Ryan Duey | Ice Baths: Cold Therapy For Weight Loss, Immunity, Metabolism & Mindset | Wellness Force

Cold plunging. For me, it's like the energy, like, I just come in there and I get this two to three minutes in there. My morning is accelerated. I'm clear, I'm concise. It's a fast track in meditation. So I could go sit for 10 to 20 minutes, which, you know, I encourage everyone do that as well. But two to three minutes in there is almost that same feeling of my mind coming out of there. It's like the apps are turned off.

Ryan, welcome to Wellness Force.

Amazing to be here.

Three months ago, I had my boy Nova, and we delayed this interview, but now it's perfect timing because I'll tell you, my level of sleep disturbance and all the things I'm going through as a new parent, the cold plunge has really made an impact, man. So I'm super stoked to talk about this. If people don't know you, if people don't know anything about you, where were you born? Where was your original city? Where do you.

Yeah, so I, I hail from Northern California. Grew up, spent in Sacramento, California, a little suburb town outside of there. Spent about 18 years, went through same house, have an older sister, parents lived there, and then went off on a journey for the next 12 years. And now, then that brought me back full circle to Sacramento now. So have multiple businesses in that area. Plunges, warehouses in Sacramento. So.

And you have a deep background in float centers, which I found float tanks in, like 2014, 2015. Capital Floats is your business. But I want to pull the E brake. I want to go way back because for. For those of you, like, just tuning in, if you haven't met Ryan, he's a wealth of information about all things. Contrast therapy, cold therapy. Thecoldplunge.com is what we're going to talk about today. But, man, in Thailand, you were on a motorcycle.

Correct.

And you had a pretty severe accident. And this was kind of like your. This was God's, like, gift to you to throw you into the wellness world and spirituality too. So, like, let's start there before we get into cold and the benefits of the health. You have a spiritual path. Like, you're a very spiritual man. So how did that impact of that motorcycle, literally the impact of the motorcycle accident, how did that really forge your entry into the world of wellness and spirituality? And I think plant medicine, too, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. All of it. It was a. I was in a different career. I loved my job. I worked in Major League Soccer. It was corporate world, but I loved it. I was passionate about it. And I was out on a trip with my brother and day before New year's Eve in 2013, had a head on collision. Don't even quite remember what happened. My buddy found me in the road there had to, you know, the whole thing speeded by me to the other island. In and out of consciousness. Emergency surgery two days later on my jaw and. But in that night it was, it was, I still call it the greatest gift of my life. I remember being going out of consciousness. So there was. For my friend witnessing this, it was probably a lot for him to see. But I grabbed his hand and I just looked at him and I said this is. I needed this. This was about a few hours after it happened. And he just looked at me like. And I still don't know why I said was just so innate in my body. I was so grateful. As I'm laying there bleeding out. It was just like I'm. I had gratitude, like I knew the journey ahead of me and that's when things just fast forward. I had like the synchronicity of it. I hadn't, I hadn't really committed to what I wanted to do in life. It was, I had passions and coming out of that, it was like, dude, you have, you want to go to the jungle. You, you know, this was ayahuasca had become this conversation in the world. It very, very. I didn't know anyone that had ever done it. I had just kind of heard it. So I always thought that was some foreign, some distant thing, great adventure, I'll do it some foreign later time in life. And I decided like no, I'm going. Didn't know, just got it, went booked my trick ticket down to the jungle. And I remember at that time the place that I was going to, Temple of the Way of the Light. There was no way to like send money to them. So I had to go to the bank and do this special wire. And I had also from the accident was dealing with some insurance that had taken place. And I ended up getting paid out for my insurance, like from my job later. But my check, this is months after I was going to pay for my trip down to Amazon. The check came in the night before for my insurance and it was within $100 of what I owed to go down to the jungle. And I literally took that insurance check, went to the bank, I cashed it and I said can you put it and send it to this Temple of the Way Light in Peru? And I remember ended up building a relationship with the bank guy. And he was like, where are you going? What are you Doing. And we started talking. But it was like moments like that that was so in flow. It was like the accident happened, then the payment happened. It was like I had the money to go do it. It was just step by step taking. And that caused me to want the mission to go open a float center and do that journey and start my entrepreneurial journey.

Did you get that download? I kind of hate that word download because all the spiritual peeps, they overuse it. But I will say it for you. When you went into the Amazon and you drank the medicine, is that when you started to receive the insights on floating?

That's so interesting.

How did that happen?

So I'd started floating started because I was going to the jungle. So I was like, I need to start prepping my mind and body to go inward. And I. Meditation was fairly new to me. So I started to float. I was living in San Francisco, and so after a few floats, I had a very clear. I call it a whisper, call it a download, whatever, a thought. But it was, oh, my God, I want to open a float center. And I didn't start floating to go open a float center. It was like this became my. It was clear, I'm so happy here. And it was. I remember something came into my head that was like, then go create it. Like, you can just spend your. You can create one of these and just spend your time here. So I thought going down to the jungle, I was going to come out and it was going to be, quit your job, go start a float center. And you know, I went down my first time in the jungle. I think it was seven ceremonies over a window of time.

That's a lot of ceremonies.

It was a lot. It was a. It was a lot. It blasted me open. There's so much that came from it. And I thought it was gonna be about this career thing, like, you're gonna quit your job and you're gonna go do this. It was so quick. And it was just the gentle message, like, that's already taken care of. We have other things to work on before you can go do that. And I remember just being at peace. I didn't even think about it again. I actually came home after, got a promotion in my job, which I feel was a huge part of me getting mentored. Even have the wherewithal in business and to set out and have the confidence to go do it. So it was actually the total opposite. It was like, that will happen. And it was just this faith time will. That will present itself and trust the things you need to Take care of before you can go step out and do that.

So you really had to have patience, man. I don't care if you're an entrepreneur, a parent, a business owner, an intrapreneur, just a human being. Like, we must cultivate patience and resilience, which later on we're going to talk about how the cold builds that, you know, not just through hormesis, but also emotional resilience. I think about you in the jungle, like, maybe I should open a float tank. But then you got back and there was this, like, hand of God, higher intelligence that said, be patient. So did you want to really do it right away? Were you feeling like, I have to open this, I have to do this, I have to get it done? How did you maintain the patience?

I still struggle with the term patience and what that means and how that, like, how that presents itself for me. It was. I was very clear it was going to happen, which was fun and exciting, but it was. I was focused on other things in life. But I do remember waking up a morning in July, and it just hit me, like, now you begin, like. And I don't. I can't say my life's been this in flow since that window, but it was a moment that it was like there was no forcing it and, like, waiting or patience. It was just, now you begin. And that was the. That was the path forward there. After opening the float center, I actually went through a really. That was one of. That was probably one of. It was the most challenging, one of the challenge. Most challenging personal experiences of my life to get that open. Floating was not normal at this time. This is back in 2014, 2015.

Yeah.

There was no places around. I remember writing checks to construction workers, and they were like, dude, this isn't gonna work. Like, I'm writing, ripping them fat checks, and they're like, you're paying him?

And they're like, hey, dude, this ain't gonna work.

Totally. It was like. It was.

That's awesome.

You know, I'm getting. I had to get investment money to come in to do this. And, you know, it's like, I'm selling them on this vision and this, like. And no, there's no place out there. You have to go to the basement in San Francisco of some facility at the time to float.

Yeah.

So why. Like, that floating wasn't normal. I went through that window. I opened up. It was almost like, oh. I could breathe. Like, oh, my. I accomplished this. And I so wanted the next thing to come. And it took five years till plunge Launched and plunged. And when plunge presented itself, it was like rapid pace, like, boom, we're going. But I struggled during that time of what do I. I want to be onto the. I should be doing more. What's the thing? I wanted to force it. And patience was really hard for me at that time. So you bringing that up is like a something I work on a lot. I want to be on the next thing. And sometimes that's stepping back and just accepting what is right now.

There's a guy I'm going to interview in the future, and he wrote a book called Driven, and it's about high performers and their emotional tendencies, their mental tendencies. His name is Doug. I'm blanking on his last name, but somebody's gonna like type it in right now. So it's about being driven in our personalities. And one thing that he talks about is there's like a healthy come from when it comes to driving forward and creating things and being entrepreneur. And then there's an unhealthy come from where people maybe don't feel enough self love or they don't feel adequate for life or whatever it is. Maybe they have capital T trauma, lowercase T trauma. Do you feel like your drive with the cold plunge comes from a healthy.

Come from at how it launched? Absolutely. It was. I mean, I did it with my brother Mike Garrett, my co founder. And it came from a moment in time of just external circumstances of being in California and our businesses getting shut down. And it's like he had just moved to Sacramento and him and I had done a nonprofit or a fundraiser for MAPS back in 2018 and National ORG. National fundraiser for. Through floating to raise money for the phase three trials that they were going through for MDMA assisted psychotherapy. So we had worked together and had this. We'd always like, okay, we want to. It was a patience thing again. We envisioned us actually going in on some project that mattered to us. But we want. And there was times where I was like, oh, let's do this, let's do that. But it was. This presented itself in the sense of like, holy shit, we are into this. This isn't a we. We have a special product. He had engineered something that was different. Like, we were like, this is the world. It fits right now the price point. We were able to cut the price in half to what was on the market. And it was like, dude, we. Our values and principles are so aligned. Let's go. Let's go have some fun and just figure this out together. And so that. That got me Excited. And then from the plunge space, it's like the thing that lights me up with it. And we were talking a little prior. Is it something anyone that does it? It's like, it's hard. So that is my mission, is that there is fruit at the end of doing a cold plunge. And cold plunge isn't the end all to be all. It's not the only thing we can do. But it's something hard and you get such a return on it. So to have that at scale, to get that out to the world and have people have this be more accessible whether you get one or it's at your local commercial facility, having that like cold has become, you know, it's, it's my teacher. It's become, I've built this incredible relationship with it and it's like, how do I get this out there to more people? And so it's been in our journey and our vision with it I think is we're clear on what we want. And it's also, I don't know, I'm sure you have it in business, like learning so much about myself along the way.

Yeah, like the, the pain teacher comes when you're in business either either when you're an entrepreneur or when you work inside of a company and you're empowered there too. I don't think everyone's meant to be an entrepreneur. Absolutely. Entrepreneurship has been glamorized. But to really pay the price and be in harmony with the pain teacher, to be an entrepreneur takes an incredible amount of resilience and patience and faith and trust and discipline. I mean, fill in the blank, man. There could be a whole seminar on like how you could prepare yourself to be an entrepreneur. And I loved when you said it's hard, the cold, the cold therapy. Because when in our life has any kind of therapy ever been easy? If therapy is easy, it's probably not good therapy. I'm sorry. Like, I know people might hate on me for that, but it's true. I've never. Whether it's emotional intelligence or physical therapy, I've done the mark divine 20x where we do like a 14 hour overnight crucible and we do Murph soaking wet, we're doing ice baths. I mean, the amount of togetherness that suffering and that discomfort forges, it's unsurpassed. That's why people that are in wars, and I'm not here to glamorize war, but people that are in wars, like, they become so bonded together because when we suffer together or when we suffer with ourself there's something really beautiful that comes from that, you know, have you. Have you seen this to be true for yourself? Because I think about 2015, 2016, you got sick, like, five times in six months.

Yep.

So you were suffering and you're like, I'm a healthy guy. I don't know what's going on here. And. And you found Wim Hof.

Yep.

So tell us about that, because that was like a big needle mover for you to create the cold plunge.

It was massive. It was so. It was actually. I learned of whim in 2015, was so inspired by the message, but didn't quite get the message, if that makes sense. This man inspired me. He pioneered it. I was so. I remember crying, watching the documentary two nights in a row. But it wasn't till 2018 that I had to get sick so many times that my health coach was like, hey, let's start bringing in whims breathing into your morning practice. And I was getting into lakes and rivers and doing that, but it wasn't on, like, a daily basis. It was seasonal, you know, one to two times a week, when I can get out there, but incorporating whims breathing into my morning. Within one month, I mean, I had. Like you said, it was six colds over six months. It was. It was a lot. I was just getting sick. Getting sick. Getting sick.

Do you feel like it was because you were also driving and, like, pushing the business forward? Like, why did you get sick so much?

I've thought about that a lot, and I don't know. There was clearly some imbalance and some disharmony, energetic, whatever it is, like. And the beauty of it is, like, I don't think I'll ever really know why, but I just did one thing to change it, and I'd not really. It stopped it. And so I've kind of just let that be and being like, I'll never know why, but I know this tool fixed that issue. And so that I'm totally at peace with it. But I think it was. Yeah, there was stress, major stress in my life. I think I had finally exhaled at that moment. I had finally got the business at a spot. Capital floats. It was solid, it was secure. I think I could breathe. And my body kind of finally was like. And then just had its release of the sickness. And there was. I had to go from there. I actually went more onto. I mean, it was. It's comical to say, but opening a float center. I was very personally unhealthy. Like, I had lost my personal practices and it was back into like, oh, we got to get you back in, in shape.

That's where I'm at right now. I'm there right now with my son and moving out from California to Austin. Like, we all can relate to this. I'm not on the top of the mountain. I mean, I've been in the game for a long time like you. But the more we push and the more we try to serve, the more we have to recalibrate ourselves to be healthy, to be in integrity with our health and ourselves.

What are some of the things you're doing right now to get back to, like, where you want to be?

Solid sleep as much as you can with a newborn.

How do you do that? Because I'm now.

Well, we co sleep. So he sleeps next to Carrie, my partner.

Yeah.

And so I put on eye mask and headphones and binaural beats. And so that drops me. And plus I use cbd and I have a bunch of supplement. You should see our. I'll show you our pantry after the interview. I mean, it's like floor to ceiling bottles of supplements. But I love cbd. I love magnesium. I take trace minerals, like lots of things. But for me, it's breath work. Like, my three core pillars are hot and cold sauna and the cold plunge supplementation to help my enteric nervous system calm down, my central nervous system calm down. And then also doing breathwork like the 4, 7, 8 breathing that I learned from Dr. Andrew Wheal. So all these tools that are. I mean, the supplements cost money, products cost money, but you can do monthly payments for all these things. Like, people are going out and drinking and doing very unhealthy things that cost 200, 300, 400 bucks in a weekend. It's like, hello, ring the fucking bell. You can do something healthy for yourself and it costs less and you get so much more of a benefit. So anyways, long roundabout. The reason I'm telling you this is because I can see how so many people might be a little uneasy about starting with the cold or starting with the heat or any of these things. How do you get people in the right understanding of the benefits of this? Like, maybe we can just pour right in to the benefits. Obviously there's hormesis, there's lots of brown fat that comes up that's actually energy burning. But if people don't know anything about the cold plunge, you know, just walk them through the beginning benefits of, of what actually happens when you do the cold.

Yeah. So I think we're still learning, like in the sense of, from a. Let me take a step back. What it reminds me of is when I started floating, I had the benefits that I saw for myself and I would have people start to come into the facility, I'd be working the desk and they come out and say these benefits or these, they're starting to float more consistently. I'm noticing this in my life. I'm like where. I didn't even, that didn't even fathom to me. Like I, I hadn't even tasted that. So it's, to me it's like you're getting your body into a natural state and then from there it's going to start responding in very unique ways. It reminds me of CBD in a way. CBD is this intelligence that goes in and it's going to work very differently on you than it does on me. Yeah, it has its own intelligence to find the places that are imbalanced and cold plunging. For me the benefits are just an inflammation standpoint. You get in there post workout recovery, that, that is absolutely there. And then for me it's like the energy, like I just come in there and I get this two to three minutes in there. My morning is accelerated. I'm clear, I'm concise, I have a, it's a fast track in meditation. So I could go sit for 10 to 20 minutes, which you know, I encourage everyone do that as well. But two to three minutes in there is almost that same feeling of my mind coming out of there. It's like, like the apps are turned off. Like I, I'm clear on what I want to go do. And it just like you talked about, you just feel fucking great.

You just feel great. Which, like we want to talk to the people that are science minded, you know, the people that need PubMed studies, which we'll link here in a few. And also we want to talk to the spiritual people. Like I would say the majority of this movement of our community, it's people that, they want to feel something before they study or read something. And that's most people, Most people want to get like an immediate gratification, like how do I feel good in the next five minutes or so. That's why the majority of companies that we partner with, it's like their product has to make people feel good in 15 minutes or less. Otherwise it can be really challenging for the limbic system to be like, well what novelty am I getting? You know, like how am I actually winning by using this? And, and so anyways when I do it, when I do the cold. I go for three minutes. I go at 39 degrees. Cause like, that's just how I roll. I know you go at 46 for your protocol. When you go in there, what's actually happening inside of the body? Obviously the blood is shunting to the internal organs. So cold therapy. A lot of PubMed studies talk about increased movement of not just your organs, but also your vascularity and your blood flow. So it's really good for circulation. But I actually do it after the sauna. So I go from all the blood to my skin and then I go in the cold and it's like all the blood to my organs. But from your perspective, I mean, this is your world, you know. So share with us what's really going on there.

I really think we're actually. It's like the best workout for your nervous system. And it's, you know, it's like, it's fundamental in working out. We work out to tear our muscles down and they build back stronger.

Yeah.

So by getting in the plunge, it's like you're doing everything outside of your nor like what is commonplace. Like the adrenaline is increasing, your mind is screaming, this is not safe. Like you will have every hypothermia. All the stories come up while you're in there. And you literally get the opportunity to override not just the story. So new neural pathways, but your body. You get to go from a sympathetic state. Fight or flight. Get me out of here. To know I am in control of this. And I control my breasts. Get it down to five to eight breaths per minute. And now you are literally telling your. You have changed your whole body system. Think about what that could mean in everything that we do in life, that you are actually in control. That to me is the. Yes, there is other. Like you talked about the brown fat and the metabolism increase and these things that are happening to me. The biggest thing is this, that we get to put our. We are in control through our breath, like you talked about. That is the anchor, that is the mechanism that we get there. Yeah, but to rewrite our whole body system by doing something hard.

This is what science calls hormesis or the hormetic effect, but we just call it doing hard shit. Which either one's cool, right? Spiritual or scientific people. I really like doing hard things because I just have this awareness and I'm curious how you feel about this. In our world, we have become really, really soft. And not just soft physically, but soft emotionally. We live our lives on tablets and computers and phones and we get food Dropped off to our house. I mean, you can literally live your life never going outside of your door, never putting your bare feet on the ground, never getting into cold water, never even being in the sun. And you can, quote, survive, but that's the fucking thing. You're surviving. You're not actually living. That's not a life. Our ancestors gifted us this world and we owe them that honor because they did really hard shit all the time. And so by us living this life where we're in super duper comfort all the time, I feel like it's a disservice. It's really not honoring where we came from.

I think it's whether it's good or bad or outside of that paradigm. It's like, it's the natural gravity of where we're going. It's pulling us towards that. And I am just like anyone else. I love my comforts.

Me too.

And it's what is. And with that, to your point. Yes. The cold plunge is basically like a bumper that I have to put into place. That I have. I know there's the polarity of doing uncomfortable stuff. If I don't put those things into place, I will go to the comfort life and it will naturally pull me there. But having, you know, the cold plunge is right there, having the sauna, having maybe a workout partner, you know, whatever the things are that make you feel uncomfortable, like putting those into place in life, that it's just like I'm never going to get too far outside of my zone of just getting overly comfortable. And the cold plunge to me is the. Yeah, it's my company and I do it. But it's like, this is. This is why I do it. It's like it's at my house and it's the first thing I do every morning. I get this win out of the gate every morning. It's. I have the same story. I don't want to get in. It's cold, it's. Oh, it's getting cold again. I'm running out of time. I got. I don't have time for like, whatever the story is.

Yeah.

And I still follow through and I do it and I do my three, three to four minute plunge.

Yes.

And it's, you know, my day's a win now. I did the hard thing. And so from there, I'm not really going to get pulled into the easy stuff, the comfortable stuff. But I have set myself up and it's a rinse and repeat daily for me.

I like these rinse, repeat, because that's one Thing about the cold plunge, that's different. Let's talk a little bit more about the benefits and then we'll go into the specificity because most people know you can like buy a freezer, try to seal it, you can get horse tanks with ice. Like we'll go into that. But the big thing for me is actually metabolism. So weight loss and metabolism and immunity. That is like on everyone's mind right now.

Totally.

We defend ourselves against this invisible enemy, blah, blah, blah, which I don't buy into the narrative. I think it's our sovereignty of health and our health freedom that allows us to defend ourselves against anything. And I don't think anyone should put their finger on my chest and tell me what I should be doing with my body. Anybody else can do what they want to do and I'm not here to judge. If you want to wear a diaper on your face, if you want to stick experiments in your body, go for it. I don't judge you, I really don't. But do not for one second tell me that I have to do what you want to do so that you feel safe. It's a global codependency and I don't fucking buy it. But sorry for my riff there. But like, you know, when we look at building immunity, talk about some of the science for immunity, metabolism and weight loss. Because the brown fat aspect is real. Just let's start there and then I'll reference a PubMed study that I found really fascinating.

Yeah, so the metabolism one. We've worked with Dr. Andrew Huberman on this. He's put out some information on metabolism and cold therapy for it and there's different mechanisms to it. But it's, you know, the whole point is getting your core body temperature down. Once you get your core body temperature down and it's different for everyone that you, you know, you can, there's studies that are show 60 degrees and under can get you there. You might need to spend a little more time.

Really? Only 60?

Yeah, there are studies out there at 60, it's more and it's a time thing and everyone's different, you know, everyone has different layer. Like everyone's body's different. So there's a self discovery process that takes place here. But the whole point is getting that core body temperature down. Huberman talks about it from a shiver standpoint. Like you almost want to induce a shiver in your body so that we have those protocols on our website too. But that is by getting, yeah, getting the temperature down. And for me it's like 46 degrees at three to four minutes, that induces to me, it takes me a while to cool back. If it's going to take you a little while to cool your body back up, you've gotten into a spot. Your metabolism's now working great. So that's something you want to check in with. If you get out and you're immediately hot or you're just not quite there, you might not be hitting the metabolism side. You're getting other benefits as well. But if it's going to take a while to get the blood flowing again, that's a good sign.

Yeah, the Swiss go in like ice cold. They go in like 32 degree water. They're dumping into ice. So what I heard from you and tell me if I'm wrong, I heard from you that the shiver is actually the sign of inducing the metabolism to improve.

It's a sign. I think it's everyone. I don't think it's the only thing for the metabolism, but it's definitely a signal that your metabolism's there. And that's a fascinating one. You know, Huberman has a lot of interesting stuff out there.

Is he, is he the same in person that he is off camera? I always wonder this.

He is, man, that's.

That's good to hear.

He's a, he is such a friendly, win win guy. You know, he's a connect. Oh, let me connect you with this person. Like just the thing that's coolest about quick with Andrew that I'm so excited with him, is he open sources, everything okay. It's like, it's not like my lab did this and I get to keep this information. It's like he literally was like, I have these protocols. I've been studying this. Let me give them to you guys and I'll send everyone to your website. Like, just did that, like, just because he's like, cool. This looks like, like it's another way for other people to learn about it and then they can understand plunging and grow this whole ecosystem like that. He does things like that.

He sounds generous.

Very generous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's great to have friends like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. There's a mindset there that I'm feeling and it's.

He.

Does he do a lot of hot and cold contrast himself?

Yep. He has, he has his sauna, he has his plunge. He's. He's into it. And that's, that's part of it too. I think for a metabolism standpoint, a protocol that really works is circuits going in for, you know, getting the temperature Down. And that varies for each person. Whether it's 39, 45, it could even be 50 for some people.

Does it really matter if it's below 39? Does it truly matter anymore?

I don't think we've seen anything.

As long as you're getting the shiver.

Yeah, as long as you're get. And it's. It's a timepiece too. Like, maybe 39 works and you need to start spending two more minutes in there. To me, it's. It's the clearest metaphor that I've seen is like working out. It's like your muscles, you're not going to do the same workout every day because you're just getting stronger. So you got to adjust it. And so it might even be you take a few days off. Like, not like I've. I just took a week and a half off. And that was for another reason. I was traveling and whatnot. But coming back, it was so much harder. Like, I actually had to get back into. My body was like, whoa, here. It's going to adjust. Our bodies are so resilient, so they're going to adjust to the cold. So if you're doing 39 every day in the same process, it might be helpful to be like, okay, I'm going to switch the process up or I'm going to go for get back in after I go. Or try it at a different time during the day. Or maybe add a few minutes onto your circuit where you get to the spot of like, no, this. Your mind's going to say, this is our time. We get out. And it's like, nope, we're going to go an extra two minutes here. And that's going to push the body and have new responses from there.

The metabolism quotient is clear, like just from what you mentioned with Huberman's work and the shivering. But also, and I found this on many studies on PubMed. Also it's on Wim Hofsight. I'm sure Huberman's researched this Brown fat. Brown fat is actually grown by cold thermogenesis. You can't really get brown fat another way. And I've heard Dr. Rhonda Patrick talk about this too. You have to actually put yourself in the cold. That's why people that are living in really cold climates, like Alaskans or people that live in, like Siberia, there's been studies where people have measured them and they have brown fat. Brown fat. For people that don't know, it actually burns energy for you. So regular lipos tissue, it stores energy. But this brown fat's amazing.

It burns. It burns your fat.

Actually tell us about this brown fat aspect because you can't get it without cold.

And I'm not the greatest expert in some of the studies. Like I'm, I read them, I put them out there. We have them like we link them through our site and everything. But I, to be frank. And this is how I've been with floating and everything.

Yeah.

I direct people to the people that can articulate this so much better than I can.

Okay.

I, I know what it does for me. I don't. I get excited on the studies. It's even something we're looking to do with plunge to actually fund some studies for this. So it's important. Yes. And I would say that's not my expertise in saying that's honest.

You could have just pulled something out of your ass and been like, well, you know, there's been studies that say brown fat is great for women. But you didn't. I love that.

I would send you. Right.

Thank you for your honesty.

You're welcome. And I, it's. This is not. I would send. Go to Rhonda Patrick on our Instagram page. She has a 10 minute talk that we interviewed her when she, when we were getting her plunge. She talks exactly about this and I will use words that I don't quite fully understand and we'll give you guys.

As many resources as possible. So click below this video. You can access all the show notes and I want to shift gears because the metabolism, the brown fat. But I have two studies in prep for our conversation. Two studies I found on PubMed and I just did a normal query. I think I put in like cold therapy benefits. That was it. And pubmed is like I think pubmed is a really good third party validation source where you can go on there, you can get information and you can most likely trust it. Because what I do is I also see who stunned, who funded the study and whoever funds the study. They also have to be third party too. Like they can't have a financial interest. First one was 2021 hydrothermotherapy in prevention and treatment of mild to moderate cases of COVID 19. This is what they found. The heat follow by cold therapy significantly increased the number of white blood cells, granulocytes, lymphocytes and monocytes. The researchers concluded that the brief cold following the heat treatment was effective in increasing the white blood cell count. So this is like immunity for your body that you can get without taking a pill. You can get it from nature herself. Have you, have you studied this yourself? Have you? I mean, obviously that's what happened with you when you repaired yourself from getting sick five times and in six months. But personally, anecdotally and then scientifically, what are your thoughts on that?

I think. Well, one of the things I was, I mean, before this interview, I had one of our workers send me a text. We had a recent customer. I'm pulling up my phone to look at it, and he was a Covid long hauler, which basically means long term symptoms post Covid. They're tried a lot of different studies on him. He received the plunge, he kind of got turned on. Maybe cold therapy. I don't know if he saw the PubMed. You know, he was like, maybe cold therapy is an option for me. Sure. You know, he was nine out of nine on his whoop scores. Nine out of nine in severely bad categories within.

Says.

Within a week of having the plunge, he sent us all his data sets and he had basically gone from severely bad to in the green. So if you follow whoop, that basically means you're in a good to above average categories. And he said this for the first time, my autotonic nervous system is under control. Before nine out of nine metrics were not okay, severely bad. He said the symptoms that I had was high blood pressure, small fiber neuropathy, major anxiety, PTSD and shortness of breath. He responded to us, you cannot change these numbers with any medication. On the planx, he listed a number of medications he's tried. Nothing has done anything that I'm receiving right now. And that's just within a week of cold plunging.

Wow. I mean, let that land for a moment because that's a true story from a true human being. And there doesn't need to be any extra storytelling on that. I mean, you just read the note he sent you. So I think about for myself when I'm doing cold on a regular basis, I'm closing my mouth and I'm doing a strong inhale through my nose. And that'll tell me right away if I have a histamine response, if I'm plugged up in my sinuses. I've had a lot of sinus issues in my life. I'm actually about to do the Kaufman protocol, which is an antifungal diet. So I'm excited to see how that goes because I just continue to have sinus issues. And for people that don't know when your sinuses are plugged, it can literally make your cortisol elevate, it can make your stress Response deteriorate. It's really, really bad for your overall health. And also too, it's right here, it's in your face. So the barometer for me is when I go into the cold plunge and I do the three minutes, if I notice that I can't do a full inhale, belly breath through my nose right now I feel really good. But that's an immediate signal for me that I'm either not sleeping enough, I need to look at my diet. So I feel like the cold and the breath together can be a massive barometer for people for behavior modifications.

I love that.

Have you, have you felt this? Have you talked about this in your community? How is this? How has it shown up?

I haven't and I think that's a beautiful. Like what I'm hearing is that you're in a highly stressed position. You can get more data response of how your body's responding. And the getting yourself in the cold is a highly stressful environment in that moment.

Our body's always talking to us, but then we ignore it.

Yep. Yeah.

Because we want to create or whatever, whatever story we tell, but the body's still speaking that.

No, I love that. I'm going to, I'm going to bring that into my practice now and kind of like seeing where shortness of breath in certain spots or. One thing I do like to do is a body scan in the body so it's not so much through the breath process, but really where I'm naturally going to sub unconsciously tense certain spots of my body in the cold. So then it's like laying in and it's. For me, it's a lot in my hips for, you know, variety of reasons. And so it's like, okay, how do I really soften that spot in the cold plunge? So to me it tells me where my body that I might not even realize is off physically. And so that I kind of do it more from a body scan standpoint.

That reminds me of Vipassana. Have you ever done a Vipassana or like a long. So for Vipassana you do 10 days of meditation.

So my co founder's there right now.

No way.

Yeah.

All right, let's send this person.

Love Mike.

What's their name?

Mike.

All right, Mike, just breathe because you get triggered. Or at least I did. I mean, holy shit. Meditating for 10 days, whatever you've been ignoring, it's coming up. Like it's coming up. So when I was there, I started to get these pains in my body. But Goenka, who's the founder of this. He has this test that you do and you have a triangle you visualize around your nose. And all you do, Ryan, is you literally just focus on your breathing and you scan your body. And you continue to scan your body. You keep asking your body, like, what are you here to teach me? What's the pain here to teach me? And I had a ton of pain in my upper back and in my shoulders. And it's because I found out the emotional intelligence of this. I was allowing the weight of what I wanted to created to actually make me sick. So my upper back and my traps and my thoracic spine were being loaded. And so for the rest of the time at Vipassana, I was like pulling my shoulders back, focused on not flaring my ribs, just sitting in a comfortable position and like retraining myself to not be burdened by my dreams. Because our dreams can burden us if we're not careful. And that's what I feel like.

It goes to that driven part you were talking about. It becomes the unhealthy side, becomes the unhealthy. An expectation or some thing that's outside of purpose.

Yeah. So I thought about that when you mentioned the scanning in the tank. Because if people. Everybody's got three minutes. If you don't have three minutes, you need to really inspect your life. So if you have three minutes in the morning to go sit in the tank, check your sinus for histamine response, check your body for any kind of pain that your body is trying to tell you. I mean, what. It's a spiritual practice. So how do you talk about the spirituality component of not just float tanks, but cold. There's a bridge between them.

Yeah. I think to me there's like a balance to the whole thing. Like I said, I love science that's out there, but to me, it just validates. I tend to be someone that's doing something before maybe there's even a study. I'll kind of put myself out there. So I love the science. That doesn't validate me, but it validates maybe to others that they would be interested in trying this. So I do appreciate science. Like I. It is important. And there's other things that I follow in that category. But the spirituality side is. I mean, I guess the loaded question is, what's spirituality like? You know, what is that? And to me it's like, you know, peace and joy and acceptance and like that of what is like that. That this whole thing is a spiritual experience. It's so bizarre that we're even here in a life. And I like that there's so many unknowns that like from a, you know, existential conversation there. But cold plunging is. It brings out those ways that I can't articulate the magic in life. Like these sensations and floating very similar where it's. It's like I don't. Nothing's really. There's no substance here. Yes, I put my body into a unique space, but I'm just get tapped in it Just the transition from one moment to the next becomes so heightened. And I just think that's so amazing in this life to have like these perspective shifts like that. Like that is like there's so many things happening outside of my awareness. And then to be able to switch my awareness in like a moment's time and see something differently like that to me is magic. And floating. And floating started off like this. We were talking a little prior. But floating is, you know, that world that started from there was such. This magical. You know, you had the Perrys and you had, you know, Lee and Glenn Perry that started it. And it was from this space of almost a spiritual exploration. John Lilly, all his work.

Lilly was deep into Ketamine.

Lilly very deep into Ketamine. That wasn't beginning. He was, you know, that guy's a brilliant individual and he was exploring realms and through many different avenues. And float tank was its own realm that he was doing. And then he incorporated ketamine towards the end of his lifetime and. But you know, they. It was very much this spiritual exploration of like kind of the unquantified. Like we can't really state what these things are. So floating was. When I got into it, it was this world that was like, we can't really explain what's happening here, but it's fascinating. And I loved that. And that's what got me into floating. I remember on a side note, I remember going to the MAPS conference in 2017 and I remember being at this conference. It was in Oakland, California and it was massive. And it was, you know, every thought leader in psychedelics was there. And I remember just walking around be like, this is so funny to me that we are here, but yet no one can really explain why we're all here. Because like psychedelics is so beyond our. Our way to describe it. It's. It's. That's what's beautiful about it. It's. It takes you into the undescribable. And then yet we all come back and we're all trying to talk about it and that to Me was what floating was so magical. And then floating started to get more. As it became more of a thing. Science wanted to come in and study it, which is great. And it brings credibility to it. And I think there's a level of like, no duh, like, you know, we do this, it works.

It's the same thing with psychedelics. Now every week I get hit up by a new company that is wanting to capitalize on what mother Nature has given us. So you're so right. We feel something. We start seeing aspects in our community where people are being healed. Depression, anxiety, ptsd. And then all of a sudden Silicon Valley licks its chops and it's like, let's make that money. And I'm not anti capitalism, I believe in conscious capitalism. I'm pro conscious capitalism totally. But what do you make of this? Like, why do we, why do we operate like this as humans where we, we try to see what's out there and then make money off of it. It's like, what the hell is going on there? Why not just serve people and then let the money come?

It's a fascinating one. I mean, whether it's a science front or from a financial standpoint, it's like the science one's really unique to me from a western world like this. Need to quantify it for some reason, for some, whether it's, I don't know if it comes from a validation standpoint, but there is like this. It's important that we can, you can replicate what happened. Science is important. It's a study to. You're actually trying to prove yourself wrong. Like that's the goal of it. Which I think is a beautiful thing. The good science is exactly, exactly like when you really break it down. But it's fascinating to me of like, you know, you go down to the Amazon or just full on different cultures that are working literally from a different paradigm. Like it's, you know, they're, they're much more of like a shamanistic culture where everything is an entity and everything has consciousness and it's just their view, it's their way of living and they just, it doesn't need to be quantified. And so I'm always, and I'm not knocking the western world, I'm not saying it's the wrong way or that's the good way. I think there's trade offs to all of it. I'm just fascinated that we, and me a part of it, I'm a part of this. Like I grew up in a Western, you know, the United States. And why do we need to quantify everything? I don't have that answer. It's just really interesting to me.

Yeah, I had to be honest with everyone. In 2017, I completely let go of the quantified self movement. I was way deep down the rabbit hole. I was listening to Tim Ferriss, I was doing all the N equals ones. And then at some point I was just like, duh. Like, it was like, oh, I don't need to like record everything to prove that it's okay. I was using the Muse headband. I was tracking my steps. I was like, I went so far down the rabbit hole. And I start. And I was having conversations with Paul, Check. So thanks to Paul for introducing us. He's a brother and a mentor and a friend. Amazing human. And he was telling me one day that our friend Mike Salemi was wearing the Oura ring. And when he didn't wear the Oura ring, he actually slept worse because he was having like, almost like tertiary anxiety about not wearing the ring. So in a way, the external framework of accountability was always needed instead of just the internal locus of control. And that was like a wake up call for me.

It reminds me of religion.

It kind of is.

It's when the. We get spirituality. You know, you look at the teachings of Jesus Christ, a spiritual human that came onto this planet, and then it became dogmatic, then it became more about these act like the, the, the writings of it and am I doing it right as opposed to actually embodying it? And that I hear into this, you know, I see that a lot in the biohacking world. It becomes the chart and the papers and as opposed to like, what do you feel like? Are you really checking in with yourself are embodied or is it, are you chasing something that's like how to improve? So I see that a lot in I think, and science is that way too. We make it religious.

Yeah, I'm not here to diss anyone. I think, you know, a few weeks ago we had Ben Stewart, who was the director of Psychedelica, sitting in the chair and he said something so profound, he was like, you know, in everyone's perspective, there's always a gift. Even if it's people that are trying to stick something in my body, there's always a perspective that I can learn from. And so for quantified self, I get that they're trying to improve based on data and the external framework, but in my opinion and from my own life experience, if I don't have an inspiration, if I don't have an internal locus of control to really want to do something on a repeated basis, then all I am doing is just dangling a carrot for myself. And I'm not really getting to the root of the behavior or the root of the misalignment. Right. And so the reason I'm saying this is because when it comes to the cold and when it comes to the desire for people to go back to the tank, back to the tank, over and over and over again, there's gotta be a couple anchors. Maybe it's an anchor of growth to spirituality in God. Maybe it's an anchor to knowing that you get immune system benefits. There's some kind of anchor that we can't always have outside of ourselves. It's gotta be an internal anchor. So, like, what's. What's your internal anchor when it comes to the cold and what are others internal anchors when it comes to loving the cold? Loving the cold therapy.

And that's a great point, because I think, yeah, you don't want the thing that we're trying to improve become the.

Whip of like, I gotta go punish myself.

Exactly. It's like, what? And so that. Totally hear that with. I mean, for me, plunging right now is. Is a story override. Like, and there's an honesty level at some points. Like, I did take some time off from plunging. Took a week and a half off. And it was at first difficult. And I was like, I need to be in there. I'm not doing it. And it was like, no, just take your time off. Like, you're okay. But it was a. Right now, it's a story override. So it's. I don't have a good enough story of. To not go in. It's like, just bullshit telling myself, like, so that is what my anchor is right now is. Oh, it's all excuses. I'm basically trying to override my excuses. And that is my biggest, biggest one. And then from there, it's like the. In this modern world of immunity being such on the forefront, like, that is my immune system right now is. You know, I haven't had Covid. I've tested for antibodies. Like, that's not there. I'm not vaccinated. It's like, those are. Those are the choices that I've made. But it's like, cool. Then I have. These are the. I have to do this on a daily basis to keep myself robust, to keep doing, to do the hard thing. Like, those are my anchors consistently. And it's like, it's hard. I don't want to do it all the time. But this is a way that allows me to improve those areas.

Yeah. The path of least resistance isn't always the way. Sometimes it is, but when it comes to physical health, I just haven't seen it be that way. Like, the path of least resistance is actually what makes us unhealthy in so many different ways.

Yeah. When is the path of like. Like as that's a fun conversation to rift on. Like, what is. When is resistance healthy?

Sure.

Obviously work weight training in the physical form. That is resistance is good.

Yeah.

When is. And then there are times that it's not good. When have you found to be like least resistance?

I love this podcast. Like, for me, I think when it comes to resistance, sometimes it can be a matter of the heart. So when it comes to intellectualizing a heart based issue, like maybe a partner that deep down you know you love them and you explore deeply in all aspects of self, is it my programs from childhood that is actually blocking love for my partner? Is it my partner's wounds from childhood that's blocking the love to me? Or have we done the work and do we actually know that we served and healed one another and it's time to move on? But I'm scared of moving on. That's a matter of the heart where really the resistance of leaving. It might be easier in some ways and it might be harder in other ways, but we all know everybody reaches a certain tipping point in their life from an emotional intelligence perspective where the weight of not changing becomes so great that the weight of change is the path of least resistance. And so I think it applies to that kind of a moment, for sure. But I'm curious how you feel.

Yeah, I asked because I. It's. It seems to be like, it depends the context and it depends like what the moment is. Yeah, I think, you know, I think from like a business front, it's like least resistance is like sometimes it's like, what's the talent that we have on the team? Like, how do we best utilize this for the things that we want to do as opposed to, oh, we don't have this, but we want to try and do it another way. So let's just set our sales to what the team's talents are and we can go play out and play the bet. I mean, coaches always are asking that question, like, is it a system that's more important or is it the playing to my team's talent? And yeah, you know, I think that's like a. I tend to lean towards talent, like, lean towards what's there? What do you have right now? And play off of that. And then on the resistance front, it's to me it's like with the physics. Yeah. It's like, you know, putting things into place that are difficult. Like I'm very resistant to sit in ceremony with psychedelics. Like that is a. That is a thing that I'm like, I don't want to do.

And sometimes that's okay because that resistance is yourself, not your ego. It's your soul trying to protect you.

Totally.

Yeah.

And that, that's just that to me is like a. That's kind of the game of being human, discerning. Like when is this a wild game?

Isn't it?

It's holy shit. It's just a self awareness game.

It really is.

And it's like there's moments that it's like breakthrough and be like, wow. And I'm in some inquiry right now where there's things that I'm not seeing about myself, my blind spots that are probably very present to the world that I'm trying to work through itself. But it's like that's the constant game is humanity. So it's like, I don't know how we got there from resistance.

No, it's perfect. I know how we got there. Because sometimes doing hard shit is so healthy. And sometimes fighting and taking the path of more resistance is actually going to hurt you. And it's like we have to. That's called being an adult. We learn over time what truly serves us. Because it's hard or because it's the path of least resistance. And I think we can only learn that through experience. We cannot read that. I mean, I have a bookshelf full of books. I'm sure you do too. I'm sure everyone with us has read tons and tons and tons of books. But the only way I think you really learn is through experience. Like life experience is the teacher. It's the one that brings the pain, it's the one that brings the lessons. And it's almost like for Bitcoin, it's like you look at the candles and eventually everything goes up. Much like stock markets too. But there are some pretty severe dips along the way. And I think that's you and I. I think that's the human experience. Like we're going to eat shit sometimes. And it's in those bottom of the barrel moments that we make decisions that we won't disrespect ourselves anymore. We won't stop loving ourselves. Like we won't abandon Ourselves. And this is the next piece of our conversation, and that is anxiety and depression. One of the things you mentioned to me right when you came through the door is you're like, I'm so excited about Mark Groves and about this movement of emotional health and letting go of anxiety and depression, being like this puppeteer on people's minds. And it prompted me to immediately show you this second PubMed study. And it is a 2008 PubMed adapted cold as a potential treatment for depression. Differences are huge. And really what they found was in this cohort group that there was a decrease of 25% in people that did cold therapy and they actually had more of the antibodies for feeling good, which are like the, you know, the things that make us feel good, like all the good chemicals, the dopamine, the serotonin. And I just, I was like, another thing. I was like, duh. Because when we're in the cold, we're breathing. When we're breathing, we're in the present moment, we're not distracted by the past. When you're freezing, when you're shivering, you're not thinking about 1986, when that guy dumped you, you know, or whatever it is. And you're not stressed out about the future. You don't have anxiety that, you know, your business might fail or your husband, your wife might leave you, or what's going to happen when you go on stage, blah, blah, blah. None of that's there. So when I Look at this 2008 PubMed for the cold therapy for specifically depression. The opposite of depression is expression. So what are we doing in the cold tank? We're expressing, we're moving spinal fluid, we're pumping all four diaphragms in the body. So there's so much going on there. How excited are you? And what do you see that really lights you up about anxiety and depression and cold therapy? Because this is like, this is like the big frontier. We know the science on fat and metabolism, but emotional health, anxiety and depression, I think this is like unlocking a huge. A huge space for you to explore.

I think with. I mean, depression is one where I grateful I haven't experienced it too much in my life. But I've had a few little windows where it's like, oh, got it. Like, I get it, you know, can't get out of bed. It's just like it. The to move the boulder is so large and heavy.

Yes.

The thing with cold blinded and I go back for all of it is it's on a time front. It's Such a short commitment, you have to give to it. And when you're in like a very depressed state, it's, it's so big things are so, they're almost unachievable, they're unfathomable. And if you had this in your house or you have a river right near you or you have a cold shower, there's a moment that it might just give you a window. It's only, you know, get in for two minutes, do 10 breaths. Like maybe that's the game getting in for, but it's like it might just give you that window to kind of make the, make the shift. Because that's to me what depression is. It gives you like a window in time. You might be able to open up out of it and step and make, start making the actionable steps that are obvious to the world. But it's, it doesn't, that's not, that's the point of when I'm depressed. It's like I get. Everyone knows what I need to do to make the steps, but I can't do it like I'm paralyzed and so I. Cold plunging is just the best ROI on time and to. It's such a small commitment. You don't have to, you don't have to drive somewhere to get to go do a 90 minute workout. You don't even have to go get in a float tank, which is a thing. You don't have to go have the hard conversation with a friend. It's just like you yourself two minutes and it's going to give you a shift in perspective, a shift in energy and all these, you know, all the, the serotonin and energy increase that takes place and yeah, that's what, that's. It pumps me up big time.

I almost feel like depression can be a wall of bricks that's built over time because somebody without the right awareness or without the right tools or you know what, forget about even the right. What if somebody's just had a lot of trauma in their life?

Totally.

It's not necessarily their fault, but it is their responsibility to heal. So I think about like let's say a thousand bricks of depression are stacked. It's not about going and taking out the bricks of depression because whatever you focus on, it just comes right back to you. So if you try to fight depression, you're just gonna get more depression. So you have to go to the other side. You have to stack bricks on the wall of self, love, of presence, of caring for yourself. And so that's what I feel like if somebody did, this might be an interesting thing for the cold plunge to do. Like an emotional health and emotional intelligence journey for people that are suffering with anxiety and depression for like a 30 day protocol totally. That they all get involved in in a group and they all do the cold plunges together and they all check in and they all are with one another. Because, man, I guarantee you the minute that people stop focusing on how many bricks can I remove from depression and instead they focus on how much can I love myself, how much can I cold plunge, how much can I breathe? Like naturally those bricks will fall on their own. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, it's like once you get a win, it's tough to get put wins in place when you're depressed. But it's like if, if you can get just a small win, build the next day. Build the next day. It's like you're, I think you're onto something. And then doing it in community, like where it's like, okay, just for this moment in time, today we're focused on like a positive thing.

Yeah.

And it's just one thing. But that depression to me is a momentum game and it's so hard to get switch the momentum like it is. And I've been there. It's like it feels impossible like to even get out of bed. But if it's like. And that's, that's one thing getting out of bed. But if you can have the one thing, set the win up one. And then the anxiety front that you talk about, like that is, you know, that is such a magical place of it pulls you so into the present moment. Like I wake up and I could have. It's like my mind naturally jumps to, oh my God, I gotta get this email done. I have this, I have that, like we're having this issue with a staff member or like whatever, a unit's not working and like all the things. And it's like get into the plunge and I'm just back to. It's meditation. I'm back to what's important, what can I do now? Like, life seems so much more manageable coming out, like coming out of the cold plunge that it's like I'm clear on my next step. Floating. Is that for me too? It's like I never. Big life decisions. I go get in the float tank and clarity just arises. It's like, oh, that's the next thing. Not questioning what 20 options are and which one I need to move towards. And to me anxiety is the absence of that. It's just clarity into the next step.

And what's one of the biggest moments that you've had in a float tank or in a cold tank that really allowed you to make a hard decision?

I remember for floating it was. It was a moment where. So this is back when I had my old job and we were building little context worked Major League Soccer. Our organization was building a new stadium. The stadium ended up getting delayed by a year which caused a lot of. It was like in sports world a new stadium coming is like a big career movement. And this is before I had wanted to go start my. Like I wasn't starting my own float center or anything. It was like I was into this career and I remember the stadium getting delayed. I was really contemplating like I'm going to quit this job because it ended up impacting a lot of things in my career. And I remember thinking, no, let's drive. I was living in San Jose. Let's go drive the hour. Let's go get in the float tank. I remember like coming out and it was just so clear of like you're not quit. Like went back in to my boss and because it was this option, basically a severance option on the table, like we could leave. And because they were very. It was a difficult thing for a lot of people to make. But that decision, it wasn't a huge one in my life. But I remember just that clarity of just like boom, oh, I know what to do. And I was so at peace with it. I never thought about it again. I charged forward and it's been a. To stay at that job was a key component of this whole journey for me. And so that's when I always remember. I think of. You know, I've had so many like relationship moments in mostly in the float tank is more reflective for me in the cold plunge it's more of removing the over like over reflections that takes place. Yeah, it's like the absence of it where floating I can go deeper into it and kind of like focus in on the concept and the clarity of the moment comes where the other one just removes. Removing the clutter. That's what. That's what cold plunging feels like.

Wow. Two things. Two huge things. Number one, cold therapy and breath work. And even the what happens in the sauna. These things are really safe unless you have pre existing conditions. Obviously I have to say this. Consult your medical provider. And it sucks that I have to say that. But I have to say that you also could just use your intuition.

Right.

You could do that too. When people Are dealing with stress, anxiety, Fill in the blank. What's happening? And I did a lot of research for the Breathe Breath and wellness program where I actually had a pediatrician write in. And she was like, josh, for the first time in my life, and this is somebody that works in the medical field, working with children all the time. She was like, for the first time in my life, I actually know what it's like to have a periodized schedule where I can know how to calm myself down. And she's like, I've never had that before. And I dug into it even more in regards to the default mode network. Default mode network. As you know, it's the frontal cortex, the posterior cingulate, and the amygdala. There's a few more parts of the brain, but those are the core three. And the whole function of the default mode network is it is the thing that searches for danger when you're doing one task. So if anybody's ever like, tried to focus, tried to meditate, the default mode network is like, is there a tiger? Is somebody trying to kill me? Is it gonna rain? Like, the default mode network is the monkey mind. And I was cued to this by Michael Pollan, actually, and some of the work that he's done in his books for psychedelics. And he talked about a study for breathwork. And I looked more into PubMed and dude, there it was, multiple studies about how breath, specifically, because of the vagal toning aspect and how it's tied into the central nervous system and the vagus nerve, it actually physically turns down the circuitry, the load inside of the brain for the default mode network. And so what we're talking about has this beautiful anecdotal experience where you're like, yeah, it gives me clarity, it removes the thoughts. But on a scientific level, you are actually. They do pet scans for this where they can see where the brain lights up. You're taking a volume knob on the part of your brain that searches for danger all the time and you're turning it down, which is amazing.

Fascinating.

We're in the tank and we're turning down the volume of our scanning mechanism for danger. And then of course, from that place, great ideas come, creativity comes, more peace comes.

And I find that in the plunge. When I'm. When I struggling in the, when I'm struggling in there and it's like, it's finding something that's off. Like when I'm clear in there, it's like, I can go for so long. It's like the more resistance that I have or I'm scanning the brain for like, like I just uncomfortable or starting to suffer more in there. And it's like I'm not even bringing awareness to the suffering. The plunge is very difficult. But as I like, oh, cool. Like you, it reminds me of tattoos. I remember when I'd get tattoos and it's like the needle coming into the body. It was like, why am I so quick to say this hurts? Like, it's just a sensation. My brain is labeling the pain. The plunge is very similar to that. It's like, why am I so quick to say this is like bad or so uncomfortable? And the moment I can build that relationship, it calms that whole system down and I get to just lay into it.

Let's talk about the difference in tanks, because when I got the tank, I think I had it set up in like less than 30 minutes. It's pretty freaking easy to say. You basically fill up the tank, plug it in and then it turns on. It's awesome. My freezer. And we'll show this in the episode right now or later on, there's the one tank where I had to seal it with marine sealant. I had to disinfect it. I had to fill it up with filtered water. I had to close it. I had to wait for a day and then it works. But when I have guys over and when we're doing like hot, cold, I have to change the water every time. And that takes time. Then I gotta wait another day for the freezer to kick on again. And then there's your modality. And your modality is really cool because it cleans the water itself. You don't have to change the water. And there's actually ozone that gets shot in the water too. And then there's the other side, the third component, which is like the horse trough, you know, the steel container. You go to AMPM and you buy the ice and you like throw the ice in there. Can you explore for us, for people that don't know, like the mediums of cold therapy? Because this is a big decision making.

Yeah. I mean, there's. You have the DIY side of like the chest freezer. And it's a thing and it works. It's possible. But you're going to run into stagnant water. You're going to run into having to switch that out. They're not built for that either.

Like, I know mine's actually leaking. I have to get rid of it.

At some point, run into it. And you know, and I'm not here to like they're all. What's getting you in the cold is great. Like there are so many ways to do it and I think so there's that, there's the horse trough side where you have to buy the ice every single time. Yeah. And drain it and it's like. Yeah, I think that's good if you have some buddies over and you're doing a one time thing and we're all getting together. But it's just, it's not first, it's not really sustainable like to be buying that, wasting that water, doing that consistently. That's, that's not the move. It's kind of a one off situation and it's fun if you want to do it. Like if you're just trying to do it one time. Do the horse trough before you come buy a cold plunge. Like get, get into cold a couple times. You don't have to but you know it's, it's. I would recommend it try it out a couple times.

As long as people don't use that as a reason for why they can't do it. 100 because that's, that's a tricky little ego and oh, I tried it. It didn't work. It's like. Well you mean it was inconvenient. Yeah.

And that's the point is like it's, it's going to take a little bit. It's going to take a few times. I love the people. Like I'm just so amazed with people that like buy our cold plunge and then we talk to them. It's like I've never done it. I'm just all in. And I'm like you're, you're like not how I would roll but like man like you're the conviction here is.

But that investment makes them do it and that's cool. That's totally the kind of person you.

Are and it's understanding yourself. Like it takes like if I know I have this cold sitting there right there, I'm going to get in. If I don't have it, I'm not like for me it was only going to a river and it was seasonal. Yeah. And I would go if on a great week, twice a week. And you know, there's not the consistency that I wanted there. So the different models, it's like I think ours just makes it convenient. It's a, it's, it's in the comforts world, you know, because you have it, you have it there but it's, it's making it that you have it all the time. It's on demand. You don't have to keep wasting your water. The other cool thing, too, is it looks good. Like, I. It wasn't something that we create. We wanted something that looked like, if someone's going to invest in this, they can be proud that this looks good. It doesn't have to be, you know, hidden off in the corner.

Like, it looks like a bathtub at the Bellagio.

Yeah, exactly.

It's dope.

It's got a. It's got a sleek look to it.

Yeah.

And so that was important, too. So that's like a feature. It's become this, like, cool showpiece that we've seen that people are bringing kind of this ceremonial vibe. And it looks good in a backyard or the wife loves it, too. You know, it's like male, masculine, feminine. Like, it all kind of is combined there. So there, you know, there's different features to it. I think the thing I would say is, like, on the DIY side, if you're setting out to do it, make sure you love to do diy and you're actually into the process of building it, because it's going to give you more headaches. And I. You're not saving that much if you're doing the DIY right in compared to getting the plunge. And that's. I'm a guy that's like, we have a joke in the company that I'm so unhandy that it's like, if Ryan can do it, then we know it can go to market. Like, and so, like, the setup, all of it, like, that's a. That's a thing within. That's. I'm not the engineering side to it.

Yeah.

And so it's like, I prefer to have something that's readily. Like, I can order it and it shows up and I can set it up, and it's good to go. The. The other ones are. It's just going to be a. It's a different commitment level. So it's hacking yourself. Like, what's going to actually get me into a cold plunge.

Sure. And I'm not here to say what people should and should not do. I just think that when I heard you say that, all the different ways you're just honest about. I don't get from you that you're like, you have to buy my shit at all. That's not.

I mean, I. There's other. Even, like, there's other companies that. It's like, that we've had conversations, like, maybe that's a better fit for you.

Sure.

And for whatever reason that is. And so I am very much like on a mission of cold water right now. It's cold water therapy. I'm on a mission of health and wellness and happiness and people feeling fulfilled and comfortable with themselves. Like that's the big picture here. Started with floating, it turned into plunging. So I'm very focused on cold therapy right now. But it's not the end all Plunge is not the only brand that or unit that you should be using there. There's so much out there.

But you were on Shark Tank. Come on. I mean that's pretty cool. How did that happen?

They actually reached out to us.

Really?

Yeah.

Is that rare that Shark Tank reaches out to a company?

I don't know. I think it, I don't. I think it is. I think it is. I. I don't know because I haven't really been through that process before. But they reached out and got our attention really quick. Yeah.

And when that'll change. That's going to change your whole business.

It. Yeah.

I mean it's going to explode. You.

We don't know when it'll air. There's always.

Don't tell you when it's going to air.

They tell us three weeks before and so we don't know when or if it was cool. They did a. Their pre marketing material launching the season was a shot from our set of. And they were kind of like teasing our pitch. So that was a good sign.

Yeah.

So it was, it was an awesome experience. It was. Yeah, man. We're. We're excited that it's just gonna like, it's gonna mainstream this conversation for a bit.

Yeah.

And that's the bigger picture is like how do we get. You know, I'm not. Again, it's not to your point. It's not. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing. It's more of I want to present good opportunities for people, good options and they can choose. And so that's what's exciting about Shark Tank is it's going to just get this message out to so many more people of like in this current narrative right now of, you know, like, oh, we're unhealthy and we're not in control of being able of our. We need to. It's almost like it's externalized of how to get healthy and like it's outside of ourselves. Like we're not in control of it. There's this fear. It's very fearful right now and there's a Lot happening. And I get that. And I'm just here to state no, you are so much more in control than you think. And this isn't from a place of you're bad for thinking that way. It's just like, no, no. Deep down that you are in more. You are in control of your health.

To the degree that we can be. Because sometimes we have to honor the mystery, too. Like, bad things happen to good people all the time, but at least we have the power of choice. I mean, wow. Thank you for free will. Free will is amazing because we can choose to look at our life. And I would say for anyone that's feeling this, like, go to wellnessforce.com plunge. You gave us an awesome discount. Thank you for that, by the way. Because I know it's like, it's challenging to make margins on these products. You gotta get shit shipped over from overseas, and you got to have build it and ship it. Like, the guy that came here, he delivered it on a FedEx. And I knew that wasn't cheap. So there's a lot of costs that you incur. And so I think you've done a really good job of pricing this tank that everybody can afford. You know, there's plans for like 50 bucks a month.

Yeah. You can do a firm. You can pay it off through there.

It's amazing.

Yeah. I mean, that. That was what got us into it, to be honest. Like, we. There were other things out there, but we were like, we'll only get into this if we can really enter in at a price point that. That changes the game.

Yeah.

And we were able to do that. And so we've been. It's a big part of our mission. So we really. It's kind of everything with the pricing is always with that in mind.

And I'll tell you straight up, like, I spent about 12, 1500 bucks on my freezer. It lasted nine months, and it's leaking, so. And I can't take it back. Sears is bankrupt. During. During the pandemic, there was only like, one company in the entire United States that had a handful. And I'm talking, like, three freezers left. Now there's more freezers. But these things aren't designed. Like, I even had to use marine sealant. I sealed the entire freezer. It still leaked. And I did a good job of sealing it. It's not like I didn't seal it. These things, they're just not designed for that. And of course, if I called Sears and I was like, hey, dudes, I've been cold Plunging. Can you come fix it? They're gonna say, no, not at all. There's no warranty when you cold plunge in your freezer.

No. They're like, you did this. You're out of the game now.

So I really appreciate that. And I think about what you guys have created. Like, there really is no resistance for people to dive into this. No pun intended. Like, literally, like, don't dive into the plunge. Like, sit into the plunge. My partner's father is here visiting Carrie's father. And she was like, go on, dad. He's never done the plunge before. You met him when you came here and he was like, I did it for two minutes. I felt great. And he's never done that before. So if somebody in their 50s has never done it and they get a positive result from it, it's kind of a barometer for the direction I think we can all go in.

I just love that. I mean, you got to have this experience with your father in law or your partner's father. You guys did something hard together. And I have no clue what your guys experience is like in the past, but it's like, it's just a new thing that we can do in community together. It can be a personal thing and we get to do hard stuff together.

Which is why you founded Capital Floats. I think it was on your about section. I'm remembering. It was about community and it was when you. You came and you founded it with. Who is your co founder for Capital Floats?

I founded that by myself. You did. And then I. We launched a second facility and I had a co owner with that.

And so I think about how people always want to come together, whether it's a drum circle or a medicine circle or even. I've been thinking about, like, us doing this on a stage where we can involve a community. That'd be awesome in like a live podcast. How cool would that be? Let us know if you guys would love to see that. I would love to do that. Get audience questions and make people part of this conversation.

Clarify certain things that are coming up like that, because they already are.

Everyone that's with us is with us. It's not like we're above anyone or we've got it all figured out. You know, you've just really put your heart, your money, your balls, your soul on the line to create this. So we covered a lot of ground, man. Is there anything that somebody hasn't asked you on a podcast that you'd love to answer? Or what do you think we missed? I mean, we went over the immunity in depth, we're going to link our PubMed studies. We went over weight loss, actually. Weight loss. Obviously, if you have more brown fat, you're going to lose weight because you're burning more energy at rest. So your resting metabolic rate is going to be higher. But from maybe an emotional intelligence standpoint or spirituality, how does this truly impact people? Like, what can you leave people with if they're on the fence about exploring the. The cold plunge?

I always come back to, like, I could only speak from my experience, and I know. I know what I know it works. And so it's like I and I. People don't even probably know who I am. And, you know, you don't not ask.

I feel like we know you now.

I just changes your life. Yeah, it changes your life. You bring this practice into your life. It is. You are going. I. You will be a better version of yourself. And I can guarantee you that. And that is. It's just a better thing that you're gonna love who you are. Like, that's. It's gonna get you closer to the things that you want to do. And I just come back to that because that's what it's done for me.

Amazing. And I know this because we're about to do it together.

I can't get it.

So we film that. Omar is gonna film us. We're gonna hang out in the garage. You're gonna see my garage setup. But you know, the way that I love to end conversations on this show. And just in life in general, I'm always interested in how people feel about this. How does Ryan see wellness? Everything you've been through, from the motorcycle accident in Thailand, to founding Capital floats, to going through your own dark nights of the soul, to being the entrepreneur and getting sick. I mean, it's been a wild ride. You've been through quite a bit. How do you define wellness? You know, if you were on a stage and you were speak. Well, you are on a stage and you're speaking to people about wellness. You know, how does Ryan Dewey describe wellness? What's your definition of living life? Well.

I'm very simple in my wording sometimes, and to me, it's just like a common barometer. Am I happy? And when I say that, it's not like every moment to moment, am I happy? It's. Am I genuinely happy? Am I happy with where my life's at? And it's. It's a. And it's everyone to discover what that means to them. But I think wellness are just tools to allow and nurture you to go through heart. Like actually go through the dark night of the soul and actually go towards the things. There's just things in place to keep you moving forward to where you want to go. It's not the end all to be all. It's never. You've never arrival of these are the things that work. And this is how it is. It's a constant new discovery of it. But am I happy?

That reminded me of what Dr. Ben lynch said. That's awesome. He talked about us always pivoting and moving to adjust more towards being well, which is. It's always a moving target, man. I appreciate you. I appreciate you partnering with Wellness Forest. It's very rare that I put people in the store. Like, we only have about 20 products in there because I don't like to stand behind things unless I've done them. And so I've done this with you. We're about to do it. I've done it. It's amazing. So wellnessforce.complunge or you can just go to thecoldplunge.com right?

Yep.

Enter the code WellnessForce. You get a really nice price break, which is awesome. Cause I know your margins aren't always easy. So thank you for that. Thank you for your generos, your community, man. Thank you for coming on the show, Ryan. It's real honor. And until we see you guys again, Ryan and I are both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you then.

Appreciate y'.

All. It.