This Supplement Rebuilt My Joints In 60 days...

I was 45 years old. My knees sounded like crinkled up newspaper walking up and down a flight of stairs.

Yeah.

After you're in your, like, early mid-20s, you lose 1 to 2% of the collagen in your body every year. When I turn 55, I'm at half. No way, man. How do I fight that? Shawn Lake is a former professional snowboarder.

And the founder of Bubs Naturals. So research shows that when you take the hydrolyzed collagen, it actually creates a cue in the body that produces a signal to produce more of the collagen.

Helping your body remember, oh, yeah, this is that protein, and we don't have a lot of it. And I can make this stuff.

If somebody were to just do one thing from a supplementation standpoint, would it be the collagen or would it be something else?

I'm choosing collagen all day long, every single day, period. Collagen has changed my life.

What is the thing about the supplement industry that most companies are lying about? So, Sean, the supplement industry is the wild, wild west, and many supplement companies claim that their stuff does everything. But what is the thing about the supplement industry that most companies are lying about?

I'm gonna go with integrity. I think most companies want to believe what they're selling, and they want to believe that they've got the cure all for any given thing. But they're in such a rush to, like, get that product out there. That's when integrity gets compromised. And so they cut corners. They need to make a good profit margin. They found this one ingredient cheaper, and maybe it was third party tested, maybe it wasn't. And all of a sudden you've got a recipe for disaster in an industry that is largely unregulated or self regulated, which is unregulated. And the most reputable brands, the brands that truly care, and there's a. There's a fair amount of them out there. They will independently, on their own third party test everything that they do for the integrity of their ingredients and for the label claims that they want to make, for the things that they want done and the problems that they want to solve. They're the best ones. But that's less than 10% of the brands that are out there.

Less than 10%. Geez. Why is that? It's just because the FDA doesn't step in. Or do they step in when people are dying and getting hurt?

Well, do you believe in what you sell? If the answer is yes, are you willing to third party test it? Are you Willing to, with the chance of failure, put yourself out there, that a third party might just look at you and say, sorry, this is a fail. And then all of a sudden, all that integrity is just completely dissolved. Well, it's just easier. You don't have to test. So don't test. It's also really expensive. So now you got to give up some of that precious profit margin in order to do that test, to place those claims on your jar so that you can truly say with authenticity and integrity that your stuff works. So why bother with all that? What a headache. I mean, there's such an easier road, right? This is an unregulated industry. So most brands, they're not even brands, they're just companies. To be clear, I create a separation there in my head of what a real brand is and what a company is. And I want a brand. I want something you can believe in. I want a community. I want to put a product on the shelves that has integrity, that. That is third party validated, and that is going to do its job. It is going to deliver as promised.

I always look at who the founder is, and back in the day, maybe people don't know this. I used to host these panels at ces. It was like this fit Tech summit. And the CEO who was selling like a weight loss device would be 50, 60 pounds overweight backstage. And I'd be like, so why are you doing this? And he said, well, we. We identified a white space and we're going for it. And I'm like, this is just the wrong motivation. But then there's you. We did the sauna, the cold plunge. We trained this morning. Like, you literally are walking your talk. And the talk is this lifestyle recreationalism. It's an homage to where I used to live. Man, I love Encinitas. I miss Encinitas. Like, how much of your soul is baked into the fact that you live there, the fact that you were a SEAL FIT coach, the fact that you're deep in the skateboard and snowboarding industry, like, you're. You're kind of a product, in a way, of the Californication lifestyle. Does that bake itself into bubs?

Hands down. And that lifestyle is built into what we do. And. And it's like it's in my blood. I can't get rid of it. I have to seek adventure. That's a part of who I am. And I. I've been that way since I was a little kid. It's not changing anytime soon. You know, at 53 years old, you'd think by now I've had enough adventures. I'm good now, man. Like, I'm scheming for the next great thing and I can't wait for it. And that's, that's the energy of life. Like you want. We're here to use these bodies, and we're here to use our minds, and we're here to create an impact, but also to absorb everything that there is to be done. And for me, it's an ocean, it's the mountains, it's being outdoors, it's having a body that can go and do those things. If I want to go trail run, if I want to mountain bike, if I want to surf, I want to snowboard as much as humanly possible at the highest level that I can. I got to take care of myself in order to do it. So. It's funny, you said something interesting about the white space. Yeah, yeah. I found a great white space. It's called aging. And I found that there was a great opportunity to age better. And it just so happens to include a lot of nutrition products that can help me stay sharp and keep my edge and, well, you know, die young as late as possible.

Yeah.

So let's go.

Yeah. The thing about longevity, that whole space that just irritates me at times is you have people that are on the forefront, you know, the bleeding edge of longevity. But there's no, like social media of them playing with their kids or running or doing anything. It's like they're wearing a suit, they're a doctor, they're speaking about longevity. So from an academic standpoint, it's cool. Like, I respect that.

Yeah.

But when I really feel into what longevity is, it is being able to be as active as possible until the day you die. It's like Jack lalanne. Right. Obviously, like none of us are Jack lalanne. But he would shackle his hands in San Francisco, and on his 70th birthday, he towed 70 boats. Like, I think his telomeres. I remember Rob Wolf was talking about this when they did the inspection on his telomeres. It's like he went as hard as he could, and then right when it was time for him to leave, he had no gasoline left, cuz he burned it all up. He was active. He was literally dying as young, as late as possible, and he lived it. Do you feel like inspiration from people in your space? Like a Jack Lalanne? And what kind of a Persona do you feel like you're. You are for longevity? It's a different vibe.

It's. It's It's a great perspective. Like, the Jackal Lane thing to me was always as a kid, he was this ancient human. Right. Like, when you're a kid, someone who's 10 years older than you is, like, totally unrelatable, and your parents are totally unrelatable.

Right.

Like, you know, from an age standpoint.

Yeah.

And so that adventure mind and that. That. That part of me that always wanted to run around and, like, jump off of, you know, jump into the bushes here and go swim over there and, like, just be a crazy kid. In my teenage years, I fell into skateboarding and snowboarding and, like, all these adventure sports that are just, like, epic. Like, all the action sports were just, like. They were my jam. Like, if it's sideways, I want in on it. And I never lost that mentality. And I think. I don't think I know in my friends and peer groups and around me, a lot of folks, either one never really had it or they lost it young. And when I say they never really had it, I mean they never fostered it. I think everyone has it baked in them.

When you say it, what do you mean, the zest for life or. What are you talking about? When you say it?

I call it adventure.

Adventure.

But I will say that. That zest for life, like, that opportunity to be a wild kid and, like, to smell the roses, if you will, to, like, pause and take in those things that are around you, to have the energy to do something spontaneous, to just not be a cog in the machine. And you can still play your role in the machine, but, like, man, enjoy this thing we have called life. Like, that's what we're here for. So somewhere along the way, I wasn't a teenager anymore then. I wasn't in my 20s, and then I wasn't in my 30s, and all of a sudden in my 40s. That was the first time I really noticed my body physically changing. And, you know, after all the years of high impact from snowboarding and surfing and then crossfit and Seal Fit, the miles were starting to stack up, but the mind didn't change. And then I had a problem to solve, which was, well, how do I still keep having these adventures and having fun? Then enter kids into the equation. Okay, now I'm an adult. I have children. Well, I still want to be the fun dad to go chase around my kids. Well, then I need my body to be able to perform, to pick up my kids and chase them around and bring that energy into their lives. And I look around again at folks in my Age group. And granted, I am the old dad, but I see some of them and it's like, oh, you're. You're starting to lose it. You're starting to slip. And some of these dads are, you know, 10, 15 years younger than I am. And I don't want to slip. And that's my goal is, like, don't slip, man. I want to go out like Jack lalanne. I want to go out with an empty gas tank knowing that I burned everything to the ground that I could for life. And, you know, just that energy. And I want to. I want to have those experiences right to the very end. I want to wake up in the morning, you know, in Texas with you, hit a gym session, have a blast, get started with the day, and know that when I. My head hits a pillow tonight, I've done everything I needed to do or wanted to do or could do. And if I left something off, man, it's getting on the list for tomorrow.

There's an author, I don't know if you've heard of him, it's Castaneda. And he has this passage that he says, the journey and the beauty of life is to live and never let the old man in. And I love that because the old man is really a mindset. Like, you're in your 50s, and like you said, a lot of guys that maybe are in your neighborhood or in social groups, they've let the old man in maybe a decade earlier, which is. Which is really sad, you know, And I have compassion for that because, you know, breaking a bone or tearing a ligament, like, injuries go down, especially in the CrossFit Seal fit world. Especially in the CrossFit world. And so I think what happens is somebody will get really deeply sidelined, and then they'll start to just kind of have attrition from being, being alive and feeling zest. The smart supplements that come in are so powerful because they just accelerate healing. Like, they can take somebody from, like, what would be six to 12 months of healing and bust it out in, like, three months or less. Do you find this to be the case? And how has that played out for you with, like, major injuries and learning how to stack these supplements so you don't have to be old?

Well, I'm going to break this into two parts because I think this is super important. So injuries happen. There's no escaping injury. If you bubble wrap your life, you've already given up the fight, because in order to live that full life, you're going to get bumps, bruises, tears. Like you're going to get banged up along the way. And yes, it sucks, but that's also, that's part of the price you have to pay. I've accepted that price. So, you know, I've had two meniscus repairs and I got my first meniscus repair when I turned 50. I got the second one when I was 53. So like, you know, six months ago I had a meniscus repair. And my state of healing for both of them was how quickly can I get back to doing all the things I want to do? Not I'm going to go into injury prevention mode and I'm going to live a safer life and I'm going to take my foot off the gas. It was quite the opposite. How intensely can I approach my rehab, my PT clinic? We're just like, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, what? I gotta go. They're like, trust us, trust the process, slow down a little bit. And I did, but it was because I had my eye on the longer prize, which was get back on a snowboard, get back in the weight room, get back doing all the things you want to do, and then coach your kids sports, be in their lives, chase my wife around, have a blast. And to do that, well, that was part one, right? It's the mindset of how you're approaching the recovery from those things. And that is to get back to a full life, not a tempered life that's going to be bubble wrapped, but like, get back to doing all the things. Then how can I use science and nature to best complement that goal? That's where the nutrition comes in for me, is what am I feeding myself? What am I feeding myself? From a nutrition standpoint that is going to aid not just in my recovery, but in that longevity, in that, that good ability for me to live this full life till the very, very end. Like right to the end. It's funny because the crap I got away with in my 20s and 30s, processed foods, no supplementation, like just kind of the, the junk of like, yeah, I'll eat this, I'll eat that, I'll eat anything. I'm a kitchen sink. My mom used to call me the garbage disposal because she literally put any food in front of me and I just eat it. And the realization that some of those choices weren't great, it's like, was an eye opener. I was like, oh, you mean Mac and cheese isn't like a natural food derived from the earth? Well, okay. I thought that powdered cheese was totally good. So you kind of like, you, you make these realizations and you go, okay, well, how do I act on that? What's the right nutrition I should put in my body? And then if I can't get everything from that nutrition, where do I supplement for it? Right? So, like, creatine is a great example of that for, you know, not just muscle growth, but cognitive function. And you realize that, hey, your body can produce creatine, but it's not going to do it on its own if you don't help feed it. So, like, the supplementation of creatine will help you, like, kick that production into gear. So, okay, I'm going to need this. Collagen is obviously my personal favorite. Like, I think collagen is the glue that holds us together, and it truly is. Collagen is the most abundant protein in the human body. But after you're in your early mid-20s, you lose 1 to 2% of the collagen in your body every year. So if you do the math on that and you go, okay, so from 25 to 35, you've lost up to 20% of the collagen in your body. Then throw yourself in your 40s. Now throw yourself in your 50s, and you do the math and you're like, I'm going to be down almost 50% of my collagen protein, this most abundant protein in my. My body. When I turn 55, I'm at half. No way, man. How do I fight that? Oh, if I just exogenously take collagen peptides, it will have my body endogenously producing collagen peptides. And that collagen protein in my body is going to help with my hair, skin, and nails. Cool. I want to look good. But more importantly for me, the muscle recovery, the joint health, the intestinal health. Again, what it does for the gut health, bone density. Check, check, check. You're checking all these boxes. So intentionally looking at your nutrition is key. I don't care what age you are, start looking now. I wish I knew this stuff in my 20s. I wish I had learned about where collagen was in my body in my 20s. Well, I didn't. I learned about it in my 40s. So better late than never.

Where were you when you first got the education or the download? Because I want to talk about Glenn and Bubs and the origin of that. It's so special. It deserves so much respect. So when did that first come online where you were like, collagen, huh?

Oh, this was a full shout out to my wife, Heather. So my wife is a journalist, so she's a news personality. She's on morning news in San Diego. And she's always like, finger on the pulse of the latest and greatest. So she comes home from work one day and at this point we had. Our son was born. So he was like about maybe a year old, a little bit less than a year old. And she comes home and she just brings a jar of collagen and puts it on the counter. And she says, oh, I did this new segment, I heard about this new supplement, it's called Collagen. And she's like, this woman was talking about how great it is for joints. Now my wife's in tune with me. So she knew at that point I was 45 years old. My knees sounded like crinkled up newspaper walking up and down a flight of stairs.

Yeah.

And. And dude, I was getting stiff. Like I was still crossfitting, still running, surfing, but I was doing all those things and it was slowing down. My body didn't feel as good. So it took a little longer to get warmed up in the morning. There were just these aches and pains and I just didn't feel as good as I had. So she put it in front of me and she said, listen, you're not getting any younger and I need to preserve you in your old age, so take this. And we had a laugh about it. And I put a scoop in my coffee. She told me it was heat tolerant. Just throw in your coffee. And I was like, well, I'll just burn through. I said, I don't believe this is going to work. I'm a total supplement skeptic. Everything I ever learned about supplements and nutrition, I'd really learned from Glenn when he was alive. And so this was brand new to me. But let's go try it. Two weeks into it, my fingernails were growing like I was the Wolverine. Quite literally. Like my fingernails, like, where are the clippers? And as a guy, you notice that stuff. I'm like, oh, I have to clip my fingernails. Two weeks later, I needed a haircut. I just gotten a haircut. So I had these two data points. Within one month of just putting a scoop of this stuff in my coffee that were like, hey, there's something to this.

Yeah.

At the two month mark for me, it was about eight weeks in, I woke up. I'll never forget this. I got out of bed. We were had to fly from San Diego to Boston. So it was like, get up early, get the kids stuff. And you know what it's like traveling with kids.

Oh, yeah, you got all the things. Production.

It is a major production.

Yeah.

And I'm bouncing all around. I get all the stuff, I get in the car, we get to the airport, we get on the airplane, and it's, you know, it's a five and a half hour flight from San Diego to Boston. And you're just cramped up in this little seat, and then you're keeping Sebastian, my son, entertained, and you get off the plane, and we're getting off the plane, and now we're like, we're three quarters of the way through the day, and I'm like, oh, my God. Nothing hurts. Normally, Josh, at that point, getting off an airplane after all of that stuff would be like this ordeal to, like, get the body moving and get your blood flowing. And I just popped up, grabbed the bags, grabbed the kid, boom, off the plane. And I'm like, this feels great. Well, why? And I tell my wife, like, this feels awesome. She's like, that's nice, dear. I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like, I should be in so much discomfort right now. And it just clicked in my head. I'm like, the only thing I have changed in my entire diet is adding collagen. So what the heck is in this stuff and why is it doing this for me? A couple more weeks goes by, I feel better and better and better. A couple more months goes by, I feel better and better and better. So I just did a deep dive. I was like, this is the one. This is my thing. And. But it's not just for me. This is literally all you have to do is age. Okay, well, that pretty much covers all of us.

Yeah.

And this one single ingredient powder, this ground up cowhide, has this perfect amount of amino acids in just the right ratios that helps your connective tissue, your hair, your skin, your nails. There is 4 grams of glycine per serving. Glycine is an essential amino acid that helps you produce synovial fluid. It also helps with rest and recovery. Four grams per serving. That's a lot. And guess what? It does its job. So why do my knees not hurt? I got a bunch of glycine floating around in there. Collagen's phenomenal for joint health. Oh, I get it. So I had to learn all this stuff early on that just made me more of a believer. But I already believed. I just didn't know why it worked or how it worked. Like, you know, I was. I wanted to unlock that.

I love in the beginning how you were like, this shit doesn't work.

Oh, I was such a skeptic. I love that.

That's literally like the, you know, truth moves through three stages. Initially it's opposed, then it's partially adopted and then it's accepted as total truth. I mean the science could not be more clear. I was sharing with you in a text message. It's on the screen right now, y'.

All.

A 2023 study, the school of Sport and Exercise Sciences and John Moore's University in Liverpool. So they did this test where they fed a control group just like a powder that had no collagen in it at all and then they gave 30 grams of collagen to the athletes. And these are middle aged people by the way. This is not like 20 year olds. And they found that there was a 6.8 millimeter squared, a substantial change in the tendon cross sectional area compared to the placebo which was 1.2, 1.2 to 6.8. Just by putting in the cow power. Like this is not anecdotal, this is like scientific. So I could see how people would be like, I take the collagen, maybe I don't feel something right away. But look at the research. And this is just one of like thousands of PubMed studies and the science is super clear. But I loved your story because it's like if you sit on an airplane for that long and you're used to creaking and banging and being rusty and you get up, well, the science is just proving anecdotally what you feel. The thing that, and I wonder how you feel about this. So many supplements out there, nobody wants to invest in them if they don't get like an immediate like same day response.

Oh yeah.

But this is a smarter choice because you may not feel it in the first day, but after two weeks or 30 days, definitely 30 days, 60 days, if the boat's not making as much noise, then it's going to feel better. There's less creaking. Right? So science is actually stacking up to what you're saying, hands down.

So I didn't have, there wasn't as much science in 2017 when I, you know, when I discovered college and when I was on that voyage of discovery and like that adoption to. And having it truly work. That for me, you know, that was kind of backfilled in. So I just knew it worked because my, I knew my body. You know, like we, we live a fairly healthy lifestyle. We observe a great Mediterranean diet. We're not putting a ton of processed foods in our lives and we've been doing this for a long, long time. So the addition of something into the diet and then observing fingernails, hairs, joints, the recovery and like ability to jump back up and get after it at the gym, like that there was something to that. I just didn't know what it was and I wanted to learn. And the more I learned about it, the more I just validated that, hey, this stuff works. It's like electrolytes. Like when you don't use electrolytes and you're, you know, out running around, you get dehydrated in the moment, you have foggy brain, you're a little bit loopy. You add a little bit of salt into some water with a little bit of sugar. Like, just follow the very basics of an oral rehydration solution. Dude, you're back and you're clicking and like, it's an amazing, an amazing transformation. You can't not feel that in your body. And the right supplementation, you know, for, for different things will do that. Some of them are instantaneous. Like you take an electrolyte, a really quality electrolyte under high stress, you know, big sweat environment, you're going to feel those benefits. Caffeine, like, obviously, yeah, take that. There's some things you can use that you're going to feel like, oh, it works. I can tell a pre workout before you go to the gym. Collagen is different. Collagen is the long game. This is something you take every single day. And you reap these benefits over months and months and months.

The part that is so interesting to me is like taking it exogenously to produce it endogenously. So research shows that when you take the creatine and when you take the. Even the creamer, the halo creamer that you have and the MCT and all these things, but specifically the hydrolyzed collagen, it actually creates a cue in the body that produces a signal to produce more of the collagen. So, yeah, you're taking it, but then at the same time you're giving your body this intrinsic signal to produce more of it itself. And I think this is the part that people don't know. I wonder if you can go into that a little bit. It's not just that you're taking it, but when you take it, it creates a signal inside of yourself for your body to create more of it. Yeah, this is the part that's so cool.

I actually didn't know that originally. That was like later in the learning of.

This is the most dorky, cool thing I've ever seen.

But it is like you're literally. It's like you're not tricking your body into producing it, but you're helping your body remember. Oh, yeah, this is that protein and we don't have a lot of it. And oh, yeah, like, I can make this stuff. It's like, it's a reminder. It's a reminder cue every day. But our bodies are magical things. But, you know, like, hey, the aging process will slow down some of those processes. So, yeah, we were naturally producing collagen in our teenage years into our early 20s. And then, you know, biology shifted and you don't do it as much. Well, cool. We have this neat, really natural hack to put into your diet to keep that process going. And it works. That's where all the medical studies come in.

Where do you get it from? Because, like, there's so many companies out there that their cows are eating like pesticide, corn and all this crap. I remember when I met you and your old co founder, I think it was like four or five years ago at a trade show or something. I forgot. Maybe it was through George Bryant.

Actually, it was through George Bryant.

It was through George.

We got. We connected through George.

Shout out to George. And I remember the first question I asked you. I was like, so what are the cows eating? Where are the cows? Can you talk about that?

Yeah, man. So. So we've been doing this for seven years and to kind of, kind of back up a little bit. Like, I had all these standards that I wanted to achieve based on what I was feeling in performance. But I also wanted to make it. I wanted to make it clear that if this isn't an adaptable habit, people won't buy it. Give you a case in point. Cod liver oil is incredibly good for you. Right?

It's so gross.

It is so gross. That's your first thought.

Even the pills you take, you burp them up later.

Yeah. The worst. I'm telling you, it's good for you. And your response is, it's gross.

Yeah.

There is so much gross collagen out there. Because what we're talking about is ground up cowhide, a little bit of cartilage, a little bit of joint, and a bunch of cowhide. And that's nasty. And that smells horrible and it clumps up and it doesn't sound like something you want to put into a beverage or a smoothie or cook with or throw down your throat. It sounds disgusting. So when I knew it worked, right, I had this baseline, which is, this has changed my life. It's a massive statement to make. It changed my life. How do I share this with the world? Okay, well, I need to share this with the world. I'm compelled to do that. And we'll talk about the why and how the company got started. But to do it right, I had to solve flavor, I had to solve solubility, and I had to make sure that we had the best collagen on the planet. That was it. Like I wasn't going to do it otherwise. It had to meet those standards. So did I want cows from South Korea that were raised on GMO corn and different feeds with pesticides in the soil? Didn't really make sense. Like, just from my gut I was like, that doesn't feel right.

Yeah.

Grass fed pasture raised, as a statement, it's somewhat generic, but when you go to different parts of the world, that is agrarian living, like that's, that's agrarian farming. Yeah, that's just normal. That's how the cows live. If there's a great rain season and there's lots of grass, they eat really well. If there's not, the cattle don't grow as big and you know, they're scrawny. But it's natural. And guess what? In Uruguay, southern Brazil, where we source all of our product, in that space, there's no pesticides, there's no industry for pesticides. No one can afford the pesticides.

Oh good.

You're literally just out in grass, in nature. So we did a pretty exhaustive search of where we want to be and Brazil came up right away like Brazilian grass fed cattle. And that's a huge part of the leather industry. All your steaks and meats. Like there's a ton of cattle. Like that's one of Brazil's biggest exports. But there's also the Amazon rainforest up there. So now I'm complicating my standards because I don't want to be anywhere near the Amazon rainforest. I don't want to be a part of any kind of global deforestation and any unbalancing in our planet. I don't need Leonardo DiCaprio coming after me getting mad. So.

Or who's that 13 year old that's all about climate change? Greta. Greta.

Oh yeah, Greta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't need the Swedes coming at me all mad.

Yeah.

So I had that standard. So here I am. Like, I need the best flavor, I need the best solubility, I need the best, the absolute best in terms of amino acid performance. Oh, also I needed to be geographically sourced in a conflict Free area. And I want it grass fed and pasture raised. Well, those standards kind of feed into each other. A grass fed, pasture raised cattle is going to lead a more natural, stress free life. It is going to, I believe, you know, contribute to the flavor component, the solubility component. And lots of those are done in the processing of the meats. But find the right geographic spot to start with, then you've got a good baseline and then build from there. So it was a pretty exhaustive search. There are a lot of collagen manufacturers from various parts of the world. Like they come out of Turkey and they, a ton of them are in China and a ton of them are in the Korean peninsula. But I found the best of the best to be in South America. And that's in terms of consistency, supply chain traceability, knowing where your stuff comes from. So. And at the end of the day, like most of this product is a byproduct of the, of the leather industry from tanneries.

The craziest part to me is one of my mentors, Paul Check. He talks about the closed organic cycle, which I love. And it's, there's this hierarchy of the food chain, right. Prey and predators. And if you really think about what you're eating when you eat either beef or collagen, you're eating concentrated sunshine that's been eaten through the plants by the animal that you then are absorbing. Do you ever trip out on that? It's so amazing. That's why it's so healthy. That's why it's so good.

That's literally why I love the idea of grass fed. And I'm like, oh my God, like what are they eating? They're eating this thing like the sun.

The sun in the plants and then we eat them. It's like we're eating sunshine in a way.

Yep.

It's the coolest part.

Yeah.

What, what do people tend to get wrong about collagen? Like you've been in the space for 10 plus years now when people first hear about collagen, like what's, what's the confusion? Either on purpose confusion or just confusion because they don't know.

Well, so we live in this age where Instagram and social media and, and you know, TikTok is going to like virtual virally expose you to a new thing or a new trend. And yeah, there's so many. It's going to actually be hard to organize all of this.

But what's like the top one?

Top one to me today is the confusion between colostrum and collagen. Because there's several brands on the colostrum side that are marketing their product as the cure all for collagen. Like, you don't need collagen, just use our product. And the fact is, like, that's total bs. They're, they're completely separate products that do separate things. They actually complement each other quite well. So I hate that antagonistic mindset of advertising and marketing because it confuses the consumer because they're trying to get all the collagen consumers to come over and buy Colostrum, which isn't bad, but it's not an either or. It should be an and.

Yeah, it's a yes.

And yeah, like yes, do collagen and try the colostrum. Like use more parts of the cow. It'll be beneficial. So I hate crap like that because it's disingenuous and it's misleading. And then you've got a handful of nutrition experts that, you know, I'm saying I can air quote the nutrition expert part. Jumping up on a platform because they've got a couple hundred thousand followers and they will just completely debunk collagen without any real look at the science or they're looking at a very select skewed view view of some science.

They're just cherry picking, total cherry pick.

I mean, I could make an argument that collagen is the worst thing in the world just by scrolling Instagram and finding the right followers, you know, follow a hashtag and be like, oh yeah, collagen's total. Okay, well now I'm completely discounting literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of medical studies done at the highest level of integrity, supporting its benefits. So where do you want to go with your belief system? So it's very, it's a very muddy water out there. And, and I find that troublesome. And that's what most people get wrong is believing the latest click on, you know, on a social media platform that, that has them like going down the wrong rabbit hole.

If you were to try to connect the dots in the best way you could about treating your body with care through the smart supplementation like the collagen. There's so many freaking supplements out there. When you look at like the, the lowest hanging fruit for the highest reward, that gives you the physical ability to train, which then gives you energy, then allows you to show up to the people that you love in a better way. See, it's all connected. I'm connecting the dots when I ask you the question, what truly is, if somebody were to just do One thing from a supplementation standpoint, would it be the collagen or would it be something else? I'm putting you on the spot here, truly. What's the lowest hanging fruit from a supplementation standpoint?

All right, so I'm going to actually go back a step. I'm going to go right into your kitchen. Eat whole foods, eat things from nature. And did it grow from the ground? Can you pull it out of the ground and eat it? I don't care how you eat it. You can saute it and you can put butter on it, but just the root source from the ground animals, protein source. Start with those baselines, like a quality protein. You know, I'm a big Mediterranean diet fan, but like eat those balanced diets, but not from processed foods. Just, just avoid that as much as you can. Now, in traveling and in modern society, some of that is unavoidable. But start with as much of that as possible. Whole food based, unprocessed, skip the processed foods. You've got an amazing baseline from there. You should be getting the right amounts of protein from that. So you've got these like, baselines of things you don't have to worry about supplementing with. Then it comes into, what are you trying, like, where are your obstacles? Where, where, where are your, your hurt points? I go to the gym a lot. I don't drink enough water. Okay, electrolytes might, might be that one thing for you, because there's not really a one size fits. All right. However, on the collagen side, if I was to say, to strip down my entire supplementation to one thing like, Sean, you can only do one. You can't have MCT anymore. You get that great mental focus and energy that's out. You, you can't choose that. Sorry, no creatine for you. Nope. You can't have electrolytes or you can only choose one of those things and collagen's on that menu. I'm choosing collagen all day long, every single day, period, full stop. Collagen is the best multivitamin for your body that you could take. You know, that's how I look at it. It is this amazing solution for, yes, hair, skin and nails, but joint health, muscle recovery, bone density, gut health, like all of your connective tissue support is fed by the exogenous intake of collagen peptides, and it fuels that collagen production inside the human body. So if there's only one, that's going to be my one, and that's because I'm over the age of 25, if I'm talking to a 20 year old, probably talking to them more around electrolytes also depends on their goals. Like, you know, if they leave a sedentary lifestyle, I'm not going to talk about supplementation at all. I'm going to want to get them outdoors. Some folks might have a massive amount of brain fog. And I'm going to talk to them about the benefits of lion's mane and cordyceps in the right amounts on the daily to help them with that mental focus, you know, chaga, and these different elements that can help them. But no, man, if I was stuck with like, eat all your foods from nature and you get one supplement, it's going to be collagen and that's it, Man.

I kind of felt like you were going to say that, but I wanted to make sure in order to get 30 grams of actual collagen peptide, you'd have to eat a tremendous amount of product. Right. Like, if you actually tried to get all your collagen from whole food.

Oh, yeah.

No supplementation at all. You'd have to eat what in how much?

So I love. Have you ever heard of Thomas DeLauer?

Yes.

Okay, so Thomas is a buddy of mine. The guy's amazing and he's got quite.

A story of weight loss.

Huge story of weight loss and physical transformation. He's one of those, like, magical humans that can take massive amounts of science and break it down for the layman and makes it super relatable. And I appreciate that as a layman. So he talks about how you can get your best sources of collagen and what it would actually take to do that. So ground beef is an amazing way to get that gelatin collagen in the body. Bone broth is another one. And what you don't realize is how much ground beef you'd have to eat. This is what I'm wondering to get.

A 30 gram wallop.

It's massive. Well, I would say on your daily average, if you're not in a sports performance scenario, like the medical study that you read, that was really built around the joint health benefits, and there are specific use cases to scale up, and you can take 40, 50 grams of collagen a day if you're on just an average day. I take 20 grams a day every day as my baseline. Okay. Sometimes I bump it up, depending on what I'm going through, to like add a little bit more. But for most bodies, 20 grams is plenty. Like, that's kind of like your daily recommended value. That's your, that's your baseline scale up from there. But to get 20 grams or 30 grams from nature, you're eating a lot of ground beef. That's a lot of bone broth. And our lifestyles don't really lead to being able to do that because then.

There'S a digestive cost. There's the thermic effect of food where if you'd have to eat 4 pounds of grass fed beef in a day. Yeah, man, that's going to wreak some havoc on your digestion.

Yep.

So this is where the term smart supplements actually make sense. And we live in a world of modernity, man, where life is on the go and like, things have to happen quick. So to me, supplements are just really a scaffolding.

Yeah.

For what nature provides. We just get it in a really smart, easy way.

Yes. Scaffolding is a great expression for it. Like you're, you're literally providing. Again, we talk about baselines, right. The idea that your body is, has less and less collagen every single year, like less and less and less and less and less. And if that's going to keep happening, which it is, because that's science, man. That's just what is happening biologically in the human body, then what can you do to offset that, to stabilize that baseline? Well, if you're not going to eat four pounds of ground beef and two liters of, you know, bone broth a day because it's unsustainable, well, do that when you can.

Yeah.

But when you can't have this here to, to supplement, that's the whole point of that is like, if you can't get it all from your diet naturally, every single day you supplement to put it in. And look at, man, like, that's just the world we live in. Like if you're eating oxtails every day and sweet breads and like the tip and the tail of the animals, you might be getting that. If you can get the cartilage out of the body, you know, out of the.

This just seems like a lot of work.

It's a ton of work in a modern society that isn't geared for that. There was a time not that long ago when you didn't have boneless, skinless breasts on chicken. You got the skin and it was cracked from the bone and like you had to eat off the bone. And my wife and I were talking about how our kids don't know eating off the bone the way we did. Like, you get a chicken thigh, it's on the grill, it's got the skin all on it, and you eat it and you nibble it down right to the bone and you're getting the little pieces of that marrow and cartilage and joint. You go, ew, it's chewy. Well, there's a lot of good stuff in that. Chewy. But we don't eat that anymore.

So it seems to me like when you add in the one thing I already mentioned this and you were just talking about, like, eating from the bone and returning to nature, which, by the way, all this stuff is made from nature. There's no science. Experiments in bugs, which I love. Which, you know, if we were getting stuff from China and other places, maybe that's not the case. I actually really enjoy that. The majority of the things are all from nature. Everything is from nature in the products. Yes.

Yeah, that's. I mean, the whole idea, naturals, naturals. Is that it comes from nature. Like, I. I do believe in science and supplementation. That's a baseline. Like, we need the medical studies to validate that things work. But when you look at different substances and extracting them and processing them, there is science involved, but it's coming from nature. Collagen is ground up cowhide. It is a throwaway of the tanneries in the leather industry. So when you think of cowhide, that inner fascia tissue is connective tissue. It is this glue holding together well. You don't use it in the tanneries and you don't sell it to people as like part of a steak. It's a throwaway. So now it's being upcycled along with those cartilage pieces treated in an enzyme bath, this scraping inner layer that doesn't get put into your leather shoes or your handbags, and it gets into this rich enzyme bath. And what comes out of it is this amazing sequence of amino acids in this powdered form. That's it, man. It's super simple. It's ground up cowhide. That's why I always call it cow powder.

It's cow powder, but it's also cow power at the same time. Like, how could we possibly know unless science gave us the ability to put in the enzyme bath and to take it in the hydrolyzed form.

Yes.

Science is actually beautiful. And I think science doesn't have to be opposed to nature. I think real science is where you actually are connected to nature. In other words, you can have them both, is what I'm saying. Yeah, it's a big piece.

Look at coconut oil, right? Our number two product is an MCT oil powder. It's two ingredients. It's coconut oil and tapioca starch. And when you put them together in a, just a spray dryer, like it's a tumble dryer, you've got a powder that absorbs the oil. That's it, that's how you get oil and powder. It's like it's a sponge that soaks it up. Well, coconut oil broken down from a coconut longer chain fatty acid into a medium chain triglyceride. Just chop it up into smaller or bioavailable fatty acids that pop through the blood brain barrier. Think mental focus. Your body wants to use those healthy fats for energy. Energy for hours. Like what an amazing value prop. All coming from the coconut. Oh yeah. It's a little bit of science involved. You have to break it into an MCT medium chain triglyceride. Perfect. Do it. Oh, another piece of science. Someone invented a, a spray dryer where oil can get sprayed into tapioca starch and just soaks up together. That's it. So you're not talking about, you know, some from a lab, you know, just unrelatable concept that you're supposed to just trust and ingest. Yeah, These are products that come from nature. Like a lot of our solutions in supplementation come from nature. Creatine monohydrate, you know, like these are things that are naturally occurring in the body. Like, oh, there's plant derived ones. And how do you, like, how do you arrive at those? A little bit of science involved. Yeah. But at the end of the day, you know, electrolytes are simple. Creatine is simple. Like electrolytes I love the most because these are minerals from the earth and it's like, what are the electrolytes that are key? Oh, you got chloride, sodium. Oh, they're bound together in a natural sea salt or a Himalayan salt. Oh wait, you've got potassium and you've got magnesium and oh, they all deliver into the bloodstream a lot more efficiently if you add a little bit of sugar and you know, organic cane sugar is readily available. Perfect. Doesn't take a lot. And that's why like these oral rehydration solutions are so easy to make. Collagen is a simple product to make. Like these aren't hard to come up with yet they help so much and we're, you know, they're all in nature, they're all around us. It's how do we get access to them and put them to work for a better quality of life.

I feel like dorks run the world. And when you're a geek and when you're a dork, you just really love something. I can tell you just love the whole supplement process. But it seems like in that supplement world, like you said at the very beginning of the podcast, it's so unregulated, it can be, quote, self regulated.

Yeah.

What continues to drive you and what are you dorking out on now? Like, what's the next layer? What's the next thing that like you put your science hat on and you go, oh, this is. The propeller starts spinning fast. What is that for you?

So, you know, I'm not an inventor. I didn't invent collagen. I took collagen and wanted to make it better. Flavor, solubility, just the performance elements of it so that it was an adaptable habit. Like if it tastes great or doesn't taste at all, you're going to use it more. So I wanted to break down those barriers that way. The second product, the mct, I drink cream and coffee. I wanted a delicious creamer, but I didn't want the dairy. And. Or if I did want the dairy, I want it through grass fed butter. I wanted it in different ways. Well, I wanted those functional benefits into my coffee. What a cool way of doing it. So I'm not reinventing the wheel. There's plenty of, you know, of MCT oil powders out there. They just taste like crap. So make them taste great. Okay, I can do that. Electrolytes, this is the one we're working on next, which I'm the most excited about. About a year ago, we decided to just completely drop our electrolyte product because it was really, really expensive and the flavor was super polarizing. So the organic coconut flavor that you really like.

Oh yeah, that was so good.

I love that flavor.

I got to taste the one that isn't out yet, y'.

All.

Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. So.

So unfortunately, there weren't enough people that loved the flavor, so it became a little bit polarizing. It was a love hate thing. Well, I've never experienced that with bubs. Mostly it's just love. And that's why we do what we do at the highest level. So we had an opportunity to tear it down and rebuild it from scratch. The cost structure had to change on the product, but I needed to find different sources of these electrolytes. Sodium chloride, magnesium, potassium, and sugar. And I'm a big fan of sugar to drive the sodium into the bloodstream for rapid rehydration. And in Order to do that effectively, I started asking questions about sourcing and I was like, hey guys, I think we can do this. All from America. Like you can get amazing quality sea salt right from the Northeast and the Pacific Northwest. You can get organic cane sugar from Louisiana, it's grown in Hawaii. Like this is a domestic crop. And there's so many rich mineral sources out of the state of Utah. Like all around the Great Salt Lake, there's amazing mineral mines where magnesium and potassium can just get popped out from the earth. I'm like, we can do all of this in all of our flavoring in the United States and then we produce it and make it in the United States. So that one relaunches. So hydrate or dye. Our electrolyte line, 2,000mg electrolytes, all done as an oral rehydration solution. The ORS, that's the world Health Organization standard for rapid rehydration done in the United States, made in the usa. And again, this is what can we do. We can do everything NSF or sports certified. We can third party validate our ingredients, the label claims that we make and the integrity of that product voluntarily so that the consumer sees that logo on every jar, every packaging and they know that, hey, what they say has been third party gut checked. So I get geeked on that. I get geeked on validating everything. I get geeked on the electrolytes. Right behind that we are launching a creatine monohydrate. Little known fact, but something I think should be discussed is ingredient integrity. So there's about 10 creatine manufacturers in the world. Nine of them are based in China, one of them is based in Germany. And then this is for creatine monohydrate. And there's other variations on creatine that are not monohydrate but monohydrate. I found to be the absolute best gold standard and best tested and best validated form of creatine. Well, I'm not going to outsource my creatine manufacturing to a country that has pesticide issues and different, you know, just there's standardization issues, there's some great products that come from China, but with creatine I didn't want to take those chances. I didn't want some chink in the supply chain to have murky water. I want to know where my product is coming from. So we're launching with the world's only German creatine monohydrate. So we get to do that in the, in the late summer. I'M very excited about that. And then we're talking about a few other fun projects. We're launching a vitamin C because vitamin C and collagen go together like peas and carrots. For those that didn't know, you actually need vitamin C as a baseline to help with the absorption of that exogenous intake of collagen. So sometimes you'll see vitamin C in collagen supplements. That actually doesn't work quite as well as taking it externally, because if you take vitamin C and pour hot water over it, like in a cup of coffee, it's gonna denature and you're gonna miss those benefits. So 500 milligrams of vitamin C, which I, I'm literally taking as that accompaniment. We are doing a full, full spectrum proteins coming out. So there's a need to definitely get more of the cow in the human body. So we're looking at doing full spectrum proteins. Like, you know, hey, I need that. My protein intake. If I'm missing that in my diet, where else can you get it from? So we got a couple things up our sleeve that we're pretty excited about this year.

Sounds pretty fun and sciency and geeky.

It is. In the best way, in all the best ways. Like, hey, if I can play around with the best whey protein isolate and make sure that it's not going to affect folks that have dairy allergens and, like, get a little bit of that stomach gurgle.

Cool.

Do it at the absolute highest level. Solve for flavor, solve for performance. Like, those are the areas that I get excited. Like, we're not necessarily reinventing the wheel. I just make sure that we're laying out products that are the absolute best in quality and the best integrity.

Where were you in your life? What were you doing when your wife slammed down the collagen on the table? What were you working at that time?

So it's a great question. I was actually at this amazing moment of inflection. And you could call it the midlife crisis, you could call it the Prince phase of being an adult male. I was literally had gotten done with this amazing, like, long run of consulting, and I was working with Converse shoes for a number of years and I was doing all these great art installations. I had this great little agency and my business partner at that agency had decided that he wanted to go and make a huge swing and, and go in house at a marketing brand. And that effectively ended the agency. We, we both kind of knew it was time. We're like, hey, we've been doing this for a while. We had a great run at it, and we're both like, I think it's time for us to make a make a break. And so I was in that make a break phase and I was doing some hired gun work, which is quick. Like, it's like a quick exchange of values. Like, here, I'm going to run a project for you, you're going to pay me. Everyone's happy, but it's over. And then I'm on to the next one. And there's a lot of hunting in that because you're hunting for the next client, you're hunting for the next opportunity. And I didn't like that. And I knew I didn't like that. So I was at a bit of a crossroads when my wife dropped that jar on the table. It was right in the middle of that hunt. And I'll jump into how Bubs got started. I was at that crossroads. It was the perfect time for me to be open to a new idea. And I didn't know that because I was literally getting ready to like, write my resume to go and grab a marketing job in house at an action sports brand or do something like that. I didn't know where I was going to go. And there was a lot of uncertainty.

Did you already have kids at that time?

I had. My son was just turning one, so there's that.

The pressure is already heating up.

Oh, it was dialed.

Providing for a bigger family.

Yep, yep. So. So here we are after this crazy, eclectic career that I've had, and I'm staring down 45, I've got a one year old, my wife's about to be pregnant, and I'm in kind of an oh, shit moment of like, okay, so what's it gonna be? And during that time, I'm falling in love with collagen because I'm having this transformative experience with it. Yeah, well, you know, my future business partner TJ comes over to my house one day. We're like riffing on some work project, just talking about this, that the other thing, he sees the jar of collagen on the counter. Now, he's got a big Internet marketing background, so he's like, I know what's trending on Amazon. I know how to drop the pixel for your Facebook ad. And a lot of newer ways of the direct to consumer marketplace that I was very much on the back end of. I was just learning that stuff. So he sees it and he asked me a question. Oh, you take that stuff. And I just start raving, Josh, I'M like, I feel so good. This is the best thing ever. Like, you gotta try it. Maybe you're too young, but trust me, you're gonna want it. Collagen has changed my life. And I just go on this big rant about it. And he's like, cool, man. He's like, well, that's a fast trending product on Amazon. Like, start a company. I'm like, huh? We should start a company. And I'm like, well, what would a company look like? My son's crawling around on the floor in the background, right? What? Let's start a company. What would it look like? And we both sat at the table, looked at each other, and at the exact same time, both said, well, if we ever did start a company, we'd have to do something cool for charity. And a light bulb just went off in my head. I'm like, I know the charity. It's got to be my best friend. Glenn's charity, the Glen Dougherty Memorial Foundation. And Glenn's call sign when he was in the Navy as a Navy seal before he was killed was Bub. And this is exactly the kind of product that Glenn would have taken if he were alive. So we'll call the company Bub's Naturals as a tribute to Glenn and his way of life. This epic man, this national hero who stood for self improvement and he was always helping others. So we'll give 10% of all profits to charitable causes in Glenn's name. And, man, it felt right. And we did this in like a five minute power session. Like sitting at the kitchen counter, just sipping coffee.

This is before you looked at a P and L where you're like, 10%.

This was on a napkin. This was like, dude, this feels right. Like, I'm just jotting down ideas. We called Bubs and I called a couple of Glenn's teammates from the seals. And we're all buddies. You know, we'd all kept in touch. And, you know, I called Mikey Ritland, I called Shane Hyatt, and I'm like, guys, what do you think? Like, you think this is a good idea? I called Glenn's mom, called his sister, like, his family. I'm like, guys, like, I have this idea. And they all said the same thing. Glenn would kick your ass if you don't do this. You have to do this. And man, it spoke to me, like, right down here. I didn't even have the logic part filled out. It just spoke to me, you got to do this. And I'm like, I'm taking a Swing. Let's go. Let's take a wild big swing and figure this out. Does the world need another collagen brand? I don't know. Does the world need a brand that wants to give 10% of it away itself, away to charitable causes? I don't know. Let's find out. So, you know, I didn't quit my day job, but very quickly tried to figure out that P. L, which I didn't know anything about, like, had to learn that I had to go into that whole sourcing, you know, that was the next six months of my life was figuring out who makes the best collagen on the planet. How can we make it better? How can I bring this. This idea to life? Who's going to do the brand identification? Who's going to bring this in life? I got to make an LLC or make a company. And it was like this wild journey. How do you turn on your different storefronts and then eventually turn the lights on? So six months later, we had a product in market, and I had this amazing business plan. Amazing business plan was buy one pallet of collagen, which is about a thousand jars, Take all the money from that, and buy two pallets. Take all the money from that, buy four pallets, go from four to eight, eight to 16. And I was like, yeah, by the time we do 16 pallets at a time, you know, 16,000 jars, we'll probably know what we're doing, and then we'll just figure it out along the way. But it was a social experiment, so, yeah, man, it was.

I love that your kid was crawling around on the floor when you were figuring it out now. So, Glenn, for people who don't know, I'd love for you to share this story because it's such a special story. Like, you have a deep, deep connection with him. He's a childhood friend. Yes.

Yeah. So Glen Dougherty and I grew up together in Winchester, Massachusetts. Both middle children, older brothers, younger sisters, all about the same age apart. Like, kind of wild how. Like, very similar family structures were. Both parents divorced, both being raised by our moms. And we met in middle school, but then really became good friends in high school. And we were. We were the adventure seekers. Like, we were the ones that were just a little bit on the black sheep side of things and, you know. Yes. Getting in trouble, but also, like, just really looking forward to those big life adventures. And Glenn was a year older than me, so he took off, went to school. He was going to go become an airline pilot, so he went to embry riddle out in Prescott, Arizona. I took off, went to college in New Mexico at New Mexico State. Both dropped out right away, met back up in Winchester and decided to hatch a plan to be done with college for a while, to go chase the dream of becoming professional athletes. I had fallen in love with snowboarding. Glenn was a really, really good skier. I said, let's go to the mountains, let's go to Snowbird, Utah and go try and become pros. Sound like a great plan? We're 18, 19 years old. Like that's what we should do. We should drop out of college.

Yeah.

Now remember, I grew up in New England where it was indoctrinated in us that you finish high school, you go to college, you get your degree, and you go and join the workforce, force and be a productive member of society. And we were completely going against the grain, chasing adventure. And I'll never forget telling my mom that I was going to go and do that. And she was like, huh? Well, you're wasting your time in college. You're just drinking and partying and like barely graduating, you know, you're, you're getting like a C plus average, so please stop wasting my money, Go do something else. So she had a very pragmatic approach to it, which was I wasn't getting the most out of the college experience, so go do something else. My dad, when he was still alive, gave me the ditch digger speech. And it's just like, ah, gonna go be a professional snowboarder, huh? Well, the world needs ditch diggers too. And I was like, got it, dad. Cool. And I was like, that lit a fire in me. Like that really got me fired up. And I dropped out of college and moved to Snowbird, Utah. I was just turned 19 and Glenn, my older brother guy and I moved out there and rented this little two bedroom apartment and just huddled together and got jobs at Snowbird and started this great adventure. By the time we're turning 24, almost 25, Glenn and I met up. I had this really big talk. My brother did his one year, went back to college. But Glenn and I were all in on this lifestyle and I got really lucky. Like I was in the right place at the right time at the right folks. And I got sponsors, I got endorsements, I was getting like free travel budget. I started making money from snowboarding and I was getting my pictures and magazines, which was really relevant back then. Yeah, there's this thing called magazine magazines. They were very important.

They were. I remember going to the store and buying magazines.

Oh yeah, man, magazines were key.

Yeah.

And if you got your photo in a magazine as a snowboarder, like, boom, you had made it.

Oh, yeah.

And so all those things were happening. And Glenn didn't get those same, like, levels of success from skiing. Skiing was just. The industry was in a different space. This was back in the mid-90s. And so he comes home from. He went on a surf trip to Costa Rica and came back and he's like, hey, man. He's like, you know, if I haven't made it as a pro skier by the time I turn 25, I'm going to join the Navy and become a Navy seal. I'm like, wait, what? You're gonna do what? And that was what he said. He said, that's what I'm gonna do. I said, well, hold on a second. Like, we gotta learn about this. Like, let's rent that movie on VHS of Charlie Sheen as a Navy SEAL to learn about this job you want to do. And we did. And it was really funny. I'm like, that seems really wacky. Okay. And next thing you know, Glenn turns 25 and I drive him down to the Navy recruiter in Sandy, Utah, and he goes in, he signs his paperwork. Next thing I know, a couple months later, he's off to BUDS basic training and then goes into Bud's. And a year later, I'm at his graduation down in Coronado and he's a Navy seal. Boom. Saw what he wanted to do, chased the adventure, made it happen. And I chased my adventure to become a professional snowboarder. And I made it there. And then I went back to college and knocked out my degree. And like, our friendship was just. Was baked from our teenage years into our 20s. And then when I graduated college, I was 30 years old. I'd hung up my snowboarding hat. I'd done everything I needed to do in snowboarding. I was an old man in Snowboarding. Being a 30 year old pro, like, you're basically washed up at that point. And I end up getting recruited by Burton Snowboards to become Shaun White's team manager. And I went through the interview process, got offered the job, and it was like, crazy money, great opportunity. Oh, but you have to move to Encinitas, California, because that Sean lived in Carlsbad and you got to be close to him and the other pros on the Burton team that were all based down there. And I'm like, okay, I guess this is the new adventure I'm going to take, which is to move to San Diego. Well, my best boy, Glenn, my buddy's right down in Coronado, stationed with SEAL Team 3. So it's like getting the band back together. So next thing you know, Glenn and I run around thick as thieves in our 30s. So the next chapter of adventures started to happen and. And he's right there with us. So we're really talking about a brotherhood, you know, more than just like, yeah, he's my friend.

Yeah. It's so rare, I mean, that, that deep for that long in so many different chapters of life.

Yeah.

The momentum that was created there is hugely part of the momentum of why you're doing what you're doing now in so many ways, spiritually, emotionally, practically. It's amazing.

It's amazingly tied together. And I mean, like, it wasn't planned. It's just how life, like, laid its hands for us. Next thing I know, Glenn buys a house in Encinitas. Next thing I know, Glenn gets a divorce. He needs a roommate. I just gotten a divorce. Like, we were following these chapters into our late 30s and that led us to Seal Fit, like, discovering that gym. Glenn was living in Encinitas. We needed a local gym. He just discovered CrossFit in 2008. And, you know, fast forward two years, we're both coaching SEAL Fit. We're roommates now. Like two dudes turning 40. Didn't see that coming. Like, we're both divorced, being like, well, what are we going to do now? And we go on. We, you know, we're, we're going through the whole SEAL Fit thing. That's where I met my wife. She literally interviewed me for a news story. She was interviewing Mark Devine, a news story. I was like, in the background. And we kind of, you know, connected up there. And six months later we're dating. And now we're two kids in and ten and a half years of marriage. But Glenn was right there in that whole chapter of our lives until he wasn't. So Glenn, when he got out of the Navy, would still do deployments, but he was doing it through the Central Intelligence Agency. So Glenn was a GRS operative for CIA. And he would go to various different scary parts of the world, and some not so scary. He'd go to Beirut, then he'd go to Mexico City, then he'd go into Baghdad, he'd be in Iraq, he'd be in Afghanistan. And In September of 2012, he got his orders to go to Tripoli. So Gaddafi had just been ousted from power and there was a lot of. Libya was a very unstable country at the time. It's kind of still is Today. And he was sent over there. And it was right before 911 of 2012. And so on 9 11, Glenn had been over there for just a couple of days. And this little blip on the news comes up right before I'm going to bed on 911 that there's some sort of an attack skirmish thing happening somewhere in Benghazi, Libya. And I'm like, huh. Well, Glenn's in Tripoli, but Benghazi is, like, hours away from there, so he's got to be okay. But I shoot him a little email that night. Hey, man, be safe. There's some stuff going down. And then the next day, around noon, I get a phone call. And a little voice in my head said, answer that call. I didn't recognize the phone number. I would never normally answer that, but answer that call. And so I answered it, and it was like, oh, is this. Mr. Lake? I need you to return to your home in Encinitas immediately. We have some news to share. And I'm like, oh, just like that. Sinking feeling, not in your heart. It was way down low, just in the pits. And I pull up to my house, and the two black SUVs, right? Standing, parked, you know, parked in front of the house, and a bunch of people in black suits, black ties get out. And this bunch of operatives from the CIA there to tell me that Glenn died in Benghazi. And they couldn't tell me much. They just told me that he laid down his life saving a bunch of Americans. And then the news cycle exploded, you know, like, terrorist attack, US Ambassadors killed three other Americans. And, you know, this thing exploded. There was congressional hearings around Benghazi. There was all this stuff, but it was all built around my brother, my best friend. And I was the executor of his estate. I was his listed next of kin on his military paperwork. That's why they showed up at my house to tell me. Normally you tell the mom or the dad. Glenn had done all of his paperwork and all of his architecture and all of his military forms and all of his personal stuff so that I would be that stopgap for him. I would be that one to kind of control whatever would happen should something bad happen. And something bad happened. So now here we are, years later, and I've found a way to channel what was a huge grief cycle into, you know, this. This radical life experience into a brand, not a company brand, and honor the great things that he stood for. And even if folks never realize who Glenn was, if they can have a positive experience through Bubs, I'VE done my job.

You feel like that grief ever goes away, it changes.

There are cycles of grief. I believe that. And I feel like actually now, really for the first time, that that grief is shifting into something that's more appreciative and more inspiring. So it's less about the pain of losing a loved one. Those pain moments still come. I don't. I don't know those ever go away. Yeah, my dad died when I was 22. I still think about him fondly, and I'll. Every once in a while, I'll have a grief moment that's 30 years ago, but it still hits you. And it's important to let that those feels come through you. And, you know, with Glenn, it was, you know, whatever, 12, almost 13 years ago, but it feels like it was yesterday. I mean, this is like car accident stuff where, like, those moments are just ingrained in your head. What I felt immediately was a call to action. There's congressional hearings. There's all of his estate stuff.

There's job house.

I'm living in his house, which then became my house. And, like, that's. That in itself is a little bit surreal. So you're kind of living in these memories, and you launch a brand. It's a tribute to him. So, like, you can't not think about him all the time. But at first it was woven with a little bit of grief, but ultimately became celebratory. It was like these. Like, these moments that I'll still have. Oh, what would Glenn do? Oh, like, what's the right thing to do here? Where's my moral compass on that? What's the right guidance? I call it my North Star. I've got this great North Star. So I think about him now more as an inspiration, and that is empowering. Like, that really helps. It's like, you got a hard thing to do. What would Glenn do? Yeah, he'd do it.

The movie 13 hours, the secret Soldiers of Benghazi is. I'm sure you've seen it or have you not seen it because it brings up too much.

No. So it's funny. I've only watched it once. I went to the premiere with Michael Bay and, you know, some of the cast characters, whatever, to, like, do a private screening of it down in Coronado with a bunch of SEALs and. And military members that had worked with Glenn or knew of Glenn, and it was a pretty surreal experience. And I would say to anyone out there who wants to know a little bit about him and his journey, that's a good watch. Like, it is accurate. Yeah, for what it is.

Did somebody play you in that movie?

Not me. No, no, no. This was only about the 13 hours, only about that chapter. But in how crazy the world was during those years, I got approached by another movie company to make a movie about Glenn. And it was Relativity Pictures, which had done like a bunch of crazy big movies. And it was like the folks that had done the movie, Captain Phillips, I don't know if you remember that movie, and a movie called the Dallas Buyers Club.

Oh, yeah.

And they're all on these. These were like Oscar winning directors and producers. And the producer of Dallas Buyers Club was this woman named Robbie Brenner. And she got a hold of me and I remember driving up to Hollywood and she's like, I want to make a movie about Glenn. I just told her like three hours of Glenn's stories. Just like Glenn Isms. Because you got to understand, he was this larger than life personality. I mean, he brought the energy to the room. Like he was cracking jokes. He would make you smile, he'd make you do a hundred push ups and you'd somehow do it. Because he could evoke all the goods out of you. He could just pull it from you and, and help you level up. He was the life of the party. And they wanted to make a movie about him. About the highs and lows, the transition, what he went through. It was a human story. They didn't want to make a war movie. They wanted to. Wanted to make a human story. And literally, like, I signed a contract with Relativity for the life rights of Glenn to make this movie. And then right around that same time, the 13 hours movie was going to be made with Michael Bay and huge explosions. And there was an article that got written about the two movies that were being made about Benghazi at the exact same time. Like, it's crazy stuff. And they're telling me, like, who's going to play Glenn? And like what, what that's going to look like? And there's a writer assigned to the project. And next thing I know, Relativity Pictures files for bankruptcy. Womp, womp. So it was really crazy because there was congressional hearings, it was in the news cycle all the time. I'm the executor of Glenn's estate. Like, I'm living this world. Like, aside from trying to do a day job and get married and go through these huge life steps, this presence is everywhere, all around me. And it was a lot. Launching the company felt right to do Bubs felt right. It felt like the right tribute. It felt like, you could take the great things that he stood for and that was scalable. I can inspire others with this message. Live a full life. Go live a great life.

I don't know if this applies to you, and we haven't jammed about this before, so answer however you want to answer. But in realms of whether it's deep holotropic breathwork or psychedelic journeying or even float tanks, whatever you want to do, those peak experiences where the neurology can relax and whatever's being felt by the human being can just naturally bubble up. Have you ever had a moment like that, that you've actually connected to him, connected to his spirit and had a conversation with him? In other words, if the veil was super thin in this moment, or have there been any moments where the veil was so thin that you've been able to actually connect with him and speak to him? And if so, what did those conversations sound like?

So, yes and no. I haven't done any of those things. No ayahuasca journeys. Nothing substantial with psilocybin or float tanks. But I will acknowledge the dreams, and they're not common, but they're dreams. So that's the most common ways is I'll have conversations with them in dreams. So you don't remember the exact details, but you remember the ideas. The second thing which is far more applicable in my everyday life are these little moments around Glenn where it's tied to hummingbirds. Strange, but in our backyard. Glenn loved when he got home from deployments to really take great care of the flowers and arrangements in our backyard, like, you know, these different birds of paradise. And we were like hummingbird central and the hummingbird and Glenn became like a connected thing. Like, and there was an idea amongst a lot of our friends that when Glenn died, you know, his spirit went into the presence of these hummingbirds that were in our yard. And it's a little, woo, woo, it's a little out there, but it also just felt right. Like, it felt like, like, hey, I don't need to explain this to myself logically. Like, no, Glenn's in the hummingbirds. Like, and when they were there, he's there. Like he's part of us and he's with us. So now, years later, this is where I feel the answer to this question really comes in. I could be sitting at the kitchen sink, looking out into my yard and just washing the dishes. But deep in thought, what problem am I trying to solve? What thoughts are going through my head? Could be anything. Work related, not work related. A hummingbird Just pops in right at the right time. And I can literally be thinking of Glenn, like, you know, like, I'm really struggling with this one thought. Boom, bird comes in, and it's like, clarity of thought. This is what you should do. This is the path. It's a validation. It's a. It's a visual cue to, like, tap into something in here. And so it's. It's indirect. It's kind of like, I think when God speaks to you. Yeah, it's the ideal.

It's like a huge breadcrumb from God.

Yeah, man. We're talking, like, massive breadcrumbs, but, yeah, you got to be open to see and feel those breadcrumbs. And oftentimes we're not. Like, if you're not in touch with what your head is saying, what your heart is saying, what your gut's telling you, like, all those things that you keep hearing about over and over again in life, you miss those cues. So I have worked hard to be open to what those cues are and go with them, man.

Thank you so much for sharing that story. I can really feel your heart, your presence, and I loved how you talked about the grief, and now it's turned into appreciation over time. If he was here in the room, and I know this is hypothetical, but just in the same way you shared the hummingbird story, I'll ask you this question with the same respect. If he was here and you were able to say something to him from gratitude, from your heart, what would you say? And what do you think he might say back?

I would say, I love you. I miss you. And I would thank him. I thank him for all the lessons that I've learned along the way. That in his own casual way, like, contributed to, like. He taught me how to live a fuller life. I think I was going to live a fuller life anyways, but I think he taught me to live it better. Just a little more respect, a little bit more in tune with my surroundings that I was able to do on my own. And I'm. I have massive gratitude for that. So I would definitely say big old thank you.

What do you think he might say back?

He'd say, don't kill my fucking plants.

The. The is such a cool. Such a cool answer. The. The way that this grief has transformed into gratitude and service to others in your entrepreneurial journey with your son walking on the floor. Floor. And how has all of this made you a more present father? How has all of this journey, like, losing the friend, taking over the estate, meeting your wife at seal fit and just the evolution you've been on. How has this, have you ever pinpointed directly how all of this. I don't want to say burden because it's not a burden. It's more just a divine responsibility. How has all of this shaped you to be an amazing father, man?

I mean, it starts when you're your own kid, right? It's my relationship with my father and like the lessons I learned from him. My dad was, you know, he was a hard knocked dude. Like he was a tough, tough man from Canada.

Was he in the military?

No, no, no, he wasn't at all. He was just, he was stern, he was fun. But, you know, he knew the boundaries of like parenting versus fun.

And.

You know, like I. You start with what you have there. And I didn't get a lot of time with my parents. Divorce when I was 8. I would get him on the weekends through my teenage years and he died when I was 22. Like it was really young, like freak accident, super healthy guy. But from there I learned some cautionary tales. You know, he struggled with substance abuse. He was sober the last 10 years of his life, but I didn't live with him during the sober years. I, I lived with him from zero to nine, right? So from zero to nine, I really like eight turning nine. I had a tormented father. I didn't know it. I was eight years old. I knew it. In hindsight, I knew it looking back at that chapter. But that's where like that started. And by the end of my teenage years into my twenties, we had repaired our relationship and I had made peace with what, what he had done, Infidelity with my mother, the alcoholism, because he'd been clean for 10 years, he'd found his way and I really appreciated that. And I was able to lean on him for advice and the things that I think as a father you always want to be able to provide. And I got that from him. We had that exchange of values in my early 20s and it was an amazing experience and it was right before he died. And it gave me a massive sense of closure and appreciation for him that I'm grateful for, I'm absolutely grateful for. I was able to take that out with me. And like anyone who's going through the rebellion phase in your 20s and like, you know, trying to be a pro snowboarder, like I was partying too much and running around and somewhere in there I had that cautionary tale provided by him that there's a point where it's too much and I Touched that point. I put my toe on that point, and I was like, that's too much. The party and the drinking, the, like, you know, just running too wild of a lifestyle. And in my 30s, I was able to pull back from that. And people like Glenn, who knew the limits of where to touch that point and come back from it, were really key in my life to help keep me on a good path. So he taught me discipline and accountability, and these were principles that, you know, as a pro Snowboarder in your 20s, like, you kind of have, but it's running a little bit lo. He really dialed that in and helped me tap into that. And it was always in me. It's in you. It's what we choose to do with it. And sometimes those external influences are amazing. So where does this help me with parenting? Having great, strong people in my life. And I've been fortunate to have them enter my life at different times and being open to their presence and open to the lessons that they have to teach you. Hard lessons and some really fun lessons, but being open to those experiences has fed me into where I am today. And I mean really hard lessons, like stuff that sucks to go through. But if you can learn from those sucky experiences, then you can pour yourself into that next generation. You can pour yourself into your relationships from, you know, from a different cup.

What was. What was one of the hardest lessons you learned in being a parent?

That it's not about you. And at the same time, you have to be the best you so that you can make it not about you. Like, it's this. It's a. You know, it's a weird. It's a paradox space to be in, because I'm hell bent on taking care of myself physically, mentally, spiritually, as much as humanly possible, learning as much as I can, because I want to be as present as possible so that I can give all that up to be there for them. So then it's not about me, it's about them. Well, what am I bringing to the table to help shape them, to help steer them, to help show them the path they have to walk it, but I want to show them the right path. Well, if I bring my baggage and my anger and my frustrations from this work thing or, you know, like, Heather and I got in a fight about this, or, you know, damn it. That, like you, it could be anything. And I pour that energy into them, what are they receiving? They're not receiving the best version of me. I got to give them the best version of me, which Means I need to create a balance in my life to take in all of these external influences and experiences and understand them, digest them, absorb them, and then come out of it the best possible person that I can be. So I need to do a lot of work for me, to make it not about me. If that makes sense.

It makes sense. How did you get through, we were talking before we cold plunged. How did you get through that phase in mar. In early, early childhood with the kids when they're super young and you're married and the stress is at an all time high. Maybe you're sleep deprived. Probably you are? Oh yeah, I would assume. How did you get through that phase of the roommate section in the relationship?

So there's this old expression that I have at different times lost track of and then revisited. Always date your wife. The idea that your wife, you are married, but treat her like she's your girlfriend and remember the qualities from that chapter that you never want gone. And we had the ability during the roommate years to laugh about our circumstances.

Just how hard it was.

I mean you, you kind of have to. And I'd already gone through the seal fit stuff. I'd gone through some of this like heavy mental training. I'd learned about box breathing. I learned about different ways to cope with all this external stress in the world. And these are really handy tools. But also have a sense of humor about it. And I, I definitely, you know, you got to be able to crack wise about like how ridiculous. Yes, parenting is.

It's so ridiculous.

It's so ridiculous. Like the things that we do, like jamming for five minutes on the monster song. Because like that's what you have to do with a three year old. Like you got to talk about this. Yes. And watching temper tantrums happen and like watching them lose their minds and not lose your own mind in the process because we all have our own fuses and sometimes you get cut short.

Yeah.

How do you manage that? Right. That's the self work. And we were both in tune with that. And my wife's a newscaster, so she gets up at 3 o' clock in the morning. She lives sleep deprived. So 3am and her job is on live TV and then she's done and home by 10:30, 11 in the morning. That means her day is done at 11am and she clicks back into parenting mode. Right. So like the rest of us just started our workday a couple hours earlier. We're going to work till five or six at night, then we're going to come home and do all that stuff. So we've always had a different baseline. Yeah, we had a sense of humor about the sleep deprivation and about, you know, what we were going through, and we kind of powered our way through it. The passion has always been there. Like, I've always been incredibly physically attracted to my wife. So, you know, she's the hottest woman on the planet. To me, like, she's hot, and she is. My wife's a smoke show. So during those years, we didn't lose that passion, but there's another passion that plays into it, and that's that passion for your children. And that kind of allowed for the roommate phase to kind of pass us by a little bit while I was still so physically attracted to her. So I was still trying to date her. And then we still, you know, like, it allowed us to, I think, absorb the kid phase a little bit better. And that wasn't a flawless process, to be clear.

Yeah, there's some bumps along the way.

There's so many bumps along the way.

There's moments where you're like, why do I feel so. Like I'm in a cave of my own? I'm sure you felt that at times.

I felt useless was probably the worst thing. Like, I hated not being a provider. And let me define that I can't breastfeed the kid. I'm effectively useless in shaping their lives other than keeping them occupied for five minutes. So, like, I could provide value. If I could provide a service, then, like, I would go and do those things. I would mow the lawn, and I would make sure that the yard was well manicured. My wife could give zero Fs about that, but it was important to me to keep doing something because she had the nurturing part down. And I felt like my frustration at that time was that I couldn't do those things. I found my calling later as a parent. Like, kids started turning 3 and 4. All of a sudden there's a buddy phase. They're a little bit more emotionally in tune with the parenting. That's when things really clicked in. So I had to survive those first couple years. We have a boy and a girl, and they're two years apart.

So same exact situation.

Really? Same situation that you're exact. I remember where you. Where you are. I remember dearly where I was. And it was, you know, that roommate phase that you refer to, the ability to get out of. It happens by genuinely appreciating the person that you chose to have this adventure with. Like, you chose to have this adventure with your wife with Your partner with, you know, with whomever. And when you do that, like, there's a commitment there. But to make it fun, to have a sense of humor, to tap into that, I think it starts with a true appreciation of that partner and what they bring to the table.

So the humor comes from the baseline of appreciation.

Oh, it can't come from anywhere else.

If you don't appreciate your partner, there's no humor possible.

There's no humor possible. Like, you're not even happy. So there's no humor in that state. But if you can appreciate what they brought to the table, this person that you wanted to have sex with, you wanted to have a baby with. It's a powerful feeling. The sex is great. The. The have a baby part, it's like, that's heavy stuff.

Yeah.

Like, I am moved to want to have a child with this person. Like, I can't imagine doing that with anybody else. It is. You women respond really well. And I've learned this later in life to feeling safe. Like, this is biology stuff. Right. And. And. And I'm. I'm very much. I'm a geek on this stuff now, where I date my wife now. But there were years in all of this. It wasn't the roommate phase per se. When I was so busy building the business, I got so busy trying to provide, like, you know, my motivation for Bubs and like my spark for has this, like, you know, it has a couple of different directions. But the biggest direction is helping the whole world live a healthy, full life to go chase adventures over here. It's providing for my family, and it's providing that. That world where we can have our adventures. We can do those things together. Well, I have to make this really hum and perfect my standards to make this work. But how do you be in both places at once? And that's a really, really difficult place to be. How do I leave this at the doorstep when I walk in the door? And I failed at that for several years where I brought all of the storm of being an entrepreneur and solving problems and having crazy circumstances at work. And I brought them into the home, the stresses of work. And I thought I was. I thought I had it dialed. I walked and I thought I had the best poker face ever. I didn't even realize it. For two years, all I could talk about was that storm to my wife. Well, that's not dating her. What? That doesn't do anything for her. Do you feel like. Do you feel like it?

In a way, it made her not feel safe?

Oh, God, yeah.

Is that what you're talking about?

That's what I'm getting at is like, I didn't recognize it at the time, but I wasn't coming in and appreciating her and showing her, like, all the feels that I had had for her. They were in me. I would look at her and be like, she's so, so beautiful. But I wouldn't say it. I would think it. Well, duh. Doesn't she know, like, I'm looking at her like, that means I love her and she's beautiful? Doesn't work that way. And so now after doing, you know, layers of reading, I'm like, oh, there's these things called the love languages. They're real. Those seven love languages are real. We've taken the tests. What her love languages are, what my love languages are, where there's overlap. How do we feed each other into those shows? I become really geeked on an author named Alison Armstrong.

Oh, yes. She's gonna be here in two weeks.

You kidding me?

Right where you're sitting.

You're kidding me.

No.

All right, so I've never heard this amazing until the last year. And I have read Understanding Women. I've read the Queen's Code, and now I've read Celebrating Men. Or is it Celebrating Women? Understanding Men.

It's literally the best codes for relationship I've ever seen.

Okay, So I am now, after making those mistakes and not doing the best job of dating my wife, all these great things I'm talking about that helped us in those early years, and then I lost my way in that. And we are now really focused on partnership. And it's a wild journey. Like, it is a. It is an absolute eye opening journey, but it's all rooted in human biology. It is rooted in evolution.

Yeah.

And that is so relatable to me. Like, so when you have her on, man, I am so excited for you. I've never met her. I just know of her. And I'm working with therapists who are massive fans of her work. And after having read these books, like, you know, I work with Dr. Doug Brackman, and Dr. Doug Brackman has this whole book, book on being driven. And, like, it speaks to me. Alison Armstrong's work speaks to me. And it has become part of a blueprint of, you know, marital thriving. I mean, look at 10 years of marriage. There's so much about my wife I don't know. There's so much about me that she doesn't know.

Yeah.

And tapping into those mysteries just brings you closer, man. It's like, it's super fun and understanding each other. Like, don't build a mental story in your head. Don't let the monkeys take over. When your wife says something like, go the extra mile and figure out what's behind that and then understand why she's saying what she's saying or not saying. And you can tap into some stuff there. Like, why is she getting frustrated?

Yeah. It's almost like being an emotional ninja. Being a man without judgment. That's the key. Without judgment. I loved earlier when you talked about the appreciation is actually before the humor. Because I think about my grandfather. I showed you the clock by the pull up bar. This is the third podcast we've had him on the table here. And one thing, he told me this story about when he was in boot camp for World War II and they would have to run and it was super uncomfortable and he didn't shave properly one day and his drill instructor was like, Padolino, you didn't shave. Shave him dry. And somebody had to shave him dry. And he's telling us this story. He's got a bloody face. And he's like, you know, your grandpa just has to laugh when it gets really hard. That's how I've made it through everything. And it's so funny. I mean, that was like 30 years ago. He's telling me this story on Mount Helix in LA Mesa and I can remember it like it's right now.

Yeah.

And so that's a little breadcrumb for me. Inspired from you of like. Yeah, well, he appreciated what he was doing. You appreciate your wife. When we appreciate someone or even a challenge itself as a gateway to growth, then we can bring the humor. But I think that's, that's such a code. You mentioned to be able to have a platform of just being grateful.

Yeah.

Period. Then humor can come. Because if it's humor before that, it's not going to be genuine humor. It's going to be like spiritual bypassing.

Yeah, yeah. You can crack wise about something. It might lower the temp in the room a little bit, but you're not really getting there. If you have the ability to really appreciate. Look at. I appreciate that I have the ability to have stressful opportunities with my company. Like, wow, what a, what a cool problem to have.

Yeah.

Like, that's a really different wiring.

Oh, yeah.

To have. But like, I appreciate that I'm going to, you know, be involved in all these complicated decision making things to make this thing better and help Bubs evolve. I appreciate what my wife does and who she is and who she wants to be, and the energy that I can draw and the inspiration I can get from her. So if I have that as a baseline. Well, now I'm learning different cues that, like, I also have to tell her that I have to express that. So hopefully she listens to this podcast, and hopefully I remember to say it when I see her tonight, when I get home, and tomorrow and the next day and the next day. Because once a week doesn't cut it. And I've learned that, too. Like, what's the frequency of messaging? And if you believe it and if it's natural and it's authentic, say it, man. I could sit here right now and be like, dude, I should say this. I'll say it right now. Josh, you look great, man. I met up with you five years ago. You are not in the shape that you're in right now. Physically. You look awesome.

Thank you.

Well, I was thinking that first thing this morning. Right. But we don't always say those things, but they're in our heads. When I think about my wife and I just see her, and I'm like, wow, she looks amazing. Well, that's a trapped thought. Share it. Hey, babe, you look amazing.

That's.

It doesn't have to be complicated. It was in my head. I'm just letting it out. My kids do something. Awesome. Let them know. Love on him. Lucy does something cute. Tell her. Solves a problem. Awesome. My son draws a killer shark. Let him know, you know, you're not, like, fluffing them on that one. You're genuinely.

Yeah, it's genuine.

Yeah. So, like, let it out.

It's a great code, man. So there's been a lot of ground we've covered here. I loved how we started with collagen and we ended up with parenting. Yeah, that's a really amazing segue, but it's one of the same, because when your kids see you, when your wife sees you, when just your community, when you see yourself doing something that's loving, that's responsible, that has goodness wrapped in it. Really what bubs is in collagen, it's a Trojan horse for other things. Because, let's be honest, when you start doing one good thing for yourself and your kids see you and your wife sees you, it's this domino effect. So it might start with collagen, and then when your knees feel better and your back feels better, then you train more, which. Then your kids see you training more, and then they're, like, interested in training. It's Literally a domino. Have you seen this play out not just in your own life, but with the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that have been taking the collagen. Like it's really one in the same. It's a Trojan horse for personal growth.

Yep. I couldn't agree more. Like in my house it's me going to the gym at 6:30 in the morning, which is our garage, and my daughter coming out and joining me and being like, I want to do what daddy's doing. And my son is, you know, hell bent on getting his first pull up by himself. And I'm like, practice, you gotta practice. And practice is a newer concept, right? Because like kids jump up and they can play a video game or something or do something and then they just expect to be great at whatever the thing is they want to do.

Yeah.

And it's like, nah man, you got to get your reps in, you got to practice. You're not going to get your first pull up, not today. And that can be super defeating, right?

Oh yeah.

But if you tell them you're going to get your first pull up, we're going to practice and then you help them, you give them that assist and then maybe the next time a little less and a little less. But three weeks in, they're doing their own pull ups and the fact that they want to participate is amazing. Customer reviews, unsolicited reviews and thoughts and emails from our customers are absolutely amazing to me. Good or bad, right? If it's bad, it's an opportunity for improvement. If it's good, it's an opportunity to engage. And I love that feedback loop. And I get those emails like they get forwarded right to me and I get to talk with folks. I had someone complain about our shipping service over the weekend and I see the blip in our little Slack channel and I just write to the team, I got this one. And I write an email back to the customer who's complaining that like he loves the product but he hates how long it takes to get there. And I'm like, you know what, I hate it too. And we're actually taking steps to fix it. And here's what those steps are. And you probably don't care that I'm writing this, but I'm just going to tell you anyways that I've heard your message, I see you and we're going to fix this. And I love being able to do that because that customer doesn't know that behind the scenes we're literally changing warehouses to change the shipping Method to get our product to our customer's hands faster. Because it's important to me that they've got a great experience with us in every single touch point. Well, this guy just brought it to my attention, so I'm able to respond. The people that have a great experience with it, hey, I'm back at the gym. I climbed a mountain. I can pick up my kids. I had this great transformative experience through your product. Man, that is, like, the life fuel that just gets me so fired up.

Oh, yeah.

It's a social proof that you're doing the right thing. And who doesn't need a good attaboy? And Alison L. Armstrong knows all about this. Yeah, we thrive on the attaboys. The compliments, like, the pet and the dog. You know, if we're all just, you know, a bunch of furry dogs out there, like, give us a pat when we do something good. I mean, if my wife compliments me or thanks me or. Or anything for a gesture or a deed or something that I've done, I will literally helps. I can run through walls. Like, it is the biggest energy. A compliment, an authentic, genuine compliment from a loved one fuels us, and there's a huge energy from that. It's different than the energy she gets. Like, she. She wants hers in a different way. It's human touch in a lot of ways. It's walking into the house and putting my arms around her. She gets fueled by that. She gets an energy from.

So her love language is touch, and yours is words of appreciation.

I didn't know it was words of affirmation.

Words of affirmation.

Were.

Were.

Were. That. That's a new one to me. But, yeah, I learned that from, like, from taking these tests. Like, how do you really feel about this? And I'm like, like, gifts. Not even on my radar. I think I'm just conditioned from all the years of getting free snowboards. You know, they don't really mean as much to me. They're still cool.

Yes.

But, yeah, and for her, it's both. It's both words of affirmation and physical touch. And, you know, it's literally like the. It is like holding hands. It's just being physically connected and then, you know the right words. So it's cool. It's cool to learn that. And then you can feed into it. Like, oh, man. Like, I didn't know that before. Well, you gotta ask questions.

One of the best things in my life that I get to do, if not. Well, if that. I mean, being a father is pretty amazing. Much more fun than doing a podcast. But this is my joy in life, is to really learn about the heart and soul of someone so that then I can understand how they show up and what they do in the world. And I know everybody can feel that from you, man. So thank you for showing up in the way you do. You know, your commitment to excellence in all the small ways and being a father, being in relationship, honoring Glenn, honoring your brotherhood there, and just showing up in the world so powerfully, man. It's inspiring. That's what I think people feel most from this podcast. I know I do, y'.

All.

It's on the screen right now. Support the company. Support your body. The code is Josh20. Thank you for the hookup. It's not cheap to make these products.

It's not. It's not to do it right.

Getting 20 off. It's on the screen right now. Josh 20 is amazing. So thank you for your generosity, man.

Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Thanks for supporting the cause and. And. And having an epic conversation.

Yo, one of my favorites. I just. The wisdom that was laid down, what I thought was going to be more of, like, a physiology conversation, and the benefits of collagen turned into so much more. So I'm grateful for that. And as we say goodbye, just with all the things you've learned up to this point, what's the recipe? You know you put ingredients in your products, right? So what. What's the ingredients in your life that allow you to live life well? In other words, how do you live your life well? How do you define that?

You know, it's funny. We. I got this motto, this expression from a friend of mine, Lance Cummings, and he was a warrant officer, Navy seal, and he was one of the coaches over at SEAL Fit, and he's got me beat by. I think he's about 10 years older than I am. And this guy is just diesel ripped. Gets after it every single day. I mean, a true inspiration. And we're working out one day. And he just very casually, in a super deep Southern accent, says to me, oh, you know, the thing to do out there is to die young as late as possible. And I was just like, what did you just say? He said, well, son, you die young as late as possible. And that just, like, hit. So how do I bring youthful energy into everything that I do? How do I bring the right perspective? And that's. I do it in the morning with a morning routine. I do it by trying to really be present in most everything that I'm doing. And that's not always possible. I mean, we live. It's 20, 25. There's a lot of. Lot of barrage out there of. Of. Of different signals being thrown at us, whether we like it or not. But try to be truly present and just bring your most authentic self in. Everything that you do, which is going to lead you to a healthier lifestyle. You're going to treat your body well, which means you're going to treat your mind well. You're going to have clarity of thought and, you know, be there for all the adventures that are there, man. Just be there for it.

Yeah, I can. Even though you're in your 50s, I can still see the little kid in you, which is the most fun, right? Like, literally die young as late as possible. I love that. Let's end right there. Thank you, Sean Lake, for being on the pod today, man. I appreciate you.

Thank you for having me, Josh. This has been amazing.

You guys share this podcast with somebody that's been struggling with pains and aches and just. They need a jump start of some kind. You know, like when we move, this is what actually fuels our body for energy. But if you're so broke or rusty that you can't move, then you can't train. You can't feel good. So start with the fundamentals and the building blocks. It's on the screen right now again for your discount. And y' all support this company. You know, just the. The heart and soul behind this is so different than going on Amazon and buying something from China. It's no knock on China, but, like, you know, do something that feels good, not just with the dollars that you spend, but the body that you have. So until we see you again on another podcast, I'm wishing you love, wellness, but most importantly, peace and power. You cannot have power unless it comes from peace. We'll talk with you soon.