The Power of Saying No | Productivity Lifehacks | Jeff Sanders

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Wellness Force Radio Episode 115 with the Productivity master and author Jeff Sanders.

We follow these patterns of just saying yes and agreeing to life as it is, as opposed to asking ourselves, how could I live differently? And I find that once you realize that you control your own time, you control what you let into your life, all of a sudden you can shift gears completely and start to be more proactive in how your time is scheduled. And once you've reached that point, your day becomes your own and you can control so many more aspects of it, and the progress just jumps right out. For me, health and wellness is what makes productivity possible. Energy is what allows you to be able to continue to work all day long. And so if you want to be productive and get stuff done, you have to be healthy to do so. And so if anything, health really is the number one goal because it's what makes everything else even possible at all.

What's up, my friend? It's your host, Josh Trent. And welcome back to another episode for your weekly access to global experts in all things wellness, behavior change and new technologies. In this podcast together, we'll discover the connections between our emotions and healthy habits and to live life well and enjoy the process. Support for this show is brought to you by Perfect Supplements. Passionate about non GMO pesticide free real food supplements that fuel us for the wellness journey. If you've been looking for a company to trust with your nutrition, click over to perfectsupplements.com and use code WELLNESSFORCE to save 10% off your entire order. What's up my friends? This is the second show with Jeff Sanders. He was on the show about a year and a half ago and he talks so much about productivity, how that relates to our wellness. So today on the podcast, super excited to uncover some of the things Jeff's been learning in his productivity courses around decision fatigue and owning our day. Jeff is going to teach us there is so much more importance around time management than truly meets the eye. In fact, this productivity and good time management, they're really the key to unlocking greater health and wellness. Because when we have our energy, focus and a clear mind, I mean any goal can be accomplished. So if you Found yourself juggling responsibilities and trying to be productive and work on your wellness journey. Whether it's letting go of weight or getting more energy in your life. This is going to be an awesome show for you where we're exploring this question of what would happen in our lives if we said no. If we owned our power and decided to say no to something that doesn't allow us to take our time back into our hands. How do we become liberated and and liberate ourselves from the unworthy distractions that really pull us away from the direction we wanna move? Anyways, let's jump in with Jeff Sanders. Jeff Sanders is a public speaker, productivity coach, bestselling author, and host of the 5:00am Miracle podcast. Jeff, welcome back to Wellness Force Radio.

Well, thank you, Josh. I'm glad to be back here again.

And we're talking about not just getting stuff done today. I almost feel like we're about to drop into a productivity masterclass. How this relates to our wellness. I mean, Jeff overwhelm and it's probably one of the three or five top reasons why clients I work with feel they don't have the capacity or the energy to achieve their wellness goals. But you know, to have this life by design, day by day, week by week, we must have a productivity system to let some steam out of the pressure cooker and really yield more time to spend on our health and wellness. I'm curious if you can fill in the gaps for people that might not have heard our first episode a year and three months ago. Just give us a really brief, quick snapshot of how you came to be such a thought leader in productivity.

That's a great question. I think that ultimately it was a curiosity for me. I wanted to know more about myself and how kind of I could become a better version of myself. And so this is probably, what, years ago, maybe seven or eight years ago, I decided to go on a big personal growth journey and read a ton of books and start to take care of myself better. And that led to me ultimately running a bunch of marathons because I just fell in love with running. And through that process I decided to figure out, well, how can I incorporate, you know, all the running that I'm doing with my work that I'm doing and, and kind of organizing my time more effectively. And then I figured out in that process that I really loved productivity and I loved scheduling things and being more effective with my time so that I had the time to do the things that I love to do. And that was really my motivation. Very self centered in that sense, I wanted to make time for myself. And then I realized I wanted to teach that material. And so that's when I turned it into a blog and a podcast and a book and everything else I now do. So really, it was just a question of how can I scratch my own itch and then teach those lessons that I've learned?

Oh, that is such a simple yet powerful sentence. And I feel like a lot of people in health and wellness or productivity, whatever you might want to say, it's all about getting our lives to be one step better every single day, or a better version of ourselves. Everybody has their own story. Jeff, I'm curious. Seven years ago, did you know that you'd be interviewing Deepak Chopra on your podcast and getting all these downloads? Like, did that ever occur to you seven years ago?

Well, it didn't occur to me in that specific kind of way, but I know that back then I was reading these books with guys like John Maxwell, David Allen, and these really well known authors and speakers who've sold millions of copies of their books. And I was thinking to myself, if I could even just have like a little itty bit of their success, you know, I will do well for myself and I'll be very happy. And I feel like my only goal is just, like, get like 1% of what they've got. And so that's been my mission. Just try to, you know, get a little bit more of the pie, so to speak. And I think that along the way, I gained a lot more confidence in what I do and how I pursue it. And so I have opened up my mind to the possibility that a lot more is possible for myself. It's really just a question of believe it and then jump into it and make it happen. And so I think to that degree, I am seeing some things I planned, but I'm getting a lot more stuff I never planned that's happening. That's so amazing to see as well. So it's just the power of taking action, really, and all the opportunities that would show up because of that.

Yeah, Jeff, we're going to go into this masterclass for productivity. We'll talk about batching and creating the ideal week. And what I'm really curious to ask you about is task switching. One thing I wanted to hit on was the way that you just described closing your eyes and seeing the truth in your mind, regardless of your current reality. I know last time you were on the show, which I'll link in the show notes today, we dove deeper into your story. So we don't need to go there, but when we look at this, be do have closing your eyes, seeing a reality that's different than the current surroundings. What does that look like for you in the past couple of years? How do you create a reality you want, regardless of the current reality you have?

It's a great question. I think it really comes down to creating clarity in a sense that you can believe it for yourself. And so, for example, like, there was a while before I ran a marathon, I was running on a daily basis, running like five minutes a day, maybe a mile at a time, like, very small distances. And trying to picture myself running a full marathon seemed like an impossibility. Like this. I remember this very clearly, like when I began to run that I thought a marathon was for elite athletes only, like the top of the top. You know, it had to be an Olympian to run a marathon. Then after I began to run more every day, I built more confidence, and I got to a point where I was running five miles a day, and at that point, like, a switch went off my head, and I thought, if I can build myself up from nothing to five miles a day, a marathon is just. It's the exact same thing. You just keep growing. You just keep building. And so, if anything, what I've been trying to do with my life in that same sense is how can I add a little more each day to what I'm doing and be able to see that if that trajectory continues on the same path, like, there is so much more potential ahead of me, and there's so much more I can eventually achieve. But I have to stay focused on today. I'm going to grow a little bit today. I'm going to do a little bit more. And if I can see that every day that little growth is happening, then those bigger goals that seem unachievable are actually very possible. But I have to stay committed to the daily incremental growth. And when that happens, then it's much easier to envision what's going to happen later on.

And I'm seeing them hearing from you this clear bridge between law of attraction and taking inspired action. Because as we'll discuss today on the show, without productivity, dreams don't happen. Jeff, how many people have died in this world, in our lives that we know and care about, that have had dreams that they never fulfilled? I think you and I have a mutual friend, Ted Rice. And he. He has a quote. You know, the graveyard is the richest place in the world. There's uncountable amounts of money that are represented in dreams that were never fulfilled. When you actually went through different stages in your life. Can you tell us just one habit that you got rid of? And then we'll transition into creating habits for ourselves. But what's one of them that you let go of that was challenging for you?

A habit that I let go of. It's a really good question. I had a real kind of pattern of being kind of my own worst enemy for a long time. And so what I would do that same idea of kind of envisioning your future. I am my own worst critic. And so I have a high bar of excellence for myself. But I also will beat my own idea down. At the same time. What I've done in the last few years, way better than before, was being able to accept the fact that I can have a grand dream and craft more of the possibility of how could this come to be? As opposed to why would this never happen? And I've shifted that thinking a lot in the last few years to get to a point now where I can put an enormous obnoxious goal on my list and. And actually believe it's possible. Because I'm no longer thinking in a way that says, oh, this is for somebody else, or this is like, too far ahead of me. Like, I really have shifted into what would it take? Like, how many things could I put into place to make this thing even more likely? And so with that kind of thinking, I'm more creative now than was before. I'm asking myself those bigger questions and being able to brainstorm real possible solutions. And once I have those, it's just amazing how, like, energized I've become because of those. Cause I feel like the idea now has some real tangibility in my life. And so to me, that's a habit, a way of thinking every day to say, how is this next thing possible? And with that way of thinking, it's incredible what it actually is possible.

And I feel like you have one foot in productivity in business. And I also feel from you that you have one foot in spirituality. And looking within, I want to dive really deep. Let's go three layers. Because productivity is something that affects our wellness. It affects our spiritual growth. It affects everything if we're feeling the overwhelm or lack of self worth or, you know, for a lot of people, Jeff, lack of clarity on a mission. Because why should they be productive if they don't have a clear mission and creating the right systems and software and consistency. But when we look at productivity, I mean, kind of A big question here, but how would you define productivity? What does that actually mean so people can grasp it?

I think for me, productivity is very similar to how I define success. So I stole the success definition from Earl Nightingale, who says that it's the progressive realization of a worthy goal or worthy ideal. So really, making progress itself is success. And so I take that definition there. I then think, well, to be productive for me means to actually make that progress in a very tangible, like, step by step manner. I want to make sure that on a daily basis, I'm actually doing the individual tasks that add up to the bigger goal. So there's a lot you can do with productivity in terms of being busy. There's a lot you could do with just adding more to your plate. But my question about it is more along the lines of effectiveness. How can I guarantee that I am doing the things that are actually taking me from point A to point B? And I've defined point B very clearly. I know what it is and where I'm going. And so at the end of the day, I'll look back and ask myself, not just what did I do today, but what did I do today that actually pushed me forward? And if I can have good answers to those questions, then it's very obvious to me that day was productive in the way that I see it.

I loved how you said it's really pertaining to the journey. I mean, it's figuring this thing out, and you have an academy, which we'll talk about later on. It's building a community around these habits, because productivity and the way that we manage our emotions, that's just as important as how we eat, move, and sleep. There's ways around the difficulties we feel and we all face, and it's by batching. How would you define a batch day? We've talked about cooking on batch days for the show, but batch day and productivity. You did an episode on this that we'll link in our show notes. Define batch day, Jeff, and how this relates to productivity.

Yeah, so I actually have an ideal week calendar that I have on my vision board here in my home office right now. I'm looking at. And the ideal week breaks down what my week would look like if everything went in a very kind of big picture, you know, beautiful way. And on that ideal week, I have different, I call, like, theme days. So Mondays, for example, are my podcasting theme days, which means that that's the day I'm going to work on my, you know, podcasting projects, my next episodes, my, you know, guest interviews, all that happens on Mondays. And so when I'm batching things inside of that, I'm saying, well, let's, from the hours, let's say 9 to 12, on Monday morning I'm going to batch together podcast interviews, or in the afternoon I'll do podcast recordings or podcast post production. So I'm finding similar tasks and putting them all together into one big chunk. And in that batch, I'm able to be so much more effective because my brain is thinking about one specific type of activity and then I can flow from one to the next very quickly and my quality improves and I get so much more done so much faster. And so the batching experience becomes a very highly productive use of my time.

And this is what you've taught a lot of executives in your coaching practice, and I'm sure this is in the academy. How long have you personally been doing the batching process?

I've been doing it off and on for a few years, but I got really serious about it probably a year and a half ago and I really began to take that to the next level so that, you know, in my business and line of work, I have probably five or six different projects that are, you know, going on all the time. And a lot of them can vary from one thing to another that are kind of different.

Yeah.

But there are similarities in like the way my brain operates with certain kinds of tasks. And so I'm finding more creative ways to batch together certain items and make that fit into my schedule so that I'm able to say, well, today I'm going to do activities that's, let's, let's say, for example, like I'm going to do household chores today. You put them all together at one time. You do your laundry, clean the dishes. It's all the same type of activity, same way. With my work, it's like, how can I do all my creative projects here? How can I do a lot of mundane, boring things here? And when you start to batch things together like that, you're able to knock things out in a way that makes you feel very productive because you're actually doing the things that matter in a systematic way that's very efficient.

Yeah, Jeff. And we've talked about decision fatigue with a few different guests. I'm curious what comes up for people that you work with or that are in the academy when they're looking at batching and just holding themselves accountable to doing a batch day, setting that out, is it more of a discipline or is it a self worth thing? What blocks people from creating and sticking to that batch day.

Well, it's distractions. Everybody wants to do a batch, but they always find a reason not to do it. And it's really just they're making an excuse to not even start. And I know this because I do this to myself all the time. Say, like, I'm going to work on projects. And then like, oh, before I begin that, though, I have this other thing I want to work on.

Let me check Facebook. Yeah.

All of a sudden you're like, wait a minute. I have found 18 excuses to not do my work today. And I feel like that's what happens all the time, is we let things that seem like they're urgent to pop up in the place of the thing we scheduled for ourself. And so it really is a question of boundaries and making sure that, you know, if I told myself I'm going to work from 9 to noon today, then I'm definitely going to do that. And so that takes discipline. It takes a real commitment to the timeframes you've set for yourself. But when you do that, the outcomes and the results are incredible. And so really, it's just a question of how can you guarantee your own, you know, discipline to get to that starting line? Because once you do, it's just amazing from there.

And it's pretty clear that you have a major motivation. I mean, you're serving millions of people through the podcast and many, many more online in different outlets. You have, Jeff, a really clear vision that wakes you up, gets you pumped and fired up. And in those moments of difficulty and stress or strife, I'm sure that you look to that as inspiration and motivation. How. How important is it before we even get into batch day or segmenting time blocks, that people get super crystal clear on why it is they want to be actually productive?

Oh, there's no doubt about it that your why is more important than anything. Because this. I teach this all the time with, you know, a 5:00am miracle. Like, there's no reason to get out of bed at 5am if you don't want to get out of bed. If you have a reason to do so. It's. It's just obnoxious and awful to do. I had a coaching client once who lives in Australia who I did not like the idea of early mornings at all. But I found out through multiple conversations that he would get out of bed at 4am on Saturdays to go surfing. And I was like, wait a minute, how does that work for you? And the reason was very simple. Like, he was clearly motivated to get out of bed to do something he loved to do. And so when you find that thing that you can crystallize in your mind and say, I want this thing so badly that I'm willing to do a lot to make it happen, then you wake up that day just feeling so, like, ready to rock and roll because you've knocked those obstacles out of your head and you're just going to get right to the work you want to do. And so it's about loving your work in a big way and loving what you're trying to do and being committed to the fact that you know that that work is going to result in some big, you know, end outcomes that you really want.

Oh, thank you so much for being really, really transparent and truthful on that. I'm thinking about Drew Canole. I don't know if you've had him on your show. He came on Wellness Force. Oh, great. So he talked about having a why that makes you cry, and I think that's a really big deal. So before we even get into batch day and segmenting time blocks, you know, Wellness Force ra, like, get clear on exactly why you're doing what you do. That's so much more important than the mechanistics around it or behind it. Jeff, segmenting time blocks. In these batch days, there's certain types of tasks we do. Some are expressive, some are intellectual, or some might be analytical. How important is it to segment the time blocks during these batch days, or is that totally a separate thing?

It depends on how you want to do it. I know that for me personally, like, for example, I have a lot of creative thoughts early in the day. I like to use my brain to do difficult, challenging, creative work as early today as possible. And I'll do more mundane things later on, and I'll try to segment my time blocks in ways that align to that. So I might say, like, here's a project or a task that I know is creatively challenging and difficult. I'll schedule that first, and then I'll schedule another activity that's maybe a little, little bit easier. And then by the end of the day, I'm doing things that require no brain power whatsoever. I just have to do it and get it done. If you can really organize your time in that way, that's if that's possible with your schedule of it will work with your cycles of your energy and the way your brain is operating so that the work that needs the most brain power gets that focus. And so that's really takes some Creativity to figure out which tasks you can batch together to make that work. But if your time is segmented well, you really will get so much more out of those different blocks because you are ready to work on the task your brain's prepared to do.

At that point, I'm thinking about Brian Tracy, eat the frog. Do you believe that tackling one of the most challenging and just things we don't want to do, activities in the morning, is that best, Jeff?

It depends on exactly what the task is. There's plenty of things that don't make sense to do at 5 o' clock in the morning because it's not the right time to do it. But I will say this pure sense of motivation and feeling better about your day. There is no doubt that doing it as fast as possible is very effective. I see that for myself all the time. That if I am, you know, avoiding doing something, then all I feel throughout the day is guilt about not doing that one thing. But if I get it done, the rest of the day feels so much better. I have that confidence and that sense of motivation and momentum that's been built up. And so from there, I then want to go do more. I'm more willing to try harder things because I just proved to myself I could do it first thing in the day. And you have to relearn that every single day, because every day we have the excuses not to do it again. And so it's a matter of practice. But I do believe that it does work if you have the kind of work you can do early in the day.

I think when we look at switching tasks, you know, let's say, for example, you're a busy parent and. Do you have kids, Jeff? I forgot.

Not yet. No.

Okay. No, not yet.

All right.

And so I think when we see parents, like my brother has three kids, he's always running around, he's task switching, probably on the minute, every minute. How do we deal with this overwhelm? We have our phones going off, we have everything coming at us, from our work demands to our spouse to our friends to our just life in general. Is there a way that you've cut through all the noise? Is there a tool that you use? Maybe something specific? And then I'd love to talk about theme days.

Yeah, I think that specifically, like, I do use one tool that's called freedom. That's a social media blocker and email blocker. I use that during my focus blocks of time. And so if I set myself up with a 9 to 10:30 block to work on Something I will turn on the Freedom app, which blocks all those distractions. So if I'm tempted to look at Facebook or attempt to check email, I won't be able to because actually will stop me. That's very effective. But if anything, it's about the intentionality of asking yourself what exactly knocks me off track and identifying what that is. It could be a co worker, it could be your phone. It could be, you know, a distraction that you tend to jump to. You know, you're going to go for another snack in the kitchen, whatever the thing is, you figure out what that thing is that's drawing you away from your work and put a block in place for yourself. So you have to know, like, what do I tend to do when I'm trying to avoid work? And then with those things in place, you are less likely to be distracted, less likely to switch between tasks and stay on one thing consistently. There are plenty of opportunities in life where you won't be able to control all those factors. If you have three kids at home or trying to your work, it can be difficult.

Obviously, there's no freedom blocker for kids.

Yeah, right, exactly. So really, it's just a question of what is the best case scenario for where you are right now and asking those questions and writing down real possible answers. I find that a lot of people get caught in the sense of, well, because I have three kids, because I have 20 coworkers, I can't do anything versus what could I do with what I have. And we ask those kinds of questions. I find you just. You find answers so fast.

One of the people I respect so much in the wellness and I believe productivity space is Gretchen Rubin, and she has her tendency types. And I became an obliger through the test. There's four different types. I will send you that and we will link that in the show notes because it's so powerful. I think people all have tendencies, Jeff, and like you said, know yourself, understand what's your biggest distraction when you're trying to be productive. The Freedom tool you mentioned, do you give a password to a friend for that, or do you just have to actually set it yourself?

No, for that one, actually, there is no password. You just turn it on and it blocks you and there's no way to undo it. So it's pretty hardcore.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so now I want to dive into this one layer deeper because we talked about batching, doing things that are most appropriate, understanding that maybe we have just one day where we focus on one specific thing, knocking it out getting it done. When we look at the segmenting, the time blocks. We talked about that. Now there is this thing you've mentioned on your, your podcast a few times, and it's around theme day. Why do you do a theme day and can this apply to anyone?

I think theme days are great, and I've used them even more so recently because it allows you to stick to one specific project or one specific idea for an entire day. Anybody can do this depending on the kind of work you do. It's actually a very easy thing to apply. I mean, my example earlier, saying you podcast things on Mondays, you know, I stick to that, but I also stick to other things like meetings on Fridays or I might do, you know, personal goals on Saturday or health and wellness Sundays. And you find these themes that can really group together tasks that make the most sense to do all at once. I find that because of that, it's easier to schedule when things are going to happen. It's easier to say, like, no to this activity or this distraction today because I've already chosen what I'm doing today. It gives you that clear sense of priority, so you know, what matters today and what does not. Which I find on a daily basis to be so clarifying because then I can just say to myself, I know what today is all about. I'm gonna make today happen. And then tomorrow's a whole new day, a whole new theme. We'll get to that later. But today it's all about this one thing. And then because of that, you get there's so much more progress that comes from that day. And so once you have this in place, like, you'll see the results just show up so fast. And it's really fun to dive deep into one thing for an entire day because that's when you get more creative connections and more progress overall.

Man, I love how you said creative connections because we look at flow state and being an alpha too. That's where we're the most creative, we're the most high spirited. That's where we have great ideas that flow like water. In the theme day lesson on your podcast, you actually talked about this. Giving yourself the freedom to dive deep. What does that mean?

Well, I think that's very true for most of us, that we kind of hold ourselves back from diving deep. You want to be able to say, like, I'm going to let myself go where this takes me. Like, I want to see what kinds of potential is here. Like, for example, two years ago, I spent a lot of time in the library to write my first book. And I would give myself kind of really a long block of time, six, eight, ten hours, where I would just say, I'm going to be here until I'm done. I'm not going to go home until I've completed whatever the goal was for that day. But in that time block, as long as it would take, I would let myself do as much research, as much brainstorming, as much thinking as I could. Because I knew that once I kind of got past this sense of doing the shallow, easy wins, that I would have no more excuses and be forced to really dig in deep. And that's where I would have those breakthroughs. I would have these moments of epiphany that would not have shown up otherwise until I gave myself the chance to really breathe on that idea and really dive into it. Like, you're not going to have the truly phenomenal breakthroughs unless you've committed to something for a while, because your brain takes a while to kind of unwind from the last task to get into the next one. And so when you have that block of time set aside, getting deep is so much easier at that point.

So coffee is great, but what do you do if you've hit a daily limit for your caffeine and you still require more energy to meet the demands and responsibilities in front of you? Over the past two years, I've personally been doing an N1 experiment while studying what supplements work to yield energy and balance in my wellness without a bunch of stimulants. That's why I'm excited to talk to you about Perfect Acahi Revive. This energy boosting blend of acai berry, cordyceps, rhodiola, rosea and grape extract which work together synergistically to increase endurance, athletic performance and boost cognitive function. This Perfect Acai revive is a 4 in 1 upgrade in one perfect blend of organic, pesticide free real food supplementation that delivers sustained energy and focus throughout the day without those jitters and the caffeine crash. Pick up your four in one supplement. Make it easier to get the energy you need for your busy day by clicking over to PerfectSupplements.com WellnessForce. Grab your Asahi Revive. Make sure to enter code WellnessForce to get 10% off your entire order. Productivity is such a learned skill. It's like something that's coming up for me as you speak. Jeff, you know you've been talking about this for so long. It's been how many years on the podcast? Four years on the podcast.

Yeah. Huh.

So for four Years you've been interviewing leaders in this space. You've been growing your audience. What have you seen that people give as top excuses as to why they can't give themselves that freedom to dive deep?

Well, I think it's like anything else. We all have the things that are urgent, the distractions that pop up. We believe what others tell us about ourselves. And so if your boss says, you know, this task is due, you're going to take that seriously, which is important. But we come to this point where we realize, like, I've said yes to way too many things. There's a lot on my plate that I didn't schedule. There's a lot of things I said yes to I should never have said yes to. We follow these patterns of just saying yes and agreeing to life as it is, as opposed to asking ourselves, how could I live differently? And I find that once you realize that you control your own time, you control what you let into your life, all of a sudden, you can shift gears completely and start to be more proactive in how your time is scheduled. And once you've reached that point, your day becomes your own, and you can control so many more aspects of it, and the progress just jumps right out. And so I think that if anything, if you want to really own your day, make that mental shift to own it and take control of it. You can't control everything, but it's so much that can come from just the idea of ownership of your time.

And I feel like we're in this intersection right now in our conversation. Motivation, commitment, personal development. Productivity's in the center. Because I almost get this sense from you, like, productivity is the engine that fuels everything, whether it's our relationships, our wellness. How many times have people that are listening felt, oh my gosh, I'm going to wake up and do my workout tomorrow morning. But then they don't plan their day and their responsibilities, and something gets in the way. How do you design your life so that you have so much productivity, taking care of all your other responsibilities, that your wellness gets to be first?

Making wellness first is one of the hardest things in the world. And I think it's that way because we find a lot of reasons to not take care of ourselves. It makes sense on the one hand, that we have the financial obligations to pay our bills and go to our jobs, but at the same time, to actually guarantee time for wellness is an intentional choice. And it's saying to yourself, if I don't do this, then the job can't be possible, because I Won't be healthy enough to even go to it. And so you have to get to a point where you almost like envision yourself in a worst case scenario and picture, like, how can I not only avoid the worst case scenario and avoid disease and sickness and fatigue, but then how can I actually do the exact opposite and thrive every day and have abundant energy and excitement and passion? And those things really come from taking care of yourself. Like the energy I even have right now talking to you comes from the fact that I work out every single day. I have smoothies like one right in front of me right now. I drink water, I do things that cause me to feel better. And when I do that, I get the exponential results of doing that, which is feeling better. I'm more passionate about my work. I get more work done faster. For me, health and wellness is what makes productivity possible. Energy is what allows you to be able to continue to work all day long. And so if you want to be productive and get stuff done, you have to be healthy to do so. And so if anything, health really is the number one goal. It's what makes everything else even possible at all.

That's one of the favorite things I've ever had a guest say on the show. I love that so much, man. Because you're right. I mean, you know, productivity, wellness, they all relate together because one gives focus and energy to the other. If we're feeling lethargic, if we don't have cognitive strength, if we have poor posture, I mean, there's so many pieces, Jeff, that wellness relates to being productive. Is there an action step? A few at least. So that people can start using batching and theme days in their lives. How do they do that? In a handful of steps? Just if they're listening and they're like, I want to write down what Jeff said.

Well, the best thing to do is make a list of all the things you have going on the next couple of days or the next week. And from that list of all these activities, begin to find similar items that could go together. It could be things that are actually in the same project, or it could be items from different projects that utilize the same, like, creative thought or the same analytical thought and find ways to batch those items together as an example of that. Like, I might balance my budget while also answering emails in the same batch because both of them are just kind of quick wins. Do it real fast and get it done. Find things that are similar and put them all together. And then from that you can create those blocks of time. It could just Be an hour and a half for a morning routine. It could be, you know, an hour after your lunch break. Find times in your calendar and begin to assign times to those as the type of work you're going to do. And so this really is just like a calendar task. Look at your schedule, look at your life, look what's going on and put everything together. It's a puzzle. That's all it really is. But once the puzzle fits together in a better way, you're going to find a lot of open blocks of time that are now available to optimize and to get more value from.

Those are awesome steps. And I know somebody has thought at some point as we're talking today, emails. What do I do with all these emails that are coming in? You have a two minute rule and it relates to emails and then also things that come up when, you know, brick and mortar or working at the desk. What's your two minute rule?

Well, two minute rule is what I stole from David Allen at gtd. So it's really about if I can get this thing done in two minutes or less, I'm just gonna do it right now. A lot of times that does apply to my email. So if one pops up and I think, oh, this is actually very manageable to answer in 30 seconds, I'll just do it and move on. If it's going to take longer than that, then I have a block of time every day where I'm going to take care of all my emails for the day in one block of time. But as the day progresses, let's say for example, between blocks of time where I'm working, I may have 30 minutes to go to the bathroom and get a snack and answer some fast emails. So it's the quick wins between these big focus blocks of time. A lot of time. Emails are a great thing to toss in between big tasks because they're easy usually to answer fast, or they're a little harder than you schedule a block of time just for email.

Let's talk about task switching, because that's what I'm hearing from you. Maybe you have the ability, because you've trained your brain to function at a high level, the task switching that we all have to do. If you have a large project that you're working on, it takes a lot of creative faculty, it takes a lot of emotional intelligence if you're doing an artwork piece or whatever it is to be fully present, to be emotionally present. How do you manage task switching and have any kind of cognitive decline going from one heavy task to another. Is there a guidepost that you walk your life by to do that?

Well, I think that when you switch tasks quickly, there's going to be a loss of time, a loss of productivity in that because your brain just functions best when it's doing the same thing over and over again. It finds ways to be more efficient in that sense. So if you're going to switch from a creative task to one that's more analytical, or you're going to go from painting a picture to filing your taxes, it's a very different frame of mind to do those things effectively. And so, in part, the answer is you want to, once again, batch things together. They're similar, but also give yourself the time to make that switch. And so what's not recommended, obviously, is to do, you know, 18 different things in a row that are all quite different. But let's say you're going to go from a creative art project to your taxes. Well, finish the art project. Give yourself a few minutes to, like, mentally come down from that, and then amp up into the next project with enough time to allow your brain to, like, get into it fully. And so, once again, it's kind of the idea of deep work. Like, it takes you a little while for your brain to fully engage in that next thing. So be okay with the fact there's a time to switch. But in all reality, your ideal schedule is one of the fewest number of those transitions. You possibly could have more of the big blocks as possible and fewer of the little things.

What I'm hearing from you a few times, actually, the underbelly of this is taking an inventory, taking a real emotional and or physiological inventory of what's working versus what's not. Is there clear signs that we can all relate to that our life is not working, our business is not working? Sometimes they're hidden. Sometimes we're doing things because we think that, you know, if I just tough it out and I just grin and bear it, like, things will get better. At what point do we know if something's truly not working when we look at productivity?

Well, I think for me, it's an emotional reaction. I know that when I finish a day and I feel frazzled, it's because I let myself feel frazzled. And a lot of reasons it comes from the fact that I've done way too many things and I've let myself get too emotionally invested into trying to do either the wrong stuff or tasks that don't align to my strengths, or I've got myself into a pattern of Doing things that don't align with who I want to be and how I want to live. And you can feel that it's an emotional, physiological reaction that, like, you feel drained, you feel fatigued, you feel overwhelmed by just a lot happened today. But what did I actually get done today? I don't even know. Like, if you feel like that, it's because your day didn't have big chunks of productivity and had lots of little, like, you know, nuisances that were thrown at you. And so you want to get to a point, you say, okay, if today was not what I wanted, if I feel overwhelmed by what happened, how can I make tomorrow more effective? By organizing my time in a way that is approachable, and it makes me emotionally, like, feel better about being productive. Because you're not looking for quick wins just to feel good, but you feel good because you did the right things. Like, it's a subtle difference there, but it's an important one because when you get the right stuff done, you do feel significantly better about that. And the more of those things, you can kind of, you know, back to back in your life and have those wins over and over again, you will kind of come out of your slump. You'll feel so much better, and you'll know your life is going in the right direction because you prioritize your time and you've got the wins. They're actually pushing the ball forward, which comes with that clarity of knowing the end result. But if you have that clarity, knowing that you're on the right path is so much easier. So if anything, know where you're going. And then every day, align your time to make sure you're going that direction.

I'm thinking of, you know, if you're rowing in a boat in the wrong direction, doesn't matter if you're rowing harder. You know, make sure that you're actually going in the direction you want. Because I think for a lot of people, Jeff, you know, they have responsibilities that stack up over the years. Maybe it's debt. Maybe it's, you know, taking on a marriage where you already have kids in the other marriage and they're coming in or whatever it might be when people feel the overwhelm. Is there something that you've told yourself, maybe a message or a mantra in those moments of overwhelm to get you back into productive mode?

There's actually a quote that I love that I may have actually told you about before from Albert Einstein that says, out of clutter, find simplicity from discord, find harmony in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. And that last line is what always hits me. Because when there's difficulty around, there's opportunity to be gained. Like when something is happening that's hard and that sucks and you don't want to go through. There is something in that that you can learn and grow from and improve from. And when you focus on that aspect and you go looking for the opportunity, you look for the way to improve what's going on. You always find it, it is always there. And when you find it, it just all of a sudden will switch your mind to, wait a minute, there's a way out of this. There's a way to make this better. There's something I take action on today to improve what's happening and how I feel. And the actions that you take that physical movement to go forward will pull you away from that feeling of the emotional lows or the challenges because you're doing something actively to push yourself forward.

I'm thinking about when Tony Robbins does the cold plunge in the morning, he changes his state. Yeah, you talk a lot in the 5am Miracle. It's dominate your day before breakfast, which is, by the way, I love that title. I don't know how many people are morning people, but get this book. We'll link it in the show notes. Jeff Changing our state, does it have to happen in the morning? Can we do it in the afternoon? When is the most important time during the day for us to change our state?

Well, I think the early mornings are ideal for most people, but it doesn't have to happen then. The key to like what I always teach is that intentionality wins every time. So if you can figure out what is best for you and optimize that time of day, it could be at midnight. It doesn't really matter to me. Find the time that actually works for you where you can make those significant changes, but maximize that time and get the real value out of it. Because when you do, then the next 24 hour cycle is going to be better than the last one. And you're just looking for how can I make the most of the time that I'm awake every day and get the value out of that time?

It is our most valuable asset. I was at the Paleo FX conference this weekend and one of the speakers on stage was like, you know, the real new currency is attention. Attention is really going to be the most highly valued thing in this age of what Gay and Katie Hendricks call weapons of mass distraction. We have all these things that are vying for our attention is There something that you use when you're on the go? You already talked about this freedom tool, which I absolutely love. But when you're on the go in your life, is there something that you use as far as a system or a way of being around not having people always try to take your time?

I say no constantly. If there's anything that I try to do, it's just guaranteeing that I am. My default answer to everything is no, unless I think about it and decide later on to say yes. And I feel like that has to be the way I live from now on. And you're right. The whole idea that distraction is the enemy in so many ways. I heard a quote before that said that the greatest skill set of the 21st century is going to be focused like your ability to ignore distractions, to say no and to do what matters most is the thing that will allow you to actually make progress while everyone else is just kind of confused and thrown off their track. I have another quote that I love to that I pulled. I think it was from Greg McEwen on his book Essentialism, which I love. His question was, is it a 9 or a 10? And if it's not, then walk away. So is this next thing that's coming at me like a really important, like mega awesome thing? And if it's not on that amazing scale, then I'm not going to do it at all. So super high bar to shoot for. But when you have that in place, it's so much easier to do the things that actually matter. And so if your way of thinking all the time is I'm going to say no to everything unless it blows my mind, then you're going to only be doing the few things that are really making tangible and amazing progress. I feel like that's the way that I have to live every day. So ultimately I'm doing fewer things and that's the better way to live.

Somebody is feeling inspired and I know that they're going to be checking the show notes to see different resources we've linked. Do you have a book that you gift the most? Is there a book that comes up? I mean, besides your own, but is there another book that you gift in regards to people who are thriving and wanting to create more thriving in productivity?

I think the one that I've recommended more than the other in the last probably two years or so is the book the One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan. It's a phenomenal book that really allows you to ask yourself what is the number One most important thing, like the biggest difference in every area. And that book is very powerful. There's so many just great nuances and ways to kind of really analyze your life to determine what actually matters the most. And am I doing those few things?

Jeff, I want to shift, man. This is the last round of the show. Seven questions that are really fast for seven of Jeff's answers. Are you ready?

Ready now.

I didn't send you these, so these are totally a surprise. Don't worry, they won't be that gnarly. Number one. What makes you laugh the most in life? I mean, what cracks you up?

My wife's terrible jokes. There's no doubt about it. She loves to tell some jokes that she thinks are funny. And so I laugh at her laughing at herself.

We've had so many guests talk about meditation on the show. I'm curious, since the last time you've been on, has your meditation practice changed at all?

Actually, I am getting into that a whole lot more and I just interviewed someone yesterday from India who is a meditation practitioner. And I am super stoked about doing more of that now. And if anything, that's going to become a very important part of my day.

We're seeing this more and more in corporate wellness. Jeff, too, with the meditation. Is it something where there's technology involved or is it more of a breathing or a mantra based or a TM type meditation?

I think for me, I like to do guided meditations. I use the Calm app for that. Most of the time, if I don't use that, then I just like to do just like 20 minutes of silence. I think if anything, focusing on my breath is really all that it's about. I need just some silence sometimes. I think that's really what I go for.

There's moments that define us in life. Sometimes when we're experiencing the moment, it can be like, why me? There can be a victim moment or there can be something that happens where only later on years down the road, we get clarity. If you were to take a breath and look back at all the things that have occurred since you dove into productivity and teaching others, has there been a moment that really defined you where it felt hard in the moment, but then looking back, it was for your greater good?

I think my first marathon would be that. And I think that was because that was the first time in my life that I realized that I could do something that I thought before was impossible for me to do. It was super hard. I think it was the worst marathon I've ever run. But at the same time, like, when I crossed the finish line, like, literally in tears, I was in so much pain. I realized that I could do so much more than I believe for myself. And since that day, I have taken on challenges that I never thought were possible before. And so, if anything, that moment, that day, that was seven and a half years ago. It changed my entire life.

And you've ran how many? 10, right? 10 marathons?

10. Plus a few ultras as well.

Yeah, ultra 50 in a row. 50 miles.

Not 50. Mine were. I did a 50k. I did a 30 miler. So some Miller. Random times. Yeah.

So many people have beliefs about productivity. People hear the word productivity and they might tense up. What do you think from all your years of study? What's a common misconception about the word productivity?

Everyone believes it means that you're doing more as opposed to doing the right things. And so the most common thing I hear all the time is, you know, Jeff, I don't want to be productive because that means I'll have to work more hours every day. And I think that's the worst possible, you know, way to approach it. Because then, of course, it feels exhausting and overwhelming because, you know, I don't want to give someone more homework to do. Really, the question is, how do you use the time you have more efficiently?

If somebody wakes up tomorrow morning and they listen to the podcast on the way to work, there's a lot of things they're going to do. And we'll talk about the productivity academy. But if they want to take one action, one inspired action, I know it's challenging to drill it down into one sometimes, but what would that one thing be? I mean, if they're looking to begin this transformation, what's that first step into being more productive?

I would say look at your schedule and figure out what you can get rid of. Ask yourself, like, what is on my calendar that I've already said yes to that I could cut? I find more liberation among cutting things than anything else in the world. So if I have an appointment that gets canceled or if I'm able to delete a task or free up time, there's an immediate win you get from that. You'll feel so much better, and you'll feel like you have some breathing room and you're able to do your work more effectively. So look at your calendar and just cut as much as you possibly can, and then from there, be able to kind of reorganize the puzzle pieces at that point to make everything more efficient.

What do you get the most joy out of cutting. I'm curious. You already said that you enjoy saying no, but when people or places or things come at you that you feel are a drain or an energy drain, what's a common one that you say no to a lot?

Well, I say no to a lot of requests of my time. A lot of people ask me to be on their podcast. Ironically. I said yes to you, Josh, because you're a great guy. But I think there's a lot of requests that I get to do things that sound good and things I used to say yes to. But I've come to a point now where I am, I'm more clear than I ever have been on what is the best use of my time. So if I have scheduled something that I later on felt like, oh, I should not said yes to that, but then it gets canceled, I'm like, oh, thank God. Okay, I can get this real sense of like I want to do the things that matter most. If I've ever said yes to something that was a mistake, if I can't back out of it, I will. But if I can't, that feeling of it not happening anymore really is phenomenal. And that just kind of reaffirms the fact that that I want to do what's most effective for me. And a lot of times that means saying no to others, which is, you know, not fun to do. But I know that in the end it is the best choice because then.

You'Re going to be doing it out of obligation rather than passion and connection. I can't think of something more that applies to all of us than over commitment. And of course, circling back to very beginning when we talked, overwhelm comes from over commitment. And so this productivity piece and it comes to over committing in our wellness too. Do not sign up for three races at once. Make sure that if you tell your friend you'll be there at 6am that you're going to show up. Jeff, so thank you for reminding us about that last question, man. What is wellness to you? Now? It's been over a year since we talked last. Has anything changed or is it the same? How do you define wellness?

Good question. Actually, I joined a gym last fall, which is the first gym I've been a part of in 10 years, if you can believe that. For most of my kind of athletic career, so to speak, I've just been a runner. I've gone to the trails and I've run marathons and I've loved running, but I've gotten really into lifting weights in the last six months, and I am just becoming obsessed with it. And I feel like I've been missing out for the last 10 years. I should have spent more time in the gym. And so, if anything, to me, wellness has so much more to do now with not just physical strength in terms of, like, I look good in the mirror because I have muscles, but being, like, physically able to handle whatever life comes at, you know, throws at me. So if I can pick up my groceries a little bit easier or, like, you know, do whatever is I want to do in my life, I'm physically able to do. So, you know, I don't have back pain. I don't have issues that I may have had in the past. Like. Like, I want to be a strong person. And I think that I'm getting a lot more of that in a sense of being an overall, you know, well, human being for a lot of that comes from going to the gym.

I love that you said that because there is one of my favorite quotes. I'm going to totally butcher this, but it's, you know, don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back. And I feel like when we have physical strength, it relates to everything we do. Jeff, you know, no offense to anyone who's only doing endurance, but we talked to Tina, you're on the show, and. And she described how when she started going back into the gym, it completely transformed her running. It made her running better. She had more energy. And there is something to be said about mitochondrial density and just getting our muscles to grow. So thank you for this reminder and for sharing your gifts with us on the show. This has been such a fun conversation. I want to leave a little bit of space here. Let's talk about this productivity academy because we've had many dives into kind of the tip of the tip of the icebergs in relation to batching and theme days and things like this. All of this is a continuum. Learning productivity is a skill. And that skill can be fortified by community and by teaching. So tell us about the productivity academy.

Sure. Yeah. The Rockin Productivity Academy. It really is my premium productivity service. And so it's a chance for you to join up with a community of people who are committed to being more productive every day to accomplishing what I call their life's grandest goals, whatever it is you're trying to get done. Everyone from entrepreneurs to people you know, stay at home moms, anyone who's so run marathon writing my next book. These big things we want to Do The Academy gives you the chance to have a community of people that are around you, that are supporting you. There's a live webinar every month. There's a training video. There's an exclusive interview with a high achiever who teaches more lessons. It's really just an opportunity for you to dive deeper into the things you want to get accomplished and to figure out ways to make that happen more efficiently so you can spend your time on those few things that matter most. Because if anything, the overall kind of theme of the Academy is how can I do less of the nonsense so I can do more of the few things that I love? And when that happens, it's amazing how much more gets done. And so that's really the goal of the Academy, is to bring people together who all have that same kind of mission.

You only do this a few times a year. You're launching the Academy again in the fall. When is the date where people can actually go to rockingproductivity.com well, you can.

Go there today and sign up for the email list that will actually give you those notifications for that. The exact date's not been set yet for the fall, but that will be up very soon.

Yeah, this is cool. I want to join. I want to jump in. Because what I've seen in my life as the show has grown and as I have more people, Jeff, that are wanting my time. And so I've been saying no, and sometimes I've been just not responding. And I'm in that growth phase where I'm getting better at saying no. But I think that community and connection will benefit me, just like all of us. And thank you again for reminding us about productivity is not about doing more. Jeff, is there any parting guidance for someone that wants to learn more, more about you and check out your podcast?

Yeah, sure. You can go to jeffsanders.com to find out everything I'm working on today. The podcast the Five A Miracle is on iTunes and the book the Five A Miracle is on Amazon.

All right, great. So now we'll just wait to hear when the baby announcement comes next up.

Yeah, definitely.

Jeff, thanks for coming on the show.

Yeah, thank you.

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Sam.