Not All Wisdom Needs Ceremony: How To Be SAFE In An Ayahuasca Journey | Wellness Force #Podcast

What is the key difference between the dark magic, the sorcery aspect versus the divine light, you know, God and spirit guiding the medicine? There is a black and a white there. Can you paint a picture of what that actually is?

Yeah, I mean, I think the easiest way is you take that picture behind you which shows the chakras and we call it the inner rainbow or the shungo. And is your intention to straighten that for somebody and open, open that and know how to guide that and remove any kinds of energies that are fundamentally not healthy and not of the person's well being? And can you bring mental clarity to the upper chakras? Can you again, connect them to earth and connect them to the greater multi d that you mentioned? And can you make that body and that being shine? And can you make the soul shine and the spirit shine and, and represent really true medicine? And when you can, you learn how to guide that in ceremony. And you don't leave it just up to the plants. You guide it truly from the beginning to the end of the ceremony through ikaros and through intention. And you know how to do that. You've been fundamentally trained in that art and in that skill. And you know, the dark arts is the exact opposite. The idea is to take that beautiful rainbow and distort it and twist it to fundamental mythologies that are about the nature of power and persuasion and the taking from somebody and trying to manipulate somebody. And so the difference is really easy to understand. One is where the true essence of everybody involved are trying to utilize the substances for the purpose of healing and real medicine and a practice that really does create a change of state from where somebody has an affliction so the affliction can be truly diagnosed. And just like in western medicine. And you can then utilize the plant medicine as a form of healing. And you have to know how to do that like a surgeon knows how to go in and do a knee replacement. You, as a practitioner of the plant medicine have to be trained to be able to diagnose somebody or look at them, understand where they're coming from. Energetically, you have to be able to then literally straighten out all of the problems that they have energetically in that multi d field that you talked about. And that in the visionary field looks, you know, just incredible, just unbelievable. It's a, it looks like to me like an exploding rainbow with all of life inside it. And you have to know how to navigate all of that and ultimately have the person come out the other side of their ceremonies having had healing and that you can See that the affliction is no longer there. You can now diagnose them as having had a healing transformation. The darkness is the opposite of that. So the darkness is a form of manipulation and a form of distortion that is coming from a really twisted kind of intention where there's power games and manipulations that are taking place. To literally do the opposite of healing somebody, it's like sleight of hand magic. It's filling them with illusion. It's taking somebody who's already in a state of need and putting them into an even greater state of need.

Yes.

And there's all different kinds of means to do that. And it's taking advantage of people in a way that is. You know, it's really frowned upon by the people who practice medicine. But it is understood that there is really a widespread expression of these expressions of sorcery and magics in the world, especially related to these plants, and that you need to be very careful about the practitioners that you interact with because of the power and influence that they can hold, especially when somebody's in a vulnerable state.

Yeah. There's this phrase in the Bible I just thought of, and I'm not a religious man, but it was profound, and it was, to those who have nothing more will be taken, and to those who have everything more will be given. And I think the same thing applies when it comes to predatory practices in plant medicine. Because when people are, like you said, in their deepest need, when they're on their knee and they truly want to heal, but they're so blinded by their own pain that their internal faculty of being able to decipher if they can trust someone, if they can intuitively feel someone's either dark or light energy. That's the part that I want to dig in with you today on. Because if affliction can be diagnosed and a skilled practitioner who spent 5, 10, 15 years training from his or her teachers in the jungle, that is a very devoted path that requires incredible sacrifice and dedication. Yet in ceremony, how does one go into ceremony and know that that person is pure versus they might look and breathe and smell exactly like somebody who's been doing it for six months and has that dark hand that they want to pass over everyone? How do we do this? Is there a. Is there a guide? Is there a template? Is there something to look for or feel to decipher? In ceremony, if somebody's darker light?

I think there is. I think you fundamentally are the litmus test of the other people that are there are the practitioners. And so I've always said the very first thing is that the eyes are the window to the soul. And so look at somebody in their eyes and see the practitioner and really look at them, ask them questions, see if they're open with you. See if they speak in a way that makes sense to you, if they're clear about what they're talking about. If they start telling you a whole bunch of stories that they're expecting you to buy into and believe right there, that's the first really big, you know, question.

What kind of stories? What kind of stories?

Oh, stories about how the, the Rainbow Serpent is supposed to come and eat you. But why? That doesn't make any sense to me. How is that healing? You know, that, that, that all you have to do is surrender yourself to them. Why? Like they, it should be opposite. They should be surrendering themselves as the practitioner to you. They're there in service to you. You know, saying that it's, it's totally normal to have these really horrific things happen and not have a resolution come to them. Like, oh, yeah, just kind of like just brushing off the, the dark or the, the really intense experiences that people can have associated with it. And why. I've always thought that you can, you need to do as much research as you possibly can about a practitioner and really try to, to hear from as many people as you can, you know, the experiences that, that people have had, good and bad. Not everybody's going to have a good experience with, you know, over the history of a course of a shaman's life.

Right?

So there's going to be criticisms of different kinds, but look at those, understand those, stay rational, you know, be grounded in the best of your ability when picking somebody to have these experiences with. And I think the real key is to understand how important the person is who is administering the ceremony. So just don't make the mistake of thinking, oh, it doesn't matter who's administering the ceremony because it's all the plant medicine. No, no, on the contrary, the people who are administering that ceremony are unbelievably important to the outcome that you're going to have. And so, you know, I think those are the easiest ways. And there's enough, you know, there's enough out there that, that it is possible to become educated now on this. And it's not a whim or a flight of fancy. This is a real medicine. It needs to be treated as a real medicine. It has been treated as a real medicine in the Amazon for thousands of years. No one, literally no one is allowed to touch ayahuasca, that is not a trained practitioner in the Amazon. Like, they don't do it. What happens if they do?

What happens if they got caught using it and they're not properly trained?

Oh, no, it doesn't happen. Like, it just doesn't happen. They're not. It just literally doesn't happen. So it's, you know, now, you'll see because of the tourism industry, people selling it on the streets, flyers being handed out, come to the ceremony, drop in here, like it's just some kind of normal thing. But if you go deep into the jungle, into the small river towns and into the indigenous communities, and you do not see that just the practitioners who've trained are the only ones who actually even have it, and they administer it in true healing ceremonies, and it's something that is considered very sacred.