Tapping For TRUTH: Become Your Own Healer | Amy Piper | @WellnessAndWisdom

Eft, tapping. What it really is, is you are tapping on these points. You're verbalizing a concern or an issue in your life, and you're making it neutral. That at its very core. And you're neutralizing a pattern that's not good for you. Maybe a belief system that's not good. Maybe it's just generalized stress and anxiety or a traumatic event that occurred. I've been overwhelmed lately.

I've been overwhelmed lately.

Doing a million things. Doing a million things and going in a million directions.

Going in a million directions.

Everything's happening at once.

Everything's happening at once.

But it's also amazing.

But it's also amazing.

Yeah. Good. How does that feel? If you're yawning, we're excited.

The yawning feels good. Thank you for that.

I mean, we could. Like, if I was doing a session with you, I'd really dig in and we kind of. We'd go into who's judging and kind of like, what. This isn't for the purposes of today, but what I would go after is who and what and what are the situations, and what is that triggering? What pattern? You know, that's where we would go.

But I really. Gosh, I feel like I haven't done that since you and I did that five years ago. So, you know, my intention for this podcast is to give people the practical, but also the spiritual. Both. Both practical and spiritual. Because they're both important.

Yeah. They both say the practical and the magical. That's what I always say. Yep.

Well, we have done an incredible practice, and it's been five years since we connected. And we have this mutual friend, Joe distefano, here in Austin, and he's doing this runga event. I'm sure we're going to incorporate this eft, which you're widely known for.

Well, I know we've. We've talked about it, and I'm just so excited. And, you know, we met here in Venice, here in la. So it's cool, all these connections, you know.

Yeah, we're all connected, including the meridians in the body, which was a lot of the research I was doing before our podcast today.

Yeah.

And I was coming across a lot of different practitioners. You know, your website is Tapping for Truth. We're going to go deep today, Amy, into all the things, all the things that you represent healing in the world in this modality. But a lot of people describe this as emotional acupuncture, which I thought was really fascinating because we're all familiar with, like the needles that go in our body, but when we're tapping. And if you watch the beginning of this, you saw that Amy led me through a little section for myself to calm me based on my own struggles I'm having in my life. Would you describe it the same way? The Emotional Freedom technique. Is it really emotional acupuncture or is it something different from. From your vantage point?

Right. I mean, I think we say that to give people a frame of reference. Because everybody's heard of acupuncture, right? Well, most. I'd say most I'm in California, so. But yes, I think that giving people a frame of reference, like, why am I tapping on myself first? It's like, why do I do that? Right. Okay, great. These are meridian points in the body. People can. Even science people or people that maybe aren't into alternative modalities might say, okay, I believe in the points in the body, and I believe that if I tap on these, I can do something.

I feel something. They exist.

Yeah, yeah. And so I think you start there. And so emotional acupuncture is kind of an easy way to reference that. But really, I mean, I think what it really is, is you are tapping on these points. You're verbalizing a concern or an issue in your life, and you're making it neutral. That at its very core. And you're neutralizing a pattern that's not good for you. Maybe a belief system that's not good. Maybe it's just generalized stress and anxiety or a traumatic event that occurred. It's all the range. But I think it's. Yeah, emotional acupuncture is an easy way to kind of say bringing these things down to neutral. These things that are kind of disrupting your system from an energetic level, like your nervous system. Right. But physically, too, with fight or flight. So depending on the audience I'm talking to, you know, I can make it more spiritual. I can make it more. We can get more physical about it.

We're all the things.

We're all the things, Amy, your show's all the things. Yeah.

It's interesting because I went through. And maybe you can relate to this in your own life and practice. I went through a death and rebirth this year. Have you been through one of those?

So, I mean, yes, definitely. I think when I got on this path six, seven years ago. Sure.

The world you were in before, which we'll talk about here in just a second, I went through a massive rebranding. Rebirth, Death and Rebirth on 222 22, which was like a potent number. I feel like if we were ever going to do a big change in life. 22222 was it. So the podcast went from Wellness Force to Wellness Wisdom. And I changed my teaching model of, you know, mental, physical, emotional, spiritual to mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, financial. So the square became a pentagon. And I'm curious for you, when you use tapping with clients and when you really explore the depths of what they're feeling, what their body's trying to seek relief from, have you changed your teaching model from when you started you, your client work and your practice with eft, or has that foundation of EFT remained the same?

Good questions. I mean, I know that I've evolved and my intuition, you know, as you use it, it's better and better. Like I feel like I can cut through things so quickly now when I start working with someone. But that said, I do think the foundations are the same, rooted in this just powerhouse of a technique, or technique, sorry, plural. So no, that hasn't changed. But I think my ability to work with that person to get to the root quickly has, has evolved for the better, where we can get through things faster. I mean, EFTs works pretty quickly, just in general, that's why people love it. But I think as a practitioner, I've gotten just sharp at getting there fast, if that makes sense.

Sure. Well, let's go to the base and then tell us the evolution from there. So the base of emotional freedom, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, it was a psychiatrist in the 60s who found it by accident. And then another, another emotional intelligence or mental health professional actually put the practicum on it. So tell people how it started. And found by accident, which is pretty cool, wasn't an accident, and then it turned into this worldwide phenomenon for healing.

Totally. Totally. Yeah. So I, years ago, this psychologist, he was just playing around with a client and he was studying. He was a psychologist, but he was a psychiatrist, excuse me, and he was playing around with acupressure points. So he was like, oh, let me just try this with this woman that had some severe water phobia. And so he just played around with tapping kind of randomly on certain points that associated with fear. And she, I mean, it was like, the story goes that it was like instantaneously gone, this phobia. And so from there it was born. But back then, apparently it was a very complicated set of points. So for a certain problem you do this series of points. For another problem you do this series. And it was very complicated. Then enter Gary Craig, who was a Stanford trained engineer turned wellness Guy who totally revamped it and really named it eft. It was called Thought Field Therapy before tft.

I like EFT more. EFT makes more sense. It does. Freedom. We all want freedom. Yeah.

He worked with a bunch of acupuncturists and developed and made it. So the points that I led you through at the beginning of the call.

Yes.

They never change. Whether you're working on ptsd, whether it's a relationship problem, whether you have some sort of phobia, whatever the thing is. So that's like. It's so much easier for the client because they can just kind of get relaxed. A lot of my clients close their eyes while they're tapping. They know the points. They can go inward.

How long do they last? I know we did something brief, but still, it made me yawn. So I know it's working because yawning is a. Is a catharsis. Even if it's micro or macro, we.

Always look for like yawning, eye watering, you know, eye gaze, everything kind of shifting.

Because when I lead my students or I go and to do breath work myself, I must. I can yawn 50 times in one session. And so I'm curious, with EFT, you know, you could do three minutes, five minutes. But what is the average time frame for people? And this is for practitioners, by the way, that are coaches, therapists. This is also for human beings that have trauma, which is essentially all of us, capital T, lowercase T. But how long does that last? Like, what's the range of time where you actually get the benefit? Is it three minutes? Is it an hour? Is it somewhere in between?

Yeah, well, I mean, you could do EFT yourself. And that's what we really teach, or I teach my clients, is you can start your day and do it for three minutes and feel great. So you start with three to five minutes in the morning. If you're overwhelmed or whatever the feeling is in a session. If we're kind of going after a particular problem, we're doing several rounds during that 90 minute session, but we're starting with a certain issue. Like you came to me saying, oh, I feel like I'm just really feeling, you know, the intensity of my sensitivity. We start there and every three to five rounds. So those cycles I took you through, we stop and check in, hey, how are you feeling now? And then they might say, you know what? Now I'm really feeling this. And so it keeps shifting throughout the session and you're just literally peeling back the layers. And it's just, I mean, it just feels kind of like a miracle, really, because it's just this way to keep peeling back, to get to the root of something pretty quickly. So every. I'd say every three to five rounds, I'm stopping and saying, hey, how's that anger now? Let's say it's anger. Hey, how's that resentment? Well, you know what? Now I'm done with the anger. But now I'm really sad.

Great.

Super sad. So it's changing throughout the session.

So as this morphs into. Really, if you look at Hawkins work or anyone in emotional intelligence, the frequencies you go from the lowest emotion, which is shame. I mean, shame is the worst thing we can feel, right? And then you eventually come up around 200, 250, to courage. And then after courage is acceptance and then inspired action. So for people that have heard of EFT tapping, and by the way, I want to make sure, like eft, Emotional Freedom Technique is tapping, and tapping is eft, correct?

Yeah. They can use.

So it's interchangeable. When people are looking at this work, how does it differentiate from EMDR or talk therapy, you know? Or are they just more synergistic?

Yeah, EMDR is a specific. You know, you have to be a. I believe it to be a psychologist, to be trained in it, you have to be a licensed therapist, and you're strictly using the eye gaze. So it's a kind of. I don't want to say reach retraumatization, but you're going through the trauma, but using this eye gaze technique to disengage from it. I do have clients. Some have tried it, some like it, some don't. I've get. I've gotten mixed reviews on it. I personally haven't tried it. But again, it is the same as EFT in a sense that we're trying to neutralize a trauma, and EMDR is using the eye gaze for that, whereas we're using the tapping. Regarding traditional talk therapy, I think it has its place definitely because you can talk through things and get a lot of rational thinking and figure out why you have a problem. But the difference is when my clients come to me, they've often already done talk therapy, I'd say 95% of the time. And they're coming to me saying, I tried this. I did learn a lot, but I'm still having the panic attacks, or I'm still having the trouble in my relationship, or this trauma pattern keeps happening where the EFT comes in. And it's a beautiful compliment to talk therapy, too, if people want to do both is that we're getting after where it's held in the brain. So we're really going after fight or flight and we're going after the limbic brain, that's why we're tapping. So when I say limbic brain, just think emotional brain. Right, where fight or flight is held, where the freeze response is held. So if you're a child and you can't run or fight, you go into freeze. And I'm sure your listeners know this, all of that is stored in the body. Like every time you go into the.

Freeze, the body keeps the score.

Yeah, exactly. So to sum that up, when you tap while talking, you're accessing that non verbal part of the brain. So let's say someone can say to me, hey, I know why I have a panic attack or I know why I keep having this problem, I can't stop it though. Let's say it's an addiction, say it's a phobia, they very well can tell me when it started. This is why keeps happening. It's like, let's go after that part of the brain that doesn't register spoken language. Let's tap and see if we can go after that and neutralize it.

What is that part of the brain? Is it the limbic system? Is it the default mode network? What's going on there?

We talk about the amygdala a lot and just that part of the limbic system where fight or flight fear. A lot of those kind of autonomic responses are that don't respond to spoken language. So you could. I use panic attack a lot as a reference. Just because people understand that a lot. People understand anxiety because they've experienced it in that you could be safe in your home and know you're safe, you're looking around, but your body still goes into the full blown panic attack.

Yes.

You can tell yourself, hey, I'm safe, I'm home, body's still in it. I mean, I've seen this happen. Right. So the person's still in a full blown pain, they know they're okay rationally. But that part of the brain is so activated because of something that happened. Maybe things happened more than once, maybe it was an isolated time. In any event, we want to go back, neutralize that, bring that whole thing down. So bringing the cortisol levels down and accessing that part where this response happened. Right.

We're half beast, half spirit. I talk about makes perfect sense. I talk about this all the time. And I was just, I was recording an interview for Another show yesterday, and I said exactly what you said, but you said it in a very eloquent way with really, the lens of neurology, of what's going on with our axons and dendrites in our brain. We are a machine, Amy. We're a beast. And you're a soul inside of your body, and so am I. We chose to incarnate on Earth at this time. So both of these things. And this is where I find. And I'm curious how you feel about this. In our industry, I guess you could say, of wellness, there are. There are two camps that like to kind of play in the illusion that they're separate or that we're separate. And one camp says, science, science, science, science is a God. And then the other side, without the right awareness, can say, well, actually, all there is is love. And all we need to do is go meditate on the top of a mountain and just, you know, tap all day long and never come down to the 3D world and experience challenges and problems. Where's the middle of that for you? And how does EFT play into that for support?

Yeah. That's so great. That's really funny. I love how you said that. Because we're not monks meditating in a cave, right? That's what my yoga teacher always says we're not. That would be so great and easy, right? Well, no, I don't know if it'd be easy, but. And like, life is. Can be. It's hard, right? I mean, I love life, I love Earth, love being here, but life is. It throws stuff at you. And I think that this tool, and I don't think it's the only tool for sure, I think EFT is amazing. But I also do yoga. I also meditate. You know, whatever your little toolbox is. Yeah, EFT is one of mine, one of my top three. And I think it just works so well when, during the day, life is happening, someone hurts your feelings, something happens, you're triggered. You know, you can tap right then and there and immediately bring your cortisol levels down. So someone who's. Let's say, sciencey, well, they'll go, how does this work? They have a ton of research right now about EFT and the cortisol levels and how just within 10 minutes, it's going down. So you say, okay, that's a real thing. It's a science thing. That's a way I can get through my day when these things happen. And whether that's just being in traffic, whether that's an argument with your spouse, kids, life, everything. Right. So I think it is that idea that we're householders. We're not in the cave or on the mountain, and we need stuff to help us navigate through. I mean, I know I do. At least.

You know, that's an interesting phrase, householder. Where did you pull that from? Is that from India? Householder.

You know, it's funny. That's a big term. The kind of yoga I practice. I mean, I love. I love all forms, but the one that I've trained in is Kundalini Yoga.

Yes.

And so there's this kind of. Well, this phrase. We always say that we're householders. And here's a tool to use every day. You know, you can do a little meditation and do it three minutes. You can do it for an hour or whatever to keep you. Because. And they always say this because we're not isolated on the mountain, in the cave or whatever. So that that word householder comes from that lineage.

That's awesome. Yeah. Because I've heard of, you know, our body is the only place we'll ever live, because it is. It's our house, so we better take care of our house. So I hold my house, literally and figuratively. I walk in my meat suit, which is my house. So I think about all the stimuli that comes at us all the time, Amy. And I'm wondering, what is it about the pairing of obviously being still being facilitated through eft tapping, but also the somatic experience, the physical portion of the eft combined with the intentionality. What's the secret sauce there? In other words, with the blending of the physicality and the somatic experience and also being led through the different points, the meridians, what's actually going on there to make it a synergistic blend?

I have a great handout for this. But each of those points is kind of the end of a meridian pathway, and it relates to different organs in the body, but then also different emotions. So, for example, that point that's right below the breast line, right on the rib cage, that a lot of fear, anger, resentment.

Is that liver? Relative liver.

Exactly.

Okay.

Exactly. So people, you know, say, well, why am I tapping here, there, all of these? And a lot of times I will send clients this so they can see, oh, why am I like. What is that point associated with? Some people don't care. They're like, it works. I don't want to know.

Yeah.

But other people want to know. Oh, what is. Okay, shame is here. Anger, fear, you know, naming the different things and each of those meridian Each of those, excuse me, points is associated with that, a certain meridian pathway.

And so when we access that through physical touch through one of our senses, it is helping to calm the portion of the brain that essentially doesn't use words to feel better. Right. There's no words. You could tell the brain. If the brain is in a trigger, in a loop, you can say anything. But if. If you're not actually addressing it where it lives in the energetic system of the body, then we don't really have a chance to clear it.

Exactly. You said that perfectly. Yes, yes, exactly. So that's why we're pairing. And people say, well, why do you talk then? But, well, you have to verbalize it. Right. We are working with the frontal cortex too, Right. The mind. So, you know, I. Just to give an example, but a lot of my clients come to me and they'll tell me, you're the first person I've said this to. You know, this is the first time I've talked about that I was sexually abused as a kid or you're the second person that's ever known that this happened to me. I think, wow. Well, I am so grateful to be the one here with you, helping you through this. With you. Right. I'm not doing this to them. We're doing it together and just tapping and just saying what happened. So even though this really awful thing happened to me when I was five, I'm working to get through it. Right. And then we're going through and maybe just saying what happened. Maybe you just start there. Then we might go into the emotion, you know, whether that sadness, resentment, anger. So I think that you are talking to access the frontal lobe too. Right. But then you're tapping to get to those, like you said, these meridian. These things we can't even see.

Yeah.

They are so deep. I mean, the meridian system is like, I can't even go there. Right. It's this unseen energy system. But we know it works, you know.

So everyone who's curious, go to joshtrent.com 448 that's our episode number. Amy, I'm gonna get that resource for you about the organs and the location of energy, and we'll put that in our show notes.

It's a great handout. Yeah.

Joshtrent.com 448 so Amy can give that to us. I'm curious for you. With all the past six years plus and everything that even got you to the bulkhead of eft tapping, what was going on with you from an emotional or nervous system perspective that Maybe you were yourself were stuck in fight or flight.

Yeah, mine was. It's funny, I found EFT probably like several years before training in it. And I was a client and someone had just recommended it to me. I was more stuck in a relationship pattern. So I kept having the exact same relationship. Romantic relationship.

Yeah.

It was like the same guy, but a different guy. Right. Over and over. And I thought one day I woke up like, this is wild.

What kind of guy was it? Like emotionally unavailable, bad boy, narcissist or something else.

They would leave very quickly, very suddenly. I mean, everything's perfect. Wake up one day out, and I'm like, yeah, the second or third time, you're going, all right, what. What's going on here? There's something weird going on. So I kind of was seeking out some. I was very sad at this point. This person was someone I thought I was going to marry. And someone said, hey, why don't you try eft? And it just worked so quickly. I dropped the sadness. I figured out why this pattern was happening. And it. That I wouldn't call trauma. You know, there's little T trauma and big T trauma. Right. This was kind of a little T trauma in my life when I was a kid. But when you're younger than seven years, you're super, you know, you're hyper suggestible. So even little things can really get magnified. Right. Like a birth of a.

Even a comment. A parent can say one comment and an imprint. And then you spend your life.

Yeah.

Recovering.

So, you know, maybe having a sibling born. Yeah, yeah, maybe if your mother was happened to. In my life. My mom lost her mom when I was little. And so there was that kind of. I don't want to call it abandonment. I mean, I was loved and cared for. But there was a disconnect for a while there of her loss and, you know, affect us children, any event. So this was too much to get into, but it was showing up in my life and my romantic relationships. And once I did this tapping, I. I think I had, I don't know, two, three sessions. That pattern never repeated again. It was broken. And so it was just like, wow, this is magical. And so over the years, I would reach out to this practitioner as needed. You know, my dad had cancer, my dad passed away, maybe trouble in a relationship. I went to EFT and just. It was just magical in how it would help me, like, neutralize things quickly, get to the root of it, clear it and move forward. And so the story really is that I then my practitioner, who's lovely. She said, why aren't you going into this? You love this so much. I said, I don't know, you're right. And so I flew out to California. I didn't live here at the time, and trained. And from that point forward, it just put me on a trajectory of I came out to LA and just everything happened, you know, I think everything opened and I dropped a lot of probably negative belief systems and negative patterns.

What was the wisdom of what happened when you were younger that came through from eft?

Hmm, you mean going back and kind of healing around?

Yeah. When you were experiencing what had occurred, what was the wisdom you learned from that as an adult practicing eft?

Right. I see what you're saying now that I'm connected and not alone. Right. I think there was a feeling of this, where this kind of abandonment was showing up, was just this feeling of, well, I'm alone. And really, when we do eft, it's really amazing when I'm working with someone, if it's something that happened when you were young. So when I say young, I mean below seven years. There aren't that many beliefs that are formed. It's like six, seven, eight beliefs. It's, I'm unlovable, I'm alone. World is not safe, just to name a few. They're really.

Money doesn't grow on trees.

Yes.

Money's bad, right?

Money is bad. Like, I mean, it isn't like clients are like, wow. I'm like, no, it's really not. You know, it's really. There aren't that many. When you go back to when you're a kid, you know I'm unworthy. Right. What's so special about me? I'm bad. I'm inherently bad or flawed. But, you know, another word to put it, I'm dirty. Okay. If something happened, maybe in the sexual molest realm, so. So you go back and you just find it pretty quickly. What. What was the belief, what was the negative belief that was formed? Now I'm speaking, you know, mostly around trauma that would have happened in the childhood, a parent's divorce. Kids think it's their fault. And even though it's no way their fault, when you're young, your kids internalize things as somehow, I, this is my fault. Right. And it's. It's because their brains, I think, are still in that. They call it like a hypnagogous state before seven years of age. And they just believe certain things. So. Yeah.

Yeah. Things get so deep in the subconscious and I don't care who you follow, any human being that's done any work of research from, from past masters or contemporary masters, they're all saying the same thing with different words. And that is 90% or so of how we show up in the world is subconscious. And I want that to really hit for everyone. It is subconscious. So if the body keeps score and the, and the body is the subconscious mind showing itself to the world. So if I'm carrying extra weight, that's subconscious. If I'm having an eating disorder, that's subconscious. If I'm cutting myself, whatever it is, I mean we could list a lot of things that, that are deleterious to us. They're happening on a deep, deep, deep non visual subconscious storage unit. Can you talk about that and what comes up for clients in that exact realm for eft?

Yeah. Well a lot of times when we're tapping, I say because they'll say, well, why are you saying some of these negative things? I say, don't worry, I'm just talking to your subconscious mind. And, and just to be clear, I'm not making these up. I'm writing down things they're saying.

Yeah.

So we're chatting for a good 20 minutes, got the stuff down. When I repeat it back to them, they'll say I said that, you know, wow. Right. So we are going after the subconscious mind. To your point about I really love working with weight and eft. Right. On either end.

With weight you said.

Uh huh, Weight. Let's say you mentioned weight or you know, weight loss.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you meant like weight on the body. I was visualizing you with a client with like having them put a sandbag on their chest. But you're talking about physical weight, like physical weight.

Let me clarify. Yeah, yes. So they come, I'm sorry, they come to me with weight issues. But. And it's just really amazing to go back and it's just what you said is let's go back and figure out where did this start or excuse me, when.

Yeah.

And what was going on in your life. There's a list of like five, six questions I ask. And you just get a wealth of information of where to begin. Right. And really saying what part of this is emotional weight. Right. Obviously diet, exercise, all that. But I'm saying taking all that out, let's just look at the emotional component and really start there. And it's like you said, there's just a lot of subconscious thoughts which could be I need this way to protect me. This way insulates me from the world or the pain or whatnot. I mean, there's several different reasons. I'm just naming a few.

A breakup or being hurt again or, you know, never again will I let someone do that to me. So I'll put this padding on so they won't get in.

Totally. I mean, it seems like so simple. You think? Really? But it's kind of. Is that very real?

And then they spend relationship. I've seen this so much. I was a trainer for 10 years in gyms, and so many clients would come in and they'd be crushing it with their workouts.

Yeah.

And they'd be eating great, but they wouldn't get any results. And I'm like, what? I was scratching my head, like, what is going on here? And then when I, when I really started to lean my own heart into wellness, I found out about the subconscious and about all these deep seated things that are constantly growing, constantly festering. You can be the smartest person in the world, and I want to know if you see this play out in your clients. You can be a doctor, you could even be a yoga instructor. You could be someone even in the health realm, struggling yourself with some health aspect, but you just haven't uncovered really the well inside of your own subconscious.

Mm. Yeah. And what you've been holding onto whenever. What's really great is when you first. Someone first comes to you and says they have a problem. And let's say it's very surface. Something like, I'm not getting along with my boss. Okay, so we'll take something like that. I'm not like, what happened to you when you were five? You know, we don't. We just start like, I'm chill, right? I'm like, all right, tell me what's wrong. What's, what's going on? Well, and they're complaining, right? I'm writing it all down, what's going on? And we just start there. And then as we're going through it, they're like, you know, this boss reminds me of who, you know who's standing in, right? Is it mom, spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, brother, sister, you name it. And where is this showing up in my life? Right. Why is this, this happening? Maybe they had a boss in the past job that was a problem too. So you're kind of like, it could be isolated, but you are usually looking for a pattern. And, you know, you get people coming to you for something like that. We start there, then we kind of go back. Like, well, has this happened to you before? You know, or back to the weight issue, when was. If it. Let's say it's been a. Maybe a ongoing issue in different parts of their life. When did it start? Did it ever go away? Did you ever not have the problem? So with just some real basic questions, you can kind of figure out what was going on in their life at the time and kind of go from there. But, yeah, people. What people come to you for and then what you end up working on, it's always kind of a fun surprise.

Yeah. It's like, what do people want versus what do you intuitively know that they need as far as relief? Because everyone's seeking relief when they come to eft. I'm sure that's the number one thing I need relief. Correct.

Yeah. Yes. Just from all the stress or anxiety or whatever the thing they're dealing with. Right.

This is an interesting. Go ahead.

What they'll just say to me, like, how do we get here? You know, like, we'll start with something like very. I feel like maybe like a relationship problem. Let's say, oh, my husband this, or, you know, and. All right, so we start there. And it might just be that. And we can tap to take that stress level down for sure. But I'd say more often than not, we kind of get after other stuff that needs to come out in the subconscious. Like you're saying that's been held there.

So the lower level or the somatic. The subconscious and somatic connection is showing up as a terrible marriage or a relationship that you keep attracting. You know, it's the same narcissist guy, or it's the same unemotionally available woman. Whatever it is, it's interesting because I think about, and this might be a question you've never been asked before. When we look at spiritual bypassing of a healing path, can that be caught by eft? In other words, if somebody's really, really good, if they're. If their ego is very strong at having people around them, see, quote, quote, bunny ears, if you're listening in the car, see that they're doing the work, but they're really smart and they're actually using the work, whether it's yoga or eft, to bypass their own healing. Is that possible with eft or will EFT bring that up regardless?

Well, I think. I really believe it does. It will uncover it. I do. And if they're not ready, I probably won't see them again after one session.

Because they will get scared about healing and never come back.

Totally. This doesn't happen a lot, but, yeah, Once in a while I'll get that one off session where it worked or we got into something that they were not ready to deal with and that's fine. You know what, Reach out to me and you know, sometimes six months later they come back, say, hey, I'm ready. Right? So yes, I think it does find it. I don't think you can bypass. If that person is not ready, they might have to come back around when they're ready.

What actually makes someone ready?

Good question. I just think it's a willingness, I think that's all.

Is it from their soul or is it from some other place?

Oh, gosh. Well, those are really good questions. I have to think it's on a soul level of saying, I am so ready to drop this pattern. I mean, I could speak for myself. That was me. I was so tired of it and wanting a healthier relationship that I would do anything. Right. I was like, I'll try anything. So they said, eft. I'm like, I'll do it. I think that. So the readiness, I think is I do not want this pattern anymore or I do not want this trauma anymore. I had a woman that had experienced sexual assault and she was just so tired, you know, years later, still being haunted by that. And she's like, I am just done. So I do, I think it's just. It probably, I would say it is on the soul level of, of just that readiness. And I would say those that aren't ready, I don't. I'm sure maybe they just. It can be scary.

Yeah.

And I think they, their soul does want it, but maybe it just gets really overwhelming. And sometimes when you're really used to a habit or used to a way of being, you're almost afraid to drop.

It because you get something from safe.

Well, yeah. Is it safe to let go of this fear? You know, let's say I'm terrified of men. Let's say that's my thing. And, and I say, well, we're going to get rid of that.

Right?

I mean, I don't say it like, but you know, in my mind I'm thinking, okay, well, they might think, well, no, this is my built in safety mechanism. Or let's say they come to me for weight loss and they say, you know what? I really want to lose this weight. I know it's emotional. I say, great, we start working. And then they realize, gosh, if I lose this weight, I'm going to have to start dating again. Or if I lose this weight, it's a female. I Might attract men. Again, I don't want to attract. Men are not safe. So is there a secondary gain, right, of keeping this weight on? Am I keeping the weight on because I don't want to date? I'm saying that specifically for someone that might say, well, I'll start dating once I lose the 20 pound, or whatever the thing is. Great. Well, if I'm working on that and they are not ready or that's scary, they are going to resist that. Right. So I guess readiness is just allowing the fear to drop. We're allowing the resistance to drop in the readiness for change. Does that make sense?

Perfect. And going through the stages of processing that fear, that trauma, that belief, whatever it is. There ain't no shortcuts, y'.

All.

I'm gonna be straight up with you. I tried to do. I'm 42 this year. I've tried to do the shortcuts so many times, and it turned into long cuts that are actually longer. So I want everyone to really feel what Amy's saying. Yes, we've heard the old adage, the only way out is through. And I think we know that it's some kind of shortcut. It's some kind of soliloquy. We hear the only way out is through. And it's like, we know that on an intellectual level, but on a heart level, the only way out is through is fucking scary.

Yeah. And I think. I love that you brought that up because I think what is nice or really great about EFT is it provides a pretty. A very safe container to do it in, to go through it, and it doesn't have to be long. You are not coming to me or any practitioner for a year for the same problem. You better only need three to five. You know, if it's. I mean, I do have regular clients that come to me for different things. They're not coming to me about the issue with their mom again and again and again. We should be resolving that in a series of a few sessions. Right. But I think the beauty is, is that, yeah, the only. You do have to go through it, but you're providing this way to get rid of it and you're tapping through it to clear it. So. So it doesn't take a long time. It doesn't have to be so painful because, like, you're kind of. You're rapidly peeling back the layers of the anger, of the resentment, of the name, whatever you want to say. So you do have to go through it. But I think it provides a really safe way to feel and Release, if that. If that makes sense. I think some people say, well, I get this a lot. Well, I'm not angry anymore. I'm not angry at my mom anymore. I got over that years ago. Great. We start tapping. It's like, no, they didn't. Right. It's really there, and we go through it, and then they feel on the other side of that so much better.

So it's. I think my advocate inside is saying, what do you mean? Three to five sessions, Amy? That's what my advocate is saying. And then, of course, my heart is like, well, anything is possible if I'm willing to look past the paradox. And I think the paradox is the very thing I want, which is loving connection. Let's say I'm a woman or I'm a man and I'm wanting relationship. The very thing that I want and that my heart desires, I am blocking to keep myself safe. That's the kind of paradox that I'm talking about. How do you get people over that paradox so that it is a faster healing process?

I'm sorry, do you mean if they have resistance to the work or they don't think it's going to work?

Yeah, I was just coming to terms with the paradox myself. Live in real time. That's why I love podcasting, because I'm like. I was feeling that in this moment with all of us here. So the paradox I'm describing is, let's use myself. Okay. Before I met Carrie, I would constantly be in relationships where I would leave that was like, I would leave, I would leave, I would leave, I would leave. Because what I found when I explored a lot of different modalities was I didn't want to end up like my parents. If I stay, I'll end up like my parents. That kind of gut belief. And so with her and with our relationship, I'm here, I'm here no matter what. And my love is always bending, always changing, always, ever evolving. But that paradox where, you know, for a long time, the very thing that I wanted, which was love and connection, was the very thing that I chose to make up a belief about that I couldn't be involved in. So that paradox of I want something, but I'm protecting myself from it, how do you get clients over that hump so that they can go through the quicker process of using eft, Right?

Well, I mean, usually if there's any resistance or like that, I guess. I guess that initial thing of safety, security, and, like, resistance to the change.

Like a closed heart, essentially, totally.

We start there. I Mean, I have people who just come to me, they're like, this isn't going to work. I'm. I want to do it, but I feel like. So I don't even start. I'm not even starting with their issue. I'm going to tap on the resistance first. There's no point in me even getting into, you know, that until we tap on. I have tried everything and I've never lost weight. And I don't think this is going to work either. I don't even know why I'm here. You know, whatever.

You go right to the truth right there.

We do. So, I mean, sometimes you're starting a session I've had, and again, I know I was saying three to five sessions. I hate to promise numbers, but I just say in general, if you're working on a particular issue, you want results. Right? Now, that issue, let's say relationship with mom or dad, whatever.

Yeah.

Then that heals. But then you want to work on you and your spouse. So you do have clients coming back to you, but you're moving into another thing you're not still working on. That first part should be resolved, and then maybe you have other things you want to work on. But for my example of how I said I worked on relationship stuff to clear that pattern, that shouldn't have been some sort of thing that went on for months. I mean, that it was cleared, I think, and probably from what I recall, I think it was three to five sessions. Did I have other things I needed to work on? Absolutely. But then you move into that. Right. But for folks that come to me, like, I've had some people, this is very particularly for any sort of molest assaults in the sexual assault realm. They sometimes we can't even tap on that because they are so terrified just to even go there.

Makes sense.

So our first session, I mean, you're hoping that by the end of it, you might get into something. But I've taken whole sessions just tapping on the fear of going there. I am. I am terrified to open up this box. I have kept this down for so long, and opening it is just going to be an absolute mess. I'm terrified. Right. So we just kind of start in tapping through. For those who are listening, I'm tapping through the points. I've just done that before of like. And then the next session's like, okay, I think I can talk to you about what happened. It would be my mistake as a practitioner if I'm like, we're going to talk about the rape that you had no, they don't even. They don't want to say that word. Right. They wrote it on the intake form. They're like, they don't even want to refer to it. We're just going to dance around it. So that first session, you're sometimes just trying to, like, get them comfortable to talk to you about something that's really painful.

That takes a lot of grace and finesse and skill as a practitioner to not just want to heal somebody right now and want to dig in and get it all done. So what is it about your specific way of practicing EFT with clients that allows you to take. It's from what it sounds like a slow, intuitive approach, but also something that doesn't take years to heal. I find that interesting.

I know I'm laughing right now because I'm like, oh, I think I learned the hard way early on because I was like, I'm going to go after it. I know what the problem is. Right. I could see it. Right?

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, it's all there. Well, yeah, that was the problem, though. If they, if I pushed them. I mean, I'm generally, I'm just not a pushy person in general, so it wasn't that hard. But there was this healer part of me, if you want to call that. I don't even like to really use that word, but, you know, oh, I'm gonna. I know what's wrong. Right. Well, who am I? Right. They need to be ready, and this is on their terms. That's the cool thing about EFT versus, like, maybe if you were going to, like a psychologist or psychiatrist. Psychiatrist, where they're driving the session. The EFT session is driven by the client. So you're only working on what they want to work on. I mean, I can, I do suggest and lead gently, definitely. But if you push something and they're not ready, you will lose that client. So to your, to your point, I think it's just learning to do the dance between. Of a gentle nudge, like, hey, I know you might not be ready to work on this. This is something down the road I would suggest. I know you're not ready today to tell me about. Let's say I'm thinking of this like, like a rape situation. I know you're not ready today, but I would say that eventually down the road it'd be great if we could talk about this. And they just know, okay, great, we're not doing it today. Yeah, great. But I, if I said, oh, I can clear this trauma for you. Right now, they're like, I want to talk to you about it. This is a really bad thing that happened to me.

Yeah, I'm laughing because you learn the hard way.

I learned the hard way.

I'm laughing because I have definitely done that myself, whether it's with. Whether it's with myself or my friends or even clients, too. And, you know, I see this in Breathwork a lot. I'm curious how you think this applies to EFT and to your work, where when people come in, it's like the fresh kind of rookie instructors or the rookie practitioners, they'll just be like, we're gonna heal everything. We're gonna heal everyone. You know, and what I love about yours, and it reminds me, we'll link this in our show notes, too. And we're also gonna talk about some of your trainings. I know you're gonna be doing those, I think, again this year, right? Your trainings.

I am. Okay. Yeah, we'll definitely have.

We'll have time to talk about those. But I wanna talk about this. This, what you're doing. It really feels like systematic desensitization, which is like this psychological term. You're getting someone for an example that has a fear of an elevator. And I heard Jordan Peterson talk about this. I integrated it into my Breathe program. And I thought, okay, this is beautiful. The last thing you want to do with somebody scared of an elevator is throw them into an elevator. No, that is terrible. And like you were saying with your EFT clients, you're not going to go right to the sexual trauma session. One moment, one. That's not how it works. Can you unpack that just a little bit more so we can get a little more granular on this systematic desensitization where you're really taking one step slowly, intuitively at a time towards the trauma or towards the fear.

Right. I mean, I think, oh, gosh, there was so much there I was thinking about. Yeah. I think laughing because my own approach in my life whenever I've had an issue is to go after it full force. Right? I'm gonna find the thing. And I think it's the balance of knowing not everybody wants to do it that way. Right. I'm like, I mean, think about living in la. It's like a playground for healers, right? And I think a lot of them are.

A lot of them are wounded. They're wounded, and they're teaching people how to heal their wounds, but they're not healed themselves. Anyways, totally different podcast.

So I think. I know we could talk about that for hours. But I do think for me, I've always kind of been full of force in my own. When I see an issue that I'm having or a pattern, I'm like, oh, I do want it. So that kind of like, yes, I'm in. I will do the thing. Yeah, but. And that's been just such a journey of learning is that everybody's on their own timeline, right? So I think knowing that. But how to unpack it? Oh, gosh, it's just so different with every client. You know, some of them are really full force. They're just like. Like we're talking about. We are. And they want to go after. And they're not afraid. I find that other people will use language that distances the problem. Well, I have this wound. They'll say to me, right from when I was a child, and I'll say, oh, okay, well, can you tell me about that? You know, and they'll use language that's this kind of, I guess the words esoteric or kind of like New Agey. Sorry, that was the word I wanted to. Where they distance themselves. And I'll be like, well, can we just get after what the thing. Are you mad? Are you resent? Are you. Do you have shame? You know what is. So I think I try to kind of deconstruct it first. If they're trying to distance the thing from this detached way. And so I really respond to how they're talking. How are they telling me about it? Is there resistance? If. If their shame. I start right there. We are not going anywhere until that's cleared. Right? Because that's that real low level vibration. You really can't get to anything else until you clear that out. So I think it just. I listened to them. I see where they're at their readiness, and then I just start there. And really, it's such a miracle. Even when I'm like, oh, God, what are we going to do? I'm not sure where to start. You know, I just start tapping on what they're telling me. That's the amazing thing. I'm sitting here writing down and then adding in, right. I am using my intuition, but I'm really using their words. And they'll be like, oh, you're so good. And I'm like, I'm actually just repeating back what you told me. You know, I mean, I am, I am, but so I think just to unpack it. It's, it's, it's just. It naturally works to peel back layers so magically that it it just really unfolds for you in the session. But I think it's first seeing where.

Your client is, that's powerful. So learning. For every single emotional intelligence practitioner or just human being that wants to go deeper into this work, obviously you can go to tappingfortruth.com that's Amy's website, and just contact her. But the trainings, this is really cool because a lot of people, especially here in Austin, Louisiana, Chicago, all the big cities, right? Yoga instructors or life coaches or just honestly, if you're a coach of any kind, straight up, and you work with humans, which is hopefully you're not, you know, trying to make a dog run a business. Hopefully you're just like a human working with humans because. And I'm sure even animals could benefit from eft. I don't know. Do animals do eft?

Is that. It's kind of hilarious. You can actually tap for your animal, can you? It's called surrogate tapping.

Okay.

This is a whole thing, but that's.

A whole different thing.

And you can tap for babies too. You imagine the baby and you tap as if you are the infant or toddler. I do work with children quite young once they can start tapping on themselves. But if it's a baby or toddler, you can actually tap energetically for them.

Tell us about the trainings because we had talked about this and whatever feels good for you. Actually, we haven't talked about it, so here we are talking about it on the show. I know you wanted to incentivize people to take the program, so I'll just say code Josh and then you and I will figure out later what works best for you. As far as people getting a discount or people getting something really cool exclusive.

Because they were happy to do that. Yeah, I was just setting up the dates. I am doing an in person, excuse me, an online over zoom training in June and then I am going to do it an in person in Ojai in September.

Okay.

So I am doing in persons there. There's a lovely studio in Ojai for those of you don't know. It's about an hour and a half from la, north of la, but I am doing an online one in June. I think, you know, that really helps people from all over be able to come and not have the cost of flying and such. So what? The trainings are great for just anyone who wants to use it in their lives or with their families and friends. And then obviously too, if they want to add it to their healing practice. I think it's for everyone. And what was the other question? Let's see, what would they learn from it? Is that what you'd like to know?

Well, who is it really for? So right now, if you're interested in this, if you've enjoyed, because I've so enjoyed this, I mean, it's been five years since we connected you, you really walk your talk, you show up grounded, you show up educated, intelligent, really able to go anywhere in the conversation. And that's how I know that someone's really a master at what they do. EFT can be fairly complicated if you haven't practiced it a lot. EFT from a master can be really simple because essentially it's just what you're showing through your experience. So the reason I'm saying that is because I don't know any other EFT practitioners that I would want to interview on the podcast. I really haven't talked about it at all. So I think about your, your level one, your Level two. If someone is here with us and they're feeling inspired, we'll link this right down below joshtrent.com tapping and that'll give people all the access to your programs they can sign up for the in person or the online. What are they actually going to learn? I mean, obviously they'll learn the introduction and the basics, but in level two, that's for the practitioners.

Well, it's for both. It's for everyone. I just like to mention too, for people that were interested in just talking to me and wanting to understand more, whether or not to work together or train. I do have complimentary consults too, and that's easy to book an appointment online with me if people have questions. So, but the trainings, yeah, I, I love it because they're so in depth. You think, well, how could this training be like four days, Level one, two days and level two, two days. It's level one. We cover, we do cover all the basics, but what I love about this training is that we really go into why are we doing this? We go into the brain and kind of the research behind why we tap. So we're just doing that and then we get into the tapping points and going through the basic recipe of tapping. So, so you can leave level one knowing how to tap. We do cover trauma in the first level, which is great. So, you know, okay, if I know someone, let's say someone had a car accident a few weeks ago, you would be able to tap with them. And so that just in level one, you're getting that. Level two, what I love about it is we go into the belief systems and the patterns and so many people are surprised at. So just for yourself to know, I had no idea. Some of the idea beliefs I was carrying around prosperity and money and self worth until I took the training. And you're going through these beliefs and rating them and going, oh my God, I can't believe I think these things. Right. So I think level two is so interesting because that's where we go into the pattern that the patterning and the belief system work and really getting after. And that's such the bulk of eft. It really is the heavyweight of. Even if you didn't have a trauma, you know what, what kind of patterns are in my life? If you did have a trauma, how is that reoccurring? How is that. That thing. It's still going in my life that what I might say operating system is still running. So I think that's really beautiful about level two. But people just, some people just want to take the first one just to get the base knowledge. But you leave being able to work with people. So it's really great.

We only have a couple minutes. In the last two minutes, I just want to share one thing. Like I am definitely in a space in my life right now where I am exploring whatever I feel called to explore so that I can gain more wisdom. That's why I renamed the podcast. That was my death and rebirth. And one thing that I've been reflecting on, which is a question I always ask every guest at the end of every show, but this one's really specific for you and I. The, the road you've taken to get here, going through your own emotional inventory, doing the practices, working with clients. How do you define wellness? In other words, what does it mean to live your life?

Well, that's a good one. Well, I. Well, especially because I am working with people, I absolutely have to take care of myself. Right. And I think what was nice about going into EFT had already been a client for so many years. I continue to do it with, you know, I swap with other practitioners. So wellness, I think it's. It's so much bigger than just like, you know, eating well and things like that. I think it's really taking care of yourself and taking care of it to clear anything that has happened to you in your life that was traumatic and both everyday stress. Right. And to stay grounded. I think I take that very seriously. I'm human life happens constantly. And so I think it's taking care of your nervous system regularly. I mean, every day Regularly and staying. I mean, people use the word grounded so much, but I really do think, especially living here in la, I mean, you can kind of get swept away and I think with all the energy. So. Absolutely. Having a daily practice to ground and keep your feet on earth, because it's. And then navigate through. So I think whatever that is for you, wellness, it can be so much in there. It's overwhelming. Especially, I'm sure, in Austin because there's all these choices. So for me, it was, can I narrow this down and pick my top three? So for me, that's eft. I do get acupuncture regularly, and then it's the Kundalini yoga. So I think it was about maybe not. I mean, there is so much here.

Sure.

And it got overwhelming. When I first moved, I said, all right, let me narrow down my daily practice. Not that I won't go do breath work or I don't go and do these awesome things, but can I have a course that. That's what I do every day. That's kind of the. I think that's where the magic is for me. Was. Was. Was narrowing it, picking my top three and then going from there.

That was wise. Thank you. I feel that. And I know that sometimes in my own life, I've felt like too many choices, an overwhelming bevy of choices can actually force me, if I'm not aware of, to choose, not to choose anything and to stay stuck. So that was beautiful. Like, having three things that you can actually work on embodying is huge. Amy, thank you for this. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed the spaces we went in the conversation. It was a different podcast about tapping, you know, and obviously if you came in and you fast forwarded or if you're listening to this now, go to the beginning. We did a small practice so you can see the beginning pieces of what tapping looks like again. Joshtrant.com tapping. You can go to tappingfortruth.com and reach out to Amy if you need anything. Amy, we covered a lot of ground. Do you feel like we missed anything as parting guidance for you to say as we say goodbye?

Oh, gosh, no. You were very thorough. We really dove in. No, I think we covered everything. It was beautiful.

Where can people find you besides your website? Are you active on the social or are you doing Kundalini instead?

No, my. My Instagram is also tapping for truth. And then the website, tappingfortruth.com that's how they can find me.

Okay, well, you guys know what to do until we see you again next week. Just go to wellnessforce.com community where we're talking more about this and Amy and tapping. Amy, thank you for the work you do in the world. Thank you for cutting through all the BS and tapping for truth.

Yes, thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

Okay, you guys, until amen I see you again. We'll talk to you soon. I'm wishing you love and wellness, Sa.