The Truth About Circumcision: Ending Male Genital Mutilation | Eric Clopper

Stop cutting the tips of boys penises off the first day or week of their life.

Circumcision was pushed to damage your sexuality. We have been duped in America to believe it has some medical purpose.

There's nothing more disinformed about consent than mutilating the genitals of a boy before he can even speak.

It's overt child abuse.

This tradition gets to die.

A lot of people in this movement describe circumcision as where sex and violence meet for the first time. The first sexual experience of most American men, Jewish men, is they are literally sexually stimulated and then feel the worst pain that they will probably feel in their entire lives as the most erogenous part of their bodies is crushed and amputated. It is not only an act of mutilation of the penis, but it causes an incredible myriad of complications that can include the loss of the entire penis or the death of the child.

How could you not look at that and say that is evil, that is wrong?

John Harvey Kellogg said, said, we need to circumcise our kids to prevent self abuse, AKA masturbation, so the child forever associates sexual pleasure with pain.

I don't think there's anything more patriarchal, dark energy wise than circumcision for young boys.

When you have your sex organs violated, mutilated as an infant, it casts a shadow on your entire life as men. Our swords are unsheathed or always irritated and ready for war. If you abuse or inflict violence on your men, you're going to damage these individuals and they will in turn be damaged and damage others, including women. So this episode is in no way against the Jewish faith or the Jewish people. I myself am Jewish and I love my Jewish friends and my Jewish family. The purpose of this episode, besides to educate and to entertain, is is to encourage others to welcome their baby boys into this world with the love and the respect that they deserve and not welcome them into this world by mutilating their sex organs. So if that message resonates with you or if you have an open mind to it, enjoy this episode of wellness and wisdom. Be sure to subscribe.

We're going to rock some heads back with this podcast. Eric Clopper, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you. I'm so happy to be here, Josh.

This was on my radar three years ago. I saw that movie American Circumcision and thank God. Shout out to Kerry Michelle, my lady, my love, that she opened my eyes to what was going on. And I'm not going to lie like this may be censored So y' all need to share this episode, because what we're talking about today is the truth about circumcision. And the truth is pretty dark, actually. Probably the darkest thing I've come across in quite some time. And also ending male genital mutilation, which is really something that's accepted for women, which we're going to go deep into. There's many layers, man, we're going to unpeel today. But for people that don't know you, 2018, you were on stage. And also shout out to our friend Luke Story, who you've been a guest. Yes. On his podcast. And, you know, you did this incredible. Absolutely incredible American love story.

What was the title of the YouTube Sex and Circumcision? An American Love Story.

Okay. And I watched the entire thing yesterday. I had an emotional process this morning about it. And, you know, my intention with this podcast is to make sure that people are educated. I'm not here to tell people what to do. I'm gonna have some emotions that come up. This is gonna be a very sad at times, a very empowering and liberating at times conversation, but it'll also bring up a lot of things that are quite uncomfortable for y'. All. So just, you know, buckle up, baby. Like, we're. We're gonna go for a ride here today. And. And some of the places we explore may not be that comfortable, but that's okay. Because nowhere in my life have I ever ridden a car of comfort and gotten everything that I wanted.

No, you really. The reason I've leaned into this so much is because I was so uncomfortable with the idea that, you know, we cut off 40% of the skin on our infant's genitals, including mine, growing up. And when I discovered that and I tried to talk about it with my friends in college, they just could not engage with the topic. You know, I was in a fraternity. I was a rugby player. Like, these guys could engage with some pretty crass topics on a routine basis. But, oh, I talk about circumcision. It's like, oh, I gotta go. I can't deal with this. Like, some people would just get overtly mad immediately. Yeah, what is going on here? Right? And then I started reading books about it, starting reading about the history and the function. And it's like no different than cutting off your eyelids or, you know, a female genitalia. It's like, okay, this is a huge problem that nobody talks about. And it's continues because nobody wants to talk about. Has no. There's no Good basis to continue to cut off.

You were so fired up, I could feel your passion. And I know that it's transformed and it's morphed inside of you in a different way. Now, you said before we recorded, like, this is this movement that you've created. It's about building bridges. It's about enacting policy change. But when you started, there was probably just an awakening. We all go through stages of truth, right. I've even heard there's a different model. First, all truth is violently opposed. Then it's accepted to a tipping point, and then it's fully accepted as truth. And I wonder, from an emotional intelligence standpoint, when you first. What age were you when you first uncovered the first layer of this veil, how old were you?

I was 19 years old.

So 19. And how old are you now?

20. Oh, 31.

31.

Okay, okay. So 1120s.

So a decade later, like, you've risen as a man to meet the demands of your mission, of your dharma on planet Earth. But for people that are just learning about this, and maybe you got this from a friend who shared it with you, the big pain body here is this. And I was meditating on this. And this is the perfect way for us to jump into the abyss together. I promise we're going to go back to the safe path, but let's go into the abyss because it's important. Once you take away a child's sexual innocence, it can almost never be given.

Back the way it was.

When these religious zealots sexually trespass and mutilate the genitals of young boys, and it sets these boys up for a lifelong journey of pain and sexual wounding. Let's begin there. What are your thoughts on what I just read?

When you have your sex organs violated and mutilated as an infant, it casts a shadow on your entire life. And it's not. And to. To approach that shadow and realize it's there is very traumatic, which is why these genital cutting cultures, including men in this culture, do not want to approach the topic. Right. But to be more sexually aware, more interpersonally aware, you need to understand what. How your body functions, what you've been through. And it's extremely upsetting, which is that anger had come out obviously, in my performance pretty palpably. It's something that you can't really ignore because I was genuine in my expression. Right.

It was one of the best talks I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot like, it was very moving because I could feel the authenticity and the Anger in you. And anger is much more powerful than despair, I think. Why your buddies and why so many people out there, maybe even so uncomfortable at the beginning of this podcast, lean into this discomfort today because this podcast has the power to change lives, to stop the harming of people when they first come into the world. I mean, that's the sadness that I'm feeling about this whole topic. I didn't know that. I didn't know. So if the genitals of young boys are being mutilated and once this sexual trespassing happens, it changes the fabric of how men interface with women or. Or however men want to relate. Right. However you want to live your life, it changes that for you. And it. And it allows you to never have a true connection of your physical being the way God nature intended it, in the way that God nature intended you to physically interface with your opposite sex or your same sex, whatever. That's the part that's most heartbreaking here. And there's a lot of research we're going to get into. There's a lot of questions I have prepared for you, but I wonder if you could extrapolate from there. Just literally the theft of innocence from a fetus.

Well, a lot of people, you said I started this movement, which isn't true. This movement's been going on for about, you know, 100 years maybe. Right. And there's always been conscientious Jewish objectors to this because it used to be just religious, then America adopted it for puritanical reasons. But a lot of people in this movement describe circumcision as where sex and violence meet for the first time. And it is because how a circumcision done is usually the baby is sexually stimulated before they cut off 40% of the skin because a baby penis, extremely small, smaller in relation because it's pre puberty. And so they're the first sexual experience of most American men and Jewish men is they are literally sexually stimulated and then feel the worst pain that they will probably feel in their entire lives. The most erogenous part of their bodies is crushed and amputated. And so it. I've heard some doulas and other nurses when they watch an infant undergo this and see the infant before and after is most babies are. Are very one. They want nothing more than their mothers. They want to be warm, they want to be loved. A lot of infants, after, you could see kind of the hope leave their eyes and say, you know what? I don't want to be here anymore on this planet. Right. It's something that just casts a shadow throughout their entire lives. And people need to, to address and heal from this trauma. But it's also something that will affect you for the rest of your life. There's no getting around that, whether it's conscious or subconscious. But the problem is if we don't deal with it as a society, it's going to continue. Right. So it's not something that I necessarily want to do and be up here, but it's like, how can we continue to allow this to happen? It is just such an obscene act on an infant. So I'm not sure if that's exactly your question. It's perfect.

Yeah, it's perfect. Yeah. Because once the spiritual path ain't for the weak.

No.

And you're on a deeply, deeply spiritual path. So I understand the challenges of this. And you know, your constitution, like y' all can see on the screen right now, there's a clip of him talking and you took your shirt off at one point and you're athletic and your constitution was built as part of your dharma here on earth so that you could handle the challenges that come with this. I know eventually there will be joy. And I know that God has already worked God's way into this and the Creator has made it so that in the very near future that joy is already here. But you're in the part of your story that you're creating that is actually the most challenging part. And the challenge of this is the same way that we talk about human rights. There's the human rights conversation, but why isn't it included that we talk about a baby's rights and a child's rights? There's such a buzzword in America specifically about informed consent. There's nothing more disinformed about consent than mutilating the genitals of a boy before he can even speak.

Well, most parents have no idea what they're doing. And because we have a for profit medical system, it's in hospitals incentives to bill for as many procedures as possible. So it's not necessarily hospitals want to harm babies, but they want to make money. And so a lot of these informed consent, and I put that in quot has absolutely no information on the tissue that they're removing, how it's removed, the incredible number and high percentage of complications, whether it be bleeding, sepsis, anesthesia complications, if they even use it, which they usually don't. But there's a law actually that's going to be voted on in the New Hampshire legislature in the next couple weeks. You know, February 2024, of mandating actual informed consent laws, where in, you know, 12 bold font say, this is medically unnecessary. These are the complications. This is what the foreskin is used for. You know, most of the sexual pleasure, all the mobility, protection. A lot of men resent the fact that they were. They may not use the word mutilated, although they should. Yeah, Right. Because if you ask a parent, would you like to mutilate your infant? They would say, no, like, don't touch my infant. But we use these Latin euphemisms, circumcision, to shield the reality of what's going on. Yeah, the.

The phrase that came up for me that hit me the hardest, and it's on the screen right now. Religious rights over human rights.

Yeah, that.

That phrase. Religious rights over human rights. I wonder if you could talk about the historical context of the religious rights. And by the way, I'm not here to promote any division or hatred or judgment of the Jews at all. Every religion has its shadow, and no religion is better than any other one. So I want to be really clear about that. Also, for people that may judge the conversation, it is an important fact to mention that you yourself are from the Jewish faith, and your family has a history and a rich lineage around being Jewish. So that's here as well. Right.

I appreciate you bringing that up, Josh, because for me, it's like, I know that I'm Jewish. I forget that I have to tell people that, because it may not be immediately obvious, but. But in terms of rights.

Yes.

Yeah. So it's a little more obvious in the play because you can actually see the words written out. Religious right, R, I, T, E versus human right, R, I, G, H, T. Yes. Right. But the Jewish religious right is it used. So Judaism used to be, and it still is in many ways progressive. It's at the forefront of a lot of ethical and humanistic causes. And when Judaism adopted genital mutilation, which is obviously a heinous act, it was actually progressive at the time, you know, 2000 BC, whatever it was, because at the time, we were actually sacrificing our children, literally killing them to appease the gods. So it rains and the crops grow. Whatever the causal theory was at the.

Time, you had said in your research, and you said in the talk on YouTube that Freud actually had spoken about it as just a slight step down from child sacrifice.

Exactly.

The child circumcision.

So instead of. Of actually killing the child, you would just mutilate an important part of him, but not so bad that he couldn't reproduce. Right. Because then your tribe dies out. And it's also a very, it's such a dramatic act because as a parent and you could speak to this more than I can, but I'm sure you have a very strong impulse to protect your child, make sure he or she is well taken care of and loved and grows up to have a better life than yours.

Right? Yeah.

And so you have to overcome that impulse if you're doing this in a religious sense, because there are many stories of Jewish mothers crying as they give their child up to the mould. You know, the ritual child mutilator is you have to actually give, you have to overcome that impulse to protect your child. That is a sacrifice to the tribe and it's something that you cannot fake. Right. So it was a way to signal your buy in to the group and, you know, thousands of years ago and not even, not even that, you know, a thousand years ago or less, you need your group support to survive. Right. I mean, you can't be a solo operator nowadays. It's much easier to do so. But you needed the support, whether it be protection, food being taken care of when you're sick. You know, the world used to be much harsher. So if you're born into any tribe, you really need to play along to get along or you're not going to survive. And so this was a way to create cohesion among the Jewish tribes is we, you know, virtually mutilate our children together. Now, thankfully, there's a lot of reform and humanistic Jews who are advocating to protecting all children. And that's where we need to lean into. But because as you alluded to earlier, whether it be on film or not, the Jewish people have had a lot of trauma. And so they perceive any change as a potential threat to their existence. And it's like. And that's why myself, my boss, who's a seasoned litigator who will be doing important litigation on this front with me, it's, it's helpful that we are Jewish because we're not advocating for our own demise, anyone else's. We just want Jewish children to be protected. Other children, all other children to be protected.

Right.

But there's a lot of emotional energy attached to this and it's hard to deal with that rationally.

Eckhart Tolle talks about this concept of the pain body. And I think if you look at the darker side of patriarchy, that women still feel the pain body of that. And also now as men, we're starting to feel the pain body of the deleterious aspects of feminism. Now, I know you called yourself a feminist during that talk. I don't know if that's shifted for you at all. I think any movement starts out with some. Some good grace, with some purity, because the level of consciousness that the tribe has at that time, like you said 2000 years ago, maybe that was the best they could do with the consciousness they had. So I'm not here to pit patriarchy against feminism. I'm not interested in that game. What I am interested in is can we be honest and humble with the level of consciousness that we have in any given moment so that our secrets don't weigh us from being wise? Because the more I hold on to lies, the more I don't share and the more I don't look in the mirror. And I'm not just talking about Judaism. It's all faiths have. They have their shadow. There's this one quote that I want to read here, and it was so powerful. And I wonder how you feel about this now. Okay, it's going to take a minute, but it's literally the weight of this conversation that I feel through these words. Forced circumcision is a profound loss. This is a delusion of normality supported by cultural terminology. Why? So the current generation of circumcised adults doesn't have to face the very unwelcome reality that we have been deprived of an essential human experience. So we deprive our children of that too to maintain this lie. The worst part of it is that it compels you. It compels you to circumcise your child the same way you are circumcised. There's no such thing as sons wanting to look like their fathers. It's fathers that want their sons to look like them. Otherwise, those fathers will be consistently reminded that of the parts of their humanity that was stolen from them when they see their child's entire genitalia. That is the darker psychological mechanism behind the I want him to look like me trope. How does that land for you now compared to 2018?

I think it resonates just as much now as it did back then. Because the reason that all these fathers want their sons to look like them is because if they see this intact penis, it's going to of their son, because that's how every man is born. It's going to remind them that they do not look like that. It's going to bring up that emotion that they suppress that, oh, I have this scar on my genitals. And they may not even know it's a scar because it's been there for so long. And it forces them to. To.

Address.

Why do I feel uncomfortable with this conversation? Why does my son look different than me if I can hide this reality by cutting my son? Because most adult, married, heterosexual men with children probably don't see that many penises that often, right? And if they're America, if they're in America, they probably see other American men in a locker room or whatever. So it creates this delusion that everybody looks like you. And I don't have to address why there are. Most men in the world have a foreskin and the head of the penis is covered. So it is this collective lie that America has bought into and now it is too difficult to get out. Or at least for. For most men. But the problem with that is, I wouldn't mind if. I mean, it's unfortunate because you can't really be in touch with your body and be as in close in touch with reality and make the best decisions for our children. It wouldn't be such a bad thing if it didn't require the continued mutilation of children every day, right? So the reason we do it is because it's too uncomfortable to address the fact that it was done to us, right? And that is just such a tragedy because as men, we're supposed to be better than that. We're supposed to. And women as well. But as men, we can relate more to the male energy, so to speak, is we should be doing what is best for our children. And that is to protecting them from this. Even if that means, we have to admit, you know, something terrible happened to us.

Eric, to me, you know, this feels like. It feels like an unconscious addiction to shame. So on an unconscious level, the parents that don't even know, they don't know. So if you look at the. The four stages of learning, right? First there's the unconscious incompetence. And then you eventually work your way up to just being unconsciously competent. Yeah, yeah, But. But what's so interesting about this is that from an emotional intelligence lens, if somebody were to zoom 50, 000ft above their life with no judgment, just as the observer, and look down and see a child being mutilated and the tip of his penis being cut off or even bit off, and then the blood being sucked out of it, and just the absolute demonic atrocity that circumcision actually is, you would have zero justification for allowing that to continue. If we were to float above our conditioning and look down on what's actually happening, everyone's heart. I don't care if you're the darkest of the darkness, dark, the lightest of the light, the young, the old. We would look down on that moment and see this young boy on his very first entrance to life, being harmed in such a tragic way that we could not stop ourselves from putting a hand in. In and saying no, we would have to. If we had a soul.

Yeah.

So it's this disconnection from our soul. And it brings up so much emotion in me because I'm a father and I saw American Circumcision three years ago. Thank you so much. That I saw that, that I just came across that. And I can remember even feeling like, of course I would have my. My child circumcised. That was my old conditioning.

Yeah.

Before I woke up to the fact that I could see my own life from the sky and I could realize, wow, this is just one way of many ways that I and all of us are conditioned to be in this culture of sexual violence and of violence towards children and of violence towards other people, even violence toward ourselves. And that violence is propagated from where? Like, if. If you had to put a finger on where this violence. Where. Where did it come from? Where did the violence come from that I'm talking about? Where did this violence emanate from, this energy of violence?

Well, I think life used to be much harsher.

Right.

And so maybe the violence was. Was necessary to harden yourself to the realities of life. I have no idea where it came from, but it perpet itself. It's like any type of child abuse. Those who have been abused are more likely to abuse their children.

Yeah. Right.

Now, I would. I'm not a psychologist. I can't exactly speak to the psychological mechanisms behind that, but I think the reason maybe you would continue to abuse your children, more likely because you're abused, is it justifies what happened to you. Right. And so it's this thing that it happened to you. So I'm going to justify that behavior by doing it to other people. And that's essentially where we are now. Now the rates are decreasing, which is great because of people like you. You know, I'm trying to put a stop to this as soon as possible, but if people are not informed, it's easier, like you said, to subconsciously continue what has happened to you because then you don't have to deal with it.

Yeah. Okay, so pulling the E break here. This has been going on for. For thousands of. And honestly, like, it brings up so much emotion. To me, I'm earlier on the scale than you are. Are. So you came across this when you were 19? Yeah. And you've been processing and working through the stages of, you know, anger and grief and acceptance, and now you're in inspired action. So you're practicing law. You have a firm, and the link is on the screen right now, and you're really putting, like, pen to paper and foot to pavement on this, where you're doing it in a way that, honestly, many people, when they first come across this atrocity, this trauma that is happening to boys, I can't think of a more uncomfortable and also a reason why people might turn their cheek and pretend that it's okay in the same way that I used to. I didn't think it was a big deal in the past. I didn't. But I was on the phone yesterday, and I promise I'll get to the question. That's right.

Yeah.

I was on the phone yesterday with my lady, and I said, you know, I think I'm actually gonna get some really deep healing from this interview with Eric. And I think a lot of us will, because talking to the men, right? Like, have you ever. Men felt since the beginning of your memory that just something was hurting or that you've had grief your whole life, or that you just knew something was wrong, but yet you couldn't put your finger on it? Well, could it possibly be that when we came into the world in the first day or week of our life, that we were traumatized and cut into and mutilated in a way that was justified by religious right? And could that justification of harming a child, harming a fetus as they just barely are entering the world, could that set up on an amygdala, neurological basis that we would then bring that wounding to women, that we would actually abuse women and abuse our sexuality with pornography and unconscious sex? And because we ourselves or trespassed on.

I think that's exactly what happens is when you are so horribly maimed, and if you can watch a circumcision. Right. These babies scream.

It's literally the worst. It makes me want to vomit.

Yeah.

It makes me want to throw. Yeah.

I. I can't watch it, really. But sometimes if you. If you can't watch it, but you're gonna do it to an infant.

Right.

That should be a signal right there.

Yeah. But I think you would think bring some levity to this, right?

Exactly.

Sometimes evil has so much humor in it. It's like, how the. Could you not see it for what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I can't watch that. But we can do it to our children. It's like, are you. How can you defend that position anyways? I think a lot of men, including myself, especially upon reflection, is to avoid processing this extreme trauma is you kind of blunt your receptors to your emotions, including your interpersonal connections, including your sexual relationships. And so it. It's a shield of experiencing life, because if you start to really open yourself up, you begin to open yourself up to this horrific experience, which is definitely my reaction. And that's. I think, when I mentioned earlier, trying to talk to my other friends in college, they didn't want to deal with this because then they're going to have to deal with their feelings of being strapped down and having the most erogenous part of their penis cut off and all of the negative effects, sexual and otherwise, that that deals with. And also feelings of betrayal from your parents. You know, the two people in the world who. Who are there to love you and protect you and to realize that, you know, they made a mistake or that they failed you or that they intentionally harmed you, whatever your feeling is, whether it be true or not. So to. But if you're going to blunt that feeling, you. I don't think that there's a. A way to blunt that feeling and not all your other feelings as well. You kind of detach yourself from your human experience.

So true.

And that's why America, I think, is so, you know, we're always the warmongers because we don't have the empathy that. That, you know, men who have not undergone extreme trauma innately have. As human beings, as mammals.

It's.

It's. And if you look at the Middle east, that's almost an entire genital mutilating area. Right? And they're the ones in chronic wars. I've spoken with Elliot Hulse about this. He said, well, as men are, our swords are unsheathed, right? It's like we're always irritated and ready for war. We don't have that. You know, I mean, it's a good metaphor. I don't know how true it is, but it's a way to visualize this.

This is so painful, yet so good like that. This is a bittersweet conversation. I'm happy. I'm grateful that you're in the world and that you live and that your dharma is expressing itself. It's also so bitter. It's such a bitter pill to swallow knowing that I almost did that to my son. Like, it. It Touches me on such a deep level because I love my son so much.

I'm so grateful that you saw American Circumcision in time.

Oh, me too.

Because, I mean, it would be so hard for me to understand what happen to me and then to do it to my child and realize. And that's why there's so much resistance to the message, because it's like, why wouldn't her harm my child?

Listen, my ego is open to being decimated. Anytime my child's safety is in question, I don't give a fuck if my ego needs to be completely burned to the ground. And all of us should actually be open to that. Our ego being burned to the ground, especially when it comes to the welfare of our sons. You came to your father and you said, this is what I found. This is the truth of what I found. What did he say to you?

Essentially threw it back in my face and said, oh, you know, this is good for you. And I didn't have a very high opinion of my father's, let's say, intelligence and reasoning in general. I'd say my mother is kind of the brains of the group, and I grew up in a matriarchal household, but it was just so bitter and malevolently thrown back in my face. And I was so angry, and I was like, okay, you know, I'm gonna put a stop to this, and under any means necessary. And so then I. That was kind of like the. That was the dharma the moment. It was like, I can't have people like you in this world mutilating infants and telling them it's good for them. It's like, this is radically unacceptable, and I will do whatever is necessary. And that is what drove the incredible amount of commitment and rage in that performance. And I think, you know, as you. You've seen it. You can understand that. And I. Him, seeing how horrifically he wounded me, really checked his ego because it wasn't necessarily about him. It was, wow, I've really failed fundamentally as a father, and I couldn't deal with that. And so he's come a long way in that regard. I mean, the damage was done. And, you know, we were estranged for five to seven years somewhere along that.

So he didn't speak to you for five to seven years just because of the truth you. You uncovered and how much it hit his conditioning from his own faith?

Well, I didn't speak to him because it was. I can't be around somebody who's going to mutilate me, tell me it's for my betterment and mock and belittle me for it, especially someone who is. Has no grounds to do that to me. And I had a much bigger ego back then too. And so it was, it was just, it was a. I could feel the pure essence of rage around him and it was just not healthy to be even near that. So I was pretty much totally estranged from my family and, you know, broke my mother's heart because she immediately apologized and understood, you know, she was just doing what they.

She do. She was told, yeah, just like her mother and your great, great, greats.

Yeah, yeah. So it was, you know, we've come a long way and my family doesn't circumcise anymore. But to understand that you've done something so horrible to your son and it's something that your religion has or used to hold in such high esteem, it's a real identity and ego check. And a lot of men don't want to undergo that. Yeah, right. So it's. I'm going to fight that instead of really address it.

Well, it's not an easy thing to face as yourself in the mirror. That's a hard thing to look at sometimes. Right. Because then there actually has to be an emotional inventory of truth about the life you've created, about the husband or wife. You have, like, everything in your life. When you honestly look in the mirror with no filter, psychedelics, breathwork, peak experiences can be a powerful fucking lens for this. Because when you look in the mirror of truth and you actually see what's looking back, it can be so confronting and it can be such a retching process that one has to have the spiritual courage, the spiritual maturity to actually even look in the mirror in the first place. And so I think what's going on, and I'm curious how you feel about this, is that the Jewish faith is having to look in the mirror, much like all faiths have to look in the mirror. And the reason I say that is because I don't want someone taking a sound bite of this. Yes. And trying to come after me. Right. Because if you watch the whole interview, you know, this is not against Jewish people. This is actually for humanity. That's the, that's the game I'm interested in playing. So I'm gonna pre frame my statements like that every time I say something that might be, you know, construed as censor worthy.

Yeah.

So my, my intention with this question is like, okay, if we look in the shadow and we look in the mirror as, as Christians, as Jews, as Muslims, as Human beings based on a belief set, which is really what religion is. It's a belief set.

That's it.

We believe a certain story. Does that belief make us more loving and connected? Or does that belief make us hate each other and more disconnected? Personally, I think many religions, almost all in the world, are disconnecting people. And so on the screen right now, there is a clip of a local rabbi in Monse, New York, and he was accused of infecting babies with herpes. And this clip is really gross. We're not actually going to show the clip right now, but for y' all watching on YouTube and Spotify, literally. The religious leader, what was his name again? The Moyle.

The Moyel is the ritual circumciser. Rabbis are religious leaders. Often they're the same people.

Okay.

I think you have to get certified. I don't know.

Certified?

Yeah, I mean, they probably use a different word that's more religious, but ordained.

Tell us what we're actually. Tell us what we actually saw. Why? There was this incredible controversy. This baby now has herpes from this rabbi. And in Monse, New York, it caused an incredible storm of just controversy. Rightly so. What was that controversy all about? And what is the practice of the rabbi? Actually, this is the most disgusting thing. Biting the tip of the penis off and then sucking the blood out of it for a fetus.

Well, the reason that this came to light is because Orthodox Jewish communities, they're very insular. They're not talking to other people who are outside the community. Right? But when you have dead bodies, when you have dead babies, babies who are horribly maimed and their brains are totally fried from these STDs that the morals are giving them, you can't hide that.

Right?

And that becomes a huge news story. So the reason that that only came to light is because infants were dying. But, sorry, what was the question?

Like, what.

How did that come to be?

What is this practice? What is it? This biting of the head of the penis and sucking the blood. How could it not be demonic? Even if you were 5ft or 50,000ft, how could you not look at that and say, that is evil. That is wrong.

Well, it is evil and it is the root of at least some historical anti. Semitism. Right? Because it's one thing. Oh, I'm the chosen people. Okay, that's kind of arrogant. And. But people can get over it because a lot of Jewish people are nice, whatever, but, oh, I'm the chosen one, and I'm going to ritually mutilate my infant and tear his penis apart with my sharpened fingernails and suck on his bloody penis. That's a legitimate criticism. It's a societal harm that is a huge problem to be part of your society. Right. So some of the roots of anti Semitism come from this horrifically evil practice. Right. And so what was happening in the 1800s is babies were dying from not just so babies would often. This is before the 1800s, when a Moyo would use his sharpened fingernails to shred the genitals off of a child, the foreskin, some of the babies would bleed out and die. Right. And that was horrible for everybody in the whole community. It's not like Jewish people wanted to kill their infants. But this horrific mutilation caused infections, blood loss, death, all of this parade of horribles. Right? So what rabbis did this was probably back in the turn of the millennium, is they instituted a new practice called matsitsa papa sucking, which is after they'd shred the infant's genitals, they would suck on the bleeding penis. It's kind of like if you get a cut, you may suck on it to stop it bleeding. That was kind of the thought, right?

Makes me nauseous.

But. But it's. It seems overtly sexual to me to perform bloody fellatio on an infant. I mean, it's, it is. It's horri. Disgusting and it spreads diseases and kills infants. So this kind of came to light not long ago and there was a huge out outcry, as there should be. Right. I mean, if I was in charge, I'd make that illegal overnight. I mean, come on. And I think the vast majority of Americans feel the same way, but they.

Just don't know that. They don't know.

They don't know. Yeah. And you know, people are wary of step, you know, criticizing. Well, that would be anti Semitic. It's like, well, okay, you know, we need to address this because if you're harming infants, you know, this is nothing to do with any animus towards any group, racial, ethnic, religious. This is just what is in the best interest of children.

This is where we see the ad hominem, the straw man, the steel man, and the anti Semitism conversation happen is literally, and I say this with respect, right? Because like, the Jewish people have been through so much and there's no words that I could say that would assuage the sadness and the bereavement that they've been through. So I say this with ultimate respect. But when you develop a culture or an identity that you are not allowed to be Challenged by anyone's opinion. If your way of being is right or wrong, that is actually dictatorship. And that is the opposite of love. That is the opposite of progress. And so when people are challenging this brutal child mutilation ritual in the Jewish community, they're labeled as anti Semitic, which is honestly, in a way, it's ad hominem. It's also straw man. It's not actually dealing with the real issue that we're trying to address here, which is, hey, let's actually not harm children. It has nothing to do with religion or harming Jewish people or judging Jewish people. It's the opposite. It's, how do we make humanity less wounded so that you and I, as men, and hopefully the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that feel and hear and see this conversation can. Can shorten the suffering of the women from the treatment of men that they themselves are wounded? This is my own healing that's coming through in real time, dude. That's what this is all about. I had massive sex addiction, pornography, unconscious sex. And when I traced it all the way back in the past week, especially yesterday and today, I started to feel this heaviness in my chest. And in Chinese medicine, the grief is felt in the chest. So I started to cough yesterday. I've been coughing out sputum, and I've just been feeling this heaviness on my chest. And I was messaging my lady this morning, and I'm like, wow, what's the ultimate healing that I. And literally, I think it's 120 million men in America, Right? That was the data you presented that have had circumcision.

That's right.

None of this. Think about this, y'. All. You can't even fathom this number. 120 million babies were never asked. They were never asked, hey, can we cut off the tip of your penis for this ritual religious sacrifice? They were never asked. And so how could that not be traumatic? And how could we, even in any world as men, not unconsciously wound women because of the wounding that we ourselves have experienced from parents who simply did not know There needs to be a coming to Jesus, a coming to whoever, a coming to our creator on this, and an honest look in the mirror here about where do we go from here? And actually, Keri, Michelle asked me, and I would love for you to share, both personally and professionally, because you're going to get a lot of people coming to you for the healing that they themselves are going through with grief felt first for men like you and I that have been wounded in our first day or week of life where we've been mutilated in our sex organ and that have potentially even taken that trauma and abuse and projected it onto women in our life. Wherever and however we're hearing this information, this. This inspiring education right now, what does the healing path look like for us? How do we begin to heal? How did you begin to heal your own trauma around your sex organ? And what amends did you have to make to yourself and others? And how did that process of healing even look like for you?

Well, I think you're more familiar with the. The official stages of healing, but the first is awareness. Right. Is I've kind of numbed myself to interpersonal relationships. And I think engaging in those behaviors that, you know, generally mutilated individuals may do. Right. Whether it be compulsive sex or masturbation or pornography or whatever, it may be not being able to connect with your sexual partner as well. Maybe. I think those are the behaviors before you become aware. And becoming aware you may feel. And certainly I did, is discomfort, rage. Real, real pure rage.

I could.

Couldn't imagine anything more legitimate to be upset about than having been violently robbed of 40% of the skin on your sex organ.

Right.

And most of the erogenous tissue and all that. So too, I think it's. It's hard to get to a healing stage without processing your feelings around this. And there's no right or wrong feeling. But for me, I was extremely, extremely. Upset's not the right word. It's rage.

Right.

And I think it's good to process that because it's not like it goes away if you don't process it. It's just manifest in other ways, whether it be abusive in your sexual relationships, your other relationships, maybe in your. Your international, like, on a country level relationship, being violent to other countries and less empathetic. Right. So that's so wild.

You talked about Elliot Hallis. Our. Our swords are unsheathed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like, wow, the connection set men. 120 million men who have been horribly violated.

Our swords are out of their sheath 24 7, 365 from the jump.

Exactly.

How could we not invite war on an energetic level?

And if you look at the warring nations, most of them are generally mutilating.

Right.

It's just. It's Middle East America. Those are kind of the hotbeds of.

I want to let you finish because the healing question is really important. It's so important. And I want to know the layers of. To which you went. Because I think it's really important for all of us. But if you could float back way on the timeline to like B.C. i just wonder, I wonder. And some could call this a rabbit hole. I don't really care. When I watched Ancient Civilization civilizations on Gaia, when I actually saw the Ancient Civilization series on Gaia and I learned about Anki and Enlil and the way in which we had and part of our genealogy removed from us, the part that we knew we were from God. We knew that we had been created by a creator. We knew that love was all there is, but that part was actually taken out of our genome. I wonder if that was the origin of the justification of sexual mutilation for boys and also for girls as well, which is, you know, the girl conversation. It's widely accepted that it's horrific to mutilate girls genitals, horrific twofold. As you go back to the question on healing, why do you think that it's so accepted for the female genitalia to be not mutilated and how horrible that is, why is it so accepted that it's not okay and it's, it's actually dark and evil to mutilate female genitals, yet it's widely accepted that it's okay to mutilate male genitals at birth?

Well, it's widely accepted in the western culture.

Right.

In our culture. But in the cultures that circumcise or mutilate their females, it's widely accepted to do that there.

Right.

So where we grew up, it was widely accepted to condemn female genital mutilation, although laws have only protected them for about 30 years, which is something we'll get into. I think it's only widely accepted because people don't want to address what has happened to them.

Right.

And in this country, and I've heard this before, but oftentimes we humanize females, but we also see them as sex objects and we see men as success objects and it's okay to sacrifice their well being. We don't, we don't humanize them as well. We don't have as much empathy for our men. And that causes a lot of antisocial, maladaptive behavior, a lot of societal problems, rape, violence, all the, you know, men are the biggest perpetrators of that. And there could also be hormonal issues and physical issues and all that. It's hard to separate, you know, why, but I think general mutilation is a huge part of that. But to, to round back to the healing, a lot of people I've Thousands and thousands of emails and messages, and I haven't responded to all of them. And I feel bad, but at one point it's like, do I respond in one sentence? Do I. I can't write everybody, right? Why not Making, like enough right now to, to hire. I mean, we have employees who are excellent and team members at our law firm, but we, we litigate cases. Right. This is not like a full time thing for me when I start. And we're about to do important litigation soon. And I'd like to sue many states around the country on this because that's how gay marriage became widely adopted. Is it state by state? And that's what we're going to do with protecting baby boys.

It just feels, and that's a great point you made. It just feels like they're so separate. Like one of them is how somebody wants to live their life, how they want to love people. The other one is actually not mutilating and harmonious, harming babies. Like they're so. They seem so different.

Yeah, well, because then we'd have to say, oh, we've been mutilating and harming our babies. It's like, yes, that is exactly what we've been doing. But to, to. That's why we call it circumcision for males and female genital mutilation for boys. Right. But the genitals on the male and female, they're homologous, meaning that they develop as the same structures in utero, in the woman's, you know, uterus. And they're actually the same structures we're cutting off.

Right.

The, the male foreskin is actually the most innervated part on the penis. So we're, we're performing the same sex crime on, in male infants as the ones that we can widely condemn and rightly outcry against females. Right. So it makes no sense. Right. And we're trying to shine a light on that and put a stop to that. But to kind of round back to your question with healing. Well, so many people reach out to me and I feel, I feel a certain sense of guilt in that one. I'm not a professional healer.

Right.

Like, I, I don't.

Well, we all have to be if we want to live.

Well, exactly. When I try to take care of the people in my life and to take care of all the children, you know, at least in terms of protecting them from general mutilation, to do what I can. But I would not say I am an expert on the healing. I think awareness and time is very important. I Used to get used to be big into meditation, you know, 10, 15, 20 minutes every morning. Just feel. What do I feel around this? And it was a lot of rage, a lot of processing that, you know, there are certain things you can do to. Because I. I don't identify. I don't want to identify as someone who is generally cut part of a group that ritually mutilates their infants. That's not someone I want to be. Right. Even if that identity may have been imposed on me in part. So you could do certain things like for restoration, where just like you can stretch your earlobes or your neck out, you can stretch part of the foreskin out and actually cover the head of the penis.

Have you done that?

To. To an extent.

Right. And how was that process for you?

It takes forever, like two to 15 years.

So you're literally growing back your foreskin to a.

To a.

To a part.

To an extent. Right. Like you can get enough skin that covers the head of the penis.

Okay.

Because the head of the penis is very analogous to your eyeball. I mean, it's is more analogous to the clitoris, but most men have no idea where that is or what to do with that.

Right.

So an eyeball is a more familiar analogy and that your eye is often exposed to the world. Right. But it has this protective mucosal covering which lubricates it, makes it functioning, makes it sensitive, makes it fully operational. The head of the penis is much like that in that it has a mucosal covering that keeps it warm, sensitive, receptive to touch. It increases the intensity of orgasm. So you can recover like a fair amount of the function, but obviously not all of it, because this is highly specialized mucosa that they amputate. That they amputated from you as niffin. Right. So. But it also can provide some psychological relief because you look like an intact man. Like, because the head of the penis is not supposed to be exposed at all times. That is not. There is no mammal on the planet does not have a foreskin. Right. It's like cutting off the eyelids of an infant and then saying, oh, this is what you're supposed to look like. Of course it's not. But because we're so sexually averse and we have almost no sex education and you know, I was certainly. I include myself as a member of this, like, so ignorant of how normal sexuality and anatomy is supposed to function. It was so uncomfortable discussing it. We just. We've all committed to this lie, and it's just something that's no longer Tenable. And at this point, there's about a 50% circumcision rate in the U.S. so this. This reckoning is coming, right? This epiphany. It's already pretty much. I mean, look at you. You're like, three years ago, you. You know, this was not something that you were passionate about. Now it's. This is so important because we can't live in a society that continues to mutilate its infants.

Well, when you start to do your own healing work. And I love how you said awareness and time, because I think that is true no matter what it is.

Yeah.

You know, for my heart goes out to people that have experienced capital T, sexual trauma, or lowercase T. You know, there's many traumas, lowercase T. It takes awareness. But in order to even have awareness, y' all have to have the courage to even take a look. I think that is. I almost. I mean, I want to. It's not like we're in a debate here. Like, I'm on your side. Like, I want the same thing you want, which is to not harm children and to allow children to enter the world, little boys to enter the world and not be completely maimed and sexually disfigured. But. But I will push back on this because in the beginning of before, awareness has to come the courage to even be aware. And I think that happens in our soul naturally if we haven't been stifled so much. And it's no judgment on people that don't have the courage, because I think a lot of times maybe they've heard that in order to have courage, you have to, like, not be afraid, which is complete bullshit. Courage is actually developed in the face of fear. I don't have courage because I don't have fear. I have courage because I face my fear. That's the whole point of having courage. So it's not a knock or a shame on our parents, our grandparents, or our great greats. I wonder if now is we're in such an expansion of consciousness and the only way our consciousness can expand individually and collectively is if we are honest about the healing that we need that is actually coming to us. In other words, we can't have the courage unless we're looking in the face of fear, which stops a lot of people. Then we also can't have the healing we need unless we have the awareness, which is the first stage you spoke about. And then we also can't give ourselves the time unless we're being open to the healing itself. So there's a lot that is Being called forth from the human soul, individually and collectively. Right now, I wonder if you could wave a magic wand or in some of your teachings. I almost feel like you could have a course online about this. You know, if you're so busy with litigation, maybe even thinking about hiring someone to work with you so that men like myself and tens and hundreds of thousands and even millions of men can go through a healing journey around the tip of their penis being cut off and how that's completely annihilated their relation to sexuality in women. Gosh, it just seems like we need so much more education and so much more bolstering of awareness. What do you make of that? Because what you're doing is very powerful, but it won't save everyone. It won't allow everyone to even develop the courage or even be so honestly angry and go through their first stage of development where they do want to even receive the healing because of this cognitive dissonance. What do you make of that?

Well, I think there's two different. There's multiple types of healing, right? There's the personal healing on the individual level, which is most important to each person. Right. And then there's societal healing. We don't need every man who was harmed, who's mutilated, circumcised, whatever you want to call it, to go through that personal healing.

Right?

I mean, it would be great. It would probably be in their. Their soul's interest, their spiritual interest, their interpersonal interest, but it's just not. Not something that's going to happen. Right? And then there's, I think, the way for societal healing, which is a little more accessible and more abstract, obviously, is to. To implement laws and statutes protecting children, say, look, we're not going to do this anymore. At least, at the very least, we're not going to use taxpayer dollars to fund it. Right? I mean, that's something that's already in the works in many states. It's already. And it's something that we could continue to push. But in terms of personal healing, it's something that, like you said, it is an act of courage to. To even address or to approach, let alone address the feelings that arise when you understand that you were strapped to a table and had 40% of the skin on your penis violently removed. Right? So what is extremely helpful, I think, is people like you who actually introduced this conversation to say, look, this is something that you can address and you should address and that we need to discuss. Because what a lot of people, especially as a Jewish guy growing up, is it's something that there is a, you feel that there's this dark energy around it and that everyone is going to isolate and ostracize you if you, you bring up what you feel about this issue. So we want to encourage people to lean in. And I think that there's a huge, there is a huge movement of people doing that. So hopefully the, the threshold, the moving energy required to address this is lessening with time. Because the conversation around child mutilation and genital mutilation, that's a, that's in the zeitgeist now, right?

Yeah.

And this is something that is, you know, independent of, you know, that, you know, flashpoint controversy. This is something that I think can unite people, is we want to protect children, those who have no autonomy, those who, who, who have no decision making capacity. But if you look at intact men, men who are not circumcised, they don't cut off 40% of their penis at, you know, when they're adults, they enjoy that and they want that. And so there's really no, there's no serious debate around this issue. It's just something that people, as you said, they don't want to deal with that trauma.

It's a. Interesting story I'll tell, and some may resonate, some won't, but that's fine. I'm gonna be authentic and just fucking tell you. And it's the story about cutting the ham before you put it in the oven. So a few years back, there was a woman in a home and she noticed that her mother would cut the sides of the ham and put it in the oven. And she would ask her mom, mom, why do you cut the sides of the ham and put it in the oven? And her mom said, oh, because grandma did it that way. And so the grandchild went to the grandmother and she said, hey, grandma, why do you cut the sides of the ham before you put it in the stove that way? And she said, oh, well, because my mother told me that. And she said, do you have any photographs or do you have any old pictures of your house? And she saw in the old house from the great great grandparents that there was a stove that was so tiny they had to cut the sides of the ham to put it in the stove. But yet we live in a world with a bigger stove. And the way this is still being played out in my story is, you know, there's a cutting of the ham, there's a cutting of the penis. It's a crude way to describe it, but the, the metaphor in the story could not be more true. Just because something has always been done or because something is tradition does not mean that it has a valid reason to exist now.

Exactly.

Period, end of story, full stop. Think about how many traditions need to die on earth right now. Not just the mutilation of boys, genitals, the first day or week of their life. This is a call for us to take an honest look at many different things about tradition that need to fucking die. What do you make of that?

I agree. Right. I agree that there's incredible amount of harmful tradition right now.

Some tradition is great.

I agree. And some of it's benign. Right. I think like Christmas tree, Hanukkah, you know, I would say Christmas tree, although that's part of the Christmas tradition. Right. But Hanukkah, Passover, these things that connect us to our ancestors and the hardships and kind of bring our families together. It doesn't have to be just Judaism.

Sure.

What I'm most familiar with, but yeah. So those are life affirming and positive traditions and they bring families together. There are other traditions that may be benign. The cutting of the ham is somewhat benign. You lose some good, you know, you lose food or whatever. But it's not like.

But it had an original purpose.

Yeah, it did.

It wasn't about harming people. It's because the oven was too small.

Exactly. And, and so I think I see my role as being pretty focused. Right. Because you know, there are arguments on, on both sides of most issues.

How could there possibly be an argument on the other side of mutilating children? How could that even fucking exist?

Well, I was saying most issues. Right, Most issues.

Okay.

Yeah, seriously. But, but so what? A lot of my Jewish brethren do, and mostly men, I think, but they, they impute some exceptional importance to the fact that, you know, I've been mutilated and I mutilate my children. They don't use the word mutilate, they use the word circumcise because it hides the reality. Yeah, right. It's like, oh, it must, God must have wanted this because my great great grandfather, my great grandfather and my grandfather, my father did this. So there must be some importance to this. And it's because they put such value on the label of being Jewish. But this is the physical, I guess, reality of it. It's something that can't be faked. But at the same time, what about all of my Jewish sisters and the woman? They're just as Jewish as men are. And they don't have to be ritually mutilated Right. So it's actually somewhat misogynistic in that way as well. And no one is advocating, well, we need to start circumcising our females as well. Right. So I, I think to, to come to terms with what has happened to you and what may you maybe you've done to your son or what's happened to your nephews or brothers is you have to ascribe some value to this horrible experience and loss that you've suffered. And so it's, it's, it's a psychological delusion that, oh, well, it must have been important because otherwise it wouldn't have been done. Right. I think it's, it's more this just big psychological delusion, which is hard to come to terms to. But Jewish people, a lot, you know, a lot of us have been on the forefront of important human rights. I mean, there's a lot of Jewish lawyers who've advocated for gay marriage and legalization of, you know, plants or marijuana or, you know, whatever it may be.

Yeah, yeah.

So this is one of those things that just like we no longer stone adulterers to death, we no longer slaughter fattered calves, we should no longer generally mutilate our infants. That's in that same category of horrific biblical evils. Right.

So.

And it's something that other countries have tried to, to outlaw. Like in Denmark, there's like an 80% consensus among the public that we should make this illegal. And America came in hot and said, look, if you do this, we're gonna, we're gonna have economic sanctions. We're gonna label you as, you know, anti Semitic Nazis, blah, blah, blah. And so we just need people of courage. And right now it's going to be people where I'm looking for states of courage because I'm going to start bringing this issue in various states soon.

You need to bring it here to Texas. I mean, if there's any. It's Texas and Florida and Tennessee that can begin this conversation on a grand scale.

Well, and I'd love to. So I have a state of mind and I'm not gonna say it right now, although people will find out in the immediate future. Cause I have a great plaintiff because I'm looking for plaintiffs right now. And I have a brilliant, kind, young, soft spoken man. His name is Mason. And he just fundamentally understands what happened to him was wrong. He doesn't hold his parents or something responsible. He wants people to be educated. He wants, he wants all children to be protected and not have these anti female genital mutilation laws. Which are great. And I, you know, we should applaud, but. But they discriminate on the basis of gender. They only protect females, and we need to protect all children. And that's what Mason wants for his state. Right? And so I have, myself and I have brilliant people at University of Cambridge and some, my boss, my, myself, we're working on drafting his complaint right now. And essentially the argument, and this is the benefit of what I see this litigation is, is like we've discussed at somewhat depth, men don't want to address this. Right? It's just something that's easier to sweep under the carpet. But the unfortunate reality is that perpetuates the mutilation and as men and as women. But we need to do what's in the best interest of our children, and that is to address this now and to stop the bleeding, the literal bleeding, pain, mutilation. And so what we're going to be doing is we're going to be suing various states to say, look, it's great you have this anti female genital mutilation law, but it discriminates on the basis of gender. And in your state constitution, you prohibit laws that discriminate on the basis of gender. So you could do one of two things. You could have no protection, which is not going to happen because we all agree baby girls need to be protected, or you could protect all children from genital mutilation. And that's where we're going to. We're going to be pursuing Mason's lawsuit in his home state in the immediate future. And if I can raise the resources, if we can raise the resources, then my law firm will pursue that litigation in many states. But this is a very intensive operation. Takes a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of support to effectively litigate these important constitutional issues. So I would love to do Texas, Tennessee, Florida, you name it. But the things that, the way that we understand the legal theory right now, that state needs to have in its constitution a guarantee that laws will not discriminate on the basis of gender. And if that, we could also sue on the theory that it violates the equal protection CL laws of that state's constitution. And it depends, because each state has its own supreme Court and they interpret how that constitution is applied differently in each state.

Have there been other cases around informed consent where someone was put to jail or subject to the law when informed consent was broken? In another category, there has to be. Informed consent is not just a buzz phrase. I mean, to be informed, like, like, for example, rape Rape is an abuse of informed consent of any kind.

Right.

Rape is one of the most horrific things that could happen in the world. But it happens. And for us to think that it doesn't is actually completely harmful. Right. I think it might have even been Martin Luther King. This is why I love Martin Luther King so much. And if it wasn't him, then someone checked me on this. But he said that evil propagates in the space where good men do nothing.

Correct.

Evil propagates in the space where good men do nothing. And so if rape is happening, if child mutilation is happening, and there's this cognitive dissonance and this bias towards putting our head in the sand. How about even the conversation from a legal perspective about brutal ways that informed consent are not being honored toward a fetus, a boy fetus, a male fetus that cannot even speak, that just came to the world? I mean, what do you make of that from a legal perspective?

Well, there are states. New Hampshire is one of them. They are literally about, hopefully, to pass a law that mandates legitimate and real informed consent for circumcision, which says, this is a natural, healthy body part. It's totally elective. It can come with incredible complications, bleeding.

That better be some huge bold print.

It is. No, it's part of the law that's being voted on now. And so. And my friend at University of Cambridge right now, he just, I think, is publishing a paper with Matt Goodwin as VP of this GALDEF General Autonomy Legal Defense and Education Fund, who they did an analysis of various informed consent and quotation marks of circumcision forms. And it has absolutely no information as to what the foreskin is, what the procedure is. It's just a rubber stamp, which we could file lawsuits on lack of informed consent against various hospitals. But, you know, I work at a very small. Well, not very small, but a small law firm that doesn't have the resources to do all of this philanthropic litigation. We have to pick our battles. Right. And we see the equal protection of the sexes as the. The most bang for our buck right now. Right. It's just, you know, I would take all these lawsuits on if I could.

It makes the most sense.

It does. And I think protecting all children is a message that will resonate with everybody. The left, the right, you name it, because that's what we all want.

What's most interesting is that there actually is no such thing as a left and a right. It doesn't fucking exist. It's literally the same story of the ham in the oven that Just perpetuates because we've always been a two party system and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's all wretch and no vomit. And my audience has already heard this like a thousand times. I'm going to say it again because I want to get your feedback on this. Alan Watts. If there was literally one human being that I would love to interview, be Alan Watts. I mean, he's like, he's changed my life in so many ways. He was like my introduction to spirituality. And he said that when it comes to parents raising their children in ways that harm the parent and the child, that it's all wretch and no vomit. We're teaching our children to raise their children. Who will raise their children in a way that continues to hurt all. We're getting to the point of vomiting out the behavior, but there's no vomit. We're not actually. Sometimes in ayahuasca ceremonies, people vomit out of both ends. There's a reason for that. It's because on an energetic level, we're clearing out. And I'm not here to say that y' all need to do plant medicine. You know, tread lightly. I'm not saying you should do that. There's a Purging that we need. And you're part of the purge, dude. So, Eric, you're part of the purge on a collective level that allows people to throw up so they can retch and finally vomit out this behavior. But what we need right now is courage. We need courage to see the truth. And I'm gonna go back into the depths. I hope you don't mind. Please. Yeah, I'm gonna go back into the depths here because I have so many notes and I'm just so passionate about this. From a place of love. Right? I'm still working on the anger and the frustration and the rage, the sacred rage that you talked about. But this is literally from the German Pediatric association. And you talked about this in the YouTube video that we've linked here. Quoted. There's no medical reason to circumcise before a boy can give consent and that virtually all other pediatric societies and associations worldwide hold. The AAPS American Academy of Pediatrics views have been scientifically untenable, completely invalid. One more. Circumcision is a violation of the child's right to autonomy and physical integrity. Circumcision can and does cause complications. Royal Dutch Medical Association. Last one. The AAP's technical report on circumcision is epidemiologically incompetent and an embarrassment to the aap. This is the Australian and New Zealand College of obgyns. This is not just your opinion. This is the opinion of the largest medical bodies on planet Earth. Why is it still occurring here? What the hell is going on that this can still happen?

That's absolutely correct and I'm glad you brought that up because this is not just my opinion. Is the vast majority of medical professionals in the world, secular medical professionals say, look, this part of the male reproductive organ is extremely important. Everyone's born with it. And you should keep it there because it is there for a reason. Like your eyelids are there or like the female genitalia, the labia, the clitoral hood, all that good stuff. So what is happening is we have been duped in America to believe it has some medical purpose. Right now the only organization with real clout that used to recommend it and their express reason for recommending it was we say the benefits outweigh the risks. So that you can provide financial reimbursement to this health insurers. Right. This was a monetary reason because this is a multi billion dollar industry with a B that their physicians in the American Academy of Pediatrics, they make over a billion dollars a year mutilating infants and they're going to lose that money if they don't.

On the screen right now, research gate, high cost of circumcision, $5.7 billion annually. And that's just here in America. So back to your point.

Well, yeah. And so when the American Academy of Pediatrics issued that recommendation 2012, it expired five years later and they made a conscious decision not to renew it because it is medically and scientifically indefensible to say that healthy baby boys need immediate corrective surgery on their genitalia. Of course they do not. It is a profoundly moronic, and I don't like to use the R word, but it is profoundly a moronic opinion. It is indefensible scientifically. And it's so what they did, and you can look at their website now the AAP is that they have retired that recommendation. So any hospitals who rely on it now are probably in violation of their state laws that prohibit faulty marketing. Because there is not the one medical organization that was, quote unquote, most well known for pediatric recommendations has retracted their recommendation. So we're actually moving in the right direction. And all of the international non genital mutilating nations, the western nations advise against it or strongly advise against it because it is not only an act of mutilation of the penis, but it causes an incredible myriad of Complications that can include the loss of the entire penis or the death of the child.

Child. Right.

These are because people think, oh, it's a little stim. No, it is a massive amputation of almost 50% of the skin on the penis in little babies. Oftentimes, I mean, they're extremely vulnerable. Right. They cannot deal well with being strapped down and having huge parts of their genitals cut off, often without anesthesia. There were stories of infants screaming so loud from the pain that they blow out their lungs and their stomachs. And it's. I mean, it's overt child abuse. Right. And that's why these other doctors are saying, the vast majority of doctors in, in the Western world say, look, there's no medical basis for this and you should stop doing it. But because there's such religious inertia and then cultural inertia in this country, it's. It's hard to put a stop. Like there was a German high court, I think, in 2012, who, who called it out as child abuse. And the German chancellor said, look, we're Germany. We can't be the leader of this human rights cause because of our history. And I applaud the German judge, the German high court who held this, but Denmark may be a better place to start or the Nordic countries. What I can do as an American attorney is start at various states, which is what I'll be doing in the immediate future. But it was a financial decision by the American Academy of Pediatrics to defend the multi billion dollar industry of not just removing the tissue and then all of the money in correcting those complications, but then selling the human foreskin, the male genital tissue to cosmetic companies so they can use that tissue in various skin creams. Because that's the only body part part that I'm aware of that you can legally harvest. Steal and harvest.

Yeah. The beauty industry part of foreskin flesh trade. This is actually an article from Vice. It's on the screen right now. Beauty industry part of foreskin flesh trade. Anti circumcision activists warn. There's, I believe, a spa in New York that charges an absorbent amount of money for this really atrocity of, of a child's flesh being sold.

Yeah.

And how we could see that any different than any other heinous crime is beyond me. You know, I'm going to say something right now, and I really want y' all to feel this. For any of us that have ever been trespassed on, abused, hurt, maimed, even when somebody was unconscious when they did it, I think it's actually valid that we go through the stages of grief, starting with anger and rage. And then that actually compels us to not get stuck in the sadness and make our lives an entire expression of just grief and sadness because it's alluring. It's alluring to just be sad because then you get stuck to be a victim. Well, I would just like to give ourselves a permission slip right now, and that is to look this energy in the face, this dark demonic energy that is infiltrated religious circles and the Bris ceremonies and all of this child ritual mutilation. You will come to the light of what is good in your lifetime or the next lifetime. And you will do it by the hand of me and the hand of all of us that are in this movement that do not believe it is okay. And we see it as true evil to mutilate the genitals of young boys. So then breathe that out and then move on to inspired action. But most people want to skip over the anger because they get stuck in the sadness, because then they get to live their life as a victim. I agree.

Well, living your life as a victim is alluring, as you said, because, oh, well, if I'm a victim, anything I do is justified because I was a victim. I don't have to do I need special attention.

I need special privilege.

One, rage is also very dangerous. Because when I express my rage, it's like, oh, well, Harvard utilized their entire machine to destroy my life. Right. Not only did they terminate me, assassinate my character, then they tried to terminate my boss who supported me, but then he committed suicide, who I was very close with. It was to. That rage is very frightening to those on the other side of this, of.

This shadow, to those that hold themselves justified and righteous.

Yeah. And, you know, they may be combined with this, this historical oppression. Oh, well, you know, I. I don't mean to throw stones at any particular religion, but like, oh, when they see that rage, it triggers their trauma not only with their own genital mutilation, but maybe their historical trauma, that persecution. Oh, Holocaust. There's going to be a holocaust if we don't continue to mutilate our infants. I mean, it is a profoundly stupid position. It has absolutely no basis in reality. Well, the fact that, oh, if we protect children, including Jewish children, because I think it's anti Semitic to a lot, allow this to continue to happen to Jewish children, I think that's the proper frame of this debate. But rage is something that you. That people will retaliate against you for.

Right.

So there may be a lot of rage, and I've seen it among many of my friends, people who reach out to me, but they cannot express that because they're going to be professionally retaliated against for it. You know what I mean? I mean, I certainly was. I'm in a position now where that can no longer happen because, you know, I am part of a two attorney law firm and.

Yeah.

And my boss and I are.

You've also done a bit of work since 2018. Oh, definitely. When you're on that stage, I could feel your rage.

Yeah.

And that rage is actually empowering. Look, I'm not in a space where I think we should have conflict for conflict's sake. I'm not saying people should go and try to wound their attackers. That's not what I'm saying.

Yeah.

I'm not interested in that game. The game I'm interested in is walking the normal, healthy human ladder of processing. Because without anger, we can't accept sadness. We just can't. Anger is more powerful than despair. Right. So if you look at the lowest human emotion on the Hawkins scale, and this is why I believe in part and parcel, you're doing this with your law firm and this movement that you're creating and what's going on with things being changed on a policy level in hospitals is because of what I'm about to share. It's because in order for us to be honest about how we've been, we have to be honest about what's been done to us and done for us. For us. We can't accept where we're going to go unless we've accepted where we've been. It's just a simple fact of human life. What do you make of that and how do you pull from that as a fuel source when things get hard? Because they're going to get hard.

Well, they are going to get hard, but I. I have been wiped off the map before. Right. Total cancellation. And not just like, oh, I was fired.

I love that your YouTube video is still there. How, how is it possible that the overlords have left that video up that there?

I'm very surprised, actually. Well, because, you know, there's conflicts when you say overlords. Like, you know, I am. I imagine there were people at Google and YouTube. I know for a fact there are a lot of people at Harvard who very supportive and I felt all that support. But, you know, the people with the B's, the billions kind of said, look, if you don't fire this guy, we're going to Terminate, we're going to not give you any money.

So there was pressure from the donors at Harvard.

Yeah.

To censor you and censor the gentleman who took his life.

Correct. Because this makes Harvard look like it has absolutely no backbone and will not honor its promises, which nowadays is like pretty well known.

I think we all know that basically all Ivy League are all higher institutions that are being decimated by meritocracy. Meritocracy is what's bringing children back into the home to be taught in the home instead of by some stranger.

Well, exactly. And a lot of these are shills for money. And the feckless bureaucrats are like, well, what makes us the most money? It's, oh, getting rid of anyone who will be controversial. But you can't move society forward if you're not going to ruffle some feathers. Because to maintain a status quo, you have to offend nobody. Right?

That's right.

So it's like, Right. It's like, okay, but the status quo is so offensive. It's so offensive that it's not something. And that's why I was 25 and I needed to get people's attention because I was, you know, I wasn't like a known player. Right. It's like, you know, Harvard obviously is, you know, Sanders Theater. They're big, you know, where John F. Kennedy, Mahatma Gandhi.

I mean, you go up against Harvard or Stanford, you're going to get massive pushback.

I didn't go against Harvard. Right. There was no, I had no animus towards Harvard. Harvard said, look, we're going to honor a free expression policy. You can express yourself and we're not going to terminate you. I was like, my boss said that, my dean said that Harvard faculty said that they have a written policy for that. And so we designed a provocative play to say, look, is Harvard going to honor it or not? And if they don't, at least it's going to be pretty obvious that they're hypocritical shills. And that will get some attention on the cause as well. Right.

It was a net win.

Yeah. I mean, and Georgetown, they hooked me up big time. Georgetown Law. So it was like, okay, you know.

It all worked out, but shout out to Georgetown.

Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah. Seriously, very forward thinking Catholic institution who was like, you know what? This guy has a good point.

I mean, isn't 40% of the faculty at both Stanford and Harvard Jewish?

I don't know what the percentage is.

It's a fairly large percentage. I don't know the exact percent.

Well, the reason I worked there is they actually would pay for my graduate school because I was going to do a data science graduate degree at Harvard. And one of their associate directors of the data science program, I think his name is Andrew Weinstock or something, another professor told me, look, you know, we were going to let you in, but this guy who's a Jewish professor said no, under no circumstances can we let this guy in. So I started shadowing the.

Why was he saying that?

Well, because I was already a known anti circumcision activist, right. And if I was a Harvard data scientist, it lends some credence. It's like, you know, this young man is starting to, let's say, push past where he is, where he should be in the hierarchy ladder, know what I mean? And if he's a student, we cannot retaliate. You can't fire a student.

There's a deep crony system at Stanford and Harvard, deep in all the Ivy League schools and large schools.

Well, I'm most familiar with Harvard just because that's where I spent eight years of my life. Right. I mean on and off so. But I'm sure the other Ivy Leagues are very similar in that respect. But there's also, you know, in some of its like legacy, big money. There are genuinely very smart people there as well and good research. But certainly at Harvard is a political viper's nest. There's a lot of stealing from professors of their graduate students ideas. There's a, Whereas you know, at other institutions like University of Chicago, it's much more academic and people aren't so triggered so easily. Right? So it really kind of depends where you are. But, but some of these universities are really stifling progress and it's just oh well, how do we make the most money? And that could be. Well, we're not going to employ any controversial young whippersnappers who, who are going to upset some of our more religiously inclined child mutilating donors.

But why would the donorship and the religious interest of donorship or even the religious interest of the tenured teachers at any higher learning establishment, why would that be a shadow casted over progress and the love of humanity? Why would that even be in place?

Well, it's what's politically expedient, right? I mean if I have a huge donor who feels very strongly continuing child mutilation, but they give me 10 plus million a year, I may feel like my job is to maximize donations for the university. Right. And if we have such weak leaders at universities, which I can't imagine why you would be a leader of a university or judge for that matter, and perform this important societal role if you're going to be scared of making important decisions. Right. I just don't. It just doesn't make sense to me.

That's right.

But, but that is how sometimes you get to that role, is that you play ball and you're so used to.

Kind of stroking, sacrificing your soul and.

Your values, you'd be a perfect president of Harvard because you have absolutely no constitution. It's like, okay, well, perhaps. But that's not what. How the faculty and the alumni should vote. Right. They should vote with their principles.

Yeah. So, I mean, look, if you follow the money we mentioned, that figure earlier, 5.7 billion. The circumcision industry, which by the way, that's now happening in many other ways with the parents that are changing the gender of their 3 year old or their 10 year old son or daughter. It's absolutely the same thing, just with wearing a different jacket. Hormone blockers, puberty blockers. These kids can't even pick their own dinner.

Yeah.

And we're letting these children pick their gender. Get the fuck out of it. Like just literally anyone with a soul, anyone with a heart can look at the topic we're discussing, which ramifies to many other similar yet perceived different topics. This is a call for human rights. I actually don't even feel like you're anti circumcision. I feel like you're more just pro human rights. That's to me, like, I learned this a long time ago from many different guests. Anytime I fight against something, I actually fuel it. And if I fight for something, I feel that. So I wonder how that's changed for you. Because I have. Dude, I have a lot more questions. There's a lot more data. There's a lot more things to discuss because the layers need to get peeled here. Not just for my own learning, but for our collective learning. Have you in the beginning, in 2018, and even when you were 19 and leading up to your incredible talk, the American love story, you probably pulled from the rage as a fuel source to keep going. But that eventually would make you sick, it would make any of us sick to just pull from rage as a fuel source for being. How have you transitioned from your rage to now, your acceptance to now your inspired litigation that you're doing? How did that process look for you?

Well, I forget who said it, but great failures often will check an ego if it doesn't check itself. Right. And I think that after Because I didn't know Harvard was going to fire me, right. I thought, you know, it might be some. It would be somewhat controversial, but I had a lot of promises written in otherwise with like, we're not going to do that, right? So when I. And I had a great job, I grad school plans. There was a path, right, that was totally snuffed out. So I think when I lost, I spent all my money on this. So I had no money on the play. I lost my career. And then my boss was my best friend at the time. He committed suicide. I found his corpse and tried to revive him. He was a true brother to the end. He was very proud to stand by me, which is why Harvard had to terminate him. I mourned his loss for a very long time. It was, you know, when your best friend dies, it's. It's very traumatic, especially. His death was especially traumatic. And trying to revive his corpse and all that entire. I mean, reuniting with my estranged family because I had nowhere to go, and my whole life was a disaster. I think it's hard to be in a state of rage when you are just so down. It was more. I wouldn't even say depression. It was just. It was kind of a state of shock. And. And now it's like, okay, I need to take stock of where I am now and where am I going? And thankfully, I had an excellent mentor who reached out to me, who now teaches at University of Chicago, who guided me wisely to law school, which makes sense in the whole scheme of things because I sued. You know, I sued Harvard, but also now doing this children's rights litigation. So I. The rage was not a sustainable emotion after I lost everything, right? And then it was kind of like, okay, where do I go? Life is long, and I'm 25 years old, and where do I go? And so that's when I kind of was like, okay, I'm gonna take a step back. I. I don't feel that same rage energy. And, you know, I had good grades and scores or whatever, so it's like, okay, well, let's apply to law school, because that is. That's the path now. And I like being a student. So. And then when I was in law school, I fell in love, and I was like, okay, I'm kind of happy now. Like, things are good.

And.

And it was. It was a great experience, but it's hard to. It's just not healthy to maintain that level of rage. And your hormones change after, you know, from 18 to 25 to 30 just a little. Yeah. I'm about to be 44 this year.

They definitely, definitely change, y'.

All.

So they change.

You know, you're just not as. You're. You're not as beholden to that. There's a lot of meditations, a lot of. And you're more familiar with it. You know, you could. Like we said, there are certain ways you can mitigate the damage, restoration, all that.

So.

So it was just. And then I started to become someone who could actually change things on a meaningful, substantive level. I graduated from Georgetown Law. Now I'm at this law firm. So it's not useful for me to rage, like, against the machine in that way. I'm here to try to work, to try to work, help people make the right decision for their children. Right. That's where we're at now. But I don't think. I think it's very difficult to approach this topic, especially if you're personally affected by it or if you cut your child or whatever it may be without. Without dealing with it. At least a certain level of rage. Could be at the hospital, could be at the doctor, could be at society.

Yeah.

Know what I mean? And then I think. I actually think there's a lot of rage that. That attaches to an infant and the man he becomes. If you generally mutilate him as. As a child, of course. And that manifests in, you know, violent ways, whether it be the violent depiction of pornography, violent international diplomacy. Right. Things that are just less empathetic and more violent because, for example, if you have two puppies and you abuse one and you love the other, the abused puppy is going to be more reactive and violent because that is how he was programmed to grow up. And I couldn't imagine a more violent act than to. To tear the most rottenness part of a child's sex organ off. I mean, it's just so heinous and it's so obvious. But we don't talk about it, which is what the litigation will force the judiciary and the legislature to address, is we discriminate against baby boys right now because we only protect girls, which is great. But that discrimination is actually unconstitutional, pretty obviously.

So.

And so we're going to. Yeah.

It brings a great fact that you talked about earlier, where you said women, there's. There's more sympathetic. There's more sympathy for women on a. On a higher level. And also on, like, a societal level, women tend to get more sympathy when it comes to mutilation. Right. But you had mentioned something, and I forgot exactly how you put it, but it was very eloquent. You said that men are looked at as more of, like, producers and people that are just bringing things to society because of the money they make or because of the value they provide. So there's not as much care or there's not as much attention put on any men's suffering, even from birth, as a fetus. Can you go into that a little bit more?

Yeah. So there's a trope that I think is quite accurate, is that our society views men as success objects, success objects, and women as sex objects. Right. And so. And, you know, maybe even from the tribal perspective, they're. They're providers, they're protectors. And if they take, you know, a hit, whether that could be violent, you know, if they sustain violence, it's something that we're more willing to accept as a society. But the reality is, and this is not a men's rights thing, is if you abuse or inflict violence on your men, you're going to damage these individuals. And they will. They will in turn be damaged and damage others, including women. So the. This will also protect women in that you're going to have more sensitive, empathetic men who are better lovers, more aware, and treat people better because they were treated better. So it's a net benefit to everybody.

It's. So. Thank you for saying that. Because the takeaway from this is like, clearly, if we want men to be healed and if we want to have a society that is thriving, that even has the faculty and the understanding of how to be loving and treat each other with care, we have to address how we enter the world. We're all living in the world together. So how we enter the world, and this is for women and men, if you want men to be integrated, masculine, feminine, then stop cutting off the tips of their penis the first day or week of their life. It's that simple. Actually, just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy to change.

Yeah, well, there's a lot of cultural inertia behind it. And to accept that, oh, we've done this thing that's so harmful to our children for generations is something that we don't like to shine that light on ourselves. Because every. Most people have the story where, I'm.

The good guy, let it shine, y'. All. I agree.

Well, the light is coming regardless. Like, there's no holding it back. It's just how fast. Right.

That song. And I'm not a great. Well, I mean, I think I'm a pretty good singer. Do you sing?

I'm not allowed to sing.

I was gonna ask you to sing with me. Like, this is one of the ways that my mentor Paul Czech, said that we know that we're sick as a society. Because in the past, I haven't actually shared this story in a long time. And I love this story, man. And I wonder how you feel about this.

Please.

So he said that when in the olden times, when we were still living in tribes, we would go to the medicine man or the medicine woman, and she or he would ask us first four questions. When did you stop dancing? When did you stop spending time with yourself? When did you stop singing? And when did you stop pontificating and honoring the mystery of life? Those were the four questions that. And also I believe there was another one. I think it was spending time by yourself. So four or five questions. And really what that shows us is like, we're afraid to sing. We're afraid to express ourselves. We're afraid to do so many things. It's because we're shackled, and we're not liberated as human beings. We all feel this. I know you guys feel this. This is why we have the liberatedlife me community. Because in order to liberate ourselves, we have to go through the inventory of seeing what the fuck is there. If I don't know what's there, then I can't produce anything outside of myself. So the. There's a song that I want to sing.

Please.

And it's this little light of mine. It goes. This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine Let it shine, let it shine all the time.

I love it. This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine let it shine, let.

It shine all the time and that's really what we're talking about. Like, this can be that playful. We have someone in the studio audience right now who's laughing.

Singer. Yeah, she's.

She's a singer.

Yeah.

Great. So she already knows, like, when you sing, you express what's going on. Energy in motion, emotion emotionally in you. You put it through your voice box, which is mostly water. Our body's mostly water. So we're infusing the water in our system and our human beingness with love and light. And not just in some kind of woo, woo, hippie way, practically tactically. Singing is a way to express ourselves that most people are so afraid of because they themselves are not liberated. And I'm on the path of liberation. So are you. Otherwise you wouldn't be fucking sitting here. You wouldn't be going into the highest courts in America and promoting change from a place of love unless there was a portion or all of you that was really liberated and that sees how the liberation of young boys are being stolen from them. There's a. There's a theft that's going on, which is my next question for you. And it's really a theft of fetal innocence once you take away. And this is what breaks my heart about sex trafficking. And, you know, all the governing agencies out there that could be stopping this, but they're not, which is a whole nother rabbit hole. Like, why the hell is this even going on that kids are allowed to be trafficked? Why isn't there billions and billions of dollars going into this and not fucking other countries that have nothing to do with us? Right? Like the war that's going on with Russia. So I'm just like, oh, my God, how do we come to terms with what's actually occurring in the world? And how do we know that what's going on in the world is actually a byproduct of the way we ourselves can choose to be liberated? It starts with you and I. It's not just because ancient masters have said this. If you want to change the world, change the world in you. How do we go about that? I mean, obviously supporting your movement, donating to your movement is one piece, but. But really having the courage to look at. And this is for all the men out there. How were you wounded? And how were you wounded in the deepest, most sacred way when you started your life, the first day or week of your life? Like it. I'm not even really through the process at all because this has come back around for me three years later after the birth of my son. Like. Like, in order to be liberated, we have to be free of the things that bind us. And I think anger and frustration and rage is part of this uncoupling or this unbinding process of the things that compress us or depress us, that block us from singing, that block us from expressing ourselves. So what do you make of this perceived duality of what's going on outside of us and what's going on inside of us? How do you believe your mission in the world and your dharma expressing itself is going to help people individually, liberate themselves, to help people?

Well, the way that this. The reason this is my dharma, right? My mission in life is when I started to understand just how severely this has affected my life in a negative way and how obviously wrong it is, right? It's not like, oh, there's this debate, it's no, you shouldn't mutilate your children's sex organization organs. How obviously wrong it was.

There's definitely no debate.

Yeah, I mean it was. If I could accomplish one thing in this life, I would feel like it was a well spent life. If we could move past this. I mean the fact that I was born in a time where we still mutilate our infants is, and me in particular, such a tragedy. But, but it's something that with the, the how fast society progresses these days, it's something that we can change in. We will change. It's just how fast and hopefully within a matter of years we'll see we.

Have technology on our side depend and.

We could disseminate information. There's really no real alternative side of continuing this child abuse. So that's, that's why I continued, why I committed to this. And hopefully I can do it sooner because it's not something I want to do forever. But for me it was if I could have had anything in my life, it was, it would have been to have been respected and to had my whole body to myself. And I mean it's very important sexually, interpersonally. There's a lot of trauma and I've had a lot of familial strife because of this, which was also very hard on me. So it was just, just all of these negative effects.

So if we are to change the world and make the world a better place, which is like a platitude that's out there. Platitudes like love is all there is. Love is all there is. Well, are you doing it like just because we, we say it or we hear it?

Yeah, yeah.

Doesn't mean that it's always embodied. It doesn't, it doesn't embody in us. And so if we are to change the world and make the world a more loving place, it starts by liberating ourselves enough to love ourselves, which we don't even know how to love ourselves. We're all learning how to do that every day because we're so angry at our oppressors and we haven't gone through the natural stages of grief and processing like you and I have shared that if we have the courage to go down this spiritual path because it ain't for the weak, it's only for the strong and the called. It doesn't make us better, it just makes us chosen. Then how do we personally liberate ourselves? And how is your work in the world helping us to Liberate ourselves so that we can be more expressed and more free.

Well, I see this as a long term positive effect. I think maybe it was Frederick Douglass who said, but kind of paraphrasing, but it's much easier and better to raise healthy and strong children than to repair broken men. Right. And this is a way that we really abuse our children and the men that they become. Because even if you're more violent and less connected, that's a, you know, that's unfortunate and you may be harming others, but there's also a certain compassion you can have for people who experience life through that lens.

Right.

Everything is a war and I need to, you know, it's unsafe and I need to fight everybody. And that may be true, but it also might, might be true because everybody else is experiencing this trauma. So I could, I consider this movement as a way, as a long term effect on the world to, to help it heal. And it's, it's our generation unfortunately or you know, and maybe in Gen Z to an extent we, a lot of us have already suffered the brunt of the trauma. Right. And now we have to address that if we're going to be more connected with our emotions and be able to, to experience life to the fullest and interpersonally connect with others sexually and otherwise. But this is a way that we can, let's say, make the world more loving and empathetic place if we put a stop to this as soon as possible. Which is what I'm trying to do and what we're trying to do. So that's what I kind of see as my contribution to our collective consciousness and hopefully, hopefully, and I hope that people are listening out there that if we can do this as soon as possible, we can move on to other topics. But if we cannot agree as a society that we shouldn't be mutilating our infants, then what can we agree on? Right. And so it's something that I see as such low hanging fruit. It's just a conversation we don't want to have to have, but we do have to have it because we continue to do it. So that's where we're at. And if peop. And even if, if the Internet at large and individuals don't want to support me, my law firm can do this to an extent. But if we are able to raise significant resources, I can force this conversation in every state in the union.

Right.

I mean I'm going to start in one state and you know, probably a month.

Right.

I've got my plaintiff I've got smart people working on the complaint and we're going to go full steam ahead in this state to try to expand existing protections to females, to all children. Now, America is a leader in culture throughout the world. Not so much that every culture says, oh, we're going to mutilate our infants, but we've definitely influenced many. Like after the Korean War, they adopted circumcision to an extent and all that. But I think if America stops doing this, the rates of worldwide genital mutilation will plummet and the next generation who grows up will not have this subconscious trauma that is influencing their decisions and creating a much more violent and dysfunctional world.

If you want to stop the patriarchy, that actually the patriarchy and feminism, like you could say that they exist, but they only exist as a mental construct because of the friction that we unconsciously feel. So first and foremost, if y' all want to stop the patriarchy, then stop cutting the tips of boys penises off the first day or week of their life. That's actually what is the entire. I don't think there's anything more patriarchal, dark energy wise than circumcision for young boys. And every feminist in the world should be out in the streets rioting, rioting, completely rioting, because of exactly a quote from a revered Jewish leader. He said, circumcision is a symbol of two things necessary for our well being. The excision of sexual pleasure and to check a man's pride. This is actually documented in your talk that we've linked in the show notes here. So if one of the revered Jewish leaders is saying blatantly out there in the open in the darkest patriarchal way possible, that the two things that are needed from circumcision that they want to actually project out in the world are the excision of sexual pleasure. And to check a man's pride, to literally associate that sexual pleasure equals pain. There's nothing more demonic. And how any of these leaders or any of these religious people can hide behind their zealotry and their ideology and pretend that this is okay is the most disgusting thing I think truly I've ever heard.

Well, so I have a friend, my mentor, who pushed me into law school. Very astute. But the Catholic Church used to be opposed to gay marriage and then they stopped opposing it because it was no longer financially wise to do so.

Right.

They were going to lose money as opposed to gain money.

How so? How so?

Well, because it was just more popular to support gay people because people knew gay and bisexual people. And so it was no longer popular to hate on them.

Or like the church wouldn't get as many tithings.

Yeah. Or donations because it was just no longer. It was no longer part of the Zeitgeist. Right. And so if it was no longer part of the Zeitgeist to mutilate infants, I think Jewish leaders. Leaders say, you know what? It's actually, you no longer have to do that because we're going to isolate people who donate money to us. So that is, I think, kind of what it boils down to. It's kind of pragmatic and cynical, but I think it's true, is what is most profitable. And if there are Jewish leaders of conviction and influence who say, you know what? This is not something we need to do anymore. It's actually kinder and more loving and more in God's vision to do that then. And also more lucrative, then that's what they're going to do. I mean, this is why people have.

Such a wound around money. You know, I know we've been talking about circumcision, but I myself have worked through such an incredible wound around money. Because like you said, if it's more financially viable and advantageous for any faith, whether it's Judaism, Catholicism, Christianity, if they can essentially get more tithings, then, yeah, they might do away with policies that are heinous at their core. I mean, how unconscious are we as. As a race, as a humanity, that money has to be the only motivator? And how does even that type of thinking fuel the wound around money? This is why poor people say, oh, they're rich, they're evil.

Yeah.

Because they only make decisions based on what's best for their wallet, which in a way, fiduciary and public policy, especially with what you're doing in litigation, it's going to impact people's finances. And finances is what hurts these larv. Large bodies of organizations, of religions. How incredibly sad is it that we even have to start at this place? The knowledge and the awareness that you bring. I think you were on the stage during your talk and you said, I can't believe I even have to be here. Yeah, it's kind of the same thing around money. Like, I cannot even believe that we have to use money as the motivator to not harm children.

Well, I'll do whatever motivator I need. I mean, if that's where we have.

To start, then let's start there.

Well, it is. It is part of the constellation of levers that we can pull kind of Mixing metaphors there. But you know, it's like whatever works. And you know, if it's, if it's cumulative, if it's additive, it's multiplicative, whatever needs to be done in whatever order is what I will do. And right now the, the biggest lever I have is litigation, constitutional litigation on a state by state basis. You know, if maybe I go into politics down the road, then I can advocate for the, for specific legislation. But that's right now, if it is more profitable to mutilate infants, we need to figure out how is it more profitable not to. So maybe if I had the resources to do so, I could litigate against the American Academy of Pediatrics or hospitals for doing this, to say, look, it is actually malpractice to perform medically unnecessary surgery. And if the child has a bot circumcision. So not because losing your foreskin is a huge loss, 40% of the penis on the skin, most of the sensory tissue, but those who are actually even harmed greater than that, which is a significant percentage to sue doctors for medical malpractice claims to say, look, okay, yeah, you could charge a few hundred thousand dollars for the circumcision, but you're going to get sued and lose a lot more if you do that. That also takes away a huge incentive from the medical industry to do this. So there are various pressure points you can push and I would push all of them, but I only have so many resources to push. You know what I mean? So you pick your battles.

Okay, so share this podcast with a millionaire, multimillionaire or billionaire that you know and have them donate to the law firm. What's the name of the law firm?

The Cain Law Firm.

The Cain Law Firm. And where is it located?

In Los Angeles, in la.

Oh, it's in la, yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

It's a very cool law firm.

Now listen, that the geography where you're actually located is quite, it's almost ironic in a way because some of the largest organizations of religion, specifically in Jewish faith, are centered in California.

What do you make of that? Well, we're also a Jewish law firm, right. And you know, we hopefully will be one of those largest organizations who are pushing society in the right direction.

Let me reformulate the statement. What I meant was some of the long standing Jewish organizations that believe that bris and that believe that circumcision and mutilation is normal and fine and healthy and that there's nothing wrong with it, you're going to come up against them geographically just because of where your law firm is obviously, your law firm is much more conscious. What do you make of that in the future? Does that bring up fear for you?

No. I mean, I'm well aware that I'm not going to be here forever. Like, I will die at some point, as will all of us. And if I'm assassinated, which hopefully not. But it's okay, right? It's not something I'm going to live in fear of because it's just it. It's not a healthy way to live. You know, you can always be afraid of something. Right. Maybe there's some religious zealot who's like, we need to take him out because he's gonna take away general emulation. And that's probably accurate, but. But it is what it is. And I have this mission that I need to do. And if it, you know, if I'm geographically close to these centers of power who want to oppose me, I honestly don't think that. That I'm. We're going to. Any harm is going to befall us. And also, we have an incredible head of security at our law firm. He's like this big jacked, very aware dude named Jared, who, you know, if you were to see him, no one's going to. I mean, he's head of security is one of the many hats he wears.

Right.

So, like, we have like a pretty significant. Significant. Yeah, I would hope. Fortress there.

Yeah, I would hope so. That's amazing. Oh, he stands guard.

Well, I mean, he doesn't stand guard, but like. But he. There are certain, you know, if you do litigation, sometimes you make enemies. Right. And he's aware of the people who would actually post threats.

Well, I can't let you go unless we talk about John Harvey Kellogg.

Oh, please. Yeah, yeah.

We have to. So this has been brought up on the podcast before by Dave Asprey. And I've seen Dave going and making his rounds on other shows where he's brought up this story. But I have a different story, actually. And you touched on it in your talk. And then I actually did a little bit more research and I found. So John Harvey Kellogg, he was the. And actually, people don't know this, he stole the Kellogg recipe from his brother. And he and his brother went through massive litigation about who could get what money. And so John Harvey Kellogg was actually a thief and he stole corn flakes from his brother. And that's a fact. You can do the research. Not only was he a thief, but he distorted sexual energy. He was a huge advocate of repressing sexual energy in the early 1900s, he was. He was an author of this book called Treatment for Self Abuse and its effects. 1888, he advocated for circumcision without anesthesia so that the child would always associate sexual pleasure with pain. I'm just literally going to pause. John Harvey Kellogg advocated for circumcision without anesthesia so that the child would always associate sexual pleasure with pain. Just let that land. Because if that was the energy before even the year 1900, behind the swell of circumcision and harming young boys and associating pain with sex and sex with pain, how could we possibly have a healed patriarchy? How could we possibly have women that have men showing up for them, that are embodied in their own masculinity, that even have the faculty or the awareness to treat a woman like a real woman because they themselves have been robbed from being a real man? That's what Kellogg stood for. What do you make of that?

Well, that is why America adopted circumcision is to try to stop kids from masturbating and to blunt the sexual senses, because that was seen as, you know, an evil. It was both a Jewish and a Catholic. That was the, the mode of thinking. The zeitgeist at the time was we need to make sure kids aren't masturbating, that they're only having heterosexual married intercourse. And this is a way that makes it much harder to masturbate because you don't have the mobile skin on your penis that you're supposed to have. So it's one of the. While I was working through my own personal epiphany that this was not just wrong, but it was heinous and it was done. To me, it was, oh, historically, 99% of its history, with the exception of only very recently, like the last two generations, circumcision was pushed to damage your sexuality.

Right.

That's exactly what it does. That's why they did it. But because that is no longer a popular, popular motivation, they had to change the. The reason, Right? Oh, it prevents this disease. Prevents that disease.

Sure. Almost dirty. They'll. I've even heard, oh, it'll get dirty. It's like you're telling me that God, Nature, Mother Nature designed our body, that it would somehow harm us, that somehow getting some lint under your foreskin would cause you to get penile cancer. Get the out.

It's nuts.

You.

Actually, there's higher penile cancer in America. It might be from smoking. It also may be when you cut off 40% of the skin, you're Removing a lot of the blood vessels, the arteries, the veins. And so the blood flow is all messed up for life. I mean, there's a lot of negative effects. It's like if you cut off your eyelids, your eye is not going to function as well. But John Harvey Cullark, he's one of a list, probably one of the most egregious and kind of overt. We need to associate sex with pain. This makes it much harder to. For self abuse, which was a euphemism for masturbation. But that is why most of the doctors adopted it too, back in the 1900-1970 or so.

Because they didn't want kids masturbating.

Correct.

So it literally came from sexual oppression that came from millennia of dogma, because it was always done. This tradition gets to die. I mean, it gets to die in our life.

It has to die.

It actually must die because it's going to propagate more war. The entry to life is so special, man. And I don't know. So it's a question I want to ask you. I'll ask you now. I was going to ask you at the end, but I'll ask you now. Do you want children?

At some point, yes.

At some point, you want children. Yes. So can you see how the consciousness and the spiritual journey that you yourself have been on and what you stand for in the world and expressing your dharma and your purpose in the world is going to be so inspiring and how lucky and how fortunate your future son or daughter is going to be because they have you as a father.

Well, I certainly hope so. I mean, I had great parents. I mean, I know that may be hard to. To infer.

No, I don't judge your parents. They did the best they could with the level of consciousness they had.

Yeah.

Just like all of our parents do.

So I actually have a pretty high standard to live up to. But I also want to do better for my children than what happened to me. But I also have this very important mission that I need to do. And if having children is going to detract from that, you know, then it's something that can wake up, wait quite some time. It's okay.

Yeah.

I mean, I. It's just not something I need to decide right now. Sure.

I was 39. Okay. Yeah.

So I'm 31, so.

Okay. Yeah.

And my dad had me when he was 44, something like that.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Maybe four. Somewhere between 40 and 44. So it's kind of like. It's not something I need to decide Right now. And things are moving so fast in my life that, you know, it's hard to know where I'll be in a couple years. We'll. We'll see.

Yeah.

Because I don't even have the resources to support a child right now. And, like, it's just not something where I, I, I would feel comfortable doing. It would, it would be a real headwind.

I, I hear you. And to be honest, I felt the same way. Like, When I was 34, 35, I thought to myself, wow, I really want kids, I want a family. I want to create a dynasty in the world. How am I going to do it? And it actually that, that vacuum, like Aristotle says, you know, nature hates a vacuum. So the vacuum that was created as I stepped into what it would take and what I would have to become as a man, as a leader, as a human being in order to lead wellness and wisdom and lead the podcast and make the money and reach the people and do the things. I had to sit in that chrysalis and wiggle around in my own juices of sabotage before I finally cracked the shell and opened up my wings to fly. And I would say I'm still learning how to fly, too. Right. That's why we sang on the podcast, man. People want to feel our youthful spirit, our joy, like they felt from you now, and they felt from you and your play and your performance in 2018. And I'm sure that's why people gravitate towards you and gravitate towards this show, because they can actually feel our heart, they can feel our, our soul. They can feel our young child, you know, wounded as they may be, because we all have been wounded. They can feel that fucking life force energy from us. And I think that is really something that our kids can feel and see that doesn't always necessitate us having 100k in the bank. Or maybe that's even more important than being financially ready for children. But when I look back on my own evolution of becoming a father, that is definitely one of the pitfalls that I realized I had to hurdle and I had to grow into this different human being. So I think it's actually perfect and beautiful. You're saying this for any man that wants to be a father. It is going to change you. It's going to carve out a space in your heart that you get diamonds from that you didn't even know existed.

Well, being financially ready is one part right? And you will change. It's taking on such an important responsibility that will outlive You.

Right.

It's not something that you can really go back from, and it's just not something I'm ready for. And I work pretty much. Not all the time, but pretty heavily. And it's not something that I feel like I could do properly at present. Right, sure. But. Yeah, but if I look at my life now, compared to when I graduated law school in 2022, like, which was a year and a half ago, things have changed so much in my life in a year and a half that maybe in a year and a half things will change, maybe it won't. But, you know, you said you were 39.

Yeah.

It's not something that needs to be decided right now.

Sure, sure. The only reason I bring that up is because it. It's such, like, it's very specific. Like, if you were a. Let's say that you were a pediatric urologist. Right. And you're a pediatric urologist and you were Jewish and you were speaking out in the world, like, nobody could say no to that. They can't say no to you either, because any ad hominem attacks on you fall in vain because your faith is Jewish. And if you were to have children one day and you're still on this dharmic path and things are still unfolding, holding for you in the way that they are, I think that's just going to add to the power and the gravitas that you have in the courtroom, because you'll have all of that behind you. You'll have the momentum of that pushing you for good in the world. Do you feel that or see that?

I. I understand that perspective, and I think that it would be true and if I did have children, that they would. I mean, maybe they'd be present, but it would. It would be part of my motivation.

This is just my opinion. It doesn't mean it's true. It's just my opinion.

Yeah, I just. It is such a huge responsibility, and it's not something that I. I'm ready to do with the huge challenges ahead. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

I mean, I got you. They'll change.

I got you. Okay, let's shift to the last half of the show because. Holy, this has been a ride. So it was interesting. In Sex and Circumcision, your talk, that's still on YouTube, it's going to stay there. An American Love Story, you talked about these five censored facts. And what was really fascinating to me, and, you know, I'm saying this as a protection mechanism, I really want this message to get out there and I know that censorship is actually part of YouTube in a big way. We've been censored before. And so I want y' all to do this. I want y' all to share this episode right now because the more it's shared, the harder it's going to be to be censored. And so with that is a pre frame. You talked about these five censored facts, and I want to take them one at a time with you. So the first one is that rabbis designed and implemented circumcision to damage Jewish children's sexuality. Now, we've already explored this a little.

Bit, but can you give us a.

High level on one of these five censored facts?

Sure. So, you know, I was Jewish, grew up Jewish, and I was, I used to have this kind of complex like, oh, Judaism is the best and I'm the best because I'm Jewish, blah, blah, blah. Just because that's how you're raised. Right. And I'm sure it's like that.

What do you mean that's how you're raised?

Well, it's, it's probably not explicit, but I think in most religions it's at least implicit that this is the right religion. And, you know, it's proper that you were raised here and this is how you know you're superior because you're part of religion X.

So in Judaism, as in a lot of religions, there's an elitism that.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's literally the chosen people. Right. That is, that is kind of the motif that, that extends throughout the Old Testament and a lot of the religious kind of practices and dogma.

And non Jews are called gentiles.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's the, the respectful term, the slurs. Goam means cattle. So goam means cattle, as far as I understand it. I believe so.

Because in some of the original Jewish texts, they're the, the term goam is used. So they're speaking about other people that are non Jewish as cattle.

You know, I would. We should fact check this, but I'm pretty sure yes. But anyway. But I, I didn't. I considered it to be a mark of superiority just because I was, you know, in my early teens and I was young and ignorant. Right.

Yeah. It's just kind of what happens in your teens.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

And the, the mark of ignorance is that, you know, that you're not ignorant and that you're the same smartest and the best and whatever. Right. So it's like this real toxic kind of combination of traits which is amplified through hormones and puberty and all that and whatever culture.

That's a wild ride in our teenage years.

Yeah, I'm starting to watch the show Big Mouth and it's very funny with the hormone monsters that tell you that kind of personify the impulses you feel as. As a child or a young adolescent at that age in terms of both kind of being very irrational and impulsive and you know, your emotions and sexual responses spike in ways.

Yeah.

Are just insane. Right. Like if you did that as an adult, you would be considered clinically insane. But you know, you're an adolescent. So anyways, that was kind of the, the attitude I had as a teenager. And then when I started reading books on circumcision because I'd seen an intact penis when I was 19 on an international rugby tour in Scotland, I started to kind of look into it and I saw all these quotes from these rabbis saying circumcision is done to weaken the sexual organ. It's done. So not only men feel less sexual pleasure, but women do too, because the genitals are designed to stimulate each other. And when you remove a big part of the male organ, it doesn't stimulate the female as well. So when I started reading the history of historical justifications from esteemed rabbis like Moses, Mamoda Days and others, I was like, oh, you know, that's not something you can fake. It was an overt justification to damage children's sexuality. And that was something that really flipped a switch in my thinking because I always thought it was done as some type of enhancement or improvement because that's just the mean. The trope that was repeated to me often.

That's what I used to believe too, because my parents and my grandparents and everybody just did it. I didn't question was literally just something that I absorbed through almost emotional osmosis.

But when you see this recurring justification throughout the ages of Jewish essentially high priests saying no, we need to circumcise kids because it reduces their ability to feel sexual pleasure and it weakens their sex organ. Well, I'm 20ish year old man. That's not what I want to hear.

Right.

But it's something that you can't really get around because there's no rabbis back then saying this increases sexual pleasure and increases sexual function. And of course it doesn't. You're cutting off a big part of the penis. But it's not something that you're taught in temple or Jewish studies. It's not something that they highlight because it is. Is so I mean it's It's a gross and disgusting part of the history where we mutilate our infants. Right. So it's not something you want to highlight, but it is part of the development. And, you know, every. Every whatever group of people has things that they're not proud of in their history. And this is, you know, one of the obvious ones.

Yeah. And look, like I mentioned this again, and I've already mentioned it many times, this is not against the Jewish faith in any way. Like, every religion has its shadow. I'm going to say that again because we all know.

Because you haven't heard it, because y', all, you've heard.

This is like the fourth time I'm saying it. And I have to say that because of our modern times. I agree. I have to say that because of our modern times. Right?

Yeah, well. And, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of controversy and there's. There is a lot of legitimate hatred towards this people, my people and others. So, you know, it's important. But at the same time, it's not like, oh, everything we've done is perfect. That's just ignorant. And absolutely.

To label anyone that challenges anything in the Jewish faith or the Jewish way of life as anti Semitic is actually an unintelligent approach to life because it doesn't open up any of our neurology to change. It's funny, I was just chatting with your lovely lady on the break, and she was like, yeah, the way that we interface with others, it literally changes our brain. And I think, okay, if y' all are open to your brain being change so that your heart can be more compassionate, then feel the fear about what we're talking about. And don't go ad hominem on Eric or Josh because you're trying to chastise us as anti Semites.

Yeah.

First of all, you're Jewish, and I have nothing against Jewish people, so there's that. So try to. Try to fight or sound bite me on that, y'. All. Well, it ain't gonna work.

But when you criticize part of a religion and you say, well, here are these three words that you said in a two plus hour podcast, it's like, well, in my platform, those people only going to see those three words, right? And then it's like, okay, it's unfortunate.

It really is. Okay, point number two. American physicians adopted circumcision to damage our children's sexuality.

Well, you talked about this before, but John Harvey Kellogg said we need to circumcise our kids to prevent self abuse, AKA masturbation. So the child forever associates sexual pleasure with pain. But John Harvey Kellogg, he may not have been a doctor, but that was the over justification in the medical field is we need to do this because it makes it more difficult to masturbate. Now what a lot of American men are becoming aware of, but may not have been, is you're not supposed to require lotion to masturbate, right? You have this mobile double layered sheath of highly erogenous skin that goes up and down the penis and, and you just grab the skin and you jerk it off and then you could come to orgasm or you're having sex with another partner, right? But in our popular media in this country, you almost always see tissues and lotion as code for masturbation, especially in like crude adult animated comedies like Family Guy, Brickleberry, Rick and Morty, you name it, right in that area. And so that is not something that, that, that is an artificial sexual disability that is imposed on a circumcised male because you're supposed to have enough tissue where you could bring yourself to orgasm without any external aid. And if you think about it, we're primates, we evolved in the wild. That you need some external synthetic lubricant to achieve orgasm is just ludicrous. I mean, of course you don't. We've been self pleasuring since, you know, we've, I don't know when monkeys started doing it, but monkeys today do it as well, right? And they don't need lubricant from CVS because they have their foreskin like every other mammal.

You know what's interesting before we get to the last remaining censored facts, is that the way in which this religious zealotry has come down the tree and the way in which boys have been so harmed is actually the same way that science tries to deny God in the name of science itself. Science, especially in our world and even at higher learning institutions, it's gotten so full of itself. The scientific bodies, the scientific professors, they're so into themselves and they're so self righteous about knowing exactly how the brain works. Well, let me tell you this, and let me ask you this, and this is for all of us here. Science can explain why the SA node in the heart beats, right? It's the transfusion of electricity in the heart. But science can't actually say that why it beats. Science can do a lot of things. It can help people. And I'm not here to go against the progression of science because science actually does a lot of good in the world. But to come from the intentionality around science has to be an honoring of the mystery of our creator in order for science to be pure. And science has become completely plagiarized because you can take money and stack it on one side and take money and stack it on the other side, and then the two scientists just fight each other about which science is right. Look what happened with our whole fucking Covid Theater and the mask bullshit and the lockdowns and the insanity that bankrupted millions and millions of people. I mean, case in point, the way that this has been handed down where American physicians literally just thought, okay, it's okay to cut off the tip of a penis and take away the sexual pleasure of young boys. It's actually done in the name of science. They were doing it back then in the name of science. Just like in the past few years, things were done in the name of science that absolutely decimated and killed people. Do you see the similarity here?

Well, so I actually never thought I would get Covid. Right. I just thought, okay, there's this big hysteria. And then when I finally caught it, I was pretty incapacitated for like, two weeks. Right. So I can understand. You know, I was a younger guy, like 29 or something, and I was healthy, like, robustly healthy. And I was totally leveled. And I was vaccinated because my university required it. You know, I'm not going to fight. I can fight one major university at a time, you know, So I. But I. I also take issue with, oh, well, here's this new vaccine, and it has absolutely no health. Detrimental health effects. It's like, well, you know, you just invented it, so how do you know that?

How could you possibly know?

That's just. It's just. That's silly. That's not possible. But you also can have standardized studies that show, well, the hospitalization effects are lower and you may have better outcomes. I think Europe banned the Pfizer vaccine or something, and yet 100 million Americans got it. And also America serves a lot of things that are literally illegal to serve in Europe.

Yellow number five, blue number four.

I think you're saying red number die for crazy stuff. It's like, okay, yeah, I don't know what those mean, but apparently super carcinogenic and unhealthy.

Sure.

So I'm aware that a lot of our medicine, certainly big pharmaceutical, is motivated mostly by money and not health. Right.

But it's done in the name of science, science, science.

Yeah, well, there's the scientism where people actually have no idea how science works, but they appeal to it. This is what the scientists say this is.

You know, it's always people that are uneducated that go, well, it. Science. And I'm like, what do you mean by that?

I don't know.

Do you mean science? Yeah.

So. Well, and that's. I just thought it was healthy because that's what all the major organizations said. And they were just news organizations. They were citing the American Academy of Pediatrics, who retired their recommendation for circumcision.

Yeah.

Just like they retired lobotomies and they retired pouring acid on the clitoris and. And blood letting and all that stuff. Those have been retired, as has circumcision in this country. It just has inertial effect.

It's crazy. You mentioned the bloodletting. That's actually what the barber. The rotating barber pole. That's what that is. And I didn't know this. I didn't know this for a long time, Eric. So y' all have seen those rotating things outside of barber houses or barber shops? Back in the day, barbers would do the bloodletting. And the reason that that thing rotates is because they would tie bloody rags to a flagpole and they would flap in the wind. So that was the old school barber shops that would actually cut people and blood let them. Which, by the way, was the same thing. Science saying that this is the way to go. And you have to trust us. True. Socratic method, when it comes to science, is always open to its theories being proven wrong.

Exactly.

Zealotry in science is a different thing.

Yeah. And. Well, and actually a lot of. So the biggest circumcising group are Muslims in the world because there's a billion of them and much less Jews. Right. And they mostly circumcise, but a lot of the circumcisers are actually barbers. So they cut your hair and then they cut the children's hair.

No way. So they're actually. That's. They're connected to the old world still.

Yeah. Yeah. In that way.

Holy shit.

You know, while we're cutting your hair, let's mutilate your penis. It's like, you know, it is what it is. I don't know what to tell you.

I just had to pick out my jaw for y' all to listen. Okay, so number three, circumcision significantly damages life. The foreskin is important. Obviously, if you're with us for this long, you already know that. But why did you put that in there?

Well, because people think it's a small piece of skin that it doesn't have Any function or it has negative value. No, it's about 15 square inches. So at least as big as a credit card. Usually as big as your palm. I've made a lot of jokes in the play that mine would be much bigger, but the point is, because I had that eggplant in my pants and that was kind of. People thought that that was real, right?

Yeah, I did. I was like, oh, my God, he's going to pull that out.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, is it really that big? No. So it is a massive skin double layer skin structure that has most of the erogenous tissue. And men can have orgasms in different parts of their foreskin. And the. The most immediate way to describe it is the lips of the genitalia. Like, if you were to put a vice around your lips and tear them off, that would be analogous to a circumcision on an infant. Because the foreskin is the transitionary skin from the outer foreskin, which is below the circumcision scar, to the inner foreskin, which is the other side of the circumcision scar. Right. It is the lips that go. That go from skin to inner mucosa that close around the head of the penis, like over it. And then when you become aroused, it can slide back and forth, which not only stimulates the foreskin, but stimulates the head of the penis, and it stimulates your sexual partner as well. So there's this kind of whole dance of moving parts that contributes to sexual pleasure to the partner, to. To the male, to his partner. It's exceptionally important. It keeps the sexual orifice lubricated. Right. It contributes in such a profound way to the sexual dance. And when you remove that, that's why you have all of this much more violent porn in America, which is like pounding, because you don't. With a foreskin, you need very little movement to get an incredible sensation. And you can have orgasms throughout different parts of the penis and the foreskin. When you remove that, obviously you cannot. So. But Americans don't know that because 120 million American men and their sexual partners don't have a foreskin. Some women live in areas where the circumcision rate's so high, they've never seen a foreskin. And you have the psychological effect called the familiarity bias, where you become aroused and comfortable with what you're familiar with. Someone say, oh, I prefer circumcised men. Well, have you ever been with an intact man? No. It's like, okay, well, so you're just used to what you're used to. But they did a study, I forget where in Europe, but I started it in my play, where about 30% of circumcised men brought their female partners to orgasm, where 60% of intact men, which is a huge difference. And then there was a 30 standard deviation, which just means on average, which, you know, between like 10 and 50% of men bring their circumcised men bring their females to part to orgasm. And about like, like 50 to 90% of intact men bring their female partners to orgasm. So I mean, it actually detracts from a incredible number of orgasms from women as well.

So women are being robbed from orgasm because of circumcision.

Exactly. If you want to look at the straight strictly through a female lens, which, as I said, I don't care what lens you put it through, we just need to protect these children from genital mutilation. But it is an incredible harm to female sexuality as well.

They're being robbed of having an orgasm because they're with a partner whose parents literally didn't know what they didn't know.

Yeah, I mean, this has profound effects throughout your entire life. And then also other people's lives who are not even the ones being cut.

You know, the analogy that I made earlier with the ham and the, and the stove, it really makes sense for everything that we're talking about because the fourth point, which is honestly the most powerful I feel, and all five are very powerful. But the fourth point that you mentioned is about the US media continues to feed us the AAP's circumcision recommendation, which is a blatant lie, unapologetically motivated by religious ideologies. Now, you already mentioned that it's been, quote, retired. Yes, but yet it's still being practiced in probably the majority of hospitals out there. Because there's a financial incentive for them to do so.

Correct. Well, and that is why it's so important to pass laws that defund circumcision for Medicaid. Because I just find it so offensive, you know, whatever. Especially if you look at this through the right wing lens. You know, assuming that that exists is we're going to spend our taxpayer dollars mutilating, you know, performing medically unnecessary surgeries.

Who cares what wing it comes from?

Yeah, I know. It's like, you know, I try to speak everyone's language.

Sure, sure.

So it's kind of like in terms of the fourth. The fourth censored fact. Right. Is all of these medical, all of these news organizations used to cite the AAP They've stopped doing that, more or less. And the conversation has changed considerably in five years. Like we're going to prevail in this movement to protect children, but it takes time to build that mass. What do you say? Most people violently opposed to truth. And then they.

There's some tipping point.

Yes.

So. And then it's accepted as total truth.

Yes.

All truth goes through the. Those three.

So we're. We're right near the middle now. And. And so.

Agreed.

So that talk has aged in a way, my Harvard performance, which is great. Good. I, yeah, I'm really happy to see that. But we need more laws passed defunding circumcision, and then eventually it will be unlawful to mutilate an infant. But it's going to take some time.

Well, the last point is a very profound one. Male and female circumcision are identical, which we talked earlier and you mentioned that for a long time, that it's obvious that you don't pour acid on a clitoris and you don't harm the genitals of a young baby girl, a baby fetus girl. Why in the hell, besides the societal impact where men are judged by the way that they provide and men are. How did you describe it again? You said women are sexualized, but men are.

Well, women are sex objects and men are success objects. Yes. And so. Well, you wouldn't call a woman uncircumcised ever.

Right.

In this culture in America, you wouldn't say, oh, she's uncircumcised, Jennifer, or whatever the names are. And you wouldn't do that. You shouldn't do that with a man. If you call a man uncircumcised, it just telegraphs, oh, I'm ignorant of what a normal penis is. But if you're with a group of circumcised men and you, you call someone out or make fun of them for being, quote, unquote, uncircumcised, it makes you feel better. It communicates this delusion that being uncircumcised is abnormal. There's no such thing as being un mastectomized. You're not unmutilated. This is a normal, intact penis. But we use these terms in genital cutting cultures to make intact individuals feel abnormal or lesser than. Because it's much easier to project our insecurities on intact individuals than to realize, oh, I was harmed. Which reckons back to what we. Or hearkens back to what we've been talking to for a while, is we have this elaborate culture and language to normalize this horrific reality. So. And if you were to look at female genital cutting cultures, they exhibit all of the same behaviors as America, a male genital cutting culture, those cultures that circumcise females, they say, oh, it's just a little snip and it's healthier and it's cleaner and it prevents disease, and a man's not going to sleep with you if you're not circumcised, and it barely hurts. And all of these things that we immediately recognize to be false, all of those things are equally applicable to America. So, but it's just. And also, if you just look at the tissue, they're homologous. They come from the same structure in the woman's uterus or utero. And so when you cut off part of the foreskin, that's analogous to cutting off the clitoral head of the female. But actually, the male foreskin is much more innervated than the female clitoral head. It's the clitoris and the female that's mostly innervated, whereas it's the foreskin in the male that's mostly innervated.

So, yeah, well, maybe this is why in, you know, the American love story, it's about sex and circumcision. Because it's not just circumcision that is harming people. It's the byproduct of how sex gets tainted through that process. And let's end with this. When we look at society, and I say society loosely because I'm only talking about America or North America, USA and Canada. Main, maybe Britain, maybe the uk, other countries. I just don't have the experience because I haven't spent enough time there to know if what I'm about to say is true. But I assume it probably is, especially the more divorced we get from the laws of nature and from our creator. I wonder if the duality, the theater that were. It's funny, you had a play, you had to call it a play. You couldn't have actually called it a talk, because if it was a talk or a lecture, it probably would have gotten censored. But since it was a play, and that's why JP Sears and all these comedians can do what they do and shine light on the darkness because it's satire. But inside of satire, there's always a kernel of truth. There's always something for us to learn there. What I'm about to say and what I'm curious how you feel is this. If sexuality has been tainted and the stories that have been told to us about what sex is, have been tainted and that sex is something that we should objectify a woman's breasts and we should objectify women. And look at Instagram. It's like half ass and tits just hanging out everywhere. And even. Even in other communities, it's about objectifying the bulge and just. It's so. It's so tainted and it's so completely unpure in the way that it's being presented. I wonder if you have to guess, and this is a spiritual and a philosophical question. When he goes back to the question I asked about for ancient civilizations on Gaia, the Anki and the Enlil. If there was a piece of our genetics that was pulled out of us that knew that we were from a creator, that knew that we were love, if we are being manipulated by some energetic force in the world that objectifies women and teaches men to treat women as objects and wounds men themselves through circumcision, what do you believe that actually is? Is it Watiko? Is it dark energy? Is it demonic? Like, what is that energy, that malevolent evil energy in the world that wants to continue this tainting of sexuality and the complete and total dismemberment of sexual organs for boys?

I think it's trauma is what it is. It's trauma that continues to perpetuate itself instead of be healed. Right. Because this trauma needs some level of healing. And like I said for. I think the societal healing is to make laws that. That protect children from genital mutilation. All children, including boys. I think the personal trauma is we men who are circumcised circumcise their. Their sons because they don't want to deal with that trauma, so they inflict it on others instead of healing it. Because if you have an intact boy and you're circumcised, that's going to continue to remind you of what you've lost. I think that's really the psychological reason that the trauma perpetuates itself. But it's hard. I mean, I don't really know. Right. This is just my guess. But what I do know is that it would be infinitely better for society if we stopped harming our boys. Right? And that's what we. That's the mission and that's what we're going to do.

Yeah. Wow. What a fucking epic ride this has been. I knew it was going to be great because I felt your passion in 2018. I feel it now in a more refined way, in a more more mature way where you're taking litigation and real inspired action. It's very clear to me that you've walked the Hawkins Ladder from sadness, grief, to acceptance, to anger, to inspired action. And now, being of service in law, it's very clear to me that you're a spiritual man. I don't feel you as a religious man. I think that's what all of us really want when we fall into traps of religion is we just want connection with the all. We just want connection with our creator.

So.

So thank you. Let me just say thank you for walking this path, meant for doing your work. It's a phrase I'm sure you hear a lot. But really, truly, thank you for letting me be an amplifier of your message and the way that you're allowing children to enter the world, specifically young boys to enter the world and not be so traumatized and shorten the suffering curve of young boys. It's really, really admirable, and I just totally respect it.

I thank you so much, Josh. It's been a real honor. Thank you for helping spread this very important message and this mission and to, let's say, help the world heal. You know, one step at a time. We all do our part. You've definitely done yours. I'll continue to do mine. And hopefully we will meet again. And when we do, we will be much closer to the goal. Yeah, I think so. Protecting all children.

Okay, so clopper.com is where people can go. Yes. And you can read about this. Clopper versus the President and Fellows of Harvard College. It's there, but y' all donate. Like, even if it's five bucks or ten bucks, you have a donation button.

Yeah, yeah. On clopper.com, if you donate, it goes to a separate bank account that's only used for anti circumcision.

Not funding your dinners.

No. Yeah, yeah. No. I have my own job. If I could work on this litigation full time, I would. Yeah. But right now, my law firm has the ability to do one lawsuit well in this upcoming state for Mason. But. But if I can raise a lot more, I can sue various states around the country and speed this up quickly.

Okay. So instead of spending money on alcohol or something deleterious to your health, this weekend, donate to children, boys not being traumatized their first day or week of life. That sounds a lot more fulfilling to me than a bottle of vodka. So thank you, man, for being here. And, you know, it's something I ask my guests every time, and I'm always pleasantly surprised. And sometimes I'm just like, gobsmacked. By their answer. And it is this influence of wellness and wisdom in your life. It's like this intersection that we meet at certain points in our human evolution. We think we have wisdom, but we may not have wellness, or we think we're well, but we're not intelligent or we're not smart enough to meet the demands of our mission. So at this intersection of wisdom and wellness, I think what we all really want, maybe man, is we just want to live our life well. We want to have fulfillment and happiness. And I teach this model in the Pentagon called physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, financial, wellness. But in the center of all that, if you had to articulate it, how. How would you define Eric living his life? Well, what is well being to you?

Well being for me, I would say, is having the energy to accomplish what it is you're on earth for. Right. You're the calmer. It's having the energy to do what it is you need to do and being present enough to enjoy it.

Right.

So it's kind of the marrying of physical and mental health. And because if you're. If you know what you're here to do, you have the energy to do it. That is going to make you fulfilled and to not stress out about where you are, where you're going, but to enjoy where you are in the process, because this is, you know, you know, protecting all children from genital mutilation is going to be difficult. It already has been. It will continue to be. But to enjoy where you are, even enjoy the difficulty and thrive in it and have the energy to do what is necessary, I think is wellness for me.

That's beautiful. Wow. What a great exploration of this topic. That's. Honestly, I hope it's not timeless. You know, a lot of the wisdom that's shared on the show is. Is timeless. No matter when you hear it, it always applies. But my prayer is that so much of what we've done discovered here and what you've shown us through times of difficulty, that in three to five years that we don't have this conversation, that we're just playing a different game, that we're actually having a different conversation, and we're taking the enrichment of these laws that you've helped to pass to the next level, that would be the ultimate dream that would be super meaningful for me. And there's one more thing I want to share before we say goodbye, and that is earlier I described one of the pieces of the Ladder of Healing. And so part of that was me showing rage and showing aggression. I Do think that is important for people to explore now? Are you going to get ultimate results from that? No, you're not. But it is part of the journey of healing. So I do want to say to those that have trespassed on us and to even the harm that we've caused to others, but specifically men that have been traumatized at such an early age, you know, for me, it led me to pornography and unconscious sex and I'm really just, just tying the roots back in real time. It's been a fucking journey going into your work, man. It's been such a healing journey for me personally and I know it's going to continue over the next few months. It's okay to have compassion for the people that have trespassed against you too. Like, that's really the take home here, is allow yourself to go through the stages of healing, but really allow yourself to relax into compassion. Because our parents didn't know. They didn't even know. They didn't know. Neither did our lineage, neither did our greats and our greats and our great great greats. So they deserve compassion too. And I think the more compassion we can have, not in a woo woo way, but in a really tactical, practical way, like on the ground compassion for our parents and for everybody in our family tree and just give them grace for the things that they didn't know, they didn't know. That's how we actually live life. Well, whenever I hold resentment or I hold distrust or I project my stuff onto other people, it just makes me age faster. It makes me not live well. And it's actually the opposite of wisdom. It's the opposite of wellness. So thank you for giving me that insight on the pod today. Just super fucking great conversation. Please y' all share this as far and wide as you can. Donate clopper.com this is a powerful conversation that I hope reaches as many human beings as possible. Is there anything we missed? No.

It's been an absolute honor. Josh, I so appreciate and love you having me on the show, you helping move this along. And I just to reiterate, I hope in three to five years we are in a radically different place. In most states in this country, say, you know what, we're going to protect all our kids equally, not just our females, although that's great. But we're going to protect our baby boys, everyone who's born. And that is where we're going. And with the support of people like you, that's where we're going to get. So thank you, Josh.

You're so welcome, man. Okay. Until Eric and I see you again in three to five years where we don't have this conversation, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk with you next week.

Peace.

Hey, don't go anywhere. Now that you're here, let me say thank you for being a part of this podcast. Click any of the buttons on this screen here, or here or anywhere, because these are specifically matched episodes that you'll really love based on what you just saw. Just tap one of these buttons on the screen, and while you're at it, subscribe to the podcast.