USA Health Care = Sick Care System? The Conscious Medicine NAD+ Solution

This is the problem, I think with medicine, you don't go to the dentist or the doctor till there's a problem. You go when you're healthy. Probably not. Should you? I think absolutely. I truly believe biohacking is just the difference where medicine should be and just the starting point. Usually biohack when you're already healthy and get like super healthy. Whereas in medicine, you usually start at a sick point and you get to a healthier point. There's a 2018 study out of Spain that showed 80 women were put on NAD plus and they had chronic fatigue syndrome. And they studied their resting heart rate, pain, sleep and fatigue. And after eight weeks against a placebo, you saw greatly improved levels of alertness and energy. And also that resting heart rate was much lower.

If you could wave a magic wand, what would you change about the sick care system?

I would change the way doctors are educated. Doctors just don't believe nutrition has anything to do. We got drugs, we got surgery, you're good. If you change the educational system where doctors started more on this functional basis. Basis of. Tell me about you and what you're doing on a daily basis. I'll show you the results of the labs. We're gonna plan something where we start with lifestyle changes. We don't start with the heavy drugs and cutting you open. Those are last resorts in my mind. Yet if you look at medicine, that's their first resort and that's backwards.

Anytime in my life I ever fight against something, I find that I always get a lot of friction. Anytime I stand for something, it always works out better.

I always say, I'm not anti anything. I'm pro health. That's all. I am not anti vax, I'm not anti conventional medicine, anti pharma.

Yeah.

Like I think they all have their problems. But most of all, I am pro health. That's it.

Yeah. That's the most important thing.

Yeah.

I mean, how, how could we ever accomplish anything in life? Always fighting against something else.

No. What was it Mother Teresa said that, right? Don't invite me to an anti war protest, invite me to a pro peace.

Yeah, well, we, we know that the sick care system is broken, but this big question that I think I've been feeling for a long time, my life and probably your whole life, since you were 5, traveling with your dad, going to conferences around big doctors that spoke big ass words, you probably got imprinted at a super young age that like, yes, there's positive aspects to western medicine, but man, what I'd love to explore with today is like there's also some dark shadow that we can bring some light to. Absolutely taking care of ourselves first, obviously, which is why we're here, man. So welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, thank you. I love just jumping into this and being here.

Yeah, we're getting a running start, man. So Casper, I. I've really enjoyed just getting to know you and your team and also we're going to be talking about this today, the, the Nadavim product. But there's a lot of story besides just the supplement. And honestly, it's something that our body already produces. We can just stack it so that our body can effectively produce more of it, correct?

That is correct. You already have this incredible compound. Just like we have oxygen everywhere. I mean, it's just as important. Every single cell needs this NAD and we have it within us. Unfortunately, we deplete it. Just like if we don't breathe correctly or you know, start going down a sick path that takes the oxygen away from us. In some ways, the same thing can happen with nad.

Yeah, that's interesting to me because people talk about biohacking and especially with the advent of Dave Asprey and Ben Greenfield and you know, they've both been on the show a couple times actually. And I love biohacking. But also, what about just the conversation starter of how do we support the body's natural homeostasis and the regulatory systems that are synergistic, you know, the checks and balances within ourselves. And I think now is probably the best time to have the conversation about energy than ever, Casper, because my schedule's full. I'm a two time dad and like, do you have kids or are you.

I don't, I don't. Part of that is probably cause I'm so damn busy. I'm not even like dating half the time. I'm just working on business and everything.

Come on. But anyways, we're all so busy and energy demands are at an all time high. But there's also the complement of the environment we can chat about and how the soil has been depleted and how our foods have been depleted. And honestly just the toxins that maybe attack our natural NAD and NAD plus in the body. So let's go there first, man. You know, this is a really interesting one for me. I didn't know too much about NAD before I came across your company. And it's on the screen right now if y' all are interested to see exactly what this is all about. You'll see right now some motion on the screen. But share with us like, what exactly is the nad and how does it differ from NAD plus? They're two separate things. They get confused quite a bit. And then we'll go into the story and get a bunch more science from you.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I first learned about nad, my father and I. My father, who's the physician, went down to Springfield, Louisiana, to learn from Dr. Richard Medier. And this was like, maybe a decade ago. And he was using NAD plus for addiction for people in withdrawal from alcohol, from heroin, opiates and everything. And. And my father knew about this for a while. Again, NAD is so critical. Every single cell needs. It's basically what you're doing to transfer energy into the cell from the mitochondria and get each cell to work properly. So if we are. If our building blocks, our cells and they're not working, but they don't have the energy, we definitely won't have the energy to go through with normal life, with the normal functions, with being truly healthy. So he was really, really interested for a long time, but didn't know really how this could be applied within medicine as a whole. So when we went down to Springfield, we saw this firsthand. People just lined up in IV chairs, getting thousands of milligrams at a time for two weeks straight and then coming out totally different. You know, we spoke to people that were just like, listen, I. You know, I'm an addict. The worst part of it that I can't stop is withdrawal. Is that feeling that. That sensation after. That's what keeps you in it. Everyone said. But when you gave the body NAD and you flushed it with energy, and that was a big thing for. For addicts, it depletes you of nad. There are so many things oxidative, stress, drugs, alcohol, you know, just general toxins. Everything depletes you over time. That's why most people become depleted as we age naturally.

That's a process. But our environment exacerbates that.

Absolutely. I mean, you think about it, just the idea of stress in general depletes us. Think of who isn't stressed this day, who isn't in a fight or flight reaction most of the day like that. That's how we live. We are glued to an information cycle that never ends that keeps us in that. That keeps us in fear. That is so depleting. And then you talk about this idea of, like, you know, energy and brain function. I mean, I agree with so many people out there, whether it's the Cal Newports or, you know, the Ryan Holidays, that focus is our superpower and we live in a day of distraction and that's it. None of us could stay focused for too long.

Yeah. Especially with these phones. We're being obviously trained.

Right, right. So to go back to your, like, question, NAD plus is this essential compound, coenzyme, so important, the electron transfer chain, you know, so important to everything that happens within us, basically. And NAD and all the precursors that come before it. You talk about nr, nam, kind of these, these smaller blocks. Because NAD is a large compound in a sense, it's. It's pretty complex, actually. If you look at and break it.

Down, it's complex to say as well, nicotinamide, adenine, dinucleotide, nucleotide.

Right. The big.

Yeah, yeah, say that 10 times.

No, I've said it too many times. Got tongue tied. And then you look at the other ones, right. Like nmn, if you go one step back, nicotinamide mononucleotide, then you go a step back from that. Nr, nicotinamide riboside. And then NAM is just nicotinamide. Right. So it's like breaking it down. And that's where a lot of the precursors come in that you see a lot of companies going towards. So you kind of understand that what they're doing is there before that they're going to need some other elements to create NAD and then go into the cell and provide energy. And that's where that plus comes in as well. That is the electron chain as well. So it kind of allows you to interchange electrons. So it's very good. Free radicals as well. Right. Because that's part of it too, within the electron change.

And we know, we've heard forever now that the mitochondria is essentially the powerhouse of the cell. That was like Biology 101 in school, but. But in order to support that powerhouse, it needs substrate, like, it needs fuel to get there. And so what was super fascinating, everyone's talking about all these different ways to lower your oxidative stress, lower your allostatic load. But when I looked at the things that we're actually going to give energy, it seems like so many people are trying to block out the things that are stealing energy, which is great. There's nothing wrong with that. But to supply the substrate in a way that the body's already doing is really what this NAD plus is all about. And honestly, what I noticed, man, is my dreams would get kind of crazy. I've been taking it now for a month or so, and I would be dreaming and I would wake up and be like, was that fake what is this? Does NAD plus do to the brain? Because I felt it with sulforaphane as well when I took the Broccoli plus. But then when I was taking your product, I was like, wow, this really makes the dreams intense. What is that?

It's really interesting because once you start to fuel the cells, everyone's going to react a little bit differently. And of course, you know, NAD has this impact not only in the brain, where 20% of all the energy goes, right? You have this three pound, little, you know, sponge ball in your. In your skull. But as Michi Ikaku says, on your shoulders rests the most complicated object in the known universe, right? That is your brain. The human brain is insanely complex and it's insanely important, right? It's what makes us human in the first place. So to give it the proper energy levels that it needs to focus, concentrate, do all of the things it does within a day, let us breathe. We don't even know about half of it, right? It's happening without us doing anything, but it's taking up energy. So you absolutely need to power the brain. NAD is something that, that is probably the most critical element within powering the brain. So if you really look at it from that standpoint of what do you need to have a productive day, to have a day where you do not lack energy, mental clarity, you know, acuity, short term memory, all these things that so many people are facing right now, then that's nad. That's, that's where we looked at. That's why, for us, Josh, it was really about, hey, what's the lowest hanging fruit in everything we do, we run a medical clinic where we see the toughest cases from around the world. Neurodegenerative cancers, you know, Lyme disease, things that conventional medicine doesn't have a good track record with. And we've been getting very good results. And part of that is we do NAD infusions. We brought it in, we started with, and we saw people that had brain fog, you know, tremors, all these things got much better. And we said, this impacts so many of our patients, but it also impacts so much of society as a whole. We are all depleted from this energy that sustains our brain and what we do every day.

Yeah, but what's the truth about why we are so depleted? Is it soil, food, water, all of.

It, emf, environment, add it all together, right? Like, I love the idea. In European biological medicine, you call it the barrel method, right? You have, you are born with this barrel. Basically, everyone has a different Size barrel because we're all genetically different. That's where genes do kick in in some ways, your predisposition for how large that barrel, how small that barrel is. And that barrel accumulates toxins. Each toxin could be something you drink in water, you know, the food you eat, the air has pollution in it. And you keep going EMF 5G, all these things you start compounding glyphosate, heavy metals, all of these things drops in your barrel and you can compensate. Your body's good until it reaches the top of that barrel and starts spilling over. Yeah, that is the point. Symptoms occur and chronic disease starts. And so we, you do have these organs elimination. That's kind of like a spigot in the barrel. But it's only so big, you know, they can only handle so much. And in the last probably two to three decades, we've just increased the amount of toxins, stress, everything exponentially. It's crazy how many things we on a daily basis are exposed to.

Is it something where the oxidative stress increases and then that's specifically what depletes the NAD plus or is it something else combined with it?

It's, it is that absolutely. Oxidative stress is driving factor of NAD depletion.

Yeah.

But so are pharmaceutical drugs, alcohol, that along with the oxy. So it's a double compounding thing. One molecule of alcohol requires two molecules of NAD to process and eliminate. So you're depleting that cell from that basically to do this. And then you go into this depletion zone where you start going down, down in these NAD levels. And so that's why it's really, really, really important to not just replenish, but I say pre planish your cells, always have them at their peak. Don't wait for the problem. This is the problem, I think with medicine and most people know this. It's like you don't go to the dentist or the doctor till problem. Do you go when you're healthy? Probably not. Should you? I think absolutely. And this is where I give the Dave Asprey's and Ben Greenfields of the world mad props because they are looking to optimize health. And I truly believe biohacking is just the difference where medicine should be and just the starting point. What I mean by that, usually biohack when you're already healthy and get like super healthy from it.

Yeah.

Whereas in medicine you usually start at a sick point and you get to a healthier point.

Oh dude, that's such a good point. Like I every three to Six months. And actually lately it's been every three months I get a full panel, right, everything. Because I want to know what's going on. And I work with a functional medicine doctor, concierge, virtually. But that's because, like, I really have gotten educated and I know all the things that I should be looking out for, you know, specifically like the C reactive protein and what's going on with my triglycerides. And it's so crazy, Casper, you know, with all your years and starting at 5 years old, traveling with your father, who is a physician, your mother is in medicine. Like, medicine's kind of in your DNA. It's almost like an EPI on top of your, your DNA. And so it's so funny that, like, you went from finance and marketing in college and now you've wound up exactly in the environment you were when you were five. Like, do you ever look back and go, wow, if I would have known what I know now, or if I would have started at a different place, could you have made an even bigger wave than already what you're doing?

You know, I don't like to look back and change too much about my life because it really did kind of lead me into exactly where I need to be. I truly believe the universe works in those ways that it leads you into these paths that are unknown and kind of laughs at you half the way through. And it's like, yeah, you should have been a doctor like your dad told you all those years, right?

But then you couldn't have been a world class CEO without your finance and marketing background.

That's. That's where I always say, like, when people are like, man, you, I bet you wish you had MD at the end of your name. Like, no, because if I did, I probably wouldn't be here and I'd probably be doing just like normal, conventional stuff that makes sense. You know, I, I get it. Also, I, I have a lot of good friends. My co founder went back to medical school, and I wouldn't say he was indoctrinated to where he like, completely bought in, but like, when he left to go to medical school, when he came out, it's two different people. I'm sorry, like you do you spend so much money, so much time on, like, learning a process that is, you know, medicine as we know it, conventionally based, but there's so much outside of that. And that's where I appreciate my father for being able to go out on a limb and say, hey, I gotta travel the world and see what else.

Is out There you're touching on exactly the nugget of today's interview. Because the. The sick care system, we know it needs to be changed. We all have the elephant in the room that I think the insurance companies, the medical complex and even big food in some way is involved in. They kind of feed each other, Casper.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm sure you see this in your clinics when people come in, or not even your clinics, just when you're speaking and when you're traveling like people aren't. Well, there's a lot of disease, right. The body not in ease. And I wonder if you could wave a magic wand and maybe this is a good starting place for the section of the convo. If you could wave a magic wand, what would you change about the sick care system?

Man, you know, how many wishes could I get with that magic wand?

Would be like three. Big three.

Okay, Big three. Number one, I would change the way doctors are educated. Listen, when you only get a day or less of nutritional training within your whole, you know, years, that's all MDs. That's most MDs. Let's say, you know, almost all MDs will tell you that straight up, that a day or so and sometimes it's a little bit more depending on which school you go to. But back in the day, even, you know, doctors just don't believe nutrition has anything to do. You go with a doctor like my father in the seventh, it was nothing. It was like, that is not a factor at all. Don't even touch on it. We got drugs, we got surgery. You're good. You don't need to talk to the patient even about that stuff. Their diet, their lifestyle and everything. So wild it is that alone. If you change the educational system where doctors came out and started more on this functional basis of. Tell me about you and what you're doing on a daily basis. I'll show you the results of the labs and everything. We're going to meet in the middle somewhere. We're going to plan something that where we start basically with lifestyle changes. We don't start with the heavy drugs and cutting you open. Those are last resorts in my mind. Yet if you look at medicine, that's their first resort. And that's backwards. You know, we should be starting on, hey, you have this because you're eating poorly, stressed, not sleeping well, have emotional trauma, you know, don't find purpose in life right now, which is leading you into depression, which is then cascading into other things as well. Yeah, let's start unraveling that. Let's look at as truly body, mind, spirit, and not just say, here's a drug for that, you know, subdue you. And that's disease care management. That's not health care. You know, that's where I kind of laugh sometimes when people like, we got a problem with health care, it's like, yeah, it has nothing to do with health at all. Most people that go into health care are only going to manage their disease until the day they die. That's really sad, man. It's like, especially when you think about it. You got kids. Kids now are getting sicker and sicker. Half of our patient population, you think, oh, chronically ill. They must be, you know, baby boomers, older people, they're in their 20s, you never know it. You walk by them every single day, that person is suffering and that person was told they're going to have to suffer for the rest of their lives. And that's where I'm like, no, that, that can't be the, the, the system.

We'Re in, dude, that's so strong. Pillar one, educate doctors in a new way with new conscious medicine. If you had to describe that, that's a big term conscious medicine.

Yeah.

And at your clinics and what you're doing as a company, like, it's. I could feel it, it's palpable. I knew it when we were on the zoom call. I knew. I feel it from you now. Like, it's, it's in there, it's in you. How would you describe what's your vantage point on true conscious medicine? What is that really?

I think it's humanizing medicine. I think it's sitting down with two people and actually realizing the person across from you. If you're a doctor and the patient is there is not the lab results is not something as simple as a chart. I think it's actually getting to know people and truly understanding that at our core, we're all trying to help each other. We're all humans with, you know, that suffer at certain points. But I do think we've sort of nailed it down. We've become very mechanistic and technical in medicine. And I, I don't fault the doctors. Again, my father was a doctor. I have plenty of friend. Like, I know hundreds of doctors out there. They're conventionally trained, great people. They were taught to disassociate, to basically don't get connected to the patient because they may die. They made this, you know, you have to go through nowadays, especially when you look at the health insurance system and just how you get reimbursed how you're paid. You got to be quick. It's like a factory.

Because everything's by a specific code.

Absolutely. You get the code, you get reimbursed by that. You need an average, if you're in just general care, about seven or, you know, ten minutes or so. But you got to be able to get that person out, otherwise, you will not survive. And guess what? You got tons of debt. You went to medical school. That ain't cheap. I get it. I understand the business side of it.

Yeah.

You know, unfortunately, the business side runs the whole thing more than the human side. And again, these doctors are kind of pigeonholed into, well, what am I supposed to do? I now have all this debt. The system behind me is all about quick, get them on a prescription, move on quick, send them to the next specialist, move on quick. Surgery, move on. Right? And I hear these patients come to me and they're like, you know, I've been here there. What can your center do? What can you do different? It's like we could sit there and listen for 30 minutes an hour. Have you actually explain what's going on? Believe you. Also, a lot of patients come and they're like, these are my symptoms. And then doc's looking at the charts, gone. Nothing's here. I think it's all in your head. You know how demoralizing that is for a patient to hear that all of these things going on, this suffering going on in their body, this. This pain is in their head, you start to go crazy a little bit.

That's the term idiopathic medicine. Right. You can't figure out what it is, so you slap some kind of nomenclature on it.

Right. And. And this is another. I would say this is a big part of the problem as well. The diagnosis is everything in medicine. To us, it means very little meaning. It's a description of things. But you having hypertension, Parks, or whatever it may be, does not dictate how you should be treated and how you should be grouped together with everyone else.

Yes, yes.

The reason you have your disease is going to be insanely incredibly unique compared to the next person that has the exact same disease, exact same demographic. I mean, look at the studies into even twins, almost identical genetic material. And yet in their environment, as they grow apart and live their lives, make their own choices every day, they could have diseases that are completely different and how they would be treated should be completely different. Generalized protocols based on the diagnosis is something of the past. It should be in medicine, unfortunately, still A big thing.

I mean, we're trying to tackle a radically large and complex question.

Yes.

How do we change the sick care system for good and for good being the focus? Because there is a lot of times where people do. And I'm not, I'm not anti Western medicine there, There are some times where people really need that, really need that. And it can help people to turn around and take more empowerment in their own health. But there's this delta that you spoke about, and the delta is if a doc only has 7 to 10 minutes with a patient and they get paid by codes, where in that seven to ten minutes can they talk about holistic health? Where in that seven to ten minutes can they talk about smart supplementation, water quality, macronutrients, micronutrients, detoxification, inflammation? Like, where exactly are we supposed to put that conversation? And how do we change the construct of that meeting time in a new wave of conscious medicine so that there is space for that discussion to be had?

Yeah, it's a question I've been asking myself for decades now.

I was asking myself this morning in the sauna. I'm like, how would we change that?

Because here's the thing. Like, we started when I started the company in 2004, so it was, it was going to be a company that first and foremost supplied, like, supplements that you found at these top clinics. They're doing integrative medicine so people have access to them. So it was like an Amazon basically of like good supplements. Not the ones in, you know, the.

Store at the grocery ones in Amazon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It then led into this, like, well, we want to do more. There has to be more of a benevolent cause to really change medicine. Like, I didn't just do this to become a retailer, wholesale or whatever. And so it became, how do we impact the most people? And then we said, well, let's start with the doctors. Let's train them, let's. Let's get them that are frustrated. Like my father once was when he was anesthesiologist working in a big hospital and doing a lot of surgeries and pain medicine and prescribing drugs left and right. He said, this isn't what I came to do. Like, there's got to be other doctors like me.

Right?

And there are, there's a lot of doctors there. Hey, I want to go beyond what I was taught. And we started there, but it was difficult, you know, it really was because there's so much out there and, and doctors are very, very busy. You know, any practice like, it's, It's a very busy thing to do. It's the reason I didn't get into medicine, by the way. My dad missed a lot of my games when I was growing up.

Yes.

And that. Right. And I was like, I'm not gonna do this.

A sacrifice.

It is. It's a big sacrifice. So I give props again to any doctor out there working hard. I never knock anybody because they're just trying to do the best with what they're given with the toolkit in front of them. But then we threw a bunch of tools on table, like, learn it, right? And we'll give you this. But it's, it's a time suck. It's a lot. And a lot of these doctors were already at a stage where they were. I don't know if I could change so much at my age, at my thing, would patients do? You start to doubt. My father was there too. Everyone, every one of his colleagues ostracized him, was like, you're gonna be out of business soon, Tom, because you don't do this, you don't go into a different out of pocket kind of scheme and expect to do better. That's not what medicine is. He did it anyway, and he did great doing it. So he showed it can be done, but it's incredibly complex and incredibly hard. And here's the big thing. Do patients really want it? At the end of the day, medicine is truly about the demand of patients. You think about, why does big Pharma go after the patient? Why are they allowed to show commercials like, what you can't get that you can't buy it yourself. You have to go to a doctor and say, give it to me. And doctors do it, unfortunately. So it is. Absolutely. And this is what big Pharma does very well, shows people running through the, you know, sunflower fields together and being like, try this drug. It'll help you out with a million side effects that they buzz through and.

Like, you know, shitting your pants, dying, hacking.

Right, right.

Falling over during the day.

90% of that commercial. All things that sound awful and then they're just running through.

And it reminds me, do you remember when you were a little kid, the Micro Machines guy? Micro Machines. It's not the guy that would talk super fast with the toy cars that I think they hired that guy's lineage to do all the pharma commercials because they say, like, you might die, you might fall on your face, you might this, you might that. It's. It's freaking hilarious, but also sad.

It's actually insanely sad and insanely hilarious. Like, you could do that. You could laugh and be truly sad. It's something like, you know, you got to be able to find laughter and humor in something that's. That's somewhat tragic as well. Because, yeah, I mean, you think about those side effects and how many people are on them, and it's like, well, that. That's not good. All those things aren't good. And you got to take that for the rest of your life and expect none of that to happen. Like, obviously something's happening within you that's not good, that's toxic. And so to go back to my point, I. I see it now as this idea that what I'm trying to push as a message is you gotta place health first. If the patient demands, hey, I don't want to go on this drug first, can I try the supplements? Can I try diet? Can I be empowered with my own choices rather than being told, just take the pill and keep doing what you're doing that got you sick anyway, so if patience, which we all are, by the way, I use that term very loosely, because who is not a patient. We're healing every single day, every single second.

And we're going through atrophy every day as well.

Every day? Every day.

In true duality.

Absolutely. Every day we get a little closer to that and points. We never know when it is, but we were always there. And the only thing we could do is try and prolong it as much as we can. How do we do that? We think about health. We prioritize it. When we wake up, our first decision should really be one that is a healthy one. What is it for most? It's reach over to your phone, get stressed about things coming in, check your pings that already caused the sympathetic cortisol to spike beyond where it should be, and that leads into setting up the rest of your day basically in an unhealthy way. And slowly but surely, we're just, you know, bringing ourselves to disease with these actions.

It takes massive discipline, like you had said. The number one problem is that would patients actually want the holistic care in the first place? Let's say your magic wand. Yeah, Sprayed the pixie dust. On the other side of that, when people who are used to, because of their basically brain being hijacked and taught by the pharmaceutical companies that lobby Congress, people don't know this. There are literally hundreds of, if not hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars lobbied in Congress by the top three to five pharmaceutical companies in the world. That was exactly what we experienced in 2020, by the way. More money is spent in Congress than I think gas, oil, other commodities combined. If you look at pharmaceutical spend with that much energy. I don't mean to paint a dark picture here. Like, I want to get real with you. With that much energy and that much leverage against people becoming empowered, choosing to be a holistic care manager for their own lives, their own body, how do we essentially not fight against pharma because we would lose if we try to fight against them. But how do we turn the tide on that? You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. You know, I've been thinking about this for a long time. I'm trying to write a book. It's a very hard process, you know, to do, but it's like it looks at where we are, a new system. But the whole idea is like, don't become a part of any system. Be your own right. Be your own best advocate. Be your own. If you're healthy, you're not in the system. That's just the bottom line. You can opt out. Basically you could say, I don't even want to be a part of this because I know to push against this Goliath does nothing except upset them and you're not going to move them. This isn't a Dave and Glass. You know that. That's not it right there. Because it's. It's so ingrained and it's. It's in people's belief systems. Even you know that this is the.

Way you want to have a baby. Go to the doctor.

Yeah.

Sniffle. Go to the doctor.

And it's really interesting. I was at a Greg Braden and Dr. Bruce Lipton event not long ago. Like, wonderful. People's talking about consciousness and evolution. They basically said, like, from ages 1 through 7, you are sponge. That's when your belief systems are ingrained in your subconscious. And what are you told at that age? When you go to see a doctor, just listen to the doctor. They know how to keep you healthy. Don't do anything outside. Right. You are told the doctor's in charge of your health.

Yeah, yeah.

And once you have that belief system, you keep with it, even if you don't agree with it subconsciously, it is ingrained in you. It is running in the background all the time. And so it's very hard to say no to a doctor. Ever. Try and tell, like I tell my friends. I'm like, well, just don't listen to him when he says, go on these prescription drugs. Get a second Opinion, do something for yourself, like actually work out, change your diet, see what happens. Yeah, like, dude, that's my doctor. You know, that's. That's a response because it's ingrained. I understand that, you know, you don't go against your doctor almost, or else you might end up dead. Right. That's what we're told. So to go against all of that and try and really just focus on health requires a really, a big change. But I think we're at a tipping point, you know, because we're looking at how many people are chronically ill, how many people are depressed. And look at the numbers now, man. Again, going back to children, you know, mental illness, obesity, these things should not be happening in children. And it's becoming rampant and accelerating. Autism, adhd, you know, you just go down the line and it's just impacting more and more kids. And I think that should be a tipping point very soon. And I know for a lot of people it has been, especially during the pandemic. Pandemic had a beautiful silver line.

Absolutely.

Don't get me wrong, it was horrific in many ways, but everything has that duality, reality, the polarity of things.

Yeah.

And it got lots of people to be like, whoa, I'm not that healthy. I'm in that high risk category. I'm in a place where I'm scared of, you know, normal things now, where my immune system probably isn't functioning.

Wow.

I need to look at this differently. And that can be a beautiful thing, that, that turning point, to be able to say what is more important than my health in life?

Nothing.

I've met billionaires before that were sick. They didn't care, didn't care about their money. They just wanted to get healthy. That's it. So if you look at it through that lens, like, what, what. What's the most important thing in your life? Is it the tv? Is it the iPad? Is it like, you know, is it the fancy car? Is it your job, you know, or is it your health so that you could be there for your family, so that you live long enough to see your children grow up and your grandchildren be there. All these things like that is where it becomes super empowering. Also, you are no longer a victim of your state of health or disease, really. You have the power to turn it all around like that. That word incurable is such bs, man. It's like nothing.

I mean, you just hit on so much gold right there. Because I remember I was the very first time I had spoken with Kelly Brogan, M.D. she's a holistic psychiatrist, and she brought up this quote from Krishnamurti, which I've said multiple times, but it hits on exactly what you just said. It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society and just like, let that land for a second. You know, this podcast is not about swimming in the darkness. It's about acknowledging that the darkness exists and then having a profound, inspiring place that we bring light to it from. Otherwise, we'll just be swimming in the darkness. You and I would just be sitting here complaining about things which ain't going to do shit. That's not going to do anything to heal people. I wonder the juxtaposition on the other side of that duality where we. You have done an incredible job painting when the kids get sick, that's when things change. When you get kids that are having type 2 diabetes, when you get kids that are having cognitive decline, when you get kids that are having autism. And the record numbers, not just that, skin issues, digestive issues. Just absolutely insane that a child or even adolescent or teenager or young adult should be experiencing that. I experienced it, by the way, in the 80s. I had massive sinusitis issues, sinus surgeries. I didn't know I had a dairy, a lactose, basically, resistance. So is it an education issue or is it an inspiration issue, or is it both? Does the snake eat its tail on that one? Is it the chicken before the egg?

You know, honestly, I think it's both. I think it's. It's one of these things that, you know, this day and age, you have such access to information out there. And I know there's a lot of powers out there. They're trying to, like, you know, really shut this up and. And keep those on top.

It's going to crack their ivory towers if they let it go rampant.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you saw it in the censorship of everything going on during the pandemic of smart people and doctors that. Are doctors being censored. Yeah.

Stanford. Harvard doctors being shut down on Twitter because. Because of misinformation. What the.

No, that's wild. And you get, like, public health officials that never seen a patient before in their life telling these doctors who are so seeing it on the ground, doing it, experiencing it, studying it, researching it. No, you need to shut up and we're going to shut you up. Like, that was just wild. That's not medicine. Right. But like you said, so many doctors.

But like you said, that was the gift of the pain of 2020. That was the gift of the pain.

Absolutely.

For those that are conscious, people are.

Waking up to it. Like, how can you be telling doctors? And like, I understand there's a huge force behind it, but again, let's look at the numbers then just show me the data. But are we getting healthier or not? Like, that's a really easy number. We just talked about all these things, Right. You could talk about 60 plus percent chronic disease. You know, even you look at something like fertility. Supposedly by 2050, the majority of people will need IBS to have a child. Can't. Like, we're going into, like, children of men status of things where we may not be able to have children soon. Like, come on. These are incredibly big things. These are apocalyptic, you know, events that we're talking about here that can happen very soon.

Yeah.

I'm all for looking at the problems in the world, like climate change. I think you can link every single one of those problems to health. We are the microbiome of the world. If we are unhealthy, the world is unhealthy. If we are unhealthy, we don't care that we use plastic everywhere, that we corrupt it with chemicals. I don't want to put chemicals in my body. I won't give my money to people that produce chemicals. Yeah, that then go into the environment and kill it. We're part of the environment. Like, that's the weird thing. We detach ourselves from nature and say, that's nature. And we're over here. Like, no, we are one and the same. You want to be in, you know, Eco Warrior, Start with yourself, start with your health.

I mean, to me, what you're touching on is a fairly philosophical concept. And I mean, from looking at your media and looking at your Instagram and just feeling the essence of you right now, I can tell it's safe to go here. The philosophy of this is, this is a spiritual war. This is a war on consciousness. And the only way that you defeat a war on consciousness isn't by fighting what's making you less conscious. It's that you just empower yourself and be more conscious. So if you had to say a handful of things to someone that's maybe hearing some of these concepts for the very first time. Like, as you're speaking, they're writing stuff down, they're looking it up online, they're, what is the consciousness nutrition. What should we be feeding our minds and our bodies right now to go the other way from the war on consciousness instead of trying to fight it? Yeah.

I'll start with this, because if you throw a lot of people like all the things they could do, it becomes overwhelming. They don't go there.

Right.

I've seen it a lot, and there was a wonderful stat I saw recently. If you made just 1% improvement every day for a year, at the end of the year, you'd be 37 times better as a whole because of that 1%. So if you just improve 1% every day, don't think you have to change so much in one day. Don't think if you can't sleep, you're eating poorly, you have these symptoms and you're fatigued and everything that you need to change that within a month. The reality of the story is you've probably been leading up to that for years and years. So it's going to take some time to unravel. But that's okay, because if you use that compounding kind of improvement stage, you will be 37 times healthier by the end of the year. Just doing one small thing every single day. And that's where I say start. Incredibly small. Start with a deep breath. Too many of us are in a very sympathetic nervous state. We don't breathe in deep enough.

You're speaking my language.

And therefore we become, you know, poorly oxygenated. Our tissue is poorly oxygenated. That leads to disease, that leads to acidic environment where pathogens could live, where our immune system goes down, all of these things. That's really, really simple. There's zero dollar input. There's a few seconds of actual effort into taking a deep breath and doing that over for a few times and move on from there. After you get a few deep breaths in, have some quality water, hydrate yourself. Don't go for the Diet Coke. That stuff's crap. Don't listen to anybody about, like, hey, here's the newest, coolest. Like, you don't even have to turn to the supplements at first. You'll get there. Yeah, you will get there.

So ignore Beyonce when she's holding up the Coke or the Pepsi.

Yes, absolutely. Ignore everything on tv. That's your best bet.

Step number two, turn off your television.

Turn off your television and put your phone away at least a few hours a day.

Which is funny because if you look at the etymology behind the word television, tell a vision. It's telling someone else's vision. So it's enrolling us unconsciously, by the way, many times in someone else's vision of what life should be like. You should have this watch, this ring, these clothes. You should look this way, eat this food, and it Happens so young. You remember the Flintstones commercial where, you know, Barney and him were smoking and then the cam, oh, my doctor smokes Camels. They're better than other brand. It's like we are. We are literally a young teenager as a collective.

Oh, yeah.

And I believe that in Congress one day. I'm curious how you feel about this. If you have any friends in Congress or if you have any friends in policy change in medicine, they might. Might have told you something. We already had big tobacco in Congress, in court. We're going to have big food and maybe in multiple cases. We already have. We're going to have insurance companies. We've had social media, we've had big tech in front of Congress. All these people are essentially having to pay the piper at some point. So at what point are we as a collective going to rise and say, no more. No more of this. Yeah.

It's still going to take some time and some effort. But again, I think you're seeing it happen. We are in a spiritual revolution right now. People understand that. Listen, what's the most important thing to you again? Is it health and happiness or is.

It, you know, it's time with my loved ones.

That's it. Right. And you want to do that in a state where you could really appreciate it, be there. That's what you should put on, you know, at the pinnacle of everything you do. You know, if. If we are talking about, hey, how do we set goals, how do we have purpose and everything? Like, we got to put something there. What is it should be health, happiness, spend time with loved ones, these sort of things. We need to do that. And unfortunately, sometimes that takes a lot. It takes hitting rock bottom. This is why I love rock bottom. I've spoken to enough patients that have hit real rock bottom where they didn't think they'd live through the year. I've spoken to enough patients that were young where they're just like, I'm just gonna take my life because this is not worth it anymore. I've spoken those people, and they can look back now and say, that was the best point. That was my turning point. You know, that was when everything started to change and when you start with that. So understanding that rock bottoms could be an amazing place to be, you don't have anywhere else to go. In a sense, that's why some people actually believe that just coasting by in a bad state but never actually hitting rock bottom is a curse.

That's probably the worst thing ever.

Worst thing, because you never really feel.

The bottom of the barrel of the pain.

No. And that's what we love to do. We'll just medicate ourselves enough so that we don't hit the bottom, but we won't ever get out of there. We won't empower ourselves to lift ourselves up by the bootstraps and make our way up towards real healing and happiness and what we deserve really in life.

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You know, for me, my rock bottom was more on it is a health challenge. Let me be straight because it was mental. You know, it was, it was just frying myself out, like being in a state where I was just depressed, where I just didn't want to get out of bed, you know, where I had to go to therapy and do those sort. But it was, I look back, I bless that moment. It taught me so much about myself. It made me jump into fear, do these things like, you know, start to really evaluate myself who am I started to like, that's a beautiful question to ask. I think you should ask yourself that every day.

Yeah.

Who am I? What is my purpose here on this earth? And you don't have to answer it and get depressed. Like it isn't. Like the first day I asked, I was like, I am this person. This is my purpose. And no, it took repetition. It took real, real deep evaluation of myself. It took going into the depths of my mind and understanding that we were spiritual people. But it led me to amazing things, to reaching for books. I probably never would have gone there for what's one. Oh, I think someone like David Hawkins, power versus force was really, really good. Understanding that what goes on in here dictates everything out there. Yes, right. That, that if you are in guilt, shame, these lower consciousness emotions, you will be stuck in a lower consciousness world where that just attracts everything to you. And he, he kind of put it in this very scientific non. Woo, woo. He's a psychiatrist, you know, studied thousands of people.

Did you get into letting go Hawkins work?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another beautiful one after that. That's my second favorite. Sometimes people flip that, letting that.

That's on repeat for me. Probably once a month I'll tune in and just listen in the truck. Just a couple chapters. Because it reminds me that I'm not a slave to the thoughts that I have. I have the thoughts. I am not those thoughts. And that's really interesting. We look at medicine, like you said, a lot of the patients that come in, they, oh, I am type 2 diabetes. I am a chronic heart disease patient. It's like, hold on. The language you're using is casting a spell on your subconscious mind that is making you attach your identity to this fucking disease. You don't. You literally are not type 2 diabetes. It might be occupying it, you might have in a little bag, but it's not who you are. Is that what came through for yourself mentally? Were you anxiety? Were you depression?

What were you. It was all of it. It, you know, it was, it was depression. Like once you reach there, it's, it's sort of this medley of like, you're just anxious about things. You're trying to like focus on something you can't, you know, it was, it was bad. You can't sleep then, right? Then it turns into this physical thing. You're not eating as much. Like, these are things I went through. I'm, I'm proud to say I went through that and came out the other side. Like some people would be like, oh, it's a Weakness to talk about that.

Like, no, that is strength now, because everybody deals with it anyways. They just don't speak it.

Exactly. And that's why I think there's also this level, like, we gotta be truly compassionate about people. Understand we're all going through our own shit. Right. Each and every one of us. It's the idea, like, when I'm driving and someone cuts me off, I could get really pissed and start yelling and cursing and ruin my day. Or I could say, man, maybe that guy is rushing to his father's bedside because he's dying right now. Maybe that's why he cut me off. I don't know. I can't presume. But I'd rather think that and think the best of people, then start cursing and trying to, like, run them off the road or something. Like, that's just wild. But we do it all the time, right? We turn to the negative. We turn to lower consciousness easily.

I notice I go into lower thought forms and lower behavioral patterns when I'm super tired, when I've been too stimulated, or when I'm carrying some kind of existential tension or pressure that needs to be released through a ceremony or through breath work.

Yeah.

In other words, when my. When my allostatic load's super high and I'm not nourished, that's when I tend to snap at my partner, snap at people. Like, the best thing we can possibly do, which is maybe the. The whole purpose of NAD is like, fuel the system in a way that it's naturally wanting to be fueled. So if. If NAD plus comes into the system and we. We make it, we eat it through natural foods. We do is like, we can. You could essentially go out there and get probably all of it or maybe most of it by eating a perfect diet. Like, perfect diet. Mitigating stress, doing all the things, EMF blocking, like. But the average person probably isn't going to do that, which is why the company even exists in the first place.

Absolutely.

How does that plug in? It makes us harder to kill mentally and physically.

Yeah. You know, perfect. I live in a cave. You can probably see that. Right? And. And this comes back, what you just said is, you know, for addiction, it's halt. Right. They say it's when you're hungry, angry, lonely, tired, that you're at your weakest to basically fall back.

For me, it's tired.

Right.

I get like an angry bear.

I. I could do all of those at once. Right. And everyone knows that. Right. It's like, damn, I'm hungry now.

I'm angry.

I'm kind of lonely, you know, and now I'm tired. So it's like you could run through those quickly, but that is when you're going to snap and do things or you do the opposite, which is nothing. You sit and put on Netflix and just veg and just sit, you know, just kind of marinate in your own hungry, angry load of this entireness. Yeah.

Yeah.

What I've realized, Josh, is that when. When you break these things down into. Why is it that people aren't taking more action to improve their state? It's vitality, it's energy. If you don't have it, you're not going to do it. I've been there before, like I want to do. So I just don't have the energy. And this is patience. Also, with someone going through a chronic disease, a lot of the times they would love to go to the gym. They have no energy. They could barely get out of bed. So how are they going to go to the gym if you don't have the energy, the vitality to even walk down the hallway to the bathroom sometimes, like, you need that. That's why it was so vital for us to say, what gives you that? What not only gives you the brain power to make the right choices and gives you the extra energy, but what would give all the cells that sort of energy? So you have that vitality. So you have that. Pick me up. So you don't need five cups of coffee every day. Yeah, like that. That. That is not the answer. Right. And that's, again, where nad was so, so important. And honestly, at the time of making this was like, you know, almost 10 years into making this supplement. We knew about any.

Why so long?

You know, I. I have to say, the technology was not up to date. There were very few sources of NAD for a very long time. Very few. There still are. By the way, it was incredibly expensive. Very few were using it. So, you know, it would cost you hundreds of dollars to buy, you know, pills. And this is the reason why the IVs are so expensive. Also, it is an expensive compound, and you want to get it to a high purity level, 95, 99, you know, or above, for it to truly have an impact. As with everything in health, I believe it really relies on quality. If you go low quality, it's like you drive a really nice car. Are you going to put crappy gas in it, or are you going to use premium, actually spend more? Everyone gets it with cars. Right. Somehow, or we get it with, you know, clothes and TVs. We buy the expensive ones. Who needs the crappy one, right? Yeah, you put money into that. Same thing. Goes with anything health related, especially supplements. So when we were looking at like, we had to find someone that actually do this, and we weren't just doing nad, we realized, and my father knew this early on, you know, supplements are like meals, they're like recipes. You can't just throw a piece of steak, as good as it is on a plate and be like, here you go, pay me a lot for that. You wouldn't walk into a restaurant, maybe some people, but you want the seasoning on it too. You want some sides with it, you want a whole experience. A nicely plated, well cooked, seasoned everything steak. That's what makes it the Michelin star recipe. Supplements are the same way. I'm not knocking the single one. You could absolutely do that. Sometimes we need a little magnesium, sometimes we need those NACs and others of the world, the glutathiones alone. But if you want synergy, if you want comprehensiveness along with that main core ingredient, that steak, that's what we had to look at. And that's why it took so long. If I was like a mad scientist trying to wrap up what the ratio, what will this look like? How is this all going to fit into a capsule? How is this going to be bioavailable? Which was something that was questioned for a long time. Can you take any DE orally, like, yes. No. The 82 study that shows hydrolyzed and broken up and cleaved into these little pieces. And then you had things like NR and precursors that were a little easier. It's only one or two cleaves. You hydrolyze that into nam, riboside, other pieces of it, and it reformulates and takes pieces to form NAD. But when you really got into the research beyond 1982 on lab rats, you start to see a different picture. You started to see that NAD can be broken up in the intestines, reformulated altogether, and doesn't need to pull anything else out of that. And if you included that with other ingredients, glycine, thiamine, coenzyme Q10, it starts to even preserve it more. It's more bioavailable going directly to the brain. And then there's even more recent studies, that kind of counter that. There's a 2019 study of NMN, which is interesting now that the FDA wants it off the market in a sense, and that's a whole other story. But you know, NMN, there is a gene called SLC12A8. And basically they realize that this gene in people acts as a transporter of NMN without breaking it up at all. And so that's your second biggest. That's the next one in line to NAD. Is there something like that over the last 20, 30 years? We haven't seen that allows that transport directly. You don't even need to break apart the car and put it back together in the bloodstream.

So just so I'm hearing you correctly there, you can take just the NAD plus on its own, but it's way less bioavailable unless you have other things attached to it.

Yes.

You need other compounds to attach to it so it can make it through the hcl, so it can actually pass through the barrier, so your body can absorb it.

It's going to pass through the barrier. But how effic is that? And how much will be wasted? In a sense, that was the question of it. So things like glycine. And even looking at the studies of coenzyme Q10, another incredibly vital one with NAD supplementation, there's a 2018 study out of Spain that showed 80 women were put on NAD plus and coenzyme Q10 supplementation. They had chronic fatigue syndrome. And they studied their resting heart rate was the number one thing, because usually chronic fatigue, higher resting heart rate, unlike athletes who have lower and do not fatigue as easily.

Yeah, yeah.

And then they looked at those other parameters of pain, sleep, and fatigue as well. And after eight weeks against a placebo, you saw greatly improved levels of alertness and energy with the mixture of the two. And also that resting heart rate was much lower.

What's the science on that? What's the true science when you take the NAD Plus? And is it specifically the Coq 10, or is it because, you know how a lot of companies, they'll say, oh, it's the synergistic blend, right? Yeah. You could come on this pot and be like, hey, it's a synergistic blend, y'. All. You have to buy our stuff. Or you could just tell us the science. So what is it really about the transporter?

Honestly, I wish I knew more about the science that I could tell you definitively why that is.

This is why you hired scientists, this.

Is why I hired scientists, and this is why my father's around. He's the. He's the mad scientist behind it all. Listen, I think with anything that you look at that in life, it is a synergistic evaluation of it. It is. How does your body use Things together to then optimize itself. Never alone. There are a thousand other compounds. Of course, coenzyme Q10 is really important alone as well. And that's. But. But nothing in nature really works that way. Right?

Yeah.

You look at what we do with pharmaceutical drugs. We look at a natural compound that has thousands of other chemicals along with it, and then we break it down to one compound, synthesize it, make it into a drug, sell it to you. You, Ambien, valerian root. That's where it came like. Right. And it just falls down the line. You isolate.

I've never thought of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A lot of them are like that. I think still, 60 to 70% of all drugs start with just studying a plant or flower.

And a lot of the really expensive ones come from the Amazon.

Yes.

And then they try to mimic.

Because you have so many different species there. Right. And they're still studying it. And that's the beauty. And this is where I. I think NAD is still. Like you said, societies this adolescent like NAD alone. And then understanding the brain alone. These are like infants. Right. We still don't even understand this. I do find it interesting that so many doctors now are using NAD ivs, you know, it's become very popular. Right. They're not using Precursor IVs, they're using that one. They want the whole thing there, which means something also, you know, here, nr, ivs, NMN ivs. That's. That's just not necessary because they want the actual compound. That is the end goal of all these things anyway, you know, nmn, nr. And all you're trying to do is boost nad. In the end, we said, why not give the whole thing? We know it's expensive. We get it. We are cutting into our bottom line. And if marketer came to us, they'd be like, hell, no. Your supplement has to start at this cost, and then we have to mark it up this much to be successful. Well, we're not marketers. And I mean, we started as a clinic that is still our bread and butter is treating really tough cases, patients around the world. We just saw what can we do to help people also and kind of take what we're seeing in the clinic and provide it to other people that are suffering or that want to optimize. This makes sense to me. Again, medicine doesn't have to sit in a bubble and say, are you really sick? You're not. Sorry, we got nothing for you. Right. That. That's what medicine is unfortunately doing. That's why, again, I love biohacking because it's saying, make it available to everyone and just move on up towards health.

I mean, shout out to this clinic here in Austin. It's called Alive and well. It's Liz and Michael that own it. I don't know if you've been there, but you gotta check it out the next time you're in Austin. And I did the. The treatment where they took my blood and they fed it through red light therapy, and it was called. No. B2, something like that. You know what I'm talking about? Somebody's. Somebody's typing in right now, but. EBO2.

Thank you. Yeah.

So EBO2. And I was actually watching my blood get clean.

Yeah.

And when they pulled out the little canister, there was all these bubbles and crap in it. And I gotta tell you, for two days I was laid out.

Yeah.

So it told me that my blood was very dirty, essentially. So there's one aspect where we clean the filtration and washing system in the body and we do liver detoxifications. You know, we address the body systems that actually provide it energy in and detox and bad things out. And then there's another way that I want you to explain to us where the majority of people that come across NAD, they go to IVs. They tend to go to IVs. And that was even my question before I wanted to do the podcast in Integrity. I was like, okay, let me try the product. Do I feel something? Absolutely. Let me go do an IV and then let me do the capsules. The IV was interesting because the iv, it made me feel completely different than the capsules. And honestly, for some people, they shouldn't actually be doing the IVs. There are some, I guess you could say, unintended deleterious consequences of doing the NAD plus iv. You don't have to get the IV to get all the benefits of something you can get in a capsule, which is so awesome because the IVs can be very expensive. 150, 200, no problem for an IV. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And here's the thing, Josh. It's. It's also. It's. It's a tough treatment in some ways because if you've ever experienced, like, you could have tightness of chest, you could have stomach issues during it. You're flushing, you got to go slow. So that could be like, listen, I'm okay with it. For me, it was kind of like this anxiety tightness that I got before jumping out of a plane. And I kind of like it. You know, it's like exciting for me when I get in there, I'm like, weirdo, weirdo. Know. I know. Okay. Most people despise it, actually. They. They feel like a tightness and sometimes stomach, you're flushing with lots of energy. Suddenly you know it's going in, it's causing these reactions and that's why you got to watch out. Also, if you do that and your cells are not properly and suddenly you expunge a bunch of toxins because the cells couldn't do that before. Yes, yes, you will have a. I don't like to call it a Herc's reaction, but yes, similar.

And what is a Hertz reaction?

So a Herxheimer reaction, really in the medical terminology, it's a serious condition where you detox very quickly and a lot of that die off a lot of the toxins. Vomiting. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it hurts. When you speak to medical people, it's more even a cardiac event. You got to be very careful. That's why a lot of times this idea of a detox reaction, a Herx reaction, get mixed up. I still call it a Hercs. It's just a minor Herx in a sense. It's not something deadly. But yeah, you are basically pushing so many toxins out at once, your body can't handle it. You'll get headaches, fatigue, energy. It's too much. Right. It's like if you were cleaning up your house, got a bunch of garbage, you haven't done a spring cleaning a really long time, you just go, wow. You start cleaning everything, but you can't even get all of it out on the same day.

Yeah.

It's like you don't have the door with to like bring in that huge dumpster, like throw everything out. So it's going to be like kind of messy. It's going to be a lot of chaos going on in your part until you could get it all out one at a time. And that's why for you probably also EBOO or EBO2 type of thing is similar.

Yeah.

You know, you're just doing a kill off of things. You're cleansing the blood. Anything that rock, it does. We have that. It's wonderful. For a lot of pathogenic mold toxicity, Lyme patients, all of that, it's great. Then you add in the NAD also and you provide the energy to keep detoxing and then improve cell regeneration in the brain and basically restore the brain. And it actually has this ability to be neuroproductive, decrease inflammation. So the interesting thing about the brain also is we don't have pain receptors. You don't feel like, you know, if the brain is inflamed, you won't feel pain. Like if your muscles are inflamed, your ligament, any other area, when you get inflammation, there's a sign, pain. The brain doesn't have that. What does it do? Brain fog? You start losing concentration. So inflammation is, is a big issue. You have tons of neurotoxins out there in the world that enter our body. Look at technology, the use of all these things. Cadmium, lead, everything like that. I drove over here in a Tesla. I saw on the side of the road, a Tesla that was actually gotten an accident, was on fire. That thing is loaded with heavy metals that are now out in the air, that are now just around, you know, in the environment and that are entering our bodies. And those are really tough ones to deal with. And where do they go as a neurotoxin? The brain. And that causes inflammation and it may be low grade at first. Your body can compensate again. But that's going to cause brain fog issues and may actually go into the chronic side of different diseases that we know, dementia and others.

It's really interesting you mentioned that. I've also, I remember I was talking with Chris Kresser about this and when you go through a rapid wave loss, like people that tap actually into the brown fat, that's where a lot of the different fungicides and herbicides and all the crap gets stored in that deep brown fat. Liposomal tissue. Is it liposomal tissue?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the adipose and.

Yeah, adipose. So when we, so when we're doing. That's why we should always follow the rules of nature and do things slowly. If people are doing crash diets and they're rapidly losing weight, they could actually experience severe detox symptoms when burning through that brown fat. Have you seen that?

Oh, yeah. There's a flip side to that also that my father and others have talked about is that your body won't allow you to do that. It will preserve by any cost so you don't lose weight. I've known people like this just go to the gym and everything and do that. And this is also, it goes for fertility. If you are an incredibly, you know, and you're right, toxins in general are stored in adiposetic fat tissue, connective tissue. It's, it's easy to go there, right? It stores there. And so if you were to get rid of that, suddenly the body may not be able to handle and it knows that the body is incredible self healing mechanism that will do anything to preserve your health and keep you alive. Think about cryo, right. Suddenly the blood rushes to the middle to preserve all the vital organs. You don't have to think about that. It's doing that to keep you alive.

I feel that in the cold tank.

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. That's the point of it. You put that in a stressor, it actually helps the body. Right. And it provides new, you know, aptosis and everything is getting rid of the old cells. It's. It's great for that. If you were in a sick position, I don't know if it'd be so good because your body may not be able to handle that much. Yeah. And that's the same thing here. If you look at it, the body is trying to preserve. So sometimes it'll say if we release all this, I don't know if we'll be able to deal with it. It, we have to do something else. Burn it off of somewhere else. Right. Or just not allow it. And it's a really interesting thing. When you look at people that are overweight that smoke, it's very hard. Even if you don't eat, go to the gym and everything. Again, you're. You're increasing the toxic load going into the adipose tissue, fat tissue and then you're asking the body to burn it off and release all that toxin. Again. It is preserving your health and your ability to function. Basically by saying no, we're not going to do it. And again, same thing for fertility. If you have a heavily toxic. We've seen this all the time at our clinic. People come in, they're married. Someone has a toxic condition, usually it would be the wife. In this case has the toxic conditioned or a condition that includes high toxicity. And they've been trying, they can't. But they are there to address the. Whatever diagnosis they have. You put them on a detox regimen, you start to improve them, you start to do regenerative therapies. Whatever their personalized program treatment is that gets them better, they start feeling better. Great. Guess what doc, I'm pregnant. Like boom. It just ha. They didn't even expect it because you gave. Then you created an environment that is clean, that the body says now we can replicate. Now we can do this and do it in the right way. That doesn't put the child at risk of all these toxins.

The body's a lot smarter than our egoic mind thinks.

We are so much stupider than our bodies.

That's why that's why it's called innate intelligence, because the bo. Like, look at when it's. I'm, you know, a father of two, when a child comes into the world, it's such a magical, insane event. You're like, how does the body know how to do that? Yeah, how does the. How do we know? How does our body know how to defecate? How does our body know how to release water? How does our body know. How does our, our body know how to do all these voluntary and involuntary things like breath, for example? You and I can pull a lever. We can consciously breathe or spirit intelligence of our body. Whether you're spiritual or scientific, it's the same thing.

Same.

It knows how to do things without us doing anything. So from that lens, I'm really curious about this, from that lens of supporting the involuntary systems, things that occur autonomically with the ans. How do you, how specifically does nad help that system? We know, we already know it's the energy substrate, but how else.

Yeah, I think when you break it down again and look at what the body needs, it needs information and energy. Information is the guiding course of all of this. Right. And so when you increase the energy output, you're able to have more proper information communication. Cell to cell communication was all about like, that's something they also don't teach too much in medicine. We always look for something, is there cell to cell communication happening in the body, which then is really the regulator nas automatic nervous system ans. Right. And so many people are out of whack with that. That's something you could do with heart rate variability to check or anything where you're in a completely sympathetic state, usually high, you know, stress levels, everything you don't have balanced ans is off. Information is poor cell, so you backtrack it as well. But if you provide the, the actual energy to each cell, especially within the brain, then you start to have proper communication again. They have the energy to communicate, to regenerate, and that cascades into. Will your nervous system properly work as well. So it starts on this very minute level. You could go beyond even the cell and say, this is all about information. Everything is information. Whether you look at that from the quantum realm or, you know, the spiritual realm, it really is, yeah, information. And that's the one missing piece I think we always forget about. And that's whenever you consume anything, it has information within it. What's the quality of information it's giving your body? I will say it's like IKEA instructions, right? Like Some are really complex. You're not going to be able to make sense of it, right. If there are tons of toxins every, you're going to be sitting there for hours. Like it doesn't look like the picture at all. You're just like, I give up on this piece. Right.

Wow.

Whereas if you provide with high quality things that it requires for every cell to do, it starts to provide it with the right information as well. So everything you do, listen, here's a little tip. If you're going to do this, and you don't have to be a religious person, but before you take any supplement, keep in your palm and bless it. Don't just bless, just say, you know, thank you, Say a blessing, a prayer if you want, if you are that way, and then ingest it. And I know this is going to sound like crazy and out there and everything, but you are providing even higher quality information as well. You know, do that with your water as well. And these are, you know, little things that I, I say, listen, even if you don't believe it, right, Try what's, what's the worst that could happen? And I think that is information. You're giving yourself information. Number one. These are healing me. Your, your mind picks up. Healing me. Heal, heal, heal. That's what it's picking up. It's not, I'm sick, sick, sick, sick, Right? That's what conventional medicine will tell you. You're sick. You're going to have this sickness forever. And here are pills to deal with your sickness. You just hurt, sick, sick, sick forever. That's what your body registers.

Well, when you speak to me, your voice box, which is by the way, fueled by water in some way that's part of its fuel source, then that vibrates over to me. Then you experience me speaking, and then whatever you hear from me goes into your brain and out in like literally a micro millisecond. And then you decide whether or not what I'm saying is true based on your, your life experience, your anatomy, how it's functioning, and like you said, the information that the system is giving and receiving to itself. So that's pretty wild to think about that. There's so much going on even right now with somebody listening and watching and connecting with us. Like they can feel the truth in their cells. They know when something isn't true. They know it on some level. We've all experienced that feeling where we meet a scientist or we meet somebody who's super credible and there's just that one thing, you know what I mean? Where we can't. They seem great on paper, but that there's just something that's not right. It's because the intelligence in our body is giving us a signal. Hey, the information you're receiving, it's not actually good for us. It's not actually good for this system. So from that vantage point, is NAD a conductor of the information, or is it a conductor of the information and it's a substrate for fuel?

It's both. It is both. As, as are most things. There isn't a singular, you know, kind of the characteristic of this coenzyme. In a sense, it is so essential. But I, I truly believe, and you know, research would have to go out on information of it all as well.

I like the, I like the metaphor of information. It makes sense.

Well, we live in an information age. Yeah. Like, this is the whole thing. People aren't understanding everything we do. Our cell phones are just information packets of information are all around us right now being sent out into the world. We may not see it, but if we saw beyond just a limited spectral view of wavelengths, we would, we'd start with that and that.

What if we could.

What if Wild man. No, no, no. We would, we would go crazy.

We could float above and look at all the information. It'd probably be like, literally overload.

I feel like that's the next, like, thing. In like thousands a year. We will be that. Like you look at aliens and why, like conceptualized idea, why they have such large brains? Because they see so much beyond the spectral. Like, we see so little. Right. There are things right now. And again, if you saw it, you probably. Your mind wouldn't be ready for it. Sure. Because it's just things flying around, emf, you know, all this stuff from ultraviolet beyond and radio waves. Right. I think about. You could just tune in right now. Cell waves, everything out there. And that's part of it also is we are bombarded by energy and information whether we see it or not. How do we cope with that? Is it actually hurting ourselves? In many ways it is. It's flying through our bodies at incredible rates. And we're not used to this. I mean, as, again, take a macro view of humans. Cell phones have only been around, what, 20 or so years? Right. Even the idea of radio waves, energy, electricity, this is a, a speck of sand in our existence on a beach. And so I think we're rapidly trying to cope with this change and we're not quite there yet. So we have to give ourselves a better ability to deal with it and that's something. This supplement and so many others. I'm not saying, like, hey, this is the answer to everything. There is no such thing as the cure or the answer. There are many out there. But this is absolutely helping in being able to deal with and compensate and optimize what we have created in our environment. So I, I think it's, it's really, really important that we kind of, you know, take steps back and be able to say, hey, yeah, we, we got this amazing, you know, kind of world around us, but it's also taking a lot out of us. How do we then compensate? How do we cope with that better? How do we include things that are already in nature that we can give to ourselves in an easy way that allow us to function properly and be in this world and actually use it to our best ability?

There's some natural foods out there. Like, I love the honesty. You're like, look, you don't have to buy my stuff, but it's easier. It's just straight up easier. Oh, yeah, like all the things that we're doing every day. And I'll just paint a very quick picture here. Coffee, emf, cns, stimulants of crazy amounts in our society. And not just like smoking, which, you know, people forget that. Like nicotine, which, by the way, nicotinamide. That's interesting. Maybe we can chat about that. Nicotine is a stimulant. Anything that brings our nervous system to a higher rate or a higher frequency has to be held by the sympathetic branch, otherwise we would kill ourselves. That's why the branch exists. So from that stance, if we have all these things that are essentially oxidizing our internal self and nad, would you classify NAD as an antioxidant or is that a separate thing?

You know, I know people don't in the scientific world in some ways, but I probably would in many ways because of that electron chain transfer and the ability for it to. To kind of connect to different pieces through that. Yeah. And clear them out. So. And absolutely, it's doing that for things like alcohol, drugs, oxidative stress in general. So. Yes, in, in a.

Because it helps to clean out alcohol and pharmaceuticals.

Yeah.

At a 2 to 1 ratio.

Yeah.

But you mentioned the 2 to 1 ratio earlier where it takes two molecules of the NAD plus to take out one molecule of oxygen or pharmaceuticals. So if we have all this input going on, whether it's external or EMF or food, then essentially we need some kind of scrubbing mechanism. But we also need the fuel source to deal with the Demand. So there's a juxtaposition there where I don't, I don't think I. At least in my research and talking to you, it doesn't feel like it's a cleaning agent. It feels like it's a fuel source and a conductor.

It's a fuel source, number one, to allow your body to do what it does, which is clean itself. Right. And that, that again, if you think about it from a macro perspective, the body, we have organs in elimination. Our liver, lymphatic system, kidneys, even GI and skin can be. But those main three, I would say, are the ones that are dedicated purely to detoxification. Then if you look at every cell needs detox. It needs, you know, the cell membrane pushes things in and out. If it doesn't have the energy, it's like saying, like to the garbage man, we're not paying you today. They won't work. Yeah, cell will just build up. You'll have cellular waste. You won't have proper regeneration. You'll have dirty cells in a sense. Right. That aren't doing their job. If the enough of those cells start to do that, you have disease, you have symptomology. You know, you may have cancer over a certain time. If they become truly mutagenic and start to attack themselves. In some ways you may have autoimmune disease. Like, there's so many things that this could be an initiation point for that you have to say, this is pretty damn important. It's. It's ourselves again. It's the building blocks. It's everything. And that's why when people take this, it's first and foremost, you know, we have, we have hundreds and hundreds of, of reviews and, you know, thousands of users out there and tons of doctors also using it.

Is it more of the, the doctors and the, in the medicine community or.

It started that way just because we were a medical clinic and we wanted to test those things. Yeah, they needed it and we really wanted to put it to the challenge. We're like, we get it. Like, there's a lot of people out there saying, you can't use NAD in this. Like, don't. We were the first one, I believe, out there that was really, truly using top quality, searched. We had to find high purity and said, let's do this, but let's not put it out into the market for at least a year or two. Let's try it out on Parkinson's patients, let's try it out als, let's try out dementia. Let's try it out in the neurodegenerative Lyme cases where they have true. And let's see what doctors say. You know, let's put them to the test. Let them be the barometer.

What do they say?

Amazing things. And again, I. I think there are different levels of it. Some more nuance. This is a supplement, Right. When you're talking about something like Parkinson's, you can't expect it to cure. I'm not saying that whatsoever.

Yeah.

I am saying we have doctors that we have, and we have, you know, these quotes from them. They wrote it and said it to us. That saw a great reduction in tremors, saw the gait suddenly improve of them moving after four weeks and nothing else would change. You know, so it's things like that. And we saw it at our own clinic, too. We wanted to not just take the word of other doctors, even though of course we trust them, but we saw it at our clinic, too. People that were doing NAD infusion. Wow, this is great. And then we stop. We put them on the. The supplement itself. All right, this is. This is good, too. I'm seeing an improvement. I am picking up on things easier. Things that used to evade me as far as memory. Where did I put that? I'm clicking words that I used to pause on. I'm getting. And again, I think even Dave Asprey said he's a user. For him, it's nuanced. Now he's on so many things and he's trying. And when he include. He said it was the nuanced pieces of a improved mitochondria. Right. That he's seeing a little bit more of that. So even that, to me, is a win because most people that go on vitamins don't feel too much.

Yeah.

You're just kind of, you know, trying to give yourself a good position for feeling better in the very long run of things and everything else. You're not going to usually get so much of a boost from these things. But here you heard lots of people saying, I don't need that second, third cup of coffee anymore.

It's amazing because my world was rocked on the science front. I had always assumed that you have to get NAD plus from an iv and that's why I even talked to your team and we had a couple calls. I was like, like, okay, so let me really take a look at this. And the science is pure. Like, the science is legit. Why do you think there's still so much confusion about NAD sublingual versus NAD iv? Where's that come from?

Part of it's money, to be honest. Like, really quickly look at NMN right now, and it's being taken off the market, or at least threatened to take it off market by fda. Most people are asking, well, why is that?

If it's a precursor, anytime FDA wants to take something off market, market, it's probably pretty good.

But listen to the story. So In December of 2021, a company, a pharmaceutical company called Biotech, Metropolitan Biotech, I believe you could look that up. But it. It basically sent a letter to the FDA on December 1, 2021 that said, we've been re researching this M and M molecule for a while. We believe it's a drug, and we would like the FDA to look into this and basically classify it as a drug. That was it. That was like a really simple letter. But at the top of the letter, actually, there was something really interesting. It showed the FDA docket where the FDA looked into nac. And if you remember that debacle of everything in the early days or at the start of the pandemic, NAC was touted as something that kind of stopped the cytokine storm. And then Covid and all these. These things. And people were not happy with that as they weren't with other drugs. Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and others. The FDA started the investigation as to whether NAC is an unlisted drug. They got Amazon to strip all the products, anything nac. I remember our clinic was like, we use this on a lot of patients. It's good. It's great stuff. And you see we bought a year's worth from our supplier and we're like, oh, we better get in store. Nothing came of it. It just created a lot of fear. A lot of FUD fear, uncertainty and doubt. Yeah, Amazon stripped it. Big, you know, suppliers stripped it because they were listening to FDA going, no, no, no, nothing happened. But you see what happened. It's a precedent. Because now this company, this pharmaceutical company basically said, due to this precedent, which we are listing at the top, even before we say, dear fda, we listed that and sent it off. And the FDA listened because they're like, hey, that's the precedent. They are right. We have to investigate this now. We have to see whether this is it and who's got deeper pockets, the lobbyists, the big pharma or supplement companies. So right now there's this sort of fear that, you know, big pharma will come in, as they do, with a lot of things, and strip it. But I also think that's that's a great testament. You know, they realize, hey, this is really valuable.

Yeah.

And what we're trying to do, again they said we are NAD precursor company. They're looking at these precursors. Everyone's trying to get to nad. Unfortunately, I think it is also cost wise then. So you talk about that money. It's cost wise meaning nmn, nr, all these things are much cheaper. They are, they're easier to compound, they're much smaller molecules, everything else. So bottom line, the profits wouldn't be there. And if it's going to raise, which it will, I just contend that taking the actual thing is the best. Yeah, right. Precursors are good. Don't get me wrong. They absolutely do elevate. But again, if you're using an iv, you're not using precursors.

And what do you mean by that? Because that's kind of when my. When I researched. That's a big difference between Nadavim and other just straight producers of nad. Plus there's this, like you said, the transport, getting it through the hcl so the body can actually. So it can be bioavailable, so the body can actually consume it. There is something different about this because I got to tell you, I'm not going to say the brand names. I had a few. I've been to a lot of trade shows and they would just give me packets and I would say I actually had one that was really aggressive and I was like, I don't feel anything at all. I literally took your supplement for a month. I feel damn nothing. But with yours, I don't know if it's the Bacopa, the Coq 10 with the NAD, there's some kind of synergy that y' all have figured out in the lab where you can actually feel something, especially if you have a sensitive system. What is that all about?

I think it's the idea that first off we weren't looking to just capitalize on an ingredient alone as, as the main kind of point. NAD is wonderful. The precursors are great. If you elevate NAD levels, that's good. But it's just, it's it's whole body. Then it's saying every single cell uses this. Improve your cells. It's a pretty vague kind of thing. I agree with it in some ways, but it's, it's going to be somewhat kind of reductionist as to what is the outcome of this anti aging. Okay, but are you going to feel anti usually? Like how is that working or are you doing anything else with it?

Yeah.

So Our goal again when we saw it was lowest hanging fruit. People suffering from this idea of I can't focus, my brain isn't working as it used to, I need more cups of coffee just to think. We're living in an information age. We use our brain non stop. You know, every job almost uses it more and more. And you're required to use your brain throughout the day checking this multitasking, emails coming in, all needs processing by the brain. So we said focus on that. We like as a company, as a whole, as a clinic, I should say even more so. Focusing on systems, not symptoms. We want to focus on what is it? Look at brain. For all these other things you could say, what system of the body do we need to help? That's how you should see it. You could have millions of symptoms. You try to go one after one, right? Oh, is it a wet cough or a dry cough off? It's the lungs, man. It's the immune system. Like what systems is it right, yeah. Break it down to simple. Your body only has so many. It's, it's a beautifully complex thing. But if you broke it like if you made it look that way, it's simple. As these systems, your brain is the main computer of it all.

Yo, I can't let you go unless we talk about another elephant in the room. And that is alcohol. Yeah, because straight up, I'm not a big drinker. And honestly like shout out to a previous guest, moha, he took me out, we had some tequila. First time I've had tequila in a long time. I don't know, three or four months, six months.

Probably the best alcohol though.

Probably the best for an entire day from just two little shots. Like not a lot entire day. I was like lethargic. Was my NAD plus lowered? Was it siphoned out? In other words, you said earlier that it took two molecules of NAD plus to combat one molecule of alcohol or pharmaceuticals. Is that what I was experiencing? Is that quote, the hangover that nobody's talking about?

Yes and no meaning yes, you'll have the depletion, but the depletion also is then cascading into your cells, not working, your organs not working as well, your live on liver not detoxifying as quickly like all of that. Right. So if your, your cell in your brain as well doesn't have that energy as much to deal with things so you're not going to recover as quickly. Listen, we got athletes on this, like hey, I'm recovering quicker, like you know, my mental acuity is there. But so is my recovery time. Because of course we can't target where every single molecule of NAD is going to go. I think that's a really interesting thing that you could look at and use things like, you know, transcranial photobiomodulation to start to target, which we are looking at now. And using infrared light and kind of helmet, put it on, take the nad, and hopefully that, that actually gets it to go to a certain place.

Is that because it's attracted to the red light?

Yeah, there is a photo activation, like kind of of synthesis that happens there. So between IR and also ultraviolet, like these are the two areas, if you were to look at the spectrometry of nad, that they are most bioavailable and go to and actually like become activated in some ways. So it's really cool when you look at that. And even using things like intravenous laser therapy with an NADIV trip will be actually helping even more so. But that's what you're kind of, that is a part of this, the whole equation. There is the, of course, the, the, you know, you're in a completely dehydrated state as well. You know, it's probably the lack of sleep that goes along with it. And that's a big contributor too. NAD depletion is. NAD is a regulator of circadian rhythms. Jet lag. Right. I take, I take nanovine before I go. When I get there, not that much jet lag. I used to be bad when I went to Europe, especially those overnight flights. You get to, let's say, Paris or somewhere.

Yeah.

And you gotta get up, you're like, what time? And you gotta stay up all day. It's like, man, I just want to go to sleep. This is terrible. But not anymore.

Can you take too much NAD plus.

Well, your body just won't utilize it. Okay, yeah, yeah, you will. As with like a lot of things, you'll probably just not process it very well. And you know, the other ingredients in there, like there, there's a higher level of theamine, other things that may boost you. That's why you say, don't take too much at night. Because it's not the NAD or anything else, it's the other ingredients there that may activate in some people. People may keep you up a little bit. Right. That's another vitamin B curse. So it's like, yeah, you want to be able to do it. Right. Of course, in the morning is where you're really kicking in that brain power and everything.

Is that why you chose to put Bacopa inside of it because is that the neurotropic effect?

That's the big nootropic effect. And then cat's claw was an interesting one. People like, oh, I've used cat's claw for anti inflammatory like things.

Yes.

Yeah. The brain. Brain neural inflammation is a real thing. We wanted to address that as well. And that showed as well as part of the equation of your look at all these things impacting the brain. Of course, mitochondrial health, 20% of all energy in your brain. That matters to us. So does the synergy of coenzyme Q10 and improving on that and everything else. Glycine as well is great for the brain. But really it was the cat's claw addition that was a little bit interesting.

Yeah.

Because it was saying, well, we got to address neuroinflammation. Hey, that, that. We can't miss that.

It's pretty amazing that it took 10 years. A little bit. You said roughly a decade.

Yeah.

For this to come to market because it would have been like, I don't know, a thousand dollars a pill or.

Something at the start. It was insane. Yeah. I'll tell you that much. Like you can't sell a pill like that.

One of the coolest things I love about podcasting is when we actually get listener questions and feedback. And so earlier today I posted on Instagram, which is why y' all have to follow at Josh Trend official on Instagram and Tim asked something really interesting. Tim asked Casper, is there any benefit to red light therapy combined with methylene blue and NAD plus?

I think so for sure. The thing about red light therapy, I think it's wonderful. I have red light panels, everything like that. It's the, the ability for how deep it's going to go within tissue if you're using it right. It's great for usually skin and other things. It won't go too, too deep. That's why we were looking more infrared light that does go even through the skull and it could go into the.

Brain like the sauna space.

Yep.

Right.

Yep. Yeah. So I would actually. And. And I think the methylene blue is a wonderful nootropic and a stack. So nad methylene blue. These are beautiful stacks and so is light therapy with it. So I'm all on board. The only thing I would recommend with that, if you could do the infrared electric along with that as well. And, and just really try and go deeper into the tissue. Especially if you're going to use on something like on. On your brain, you could do that. Totally safe. Lots of science. I was Just in San Diego at a international laser conference. And they were talking about that. Just using LEDs, though, not even lasers.

What part. What part of San Diego were you in?

That was in Mission Bay.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

God, you making me miss the ocean.

Oh, yeah.

Forty years of my life. I love Austin. I mean, shout out to Austin. I love Austin. But. Okay, next question was from Megan. Should I stack NAD plus with anything else to get the most energy without central nervous system stimulants?

Yeah, I would avoid it because honestly, central nervous system stimulants are going to deplete. Usually NAD like that. That is the case. Stimulants usually do that. They have an impact on that. The thing is, if you're talking about stacks, we feel we've created the stack already. You don't need to go and get separate glycine, coenzyme Q10, bacopa, cat's cloth. I mean, like, no, it's there. That was the stack of it all. I have actually heard people stacking it with the precursors. I don't know why you'd have enough of that in everything. That's something Dave Asprey actually broached on. Why not take both? You could. I mean, if you have an unlimited kind of fund and you're okay with wasting some of it and get rid of some stuff. But no, I think on top of that, you got to know yourself again. That intuition of what's going on, going on. Or you deplete, like, get those tests right. Like you said, if you're depleted, like something magnesium, maybe you take a little extra magnesium. Three and eight, which is great for the brain or even shilajit or something that has high magnesium with the fulvic acid. Like, you could do these things. But I do not supplement just to take it every day.

Amen. Amen. Why would you. Otherwise, you're just kind of doing mental masturbation. Oh, this seems cool. Or somebody told me to take it, but I'm just taking it because I'm. I'm outsourcing my agency of choice to someone else that told me what's best for my body. Maybe. Maybe to round out this conversation, which, by the way, we've covered some ground today. I've super enjoyed this because, you know, when I think about a fuel source to feed the powerhouse of the cell, which then feeds the body, which is what we are. The body is an energy transporter. It actually creates. I remember I was at a Brennan Burchard conference once. He's like, the body doesn't get energy it generates energy.

That's right.

And I'm like, that's so true. So essentially, let's answer this is true health and how we change medicine. Is it about taking away the things that are robbing us of energy or is it about putting more focus on just giving the body natural energy sources, like the nad? If you had to pick one, I know it's a hard question, if you had to pick one for more importance, which one would it be?

At this stage, I feel it's giving the body something because again, you cannot go and live in a cave. Cave. We are sitting here right now surrounded by emf, surrounded by other things. Right. That, that's not going to change. Probably. Yeah, you could try and change that, but I don't know how you'd make a living anymore. Like all these things.

And it's hard to podcast from a cave.

Yes, it's incredibly difficult. Like total shout out to like Buddhist monks who are just sitting in caves.

That'd be cool if a Buddhist had.

A podcast, but he's not listening to this.

I would listen to a Buddhist who had a podcast.

That's interesting. No, but I, I think the stage where most people are, it's going to be much, much easier to simply add something that can counter than to remove things.

Yeah.

Because again, it's, it is pervasive. It is all around us these things. You don't even realize how many things we're doing. And to be honest, we're doing it within our own bodies right now that are natural things. We produce toxins all the time and all these things. So, you know, I think as you get more advanced, you could look at like, how can I eliminate? And I think it's a great place to start, is just like, hey, let me look around my house and what are the things that maybe aren't good for me? I think that's a super easy place to start. Rather than starting to really change diets around all these other things that take time, these are more habit driven, ritualistic things and belief system driven. So I think just the addition, like, hey, take these capsules. Right. Hopefully you get more vitality. You should absolutely get more energy, vitality, clarity. That will allow you to then funnel that into what can I start to remove and how can I minimalize my life for health? How can I do these things? And you will have the clarity and energy to do so.

I liked what you said at the beginning about the barrel theory where there's so much stress, eventually the water pours out of the barrel and I've heard my mentor and friend Paul Check say the same thing about a bathtub, which I love. You know, we can only experience so much stress, whether it's eustress or distress, Right? Because stress can. Can be positive, too, like running up a hill or doing a cold therapy bath or hot therapy. I also enjoyed so much when you said that one has to check in if a cold therapy is a good choice for them, because if they're already sick enough, then that shock to the system where the internal organs have the blood shunted, that might not actually be the best choice I get from you. This holistic lens. We've talked so much today about how to change this sick care system for good. And we talked about how to shine some light on the darkness. But in the center of all this, man, in the center of everything we've discussed, there is this core question that I've been wondering ever since I was a little boy, actually, how do we live our life? Well, what is this all about? You know, and it's the question that, you know, everybody on the wall here has probably asked themselves, too, like, whether it was Martin Luther King, like, how do we have people that treat each other with love and justice, or whether it was anyone else, Frank Sinatra, how do I use my voice to bring love and connection to people, or any of the people on this wall, or even Burning man, where there's the children inside of the bodies, where we essentially just want love and connection, but we build all these things that get in the way. So in the center of all that, with the consciousness that you've consumed and with the consciousness that you have, how would you answer that question for you? What is wellness? How would you define it? And what is a life well lived?

You know, I'll keep it as simple as possible without getting too deep with everything.

You can go deep, deep.

I mean, it will be deep. Trust me.

Okay, y'.

All, love thyself. Really Love yourself. Show yourself. Love you will show others that love as well. I think the problem is so many of us are so hard on ourselves. I speak to people all the time. This is bad. Like, this doesn't look good on me. Oh, my God. I. It's like, love yourself with those imperfections. You'll love everyone else more. Things will start to click a little bit more. Like, it's. It's not that, you know, really complex of everything. Life seems very complex. It shouldn't be. I feel, you know, there's going to be times where you go through your challenges, where you go through Your troubles where you get sick in those times, love yourself more in those times. Say I trust in my body as much as others around me may say that your body is, you know, it's not working right, it's not doing something, something right. You being breathing right now is a miracle in itself. And that's the truth. Like so many things are happening, millions of processes right now are happening in your body without you knowing. It's incredible. Love that. Be so happy that that is even occurring. And I understand there are people out there listening in pain, in real pain and suffering. And I would still say love yourself, love this second. You know, you're going to look back one day and actually say that was really important for me to go through. And I've seen it time and time again. I've seen it with people that, that again did not. Were told it probably wouldn't make it another month or two, but at the end of the day, that's it. Like you just got to love yourself, love everything. And of course when you do that, everything else starts to come. If I love myself, I want to put the best things inside of it. I want to have the best relationships, I want to have the best experiences in life. And that's all it is. Like everything else trickles out of that. So if I could, you know, impart kind of that, that one last piece is, is like sit down. Like when you start the day, like look in the mirror, say I love you. You know, just look deep.

Even if you don't feel it or mean it yet. No, just do it.

No lie like fake it till you make it sort of thing. Yeah, put some like actual like feel like look at yourself for a little bit. Sit and quiet for a little bit and really just like be like, like I love me. I do. I know. Like even if you don't, maybe just say it over and over.

Even if there's parts of me that fight that and try to not love me, I love those parts too.

Yes, sooner or later you will truly believe it. You believe what you repeat, right? Your beliefs become your destiny. And you said that and that, that you will believe it sooner, later you keep repeating it yourself. And even if you have a hard time, here's like a little hack I'll give people. It's like put on a self affirmation as you go to sleep. When you're more suggestible, when you're more in that delta wavelength, when you're in those deeper things, your body will start to believe it. You'll wake up with A little bit more love for yourself every single day. And it's something as simple as that. You don't have to do too much. I mean, there are, you know, the complex issues of life that you could start to look at and really break down. How do we address that? I still think it's all about love. When you love yourself, everything else falls into place.

And I want a presence, too. That was very profound, and I loved it. I connected with everything you said. Everything you said. And that's our journey, is to figure out, if loving yourself is so simple, then why sometimes does it not feel easy? I think that's a big one that we explore in the show is like, I wish that it was that simple, that people could go over to the wall and flick the light switch that says love. And maybe in true paradox, they can. Maybe it is that simple. But all the barriers and all the things that have taught us in a certain way to not do that, unless we have the energy to meet those barriers, those barriers will win. And so I want to end the podcast with that. Thank you for coming on the show. It's been a radical conversation. And also thank you for the generosity. Like, I feel the love from you. You guys go to joshtrent.com nadovim n a d, V. What's the spelling?

N A D, O V, I M. So it's like N a D, right? And then the O was just in there and vim. Is that actually Latin for energy, for vitality, for life force.

I love this. All right, well, he spelled it better than me, so go to that URL. Use the code Josh20. Thank you for the discount. That's a huge discount. I mean, it's not cheap to make these things and to market them. So thank you for your act of kindness and generosity there. Y' all. Go to the show notes joshtrent.com podcast until Casper and I see you again on another conversation. This was great. I really love. You're a science guy. I didn't know that. The spiritual depth. I really appreciated the spiritual depth.

Science is spirit, right? It's. It's both. It's one in the same. We use different scientific words that back in the day were very spiritual.

Yes.

You know, same thing.

Maybe the medicine men and women knew that science and spirit were always the same thing. And I think we've become so advanced and so intellectual with our developments in.

Modernity, become separatist in some ways. Right. Specialists, you specialize in this, that when at the end of the end of the day, it's all the same.

Well, I. I think, you know, on this table, it's a very special table. It's from Tamarindo, Costa Rica. So it feels alive to me. And it's a. It's a. Nate, It's a. It's a piece of nature that we can bring into the podcasting studio. And you've brought a lot of nature, too. You know, the talks of intelligence and. So y' all rewind this, listen to it again, Share it with somebody that you think is. Is struggling with energy or struggling with inflammation, specifically if they're having brain issues. Until Casper and I see you again on another conversation, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon. Hey, thanks for watching this video. If you love this video, hit subscribe. That way, you'll be automatically notified when new videos come out, new episodes. And also share this video with a friend. If you loved it, they're gonna love it, too. Check out some of the videos on this screen that are perfectly curated based on the video you just saw. Make sure you follow me, and I'll see you in the next video.