want the feel good brain chemistry and we're going to get it one way or the other. So let's do that in a healthy way. Let's figure out what are the things I used to love to do. Personally, I love climbing anything. I love climbing trees. I make a concerted effort to get out to parks. I play on the jungle gym. I don't care. I don't care. Silly. Yeah, I'm almost 50, so maybe I care a little less than. That's what we need to do. It doesn't have to be. Well, the thing that lights me up is taking a vacation to the Caribbean. We can't do that all the time. We need to find smaller ways to really get some fun and excitement back in our life. And the neat thing is that that helps us connect better with others. When other people see us energetic, we're going to elevate everyone else. It's not a selfish thing to do. And food is going to dissipate in importance. We're using food to mask so many of these desires. We need to baby step away from that.

And at the base of it all, what's coming up for me, by the way, I love the visual of you, like climbing the trees in the park and having kids around you. It's such a fun visual. But what's coming up for me is this connection, purpose, and then trust. This is the triad, right? The secret sauce of. At least what I'm hearing from you is get really clear on your purpose. We're gonna link in the show notes the episode with Drew Canole, because he talked about a why that makes you cry. And I think that's really what you're hitting on. The secret sauce is, yes, you need the emotional piece. Yes, you need the quantitative piece and the connection piece. But with all of that, it's also really important to have something that you're striving for, something that gets you out of bed, not that you have to drag your feet out of the bed. Lisa, this is the last part of the show. This is the most fun questions I think I'm ever gonna ask you. It's seven for seven. It's seven questions for seven. Authentic answers. Are you ready?

Yes.

The first question is, what makes you crack up laughing? Like, what makes you laugh?

The most really silly movies like Dumb and Dumber. I know that's horrible. As a librarian and intellectual, that kind of silly slapstick humor really gets me.

I don't know anyone that doesn't quote Dumb and Dumber on the regular anyways. I mean, that's okay.

That's my. You know, I grew up with brothers on an island in Alaska. I think that 11 year old boy humor stuck with me.

If you're going to go on a really tough workout or a hike or something, what do you put in your backpack? What does Lisa put in her backpack?

I take the Primal Kitchen Collagen protein bars. Those are really satiating for me. Really high quality water. I love the Spring Valley water, so. Or something like that. That's got good minerals in it and some good carbs like plantain chips or Jackson's Honest chips. If I'm out, I'm going to want a dense source of carbohydrates and I like the crunch.

How do you feel like gratitude has played the biggest role in your life? And what's your favorite way? How do you practice gratitude when you're busy?

Gratitude has been a game changer for me because when I'm in gratitude, I cannot be in a negative brain state. So every single morning I am thinking of the three things that I'm deeply grateful for. And not only just not just the tangible things. Like I'm grateful for a roof over my head. I'm grateful for how that makes me feel, that that makes me feel safe, that so many people in the world don't have that safety. So I really try to connect that to a deep emotion within me and it's really changed my outlook. It really has. I think I told you that we're dealing with the house issue with some mold. And I'm so grateful that I've got a family member that I can stay with right now. I'm not viewing that in a negative way. I would have never been this way in the past. And so yeah, that's, that's helped a lot.

You already brought up Dumb and Dumber, but if you were to go to Back to the Future movie, you could take the DeLorean way back. Let's say that you were sitting at a table and you're in a park and you get to talk to your 18 year old self for like 5 minutes. How would you open that conversation with your 18 year old self and also like, would she even listen? Like, would your 18 year old self listen to what you had to say? Now your wisdom.

I don't know that I would have listened and I'm not sure that it would be helpful to go back and change my trajectory. But the one thing that I think could have made a huge difference is for me to have more grace with myself. I think that I have been in this frenetic, efforting state my whole life of trying to feel like enough to be a perfectionist, to try to always achieve more, strive more, work more, be more. And it's been exhausting. So I guess I would have tried to. I would have given that girl a huge hug and say, you're enough right now.

I actually pictured that. That was an amazing visual. Thank you for that. I'm curious what comes up for you when I ask you this? If you were to take all the things that are happening in America right now around nutrition and the fitness industry, there's probably 25 things you'd want to change. But if there was just one or two things that if you had the power to change in the wellness industry, what would you change?

I guess I would say I would shift the focus to figuring out what works for you as a person. I mean, just more and more plans and programs and 30 day boot camps pop up every single day. And if I could change anything, it would be to provide a template for people to figure out how this works for you. And that's something that I'm working on that I'm going to have, you know, available on my website, is I want people to be able to work through this process on their own. Again, it's not very sexy and I understand that. But I'll tell you, these are. This is a plan that's going to get you tangible results that you get to keep forever.

Yeah, you're right on that. It's not the sexy part, like exploring the emotions. Right. And doing the real work. Last question. I ask everyone this, and from working with you, I'm really curious what you're gonna say. So what is wellness to you? Like, if you had to define your relationship, your definition of wellness, what is that for you?

It is taking a big picture approach to my life and making sure that all of my buckets are filled. It's. It used to be just physical health. It is no longer. Wellness to me is making sure that my contribution bucket is full, that my connection bucket is full, and that I'm making time to do self care for myself with no guilt. That to me, that trifecta represents wellness and doing that in a peaceful way. It's like a big hug. It is. It feels like parenting myself and I want that for everyone.

And I'm laughing because I feel like you have been such an amazing light for people that are listening. Not only just moms and dads and regular humans, but especially I think you have a deep connection with people that care for others. You and I are both empathic people, and I'm curious what comes up for you when I ask you, what are you most excited about? I know this is kind of like a bonus question, but for 2017, you have some unique projects you're working on. I see that you're doing some seminars and some different things. But before we give people where they can contact you, I mean, tell us what you're most excited about.

I am definitely excited to get my message out there in a bigger way. My business has grown by word of mouth. I've done very little advertising. I haven't been strategic. That really being salesy is not something that I'm comfortable with. But I know that I need to get my message out there so that I can serve people better. I do want people to feel like there's someone out there that sees them and that is willing to take the time to hear their story. That's the coach that I was always looking for and to be honest, didn't find. And that's the coach that I try to be. And I want people to know that that does exist out there. And so I'm going to be working hard to get my message out there in a bigger and happier way.

Your website is Primal transformations dot com. Is there a specific page or how can people most get a hold of you if they felt inspired by some of the help you've given me?

Right. So the coaching page, there is a link on there to set up a free consultation and it says it's 20 minutes, but it rarely is, just to be honest, quite a bit longer. We'll laugh about that, but it takes a little bit to get to know somebody. But that's probably the best way to contact me. And I'm on Facebook at Primal Transformations and I'm pretty active there.

We went very deep today and I loved our topic. You know, we were thinking about how do we most want to be of service to people that are listening in the Wellness Force community? And what came up was that you are not one size fits all. So do you have any parting guidance for people that are feeling inspired, want to take action? Any parting words for them where they can understand that, hey, no template is going to work if you just plug it in with force. You are not one size fits all.

Absolutely. I would say stop researching. You don't need any more information. We overcomplicate this stuff and we do that because we don't want to take action. What you need right now is make your next eating opportunity focused on whole foods. And then the next time it comes time to eat again, do the same thing. What represents an improvement for you? Don't feel like you have to go all in, throw out all the food in your house. We don't need to overcomplicate this. But start right now. You don't need one more iota of information. Just start and get some feedback. Take some more action. Get some more feedback. That's where the magic happens, isn't it? Taking action.

Lisa, I don't have anything to say besides thank you for all the help you've given me and inspiring people on the podcast today and on video. Make sure to check out this video. It's going to be on YouTube. Also wellnessforce.com Lisa. You can learn more about Lisa there. Download some of the information about her. Get to know Lisa like I've gotten to know Lisa. Lisa, so much gratitude. I want to honor you for this moment and say thank you for the journey you've been through, how you're helping people now and what you've done for me. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you so much.

All right, that is a wrap for episode 85 with Lisa Perkins. How much did you love her? Genuine takeaways from today's show are pretty clean but not so simple to execute. Reach out to Lisa@primaltransformations.com services. Also, if you enjoyed today's episode, we're going to have a lot of links for you to download and free resources at the show notes page. Wellnessforce.com Lisa First Takeaway is the power of connection. When you're looking for a coach or if you're a coach who's listening to this program and you're in the industry, people that listen and reframe negativity while gently encouraging others to set aside stories and baggage is the kind of person you want to be with. So make sure that that person has empathy and that you feel a deep connection. Secondly is your approach predicts your progress. Acceptance and curiosity is much greater than loathing, shame and over efforting. Learning that curiosity curve and the acceptance curve is so much more powerful than doing things from a place where of scarcity and anger. Third takeaway is becoming the expert versus following the guru Lisa talked about in the show today. You do not need to do any more research because the reality is that whatever you find may not fit you for sustainable results. You need to invest the time with another human in connection to see what works best for you. My original mentor from 2000, name Rob Wolf, said we gotta put the sweater on to see if it itches. Do you know what I mean? And sometimes Sometimes it's nice to have somebody to help you shop. Fourth takeaway is there is no wagon. This is all made up by the diet industry. Lisa knows from her clients and coaching people for the past 10 years that optimizing health and body composition honestly just requires that healthy relationship with food. The secret sauce is start living now. If you're honest, your goal isn't really those abs. It's not to be sexy when you're naked. I mean, that's fun. But if you really a life where we get to show up powerfully and live each day to feel amazing and enjoy the process, which is why you're here listening to this show. So now all that's left to do is go out there and create an amazing day with all the inspiration and education from Lisa and every guest we've had on the show. So until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.

Sam.