Rachel Fiori | Emotional Intelligence: The Ultimate Guide To Self Mastery | Wellness Force #Podcast

Your soul's potential, you grow through pain. When we resist growth, we suffer. When we remain emotionally and spiritually immature, we resist and fight. What is. We take stances. We create and continue to manifest duality, programs of separation. You're wrong. I'm right. Right. Inferior, superior. This is all. These are all examples of. Okay, that's okay. If you want to manifest that, you can create that in your life and experience that if you want to. Most likely you're to start to suffer, though, because you're refusing and resisting what the universe is offering you. The challenge the universe is offering you in order to grow and growth really means to drop into my heart space, get out of my mind, drop into my heart. Thinking ruins everything, live from heart centeredness in the sense that I am so powerful that whatever the universe throws at me, no matter how painful, I will love myself through it. And I will love everything and everyone that comes my way, even when it's painful, that is. Your soul's potential is to spiritually maturate your human potential means I can become so emotionally resilient that no matter what the universe throws at me, I got it. I'm going to make it through, no matter what. Sam.

Rachel Fiore. Welcome to wellness for us. It's been a long time coming. I'm so excited you're finally here.

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you, Josh.

What a journey it has been with your guidance. Oh, my gosh, where do I even start? Beyond just. Thank you. I have a lot of people that I've learned from in this world, and this episode will almost be number 400. So it's such a joy to finally get you in the guest seat. You know, it's usually the other way around where you're coaching and guiding me, and it's been so many thresholds that have been broken. I know you as a leader, as a guide, as someone who can really alchemize where people are in their lower self and how to bring them to their higher self. But, Rachel, if people don't know you and maybe they just saw you in public and, you know, there's that phrase that everybody asks, hey, what do you do? If somebody asks you that phrase, what would you tell them based on who you are today in this moment?

Sure. Thank you very much and thank you again for having me here today. It's such a pleasure. So I am a mystical therapist. I am a divine spiritual teacher of divine truth. And what that means is I help to elevate people to their Fullest potential they can reach in this lifetime, but their fullest divine potential. So I train individuals, I certify coaches on how to master life and love. That's how you put it simply, how do you master life and love? I've created how you do that. That's what I do.

Yeah. And your story is rich, so we're going to share when it's applicable. This concept of potential, we hear about it everywhere. I mean, it's like. It's a buzzword. And I think it's a perfect jumping off point for our flow today for our podcast, because so many people understand the concept of potential. You know this phrase we hear about in personal development, where it's like, how do you actualize your potential? But what exactly do you believe that potential truly is? As someone who is a healer, someone who's skilled in the mystic arts, someone who understands both the science and the practicality. As people heard in the intro, you're a master of not just self, but also so much time that you've spent as an OT and in the Western medical world to understand all these nuances. So from that lens of both the science and the spiritual, how do you define potential? What does that actually mean? Human potential?

Sure. What a beautiful question. So the first thing is, let me shatter what everybody thinks their potential tends to be. And that is how, quote unquote, successful you are according to society. And a lot of times that means how much money you make. I don't bother with any of that low level of consciousness. It's okay that you want to do that. There is never judgment. You go, do you? That's okay. I don't bother with that. And the reason is because when you focus on those things, you're completely limiting yourself. You're limiting what your soul is here to do, experience, and grow through. And I am here to shatter limitation. Okay? And that means to live in divine reality, not in what you wish you had, but in what you are actually capable of doing. And what you're capable of doing is learning and growing, and then you gain new skills along the way. So reaching your fullest potential, the most magnificent version of you, requires you to understand one really critical spiritual law. And that is you are spirit, but you are also human. You're both. That's the human spirit integration point. That is where transformational healing takes place. That is where when you integrate the two of those things together, you can then be on your path of reaching your fullest potential in this lifetime. If you're extremely spiritual and you get all Woo woo. And go up to the clouds. Guess what? Oftentimes people who take that journey are completely denying their humanness. They're denying half of what they are. Never reach your full potential. And I mean never. You can't. It's not possible. And if you're stuck in all the human stuff and you only focus on your human self, you have no idea that you're some divine spirit and you don't want to listen to any of that crap. That's okay. But you're absolutely denying half of who you are. And when you deny half of what you are, you are not functioning in wholeness. This is where we then go through the channels of suffering so that we can wake up and learn who we really are and reach that full potential.

Yeah. And the suffering. I wish there's a part of me that's like, oh, do we really have to suffer, Rachel? And the answer is yes. There's just something about the thresholds that we move through as human beings that is so unequivocally powerful when it comes to our growth. In other words, like, we've all seen the plant come through the concrete, right? Sometimes the most beautiful plants grow through rocks. I think nature is this beautiful. I mean, Mother Nature is so powerful the way she teaches us. And there's nature and there's like, spirit potential, and then there's human potential. This is one of the coolest concepts I learned from you. So for people that don't know the full story. It's been almost a year now that I've been working with Rachel. I consider her to be not just a coach, but a colleague, a friend, somebody that can really be trusted. And I know this cause I used to run Prove it to Me programs in our sessions all the time, which we're going to talk about programs and what programs actually mean on this podcast. But before we get into programs and you're the Fiore method, just share with people the difference between the human potential and the spirit potential. It's something I've never really heard on a podcast ever.

Sure. Yeah. It's again, going back to what I mentioned already is we tend to go down one stream, down one lane, and we focus on our human potential and how what we can succeed with, what's our level of success, what I want to do for a career, what I want my house to look like or my car to look like or my clothes to look like. It tends to be grounded in a lot of times, materialistic, egoic, superficial things. That's true. That's part of our shadow self, our lower self we have to grow out of. But our potential tends to be, how fast can I run this marathon? Can I break the record that you're. You're not going to do it in a. In 0.5 seconds because you're limited by the human body. But what can your human potential reach versus your soul's potential? Your soul's potential is always to awaken. No, but for real this time. Like, wake up for real. It isn't to be spiritual. That means nothing. It's okay that you are wonderful, sure, fabulous. It doesn't mean you're woke. Right? We love to think we are. But the soul's potential. Can you raise your level of consciousness? Can you grow through pain? And it comes back to the whole suffering thing. Humans, without realizing it, of course, they choose to suffer because they don't know the difference between pain and suffering. Okay, your soul's potential, you grow through pain. When we resist growth, we suffer. When we remain emotionally and spiritually immature, we resist and fight. What is. We take stances. We create and continue to manifest duality, programs of separation. You're wrong. I'm right. Right, Inferior, superior. These are all examples of, okay, that's okay. If you want to manifest that. You can create that in your life and experience that if you want. Most likely you're going to start to suffer, though, because you're refusing and resisting what the universe is offering you. The challenge the universe is offering you in order to grow and growth really means to drop into my heart space, get out of my mind, drop into my heart. Thinking ruins everything. Live from heart centeredness in the sense that I am so powerful that whatever the universe throws at me, no matter how painful, I will love myself through it. And I will love everything and everyone that comes my way, even when it's painful. That is. Your soul's potential is to spiritually maturate your human potential means I can become so emotionally resilient that no matter what the universe throws at me, I got it. I'm going to make it through no matter what.

People don't know this, and maybe we'll throw it in, in the B roll at the end of the episode. But before we record it, I asked Rachel, I said, what are you most grateful for? And you said, something so powerful. You were like, I'm grateful for what I've been through because it gave me the strength and the power to essentially lead people in the way that I do. And that is not spiritual bypassing. That is not placated. That is not some platitude on social media, like, you've really been through it. So this concept of like human potential versus spirit potential, you had at one point in your life, you had all the things that society deemed like, successful. Right. You had the degree and the practice and money was flowing in and you were working in a professional setting. Like, you had all this stuff. But there was something that was missing. What was it? Because it's what led you to masters of selfuniversity.com, where you're training coaches across the world now. So what was it back then when you were an OT in the traditional model that just really was. Wasn't working for you. It was a friction that you felt in your heart and soul about how you can actually help people.

So it is a combination of a lot of things. But to be specific to what you're asking in Western medicine, which, look, there are aspects of Western medicine that are wonderful, especially when it comes to emergencies. In an emergency situation, I will take Western medicine any day. I will make that very clear. In most other scenarios. No, thanks. I'm good. I got myself. I'll do other holistic treatments. So what I realized, I got really curious of how. Why some people would heal and other people wouldn't. That's just been part of my own path and awakening is that curiosity. Why do some heal so easily and some just don't and won't? And then the other thing was in incorporating divine healing and energy healing in with patients and witnessing miracles with my own eyes. But I can't bill for that. I can't put that in the medical documentation on my patients. I have to keep that a secret, that this just happened. And it got to the point where the things that I saw behind the scenes when I was told, let's start this program, let's do this. And it was such powerful ideas and incredible ideas that would be channeling through me. This is what we could do to help heal people and promote wellness. And it was like, rachel, but sick people make us money. That was the answer I got for years in Western medicine. Yeah, but that sounds all la la nice, Rachel, but sick people make money. So we need people to be sick, to come here. They have to be unwell. They're like. And you want everybody to realize their potential, that they don't have to suffer through most of what they suffer through? Well, yeah. Isn't that why we're here in the medical profession, in the therapy, in the therapeutic setting? Like, we're here to help and heal. Oh. So it got To a point where morally, ethically, I said, I don't want any part of this anymore. That's why I went out on my own. I started my own business, and I started to heal in the way that I was divinely guided to help people and coach people and help them on a deeper level.

Yeah, And I can't even imagine, like, the expectation hangover. I'm stealing that phrase from a friend, Christine Hassler, and she wrote an entire book on expectation hangover, where we, like, approach something that we thought was going to be one way, whether it's like, a relationship. In your case, it was being an ot. It was helping people, it was healing people. And that must have been, like, very alarming to your nervous system, because essentially, like the house of cards, the dream fell to the floor. So, like, how do you come back from that? Was it a period of time where you had to do a gut check, a soul check moment?

So, honestly, it's a level of when you really, truly have. You drop into your heart and you have the faith that no matter what you're experiencing is for your own good. It is for you to grow through, to reach your highest potential. Period. It is that simple. It is that black and white. So I don't ever question when anymore. I used to, trust me, I used to, God damn it, I don't want to go through what the hell.

To the older Rachel back in the.

Day, to the older me, of course, like, the back then, when I wasn't as conscious that I would definitely offer resistance. I study so hard, I became a specialist. I work really hard, I follow my guidance. And now you're telling me, get out. You know, so I definitely had resistance back in the day. I promise. I just don't anymore. Because you learn that it is always for a reason, just because you don't understand it. Oh, let's get out of our egos. Let's get out of our arrogance, our entitlement. Like, we can comprehend what the universe has in store for us. Give me a break. You got to let it go. And you have to trust that what is happening right now, what I'm being guided to do next, I'll understand at some point. No matter what it is preparing you for what's coming. Everybody could understand that. It is always preparing you for what's coming. Okay, simple analogy. I can give you if a fifth grader is going to be, I don't know, gonna work in financial accounting, do financial investments or something at fifth grade, they're not ready. So what do you do at fifth grade. Oh, you have to do investments. That doesn't even make any sense, right? Just study math. Like get good grades in math. Like you're going to fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, you're gonna graduate high school, you're gonna go to college. Those are all for a reason. It's preparing you for what to come. For what's to come. So whenever you get end a relationship, get fired, your car crashes, and you can't buy a new whatever the universe gave to you, what am I meant to learn? How am I meant to grow through this? Who am I meant to become because of this experience? That is a conscious perspective that will allow you to gain the lessons, the skills, the growth. You'll move through the growth and you will be one step closer to what you're here to really do.

And be an offer OT occupational therapy for people that don't know in a couple sentences, what is that really occupational therapy?

Occupational therapy is provide you with the skills for the job of living. That's their kind of logo. I specialized as an occupational therapist in mental, emotional and behavioral health, and pediatric and adult. And that's what led me to also add to my skillset, becoming certified coach and you know, studying and getting way more education in order to really specialize. But in mental, emotional behavior health is what I specialized in as an occupational therapist.

One thing that I've always received from you since last year, we started working together during the lockdown, you know, during the craziness. And wow, did my programs come up. So I want to start this second segment of the conversation with talking about programs. You know, we had Bonnie Kelly on the show that talked about like a computer softw analogy to the brain. But something about working with you just stuck to my soul. Because this concept of like, what is a mental program, what is a behavioral program, what is an emotional program? Like, essentially the same ways that keys are pushed on a keyboard and they deliver a certain result. We all have these. They are passed down generationally, epigenetically, however you want to put it. When did this start to come online for you, this concept of programs? Because I think you're really like world class. I've never heard somebody describe it or teach it the way you do. It's been fucking game changing for me, I'll just tell you that. So when did that come online for you and share with people what that actually is when it comes to the ways that we sabotage the ways that we procrastinate?

That's just it. So let me say this first. When I created all of this game changing. It is life changing, it is soul changing with how you can move through the world when you learn this stuff. It certainly was for me and it was for I still had patience. I was also coaching simultaneously. It was for my patients, it was for my coaching clients. Which is why I dove into the research and created what I create now and what's offered at Master Self University. So when you really begin to understand how we show up in the world, how we show up in our relationships, why we get triggered the way that we do, why are we behaving the way that we are, it takes it to a level that is so profound, it dissects it. Your mental programs, your emotional programs, your behavior programs, most people try to change even things like cognitive behavioral therapy, traditional psychotherapy, focus most often on behavioral programs. That means how you're showing what your behavior is and just choose differently or you can always take a better choice. No, that's not how it works. You will never heal the conflicts and what's coming up in your relationships. You will never heal the struggles and why you can't seem to get ahead or fix this one thing in your life if you focus on behavior. Okay, the funny thing about behavioral programs, those are the ones that send us to prison, those are the ones that get us arrested, those are the ones that cause the divorce, those are the ones that get us in trouble. And yet they are never the ones to focus on when it comes to healing. Never. You focus on behavior, you're never going to heal anything. To go deeper, what mental programs are you running? What is your mind telling you about what's going on? What are the emotions that are coming up? Because they all have a story. And when you learn how to work with mental emotional behavior programs, you also then learn what your inner child is doing, saying, being activated, how old you really are. When you're triggered and something of discord is activated within you, you'll realize that in your romantic relationship, for example, that a nine year old is coming up and showing up and taking over your relationship. We don't want a nine year old to handle your romantic relationship. We want the mature adult to be in the romantic relationship. So you learn what all these pieces are at the deepest levels, and I mean the deepest transformational levels, in order to then see them, love them, take divine responsibility for them, and then transform them so they're no longer a part of who you are. So that's the work in a nutshell.

And when we first met and we first got into your programs. I was, like, trying to compare you. I was like, she's kind of like Byron, Katie. She's kind of like all the other contemporaries that I've heard, but not really, because a lot of this radical ownership that's talked about in the spiritual world, it's talked about from, like, a one size fits all template.

Yes.

I'm not here to say that your work is extremely, massively complicated, but I am here to say that just because your work might seem simple, where you drop into your heart space, which we can talk about, and you actually love the ugly, nasty parts of yourselves, it's way deeper than inner child work. It's simple, but it ain't fucking easy. Let's just be real about that. So that's really what we're talking about. And so over the past year, for me, what's unfolded the most that I've been, like, waiting to really share with you live on the podcast has been the utter unraveling of how massively large my ego sabotages me.

Yeah.

And I know there's some part of you that already know this, but I want the audience to feel this too, because, like, a lot of people have been with me since the beginning of the journey, you know, 2015, where I was, like, asking God on a golf course in the middle of the night for guidance with tears in my eyes. So there's certain people that come into my life that have really shaped the fabric of how I can love and how I can show up. And you've been one of those people, which is why this is extremely emotional for me. And also, like, I'm excited to give people these tools. So many things that we learn in the industry of personal development or wellness. At first glance, it might be like, oh, yeah, I know that, but are you doing it? So that's what this is really about. So my big question for you is, why is it that people know but don't do? We get all the books, we get the certifications, we do all the things, but there's this bridge between knowing and doing. Like, what is. What does that bridge mean to you? How do you see that unfold with your global clients?

Yeah, so there's a couple of answers to that, actually. And the first is we don't have enough teachers that teach at this level. And so people do the best that they can with what they have. That's. First of all, it's a combination of that, and it's a combination of knowledge. We think and we've been taught that knowledge is power. Knowledge ain't shit, it's not. Wisdom is power. There's a difference. Knowledge integrated is wisdom. When you have a digital age where everything's at everybody's fingertips and we still are unconscious and as humanity as a whole, the shadow side to that is quick fix. This will happen in three easy steps. This will happen in five minutes. This will be. We've lost divine responsibility. We don't even know what it means. We think in this arrogant, self entitled way, especially in the United States of America. We're so entitled in this country. We think we can have anything we want just by the snap of a finger. Just because I decide and set my intention that I can have anything that is absolute divine ignorance. Because you cannot. You absolutely cannot. It doesn't mean you can't create and manifest a lot of things in your life that are really fun, great to experience. Of course you can. But you are a co creator. You are not the creator. You are a co creator. And that means there are certain things that for your soul's growth you're going to go through. I don't care how abundant you think you are energetically, vibrationally, if your soul thinks that you should move through absolute poverty just because that is what's going to shatter your goddamn ego and you're going to rise to another level, then you're going to go through that. This is what it means to learn the teachings of truth. The teachings of divine truth is to have a much deeper understanding than we have right here today of what we are really here for and what we're here to move through. And here's the deal. Spiritual awakening is not easy. And it is not for the faint of heart. It is a warrior's journey. It is a process that is lifelong. Not a month long, not a retreat long. I went to nine ceremonies. Now give me a break. That does not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. It's when no matter how well you meditate and no matter how many times you go to yoga, when this thing comes into your life and it shatters you and it tears you apart. I don't know.

Huh?

Like a pandemic, how do you react? Because that lets you know your true level of consciousness and how much farther you need to go to shatter anything in you that judges, points, fingers, fights, blames, and is unsettled and not in absolute peace in your heart with what is happening.

So with that bridge, what is it about the human experience? Because I think there's two people on that bridge, Rachel. Like one of the people is someone holding a Soul contract. And then the other person on the bridge is like, oh, well, there's free will and choice. So do you believe that? Do you believe that experiences are predestined, but the free will, choice is up to us? Like, how do you explain soul contract versus free will and choice?

Absolutely. So simplest analogy that I tend to give is soul contract. Means you are going to go through certain experiences, period, end black and white. You're going to go, you're going to meet certain people, you are going to have certain things that you move through because your soul says, this is how I want to grow this time around. This is what I want to learn this time around. I want to learn these certain lessons in order to then be able to embody the gift that comes with that. So there are certain things that you've chosen. And this isn't anything outside of you. This is you. It's just your monad, your higher soul. This is the higher version of you before you came that said, no matter what, we're going here. That's why, you know, I gave the example before. I mean, you could be the vibrational frequency of a billionaire and lose everything. Because if your soul says you want to, you're going to go through that. You are, you just are. It's not, what did I attract or what did I do wrong? Your soul said, this is what you're going through, so get in the shit, get, cover yourself up with all the piss and shit and smell it. Because you're going through it like that. You're going through it in between all of those things that our soul has chosen, we get to manifest and create and do whatever we want. And when, because of free will, choice, which is like the downfall of man, by the way, but because of free will, choice, when we have certain things that are destined, oh, I don't want to go through that. And we're still spiritually immature and emotionally mature. I don't want this to be happening. This isn't what I want my life to be. Like, we've all been there. We've all been there. Then we fight and we resist, and that's when the universe tends to come and kick you in the ass. And then stuff gets harder and then like, something worse happens or whatever. It's like, like you're going to get this lesson because you chose it beforehand. You might as well surrender to what is. Ask what you're meant to learn and learn what it means to embody divine grace. Move through this and surrender.

You hit on something really that I haven't explored yet. And that is like the down. You said the downfall of man is free will, choice. What do you mean? What do you mean by that?

Well, because your soul chose certain things prior to coming here. So let me give a simple example. If I knew me human Rachel, not my soul, but me Rachel, if I knew that this relationship, oh, I met someone new and I got so excited and I'm going to have this real, oh, I'm so excited about him. And then suddenly I realized, oh, my God, he's going to be a total narcissistic, manipulative motherfucker and he is going to do terrible, horrible things to me and he's going to lie and take advantage. I'd be like, no, thank you. And I'd go in the other direction. I would go down that path. Would you? No way. There is no way. And yet there's the relationship. And there you go through that shit. So when you move, you would never choose to do that if you knew ahead of time. That's what you had to go through in order to learn what you were meant to learn in order to learn discernment, in order to use your voice in a more powerful way, in order to learn how to honor yourself instead of someone else controlling you or telling you what to do. Simple examples, few examples of what you can learn there. Did you learn it? Awesome. That's why you went through it. So we wouldn't do that if we knew everything that was going to happen in our lives. It has to unfold in order for us to grow through it and gain the lesson and the gift from it. That's why we're here. Free will choice would be like, no, thank you. No way in health. So here's the other thing, though. There are certain things that because of free will choice, oh, I don't want to go. That I'm not going to do it. No, no. Oh, that doesn't feel in alignment with me.

Yes. That's a big one that we hear. Only do what feels good. It's like, well, plants grow exactly right. It's not the laws of nature.

And we totally misunderstand this. So we're going to start to mention in these programs thing. Here's the problem. People don't get the programs, your subconscious programs, what is in there, how your mind works, your mental programs, your emotional programs. If you have the opportunity of a lifetime over here, and yet, oh, I don't. I'm not in alignment with that because you don't know. It's the opportunity of a Lifetime. But what you're drawn to. Oh, no, I feel I resonate with this over here. You're sabotaging yourself. The reason why you're not vibrating and feeling synchronistic with this or resonating with this over here is because the programs of low self worth, fear of success. For example, the fear of, oh, I can't go that big. I can't go. I got to keep myself small. And you might be clueless that those are the programs that you run. Oh, my God, this seems so great. No, I feel in alignment with this over here. Give me a break. Let that shit go. If you learn to function from what programs got activated at every given moment. You're like, oh, my God, wait a minute. Although I really want to go over here, take this job, for example. I don't want to have anything to do with this thing. I'm not resonating. But you get curious. This is what emotional and spiritual maturity starts to teach you. What's the deeper reason why I want nothing to do with this? What is the deeper reason? What programs am I running? You work on transforming those programs and you see, oh, my God, I'm totally afraid. This could actually be the biggest, baddest thing I've ever done in my life and I'm scared shitless.

Or this person sabotaging actually be the one who loves me and I'm scared shitless.

Yes.

About opening my heart again, because last time it opened, it got crushed. So I'm gonna run this program on all men or all women, that they're bad, they can't be trusted and expect the worst to happen. I mean that right there. And by the way, when I started doing my programs with you, there was a part of my logical mind that was like, trying to sabotage you. Okay, so everyone, total truth moment, like, going through the emotional inventory, and before I met you and before I got into your work, like. Like I had been working with people and doing what I call an emotional inventory where I write down things that are causing me pain, things that are causing me love and gratitude, and then I would circle the top two and I would call somebody and receive support. That was a very, like, basic level of what I believe you've created, which is a very deep and very specific emotional inventory of what program am I running, AKA what is something that is taking me out of love, out of peace, out of harmony with self. So can you talk about just that one starting off point? Because look what I can promise you guys, if you go into Rachel's work, I Can promise you it works. But I will not promise you that you won't cry, that you won't go through pain, that you won't go through the shadow, but share with us that jumping off point for everyone that's feeling the call.

Yeah, it's the deepest work you'll ever do. That's the simplest thing I can say. And there is no such thing as if I, you know, just use positive affirmations or positive vibes only. That is a load of horseshit. Let me just say that because that's the truth. There's no such thing in real life. We feel pain, period. End in real life. There is such a thing in the human experience called negative lower emotions. Okay? Negative emotions. They're the lower emotions. They're the ones that feel bad and they're real. And they are our best spiritual communicators to alert us to something that we need to awaken to see, embrace love, heal within ourselves. That's it. So when we deny, we pretend like it's just positivity only. You're denying half of who you are because in the human experience you feel emotional pain. Things cause emotional pain. If everyone in your family died tomorrow, would you be like, oh, positive vibes only if you had a three month old baby. I used to be a specialist, a developmental specialist on a nicu. It's a neonatal intensive care unit. If anybody doesn't know what that is. It's where all the premature babies go when they're born to help keep them alive, hopefully save their lives. You let a parent who has had this little teeny tiny premature baby for eight months in a nicu, every day is touch and go. You don't know if the baby's going to die, don't know if it's going to live. Every day the horror of that for eight months and the baby dies. You tell them positive vibes only. Give me a break. That is a denial of reality. And here's the truth. Mysticism, everything we teach at Masters of Self University, it is a mystical institution of higher learning. It is bringing mysticism back. And that means bringing reality back, dissolving the egoic illusion. And one of them, hello, surprise for some of you is. Is positive vibes only. No. That means you're denying all the pain and trauma that is left unhealed inside of you that is screaming at you to wake up, see it, embrace it, love it and transform it. And that, my friends, that's the real work. That is the real work. That's the real work. That's when you're authentically beginning the journey of awakening. It's not how much you meditate or how many times you namaste to people or how many you wear white robes around. Like that doesn't mean you're awakening. It's going into the darkest depths of your ugly, of your shadow self. You do not become light until you go into the darkness. Period. End. That's spiritual truth at its core.

It might be like, it might take people aback to be like, wow, she seems like she's very passionate about this. Yeah. Because you have a story. The way that you were able to develop this concept of what program am I running? Is it emotional, Is it behavioral, Is it a mental program? It's because you yourself have been through the fire. I mean, at 13 years old, you woke up to the realization like what you had been through with on your fifth birthday, your dad had passed and, you know, your mom had partnered with a bipolar stepfather. You went through the gauntlet of that. And I don't bring this up with anything other than reverence and respect. And also just to share that this happens to so many people. So, so people can understand your heart. Can you talk about that time in your life? Because the programs came from this, the concept of programs came from this space. So share with us so that we can understand a little bit more of you.

Sure. So, you know, simply put in a summary, my childhood, you know, after my father died, very shortly after that, my mom met this man who became my stepfather. He was a physician, M.D. so well respected. He became very well respected in his work, of course, as doctor. Right. You know how we respect those in this country.

Country.

And so nothing could ever be wrong with him. But he was a bipolar psychopath. He was extraordinarily abusive, you know, psychologically abusive, mentally, emotionally, sometimes physically. And the abuse that you suffer on a daily basis. I lived in that fight, flight or freeze every second of my life, except for when I was asleep. And there were moments, short term moments, when I didn't have to live in such fear of what was going to happen to me when I knew he was at work and wasn't coming home for a while, if there was like an hour, it's the only time I actually could sit and relax and my heart rate wasn't a million miles a minute and fear and panic of what was going to happen to me. So, you know, part of being so abused and told how stupid you are, being told at a young, such a young age, you barely know it, barely heard of the word but being called a horror as a little girl, you know, it's you. You. I started to run the programs of like, oh, I have to be better. I have to. I'm not good enough, right? I have to. Please. I have to please. So it was devastating when I. A B on my report card. And this was at 13. I remember just, that's it. Like, I'm dead. I'm going to be grounded, and I'm stupid. And so I fought so hard. I couldn't believe I got a B. How could I get a B? I fought so hard. You can't do extra credit. You're too stupid to earn it for real. Doesn't count if you do extra credit. So, you know, I went to my teacher and I'm just pouring my heart, what can I do? And he was like, there's no way you're not getting an A this time around. We have one test. You don't get bad grades in here. And so he reassured me. Report cards came out. I got the A. And so I took that report card and I was ready. And I remember standing handed it to him and just stared at his face because I was waiting for the facial expression to soften and smile, that expression of approval of, good job, I'm proud of you, you did it. And instead, what I saw was this disgusted, like, evil expression come across his face. And I froze because then I knew what was coming. And it was, you're so fucking stupid. This doesn't even count. This is barely an A. It doesn't count as an A. You can't, you know. And then there was the abuse. And as soon as he started with it, I went. And it was like my soul sort of stepped out of my body for a moment and just looked at both of us, and I had the deepest, most freeing realization. Oh, my God, this has nothing to do with me. He's running his programs. See, how people show up in the world are not personal. Even when that's your own parents, it has nothing to do with you. Those are the programs they're running. They were implanted, created. They stem from childhood. And we reenact our childhoods without realizing and having the slightest clue how over and over and over again. That's that generational thing. Over and generation to generation, we pass this stuff down. And when I had that, that was my first shift into awakening. I had that moment. This has nothing to do with me. It isn't personal. I never gave two shits after that moment, the rest of my childhood, what he thought of me. No matter how abusive, no matter how psychotic, no matter how horrific it was that night at home, it wasn't personal. It had nothing to do with me. And I was free.

My heart goes out to everyone and thank you for sharing, Rachel, because, like, you know, sexual abuse, physical abuse, especially during the lockdowns, if you look at the research, I mean, it's just. It's utterly heartbreaking what we're seeing. And these. This concept of programs, it's almost like when you're talking, I saw like this ticker tape, and it was like generational pain, the gift that keeps on giving and giving and giving and give. But it's like you and I have talked about. It's Alan Watts, my mentor, who's deceased, one of my most powerful mentors. And he said it's all wretch and no vomit. Everyone passes on their way of being to their children, who pass it on to their children, who pass it onto their child. Everybody goes, but no one ever throws it up. We are here. You are almost ringing the. The dinner bell of our soul's creation for us to finally throw all this stuff up. We forgot to throw all this stuff up. I am officially sounding the alarm with you. If you're watching this, if this resonates with you, immediately share this, wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching, because we're going to get even deeper into this understanding of programs. So when I run a program, I have a trigger, and the trigger is just laying there dormant. Is it really about deleting the programs, or is it about recognizing the trigger? Or is it both? Which one's more important to focus on when you start this journey?

So the first phase of the fear transformation method, the first phase of this method is increasing an acute level of self awareness. Okay. That's why when I teach this, it's even breaking down your triggers to understand. Is it a tone of voice? Is it a person that triggered you? Is it a geographic location? I mean, we really dissect these things because that's going to lead you to the core wound. And only when you're led to the core, what I call the anchor, there's a creation point of why you're triggered by this thing. There was a creation point of that program. So we need to get down to the root, okay? And if you aren't willing to see how you are actually showing up versus how we like to think we're showing up in life, in our relationships, you're not going to heal anything. That's why talk therapy doesn't Work, it doesn't heal. That's why learning things like loving, communication, or let me communicate with my partner better by saying, okay, how I feel is. You're not healing. Shit. Sorry, I hate to burst your bubble, but you're not. The majority of the people who come to me that I accept as clients are ones who have already been to therapy and coaches because then they're more likely ready to do the real deep work. Prior to that, it's like, no, sorry. Have you ever been to a therapist? It is very hard for me to accept as a client. And the reason is because you're not. I've learned 23 years of experience now, you're not going to do the real work. What I call the real work. You're going to want some quick fix. You're going to want some. Oh, what are the phrases I can say to my partner that's nice and loving and will magically heal everything? Here's. Let me give you a news flash. Relationships are not here to make you happy. They're here to make you conscious. That is the purpose of them. You want to form a sacred relationship and have a union that is filled with unconditional love. You have to learn how to unconditionally love yourself. And it's not by a lot of the nonsense that's taught out there. You can't do it at a superficial level. You have to learn what it means to unconditionally love your ugliest aspects of you with no judgment, no shame, nothing but full embracement of. I welcome you here. I see you. I honor you no matter what that program is. And until you can be comfortable enough with that, you'll never be able to offer healthy love to another human being.

The worksheets that you. You have everyone do, whether they want to be a coach at the university or whether they're your client. Everybody starts with that first step. And it's like, okay, I'm feeling the trigger and the trigger, and this is so powerful. The trigger is the invitation for exploration.

Yes.

The trigger isn't the trigger. It's not like we're trying to, like, get rid of the trigger.

No.

God, now that I've been doing this work, I'm like, fuck.

The trigger's the gift.

Yes, thank you for the trigger. Yes, thank you for the trigger. Because you're showing me where I'm not from.

Free, right?

Literally, exactly where I'm not free. So I've noticed in this work that, that, yes, I still have certain triggers. And, like, I probably got like 5060 triggers, right? Maybe, maybe more. But, but a lot of the triggers when it came to how other people were being in public, specifically the mask wearing thing, I mean, oh my God, that used to trigger me so much. And now it even happened yesterday where I like, I walked in and she just bar. The lady barks at me, do you have a mask?

Mask?

And I'm like, excuse me, how are you? I just. Kindness, right? Hey, I'm happy to wear a mask. It's fine. Because in the past I would have tried to like project my view onto her and tell her like, hey, don't you know, I've interviewed like 10 physicians on this podcast and they all talk about the micron size not working. So I just like less. There's less energy that I'm wasting on trying to prove that what I feel and think is what someone else should feel and think. And that right there, I have to share with you, has been so fucking life changing. And everyone, if you're feeling called to this work, like whatever is haunting you in your life, whatever continues to loop in your mind that triggers you over and over and over again, this is the invitation for exploration. So can you expound upon that?

Absolutely. Well, it's learning. So the work is that we learn to check in with myself. It's me, myself and I, because that's who I have control over. How do I want to show up in the world? And I mean legit show up in the world. How do I want to be actually not how I love to think of myself. How do I actually want to show up? And if that is somebody who is peaceful, who is loving, who is fierce when I need to be fierce, who is nurturing when that moment calls for that if I want to show up as a really divinely powerful, powerful being, then I am going to use something like, oh my God, you're wearing a mask. You say, oh my God, this is where they are. And there's no judgment. You're not wrong for being where you are. That's okay. And in this scenario, okay, I'll wear a mask. That's fine. Thank you. And in another scenario, I won't. And nobody's wrong and nobody's right. We have to get rid of duality. We have to get rid of opposing people, because those are programs of separation. And guess what? A global dark night of the soul is occurring on this planet. And the pandemic is part of that. And the main reason is to show us where we stand on opposite sides, pointing the finger in judgment and criticism. And Blame and self righteousness. Instead of facing each other and taking a step towards the middle, towards this loving balance of. Sometimes in life it might be very appropriate to wear a mask. And sometimes life might be just absolutely ridiculous to get that shit off your face. And both of those have truth in them. So when we stop opposing and stop fighting and stop creating duality, inferior, superior, right, wrong. We then begin to create a world of unity. Unity at one. One day, as we evolve through unity, will then start to evolve into oneness. We can't get there if we don't first unite.

I feel like as a society, as a human race, we're like 12, 13 years old. If you really look at where we've come from, maybe 11, 11, 12, 13, I don't know. You're a mystic, so you could probably tell. What age do you think we are?

We're barely out of preschool, all right?

Oh, so we're way younger.

We are very young.

Why do you think that?

It's because you see the way that we fight. First of all, no race of beings, if they were more spiritually mature, would own nuclear weapons. They wouldn't exist, period. End. There is your number one. Think about what a nuclear weapon is. That is a weapon of mass destruction. It destroys everything, all of the animals, nature. It destroys the planet. It destroys all beings on the planet if used. So guess what? We're in preschool. We love to think we're more evolved. No, we're not. There's no such thing as evolved beings. Destroying, murdering other living things. Look at what we do to animals. Look at what we do to nature. Look at what we do to Mother Earth. We're so deeply enmeshed in programs of separation. We're clueless as humans that we are nature. We're not separate. It's not nature's over there. And then we're human, we are nature. We are a part of the manifestation of nature. And we're clueless. We don't even know that we are. We in our ignorance and our spiritual immaturity don't have the slightest clue that dogs or animals or cats are our equals. They are not inferior just because they're right brain, heart centered. And they don't have left brains the way that we do. They think differently, they behave differently. So they're inferior to us. They don't think and talk the way we do. This is how immature and ignorant we are. Shit, we can't even look at other humans and see the equality that we are, that we are one. Whether we realize in our unique Differences. We are one. Oh, we are very immature spiritually. We have a long way to go.

Karmically, there is a debt and the debt plays out. So we experience this lack. And a lot of people feel lack is the lack. Karma's edge. What exactly is karma, in your opinion? Like, it's a very nuanced topic to have karma. So I think, I think about karma as something like, well, in a past life or in this life life, if I have put out energy. And I know you and I share similar views on Law of Attraction where most of it is bullshit, which please share that as well in this answer. But can you contrast these two? Can you contrast karma, right? Collective and personal and also Law of Attraction, Are we really attracting everything? And then how does that even relate to karma?

Yeah, yeah, good question. So, first of all, I usually take a breath for anybody listening who's a huge fan of Law of Attraction, because you're not. Not. I'm going to shatter the secret and you're probably not going to like me anymore. And that's okay. I have no attachment to that. But here's the truth. I usually tell people to take the Law of Attraction and throw it in the toilet, flush it. Just stop it already. Oh my God, for the love of Christ, stop with the goddamn Law of Attraction. And here's why. It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I don't even use the term Law of Attraction. If I ever refer to this universal law, I usually will say law of magnetism because there's such a cliche with Law of Attraction I won't even there anymore. Here's the deal. Very simply put, it doesn't mean the Law of Attraction doesn't exist. It means everybody thinks it's like 100% of how we move through life. And it is ridiculous. It is one piece of a thousand piece puzzle, period. End. It is one piece of a thousand piece puzzle. It's one teeny tiny little part of the universal laws, right, that create and we are governed by whether we know or not, understand or not. You know, real believe in them or not doesn't matter. It's one tiny particle of all the other things that come into play that make our unique experience as humans. And karma is another piece of the puzzle. It's just one other thing that we experience whether we realize it or not, know of it or not. And it's just everything that you put out is going to come back around. That's the simplest way. Usually we think of karma, of course, as being like really negative, like this is God. Something's bad happening. I did something bad. Like. Well, that's not necessarily true. You could be a very pure being. You could have healed your programs in your woundedness. You could be a very loving being. You don't have judgment, criticism. You're not opposing anybody just because they have different views. You might be a very, very wonderful, spiritual, heart centered being. Okay, let's say you've reached that level of consciousness and then the shit hits the fan for you. That's not karma, it's your. The universe is giving you the next thing that's going to take you deeper and take you higher. That's it. So it's not karma when you take you deeper.

I'm sorry to interrupt you. When you say take you deeper, what do you mean by that? Take you deeper to what?

Take you deeper into mastering yourself. Take you deeper into yourself through what conduit?

Through the conduit of contrast, through the conduit of pain.

Usually it could be pain. It's common that it can be pain. But through challenge. Through challenge. This unexpected thing that I didn't attract because the law of attraction. That's why I say stop with the law of attraction. Because you're going to be given what can take you to what you can grow through to take you to a higher level of consciousness. To go higher, you have to simultaneously go deeper, deeper into yourself. That's what mastering the self means. Is there anything left of an ego of me? Is there anything left of my shadow? Is there anything in there that could now be shattered, transformed, dissolved, transcended? Well, I wouldn't even know that part existed if this big huge challenge didn't come kick my ass today. Oh no, what am I going to do that allows me to grow? And so it can come in the form of pain. It can come in the form of, oh, you're an amazing level now. You know what? You have a little karmic debt. We're going to throw that in your face right now. Take that, because that's what's going to take you higher now deeper into yourself. You see, there's a lot of reasons and a lot of ways that we get challenged.

What creates the debt?

We are nothing but energy. Our thoughts are energy, our emotions are energy. Our behavioral actions, our behavioral programs. The way we show up, how we literally behave, the action we take, that's all energy too. We are nothing but energy. So when we put out a look at that person, let's go back to the mask, they're wearing a Fucking mask. When we do that and we're judging them, what program am I running? I'm running a program of judgment, first of all, probably, then criticism, too. They're very closely connected. I'm running a program of superiority, of I'm right, they're wrong. So I'm creating duality. Because I'm right, you're wrong. I'm creating superior, inferior. See, all the things I'm creating just by judging that person for fill in the blank, that's the energy that I'm putting out in the world. And because that's what I'm creating. This planet, this world, our worldly experience, you see, the collective. Nothing out there is a reflection of me. You just judged that person so harshly, you ran like 19 programs of negativity that are less than loving. And because of that, that shit's coming back. Whether it's. Whether it's a fender bender, it doesn't matter how it comes back. But that negative energy, that unloving is a better way to say it. So let me say it that way. That unloving energy that you just spewed out and vomited into the world, that is going to come back around and it's going to hit you. It's that simple.

So for you to be at a zero balance for the karmic debt, what is the price that has to be paid?

It's not a price. There's no price. This is the beauty. And this is where when we do what I always say is the real work, it organically, naturally happens. To have no karmic debt at all means to open your heart and love everything and love everyone.

Well, I want to. I want to lovingly challenge you because there is a price. I feel like I've been paying it in this world work, and it's paid off immensely. But I also know that there's still the. I guess the price that I feel like I'm paying. And I'm curious how you feel about this. The price that I feel like is paid is the pain of letting go of the things that my ego had an attachment to.

See me hide your ego?

That's right.

So if you call that a price, you can look at it from that perspective, and that is absolutely okay. I don't call that a price. I call that winning the lot lottery. I'm getting paid. You see, when I dissolve my e.

On the way to the bank, you might get a little dirty.

You're gonna get dirty. You're gonna get dirty on the way to the bank. You're Gonna. Yeah.

Wow.

Because it's a warrior's journey.

That's right.

It's not a passive journey. And it goes back to that, you know, spiritual immaturity of, like, we think everything's supposed to be easy, especially this country. We're so entitled. Like, we think if I just set my intention, I should have anything I want. How arrogant is and entitled are you? Wow. You're going to have a very painful awakening if you even choose to do the work. Most people like that, I will tell you, they start to do the real work and then they're like, duh, I won't do it. I'm going to go to the echo chamber to my tribe, and I'm going to have everybody love me and tell me what I want to hear so I feel better about myself and I'm going to stay really emotionally and spiritually small. And that's okay. It's okay. But that's the truth. You see it. That's the truth. And what we choose, and there's your free will choice coming back to bite you in the ass. A lot of times we think it's like, oh, what's. Why am I going through that? Because you refuse to grow up. That's why you're going through it. Why does it hurt so much? Because you refuse to grow up. You're refusing to do the real work.

The degree that anyone resists anything. And of course, like, Napoleon Hill made this phrase super powerful, but people don't know this. He got it from Wallace Wattles, who got it from someone else. And that is what we resist, persists. So it's like. It's a platitude.

Beautiful.

It's a platitude. We hear it and we're like, oh, yeah, what I resist persists because it's harder for me to push away something than to pull something in and let it run through me. But the karmic piece, because I want to close the loop on that before we go deeper. Karmic piece that I had asked you about. This is like the most fascinating thing because I do believe that there could be passover from past lives. Like maybe a father passed down a belief or a mother passed down a belief and he was a cheater, she was a cheater. So then that got literally imprinted to a child. When we talk about karma, are we really talking about pure karmic debt being paid, or are we talking about beliefs and programs that were passed down literally giving their children debt?

They are not one and the same. They are not the same. Thing, they are two separate things. We get imprinted by the way we are raised. That means our parents who ever raised you or ever had strong influences or spent a lot of time with you as a child, how they say things, what they say to you when you are at a certain age, developmentally and cognitive level, what they say goes in and it creates all of these programs, how they say it, how they treat you, what they do. It doesn't even mean they're treating you poorly. You could have really pretty wonderful parents, but just don't know any better than really conscious or enlightened beings. And so they have. They are not able, because of that, to understand how you, in that moment, in this present moment, how you're interpreting something in order for it to not turn into a negative program that's part of the human experience. So that's one thing. And that is not the same thing as cognitive. It was not the same thing as karma. Karma is just what I reap, I sow. Karma is what I give, I get. It always comes back to me. So if I'm loving and nonjudgmental, then that will come back to me, period. End in some way. And that could be as simple as I'm sending absolute unconditional love sitting with you here. And then I go out into my yard and like, birds surround me. Me. That's karma. That's the energy of these divine beings singing their beautiful bird songs. And I get to feel the energy and experience that and be so open to it, because I was able to give somebody unconditional love maybe when they were not the nicest, you know, or resisting or whatever it might be. You see it?

Yeah. It's beautiful because I think about the law of reciprocity and the law of attraction. And to me, they're operating on a very similar frequency because literally, whatever I put out there will come back to me in some way or another. And a lot of the concepts that we've explored, I know people can feel them because they're, like, sticking to their ribs Right now I want to go to the application, because in this work there's this fundamental question that you ask, and that's what programs am I running? The second question that's really powerful that I haven't heard. I heard Hawkins talk about this similar in power versus four force, and also in letting go the pathway of surrender. But I haven't heard it from anyone. Like I heard it from you. And that was, let's get out of your head and into your heart. Because thinking ruins everything. And when I heard that, I was just like. It was like, oh, yeah, okay, cool. And of course, I fought it because, you know, I came from a situation in my life where it was like, if I'm intellectually strong, then people can't fucking with me. If I'm smart and if I articulate myself, then people can't fuck with me. But the most vulnerable place for all of us is what Hawkins and what you talk about. And that is the space between the head and the heart.

Yes.

So please share this concept, because this is the crunch, this is the application of this work, and this is what people can do right after this podcast. They can start this process right now.

Get out of your head, drop into your heart. Thinking ruins everything. That's my saying. And I say that, and I mean it literally. This is where we run our mental programs. This is where we say that person is behaving a certain way. That must mean. And then we start to tell our crazy stories. So here, let me give a little secret. Everybody ready for the secret? No matter who you are on this planet, your mind is batshit crazy. It's crazy. You're right. Batshit crazy. I mean, batshit, like lit. Do you ever really pay attention to your mind and what it says? If you work from the Fiori transformation method and you start doing this work, you're going to see what your mind is actually saying about everything and everyone every moment of the day. Our minds are crazy. Our minds are never meant to be the CEO. Never. They're meant to be the employee. They make great employees. Terrible CEOs. So when we drop into our heart, and most people associate heart with pain, that's the problem. It's why they're so resistant, and that's just because they're disconnected from the emotional body. The emotional body doesn't mean pain. You cannot feel bliss that is in the core center of your heart. When you're not anchored into your heart, you will never experience what actual joy is. You'll experience happiness. It's superficial. It's very fleeting. You will not ever have a clue and be able to experience what joy actually is, let alone bliss. When you're not anchored into your heart, you're denying yourself from the very gifts we're here to receive while we move through this human experience. When you learn what it really means to drop into the heart, that's your source of power. Open your heart. Instead of have it closed to everything, that's quote unquote negative. Open your heart. Command your heart to open, anchor in and Learn what it means to allow the power and the light that you are to grow and expand in the face of anything. That can only happen when you're connected to heart energy.

So I know the only way to really have mastery for my next question is to do it, to experientially do it. And that means the master masters of Self university dot com. So go there right now if you are called to this work, if it quote resonates with you.

Yeah.

But I do want to ask you, can you take us through a quick process of what that entails? You know, how do we. It's an intellectual question. Don't you love? I'm asking you, I'm asking you A heart based practice from an intellectual space. But it's true. I mean we're in it. We're in a physical body. We're halfway through half beast, half spirit. So we got to know how to do it here in the 3D. How do we do that? How do we. How do we go from head to heart and not be so woo woo and esoteric that we wind up in a circle wearing a big purple cape?

Yeah. Because this work is not that. Beautiful question. I love your question. It's a beautiful question. Because this work is not that. It's a. I'm going to first circle back to what I mentioned earlier. And that's the human spirit integration point. I take people into the human spirit integration point. You're never denying your humanness. There is very simple, simple, easy. Here's step one, here's step two. Here's your work for this week. Here's your workbook, here's your curriculum. It takes you step by step by step to do it. But simultaneously there are the teachings of. Here's how you apply it. Here's how you integrate it. Here's how you pay attention to. Oh, you got triggered. Okay, so now pay attention to your mental programs. What mental programs are running and you keep track of these things. What emotional programs, behavioral programs. Oh, now we get to see the truth of how we're really showing up in our relationship. Relationships. Which is, look at all the programs I'm running. That has nothing to do with your partner. It has everything to do with unhealed woundedness. And so as people learn step by step in a very simple strategic process. And there is a sequential order for the process. There is part of this that is very left brain work. But the left brain work, literally, this is what's so funny and ironic. It takes you from your head, do this, do this, do this. It's a simple practice, this, it slowly pulls people down, drops them down into their heart. Over time, organically. Why?

That's the key phrase, isn't it? Over time.

Over time. Yeah, over time. As long as you do your homework and as long as you apply and you really do it, there is no way to not succeed. That's the best, that's the beauty. That's the best part. There is no such thing that this doesn't work. You're a divine being. This is divinity at its core. There's no such thing. There is such thing as you not doing it. That's your free will choice coming into play that you don't want to do the work. You're letting your fear based programs get in the way. Your avoidance programs get in the way. Your 15 year old inner child shows up and takes over and throws a fit. Instead of seeing what the child needs to heal and how deeper you can go if you don't allow the child to run the show. See, there's so many people parts to this but you move through it in a sequence, one bite sized piece at a time. And as long as you take the bite and you chew it and you swallow it, guess what? You'll poop it out, it'll be gone, everybody. So that's it. Everybody poops.

And it's very. You make it sound so simple. You know, behind me you can't might not see it because I got a brand new camera because we're just amazing. I love doing this podcast with you. It's been so inspiring so far and so has this work been, but it hasn't always been easy. Easy. There was one concept you shared with me about the heart chakra versus the heart space. And I wasn't really sure if I was going to ask you this, but I think it does help people connect to what we're talking about, which is how do we get out of our head and into our heart. So we're very familiar with the chakras and the energy systems, right? All the way from the sacral, the root, all the way to our third eye and beyond. So what does it really mean to be in our heart space and can you use whatever language is a prayer appropriate to describe to us that the heart would actually hear?

Absolutely. So being in the heart space, I tend to use that term because not everybody is well versed in what their chakras are. And sometimes when you don't know what that means yet, it can be a little intimidating and then you kind of resist going down into the heart chakra. So heart chakra, heart, heart space actually mean the same thing in the way that I use it. Dropping into your heart chakra, the question is, is how do you know you're connected? And that's part of this work. So I'll ask people if you can do your best to connect. If they don't know how, that's okay. I take them through a breathing process and then they observe their body. And when they're able to observe, how does your body feel now? And it could be different for everyone. But just common answers will be, oh, my God, my whole body began to relax. I feel more calm. I feel this is where the science and the mysticism are integrated. When the second you're connected to heart chakra, you know, the invisible energy center that we can't see. Mystical truth. Right. When we connect to that energy, the heart energy, the. The brain immediately releases all the calming, happy chemicals naturally. So there's a physiological response to your body relaxing. You become calmer, you become more peaceful. And there could be several other, you know, adjectives that people will use to describe. I feel this, I feel that. So now you. How you. When you are connected to your heart center, how do you know that you're legitimately there? It's a very somatic experience. And so people now have a reference point when they do this work. Now when I say to you, drop into your heart space or your heart chakra. And now we're going to work with your programs that are like the ugly, gnarly programs we don't want anymore, we're going to work with your program in the heart space. Heart energy is transformational energy.

Yes.

And that's part of the healing process. Part of it.

And the other part is also being with a trusted guide. Because there can be a dark side to healing and spirituality where whether it's ayahuasca ceremony, which I've gotten my ass handed to me because I didn't, first of all, I didn't know. And secondly, I didn't follow my intuition, which is a beautiful lesson. Right. It's the debt that I was paying. But within that space, there's a second piece of it. And it's like, after you know how to go to your heart space, you then have to have the courage and really the vulnerability to be held by someone else, to be heard by someone else and be seen by someone else. I ran so many programs on you because I'm like, can I trust Rachel? Prove it to me. Rachel. What do you mean, Rachel, blah, blah, Blah. And at some point we just have to trust ourselves in order to be held, in order to be vulnerable. That is something that cannot be written in a book. You have to experientially go through it, you experience it.

Absolutely. So part of this work is guiding people very organically without even realizing it, through self actualization. Because one very important thing I want to say about this, we, we are not deeply trained enough in most cases as coaches and even as therapists to do this level of work. And so it is just so dangerous to constantly promote that we're doing transformational work. Part of doing inner child work is. I specialized in pediatrics, Emotional mental behavioral development through every age and stage of human being, period. The inner child work, what I've created and the programs I've created created are from that divine responsibility of you have to be educated enough, that's the human part, and trained enough, and then the spiritual part is awakened enough because you're, you're messing with people's psyche, their emotional well being. If you're not trained enough to do it, how dare you? That we're not responsible enough. We think that just because I went to therapy with my ex wife for three months, I now call myself a relationship coach. And that's a real person out there. Oh my God, no, you can't do that. That's not an integrity. So I have to say that first, when you do have somebody that is that highly trained, you can let yourself go. And what happens in the organic process of this, when you do this kind of work, the deeper you go, you no longer ever have to trust another human being to hold you, to support you, to see you, to validate you. You learn and step into your own power. Oh my God. This is the power. Power that I am. I am. This is the truth of who I am. And I'm dissolving all my programs that block me from experiencing my true self. And that's it. And it happens organically. When you're willing to get dirty and do the real work, that's when miracles happen. People need to stop praying for goddamn miracles when you have an earned them. Because miracles happen naturally all the time. When you're willing to go in, and that's what it takes. Spiritual work is, what's required is willingness and devotion. Willingness to do it and the devotion to never stopping. If you don't have that, you're not truly awakening devotion.

Okay, so there's so much there to unpack. I feel like every five minutes or so is another podcast and I think that's the real. When we talk about mastery, the greatest sign of mastery is when you're able to take these incredibly complex and nuanced subjects and break them down into something that people can actually take a bite of or digest.

Yes, yes.

And I know we're getting to the end of our conversation, which is like, we're just scratching the surface of your work. So we're going to give people an incredible place to go where they can interact with you. We're done. But before we get there, there is this part that we haven't explored, and that is really like the elephant in the room, the ego. And when it comes to the ego, there's so much improper information out there where it's like, well, the ego is the enemy. I think Ryan Holiday wrote a book. He's like, the ego is the enemy. I'm like, well, I kind of disagree. I don't know if it's the enemy. And I'm curious how you feel about this. Steven Pressfield calls it resistance. Right. And its sole job, its sole job is to keep things the same. Dr. Vernon Wolfe calls it hollow dynamics. What do you call it? And what does it really mean to have an energy or a thought form or a darkness that wants to keep shit the same? Like, what is that?

Yeah. So when we talk about ego, I refer to as ego, shadow self. Your mental programs that are less than loving, meaning the vibrational frequency of unconditional love. Everything, every energetic thing has its own frequency. So your mental programs that are less than love, your emotional, your behavioral programs, the inner child, wounds that are not yet healed, all vibrate at different frequencies. All of these things make up your ego. Your ego is your darkness, your shadow self, the part of you that keeps itself small, that doesn't realize what power actually means, means what heart centeredness actually means. And so it prevents us. It's our ugliest, darkest aspects of ourselves, but it is our best teacher. It's both. So you will not authentically awaken and raise your level of consciousness and truly move through transformational healing. When you don't move through darkness, there's no such thing. That's a truth. It doesn't exist. You don't awaken because you sit on a. A mountain and you pray or meditate for 30 years. That's not how you awaken. How you take that prayer, meditation, whatever it is that you're doing, to quote, unquote, awaken and put it in the face of adversity, put it in the face of someone who's trying to harm you. What do you do, how do you react? Then go to the DMV and see if you don't get triggered. That'll let you know how conscious you are. I'll let you know how conscious you are. And so, and so, if you can't put it practically, here's what's so interesting. I don't think a lot of people really get this when I say it, but I'm going to say it. I'm going to keep saying it until it sinks in. Mysticism, spirituality is actually being a realist. It is dissolving all the illusions of the ego. Ego doesn't like to live in reality. It likes to live in its own made up belief world. I think things should be this way because that's how I want them. Egos are selfish, but ego is our biggest teacher because we would not embrace an honor and offer selfless love, compassion if we didn't first feel what it felt like to be shit on, right? As one of my lessons, as childhood, in my childhood was, I didn't grow up like, oh, I want to help people. I wanted to be a vet. I wanted to work with animals, the universe. My soul had a different story for me, a different plan. But I didn't grow up like, oh, I would have saved people. It was, you know, I grew up seeing, of course I didn't have the words or the language at the time, but I grew up seeing how nasty ego was and how much pain I felt when people were so abusive to me. My vow was, I literally made a vow going off to college. There's no way I'm not fucked up from this. No way I have to be. I just assumed I was, just assumed I was. And I made a voice vow that I'm going to learn absolutely everything and I'm never going to stop. So that I don't repeat the programs I saw, but also the ones I'm not aware of. Because on the surface I was a college athlete, I was a good student, I had a ton of friends, you know what I'm saying? So like, on the surface, like I was great, but I was like, there's no way this didn't fuck me up. So I had that wisdom and I was willing to see and go into my own darkness. Your ego keeps you so in suffering, blaming everyone else and even a pandemic. Oh, I'm unhappy because of a pandemic. You're unhappy because you're unhealed and you've not yet awakened. That's why you're Unhappy. That's the truth. If you want to awaken, you have to go deep into that ugly truth and do the real work. That's what sets you free.

And with freedom comes adult responsibility, which is like the most confronting thing. Because in order to be a fully empowered, embodied adult, we have to know, as you say, how to mystically parent ourselves, the child parent. Because if we can't, and there's many ways, and I love your language, I love your verbiage, some of the concepts I think we have explored on the show. But this concept of mystical parenting is interesting because I can remember when I came back from that ceremony where I got my ass kicked, I went to a mentor and he basically. Not basically, basically, he very delicately and brought out all the parts of my young guy, my young dude, young Josh inside, that were angry, that were disappointed, that were energetically like almost cords, Rachel, like physical cords that were connected to every parent or person that I had been hurt by or that I tried to please and all these things. Consider it like a spiritual clean out. So in a way, it was a beautiful blessing. But in another way, I don't wish that on anyone because it was very traumatic. And I feel like if it was done, you know, to the. Maybe to the wrong person that might have had even more mental illness or any kind of schizophrenia in their family, or bipolar, it could have really caused traumatic damage.

Yes. What.

Why do you think that things happen? Do they always happen for a reason? And if so, is it the reason that we create or is it the reason that is divinely guided?

It's both. It's both. That's the answer, is that it's both. The reason this is happening is because, holy shit, I didn't heal myself enough. I'm running programs. I created this. I did manifest this. Okay, but there's also the other part where, oh, well, where the hell did this come from? Oh, universe, higher soul Jesus, could you give me a longer break? Like, I don't want to grow so much today, you know? So it's both. It's both.

So they're not. They are exclusive, but they're not. In certain ways, it seems like the prime duality.

It's. So this is one of those things that we could do a whole podcast on because it's. It's very, very complicated. The simplest way to understand it right now, with the time that we have left is just you are creating and reenacting your childhood over and over, period. That's the human part of you that learned the programs that you don't yet understand because we don't have these teachings out there yet. We don't have them, we don't grow up with it. So we don't understand. We're recreating and reenacting over and over and over. And this one program that you run might be recreated 1900 times in your life until you finally wake up to the program and transform the program program. You see, so that part is being reenacted over and over. You're recreating in say career, business or friendships or family relationships or your romantic recreating reenacting over and over. But you can't see how to connect the dots. That's the beauty of this work that I offer. And what we offer at Masters of Self University is we teach you how to connect the dots from surface layer programs, which are the obvious ones. What's going on in your life right now? This, that's a surface layer program. But there's always a new gnarly, nasty anchor core program that's creating all of this. That all this stuff you're experiencing on the surface level is being manifested and created from that core, from that anchor. That's part of this work. You learn how to move through and connect the dots. Now that you got the anchor, you heal that. All the programs that are attached to that are gone. All of them, they're gone. But nobody will go right to that anchor because they're too afraid. So they go through that step by step process. That's what I've learned. And why do the work the way that I offer the work? To make it easy, bite sized pieces so people can handle it one step at a time.

So weak people, strong people. I don't know if it's always 100% plan because there is this, this construct of duality and also free will, choice and, and karma. But you said to me something one day that really stuck to my soul. You said weak people don't heal.

They don't, we don't. Weak people don't heal. And I'm sure a lot of people judgment.

I don't, I don't feel you like oh, people don't heal. It's more like, hey, is it a universal truth?

That's a universal, that's a divine truth.

How do we heal? And then if so how do we become strong?

Absolutely. That's a divine truth. And there's never judgment. It just truth is true. That's a beauty. When you start to learn truth language. Not my truth, my truth, my truth, divine truth. When we start to Speak the language of universal truth and start to live from universal truth. That's the beauty of it is now you can start to truly heal because you're seeing things as they are, not as you think they are. You're seeing them as they are, not as you wish they would be. You're seeing them as they are and you're in surrender to the fact that you grew up this way because it was a beautiful gift. Oh my God, what I become because of that. Like you're in gratitude for it because you're learning how to speak from that level of divine truth, of universal truth. There's always a universal truth in every situation. It's seeing the truth and getting out of the littleness of the small me, my truth. And that universal truth is weak people don't heal. That means if you're not willing to do the hard work, if you're not willing to face your pain, if you're not willing to fall in love with yourself, you are not going to heal. Healing only happens in the presence of love. That is a universal truth. Weak people don't love, they hate. Weak people don't love, they judge. Weak people don't do the real work. They spiritually bypass and they pretend by what they post on social media that they're these holy beings. Go into the dark and the ugly and shine the light. That's a person who's going to heal. No matter what's in there, no matter how shame painful it is, no matter how scary it is, you're going to go into that pain and you're going to show yourself and the universe how powerful you are because you're going to do nothing but love what's there. That's what it means to shine your light in the face of darkness and for the light to win.

Life doesn't all of a sudden pause because it's time to heal. And quite frankly, sometimes I feel like, well, most of the time the universe will serve you. The situation that you can get the most healing from, when it might seem like the worst possible time. Yes, it might seem like the worst possible time for you to get your healing, but it's so powerful. You have an 83 year old client and some people might use the excuse of the program of oh, I'm too old or it's too late to heal, or you know, fill in the blank. There could be literally like at this point, you've probably seen thousands, tens of thousands of programs. But what is that, that about the human mind that makes us say, oh, that can't be done because I'm too old. I'm too this, I'm too that. And can you give an example of this, this 83 year old soul that, that you helped? Because I think that would really create a lot of clarity for people.

Sure. I mean it's just, it's literally just programs that are running. It's just what your mind is telling you. It doesn't mean it's true. My truth is that I'm 83 and I can't heal. I'm too old, it's too late for me. That's my truth. You say, well, I always, always tell people, take your my truth bullshit and throw it out the damn window. Like I'm sick of the my truth nonsense. It comes from ego. What is the truth? The Truth is at 83, if you choose to heal, you can. You just have to learn how that's true for everybody. No matter what your scenario is, you just have to learn what it actually means to heal and stop having some limited view on what that means. Right. So at 83, when you've, you've meditated for 40 years and you teach meditation classes and this woman, oh my God, she just vomp like a Dr. In and meditate and be in different realm. I mean she was amazing. But she came to me with panic attacks and panic disorder. How do you meditate for the first two hours of your day and then have panic attacks up to three times a day when things get a little stressful?

That's a great question.

Yeah, because of your. That's what she came with me. How is this possible? I'm so miserable and I don't want to die being in panic disorder. Is this possible to heal? And the beautiful thing about her was because she meditated for so long for half of her life. And this is where we learn. That's part of this work as well. And what we offer at Master Self University is the difference between supportive tools versus transformational healing methods. Most people use supportive tools and they've been taught. Unfortunately they're these deep transformational methods. No, they're not. They're supportive tools. Meditation is a supportive tool or you wouldn't have panic attacks. So what she learned very easily in this work and she was able to do it one week because she meditated that supportive tool. It's critical. Love meditation, by the way. I'm never saying supportive tools are bad or waste of time. Don't misinterpret. But because she used that for so many years, I guided her through the steps and I started to show her her programs. What programs are you running? And she was able to do it like this. Never had a panic attack again. Gone. And one week, because she was like, I meditate two hours every single day. I will do my homework. And when she was able to understand the teaching of have no expectation. That's ego. She understood it and instead, do the work just to do the work, just to do something new. Let everything else go. And again, she was already at a mastery level when it came to a certain area. She did it so fast. She never had a panic attack again, ever again. There was gonna. They were gone.

It's such a beautiful example. And to round out the show today, we are all searching for what I call the gathering phase in this phase of intelligence, in this phase of wellness that we find ourselves getting stuck in all the time. Rachel. And it's like, can I get the best book? Can I do the best course? Can I fill in the blank? Can I get all the things outside of myself that'll somehow allow me to bypass the application phase? And please, God, give me the embodiment which is essentially the first. Forgiveness and the freedom and the joy and the love. How would you define this? You know, this. This path that we're walking here on planet Earth, with all you've been through, all the clients that you've helped, you know me personally, like, it's a very revealing moment for me to share this openly on a show about receiving so much help from someone. So it's a really special moment, and it's a really special question. How do you define wellness? How do you do define living your life well from your heart?

It's first of all, going through a process. It's a process of wellness. It's a process, honestly, because it's learning that with that human spirit integration point, that we're both human and spirit, but we have four bodies. The spiritual body, the mental body, the emotional body, the physical body. And what do we need to do for each one of those bodies with our divine responsibility and love for each one? How do we clear out, clean, cleanse and. And step into our fullest potential in this lifetime? The most magnificent version of me in this lifetime means that I can move through life emotionally free. That when challenges come and it causes me grief and pain, think of a death of a loved one is always an easy example. You're going to feel grief and pain. Do you love yourself through it, though? And knowing what that actually means, what it actually means to love yourself through it and dropping in and doing the full embodiment of self love. When you're grieving, you know, that's wellness. Wellness is going through a little example of wellness is going through. And wholeness really is wellness. Let me say that because that's more accurate. To be whole is to be well. And when we step into wholeness and we do the real work and we dissolve our shadow self and we let go and heal all of our programs, all of our inner child wounds, we start to begin to walk. We're mastering the self and we start to walk on that path of mastery. That means we're starting to walk on the path of life. Wholeness. Wholeness is wellness. Denying that your spirit, that you have a spiritual self, that's not wholeness. You will never be well. Denying the human part of you and only going spiritual, woo woo, you're denying half of you. You're not whole when you do that. So you'll never be well. So wholeness is wellness is how I define it.

It's a beautiful definition. And people are feeling what I'm feeling and that is what do I do next? So what do they do next? Right, You've given them some great practices and share this podcast is the first start, honestly. Because you know if you want to be the change that you wish to see in the world, you have to do your work. There's no circumventing it. So take an act of generosity right now and click your phone and share this podcast or share it wherever you're listening. But where do people go for the first step? I mean where's the steps of the university? Where do they go to school to learn this?

Yeah, so long is this ain't taught in school? No, it's not. And it's.

None of this is taught in school.

It's not in school. And you know the, the Masters of Self University you can go to masters of self university.com masters of self university.com it is a mystical institution of higher learning. You can take certification programs to become a certified mystical life coach. That is an emotional mental master. We have certifications available that takes you through the very training we've been talking about at the details deepest level. And the beautiful part about the certification programs to be a certified mystical coach is you move through the deepest transformations yourself first and then you learn how to teach it and coach it to your clients, your future clients. Check out the certification programs that are offered on the website. Also at this Masters of Self University is workshops, classes, live classes that you can, you can pay for just one. Check it out, see what you like. You can go to courses, classes right now as a new thing that we've launched. Go check us out, see what we have available. Give it a try. Sign up for a course, Sign up for one class or one live workshop. Whatever feels good to you. Don't avoid it because you don't feel aligned with it. That might be a program of sabotage running. And be sure to check back in the future every couple of months because we will have more certifications and more programs offered as we hire more mystical professors to help teach you in this age of enlightenment. We're moving to the era of the new golden age of harmony. So this university brings the mysticism back into our educational systems that has been gone for so long and there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it. This is the first of its kind, by the way. So, oh, my God. Jump in now while it's new and so needed.

Like, I've always, always felt this way as we say goodbye. I've always felt like ever since I was put on planet Earth, I just could sense something wasn't right. And I knew that the reason it wasn't covered in school K through 12 and beyond is because to expose what's really happening behind the scenes would actually fundamentally break down the ivory towers of why it exists. And so I just want to thank you for bringing the real education that, that I've learned that, you know, I'm in my heart chakra right now. Like, it feels amazing because there's just real deep gratitude and I know that I'm in gratitude when I'm just wanting to give, when I don't want anything in return. So everybody, put down your essential oils. Put down the sage. Stop going to Tony Romans.

Yeah. My God.

Go to Masters of Self university dot com. Rachel, thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the teachings you've given me and the way you've shared. We're obviously to going to have you back on the show probably multiple times. So until I see you again, Rachel, until Rachel and I both see everyone again, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you, Sam.