The Wisdom of Trauma: How Suffering Illuminates Your Path of Purpose

If you curse God or if you curse life, then life will continue to curse you. And so it comes down to being humble and saying, okay, this is my responsibility. It's not God. It's not my mom, it's not my dad. It's not anybody else. It's not society. It's me. And from that place of responsibility and ownership, now we really have power to change. And that's humility, saying, like, okay, it's on me. And I can't do it alone. Because as men, we're used to lone wolfing. The lone wolf in nature dies, Right. They're out there howling for another pack to take them in because they've been ousted from their pack, from their community, and they're going to die because wolves have to hunt in packs. And as men, we have to know how to work together in brotherhood and cooperation and unity to be able to hunt the big game of culture in these times, to be able to change the narrative and to be able to take back what is being stripped of us. And that is our masculinity, that is our true identity as sons of the most high living God.

This is meaningful to me because you're a father. I'm a father. And there's been this conversation of God that I was inspired to hear you on the Danny Morell podcast. Yeah, I. I rarely listen to episodes. I listen to the whole thing.

Wow.

And I was, like, deeply, deeply moved by your story and just what you stand for in the world, dude. So if people don't know you, maybe they've seen you, maybe they've heard about you. Don't give us the juice yet, but, like, give us what is Albert in a couple sentences, at least the version of him now.

Yeah. Simply put, I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm a leader, I'm a steward, and I'm a son of the most High living God. And I'm devoted to expanding our capacity as men and as human beings to be conduits for God's love. I was saved by God's grace, and I'm here speaking these words today with you, by God's grace. And so I give it up to the most High, and I'm here to serve. I'm a servant.

That was a deep one. You're a deep man. You're a spiritual man. But also what I feel from you is this contrast. You had, like, 20 years in. It is not exactly a spiritual proving ground. Right. So I think it was Fortune 500 companies that you worked in for a Long time and two decades of your life, like making the dollar, making the cheddar, dude. But when I think about maybe what was going on for you there during that time to be the contrast that allowed you to be the boss, what was going on during those 20 years that was kind of bubbling up and bringing you the contrast to mature you, to be the leader, the man, the husband that you are now. Because nature hates a vacuum. There was some stuff going on for 20 years in it. So walk us through that, man. For people that maybe are in jobs right now where they feel the spiritual longing, but they're there in a place where it's maybe not conducive to spiritual growth.

Sure. And I would say that everywhere, wherever we are right now in life is conducive to our spiritual growth. But it takes the correct perspective, we have to have the correct orientation to recognize that every moment is an opportunity to grow deeper in our spirituality, deeper in who we are. So, you know, there's this misconception, I would say, born of our own adherence to illusions or delusions, that right now is not where we need to be or want to be. So wherever we are right now, listener, wherever you are right now is exactly where you need to be to grow, to take your next step. This is your point of power, you know. And so all those years spent in it, those were my proving grounds. That was where I matured as a man, where I learned to hold responsibility. And it might seem like menial tasks from where I am today. It might feel like that. Yeah. But where I was then, I was responsible. I was meeting a need. I was fixing someone's problem, you know, I was helping this different corporations to achieve greatness in their eyes and their company visions, you know. And now I'm doing that for my own. So that was a. It was a big transition, and I needed that. I needed those times where I was ultimately selling my time, selling my energy, and selling sharing my gifts in a very limited capacity. And I needed that because God wants to see what we can do with this now moment, with what we have right here, right now. Not tomorrow, not when we have the nice house or the perfect life, but right now, wherever we are right now in life, that's our responsibility to make this the best life ever, right now. And so all those years spent in it, you know, there were different periods of it. Some of it was, you know, intensely fulfilling for me. I got a lot of satisfaction in meeting people's problems, in fixing solutions, in creative ways, you know. And so I thrived in the environment, in the corporate environment. I appreciated walking into those doors and scanning my badge. You know, there was a time in my life where it felt like an accomplishment that I made it in some way, you know, working on the C level, supporting these, you know, you know, heads of the large corporations. It felt like I was fulfilling my purpose at the time. Yeah. But, you know, as God works in mysterious ways, it came to a point where I was called deeper. I was called to meet the parts of myself that I did not know that I was running away from. And so I went through a massive death and rebirth multiple times during the course of my time in it. And so having that corporate job and that regular salary actually gave me the stability that I needed to fulfill, I would say, like, my householder responsibilities to my family of origin, you know. And so I was subsumed into this role of father because of the void that my father left us when he left my family. And it was my mom, my two sisters, and myself. And so I was the man of the house. And I wasn't equipped to face that responsibility. I didn't have a good model in my father of how to meet that.

Yeah.

And beyond that, there aren't many models. I mean, you know, maybe some sitcoms. Sure.

Which traditionally emasculate men, like Everybody Loves Raymond. Or then you get the strong silent type like John Wayne that doesn't say anything.

Yeah.

There's not some good examples. So I think we're similar in age.

But married with children.

Yeah.

These are not Simpson.

These are not integrated men.

No.

So how old were you when dad left?

11.

At 11 years old, God was like, here's everything. What are you gonna do?

Well, that was my initiation, you know, and oftentimes in tribal cultures, that's around the age when boys are initiated into manhood. Right. By the tribe. And so as I reflect and in retrospect, it's clear that that was my initiation into manhood and subsuming the responsibilities, or at least the energetic role of the household, that I'm the man of the house, even though my dad didn't say, hey, you're the man of the house, son. You know, my mother and father got into a huge fight, and they already separated since I was five. But that was like the end of the road. That was just shattering the illusion that my parents would ever be together again. And so it was really the death of the boy and the hopes that one day my family could be whole. One day my mother and father could reconcile their differences and see us and See our need for them to be mother and father. And in the shattering of that illusion, you know, I had, I went to survival mode. You know, I, I cut off and, and shut down in many ways and just survived, you know, as an 11 year old with a mom reeling from, in chaos and trying to put food on the table, having three young kids. And so, you know, it was really an opportunity for me to find myself, you know, through twists and turns that were, that were challenging. You know, I didn't know myself at that time. I was 11. What 11 year old really knows themselves, right. And so I feel like I just clung to what made me feel good, you know, and that was the beginning of like my master addiction to masturbation, of just wanting to spend time at my friends houses all the time and just really wanting to run away from the pain in my household, which is understandable.

I mean, at 11, it's not like you were gifted to a situation with emotional intelligence, nor at that age are you able to cultivate that, that kind of intelligence. And I see how you are now, and it's like the truest form, I believe, of inspiration is how I feel and what I see when I look at someone who's leading. And I see that in you. I truly see that in you. And it's funny because when I think about where you've come from, and there's way more to talk about too, it was almost like you needed, and I know you and I have heard this analogy before, you needed to be pulled back so far as an arrow, that by the time finally you had your awakening in 2008, that the arrow shot further than it ever could have if it wasn't pulled back so hard. So there was something about your journey to 2008 before you had the NDE, and let's tell that story. But that is something that I see, Albert, with like everyone that's created significance in this world. And I wonder if that's God's design. In other words, do we always need to the, the, the crazy pulling back of the stress and the torment and the grief, or can we still serve just as big if we're not pulled back so far? I wonder how you feel about that.

That's a beautiful question, you know, because with many answers I would say, but what's alive for me in this moment when you ask that is we live in a time when humanity as a whole, we've fallen really far from like the truth of who we are, you know, as sons and daughters of the most high, you know, we are born of infinity, of eternity. We are born of love. We are born of love, you know, and look at the state of the world today. And we just know just the way that things are operating, the systems in place, the leaders in the world, like, we are not living God's vision for this earth. You know, we can say everything's perfect, but we are blessed with free will so we can grow from separation to union, right? To experience our own gnosis. And so right now, I believe the souls that are being born into bodies need to go through a trial by fire, need to be tested by death, by death, by death itself, in many forms before we can be proven that we can ring true. When the time comes, when you're tested with our integrity, can we show up to this monumental responsibility to love? To love in these times when there's so much fear, there's so much division, there's so much hate and a lot of it engineered, of course. And we know all those things. And if you're listening to this podcast, you know those things. You know, you're. You're blasting out so much love and wisdom. And in these times right now, it's so crucial that we cultivate knowledge and apply it into our own lives so we can cultivate wisdom. Because that's the gold, right? The wisdom. So, yes, I do believe that if we are here to serve in any real way, even if it's just our family and not just our family, being a man and showing up to serve our family is being the pillar of God in our household is being order and bringing order to chaos, right? And so regardless of our task that we are appointed in this lifetime, and it varies, right? Everybody has a different path, and it's perfect. Wherever you are right now, that's perfect. You're in the perfect point to take the next step on your path. And so for the leaders who are listening and for the leaders in this time, you know, prayer's up. You know, we've been blessed to face our karmic return. I believe that there's no accidents. Everything is God and perfection unfolding. And so God doesn't make any mistakes. We are born into the exact circumstances. Even though when I was young, I was like, this is not fair. There can't be a God, because it was an atheistic household too. You know, there was no God in my household. There was no sacred. I mean, not to say that there wasn't, but there was no outer adherence or celebration in any in those forms, right? There's no religious celebrations and even like, you know, Christmas. I mean, until later on. My mom brought that. But my father was very anti religion, anti God, anti Christmas, anti holidays, very scientific materialist. He was an engineer, mining engineer, really mathematic minded, really, like, loved history like a wealth, a library of knowledge, and really emotionally stunted.

Wow. We share that. I mean, you just described my father, which is possibly why on an energetic level, I feel a connection with you. And definitely the past few times we've hung out, which is what inspired this podcast, I'm like, okay, if our fathers receive their wounding, and if your dad. What was your dad's name?

John.

If John received his wounding and that wounding informed your trauma and informed whatever you needed to grow or be. Be shot like an arrow.

Yeah.

What was the gift in all of that for him? That maybe he either unwrapped or not. But then what was the gift for you? It's easy now to talk about it.

Yeah.

Then no way. But right now, as a man, as a father, as a leader.

Yeah.

You can look back, probably with wisdom. What wisdom can you share with us about the wounding in him, how it informed you, and the gift for maybe both.

Yeah. I'm smiling right now because, like, I just. I see my dad, I feel him in my heart, and like, I. I just love him so much now. Even though I cursed his name and hated him and was so angry and also afraid and sad, it took me a long time to come to that point of being even open to communicating with him. And I didn't actually know where he lived or where he was until I was 23. And so he reached out, and that's a whole another story. But after moving through over a decade of work on the father wound, of clearing that, of healing, of reconciling, of so much communication back and forth, I can mine the gold now and share it, that our parents are the greatest gift from God to us. And so regardless of how we might perceive them and how unconscious they might be, may or may not be, they are exactly what our soul needs to evolve into our highest form. And that. That might be difficult or triggering for anybody to hear, especially if you don't. You're not oriented to a deep faith. Right. Because this is an awareness that can only be born of faith. Otherwise, you're just talking shit. Like, what are you talking about? You mean that my father molesting me or my mother molesting me was a gift from God? Well, fuck you. That's probably a lot of people's perspective. When you face intense trauma and the human can't hold that unless we do the work to heal. And so I cursed my dad for a long time. And through the healing work and really integrating the soul lessons that he was here to teach me, I bless him now and I love him now, and we have a great relationship now. So I love you, dad. I'm gonna share this episode with him. Yeah, he taught me. He taught me that our real father is. Is the most high is God. Because in the absence of my human father and the love that I longed for from him, I was able to break, to break and expand, to find that within myself and to experience that, you know, And I feel like it was an orientation that I needed to move from the personal to the transpersonal to the. To, you know, to expand in that way. Because my mission requires that. My sole purpose requires that, and yours does too. And I'm sure anybody in this space who's had to reconcile with the father wounded mother would consciously. Because there's many people that go through life and they just suffer and cause suffering and never get to it in this lifetime. And that's their Dharma and that's their path, you know? But nobody's left without God's guidance.

God's guidance is an interesting phrase because there was probably 20 plus years. I was, like, angrier than anything out there at God. I was. So I can remember, actually, moments when. Because I was raised by a bipolar mother. And there were moments where I'd be like, in La Mesa, California, walking to school, and I would look up at the sky and I would flip off the sky and I would say, fuck you, God. How can you let my mom have this illness? How can you let all these bullies bully me? How can you let people die? At 13 years old, one of my buddies in school got hit by a car. How can God allow these things to occur that are so mysterious and so painful and cause so much grief? And what I've come to now at 42, is like, it's the honoring of this mystery. That's the only thing that gives me solace. I have to honor the mystery. If I try to figure it out with this, I will always drive myself absolutely insane. And everything will suffer. My physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and financial. What do you make of that? Because that's probably before you had the awareness in 2008. What drove the drug addiction? I assume I could be wrong. What do you make of that? How did that drive the addiction? Because Mate talks about addiction as the opposite of connection. Connection with self or connection with others. So you were an addict for a while.

Yeah, I was.

And maybe that question where I was had my finger at the sky to God. Was that a question you ever asked yourself that drove the addiction?

Well, for in my world, there just wasn't a God. I didn't even have a God to curse. Because in my reality, until I had my awakening, there was no God. God wasn't real. This was just an empty, soulless world. We are just these bodies when we die. That's it. This is all random. Like, it was a very bleak worldview that I was born into. And so it was like, for me, in my awareness, it was just suffering. My household was chaos, you know, it was just sad. And I saw the contrast between my household and my friends households through elementary school and middle school. And I was like, why? Why did I get dealt this hand? You know, and so I couldn't fathom that there's order in this seemingly chaotic and random reality, you know, And I wasn't attuned to, like, synchronistic alignments or serendipity at that point. And so it was just like dog eat dog. It's just survival and just make the best of it. And so for me, finding drugs, it was an escape. It was an escape for myself and the pain that was within me. And so I clung to them, you know, for. It started with, you know, cannabis, beautiful gateway drug, medicine, depending on how you use it. Because I believe that that's the case. It's like, yeah, it's a drug or medicine depending on how you utilize it. Are you utilizing it to grow closer to God, or are you utilizing it to, you know, cope with a reality that. And. And, you know, there's no judgment, you know, coming out of the addiction portal. And having been through that journey, like the dregs of it, you know, to the point where I was going to end my life, where that was like the best choice that I had was to end my life. So, yeah, I believe that ultimately everything leads us back home to ourselves. If we're willing to keep an open mind and to inquire and to seek, you know, we need those qualities and we have to have the courage to seek.

Was that question something like, why God? Why? That's a phrase, actually, that's very universal, I think, for people that go through trauma or stress. Did you have a point in your journey? And again, we're speaking from contrast, right? Because here you are now. How old are you now?

I'm 38.

Okay, you're 38 now. When you were in 2008.

Yeah.

10 years ago. Yeah. Plus 13 years ago.

13.

Did you ever even fathom at the. In the throes of your addiction that you would be where you are now and leading the literally hundreds of thousands of men across the world that you are now? It's funny. It's a funny thing, because back in 2008, before your NDE, there's probably no way that was online. Or was it.

It wasn't.

Not even. Not even there.

It wasn't online. No. I was on the other side of life. I was. My perspective was so limited. It was. I. I know. Like, it's fascinating for me to reflect on my whole journey from, like, as early as I can remember, because I just. I was in some really primitive states of consciousness and perception, and I feel like my acceleration, when I look back on it. I question whether that's normal for humanity or normal for people in general. But, like, coming from a very, like, primitive unconscious place and being able to, like, look back and tap into, like, how I perceive life and myself to where I am now, it's. It's fascinating to be on this ever unfolding and evolving experience of consciousness. And I. You know, I do believe we are all on this journey, but I know that I've. From where I started to where I am now, I crossed a huge gulf in moving from unconsciousness and lack of awareness of self and my impact on life.

Yeah.

To where I am now.

It was the only thing that from. From what I saw in the episode with Danny. And also, I believe we've talked about this maybe at a rise house or somebody's house. The one thing that saved you, where you were, like, really in connection with God and really in communion with God, was when you finally just surrendered everything.

Yeah.

And you said. I don't know exactly what you said. I'd love for you to share that story. And, you know, it brings up, like, the hair in my arms when I think about it, because when I saw you talk about that, I thought, okay, honestly, take an inventory. Josh, have I ever wanted to kill myself? And the answer was no. But I have been at that place in 2014, like, kneeling in the middle of the night on a golf course, like, praying to God and just asking, like, I don't know what to do. I don't want to do that. That's not what I want. And if you want me to do that, I don't want to be here anymore. Yeah, but you had your own. You had your own story there. And I know you've told this story before, but please, man, if you can just share with people, even a man watching right now, or a woman who supports a man in his life that is either going in that direction or is in that place that you were in, can you, can you speak to them right now from your own story, from your own journey of, of the nd?

Yeah, yeah. I would say a saying that comes to mind, you know, when we touch on this topic. And, and my, my experience specifically is there's a quote from Rumi, right? He said the wound is the, the place where the light enters and that, that sums it up, you know. And so for any man listening right now who's suffering, who feels like there's just no way out, like you're at that dead end, you're feeling hopeless, you're feeling lost, you're like, how am I going to do this? And you have the responsibility of people depending on you. Yeah. And so it was really the pain, the suffering and the weight of it and not being able to escape from it and it becoming such, such a deep cognitive dissonance from the man I wanted to be new deep down that I could be, but simply wasn't able to be because of this unconscious pull to keep on destroying myself, right. And to keep on running from what felt like an insurmountable obstacle had become insurmountable. I was, I was hopeless. I was helpless. I was powerless against this force that was destroying me. And I, as much as I wanted it so badly, I couldn't break out. You know, even though I always considered myself to kind of be a strong minded person. Addiction, like it, it brought me down to my knees. And really it was because I was operating from separation. I was operating from, you know, like, I'm alone in this. There's no God and there was no God in my worldview. And so it was just me against the world in a sense. Even though I had friends and I had good relationships and people did love and care about me for my soul, I didn't want to be a burden to anybody. You know, I knew that. I felt that I didn't want to be a burden to anybody and so becoming such a burden to myself. And there's, there's all tied up into a different, so many different feelings like shame, helplessness, just being lost, no sense of home. You know, I was, I was holding space for my, my family. At the time, we had just merged households. My mother and my two sisters. My younger sister was going through intense bouts of mental illness and, and she was schizoaffective that was her diagnoses. So this is a blend of like bipolar and schiz, schizophrenic symptoms. And so she was hearing voices. She was literally in hell every day. It was, it was tormenting to see her. And I was also responsible financially for the household. I wasn't solely. My mother was as well. And so it was like being brought back into this role of father. I moved out when I was 19, so I was brought back when I was 23 to like, my mom's like, hey, we need your help. You know, we're really having a hard time here. And they live at the apartment we grew up in from middle school through high school. Two bedroom apartment, not in the best area. And so I was making more money and I was, you know, struggling with addiction. And so I was like, okay, this is probably the time to do that. But being brought back into the household and faced with what I'd run from was, was so challenging. And so I'd like, you know, have these, you know, inspirational bouts of like, I can do this and I'd like to get clean for a little bit, you know, and I'd fall back down. And it was just like this back and forth of not being able to break free that made me really feel helpless, like, I can't do this. And that brought me to my knees. And the thoughts started becoming really intrusive until it really started bubbling up into like an obsession, like, okay, this is actually the best way out, you know, and I'd snap out of it at times. But then it came to that point where it was so bad and I wanted to go, I wanted to go score. I had had a few days clean at this point, and I was working a corporate job. I was try trying to honor my responsibilities as a good son, as a brother, as a friend. And so there's so much shame having this closeted addiction, so much self hatred. And so I one night, I remember just, I was like, I want to go score. I was like, that was just all I could have on my mind, you know, and like, I deleted my dealer's numbers. I'd like gone through great lengths to like disconnect me. I looked up, like on my phone bill, I remember looking up and finding the number, you know, because I was like, that's how the addiction works, you know, it'll utilize what we already know to like, sabotage us. And I, I, in that moment of like going to such a length to score, when I promised myself again, yet again, that I wasn't going To. I was like, no, like, I need to die. Like, I'm no good to anybody. Yeah. And that feeling, it's just like, it's the worst feeling, you know? And so I know there's a lot of people out there that feel that way of like, there's no way out. And there's no way out unless we have God in our hearts. Unless we have God in our life.

There's.

There is no way out. The only way is through. And only with God's love can we get through. And I didn't know that at that point. And it wasn't until like something deep within me, it wasn't even me, it was like it was the soul that I am. It wasn't the outer self that was running my life and making the choices in my life. It was my soul that came forward and cried out and said, if you're real, God, I need you. I need to know. And it was a declaration from my soul that I've had enough. Had enough, Father. That was the energy of it. And the good Father who's here right now, who exists within all life, came, came into my heart, came into my being. It felt alien. I didn't even know what it was. I'd never experienced anything like that. You know, it felt like a vibration. It was just so foreign. It was alien. But then it became. Then it broke through. Like it broke through something within me. I felt it like just burst. And it was my heart. It came into my heart and it was like I was a little baby. It felt like I was just a baby being held by all loving parents, being cradled, being loved, being soothed and all that agony and self hatred and fear and loathing and all that I felt just dissolved. It dissolved and was replaced by this unrelenting peace, this great deep calm and this like parental love, deeply personal parental love that I believe every child longs for and most of the time aren't fully met in our personal human relationships and our parental relationships very often. Yeah. And so that was a moment and it completely changed trajectory of my life. Suddenly, okay, God is real. And I vowed, God stayed with me. You know, it felt like an eternity, but it was probably more like 20 minutes. But it stayed because I said, don't leave me, don't leave me, I'm not ready. And it just stayed. It just stayed and it stayed and it was communicating with me beyond words. And I say it because I don't know what form of God, angel, Holy Spirit. I've told this story and people are like, oh, that was this. That's this. That's. All I know is it was divine. It was divine. And it was deeply personal. It was super conscious. It was beyond time and space, and it knew me inside and out, and it promised and it let me know that it was. It had always been there and it would always be with me and it would guide me if I would listen and follow their lead.

Oh, I mean, if I would listen. You said if I would listen.

Yes.

So there's. There's so many. I mean, dude, thank you so much for sharing that, because I know somebody right now is crying because I'm. I'm crying, so. I know, I know the laughter and the emotion and just the expansion that I felt from. From your story connects to so many moments in my life that are different yet similar to yours.

Yeah.

And then that's what everybody feels. So I'm. I'm. I'm. Now I'm like, okay, where in my life, where in our lives do we unconsciously or consciously choose to not listen? How and where do we do that? What are your thoughts?

It's deep. It's deep because being born into form in a human body, immediately we are impressed upon, like, the gravitational pull of the physical reality, which is like the contracting force which you can call even the satanic force. Yeah. Would you.

Would you also identify that as Watiko?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's, you know, at the highest level, it is God, too.

Sure.

At the highest level, but it's also not God, you know, and so that's the paradox. Like, it is separation, but that separation also drives the evolution of consciousness and gives us the opportunity to choose this day whom we will serve. Choose this day who you will serve. And so when we're making choices moment to moment, our destiny is being forked by the choices we make, whether we're moving closer to God or further away from God by our own choices. Are we going to serve you? You cannot serve two masters. Are we here to serve God or the ways of the world as socially acceptable or as right as our mind might believe them to be?

Yeah.

You know, and so ultimately, I do believe that we have to, moment to moment, be deeply aware and present with who we are and why we're here. And so orienting around our why is important. And there's all kinds of whys out there. But for me, when God saved my life, my why is God, like, that's the reason I'm alive. Like. Like, literally, it is the reason I am alive. And that's where my faith that's the bedrock of my faith. It's God saving my life and communicating to me not through a person, but through time and space within my heart. And so that set me on my mission. I said, okay, we're doing life now. I'm doing God. This is all there is. This is the most important thing. Nothing else matters. At that point, nothing else mattered. This was all there is. And of course, you know, lots of healing, lots of twists and turns, because there were times where I veered off of listening. I stopped listening because of the choices I made, which cut me off from that direct guidance. Because when we make enough choices that say, no, I'm not going to listen, we're thrown into the wilds of life and we have to work by the sweat of our brow. We have to face, you know, we're not. We don't have that same level of protection and guidance and intercession. Because when we're really in service and we're humble to that and know that through and through, and we make choices that reflect that, then we have all the blessings and we're guided. And even though, like, we're faced with challenges and they're very difficult, we have the capacity to meet them with God. But sometimes we believe that we can do otherwise, that we can do it without God, that we're doing it on our own. And that's when we need to be humbled. And that's where more suffering comes in. And so it's like, do we need to meet the pain teacher or are willing to humble ourselves and listen to the deeper ask that is being called upon us?

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What has gravity for me is you had mentioned in that moment, I'm going to live my life for God. I'm letting everything else go. Yeah, there was some wavering and whatnot. And it reminds me of one of my favorite talks or sermons that Alan Watts gave and he said this quote, that when a soul makes a declaration in this world that is going to be of service to love or of service to good, that at that moment the. The dark energy, the demonic energy in the world, they're put on notice and they will come to test you.

This is true.

So it is. It is natural that. And I'm paraphrasing, but that was essentially the, the meaning of his talk.

Oh yeah.

So you declare I am a stand for love, I'm a stand for good. I'm going to be there for myself, my family, my community and others. And then the devil, the demonic energy, the Watiko, whatever we want to conceptualize.

With our verb, the contracting force comes in. Yeah.

And it says, are you sure? Oh, are you sure that you want to be loving? Because I have all these tantalizing things that I can wrap the octopus around your ankle and pull you down. So what do you make of that? This push, pull, dark, light, it's really the singularity at 1, but inside of that there's obviously the yin and the yang.

Yes, definitely. Yeah. Beautifully put. You know, because God is overseeing all of it, is in control of all of it. Right. That's like the oneness of reality is that God is in ultimate control, even of the darkness. Even though darkness believes that it has free will, its free will is being used to bring people closer to God. So it's. Even the darkness is always being used for light. Yes. You know, there's no other. Is. Is God at the deepest level? And so it's an opportunity for us to exercise our free will and to demonstrate our devotion. Like God knows, like God is no respecter of persons. And what that means is God can see right through all of it. Right? I am naked before God. We are naked before God. God sees us through and through all of it. And so God will always bring us whatever we need to grow. And if we're growing in accordance with God's vision for our life, then that looks like blessings. Even when those blessings to us, our separate self, might not seem like blessings. And so when what we might want to call the opponent or the wetiko, you know, or the unconscious, it works through different vectors, either through someone else or through ourselves. Right. And so if we have. Or if we're no longer a house divided against ourselves, and we're strong in our why and who we are, and we invite God into our being every day. It's a daily. It's a moment to moment even. But when we have that guidance and that protection, you know, we. It's like we more free reality. Like we're bending time and space for the higher vision.

What do you mean by free ality? You said free ality.

Well, actually, no, I didn't, but I.

Like a free reality.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe I'm.

You just pull that from the ether, bro. Free literality.

Free ality. So freedom and reality. The only way we can be free is if we accept and surrender to what is.

That's it.

That's not just spiritual babble. That's hard sometimes because a lot of people try to pretend they're doing that, but they're really Dan Bilzerian with like a bunch of bikinis and drugs and all this. That's just masking.

Yeah.

An archetype that's really the high chair tyrant.

Yeah.

So. So we, We. We get to this place and you got to this place in 2008 where you finally said, all right, I let go, I surrender. And in that moment, you were fucking free.

I was.

You were actually the most free that you'd probably ever been in your whole life.

Completely. Completely. Because I was fully surrendered to God. I was fully surrendered. And I was praying hours a day. I was in communion hours a day, you know, really reaching to continue to cultivate and establish and maintain that connection, because that was that directive, cling to me while you're weak. And I was still weak. It wasn't just like, you're healed, everything's good. It's not. I still had to honor the human so that I can honor the spirit. I still had to walk my path and face my karma. But now God was in reality. And so what felt like an unbearable weight that was crushing me was now my joyous responsibility to meet my mountain to tackle, you know, and that reframe was really empowering and. And so were the, the practices that rooted me into it, you know, and, and, and just to be frank, like, I bypassed, you know, with prayer, with meditation, with just isolating. I cut off, like, all connection to the outside world. Pretty much wasn't watching any tv, wasn't reading any media.

Literally a pretty good idea, though for.

Me at the time, it was, yeah, you know, because I had multiple addictions, you know, I was mixing my sexual energy with the wrong type of people I was using and abusing for many years. And so it was an opportunity to clean the slate. To clean the slate and to purify, to cleanse and to die to who I was.

At some point. It was Amara Samata that you received training from. And I went to the website, this is the Inner Guidance Institute. And on the website there was a phrase that was the ultimate bomb drop that I want to get your. Your opinion on. At what point in your life did this, what I'm about to say, feel true? She said, in every relationship, mastery awaits. So when you hear that, do you immediately go to the relationship with yourself, or do you go to the relationship with your wife and your family and your business? Which one hits you harder in that moment when you hear that?

I feel like it started with my relationship with my father. That was like the first one where I really, like, that started, like, being such a part of my process as working through my father wound he up. Like there was so much of my energy that was wrapped up in his, His. My experience with him as a. As my dad, you know, how in the ways he showed up, in the ways he didn't. So that was the first, I would say, the first great relationship and teacher that took me deeper into myself and who I am. And the next is my mother. The next is definitely my mother. And that story continues on to today of, of, you know, holding space for her decline in dementia, you know, and like, losing her in that way, seeing her, like, cognitive decline and, you know, just beginning to, like, at times forget who I am as her son. You know, the other day we were driving and she was like, oh, you know, when you're, when your mother gave you up for adoption. And I, and I, I already had two of my own kids, you know, and I, I did felt like I couldn't do it, but I said yes. I said yes because I saw that you were a really smart kid and that you deserved a chance. It Was like, boom. Like, wow, mom. Like, and I just like, kind of like it was fascinating for me to observe, like, you know, what I was moving through, just like the full range of like, and the deep knowing that like, oh, like our time is done as in, in this, like her living in her household and it being such like a daily part of my path, it was like, it clicked. I was like, oh. Even though I'd been doing a lot of somatic work, a lot of letting go for the four years that she was living with us and perhaps even for longer, it crystallized in that moment. I was like, oh, like this is the next layer of letting go as she's letting go of me unconsciously now, you know. So, yeah, I would say the first was my father and my deep relationship and healing the father wound and coming into a place of like, acceptance and love and like just being so. I love my father so much and I'm so grateful that he chose to birth, to have children, you know, and then my mother for like being so self sacrificing and modeling what true compassion was of giving homeless people money that we needed.

Yeah.

You know, of just like being that like bleeding heart. And so. Yeah. And in both my relationships with both of them took me deeper into my own self mastery, you know, and now it's me or it's or after them, it's like oriented to me. And of course, every significant relationship in my life as a teacher, I learned from everybody, like literally, but probably most.

Intensely from your children.

Yeah.

From your wife.

Oh, yeah. Now. Yeah, now that poll has shifted and it's definitely my children, my wife.

Man, I can relate. I would say, and I wonder how you feel about this, that for my own life and for all men. Let's speak specifically to men.

Okay.

Because for the women that are with us, that support them, or for the men that are here with us, that are looking at why do I feel the way that I feel? Why do I have this pain? Why do I have this judgment? Why do I not know anything about what love really is?

Yeah.

Because that was my story for a long time. Yeah. For specific, I guess you could say transformations and practices for sure, in medicine. So in that space I can reflect and say the biggest wounds are actually my biggest weight. That pulled me down and that made me not share work in a corporate setting. Nothing wrong with a corporate setting. Forced me to be in a cubicle. Forced me to be in a cubicle and put a cube around my heart and like sit in my own discomfort because I was still angry at Dan Trent, angry at Mary Padolino, angry at God. Like all of this anger is actually underneath probably another layer below it that is really just ultimate grief and sadness. If you look, you can look at the Hawkins scale or not, that's it. But below all of my anger and all of my everything was probably just grief and sadness. So can you speak to. And to piggyback on my other question, but the starting place seems like from what you shared, and definitely I resonate with your share, that it starts with healing the mother and father wound.

Yeah.

And that's actually then what opens up the cave for us to go into self, into the man that's in our hearts.

Yeah. That's a beautiful way to articulate it. And I would say in general, the father wound is something we must reconcile with first, especially as men, you know, if there's anything that needs to be cleared, you know, even if the mother might seem like more glaring in her misalignment, whatever, it's important to go to the father first because that's our, you know, masculine model. That's our template. Right. And then so there's this. I know you talk about this a lot, the epigenetic or ancestral component to it. Right. It's passed on generation after generation after generation. It really is cross generational, you know, and it's multi leveled. It's physical, it's emotional, it's mental, it's spiritual and it's energetic. It's energetic. And so reconciling with just how we feel, like how is it to be in this body, in this life right now, that's what we got to work with. That's what we need to transform. Right. That's our opportunity to really deepen into masculine alchemy, which is a transformation of self. And we start right where we are. You start right where you are, brother, with whatever you're feeling right now. But that takes courage and honesty to even get to the truth of what we're feeling. Because oftentimes, like you said, acute cube around my heart. Well put. It's like when we don't have access to our heart because of all the walls and all the layers around it, then we're just skating on the surface of life, you know, we're medicating to kind of keep us bound and together, like to keep it together. Right. Like, like we try so hard to keep it together when really, like we need to let it all go and fall apart before it can really come together. And like, that's like, that's the Rock bottom, right? Coming to a rock bottom, which can serve as the foundation of who we are in an authentic way. And that's usually why we have these experiences like where we're on our knees. You just spoke it right on my knees. And just praying. When we come to that place, it's like our heart opens because we're humble, because we're like, I don't got all the answers. I can't do this. I can't literally can't do this. And so it's so crucial that as men especially because we, we hold so much. Women too. We all hold so much. But having to maintain these different roles as father, as man, as provider and like kind of living in this shadow, right? This like Persona, this mask wearing these masks that I'm okay, I have it all together. A piecing our self worth together from the outside of outsourcing so much of what we need to really learn to self source. And when I say self source, that's a capital S speaking to our true self in God, our soul, you know. And so just to be very clear, it's like, it's just important that we orient around ultimate reality, the isness, which is God, you know, regardless of what word you want to use, call it love, because these are just human conceptions. But it's important that we go to the ground floor as deep as we can go in our own self inquiry and to call in the guides, the support, the mentors, the healers, whatever it might be, to be open and to be humble, to say, I can't do this alone and I don't have all the answers. Let me see what's out there, right? Let me explore and see what I feel called to and try it out. Even if sometimes it might not work out or you have a negative experience, it just takes you to the next way station where we can fill up, where we can be nourished. Because we're coming in with so much ancestral trauma. Yeah, so much trauma. Think about, we've been through genocides, wars, collapses, famines, human history. It's, it's, it's atrocious. But that's like, that's where we are. Like considering the evolution of consciousness. You know, we've, we live on a very immature and evolutionarily primitive planet in some ways, like I, and I'm not saying that from a place of judgment. It's just honoring the fact that we're still murdering each other, killing each other, raping each other, exploiting each other as if we're separate. Like it's it's, it's madness. And that's why, like Wetiko and Paul Levy's work and Jack D. Forbes, the indigenous author that, you know, he references a lot of his material from, you know, it's important that we get to the roots of where we're coming from and to find like a correct ontological orientation that can support our evolution, right, that can support us in taking that next step. And it might be very simple. It might be as simple as going, I need a therapist and I need to talk to someone that's outside of my life who can listen to me and give me some good reflections for me. I spent years in personal therapy and group therapy and I grew so much in those contexts, you know, and it led me to where I am now in holding space myself and, you know, training in somatic practices and facilitation approaches that can support the movement of energy, but ultimately comes down to moving from a place of unconsciousness, of the darkness, right, the unconsciousness and transforming ourselves into the gold of God. That's the alchemical process, moving from darkness to light. And it's literal and it's symbolic. And you look at like the old alchemical texts, per Celsius and other great, um, other great alchemists that aren't coming to mind right now. But the greatest alchemists are the ones like Christ, like Yeshua, like the Buddha, like Krishna. These are God realized human beings. You know, they came into a human body and demonstrated what it is to be God. And that is the gold, right? That is the shining sun, the solar logos in masculine form, demonstrating the power of God and over nature, over the creation, you know, so you hear these, you know, stories, right, of Jesus, of Yeshua, raising the dead. And it sounds fantastic to our modern minds, like, sounds like a fairy tale. Unless you've experienced the miraculous nature of God, unless you've been touched by God in some way that expands us beyond our mind into our soul knowing. And we're like, oh, wow, that's God. That was God there. That was God in India or Tibet or the Middle east or North America. God's been everywhere, God's been embodied many, many times beyond our knowing. But if we trace it back, there's many texts, there's many teachings to help us remember, even though a lot of libraries of esoteric wisdom were burnt in the past. And like there's this, like, you know, it's a satanic force. When God comes, we better be ready to face the slings and arrows of life, right? And like that's the. That's the love, too. To face the contracting force and to demonstrate that with God anything is possible.

Otherwise, love would be easy all the time.

It has to be a choice.

Love has to be some kind of a contrast that we consciously step into.

Yeah.

And if it wasn't, then everybody would just be loving and we would never know what love actually is in a paradox. Because we wouldn't have its opposite.

Yes. That would be.

Give us the torment or. Or give us that contrast to. To actually be catapulted from. And, you know, you. And you mentioned masculine alchemy, and you've also talked about the alchemist. I think of Paulo Coelo, which is like the most beautiful. I love that book is like one of my favorite books. I remember I bought the cd. You remember back in the day, we used to use CDs.

Yeah, man.

CD players in your car.

Compact discs.

We had CDs. And I listened to that over and over and over again in my Toyota Tacoma, in my little Panasonic there. And. And one thing that I was realizing when you were speaking was we cannot have any alchemy if we are not galvanized by life, by the fire.

Oh, yeah. Like, in order.

In order for alchemicals to bubble, we would need some kind of a heat or a forging of the. The sledgehammer on the anvil with the sword. So when men finally step into the fire and they're like, okay, I'm ready to be forged, they show up to a sacred son's event, or they go through your journey that you have for the men. And at some point they realize that this return of the Father archetype to the planet through men's relational and physical training. Relational is interesting because I think that's probably where the alchemy really sits in. But the physical is where I assume you begin. And it's the same way that we teach with wellness and wisdom at the bottom of the Pentagon is physical. Then there's spiritual, emotional, financial. Everything else builds from there. And mental.

So.

So I wonder, like, when men finally arrive, they're like, forge me. They're not giving you their power. They're actually seeking the power that they already have.

Talk about that. That's a beautiful way to phrase it. Yes. It's really a hero's journey. Right. When a man steps into sacred sons and it's in the name. Right. It's a humbling reminder of who we are and a responsibility to life. We are sacred sons. We are sacred sons. So we are born of the Sacred right. The most precious. And we are sons. We are men, and we have a responsibility as men. And so coming in right there, a man is already crossing a threshold. They're saying, I need more than what I have. And they might not be fully aware of this, but really they are, right? They're co signing, they're saying, yes, I want to explore what it is to be a sacred son. And that's a tall order for a lot of men in this life, in this time, but it's huge because that's a humbling right there. To be counted, to stay. Okay, I'm going to pay money. I'm going to invest my time, energy and resources to come and see what this is all about. So whether it's by their own choice or someone that loves them very much, that says, hey, this will be good for you, you know, maybe a wife, a partner, a father, a son, a mother. We've had all different archetypes, right? Of, Of. Of lovers, of the beloved's guiding men deeper into themselves, deeper into who they really are and who we really are as men. And that is sacred. Sons of the Most High. And so we can't just be that overnight. It takes work, it takes action, it takes devotion, you know, and so coming into an experience, it's like, okay, I'm surrendering to a certain degree. And they might come in with all kinds of ideas and projections and they're going to feel uncomfortable. It's going to be challenging. It's literally going to take them to their edges. If a man comes in, he'll be at his edge because it's a big brotherhood. And somehow, you know, every gathering that we have, every ceremony that we have, there's always the right blend of men to bring forward the work that we have to do. You know, that's the magic of the work. You bring us together. When two or more are gathered in my name, the magic happens.

And what exactly is the magic? What do you mean? Because magic is like an esoteric term, but. You mean, Remy, real world magic.

Yeah. And it's different for every man. It's different for every man. They might not get what they thought they were coming for or what they wanted, but if a man comes in with an open mind, he'll experience what he needs. And that's another step towards having an open heart. That's another step deeper into embodying who they really are.

As a man, what's an experience that you've witnessed and facilitated where you knew without any shadow of doubt that a man's life would absolutely never be the same again. What's the first thing that comes?

I believe almost everyone. But a specific brother that I've been just in communication with recently, he comes to my awareness. I was holding space for him. We were in Oregon, outside of Portland, and I had him step into the circle. This is the first process in our group. It's like a four day experience. You know, we had gone through the opening ceremony, men were coming. They had crossed the threshold into non ordinary reality. Now we are in the container, right? And we were broken up into teams and he was on my team and I had worked with him before, but not in a deep way. You know, we knew each other. And I called him into the center, I was guided to call him into the center. And I just stood before him. I just stood before him and I pray before I facilitate before I lead. And I just prayed to God, God, love my brother through me. I'm an open door for your love to flow and however way it wants to flow. And so I just emptied myself, cleared myself and just sat there looking at him and focusing on my heart, just loving him. And I felt this love flowing through me to him. And I was just loving him. There were no words spoken. I was just standing like this, eye to eye. And we had a circle of men around us that were just watching. And it was just, it was just, you know, when you're in silence, it can feel like a lot longer. But for me, I was just in the present moment. But I was like these men on the outside because I'm also holding spatial awareness of the container. I'm like, these men are probably thinking that nothing's happening. I was like, you know, and then it came to a point where this love was just so great. I was just looking at him in his eyes and he just broke down and wept. He just started weeping. He just started weeping. And his tears were pouring and he was, it was the sobbing, the deep wails of like, oh, he's broken open. Love had softened the walls around his heart, God's love. And it gave him. We just gave him space to cry, gave him space to cry. And after, you know, after some moments I came and held him, embraced him, and he just kept on crying. And after what felt like several minutes, what was several minutes of crying, he came to a point where he was able to form some words. And we stepped back from each other and he was still crying. He said, I've never been seen like that. And so I knew in that moment God was seeing through my Eyes and seeing him as who he really is. And the love was flowing through my heart. And he was immersed in more of who he is. Let's say he experienced the isness. He had his direct experience of being seen, of having that moment. And so from that point on, like, I remember, like, you know, he shifted. He was like, I'm all in. Because he had always had this ambivalence. He had been to some of our other experiences. I sensed some ambivalence in him. He was like, I'm in. This is. This is the real deal. And he had moved. He ended up moving his family to, like, the east and going on this whole pilgrimage. Pilgrimage. He had a young son, like, four years old, similar age. As Cairo went on his hero's journey, went deeper into his healing path and finding one, seeking community, because he knew that that was crucial. And he ended up coming back to Oregon. And so I just recently had a communication with him. Like, two days ago, I was at the gym, and I received a voice note from him, just, like, an update. And he was saying about how, like, he hasn't. Because I called him into leadership. I was like, hey, you know, when you're ready, stepped into leadership, you got this. And he worked, like, as a professional and really cool things like event planning, worked for, like, Rob Zombie, like, doing really cool stuff. And I was like, you can apply your talents here. You can grow here. You have a space here to evolve into who you're here to be. And he was just reaching out, saying, like, he felt unworthy, just, like, looking at all the other leaders and, like, just feeling like, this imposter syndrome. And so he had to really reconcile that within himself. And he said he realizes now as we've continued to grow, because I think there's people that have watched us from the sidelines that are like, okay, this is full of shit. It's gonna. At some point, they're just gonna crash or whatever.

Yeah.

But it just keeps on expanding and it keeps on deepening, and more and more men from all walks of life are coming in. And so it's like the gravitational pull of God calling men into who we really are. And, like, that can't be stopped. It can't be stopped because it's God's will and we are blessed, you know? And so I genuinely believe that this is God's work. And I believe that we're all doing it in our own ways. You're doing it. I see God's work happening all day long with your podcasts in the way that you bring forward new knowledge to help people take that next step on their path. And all of our friends in this community shout out to all the Austin community holding it down, and all those around the world right now who are being those anchors of the NOW paradigm, being the anchors of the golden age and God's vision for what this earth is going to be.

When I feel you now, and especially when I see the vacuum that's been created by modernity, by technology, and now AI on the rise and really the dumbing down narrative of dad, like the Homer Simpsons.

Yeah.

And I.

Social engineering.

I reflect on a podcast we did with John Vroman and then on stage with John Vroman at Front Row Dads Live. And just talking about this concept of the narrative of fatherhood and the narrative of leadership right now is completely backwards.

Yeah.

And men are portrayed as like, you need to, like, provide. Suck it up. Don't show emotion. Show up in the best way you can, but don't show any weakness, AKA vulnerability. It's just an absolute crock of shit. It's not. That's not real for me at all.

Yeah.

But I wonder with the vacuum that I'm talking about.

So for me, it comes back to the why. It comes back to the correct ontological orientation to life and what this is. And we need that. Like, that's the foundation. And so that's why in these times, it's so crucial to find our path into an open heart and an open mind. An open mind that will lead to an open heart. Because if we have a closed mind, then we definitely have a closed heart. And a closed mind won't lead to an open heart. So the first step as men, I believe, is having an open mind is getting out of the know it all. Like the ego that thinks it knows it all. It's like, I know it all. I'm the fucking shit. Like that. Just like I was there, I was in that unconscious place thinking I was on top of the world at times, thinking that I was the end all, be all. And I was deep in delusion. I was deep in separation.

You're only the shit if you know. You don't know everything. That's when you're the shit.

Yeah.

Completely. Completely. And you know, when you. When you're the shit, you don't even. There's no need to proclaim.

Yeah. You don't need to talk about it. Yeah.

So, you know, coming to that point where we can open our mind to, like, that there's more. There's more out there that I Don't know. There's more out there that I need to know. And that can. Then we can be guided in different ways. We can listen. Right. In different ways. And so if someone who loves us plants a seed and says, hey, maybe check out a therapist and down to the jungles and do some ayah, whatever it might be, whatever your approach, deeper into who you. Who you are and what we are, that's the right one. You know, until you can come to a point of making conscious decisions. Right. Intentional decisions, to bring you deeper into your authentic expression in life, to bring you deeper into who you're here to be as a man on this earth and what you hold as sacred, what you hold as true. You know, we're not coming at men from a dogmatic place. It's very open, very accepting, but it's also experiential. It's what we are, and it's the comp. It's the growing and the coming together of what we are that creates the alchemical container, the transformational potential that men will experience. You know, so it starts with an open mind. The next step is an open heart to, like, really clear the trauma out of our body, out of our nervous system. Right? To really look at the physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, financial. In all areas of life, where we are lacking, where we are in scarcity, where we are disconnected, where we are numb, where we are running and hiding, whatever it might look like. The coping mechanisms that we've been able to employ to, like, just exist, those gotta go. Those gotta go because they prevent us from facing and reckoning with the pain that has been handed down to us cross generationally. That is our karmic burden, because we are born into the exact circumstances in life that can set our soul up to grow and evolve as it needs to. And we got to let go of that victim perspective of, like, woe is me. This isn't fair. No. Once we know it is perfectly and exactly fair, it is actually more than fair. It is all loving. And that's a hard pill for those to swallow who are outside, who are separate, who are in their heads. But that's the truth, no matter the burden.

Dude, one of the reasons I love what we're doing, which is podcasting, but really what it is is it's sharing of consciousness.

Yeah.

Sharing of gifts.

Yeah.

That's what makes the world a better place. Because in the question I ask you, I received something back that I never thought of before. And that's why. That's why a good podcast sticks to your soul. That's why a good podcast, you talk about it to other people, which is this one. And so there's a part in my question where you reflected back to the answ, but it was because of what you said that make me. That made me think and feel something new. Not exactly what you said. You talked about all the ways that we take an inventory and ownership and. And to not necessarily live from our head, but be in our hearts. Like, that's where the shit goes down. It is. And so I. And so in my question, I was listening to you and feeling that actually what it is for me and for all men to be a leader is to be able to be honest about the things that are causing us pain, about the things we don't know and about the things that our heart is longing for.

Yeah.

Like, if we can do those things, then that's a leader. Oh, yeah, that's a real leader. As a man of his family, his business, and everything else. Is there any other thing you'd put in there about what makes a man a true leader? Because people want to be leaders. Some, not all.

Yeah.

But they maybe might not know where to get the ingredients.

Yeah, that's a. That's a big question. Right. Because for every man on their journey, wherever you are, brother, you have exactly what you need to lead. Like, we're born to lead as a man. And depending on the context of our life and our current situation and relationships and where we are, that's going to determine what's being called forth from us. Leadership. Right. That's the capacity to bring it forward. Right. Even oftentimes into unknown territory, of how to make a decision and be decisive, to take that next step that's going to be the most optimal, not only for ourselves, but for everybody. And so for me, that's. Leadership is the capacity to see the big picture and to recognize that we don't live in isolation. And so what are we really living for? And so maybe they don't have the context of a divine creator. Right. And that's okay. That's okay at first, but you have to ask yourself how you truly feel about your fellow human, about the people that love you the most, the people that are showing up for you. And sometimes as men, you know, we're loaded with so much, you know, of the ancestral trauma and outdated belief systems and operating system of, like, Man 1.0. Right. In these times and all those social engineering efforts that go into our head and maybe all the different addictions that just open us. Open us up and make Us porous, you know, to all kinds of influences. And so it is like an, you know, there's that saying, oh, it's a spiritual war. It's an all out war against men and women and God. Like there's only truth in that from like the dualistic perspective, the separation, because God has no opposite, there is no war because God's already won. You know, but going back to it, it's just important that we get really honest. This is honest masculinity. Let's just do that. You know, we have all the work, the alchemical work we gotta do and let's just start with honesty.

Honest masculinity, yeah.

Can we be honest with ourselves and can we be honest with life and others? That's where it starts.

Does it feel different? Does it look different than honest femininity or is it the same?

I guess it's same. Same thing at the core of it is just honesty.

Dude, I love, and I really, I love women. I love being a man. I love it.

Oh yeah.

Maybe in a past life, I don't know, my soul was a woman or.

Yeah, I'm sure we go Chinese.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Who, who knows? But I just, in this lifetime, I love being in this body. I love being a man. My greatest learning curve is the water, the feminine, the. With Kerry, Michelle, with, with even I see it in my son, with, with everything. It's this feminine learning curve that is actually part of our logo now with the wellness and wisdom rebrand. It's like part of who we are. It's like as men or as you said, as honest. Honest masculinity. Where in that is there the essence or the searching for the true. I don't, I don't even want to say understanding because it's like, I don't know if we could ever as men truly, ever completely understand the feminine or completely understand feminine energy. But maybe just the, the, the, the desire for that, the desire to understand is, I would assume, part of honest masculinity completely.

It's holistic. Right. And so being honest with who we are and all the multitudes that comprise us in this present moment, it's. We have to pay homage and honor the fact that we are born of woman, we are born of our mother, period. Period. If you're a man who's alive right now, you got to give thanks for the physical vessel, your mother, woman who bared you, regardless of how difficult your journey was. From conception through the womb into life. It starts with woman, period. And that's Intelligent design, that's divine design. And that's why there's truth that as a whole, women are not only more connected to their emotions and more open minded and hearted in general, they're also more tapped into God, you know, because in general, it's not that we don't have equal capacities, because we do.

Yeah.

But that requires that as men we find our true identity and from that place we can surrender and not control and not be separate. And that's, that's a tall order because. And it's an ongoing process because so many of us were born into households where we had to. We learned that control is safety, you know, or we learned that like we're not safe unless we hold on tight or protect ourselves, you know, because we don't yet have the shield of God. And that faith that lets us know that there's no enemies, that anything comes our way is for us to face. And it's divine. And God's always here with us so we can meet whatever comes. So it's important that men become open enough in mind and then in heart to deepen their relationship to the anima, right? What Jung termed the anima, the feminine nature, our inner feminine, just like women have an inner masculine, the animus, as Jung called it. Because we're the soul. We're not these bodies at the core of it. We are the soul, the energy matter that resides within that goes into body lifetime after lifetime. Right? And so this missing context of reincarnation and understanding that which was shown to me and experienced by me in a very direct way, and I make no claim, but just my own experience.

In what direct way? What do you mean by that?

Like leaving my body, having left my body before having been the soul, that I am outside of my body and experiencing what that feels like, that's my, I guess, my experience of it. And so I'm like, oh, it's true. Like I am the soul, I am not this body and I am while I'm here. And that's the paradox, right? That's a duality. So going back though, it's like the correct orientation around who we really are and what we really are. We're energy beings. Even at the subatomic level, we are energy, period. Right? And so whether you, you know, you see it as a meat suit, you know, your avatar, there's different words for what this is. But we are blessed in the perfect body that we need to carry out what we need to do for our soul in this lifetime. And there is a divine plan. I Believe for everybody. You know, for some it's like, hey, just show up and learn to be a good person. And not, not, not a piece of shit. Right? That's it. It's as simple as that.

You didn't do it. Last life. So this life, that's your one life thing?

Yeah.

That's your essential thing, is just be good.

Yeah, Be good this lifetime. And you can. This is a gauge. And I might, you know, there might be blowback from this. But you can tell by the degree of suffering in your life and the degree of travail and challenge of where you're coming in from, of what you were clearing in this lifetime. You can tell by the degree of suffering and challenge that you're facing, what you're here to clear. You know, and that's just a reality because everything is perfect. Everything's unfolding in the highest perfection. It's divine. And so if you curse God, or if you curse life, then life will continue to curse you. And so it comes down to being humble and saying, okay, this is my responsibility. Somehow, somewhere, this is all happening. And I'm experiencing in this way because of me, it's not God. It's not my mom. It's not my dad. It's not anybody else. It's not society. It's me. And from that place of responsibility and ownership, now we really have power to change. And that's humility, right? Saying like, okay, it's on me. And I don't. I can't do it alone. Because as men, we're used to lone wolfing. We use that saying. And you know, Philip Folsom coined that. He works with wolves, actually. But it's like the lone wolf in nature dies, right? The lone wolf. Like, we admire the lone wolf as an archetype. Oh, the lone wolf, you know, he, like, leaves a pack. Yeah, they're just. No, like Philip Folsom, he says, like, they're out there howling for another pack to take them in because they've been ousted from their pack, from their community, and they're going to die. Because wolves have to hunt in packs. And as men, we have to know how to work together in brotherhood and cooperation and unity, to be able to hunt the big game of culture in these times, to be able to change the narrative and to be able to take back what is trying to be, what is being stripped of us. And that is our masculinity, that is our true identity as sons of the most high living God who are blessed with a responsibility to carry the way forward. For the next generations, you know, and so there's so much delusion and misinformation really, like intentionally being put out there to take men away from our rightful heritage, our true heritage as sons of God, you know, And God has become a bad word because of religion, because of man, because of us.

Yes. You know, but anyone with us can just replace God with whatever word they know is the thing we're talking about.

Yeah. And if you're being triggered by God, that shows that you have work to do around clearing.

That's right.

Because God, these are just words. So it's our responsibility, if we have triggers with anything or anyone, that's on us to clear and heal. That's a clear indication pointing to our responsibility to move some energy and come into alignment with what is there is.

This story as we round out the podcast. I could probably sit here for another two hours and we could jam on this.

We're there, huh?

But I get to let you go because that's duality.

Yeah. And that's precision, the masculine.

But there's this story that I'm sure I know you've heard this, and I know that you probably even have mentioned this as teachings in your programs. And it was. It was actually something that I experienced firsthand being on this podcast called the one you feed. It was with Eric Zimmer.

Oh, the wolf.

And. And it's these parable. It's a parable of. Of the grandfather with his son or his grandson. And he. And the grandfather says, you know, grandson, there's two wolves in this lifetime. There's one of them that's loving, that praises, that does good, that supports others. And there's this other wolf that is jealous and is spiteful and is mean and is in fear.

Yeah.

And the grandson turns to his grandfather and says, well, grandfather, which one? Which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed.

I love that.

And like, that's a full body experience for me right now because. Wow, that is a parable that any child could understand. And the child inside of you, and I am sure all the men that go to your events and the women with us here that have sticked the. Stuck with this conversation like, yeah, that parable is exactly. If you just wanted to get one thing from our podcast today, get that one thing. Yeah. And I'm curious first. How does that land for you? What does that mean to you, the two wolves? And then I'll ask you one more question before we say goodbye.

Yeah. For me, that's God and ego. Or we might Term it love and fear or unity and separation. It's like, which path are we going to take? Are we going to choose to serve the true master, which is the source of all existence, source of our life? Or are we going to choose to serve the phantom that is our ego, that is our separate self? That is who we've come to believe ourselves to be. Right. That is separate from the truth of what is.

There was an intentional pause there because the. The truth of what is can. Can be masqueraded as something. It's not like the true definition of communism or mass confusion, mass psychosis is when you front truth, but it's really a lie and vice versa. So it really boils down to so many things that you've talked about today. The essence of what we're talking about is find your own truth. You know, find. Find what's true for you. Become a heretic.

Yeah.

My mentor, Paul Shack. Become a here that. Get into the work yourself. Do it yourself. So, so for you, the self, how do you live your life? Well, you know, I've asked that question like almost 600 times now to people.

Yeah.

What is wellness to Albert? How do you live a life that is truly.

Well, it begins with inviting God into my physical, emotional, mental, spiritual soul. Being daily, daily, and sitting in silence on the more important decisions that might fork our path in a big way. And really leading with the example to the best of my ability that was demonstrated by God when he walked this earth in different bodies. Issue of the Christ, Lao Tzu, you know, these different legendary leaders and figures, these are emanations and individualizations of God coming to man to help us remember, this is who we're really. This is who we really are. And so inviting God's guidance and humbling myself to God every single day and staying in devotion, and I think as men sometimes that's like, definitely something that we resist is like surrender and we cling to our separation. And so it's like literally just coming within and. And choosing to open our hearts and ask for God to come in, inviting God again and again, again and again until we feel it. And it might take one time or a thousand times, and however many times it's on us to ask and to continue to invite and to do the work that will allow that invitation to expand and grow into a. A beautiful soul that we're here to really be. So, yeah, brother, appreciate that question.

I accept. I accept the invitation. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Anytime. Something boils this long, I know it's going to be good. And that's exactly what happened with you and I. So dude, really appreciate the work you do in the world and it's been a pleasure to get to know you and hang out with you and I just love podcasting with friends.

Love you brother.

One of my favorite conversations. Love you too dude. Thank you for being here. Tell Albert and I see you again. We're wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you next week.

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