The Sex & Wellness Connection With Natalie Vartanian & Bob Schwenkler

Wellness Force radio episode 69.

The quality of our sex life is a direct reflection of our internal health. And I would say that my experience is that our kind of like fitness level, you know, like our body, our diet, the amount of weight that we carry, how good we feel on our bodies, all of that is a direct reflection of our internal health as well.

What I find is we want the same things. We think we want different things, but we want the same things. So even that is revolutionary for some couples of just pointing out, you know, you guys want the same things, right?

What's up my friend? Welcome back to another episode. This is Josh Trent, your host and thank you for spending some time with me here on the podcast. This is where I bring you access to the most inspiring and passionate experts in both behavior change and wellness technology right now. And every week you and I get to come together to learn from these world class leaders who are dedicating their lives to driving real transformation in our our physical and emotional wellness. I'm excited to bring you this episode by the show sponsor, Perfect Supplements. And I'm honored to stand with this company who walks the talk with their values of non gmo, organic and pesticide free real food supplements that support us all on the wellness journey. Hop on over to perfectsupplements.com wellnessforce. You can enter code wellnessforce to get 10% off your entire order. Today's episode is very special. It's unique. We have not talked about this yet on Wellness Force Radio and it's really, really important for all of us the connection between sex, love, relationships and wellness. We've had a couple guests on the show like Gay and Katie Hendricks and Dr. John Gray that have really talked a little bit more about self intimacy and how to cultivate power from the body to the mind and in our relationships. But today, both coaches, Natalie and Bob are going to rock your world. I got pretty vulnerable about 10 minutes into the interview about my recent breakup this year and I think it really means for all of us that we get to look at the baggage we're bringing into our relationships with other people, but more importantly with ourselves. We have two special guests today, Natalie Vartanian and Bob Schwinkler. They both believe epic love is possible and that you have whatever you need to get the relationship of your dreams and better at your fingertips. They're both trained life coaches and founders of Sex the podcast on itunes. They're both lovers turned business partners and they help singles and couples create miracles in their love lives to get the intimacy, confidence and passion that they want. A little bit more about Natalie. What? Over the past six years, she has worked with women across five continents to help them get sex and relationships that they want. She's been featured on Elephant Journal and the Good Men Project. A lot of her blog posts have actually gotten tens of thousands of shares. She's the creator of the Virtual Love course and have helped hundreds of single women believe in love again. Bob is the coach for high achieving, sensitive men. He helps men access more love, power and freedom in every area of their lives. He has been featured in the Huffington Post as well as the Good Men Project and the Elephant Journal. He is the creator of Advanced Sexual Stamina for men and leads internationally based men's retreats for sex and intimacy across the United States, Europe and Australia. Let's get right into this conversation. I am so pumped to bring you this episode about really looking at how we show up in our relationship to ourselves and with other people. Oh, and we talk about sex too. Let's jump into this powerful conversation with Bob and Natalie. Bob and Natalie, welcome to the show.

Hello, Josh. Josh.

So excited.

I'm excited. You know, I met you through a mutual friend here in San Diego. And today's topic, I think is something that applies to every person alive and that is how our relationships with ourself and other people impact our wellness. So really excited that you came on. You know, I want to jump right in because we have a ton to talk about. You both have really eclectic stories and backgrounds, but I wanted to ask you something unique and I ask a lot of guests this, but I'm curious. We'll go one by one. Natalie, what is something fun that most people don't know about you?

That is a great question. Let's see. The first thing that came to my mind and maybe it's because of the wellness, but I just, I love dancing. Like, I used to totally use friends fake IDs to get into dance clubs when I was 18 and as soon as I hit the dance floor, would be there dancing until we shut the place down and I didn't even need a drink. It just was my high. And oddly enough, I'm just getting back into kind of reconnecting to that part of myself and dancing every single day and having that be a part of my wellness and kind of a 30 day dance challenge.

30 day dance challenge. That sounds fun.

Yeah, it's a really great way to start the morning.

What about you, Bob? What's something fun most of us don't know about you?

The first thing that popped into my head. Here's a little tidbit from my past. My friends and I, we're a little bit of troublemakers in high school and never stuff that was too destructive or malicious, but kind of like playful, but still. It really riled a lot of people up. But one of the things that popped into my head first was the time when my friend and I went to the multiplex, the theater multiplex, in our speedos, and we got into the fountain with our snorkel gear and in speedos and swam around the fountain and collected all the change. And then we didn't want to get caught for, like, stealing the money, so we went and we gave all the money to the person at the counter at the IMAX theater.

Sounds like you have a little bit of a danger side, my man. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, like, how that thought came to me is that I'm kind of a ringleader is the word that Natalie has given me. So in high school, I started a scooter club, and we went scootering down hills up to like 40, 50 miles an hour. And so I'm very much like a ringleader, and I do things my own way. And there's numerous, numerous instances in the past where I can enrolled other people and doing weird, outside of the box stuff.

Well, you both are lovers turned business partners. You help singles and couples create miracles in their love lives to get intimacy, confidence, and passion and essentially what they truly want. Now, I want to start off this kind of big, vast space that we're going to explore today by just asking this simple question. What is it really that women want? And obviously we'll go into the men portion. But I'm curious for Natalie here, the first question, as far as love in relationships, hot sex.

Oh.

What is it that women truly want? You know, and this goes for all age brackets.

I'm kidding, but not kidding. I mean, it's really important. Attraction is really important for us to feel desired, to feel wanted, to feel like we're the sexiest woman on the face of the planet with our partner and with that, I think again, that physicality piece is so important and that wellness so important because, you know, am I feeling sexy? Am I feeling like my partner thinks I'm sexy? And is there that kind of charge and chemistry and attraction? Because that is really what differentiates friendship. You know, I could have that same kind of relationship, but that, that spark, that passion, that sex is what differentiates romantic relationships, you know, so having that part be alive and juicy and exciting is what we Want.

What do you think, Bob? For men? You know, I mean, we heard Natalie's answer. What do men really want in regards to relationship with a woman or with anyone?

Okay, so what men want, the theme that I see recurring over and over again with guys, they're kind of these cultural stereotypes that men have higher sex drives and women don't want it as much, and that turns out to not be true consistently. That so often is not the case. And then on the flip side, so men are considered to just be kind of, like, sex crazed. And that's the main thing that they think about when in reality, like, in my experience, pretty much every guy who I talk to, and I talk to a lot of guys around relationships and around sex, they want intimacy, they want deep, fulfilling connection. They want partners, they want lasting relationships, they want intimacy. Again, that kind of goes against the cultural grain, but that's what I find to be true for a lot of, like, all the guys that I talk to. That it's true.

And it's interesting because when I think about spiritual fitness, emotional fitness, physical fitness, they all take training. And one of the things that both of you do is you train people, you coach people. Describe for us, Natalie, in a sentence or two, kind of. Who is Bob and Natalie?

Ooh. Bob and Natalie are a pair of people that are really committed to honesty in relationship, to genuine connection, and who practice that themselves. Like, really practice what we preach and walk that talk and then come back and speak and teach from experience, personal experience.

And you both have a unique story. Let's go kind of one by one, back and forth. Bob, what led you into coaching, specifically coaching about love and intimacy and sex in relationships?

What led me into coaching? The very short story is that I was a recording studio engineer for 10 years, and that was my career. It was great. Got to work in a really cool studio, got to make beautiful art with people who I really enjoyed working with. But I wanted to be more deeply fulfilled. I wanted to connect with people on a deeper level. And so coaching appeared as the path once I realized I wanted to make that shift. What got me into coaching around relationships and sex is that through most of my life, I felt very disconnected from my sexual energy and from my sexuality. Basically held a lot of shame in the past. A lot of shame, a lot of hurt just around feeling like I'm not able to get the kind of connection that I want. And our greatest wounds can become our greatest gifts in the world. And so I've ended up doing a lot of my own healing work in Those parts of my life and other parts, of course, really the piece that catalyzed it was when Natalie and I started dating. And she's been working with women around love and sex and relationships for a number of years now. And so it kind of. We just started collaborating and partnering up around this direction, doing our own podcast, Sex the Podcast, and doing our coaching business. And it's just like. It's been an explosion from there.

And then, Natalie, your path was also interesting because it's not like you woke up one day and you're like, I'm gonna be a sex and love and relationship coach. I mean, there's a process there. What did that look like for you?

Oh, yeah. I think the earliest version of that was when I was in high school. I was 13, and my best friend would come to me during breaks and basically give me the download on all the guys she had a crush on. And so it became a game where it was like, ask Natalie. It was like a Dr. Ruth kind of thing, which was hilarious because I had no experience with anything at that point. No dates, no relationships, nothing. But it just kind of set this pattern in my life where I was the person that people came to for advice and for guidance and support and a safe space to share all of the nitty gritty around sex and relationships and things like that. And I was personally obsessed with the whole thing around, like, I gotta figure this out. I gotta figure sex and relationships out. I also felt kind of broken around that.

Well, this is the thing. Do we ever. Do we ever really figure it out, or is it just an ongoing evolution? Right.

Yeah, that's why it's the best profession, because we will never figure it out, like, till I die. This will be an area that is just gonna be constantly fascinating new things to learn and grow and evolve into and say, whoops. Thought I knew that one, but guess I didn't.

Well, Bob, one of the things that we focus on on the show is behavior change. You know, how do we elicit the right things that we bring in, that we attract, and also that we do, that we execute on. And in regards to our relationship between intimacy and sex and wellness, what does this link. I mean, can you unpack how wellness and a thriving sex life are related?

Yeah, I mean, it's the first thought that pops into my head is, how can they not be? It's the quality of our sex life is a direct reflection of our internal health. And I would say that my experience is that our kind of, like, fitness level, you know, like our body Our diet, the amount of weight that we carry, how good we feel on our bodies, all of that is a direct reflection of our internal health as well. So for me, the work that I do really starts on a core, like, internal congruence level, like an emotional level. And if I'm carrying junk around inside, emotionally and like, physiologically, somatically, we actually store. We store, like, anger, we store hurt, we store trauma physically in our bodies. When we're carrying that stuff around, it gets reflected onto the outside, so it gets reflected into our fitness life, it gets reflected into our sex life, into the quality of our relationships. That's like the foundational layer that's not giving you specifics on so what do I do about it? But that's my approach to wellness.

And I think they're really interesting locked because as you both know, you've been in relationship for a while, but recently there was a separation that. Yet you still formulate this high quality, successful coaching business. I mean, Natalie, how does this work? You know, I think this is such a unique place to begin the next phase of this conversation because you guys have created so much. Co created, but also you've dealt with this kind of breakup where the relationship didn't work out. And it's interesting because you're both coaches for relationships. And so unpack this a little bit for the audience so they can connect with you a little bit. Natalie.

Yeah, so. So, I mean, we were very intentional going into our relationship about how we started, what our intentions were, what our goals were, what we wanted. And it definitely was this process throughout of always being honest, always wanting to be on the same page, striving for similar goals, things like that. And so when we got to a place of realizing, you know, we weren't able to kind of meet each other in that way, and there were paths that we needed to go on for our own individual growth. We were very intentional in the closing, too, and completing that chapter. And what are we going to keep? Like, how is this relationship going to change so that we can maintain the connection? Because we are very connected. Bob and I create a lot of awesome things together. We're great friends. Like, you know, we're just emotional support for each other and cheerleaders in a lot of ways. And so it was very intentional in the completion. And at the same time, we're also emotional creatures. Like, we both went through our grieving process at different times. Like, Bob would be grieving, and I was like, okay, I'm good. I'm moving on. And then I would be in the depths of my grieving and Bob was just kind of like kind of coming to more still plateaued place and we would kind of ping pong back and forth and really try and be with each other in that place of just, you know, again, it's okay. Like it's natural, it's a loss, it's an ending. We had a lot of dreams and visions and goals for ourselves in our romantic relationship and those were, you know, dying in a way. And so there was a lot of transition. And then for me personally during that time too, like my self care just kind of went in a shitter. Like it was just, it was hard enough to maintain just existing and running my business and just kind of taking care of base needs within myself. But to then, you know, my eating got all crappy and I wasn't working out every day like I was before and I wasn't taking care of myself and nurturing myself and it was rough. I feel like personally for me it just barely in the last couple of weeks that I've been very committed to getting back into my routine and habit.

And the power of this is that you're a powerful coach. You both coach people about intimacy and relationship, yet you're still human beings. Like you don't have this game completely wired yet. Right? And I think that's what's interesting about. Yeah, that's what's interesting about meeting you both is that you serve people on a very high level, yet you're still grounded in who you are and that you're fallible and that you don't have this game 100% figured out. And it brings up something for me around intimacy. You know, what happened with my previous girlfriend is we didn't have the same love languages. I mean that was really it. And so that was the piece that everything else kind of deteriorated from. There would be times where I just, I would really need to work and it was like I would feel like I couldn't work because there was just so much unresolved things that were going on in the relationship all the time. Like I wasn't spending enough time with her. And then like she had all this energy and I was like, listen, I have, I get to work. Like this is my dream. I'm working towards my vision here. So that was, that was kind of a big piece. But I think she always just had lots of unfulfilled energy, I guess you could say.

Well, it sounds like your priorities were in different places. It sounds like you totally sounds like you were in a place where you wanted to dig in and work and not as much, like, put that energy into relationship.

I think so. I think that's why it's still sad, because I'm like, oh, my God, she's. She's great. But, like, this is where I'm putting all my attention now. So it is what it is. You know, timing is so important, right? Timing is almost as important as everything else.

And the work there would be just as much like getting to a place of what really is going to be the, the best choice in the relationship. Like, if you and her had been coaching with Natalie and I, the conversation might have been, how can we get to a decision point more quickly and avoid all the bumps and the pitfalls along the way?

And actually, what do you mean, decision point?

Because, you know, you two ended up breaking up. But I wonder what that might have been like if you'd have had support and actually gotten clear on that decision to split up sooner and with less heartache along the way.

I think that's very true. Yeah. Natalie, have you had any stories where people can really connect to about success for people in breaking through the limitations of intimacy?

Yeah, we had one client who came to us really wanting to call in her. One call in her soulmate, her long term relationship. And it was definitely a journey for her to look at that baggage that she was bringing onto the plane, look at all the things that might be getting in the way of that. And she got clearer on what she wanted. She was pretty clear already, but we got her even clearer. But what was fascinating was she finally got to a point of letting it all go and just focusing on herself. Like really that, like, self care, self love piece. She was traveling. She was just really doing all the things that really felt good for her. She came to a place of I'm good. I mean, literally, she came to one call. She's like, I'm good, guys. I mean, I'm good being single. I don't really know why we need to coach anymore. I'm good. But then not even a month, month and a half later, we get on the call again, she's like, found my guy. And we're talking engagement. And it was like, what, in a month? A month and a half? Yeah. Like, she's like, when you know, you know. And I, and I really do believe that when you know, you know. And to me, it was fascinating that it happened. And it's so appropriate that when she focused completely on herself, was completely happy in her life and taking care of herself, doing the things she loved and just letting it go and saying, I love my life. Regardless of what happens, I love my life. Then it happened like, boom, instantly.

That is powerful because she was doing her own work, her self care. I'm sure she was taking care of her wellness, unique wellness. And then by her doing that. I've always believed in this, actually. You know, when I'm doing the things that light me up, when I'm taking care of myself in all facets, I think that there's an intuitive part of me that knows I'm gonna find someone that's doing the same thing.

Yes.

And do you feel like that's what happened?

Yeah, I mean, I think like attracts, like it just. It were kind of putting off that energy of I don't need you, but to have you would be wonderful. Like, you would be such an enhancement to my life. Like that I think is kind of the energy that gets transmitted without words. And so, yeah, that's exactly what happened. I really do believe that.

Bob, do you have someone or maybe a couple that really you made an impact for. That lights you up to think about the change you helped them with.

Yeah. I want to talk about a man who Natalie and I worked with late last year. He came into our practice and the thing that really brought him through was premature ejaculation. But what that was creating was just like a big kind of disconnect in their sex life, which ended up spreading into other areas of the relationship. It was having a big impact. And he came in and we. I remember my first call, we talked for just 15 minutes, and he told me the story about his past marriage where basically he was with his past wife for like 18 years or something like that. And the first year of his marriage, his wife. He had moments, one of which was his wife literally saying, just go ahead and get it over with. You can have sex with me. Go ahead and get it over with. And just the amount of emotional trauma that that guy left the relationship with is just. It's like heart wrenching. You know, he was with this person for how many more years? And so of course he's. And so that's showing up in his sex. That's showing up physically. So, like the first big breakthrough was that the premature ejaculation was actually like a lot of it was an emotional thing. It wasn't just some physical thing that was happening to him. And Natalie and I worked with him just for three or four months. Right, Natalie?

Yeah, it wasn't that long.

Three or four months. And we helped him tap into all these parts of himself, Parts of himself that he had compartmentalized. Like, he had disconnected himself from his anger. He had disconnected himself from his kind of, like, masculine leadership energy. I helped him tap into his inner asshole during one session, and that was a huge breakthrough because his confidence showed up, started really showing up after that session. And the work that we did was only around his relationship. But he gave us the feedback that at work, actually, people were totally unsolicited, were giving him comments about how much more confident and secure he seemed. And he felt like he was making better decisions and choices at work. And then in the relationship, he was taking a lot more leadership and showing up a lot more confidently. And that just has made it, just hearing him talk about it. His life is black and white from where it was when he started.

What does that look like, Natalie, to work with you in coaching for couples to reclaim intimacy and get more play.

And passion, we get really clear on what is the desire on both ends. What is it that each person is really wanting? What is their desire? What is their love language? What is it that they're wanting in their partnership to create? And then what are the things that are getting in the way? And so much of it is miscommunication. So much of it is just not communicating around this kind of stuff. And so getting clear on all that and then teaching communication tools and new ways of relating and connecting and being intimate, that will bring them closer to the things they want, ultimately. Because what I find is we want the same things. We think we want different things, but we want the same things. So even that is revolutionary for some couples of just pointing out, you know, you guys want the same things, right?

So learning love languages and having different pieces that fit into individual needs because men and women are fundamentally different. But really understanding from a coaching perspective, hey, this is something that we apply to your unique life.

And typically, people will come in with basically, like, baggage in the relationship, like things that they haven't been able to work through or things that they haven't even spoken about. So a big piece of the work oftentimes is helping them get reconnected with each other, helping them create tools and strategies to communicate, and helping them clear that space in their relationship. Because if there's resentment stuck in the relationship, that's going to show up in the sex life, it's going to show up everywhere. So we help get that stuff cleared out is a big part of it, too.

The intimacy that we have with ourselves, how do we cultivate that before we even get Into a relationship. I mean, what is it like to have self intimacy? Maybe this is a good question for Bob here. Like as a man creating intimacy with himself, what does that even look like?

Yeah, the first thought that popped into my head was it means to slow down enough to actually get present with what's going on inside of me. A lot of us spend a lot of our lives avoiding actually being in the moment. Like being present. That's kind of a vague term. Like what does it mean to be in the moment or be present? But it simply means to stop and notice. Like how am I feeling right now? What emotions do I have right now?

A lot of people out there are listening and they're thinking, okay, I'm in a relationship right now and I know that I probably bringing some baggage into it. Like I'm bringing some suitcases filled with stuff on this flight and how do I get more intimate with me as a human being individually before I either get into a relationship or even if I'm in one now as a man's perspective, I think it's nice to be able to contrast what it's like to be intimate and present and well as a man. And then we'll also ask Natalie the same question. But what does that look like for a man to have this cultivation of self intimacy?

One of the biggest things is to go get support. And especially for guys, it's so in the culture for us to I got this handled, I'm gonna do it on my own. If I'm going to get help, that means that I'm actually getting fixed and there's something wrong it brings up. I don't think a lot of men experience it as shame in the moment. But I, from the outside I see it as shame of like there's something wrong with me. I don't need to get fixed, I can do this on my own. When in reality that's one of the least self loving things that a man and any person but men, you know for sure there's a certain flavor to it can do. So like go find a coach who you resonate with and do that interpersonal work to let go of that baggage. Go to therapy, go join a men's group. I can't tell you how many guys I've sent to. There's one organization called Mankind Project that's been around for about 30 or 40, about 30 years. They run 50,000 guys through their weekend program and it's just, it changes guys lives and it helps them get really in touch with their baggage. And when we actually stop and slow down and get in touch with our baggage and let ourselves actually work through it and release it. Then it's just gone. We don't spend our times in work. We don't spend our days in workaholic mode, or we don't spend our time drinking to avoid those feelings that we've been pushing down, or we stop getting in fight. Like, the reason we get in fights is because we don't take a moment to slow down and actually get in touch with and do the work that it takes to heal our baggage. It's just they're all ways of checking out.

And then, Natalie, from a woman's perspective, this intimacy within a woman's mind, within a woman's body and heart, what does that look like for women? A lot of people on the show are probably in a profession where they serve and care for other people. I think a lot of people that have written to me via email have been healthcare practitioners, nurses, trainers, people that care for others. But as a woman, how does one woman care for herself from an intimacy perspective, either in or out of a relationship?

Yeah. And that's such. I mean, you kind of took the theme out of my mind, because my first thought was, it's so easy for us as women to lose ourselves with others, lose ourselves with our friends, lose ourselves in our career, lose ourselves with our romantic relationships, where, because we're kind of in this, both we're nurturers, natural nurturers, but also, there is this also ingrained thing around women serves like, you give. That's kind of the role that you play as a woman. And so just this coming back to self is really important. What do I need? What do I want? What works for me? What makes me feel good? What would feel like? It's filling me up, you know, so kind of asking those questions and getting really clear and being really honest about what you need and then learning to say no, like, learning to have those boundaries, learning to have healthy boundaries with yourself, too. Right? Because, like, I might feel like, oh, it'd be really awesome to just sit down and have, like, Haagen Dazs tonight, you know, but, like, is that really gonna have me feel good on the other end of just binging on ice cream? Am I gonna feel filled up? Am I gonna feel good? Is this really gonna feel like it's taking care of me? Sometimes the answer is yes, Sometimes the answer is no. And so being that honest and then and being able to draw and maintain those boundaries, regardless of self, other career, whatever the relationship Is, I think is such a key and it's easier said than done. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it's probably one of the hardest parts around the self intimacy. But it's so crucial and I think.

It'S powerful because we're talking about what we get to do, you know, creating these healthy boundaries. And Bob talked about support groups and the mankind project and things like this. But you know, resources aside, I mean, Natalie, let's ask you first and then we'll go to Bob. Has there been one or two things from a training perspective or from a learning perspective that you've done as a coach and as a woman to then instill that healthy boundary about self care and about taking care of your intimacy?

When I do have any kind of self care thing that I need to do and I'm having a hard time doing it by myself. I have accountability buddies. Like I literally there was a stretch of time. And I also love 30 day challenges. I think they rock because it just gets us to get out of what we would normally do and it pushes us to do more than we normally would.

What does a 30 day challenge look like for you?

So my latest one is a dance challenge. 30 day dance challenge. And I put it out there to Facebook to my friends. I got some people like enlisted in it. But there was a 30 day challenge that I did where I was going to do push ups, sit ups and squats every single day for 30 days. And I literally had a girlfriend that we texted each other every single day when we were done. So we had that person to check in with. You know, I believe, I don't believe you have to do it alone. I think that's bullshit around this whole, like, you're not strong if you can't like self motivate. If you need support, get support. Have someone you're texting every single day. Like whatever's gonna work, you know, for you to be able to take care of yourselves, lean on your community and share what's up. Like that's the other thing about what Bob talked about earlier. Around shame. Like we have shame around our relationships, around sex, around when we feel like we're not doing what we need to do. Right. I'll tell my friends I'm having a hard time. You know, my health hasn't been that great. I've actually been just really kind of like destructive, not great behavior in whatever's happening. Just kind of airing out the quote unquote dirty laundry. I feel like just sharing that stuff with people will remove the charge so that it's not gripping you and keeping you in that kind of stuck place.

And this is powerful because we talked about the charge and like kind of emotional fitness charge being weight. It's hard to carry around weight all the time, Bob. For you, like what's been a tool? What's been something you can really go to? Is it an education course? Has it been a training or a mentor? Possibly that's, that's shifted you in the right way for those healthy boundaries.

Again, it's going back to the creating support and community piece. I've been really intentional about who I've surrounded myself with and really active about it. For instance, there would be, there were times a couple years ago, I haven't done this lately, but a couple years ago there were numerous people who I met because they wrote a blog post and I really resonated with it and I reached out to them and I said, hey, can I, can we chat? Like, I'd love to meet you. I went to conferences that I resonated with, I went out and I created a community of like minded people who were up to things that inspired me. And so to bring it down a level to more specific is that I've created structures in my lives of having consistent support in my life. So a year ago I created a virtual men's group with people who I had met through cultivating community. I said I want to get together with extraordinary group of men every other week who are just really both sensitive and powerful dudes and who are up to inspiring things. And I want to connect with them and have us all support each other every other week. And so I've been doing that for a year. I want to have some one on one time with my, with my most trusted guy friends consistently. And so we have a half hour call that we get together for every week and we support each other around what's alive in our lives. And so I've created structure and consistency around the support I've drawn from the network and the community that I've created. And I've created structure within that.

So to keep you accountable and the friends that have joined in your group. And that's a powerful tool because without human connection, how are we supposed to grow? How are we supposed to release? As Natalie talked about the charge, but now let's shift. I mean, let's talk about something fun which is sex. Let's talk about sex a little bit. Sex and health. And I mean the way that sex can infiltrate or it can kind of take away energy from people when it's kind of like, not that healthy. But when we look at sex as a continuum, hopefully it's a continuum for our whole life. What are things, Natalie, that you see with clients that really hold people back from being sexually fulfilled?

So their comfort in their body. I think this is something that comes up a lot for women, like, do I. Do they feel comfortable in their body? Do they feel confident in their body? Are they connected to their body? Because I feel that shows up. So, again, weight is such a manifesto of what's happening inside. Like, it's such an inside job. I used to say this to myself years ago of just whatever's happening on the inside, really, like Bob says, gets reflected on the outside. And so I know when I was growing up, I wasn't in shape and I had weight on because I was scared. I was scared of sex. I wasn't confident around that. And so I kind of built this padding up to protect myself and keep from getting hurt. It was really easy to just kind of use that as a shield. And then when I started kind of getting more into my body, it just kind of naturally did its thing, and I grew to be more confident and slim down and just became fit. But there is such this kind of correlation of, like, how am I feeling on the inside? Am I open to connection? Because sexual is the physical form of connection. So am I open to that? Is my heart open? Do I feel like I'm able to be vulnerable with another human being? Because, again, you're naked, Literally, figuratively, metaphorically, or naked with another person. And so it's just, yeah, this place of how comfortable do I feel in my heart and opening my heart up and then my body, comfortable am I in my body and opening up my body.

So the relationship between kind of how a woman feels in her skin, which could actually be the whole block as to why the sex wouldn't be powerful and amazing. Right?

Yeah, because you're just so self conscious about everything. Like, about them, about yourself, about this relationship, you know, because. And that's the other thing. If there's like a lot of anxiety in the relationship and not knowing where I stand with someone and what are we doing? And it's hard to let go. It's hard to really like. Because we as women need safety. We need to feel, like, safe and grounded in the relationship. So if that's not present, we can't just, like, lean back and open up and just really let go in that way. And so that is gonna be an impediment, too, in the sex.

So it sounds like it's a confidence piece. Bob, what do you think for confidence for men? Like what makes men not confident sexually?

For me, it all goes back to emotional baggage if we're carrying stuff around. So I wanna say that and then frame it in a slightly different way. Is that whether it's in sex or in just a relationship in general, but certainly in sex, intimacy is really. I believe that we all want intimacy at the core of it. We don't want to get together for just a few minutes and rub our bodies together and it feels good. That's cool. But if we did that our whole lives, it would be really unfulfilling. We want to really connect with the person that's in front of us. And in order to really connect with the person that's in front of us, we need to have access to all the different parts of ourselves, like all the different ways of being. So if me as a man, if I've disowned my ability, if I've disowned, say, my sadness or my anger or just any other parts or emotions of me, if I've shut them off and compartmentalized my internal being, there's only going to be one little portion of me that's actually showing up for sex. And I'm not saying that I'm going to show up and cry or get angry during sex, although I might. But really what it is is about taking down the walls inside of myself and decompartmentalizing myself and having a full, alive expression in all the different areas of my life and then bringing that into my sex life. And just being a really open, connected, internally person allows me to be open and connected externally as well.

And it's no surprise that sex is one of the most powerful healing modalities known to humankind. I mean, think and grow rich. Napoleon Hill, one of his chapters was on the power of sexual transmutation and how, you know, there's really no greater equal in this world as a therapeutic modality to sex. So we have so many people in America and really globally that, you know, are maybe feeling repressed in some way. They're not happy in their body. Or men. They're not confident. Maybe men too. The same thing. You know, I know when I've been in periods of my life where I've not felt good in my own skin, I don't feel that sexy. I don't feel I can go talk to a girl in public and make a connection there. What do you think? When we look at this Shame piece. Natalie talked about feeling gross in our body. Men feeling shame about the way that we look or maybe we don't make enough money or whatever that might look like. How do we recognize this shame piece? First of all, what does that look like? And then how do we push through that? What are some tools and resources to push through this shame spiral that happens?

How do we recognize it? The first piece is just accessing a commitment to internal inquiry. And it's as simple as that, really. Everything else comes from there. If I live the kind of life where I ask myself the question and I go inside to say what's actually keeping me from being fully expressed or what's actually keeping me from having a really fulfilling experience of life or of relationship or of sex and I start asking myself that question and then I go start asking other people that question too. Of okay, I've realized that actually just hook up with a lot of women and it's not very fulfilling. Talk to a good guy friend. Like, have you ever had that experience? Do a Google search for somebody who's written an article about that. It's just this process of inquiry. Those blocks in our lives happen because we've just developed these routines and these patterns and these ways of being that help us avoid looking at that stuff. And so it just takes a choice to go inward and start looking.

What do those patterns look like, these patterns of avoidance?

They look like having a lot of sex, like going and hooking up without real, any real emotional component. They look like being a workaholic. They look like drinking. They look like checking Facebook. They look like being up in our head and thinking about things a lot. That's an interesting one that I see that I don't think very many people are aware of and actually being up in our heads and being in that rational, logical place. It's a thought addiction. And it's actually one of the things that will keep us from having a great sex life. It's one of the things that will keep us from feeling fulfilled. It's one of the things that will keep us from getting into or having a really connected, fulfilling relationship.

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And I think that is the funny thing that we talked about in the beginning around this fallacy or myth around our desires and sex and our needs, around that whole thing. And I really do see women as life. Like we are life. We give life, we create life. There's joy, there's passion, there's dance. I mean, those are all the things that are kind of equated with the feminine and with woman energy. And so to me it makes sense then to kind of get into that place of like sex and our drive. And because it is, it's like a fire, it's burning and we want to fan those flames. But men are much like calmer in that way. Just like naturally they are more grounded, they are more kind of centered in that way. And of course we need both, right? We need that balance of that yin and yang kind of quality. I shared it because I think it just points to the places that we again assume, based on societal stories we've heard for a lot of our lives around what women want, what men want. And it's also changing. Like it always changes again. That's why relationships are fascinating. Like what might have worked for a relationship 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago doesn't anymore. We're evolving as people. We're in a different age now. We're in the tech age. So there's so much changing and evolving. So it's always curious for me of like, okay, so what, what's the pulse now of people? What's the pulse now around sex? What's the pulse now around wellness? Right. You know, this. There's so much that changes and grows and new technologies and tools and focuses. Like they told us to eat certain things like 10 years ago, and now they're like, that's bad, like that will actually cause you cancer. And it's like, what? You know, so just I'm always curious about that piece of how do you think it relates?

And I'll just throw this out there for whoever wants to pick up this potato. How do you think that these things we've spoken about, the shame spiral, the not feeling comfortable in the body, the checking out, as Bob had mentioned, where, you know, we're using things to numb. There's been so many ways that we've kind of uncovered here that people can then identify as being kind of the problems as to why there's not the intimacy or fire or sexual passion that gets to exist. What do you think we can do from a creation standpoint now? You know, solution based creation standpoint for a busy parent, let's think of specifically a mom, a mom that wants to create more intimacy, more fire, more novelty, more fun, more just juice in her life with her husband. How does she go about doing that? I mean, what are some simple frameworks that she can put into place?

I think that you answered the question and the question, if the question is how can I create more fun and novelty in my relationship? It's like, well, how can I create more fun and novelty in my relationship? What aren't we doing that would be fun and novel? What did we used to do that was fun and novel that we don't do anymore? And that might be a conversation to have between mom and dad and then maybe a conversation around reprioritizing.

Yeah, that's my thought.

Why don't you go ahead and speak to that, Natalie?

Yeah, I think just like anything, wellness, sexual connection, taking care of ourselves, all of that to me is where is it on the priority list? And a lot of times we put the urgent, non important things higher up on the priority list. So we're putting out fires all day long instead of really looking at what are the things. And I'm also reading the Seven Habits book again. Seven Habits of highly Effective people. And it's just bringing that to the forefront again of what are you prioritizing? Are you prioritizing the things that are important and not urgent? Like sex would be one of those things. Self care would be one of those things. Wellness would be one of those things. Super important, not very quote unquote urgent as far as what we need to do. But they're foundational, they're fundamental. So is this couple prioritizing sex and sexual connection and intimacy? Do they have it in their calendar one night a week even, you know, to like have a babysitter and have a date night and just like create the space, you know, so just kind of implementing that into their routine, into their calendar, into their priority list, and then sticking to it, really getting support, sticking to it and putting in the effort. Like it really is just put in the effort.

This brings up something unique. And I don't care if it's wellness or sex or self care or any topic. And it's this deep breath and permission to actually ask for what you want, ask for what you're feeling for. So whether you're a man or a woman, I think it's a big hurdle for a lot of people. It's a big struggle to just be confident and ask, hey, this is what I want and this is why I want it. And just to have the strength to do that. I mean, another kind of hot potato question. What do you see in clients as to why they don't ask for what they want? Why do people not give themselves permission to have the emotion first of all, and then to act off that emotion and ask for what they need?

Fear of rejection. I feel like the biggest one. We're so afraid of being rejected. We're so afraid of being left. We're so afraid of being judged for our desires and our needs and our wants.

Should we just get rejected then and just leave it at that? Just get through some rejections and then.

Yeah, there's part of it. I mean, that's something that I was writing about recently. Like radical honesty comes with the consequence of possibly getting rejected. Like there is a way that. But to learn to not take that personally is a total gift to be able to master that. And it Takes mastery. It takes really practicing that. But, yeah, putting yourself out there over and over and over again and just realizing, like, it's not about you, you know, it doesn't mean anything about you if someone says no, because there could be so many other things happening on their end for why they said no. And to not allow that to prevent you from continuing to ask.

This brings up a quote that is one of my favorite quotes. And it's do the thing and you'll have the power. And it's by Ralph Waldo Emerson. And it's like so many people get wrapped up in strategy and, you know, how am I going to approach a situation? And let me plan, Let me create a spreadsheet about my relationship or whatever it is. But, I mean, Bob, when you look at having people nudging people, nurturing people to do the thing, whatever the thing is, you know, facing their fear, talking to a new girl, what are some handfuls of kind of tidbits of information? What are some powerful things that men can do to kind of break through these fear edges in regards to intimacy and talking to women?

Yeah. Start small. Act from what's actually alive and present. So, for instance, if I. If there's a woman that I see at a cafe or whatever who's beautiful and who I feel attracted to, I think certainly a place where I can go, and I think a place where a lot of guys can go when they feel resistance to approaching her is they kind of like, plan the whole future out. And maybe we're already thinking about sex and we're just sitting at the cafe table. But what's. You know, when I stop and I check in and say, what is it that actually had me notice her? Is there, like an energy that she has that she's putting off that is just drawing my attention? Is her hair done beautifully? Is she wearing a dress that I think is beautiful? And it's just starting with going up to her and saying, hey, I think you have a really beautiful dress on. You look really good in that dress.

Okay. I have to ask you, though, that goes against most conventional wisdom where, you know, there's kind of a stigma out there where you don't want to just immediately walk up to a woman as a man and say, hey, you have a beautiful dress. You have a beautiful face. Because I think that. And maybe you can help me get through this limiting belief that I have. I think that a lot of girls that have characteristics that men find attractive get told about their characteristics all the time. And what I don't want want to be is some guy that just comes up and tells her something someone told her five minutes ago. Now, would you say that that's a limiting belief for me, or would you say that there's a different approach to just go and say what you like about somebody as an initial interaction, I.

Think there's a little bit of truth. I'm not going to go up to a woman on the street and say, you have the most beautiful breasts that I've seen all day. But the things that, like, people aren't.

Really saying that that opportunity.

Yeah, there might be women who. And here's the thing. It's like part of the question again, goes back to doing my internal work. If I'm carrying baggage around this stuff, go get some freaking support and unpack that stuff and heal it. Because once I heal that stuff and I'm not anxious, I'm not up in my head, I'm not having performance anxiety. The same is just as true as approaching a girl as it is for communicating in relationship, as it is for sex within a relationship. And I'm just able to speak my desires without. Once I've done the work to get rid of that baggage, I can just go say what's true for me, and people and women can feel that. So if I go and say, you look really beautiful, and it's coming from just a genuine place where I don't have any. I'm not trying to get anything out of her. I just want to let her know that I'm enjoying, that she makes my day better because she's beautiful. I'm not trying to get anything out of her. And I think that's the place where we can get caught up is because we actually have an agenda. So the goal is to get clear on, do I have an agenda here? And if so, how can I step out of that and speak this truth of mine? Your dress. That's a beautiful dress, by the way. Probably most women don't. There are things that women love to be complimented on. They love to be complimented on how they look physically. Like, not their. And when I say that, I mean more. It's like, women typically put a lot of attention into their hair or their makeup or their outfit and stuff like that.

A lot of guys do as well.

A lot of guys do. But my experience is that women.

Well, wait. So do you want to be complimented on your outfit, Josh?

Well, I'm just wearing a basic T shirt, so sure. I mean, if you like my T shirt. Hey, make me feel better.

When you put effort into it. Do you want to get complimented on that? Do you want to be acknowledged for that?

I think so. And I loved how I feel like I'm in a coaching session right now. I love that people recognize from a place of just being genuine, like, hey, I actually like what you're wearing. You know, I like your shoes a lot now if they don't, and I can tell if they don't, I think the energy doesn't lie and maybe that's what you're talking about. You know, the energy doesn't lie. I mean, a girl, a woman, anyone's gonna be able to pick out if a guy is just kind of picking up on her. So that was actually cool. I feel like we answered the question in a quasi coaching session right there. Thank you for that. I want to transition. This is the last part of the show. This is where we get to know both of you even more. And I'm curious what will come up here. I want to ask Natalie this first question. Natalie, if there was just one thing, literally one thing, I'm going to put you on the spot that you could change about the wellness industry. What would that one thing be and why would you change it?

It would be stop focusing on the things you have to do and focus on the things that really feel good for you. Like what really feels good where and kind of having that even be the focus and intention. What would feel good on the other end of this? What would feel good about why you're doing what you're doing? What would feel good in the things you're eating? What would feel good in, like how you're working out? Like there's such a pain, suffering, kind of like energy. I think there is to wellness. Like that's what we focus on. What would it be like to focus on pleasure?

Bob, if you could go back, like hop on a little time machine and you're 18 years old and you write something on a note and you push it in the pocket of your 18 year old self. What do you think? What do you think would be on that note? And it could be about any topic, intimacy, sex, wellness, whatever it might be. What would you write on that note for your 18 year old self?

That's a really interesting question. Am I assuming that he's going to actually be able to hear what it is that I would write on the note? He's going to read it because there are a million things I could say that he wouldn't get. I mean, I think it's such interesting thinking about that because he was just about to go into a really difficult period of his life at that time. And I don't really know what I could have said that he would have actually been able to hear. And you know, it was him back then that got me where I'm at now. I wouldn't change anything for as much pain as I've gone through in my life, and I've gone through a lot in my own way. But the note that I would say would have been, the note that I would write would have been just to let him know that things are about to get really rough, it's gonna be really hard for a while, but that things are going to open up and they will change and to just tell him to really like commit to going inward and continue keeping his eyes forward on the path. Just keep moving forward on the journey.

Natalie, what is your daily mindset or meditation practice now as someone who coaches others?

So every morning I have 20 minute meditation. I do my five songs that I dance to and then I have a gratitude practice every night. And it really helps to bookend and start my day off really strong and intentional and then end it with reflection and appreciation. And I feel like that's also a way to connect to self and really take care of myself as someone that does give a lot and serves a lot. Kind of what you were mentioning earlier, you know, a lot of your listeners, it's imperative, it's crucial. I mean, I think we think of self care as a luxury, but it's essential because if we don't have our tanks full, how can really we really give to others without depleting. And so I think of it, of how can I fill my cup up so much where it's overflowing and I don't feel when I'm giving to others, it's just coming from that overflow place. And so it's so important, so, so important for self care.

Bob, what do you think the biggest lesson was for you about staying healthy, staying well while traveling? I know you do a lot of coaching. You've been traveling around the country for a long time. What does that look like for you to be well, stay well on the road?

It's to as much as I'm able, create structure while I'm on the road, stick with my practices, my routines. You know, I stretch, I meditate, do the best that I can to eat as well as I can. And there's a piece around setting myself up for success around that of planning ahead a little bit if I know I'm not Going to be able to get good food at the place where I'm going. If I'm in the airports or whatever, I stop by the grocery store and I get some food ahead of time to bring with me through the airport.

Okay, let me ask you, Natalie, when you feel stress or when you encounter any roadblocks, do you have a mantra or a message that you tell yourself to kind of push you through life's.

Difficulty one day at a time? Literally one day at a time. I think we get so anxious because we project out and it literally is one moment and even sometimes one moment at a time. Just let me just focus on this one moment, this one phone call, this one activity, this one person, and kind of just really slow it down.

Bob, what's the vision that you have, like a legacy when you're gone? What do you want to leave? What's your message that you want to leave to the world when you're no longer here?

I don't want to leave a message. I want to leave a world with especially one of my core callings is to work with men. So I want to leave a world full of men who are really in touch with themselves and who are living fulfilled, purposeful lives, whether it's in their work, in their relationship, or anywhere else.

Natalie, last question. And I'm curious, you know, with all that we've talked about today, diving into sex and relationships and intimacy and healthy boundaries, what is wellness to you? I mean, how would you define wellness? What's your personal definition of wellness?

I think wellness to me is an integration and care in all areas with the mental, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual. When all those things are operating at peak performance, where we're giving attention to them and really cultivating it and making sure it's running smoothly and effectively, and all of those things are working together, that to me is wellness.

Natalieandbob.com is where people can find you. You have private coaching. Bob has the sexually Confident man course and series and coaching modalities, but coaching for couples. People can learn more at Natalie and Bob dot com. Right? Is there anywhere else they should go to learn about you guys?

That's a great place to go.

Wellness Force radio episode 69 work through that website.

That's the place to go.

One stop shop.

Well, thank you both for what you do. I mean, you help people break the shell literally to intimacy. So this is the of part powerful. I think it's something that everyone can explore more about. Are we really looking at the baggage we're bringing onto the flight with one another. So thank you both for what you do.

Yeah. Thank you, Josh, for having us. Josh.

And thank you for those amazing questions.

Oh, yes. You made it to the end of the episode. I have to tell you, when I was editing this podcast, I had a lot of things come up. Old memories, old triggers, old things. But you know what I did? I just allowed myself to feel them. And I hope what you got from this episode was three key takeaways. Number one, it's okay to feel what you feel. Number two, how to identify when you're in the shame spiral. And number three, how to reach out for support that you deserve. I mean, listen, we are wired for a tribe. There is no way we're supposed to live this life or go on this adventure we call learning and growing alone. We're not built that way. So if you're curious about how to create the resources and the tools that you need, I'd love to help. Email me, Josh, wellnessforce.com I can give you a ton of information and point you in the right direction. Next week, a crazy, powerful episode with another surprise guest. You know I love surprise guests. Who doesn't love surprises, by the way? All right, I'll give you a hint. It has to do with food and eating real food. A big one. Tune in next Tuesday for a great episode. You get to go right now and have the most amazing day up to this point, because you're going to create it, and so will I. Let's call each other out on social this week. Wellness Force. Let me know what you're creating today. I want to see what you're up to and what's making you move closer to your wellness goals. Now get out there. Enjoy yourself. Get some sunshine on your skin, but not too much. Try to avoid that toxic sunscreen, actually. But go and have a good one. And until I see you again real soon, I'm wishing you love and wellness.