Sacred Birth: How To Liberate Your Lineage + Conscious Birthing For Generational Healing

Birth provides maximum opportunity to terminate any and all of the trauma that has been this lifetime, all lifetimes. It's birth that can facilitate that.

The disconnection of birth, life and death could never really be as high of magnitude as it is now because we're in this quick pace of life where we're just trying to get the result with actually doing the real deep work.

When I was born, I have a memory of laying in my mother's arms and, and just yearning for her to ask me about my experience. Imagine you just got back from the most heroic journey of your entire life and you get back and no one even asks you what that experience was like for you. And the feeling is that I had lived lifetimes inside of the womb. Birth is a rite of passage. Any and all of the energies that are present for that time period. Imprint your beliefs then about yourself when you move forward.

The way that we come into the world, it creates a ripple and it's really the creation of a fabric that we live our entire lives. How we birth, how we live and how we die, they're all intertwined. They're all interconnected.

Everything that precedes birth, our lives before birth, set us up and inform. Everything that follows informs the way we live, the way we are in relation to all life, all of nature, all fellow humans, and to life itself. And therefore then informs the way that we die.

Hey, it's Josh. Before we get into this episode, I have a small yet powerful favor to ask of you. The community has been growing by thousands lately and the bigger the tribe, the bigger names of world class guests we can have on this podcast that I can bring to you from my heart, from my curiosity, so you can have more wellness and wisdom in your life. Would you please be so kind as to hit the subscribe button wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. It'll allow us to rise naturally in the algorithms based on your 2 second act of generosity by you just tapping that little subscribe button wherever you're viewing or hearing this episode. Thank you so much. It means the world to me and our entire team here at Wellness and Wisdom. Now, enjoy the podcast. Victoria, we made it. We're here. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

Thank you for having me on, Josh.

It has been a journey to get here. There has been a ton of luminosity. I just want to say straight up, this conversation is timeless, truly timeless. Because the way that we come into the world, it creates a ripple and it's really the creation of a fabric that we Live our entire lives. How we birth, how we live and how we die, they're all intertwined, they're all interconnected. And just in a moment I'll ask you, you know, who are you? What do you do? Which I'm sure has evolved over the years. But I just want to say thank you. It was such a beautiful experience to be able to work with you, myself and Kerry Michelle through two births, one.

Of them unplanned cesarean, one of them.

Natural at 9,000ft in freaking Colorado. So there's a lot to discuss today, but I just want to say thank.

You from my heart.

You've been such a great guide. Many people try to be guides in this world, but you truly are a guide of energy, of spirit, of people, of matter. And it's something that a lot of people try to fake, but with you.

It'S always felt very palpable, very real.

I think it's the core of who you are.

So thank you for your guidance in two births with myself and my beautiful lady, the mother of my children.

Just thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for working with us, Josh.

Thank you so much for that. Welcome. It truly means the world to me. And you know, we cross paths with thousands of people throughout our lives and we have the opportunity to see, to follow up, to be in the presence of something. At least I know for myself that I've had the absolute honor to show up and support you through, to see you through, to witness you through. It's just, it's a gift. Yeah. Thank you.

You're so welcome. You know, I was feeling into this on the way over. I was actually in traffic today because life was being life. Right? Just like birth is not always how we want it, neither is life and sometimes neither is death. You know, this triad, this triangle we'll talk about today. And I was feeling into it and I thought, wow, what a beautiful place to start this conversation about luminous birth, about you. You went through a near death experience and it's so ironic, so uncanny that you actually help guide people through birthing.

Not just naturally, but sacredly. You know, this near death experience you had at 21, you said on your website it provided me with a supreme opportunity to not only consciously choose to live, but. But to choose the path of becoming fully alive, to incarnate. And it's taken you a decade plus to integrate this lesson. Let's start there. There's a lot to unpeel, but I think a woman who is so profoundly helping people bring life into the world it's so ironic to me that you almost died, that you had this near death experience at 21. Let's start there. What was that like for you? And how can you look back and go, wow, thank you God, for the fuel to do what I do now.

Wow. Wow, you really kicked it off there. I love it. I love that question. I love the invitation to just drop into that space. And I can't even go into it without acknowledging my appreciation for your already connection between birth and life and death. And as I prepared to come onto this interview today, I was thinking of just that we get so fixated on that which is right in front of us. And now we're living in a time where there's so much atrocity happening inside the medicalized system, the industry of birth, that we have to learn and we have to educate ourselves and we have to heal from the trauma. And so that gives us no choice but you really dial in if we're preparing to get pregnant or preparing for the journey of birth. But the reality is that it is so much bigger than the way we're born. In everything that precedes birth, our lives before birth set us up and inform everything that follows informs the way we live, the way we are in relation to all life, all of nature, all fellow humans, into life itself, and therefore then informs the way that we die. So we all, if we're living in a human body, if we got born, then we have this extraordinary opportunity to anchor our souls into our bodies. And I think that we need to be profoundly humble to the fact that most of us living in the Western world were welcomed into our lives industrially. And that's something to just pause and think about. We were welcomed into our lives industrially. And so, yeah, there's a lot of unlearning, sure, but there's a lot of remembering that we get to do to become insouled and soul our bodies. And yeah, I, I always say, you know, if you're born drugged and hooked up to machines, the chances are you're going to die drugged and hooked up machines. And so when we talk about the implications of birth, I say they are at minimum lifelong. And I believe that the implications of how we're born are much longer than so. And, and you know, I want to say right out of the gate, because for all of our listeners, this conversation about birth, I mean, we were all born, as I said, it brings us into the core of our genesis, into the core of who we are. And so I think the real message, if there's one to transmit here is that it is never too late to Heal, whether you're 25 or 95, just begin to engage in the process of becoming aware. So that's like, that's vast, right? We don't need to get anywhere, we don't have a destination, but begin to engage with the process of becoming aware. So you asked me about the near death experience.

But I love that you talked about the intricacies of birth because literally, I mean, I, I don't care if it's Dr. Zach Bush or yourself or so many people we've had on the show, they're all saying the same thing with different words. And that is how you begin is typically how you end. However, there's a space in the middle where we can actually become more aware. Like you said, we can become conscious of the actual machine, the industry that birth and life and death have become through modernity's clutches. And it doesn't have to be that way. Like, there's light here, there's luminosity here, AKA luminous birth, so that we can shine some light on the dark. Not to focus on the dark, not to swim in the dark, not to stay stuck in the dark, but to actually be aware that the dark exists so that we can become empowered enough to change our lives. And I think that's the conversation I'm excited to have with you today that I was leading you towards that, that, that near death experience. Because Neale, Donald Walsh, many people out there in the world who are impacting massive change like yourself, they actually have this point where they get to choose if they want to be here or not. And I think it's so profound. And I didn't know this about you until I was poking around website and, and doing research about you. That's the most fascinating thing for me. I always look for patterns and paradoxes. And when I saw that you had almost left the world at 21, I just asked myself, okay, how could it not be that she helped bring life into the world?

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, so. Well, I was in college at the time and I was driving the car in the morning and I was, I wasn't only in college. I, I was running a business. I had two other jobs. I was on concerta, ssri, you know, the typical one that they just hand out like candy. If you're in university and you have a hard time focusing because you're probably not at all interested in what it is you're doing or, you know, whatever. We don't need to go down that rabbit hole. I was in that, that stream of mediocrity of the linear way. And I always say life didn't give me much of a grace period. So yeah, I was hit by a bus, a Coach lines bus at an intersection on my driver's side which ended up being a three car collision. One of those vehicles being this biggest vehicle that can go on the road. And the series of events that was the car crash unfolding was this utter impossible. Like my car literally spiraled like this through a series of trees that were only about 4 to 5 meters apart, didn't hit a single one and stopped about inch in front of a ladder that someone was on working on a house. And so it was just like I didn't even hear the car or I didn't even hear the sound of the bus hitting the car. I was lights out immediately and my experience was that I got out of the car, I was going to pick up a couple of friends, we had just finished exams and I was going to pick them up in the morning or a day all together to celebrate. And. And my experience was that I got out of the car, I went to my friends and I just kind of calmed everybody, let everyone know everything was absolutely fine. But meanwhile what was actually happening was the car had crushed in on me, it took three men to get me out of the car. And so there was this physical thing happening. It happened actually outside of me friend's house at the intersection just before her house. They were the ones that called 911, which is. Yeah, Canadian emergency number. And whilst being on the phone they were asked is there anyone else involved in the accident? And all they could see was the bus and this other suv. So they did diligence to walk around the bus and there they saw me in the car. And my best friend still says to this day she had never seen me so blissful. She said you were luminous and you were in a complete state of bliss. So my experience was that I left my body immediately and I didn't grow up religious. My mother is a writer, sage, kind of sage spirit, mystic poet. So you know, when I had an issue growing up, her response would literally be go put your spine up against a tree and all of your answers will be there. So I.

That seems like that would be your mom.

Yeah. So yeah. Why do I say that? I say that just because, yeah, we weren't, we weren't. I didn't grow up in a household where we were worshiping, worshiping God as nearly the typically Correlate that in this experience the only word I had to describe it was God. I was, was transported into a complete godly realm where there were colors that I have never seen in this dimension and for that matter in any experience that evokes a non ordinary state. And it was very, very clear. I had the, the choice whether or not to live, which for me was very, very easy. And then another set of choices followed that and it was what path are you choosing to live? And this was really very interesting because two pathways unfolded in front of me and the one on the left was the path that I was on. And I literally saw everything I would accomplish, everything I would achieve all. You know, it was sort of like a timeline, like a film, if you will, just rolled out in front of me. Nothing wrong, nothing bad, beautiful, great, learn a lot, wonderful. And the other path was, yeah, the path of coming fully alive. And I saw myself inhabiting my body, being in my vasculature, breathing the air, taking in the sun, almost like exalted, but in a very embodied way. And the beautiful thing was that there was no wrong choice. And I could have taken as much time as I needed to make them a choice. And I still wonder, yeah, if I needed more time, if I've been in a coma for a long time. You know, I woke up in the hospital to them slamming me into X rays machines and blasting water in my eyes. Get the glass out. And many things. And I remember just trying. I was still in this non ordinary, very holy, holy realm. And I just needed everything to slow down, get darker and get quieter. And I remember wanting to scream like ouch. But I couldn't make sound. And I wanted to say please, please turn the lights down and go slower. You know, can we just, can everyone just stop everything? Can I just try to get in my body basically? And it just kept going faster and thrashing and clunking and it felt like I was experiencing gravity for the first time. And so all of this is to say that as the years went on I realized that that was a complete and total representation of my birth and of almost everyone's birth. Truly we leave this godly realm where we are interconnected. 1. The realm of oneness. I am with source to, yeah, gravity, rough, aggressive touch, fast movements, bright lights, all the things washing ointment, this and that. There's one unique thing about my work, I would say is that I have some birth and pre birth memories still intact, which that near death experience opened the library to even deeper. It was like remembering that I remembered remembering that I never forgot. And when I was born, I have a memory of laying in my mother's arms and just yearning for her to ask me about my experience. It was like, yeah, imagine you just got back from the most heroic journey of your entire life. You climbed Everest or did something that could kill you, and you get back, you're with your family, and no one even asks you what that experience was like for you. And the feeling is that I had lived lifetimes inside of the womb. I lost a twin around the time of my implantation, which is a very existential part of my being. Yeah. Follows me and it's part of my life. And so a lot of. So what I feel is that had I have been given the opportunity to share my experience at that time of birth, to express that grief, that primordial agony or whatever it was, the ecstatic bliss of feeling my father's smile permanent, permeating the room as I came through birth, you know, whatever it was that particularly with the twin loss, I feel if I had the space, and this is true for all babies, when babies have the space where they can share their story, where they can communicate in all the crystal clear ways that they do through their body language and their eyes and their movements and their feeding, that that grief wouldn't have become so deeply suppressed inside of my body. And what I want to actually correlate to the near death experience is that at the time of that near death experience, I didn't talk to even my closest family about what I had truly experienced. I didn't share that I had completely left my body and had this divine life changing experience for about two years. And so there's one way that I can see that that experience recapitulated, which means another event happened, and I internalized it and experienced it and responded to it in the same way.

Why did you not speak to them for two years about the truth of what you had seen, what you had been through, is because you yourself were figuring it out, or is it because you felt like they wouldn't receive it? Because I could see that conversation playing out much like the traditional conversation of, are you going to have a baby in the hospital or are you going to have a baby, you know, by a stream? I could see that there's like a lot of things to unpack as far as how your family would relate to you going into the depths of the abyss of consciousness, coming back reborn, rebirthed. There's a huge connection and corollary to the collective consensus about birth as well, were they not ready to hear it from you? Were you scared to share it with them?

Yeah, Josh, you know, it's a good question. I think. I think there's no one answer. 1. I was integrating on such a level that was almost cellular and molecular that to speak about it likely would have taken away. And so there was probably an unseen wisdom in the way that I went about it. And simultaneously the head trauma and the trauma of the actual experience inevitably played a role in the dissociation from the experience.

Yeah, it makes sense to me because, look, there's things that we talk about that are normalized and then there's things that we don't talk about that are normalized. I'm sure wherever you are, you're in Portugal. Correct? You live in Portugal. The culture there is much different than America. In America, you don't talk about politics, you don't talk about religion, but it's totally cool to talk about anything else. Birth is this one foot in, one foot out conversational acceptance topic where so many people have been trained, myself included. Before I met you, before I became a partner to Kerry, Michelle, before we had two beautiful children in the world, which you helped us bring into the world so beautifully, so powerfully. I did not know there were so many things that I was unconsciously incompetent about. In other words, I didn't even know that. I did not know birth was one of them. I didn't know about circumcision. I didn't know about the birth machine. I didn't know about the industrial medical complex. So many things I was unconsciously incompetent about. And this path of liberation that you talk about on your website, it always is in plain sight. I believe that liberation is something that is earned by feeling the other side of it, by feeling the part of slavery in myself and by projecting that slavery and projecting those ideals onto the very people that people I love.

It's just so wild. It's so wild that we project what we've learned unconsciously, incompetently, onto the very people that we say we love. Forgive us, God. We just do not know what we do not know. I wonder, to segue from the near death experience and your own birth experience and the way that even now you're probably still integrating that many years later. Where do. Where do we begin this conversation? In your broad spectrum of awareness of talent and of experience in birthing beings luminously, where do we begin this conversation? I want to ask you this because there's so many different angles to talk about how to bring life into the world in the most sacred, powerful, beautiful way. But maybe we should actually start in the dark. Where is the darkness now? Where is the biggest source of darkness when it comes to birth and birthing children? Where do you believe that actually is? Where is the greatest darkness on earth when it comes to birth right now?

Wow. Well, my. The answer that comes is, it's inside of us. It's inside of us, you know, and this is the birth is designed by nature. It's an exquisite design to escort us home, into our hearts, into the truth of who we are. Sometimes I talk about the blueprint, I withhold talking a lot about the credentials and the studying and pre and perinatal psychology, health and all these things. Because the reality is that we don't need to know anything to give birth. Cognitively, intellectually. We didn't need to know or learn anything to get born. This is an inherent indigenous wisdom. It's indigenous in all 100 trillion of ourselves. So I really like to bring it back to, yeah, we can talk about the scientific language and the biochemistry and the epigenetics, sure, but let us all just come back into our shared humanity. We all got bored. Nobody read books on the journey to birthing themselves. And so let's start there. This, this is an inherent wisdom. And even the most breakthrough models of prenatal care today, and this whole conscious conception, conscious birthing realm is largely a representation of the medical industry. And what do I mean by that? I mean that it's distancing us even further from where we need to be in order to give birth, in order to get born from the heart, from the body, from the feelings, from the memories and the memories of our own birth. And we're confused about what that means. We're confused about what is memory. Well, memory isn't what we remember. Memory is what we don't remember. We think that we don't remember things because we can't put words to them, right? How many times have you heard someone say, well if I can't. We really feel like if we can't put words to something, then we must not remember it. So we have to actually deconstruct our perception what memory is. We can't put words to these pre and perinatal luma, we see our bodies cold and because they took place in a non verbal time of our needs. So there's that and then there's. Memory is more accurately defined as the way in which we are experiencing our lives and more than that, the way we are responding to the experiences and interpreting our experiences. So this is why, yeah, all the popularization of plant medicine, specifically ayahuasca, because how do we refer to that sacred medicine? We refer to her as a very feminine mother. And so the way I spent a lot of time in the Amazon learning and apprenticing, and this is actually a part of my journey that I never talk about because we all have a different idea of what ayahuasca is. And the truth is that in the ancient Amazonian traditions, Ayahuasca is a very tiny, tiny part. Have an ancient tradition that goes back thousands and thousands of years. It is a medical system, an ancient medical system, a philosophy of healing. These people have an unforgotten understanding of the origins of health and the origins of disease. They're like the original custodians, pharmacists of the Powell. So I was immersed in that and I saw thousands of people inside the. Both inside the traditional setting and outside the traditional setting go through these experiences with ayahuasca. And I realized something right away. It is that inevitably, and I'm just using ayahuasca because a lot of people can relate to it in this day and age. And it's. It's so inseparable from the conversation of birth. And inevitably, the way in which people relate to that experience and then interpret their experience that they have is informed by their own birth. Medicines like ayahuasca are there to bring us back into right relationship with nature, with all life. Our separation, our deep wound of separation is cultural. It's the infant maternal separation that begins long before birth. So you, you separate all the babies from all the mamas, which is what's happening. How can we grow in right relationship with nature, with the earth? It is impossible. So we're, we are deeply out of relationship with nature. And therefore, yeah, the reasons why people are going to sit with ayahuasca and the ways that they're interpreting their experiences and so on and so on are very, very limited. And the people that they're sitting with are not aware of the ways in which their pre and perinatal experiences are inevitably representing in the ceremony and outside of the ceremonies. Well, this is the same in life. The way we're experiencing our world reveals our pre and perinatal experiences. And so to get in touch with those memories, we merely need to slow down and be in the present moment to look at what is here right now. And all the time, how am I experiencing my relationships? And the other thing I'll. I'll say about that with. And ayahuasca comes up now as well, because it can be, and in a lot of cases, can fuel profound healing and transformation. But look at what we have on our hands now. We have a whole millions of people that are floating in outer space and not anchoring, anchored into their bodies.

Yes, this is a really, really good point. There are so many, especially Los Angeles, San Diego, Austin, many of the major cities, and I'm sure in all continents, there is just this overuse and abuse of plant medicine and the dissemination of this incredible wisdom from these other dimensions that quite frankly, to quote Jordan Peterson, be careful of unearned wisdom. If we're not ready, if we're not spiritually mature enough to even receive the wisdom or even have the groundedness or the capacity or the space inside of our psyche, inside of ourselves, to receive the infinite wisdom of these plant allies, ayahuasca being one of them, I could see it could be a cover. It could be an egoic cover for pseudo healing. The healing that.

That seems on the outside that it's real because you're going through a peak experience.

Right.

With the DMT and everything else. I find it really fascinating that you spent so, so long in the Amazon and in parts. In parts of Peru.

Yes.

Is that where you studied?

I find it so fascinating that now we're returning to this realm of nature for wisdom, but yet there has to be a program to prepare us to even receive it. Because if we go back and we try to go from the first floor of an apartment to the 15th floor in one jump, we don't have the muscle, we don't have the mindset, we don't have the maturity to be able to handle that jump. It's just so drastic of a jump. And I could see that being completely. There's a lot of corollaries in our podcast today. On one side, we have the awareness of birth and how birth was designed to be innately, sacredly, spiritually. Then we have the mechanistic model that pumps out babies through 50% or more cesareans. It's actually the same thing now from a maturity standpoint with ayahuasca and with plant medicines, where. Where you have people that are using them in a mechanistic way. Really, what I get from you is this super gear drop where we're really slowing down and we're returning back to the way that things were designed to be. And when I say to be, I just mean to be birthed in a way where there's not so much intervention and even in corollary to plant medicine ceremonies, to be able to receive wisdom, one has to be mature enough first to receive it. I think it's the same thing with birth. And, you know, we found it as a couple through pain. Carrie was very deep in the world of knowledge, of birth, and she actually found you and we found you through mutual friends, which was so amazing. It was like cosmic breadcrumbs that traced us back to you. So shout out to Joni Dillon and the work that she's doing in the world with Scott Jackson, because it was.

Through that group that I think at the very same time we connected with you. Joni connected us to you as well. And then someone else you had worked with, I think it was our friends in Austin as well. So there's like three or four situations that were pointing us to you. And that's what I got from working with you. It was this slowing down to actually be able to receive the memories maybe deep in my amygdala from when I was a child. Same with Carrie, so that we could bring in Nova, that Carrie could birth Nova and Carrie could birth Nya in the most sacred way. I think you've done a really good job of explaining where we're at as far as a society and how we look at birth and even how we look at plant medicines. I wonder now, can we turn the lens to the light? Can we bring in the luminosity? Because we're very disconnected. Cesareans are at an all time high. The disconnection of birth, life and death could never really be as high of magnitude as it is now because we're in this quick pace of life where we're just trying to get the result with actually doing the real deep work. Where do we even go from here.

When we course correct so we know what the darkness is because you've shared so deeply about it. How do we course correct a conscious father, a conscious mother, wanting to bring life into the world so that, let's be honest, there doesn't have to be so much suffering and the child doesn't have to do so much work in their life to get over the trauma of their birth that could have been sacred. Where do we go from there? How do you begin that nuanced conversation with your clients and with the world here on the podcast?

Yes. Well, we start with healing our own births. And what really inspired me and I just to. Just to also wrap up that piece about Ayahuasca, the. The primary way that we need to be preparing for. Yeah. If you are considering sitting with that, one of the most powerful medicines on the planet in this lifetime, then you, you ought to really, in the preparation, begin to ask yourself, how was I welcomed into my life? Because our conceptions were our first sexual experiences. And birth is a lifelong event, we mature lifelong. This is a lifelong maturation process. And so if those initial maturation processes were suppressed, then when we go and sit with a medicine like ayahuasca, we've got some big ass expectations on her. And that is why there's so much space for ego inflation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. These are primal wounds. So fast forward, if we're in right relationship with our bodies and from that space, not because someone told us, oh, I did this on the weekend I just went to Costa Rica, whatever, you should do this. That is not ever the right reason to do anything ever. Especially not sacred plant medicine. If it's this deeply derived instinctual knowing. Like when I went to The Amazon At 22, I was in college. Ayahuasca was not the drink of choice, I can guarantee you. And no one was with me on that journey. That was a deeply instinctual journey. And in order to integrate those experiences into our lives. Yeah, we need to go back to the birth. And basically, Luminous birth is actually creating a reality where things like ayahuasca are not necessary. Because it's all about keeping the consciousness intact. From the very beginning of life and the Amazon, I was up close helping with some of the most frontier scientific research on the changes in DNA expression before and after ayahuasca retreats. And all of that is looking at early childhood trauma. We know that our trauma did not begin there. So it's already right out of the gate, limited. So what really inspired me on my path of serving families and going really deep into creating programs that I believed really support women and men as they transform into parents, was recognizing that most of the people that I know, like, if you haven't, if you haven't noticed, the people that take Luminous birth programs are like really conscious, really aware. Like people that are really invested, they've.

Done some work before they get to you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And so I started to ask myself, gosh, these people are spending tens of thousands of dollars on their own personal development and inner healing of trauma. Why then are they getting to the most natural basic life event like birth and having to endure all of the medical interventions that are there, basically going through the whole system that they've worked so hard to liberate themselves from? So now we have a Real serious thing on our hands. I mean, I've always had an ability since a child to communicate with babies both born and unborn. And it's very obvious to me that the consciousness that's coming onto earth right now is really coming on purpose. It's very advanced, it's highly sophisticated. And these beings know why they're coming, they know exactly what they need, and they're choosing us to open the gateways for them. So we are consciously, beautifully conceiving these luminous beings. And then we're going through the full gamut of medical interventions, which is quite tragic because it's a passing on then of all the trauma. So we have to realize that prenatal care has very, very, very little to do with, with urine analysis and blood pressure and weighing and measuring and ultrasounds and all of the things, all of those are distracting us from what is really important, which is dropping into our bodies and peeling off all of the layers so that we can come back into our true essence, our quintessential nature. That to our children are choosing anything in all the conditions and the programs, the imprints, the birth imprints and life imprints, all that shit has to go. You know, they're choosing us for who we are. Our false beliefs about whether or not we're loved, about whether or not we belong, about whether or not we are welcome in this world inform the psychoneuroimmuno endocrine development of our offspring. Spring. There's no separation between the emotional and a spiritual and the physiological. So what I would just say is to finalize that is we need to, we need to harness the luminous nature of birth, right? And it is designed to illuminate everything. You have God consciousness in your body, in your house, in your life. It's illuminating everything, especially the relationship stuff. The parents are the sanctuary for that being. So they're going to eliminate everything. And that is the nature, the design of birth. And if we embrace it and open with a willingness to change, then we just step into claiming the transcendent nature of birth and life.

Listen, I'm going to do my best to, to try to translate with my, my male brain because so much of what I've been open to learning from you and getting guidance from you on has been a recapitulation, a re understanding of what emotion actually is. I know, and we've talked about on this podcast many times and you mentioned it. There's God in your house. There's God in all of us. I think that God actually speaks to us and brings us Energy through electricity or electrical form. You know, the body is 90% plus water, and then it's a conduit for electricity. But where does the electricity actually come from? Like, where is the origin of this electricity? It's energy. It's prana. It's energy in motion, emotion. So, like you said, prenatal care is ripe, very ripe, for a complete overhaul, not just in America, but specifically in.

Any place where these cesareans and the industrial birth process is 50, 60, 70% or more. I wonder if it's true. I'd love to present something to you and you let me know how you feel about this. If electricity in our house is being.

Passed through dirty circuitry, then the parts of our house that need the electricity aren't going to receive it. And if electricity is energy in motion, which essentially that's all that it is. And there's energy in motion, emotion inside of us. If we have core beliefs, core memories that are blocking the conduits, that are blocking the pathways inside of us, we could love our children before they're ever here. We could do the best work to love ourselves. But until we clean our conduits internally, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, we are inherently going to pass that on, just like electricity, because we ourselves haven't done the work to clean the conduit, to clean the self. That's the prenatal care you're really talking about, isn't it?

Yes. I love how you put that. And you know, Josh, here it is. You know this. You are on this most heroic journey in fatherhood, and it has been so stunning to see stand back and watch you and be part of that journey. And I deeply bow, deeply bow to your courage and your commitment and your dedication. Parenthood is the highest tantric path. It. If there is a path to the divine, that is the path. And our work, if we're choosing to bring life into the world, should be around allowing ourselves to be chosen. And I invite my clients to really let that in, especially in the preconception time, especially in the birth. And if you already have small children, you can even start now. Can you let in the magnitude of what it is to be chosen? And if we let ourselves feel that, I know for myself, even in the preconception time, if I let in the fullness of being chosen, I will be weak and weeping on my knees, shaking. That's like someone trying to hand you a torch, and you're like. It's like, whoa, whoa. This is the deepest possible path of intimacy. The more we can receive the love of Our children, the more we can let that love and let that luminosity into us, let it change us, let it break us down. Let it terminate all the old structures and operating systems. And, you know, that's brave. That's great. We're welcoming a new consciousness into the world. We don't know what it is. It hasn't been here yet. We never did know. And so it really requires us. It asks us, they're inviting us. They're saying, please, please, please, trust me. And here is the thing. When we let their love in, they grow, never questioning whether or not they are loved. When we trust them, they grow, never second guessing their trust. If we don't trust them, how can we grow? Humans who trust themselves if we don't trust them or we don't trust ourselves. So, you know, we're architects. We are setting up the humans of the future. And if we want to raise sovereign humans, we must reclaim sovereignty. And therefore we must illuminate all of the destruction that has written our history, has dismantled it. And we can get excited because it's like remembering can happen in a second and all that shit becomes obsolete. And I see it all the time with my clients. You know, I've talked to so many pregnant mamas from Kauai all of 2020. I was attending home births there. And some of the midwives on that island became became aware that I had a gift of working energetically with pregnant mamas in one heard through the grapevine, which I don't think is true at all, that I had a. The gift of bringing on labor. It's not true at all. I don't have that gift. No one has that gift. But what I just, What I, I think what I, what I do is I just. I just be there with the pregnant woman. You know, when you have a pregnant mama. And she has been told this by her midwife and this by her doctor and this by her three friends. And, you know, I had one mother in particular, and I'll share this because it's the experience that's coming to me. She was a triple vbac, which means she had three cesarean sections prior. She's about to give birth to her fourth baby. She has three kids to take care of now. She can't recover for the next six weeks in surgery or post surgery. Sorry. So she's like, I. I cannot go through this major abdominal surgery again. My midwife says, if you know. And now there's. My midwife says I'm 44 weeks. The scans say I'm 44 weeks. And if my midwife comes today, and she says if I don't go into labor today, I must go to the hospital. So you're talking, like, within the medical structure, that's like, one of the most high risk scenarios. You can have triple VBAC. They don't even want to do single VBAC. And also they're claiming that she's 44 weeks, which is highly unlikely.

Can you share for the audience member that doesn't know what a VBAC is?

Oh, yes. It's a vaginal birth after a cesarean section.

Got it.

Yeah. So the VBAC is supposedly, through the medical lens, dangerous because the incision, the scar of the incision has a possibility of rupturing. So triple B back cesarean must happen today. You know, a lot of women have heard this story. There's a rush, there's a pressure, there's a time frame, there's stress. So I all they asked if I would go and see her and do some energy work to get this labor going, because nothing's working. And for anyone listening, there is no such thing as natural induction, okay? Babies come when they're ready, and anything that we do to interfere with that process is not natural. So I, of course, said, well, the honor to sit with this fully blossomed pregnant mama. I mean, if she wants to have me at home. So that's where it started. And I ended up going over. She welcomed me in. All I did was sit on the couch with her and just, hey, sister, how are you doing? And she said, julie, I'm actually doing really good, but I'm beginning to think that I should be worried because everyone around me is worried. And so literally, this is an example. The mother is open and she's porous, and she's taking in all the stress from other people that does not belong to her. So I just listened to her. Oh, you know, the. Also, for any birth keepers out there, if you serve women and families in birth, you must be coherent with your own birth experiences. Otherwise, it's not possible for you to not project that story, mostly unconsciously, into the people that you work with. So, you know, we must leave our stuff at the door. Walk in here clear. And so she said, well, the midwife, when she arrives, you know, she's going to tell me, I must go to the hospital and have this baby today. All I said, josh. And this is one example. There's so many examples like this. All I said was, oh, well, you know, you can pass. So the midwife Came. She really was like, I was there for it. I couldn't believe. Up went up into. In a tip when this woman said, I'm gonna pass. I just can't do it. That evening, she went into labor. I ended up being there for the labor. After she birthed peacefully, breathed her baby out in water, helped her get up onto the bed. I quietly walked into the bathroom at some point, and I heard her say, as I was walking into the bathroom, she was in this state of complete euphoria. And she was just, you know, mamas are just. They're speaking at that point. And she said, all I remember is Victoria saying, I. I have the right to pounce. Was it? And you know that that's powerful. That baby was born covered in Vernix, which means they'd be lucky to be 39 weeks, actually. You know, the Vernix, this white covering that babies are born in, is. Is very essential to their immune immunity, and it's sloughed off in the last week of pregnancy. So if your baby's born covered in Vernix, you know, they came a little early, and if they have none at all, then you know that they probably stayed in longer. So it's very important for us to just wake up to the fact that there is no medical technology that we have that can accurately gauge things like weight and size of your baby. There's no medical technology that we have that can accurately gauge gestation age. And the way in which they're doing it automatically sets up it to be at least two to three weeks off, which is one of the reasons why infant mortality is so high in the US because cesareans are being scheduled at 37, 39 weeks, and babies are being born more at 33, 34 weeks, and they are not able to thrive. So, yeah, this is. This is basic education that we need to get up to par with.

Wow, there's so much there. You know, I. The whole time you were talking, I almost. I almost cried a few times because I was thinking about everything that we've been through, Kerry, Michelle and I, and just how traumatic it was with Nova. And I can go back to these memories that'll be there for my whole life. I mean, I'll probably be like 90 something years old, and I'll remember exactly how this feels. What I'm about to tell you, we went into this in the best way that we could, but we brought our own projections and traumas and our own birth experience into it. Right. And that definitely flavored and colored the experience that sent us to the NICU for 10 days. And I will never forget. I actually had to go through my own healing in the most massive sleep deprivation I've ever been in in my life. 10 days of the NICU is traumatic. 10 days in the NICU trying to fight doctors, trying to get policies removed, signing forms so that Child Protective services came to our door the next day and knocked on our door, this huge football player with tattoos on his arms taking photos of our house. I mean, it is such a mechanistic system that we were in, but I had to see the belly of the beast to know what it was like.

On the outside, to know what this conversation actually is meaningful for, because I had to go into the system itself and see it from the inside and know what it's like to reach out to you for support, to reach out to Alex and Sarah, to reach out to Dr. Nathan Riley and just have all these people helping to guide myself and helping to support Carrie. Like, I would not wish that experience on anyone.

But I'm really grateful that it transpired because the second birth with Nya was so beautiful, it was so luminous. You know, since we're talking about luminosity and luminous birth. But you know what the core difference was? The core difference was I was completely at peace with whatever was going to happen on birth number two. On birth number one, I had fears, I had worries, I had all these things that I was working through come to know now, looking back, it was my own trauma, my own stuff, my own projections, and it all happened divinely. It all happened perfectly. Would I wish it upon someone else or some other family? No, I would not. Is part of this conversation and this podcast helping to shine light that that.

Doesn'T have to be the way.

Of course.

Of course it does.

But the beauty and the power that I saw Carrie Michelle embody, like, truly embody in this birth, it was because I was out of the way. It was because I was just trusting from the other room, holding my son. And when Nya was born, it was like I had this out of body experience, much like you talked about with the car accident where I was floating above the water pool and we were at 9,000ft Victoria in coal Creek, Colorado, outside of Golden, Colorado. And I was watching myself watch her birth Naya. I actually left my body and I saw everything for what it was. And I realized, wow, there is ultimate peace and ultimate power in that space.

When I get out of the way. In other words, when my projections, my fears, and my own birth story and my own just life Crunchiness removes itself from the space of birth. Then whatever story is divinely unfolding in that space, it's going to happen without.

Anything from me, other than me just.

Loving it and holding it and cherishing it. And that, in its own right, was birthed through my own life experience. I don't know that it needed to happen any other way than it did. I want to talk to the families and I want to get your guidance on families that have had a cesarean, because let's be honest, the data shows it's 50% or more.

A lot of these are forced or.

Scheduled or induced with Pitocin and so many other things from your lens and.

Your vantage point in your world of.

Birth, specifically birthing beings, luminously.

How does a VBAC happen? Exactly?

How does a successful VBAC happen?

What are the ingredients and what are the ways of being that? Both mother and father, we obviously give all the credit to the woman because the woman's birthing the baby, but the father has a role too. How does mother and father support having a successful vbac?

It's a beautiful question and I'm so glad you asked because majority of my clients are second or third time births. So they're people who were preparing for an at home, natural, peaceful, blissful birth the first time, but then ended up going through the entire gamut. So medical transfer to the hospital typically becomes a surgical birth. And then we worked together and actually you've mentioned a couple of times, Josh, that I was there for both of your births, but I helped with the healing of Nova's birth and I helped with Nya's birth. So I wasn't part of the preparation for Nova's birth. I mean, with Carrie only December. But everyone who's been through the Transform Into Birth program, which is my prenatal series, has gone on to birth peacefully, naturally, at home, in the comfort of their loved ones. No matter what their history is with birth, no matter how they were born, no matter how many surgical births they've had prior, they go on to birth. And so what is different about these programs? And what are the. Yeah, like you said, what are the things that one needs to do to have that successful feedback or that redemptive birth, or the first time, victorious, luminous birth. The first dimension of awareness that you should bring to it is. Yeah, healing of your own birth. When a woman gives birth, she inevitably re. Experiences. Experiences her own birth. Okay. And birth is the most entheogenic experience available to a human being. It far surpasses any, you know, there's no plant medicine on this planet that can, that can induce such a state. We are entheogenic by nature and that experience is going to bring us all, as women and men, if he's present, into a non ordinary state of consciousness. So there's no escaping that. There's no escaping that. You experience your own birth and pre birth in. And if you don't have someone who's deeply pre and perinatal trained, then it won't be recognized in the room. No one will be able to see on a multi dimensional level what's actually happening in the birth space. So healing your own birth. Yeah, that should be number one. And I love looking at pictures of mamas. I love looking at Carrie's pictures, right. The pictures of her own birth, the pictures of her firstborn and pictures of the second one and the pictures of the second born. I mean, they just bring me to tears sometimes because you then see all the healing that happened for the whole entire family. You see now the siblings come together and that connection is healing. The birth of the older sibling, it's all healing. So a family gets born. The other dimension of prenatal care needs to be focused awareness on the relationship, the parents, the, the couple as to transform. You cannot come out of that birth the same. Either you're transforming from an ordinary human into a parent, or you're transforming from a parent of one to a parent of two, or parent of four to a parent of five.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And your love, the quality of your love is the sanctuary for your children, our children. It is the quality of your connection, of your love that gives our, your children, our children, a sense of safety, of being safe in their family, in their community, in their world. So that should be everything. I mean, what prenatal care program do you know out there that is prioritizing love and relationships? Like this could be a whole other podcast where we would talk about. Yeah, that all birth preparation happens in bed, in your love making. That's where it's all happening, whether you're aware of it or not. It's, it's in, you know, that is where it happens. So and then the third one is. Yeah, in clinging to the consciousness of your unborn or your preconceived baby as a conscious participant in their life from the time of preconception or at least start doing that in the pregnancy. And you know, this is powerful because I'm never directing anything with my clients. I'm never saying you shouldn't have a cesarean, you should birth naturally. When you come into right relationship with life and with birth, which is why I also encourage the healing of our own birth so that we do come back into right relationship life, then we can be humble and honest towards the fact that we don't know how this being needs to be born. Maybe in order for them to successfully deliver their mission in life, they need to come in via a cesarean section. And if the babies, if only the babies, you know, who needed cesarean were being born that way, I'm sure cesarean sections would be under 1% as opposed to whatever they are at some hospitals it's above 60%. So yeah. Include the consciousness of your baby in that story that I told about the Kaua' I murmur. And one of the points I wanted to make there, and I'll just correlate it here now, is that the most advanced and sophisticated technology that we have to gain accurate information about the well being of our babies and our bodies and our pregnancies and our labors and births is in our DNA. It is built inside of us. There's no more advanced technology than that. I see it all the time when I just in a very simple, grounded way, bridge communication between mothers and their babies. And they get, they ask a question, what comes up for you? They say the answer. Everything in their system comes into equilibrium. Their nervous system gets relaxed, their blood pressure, you know, everything regulates. It's very obvious. So when women get that information, whether or not they believe they can get the information, when they get the information, everything in their system comes into a state of relax and equilibrium. So it's this undeniable. Ah, yeah. Total confidence. And the last one is. Yeah. Including the fathers in the prosense. That is such a big topic. Right? Wow. I. Yeah. I can talk to you about what it's like growing up without a father. I did and we, and my father died when, when I was two years old. But I know a whole lot of humans whose dads embodied their flesh, lived in their bodies and didn't die, were not present and were not present for them. And so one of the biggest parts of our healing as a humanity is revering our men. This would not be happening without you. And as women, I mean, that can be very controversial. No, we can't do it without you guys. We were never supposed to. And so, yeah, when we really let that in. Right. Like, yeah, as women we can journey to the heights and plummet to the depths and pull connect with that soul. But you, he, capital H, the man, your partner, whoever he is, he brings Them in, like, without you, none of it is happening. Children need a mom and a dad. They need a masculine figure and a feminine figure, and there's all kinds of reasons that go with it. We just interviewed Dr. Nathan Riley and Dr. Thomas Burney, who is basically the great grandfather of Korean perinatal psychology, shout out to him. He wrote the famed book the Secret Life of Getting a Mother Born Child. And he pointed on this in a live panel that we recently did on fatherhood. He said that there's recent studies now showing how fathers who are present for their children, that they've made direct correlations between much lower rates of ADHD and aggression and all of these things. So, yeah, that's not rocket science. We need you guys there. Our children need you guys there. And your hormones change too, at the time of birth in an essential way. It's an essential part of your maturation as a man. Stepping into fatherhood is the single most unprecedented opportunity you have to become embodied in your purpose as a man. All your strength, all your power is there, and all it requires is your presence and being supported. Also, your wife or your partner cannot hold space and give you all that emotional attention, as she once did when she's growing an entire human being. So, yes, in Transform into Birth, the birth preparation series, which is being reformatted, all the educational components are going into a virtual library and we have an elaborate section for the men. It is awesome. It's incredible.

Oh, this is so good. This is what I needed right before Nova was born. I needed a guidebook and I had some friends send me some books here and there. But having a systematized, easy to digest, well, of information and knowledge that I could actually use would have been so powerful back then. And I want to set the record straight because you had said that you weren't working with us for Nova's birth, that it was mainly for Inaya's birth. What happened was, is you were doing sessions with us, but there was also another energy present. There was also an energy in the free birth world that was present in that time. And I know that all things happen for my growth, for my good. And like you said, when a father really is present for birth, his power.

His strength, his confidence shines through. I think I really needed to go through an experience of, yes, we were working with you, but we weren't.

We weren't working solely with you.

We were also working with someone in the free birth world who she herself is deeply, deeply wounded. And we see this a lot in all industries by the Way. It's not just birth. It's. It's everything.

Yoga.

Look at what's going on in the yoga community where there's so many people that are basically sexually wounding people in that world. We see it in medicine. The healer themselves has to be so clean, so clear in who they are and what they stand for in the world. Therefore, they won't project any of their stuff onto their patients or onto their clients.

And I'm not even going to mention the name of this person, nor their movement, but you and I both know who they are, Victoria, and it caused a rupture, a necessary rupture between Carrie and I. So, yes, that's the record straight. We were working with you, but we weren't working solely with you. We had had some sessions with you. We were diving into this world of exploring our own births, but it was clouded. There was a dark veil that was casted over our family, and it was because this wounded healer who proclaims herself to be healed is actually not healed. And I think there's a really, really big call to arms right now in your world, specifically of birthing, but also in my world of podcasting. Can we be honest? Can we be authentic about our own wounds? Therefore, we won't project those onto our clients, onto my audience, onto other people. It's not just birth. It's every industry that we're seeing this right now, where someone is speaking from a pulpit, but it's so easy for them to shine light on other people. Well, guess what? When you hold a flashlight and you're creating a big movement and you're just shining it on other people, guess what part of you stays dark? The part between your hand and your chest. I would say let's hold up a lantern. Let's hold a lantern up. That way we shine light on our wounding as leaders and healers and coaches and therapists and way showers, so that we're being illuminated as well. Because if I spend my whole life shining light on other people, creating massive movements and wanting to create massive change, but I'm not shining light on me, I may end up in 10 years hurting people that I say I'm serving. And that was the case for Nova's birth. So I want to be very clear about that. We were not working just with you. There was a dark snake energy that was also present in our. In our space. And it happened for my good. I had to bring out Papa Bear. I had to bring out that part of myself where I got very clear on exactly what is my strength.

And what do I believe?

And it pushed me to be a better man. So it happened for our good. But I wonder if you could speak to that. Because the clarity and the conviction that a father must have in order to be fully present in a birth space and support his wife, his lady, it's so important. But there just isn't.

There hasn't been guidebooks, there hasn't been.

Real practical knowledge like you're bringing to the world.

How might this be avoided from another father, a first time father in your experience? Yes, they can go right now, by the way, to joshtrant.com birth you can learn all about the programs that you're coming out with. Victoria, the, the different programs. There's two of them actually I want to speak to. One of them is Transform into Birth and the other one is Luminescence Fertility and Pre Procreation program. Those two programs are@joshtran.com birth I implore.

You guys, please go there, especially if you're a father. Like, I needed this information so badly, but I just didn't know where to find it. I didn't know how to get it. Can you speak to that? Victoria? I know I shared something from the heart there. I'm sure you can feel it. It's palpable. I don't hold any resentment or rage against this person, but I do hold the light of truth to this person. And so how can fathers, first time fathers make the best steps forward to be fully present at birth?

Yeah. Well, first I just want to say, you know, again, if you're a parent, and even for our listeners, if you're a parent, if you think that you will have children one day, recognize that this experience provides maximum opportunity for healing for you to truly get bored. And so be very wise about who you bring into your field during that time. Anything and everything, whatever is present and not present is going to imprint you. Birth is a rite of passage. Any and all of the energies that are present for that time period, imprint your beliefs then about yourself and you move forward when you go on with your life. So, yeah, wandering. This sanctity of life, this sanctity of birth, this experience belongs to you. And there's many people out there doing wonderful things that are positively influencing hundreds and thousands of people. And what we need to get really good at is discerning what is the energy that is right for me in particular when it comes to relationships. Masculine, feminine union. Yeah. Birth provides maximum opportunity to terminate any and all of the trauma that has been this lifetime, all lifetimes like, it's birth that can facilitate that. Look at the birth of. Of n. You guys are not the same. This is a different family, and you guys are integrating all of these uploads and all of it. So, yeah, first of all, I know we're talking about dads now, so dads just recognize. But this is one event in your life that holds the maximum potential to heal any and all trauma, any and all misunderstandings about the masculine or the feminine, to recognizing that. I've been extending deep, deep support to men over the past years because I discovered that one of the ways. One of the most powerful ways I can help women is to help their partners. And I saw how radical that transformed birth outcomes when men were getting the support that they needed so that they could cultivate a capacity for presence so that all of their stuff isn't coming up in the birth room. The factors that influence birth outcomes are predominantly unseen. Okay. So it's all the energies that are present. The ancient midwives and original midwives knew that. They knew to do things to raise the oxytocin room, you know, by making eye contact and creating intimacy with everyone in there. But, yeah, I believe that my support with men has been filling a huge void. That's not my job, but I've been doing it because, you know, men, when they're transforming into fathers, when they're on this pathway in. In a lot of other pathways in life as well, they're not only the initiate, they're having to also be the elder because there aren't enough examples. They're not enough male wise elders. You know, men need to be supported by other men who have walked the path ultimately, ideally elders or ideally. Yeah. At least a man who has children and will and can. Can be present for you as you go through whatever it is that you need to go through in a way that is unjudged. Yeah, that's a big one. I think, for us as women. Yeah, we're lacking elders and wise ones as well, but there's a lot more when it comes to women, we can find them. There's. This is scarce for. For you guys, and not really. That really makes me sad. Like, I don't live in a man's body ultimately. And so I like to be humble to that. Yeah, there's some incredible people out there. David Arle, shout out to David Earle. He wrote the book welcome to Fatherhood or wtf, and he has broken that book down now into a whole online course, and it's fantastic. I've read the book it's, it's brilliant. From the dude zone to the dad zone, it's like really for, for you guys. And yeah, just recognize, I think, you know, the, the first thing that I would do as a man would be to just recognize that your partner, Kaizo, all Universe Girl needs that on every possible level. She's creating life, she's gestating. And so her emotional capacity is not what it once was. She may not be able to listen to you the way she once did. She's taking in so much information on levels that she's not even aware of. There's very obvious changes happening in a pregnant woman, we can all agree, but there's very subtle, nuanced things that she's going through. She is dying and becoming something, someone else. So yeah, being there, being there, being intimate, what makes her feel beautiful and powerful and sensual. Like those are birthing hormones. So yeah, take, transform into birth and go get that support because it's next level. There's everything you need and nothing that you don't need on there.

One of the things I needed the most that I got from you was, I've mentioned it a few times, this slowing down to just be present with what I was feeling. Because you're right. Like when a woman is going through pregnancy and also birth and postpartum, we're not going to get touched as much, we're not going to receive as much chi, as much attention, as much energy as we once did. And I think that can be a strong hit for a lot of men where it may catch them off guard. So I'm going to say that's really important that you mention that. And also that if she's growing the whole universe inside of her, how can I as a man, as a father, hold holds space for the entire universe? It can be a bit daunting at times to even try to conceptualize that if she's got a universe inside of her, how can I just tend to and manage my own universe and then really I'm creating space for hers. Because the more that I would focus, and I found this on what was going on with her and what was she feeling instead of focusing on myself. I mean, it's this lesson we hear about all the time, right? I cannot put on someone else's oxygen mask unless I first am breathing oxygen.

I think it's the same thing for dads in birth. Tend to us tend to our own emotionality, into our own emotional upheavals, into our own lessons and traumas and all these things that Come up. But the coolest part is that we don't have to do it alone. Like, this is what I love about working with you. And by the way, y', all, please go right now. Joshtrend.com forward/birth. I wholeheartedly believe in you, Victoria, in your skill set. Just not only because you touch indigenous wisdom, but also because you have thousands and thousands of hours working with moms, working with dads. You've been in the trenches for so long. The only question I have for you, and I felt this the whole time I've known you, when is your baby coming to the world? When do you feel your own luminous birth happening? When do you guess that that may occur for you?

Yeah. Thank you. I really feel that it's the wisdom of my children that have been guiding so entire path that informed my stewardship of luminous birth. And you can bet that everything that you see of luminous birth has been deeply, deeply, deeply experiential thus far. So I can only begin to imagine where it's going to go when they come in. Yeah, yeah. Preconception can be many years. I feel like it is. Then you sent me to the jungle to excavate all my old that now I'll be excavating until as long as I'm living this body for sure, you know, that have been eliminating all of the shadows. And along the end of 2022, I, you know, for whatever reason it is the way it is, we all have a different story. My story has been even though I knew all my life that I was going to be a mother, I had to choose. I had to sing to it. And for a while I wasn't sure if I was in a mother. Thousands of mothers throughout my lifetime and that be the way that I gave life or if I would be saying yes to mom. And yeah, the end of 2022, my life just. Wow, it's amazing, right? When all of life conspires to freaking put the mirror there in front of you and make. And you know, I feel like there's. There's very few times in our lives where we actually need to make a decision. And yeah, I had a life conspired in a way that gave me a supreme opportunity to choose to be a mother consciously to say yes to that. And since then, wow, has it been accelerated? Wow. Have I realized that my shadow work hadn't even begun? And I feel like this shamanic path, if there is one, has only just started. And I think that, you know, I don't use that word lightly. I Just feel like what it really means is opening ourselves with a willingness to be transformed by life. And that's what I've been doing. And every time I think I know what it's going to look like and how it's going to go, life shows me another way, I can tell you. And we'll re listen to this podcast so you can hear me say those. They are very close. Very, very close. Yeah. Yes.

That's really beautiful. I can feel that. I can feel that for you, because there's just this honoring of the mystery that you so eloquently put forth. And I don't care if it's Mark Tollefson, one of my mentors from the Vision Quest, or Tim Kakorin, my other mentor from the Vision Quest, or many people, teachers, luminous beings that have been on the podcast. You know, it's almost 700 episodes now. And from these 700 conversations or. Or so. You know what always rings true for me about what you're presenting today? It's always, have I lived my own experience about what I teach? Have I had the life experience to be afforded the wisdom that then is worthy of being shared with others? And with you in the trenches you've gone to and just the cavernous layers that you've dove into, it just seems, in my own opinion, so perfect that you would birth luminously yourself, because how else would you ever even understand what these mothers go through?

Right.

You have a. You have an understanding of it now, but your other understanding, once the beings come in, will be so incredible that I can only imagine what luminous birth will be once you birth life into the world yourself. So I just had to say that because it's always been a curiosity for me, and I really loved hearing that for you.

And it's just such a celebration of your path. I could see it unfolding in a way that would be so mysterious that we might talk in a year or two or five or something, and we'll laugh at what we thought it was.

Totally. Yeah. I. I have unwavering trust in them, and I know that when the time is there, yeah, I like to take the planning word out. Right. Like, planning is just another demonstration of our. Our deep mistrust in life. So I feel like, yeah, let's take the planning out of pregnancy. And actually, I think when we come into the stream of fertility consciousness as a whole, then, yeah, we can yield to life, and life happens in its perfect timing. That's a whole thing. I mean, yeah, healing our own birth brings us back into relationship with Timing. Life is always happening at the perfect timing. We had all kinds of timelines put onto us when we were coming into our lives. So, yeah, I'm still working with that and I'm excited for their arrival.

It's. It's fitting that your mother would say to you that whenever you're going through some kind of hard hardship, that just go put your spine against the tree. And for those of y' all watching on Spotify and YouTube right now, Victoria is literally covered with trees behind her. It's beautiful. It's really. It's. So your mother is living through you. We are a living library of our parents and our grandparents and our great greats and probably every being that's ever walked on earth. If you really want to express the oneness or the all. So from that space of oneness and just my own life experience, I'm just grateful for you. I wholeheartedly am. Just asking everyone if you're seeking guidance in the non traditional world, which is really where all tradition happens, then reach out to Victoria. We'll have her contact information in the show Notes. Wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching Victoria, is the question that I've asked myself ever since I was a little boy. I'd love to ask you. Ever since I was small, I was always like, how do I live my life well, how do I. How do I live with vigor and vitality? And how do I thrive in this world? Like, what do I do? Obviously, now I've learned through your guidance and your teaching that a big part of that is birth. It's how I come into the world. Understanding and being at peace and having a relationship with my own birth, a huge part of it. But how would you describe this? Like, how do you yourself define living life well, how would you define wellness in your life?

I would define wellness as an ongoing process of taking steps to get well. So detoxifying the mind, the psyche, and in the body so that you can reattune with your own instinct. We need to revive our instincts. I think we're living well when we are the navigators, when we are consciously stewarding our consciousness so we're not listening or turning to other people to make our decisions, whether that's for physical health or mental health or whatever it is. So just coming into right relationship with our bodies. We are well when we can hear our bodies.

I hear you. I thank you for being here today. We've explored a lot of nuance, and I hope this is one of other podcasts we can do. If people Want to start? Obviously, it's joshtrend.com forward/birth. But where can they talk to you, where can they engage with you and where do they go to learn more about you from this point forward?

Yes, well, all of Luminous Birth, that's being reborn on a lot of fronts. That might be the Victoria trying to get out to go make babies. So yeah, a lot of things are, are reformatting and in a way that is actually going to enable thousands more people to go through this work and to experience this body of wisdom. So you can go to www.lumensbird Earth as well, and I will gift everyone in your audience with a free session one on one, just for this time frame because we are celebrating huge expansion and growth within Luminous Bird.

Wow, that's super generous. Are you sure? Are you sure you want to do that? Okay. First come, first to be served, y'. All. Victoria, from my heart to yours, thank you for guiding us. Thank you for helping in the most beautiful way to be able to bring life into the world. You know, myself and Kerry, Michelle, being a couple of your students, I only recommend or speak about my own life experience because that's the only way I can be in integrity is by actually have gone by having gone through something myself. So yes, y', all, if you are a mother or if you are a father to be or if you want to be a mother or father, please reach out to Victoria. Victoria, from my heart to yours, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for being here. We covered a lot of ground. We couldn't go into everything. So we'll just leave that door open for the future. But is there anything else that wants to be expressed about the realization of birth? And by realizing, I just mean that it is what it is. And so how do we get out of the way of it so it can just breathe itself into the world? What did we miss? What subjects for the future can people do research on? Can we talk about in the future that maybe we didn't have time to talk about today?

There's been so many sages and teachers. Christ himself, you can say, come to teach these teachings of the heart. We talk about it. It's the first developing organ that starts to function in our means. It's not a heart centered life. Heart is the center from the very beginnings of our development. And the teachings of the heart cannot be taught. They must be lived. You know, this, this, the stories of Christ has got to be the most deeply misunderstood, misinterpreted story in the history of stories. And so, yeah, when we start to talk about birth, may we begin to embark on the path of the heart and ask ourselves, what brings us in to the heart? Forgiveness is part of it, but the more we come into our hearts, the more we birth humans who have a maximum capacity for love. And that's what this is.

All right, Put a bookmark in that one. Do more research on that one. That was very profound. I feel like that was a good cliffhanger for our next conversation until we see y' all again. This is Victoria and Josh wishing you both love and wellness. And I say both by the person that you're hopefully birthing into the world and then also the person that you're healing who was birthed. We're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.