Visibility Coach Shares The Surprising Power of Speaking Your Thoughts Out Loud

We all have access to that voice inside of us. But things in our head get so loud because of society, because of programming, because our parents voices. And that's why I say in my book, in order for you to access that voice inside of us, we have to say it out loud. Vasavi Kumar is a licensed therapist, mindset coach, and author of say It Out Loud. Helping others utilize the power of their voice.

So many of us struggle actually just being real. Yeah, just being ourselves. At the core of it all, there's some piece of self that's feeling either unseen, unloved, or not enough or not worthy. Is there a starting place or an access point in most people where their voice truly lives?

So I stand in front of the mirror naked. I called it naked out loud. The mirror will always show you where you're not being kind to yourself. Because the minute you start scanning your body and you're like, oh, I look like this or I shouldn't have looked this way, you can actually pause that dialogue and you can choose to reframe it and be kinder to yourself. In that moment, we're allowing ourselves to say the thing that is taking up space in our mind so that we can have a mind that actually is thriving and that's peaceful within.

Is there specific phrases or incantations to use words to move you in the direction of your purpose? What is one big part of how you used to be where you were in fear about saying things out loud that is manifested into who you are now?

Okay, so I want to actually talk about how I used to be in romantic relationships. I know I said I didn't want to talk about romantic relationships on this podcast, but who I was in romantic relationships really embodies who I used to be. So in romantic relationships, I was the pick me girl. I can't believe that I'm even admitting this right now, but I used to be the one that, like, I just wanted men to choose me. And because of that, I didn't really speak up for what I needed. Now in other areas of my life, when it comes to my work, when it comes to my business, you see me on social media, if I'm hosting something, if I'm emceeing something, I'm like, loud and outspoken. So work life was always really easy for me. But personally, in my romantic life, that's when I used to really keep my mouth shut and not speak up for what I needed. And I'm not in a romantic relationship right now, so we don't know how I'm going to be in a relationship. But I do know that I no longer suppress my needs and I no longer say, oh, I'm fine, It's okay. I now have boundaries, and I now speak up for what it is that I want.

Yes. Boundaries are literally life changing. And so much of your work. So the book that's on the screen right now is called say it out Loud. And this is like not only. Not only listening to who you are from a soul perspective, but also having the courage to pursue the voice that you hear. It reminds me of Joseph Campbell's journey where the boy gets the phone call. And I don't know if you've seen the movie Finding Joe. No, my audience is like, dude, we've heard this a thousand times. Well, this is gonna be a thousand and one. We get the call. Sometimes we don't have the courage to actually hear what's there.

Yeah.

And so in order to say it out loud, there is a maturation process where we develop the courage to actually speak what we believe is true. But then first we have to actually decipher and know. Is it our soul's voice? Is it the collective voice? Who's. Is it mom and Dad's voice? Whose voice actually is it? So many people come to you because they're struggling finding their voice. But is there a starting place or an access point in most people where their voice truly lives?

I feel like if you can stand in front of the mirror and you can talk to yourself and you can actually see back your reflection and like the person that you are seeing back, you can tap into that part of you that may. That we all have. We all have access to that voice inside of us. But things in our head get so loud because of society, because of programming, because our parents voices, this person's voice, that person's voice. And that's why I say in my book, in order for you to access anyone, to access that voice inside of us, we have to say it out loud. And I know we were talking before the episode about internal family systems. And I say this in my book, if you want to access these different parts of you, you have to actually ask yourself the powerful questions and you have to respond back. This is where the shit gets kind of weird. Cause it's like, vasavi, you're asking me to talk to myself out loud and respond back. I know that sounds a little crazy.

Sounds great. I do it all day long.

Yes, you have to. I mean, I would love to hear from you, like, what's it like from you when you actually talk to yourself out loud and resp. Do you feel crazy?

Well, I mean, it depends on if I'm looking in a mirror or not. You know, what's the most subtle foe is my ego when I look in the mirror. Because I notice even at 44, doing the quote work.

Yeah.

For 15 years now, plus actually more if you include my personal training years. There's still little Geppetto voices.

Yes.

That arise. That we all deal with, by the way. And I don't care if it's Visavi or Josh or anybody else. Like, there are so many things that still are there. Yet my courage and my. I guess you could say North Star is actually being kind to myself in that moment when I look in the mirror, even if the voice is present. So, of course, when I look in the mirror, I'd want to just hear good stuff.

Yeah.

But if I hear stuff that's not loving or not good, my maturity or my evolution process has taught me to not always listen to that voice, but it can be very confusing. And that's maybe at the core of my deeper question to you, because you literally have made a career off of helping others access their voice, use their voice, process with their voice, which we're going to get into. What is the real truth? When somebody looks in the mirror and when they hear the voice that's not loving, it's still them. How do they actually befriend that voice and not let that voice control them?

Yesterday, I was standing in front of the mirror naked, and I do.

Is that a regular thing you do?

This is a regular thing that I do. I even have a free download that I'll let your audience get on. It's 365 days of Mirror work prompts. So I stand in front of the mirror naked. I called it naked out loud.

Yes.

And I stand in front of the mirror naked every day, usually before I take a shower and I scan my entire body. And when that Geppetto voice comes in, and because I'm like, oh, your stomach's not flat enough. Your arms are getting like this, your thighs are getting like this, I literally say those thoughts out loud. I will say out loud, your stomach's fat. Your thighs are like this. And then I say, no pause. We're not going to be a bitch to ourselves. Let's find five kind things that we can say to our body right now. So I will actually speak out loud, kind words to myself in that moment. And that's why the mirror will always show you where you're not being kind to yourself because the minute you, like, start scanning your body and you're like, oh, I look like this, or I or, you know, I shouldn't look this way, you can actually pause that dialogue and you can choose to reframe it and be kinder to yourself in that moment. That's why I absolutely, I will talk about mirror work till the day I die.

All right, we're gonna link that in the show notes today. Cause that's really 365 days.

Yeah, 365 days. There are questions for you to literally stand in front of the mirror and talk to yourself out loud. So I just came up with a year's worth of Mirrorworks prompt for you to be able to do that.

Did you use ChatGPT?

Of course I did.

Nice. You know what's interesting? And it seems like AI works its way into all the podcasts lately. You know, the way that we learn is through language. And if you think about what an AI really is, it's a large language model, an LLM. Whatever we feed AI, it's going to come back to us. But yet, paradoxically, whatever we feed ourselves through voice. Because I'm a verbal processor, and obviously you are right. That's why the book is called say it out Loud. Whatever we feed ourselves or others comes back to us. And I wonder for you, like, going back to that person who in a relationship was like the pick me girl, what was the narrative? What was the internal dialogue, then versus now, and how did you close the gap on that?

Wow, that's so good, Josh. The thought was, if I don't do what you want me to do, you will leave me. If I am not who you want me to be, if I'm not pretty enough, if I don't fuck you enough, if I don't cook enough for you, you're going to leave me. Who do I need to be in order for you to stay? That was my inner dialogue. And so today it's, I value myself, I'm worthy. If you don't like me, fuck off.

But the fuck off is interesting because I don't know how much NLP that you've studied for your work. Have you ever dove into nlp?

No. Obviously, I know a little bit about it, but I haven't gone deep into it for my work. I wrote my book based on how I learned how to manage my own mind. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 19 years old and ADHD. So the way that I learned to deal with the mania in my Brain was to say the thoughts out loud to get them out of my head into the ether so there was no longer cluttering my mind. So this was self talk for me. And saying it out loud actually saved my life 20 something years ago when I got diagnosed with bipolar disorder because I didn't know why my mind was moving so fast. But when I actually said each thought out loud and asked myself, is this a helpful thought? Is this helpful or harmful to me? Is this helpful or hurtful to me? I can then ask myself, do I really want to hold on to this thought or can we just discuss? So it, it helped me to really manage my own mind. Saying it out loud.

Wow. So 19, that's like a heavy lick and stamp to place on someone. You know, even that word diagnoses. I know we look at allopathic care in western medicine, specifically the DSM 5, which is, by the way, 70% funded.

I know.

By the pharmaceutical companies themselves. It's really fascinating that most people don't know this. We just talked about it with my buddy Alex Wolf, who's putting a product out into the world. It's a legal microdose to help help calm down the hemispheres in the brain and get people out of this kind of pharmacological loop of insanity. At 19, did that feel real to you? And if so, how have you looked back on that in your journey of evolving to know that? Do you need the medicine? Do you not need the medicine? My mom is manic bipolar and so I understand that journey and I look back for her and I'm like, wow. I think if her parents were different and God loved them, they didn't know any different. Maybe she would have had different software that could be able to change her hardware because neuroplasticity is real. Going back to 19, can you speak to or can you be in conversation right now on the podcast with her for anybody that's struggling with bipolar? I've talked about my mom many times on the show to really connect with her and give her not just a, oh, it's okay, baby, like a passivity, but like a real understanding of what she was going through. From the woman that you are now.

Man, I feel so much compassion for the 19 year old in me. She was a sophomore in college, she was using a lot of drugs, she barely slept, she was missing her classes, she was screwing around with guys literally every other day, just doing things. I wasn't raised that way. Okay. I come from a conservative Indian background. I mean, I come from an immigrant background. But this is not the way I was raised. I wasn't raised. I was raised to wait till marriage. Right? I was raised in that way. So when I first got diagnosed, I remember being 19 and feeling relief, Josh. I felt relieved because I saw my behavior and I saw the way that I was being, and I'm like, this is not me. So when I got this label and I got this diagnosis, I remember at that time feeling like, oh, so there's nothing wrong with me. There's just something wrong with my brain. Right? And so that's. And so I delved into all these books on bipolar disorder, my favorite one being the Tao of Bipolar. And it just talks about how if you're diagnosed with bipolar disorder, you have to learn how to manage your energy. So I learned at 19 what it means, like. And of course, it's still a work in progress. I'm still learning how to manage my energy. Every day is different. But when I was 19, I was relieved that I was given that label. I was relieved to be put on medication. And I have struggled with being on and off medication my entire life, because there is a part of me that's like, well, fuck this. This is not my fault. If I just had parents who X, Y, Z. If I just had an environment that wasn't so chaotic, I wouldn't have. My brain wouldn't have formed in this way. So I've always had this very volatile relationship with being on medication. I just felt it was very unfair, and I felt like I can do it without meds. So I was on and off meds for a very long time. I've most recently gone back. In the past three years, I've been back on medication. It has completely changed my life, because the way that I was off medication, it was not good for my relationships. It was not good for me. I. I got on a very small dosage. I take Abilify. It's 10 milligrams of Abilify, and it works for me. But there's still. To this day, where I'm. You know, I've had to really lean into my acceptance about, like, okay, this is a diagnosis that I've been given, but I don't want to fully accept it. There's still a part of me that's like, listen, I'll take the meds. Because I do see that it's working. I do feel a difference. Like, I feel the difference in my own self, but there's still a part of me that resists it to this day.

Yeah.

Yeah, to this day. I'm still fucking pissed off about it because I'm like, I don't. I feel very stable, right? I'm very stable. But then the question is, is it the medication or is it all the other stuff that you're doing, all the inner work that you're doing? I don't know. But I do know that what I'm doing now is working so far.

And when you say it's working, because I. I feel like to the degree that we have peace in these five sides of self, and yeah, you have some really unique teachings in the book that we're going to unpack. One of the teachings that I love, that I've been leaning into for the past four years, five years now, has been this Pentagon aspect. So we live in a physical body. That's one. We have a mind. That's two. We experience emotions, that's three. We have a connection to God. We prayed before the podcast, which was amazing, Right? So I know that you have a connection with something outside yourself. And then lastly, because we're Here in this 3D world, we also get to master finances. So this Pentagon, whatever area is lacking or sucking chi from another, then that's the degree in my life I'm suffering or I'm feeling well. And I wonder for you, I've even thought about this for my mother. I mean, she's in her 70s now, but you're much, much, much younger than her. And so I wonder for you, has there ever been a curiosity that the very work that you're putting out in the world, which is managing oneself, to be able to hear the soul, to speak truth into existence, is the very thing that you're still grappling with.

Yes.

It's such a paradox that God gave you. What do you make of that?

I just feel like God would not give me this, whatever you want to call it, diagnosis, label, condition, if I couldn't handle it, there's a reason why I've been given this label. And I have overanalyzed this too many times to count, but I'm just like, why? What is this about the bipolarity? And so this is how I've made sense of it, and it helps me sleep at night. I think of bipolarity as the duality within all of us. Right. We all have multiple sides to us. We all have many different parts to us. My job in this lifetime, and I've heard God say this to me, is be one with yourself. What does that actually mean? For me, that means that my thoughts, my words, my actions are all in alignment, What I'm saying, what I'm thinking, what I'm speaking, what I'm doing is all in alignment with myself. So I feel like, you know, do I wish that I was never given this diagnosis? Absolutely. Like, I don't want to have to take a medication every day. Like, no, I don't want to. But now that these are the cards that I've been dealt and I've seen how I am off medication versus on medication, the conversation that I have with God these days is really like, what do I need to do to be in alignment? What do I need to do to be at one with myself? So I'm not experiencing this bipolarity and this duality. It's not just about mania and depression for me. It's like. Like being in alignment with who I am as a person, doing and saying exactly what I mean.

Do you have a sense? I'm just like, in the moment with you so deep. Do you have a sense that literally, you know, your book, say it out loud. This. This power to hear the soul's voice, to be able to have the courage to speak it out into existence, that in the process of you growing and growing and growing, being on stages, being on podcasts, doing you, basically.

Yeah.

That there's healing in that.

In itself, there is so much healing in being seen. Okay. Because for me, putting myself out there, even doing this interview with you, is just another way for me to be seen and to impact people. So I find that it is. It's the most beautiful work that I can do when I actually put myself out there, because I'm allowing other people to hear my story. And hopefully in that process, they. People feel less alone. So, yeah.

Yeah. I think it's really beautiful that you're just not pretending.

I can't. I can't. It's hard for me to lie.

You could sit here and say, no, I'm good with bipolar. It's fine.

No, I'm not okay with it.

Bullshit. Right?

I'm not.

Okay. But I think it's really beautiful to contrast that, because you literally have clients that are attracted to you because they're struggling with their voice and speaking. And maybe it's also a compartmentalization of branding and getting clear on who they are and their values, strategy, all that. There's a lot in there, but at the core of it all, there's. There's some piece of self that's feeling either unseen, unloved, or not enough or not worthy. It's. Or too much or too much.

Yeah.

I Mean, I've. I've definitely been labeled too much in my life. Yeah, but that's cool. I think that the question I'm really getting at is if we are to be the most authentic self, which is like the greatest gift to the world. You know, Joseph Campbell's quoted in that. He's like, the greatest gift that you will ever find in your life is to be you.

Yes.

And it, like, makes my body feel peace when I even say that. But getting there is not so easy as flicking a light switch. How do you propose that you, yourself and your clients are on this path of getting there? And if getting there doesn't even exist, because once you're there, there'll be another there? What's the beginning process of that?

I always say, see yourself first, like, actually pay attention to you as a person. I'm very self obsessed. And when I say that, I mean, like, I am obsessed with the way that I think, what I believe, what I want, what I desire, my pain, my sorrows. Like, I'm obsessed with learning about myself because that's all I have control over. Right. I can sit there and try to change the men that I date. Dating project men. I've done that before. But I've. In the more recent past, and especially since getting back on medication, I've been like, obsessed with just feeling really good in my skin and feeling really good in my body. So the first step is to see yourself. You have to. You have to know yourself. I mean, I don't know how else to say.

It always comes back to it.

It always comes back to it. I mean, you have to know yourself, take some time and be with yourself. I'm single and I'm child free. I have a golden retriever and I live alone. Yeah, she's great. She's 14, so I spend a lot of time with myself. But even if you're not single and if you're partnered, you know, you still have to learn how to be with yourself. Because even if you're in a relationship, you're still always gonna be with yourself.

Yeah.

So you gotta see yourself first.

This is episode 700 something. In every single episode, in some way, there's a master, ancient or contemporary that's leading us back to this statement. Know thyself.

Yes.

I mean, goodness gracious. It's like if there's one overwhelming lesson that we're all learning, it's how to actually know us. But I think the challenge with that is we have been indoctrinated and we've been branded almost like cattle, you know, from the very people that say they love us the most. And actually in their heart, I think they do. Like your dad and mom loved you to the best degree they ever could. Same with mine. And I loved how earlier you said it's super disempowering to blame them. Yeah, it's the worst thing we could ever do. But yet I think about self awareness, where our literally, our caregiver's job is to soothe us, make us feel safe, and be a guardian of wisdom so that we can actually have a better life than they did. When you look back on either mom or dad, or maybe both, what was something amazing you learned from them that helped you write the book? And then also, what was something that was painful that also helped you write the book?

Wow. That is such a good question. So something amazing about them. So both my parents are amazing in their own way. My mother. So I'll just say this. My mother used to hit me when I didn't tell the truth. So I got beaten. Indian parents beat Texas.

Is that a cultural thing?

It is very much a cultural thing.

It's, like, accepted.

It is completely accepted, yeah. I mean, I was beaten as a child by my mother. And so she forced the truth out of me. So when I wrote the book, the amazing thing that she did, even though she used to beat the shit out of me, it taught me to be honest. I wrote the book as honestly as possible, as honest as I could. Not to impress people, not so I could get clients from the book, but just write the damn book as honestly as possible. So I owe that to my mother and all the beatings that she used to give me. Work for something my father. And one thing that they didn't do, I would say my father tried to keep the peace a lot in the family. I love my father. I am a daddy's girl. He's currently. He has a neurological condition. He has a progressive neurological condition. So he's not doing well. But he didn't stand up for me. When I was a younger child, my mother would hit me. He didn't stand up for me. And so I sometimes wish my father fathered me a little bit more. I wish he stood up for me, but all he wanted to do was keep the peace with my mother. And that affected how I wrote the book because I didn't want to ruffle feathers in the book. Right. I didn't want to piss anyone off. I didn't want to piss off my mother. My mother, to this day, still hasn't read the book because she didn't want to hear what I had to say. So they taught me to be honest. And one thing that they didn't help me with was, like, not ruffle feathers. But I still. I laid it all out there in the book. I put it all out there. I have no regrets with how I wrote the book, but that's how they shaped me and how I wrote. Wrote it.

Did you feel a catharsis from that?

I felt. I felt extreme imposter syndrome at first. I did not claim the identity as an author until six months after the book came out. Like, I didn't. I still didn't feel like an author even after the book came out. Did I feel a catharsis? Yes. I was going through the worst physical pain of my life in my sacrum when I was writing the book. And I was just like, why am I in so much pain writing these stories? And I realized, you know, the body keeps score. Like, I'm literally purging shit as I'm writing this book. So it was very cathartic for me.

So what else physically manifested in the process of catharsis and writing?

I definitely got the flu once when I was writing, but my sacrum, because I was sitting so much, my sacrum got really. And so I had really weak butt cheeks.

Did you have to sit on one of those donuts?

Yes. Yes. It was not comfortable. It was not a good look for me. But, yeah, that was the process of writing the book. It was hard.

Wow. Okay. So another quote that I've mentioned that is, like, literally perfect. I can't quote anyone else in this moment besides this man, and it's Gabor Mate. And he states that addiction is really the opposite of connection, either to self or others. And I look at your journey of sobriety, and I don't know when drugs or alcohol came in. Do you remember the first time, like, what age you were?

I was 12 when I first. When I first smoked my first cigarette. I was 15, 14 when I had my first drink.

And then. And then from that time, how many years before you actually took an honest look at it and became sober?

37 in 2017.

Yes.

Yeah.

Was that a moment of 35?

35, yeah.

Yeah. The reason I asked that is because was it a moment where you realized you were disconnected from self or others?

The addiction to cocaine had become so bad. It was five days a week. That was in 2017 when I went to rehab. I remember being so disconnected from God. Like, I didn't even have the voice in my head to tell me, don't call your dealer. It's like that voice that often guides us, that tells us, don't do that. Be better than that. This is not good for you. That voice was gone, Josh. Like, I was using cocaine so much. And I was still running a six figure coaching business, by the way. Just want to let you know, I was running a business and I had a closet cocaine addiction. I couldn't even hear the voice of God anymore. But in 2017, I was 35 years old. I said to God, if you get me through this, I promise I will never touch this shit again. I will help people. Like, for real help people. I will live in integrity. I won't just be this person who's putting out one thing and then doing something behind closed doors. That was in 2017. Still didn't really learn my lesson though, right? I hit that high bottom. I don't call it a rock bottom. Cause I still had a nice car and I still had money in the bank, and it was. Everything still looked okay. So I didn't really hit that rock bottom. And I went to rehab the first time. I stayed sober for seven months. And I got a job on television as a TV host. Was lying about my sobriety. So I was on tv inspiring the world every morning. Austin television morning show. And I was still drinking and using drugs on the weekends. And my performance suffered on camera. My performance suffered on camera. And they fired me within six months. I had never been fired from a job before other than when I was 17 years old. Old. My first job at CVS. And then I went back to rehab in 2019. And this is why, I think this time my sobriety stuck is because in 2019, my parents didn't make me go. No one made me go. And when I went In 2017, my mom was like, you're going. Like, we are. We're flying from New York to Austin. We are taking you to rehab. I went back to the east coast to go to rehab. But in 2019, Josh, I made the decision to stop the chaos. No one forced me, so I think that's why. And I'm coming up on six years. No. What year are we in? 2025. I'm six years sober from cocaine, March 27th of this year. And I honestly feel like it stuck with me this time because I decided it. I decided to stop the chaos.

Because you loved yourself or because you were done feeling pain?

I was done feeling the pain. And then I had to learn how to love myself.

Okay.

The very first thing that I Did. I'm not kidding you. I've said this on many different podcast interviews. The very first thing that I did when I got out of rehab after my second stint, my mother was like, you don't have to work for the next six months. Don't provide therapy and coaching for people. I don't want you to help anyone. I want you to help yourself. My mother took care of me financially for six months. One of the very first thing I Googled, I wasn't working. I didn't have clients. I had no actual responsibilities for six months. I googled, how do I love myself? That was the first thing that this was at 37 at this point. Now I'm 37. I'm 42 now. 37 at this point. Googling, how do I love myself? Like, I literally had to start from square one. Yeah. And Google said to me, hydrate first thing in the morning. And that's.

That was the advice.

That was the advice. And I said, I was saying, okay, I gotta start somewhere. It's like, I didn't know how to love myself. I knew I was done with the pain, but then I was like, all right, how do I really start to love myself? That's the journey that I've been on for the past. Since 2019.

Wow. Okay. Everybody can relate to that. Because a lot of times the come from of our question comes from pain and even the way that we prayed before the podcast. You know, my intention was for this conversation to reach someone exactly where they are.

That's all we want.

And then one thing in my own journey, and I can sense from yours that I love that you're not bullshitting and faking, is that wherever we are, there we are. And there's so much power and peace and like, that deep exhale of just, okay, here's where I really am. I'm not trying to pretend. I'm not trying to, like, falsify and, like, look how successful I am or look at my stuff. I can only imagine how many, probably millions of people are still faking it till they make it.

Yes.

And I believe I've heard you quote something around this modality of, like, people that say, oh, you gotta fake it till you make it. Do you believe that's actually harmful, the phrase fake it till you make it?

Yeah, I don't really like the term fake it till you make it. I, like, act as if. Like, act as if you are the person. Like, be the person that you want to be or you want to claim this identity as an author. You want to claim the identity of a millionaire. Whatever it looks like, you want to claim this identity as a. As a desirable partner, whatever it is, like, act it, act it, be it, be it, start to be it. Whatever that looks like, chip away at it. Ask yourself, what would this identity have me doing, Saying, being, behaving, you know? So I appreciate you saying about the not bullshitting and faking. I also want to owe that to you because, I mean, number one, I don't want to bullshit and fake, but number two, you have created a very safe space for me to just say it out loud. So thank you.

Hey, well, with that book title, how could I not? I mean, look, the whole purpose of all of our programs, of my entire work, of the past 700 episodes, 10 years of doing this, has been me learning it out loud, speaking it out loud, and being honest about my pornography addiction and the way that I used to use women and the way that I just haven't been true to myself. I mean, in 2022, the podcast used to be called Wellness Force, and I did a mushroom journey. And I gotta credit Carrie Michelle, because I was just complaining for, like, six months. I just feel out of fucking integrity with my life. I'm, like, not. Not centered. And I couldn't figure out what it was. It was this word, force.

It just felt forceful.

The etymology of the word force is like. It's like taking.

Yeah.

And I thought, ew, I do not want to have this word anymore in my life. And she turned to me and said, this is, like, in our journey. And she said, well, aren't you just really wanting wisdom?

Wow.

And that was it. It was like, oh, my God. And then, of course, there was a journey to actually rebrand and share, and, like, that's where everything came from, all the abundance. I was really struggling up to that point, like, 2022, which really was three and a half years ago. When the podcast started, the podcast that I say now, Wellness and Wisdom started. And it wasn't until I got really honest with me in public, by the way, which is very like, naked.

Being witnessed by others.

Being witnessed by others, speaking it out loud.

Yes.

Which is why I resonate with your book.

Yeah.

When I speak it out loud, it's a spell and a prayer that my body and the water in my body is feeling. I literally put thought to form, and my body believes it. And so I wonder for you, in order to write the book, you said you were sitting on a donut, you had sickness, you had all this stuff coming up. What were you then how did you identify when you started writing the book compared to how you identify now?

I value myself and my work so much more. I did not value what I was doing. Like, I don't think I understood the depth and gravity of what I was doing with this book. I was just. I got a book deal, right? So I got an agent, I got a book deal. I was like, okay, I'm writing this book, right? But I don't think I fully. I don't want to say embodied it. That's not the right word because I always embodied my teachings of saying it out loud. I'm a very verbal person. I didn't fully believe that I knew what the hell I was talking about. And I didn't fully believe that, like, I was worth even writing this. I didn't value my work. I didn't really value what I was bringing to the table. Now I own it. I own it. I'm like, yes, I am good at what I do. I am great at helping my clients. And my book came out in 2023. So it's been two years. So it's been a two year process where I've really been claiming the identity of just myself and who I am, and as an author and as a speaker and as a host and all these things. But it's like I was not there during the book writing process at all. Like, I didn't value my work, I didn't value myself, and I didn't really value my work because I think I was just so in the thick of it, you know, I was just, like, doing this thing. I got paid to do it, and I was really excited to write the book, but I was still like, is this really happening? Like, am I actually doing this? Like, I couldn't quite believe it yet.

I remember Maya Angelou was quoted as having imposter syndrome in her work. Have you heard of this?

No. Tell me more.

So she actually said, in many ways, of course I'm paraphrasing her, that the imposter syndrome is actually a good thing. Because the imposter syndrome is like a protector or a guardian of your own growth that allows you to meet it with all of your fear, with all of your stories and just love it, you know, like an ifs or you talk about, like, loving all your parts in your work. In many ways.

Yeah.

Just meeting that protector, that's called imposter syndrome is actually the recipe for wholeness, the recipe for healing. But many people meet it and then they never write the book, and then.

They run from It.

They run from it. They don't. So what was. There had to have been something in your heart and soul. I don't get the feeling like it was just because you were done being in pain. I don't get the feeling like you were just in scarcity when you wrote it. Like, it was your soul wanting to give this gift to the world. It's helped so many people.

Thank you so much.

I mean, if y' all go to her Instagram, you can just see, like, this is impacting people at scale. So what was it about your soul? What was the strength in your soul that allowed you to, even in the face of the imposter, do the thing anyways?

I made a promise. I promised God. I made a promise to God that I said if I cleaned up my goddamn life, that I would pay it forward. So for me, it was like, I have to do this. There was no question, right? Like, okay, cool, I have a little bit of imposter syndrome. What am I going to do? Stop writing the book? You know what I mean? Like, if you have a voice in your head that tells you you're not good enough, you're not qualified enough, you're going to let that voice win. Right? So that's where I had to take my own medicine and talk back to that voice and understand that the voice in me that was just scared about putting my work out there or felt unqualified or something was just afraid of being seen. Like, to see myself in this. This new way, in this way is like, I'm an author. I actually have thoughts that I have cultivated and I have put in this form of this book. And so I've had to learn how to talk to that part of myself that was just trying to protect me. Right. From any sort of backlash. And specifically, I wasn't worried about the rest of the world. I was most concerned about my mother and what she would think about the stories that I was sharing in the book. That was my biggest concern. So I don't really know. I had a little bit of the imposter syndrome, but it was more so of what will people think? Specifically, what will my mother think? But I got over it because we gotta get. We gotta move through it. If we wanna make the impact that we wanna have in this lifetime, we gotta move through it.

I'm not, like, a fan of everything Gary Vaynerchuk says.

Yeah.

But I remember there was. And we'll find this specific piece of him talking about it. And I think he's talked about it on stages and in a lot of posts anyways. But he said that many of you are actually running around scared to do the thing that you really wanna do because you're scared of your parents judging.

Yes, he's right.

And I think that's not just you and him. I think there's an essence or like a residue of that with most people. Unless you were just really fortunate. Like some people are just fortunate they're born to super conscious, loving, integrated parents. And it's not the case for so many of us. And I think maybe, I wonder how you feel the people that are resonant with your work or the people that are in the process of learning their soul's voice, having the courage to hear it, having the courage to speak it, learning how to speak it. I mean, there's a lot of work there. Right. It can be daunting if you don't have a guide.

Yeah.

Or a coach in some way. But really, at the end of it, do you believe that all roads lead to me being worthy and me being lovable? Is that it? Or is that too reductionistic?

I think all roads lead to the fact that we are worthy, we are lovable, and that we have to learn to see ourselves first. We have to see ourselves in the image of our creator, whatever your creator is for you. But God doesn't make an any mistakes. Right? So I'm not gonna sit here and question, like, how dare I? I actually had this moment with myself the other day that I was like, how dare I question myself? How dare I question what I look like, what I sound like? I didn't make me. I didn't make me. So who. How dare I comment on who I am as a person? Right? So I just think for me, it's really been a journey reconnecting back with that voice inside of me. And I know that people that come to me and they resonate with me. They do so. Because I talk about the things that I think we're all in experiencing. Right. Like fear of judgment, fear of this perfectionism, thinking that things need to be perfect before we put it out there, instead of just allowing ourselves to create our art, whatever that looks like for us, and just putting it out into the world and sharing it with the people who need it the most.

You were on a podcast with a friend of mine and he's been on the show, I think, once or twice. His name is Hal Elrod.

Oh, yeah. I love Hal.

Yeah. And he's. He met you on a stage and he was, like, compelled. He said, I gotta Interview this woman. And on the podcast, this is one thing that I'm really starting to love about you. Just this raw honesty, like you're. Has anybody ever told you that you're a raw ass, wild woman?

Yeah.

Is that like a thing?

This is the first time. Thank you. I'll receive it.

You said on the podcast that I was really afraid of sharing about my bipolar diagnosis because I didn't want people to think this bitch is crazy. How have you moved past that and through that?

It's still a fear of mine. Bipolar disorder does not get the best rap in our society. I mean, just think about how people talk about the weather. Oh, the weather is bipolar. She's crazy. She must be bipolar. You know, people say really fucking mean things about things that they don't know. So I still. I still fear it. You know, there's. I was actually thinking about the fact that I don't show anger a lot. I don't show anger a lot these days. I don't show frustration a lot these days. And I was asking myself, why don't I show anger and frustration these days? Is it the medication? Is the medication, you know, just basically stifling my emotions or. I came to the realization that I don't really show my anger and frustration out loud because I don't want people to think I'm a crazy bipolar bitch. I had that realization like this past last week, and I was like, wow. I don't really share, like, frustration about things and anger about things because I'm afraid I'm gonna be perceived as crazy. Especially cause I'm so vocal about having bipolar disorder. So I fear that sometimes it does. It does still cross my mind.

Are you in this phase of your life in creation, committed in some way or in many ways to accessing that and feeling that, knowing that it'll make your work even bigger?

Yes, I am. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I know that it's gonna start with me just speaking out loud and just talking about things, even if it's like a small thing that I'm frustrated with. You know what I mean? Like, something frustrating happened today. I don't allow myself publicly. Like, of course I vent to friends. I have a therapist that I go to, I have a coach that I go to. I have my best friends. But, like, publicly, like, out in the world, and we're talking about social media, right? Because that's the public. I don't allow myself to let the people not closest to me see me in this way. Because if they learn about me and they know that I have bipolar disorder, they're going to think, oh, she's bipolar and crazy. So I am actively working on it, and I think the way that I'm going to go about doing it, because we're actually processing this in real time, is just start sharing some of my more smaller things that I'm frustrated about, things that I'm angry about, and actually practicing allowing myself to say these things out loud on camera and capturing it so that.

What's one of them.

I'm really fucking angry at the way people talk about people with mental health challenges. Like, they just kind of, you know, I understand that there's, you know, medication's not for everyone, but I just can't stand when people, especially in the wellness industry, I'm just going to say it. They'll be like, you don't need medication. I mean, like, you don't fucking live inside my head. You don't live inside my head. You don't live inside my body. You don't know what I need or don't need. So I don't like when people tell me how I should or shouldn't deal with my brain or my mind because it's so personal. So that's something that really pisses me off, Josh.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah.

You know, I checked myself, too, because I. I had the, like, feeling. Now I'm. I'm getting even better as time goes on at feeling something and not attaching words to it.

Yeah.

And know. And having the maturity to know when to speak something and when not. My lady is a great teacher for that.

Yeah.

If you ever want to learn as a man when to say something and when not to say something, be with a powerful woman. That will teach you everything you need to know about speaking your truth and the timing of it. But I noticed, like, with my mom when I was growing up, I wanted to fix her. I wanted to make her okay. And one thing that I've taken a lot of inventory on in my life that has come out in ways that actually have been really beautiful and of service to others is managing the fixer inside of me. Like, I even noticed it at the table. I was like, huh, I wonder if I could actually give her some of the Eons product. I was almost ready to, like, offer you solutions.

Yeah.

But then that robs you of your process.

I'm really happy that we're having this.

Conversation of your process. And this is a really big thing. And I think it was, like, six years ago at PaleoFX back in the day here in Austin.

Yeah.

I was interviewing Christine Hassler and she was like, you know, anytime we go in, in a partnership of any kind, especially into relationships, and you give solutions too soon, you try to fix it too soon, which is also, I'm a man. And we do that.

Yeah.

That's just what we do. You know, this. We fix shit. Especially if you're a kid with a bipolar mom.

Yeah.

The. The greatest gift you can give to someone is to just to be there for them as they go through their process. Yes. Now, if they request support, that's different.

Yes.

Right. Talk about this and how you've navigated this, not just personally, but also, I'm sure, with clients.

Yeah. So anytime I want to help my client with something, even to this day, even if they're a long standing client, long term client, I will always ask their permission first. Can I give you some feedback?

Yes.

Are you open to feedback? Because how dare. I think I know what's best for my clients. Right. Like, oh, I know what you should be doing. No, let me see if you're actually open. Because the last thing that I want to do because I hate wasting time and energy, is to give some really solid wisdom and then they're resistant to.

It or it just goes.

It just goes over their head. So that's why I always want to do a temperature. Just check in, emotional check in. How are you feeling right now? Are you open to feedback? Are you open to advice right now? So good, just do that. And with myself, if I'm going to share something personal with my best friend, I will say to her, I just need you to listen. I got this. I'm gonna move through it. I'll be okay. I'm resilient, I'm fine. But I don't need anything right now. So I just, I will say that up front. I even say that to my mother because she's a fixer and she cannot stand seeing me in pain. Like my mother cannot tolerate seeing me in pain. So she immediately will just talk over me and try to just give me all these solutions. And I'm like, I just want a conversation with my mother to just be nurturing and soothing. I just want you to listen to me. So I now tell my mother, mom, I just want you to hear me. I don't need any advice from you. I just need to say it out loud. So I recommend everyone listening to this right now. If you need someone, if you have someone in your life who just overly just tries to Fix your problems. Just say to them, I just need to say this out loud.

It's so good.

Just listen.

So I'm curious if in the past you've had this dynamic in relationships where you would attract a fixer, has that ever happened to you?

I was the fixer.

You were always the fixer. Always.

I'm a licensed therapist and a coach. I love to fix.

So you never had a man that came to you that was like, oh, you should do this, babe. You should do that? No, never.

I was the only. I was always the fixer.

See, just when you think you know everything. Yeah, you don't know much.

I was the fixer. I was the fixer. Growing up. As a kid, I like to fix my parents marriage. I want to. To fix my dad's emotions, my mother's emotions. So I just. Just really became, I thought, very good at just helping people solve problems. Right. Like, I could just see things so easily when I was a kid. It was. Things were just so simple for me. Like, why can't y' all just talk to each other? Just talk it out, say it out loud. So. But as I grew older, and I say this in my book, I would pick partners that were emotionally unavailable that I could fix so that I felt like I was worth something. Yeah.

And did you ever fix them? No.

No. I went to rehab twice.

That didn't work out very well.

Yeah, I ended up getting screwed over. Yeah.

There's this phrase, and forgive me all if this is offensive, but it's Captain Saho.

Yes. I was Captain Save.

So, like, the man comes in with his cape flapping, and I know it's a derogatory term that I use, but it's real. But it's interesting. Like, there's this aspect of the Amago, if you look at. And I know you know, Mark Groves is a mutual friend of ours, and this is why we're connecting. And I love him. And he's interviewed the. The Harvl Hendricks couple. I forget his wife's name, but it's Hendrix is her last name too. And they have this imago where you actually attract the person to you. And Dr. Stan Tatkin mentioned the same thing. He said that in Imago, we literally attract a person that is a perfect puzzle piece fit to our pain.

Wow.

Therefore, we attract them to heal the pain. And so it was really interesting, like, you wanting to fix the men, were they just more avoidant in those spaces? Like, you were coming in with the fixer, which was your pain. And that was more of, like, an anxious attachment style?

Yeah, 100%.

And then did the men exhibit more of an avoidance style?

Absolutely. Just like my dad. Just like my dad. Like, carbon copy of my father. My father was a very loving man, very kind man, but he avoided a lot of emotions. I mean, he just basically suppressed his emotions. And I honestly feel. And I know this might go off on just a little bit of a tangent, I feel like the disease that my father has been diagnosed with, it's called supranuclear progressive supranuclear palsy. It's a degeneration of the frontal lobe, cortex of the brain. I honestly feel like. And now he can't speak, and he can't talk. My father cannot speak. He cannot talk, he cannot walk, and he cannot swallow. It's very hard for him. But I honestly feel like the man suppressed so much of his emotions, I'm like, no wonder he can't talk anymore. I know that sounds. I feel really fucked up when I say it, but I'm like, this didn't just happen. This didn't just happen. Just like my bipolar disorder didn't just happen.

Exactly.

My brain was split from a young age because that's what happened. What I saw growing up, and I see my father with his disease, and I'm like, he suppressed so many of his emotions, and he didn't say it out loud, and now the man can't even talk. So I dated a lot of men like my father who just avoided their emotions. And I'm. I'm like that. Let's talk about it. Let's bring it out. Let's solve this. Let's connect. That's who I was in relationships. Yeah.

Yeah. You're literally describing in real time the power of the imago. So then, obviously, I'm going to ask the apparent question, who are you attracting now? Who are you now and who are you attracting now?

I. I mean, Josh, we could talk about it. I'm not attracting anyone. Do you know anyone for me?

Okay.

Yeah. I'm not attracting anyone right now. I'm not focused on my love life. I just basically said, if I'm gonna keep living my life, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing. I'm gonna put myself out there, go to places, network, you know, go to events, just live my life. And I truly believe this. And maybe this. Maybe this sounds very naive and innocent, but I truly believe that God has a plan. If I truly believe that God has a plan, then why do I need to worry about who I'm attracting right now. Right. I believe that God will put that perfect person right in front of me. Perfect for me. And so I'm not really attracting anyone right now, but I have no doubt it'll happen.

What have you learned about yourself to know that when they arrive that you'll be ready to receive them?

I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. I don't know if I'm gonna be ready to receive. I believe that it might be hard. It might be a little difficult and challenging at first, but I don't believe that relationships are meant to be easy. We have to work through them. Right. But I want someone who's willing to do the work with me.

Wait, hold on. You're not going to be the Indian Cinderella with the glass slipper?

No, I'm not going to be the Indian Cinderella.

It's not going to happen.

No.

Yeah, We've been sold this really interesting lie. And I want to ask you too. Another lie about we've been sold. And that is manifestation.

Yeah.

And I know this comes up in your work quite a bit because a lot of. So it's mainly women. I'm sure you work with some men. It's mainly women that are attracted to your. Your work with women. There's a lot of conditioning from society. I don't care if it's Indian culture, Asian culture, American culture. There's a shit ton of programming. Like, it just happens, you know? And so it's not to blame the programmers. It's to be sovereign and resist the program by just loving it and accepting it for. For what exactly it is.

Yeah.

It's these people that are giving us their garbage, their gifts. And one of the biggest garbage gifts, I think, out there in spiritual land right now is this story of law of attraction and manifestation.

Yes.

What do you believe to be a complete lie about loa and manifestation?

That you can just seriously just sit there and think about it and the shit's gonna like, appear like. No, it's not just about sitting. I'm gonna manifest this. I'm gonna sit here and just think about it and hope that it comes. And I'm gonna just like rewire myself and do all these things. But you're not taking any action. I feel like a lot of times people with law of attraction manifestation, they're like, I'm gonna sit, I'm gonna think about it, I'm gonna journal about it. I might even say it out loud, but they're not actually putting themselves out there. They're not taking the action to manifest and bring that thing to life. It's more so it seems like a very passive type of practice. Yeah, that's how I feel about that.

So then what's the truth about it? I mean, what, like if you were to take a breath and float like 30,000ft above all the BS in the spiritual world about manifestation, what could you see to be actually true? Like, what's the true path of manifestation?

I feel like you ask yourself, what do I want? You get really clear on that and then you do whatever you can do to make that happen. That's it. It's just you don't let these obstacles or opportunities. Right. I'm not trying to sound cheeky here a cliche, but it's like these so called obstacles are. Is just another opportunity. It's just an, you know, or someone says no to you and you feel rejected. That doesn't mean that you stop. It means you knock on another door. So I feel like if I were just a bird looking over at all these people trying to manifest things, I'd be like, it's really not that serious. And it actually pretty simple. Get clear on what you want and do and don't stop until you get it. Yeah.

Do you, do you follow any methodology like the Ikigai, you know, the Venn diagram, where it's like, what does the market need? What will you get paid for? What do you love doing and what are you good at? And in the center of that there's like your greatest joy, your greatest expression. In other words, what's your path for clarity on finding the thing that you want to do?

So I pay attention to how I feel. I'm a generator in human design. I don't know if you know anything about human design.

I just got this book that's about. They just sent it to me. It's like human design made simple.

Yeah. Okay, good.

Interested in it?

I'm a generator, so all this stuff is cool.

It's human design. What's the other one? Enneagram.

Yeah.

And then there's the gene keys and all this stuff. Who knows?

So as a generator, I feel things deeply in my gut. So the practice that I've really been in deeply is just like, if I don't feel it in my gut, if it doesn't feel like a resounding yes, I'm an absolute no to it. It has to excite me. It has to feel fun. And I feel like that's where a lot of times people get Law of Attraction and manifestation. All wrong. They're just like. And they're not clear on what they want because they're like, what do I think I want based on society, programming versus what do I feel? Right? Like, how do I actually want to feel in the situation? So any service that I put out there, any program, any offering, any episode, whatever I do, like, I have to be behind it. I have to feel excited. That's the only way that I can really market it. That's the really way that I can bring it to the public. If I'm not clear about what I want and if I'm not excited about it, it's not going to work.

Yeah, excitement's an interesting word. That's a. You're a big word person, obviously, right? Say it out loud.

Yeah.

In many of the teachings that I've learned and in the studies that I've done with nlp and also just like, listening to Tony Robbins and Napoleon Hill and Bob Proctor and just all the giants, you know, has there been this through line in certain words that really provide clarity to find one's purpose? And if not just specific words, is there specific phrases or incantations? A personal practice, if you will, to use words to move you in the direction of your purpose?

I talk to myself like I am a world star athlete. I coach myself in that way. I treat myself like I can do this, right? Like, when I talk to myself, it is like, vasavi, you got this. Even on the way driving here, Josh, I bumped some reggae, some old school reggae, and I was like, we got this. This interview is going to be awesome. We're going to be unhinged. It's going to be great. We're just going to say what.

We're definitely unhinged.

We're definitely. I was pumping myself up because I noticed myself feeling just like a little. Little bit of nerves. I always get that right before a podcast interview. So I push myself. I push myself to my growth edge. Like, what does that growth edge look like for me? Oh, maybe that means that I show up to this podcast interview and I allow my excitement to shine through. Like, I'm. I'm a huge fan of, like, sharing your excitement with other people. Because I feel like as we've gotten older, it's like, it's not cool to be excited. Like, we just need to be chill.

Who the hell says that?

I don't know, but it's like, I think my excitement is. Is pretty freaking awesome. That's stuff that I get off on my excitement. That's what gets me Going. That's what gets me moving.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's fall. You know, it's interesting because there has been, like, this platitude that I've heard about purpose. A lot of people that write in are fairly young. And then, of course, I have older people, too, but the younger people are, like, really lost in their purpose. They have no map, they have no guidance. That's why I've created the Authentic Abundance process, because I'm just like, gosh, I went through it for freaking 15 years. This has been, like, this decade process of me actually getting clear on what it is I'm here to do. And I'll tell you, that shit has changed.

Wow.

Like, when I first started, it was something. And I've gotten to this point at 44, and I'm like, yeah, I just want to help myself and everyone else see life through a different lens. You know, the Pentagon that I was sharing with you. But it's been this clarity process that. That words have been a huge part of it. And you're a word Smith. You've written a book. Your whole mission in the world, it feels like, is about using word as a way not just to process, but also to claim. Right. Divinity, sovereignty of self.

Yes.

Has there been another phrase I'm really looking for, like, whatever your internal script is here that might help somebody who's younger and lost.

Oh, man. Well, first of all, you know, you will, like, just become obsessed with yourself and get to really know yourself, but.

Obsessed in a healthy way.

In a healthy way. Like, really?

Like, how does that work?

Just get, like, wake up in the morning and ask yourself, like, what do I want to do today? What do I want to feel today? What do I want to experience today? Like, make it about you. Because I think so often we wake up in the morning and we are externally focused. And, like, what's. What is this person texting me? What's on social media? What is the news? What's happening in the news right now, in the world, in the government, all of that stuff. Instead, check yourself. Focus on yourself first and ask yourself, what do I want to do today? How am I feeling today? What do I want to experience today? And the one phrase that I always say to myself, I. It's nothing super profound, Josh. I just tell myself, you got this, babe. I say that to myself all the time. You got this. Because that's the thing that I struggle with the most. My internal dialogue is telling me, you can't handle this. You're not capable. Something about capability is huge. For me, like, this voice in my head that tells me, you can't do this. I think it was also. Cause I was told no a lot as a child. I wasn't allowed to go to sleepovers, wasn't allowed to go to part. I wasn't allowed to do a lot of the kids. Things that we do as kids, you know? So I. My inner dialogue often tells me, you can't do this. So what I want the younger generation to know is to, like, first of all, you have time. You have plenty of time. You're like, you're fine. You're okay. But second of all, like, you got this. Like, just have fun with your life. Don't, like, take yourself seriously, but don't take yourself too seriously either, because you have so much life ahead of you.

My buddy Luke's story, I think, you know, his wife Allison.

I love Allison.

Yeah.

And I love Luke. Yeah.

Okay. So he. He was on the pod once, and he goes, I think seriousness is a mental health disorder when people take things so seriously.

Yeah.

But I look back on my life and just a continuous unwinding, actually, of hyper vigilance. You know, being raised with a bipolar mother. The new story, the new identity that I'm creating is actually to have compassion for everything that's transpired.

Yeah.

And that's easy to intellectualize. It's easy for me to, like, say that out loud. But in this healing construct, really, that you've created, healing, I think, is a byproduct of expression. Right. Because the opposite of expression is depression. So in order to express, one has to be honest about what's depressing them in the first place.

Yeah.

I wonder what the bifurcation is with people where they may be really expressive, but they're not actually healed. They're loud. They say anything they want. They have no filter. And then they say things like, well, it's just my truth, brother. No, it's just my truth.

Absolutely.

You can't accept my truth. I'm not going to dim my light for you. I mean, what a thing to say. It's the most passive aggressive, spiritual, narcissistic, bypassing frame. I just. I see that for what it is, yet it's all over social.

Yes.

What's the truth in this equation of connecting, saying it out loud and also healed or healing at the same time?

It's what we were talking about before. It's about discernment. Right. It's about being discerning about what you're actually saying. I always say this. Sometimes you don't need to say it out loud. Sometimes you need to shut the fuck up and actually tune in and actually tune in. And I'm like, I'm so in agreement with you that, like, I'm just speaking my truth. But it's like you're causing a lot of harm right now, actually, because of just your delivery and how you're saying it. It's not just about what you're saying. It's how you say it. Delivery, tone of voice is everything. So I think for the people out there who are loud but not healed, take some time to be with yourself. Take some time to sit in silence. Take some time to actually connect back with yourself. I'm not an extrovert. I would. If I were to label myself, I would label myself as an introvert. So I spend a lot of time with myself. I spend a lot of time in silence and solitude, and I freaking love it. But I feel like a lot of times when those people who are like, I'm just speaking my truth, it's like they're word vomiting because they haven't spent the time to actually process on their own what they're going through. So they go to social or. Or they go to, you know, other spaces or community places, and they're like, this is my truth. But it's like, no, you actually haven't spent the time to process what you're actually going through, make sense out of it, and speak from a place that's more discerning and intentional.

Yeah, I feel like it's their truth in that moment, but we can also feel the energetics of. Of their truth being connected to a lower version of themselves that's describing it as their truth.

You can feel it. You can feel it.

You can feel it.

You can feel it even without them saying a word. You can. I mean, their words are just loud, but you can feel the energy of the words.

And how do you. How have you. This is interesting. How have you sharpened your intuition to be able to feel what someone's saying instead of just hear what they're saying?

I would say that I've worked pretty hard on being more connected to my body, so I just. I can just feel it. I just. When someone's talking, like, even when I hear you talk, I feel very calm inside of my body listening to you talk. Every word that you're using, Josh, is so intentional, is so mindful, is so discerning. So I think the way that I've tapped back into my intuition is just I basically listen to everything, and nothing at the same time, like, I'm hearing you, but I'm. What I'm really doing is feeling the energy of your words, and that's just taken time and practice.

And where do you feel it? Like, I know for me, when I can sense that someone's full of shit. Yeah. I think I, I actually physically feel it in my stomach.

Yeah.

Now if I, I. If I'm getting the energy from them, that their words may be actually harmful to me or other people, then I start to feel it on my heart chakra.

Yeah.

So I feel it like gut or heart. How do you make sense of that yourself, where you feel it when someone's speaking?

I feel it in my chest the minute when I feel like someone. I mean, I've had clients like this who come to me and they're. They're. They're unhealed in a certain area of their life, and they come to me and they tell me something, and I can. I can feel it in my chest. Oh, they are constricted right now. You can just feel the con. That's all we are is just energy beings. Right. So I just, I can feel that in my chest when I, When I hear someone saying something and I'm like, you're full of. Or you're not in alignment with what you're saying right now. Something's not matching up.

So as a guide, do you consider yourself a guide or a coach? Like, how do you label what you do?

I say neurodivergent therapist because I am neurodivergent myself, and I work with neurodivergent creatives and entrepreneurs, and I'm a visibility coach.

And for people that don't know what neurodivergence is, what is that?

In simplest terms, our brains are wired differently. People who have adhd, bipolar disorder, autism, our brains are just wired differently. And so we just require different systems and structures to help us be consistent, stay on track, create better habits for ourselves. Yeah. So I've had to find my flow, I had to find my rhythm based on the way my brain works.

And so when with someone that's neurodivergent, how do they process information differently than someone who's not?

I find that my clients who are neurodivergent and myself do. We process very, very, very quickly.

Like, you already know what somebody's gonna say halfway through their sentence.

And I've had to learn how to, you know, because it. It can. It can be tempting to want to finish people's sentences because you can, but that's why you have to slow down, tap back in within yourself and not do that when someone is talking.

Have you ever gone deep into breathwork?

I haven't gone deep. I did breath work a lot when I was a kid. My mom would take me to India. We would stay at ashrams in India, but went, you know, like, holy.

Oh, yeah.

Holy grounds. Yeah. So she. Because I was. I was a rebellious kid, so she wanted to, like, put me in the ashram when I was a young kid. And I did yoga breath work starting at the age of 12. But have I gone deep into it? No, I have not.

Yeah, I. And this is not me helping you. I just love it because I shared with you we did some breath work before we started, Right?

Yeah.

I love it so much because I have had still year after year, residue and crud come up from the bottom of my well.

Yeah.

That allows me to see it for what it is. Like, just recently, we had a team retreat about six months ago, and I went deep with Fish and with some friends and my staff who flew out here.

Yeah.

And in the breathwork, I realized that I was still projecting some of the pornographic energy onto my woman. I was still projecting, but I wouldn't have been able to tap into that awareness unless I was in that state. And I think what we're all looking for, and I wonder how you see this, Tony Robbins talks about state. There's psychedelic states that we can put ourselves in. There's altered states we can put ourselves in. Even hard exercise like a marathon or a 20x. We're all seeking these states. And Steven Kotler and Jamie Wheal talk about this a lot in the Flow Genome Project. The state, the altered state of success, or the flow state. In other words, getting ourselves in state can be so radically healing because we have insight in those states that we normally wouldn't have just driving a car or whatever else. Do you ever put yourself in specific states to get new awareness?

Yeah. I love this question. So anytime I'm going to host an event, so I also do emcee work. Anytime I'm about to host an event, before I leave my house, I will dance, I will shake it out. I will obviously do a dress rehearsal with myself. So I, like, get into performer mode. Right. And so I do lots of things to get into that energetic state. Before I record a podcast interview, I pray that's how I get into my creative, energetic state. I pray before I talk to a client, before I get on Zoom or before I get on the phone. I'll always Just ask myself, like, what is the purpose of the work that I'm doing today? Right. Just like tapping myself back into the purpose of the work that I'm doing today. So there are practices that I have just to get myself back into a place of feeling centered and grounded so that I can actually speak from a centered and grounded place. So, yeah, lots of fun things that I do to get into a state.

What's one of the ones that maybe you've never shared or maybe you're interested in doing?

Well, one that I've never shared. You want me to tell you? Yeah, I love to masturbate before doing things. Yeah, I. I love to state, yeah, I practice getting into self pleasure. I mean, I am literally feeling myself.

And I'm just not what I thought you were going to say.

I know, Josh, I mean, we've got to say it out loud. But that's, I mean, I would be lying if I didn't say that. That is something. Self pleasure practice for me is very important. Once again, I'm single, I'm child free, I don't sleep with random guys. So someone has to be pleasing me and it's me, right? So that's what I do and that helps me. And yeah, and that for me is like maybe three, four days a week. You know what I mean? Because I think pleasure is something that we as adults don't gravitate towards. We're just like work, work, work. And so for me, if I'm going to be doing work, work, creative work of any kind, getting on a podcast, recording a video, doing this, like, I want to make sure that I feel as good possible. So I'm going to do whatever I can. And self pleasure is one of those practices.

Yeah. What a great answer. Totally not what I thought I was going to say.

And I promise you I was not expecting to say that either, but that's what came to my mind. Yeah.

Yeah. I just feel like the prayer is such a huge element. Like, and I love the way that we prayed before we podcasted because prayer is a state. It's literally a cleansing and a wiping of anything that's not loving. You know, when we're praying, we are actually putting ourselves in a spell. Right. That's what I think. Prayer is a state of its own. And that's why, you know, speaking of your Indian culture, there's so much devotion and prayer baked into that culture.

Thank you for saying that.

But then on the other side of that culture, there's the caste system, there's, you know, normalizing children being B. There's a dark side.

Oh, yeah.

Of the Indian culture. How have you held both of those worlds?

It has, as it's hard even to this day. I was raised in a very Indian household. Right. I was too Americanized for my family and too brown for the white kids at school. It was very hard for me growing up having to balance both cultures. We have a beautiful culture, beautiful religion. I'm a Hindu, but on the dark side of that, I'm a Brahmin. I'm a Hindu Brahmin. I'm the top of the caste system. Our family's the very top of the caste system. I didn't marry a Brahmin. My sister married a white guy. Neither one of us married within the caste. My parents were very accepting of it. They were not happy about it at first, but they came around. But it's been hard because there's so many things about the culture and religion that I love and that I was raised with and I appreciate, and I wouldn't trade it in for the world. But then there's so many things, like the oppression of women, like the way, you know, you can have the most educated woman in the world. And, you know, my mom, for example, is a cardiologist. But she was never in touch with her body. She was never in touch with her femininity and her sexuality. I didn't see that growing up. I saw a mother who worked all the time, all the time. I didn't see a mother who prioritized her pleasure. Right. So it was hard. It's still, to this day, I still am. Like, I have to talk to myself kindly, especially when I feel guilty for doing things for pleasure. Like, for example, I was telling you this. I'm going to New York in March, March 3rd through 7th. It's my annual New York City trip. I felt guilty about it. I was like. Like, you know, I. I shouldn't be going this and that, but I was like, no, but this is my pleasure. My pleasure is important to me. So that's something that I didn't learn growing up in. In the Indian culture. Right. We were. Go to school, be a doctor, get married, have kids. I didn't do any of that. I got married and then I got divorced. So, yeah, it was. It was. It. It was difficult. And I think I'm older now. Obviously, my mom isn't on my case to do certain things because I've already been married, gotten divorced. She knows that I don't want to have kids, so she doesn't like Put pressure on me to do anything, but it was definitely hard. Very conflicting messages.

Growing up, what did you learn most from your divorce?

You know what's so funny is that I can walk away if I want to. I never thought that I would be the kind of person that could walk away from a relationship. I'm a Taurus. I'm very loyal. I could not believe that when I was actually ready to be done, that I was done because I am loyal to a fault. Like, I don't leave relationships. I never got married thinking that I was gonna get divorced. I thought this was gonna be forever, Right? But what I learned about myself is that I can be alone and I enjoy my own company. I also learned that if I don't wanna be in a situation, I can take care of myself and I can leave. I don't have to be in that situation anymore. I wanna say this about my ex husband. He was a wonderful man. I have nothing against him. We just. We fell in love at the age of 22 and 24. I was 22, 24. I got married when I was 28. Wonderful human being accepted me in all my bipolarity. And he knew everything. I mean, that was that agape love. We had a very beautiful love. So I have no hard feelings, but we just grew apart. And I left because I just felt like we were just gonna keep hurting each other.

Why'd you grow apart?

Because I was growing and he wasn't. Yeah, I was growing and he wasn't. I was always immersed in, like, self development, personal growth, and he was just very much. I was just, like, dragging him. Once again, it was fixed. Trying to fix him. He was another project for me. But he was very loving. Like, I. I will never say anything unkind about him because he was. He was very good to me.

So you were studying personal development, and then what was he doing?

He had a business. He ran gas stations. He ran a gas station. And then that didn't do well. And then I said to him, maybe you should try medical billing and coding. So he said, okay, I'll do that. So my mother put him through. Through school to do that. So it was just a lot of me trying to make him into a man.

Do you have a sense? And I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you have a sense that he was really grappling and struggling, finding his purpose? Or maybe he didn't even care about purpose. He just wanted sustenance. And you wanted. And you wanted something different. I mean, your name Literally means sustenance.

Sustenance. I think what he wanted was to be able to provide, and I think he didn't know how to do that. I think he had the best of intentions, but there's so much that I can say about this. But I just think he had every desire to be a provider and it just wasn't happening.

It wasn't in his cards?

No, it wasn't on his cards.

One of the things I love most about your culture is the definitions of karma and dharma. It's so powerful. And even the astrology, there's a calendar that's different. There's two different calendars. There may even be more in the astrology. Do you use astrology for any decision making in your life?

Totally. My mother had an astrologer growing up who. He died when he was 99 years old. So we grew up with astrology. Even when we got married, we get married at a specific time. I got married at 6:30 in the morning on a Saturday because that was considered an auspicious time. We get married at specific times based on the chart. If I were to meet somebody in this season of my life, I would definitely get ourselves charts compared and make sure that we're compatible. Like, I believe in all of that.

It's so interesting. So I've. I've gotten introduced recently to Deborah Silverman, who's a. Oh yeah, she's great big astrologer. Her book is called I Don't Believe in Astrology, which I think is funny. Yeah, because we're all looking for the map, aren't we? Like, whether it's the frameworks that you give in your book for helping people find the clarity and then speak it out loud and then have the courage to do so. Or whether it's enneagram or human design or astrology. I think we need to create one massive map that has every single technology stacked on top of one another and then create the through line through it. Wouldn't that be amazing?

You need to create it.

I mean, that seems like a ton of work. I don't feel super called to do that, but someone please do that. Because each one of them has truths. Right. And reality is whatever we say it is, which is such a paradox. Do you ever find that as you're moving forward in your work that the layer you thought was going to be is something different? And if so, were you ever surprised by the way that your career has taken you?

My career has taken me all over. I don't know if your audience knows this. I'm about to share it with them. Yeah, I went to, I got, I have two masters, a master's in education, master's in social work. I went to Columbia University in New York. And then after that I became a coach. And then after that I became a plant based chef. And then after that I became a yoga teacher. I went to India and I studied Ashtanga yoga in Rishikesh, which is considered a holy city in India. And then I went to rehab. And then I was a former TV host. You know, I've done a lot of things in my life and every single thing that I have done and explored is all because I was just curious to fuck around and find out. Like, I just wanted to know. I was just, I was just curious. I was just curious to find out, like, can I do this? Like, I went to culinary not because I wanted to cook for people. I wanted to learn how to cook for myself, right? And then I do cook for people now. Friends come over. I wanted to go to yoga teacher training, not so I could teach yoga to people, because I wanted to reconnect with my body. I became a former. I became a TV host because I wanted to be seen. It is a very natural need for us as human beings to want to be seen. And I love the camera and I love to entertain and I love to educate people. So there have been layers, right? And every layer that I peel back just gets me back close, closer to myself. I love what I'm working on right now. I love that I'm working with clients on their visibility and helping them be seen. But who knows? That could change in a year. And that's what I want your audience, I want everyone knowing, like, you're allowed to change your mind if you don't want to do something. Like, if you decide that you don't want to do this podcast and you want to rebrand it, you're allowed to change your mind. So if there's anything that I've learned in my career trajectory is that you're always allowed to change your mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I am going to. I'm going to say it right here. I've never said this on a podcast. Very soon there will be an AI interview where I interview live a Alan Watts GPT because the wisdom that you just shared is exactly what he just shared.

Really?

And he says that you have no obligation to be the person that you were five minutes ago. Yeah, it's one of the best phrases ever. Like, it's so true in every way. We can feel it And I think what holds us hostage is this shame or expectation that we have to be. No, like, I have to be Josh Trent, known as the podcast. I was, like, very, very soul shattering and very uncomfortable to go from wellness force to wellness and wisdom. And I'm sure whatever else I'm gonna do, it'll shatter in some way. But like the. The adage that the phoenix rises from the ashes or we have to be beat down and broken to actually grow anew. No, that's what happens in nature. If you look at Alan Watts wisdom, or you look at the wisdom of nature, when a tree dies, it gives growth to the other trees. So if you look back on your whole timeline, like, what is the most painful part of you that had to die in order for say it out loud to be real?

This belief that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. That. That I. That I am crazy. And I think that that started when I was very young. It got solidified when I got the bipolar disorder diagnosis. Oh, shit, this bitch is crazy. Like, it just solidified that belief even more. But the most painful thing that I have had to outgrow and let go of is that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. Like, I always believe that. Like, there's just something wrong with me. I will never attain it, whatever it is, right? Money, success, the love. I'll never attain it because I am. There's something fundamentally broken and wrong with me. So I've had to let that go. And does it still try to creep up? Absolutely. I don't want to lie to your audience. It still creeps up. There are still times where it's like, oh, my God, why am I feeling this way? When the thoughts just get too loud, they just get too loud. But then what do we do? We say it out loud. We feel less crazy. We don't keep that shit in our head.

Yeah, well, I'm gonna say it out loud.

Yeah.

One piece of me that's a part that I am still saying out loud. I'll say it right here is this phrase that has come up for years and years and years, and the phrase is, how am I going to do it all? How am I going to do it all? But you know what I get in the wisdom from that question that it's actually not that question at all. That question comes from my protector. It comes from a part of me that saw just really brutal, brutal lessons that my parents learned, right? Brutal lessons of, like, love falling apart and, you know, career and health and my mom's bipolar disorder and, like, how challenging that's been for me, you know, with respect to. To what you're still working through. God, it's so hard to be. And I'm not saying this because I'm a victim. I'm just, like, saying it out loud. Right. It's so challenging to be the son of a bipolar mom. I get it so hard. And the real hardness of it is that I love her with my whole heart and I know what's possible in the world. And all the different therapies and all the different. Different things that exist now that didn't exist when she was given her diagnosis. And also just the boundaries that someone who's not conscious of their disease, the boundaries that are crossed and the relationships that are just ripped apart and torn apart. I mean, it's just so hard. And at the bottom of it all, I'm just this son that wants to love her and wants to trust her and wants to be there for her and wants her to have the best life as she does for me. But the ending of the movie is not always happy when it comes to bipolar, because the diseases can progress unless one like yourself is conscious of the healing path and is asking real questions. And you know, your bipolar label, you know, your stamp and label can become one of the greatest gifts of your life, if you see it that way.

Yep.

Or it can become a death sentence. It's just wherever you choose to put attention. So saying all of that, I think the reason why I've. And I'm saying it out loud, this phrase of like, how am I going to do it all? Is because I had example after example after example of the people that I loved the most not being able to.

Do it all right?

And so there's been this recapitulation, this reorganization in my psyche and in my heart around, well, I came from them. So therefore, on a cellular level, I am a part of them. But I'm also a unique soul with his own purpose, passion, dreams, and mission that has nothing to do with their life.

Life.

And so that cover question. I promise I'll get to the question.

No, I love it.

The COVID question that presents itself that says, how am I going to do it all? It's actually not that. It's how am I going to love myself through it all? That's the real question. How am I going to love myself through it all? Has nothing to do with me having the capacity or the faculty to do it all. That's the wrong question. That's actually an immature question. But it comes from a younger Part of me that was bruised and battered by the parents that I chose. The adult question, the mature question is, how can I love myself through it all? I love that, Josh, because that's the real. Either focus on healing, which creates less anxiety, less depression, or how am I gonna do it all, which creates anxiety? What do you make of that?

I love it. I love the reframe. I think I love the reframe. I love that you saying, how am I gonna love myself through it all? Gives you an opportunity to practice.

Practice?

Yeah. You're. You're in that moment when you ask yourself, how can I love myself through it all? You're giving yourself the opportunity to practice self love, like, and actually put it into practice. How am I going to do it all just is going to make you spiral.

Yeah.

So I love that question. How can I love myself through it all?

That's it.

I'm going to take that from you.

Take it.

Okay.

All wisdom is borrowed.

Yes. All. Exactly.

Think about all the wisdom that you've collected in order to write the book.

Exactly.

Has there been one person that just shines like. Like, who was a mentor that really helped you put out the book, that really helped you carve a path?

I wouldn't be where I am today without my mentor, Lisa Nichols. I'm not. I don't know if you're familiar.

Oh, she's amazing.

Yeah.

So Lisa, she's one of the OGs in the Secret.

Yeah, she's the OGs in the Secret. She was my first ever mentor. This was back when I was. So this is 2011. 2012. I met her. I call her my forever mentor because I feel like, yes, there are so many people that I've learned from throughout the year, but she was the one. I mean, I was 29 years old, new coach, new therapist, and Lisa had me stand up in front of the entire group. I was in her Global Leadership Program mastermind. I had never been in a Mastermind. I spent $15,000 to be in this mastermind. Worth every penny. And then I hired a private coach as well, another $10,000. So I never spent that much money on myself before. This was a long time ago, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa's had me stand up in front of everybody and share my story of having bipolar disorder. And she is the reason why I openly talk about having bipolar disorder. And I don't keep that shit a secret because she's the one that said to me, like, baby, there are gonna be so many people that need to hear what you have to say. There are so many people that are struggling with not just bipolar disorder, but other mental health challenges as well. She is the mentor for me. She taught me how to storytell. She taught me how to take. Take my. Like, just look at life as one big story and how to turn that into something that can impact people. So I think in stories all the time, like, anything that happens to me throughout the day, I always ask myself, like, how do I turn this around and help my audience with this? This just happened. Whether it's like something that happened at the car dealership or something that happened here. Like, it could be anything. She taught me how to think in stories. She taught me how to look at everything that's happening in my life. Good, bad, ugly, and find the gold in it. That's because of her.

What makes a good story?

I feel like a good story. Like, there needs to be a defining moment. There needs to be why it mattered to you and the lesson that you learned from it. Three parts. What's the defining moment? Why does this matter to you? Why should anyone care about this? But most importantly, why does it matter to you? And how did it shape your perspective? What did you learn from it?

Yeah, yeah. I feel the rule of thirds is so big in everything. Like, look at Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, separation, initiation, and return. Look at even Russell Brunson, you know, click funnels. There's the hook, the story, and the offer.

Yeah.

And then you were saying, what were.

Your three again, your defining moment, why it happened and what you learned or how it shaped your perspective? God.

Do you find that this rule of thirds just repeats itself over and over and over again in all disciplines?

This is the first time that I'm actually having that being brought to my awareness. So I will probably start to see it now, though, now that you've mentioned.

It, it makes sense. Even in identity transformation, which is essentially what you've done. Right. You went from being an addict to being somebody that serves at a high level and writes a book. Like, there's. There's a story arc there.

Totally.

The story arc is unique to you, but I feel like the story arc is actually the same for all of us.

Yes.

It's the same damn thing repeated.

We all go through something. We're in a situation that we don't like. We want to get out of it. We want to be here. How do we get from point A to point B? And that's the story. That's what Lisa taught us. Right. You're here. You're now here. Take Your audience on this journey, how you got there.

This is the most beautiful part about being a real leader.

Yeah.

I have this phrase, I wonder how you resonate with this. I think you'll like it. And that is that a real leader holds a lantern. I even have T shirts made. It's part of our merch. Like. Like, if I'm holding up a lantern and I'm sharing my lessons and my vulnerability.

Yeah.

Not from a place of, like, ooh, look how vulnerable I am. But real, real vulnerability. I'm giving people permission to have that light shined on them as I shine it on myself. But what I fell into a trap with in my life as a trainer and even for a long time, being an early podcast host, is I was just all about shining light on other people.

Yeah.

But guess what part stays dark?

You.

I stay dark. If I'm holding a flashlight, just shining it on you, then the space between my hand and my chest is always black. There's no light that can be shined there because I'm literally living in a type of spiritual narcissist, actually.

Yeah.

I'm caught for. To quote Dr. Hawkins, I'm caught in pride. Yeah. And I can't ever get to courage or accept us or willingness to change my life or to be more integrated unless I take an honest look at where I'm stuck in pride.

Yeah.

What do you feel about that?

I feel like we. I love the concept of having the lantern. I think that's really a great image just to keep in my mind right now. Like, just being a leader is not just about. It's not. It's not about you. It's about. But it is also about you. It's not. It is, but it's not. That's what I'm trying to say. It's like, you gotta shine. Shine. You gotta go first. I always say this if you want people. I say this to my clients. If you want your audience to engage with you, you want your audience to be vulnerable with you, you gotta go first. Like, don't expect people to be vulnerable with you if you're not willing to go first. So as a leader, that's what I feel like. You want to lead people towards something, you need to go first. You want people to move through their shit and be vulnerable, then you need to be the first person to share. So that's how I feel about that.

Mic drop, mic drop, Massive mic drop. I have love. I just want to keep talking with you, but we'll do another one. Let's do Another podcast. Okay, what did we miss? When we look at this concept of saying it out loud, what exactly is.

Oh, my God. No one has ever asked me that question. When I say say it out loud in the book, what I'm talking about is say your thoughts out loud. It is your thoughts, right? It's like, what are you actually thinking? Because so many people struggle with having a cluttered mind. And so my approach is say it out loud. Get it out of your head. Get it out into the ether. Don't keep that shit inside. So it is anything that is eating you up, what is eating you up. And that could also mean your desires. That could also mean your dreams, Right. Like, your desires eat you up. Because you're like, I really want your pain could eat you up, too. Say it out loud. And I owe this to rehab. I owe this to group therapy. I owe this to aa. I owe this to the nine step programs that I used to go to where we're all in a group and we're just. No one's trying to fix each other. We're just saying it out loud. We're talking about what we're going through. We're talking about relapses. We're talking about our addiction. We're talking about cravings. We're just talking about it. We're allowing ourselves to say the thing that is taking up space in our mind so that we can have a mind that actually is thriving and that's peaceful within. That's what I want for everybody. I don't want you to keep that shit inside because that will eat you up. I think about my father. Like, I've already mentioned the man who didn't say a word when he should have. And now the man can't even talk. I don't want that. For your listeners and for your viewers, I want them to have a mind where they feel clear and they feel safe within themselves. So that's what it is. It is anything that's taking up space inside of you that's eating you up. That. That just needs to come out.

Wow. Well, we're both Taurus. We both see life through a very similar lens.

Yeah.

And I'm super grateful that you chose the path of creation.

Thank you.

Because you could have not. So I'm just honoring the path you chose.

I realized that I got really good at destroying my life, and so then I said, let's see if I can actually start creating my life. Yeah.

I think that's why people resonate.

Yeah.

Yeah. I really do. You know, I was having this visual. You said you think in stories a lot. Yeah, I was having this visual. So my lady, Carrie Michelle, is in the process of forming a women's group. And we were talking about. I've been leading a men's group here in Austin for almost four years. And the way you describe saying it out loud and giving people a space, especially with what you learn with aa, where there's no judgment and people are just sharing, it's so powerful in a container, if anybody wants to have a real container, this is the formula. And I wonder how you feel about this formula. It's having a leader who has a clear intention that creates a really great space that's safe and that's, like, peaceful. And then in that container, there's a structure where, you know, we have a grounding practice, there's a meditation, there's a drop in of some sort. And then we open the room for shares. A person shares for five minutes. There's a pause, and then we ask that person only two things because we never want to be their coach in a circle, right? We ask them, hey, impact for me was blank. Not making it about me, but just, you know, acknowledging what they shared. Impact for me was blank. Quick question for you. I'm wondering if, or could it be possible if abc.

Yeah.

And then you just shut up. And this is what people get wrong about groups is they try to coach the other person. There's no structure. There's no time. I got this from Johnny Blackburn. Shout out to Johnny Blackburn in. In 2014. And then he trained with John Weiland, who they. I believe they both got coaching from David Data, you know, the og when it comes to the. The way men can actually show up full in their lives, does that apply to women in the same way? This structure that I'm talking about, I love the structure.

So I have a group called say It Out Loud. It's based off my book, and I run my groups very similar to what you're saying. I always start with a grounding practice, and then I will open it up with a reading from my book. We use my book as curriculum. And then I will ask a question. You can journal about it, or you can just keep it in your mind. And then you talk. And my group is not me talking. My group is all about letting everyone else talk. Right. I have no problem saying it out loud. It's the women in my group that need to learn how to say it out loud. So it's very similar to yours. We have some sort of grounding ceremony. Breath work, meditation. I'll lead them through a visualization. We'll do a reading from my book. Then I'll ask a question and then they share and I'm just listening. And I'll ask if they're open to feedback. Or I'll usually ask a follow up question just to get them to keep talking. Because I truly believe when you keep saying it out loud, it will trigger other thoughts in your head. Like, have you ever been, like, creatively brainstorming, Josh? And you'll like, you'll be brainstorming and then another idea gets triggered and another because you're hearing yourself. So that's, that's what I'm training the women in my group to do, is to like, keep saying it out loud and let it start to trigger other thoughts in your head and you start to make sense out of the stuff that you're saying. You're like, oh, wait, I didn't think about it that way. Yeah, because you didn't hear yourself saying it. So you got to hear yourself say it. But that's how I run my groups as well. Very similar.

There's so much medicine in saying it out loud.

Yes.

I mean, it's so good. But sometimes the, the medicine of saying out loud can be bitter, but it's still good for you. It's like vegetables.

It's. Yeah, it can, it can listen. If you're not in the practice of saying it out loud. It can feel very vulnerable. It can feel very ex. Like you can feel very exposed. But I promise, find one person that you can talk to. And if you don't have one person that you can talk to, you can always talk to yourself. And always talk to yourself.

Beautiful. Tell people where they can buy the book.

You can buy the book everywhere. Amazon. You can go to vasavikumar.com it's available at Target, Barnes & Noble. Vasavikumar.com Order the.

Book. Yeah. Such a great, real conversation. I really like. You are a leader that's holding a lantern. Like, you've definitely talked about your life and I think that's why people trust you. It's trustable. We're looking for trust.

Now. Well, we're Tauruses, Josh. We're very.

Trustable. We're very trustable. But. Or yes. And because God only hears. Yes, yes, yes. And the authenticity that the world has always needed, that's been suppressed by society and even our loving parents. It's not to make these people wrong. Like, I'm actually exhausted with the conversation of fighting against society fighting against. Against indoctrination. Instead of fighting, let's just actually speak or say it out loud. The things that we actually want. And if we put our attention there without bypassing, sometimes we'll need to go into the.

Dark.

Yeah. But if we just put our attention in that light and in the things that we actually want to be true, I know that we'll have the lives in the world we all know in our soul is possible. Yes, it's real, but it starts with.

Us. Sorry, we have to speak life into what we want. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Well, I've really enjoyed this so much, so thanks for being my guest. We'll do it.

Again.

Yeah. All right. And also, you guys read this book. Is it Audible as.

Well? It's on Audible and I.

Narrated. Did you narrate.

It? I'm a voiceover artist, so it's gonna be.

Good. Now you have to buy it. I would recommend Audible when you go for a walk. So until we see you and experience you and you get to be with us on your next walk or the next episode, I'm wishing you love, wellness, but most importantly, peace and power. You cannot have power unless it comes from peace. We'll talk with you.