Scott Donnell | Beyond Big Pharma: Digitizing Drugs & Choosing How You Feel | Wellness Force

We're literally able to give you the digital imprint of a drug. That's actually what we're doing. If we can give you the effect of caffeine or CBD or neobromine or melatonin without anything in your body, without any drug or pill or substance that might hurt you at the click of a button. Foreign. Scott.

Donald, welcome to Wellness Force, man.

Good to be here.

We're wearing these devices around our neck. We're going to talk about this company called Hap B. Let's start right with that. Why is it a B? Like, why is the B on the device?

Well, we like the. We like bees. It was a good I. So we wanted people to be happier. And we thought about the idea of using the play on words happy. But you can't buy a domain happy.com. that's like $250,000. There's no way we could have done that. So we thought, you know what, let's just make it a really cool bee. And one of my buddies made this logo, and the butt is like a wifi symbol, and then the wing is like an infinity symbol. And it's just so perfect. And it looked. It was the coolest looking bee. And we're like, okay, we got to have the B. So then we thought, let's just play on words and make it happy. So H A P B E E. Hap B. That's our name.

I found out about your tech, actually. It was on Instagram. And then I saw Luke, our buddy Luke story. And then I saw that Dave Asprey was invested. I'm like, hold on, let me take a look. And I was using the relaxing frequency. And actually, this is really cool. It's ultra low radio frequency UL RFE. You guys patented this. You have like 29, 30 patents on your tech.

38 patents, 38 counting.

And he's 35 years old, y'. All. I'm like, we got a story to tell here. So this is like the wellness tech area that. I don't know if you know this, but two years ago, three years ago, when CES was going on, like, pre pandemic, I went on stage, I moderated a few panels with some different wellness tech companies. And the thing that crushed my heart is I was like, you know, these are such great devices. But, like, when I met with the CEOs backstage, they had pretty large bellies and they weren't really embodying their company. And there seemed to be a bit of disconnect. And when I really tuned into it, Scott, like, It seemed like it was more about the money than it was the wellness. And like we're here at my house in the studio. You're healthy, you're a very healthy person. You have a calm nervous system. Let's talk about like, what even got you into this field? Like, how did you get pulled into this frequency modulation, this ulrfe? How did you even find that? Like, what does it mean to you? What's that all about?

About? Well, I, you know, I appreciate you saying that. I love health, love fitness. I kind of one of my life quotes is he who, he who has his health has a thousand dreams. He who does not have his health has only one health. So you think about it that way. It's so true. Because as you get older, people start to break down, right?

You care about, it's all you care about.

You talk to my grandpa, right? Just one of the most incredible guys. He's been getting up at five in the morning for his entire life, takes all his pills. He's 88. He walks a mile and a half, thinks and sends out prayers and love to everyone he's met. That's the kind of guy he is. So the positive, the positivity, the love he has, he's a healthy guy. He's always eating his fruits and vegetables, he's taking all of his pills. He's very active, he's always reading. And I just watch him and I look at the level of health that he still has at that age. And I want that, right? And then I've got other relatives that are not much older than me and they're breaking down and you know, they've enjoyed life in certain ways, but it's short term. And so a lot of what I, you know, all of the businesses that I want to be a part of have to do with whether it's childhood development or mental wellness or development. How can we age? Well, that's kind of the thinking. And it's not about like, I just want to live till I'm 120 in a wheelchair. No, I want to live till I'm 120 feeling like a 50 year old, right. Health span is, is one of my.

Biggest areas of interest instead of longevity.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. And a lot of people don't get that. They're like, why would you want to live that old? That's like a miserable last half of your life. It's like, no, that, that's not. You don't think the way I think. You know, if you Knew what we're seeing in the science community. Regeneration of tissue. There's some. There's some. I'm trying to figure out what I can say.

There's so much to explore legally.

Yeah. I mean, I've seen. I've seen. With one of our partner companies, I've seen them heal a blind mouse. Think of what's going on with CRISPR and genetic work and stem cells. And literally, I've seen them 3D print organs for people that have transplant issues. And those organs work just as well as the regular organ. I've seen in an animal study where the mice were paralyzed from the waist down. And they were given this. Think of it like CRISPR stem cells on steroids. And within seven hours, they were. They were not fully walking again, but they were walking. And, like, obviously, when you deal with the FDA and you deal with medicine, you deal with this stuff. It takes many years for this to get through.

This wasn't something from the Jetsons cartoon. This was real life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have the. I'm blessed to be in this world watching it. The hard part is seeing it not come to the world yet.

Why do you think it's not coming to the world yet? Obviously, hap B. And this technology has come to the world, which probably goes back as far as Tesla. Yeah. And then Einstein and everyone else. But, like, before we get there, why do you think some of these texts and some of these science texts are being held back?

So I have to put the caveat that I say I am very excited about happy getting to the world because this is 18 years. 18 years in the sound like Kanye west song in the making. Right. This has been under wraps. It has been behind the scenes. It. We have been the parent company and all the 15 PhDs and scientists and doctors that invented all this, they were in stealth NDA for over a decade. And part of it was wanting it to get baked, to get it right so that it could start helping the world. Others of it was sort of closed FDA trials to prove efficacy and safety. So I think there is a level with a lot of these new technologies where they have to bake it enough and prove it out enough to be able to get it to market in a way that's acceptable. There's also an issue, you know, with our company. We're literally able to give you the digital imprint of a drug. That's actually what we're doing. So you and I were just doing. I was doing nicotine receptor triggers. I was. Nicotine signal, the focus signal. You were just doing.

I was doing the boost.

Boost. Theobromine.

Yeah. This is like the dark chocolate feeling.

That's right. It's the. It's. It's recorded from theobromine, which is the stimulant in chocolate.

But what do you mean recorded from?

Yeah. Okay, well, now we're getting into the science, and I still want to get.

That answer on why this tech isn't coming. Okay.

I think. I think that some of it, there's a little bit of a blockage going on. Okay. I'll just tell you some of our history. We had almost every big pharma out there come with a price tag. And we said, well, no, we want this to actually go to the world and not be shelved. And what we're doing is probably going to take a lot from some people's pockets. And if we can give you the effect of caffeine or CBD or theobromine or melatonin without anything in your body, without any drug or pill or substance that might hurt you at the click of a button, there's a lot of interest there, as you can imagine. But there's blockages going on because we don't want to be shelved. And these companies are making a lot of money from certain avenues.

So they would just buy the tech, put it on the shelf, wrap it in a bow, and leave it. Like at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where they just boxed everything up and left it there.

Yeah. One of my closest mentors has a needleless shot and it is bought and shelved. Baby. It's a 650 psi. You put it up to your. There's no insertion into the skin. You just basically put up the skin and it goes. You barely. You don't feel anything. And it basically is. The entire shot is in your body without any needle prick. But needles are just like razors and blades, extremely valuable to a lot of people. And so they had really no choice but to shelve it or else be sued into out of existence.

You seem like you're an emotional intelligence Trojan horse in a wellness technology space that got taken over by Silicon Valley, who really just cares about money a lot. Yeah, that's kind of the vibe I get from you.

Yeah.

So this tech.

Yeah.

Like, we could probably do an entire podcast on the theories as to why certain medical and health technologies don't come to market. And I get that y' all can go on Google or DuckDuckGo to look into that, but thank you for sharing that, because I Didn't know your. Your friends. Injection. Needleless injection. Sounds fascinating. Yeah. And this tech is fascinating too. You know, this. This frequency, like, we know that everything. We talk a lot on the show about emotional intelligence. You know, the Hawkins scale. Everything's vibration. So the lowest. The lowest frequency in the world is 20, and it's shame. The highest frequency is enlightenment and love. So right about 200, 250, there's courage. And at that high level of frequency, we're able to accomplish things and connect and run companies and do things. But so many people get stuck in these lower frequenc tendencies that I think this is really cool because we can actually start to quantify emotional intelligence, which is awesome because sometimes it's unquantifiable. Like, how do you feel? Well, I can't really put a number on how I feel, but you guys have kind of done that. So how did you formulate the tech? And there's eight different frequencies now, and this is totally safe. It's like 20 or 30 times less radiation that's emitted from the phone.

It's actually 30,000 times less.

Oh, I'm sorry.

30,000.

Okay. So it's safe.

Yeah, yeah.

So if we're putting a phone in our pocket, we can wear this. Yeah, but unpack that a little bit.

So, yeah, I love that you talk about what this does to your body. Because our cells and our neurons, everything is connected through sound, right? And Einstein said the same thing. He said string theory. Everything's connected at a subatomic level through frequency, through sound. That's how it has to be. I can't prove it yet because my technology of my time isn't there yet. But that's how it has to work. I know it. And our team back in 2003 when they had this crazy idea, which was what if we could digitize a drug? That's the crazy idea. Because if you take drugs, there's a chemical bond, there's a potential side effects. There's toxic toxicological issues, there's addiction problems, there's who God knows what. And it's expensive. If you could digitize it and remove any of the side effects and still give people the. The desired altered state. Right? You take a painkiller, that's an altered state.

Yeah.

You take a stimulant, a hormone, a suppressant, any of that stuff we just had, kava, that is an altered state that we're trying to reach that will help our lives move forward. To engage with people. Right. To think, to focus more, to relax more, to Help you sleep better, to help you meditate better, to help you travel, to help you get a better massage. You know, I was just at the. Got a massage last week, and they asked if they. We could do the CBD oil because it melts your muscles and it's incredibly effective for moving lactic acid out of your muscles. Okay. Like, there's so much practical reasons. If you could digitize a drug. Game over, baby.

Yeah.

Okay, so we had. There was 15 PhDs and doctors that got together. It started with a couple guys, Mike Butters and Dr. Kenneth Ferguson, who invented Cialis. For anyone listening, that's okay. Benefited. You can thank him.

Hopefully that's a last resort for everyone.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

There's natural ways, but it's there.

Yeah. But now think about it. Why he wanted to go into a different space because he wanted to see what if there's a way that you could have benefits and altered states without any of those side effects. You follow the thinking.

Yeah. This is 15 years ago.

Yeah. And many of these early doctors that. That came in, Dr. Victor Levin, all these incredible people had the same thinking. And this is now becoming the thinking of functional medicine all over the world. How do you set this up in a way where we don't have to resort to prescription drugs right away? Right. That should be the priority, which is, hey, there might be a lot of natural ways for you to heal. There might be a lot of ways to change your diet, change your sleep patterns, change your. Your supplements, work on meditation. Let's get some help without resorting to a big pharma prescription drug. So there's a lot of people defecting from the system right now. And that's what the scientists behind this technology all had that same vision. So back in 2003, what happened? Here's the quick story. They found this technology called magnetometer technology. Magnetometer. Magnetometer, however you want to pronounce it. But the Navy uses these propane tanks called magnetometers to listen out into the Pacific in the Atlantic to see where the nuclear subs are.

How does that relate to the dolphins? Because don't they use that? That's sonar.

That's sonar.

That's sonar.

Okay. But. So this is more detecting. Think of it as the world's most powerful microphone. Okay. For detecting magnetic frequencies. So it's like this tiny, precise radar, almost like a seismograph, but it can tell exactly and record how, where and how far and how large these magnetic frequencies are. So people don't know this, but like a few months ago, There was a nuclear Russian sub off the coast of Coronado, and they thought no one knew. We knew because of the magnetometers. Okay. And we got told from one of our contacts, but, yeah, that's what these things are for. And so what Dr. Butters and Dr. Ferguson and their team said was, you know, what if, instead of listening outward, could this technology prove Einstein's idea of everything being connected by sound at a subatomic level? So they thought, let's. Let's listen inside of a drug. Can it do it? So that was what they did. They pooled their money. No business thinking, by the way. This wasn't to become a business. It was just kicks.

This is a passion play.

This is a passion play. This is everybody in our company this way.

These aren't people that, like, quote, need more money. They just need to. They feel they need to serve humanity.

Yeah, they got some money. They're good doctors and scientists. I mean, you invent c. You're not broke, right? So they. But they said, you know, we want to help. And that's how they did it. They got these. A couple of these magnetometers from the company who made them for the Navy, and they started tweaking them. They put Faraday cages around them to block out anything. They worked with liquid helium, which is like the atmosphere of outer space, to make it super, super quiet. Very cold, but very quiet environment inside of these magnetometers. And what they realized was, okay, we now have an environment that's so quiet that we can start to hear a wake, a magnetic wake coming off of a molecule, of a drug. That was the novel change. That was the biggest, incredible miracle of the whole situation. So the first thing they put in there, I think, was like, Bacardi Rum. Just see?

Yeah.

And they saw a reading on the magnetometers.

And this is a sound reading or an electromagnetic reading, or is it the same?

It's. It's very similar.

Okay.

But it's. Think of it as like a. It's reading the electromagnetic pulses and the waves coming off of the molecule.

Yes.

And they're putting it into a WAV file. Believe it or not, it's like a 13 megabyte WAV file. And when I was asked to launch the consumer side of this. Right. So I invested. Ten years ago, one of my relatives found out about them. We wanted to try to help them. So I gave him a lot of money over a decade ago. And so a couple years ago, when they thought, you know, we should do more than just FDA brain cancer, because they Went right into cancer studies. They were like, let's help people with brain tumors and get the signal for chemo. And that's what they've been doing. Amazing results. But that takes a long time, takes over a decade to get through those types of studies. And so a couple years ago, they're like, you know, we could probably use this technology in other ways. And I was like, yeah, trust me, I know exactly what you have to do. Because I'm in the tech space. You know, I got all these other. Other companies and apps and consumer tech products, and I pitched the vision, and they're like, that's awesome. But we don't know how to do that. You do it. I was like, okay, give me a month to get my other companies hired out with good executives. And then here we are. So that's what we did, is they thought, okay, let's record a molecule of certain types of drugs and let's pull it into a wav file. And then immediately let's test it on animals, first, mice, to see if it works. And then we'll do safety tests, and then we'll bring it into humans.

So caffeine, theobromide, nicotine, you actually have. So it's probably some insane lab. I'm visualizing, like, white coats, lots of data. And you actually are measuring the sound that's coming back from the molecule. So, you know, like somewhat of a voltage or an action potential. So you can send that frequency on a modulated basis through a device.

Yeah. So think of, like, these molecules have electrons oscillating in 3D. Right. And we know full well that it's not perfectly recorded. Okay. This is. That's very impossible to do. But we can get, like, a 2D snapshot of these 3D molecules that are oscillating. All these electrons oscillating and throwing off a wake and in. And these molecules, these drug molecules are like, they're solvated molecules. They're in solution. So you're like, nicotine was diluted in propylene glycol, so we can watch it being dissolved and moving. And so that's the recording that we were able to pull off of these signals. My first skeptic, you know, obviously I'm a born question asker. And.

Yeah, me too.

I love skeptic and all these questions. But I, you know, I brought all my buddies who are PhDs in science. I was like, before I wanted to start this, I want to get them to beat it up. And our biggest concern was, how do you get a 2D recording of a 3D molecule, like and then replicate that. How do you know that that's going to work? It's like me trying to take you right now in person and then put you through a camera and make sure you work on the other side of it.

Sure.

And the response was, well, we don't, we don't think we're getting it perfectly. This is all the scientists team, science team said is we don't think we're getting it perfectly. But if you record over a time domain series over a time period, if you're watching a molecule for two minutes and recording the whole thing like a song, you get enough of the structure of that molecule that you can then play back over time. So that's what you're getting. It's not like an immediate. This signal. This signal is playing over time.

Yes, yes.

So it's like a two minute signal. So. And that is actually delivering over time almost like you get still frames in a movie. You have 32 frames a second. That's the same idea. We're giving you all these snapshot frequencies and there's 22 million of them per signal and they're playing back on your body the effect of caffeine, of melatonin, of nicotine, of CBD, those types of things. And we've got 30 more in the labs. And that's the idea is people join. In fact, we're about to launch blends too, so we can get into that a little bit.

That's really cool. Well, let me pull the break because in the lab, how long does it take to actually simulate as close as you can, the effects of caffeine, the effects of theobromide, the effects of cbd. This is very, very complex. So is there a timeline on that? I mean, did it take 15 years? How do you go through that process? We don't have to like hardcore get into the sites. I'm sure we could probably look at a stack of papers of tests that people have done. But how long does that take?

So they did 6,000 recordings of the cancer signal, the chemo. It was Taxol, an off patent chemo drug before they went into the first human tests or animal and human tests. 6,000 recordings. So you can think about, you know, each one might take half an hour. Right. That took years to get because they were dialing it in and trying to study it and figure out like patterns and because you actually can overlap them and start to see similar patterns in these molecules. It's fan it. It's unbelievable. And so that took 6,000 recordings. Now since we've been doing it for so long, within a week we can get a record like a really good recording.

And these signals, the end result is some type of signal that's modulated from an actual substance like caffeine or like dark chocolate. I don't know if you put dark chocolate on a plate.

No, they got theobromine, the stimulant itself, which is.

Yeah, so. So it comes back to the person. The human is like the most biologically close signature to the real thing.

Yeah.

Whatever the real thing might be, whether it's deep sleep or a boost of caffeine, things like that. Like, to me, I'm both grateful and I'm also just like, what, that this tech exists?

Yeah.

But it's really cool because, you know, I've heard Kevin Kelly talk about this. We had Kevin Kelly on the podcast, the founder of Wired magazine.

Yep.

Probably one of the biggest voices in wellness tech in the world.

Yep.

And he was like, technology is the technium, and the technium is consciousness experiencing itself through technology. So it doesn't, it doesn't strike a chord. Too far away from this being an imaginary tool that has been imagined into reality.

That's right.

So this is both like a psychosomatic and a spiritual thing. It's not just like for hardcore propeller hat wearing people or scientists or if you consider yourself to be a dork. I do. I feel like dorks run the world.

Nerd.

But like, who's this for? Is it, is it, quote, for everyone? Are there any special populations where it doesn't work for them?

Yeah, yeah. So that's a great question. So it's, it's starting in the margins, right? The, you know, biohacking and random things like that. But now it's becoming much more functional. Functional medicine, holistic medicine. You know, we're getting doctors left and right. You know, we were just talking about Dr. Gundry and Dr. Japinski. Dr. Amen put it on a few days ago for the first time because he'd heard about us. And so now people in this functional world are saying, you know, no, this is not, this should not be a fringe thing. This needs to become more mainstream. Because it's not. There's no toxicological side effects we've had. We just had a million hours in play, which is crazy to think about. We've only sold 5,000 of these products because we ran out. We're making 25,000 more as we speak. But of those first 5,000, we hit a million hours. There's People using this for a dozen hours a day. Right now they're waking up with the alert signal for caffeine in the morning with their coffee. They're playing focus. They're doing alert and focus nicotine or they relax with the CBD before or after a workout or for travel. They're using melatonin at night under their pillow when they go to sleep for eight hours.

People have a pacemaker.

We have not had issues.

Okay.

Obviously we got to be careful.

Yeah.

If you're pregnant or there's a pacemaker, we're just like, hey, we, you know, we haven't done the two million dollar study on it.

Yeah. I mean, like, I gotta comment on that. I feel like when it comes to anything, all the companies just go, ah, if you're pregnant, don't do it. To kind of cya to cover their ass.

That's kind of it. I gotta cover our ass because I don't. We don't actually know. We have a lot of people that do it with pacemaker, a lot of people that do it that are pregnant. We have people give it to their kids too because they don't want their kids to use drugs or put any drugs in their body. ADHD kids, kids have trouble sleeping, trouble focusing. They swear by even pets. We have a bunch of people who wear this turn on the focus or relax signal or whatever and their pet curls up beside them and just passes out.

Okay, so let's, we're going to go into pets soon. Let's go back into this a little bit because in prep for our conversation, a couple things in media and even on your site and we'll have this in the show notes. So you guys go to the show notes, wellnessforce.com forward/podcast and in, in the show notes you're going to find this study you guys did and it's, it's on covalent and non covalent bonds in the body.

Yep.

Break that down because in my opinion, it's like we have the protein receptors.

Yep.

Those protein receptors get physically changed by a stimuli, whether it's electronic sound or whether it's a supplement. But what is that difference from a scientific level? Because people are looking at this and they're probably like, what?

Yeah.

So if I can't see it, what is it actually doing?

Let's take a. So this just so everyone understands, it's a, it's a coil, just a simple coil, copper coil that's creating a little bit of a white space to drive our signals onto your body. So it's like an egg. It's like this big. 18 inches. Anything on your brain down to your chest, you're getting it.

It's here or it's around the entire head?

It's around the entire head.

So there's wiring in here.

Yep, this is all copper wire. And it's delivering like an 18 inch egg onto your body. And so the receptor sites get triggered. Like you're saying. Right, the protein receptors, there's covalent and non covalent bonds. We cannot do covalent. The non covalent is where we have our sweet spot because that is a free ranging electron exchange. Covalent bonds are like a chemical bond. You have to have the enzyme substrate lock and key. There's got to be something physically, there's to make the protein receptors trigger.

Would that be like a supplement or an ingestible food?

Okay, any food. Got it. Most vitamins, amino builders, those types of things. Like I cannot fill your stomach or give you vita, you know, whatever. A vitamin B necessarily. I can't fill your stomach full of food. But non covalent bonds are where it gets very interesting. This is two thirds of all drugs, by the way. That is there is not the chemical bind. It is electrons that are free ranging between the drug and the cell. And those are what are transferring to cause the protein receptors to change.

You guys can see in the B roll right now on YouTube that Alan put in, like this is the picture of what it looks like, what Scott is actually talking about.

Right.

So keep going.

Yeah, so that's the thinking. That was the whole hypothesis here for our parent company. Emulate Therapeutics is our parent company, by the way, that has.

And this is a Seattle company.

Yep, they're out of Seattle. They are literally in a basement.

And this is military. Military influenced or private sector influenced?

It's private.

It's private.

Yeah. That we were able to get the military technology from the company that made it for the military.

Got it.

But yeah, so they're up in Seattle and their whole thing was predicated on if we could replicate these non covalent bonds. So any like ibuprofen. If you take ibuprofen, it is a non covalent interaction with your protein receptors. It is. It's like a remote control from a distance that flips them on and off. It's an electron exchange. And they believe that what we're recording is literally that that non covalent exchange that's happening because they can see it from the molecule in the labs. And so a non covalent bond is literally like a remote control triggering it From a distance. And so what they're getting is that trigger. And so when it's played onto your body with 22 million data points in the frequency. Right. And we're talking super low, I mean, DC to 20 kilohertz is like, is like our range. Your phone is 500 megahertz, so 30,000 times as much. So we're doing very, very small stuff. But a little change with very precise information is able to make your body start to begin to feel sleepy. On melatonin, alert on caffeine, a nice focusing buzz on the nicotine signals. And we've got tons more coming. That's our model. We got 30 more in the labs.

So from electrical, I don't know if anybody knows this, if you're watching for the first time, but people in the audience have probably heard me talk about this 10 times. I used to be an automotive technician. That was my very first career. I worked on Mercedes Benz. So I'd fix a car with a computer and I would have like a voltmeter and I would, I would learn the voltage potential and what's the resistance in the wiring from the control unit to the sensor. And so I know that if, like something is dirty, if a conduit is dirty.

Yep.

Then the voltage potential is actually going to decrease. There's less of a potential for the, the energy to transfer and it always goes to the negative pole. So if somebody is dirty, and when I say dirty, I mean unhealthy, or maybe they have a lot of toxicity in their body or maybe they have a lot of subcutaneous fat or mesentery fat. Does it lessen the efficacy of this device? Because essentially the egg is what's connecting to their cells on a somatic level. So have you seen, in these millions of hours, are there some people that it's a good fit for and some people that feel it less depending on their constitution?

Yeah, that is, that is a good question. There are a couple things we're starting to see pattern wise. And this, this is fascinating. There's some patterns we're starting to see come out that make it where somebody either feels it right away very strongly, they're very sensitive, or they don't. It takes them five, 10 tries, right, to get the feeling to go. I mean, my, My chief, my CTO, Sid, he. It took him 31 tries to finally start to get this. The CBD relax signal just took him forever. He's like, I can't do it. It's not working.

It's maybe, maybe he has less CB1 and CB2 receptors in his body than the average person.

Yeah, he got the, he got, was able to get the focus nicotine right away. Like, but some people are just different in those ways. If you're, if you feel most of our signals right away, you've done a lot of brain work before. Okay. They usually have dealt with a lot of trauma. Like they've actually dealt with it, not, not experienced it, but actually have, have it moved through their body and they've become much more of a calm, loving, heightened conscious person. Okay. Especially if you're sensitive to your meditations, if you've done muse or EKG work or brain work, if you're somebody who is able to master that or has been just doing that, you'll feel our signals much more, much faster. If there is a trauma buildup, if there's a blockage from trauma that can literally block our, our sensations because people aren't able to connect with their emotions, period. And at the end of the day, we're not creating this metabolic chemical bond. Like, you know, if somebody's got a lot of trauma and they start drinking themselves to death, they'll get it. They'll. They'll die.

Sure.

Because they've got all the metabolic issues, right. They've got all this stuff in their body that's slowly killing them. And when you drink alcohol, the byproduct out of your liver is formaldehyde. Okay. So we're not talking about that, but we, you know, with the non covalent aspects here, we're only giving you like a medium dose of any of this stuff. You can't get drunk or high or passed out or super like caffeine overstimulated. It's, It's a nice ride. Yeah.

What I heard from you was a lot, but one thing that stuck to me when you said people that have trauma, because, you know, there's capital T trauma, physical abuse, sexual abuse, then there's lowercase T trauma, which is like neglect or rough childhoods, which I'm. Gosh, Scott, I feel like most people have some kind of roughness in their childhood.

Yeah.

But I really want to go back to this question of like, when I, when I put on the device from Apollo, it took me a while to feel it. Now theirs is a totally different device and I'd love for you to unpack the difference.

Yeah.

Because this is not something where you're using like the harmonic sound frequency on the wrist.

Right.

You're actually using what type of AC current. Like what, what is this? And how does it actually get into the cell? And then obviously when the device turns off, it leaves the cell. It's not like a dependency thing. So like we've, we've that conversation a little bit. It's a different than a sound frequency modulation.

That's right. So we, whether it's a good or bad thing, we don't know, we kind of get lumped in. To start in the direct stim world, right. All of the direct stimulation type products, you know the, the halo neuro, the Apollo, the Neo rhythm, the alpha stim, all these direct stim shocking you with electronic or pulse or you know, some sort of a frequency, magnetic frequency. That's okay. The, the problem is a lot of those companies, all of those companies are playing one specific thing onto your body that's literally just like a frequency at a. Either a certain level or they're literally shocking your frontal cortex. I've seen these stickers now that you can wear that like shock your frontal cortex to make you more neuroplasticity focused. That's wholly different than what we're doing. We are actually, for us actually, the quieter the better. If we can, if we can create white space and play the quietest signal that's coming from the molecule onto your body, we now have a wide open space to be able to deliver hundreds if not thousands of different modalities to your body. Whether it's something for sleep, something for relaxation, actual muscle relaxation, something for maybe a plant based experience down the line.

Which we've been recording. Psychedelic modulation.

We're looking into that right now. But again, nothing in your body you'd pass a drug test. You turn it off, it's gone. So we have a, by the side note, we have a baseball, professional baseball team that's using this. But we, they don't want us to tell anyone their name.

Why not?

Because they, they want no one to know that they're doing it.

Okay.

Not because they're not proud, but they don't want the competitive advantage to go away. So they're using this.

As long as it's not the Yankees. Keep going.

It's not the Yankees.

I feel like they have the most money in the, the league. Not that I'm a huge sports fan anymore.

Well, they, you don't. They need a lot of money to do this with us.

Yeah.

I wanted this team to win.

Okay, cool. Good.

And they came to us. I was like, okay.

There was, there was a personal interest.

They're not my favorite team.

Okay.

They're, they're top five on My list.

Sweet.

But yeah, so they're using this. Their pitchers love it. They love it pre game. They love it for warm up. They love it for relaxation of the muscles. They all travel on the planes a lot and so they're like, if we can get like relaxation and move blood flow through our body. So there's, there's all these secret things that are happening. But let me compare like Apollo to us real quick. And we love Apollo. We actually, we recommend Apollo. It's a great company. It basically uses haptic feedback to trigger a parasympathetic response of the, of the vagus nerve.

Haptic, meaning movement in some way?

Yeah, that's it. It's just a vibration. Cool. In fact, when you clicked play on the signal earlier and it went.

Yeah, we had to turn these off because when they were on it was creating a bunch of buzzing sound in.

The headset because it's blocking out the other emf.

Yeah.

So there's a little bit of fuzz, but yeah. So Apollo is literally that little haptic chip that we have in here to let you know that the signals has started. That's all Apollo is. It's the same chip, actually. And so they're just using a low dose of that to vibrate at a certain level to trigger that vagus nerve parasympathetic response. Very simple, very effective, but very simple. We are doing something whole, you know, completely different. So whereas they're successful in their own right, triggering that safety feeling and a few other triggers with just a small buzz, we are using, you know, 22 million signals per data points per signal to actually make your cells respond in a very, very specific way. So we're actually looking at appetite suppression, sexual health, you know, if we can help you increase blood flow, that's a huge way.

That's fascinating. I remember two years ago, Scott, I had Tom Bilyeu on the show and he, and he made a company, he partnered with a company called Modius. And it's a device you wear in the head and it was supposed to downregulate the hypothalamus. And I think it was going to reduce ghrelin and increase leptin to make you feel more full. You know, the hunger and the satiety, hormones and, and I always wondered about that because I thought, okay, these, these synergistic feedback loops exist in our physiology for a reason. Because nature so wise. I mean, we're. Yeah, we're trying to, I believe, make science a God. And so for people with that mindset that really Want to mimic nature? I heard you explain it a little bit. Like you're getting as close to the natural things as possible.

Yeah.

Is it, is the, is one of the main benefits of this, like cost savings so that people don't have to buy extra things? Is it maybe like they're addicted to caffeine and they want like another stimuli that's mimicking it but a little bit less chemically dependent? Like, what are some of the benefits that maybe surprised you the most in production of this and also that you've heard back from from clients.

Our biggest use is better sleep. People put it under their pillow for eight hours and their deep REM on their oura ring goes up a lot. So they're going from like the 70s to the 90s or the 60s to the 80s.

Yeah. The data doesn't lie either.

Data doesn't lie. You're asleep. My goodness.

Unless you're lying about the data. But then if you're telling the truth, if you're telling the truth, the data doesn't lie.

Yeah. So that's the big. One of the biggest uses, that's the most used signal as well as helping people get ready for bed. We are adenosine signal. Helps build up adenosine in the body to get you ready to go to sleep. That's. We call it that the bedtime signal. And so people put the. They put around their neck while they're taking off their makeup and brushing their teeth and doing their nighttime routine. And it just gets them so much more in a space. A calm, relaxed, heavy eyes yawning like, ready for bed. And it. And they almost see it too. Not necessarily because the drug, the drug signals, but because of the habit that it forms. Like when I put this around my neck and I turn it on, it helps me, oh, this is the time where I'm going to block out all the other stuff.

There's a behavioral ritual aspect.

Yes. That helps us a lot because people do the same thing with emails. They put this on and it's like their superpower. They put on the nicotine signal or the caffeine signal and they're just going, you know, we have, we have hundreds of people, they're like, I get four hours of work done in one hour with this, with this around my neck. So that's another big one is for work. People put it, you know, a lot of the times at their work desk, they'll throw it on for, you know, doing a sales call or emails or, you know, any presentation. You can turn the light off. And throw it under your shirt so no one sees it if you don't want to. All of our models, though, like the. The Instagram gals, they're all around their forehead. They want to show this off to the world. Everyone's different.

I could see people in, like, the comic world wanting to be like Iron Man. Like, you know where he had the light? Right here.

That is literally how I built it.

Is it?

Yeah, that's. That is my favorite superhero. And we're actually starting a superhero company as we were talking about before this.

Yeah.

But I love that you can put this, like, underneath and literally it shines through your shirt.

Yes. But this is cool. This is cool because this isn't trained. That does look Iron man. If you're watching on YouTube, Scott has now transitioned into his Iron man archetype. But it's cool. I don't think that a lot of people realize, like, this is different than eating a supplement or drinking a supplement. And I know that in my own life, and I've heard many people on the show talk about this. Actually Sean Stevenson from the Model Health show, he was like, you know, you have to modulate your frequency around how you consume supplements and how you. You fast. And so it's never great for a year to eat, sleep, do, and feel and think the same thing. Right. Like, nature abhors a vacuum. And so we have to have some kind of novelty in life because life is novel. So I could see this and I'm curious how you feel. Like, is this something if someone wanted to break a caffeine addiction or if they wanted to break a melatonin addiction? A lot of people get addicted to melatonin. How do you see this being like a bridge of transition and behavior change so that someone can break maybe a deleterious habit. Habit to a substance. I know you're not giving medical advice. I'm sure we have to say that.

Yeah.

But from a non medical perspective, anecdotal and also studies, like, how do you see that unfolding?

So, you know, I'm quick to say this is a really good way to basically hack your mood all throughout the day for whatever you need. But it's not just moods. You know, it's pain is not a mood. You know, like being on discomfort and achiness and sort. That's not a mood necessarily.

Right.

Hunger is not a mood necessarily. This is actually doing what drugs do in a lot of different ways. And so I think one of my. One of my favorite ways that this gets used is people who have Previous addiction. Okay. Gotta be careful, like, labeling this tech as the addiction recovery tech, because it's not. We have thou like thousands and thousands of people. They don't have any addictions. They just really want to cut back on substances that. Or pills or things that they don't want to be addicted to or want to use too much of. Right. Or they do it with it. I have friends who love a good Manhattan. And then they play the happy signal, which is from scotch.

Oh. Does it amplify whatever's going on within with the alcohol or with the A?

Dave Asprey does calf. The caffeine signal with his bulletproof.

How about marijuana? We're not, we're not condoning illegal substances here, y'. All. But if we wanted to use marijuana.

Yeah, I mean, right, if you wanted.

Is there a frequency that's similar to that?

If you turn into a frequency, there's no marijuana.

Exactly.

There's nothing in your body. That's why it's so powerful. Yeah. We got this. The relax and calm signals for you.

And maybe these future psychedelic signals as well, without the psychedelic being ingested.

CBD is right there, and it helps with muscle relaxation. We have a lot of people putting their low back on their work chair when they're working. Yeah.

What do you say to people that are like, scott, if it's not the real thing, then I don't want it. Like, with that mindset. If somebody has that mindset.

Yeah.

When they're like, why is the tech gonna somehow make me feel like I've had a cup of coffee? Like, how would you address that?

Yeah. I mean, we're not trying to get anyone to cut back necessarily. Some people want to replace. Some people want to cut back. Some people want to double the fun. Right. I'm. What. Do whatever you want to do for us. It's an easy, simple way at the click of a button, to help your. To help yourself engage more in the world, to focus more, to be more relaxed, to sleep better, to have a, A nicer morning. Right.

Yeah.

That is the benefit. You know, I, I, I love the taste of whiskey responsibly. I, you know, my wife loves the taste of a good chai. You know, like, we're not telling people to never, like, be a, you know, I don't know, be Amish with, with any substances, but we want them to be able to get something on command that helps them throughout the day. Right. That's what our technology can do. And long term, it's way more than just your morning cup of Coffee. Right. We're talking about appetite, we're talking about soreness and achiness and issues with your body. We're talking about psychedelic work, we're talking about blood flow. Right. We've been talking to so many senior homes about blood circulation. We're actually making a bed form factor right now with chilly sleep to help with sleep. It's literally a mattress topper that has your whole body can have it. You don't have to wear anything around your neck anymore.

Interesting.

Yes. There's a lot we're doing.

Talk to eight sleep as well.

Yes.

Matteo. Franceschi. Franceschetti. I think that's right. Franceschetti. We had him on the show. I have the bed, we have the king size.

I love it.

It's amazing because it does thermoregulation, which for people who don't know, we have these sleep cycles with the rem, the deep sleep, being the most healthy. It's where it cleans the toxins in our brain so that we can recover better. But I could totally always wondered, like, why aren't they putting any kind of PEMF or your technology into a bed? I think it's because there's so many tests and regulations and safety precautions that have to be in place first before you do something like that. But for people that have heard of pemf, you know, I have the higher dose mat here in the studio right on the floor. I love it. Talk to people about the difference between PEMF and your technology. Because this URL feedback, totally different than pemf. At first glance, people might be like, oh, it might be the same thing. It's actually totally different, right? Completely.

Yeah. And it, it kind of goes back a little bit to what I was saying earlier about the Apollo and the other groups. Like PEMF technology is. There's nothing wrong with it. Right. Like it actually helps your body. But again, it's, it's very basic. It's very kind of one off direct stim or a series. Some people build like a series for you. But there's a, there's a whole, there's a complete difference between that and emulating the effects of a drug molecule. Right. You see the main difference.

That's, that's clear.

That's, that's really what we're talking about. And so I don't think PEMF is ever going to be like, right now pem's like, yeah, we can help stimulate, we can help relax you, we can help with these types of things, but we're just going to get so intricate with all the different types of ways that we can affect the body positively, that it's just going to kind of leave them behind. And. And so there. They have been able to kind of roll out the red carpet for us in a lot of ways, but this is just the first product for us. Our goal is to partner. We just found a way to put this in cloth. Now, like a tiny little piece of tape. Not tape, but it feels like a little bit of, like a. It's a mesh tape that goes inside of it. That's very lightweight. You won't see it.

Yeah.

Now we can put this inside of clothing. That's what our mattress topper sheet is going to have.

Check out a company called Hexoskin.

Okay.

I forget the founder's name, but he was on the stage a couple years ago with us at ces.

Okay.

And that is an interesting wearable because it's actually like getting your biometrics from the shirt that you wear. I mean, this is, like, super next level. It's honestly a different lane than what you guys drive in.

Yeah, they're just getting readings on data from the athletes.

You know, they're measuring, like, basketball players heart rate and their HRV through their. Their shirt. But. But for you guys, like, this really is for the person who maybe wants to meditate more, maybe wants to sleep deeper, maybe want more energy, to have more energy, more focus. But none of these things are guaranteed. Like, I'm not going to anyone. This isn't like, you're going to put on this device and your. Your life's problems are going to be solved. How do you formulate that conversation? Like, what are the behavioral and the ancillary things that really help the happy do its thing?

Yeah, we're. We're a tool in the tool belt. It's as simple as that. Right. We. You know, there's. There's no. There's. There's no replacement for good diet, good sleep, good breath work, good spiritual practice.

Well, unless you have an infant, because I haven't been sleeping that much. That's why we had to reschedule this, which. It's perfect timing, but wow. Like, yeah, parents, I feel for you.

I got three young kids, too.

You're a father of three, so, you know, like. And it has been really cool that I never use the other frequencies. I use the sleep.

Yep.

But go back to what you were saying. Like. Like the. The wheel of wellness that surrounds the habit.

That's right. We're just a tool. Like, we're not the catch all. We're not gonna fix everybody's problems. But what we can do is be right there as a perfect assistant for you, like, quickly. Right. If you wanna, like, think of this as like an easier version of sleeping pills and something that helps me with, like, energy in the middle of the day and some of my supplements and some of my coffee or a nice alcohol happy hour feeling or all in one. That's what people really prefer. They're like, okay, I'm not necessarily going cold turkey from everything in my life, but this really helps it be right by my side when I need it. Because there has been a lot of pain points lately where I don't want to have to go to the store and go get this or go to Starbucks and grab that, or go to the, you know, the kitchen and make up something for this. If they can get those benefits, like, right away without anything in their body. And I did save 50,000 calories last year not drinking. Instead of having three whiskeys, I had to have one. And I play the signal. Right.

Great. Your liver probably appreciates you, too.

That's right. So, you know, there's so many other pieces to the health pie.

Yeah.

But what you mentioned earlier with Hexoskin is really interesting because long term, our next stage of the company is coming out this fall. We're gonna be launching blends and partnerships. So Dr. Gundry is going to be doing stuff, and Dr. Drew and Dr. Amen just tried it last week. Chili, Sleep, Dave, Asprey, Jim, like the whole gamut. They're going to launch their own blends, mixtures of our drugs for all of the things that they care about for their audience.

When you say drugs, though, you're talking about signals. Signals.

Yep. No drugs.

Yeah. So they're digital drugs, y'. All.

Digital experiences. So Jim Quick wants to work on it for memory, right. We have. We have methin and cabinets, okay. Like those Cavane molecules, like those signals are in our labs, they're in our library. We have a lot. We have not launched to the world yet. And so that's the next phase of the company is bringing in those partnerships with the right people that they can bring to their audience. Right. And you don't have to subscribe. Right. It's a couple hundred bucks. We're talking like 300 bucks here. And you don't have to subscribe to get all this stuff. You're going to get a couple of signals for life. Whatever you, you know, the couple that you want for life. When we in, like, A couple months, that's the plan. And then people can upgrade if they want to to the membership to get a ton of other stuff. But that's the next stage. And then the next stage after that is starting to work on biosensors. Imagine having your OURA ring track your emotional state because they can't fix it, they can just tell it you where you're at. Yeah, but what if that could trigger a response with your happy right. Imagine having something like hexoskin that is tracking your HRV and your heart rate and can tell when you're anxious. And then say, hey, it's time to give you some something to help relax you. And you're like, oh yeah, I'd love some help right now because I am very stressed or something like that. Oh wow. It looks like it's 10:30 or 11:00 clock at night and you're trying to get a good night's sleep and you're in your room, you're not out at the bar or something with your friends, you're trying to go to sleep and it looks like you're struggling. Can we help you with this signal? So there's two worlds of this new data world. It's direct stem and it's biotracking. And we want to be the bridge. Right. Because knowing the information is half the battle, the other half is fixing it.

Taking action.

Taking action.

Dude, this is why I love this conversation. Nutrisense is a company that comes to mind, you know, with the CGM and so you get this like real time glucose, so you can see. And I learned this from Rob Wolf. His wife would eat, I think it was lentils and her blood sugar would spike so high and then he would eat the same thing and it wouldn't affect him at all the same way. Like you and I, you know, we have these thumbprints and our thumbprints are so unique, you know, your biosignature for you and your fingerprint. No one in the world will ever have that besides you. So we're so different and yet we're treated by a lot of medical and by a lot of just industries as if we're all the same.

Yep.

And I've never agreed with that. And so that's my. I'm right there with you. Like having a device that tracks us is great, but having a device that actually does something for us I think is even greater because the external locus of control for most people is hard to tune into. Like behavior change is hard because there's so many other Factors that cloud people from focusing on the behavior change itself.

That's right.

And so I'm curious how this behavior change conversation has come through for you from your own personal story and also with clients and customers. When you went ipo, I think you had to go to the doctor's office. You were struggling.

Yeah.

And in my notes, I was reading this.

My mental breakdown.

You had a mental breakdown? We were talking about it before we recorded the show and now here we are. But tell us about that, because you're also your own. Like, you eat your own dog food, you're also your own customer.

Oh, yeah. I'm probably one of the top users out of 5,000.

So you've logged thousands of hours at this.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. This thing actually saved my life. Like, I can. Very rarely can you actually say that about one of your things, but. So we were going public last year, about a year ago, and we were listing in the Toronto Exchange, the Venture Exchange. It's just, it was a great way for us. You know, half of our board is in Canada. They had a lot of great connections. We had. Our pubco Financing Group was there to help us get off the ground. And so then we end up doing a listing on the exchange and the eventual goal is, you know, we're doing our next round next month to. For investing, and we're going to be moving over to the New York side of things, hopefully within the year. So that is very stressful. Not a lot of people go through that process. But having a company go from inception to public listing in 18 months is an absolute cluster. Like, it was like my whole body was giving out just from lack of sleep or lack of sleep, not the right nutrients, extreme stress. You know, we had all this crazy, like, timelines and deadlines and, you know, we were trying to make sure we do all the safety studies at the same time as we've got, you know, we. We did a Indiegogo that we were only going to want to sell, like 20 grand worth of stuff just to see how the marketing would work. We sold $500,000 in two days and we had no products in the, in the door. We were like six months away from getting our product. It was crazy. And then, because no one had actually experienced the product yet, but we got these YouTubers who came after us from, like, London with these, like, crazy, like, this is a fraud. This is a scam. These guys are snake oil. They're evil. And no one had ever even tried the product. They're just like, there's no way this is physically possible because they can't see it, right?

Yeah.

And we didn't put our placebo control blinded studies. We've done all those. We're testing it. We're like, hey, this is either alert sleepy or off. You don't know. Here we go. Let's play with 100 times. And those studies weren't on the Kickstarter yet because those were just being written up and finalized. So we just got blasted out there. And those, you know, you could still see those today if you want to have a Fun Time on YouTube for a while. But those guys have never tried it, right? That was. They were just throwing bombs. And so that all together, you mix it all together and you're trying to hit all these goals. I was dying. Like, my body was just giving out. And so one day I was actually right before Dave's. Dave Asprey's podcast and he's one of our investors and a good friend of mine. And beginning of the podcast, I was like, dave, I'm. I'm not doing well. I'm sorry, but I'm just not. And he was like, what's going on? So I just told him all this stuff and like, I literally couldn't read. I couldn't. I couldn't see. It was like blurry. Wasn't sleeping at all. Like, I was like having like a mental breakdown. It felt like, like I wasn't absorbing nutrients anyway, so he's like, okay, I'm just setting you up with like the fix. So he put. I go to 40 years of Zen in January, which was the most unbelievable week, like, of my life. Like, forgiveness, like dealing with so much trauma I didn't even know I had, like, just getting myself to this and you price out. When I walked in. I was not like this before January, like, just. Yeah, we actually stay.

I was talking to you. And for you guys that don't know, we always break bread a little bit gluten free, you know, before we record. And I was just telling Scott, I'm like, you have a really calm presence to you. You know, he wasn't wearing the device or anything. And most people aren't like that. I think most people, you can kind.

Of feel like a. Yeah.

Like they've had too much coffee or something.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, you seem to me like a man who's done some work or the work.

Yeah.

And so when at 40 years of Zen, you probably found all kinds of things that you had to process.

Were you.

So real quick, did you guys record the podcast on the day of when you told him you were suffering. Okay. So then he did.

He's like, like, we're gonna record this anyway unless you tell me no, because I want to help you, and I think it would be a really big value to the audience. And if you're willing, let's do it. And I was like, fine, let's do it.

That's honest.

Yeah, I was.

So then in January, you did 40 years of Zen.

Yeah.

And so how did the HAP be plugged into that equation?

Now 40 years of Zen wants to do their own blends because they saw.

How much power the digital drug blend.

Yep. For their people while they're there. And after. But yeah. So. And then obviously, there's a million other things just with supplements. And I did full blood work, stool, urine sample. I got the whole workup done.

Was your testosterone low?

Yeah, testosterone was super low. I had celiac. Didn't even know what I had. I had a parasite in my gut that was eating me that I had no idea. I was probably from El Salvador on a crazy surfing trip four years ago. I knew something happened there. I just didn't know what, and that was it. And so I had villi sloughing off of my intestines every day because it was just. I was eating the wrong food, and I didn't know about the gluten intolerance and all this stuff. And it was just killing me. I wasn't getting any nutrients. I had no. Not just low. I had no vitamin A, D, B5, and 12, zinc and manganese, like, zero. I didn't even come up on trace minerals. And then my gut bacteria was completely ruined. Like, I. The most interesting thing about me, about that I saw, was that I was unable to. To produce. I'm. I'm blanking on the type of acid that my gut produces.

The hcl.

It's the one that triggers your gob of relaxation. What's the one? There's something that is in your gut. Butyric acid.

Okay.

It was butyric acid. I wasn't able to produce that because I had such bad gut health that the butyric acid is what actually triggers your GABA nervous system to calm you. So I physically was unable to be calmed. Think about that. I was always in this survival, fight or flight mode, and it was just ruining me.

Because your body had to. Because you were literally go, go, go, go, go, go. Which, let's be real, like, most of America's like that.

Yeah.

And then there's certain times in anyone's mission or vision or purpose that maybe for little fractions of time, they're going to suffer. I was just talking with Carrie about this, my partner, like, like, and we were both riffing on this. And in my own life, I felt this. I'm curious how you feel, man. For anyone that has a dream that they really love and they really feel that it's their mission in the world. I have not yet met one person that has not gone through a six month or a six year, some kind of long, arduous, like, building phase where there's a bit of suffering to get your vision and your message out in the world. And then she was like, well, I don't think it has to be that way. And I'm like, I just. I'm open to it not being that way, but I haven't seen from over 400 shows, I haven't had one person sit here and be like, it was all easy. You know, it seems like there's always like a phase of struggle and of stress and there's a biological cost to that. How do you feel about that?

I'm on your side. Sorry, Kelly. I think there. There is just toil and struggle and it's. A lot of it is us evolving. Because if you can learn, like, you have to learn by doing, you have to fail to learn if you like. Everyone knows the trust fund kid who's super smart, who gets good grades without trying, and then all of a sudden he's 25 and an absolute menace to society.

Sure.

Because you've never struggled, you've never toiled, you've never been through it. Right. Irritated oysters make pearls. Right? You've heard that sentence. That is so true. Because if you're going to do something worthwhile, you have to be the person that's doing something worthwhile. And it takes refining. And so everyone that I know and all of my masterminds and all my close mentors, they've been through the ringer. I don't know anyone who hasn't. They have all been through. And they go through them randomly. It gets just. But you shouldn't be terrified of it. You should see it as an ex. Like, you either you either win or you learn. It's not win or lose. You win or you learn. And I, all of my mentors that have all had. They're incredible. I've got 10 really, really close mentors, all amazing men and women. Half of them have been divorced or estranged. Kids are bankrupt or miserable. Nightmares and lawsuits and websites crashing with 10 million people. On, like, you know, five of the 10 of them are multi billionaires that are incredible, incredible people. They've all been through misery and, and. And they've learned so much from it. Their countenance is different when you go through something like that, and it's almost. It's so endearing to watch because I'm like, okay, do I want to just have pain and sign up for pain? No. Like, not willingly. But if I'm in the pursuit of something that's good and something that's right and something that's true and that needs to go to the world to help the world, I'm willing to suffer. I'll go through that pain hoping I come out the other side refined. And I think that's how everyone lives life, man. Yeah, we're all just trying to walk each other home. That's my favorite quote from Joe Polish.

And also there's a book right there called Be Here Now. And at the last part of that book, there it is right there. The lifestyle investor. Yeah. Ram Dass, you know, Be Here Now. So I understand what you're saying, and I wish it was different in a way, but I also accept that it is because we're in a world that's so different from our ancestors. And there's maybe arguments on the other side of wellness tech that say, well, why do we even need stuff like that? Because, you know, cavemen didn't need it back in the day. And I'm like, well, cavemen also died at 40. Right. So that argument's kind of nil. So on a biological level, yeah. We might have maybe only 1% of our DNA that's changed from knuckle dragging, you know, apes.

Right.

But at the same time, like, we're just not in that world anymore. So this I believe, and I think you guys done an amazing job is an answer to the demands of the modern world that are so incredibly different than the previous world. And I'm curious how you make sense of this on a spiritual level and like a legacy level. Like, when you're gone, you know, your three kids, I don't know if you're gonna have more, but your three kids now, and what do you see your legacy being through this? Because it's not just about dollars and cents. It's not just about making cool tech. Like there's a deeper, more spiritual. I don't know if you have a higher power connection or not.

Yep.

But what is that for you?

I'm a Jesus guy, born and raised.

Yeah.

And not just born and Raised, but actually believe it. I was going to be a pastor at one point. And then my theology professor in college was like, you're not a pastor. Go, go. Don't do, don't be a pastor.

Okay?

He said, you're probably going to come back here in 25, 30 years and you're gonna probably run this entire university and I would be honored to work for you. It was the most freeing comment I've ever heard in my life. He literally as a 65 year old, brilliant, you know, world renowned psychologists and theologians telling me this, that I can become a leader in the community, in the business world. And so I saw that as my mission. Okay. Now I love business. I think business because it's such a way to help so many millions of people so quickly.

Yeah.

And so what I've been training in the last 15 years is just mobilizing teams, finding the right entry to the marketplace. I really do think you can do business for good. And two simple goals. Help a billion people and give away a billion dollars. You know, maybe more. More, maybe $10, $10 billion, who knows? But what that does is it gets my thinking to this level up here, right. What is it? What types of things can I do with my time? How can I prioritize and not try to kill myself doing this? But yeah, thinking higher up, thinking 10x or 100x actually not only brings me up to a certain level, but it brings the people around me to another level. Right. It helps, it helps us realize we need more help. It helps us realize we can grow. It helps us realize there's more to do. And I'm not someone who, I'm someone who is simultaneously always hungry and trying to stay content. That is a dichotomy. I actually believe there's spiritual lessons there, but that would be the goal, like a legacy. I would love to be able to have a billion people helped with this, this technology and, and other companies that I'm, I'm doing. But I think this one has, is world impact. World impact. I would love to go to Malawi with a thousand of these things, with a thousand drugs and a click of a button and not have to worry about drugs going bad or governments taking the drugs or how to get them out there with all these shipments to the middle of nowhere. I mean, think about that. That, that that's a future I want to be a part of.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I've been. Too many people think I'm like Elon Musk and Steve Jobs. Like I've heard this way too many Times. And part of me is, like, honored to. They said. But the part of me is like, they're both kind of crazy.

Yeah. Steve Jobs was an. I've heard similar things about Bezos.

Right. I'm like, I want to do it, and I don't want to do it that way.

Please don't go that route.

The problem is my mind works like them.

Right.

Like, I cannot turn it off. The engine's going just like them. We have the exact same setup. But I want to be able to have the emotional, loving side like that is. I feel like I don't have someone I'm striving after who's been like them, but done it in a way where they can actually exhibit good leadership. Like, kind, selfless, loving leadership. That's a very different type of leadership. And so I'm again, trying to run that line. It's a very fine hard line.

But I just heard my son make a little noise out there. We're here at the home studio, and I know you're a father, and so we're all parents. Even if we're not a parent to a child, we're a parent to our purpose. We're a parent to our lives. We're shepherding. As a father or as a mother, however you identify, we're shepherding something. So we may as well enjoy the damn thing. We may as well have fun with it and enjoy it. So I've really enjoyed it. This conversation, man. It's been awesome.

Yeah, me too.

And you guys go to wellnessforce.com HAP.

B H A P B E E. There you go.

Scott gave you a discount. Actually, it's really cool. It's a really good discount. 80 bucks off the starter kit or 200 bucks off the founder kit, which is awesome. Is there anything we missed? We covered a lot of ground from the science, the spirit, the story. Is there anything we missed? Have you been on shows and wanted someone to ask you something that maybe somebody hasn't asked you yet?

Dude, this is. This is up there. I can tell how you. This is your. This is your unique ability. You're very good interviews. And so I. I, man, I think most. Most everything that people want to know, we hit.

Yeah, we did. My show notes are going to be deep, too, so make sure you guys go to the show notes. All the science, all the research. So whether you're, like, the scientific minded or you're the spiritual minded, we got you. It's all going to be there.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think. Yeah, we're excited for the next year. If you're listening to this, in several months from now, we'll get a bunch more signals coming out. Our goal is to launch new blends starting in, like, a couple months, and then just go, go hard and give people so many more experiences. Our goal is to be exponential with how many different types of experiences people can have in the app. So the more we have, the more valuable it is to people. And that's the goal.

Amazing, man. And at the nexus of all this, you know, is like the wellness technology, the financial health, emotional health, spiritual health, mental health, wellness in general, I think sits in the middle, because if we can. If we can have mastery over all these different. What seem bifurcated segments, they're not. They're all truly connected in every way. But what does that even mean to you? You know, if somebody asked you how you define wellness, you know, how do you live your life? Well, what does wellness mean to you?

Wellness to me is. Is basically waking up, and this is a lot of things in one. Waking up every day and being able to do, think, believe, and say what I want to that day and not be restricted. So whether it's going on a walk or hanging out with the people I love. Right. That's wellness. At the end of the day, it's freedom. Wellness is freedom. And that's true in entrepreneurship. That's true with your closest relationships. You know, we just. This sounds crazy, but we just did, like, a people audit in our lives. And are there negative people that are drawing us back and people that we might need to not give as much central focus in our lives, still love them, help them where we can, but not give them that level of intense control that can hurt us. Right. That's wellness. Like, you have to prioritize your what. Who you love, who's dear to you and yourself. And if you can do that in all these different sectors, you're going to live a longer, healthier life.

I love your definition. I've loved your presence. And you strike me as just such a breath of fresh air force, somebody who's involved with tech, like. And I've seen many of them, so.

You got to hear the story real quick. So my friend is B.J. fogg.

Oh, tiny habits.

Tiny habits. Yeah, he's ingenious with me. He's been on our podcast.

Oh, cool.

He's a dear friend. He lives in Hawaii, surfing all the time. That's what I love about him.

Yeah, he.

He was just on the social dilemma on Netflix. Right. And he was. He was wrongfully portrayed because after it talked about how bad Instagram and all these social medias are for people, it cuts to him teaching at Stanford, a bunch of kids about behavior science. And I think. And it was so sad to watch because people don't know bj. He's the nicest human. He's so sweet. He's so kind. He didn't know they were gonna go off and build a $100 billion tech company from his ideas.

Right.

He's got, like, eight of the unicorns all went through his class. All he does, though, is help people hack their behavior. And he wants. He wants good tech. So one of my favorite stamps of approval with Happy was when BJ said, you guys are in the good tech category. People are not addicted and scrolling on their phone with you. You are giving people feelings that help their life. You are helping people with addiction. You're helping people that can't sleep. You're helping people that need to relax, need to focus, need energy. Like, that is a win, win, win across the board. And you're not hooking them on a dopamine hit on a screen. You're literally letting them click play like we did before this.

Yeah.

And then you can just. Just go do your life. He's like, you get the stamp. That's how tech should be.

Okay, well, let's continue that kind of energy and that kind of messaging in the world. So until I see you again, until Scott sees you Again, go to wellnessforce.com hapbe Pick up this, the starter kit or the founder kit. No code. You just literally go to that link and they've created a cool page for us. So until Scott sees you again and I see you again, we're both wishing you love and wellness. Scott, thank you for coming on the show. Show.

My pleasure. Thanks, everybody.