Mindset Expert: Your Beliefs Shape Your Entire Reality!

Why do people know what to do and don't do it? We all know we should exercise and eat well and we'll live longer, and we don't. So patterns are what we want to change. Beliefs underlie the patterns. So when you get rid of beliefs, you get rid of the patterns. Here's why beliefs don't go away with most things people do.

Shelly Lefkoe is an international keynote speaker who has Transformed more than 150,000 lives by teaching how to eliminate negative beliefs for good. You say in your work that all meaning is really an interpretation of an event.

Yes.

But an event at its core is.

Neutral meanings in your mind, it's never in the events. The meaning that you give events comes from your beliefs. Beliefs get formed in the past. Meaning gets formed in the moment.

What is that very, very first step of unhooking from the belief?

Okay.

You say in your work that all meaning is really an interpretation of an event.

Yes.

But an event at its core is neutral. That's a brain buster.

Yeah.

Can you walk us through, on a high level, the fact that events are neutral, but it's really the meaning we place onto the event that causes us.

Painful beliefs, painful feelings. So I'm going to make a couple of distinctions because, you know, 35 years ago, Josh, when we started, I would say my husband. My late husband was on a plane and he was looking at, why do people know what to do and don't do it? We all know we should exercise and eat well and we'll live longer, and we don't. We know going into relationships that they're not right. We stay in jobs that we hate. And we're not stupid. We know why. So he was on what? And you'll love this, given who you are. He was on a spiritual, intellectual journey to discover why people know what to do and don't do it, or know what not to do and don't do it right or do it. And he's on a plane and he downloads this process and he comes home and he says, I want you to see. I came up with the idea that all behavior and emotions are consistent with our beliefs. Now, a belief is a statement about reality that we hold as the truth. Okay? People mix up patterns and beliefs. I hear them say it all the time. A pattern is observable. So I can see. Behavioral. I can see you procrastinate. I can see. I can see you not speak up for yourself. Emotional. I can see you be anxious or depressed. So patterns are what we want to change beliefs underlie the patterns, right? They cause the patterns. So when you get rid of beliefs, you get rid of the patterns. So he comes home and he tells me this, and I would say to people, oh. And I watch him do it. He does it on friend of ours who wanted to be in a relationship and she wasn't meeting the right men. And so he said, well, what do you believe about men? And she goes, well, men are selfish assholes. And she starts spouting all these beliefs. He says, what about marriage? And she said, well, marriage is suffocating. You have to give up your independence. And I was sitting there watching he does the process, which he did when he got off the plane and got hired by the state of California. They were so impressed. But he does the process. And spirit whacked me in the head. And I heard this voice, I swear to God say, this is what you're here to do. This is why you're on this planet. And I've been doing it for 35 years now. When I used to say to people, I'm in the belief business. You know, I help people get rid of beliefs. They'd say, beliefs, like you mean religious beliefs. Now everybody's talking about beliefs, okay? We all know that beliefs, if you believe water is boiling hot, you're not going to put your hand in it, right? So I want to make another distinction. Beliefs versus meaning. Beliefs get formed in the past. Meaning gets formed in the moment. The meaning that you give events generally comes from your beliefs. So if you believe simple dogs are dangerous, and a dog comes into the room, you're going to give it the meaning, that dog's going to bite me. And that causes your fear. So all of your emotions come from the meaning you give events. Okay? Meaning is in your mind, right? If everybody listening thinks for a second, somebody comes into a room and doesn't speak to you, they don't say hello. What do you automatically think?

They don't like me.

Perfect.

My hair isn't good.

Perfect.

Should I have worn a different shirt?

Perfect.

Do my feet stink?

Those are meanings.

Yeah.

So where did all of those meanings come from?

The hard drive.

Your mind.

Yeah, of course.

So if meaning is inside your head, events don't have inherent meaning.

Oh, this is so good. Okay, let me pause you right there.

And I. I never start with this. I always end.

This is great. No, I love that we're starting with this because. Let's just get right to it. I love that you said that. The meaning is in the moment. It's the moment that creates the Meaning So if I or anyone has struggled with a caregiver who was essentially broken in some way or learning how to be more whole.

Yeah.

However you want to put it.

Yeah.

My mom struggled with manic bipolar my entire life. My dad left super early. He had his own demons. But in a beautiful way. Well, actually, I'm not even. You don't even have to say you're sorry. It's more just like, what a beautiful gift that I could be here doing what I'm doing because of the vacuum that was created by me getting undernourished in ways that now I know how to nourish myself through.

Yeah.

And it's not just a mental gymnastics either. And this is the core of the work that I want to get into you with. When people hear that events are neutral.

Yes.

And we place that meaning in the moment, like you say.

Yes.

The ego can rise and there can be a huge checklist of. Well, Shelly doesn't understand. I suffered for 20 decades or I suffered for 20 years. And when I suffered for 20 years, I had my life fall apart. I gained weight. They have this huge list that's connected to their belief.

Yeah.

Of the event that was inherently neutral. The meaning that they made in the moment.

Yes.

How do you start to lovingly approach that conversation with a client, whether they're a executive or a media mogul or just a person.

Yeah.

So that you can both hold their pain and acknowledge their pain and not spiritually bypass their pain, but also teach them that inherently the meaning was in the moment and the event was neutral.

That's not how I approach clients. So we're going to back up a little. I'm going to make another distinction just to close this for a second. Events have consequences. They don't have meaning. I never minimize the consequences of somebody's suffering. So I had a client who was sexually abused by his mother just to beat him, incest him, lock him in a closet, and go to church. He was a psychiatrist. He had never had a successful relationship in his life. Now we had to get rid of the beliefs that he formed. I'm damaged goods. I'm worthless. I'm powerless. Women have all the power. Women are mean. So we work together, getting rid of those beliefs so that meanings don't come. So it's. The meaning thing is a trick that you do in the moment. So I'm sitting here with you, and you say something and. And I get plugged in. Right. And I say to myself, what just happened? Josh said something. What meaning did I give it he's out to get me or he doesn't understand me. What else could it mean? He's trying to make the podcast interesting. But what does it inherently mean? What do I know for sure? Meanings in your mind, it's never in the events. So that's a way to get rid of an emotion in the moment. It's not a way to get rid of the beliefs that are causing you to give that that meaning.

Oh, okay. So if I'm hearing you clearly, a stimulus comes in, a phrase comes in, an event happens, we get some. In our mechanism of awareness, we get something that happens. You could say it's for us or to us. And then we create in that split second a meaning which then creates a belief.

Feeling. No, a feeling.

A feeling.

Let me tell you how beliefs get formed, okay? We come into this world, we don't know if we're good enough or not, important or not. We don't know if life is hard or easy. We don't know if money is scarce and hard to get or flows with abundance. Right. And you come into this little world. Now you have little kids. Perfect. When you come in and they haven't seen you, what do they do when they see you?

Daddy.

Daddy. And they run to you, right?

Oh, yeah.

And what do they want?

A hug, A kiss. Love.

What else do they want?

Presence, Awareness. Affection.

Exactly. So I'm gonna alliterate it because it's alliterated. Affection, attention and acknowledgement. Every child. That's why I ask rather than me say it. Because everybody in every country I have clients in, I used to say Uganda. Now I say Saudi Arabia, which blows my mind. They all have the same beliefs and they all answer that question the same way. Now, what is the one word question your children ask all day long when they were little younger than they are? One word question.

I bet you they do it now. It's typically, why, Daddy?

Why?

Why?

Why? So again, I'm not making that up. We didn't rehearse this. Right. So if you get criticized as a child, you say, why can't I live up to Mommy and Daddy's expectations? Oh, I guess I'm not good enough. Why are Mommy and Daddy struggling about money? Well, I guess money is scarce and hard to get. Why? Why am I failing in school? Well, I guess I'm stupid, right? Why are Mommy and Daddy fighting all the time? Well, I guess relationships don't work.

Yeah.

So that's how the beliefs are formed. I'm going to say something I don't always say, but I'm going to tell you the secret sauce. Okay? Here's why beliefs don't go away with most things people do. Okay? So I'm going to make another. I love my. I'm a distinction girl. So I want you to imagine you have a fist in front of you. And the fist is, I'm not good enough. And somebody tells you to do affirmations, and you stand in front of the mirror going, I'm good enough. I'm good enough. I'm good enough. I'm good enough. You have to get rid of this before you can feel good enough. You can't put something where something already exists, number one. Number two, the only person who stands in front of the mirror going, I'm good enough. I'm good enough. I'm good enough. Is somebody who believes what, that they're not or they wouldn't be. You and I are not in front of the mirror doing that, right?

Yeah.

So it's like reinforcing the belief. Here's why beliefs stay with us. We think we saw our beliefs in the world, and it is impossible to not believe something you think you saw. I worked with five Harvard PhDs who had the belief I'm stupid. Evidence doesn't get rid of beliefs. Because when I said to one of them, you have a PhD from Harvard. This was 30 years ago. We were working at a corporate. We were doing corporate work, and I was working with the staff psychologist, and I said, you have a PhD from Harvard. And he said, oh, I conned my way through Harvard.

That's telling.

Exactly. That's how powerful beliefs are. So I said to him, I went through the process, and when I got to the step, doesn't it feel like you saw I'm stupid? He said, every day of my life.

Yeah.

What he saw was his father. Every time he got something wrong, Josh, his father used to slap him on the back of the head and say, genius. That's what he saw. But anything you could see has a color, shape, and location you cannot see. I'm stupid. I'm not good enough. I'm worthless. And so the secret to doing this work is you have to find out what are the beliefs that underlie the pattern or the problem that I have. And then we eliminate those beliefs. And then let's assume you get rid of the belief I'm not important, and your child ignores you. Instead of getting angry, you'll just say, sweetie, I don't appreciate being ignored. I don't ignore you. Or if I do, call me on it. But you Know that's not okay.

Oh, this is so good. Before we get to the color, the shape and the location, which is honestly a hallmark. I love that you do that because I see that being played out in ifs in neuroscience, in parts work in many different disciplines. I want to go back to something you said that was so good. You had said that when we see something, we essentially believe it. It becomes a belief, but it's through this visual cortex. So my question for you that I and all of us get to have clarity on is if seeing is believing, then how do we unsee perfect Santa Claus?

Eight years. I believe in Santa Claus for eight years and all of a sudden you personally. No, no, no.

Okay.

I'm Jewish. I didn't grow up with Santa Claus. Okay, okay. So one day. But we did. My cousin, when my cousin married her husband, he became Santa Claus. And we had family Christmas at my sister in law's. I just remembered that I never told this story before. That's so funny. My niece. So there were five cousins, and each one, when they discovered that Paul wasn't. That Santa Claus wasn't real, they became an elf. So that was the rite of passage.

Oh.

His daughter, who was the youngest of the cousins, still believed. And every time, every year he came out and Callie would cry hysterically. And one day, one Christmas, she starts to cry. And all of a sudden she goes, daddy. In that moment, everyone she got. There's no Santa Claus. That was my dad. And all those people dressed up, they're not Santa Claus. I made that up. That's how you unsee. Did you ever see I'm worthless? No. You saw your parents ignoring you, yelling at you, putting you up for adoption, whatever it was. Yeah, but I'm worthless was made up.

Oh, we are a meaning making machine. We are a machine. Actually, we have electricity in our body. One of the things that I teach in the life method is about filling your capacitor, which is the same in sacred geometry as it is in electricity. Essentially, if we're stressed, if we're undernourished, if we're not touched as a child, essentially, if we're not filled up right. If our parents don't have the faculty to love us or to give us what is inherently necessary for a child. I know you're very deep in this work. You have a parenting course which we'll talk about.

Yes.

If the child isn't given what the parents didn't know how to give, the child will. If I'm getting you correctly, the child will make a Meaning that I'm unlovable, I'm not worthy, I'm stupid. I get hit in the back of the head. Therefore, I'll build a building and I'll go to Harvard. It's so wild how this work can be so surgical and simplistic. What is it inside of us, in our egoic mind or our psyche that wants to make it harder? And why is it so hard to let go of the story that's attached to the belief?

I don't think we do that. I think so. I'm a one trick pony. My answer to most things is beliefs. Right.

I think it's everything. I'm with you.

Yeah. So if somebody comes to you and says, I have something that will change your life, I always say to people, give me 10 sessions, I'll give you a life. Now, that doesn't mean I can handle depression in 10 sessions or an eating disorder in 10 sessions. But for procrastination or fear of public speaking or. Absolutely. Now, if you believe that things have to be hard, you're not coming to me because you won't believe the person who tells you it can be easy. So I think that people complicate things, you know, because they don't understand that this is possible. I listen to some of the top speakers talk about stuff and I go, oh, my God, that's a lot of work that you have to. You know, I just went to hear Glennon Doyle. You know, there are certain people. I just go, please give me, please give me. You know, it doesn't have to be this hard, Oprah. You know, there are just people who are searching and they haven't found this yet, but if they did, it would blow them out of the water.

When you say this, what do you mean?

This process. My process.

Yeah.

See, I. And it sounds arrogant and I know that, and I don't mean it to be. I just. You asked me when we first met, what lights you up.

Yeah.

I am doing this for 35 years, and I never, ever don't get moved or lit up. When somebody has freedom, when they step into that freedom of. Every week, I swear, every week people call me and they go, I was in a meeting and I spoke up and it was no big deal. You know, I used to have a niche, which I stopped doing because it was so boring. And I'm like you. I like a challenge.

Yeah.

I used to help people get rid of their fear of public speaking. If somebody comes to me, I'll still do it, but it's nothing. I'm Searching for. It's the same 10 beliefs for every single person in every country pretty much, right? Go through the beliefs, you get rid of your fear of public speaking. So I'm working with this guy, and the one belief that really got him stuck was if I make a mistake or fail, I'll be rejected. That's what it was. So when he did something wrong as a kid, his dad would stop speaking to him for days. So when we did the process, we do a whole bunch of steps where we look at other interpretations, other meanings. What else could it mean that your dad did that? Maybe it was true for him, maybe it was true as a kid. Maybe he didn't really reject me, he just stopped speaking to me. So then I say, doesn't it seem like you saw it? And he kept saying, but I did see it. But I saw if I make a mistake or fail, I'll be rejected.

And.

And I said, what color is that? Where was that? And he goes, there's my father. I see your father. Stop talking to me. I see that. But where was. That's what will always happen. And he gets rid of it. And he goes, oh my God, I got it, I got it. And then we finished the process. And I ask, what does it mean that that happened? And the answer is always, it has no meaning. Just cause my father did that doesn't mean anything. So the next day, he's doing a presentation and he makes a mistake. And somebody says, oh no, no, that's wrong. And he says, what do you mean? And he said, what you just said is wrong. And he said, well, what's the right answer? And the guy tells him, he says, everybody, listen up. I just made a mistake. He said what I said was wrong. Harry, can you repeat that? So everybody. And he turns around, he says, thank you for speaking up. I wouldn't have wanted anybody to walk out of here with the wrong information. And he goes on with his talk. So he's walking back to his office, and I had told him that when my daughter had just done the Half Ironman and she crossed the finish line, she had her arm up and she goes, I am the shit. So he's walking back to the office and he says, I am the shit. And his phone is ringing. It's the executive vice president of his company. And he says, I was in the room when you made that mistake. I was so impressed with how you handled it. I'm putting you up for a promotion. He said, shelly, I didn't get rejected. I got promoted.

Wow.

Right?

Yes, that Lights me up in many different ways. It feels like your work takes people. Are you familiar with the Hawkins scale? Dr. Hawkins, 40 year, MD, PhD, psychologist. No, it seems like. I mean, I love the way you have simplicity in your work. So I'm going to bring in a tiny bit of complexity and then maybe you can make it simple.

Yeah, yeah.

He talks about the. The frequency scale or the scale of consciousness. And he says that from all the, you know, tens of thousands of patients he worked with, and even in medical, he saw the same thing. That if somebody was stuck at pride, in other words, they were so attached to their belief and the meaning that that belief held, that it blocked them from ever getting to joy, from ever getting to feeling like they're the shit.

Yeah.

In many ways it seems like you're doing that. You're working with a frequency.

So, you know, I'm very big on. On, like download things.

Yeah.

I just got this vision. I am. The thrill of my entire career was being invited to Vietnam to speak to a couple of hundred Asian parents. So Asian parenting is. I don't know if you ever heard of the book.

I'm familiar. I had a guest, John Wang, and he talked about the tiger parenting.

The tiger parenting. Thank you very much. Tiger Mom.

Intense.

Yes.

Yeah.

So it doesn't have to be tiger mom, but there's a lot of. Lot of emphasis on achievements.

Yeah.

And there is a belief. It's a survival strategy belief, which I'll explain in a minute. What makes me good enough is achieving things. That's workaholism. I'm not good enough. The belief. I'm not good enough. So if you're not watching, I have my fist in front of you. And now I have a survival strategy belief. What makes me good enough is achieving things. So as long as that belief stays underwater, I'm good. But I'm driven. I have to keep achieving and achieving. That's what workaholism is. So I want to work with Asian parents because when I. And we'll talk about this later. My work with parents is about facilitating your children to not have these beliefs that we all have.

Amazing.

So I'm working with, I think in saigon, they're probably 100 people. And I have a translator. And I take them through the process. It's a two day workshop. I take them through the process. And I said, okay, who didn't eliminate a belief? And this woman raises her hand. I will never forget this till the day I die. I'm not good enough. How do you know that? My father Was a professor, and he used to tell me, I will never be as good as his students. Josh, if you could see her face, you could literally see the pain on the face, Right? So again, we get to the place. I take her through the steps. We get to the place. Did you ever see it? I saw it. I saw it. I saw. I'm not good enough. I saw. I'm not. Finally, I was like a crazy person. I was grabbing everything off the tables, going, you see this? Does it have a color, shape, and location? You see this? Yes. Does you see this? Yes. Did you ever see I'm not good enough? And this is through a translator. And she goes. And all of a sudden, like, her face, like, I can't even explain it melted.

Yeah.

She starts. Tears start streaming down her face in front of a hundred people, she's laughing and crying. And she said, I saw my father tell me I would never be as good as his students. And I said, oh. And where was I'm not good enough? And she goes, I made that up. It was stunning. Now, it's only one belief, but it's a big one.

Yeah.

There are lots of beliefs, underlying patterns. So people always say, well, what's the belief that causes this? There is no belief that causes that.

How so? How so? What do you mean so?

There's a whole bunch of beliefs that underlie a pattern. So if you procrastinate. Okay, I'll give you the beliefs. And these are the most common beliefs people have. I'm not good enough. Now, procrastination is. No matter what I do, it'll never be good enough. That's why you procrastinate. But it's also. And not. It is. It can be mistakes and failures are bad. And you could have read, I could have taught a course on how mistakes and failures are not bad. And I still had the belief and had to get rid of it, and it still stopped me. Right? And I'll tell you the belief that changed my life that pretty much everybody has. So procrastination. I'm not good enough. Mistakes and failures are bad. If I make a mistake or fail, I'll be rejected. And here's the best belief in the world. Another survival strategy. What makes me good enough is having other people think well of me. That belief ran my life. I walked away from every conversation going, did Josh like me? When he was looking at me, Was he thinking I was. You know, that constant in your mind. Everybody knows that little voice that talks to you, right?

Yeah, it's a little monkey.

It's a little monkey mind that says, what voice? What is she talking about? That voice. Right? When I got rid of that belief, I became my authentic self completely. No matter where I am, no matter who I'm with, what you see is what you get, right?

Yeah.

It is an and for people who serve. When you get rid of. When you're okay the way you are now. I'm not perfect. I'll take feedback any day. I love feedback. Right. I want to grow. I want to be a way that works for people. But I'm good. So if I'm good, where's my focus on you? My focus isn't on me. It's on you. It's on service a hundred percent. When I talk to you, I'm talking to your listeners. I'm thinking about them. What are they thinking? Are they getting this? Am I making it clear?

Oh, yeah.

That's where I am.

You know what? I'm so good, by the way. You know what I'm feeling and thinking when you're sharing for all of us is how powerful it was for you to say, my value, my worth, my love, myself has no bearing on the validation that I'm supposedly wanting to seek from others. There's a. There's an inherent freedom there. There's a. There's an intense de shackling and a liberation process that happens totally. And for people that are in the process of taking off the cuffs, getting out of the jail cell. Can you share on a high level? I know you have a large process, and there's the work that you teach the. What is the name of your method?

Lefka Method.

The Lefkoe Method.

Yeah.

What is the simplistic lens that people can even understand when it comes to the first step of de shackling a belief? In other words, it doesn't have to be so hard. It doesn't have to be so arduous. What is that very, very first step of unhooking from the belief? Because when we hear you say it, it's like, oh, yeah, we can do that all day. Then when we live in a physical body and we get into a moment where we're seeking validation from an audience or from a wife or a husband, it's a different story.

Okay, I also want to talk about. I just wanna make sure we talk. There's a spiritual part of process that you. Particularly when I listen to your podcasts all the time, I go, when? My God, Josh is going to love this. So I will tell you that also. And I do want to talk About Newsflash.

It's all spiritual.

Yeah. But this is where you have a very powerful, very profound experience of yourself at the end of the process.

Yeah.

So the first thing you want to look at is, what do I want to change? So the only time my process doesn't work pretty much is if somebody doesn't want to change like they said. My wife said she'll divorce me if I don't come.

Yeah.

Nope, Sorry. Not going to work. If you do the process, it'll work, but you have to have something you want to change. Right. So you look at, what is it that you want to change? I want to either change a behavior or I want to change an emotion. Okay. I want it to. Or a reality.

Yeah.

A reality pattern is I do all the right things and nothing ever turns.

Out for me a behavior or an emotion. Like an emotional pattern.

Yeah, behavioral pattern. Emotional pattern or a reality pattern.

Okay, got it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Then you look at and you ask yourself the question. And this is, you know, we obviously teach this. We certify people. So it's not like I can train you, but I will tell you what you asked me simply.

Yeah.

What must someone believe logically, that would not speak up for themselves? You know, I once asked my daughter, would you ever have a fear of public speaking? She said, what? I said, you know, if there were a thousand people in the room, would you feel fear? She said, will they have weapons?

Maybe that would be some rational fear if they're holding bazookas in the room.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, fear. So there's two distinctions that I love. No matter what anybody tells you, I'm telling you this. Underlying fear is always a real or imagined threat to your survival. Underlying anger is powerlessness. If you could do something about something, you wouldn't get angry. We get angry because we feel powerless.

Yeah.

Okay, so we have two things that we do with people. Number one, beliefs. Right. So what must I believe that has me not speak up while speaking up is dangerous? That would make sense. Right. What do I believe that has me not launch my product? Well, what if people don't like it? What if I fail? Well, you must have the belief mistakes and failures are bad. Right. So logically, that's one way to figure out what your beliefs are. Now we have another process, which I almost never talk about in podcasts because it takes longer to talk about it than to do it. But you're such a deep diver. I want to do it.

Let's go deep.

So, you know the Pavlov's dog experiment yes. So if everybody listening, Dr. Pavlov showed hungry dogs food and they salivated, and then he showed them the food and he rang the bell and they salivated, and he did that every day. And then one day he just rang the bell and he didn't show the dogs food and the dogs salivated. It's called conditioning. So a stimulus gets conditioned to produce an emotion. For instance, if you're a child and every time you speak up, you get slapped, you're going to have a fear associated with speaking up. Speaking up didn't cause the fear, the slap did. But because those things were both always present at the same time, you never made that distinction. The moment you make that distinction, your neocortex, and we've done a lot of research by the way, your neocortex gets separated. It separates those two things. It would be as if the dog going, duh, it wasn't the bell. I just associated the bell and the food. So we will also do if. But belief goes away and there's still an emotion. We decondition the emotion, and it's really, really powerful.

So good. You know what I was seeing when you were speaking? I was seeing all the axons and the dendrites in the brain and the action potential between the plastic. And I was seeing when there was that separation of the cortex, like you said, that inherently in a second or in a moment, that the synapses can be separated and attached so there can be a new thought pathway. Almost like if you walk in a garden and there's a huge path that's worn out, you could just literally walk in a new path and just create it in that second. It can be that simple, is what I'm hearing from you. But the work to get there may not be easy, but inherently the mechanism is simple. Yes. No.

Um, when you say the work might not be easy.

Well, the work to get there. To actually have the courage to look at one's beliefs, to take opportunity cost inventory of how they showed up for 20 years with the wrong relationship and the job that they didn't love, there's a large opportunity cost. That takes spiritual courage to look at.

Yeah.

When one is looking at their attachment.

To a belief, for sure. And I honor that. I acknowledge. And I always say, you know, I'm like Steve Jobs. You know, the people who come to me me are the thinkers, the, you know, the misfits, the outside the box, not really misfits, but outside the box thinkers. Because you can sit in therapy and learn how to cope with your Problems, Yes.

Yes.

Or get rid of the beliefs that cause them. So you get rid of the problems.

Can you speak to talk therapy and if there's any use cases where it would be healthy for processing or for somatic experiencing and then what the bridge looks like between talk therapy and your method?

I think therapy is really good for people who need to talk. You know, I always tell my clients, if you want to talk, go to therapy. Not that I don't let them talk. Of course they talk. Yeah, but not talk and talk and talk and tell me. Well, see, if you're attached to your story like, I love how you shared your story. This is what happened. My mother was bipolar. This is how I grew up. My father left and I created. I took that, ran with it, and created this amazing, successful life. You should see this house, you guys.

It's a castle.

It's a castle, and it's gorgeous, and it's filled with love. It's not opulent, and it's opulent, but it's warm and delicious. Thank you. So you have. You. You know that makes me cry. That inspires me. Right? I always say what you do interests me. Who you are inspires me. And that you're always growing and that you could have easily lived your life at the effect of your circumstances.

Yeah.

You had every.

I almost did.

You had every right to. You know, it's like, holy shit. You know, I said I'm sorry. I'm sorry that any child has to suffer. That's why I created a parenting course. I don't want children to suffer. Yes. They need to have hard things. And I'm not saying it should be easy. We grow. What doesn't kill us grows us. Of course, I'm not saying that. But to live your whole life at the effect of something that happened to you, that. See, here's my distinction. It was horrible while it was happening, but it doesn't mean anything. And you asked me at the beginning to explain how I'm compassionate. I hate that that happened to you. I wished you had had a loving, nurturing, amazing mother and a father who stayed and was wonderful, and it was horrible to go through, but the events have no meaning. I don't know anything for sure. See, that's what no meaning implies. I don't know anything for sure because something happened. My husband died. He was the most extraordinary human being that ever lived. I was devastated. But I used what I call the occurring process to get. That's no meaning to get out of bed. See, grieving is healthy. And I Cried a lot. But not getting out of bed is not healthy at all. So when I didn't want to get out of bed, I said, what happened? Morty died. What meaning did I give it? I'm going to starve to death. I don't know how to run a company. I'm the people girl. I want to work with people. Run a business. Shoot me in the head, are you kidding me? And he left me with this business. It was like. So I said, well, it could mean I'm going to starve to death, and it could mean I'm going to learn how to do it and step up. Which, of course, I did and tripled the business. Now, it's not where it should be because I'm not that kind of successful. I mean, successful is a funny word.

But it's very funny. It's got many definitions.

Yes. It's not where it should be. Like, this is. We've worked with hundreds of thousands of people. We should work with millions. We. You know, if my husband was alive, we would be doing research in every field. We would have people trying to get peace in the Middle east. Because that's all beliefs. Right. So I'm growing it. I'm doing it, but I'm not starving.

Yeah, but what I heard from you is not at the cost of your own emotional spiritual constitution.

Never.

We're not here to sacrifice and be a martyr for our mission if it goes against our. Whether you want to call it Soul Contract or how we came into the world. I think that's so beautiful because it's not about positive thinking. This, this whole conversation. I just want to be really honest. I'm actually a bit triggered. Not angry. And I'm not going to go on a frothing at the mouth, you know, jaunt on this. Yeah, but positive thinking has been so overused and. And it's such a really, like, almost narcissistic tool of a teacher to teach positive thinking. Can you talk a little bit about that? How positive thinking that hits a belief.

Yeah.

Is like an arrow hitting a glass.

Exactly. Exactly. It. It's. It's like. It's the same thing as trying to.

Like when you're talking in the mirror, I'm good enough. I'm good enough.

I'm good enough. Same thing you can say, I'm going to think positively. Life is hard. Life is hard. I'm going to think positively. No, I'm going to get what I want. I'll never get what I want. I'll never get what I want. That's your belief, but I'm going to think positively. And even if you're successful, it's exhausting. Who the hell wants to live like that? Oh, my God. Seriously, I want to make a point that you just alluded to that I think is very, very, very important. Important. I came up with a metaphor, which I talk about in my book, watering all the plants. So if you had a lot of plants in your house, you would never water just one.

Yeah.

Why?

Because you care about your plants.

But why would you only. Why would you not only water one?

Because the others would die.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So if you water your career plant to death, and it's vibrant and gorgeous, and you have a swimming pool and a house, but your kids don't know you, your fiance never sees you, you're not doing anything for your soul. You're not recreating. That's not a life. You're eating shit, you're not exercising. Not a life. I had a client call me. He said, jelly, I am on the COVID of business publications. I'm worth, in those days, 10 million, which was a lot of money.

Still a good chunk of money.

It's still a good chunk of money. Thank you. Because now all we hear about is billions.

Yeah.

You know, and seven figures, everybody. And that's the other thing, you guys. If you're on social media and you're scrolling seven figures, I'm going to teach you how to make seven figures. And, you know, and you can. Oh, my God. And you can take this course and you're gonna. It's like, why?

Yeah.

Why do you want to make seven figures?

Exactly.

You know, it's like, I get up every morning and I love what I do. I love what I do. I'm blessed to have something that I love. But guess what? I play pickleball either in the morning or after work. I see friends at night. I hike on Friday. I'm busy all weekend. I have a life, and my life is full and rich. Now I am missing a hot, juicy guy for the second act. Yeah, but that's gonna come.

The. The beliefs in my life that have meant the most to let go of, to identify and let go of. And I feel like I even heard you say this. I saw one of your clips on social media this morning, and it was around money. Money is a wound. It's not a belief. It's an observation. I see more conversations about money in my community, both online and in person, about how money is evil, rich people are bad, and money doesn't grow on trees.

You got it.

And you know what's wild, Shelley?

Yes.

Is in 2016, my very first public speaking I ever did.

Yeah.

I stood in front of a room at a hotel and I said, hey, guys, here's three things I've identified as my limiting beliefs. You ready? I'm broke, rich people are bad, Expect the worst to happen, and money doesn't grow on trees. That was 2016. That was nine years ago. And literally, it took me so. It took me like, five to six years before I really made any money. Because it's one thing for me to say in public that I have a belief. It's another thing for me in private to do the real work, to let go of it.

Yeah.

What comes up for you when I share that?

What came up is a moment of sadness because I'm not going to do the research that my husband would do if he were alive. I don't think. I mean, I may, but I want to study people like you. We used to call it resilience. Like, what is it that has one. See, most kids in most circumstances conclude certain things based on their circumstances.

Sure.

But there are some that say, yeah, watch this mother, Right?

Yeah.

And there was.

You can curse if you want to, if that's who you are. It's all whatever.

But watch this. You know who. And there are other kids who just go, I'll just. I'm broken. I'll never amount to anything. And listen, you guys, nobody's broken. That's bullshit.

Amen.

No one is broken.

Absolutely.

We have beliefs that keep us stuck, and when we get rid of them, we. We get unstuck. It is truly, truly, truly that simple. I have to tell you this. You'll love this. I worked with a guy who used to. He was very into personal growth and really committed, and he used to do this primal screaming where he would just go in a mountain with his group and the retreat, and they would all scream. And so we had 10 sessions. And I said, so what? You know, my. My thing is, what do you want to work on? And if there's nothing. If you let me think. Nope. Bye. See ya. No, I don't hold onto people. I don't do that. You know, and somebody once told me they thought I rejected her because I said, you got nothing to work on. She got rid of clinical depression. She got rid of. Everybody didn't like her at work. I mean, she had pattern after pattern. And we worked together for a while, and I said, carol, you're good. You're good, honey. And she. And she called me crying. I felt like you rejected me. I said, I'm not rejecting you. I love you. I'll have lunch with you, but you're not going to sit here and drag up things to work on.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

So the guy who was screaming, we worked together for 10 sessions. 10 sessions. He gets rid of all his patterns. And he says to me, I have a question. I said, what? He said, should I still do primal scream? And I said, well, do you feel like doing primal scream? He said, no. I said, if you feel like doing it, knock yourself out.

He wanted your permission slip?

No, he just wanted to know if he was. If he still had to do all that.

Yeah, he was.

So he had the belief, you know, like everybody, so many people, that you have to work hard to get results. You have to work hard to be successful. You know, when our parents were growing up, a lot of us, unless you're really, really young, listening to me, we all grew up with parents in an industrial world.

Sure.

Where you had a salary and a job and it was hard. You had to work hard.

Also, parents that grew up during wartime as well, there's a conditioning that can happen there.

Yeah. But today with the Internet, I make money in my sleep.

Yeah.

You don't have to work hard.

Yeah.

It's just not true.

This is so good. You know what was part of my surgery, and I didn't know about your work until recently, so shout out to Rick William for connecting us. If I would have met you in 2019, probably would have saved a lot of years in struggle because in my own process of somatic, experiencing emotional intelligence and now doing parts work, I. I've gotten to gleam some wisdom from my past. And you know what the wisdom is that like, tickles my hair on my arms when I tell you? It was that when I was growing up, my dad was always working all the time. And so I equated work to a disconnection of love. So if I. If I make money or if I'm successful, AKA if I'm working, which my mission takes a lot from me, it takes many hours a day, sometimes 10 hours a day, then that means that I can never receive love. I won't be loved, and I won't be able to give love.

Brilliant.

It was super deep.

Brilliant.

And when that happened, I just essentially said, well, forget that story. But see, here's the thing, Shelly, and this is what I want to ask you again. It took me a long time to get there because I believe and I wonder how you feel about this, especially with our friend Rick, the somatic intelligence and Bessel van der Kolk's work of the body keeps the score. And even the latch theory with Michael Edward Johnson and just all the exciting science, science around the physical body and our fascia and our muscles actually keeping the emotional score or the belief in it. It's not just the top down. So I want to, like, you know, respectfully push on your work a little bit here. We can just play with it.

Yeah.

Your approach is top down, but it seems to release bottom up. How exactly is it doing that?

It seems to. Okay, so whenever I hear the word somatic, I kind of go, you know, like, oh, God. Because for me. So Morty used to say, our work is a cognitive gateway to an emotional result. So I believe. I'm not against. Sometimes people say. I say, where was the belief if it wasn't out there to be seen? And the answer is, it was in my head. So some people say it was in my heart. And I say, your heart is a muscle that beats in your body. That's what it is. Everything else is coming from here. It's like pain. Pain is a perception. Your brain perceives pain. And people have been able to do operations without anesthesia because they're so powerfully controlled in their minds that they. They don't feel pain. Okay, so the mind is very powerful. People say a mind and body. No, it's a mind, body.

Yeah.

So my way is just a different way. It's from the mind into the body as opposed to just from the body.

Got it.

Because I think, you know, when you speak, I listen. Beliefs. Right. So my father was working all the time. The minute somebody says that to me, I write, I'm not important or I'm not loved or I'm not loved. Not lovable.

That was the one.

I'm not lovable. Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's funny that you say that was the one. The only belief that I can ask somebody to say out loud, because the first way, you know, you have a belief. So I'm going to do something. Everybody take a deep breath. Say out loud, I'm not good enough.

I'm not good enough.

Now say, I'm not important.

I'm not important.

Now say, I'm a monkey.

I'm a monkey.

So when you say I'm a monkey, that usually feels flat or silly. If when you said, I'm not good enough or I'm not important, it didn't feel good to say it. That's the first way, you know, you Have a belief. So when I said to you, say, I'm not important, there was a moment like this second before you said it, just to think about. So when I ask somebody to say, I'm not worth losing loving, if they have that belief, one of two things happens. They will either cry or they will look at me, and they cannot say it, or it takes a lot when the belief goes away. I say, now say the same belief. I'm not worth loving. And they say it and they laugh.

Yeah.

That's got to affect your body.

Listen, I did the exercise with you. I didn't want to say them. I didn't want to say any of them.

Yeah.

But I did it because I knew it was going to be helpful. And the monkey felt the same to me as the other two. They didn't feel real to me. And you know what's funny is even before you did it, I watched my. You could call it my higher self or my soul or my highest version of Josh. Whatever you want to say. I said I had a conversation very quickly in my mind when I was doing your exercise, and it said, hey, we know this isn't true, but let's do it anyways.

Yeah.

So the fact that I even had that conversation before I gave you the answers. Now, if that conversation hadn't taken place, then there would be some. Some deeper work there for me.

Yeah.

But the fact that I. I didn't even know what you were about to say, really. And then the first one came and I thought, that doesn't feel true. You know, none of them felt.

Yeah.

In my heart, in my stomach. Like the truth.

Yeah. But for most people, I'm not good enough. I don't think I've ever had a client in 35 years who didn't have that belief. Now you've done your work. Whatever you've done, you've done it well.

I. Thank you. It's a yes. And could that potentially be. I know I'm reductionizing here, so just bear with me. If there was one belief out of the. You said there's usually 10. If there was one belief that caused the most pain, that never meant what people thought it meant, what would that be?

I think I'm not worth loving. Causes a lot of pain because the one thing every human being wants is to love and be loved. So if you're not worth loving, that's pretty shitty. So that would be probably my guess. But here's the thing. I want to also speak to what you asked me about compassion. What I love the Most Josh, about my work, I love a lot of things, but people come out of every session better than they came in. So there's nothing. Never walking, like, with this opening, like, I opened up this can of worms, and now I got to walk around till next week, right?

Yeah.

So when the process. When the session is ending, I can do 3, 4, 5 beliefs in a session, Right. So I say to the people, where did that belief come from? Say, made it up came from me. Oh, is your life consistent with your beliefs? Yep. I never met anybody who had the belief life is hard who said, oh, yeah, but my life is a walk in the park. Our lives are consistent with our beliefs. So if you create your beliefs and your beliefs create your life, what does that make you?

A library of beliefs?

No, if you create your beliefs and your beliefs create your life. Who's creating your life?

The author of the beliefs.

And. But if you're creating. If you create the beliefs and the beliefs manifest, you are the creator of your life.

Absolutely.

Now, I work with people who've done a lot of spiritual work, and they don't answer that question right, but when they do, I then say, now, everybody, close your eyes. You can try this. It's very powerful. When you've just eliminated beliefs and you see that your life is consistent with your beliefs. But if you get a sense of what I'm talking about, you can do this. So close your eyes. You come into this world as a little ball of consciousness. Before you create any distinctions about yourself, life, or people, do any exist?

No.

In that space, what's possible?

Everything.

What limitations do you have in that space?

None.

You know, we live as if something's missing. If only this right now, as that ball of consciousness, as the creator of your life, is there anything missing?

No.

What does it feel like right now to make that distinction? So you might have known it. You might have written a book about it, but right now, in this moment, to create yourself as limitless possibilities, what does that feel like.

Of being held by God's peace and power?

Awesome. You can open your eyes, everyone. So that's how we end the process. And people say it feels liberating, peaceful, free, expansive. And that's what I leave people with every week. That who you are is a sculptor that created a sculpture called Shelley or Josh, and you put all these beliefs on her, and she's like this. And you can take them off and fix the sculpture, but who you are is God in your universe. Sculptor.

We're gonna get one big hug together after this podcast. Shelley oh, my gosh. I know. Like, when my hair on my legs stands up.

I feel like that's when.

I know we got to something.

I feel like we could sit here for 12.

Literally.

Literally.

Eat some snacks.

Totally. I.

One of the things that I love. Your love is contagious. Like, you're. You're very. You know, you're in this portion of your life where the candle's still burning bright. And I wonder, does your candle burn brighter now than it did before, or is it the same type of burn?

It's a great question. My candle burns brighter every day.

Okay.

My candle. Very interesting question. When I was 19, I was raised to get married and have children, and my brother was raised to go to college.

Is that like a typical Jewish family? Yeah. This way, do that way.

A lot of Jewish families are big on college, but when I was growing up, it wasn't quite there yet.

Got it.

Yeah. And When I was 19, I was engaged to stockbroker. Fabulous. Every Jewish mother's dream. And all my friends were getting married, and my friends were. The girls, 19 years old, were in the living room talking about furniture because they were all engaged to be married. And the guys were talking about sports in the kitchen. And I swear to God, I don't know where this came from. Josh. I went like this. I felt like all the air was being sucked from my body. And I ran into the kitchen and I said, jay, I can't do this. I had a big diamond ring on my finger. I can't do this. And I said these words. I have to be Shelley Fogle before I'm Shelly. Anybody else, I've got to do that. And for the next 10 years, I had the best life. I was in the travel business. I lived in Puerto Rico. I. I did a lot of fun things. So I always had that light. My mother raised me that life should be fun. That was her highest value, fun. And that I should be loved and popular and included, which is where my belief, worrying about what other people think came from. But my mother was an angel. I was very, very, very, very blessed. And here's the thing. The day that I saw Mordy do this process with someone, that's the day that my life had a purpose and a meaning that made it worth being here. Before, it was just fun. I was fun. Was. I was a hedonist. Just, let's have fun, and this is still fun. You know, somebody once asked Morty, what's the difference between working with you and working with Shelley? And he said, oh, you'll Laugh more with Shelley. I had somebody who. Carol. Who had clinical depression, who has shared publicly about our work. Clinical depression. We laughed so hard one day when I asked her, she said she had a malaise and I thought she said the depression was in male. My legs. My legs.

Yeah.

And I don't know why, but we laughed for 40 minutes.

That was the medicine that was needed.

Totally, totally. But. And you know, today she's not on medication. She had. She got married, she met this amazing man. You know, people made her a big going away party when she left and they hated her at the beginning. You know, she has a completely different life.

Yeah.

Are you kidding me?

Yes.

It doesn't get better than that.

The spirituality that you covered, when you took me through that very. You took all of us through that very short process where I came to the peace and wholeness with God.

Yeah.

This, the spiritual healing or the spiritual connection of this work around identifying beliefs and then doing the work to let them go. This is actually where I think we are as a society. If there's not any other thing that's more important than beliefs, I don't know what is. Because look at the way that our politics, our world, the way we treat our world, the way we treat each other. We've really normalized a disconnection from self, We've normalized a disconnection from other. But that is just a belief in itself. So if my belief from a societal lens, if society was a person and its belief said it's okay that people suffer and it's okay that children suffer, and, you know, none of, we can't control any of this is what I've heard. We can't control. You can only do your working yourself. But see, here's the paradox that I'd love to get your input on. It is ourselves. Society is an amalgamation of billions of selves that all came from the same source. And this may be spiritual, but so is everything. If one person, literally, if like, let's say 10,000 people from this podcast have a commitment to just look at their beliefs and do work on their beliefs. A ripple of 10,000 people is how 10 million people take notice. And then when 10 million people take notice, then a hundred million, then a billion. That's how change is created. So it's not about having this belief of, well, my life doesn't matter and I'm not special and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. These are all just beliefs.

Yes.

What do you make of this?

Well, first of all, from the spiritual standpoint, we're all One.

We're all the same.

We are all one. We came here, we incarnated to be separate, but we're not. That's the biggest myth.

Yeah.

And I'm going to go back to the practical because you can't do spiritual bypass. I mean, you can, but it doesn't work.

It has a debt. Yeah.

I want to talk for three minutes about parenting.

Yes.

I raised my children to believe that every human being deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, period. You can tell them you can't. I don't appreciate your talking to me that way. I will not be around you if you talk to me that way. You can have boundaries. You can say, I don't like it when you. But with respect. You can call the police on somebody with respect. So if everyone had the belief that every human being deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, maybe the planet would be different.

Yeah.

So from a parenting perspective, here's the bottom line on it. I have an eight hour course and this is on how to do what I'm going to tell you to do. Every time your child walks away from you, stop and ask yourself, what did they conclude out of that interaction? Did they walk away saying I'm a winner or a loser? Did they walk away saying, I made a mistake and it was a learning opportunity? When my kids made mistakes, we used to yell, learning opportunity. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. When my daughter was 9, she said, it's getting old, Mom. I got it. I got the message. But I didn't want them to have the belief mistakes and failures are bad. Right. So number one, what did my child likely conclude out of that interaction? And is that a belief I want them to have for the rest of their life? And if it's not, go back and clean it up. I was not a perfect parent. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, period. And your kids are going to have shit no matter what you do, but you can minimize it greatly. My girls are confident living their best lives and I am so proud of them, number one. Number two, at what cost? And you can use that in your lives, not just as a parent. At what cost must they go to bed at 7 o'? Clock? @ what cost must they eat their broccoli? I tell the story when I speak about parenting that I once my, my little one was Ms. No. That was the first words.

No. That's what Nya does. Everything's no. And we work backwards from.

There.

No.

Yeah. So we, I did all my parenting skills, like, should we fly into the Bathroom. Or should we hop into the bathroom? Because it's brush teeth time and I'm insane about teeth because all my teeth are capped. I've had. That's my karma. This lifetime is teeth. Okay, so I wanted my kids to brush and.

Floss. Yeah.

Yeah. So I did all. I finally get her into the bathroom and now she won't open her mouth, right? So I put my hand around her neck. I had the toothbrush in my hand. I'm ready to shove it in her mouth. And this little voice in my head said, at what cost? I would rather she have no teeth in her mouth than have the belief I'm powerless. So I stopped. I said, britt, I'm not going to force you, but I want to ask you a question. And this. Guys, you just do this one thing. Never ask why. Why is a terrible question. Even if you knew why, it's not powerful. But we don't know why. Why is meaning. Meaning's made up, right? What. What don't you like about brushing your teeth? Oh, the bristles hurt my gums. She was maybe 2, 3 years old. Yeah, the bristles hurt my gums. Oh, now I could get a softer toothbrush. I don't like the taste of the toothpaste. Oh, we can try a different one. What is it about school that you don't like? I had a client ask her kid that question and comes to me and finds out her kid is being.

Molested at school just because she asked the right.

Question. What not why don't you like school? What is happening at school that you don't like? What is it about broccoli that you don't like? We can try a different vegetable. So what is a really. Good. It's answerable. Remember, I'm a practical girl. What is answerable? Why? I don't know. And that's what you'll get from your kid. Why don't you like school? I don't know. Why did you hit your sister? I don't know. Yeah, what did your sister do that pissed you off? Now. Now we got a.

Question. Yeah. That's so amazing. And, you know, it's funny, we don't even really need to know the neuroscience of that. I'm sure there's a huge research. There's a ton of scientific explanation as far as language and children's brains. I love the simplicity that you bring to a very complicated field beliefs. And like, I interviewed Near Ayal and I've interviewed behavioral experts and Dr. Judd Brewer and neuroscientists and very Big thinkers. And what I got from it was really beautiful. And I think you're going to love this. This is what we give as a resource to everyone in the liberated life tribe and into life method. It is the BTFA loop. And guess what the B is Beliefs, Belief, Thought, feeling, action. So we have a belief, we feel something, we think something, and then we act upon it. But it all starts with the.

B.

Yes. And I knew this, like literally that speech I gave in 2016, a couple years after.

That. So.

Good. I think it was some of the people from your group. Group, the Transformational leadership Group and Jack Canfield and just being around that and honestly listening to Alan Watts and listening to Tony Robbins and just going deep on why do I do what I.

Do?

Yeah. Why do I want to be loving, but I can't be loving? It's a belief. It is always. I have found, and I wonder your thoughts on this. I have found it to be in my own life and even in my training clients in the past, and even with guests that come on the show that talk about their journey, it always, 100% of the time comes down to a belief that limited one's capacity to love themselves or to love.

Others. No, from my point of view, push back.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I think it's really interesting, you know, when you bring up Tony Robbins, it's such a great example of how powerful beliefs are. He gets everybody juiced and.

Jazzed. He gets him in.

State. In.

State.

Yeah. Gets him in.

State.

Yeah. Who is he successful with? Who's Tony's real successful? Who's he success? He's the. He was on the COVID of Forbes. He's the CEO whisperer. People who have the beliefs that allow them to do what he teaches. All the others are walking out hyped and jinned.

And. And then nothing happens. Yeah, and then nothing happens because.

The beliefs don't go away usually. Now, listen, everyone. I'm not naive. People eliminate beliefs. Tripping on a rock. Some people come out of Tony Robbins and they get rid of their beliefs. Of course it happens. I think you've done it. You know, it doesn't have to be. What I'm offering is a way to do it intentionally. I am about living life. And again, the most powerful word, intentional. Here's how most people live life. We go on a date, we have a good time. We go on another date, we have a really good time. Now we have sex. The sex is really good. Next thing you know, we're in a relationship. Did you ask, is he open to personal growth. Is he spiritual? Is he kind? Is he loving? What is his life about? Is he easy? Is he high maintenance? What do I.

Want? I asked 90% of those. Yeah, I was taking stock as you spoke.

Then.

Awesome.

Yeah. So most people don't. Most people, they take, they, they major in something in.

School.

Yeah. And then suddenly they get a job, they graduate college and somebody offers them a job. Next thing you know, they're in the job for 20 years. Did they ever say, what lights me up, what do I really want to do? What do I care about? No, they come to me and say, my mother told me I have to be a lawyer. I hate it. I wanted to be an actor. She said, actors starve. And I said, well, I don't know about that. You know, Tom Cruise ain't starving. So I think being intentional, whatever beliefs. So I don't put things in a box of. It's all about love. You have to love yourself or love others or love. You know, I'm more worried frankly about your children and screens. That's my new thing, you know that these kids are gonna be so.

Detached. Well, but in a way. And by the way, I'm curious. Right. Because you've been in this work for many decades. So I, I value what you have to say. How is, how, how do you believe I'm off with my focus or my navigation of beliefs being the number one culprit of, of shortening someone's capacity to either give or receive.

Love? Oh, I agree with you.

100%. Oh, well, I said that earlier and you know.

Misunderstood. No, I thought a lot of people ask me do I think that the most important beliefs have to do with love being loved or loving. Like a lot of spiritual people put everything in that box. It's all about love. No, it's not. You know, I'm the most loving person. My mother was loving in many.

Ways. Love is not enough. It requires, it requires other things. Love leads us to those other things. Yeah, but just to say love is all there is and it doesn't, it doesn't work. Look at relationships. If love was all that was needed, everybody would stay.

Together. You. So, so are you taken?

There's. There's so many things because love, I. And, and again, I'll pass it back to you. If love is a, is literally an awareness or a capacity, then once we have a large capacity, then we're open to other things that love. That love.

Informs.

Yes. Like skills of relational dynamics, like non violent communication, like taking care of your body or filling Your wellness pentagon. There's. There's so many things that love leads to. Yeah, but love detached from the other core skills is not enough. It's a great fuel.

Source. Yeah. You may love and not take care of your body and not exercise. Exactly. You know, you. Yes. So what you said beliefs underlie your ability to love yourself or love others. In my experience of 35 years.

100%. What, what, what makes me just as excited as you is the next decade of my life plus will be around emotional epigenetics, which is essentially the science and understanding of how we receive energy in motion trauma and how we let it go. And that world is so convoluted and there's so much woo woo and a lot of esoteric verbiage and honestly, just a lot of kind of word salad that people speak in the world of inherited child trauma. But one of the reasons I love Mark Wolin, who's a mentor, he'll be in the studio this year, is because he takes these concepts that can be so convoluted and so long winded and esoteric, and he brings them back down to earth so we can actually understand them and make them practical. And honestly, that's really a part of why I feel like I'm here on Earth is to take so much information from all these amazing guests that I have on that are world class experts in their field and then make it practical. I mean, in a way I don't have to do too much with you, it's more just fun. But with a lot of my guests, they're such big brains and they're such big speakers that I have to get really clear so I can say a message to the audience that makes sense. And I feel like that's one of my gifts. What do you feel is your ultimate gift here on planet Earth? What's your ultimate gift that Shelley.

Embodies to love? Well, I love Will. I'm a good friend and my value of friendship and everybody listening, get yourself, especially women, get yourself girlfriends. Cuz when the shit hits the fan and your husband dies, or you're in a car accident, as I was seven years ago, and your girlfriends, man, are there, I salute. You know, shout out to Marcy Scheimoff, who came to me and said she wrote a book called Happy for no Reason, New York Times bestselling book. And she came to me the night my husband died. It was the night. I'm in a women's group and it was the night of my women's meeting. So two of the women Came Marcy said to me, I will always be here to make sure that you can see, still be happy and have fun. And I said, marcy, I'm never going to have fun again. And three weeks, four weeks later, she said, shell, I got tickets to see Diana Ross. We're going. And then three or four weeks later or five weeks, she'd call and say, shell, we got tickets to see the Beach Boys. Shell, we got tickets for whatever. And for nine years, that's what she's been doing. And we have had more fun. And, you know, she saved my life. You know, girlfriends are everything. Friendship is everything. My mother taught me that. Relationship, that's my gift, this lifetime relationship. I cherish relationships. And when I see a being like you, I am so moved by. Even every time you say, you start to talk and say, I'm gonna bring it back to you. There's so many people who love the sound of their voice. And I've been on podcasts where I've sat there like this for, like.

15 minutes, and the person just.

Talks. I'm sitting there going, why am I here? You know, but you're a light. You really, really are very.

Special. Thank.

You. And Rick said that about you. He said, shelly, you're gonna love the podcast. I mean, I flew here. Yeah. He said, you know, he's. He's the.

Best. Well, thank you. It feels so good to receive that from you. And, you know, I'll pass it back to you. You said that your core. One of your gifts, maybe the biggest gift you have is relationship. You described it so eloquently. So then what is the core belief in all human relationships that hold people hostage, that block them from having a loving, dynamic.

Relationship? Such a.

Great. Either intimate or. Or.

Friendship?

Yeah. What is that? One or two people will hurt.

Me, and people will leave me? And when you're a kid, if one of your parents walks out or one of your parents hurts you a lot, that's what you conclude either, you know, and men. Men leave. I'm not what men want because I could never get my father's.

Attention.

Yeah. You know, but people will hurt me. It's not safe. You know, when. First time I heard anybody say, I, well, I'm not safe, I went, what? I just never didn't feel safe growing up because of how I grew up. I didn't know anybody whose parents were divorced. I mean, I grew up in this world that, you know, my mother didn't work. None of my friends. Mothers worked. You know, it was just a very, very Insular, kind of small. Small.

World.

Yeah. And now world has.

Changed. And some. Some for good and some I don't think it is. Yeah, we're in this weird bucket soup where we're figuring out how to evolve here. And then there's AI and technology and social media. You mentioned the screens with children. Really? I think to live life well, we have to be able to have a clear no and have a capacity to. To speak up. Like you mentioned earlier, you had a client that learned how to speak up. Yeah, I have to be able, as a father, as an entrepreneur, as a man, as a business person, when I really feel like something isn't right, it's my job to speak up. And if I don't, and I'll be respectful to everyone if we don't, it's actually cowardice. It's not a judgment. I'm not saying you're a coward because you didn't speak up, but you.

Can'T if you believe speaking up is.

Dangerous. This is what I was going to say that.

You.

Sorry. No, no. You did a great job. You did a great job laying it out. And I will ask you a question after this. I'm just. A lot of times I just verbally process because I see a picture and then I describe it to you, and I see the same picture when you're describing it to me. And then I just ask you, so what about this picture? So if that's the case, then the children we're raising, that'll literally be the next wave of either conscious or unconscious men and women. And then I think about my grandchildren. I'm just like, wow, it's such an amazing thing just to be able to be alive. It's so special. Special if everything that we're either embedding in them, like that moment with your daughter where you were asking yourself, at what cost? At what cost is the beliefs that our children forming and what is the one belief that really all children get to have, no matter where they come from or what is a message to the parents that you could share about a belief that could really supersede all.

Others? I'm not good.

Enough. So that would be the.

One. It is. It is. And just know every time you like. My daughter's a wonderful, wonderful mother, but every once in a while she loses patience and she goes, dude, they live in Hawaii, dude. Dude. I think parenting's tough. And that's why I created what I consider the manual for parenting. Because there is none. And we're all doing it by the seat of Our pants. And if I could sit here and just give a few tips, I would be so happy. But every time you criticize your child, they're going to conclude I'm not good enough. I'll tell you something. And the second belief is I'm not important. Mother's Day, my husband and I was having brunch years ago, and I'll never forget it. And there's this woman sitting outside at a restaurant and she's on her phone and her little 2 year old is in the stroller and she's going, mommy, mommy, mommy. And she's going, mm, mm. And she's playing with her phone going, mm, I'm listening. Mm. Normally I try very hard to shut my mouth because I almost got in trouble once for telling a man something. So I said to her, I'm a parenting educator. Would you be open to something? And she looks at me. And she said, yes. Now I live in Marin County. People are.

Open. She was open to it. Try that in.

Manhattan.

Exactly. She'd be like, go to.

Hell. Exactly, Exactly. So she looks at me. She said, yeah. I said, when you're playing with your phone, and this is my soapbox, you guys. When you're playing with your phone and your child is talking to you, what do you think they're going to conclude? And she looks at me and she goes, oh, my God. She goes, I'm not important. She said, that's how I feel when my husband does it. To me. It was like, yeah, yeah, I'm not important. If you're. If you can't, I will tell you in this interview. Josh and I have been locked eyes the entire interview. I once did a podcast, I swear the guy was like this. He would ask me a question and then he would look over there. And I was on Zoom, of course. And it really took a lot for me to not say to him, what are you looking.

At? What are you looking.

At? But it wasn't this flow conversation because it didn't feel like he was particularly interested, which doesn't make a great conversation. And I didn't feel like I was very important to him. Right. I don't feel not important, but to him. So as parents, I know there's a lot of noise out there, a lot. You go on social media, it's. For me, it's like screaming, screaming at me. Look at me. Look at me. Listen to me. Listen to me. That's why I don't have a massive following, because I can't stand it. Look what I ate. Look where I Went and look what I'm doing. And meanwhile, half the people are suicidal, you know, but, you know, I. I once my daughter said, so and so is getting divorced. And I said, oh, my God, they look so happy on Facebook. And she said to me, mom, everybody looks happy on.

Facebook. Yeah, you're getting the.

Highlights. So give your children attention. Either say, I can't talk to you right now. Here's. Here's what you say. What you have to say to me is very important. And I can't listen right now, but as soon as I'm finished with this text or at the end of my business day or whenever it's going to be, you will get my undivided attention. If you travel, call from the road. FaceTime. How is your game? Tell me about it. Make me feel like I was.

There.

Yeah. Five minutes. And it makes all the difference in the world. Your children want affection, attention, and acknowledgment. And they're asking the question, why? And it is most important that you give them those three things. It's about the rest of their.

Lives. And no pressure.

Yes. And.

Yeah. Last night I was laying in bed because I put my son to bed every night and I turned him and I said, nova, guess what? And I tell him this multiple times a day, probably 10, 15 times a day, but he now we're connected. And he goes, you love me? And I said, yeah, of course I love you. Do you know why I love you? And he said, why? And I said, because I've loved you ever since you were in your mama's belly. I've loved you ever since you were even a thought. I've always loved you and I'll always love you. And that's how I speak to my 4 year old, so that he knows. And you know why I do that? Because I never knew what that was like. It's not to blame those that brought me, because the fact is they brought me. And I'm grateful. I'm grateful they brought me. I live. I'm here with.

You.

Yeah. What I'm saying is our circumstances don't have to define our reality. The way we grew up, the love we either received or didn't, these are all just events. It's how we started the podcast, is how we're gonna end.

It. I just had the same.

Thought. These are all just events, and it's the meaning that I place upon them, and it's these long term memory banks of belief that either take me for a ride as a hostage or that I can dismantle and create new ones for. And it actually is that simple. Now, it's not gonna be easy. You might cry. But there's a blessing here. And the blessing is you can create your reality. You can literally be the player and the programmer at the same.

Time. Yeah. I have to say this because you got me nervous when you said, do you know why I love you? And you gave the right.

Answer.

Yeah. Right answer. So get rid of four words. Parents. Right. Wrong, good, bad. Never use them. Their judgments. Think about that. But I love you because I love you because my mother used to say, you are what to love. It's a Yiddish way of saying things. You are what to love. Nobody has your essence. That's why I never say I love you. Because Ever. Because then it's conditional and conditional. Love is very scary for.

Children.

Yeah. I love you unconditionally. They do not know that I ask. I used to ask in my parenting workshops how many people think your children know they're loved unconditionally. Everybody raised their hand. I go wrong. They don't. Nope. They.

Don'T. Oh my.

Gosh.

Yeah. This has been such a joy. I'm so glad you flew.

In. Me.

Too. And my assistant had created something special with you. And it was the recreate your life.

Program.

Yes. Which is amazing because recreating our life is where we all are. We're either creating it or not. Or someone else is creating it. Can you share with people what this gift is and how they can get.

Involved? You had me. So I totally forgot anything about.

That because I want to give us.

A place to go give them something. Yes. So here's what we're going to give you. You're going to go to recreatyourlife.com.

Josh.

Okay. And you can eliminate a belief for free. It is then going to take you to a site where you can. And that of course it's a minimal amount of money. Yeah. Purchase if you like what you did. There are 19 of the most common self esteem beliefs including mistakes and failures are bad. And if I make a mistake and I'm not good enough and all those. And you can purchase that if you so.

Desire.

Amazing. Yeah. And that's for people who can't work with me or won't work with me or don't want to work with me. That is a great entryway to just get rid of beliefs. You could do one a night. You could do two a night. You could do whatever you.

Want. And you know what's amazing is that there's nothing to Fear, because they're there whether you look at them or not. So you may as well look at.

Them.

Totally. It's kind of like if it became uncomfortable for people to hear my story about sharing my love for my son. If a parent is wanting to so desperately express love for their child, but they're realizing that for some reason, they have a belief that tells them they can. Can't. What a beautiful place to start the work. What an amazing place to start is right.

There.

Yes. If your capacity to love is diminished, there's a belief. So let's just get to the work, y', all, is what I'm.

Saying. Totally. We all. Here's how I look at it. Remember I said nobody's broken, but we all have places where we're stuck. Nobody has all the plants vibrant and gorgeous and.

Healthy.

Yeah. So just look at which one of your plants are drooping. Where do you feel stuck? Life is an adventure. I used to tell my kids, we'll close with this. You'll love this. I used to tell my kids, life is like a yardstick. Most people place somewhere in the first 2ft, 11 and 3 quarter inches. What life's about is the last quarter of an inch. Those moments where you're dancing on the edge. And like you said at the beginning, it takes courage. This is dancing on the.

Edge.

Yeah. But it doesn't have to be hard. And it can be fun and could be.

Fun. Jolly. Thanks for being here. What a beautiful conversation. I know this touched so many hearts. Y' all share this podcast with somebody because it's worth sharing, first of all. But also, I don't know one human being that I've ever met that has had perfect belief.

Structure.

Yeah. So we all get to do this work. It's not a have to. We just get to do it because it's there, whether we look at it or not. So from my heart to yours, thank you for being here. It's been such a joy. Y' all share this podcast and make sure you head over to that URL that's on the screen for. Recreate your life and start where you are. Be honest with where you are. Honesty creates clarity, and then clarity creates the speed. But you have to start with the honesty. So until we see you again on another podcast, I'm wishing you love, wellness, but most importantly, peace and power. You cannot have real power unless it comes from peace. We'll talk with you.