Want More Money? Forget EVERYTHING You Know + Do THIS For Abundance In 2024

By the time I was 26, I was making millions, tens of millions of dollars trading, which is what I thought was going to be my purpose and to give me this sense of fulfillment. But I felt, paradoxically, broke, and I do not feel abundant just having a lot of money. What does it mean to be truly wealthy? Because I was wealthy at 26 and I didn't feel wealthy. It's not how much dollars or digits you have in a Swiss bank account, it's what are you creating in the world with it? Wealth comes etymologically from well being, and well being comes from the wheel, and wheel comes from chakras, wheels of energy. It's being in our chakras and being fully secure in all of our energy centers, and recognizing ourselves as, first, a level beyond even the physical body on this energetic level or the soul level. And then once we're fully embodied, then we can recognize that we take this wheel out into the world.

Yeah.

It's really being brave enough to step off that wheel that we've all been on and recognizing that our task to be truly wealthy and really to define that in abundance for ourself has to be a process of. Of really meeting the unmet tasks of our parents. Really deciding. The buck stops here.

Jason, brother, it has been a while that this has been ruminating and marinating in the cosmic soup. Welcome to the podcast.

I am so pumped to be here, man. It's so cool.

So cool. We are in Austin, Texas. You are in. Your home base, is in New York.

Yep.

In the country. And it's so interesting how the topography and the geography of where we live literally informs our body and informs ourselves. And I was thinking about this in going over the abundance archetype, this incredible program, you guys, that we're going to talk about today, I just totally respect how much effort and energy that you've informed yourselves based on your own life experience to encapsulate and now to have your heart pour out to the world. But I'm really curious, man. Like, when we look at this concept of abundance.

Yeah.

Is it truly where we live, where we came from, and the amalgamation of the intelligence that we, I guess you could say, absorb and embody along the way? Or is it something different? Because I think about where you came from, and we're going to get into the different fragments of your story and whatnot. Maybe a great place for us to begin this conversation of what abundance actually is, is how is that definition changed for you along the way, you know, from the beginning. 26, 27 Working in the investment world and the, the stocks and bonds and everything that I guess is very heady for most of us to understand. Sure. And having that completely revolutionize this path for you on health and teaching others, how is the, how has that changed for you, this even concept, man of. Of abundance?

Yeah. Well, I think it's good to start with a little bit about my biography because the story kind of tells that, and then I could kind of define what abundance means to me today.

Yes. And let's go way back too. Let's pull the E break and go to the very beginning.

Yeah, well, you know, I grew up in New Jersey and it was a pretty mainstream thing, you know, playing sports and educated with what I thought was a good mainstream education. And I went to the University of Virginia and you know, here's a top university at the business school. I graduate, I go out into the world and I have very, very early success. By the time I was 26, I was making millions, tens of millions of dollars trading. And I was working for Paul Tudor Jones, who's one of the most famous visionary investors and traders and philanthropists and geniuses of all time. And the paradox was, was that I was £330.

That's a big paradox.

It was a paradox, man. I was like, to the extent that I was successful financially, I was that unsuccessful with every other aspect of my life. It was like the complete polarity. I was £330. I was getting sick, I was having these infections. I got this purple leg infection where it's like coming up my leg. And I was in the hospital getting pumped up with antibiotics, couldn't find clothes that fit. I'm like sweating wherever I go. You know, relationships were not even a dream at that kind of place in my life. And I was like literally living a larger than life life on all ends of the spectrum. And so I got just struck with this moment that like, here I have all of this money, which is what I thought was going to be my purpose and to give me this sense of fulfillment. But I felt paradoxically broken. Really did. And so I started off on this exercise journey. I met this trainer named Chaba in New York City who happened to have a copy of how to Eat, Move and Be Healthy in his little basement dungeon gym in the financial district of New York City down by Wall Street.

That's one hell of a breadcrumb.

It's a big breadcrumb.

We'll unpack that breadcrumb. It's a big breadcrumb.

So we worked out for two Years, very aggressively, with the same kind of intensity that I had on Wall street, just like full throttle. And it was very much like, you know, probably like a crossfit mentality, Just no pain, no gain. And for two years, I worked my butt off in the gym and lost £170 just from exercise. And, you know, beginning to change my diet and pulling back on the excess of partying and things like that. But I got to 170 pounds, and now I had the bank account, and now I had the physical body, but I still felt depressed, I still felt flat. And I realized that all I did was transfer my addiction from work and access to now exercise. And that's when I realized that this thing that I'm seeking for, this abundance, this fulfillment, this purpose, is an inside game. And I've been playing the outer game. And I needed to do some kind of exchange rate for outer to inner.

Yeah.

And that. That led me on a journey of. Of meeting Paul check in 2009, and then many other great teachers and practices along the way, and, you know, ultimately leading on this long journey to the abundance archetype. But so abundance for me, you know, we talked earlier, that etymology is, to me, it's like an amazing way to be a detective about words. Anytime I hear a word like spirituality, what does that even mean? Like, I want to know what that means. Like, if you ask a hundred people, what does it mean to be spiritual? Or what is God, what does it mean to surrender, detachment? These words that we throw out there in the spiritual community, what do they actually mean? And when you go to the roots of the words, you can uncover really big hidden messages. And so I did that for abundance because I wanted to. You know, I'm making a course on abundance.

Yeah.

What does this actually mean? And so abundance comes from the root word unda, U n D a like abunda, abundance. And interestingly, that, you know, a bun is to overflow. And then there's a dance in the word, right? To overflow with the dance of life.

I love that.

But unda comes from the Sanskrit word varuna. And varuna is the personified laws of nature in water, the intelligence of water. And so all of these abundance words are all about overflowing and being fluid. You know, the water is 99.9% of who we are on a molecular count. It's literally unto us. And so being, like, recognizing that abundance is the water on the inside of us, the intelligence on the inside, and being able to flow with life. You know, in yoga, they talk about the Peak of yogic perfection is being in the middle, in pleasure or pain. It's riding the ways of life and still knowing who you are and being true to who you are. So abundance is really about going on the inside. And the water is often a symbol of the unconscious mind. So it's about beginning to look at your beliefs and your thoughts and your feelings and your actions in your life and where do they come from and really take agency for your own decisions and what you want to produce in your life. What does abundance mean to you? And ultimately, it's about finding this search of beauty, which is the ultimate question, right? Like where? Where does all this beauty that I'm attracted to everywhere in my life, where does it all ultimately come from? And it's that same kind of reversal where you realize that this abundance that we've been looking for on the outside as the objects of our life, that there's a reversal where we, the subject, become the object. We start looking at ourself and we start understanding who we truly are, why we're here, what's our purpose, what's our unique skills, gifts and talents? What do we want to do with our one wild and crazy precious life, as I think Mary Oliver said. And it's like, that's the journey, is that it's this process of individuation and finding out who we really are and what we really want. And I'll just leave it with this one kind of chilling metaphor is that when I read Viktor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning, yeah, he talks about being in the Holocaust and seeing people being walked into the gas chambers singing songs about life, saying yes to life. And I think that for me, that really chilling example when I meditate on that, it's like that's abundance, is that we can't always control the circumstances in our life. We don't know what's going to happen to us. There are things that are out of our control. But the one thing that nobody can take away, the one thing that nothing in our life can take away is our spirit, our attitude towards life, our mood, our vibe, and being willing to say yes to life despite the circumstances. Because people think that abundance is about being happy. But happy comes from happenstance, which means to be lucky. It's not about being happy, it's not about being lucky. It's about knowing who you are and staying true to that, like a warrior, no matter what happens in your life. And this word, luxuries, which we think is abundance, comes from the root word Lux. And lux is light. To be filled with light. That's abundance. And lux is also comes from the Sanskrit word Lakshmi, which is the personified law, the deva, or the goddess of balance and maintenance. And so it really starts to uncover a lot of different hidden messages in the word that are different from the kind of mainstream way that I was brought up to believe of what abundance really means is just having a lot of money in a bank account.

You know, people use this phrase to talk about etymology, and it is good vibes only. Right? The word vibe is interesting vibration. And I think about the. The vibration in this table, the vibration that you just shared, that was a true download. Like, a lot of times in spirituality, they talk about good vibes only, but really, that can be a mask that people wear where good vibes is not the totality of life. We're not here to just only have good vibes. How could you and I, how could we possibly learn and evolve as a soul if something was good vibes only? The wisdom that you just shared came from many vibes that did not feel good.

Yeah.

Many vibrations that did not feel good. So, you know, it begs the question for me. In my own journey around abundance and money, I remember something that. I mean, I call him a mentor, even though I've never met him. His name is Bob Proctor, and he said, you know, if you take from abundance, abundance is still there. There's no. There's no end to the well that abundance comes from. But in order for my body to actually embody that and have that wisdom be a part of me, and when I speak, it actually truthfully vibrates out of me as I share it. The only way I can have that be real is if I do the deepest compartmental work to truly love Josh and to accept him for all the ways that he's shown up in the past, that was not loving. And even last night, right now, we are dealing with a child whose molars are coming in and weaning and all these things. There's nothing in life besides intimate relationship, deep personal work, having children that will bring up all the dark parts of a soul that are asking for light. Anyways, this is not even a question about right or wrong. I'm curious for you. Like, when you go back to working with Paul Tudor Jones, 26, 27, 330 pounds, there has to be some nugget of wisdom that everybody can connect to on this podcast where they're literally running into a brick wall. They're believing the unconscious adage of just work hard and everything will work out.

Yeah.

Which is complete bullshit. It's not about working hard. It's about working intelligently. If you were to go back, like, float in a fucking time machine and go back to young Jason and tell him, hey, this is the lesson that you're trying to learn, but this is actually the. The equation that I have the answer for, what would you tell him? Like, is there something you would guide him upon? Because this is for everyone in the world who may be watching this and listening to this. It's not about working hard. It's not about killing yourself.

Yeah, there's so many different things there. I mean, one, the first thing, like we were talking about earlier, is explain to him what it really means to be successful. Right. This whole idea of, am I successful? Well, in our. In our culture, it's about accomplishment and achievement. But if you study native cultures, it's about, how many people have you nourished today? How many people have you taken care of, how many people have you fed, sheltered, loved? It's a completely different idea of what success is. And so in my work, I often look back at one's earliest childhood memories and dreams, big childhood experiences, as sort of like this pilot wave, this quantum wave that drives their life and it holds their core wounding and their core power. So when I was seven years old, I came home with my first report card in first grade, which is just crazy that you even have that at that age. But, yeah, but, you know, I'm coming home with my first report card and I show it to my mom. I'm expecting some kind of reward, like a gift or a toy or something. And she says, you know, this isn't quite what I expected. This isn't quite there. And I just lost it. I just, like, threw myself in the air. I hit my head on this huge flower pot and cracked open the pot, cracked my head, had to be rushed to the hospital, get stitches and all this. And what that set up in that moment was this kind of belief system that I had to achieve and be the best in everything and get approval from other people in order to feel loved. And so I then had to become the best student. I had to become the best at everything. I had to go to the top university. I had to go out into Wall street and be like this monster, monster, trader. But the paradox was, is that none of that actually filled me up, which is why I was £330 and deeply unhappy and depressed at the same time. And so when you look at the different components of that dream or that event, there is this like letting go, there's the person who's falling back and there's the nurturing mother. And those were all the different lessons that I had to learn. How to love myself, how do I nurture myself, how do I learn to let go and not have to push so hard. And when I do, I ultimately open up minds and open up pots and, you know, flowers emerge. And so I think for me along that line, I realized that that was really part of my journey. Looking back at my whole life, I realized that my struggles on Wall street were to now be able to go back and help people that are doing the same exact thing. It was like an education. It was an education and what not to do. The stresses of anxiety and heart trouble and, you know, blood pressure issues and lack of sleep and stimulants and feeling like crap and eating like crap and going out to happy hours and like, I had to go through all of that and push myself all to that edge and then leave it all and go completely into the esoteric realm and study all these different healing modalities only to realize that like my gift, my reason for being here was to bring the two together. So, you know, offering that kind of perspective to me at that point, to recognize that like, look, you're on this, on this journey now. The real thing that motivated me that I would teach my 26 year old self was, hey, look, you went to a top university. Did you learn how to eat? Did you learn how to move your body? Did you learn what time to go to bed? Did you learn how to have play? Did you learn how to make love, make art, make music in a creative way? Did you learn at any time that who you are is actually a soul inhabiting this body and not even attaching to this physical existence as much as you are? I went to a top university. Nobody taught me anything about actually being a human being. How do I have relationships, how do I love, how do I feel? Gratitude, compassion, I don't know these things. I didn't learn these things in school. I learned how to be a successful business person, but at the expense of everything else. And so I would basically start with myself and say, look, here's a book. How to Eat, move and be Healthy.

Start with this. Here's some basics, which is funny because it's literally on the table right now also with the psychic roots of disease. I know that what you're sharing somebody's already peaked because many of the people that are on that train of productivity and self sacrifice in the name of money. And by the way, money is energy. I actually, I truly love the energy of money. I don't love a piece of paper, but I love the construct of what energy can provide to my family when I have the capacity to give it. Now, if I don't have the capacity to give it because I'm not sleeping, eating, moving and breathing, who the hell could possibly ever become abundant if they did not have those building blocks in place? It's actually impossible. Or it's possible, but then you'll have an early death, which is what happens to so many people in our country and in the world. And I wonder for you. You said something that struck me in one of your pages or on social. I remember what it was.

Yeah.

You said we have a nasty divorce of wealth and well being.

Yeah.

And I freaking love that. This divorcement from nature. Terrible. This divorcement from well being and wealth, how exactly can we lace them together? I have my ideas and thoughts. Let's riff on this. How do we put them together so that they are on the same platform? Wealth and health.

Well, you know, I, I think, I think we're so split off and polarized on, on every issue. Right. Like science and religion have had, there's another one with a terrible divorce.

Yeah.

You know, science will tell you how many times a second a hummingbird can flap its wings, but it will never ask the question, what was the intelligence that created such a beautiful being? And then you have some religions who think that despite like evidence of billion year old world and dinosaur bones, that you know, that the earth is 6,000 years old because it doesn't want to face science, but it believes in this higher intelligence. So we're coming and that's rampant. Like, you know, I mean, I don't need to tell you about the, the polarity that's going around the world and how split off all the different sides of the coin.

Search flat Earthers, y'.

All.

Right, that's an interesting bunch.

So I mean the same thing with, with wealth and well being or wealth and spirituality. But you know, the irony is, is that what in my studies, most of the world religions were all founded with money. Jesus was. I read research at Paul Check's house, at this book that he showed me that there was research that said that in today's value, Jesus was given the equivalent of $4 million worth of gold, frankincense, myrrh, at birth by the magi and kings had visited him and all sorts of reports. Moses lived with the pharaoh in a palace, Arjuna was a prince, very wealthy. Buddha was a prince. Muhammad married a very wealthy businesswoman. And they had a lot of money. And so like all of these great spiritual traditions were all founded on money. But then maybe not so much some of the indigenous ones, but the things that we think of as the great world religions that there are millions of people around the world practicing, they all started with money. And somewhere along the line we had this split that almost like we had to give the institution our money, but it was not right for us to keep it. And then somewhere along the line, we got this idea that we have to sacrifice our whole life and our well being to be successful. But ultimately I found that it's just not sustainable, that if you want to actually be the top in your field as a business person, you have to train for work like you're an athlete. You have to eat right, you have to sleep right, you have to move your body right, you have to have love and play in your life. And you better have a bigger why that gets you out of bed in the morning to go do what you do. And you have to love what you do. Because your flow is following your focus and your focus is following where your heart's at. You have to be fully in something if you want to be truly at the top of your game, you know, if not, you're in fight or flight mode, right? You're in a sympathetic mode. If you're not eating right, just a simple thing. If you're eating processed food or crap food or anything, or you didn't get enough sleep last night, you're now in fight or flight. And then when you're in fight or flight, you cannot think outside the box. You're only in this kind of like very fixed, like yesterday equals today survival mode. You're not accessing your intuition, you're not accessing future prediction. You're not accessing creativity or imagination. You can't think of things differently. All which are absolutely essential tools for being successful in the business world.

It's powerful because, man, we talked about this before we hit that red button. The wound that we carry, not just from father, we shared a similar yet different father wound around money, which I'll unpack here. But that's just one wound. And maybe an unlimited hall of mirrors of wounds that drive people. I said this on the podcast before, I'll say it again. How many buildings in every downtown metropolis were built from the wounds of a son to his father? Because what builds buildings in this construct, that's changing, you know, through the abundance archetype through the ways of real intelligence, embodied intelligence that are coming online now. We're seeing this shift, but unfortunately, for hundreds and hundreds of years, what has built all the buildings has been a lot of wounding, has been jealousy and greed and, you know, crushing the competition. That phrase, I'm sure you saw that every day. Even, you know, yesterday we're recording this podcast. Yesterday was 9 11, and I remember watching interviews of traders in New York saying, wow. I didn't want to say this out loud, but I knew exactly what trades I was making the next day. They didn't even care. This is how disconnected from reality and from empathy that a lot of these traders were. They literally saw the event just as a way where they'd make specific trades.

Yeah.

Like, that broke my heart, and it made me think, I will never be like that. And then, by the way, I think for years later, I was that way in some way, which is probably why it angered me so much. Whatever angers me and someone else is actually a point inside of my heart and my throat that I get to look at. I'm curious for you, like, 26, 27, 330 pounds. Yeah. When you look back on the way that you brought in so much abundance, which in a way, total paradox, helped to fuel you to where you are now, because once people are at the top of a mountain, most people tend not to ask how they got there.

Yeah.

They just look at people on the top of the mountain. But if you were to look back and share with people so that they don't have to duplicate the pain and the torment and really the.

The.

The abuse of self that you went through, what would that be? Is there a behavior that comes up for you in that same regard where I referenced the traitor, having no empathy for those that died on 9 11.

You know, it's a tricky thing, because if I look back at my life and if you look back at your life and you look back at, like, where did you learn the most? Was it the times when everything was, like, extremely happy, or was it the times when things were difficult and you had to work through an obstacle? Like, if I look back at my life, if I look at my life from the perspective of, like, what's the real purpose of being here? Is it to just cruise and have good vibes? Or is it to learn and grow and discover something? To me, the journey of the soul is we're on an epic journey of growth and discovery, and we're here to learn. We're courageous warriors that have decided to come in and incarnate at this particular time in history and learn and grow and change. And it seems to me that actually the most difficult times in our life have the most impact on moving the needle, if that's the actual reason for being here. And so it's hard to say that I would, you know, take any of that away. I wouldn't want that for somebody. But in the same way, like actually going through and finding the resiliency to overcome those challenges made me who I was. So it's hard to imagine my life even without them. All of the difficult things, like if I think about my ex wife and my first divorce, she became my greatest spiritual teacher. Like there's gurus, there's all sorts of things out there. But if you can learn to manage with having kids with an ex and do it from the place of the middle way and from your heart and not letting emotions get involved and always trying to hold the greatest good for everybody at all times through all of the different things like that is, was one of my greatest spiritual learnings. You know, I didn't need to go to a monastery to learn that.

That's like through my life. That's like Sparta and 300 and Leonidas. That's essentially what you're bringing to us right now. What was the, the mastery that she taught you? What was her way of being that taught you so much about being resilient. Yeah.

Wow. It's, it's deep. But you know, forgiveness, you know, coming from my heart, being accepting of her, of differences and different belief systems, you know, always putting the children first, that kind of stuff. You know, real, real big life lessons for sure.

Yeah. Those are some big layers of the onion.

Yeah.

And when you peel the onion, you cry.

Yeah.

Which is what happens to all of us. I think about that in my own life, you know, the relationship struggles that Kerry, Michelle and I have had in raising children. But it's really a double edged sword because that has driven me so much my love for my family to be able to tap into a place in abundance in my heart that I didn't even honestly knew existed.

Yeah.

That's just hands down the truth. Like I had no idea that I could produce and that I could call in the revenue and the things that I'm up to in the world now, they weren't online for me. It's almost like unconscious incompetence. I didn't even know that. I didn't know they were there. And it was only through that galvanization of having two Children, sleepless nights, managing things where it made no sense to manage them. And really what made the most sense was to like eat a turkey sandwich and then go to sleep. But sometimes the things that make sense don't actually make any realistic sense. They're subjectively true, based on my ego and whatever I think I might need. But. But objectively it's totally different. I wonder if you could talk about that. Because we hear about the objective, we hear about the subjective. What does that actually mean to you? Because to dance between those two worlds requires the abund. The abundance, right? The dancing between the objective reality of what's needed, quote, quote, and then the subjective reality of what's needed. Case in point. Maybe we can just like flash to somebody in an economically depressed neighborhood where they may be really excited about what we're talking about, but there's no starting place for them. They haven't really necessarily even been around these types of conversations. Yeah, I wonder how you'd marry those two worlds.

Well, you know, before we get into that, this thing about objective reality, you know, when I'm a. I'm a student of process oriented psychology or process work psychology by Dr. Arnold Mandel, and he lays it out like this, like, imagine like an ice, an ice cream cone on the top. The ice cream is what we would call consensus reality. It's agreed upon stuff, you know. My name's Jason, you're Josh. We're here at a table recording a podcast. It's things that two or more people could agree upon generally as real. But then inside the cone, there's this whole dreamland, there's this whole archetype level. There's the father moving through us. There's all of our people's history. There's my wife and my ex and your family standing behind you, moving through you at this time. There's what you dreamt last night. There's the little synchronicities that are happening and the little medicine spirits and the tobacco and the various things. It's like there's this whole second attention, we mostly are focusing on just the ice cream. And then inside the cone there's this whole invisible level that's actually the archetype or the idea level that's making this consensus reality happen. And then at the very end of the cone, it comes down to a point which it all emerges out from, which is the essence level. It's below this pre verbal energetic, just undulation of energy that's emerging into this dreamland which then emerges into consensus reality. So often, like in my Life, you know, I could be sitting there, let's just say, having an argument with. With my wife about something, right? Or some kind of challenge. Well, on consensus reality level, here we are arguing, but on the dreamland level, maybe there's like the divine masculine and the divine feminine working something out. And then maybe it's like, you know, I see my wife really upset, but I could see, like all of the upset of all women for not being heard moving through her that time. And I could see her grandmother, who came from a Mexican village and was like, abused and had a really difficult situation moving through her at that moment. And her people and where they came from and everything they experience, and then the collective dreaming of everything that's moving on in the collective at that time. And, you know, you just keep going on and on and on. So there's a lot of different ways to look at it. But what I've found is that when we can move from looking at the world like it's just this random Newtonian physical world and recognize that everything in our life has purpose and meaning, there develops this huge richness. You know, Dr. Mindel says that most of us are walking around with what he calls a mild chronic depression. Like, we're not clinically depressed, but we're living in this kind of flatland. And he says that for the majority of people, it's a disconnect from that dreamlike nature of reality, from seeing the dreamlike nature, from not only connecting with your dreams at night, but connecting with your dreams during the day. What are you fantasizing about? What's calling your attention, you know, what's happening in your body? And really realizing that, you know, if we walked into an art museum and we looked at all this, you know, we're here in this beautiful studio of yours, and I look at all this art on the wall and all of this beautiful table and all these things, I wouldn't think that, like, it actually randomly just came here. I'd be like, somebody had to pick this art out and had to make this beautiful table, and some had to curate this whole space. And if we walked into an art gallery, we think the same thing. There's got to be all sorts of departments of intelligence that put this thing together. But we walk out into the world in the most beautiful art gallery there is, our Earth that's traveling at unimaginable speed through space, orbiting with insane precision around the sun and the planets 25,900 year cycles, while then orbiting around, you know, with the moon orbiting around it and all those things orbiting around the center of the galaxy with more precision than we could ever imagine. We could never put satellites in space the size of the earth, sun and moon and had them orbit each other with that precision and create atmosphere where we can live with this much beauty, but we don't recognize the amazing intelligence in everything that's going on. Like, we live in such an intelligent world. And so when, when we can drop out of that consensus reality and into this sort of second attention, like what's below the surface, I found that it not only brings riches into my life, but it made me a better investor because it gave me so much more access to information that I could actually even use in my trading.

Like your intuitive faculty expanded so that you could actually succeed way more than you ever thought you could imagine when you were £330 because of sharpening and building this capacity.

Totally. I mean, all of the right brain perspectives, you know, when you can move into the right brain and you can work on your breath and you can move into a state of coherence and you can get out of sympathetic and into parasympathetic. You now opening up to the intelligence of your heart, you can be sensitive enough to the feelings in your body with incredible amount of wisdom and you could pay attention to your dreams and your intuition and all of these things that are giving you information all the time, which I think is absolutely essential right now, going into this world of AI because, you know, one of the first thing in my course I ask people to do is define your competitive edge. Like what makes this podcast special? What differentiates this from every other of the 3 million plus podcasts out there in the world. You need to know that. You need to know what guests you're going to find. I mean, I know you do this because you have a very successful podcast.

Sure. But also, out of the 3 million people don't realize this, 90% have 10 episodes or less and aren't running anymore.

Right.

So it's actually like way under 500,000 that are.

So if you're going to start a podcast, you need to know like what is going to make me unique.

Yeah.

And so when I worked for Paul Tudor Jones, the first question he would ask anyone wanting to work for the company was tell me how you make money in one sentence at a fifth grade reading level.

What did you say?

Well, for me, you know, it's. I worked with the weather, so this is a very interesting kind of whole segue. But the way I worked, my partner was a meteorologist and so what we did, we had this niche where we would study the weather and its impact on commodity markets to know when there was an opportunity. And that was. We had a very simple edge. That's all we did. We would look throughout the year.

That's awesome.

When the various commodities around the world from like, you know, corn and soybeans or sugar, cocoa, coffee, that kind of stuff, you know, energy, when they were the most sensitive to the weather. Right. Like Chicago and New York weather in January has a big impact on the amount of heat we use in this country. Natural gas or propane, let's say. Whereas, like in September and October, it doesn't move the needle that much because the fluctuations in cold are not that great. In Texas, you know, ERCOT power, if it's 107 degrees or 106 degrees, in Dallas, the power prices don't skyrocket and you don't have blackouts, but at its 108 or 109 or 110, it does. And so, you know, it's recognizing all the different parts of the world where the weather had the largest impact on a particular financial market, focusing in on those times when we had the largest competitive advantage based on how much our ideas of what was going to happen differed from the consensus forecast. And that's what we would do. We would. That was kind of our edge. And so I explained that to him in one simple sentence. But you would be amazed about how many people came in there with long pedigrees and resumes and experiences that cannot answer that question. You know, he recognized that brevity or, you know, simplicity was the ultimate sophistication, as da Vinci said.

So all these investors were in the consensus, they were on the top of the cone and they couldn't actually get into their dream state, their expression, their creativity, to tell in a sentence or two who they are and what gives them their competitive edge.

That's.

That's fucking fascinating because. Yes, the reason why people are with us is because it's me sharing my authentic journey and the lessons that actually move the needle. Yeah, that's the competitive edge.

That's your one sentence.

That's it. They actually move the needle because I've shown through my own application that they do or they don't. And then I'm honest about that too. And I think that's what resonates with people, whether it's any podcast or any media quote outlet. Can I trust this person? And are they actually sharing with me what has worked and what has not? When I say Worked. I just mean, has it expanded my heart, my consciousness, and my abundance? But that's a big one, man. Because I think about Wall Street. It's very myopic. It is about what's the return. And that world can produce great things. I'm not here to. To just totally shit on Wall street, but it also can produce people that become cogs in a wheel of a broken system that makes themselves and others sick. Why'd you leave? Why'd you get out of that? Was it merely health? Or was it your soul trying to expand its own dream?

Well, just before I get to that, just. I want to answer one thing, is that what I realized is that most people actually recognize that they perform better when they have those capabilities, but they don't recognize that it's happening. So, for example, you know, many people would have this experience of trying to work on a problem and then getting in the car and driving home. And then when they're listening to the radio and looking out the window, the answer pops.

Or they're in the shower.

Or they're in the shower. Or they're on vacation. Right.

Yeah.

What is actually happening? And how can I systematically create that on a daily basis to not have to wait for. For these eureka moments to spontaneously occur? You know, so I recognize that the market itself is alive, and I call her Mrs. Market. And, you know, that's just me having a relationship with her. But I started to realize that, what if this was a being, a personality, a person? Maybe it is a collection of people after all. It is a collection of emotions. It's a collection of. Of greed and shared desires.

Essentially fear.

Yeah.

It's shared beliefs. Yes.

Or we're essentially like an egregore. It's like a consciousness or like it's a belief system. It's. But yeah, I started looking at it like it was a. Like a real being. Instead of waking up each day and trying to control her, trying to figure her out, which anyone who's been in a relationship with a. With a partner knows, like, you can't do that.

That might be the best wisdom on the whole pod right there.

Well, you can't.

You do not try to control your woman.

Yeah.

And vice versa.

And so what do you do? You listen. You listen to her. She doesn't want you to tell her what to do. She wants you to listen to her. So what would it be like each day as an investor to do your regular work? Trying to figure it out. You do all of your analytics and things like that? Of course, for you with the podcast, you can do all the things you normally would do about figuring out where.

To put marketing or the search engine optimization. What are people searching for?

But then recognize that you work for the Josh Trent podcast. You are not the podcast. You work for a being that you're in relationship with and imagining yourself in a dance with her and in bed with her. What are her limits and boundaries and desires? What are her emotions? She can take you to the highest of highs and she can rip your heart out. And how to manage that and how to be in a tango with her instead of trying to figure her out all the time. You still do all that left brain work, but you open up to this right brain. So I've essentially created my entire course around that in terms of bringing in all the experiences that I kind of had, but I didn't know what to call them, and creating exercises using my dreams at night, paying attention to my body symptoms and how to interpret them, you know, as investing allies, how to look at the dreamlike level, how to look at synchronicities, how to look at all these different things, how to get into states of meditation where I can systematically detach from my portfolio, to look at it from a different perspective, as if I went on vacation without having to wait 50 weeks to go to Aruba. To have the insight, right? To have it then in the moment, recognizing that there is so much more information than we're typically accessing on a daily basis, and it could actually help us make more money and give us more clarity on how we want to use and balance our life.

It's a really beautiful lens because I've never actually thought about the podcast or the mission in that way as it being the feminine. But essentially it is, I mean, creative expression, dancing, movement, polarity, all these things, all the juicy stuff, it's the things that in my own life, I've had probably the steepest learning curve on. You know, I came from East County, La Mesa. So if you know that area, you know that there's a certain way of thinking and being in the 90s and 2000s that existed there. And none of it had too much to do with emotional intelligence or even the concept of masculine feminine. It was like, this is the way it is. This is the way it always will be, and don't question it. And so it's funny, I can reflect back and go, wow, when I was 18, I thought I might live in La Mesa forever and drive my Ford Mustang and do my thing. And then at some point, my soul became so Starved and choked that I felt like I was going to die. And maybe a part of me did die. Maybe a part of you died in trading because there was a part of you that was eating so much food. I used to be £280 myself.

Oh, wow.

So I can connect with. Yeah, we were in the overweight club, but really the club had a banner at the top of it. And the banner said, the hungry ghost that's never satiated. And the hungry ghost just wants to fill, fill, fill, fill, fill, when really it just wants to be held, nourished and loved. And all these things that I was feeding it were actually just attempts of my ego to not see what the truth was. And the truth was that I had never been introduced to the concepts of self love. Abundance was not a reality for anyone in my family. And actually, when I look at all the tree of life itself that has brought me here, the majority of that tree, I can't connect with anyone in my ancestry that had a true abundance archetype working through them. I can't think of anyone now, maybe they're there and I've yet to meet them. But in every meditation or every medicine ceremony or even just like sitting and reflecting with you right now, I would love for that person to appear. I would love for that person in my lineage, either maternal or paternal, to come through and say, hey, this is actually the way that it's always been. This abundance has always been and always will be. I mean, that, that brings up happiness and joy in me just to say that because when I was 18, in my construct that was not the case. So to bring it back to you, it was a long winded U turn of coming back to you there.

Love it.

Really what this is, is as we go through maturation and as we age in life, it does not always mean that we become wiser. I'm curious how you feel about true wisdom. The wisdom that brought you out of trading, the wisdom that allowed you to let go of the weight, not lose it. You knew exactly where it was. What was that wisdom? And how would you say that wisdom embodies in you now? It's a big question. So we can go layer by layer on that.

Yeah, it's, you know, maybe I'm taking a roundabout way about this, but, you know, one of the things that I would recommend people to do to find that wisdom in themselves is to think about what they loved to do when they were a kid. My first loves were drumming and magic. Like without anybody telling me to do any of that. I Had to drum in my hand. And I was asking my parents to take me to the magic store, which used to exist in a mall somewhere, and I would go buy, you know, silly tricks and things like that. But okay, so on the consensus reality level, on the ice cream part, here's the drummer and here's the magician. But underneath that, like, what is there? There's a dreamlike emotion or feeling of rhythm and of awe and curiosity and wonder that's moving through the magic, right? It's not. There's the magician, but, like, what is the energy of the magician? It's the wonder, it's the aha, it's the surprise, it's the. It's the joy moment, right? And so at some point, I left my dream of being a drum professional drummer and a magician, and I went into this trading kind of world. And I thought I left that behind. But ultimately, when I was a trader, what made me a good trader was tapping into the rhythm of the market. I could just feel the beat in the same way I was feeling the drumbeat. I could just feel the pulse, like, inside of me. And when I would make millions of dollars, just like literally out of thin air, I'm not creating anything. It was just like an idea in my head and I can make millions of dollars. It was like magic to me. I had that same kind of aha moment. And so Fast forward to 2019 when I leave the Wall street world. And to answer your question, I had just gone through my. My divorce. You know, I had my kids now majority custody most of the time. And I couldn't just justify, you know, leaving my kids at home with a nanny after having been awarded to have them more time than not.

That's rare.

Yeah.

Why did that. I know I'm interrupting you. Sorry.

Yeah.

And it's important. That's very rare that a father would get custody.

It was, it was rare. And it was. It was sort of the extreme circumstances that were going on. You know, my ex wife had gone through some severe postpartum depression. Had a lot of different manifestations that, you know, are probably. Honestly, I've shared them before, but I've. I've learned actually now to. I want to respect her. Her privacy a little bit because, you know, I have deep love for her as a person, but she went through some very challenging times that were very scary for all of us. And it ended up with me having, you know, the majority of the custody, always with the goal to get back to a place where we would share the time ultimately, because that's ultimately was my dream for that. I mean, yeah, but that was the way it was in 27, 17, 18 when this happened. And I just couldn't justify anymore being in an office in Greenwich, Connecticut or working all day at home while my kids are, you know, with nanny after nanny after nanny and not with their mother. I'm like, well, this was my path. I have to live up to this and be more present at the same time. I just didn't feel the pull anymore. I absolutely loved trading. Like I was, I just got so high from it. It was like so exciting to me.

Why?

I don't know, just the competitiveness, the freedom of it, the creativity. You know, when you're a trader, you're almost like a star athlete. Like, you don't. Nobody cares what time you show up, nobody cares what time you leave. Nobody cares if you wear something eccentric, if you drive a sports car to work and you leave it out front. Like you just like, if you're, if you're like a top trader, you're like the top stud athlete and people give you complete freedom and you just, you just have this account and you, you literally have to answer to nothing but creating profit. And if you do that, you live a very beautiful life. You get paid really well, you have lots of freedom. It's intense. It's like, but it's got that like sport competitiveness to it. I had a partner who is the meteorologist I mentioned who was a partner with me for 15 years. And we just were like, had this great relationship and it was very, very exciting. But it hit a point where like, my focus wasn't there anymore. I wanted to be meditating or doing tai chi or exercising or banging a drum or being with my kids. And I had so much respect, respect for the level of intensity it takes to be good at that. You know, people come up to me all the time and they say, oh, you know, I got $10,000. What should I invest in? Should I invest in this stock or that stock or this? And I said, look, you realize what you're talking about? Like, would you walk into a hospital and just say, I'm going to perform brain surgery today or step onto a court with Steph Curry and try to beat him on a one one.

Yeah.

You're dealing with people that are fighting for fractions of a millisecond with tens and hundreds of millions of dollars of computer resources and edges and systematic approaches and code and research. And you're just going to take your hard earned money and just throw it into something that you know nothing about. Like, come on, give me a break. You know, I always encourage them to go back to saying, like, investing in yourself is the best thing that you can do, because it's the only thing you ultimately know and can control. And you could have real exponential returns. But back to the story. So I then had this big death where I then said, okay, I'm leaving Wall Street. I had a meeting with Paul Tudor Jones. I said, I'm just. I want to try something new. You know, I've done this now for 20 years, and I've had some success. I've just gone through some personal struggles, and I just want to see if I could reinvent myself. And he looked at me and said, you're the. You're the man in the arena. Kind of that Roosevelt quote about. You know, I don't. I'm gonna butcher the quote.

I know, exactly.

Yeah. But it's about, like, ultimately, like, it's not about winning. It's about the one who goes out and tries and goes through the blood and sweat and tears and, yeah, win or lose, trying is the purpose of life. Standing in the arena, standing in there, being. Being willing to risk it all and try something new and be brave. And so, you know, I had a really big kind of death moment after that, because I was this important person. I was managing over a billion dollars, and I had a lot of people that were working for me that were emailing me, that wanted to take me out to dinner, ask me questions. Clients, risk managers and executives and brokers and all. I mean, you can imagine the whole thing. Multiple screens and phones and, you know, emails and text messages and research and all. And then it was, like, black. And all I'm doing is just driving my kids to school, back and forth like a taxi driver and, like, waiting in the pickup line for them to come out and then, like, going home and sitting, like. And I. You know, I had to go through, like, a really big grief cycle. Like, I had a lot of shock and, like, anger and disbelief and regret and, like, confusion. Did I do the right thing? I just left this job. And, you know, ultimately, I realized that as I started getting into coaching, that the thing that made me a good coach was tapping into the rhythm of my clients. And when I would give them some piece of knowledge that opened up their eyes and changed their life, I had that same feeling of magic. And so what I recognize is that what we're calling these roles is the ice cream, the consensus reality, the drummer, the magician, the trader, the coach. And now the abundance archetype, creator. But really underneath all of that was pulsing through me this gift that I was born with of rhythm and ritual and beat and heart and magic and wonder and curiosity. And that anytime I was on that line, no matter what role you put in front of it, when I was on that line, I was happy, purposeful, and successful. And so ultimately, that's what I realized, is that I never actually left. Anything that was with me from the day I was born that'll be with me to the day I die, is my unique gift, skills and talents. Of those two things that you don't even. It's hard to even put words on them. It really is. It's below on that bottom of the cone level. It's an energy. It's a feeling of, like when you're in the dance, or the feeling of surprise. Right.

Even the question itself, how do I get wealthy? How do I be rich? How do I have this much money? That is a. On the top of the ice cream cone question. That's consensus reality question. A deeper, more soulful question would be, how can I live my life?

Well, yeah.

Which is really, like, that has been my question ever since I was a little boy. You talked about you wanted to be a drummer, and you love the rhythms, and that's how you connect with clients and trading. Ever since I was. As far back as I can remember, the earliest truth that ever came online for me was, what are all these adults hurting themselves for? Why are people so mean to each other? What is all this about? And I can put words on it now for the feeling I was having at the maybe 4 or 5 years old, Jason, and. And the feeling was, I know there's more to life than this. I. I know there's something special. I know there's something. Well, how do I live my life?

Well, that was exactly your podcast.

That's the spark for this podcast. That's the branding for this mission. How do we live our lives? Well, it's not just some PDF that you can come on this podcast and give to us. There's a starting place, you know, to get up the mountain, you take a step. But along the mountain, there is such a twisting and winding journey that, like, it's just. It's beautiful, though. The whole thing's beautiful. Yet if we approach it, and I've done this many times, if we approach it from that analytical mind, that egoic mind that says, well, if I just do this and I tweak this, then I'll get what I want and who the hell cares about everybody else? Cody Sanchez was sitting in that chair, and she said something that was interesting. She said, well, don't get it twisted. It's about first and foremost serving mine and my family. And I thought, okay, that's interesting. And I just let her keep going. And if there was one question I would have asked her, I would have said, well, how can you actually change that belief? So that it's about the all.

Yeah.

So that it's about everybody instead of just the I, the we. How do you navigate this world now?

You know, it's interesting because even I. I kind of resonate with what she's saying. Maybe she. I don't know. I wasn't there. But on some level, we do need to start on the eye level.

Sure.

And then that then can support the we, and then from the we, we can support the all.

Yeah.

You know, and. And, you know, I think the process of individuation is the greatest reason for being alive, becoming who you were truly who you were truly meant to be. You know, there's only one Josh Trent with the fingerprints. You have said, never in the history of the world will there be another one of you. Right. And so you have unique gifts, skills and talents. You came into this world with unique, asking a very specific question. And that question and that feeling quality is what makes you good at your job. And now you're having an impact on tens of thousands or millions of people. Right. Because you're following your unique gift, skills and talents. There's only one person with your fingerprint. There's no two snowflakes ever alike.

And so that phrase has been poo pooed Snowflake.

Yeah.

I want to get clarity before you go forward, because what you're saying is true. And there's always an and. And we are so special, yet we are all the same. I do want to put that out.

Well, I would like to talk about that because I think that there's a funny paradox on that, because what happens is I think people need to understand the. Yes. And multiple phase logic.

That's it.

It's not always either or. So, you know, you have a couple different camps, but some of the camps right now are this. It's all one. This spirituality, it's all oneness. And yes, that is true. And you have some camps that say it's all nothing, it's all emptiness. Buddhism, for example. And yes, that is true. On some level, it's also oneness. We all come from the same place.

Yes.

We're all in Essence the same. In some ways, it is all empty space and emptiness of which everything emerges from. But we're also individuals. And you have to be brave enough to hold all of those perspectives at once, to not throw away your individuality, to really own your individuality, that you are a spark of the divine here with a reason to live your life to the fullest. Because there's no other way the divine can get to know itself than through you in that particular way. At the same time, recognize that you are connected to the whole you all. We all do come from the same place, the same home, and we're in essence the same. And we're also somehow a virtual reality and somewhat empty, just a bunch of ether walking around with consciousness. But yes, yes and yes.

And to all of it. Yeah, I believe that. And you know, to go back to Cody, it's not a knock on Cody, like you said, you know, you weren't here, you didn't know exactly what she felt. What I was feeling was, yeah, it is important, but at some degree there's a transition between what's good for me and mine to what's good for everyone.

That was something profound I learned in my course, because I didn't learn this. You know, I learned so much from making my course about myself and about abundance. It was crazy. I'm like, here I am making a course and I'm like being a student of my own course, trying to put it all together. And one of the ways that I had some of these insights was by doing those kind of let go moments. I was telling you earlier about coming down to Texas for a hunting trip. And I was like, I have these deadlines to figure out this, to get this outline together in like four weeks from now. How can I go on this hunting trip and just check out for a weekend, fly to Texas, and you know, I have so much work to do, but I decided to go. And when I was sitting under a pecan tree taking a microdose of medicine on a break from the hunting, I had this whole map download into, into my mind about how I should proceed with the different outlines of the course in these moments of not doing. And one of the things that came to me was that when you got through the eight steps of my course, and now you've literally are stepping into the abundance archetype, I had this realization that we're actually not abundant until all of us are abundant. In that way, you become the elder like we talked about earlier in starting to elder others and realizing that we are all in this together, we all breathing the same air, drinking the same water, eating the same food, living in the same beautiful planet. And you know, there becomes this consciousness of, okay, now that I have enough resources, I'm then now responsible to help elevate all people.

This is the paradox as well because there is, especially in the training, chiropractic, personal development world, coach, therapist of any kind, being of service, there's a dark shadow where when you shine light on other people and you make that your mission, the dark parts of yourself don't get any light, right? And there's broke mindset and there's actually the opposite. There's a poverty mindset. This is actually what I'm most excited about with your program and everything we're talking about. It's this fundamental shift to know, which is what you just said. We are not abundant, you and I, the I, until all of us are abundant. So can I come from that mindset? Can I be that in the world? Literally in my body, can I be that in the world? And then that's what can change this world. That actually is what can make this complete nirvana for all of us.

Well, because you know, we have to redefine abundance, right? Abundance is knowing who we truly are, when we know who we truly are. When we, when I look at you and say namaste and see you for the soul of Josh that lives in this vehicle, right? That my soul brother or sister or non gender, but this, this like this connection to who you really are, then I realized that in essence who you are is who I am. And so then how can I, how can it not? How can I be abundant without you? Be abundant? Because in essence we're the same, we come from the same place, we're family. And it's that kind of realization of abundance is knowing that who you are is not the material of your life, but it's what you are on the inside. It's the only thing you can take with you. Your investment in your free will today will pay off your karmic account, your karmic portfolio in the future. Everything we do today is a long term investment in ourself, in the planet. And I think it's like this abundance has to have a reversal to recognizing that like yeah, I can be abundant and you can be abundant because in essence we're the same.

What is a karmic portfolio?

Well, you know, I, I, if, if you look at laws of physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, right? And so we know that if we walk down the street and we punch somebody in the face, we might get in trouble or get punched back, right? Or something like that. No doubt, right? There's, there's reactions if we don't pay or more mortgage, our house gets taken away or something like that. But we think that that doesn't occur in our, in our life. And then especially like that, it just ends at the end of her life. But most eastern traditions and most traditions of the world would say that that cause and effect continues and it's actually happened going on for an infinite time in both directions behind us and going forward. Right? And so karma comes from the root word kri and kri has a re in it. Ri and ri gets back to ritual, rhythm, creativity, reading, writing, arithmetic. And it ultimately comes from the ritam, which is the laws of nature. And so essentially, when you want to think about karma, it's a question of is this action going along with life? Does this action support the laws of nature? Is this action going to bring reciprocity and abundance to others? Would I want this done back to me, if everybody on this earth did this ritual, did this act, would the world be a better place? And ultimately, in my understanding, it's not like a punishment if we do the wrong decision and we have this bad karma. It's could you create a system, a better system where you could actually learn about your mistakes? If the purpose of being here is to grow and to learn, if we're essentially in school, if this is not a universe but a university and we're here to learn, how else would we learn than having some, some consequences? And just like when you're two, when your two year old breaks something or throws food at the table, you don't punish them for life eternal hell, right? You say, okay, you know, this is how we do it. And you know, you have to learn because next time, you know, you can't throw food on the floor. But you know, and that's sort of the way it is like for us as children of the divine, it's like, it's not like a punishment. It's that we have to recognize that our reason for being here is to grow, is to evolve. And that there's. The only way that we can do that is by having our actions in life come back to us in a way that reflect, reflect to us.

And in the individuation of Jason, of Josh, in that individuation process, there's an honoring of where we came from or not. It's actually a choice to honor that. The honor the mystery One of the men that I so love and respect in this world, obviously, is Paul. I mean, Paul has touched this show in so many ways. It's a big reason why you're here, for sure. But also a brother and a mentor. Mark Tollefson and I was in a vision quest a couple years ago, and he said, you know, the table that we live at, people tend to never leave a seat for mystery, for the mystery of why we're here and what this is all about. And I think it's really easy for people. It is for me to hear you and go, yeah, karma. Like, okay, well, that's why these really horrific things happen to people that we can't understand. A brother and a mentor of mine right now is struggling with cancer. He spent the past 20 years of his life in service, in true service to people. And I can't for the life of me rationally make sense, Jason, of why he's suffering and what he's going through. This karmic portfolio that you talk about, it's interesting because it can be a way to conceptualize why things happen or the meaning of why things happen. There isn't an answer to it all.

Yeah, there's a little thing about why good. Why bad things happen to good people.

It's mysterious in its origin. So for us to try to define exactly what karma is would be a misnomer.

Well, this is where actually having a good Vedic astrologer can help out, because there are different types of karma. There's karma that has been done in the past that is just landing now. There can be karma that, you know, we're just initiating with a new action right now. There's all. There's. There's various different types of karma. That's quite complex when you really think about it. I mean, when you really think about karma, it's what they say in Sanskrit is achintya. It's beyond. It's not conceivable by the mind.

Yes.

It's not something that we can even understand. It's extremely complex.

Thank you.

I mean, think about all of the different things that had to happen in our lives for us to be here today. So many past life iterations. All the different decisions we've made in our life, all of the people that we met getting into Paul Check's life, the various past that we've had. I mean, it's like you'd have to have the. You have to have the mind of God to calculate all of the different, you know, possibilities that put us in the same room. It's inconceivable.

Yes.

And actually it's an interesting concept because much of this spiritual experience that we're talking about is actually a chintia. It is inconceivable. It's beyond our thinking mind. And that's why you have to have the direct experience on a vision quest, on a psychedelic journey, in a meditation, in a breath, work in whatever, or you know, sitting with your two year old.

Yeah.

To really actually get to those places because much of life is actually beyond that mind and you know, you have to be able to, willing to understand and digest paradoxes and things that are inconceivable to our mind, to actually learn and grow on this level.

There's value in this understanding that we don't have it all figured out. There's so much fucking value in that. And I've heard, and from your previous world, which I'm sure you still dabble in trading now. Yeah, time to time, not too much.

I'm mostly working with people. It's more, it's more interesting to me to work with traders.

You like the beat of that drum? You like the rhythm of working with people more than right now?

Right now? I mean, yeah, at times, at times I get intrigued by it and you know, certainly if I saw an opportunity, I might think about it. But I'm more interested in, in working with people that are in a similar position that I, I was in where they, yeah, they're trading or they're investing and they're saying, you know, hey, I'm doing pretty well. But I, I'm looking for that bigger. Why in my life. I don't have the juice in my life.

Yeah. The reason I ask you is because, you know, there's so many people in the financial intelligence world. Use whatever words you want to use on it. You know the teachings about wealth and money. And there's this phrase that's been said and I'm curious how you feel about this because I think we could really unravel a lot here, Jason. And the phrase is, well, money is a byproduct of the service you provide. And I think that's true and which is the theme of our conversation today. Also, you can sit at a keyboard trading with your partner who's a meteorologist, you can push a key on a keyboard and make $2 million in a fraction of a second and you didn't serve anyone at all. So I think there's a paradox in that statement itself. Is money, how do you feel about this? Is money always an equation where you will be yielded. The energy that you create for others, the good that you create for others will be afforded back to you. Almost like the boomerang of love that Paul talks about. Right? Love is a boomerang. You throw it with the pure heart and attention, and it comes back to you. I don't think the same thing applies when we look at the construct of money. What do you feel about this?

Wow. Well, it's a very interesting question. You know, there's a few different flavors to it. One thing that came up for me is recognizing that when you're in service to what you love to do, when your work is a labor of love, you know, then I think the money does flow. And it's a different kind of spin on what you said. But, you know, what I found is if you go to a restaurant and you have a waiter serving you, and they really love their job and they do it well, and they really care about it and they know the menu, then you want to give them more tip. Naturally and. Right. And so, like, I do think in that way that, like their level of service. But it's really about really finding your passion in life. You know, I think that the most important thing to do is to be in service or to surrender to your own passions, to become a master at what you love to do. Not because mommy and daddy want you to do something or because, you know, in our family, you have to be a doctor or a lawyer or you'll never be successful as a magician or a drummer. It's like ultimately doing what you love to do and being of service to your own heart and your deepest passions and your childhood ambitions. I do think the money flows when you're in service to that.

So that's one way it can flow.

That's one way.

But yet there's other ways where it can flow. Where money equals service does not always the formula.

Yeah, there's a lot of different things, too. I mean, you know, one of the things that it brings up for me with service is. Is in service to what? And to me, it does seem that the more that I am tapping into being in service of a higher good in that, like, there's some other intelligence that's moving through me that I'm working for. I could begin to trust that these pieces are falling into place at the right time. But I know what your question is about being. Being at that, you know, being the trader type and just pushing buttons. Sure. And being conditioned.

Or even the Fed. Even the Fed, Jason. Some, you know, somebody just sits and pushes a keypad and prints out billions of dollars. Is that creating value for anyone?

Yeah, I don't think so. Because in my model of what is really wealth, in my course, I get into this in pretty good detail. But, you know, wealth comes from, etymologically, from well being. And well being comes from the wheel. A wheel. And wheel comes from chakras, wheels of energy. So if we break this down, right, wealth is more about the wheel. It's more about not how much money you have or how much money you print or how much you create in a fictional account. It's how are you circulating that money? It's not how much wealth you have. It's not how much dollars or digits you have in a Swiss bank account. It's what are you creating in the world with it? In fact, I think one of the biggest sicknesses we have is we look up people's net worth. Instead, we should be looking at what's their net impact, what are they doing with the money? Not do they have $50 billion in an account.

I saw that the other day. I typed in my name and it said, Josh Trent, age Josh Trent, wife Josh Trent, net worth. I'm like, don't be looking too deep, y'.

All. It should be net impact is what we should be paying.

Absolutely, absolutely. There's a country, Bhutan, they have the. One of my earliest podcasts, like, eight years ago, a guest. They have the Gross National Happiness instead of another financial piece that they measure. I wonder how we could do that and still be wealthy. Because in your course, you talk about wealth being a certain description. So the wheel of wealth, how can we do that on a fundamental level where the wheel of wealth is also making everyone truly happy?

Yeah.

Or is happiness just a fleeting thing?

Well, I. I think. I think it. Yeah, happiness is, but because, you know, there's no happiness without sadness. And so we have to accept that. That, you know, there's no Mother Teresa without a Hitler. And, you know, this is just the way that the world works, is that there's no day without night. You know, there's no sleepless nights without eight hours of sleep, nights. You know, I mean, these things go together and they give life meaning. And. And, you know, really learning how to navigate those polarities is. Is the key.

The wheel of wealth that you teach about in the course. And by the way, right now, like, this is something to click on in this moment while we're talking about it. It's joshtrend.com abundance and thank you, by the way, for sharing the Abundance. With us giving people 500 bucks off, all they have to do is enter the code. Josh, that feels so good to be able to give people, like, a significant discount on a program where if they actually just use the fundamentals of the program and they trust you and they move forward with whatever process they're going to move forward with. But the key is that they move forward. This can and actually will transform the quality of their life, the abundance in their life. I mean, I've gone through the program, y'. All. This thing looks legit. There's over 150 videos in there now. I know you're going to be playing more as you go along. Like, if there was one thing that y' all could do to have abundance and to actually first and most importantly be that abundance, it would be to receive it from somebody that's actually walked the path themselves.

Yeah.

But to go back. You're welcome, man. So that's on the screen right now. And the wheel. The wheel is huge because the etymology you broke down was beautiful. And like, really, it's about wheel, which is the chakras in our system. And this is the energy that we're wanting to.

So real wealth is being embodied.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. The wheel, which I love.

It's the wheel. It's having. It's having being in our chakras and being fully secure in all of our energy centers and recognizing ourselves as first a level beyond even the physical body on this energetic level or the soul level. And then once we're fully embodied, then we can recognize that we take this wheel out into the world, and now we're giving and receiving and we're in reciprocity with Mother Earth. We're not taking too much, we're not taking too little. We're. We're creating products and circulating wealth with your podcast and products that actually make the world a better place instead of, you know, a more toxic environment.

Like, yes, I. I have a wheel in myself that, that I, you know, diffuse energy into and from. And then whatever I receive from that, that it actually makes my wheel. I was visualizing this as you were speaking. It makes my wheel expand in its size.

Yeah.

When I give from my wheel to someone else so that they can get off of their really, let's be honest, rat race wheel that they've been running in for a long time, even people that call themselves successful. That wheel is a really beautiful analogy. And I wonder, when this concept came on for you, this wheel, was it through the etymology studies? Yeah, I was starting to study, like, because that's fascinating.

When I started going through this course, I had to ask myself, what is abundance? What is an archetype? What is. What is money? What is wealth? And I had to really, like, think about these things. I never had thought about that. You know, we take these words for granted all the time. And so I had to really do a deep dive and define them for me and really go into, like, what do I. What am I actually bringing out here?

Yes.

What does this mean to be an abundant archetype? You know, what does it mean to be truly wealthy? Because I was wealthy at 26 and I didn't feel wealthy. You know, I felt pretty sad and depressed at the same time. So I know it's not what we think it is. It wasn't what I thought it was. And I did not feel abundant. Just having a lot of money. And then again, I meet a lot of people who are in the coaching therapist, practitioner world who have their chakras turned on, but they don't have any money and they're not having a big impact with their work. And so to me, it's like all roads for me, my own path. Like, when I left trading, I was like, I don't want to be that guy anymore. He's nuts. He's psycho. All he cares about is fricking money. And all he does is want to look at the markets and look at the screens and be on the phone. I'm like, I don't even want to think about him. And, you know, what happens is that we have what's called our primary personality. So when I was a trader, my identity was like, Mr. Trader, right? I was like, so in that, like. My name is Jason. I'm a Wall street trader. I work for Paul Tudor Jones. I manage this account. I trade weather. I have this many kids, you know, da, da, da, da. But then there's this whole secondary nature to us that it's unknown and it's standing over the top of a, like, of a. Of a mountain peak. And on that mountain peak is that edge. And every time we kind of get close to that other side of the mountain, we get nervous, we get fear, we pull back, we get anxiety, sweaty palms, we. Our energy drops, we get sick, we turn away. All these different sort of symptoms happen to us. That over what's over, that edge is what we're dreaming about at night. It's literally calling us in from our unconscious of things that we're not aware of. We're dreaming up at night. The artist, the dancer, the Magician, the lover, the things that we're not really connected with the feminine parts of herself as a very, you know, masculine oriented trader type. And then when I left trading, I went fully into the secondary. I said, I don't even want to think about trading. And interestingly, that secondary part of myself as the therapist, as the coach, as the healer, as the drummer, as the shaman of all these different things, things that became primary. And then I, then I buried all the traitor part and that became deeply secondary to me. I'm like, I don't even want to know that part of myself. And then ultimately I realized like now that's the part that I'm dreaming up at night, that's showing up in my body symptoms and the synchronicities and my clients are naturally are asking me for. So what I realized is that actually to be of biggest service to the world, I had to include all of my gifts and talents. That my reason for being there on Wall street was to have these types of experiences and make the kind of money I made to then be able to explore all these other secondary things to then ultimately bring them together. And ultimately when I'm bringing together all parts of myself, the wealth and the well being, I can be the most impactful and the most successful. And that's essentially what I encourage people to do.

There's the wheel. If there's any part of anyone, themselves in the wheel that is not loved, that I believe is what has hindered my and what will hinder all of our progress in the world and progress. What I mean by that is greater capacity to love, greater wealth, greater well being. There's a part of the wheel, it's not loved. Maybe it's fractured, maybe it's ignored or shamed, it's pushed aside. It's really about loving all the parts of the wheel. It's almost like a visualizing a kaleidoscope right now. Like the old school window glass in churches. We saw a wheel with all the colors inside of it. Loving all of the colors. You know, I was talking to you about something that's been really bothering me and we've done quite a few episodes on this. And it's the part of myself that I am actually completely okay with, like the. The part of myself that wants to be able to just accept and love the people that are going through gender dysphoria and the people that are struggling with, you know, are they a boy, are they a girl? And I see the Watiko that's being bombarded on young girls and young Boys minds. And it makes me so angry. And there was a time where I was putting out a lot of content that I was trying to fight the demon itself. And of course, I was fighting that part of myself as well. It's easy for me to sit here on a podcast and conceptualize this for you, but for me to actually do the deep work on that, what really came up for me was I was in an ayahuasca ceremony. And in that ayahuasca ceremony, it shattered my mind in such a crazy way that I saw I actually physically and I somatically felt the presence of this gender dysphoria come in and try to attack me. And it was part of what Paul helped me heal. I mean, I was going through OCD for 18 months personally with this entity. I don't know, Jezebel or whoever it is. It's some kind of dark entity in the world that only will find its way into people that have space for it to live. And when I got through this process with Paul, and when I finally feel like I was at a place where I could, like, exhale and have to be haunted by the ocd, I knew why I went to the Ayahuasca ceremony. I knew why I pushed myself so hard that drinking the fifth cup of medicine wasn't the smartest idea. But it happened for my good. It happened. And in a way where, you know, now I can look back on it and be like, wow, thank you so much for the way that this transpired. Because I received such a fundamental slap in the face and such a beat down for so long that I don't want other people to suffer like that. I actually have never put words to this on a podcast ever. I don't want people to suffer that might find that they're seeking solace in medicine, but they may be like lambs led to slaughter in an unsafe space where they're then taken apart by this dark energy. So it's a juxtaposition. That part of the wheel that I mentioned that you articulated, and that's what's in your program with abundance. I'm still in the process of accepting and loving all the parts of me that were shamed around. A prostitute in Thailand, pornography, and all that came up in the ceremony. So my question to you is, where do you see this playing out in our society, and how does this directly impact the abundance of our species? This acceptance of this gender dysphoria, but also the protection of our children? There's a. And I don't even want to Put it in a dichotomy. Maybe you can offer a third perspective. That's what I've been struggling with. And I think once that gets under wraps, once I have a full acceptance that, you know what, like, I took a path, and that path was actually for my greatest good, and I'm grateful that that happened. But for whatever reason, not that we're in a therapy session right now, or maybe we are. Maybe somebody's feeling this in their heart, too. The judgment, the anger, and just the fact that this whole gender dysphoria thing exists. It's because I felt it in the ceremony myself, and it took me two years to actually be at peace with the entity itself. I wonder how you feel about this. You know, the. The gender dysphoria in our world, how it relates to abundance and your own soul lens on what the meaning of this whole thing actually is. This circus.

Wow, that's a deep one.

Well, we're on. We're on a deep podcast. Let's go. Let's. Let's do it.

You know, I think we've been looking at things through the various levels of consensus reality, and I think in Dreamland, in essence, and I think on the consensus reality level, there are a lot of different things that are kind of worth fighting for.

Right.

I mean, I think, like, simple things even, like plastics. Plastic water bottles with estrogen levels, you know, altering simple things like that. Altering boys levels of estrogen just from having overexposure to plastics.

Yeah.

And there's a million different things like that from, you know, the kinds of toxic foods and chemicals and poisons, what we're doing to the ocean, and all of these things that, like, we really need to work on that are, like, just very basic stuff that I think are driving a lot of these responses. Yeah, right. I mean, and. And who could blame anybody when. When they're being pumped up with such crap in their bodies and there's such crap in the environment, all these vaccinations and medical drugs and toxic foods and all of these things. It would confuse the hell out of a body. Yeah, right. So, I mean, I think that's. That's the first place, and there's obviously a whole lot of different things to discuss about where the education system's going with all this. But I would like to take, like, a slightly different approach. I think some of the things that are missing are some of the things that other cultures could offer us. Like, for example, take the Native American culture I've studied a lot with a woman named White Eagle. Medicine woman who's a Native American teacher out in Alaska. I've been going there for multiple years. And one of the kinds of practices that I got certified in was called balancing of the shields. And in balancing of the shields, they recognize that each one of us has four orbs or shields or energy centers around our navel. In the north, south, east, east, west. On our north, south axis, we have the biological gender that we're born with. In the north, we have for us an adult male, a wise elder, and in the south, we have our young boy. And then on the east, west axis, we have our opposite gender shield. So in the west, we have our adult wise woman, and in the east, we have our young girl. And then if any one of those shields are stuck, which many of us have, because we. When we're a boy, we get told, don't cry or be a man, or don't get access with this, or we have an abusive parent, or we have a coach or somebody that literally comes in and, like, fix us in a shield, or we get stuck in one. We get stuck in a child shield, for example, and we can't access the other wise parts of ourselves. What they're really showing is that all of us inside have a male and a female and a. And a young boy and a young girl inside of us. And we could only become whole, and we could only have that whole wheel be filled in when we access all parts of ourselves. And interestingly, the east direction for a man, where the young girl is, is the home of the warrior. So Native American tradition, the warrior is someone who's connected to the spontaneity, the curiosity and the vulnerability of a young girl while also being a masculine warrior. Instead of just being this, like, machismo guy, it's somebody who is true to who they are, has courage or comes from their core, doesn't live at the effect of anyone in any place at any time, and has spontaneity and joy and creativity like a young girl would. And so what I'm kind of intimating is that really all of us, I think, have to recognize that on some level, we all have all these parts inside of us. And that, you know, it's really to embrace all of it. Now, the second component of it, I think, is that we have in our culture this. This deep fixation on the physical body. And if you just think about the fact that, like, what is your physical body? You know, when you woke up this morning, well, you didn't get much sleep. But when you woke up 50 billion cells died from the day before. And in a couple years, they keep shortening the time that the body turns over. It used to be seven years now, I've heard, like four. But a few years from now, no part of your body today will actually be your body. Every single cell, every part of your skin, hair, everything will be different. But since you were born till the day you die, there's always been a Josh. And so we're identifying with the car or the vehicle that we're driving instead of the driver. We're so worried about the gender or the makeup of the outside of the car, the paint job, fixing dents, Right. But we're not really understanding who is in the car. And I think that if we had that, if we taught that in schools, if we taught that in our family, that who we are are an indivisible, immortal individual that is beyond this body, that might help a lot with those problems. And I think the last missing vitamin of all this is having a one lifetime worldview. If you have a multiple lifetime worldview, you sort of relax on this, need to have this different experience right now because you realize that you've played this game a million times. You've been boys, you've been girls, you've been wise women, you've been wise men, you've been black, white, yellow, red, everything under the sun. You've been gay, you've been straight, you've been trans, you've been every religion there is. And that this is just another experience of having this. Now, I do think, like, if you read some of these older texts, like even in the Mahabharata, the larger text that holds the Bhagavad Gita, all of the different characters in the stories are all these different archetypes of potential. It's like all these different types of personalities and psychologies, and they do have people that are transgender. But I think that the rate of increase needs to be looked at deeply and understood why that's happening.

It's really beautiful the way that you brought the Native American teaching and the compass and the masculine feminine of that. And also mentioning the Bhagavad Gita, I really, I love that so much because it takes the pressure out of the situation for me to try to solve. I think it really started to come online for me when my son came into the world, and especially now my daughter. It's like love protects, and sometimes protection looks like war. Not all the time, sometimes. And so it brings up that warrior in me that's like, well, if you think for one Second, you're going to implant a chip inside of my. Physically or emotionally or mentally or psychically inside of my children, you know, over my dead body.

Yeah.

And I know every parent feels like.

That, so not all of them, to be honest.

Well, but yeah, every. Every parent that's connected to this conversation. Yeah, for sure.

Everyone listening, hopefully. Yeah.

And so, you know, to round that out, the wisdom that you shared is this. Yes. And yes, what you shared is very important because in, you know, Native American culture and many that you reference, there's always been different archetypes of how people express their gender, transgender, and whatnot. But I believe what's going on now is we are in an experiment of a few different arms, social media, collective consciousness, pain body of how women were treated, and also the demasculinization of men and the hyper masculinization of women. There's a lot of different tides that are pushing right now, and I think that's the pressure that I. I can actually feel it right now. And I think most of us that are parents can feel that pressure. The way to guide is actually to be in a boat and rise above all of it, not to be stuck in it and be angry about it and try to protect. It's like, okay, well, this is my values and this is what I believe. I shared with you what happened for me in that ayahuasca ceremony, which is still working its way through. I actually was. I met with the spirit itself. It's the same spirit that we see where little Nas is twerking on the Devil or where these rappers are talking about killing babies and how great that is. And there's just the demonic energy that I see and I know all of us see that's in the media. I came face to face with that fucking spirit, Jason, and it was petrifying. I mean, it was like, I know you've done a lot of work and I know you've actually guided other people in ceremonies. Yes.

Yeah.

And so in ceremony, yes, I meet the part of myself, but I also do meet the collective parts of the fractures and the evil in the world. And so for me to sit here and say, well, I'm just gonna heal myself and that's all that needs to be done. Yes. And yes, I do get to heal the parts of myself that are angry or bitter or resentful of that spirit. And collectively, we must look at that spirit as real, because it is. And to deny that evil exists is what Paul wrote to me when we did the Series of God podcast. Evil is Actually live backwards. So to deny evil is here is to deny life itself. This is why I think it's really important to flush this out. I didn't actually know we were going to go here today, which I love. This is why I love podcasting. I think it's important to flesh this out, because anywhere on that wheel, I am blocked myself or any part of that wheel that we are blocked in ourselves, it'll limit the capacity for our own abundance, for our own wealth or well being. How do you feel about that?

Well, you. You brought up so many amazing things there. I mean, one of the things that I just think is interesting for people is, is. Is to first start with the place of recognizing it in yourself. Like, for example, let's just say, you know, I. I hate Trump or Putin or somebody like that. I don't. But, like, let's just say you did, you know, and you first start off in some ways of, how am I Trump? Like, how do I not care about other people's feelings, for example, or marginalized people, or how am I egotistical or narcissistic or whatever your criticism might be of him? Right. And then I challenge you to take the flip side of that, which would be, where do I need to be a little bit more like Trump? Where do I need to speak my mind and not care about what people think about me? Where do I need to stand up for myself? Where do I need to be a little bit more direct? Maybe not in the way. Maybe in the energetic way of, like, what is the energy of it? It's a very direct and cutting and sharp. Like, where do I need that in my life? In my work, for example? And so anytime that something in the world challenges you deeply, it's a really good place to start with, where am I a little bit like that, you know, if I think about Putin, where do I.

You know, just dominate and control.

Dominate and control.

Okay.

All happens all the time, you know? And then, like, where am I dominating? Control? We're all dominated and controlled by social media and the media. And then, like, where do I need to just, like, go out in the world and take a little bit more of what I want for myself, you know, and not hold back and just go for life in a more positive manifestation? It's not always the way that the negative person or the negative group would do it, but on the energetic level underneath it, there's some kind of thing in there that we can harness and use for our own potential as well, and also find some kind of sympathetic resonance that in some ways we too are like that and that's why it is triggering us now. I think the other part about it is that, like you said, is that, like, it doesn't mean we don't show up in the world. You know, it's kind of, I think, a silly idea to think that we will eradicate evil because evil is necessary to know the light. This is a time, spirit. There will never be a time when there's no evil and there's no. Because there can't be any good without it. In fact, on a very spiritual level, you can say that some of these evil. Evil ideas are in some ways letting us know the light more because we can find out more depth about. Of ourselves so they can challenge us to grow. But at the same, the same point, I do think at this particular time in history, we do not have a good balance. Okay. We're not in that middle way. Like, yes, we can't eradicate evil, but right now we. I think we are being inundated with too much. And we need to stand up for. For our. What we believe in, and we need to stand up for life itself and for nature and for our children and for all the things that are important to us and our own autonomy and our health and all these things and claw back a little bit at. At. At that. That side of the polarity. Because I think it's a little bit out of balance.

It's one hell of a theater, isn't it?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. You know, you posted something yesterday and it freaking sparked my mind, actually. It sparked my heart. And it was, I am not what you think I am. You are what you think I am.

Yeah.

And when I saw that, I was like, okay, that seems like Jason, because every, every baked into every single thing we've discussed today about abundance and the primary motivation for most people to have abundance is to have financial wealth. Would you say that's true? I know I'm generalizing, but would you say that's mostly true?

I think in this country, in the west, yeah, it's pretty. Pretty much that. We think that being successful is having.

A lot of money, having money. Right. But you and I know that if I'm mentally well, physically well, spiritually well, if I'm financially well, if I'm physically well, all these things, then I'm. Well, then I'm abundant. But yet the part that I love about your work, that no one else seems to be talking about when it comes to the tactical, practical, how do I invest, how do I Make money? How do I have wealth? Yes. Those are all things that are super important. And if I am what I think you are, how does that play out into me being abundant in myself? How do I see the abundance in you? How do we see the abundance in each other?

Right.

So that. That becomes the fabric of who we actually are.

I think a lot of this, where I start off, is working with people's belief systems. I mean, that's really like the nuts and bolts of it. Right. I mean, the experiences we had between 0 and 10 are essentially downloaded into us. We're like a sponge, like a tape.

Recorder, like the flower pot. Like, you broke your.

Yeah. Believing everything. Everything that our parents said. And we begin to believe that that's what love and life means, and that's what keeps us safe, and that's how we should be living. And I think that, like, we have these blueprints, we have these love blueprints, we have these money blueprints, we have these wealth blueprints, abundance blueprints, engagement blueprints, marriage blueprints, parenting blueprints. And ultimately, we have to be willing to look at all of our different belief systems and what we believe in, challenging it, and look at it in our life. And if we see something in our life and we recognize that we don't want that.

Ask.

Okay. If we didn't want this in our life, it must be coming from. From some kind of unconscious or some shadow belief that's manifesting that this. That I must have a belief that that's what life means, that I don't even know about, and then begin to work there. So I think all of it starts with this level of. Of. Of belief system.

What has been. Obviously, you've gone the gamut, especially, I believe you're Paul's longest client he's ever had. 10 years or 11 years.

Yeah, more than that. But, yeah.

15 years.

14 or something.

Okay. So. So working with a master, and I believe he truly is a master in the process of greater mastery.

Yeah.

What have been some of the big rocks that have really moved the needle for you towards abundance.

Wow. I mean, so many interesting.

I'm sure there's a laundry list. Yeah. Whatever naturally comes.

One of the. One of the first things I'll say is that he. Paul, taught me how to play. I mean, it's simple as that.

He's a good player.

He plays.

Yeah.

You know, like, I went to.

He's kind of always around in a good way.

Yeah. I mean, I went to see him in 2009. Or eight or something like that for the first time. And I had just lost this 170 pounds. And I thought that being healthy was like, you know, lean turkey meat and spinach. No fun, no play. You got to work yourself into the ground in the gym and you got to just like go to bed and like eat by yourself at. For 30 minute meditation with a candle and all. I'm serious.

I was like, sometimes. Sometimes.

I mean, it's beautiful. It's hard with kids. I miss it.

No, yeah, no doubt.

Then it's a different kind of meditation.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. My point was that I thought that being healthy was like very rigid and very dry and very hard, you know, and then I met Paul and it was like we were painting and we were playing drums and we were rattling and we were smoking tobacco together and having fun. And then we. It would just be like, I mean, it's like even the little things that he didn't mean to do, like we'd be watching a movie at night and I'm like, Paul watches movies? Like, you know, he's always like normal, you know, and like he would make popcorn and we'd put like grass fed butter on the popcorn. He liked it a little bit like extra burnt. And it's like, it seems like a silly thing, but just like the normal humanness and the laid backness of the health journey that it can be fun to move your body and express yourself. It could be fun to eat. Right. Right. It could be fun to get to sleep on time and to meditate. It could be fun to play and to do art and to stack rocks. And that really opened the door for me that, like, living this life is actually more fun. Like, I thought I was like giving something up by, you know, leaving the drinking and the nightclubs. I mean, man, I was going to every single nightclub in the world, you know, in New York City. Like the, the top nightclubs, you know, red carpet, they were putting. I remember one time I was at 1Oak, one of those top clubs in New York. Especially at the time, okay? I had spent so much freaking money there, and I had spent so much time there just like wasting my life on champagne and, and friends that I didn't even care about. And people that were just hanging on, they literally put my name on the table, like on a plaque. And I remember looking at that and having like an outer body body experience and being like, something's wrong. This needs to be the last time you ever do this. Like, you're completely missing out on the point. But I Lived that life to the fullest. And then I pulled back and I thought, like, that life had to be completely, like, no fun. And I realized that, like, you could actually have so much fun, fun and joy and beauty in the health journey. And I would say that, like, honestly, like, there's a million different lessons from the four doctors to the six foundational principles to just over a hundred, probably 50 medicine journeys with Paul and various things. But ultimately, it's like. It's like that joy, that reverence for life is probably the number one thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That brings up a lot for me. The reverence. The reverence is different than any other thing. I remember I heard Zach Bush say that, you know, when someone's suffering, don't give them empathy, give them reverence.

Yeah.

Because reverence holds. You know, from an etymology guy, like, what's the etymology of reverence?

Right.

To be reverent. It holds a different gravity. There's more of a gravitas when I have reverence for life rather than, oh, I have joy for life, I have happiness for life. And these are important things. Of course. Of course. We get to have all these things. I almost look at our conversation as a potpourri of spiritual development and growth. This has been exceptional.

It's been fun, man.

I love podcasting because I never know where we're going to go. We always go somewhere ultimately real. Otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. And also, I've had fun with you, and I think about the way that you shared how Paul taught you and, you know, how you've taught all of us across the world today. What is something you're still teaching you? What's something that you're still desiring to learn, that you're desiring to embody? Is there a piece of wisdom out there in the world of abundance that you yourself creating the Abundance archetype course, which is amazing, by the way. I mean, I was looking at it this morning, like, dude, you've done a really good job on this program. I see a lot of programs and the branding, the content, the videos, the information, the way it's disseminated. I had to go through it a few times just to really hold it all. It's quite a lot.

It is, but it's.

But it's beautiful because many of the things we've talked about today, there's actually the ultimate answers that are in the program. And so, anyways, what is that wisdom that you're still learning?

For you, to be honest, I think you'll resonate with this My biggest challenge that I work with as a man, a father is work, life, balance. It's like, how do I find the right balance between time for myself, time for my wife, time for my kids, and time for my students? It's like, that's the dance of like, how do I manage all of that on an every single day basis? And you know, how much time do I need to be in the gym, how much time do I meditate, what time do I go to bed on time? How much time do I need to be? How much presence do I need to have with my children? What's the right balance of taking on clients and running the course and creating new material? And you know, ultimately to me, like, that's a never ending journey to me. You know, I look at, I look at these things in life, like they're, it's. I want to be an infinite player. You know, I had a cool story where I was playing dominoes with my daughter, and we were playing dominoes and she was about to win and put the winning piece down, and I saw her like, take the piece and like put it out. And I'm like, yeah, you're gonna win. You're gonna win. Then I see her pull it back and I, and, and, and move it over and then take the wrong piece and put it out.

Oh.

And I was thinking to myself, what are you doing? You gotta win the game. You gotta, it's all about winning. And then I recognize I had this like huge like, chills moment where I was like, oh my God. She just taught me that it's not about winning, it's about continuing to play. It's about being an infinite player, that if she wins right there, she goes to bed, the game's over, the fun is over. And it's not about winning or losing. It's about learning in fact, like, life fulfillment. From MIHALY CSIKSZMIHALYI the flow research, it shows that we actually get more fulfillment in life playing somebody who's better than us, a little bit better than us, and challenges us even if we lose, than if we beat up on somebody that was easy. That like, we don't actually get fulfillment from winning. We get it from growing and going over our edges and extending ourself. And so like, ultimately it's about, it's looking at life like this. It's, it's, you know, there's no place to go. It's a horizon point. Once you get there, it moves off into the distance and learning how to be an infinite player, learning how to be an infinite investor. Paul Tudor Jones told me once, he said, if you're just here in 20 years, you'll be rich. And the point was, is that, like, don't make one. Trade your last. Make it a marathon, not a sprint. Right. Always look at the long game. Always look at the big picture. Always try to evolve and adapt and grow yourself and recognize that the point is not to win on this one moment. It's like how to be in this longevity and how to continuously play the game. And ultimately we realize is that, like, we are ultimately infinite players of this because we are infinite. And that can put us into perspective where we can really learn to slow down and enjoy things a little bit more. Recognize that despite how much we know in the world, we look at the world like it's 99% known and 1% known, and more likely, it's 99% unknown and 1% known. You know, we can only see so much light. We can only hear so much sound.

Sure.

And all these different things, and we could just wake up to this, like, magic and this mystery that we're in and really start to enjoy it and explore it and, And. And slow down. So for me, it's like, really trying to balance all those things and recognize that live life like I have as much time to really appreciate it, but also take advantage of everything I have and take advantage of this. This moment to make a big impact. And so I struggle with that. I struggle with that. Every single day is like, how much to give to all of those different buckets.

I think that's just the dad journey. And maybe the moms even have it more rough because, you know, they're nursing children. I look at Kerry Michelle, she's nursing two babies at once. I'm like, how are you doing that? And figuring out how to fill your own cup? And. And I'm even just on a daily basis in awe of her. Shout out to every woman. Yeah. Who has ever birthed a child. What an incredible, mysterious, wonderful, beautiful thing that is definitely its own learning curve in its own right. So I'm sure that every human being can relate to many of the things we've shared today in so many ways. You know, specifically parents. Like, we're both fathers, and, you know, to be a parent is actually to bring the abundance conversation right here. And if it's not right here, it gets to. To be right here right now.

Yeah.

And so we covered so much ground, Jason, on, you know, the spiritual roots of the tree that. That touch hell and the branches of abundance that are this like flowy, beautiful, godlike energy and then the trunk in the middle. You and I figuring out how we can actually stay connected to hell. Roll with it. Enjoy the times that the tree touches heaven and make meaning of this whole thing. What an amazing recipe.

It really is. It reminds me of this quote from Carl Jung. It says, no tree can reach to heaven until its roots touched hell.

I was feeling that when I was.

Sharing that with you. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

So we've, you've shared so much and, and obviously it's on the screen again. Joshtren.com forward/undundance. The code is 500 bucks off. You just use the code, Josh. So that's the starting place.

Yeah.

But to enjoy the journey and maybe just to go 30,000ft in a plane of mystery, flying above this entire journey, for you to even be here today and sit here today with me, is there anything that you feel we missed? What do we miss when it comes to the conversation of abundance and how to actually authentically embody it for ourselves, the individuated self? What did we miss?

I mean, there's, there's, we didn't miss. I don't know if we missed anything. I mean, there's, there's so much to, to elaborate on, but ultimately it's recognizing that, starting to ask the question, who are you? Why are you here? What do you want? And what does abundance mean to you? And if you feel called to that, you know, you can come on this journey with me where I walk you through. Essentially, I've developed a six step process to finding your competitive process to being successful in anything, which is first, like we talked about, define your competitive edge. Know what makes you great. Know what skills, gifts and talents you have, whether or not it's investing or being a parent or taking care of yourself. Like, what is your edge? What is even your competitive edge of a diet? What diet works best for you? Not because there's a diet book you read, because you've actually explored it. Yeah, right. Then you want to know how to use your units of investing. Once we have a competitive edge in business, like once we know, once I know that I can use the weather to find opportunities in trading, Right. I need to know how big of an opportunity is it in that moment? How big of an edge do I have in that moment? If I'm counting cards at the casino and I'm playing blackjack, let's say, and I know that I have a large edge because I'm counting cards and I know that the Cards are stacked in my favor, I'll bet larger. And if I think I have a small edge because I've been counting cards and I think that the cards are not stacked me to have a good hand versus the dealer, I'll bet real small. The same thing has to be done in our investing and in our life. In our life, it's money, energy, resources, time, presence, love, all these things, how, how we share them and how we expend them and using them in the places that are in alignment with our competitive edge. Then we have to have systems of evaluation to be able to evaluate how is it working, how is our diet working, Are we losing weight? Are we, you know, how's our sex drive, what are our stools look like, you know, what's our recovery time, are we making money? What's the return on investment of all these different ways, then we gotta begin to literally stalk ourself and move into that like, right brain kind of intuitive capacity where we pay attention to our body, we pay attention to our dreaming, we work with our edges, we look at what's over that side of the cliff and what we can grow into. We have to learn from our losses and use and recognize that anyone who's ever been great in business or in life has had a ton of losses. Paul Tudor Jones would tell me that blowing up as a trader, having a huge blow up is a necessary stop in becoming a great trader because you now have this felt sense of what never to do again and how to be a good risk manager. And the same things are in life. And then ultimately we learn detachment where we learn to just trust this process and let it flow through us. And so like there's all of these different things that I take people through. I also have another side of the course which is the eight steps to mastery where all the different things I learned from the Paul checks to the yoga to the shamanisms, all these different techniques, eight different steps to develop flow states and really tap into some of these dreamlike natures of business and your life. And you know, I put it, package it into this kind of transformational course and take people through these, these amazing group calls that actually been quite fascinating to me because I think as good as the course is actually getting together in community and sharing with people that are enjoying this same kind of vision and they're asking the same kinds of questions has been so transformational, not only for me, but for the students. And so I really enjoy the fact that if you sign up for this course, you now belong to this Abundance Archetype community, where we have twice a week, zoom calls, where we share ideas, I bring in all sorts of stuff, and we bring in guest speakers. And actually, that's been the most enjoyable part for me is really getting to sit with all of these interesting people.

Yeah, I can imagine that there's so much excitement about the road ahead. And look, we're in a time where the future is uncertain, and it's always been uncertain, actually. It's just sometimes the future is more. More uncertain than others. And I don't know if you've read the Fourth Turning or you have. And so, you know, I feel like we're approaching 4 or maybe we're in it right now stage.

Oh, I think we're in a winner for sure, right?

Yeah, we're definitely there. And so the best thing that we can do is, you know, put ourselves in communion community and allow ourselves to warm each other with wisdom and with knowledge and with connection and honestly, with vulnerability. I've said some shit on this podcast today that I did not plan on sharing, but I went for it because, first of all, it feels relieving to do so. So it's selfish and it's selfless because I know that there's another human being that has witnessed what I've shared, and it probably made them feel permission to share it themselves. And I think that's maybe what you feel in your community, this removal of shame and guilt when it comes to the subject of money. Money is such a wound for so many people.

Yeah.

And that's my intention with this podcast. So whether y' all are watching this for the third time or the second time, or whether you're feeling this for the first time, go out into your life and create abundance, whether it's with Jason or not, and make that the focal point, because then all of our shit's going to come up once we start focusing on abundance anyways. Right. I'm sure you've seen this play out time and time again. So as we say goodbye, man, you know, we. We covered so much ground. And I think about what fuels me that question. When I was a little boy, like, how do we live our life? Well, the question I have for you is, how do you live your life? Well, what does wellness actually mean to you? How do you define wellness? What is wellness embodied for you in your life?

I mean, honestly, it's as simple as getting back to those impulses that I talked about. It's that rhythm and that magic. When I wake up each day and I have rhythm and Ritual and I can feel the pulse of my own heart and feel the pulse of the earth and I'm waking up with the sun and I'm going to sleep with the sun and you know, having rituals around my water and movement and with my family and praying to my food. I'm tapping into that same rhythm and I wake up and I find those moments of awe and reverence and child's like mine and curiosity that were there with me my whole life that is personally for me how I feel. Well and so it's really finding that for you, not you but the listeners is for all of us what is wellness to us? And asking these questions what does abundance mean to me? Why is it so easy for me to feel abundant? How do I feel abundant? What is wellness to me and not why can't I ever be abundant. It start to open up the question of the possibilities of how do I do this and what does this mean to me? Not what has been told to me. This abundance archetype. In some ways it is a divine principle. It's one of the 99 names of, of God in the Islamic tradition. And one of them is abundance. That we naturally have this capability, you know, and in fact if you just look at nature, nature is naturally abundant, is she not?

Of course.

When you're in Covid and everyone's locked in their house, you have all these reports of like Beijing like has like perfect air and like dolphins and wolves are coming back and all these things are like, you know, who knows if how much of this is true or not. But it seemed as if like nature was just like you could feel it, it was like palpable that like as uncomfortable it was to be like locked in the house. Like nature was getting a deserved vacation in some way, right? Like it doesn't take long for these places to just completely repopulate and it seems like we have enough. It's just not distributed properly, right? And so the whole purpose of the, of rituals and rhythm and you know, why, why to do this stuff, why do, why do I wake up? Why do I get in touch with the water and the sun and all these different things and move my body? It's because when I can get in harmony and resonance and reciprocity with nature, I become abundant like she is naturally. Because now I am acting like her. I'm not taking too much, I'm not giving too little. I have the natural, I'm in tune with the natural cycles that are moving through her. She is naturally abundant and I'm sitting There doing this ritual so that I could become like that and then bring that into my life, and that's how I feel.

Well, bomb drop, thank you for coming on the show. Let's go smoke a bag. And the beautiful volcano that you gifted to me. Thank you so much, man. You literally have an. A presence and an eminence of abundance. And it's interesting. You know, I will share as we say goodbye. I. I was attracted to learning from you for my own pursuits when it came to money. Yeah, I was. And now that I've gone through some of the program and sitting here talking with you and just feeling you as a soul, I'm super grateful that I did because I realized that, yes, that's important. And what's really important is the way that I show up for my family, the way that I show up for myself. That's where true abundance comes from. And I just got, like chills in my hands saying that because for so long in my life, it was just about how much money can I make and I don't want to be like my father and I don't want to be poor. My come from was actually away from instead of towards abundance.

Yeah.

So thank you, man, for cracking that open. Me so good. Love you too, brother. All right, let's go smoke a bag. Until we see you again, we're both wishing you and wellness. Hey, thanks for watching this video. If you love this video, hit subscribe. That way you'll be automatically notified when new videos come out, new episodes. And also share this video with a friend. If you loved it, they're going to love it too. Check out some of the videos on this screen that are perfectly curated based on the video you just saw. Make sure you follow me and I'll see you in the next video.